The Pete Quiñones Show - Pete on Benjamin Boyce's Channel

Episode Date: February 2, 2025

105 MinutesPG-13Popular YouTuber Benjamin Boyce asked Pete to come on his show. They ended up talking about the Spirit of the Age.Benjamin's ChannelPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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With vouchers from Trump Dunebag. Search Trump Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunebiog, Kush Faragea. How's your work going? Good, good, busy. I'm backed up on episodes now. I normally drop like my interview episodes three times a week, and I think I'm going to have to drop a few extra

because I like hammered a bunch in like a short space of time. And I got people going, so what are you going to drop that? And I'm like, all right, I think I got ready. Yeah. Just sit. I sit on him. Then I can take a break. What I'm out of questions to ask. Just kick it down the road. Well, when I'm out of questions to ask, what I do is I, um, Bloviate.

Find someone new. Oh, really? Yeah, yeah. When I find some, find, find someone new to interview. So then it's a whole set of questions. Um, like I love Judge Napolitano's show. I like getting updates on, um, You know, what the intelligence community, what quote unquote, former intelligence community says about, is saying about world affairs. But he has this habit of having like five people on in one day and asking them the same question over and over again and playing the same clip over and over again for them to comment on. And I'm like, yeah, I think, I think it's all going to be pretty similar.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. How do I pronounce your last name? I've only ever read it.

It's Quignanus. Cioness. So it's like a K, really it starts with a K, like a K sound. Heen, yoness. My brother won't pronounce it the proper way. He just pronounces it phonetically because he's boring. Oh, he's the boring brother. You got all the spice.

Genetically speaking. Yeah, he's the one who, like, is always, had like the regular job where, you know, where I'm always, I was always trying to find stuff that would keep me interested more than pay the bills. I kind of want to do, I don't know where you want to go with this interview, and I'm always open to just following where the conversation goes. I believe in the conversation for its own sake, but I wanted to get a little bit contextual. I was just thinking about that this morning.

It's like, where did I come from? Like, I remember being 19 and being really interested in ideas. and I'm in a totally different spot now, you know, 25 years later or whatever. Some people don't like getting into biography, but at the same time, biography kind of helps contextualize belief. I can do biography. I'll just censor out stuff that I don't want public. Okay. I'd have the greatest upbringing, even though I was, you know, at a classical education,

and it just wasn't the greatest upbringing. Okay. Did you, well, did you move around a lot growing up? No, no, it was all in one place. Okay, yeah. Religious later or earlier? I grew up in the Catholic Church. Altra boy, Catholic school, went to a Catholic high school, graduated Catholic high school,

and then did as most post-Vatican II Catholic. Catholics do fell away from the church and had to find my way all the way back through a Protestant phase. And, yeah. What attracted you to Protestantism? Were you just kind of bereft in life and wanted more religion? No, I just got to a place where there were something missing. I knew there were something missing. Yeah.

Yeah. Did I ever try Protestant? I went to Protestantism. I went to Protestant seminary for a while and I just, yeah, I pretty much talk myself. Seminary life. My dad, my dad went to seminary later in life too and became a Southern Baptist minister. And his, one of the things he said when I started taking classes in seminary was that the hardest thing for most people to do when they go to seminary is to come out with their faith. Yeah. Why do you think that is? because you learn things that you're supposed to hide from the congregation.

Like we really don't know where a lot of the scriptures came from and things like that. Like sexual criticism class was hilarious because I'm sitting there and I'm trying to be as open mind as possible. And there are these people behind me who I can hear, this is scary. It was shaking their faith and everything. And I'm just like, well, I'm just. I'm here to learn, you know, so. And I can, I can deal with, uh, with attacks on, on the faith, but, you know, I just didn't like, I didn't like the fact that I went to a church that I really like the people,

but had like two church splits in like two years, it's been in two years. I was like, this doesn't sound, this doesn't sound that great. Yeah. It sounds like, uh, the so-called culture war. People are always like coming together and then splitting apart after two or three months or new world event splits the lines on correct belief or well when you're when your initial premise was protesting against something and splitting off from a group then unless you can find some some solid ground that's just going to keep happening my friend josh says uh yeah he became a catholic

because he just couldn't he said it the protest just continued until it was splintering and splintering and mentoring and well, what, are we a church body or are, or do we hate each other? Are we the body of Christ or do we hate each other? Yeah. Because one person believes in like a visual return of Christ and the other person believes that it, you know, you won't be able to see it because, you know, this is a globe and he's going to appear on one side and you won't be able to see it on this side and everything. And I've heard, I've heard pastors be like, well, you know, now that we have the internet, technically we can all see it. And I'm like, just Anusha, you're killing me.

I think it's the problem of, some people call it propositional understanding. It's like when we have, when we formulate the world in such a way where it's discussable, it can also turn into something that we argue about. And then it becomes something we agree or disagree. And then our identity gets wrapped up. in this one fraction of human experience called belief or knowledge or nosis or however you frame that. The way I looked at it was going back to Catholicism just felt right. It felt like I was home. It's what my dad's side of the family way back, not way back. I mean, just a couple generations ago,

my mom's side of the family, my mom Catholic, she grew up in the Catholic church and all the way back and her family. So, I mean, and another thing is, it's, it's nice to be a part of a group. I have this obsession where whenever I embrace something,

I need to read everything about it and learn everything about it. And one thing I promised myself when I returned to the Catholic Church was I was not going to become a Catholic expert. I was just going to be one of those people who goes to, goes to Mass,

goes to, reconciliation takes the Eucharist and lives a very simple faith-filled life instead of what I did when I got into Protestantism where it was like, well, I'm going to, there's a local, there's a nice conservative local seminary. I'm going to go find out everything that I can. And yeah, it's just like, I can only concentrate on so many things. Yeah. So then what is the role of faith? If it's not something that you're learning about or engaging with it as a subject of study, what then does faith, how does faith operate in your life?

Well, I think the way it works is I don't mind learning new things about it. And you do just about, by osmosis, people, or people just talk about, you'll see conversations and I'll find out something new. I'll pick up the catechism every once in a while turn to someplace. I don't know that I haven't read before and learn something new, but it's not something where I'm going to like every, I'm going to say, okay, this is, in these next 365 days, I'm going to read through the catechism and I'm going to, and then the next 365. No, it's just going to be something

that is, I'll pick it up, I'll learn more as I go along, but I don't need to be an expert on everything. And I think that that's a problem I've had in the past is I just have to be an expert on everything that I explore. And, you know, that's one of the problems I have, what Protestantism is that, you know, I say this and even close friends of mine who are Protestants get mad. But, you know, it's like basically if you're a Protestant, you can pretty much interpret the Bible any way you want.

And when you say that, people are like, no, there's only one way to interpret it. It just says one thing. Well, no. No, I mean, obviously people can interpret. people are interpreting it different ways. And if you can just go and there's a space open next to the circle K in town, then anyone can call themselves a pastor and anyone can open up a church. And it's like, okay, so what, so basically you're, if you decide you want to go to that church,

now you've positioned yourself with this self-taught, self, you know, female. lesbian pastor well okay what's your argument what's the argument against that if you're a protestant what's the argument against that she read the bible in a certain way she read the bible and she sees that she can be a pastor and she can be gay and be christian okay so who says not the bible well no she's reading that bible no i'm i'm going off a two thousand years of tradition now. So, I'll, yeah. Yeah.

One problem or source of tension and discussions of politics, especially once you get to a certain scale, which is what we're facing. You can't get away from the problem of scale. How do you deal with eight billion people? How do you deal with millions of people? If you go down to just a state, you're still talking about American state. You're still talking about millions of people. How do you govern people in one aspect of this tug of war that we see explicitly on the left and then conservatives try to shy away from it.

And there's a growing will and awareness on the right that decisions need to be made to tell people how to live. You're governing people is to tell them how to live. And who makes that decision and who sculpts that? And it eventually comes back to the same question with religion and the question of having a society that doesn't have a uniform religion. Like who tells other people what to believe? Who tells other people what to do or not do? Like who's the decider? Who's the executive of behavior?

I'm wondering how you wrestle with that. And I'm curious about your political transformation from a libertarian to a post-libertarian or wherever you're at right now. Well, your question basically centers around one word, and that's hierarchy. Do people believe in hierarchy? And liberalism, classical liberalism, whatever you want to call it, there tends to be a rejection of that. And a rejection of it politically, or a rejection of it, let's face it, classical liberalism wasn't conceived by Catholics or Orthodox people. It was conceived by Protestants. For better for worse, I mean, I'm not blaming them. This is what they, the idea that they came up with. So, you know, when I look back

in history, so look back to my family, I have two sides of my family. One side is from the Poland, Hungarian area that section down there that came to be known as Galicia. That's where both sides my my mom's family came from they came to the united states at my my my great-grandparents literally came to the united states and met each other and they were both from one town over from each other that that's what that's what happens when people come to a country and their immigrants know to go to one section like western pennsylvania you know so they can they can meet and they can continue um and be be around people that they actually know and you know my dad's side of the family is is through Puerto Rico to the Canary Islands to Spain.

And what I look at is, so one of the things I like to talk about a lot is the Muslim conquest of Spain, 7-11 AD, and the reconquista that took basically 700, almost 775 years to take the country back. Now, most people would have given up. most people would have been like, okay, we're, we're part of a caliphate now. And we should probably convert to Islam and become like these people. They would offer people who converted to Islam didn't have to pay taxes, but most of the time, which is interesting.

And, but no, they decided that they were going to take it, take the country back. Some years, they'd get a mile back. Some years they'd get two. inches back. I mean, they just basically decided, oh, why did they do this? Because they were Catholics. Because they were, they had something uncommon. They had something that they, they had an identity that they were willing to unite around and, and fight for. And one of the problems with America is, is that America doesn't have a unifying principle at one point. had a unifying identity at one point,

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Visit drinkaware. com. And it's changed. And now you don't really know, when you ask somebody what an American is, even say, you know, someone MAGA, someone who's conservative, someone who calls himself America first.

Their idea, yeah, I had someone contact me and say, you know, I'm a conservative. I said, you know, said, I said, okay, so what does conservative mean? And they said, well, we want to return. I want to return to the values of the founding fathers. And I said, okay, so you want only white men to vote and only landowners. Women can't vote.

Pretty much all Protestant. And Catholics are on the outside. They're not being too, you know. Persecuted, yeah. He persecuted. Yeah. and is that what you want and the person said well no no that's not what you know that's not what i want i want it all i said okay so you want you want 1964 and 1965 you want the civil rights act

you want to be you want what the country became after that and i mean that's for better or for worse that's what being an american that's what the america was founded upon it was founded upon a supremacist kind of idea. And people just don't want to deal with that because of the post-war consensus after World War II, which led into things like Shelley v. Kramer, Brown v. Board of Education, Civil Rights Act of 64, a voting right, I think it's voting rights act of 65, things like that. And basically what happened was, and I think there's a lot of people out there who've done a lot better work on this than I have, that basically,

the Constitution became supplanted by the Civil Rights Act because now you don't have a freedom of association. And Shelley B. Kramer did that more so than where they basically said you can't preclude someone from living in a community based upon their identity. And, you know, it's not something that it's not something that people had a problem with up until that time. People self-segregated pretty well. You know, I grew up in New York City. I grew up in the Bronx and I'm pretty well versed on New York City's history. And New York City used to not only have like Chinatown and Little Italy, but they had like, they had a block where like southern Germans were.

And then a block over, there were people who were from West Germany, you know, who were from a Western end of Germany, not what, not the Bundes Republic, but the Western areas of Germany. And it almost seemed like all of a sudden laws were being passed to force integrate, to force integrate people and to make them not segregate. And what's funny is if you go to New York, there's still a lot of self-segregation. There's still a lot of default segregation.

But yeah, I think that that's probably, I think that's probably one of the things that the country was founded upon, which we lost was freedom of association. If you say you don't want to associate with a certain person or a certain group now, well, that's anathema, Because we've moved beyond that.

We're, you know, we live in a, we're, we're enlightened. And, you know, if you don't want to live, you know, I live, I live in the rural south. Blacks everywhere. I mean, it just is what it is. But even here, we self-segregate. You know, they live in one specific part of town and usually there's, and. And. But if you see.

say that that's, if I were to say, well, you know, and I think that's great about my town. Well, that's, that's seen as problematic. That seems as, well, no, you can't have liberty if you are not free to not only associate with people, but disassociate from some people. And going back to the heretic, where you started this with how, well, it's about community. It's about people you trust you want people I want people to be in charge if I'm not going to be in charge which I don't really want to sounds like work I want someone to be in charge that is shares my values that speaks the same kind of language speaks the same language that I do sounds like I do when I say speaks the same language I'm talking about we agree we agree on things as soon as you

start bringing in people as soon as you force integrate people who have, you know, what my friend Cryptos calls first and second order differences. Like, first order would be these are like concrete things that we believe in. This is like where our basis. This is where our foundation is. Second order is like, well, you know, it's like, how are we going to build this road? How are we going to fund this road? who's going to do that.

First order is people who you, it is like the, you know, a Bible Belt, um, Southerner, Protestant Baptist and a, you know,

someone who works at C, someone who works at MSNBC living next to each other. Well, how do they, their foundation doesn't, there's nothing in common with their foundation. Of course they're going to clash. And,

you know, we're forced. you know, somebody who lives 3,000 miles away from where I do who doesn't share any of my values or as I used to say it, you know, you know, Levi who lives in Utah and is a Mormon

and then you have Jesse who is a you know, a hardcore progressive who lives in New York City. One of either of their votes can affect each other's lives. How, what happens politically, policy, things like that, that's unfair to both of them. It's unfair. They shouldn't have to,

one shouldn't have to have an effect on the way the other one lives because they're two completely different cultures. And when cultures clash, you'd get, you get what we've had here for, I mean, I wouldn't say 80 years. I wouldn't say World War II, but not far after, you know, I would say after the 60s where you had a math. massive upheaval in the culture. Well, at some point America was ruled by people who could keep the peace between all these different groups. And if you look at a city like New York, you had a governing class.

You had a gentry or an elite that was able to articulate the peace between these different groups to a certain extent. Right. So, and then if you look at someplace like Singapore that has a lot of different ethnicities, but still is uniformly articulated, peacefully in order to be productive, it's not out of the realm of possibility that human beings can get along. Many societies have been vectors of many different ethnicities throughout history. And somehow there's a ruling elite that keeps the peace without imposing their values too much

on any given or, yeah, without infringing too much on the values of the people for whom they are the patrons. And if the American gentry or the American elite was able to maintain its own culture without pushing that culture on other people, it seems like we could get along a lot better. When you have something like wokeness where the explicit patronage network of dividing people by the, you know, oppressed, oppresses, and then elevating one and denigrating the other in order to maintain power, that is a weak form of power. It's not, you're no longer articulating peace as the elite group. I bring that up just to say that I don't know how we go forward with racial awareness, let's say, without imposing more chaos on the town. uprooting people, let's just say your town is half black or quarter black, quarter Latino, half white or something like that, there's got to be a way for those groups to get along and to be

ruled without them having to be segregated by force by the state. Right. As long as the ruling class is able to articulate the peace between those groups, it should be fine. Isn't that ideal unless we just kind of rejigger our society and then you're uprooting people and then you're trashing their own histories? Sure, and I think that forced the multiculturalism is just as, just as much of a detriment upon the host culture as it is on the visiting culture. There's a visiting culture, well, some would say the invading culture,

I'll be nice and say the visiting culture. The visiting culture is, eventually there's a stripped away too. Their identity is stripped away too. So you mentioned Singapore. And I've, yeah, that's another one of my, I've mentioned Singapore all the time too. One of the reasons I mention Singapore all the time is because they have a multicultural Asian population. And, you know, most people, I think most people watching this probably know that Asians are much more racist against each other than we, any racism we've had in this country. like ever um but also what do they have there they have corporal punishment and they they have a very

harsh rule of law spitting gum on the street you will get you will get thrown in jail or caned um you you're talking about a culture where it seems like the peace may be kept between a multi-rache a multicultural society where people really don't like each other And it's kept, part of it may be kept by force. Now we also know that like in Japan, people are very, very polite. You know, I have a friend who lives in Japan for a very long time and he like, he left an iPad in the subway station once and like went back four hours later and it was still there. You know, so that's a different culture than what we're used to.

But you're, what you're describing is something that I've talked about here. talk about for here is to me the only way the multiculturalism in this country could work in the areas where it is multicultural is you basically have to have a standing army.

So I grew up in New York City. When I was growing up in New York City, we had 2,000 murders a day. Murders a year. In New York City, in the year, yeah, 2,000 murders a day. It's not Rwanda.

Right now. Not quite, not quite Haiti. But no, we had 2,000 murders a year. I mean, that's insanity. I think the top year when I was growing up was like 2,600. What decade were you growing up in? This is late 70s early,

late 70s into the 80s, into the early 90s. How did they clean up New York? Okay, well, one of the ways they did it was they made it too expensive. They made it so expensive that a lot of people couldn't live there, so they had to leave. Was that you think that, are you implying that that was intentional or was that just kind of a market force?

I think it just, it was a market force at the time. Okay. But when Giuliani came into power in New York, he did stop and frisk, which as a libertarian I would always make fun of. And now I'm like, eh. But he also put, I remember going to New York in 2000. And no, it was like 1999. So it's before 9-11. And this was during Christmas.

And there was every other corner on like Fifth Avenue, there was two police. There was two police officers. So basically what they did was they hired an army. I think, I don't know what it is now since 2020 when a lot of police are retired. And in like 2019, there was like 44. thousand police in New York City. You know, that's, that's, what,

22 times more than the population of the town I live in? Yeah. So that's like, you're talking about, you're talking about an army. And that seemed to, you know, if you show, you have a show of force,

it doesn't even have to be, if you have 44,000 police, not, most of them are probably not going to be, you know, elite, tactical operators who can start taking down people if they pull out a rifle and start shooting. Famously, there was a shooting at the Empire State Building in, I think it was 2011.

And somebody jumped out of a car, shot somebody. The police chased after him, stopped them, caught up to him a couple blocks later, and unloaded, I think it was 26 rounds on him and hit him with two. It hit nine bystanders. And I don't believe he was shooting back. And so it just basically tells you the, like down here, if one, and then we have like eight cops in this town. If one of them has to shoot, they're probably going to be center mass on every shot.

I mean, that's all these guys do, you know. They're former military. They're, you know, they're, this is what, this is their job and they take it seriously. And so when I look at when we talk about Singapore and we talk about order and we talk about multicultural societies, I think they're, what you're talking about is you're going to have to have some kind of what most people would describe as authoritarianism, which would be a threat if you step out of line. And I think, you know, I think we used to have that in this country. And I think it was basically people were unleashed. People were allowed to, quote unquote, vigilantes, do vigilante activities, things like that. When people stepped out of line, we had fights between.

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it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit optionscard.i today. On the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee a visit filled with festivity. experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse. Enjoy seven floors of interactive exhibitions and finish your visit with breathtaking views of Dublin City from the home of Guinness.

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where everything was about the managers that could be handled on their own. But with that, it was all taken up, the post-war consensus really just. What do you mean by post-war consensus? So after World War II, it seems like it was decided that, as my friend Thomas says, being too right-wing is criminal. And right-wing would be associated with having an opinion on other races, except white,

you're pretty free to have opinions on the white race. That's not a problem. Let's see. well, I think about the book, the authoritarian personality by Adorno and the Frankfurt School. What do they talk about? They said,

people who go to, people are too religious, people who are too concentrated, to have too many kids, people who just basically would classically how the values that this country was founded upon. And those have been criminalized.

And I'm not talking about if you go to church, you're going to go, you're going to go to jail. No, people look upon you differently. They look upon you, like, suspiciously. Like, you, like, well, the whole point of the authoritarian personality was to come up with the F scale, which was you take this test and it'll tell you how apt you are to be a fascist towards fascism. And what was, you know, the question of what was fascism? that didn't even matter to the people who were writing this. They just basically said,

what looks like traditional families need to be destroyed. And they set out on doing that and basically tearing down every custom and cultural the cultural heritage that built the country. And the post-war consensus is basically,

that, you know, liberalism is the way forward. The people who are in charge, they know better. We, you know, listen. The whole James Burnham's managerial revolution. And yeah, and you see that. You, anyone who talks about, you know, hey, you know, maybe black people would be better off living around black people. Maybe they, maybe we should, or here's it.

an easier one. Maybe we need to cut off funding. Maybe we we need to, people need to be able to sink or swim on their own. Well, no, no, because of white, because of white history, these people are downtrodden. It's your fault that they can't get, get by where, you know, we have over 50 years now of money flowing into certain communities, and it doesn't seem to, it seems to, it seems to a many things worse. I think in the late 50s, Thomas Sol said that the divorce rate in white families was higher than in black families. So what happened? I mean, this post-war consensus, it just basically said, basically is liberalism. It was Francis Fukuyama in the 1990s saying that, you know, history, you know, end of history is here. It's all liberalism from here on now. Well, liberalism seems to be

coming crashing to the ground and we're recording this on January 28th. Trump has been in office for eight days and Trump is eight days of being the most anti-liberal president since Nixon. Anti-liberal or anti-FDR anti-statist? I would consider that to do the same thing. Okay. Oh, yeah, well, well, let me status. Well, yeah, let's call anti-F, let's call anti-post-wif.

consensus. Okay. It's the anti, anti, you know, you can also call like the New Deal regime or what did he, he called it the other day. He referred to it as the New Deal.

Is he, did he literally, really? So he's, he's calling it out. He referred to the, the New Deal something. I can't,

I retweeted it. So, yeah. So it looks like he's seeking to, dismantle all of this and it's probably the biggest attack on the post-war consensus this this this post-war regime that we've had and it's working and I think the reason it's working is people want it people people people are that's what they elected him to do yeah and I think that there are even people in power you can see it with the tech

elites the way they've changed and they want to see their a lot lot of them are behind him now. And you're really not seeing a lot of pushback. I mean, look, Pete Hagseth got, was confirmed 50 to 50 in advance had to come in. But, you know, somebody like, somebody like Besson, he, he was almost, he's talking about, like, ending the, ending the IRS. Yeah. I mean, he's talking about Bitcoin. You know, so it's like, okay.

something is happening here and it looks like he has the mandate to start dismantling what has been built since the New Deal, since the New Deal regime was in, well that bring, but FDR is 15 years. That brings into question, it's one thing to dismantle that which has persisted for 50, 80 years, but what are people left with? What is the identity, what is the American identity post FDR?

what happens to all those disaffected government employees? Maybe they'll get like Yarvin either prophesied or suggested. You just give them enough money to go buy a house on a lake and write their novels. Don't kill them. You don't persecute them. You just send them out to pasture. So they won't be a problem. But there's still a conception of what we are as a country after dismantling what came to a head,

you know, started with FDR. came to a head with Biden. Biden was the perfect representative of that entire system. Headless, sclerotic mumbling. Nobody's in control of anything. We're just going to promote identity, promote identity, sniff little children because we're devouring your children. We're literally devouring the next generation in order to afford all this stuff. So it came to ahead. Trump, just a side note, it might be some sort of mandate from heaven that he was, shot at and not got shot because I think that steeled, like it hardened the entire, had 2020 not happen, I don't think he would have had the will and the force and just complete an utter

mandate to do what he's doing. I don't know how far he's going to do it. But so if he goes after, he takes part the IRS, he kicks all the illegals out, starts with the worst of the worst, and then kind of increases it from there. He, I heard that he cut off federal funds. funding to schools today. So that's going to do a chain reaction with this bloated bureaucratic mechanism called colleges, higher education. But what is going to be left in the rubble? So there's going to be the rubble of the deep state. Like, do you have any opinions or thoughts or intuitions about like how that really does unfold? Like, what are we going to be left with? What is the American identity post-Trump? And don't we need some sort of story there?

to keep us together. Sure, yeah, you always need a narrative. You always need a narrative, a, what is, what is they call it, a load-bearing myth? Yeah, I think that's what they call it. Yeah, you need a myth. So what happens after Make America right again? Well, let's start with, I disagree with Yard in that. I think that there has to be like one or two people that you make an example of.

And I'm talking about you put them on trial and you put them in jail. I don't know who that is. I mean, I would immediately say someone like Fauci, someone like Mark Millie, somebody who was way up in the food chain, someone whose name people knows. Because you don't want people to want to, you want people to think twice about doing it in the future. But you do, you know, get rid of some of these people. I mean, you can fire them all, pay them, give them a year, severance, something like that. It's perfectly fun.

I don't think you have to give them, like, you know, like the, former DDR people got, like, got pensions or anything. I don't know. At this point, I don't know that we can pay for that. So you can give them a year. That's fine. They'll have time. A lot of them have been working from home and have two jobs anyway. That's come out.

So, you know, as long as they didn't quit their other job, they'll still have an income coming in. But yeah, I guess the question is, is if you are dismantling all of this, if you're saying, okay, we're going to go after this managerial regime, we're going to go after the unelected officials who are always there, who are the ones who, you know, can. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November.

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you always have a choice not to do that. You don't know your history. And you don't know people. But yeah, I think that's that's an issue is right now we're eight days in and we see a lot being torn down. I mean, he's doing, you have to admit, he's doing way more than you thought he was going to damn right. I mean, to me, if he just pardoned the J6 prisoners, that would be like enough.

If he shut the, if he just pardoned the J6 prisoners and shut the water. Yeah, that'd be enough. That, that would be, I mean,

but he's really, it seems like the people around him were ready for this. I mean, he had, he was flying Ospre. I saw a video of Ospreys being flown over the southern border.

Yeah. I talked to a friend of mine who's in, was in the military and knows these. He said, you don't get those things out of, you don't get those things off to ground without like two weeks planning at least. Usually it's a month. So there were things that were happening, things in motion before he even took office. And we know that because, I mean, he sent, he sent, what's his name? I can't remember the guy's name.

Whitkoff to Israel to, you know, tell him, hey, stop, you know, make the deal for the hostages. We did that before he even took office. So he's doing all this stuff. Is he going to completely tear down the managerial regime that has been a leviathan since the 1930s? I don't know. It's going to be really difficult. So you have to have some way to push it forward. You have to have some way that after the four years is over.

You also have to have the will to do it. You have to have the will to keep it going for four years. And then you're going to have to find a way to sell what this new thing is. Yeah, yeah. And I think Trump is the perfect guy to do that because he's the ultimate salesman. Yeah. There are people who are always going to hate him no matter what. A friend of mine contacted me the other day.

He works through some federal contracts and everything. and his neighbor is, you know, typical, progressive, liberal, but works for the government, has been working for home and says, I'm not returning to work. I don't want to go to, I don't want to work anywhere from home, and I don't want to go into an office where I'm going to have to look at his face on the wall. Yeah. So you have people who are just going. Especially that photo of that face, staring down.

It's so good. It's so good. It's so perfect. Because if you put that in every government office, oh, who's going to be able to look at it? at that every day. You know, if you hate him, if you think he's, you know, Hitler, literally Hitler, how are you going to be able to look at him every day? But, yeah, it's just, if you're going to continue this dismantling, which, I mean, I think if you had the will to do it, you could do it in a couple months, but I don't know that anyone has the will to do that. But, you know,

if it takes a while, well, you're going to have to pass this on to somebody else. And you're going to have to find that narrative. I think he can find the narrative. I think he can sell it to the people. If Washington is a ghost town and, you know, Cash Patel is turning the FBI building into a museum to the deep state, I think there are enough people who are going to celebrate that. Really, all he has to do is come up with a name, whatever it is.

But, you know, go. Well, it's just, it's a really big problem. Well, you have the boomer generation going out now. So they have, what, another 25 years in power? They're just going to hold on to the last. And I was being a little facetious there. But, you know, but their narrative is based on America, the righteous, the victors of World War II, the protector of the global order. We make sure that all the shipping lanes are clean.

But if America completely withdrawals from that, that's the whole story. But you saw a few months ago when Daryl Cooper went on to Tucker Carlson's podcast. And Tucker spoke a big game about Daryl. And Daryl just did a little pot shot, facetious pot shot against Churchill, against this myth, this founding myth that we are going to protect the world from any further Holocaust. And we are the righteous ones. and we are the leaders of the world, that narrative, I don't know if you can replace that narrative,

but that narrative's definitely long in the tooth and you need a narrative of similar proportions, maybe not good versus evil proportions, but similar weight, similar unifying power, in the wake of... Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area

and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. Dismantling that previous narrative. Like, how do you follow that narrative with another narrative? So that narrative is still people are really defensive about that narrative.

So you're going to have a hard time selling anything else or even attacking it, but it's kind of, it's devolving on its own. A lot of the things that were sticking points that led to 2020 and the apiosis or the zenith or the meridian of wokenness about the civil rights, about, you know, these values of diversity, equity, and including. conclusion, and equity could have been just equality, but it's still the same kind of post-war consensus. That whole narrative, like, what do we have that has the same sort of will? I mean, what is it, entrepreneurialism, individualism, do your own thingism, like, what is, what is it that electrifying narrative going to be that is going to take over from that post-war consensus, which is a really big, strong narrative. Right.

Well, and I think one of the things that Daryl did was he exposed how much people love their myths, how much they need them. I mean, so much so that, I mean, look how many people have discredited themselves using the term woke right. They had to create, the only, that term, that term, Lindsay came up with that term. I don't know if Lindsay actually came up with it, but he was using the term a couple years ago. It didn't catch on. And then it's like, oh, well, here's our shot.

Because progressives and liberals seek to tear down myths. You know, tear down the myth of the founding, all these myths. That means anyone who's trying to tear down a myth is just a liberal, it's just a leftist. They're just woke. Well, there are some myths that need to be torn down. I'll give you an easy one. over the past like 10 years, the myth of Reagan has really suffered,

has really suffered. A lot of people look back on Reagan now, and they'll talk about amnesty. The, what's the one, the 86 gun ban, which basically, it's made it so that machine guns now, if you want to own a machine gun,

you have to, it's like $25,000, you can't manufacture, new ones, things like that. So, but also just that Reagan, Reagan really didn't do anything to tear down the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union fell from its own weight. And once you realize that, once people started realizing that, it's like, so what did Reagan do, really? I mean, he gave amnesty to a lot of, a lot of people who were here illegally or people who

were here who, you know, hadn't done, hadn't gone through the process properly. And just a host of other things. And he also paved the way for, you know, for Clinton to come in there. And I don't know if he paved the way so much. I think Clinton was inevitable. Clinton was because when you have a, when you have a managerial regime, it's going, when you have a regime where it's just managers where you don't have, where there are no experts, you know, Thomas likes to talk about if Elon Musk was,

50 years ago, Elon Musk, 60 years ago, Elon must be working in the government. Government used to go out and find the smartest people, drag them in and say, we need you. But all of these, look at the smartest people in the world. What are they? They're all like tech entrepreneurs. They're all entrepreneurs. They, I think they saw in 1990, 1991, the writing on the wall was, this thing is going to hell. We just, we just defeated the Soviet Union.

and now they want to go into war in the Middle East, you know, the first Iraq invasion. And, you know, you have someone like Bill Clinton who is just, I mean, is a pig. You're basically bringing in somebody who's just... A hedonist? What do you mean? No, I've just, I mean, he's not a statesman. He, you know, George H.W. Bush was 10 times the statesman that he was. At least you looked at him and you thought, okay, this person knows.

something. And you're going to bring in some guy who was running drugs through Mina, Arkansas, it was running the drug trade through Mina Arkansas. It's like, come on, come on. And then you bring George W. Bush in there, and you're like, okay, now we have somebody who, um, we have a Bush. We have a legacy. And then what, a couple years in, he, they stopped giving him his drugs and he just, like a bumbling fool. Go look at, go look at the debates from 2000. And, look at the debates in 2004. And the debates in 2004, he can't even talk.

He's like stumbling over himself all the time. He's laughing. He's doing laugh tells and all sorts of weird things. But, yeah. So all the, all the, all the experts are the competent people, fled government, leaving government to continue on with. Just managers. Just people.

And the only thing, the only job of the managers is to perpetuate government. It's not to make government. better. It's not to make government more efficient. It is to just make sure that government keeps existing so they have jobs and they have some level of power. I mean, you know what happened. You've, you've seen in your personal life working wherever you've worked where somebody gets a little bit of power and they immediately start, it gets to their head and they start abusing it. And it's like, well, you know, I can do this now. So tearing down, I honestly believe in order to go forward in order for, We talked about, you know, what does the future look like?

We tear all this down and now we need a new myth. I don't think we can have a new myth until we destroy that old myth. I think the myth of World War II needs to be destroyed. Not that Hitler was a good guy, but that there were no good guys. That 60 million people died where when all people had to do was sit down at a table and talk. and that has to be destroyed. The myth that World War II had to happen, and that when it did happen, it was a good thing,

and that anybody really but Russia won, the Soviet Union won. I mean, what did we win? Responsibility for Europe, I guess. Yeah, responsibility for Europe, and then what, we give half of it away to, to communism, we give half of it away to the group that's going to be our enemy for the next 40, 41, 43 years? Okay, why that happened? And then you split Europe down the middle and you have

people living on one side and people living on another. And I've read books that were written back at the time over which side would it be better to live on? Would it be better to live on the side where there's communism, but Stalin isn't telling you you don't have to stop being a Hungarian. Or you live on the other side, you live on the other side of the wall where it's trying to turn you into this homogenous soup of post-liberal ideology, which is really weird. And the way you can tell this is whenever Germany has elections, look at how the former East Germany votes. They vote conservative.

they don't fall for the woke stuff. They don't, the woke stuff doesn't go there. And by conservative, you mean for Germany. More right wing, yeah, yeah. Immigrants out, this weaponized immigration that, you know, immigration into Europe is much different than the immigration that we have here. Immigration into Europe is, I see as a punishment. And where they just basically went into Africa and went into the Middle East

and took every former jihadist and emptied the mental institutions and said, go to Europe and punish the Europeans. For, I mean,

what? World War II, being white, I don't know. Yeah, it seems like it's, you know, Barbara Lerner Specter,

who was the head of the Padilla, I think that was the NGO. She moved to, she was an American Jew who moved to Sweden, and in, 2009, 2010, she was on record as saying Europe has to become multicultural or it won't survive. Oh, I'm sorry, is that a threat?

If Europe doesn't become multicultural, we're going to kill it? Or what does that mean? How is multi, how is a multicultural Europe good for Europe? Or is it only good for one group? Or is it only good for a certain people of a certain ideology? Yeah. I can see Trump's insofar as he goes as far as he wants to go or further than we expected him to go. And does it successfully?

You know, there's going to be some broken eggs, whatever that means. I can see Europe growing either testicles or a backbone. And I think that his more isolationist, I don't like that word, but more American. centric rather than globalist, as opposed to globalist, um, attitude, demeanor and activity will allow Europe to stand on its own to not be basically vassal states or, uh, you know, just the, the progenitors of American idealism, you know, like the, the, the cutting edge of what America wishes it was. Then they, they would have to kind of, their leadership, or at least the people will force the leadership to take responsibility and then they can kind of figure out

what they've been. Like, what is the European identity? I don't know. I'm the American who, like, we were fighting the Russians and then we won. Europe was just, they were half Russian and half American and then they were what? Like, what are they now? Like, a theme park? employers did you know you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1500 euro in gift cards annually completely tax-free and even better you can spread it over five different occasions now's the perfect time to try options card options card is Ireland's brand new multi-choice employee gift card packed with unique features that your staff will love it's simple to buy easy to manage and best of all there are no extra fees or hidden catches Visit options card.I.E. Today. On the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee, a visit filled with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer

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Well, I mean, you've got the European Union, which turns him into one thing. And I think it was interesting. I think Trump said yesterday that he's not going to deal with the European Union. He's going to deal with the individual states. Really? Yeah, which is what needs to happen. European Union is de facto open borders. I know people who are citizens of European Union.

They can go anywhere they want. They can travel. There is no. So, and then once you let people in and you give them residency, so you have, you know, the flooding across the, flooding across the Mediterranean from Africa, then you, they go in, they get their, the people who run, I mean, Germany seems to me, it's Germany suicidal. They If they want to The AFD party Which to me seems like

Like Maybe like American from 40 years ago I mean this isn't like a A party that would even be anything close to national socialism Or anything like that Where they just want to stop immigration They talk about getting rid of them Like making him illegal

Then they're run by a like the head of it is like a lesbian Yeah. Yeah. It's not like their main spokesman. The German government or the elites and the European Union are wanting to get rid of that party. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the European Union was what they wanted.

They wanted a united Europe under their ideology, where I would say when I look at Europe historically, you want Europe to be the separate countries under their each individual ideologies. But apparently people have looked back and said, well, over the last century, that didn't work out too good. I remember when the wall fell, when, was it November 9th, 1999, when you saw East Germans coming over, coming through the wall and they started breaking the wall down. And they started talking about German reunification. I remember my dad going, well, they better, they better start planting trees on the side of the Chamzile-Zes so the Germans can march in in the shade.

Like throwing this back in history, because if a united Germany is a threat to everyone. Yeah. Or, you know, look at Spain, after the Spanish Civil War, which may have been one of the most brutal wars in the history of mankind, when you study it closely,

you, it's hard to even talk about. about the the Franco after that war just said we're we're on our own here I mean and he he did business with NATO and everything but he basically said we are not going to have communism here we're not going to have leftism here and after he died they did everything I mean they they were people were assassinated to make that country what it is now and um Franco and um Franco and Prima de Rivera their body is taken out of the valley of the fallen and disinterred and

because we can't we can't celebrate franco and what he did why because he because he he was one of his country was one of two countries that really gave the left gave communism a black eye in the 20th century the first first instance of that no one no one even knows about because they hide it so well, the Finnish Civil War. But the Spanish Civil War, after that, look at, so frankly, so anyone who says Spain is for the Spanish, or says Germany's for Germans, or says Americans for America is for Americans, which I'll admit is a much more difficult definition. We have to, yeah, we have to talk, considering, you know, I would say, you know, Europeans, then those people are,

those people are called Nazis. Those people are called fascists. And I think countries are better off when, when their stock gets to decide what is happening inside of them rather than occupying forces after a world war that killed 60 to 80 million. Yeah. Possibly.

Those are high numbers, but, I mean, there's a possibility that it was that high. Darrell says 60s. Yeah. America for Americans. Again, we go back to a place where, I mean, just practically, you can have a ruling elite that's ethnically homogenous, and I wouldn't even go say America for,

if we go with America for Americans, we're saying probably wasps in charge and then a bunch of ethnic groups that kind of, fill in niches and then you can't rid America of the Native Americans and the blacks, you can't rid the blacks. They have every claim to anybody who's here any less than them. But there can be, how do I, it's really, it's really difficult to even talk about it racially, like some sort of caste system.

But it gets back to the flip side of the post-war consensus about liberals seeing any sort of non-globalist solidarity or any sort of non-propositional solidarity, any sort of genetic or ethnic solidarity, or even realism or even scientific discussions around the differences of race, as fascism. Like, it's not just tearing down the post-war consensus, but it's also ridding the world of this boogeyman of fascism. whatever it is, and really reconstructing whatever it was that is, well, the gravitational force of that black, dark,

evil thing of fascism, and really examining, well, what is it, what is it, what can it be? And is it necessarily genocidal? Is it necessarily conflict-oriented? Because we do have to, America can't go back to a, it never was ethnically,

were or, you know, homogenous. It was never homogenous. Then in the 50s, on a media level, it was kind of homogenized a little bit. But we are kind of children of the 90s in a way. We are kind of, we have to make some sort of peace. So, I mean, I guess I'm just trying to figure out, how do you have non-fascist fascism or how do you have a right that isn't, isn't whatever fascism means. And then you have, because you're going to have to get the liberals on board too, because the liberals are the inheritors of the elite systems. And you can't just destroy them.

They're going to still be the ones teaching children. You can restrain them to or put like, you know, gag orders around certain ideologies that they propagate, but they're still the smartest, you know, block of people on average. So they're still going to be taking over your managerial sector. And you can't get away from managerialism either because of just how many people there are that need to be managed. There still has to be some sort of managerial buffer.

So I just don't know, like, what is this fascism that what's wrong about it, what's real about it, and where do we go from here? And what part of that is ethnic and how do you deal with the fact that we are multi-ethnic, multicultural? I don't know how we got into fascism, but I mean, I'll run with it. I mean, all I see fascism is is nature, is how nature is run. People want to be around, people who they want to be around, and all groups are like that. And forcing them to integrate is, well, I think forcing them to integrate is not fair to any of them to either group or however many groups it is. And I think multiculturalism has, without an authoritarian bent, has proven to be a failure. I don't think it's a coincidence that every time Bernie Sanders talks about a country that he, you know,

thinks is like Norway or Sweden. Before they were weaponized with immigration from Africa and the Middle East, these were countries that were homogenous. a country like Iceland, a country like, I've been to Iceland, they have an app, a dating app there that's not for dating. It is to put your name and your potential

partner's name in so you can find out how related you are. Because that's what that island is. It's an island of 300,000 people who are basically all related to each other. That's why they, there's no murder right there.

When there is a murder, when there is a murder, it's usually somebody who's visiting there. It's also a different culture. It's a different people. It's a northern European people. And they're also a gigantic, let's call it a welfare state, kind of a welfare state. But also people don't have a tendency to be okay with welfare when it's for their family.

And that's one of the problems you have here is as soon as you start welfare here, Well, now you have what? 20 special interest groups vying for it, saying they deserve it more than another group. It should be more, I should get more of it here. This group over here, they're doing too well to have it. I mean, I just think that homogeneity is, you know, people who can embrace a culture,

then those are the people who that should be together. And if that's called fascism, I mean, So be it, whatever. Most people just wanted to associate fascism with... With... Employers. Rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card when with options card you can have both?

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So, you know, fascism is just basically a pejorative at this point for people, to hurl at people, to shut them down, to just shut anyone who wants to have a conversation that is opposed to the post-war consensus or liberalism or progressivism, then they're a fascist. And that's fine.

I'll take all the names. As long as there is like, why are you calling me this? If you're calling me this because I believe this, well, I believe this. Whatever label you want to put on to it is fine. But when you do something, like when the woke right thing came around

I mean, that was just literally, like, after October 7th, I noticed this, uh, this new propaganda that because the first people who were openly protesting Israel's response in Gaza were like leftists on campus, like what you would consider campus leftist, anyone on the right who actually was like, yeah, this is wrong too, well, you're just a leftist then. Or if you say, um, um, um, if you try to talk about how, um, like where, where the, like, maybe what the backgrounds of everyone in the Frankfurt school was, you know, oh, wait a minute. Now you're, now you're, now you're identifying people by their, um, by what they are like,

like, like, like the left does with white people. So now you're woke. So you're a leftist now. Okay. Whatever. I mean, I'm whatever. How do you do this with people? In the United States, in the United States, I think it's very easy. We have to allow people to have freedom of association and people to move wherever they want.

And we have to allow for some kind of de facto secession, if not de jure. I mean, if not, you know, real secession. And I think that's really the only way going forward. And I think you're seeing it already. I think you really started to see it in 2020 when, you know, I mean, you know, how many people I knew personally who moved to Florida in 2020 to get away from the COVID regime of states that they were in, or soon after in 2021. I mean, I lived right outside of Atlanta in 2021, and I couldn't get out of Atlanta, get out of that area quick enough because it was still, it was still bad. it was so even the governor even though the governor would um would be like all right you know no all this COVID regime stuff goes away you still have them pushing mandates you still have I mean like vaccine

mandates for um telling companies oh it's okay for you know you're a private company you can do whatever you want if you want a mandate that they have to work but then they would put pressure on them to do it um so I think the easiest thing is that people just need to break up and people need to go and And I know this happening. I know it happening in one place specifically where it seems to be very organic, where it wasn't planned. I know another place where it's a planned community. And as soon as as like post-war consensus people, you know, liberals, people who've bought into the liberal progressive worldview find out they immediately say they're fascists. Oh, look at all these fascists moving into the same community so they can all be together.

What are they planning on doing? Maybe they're just planning on getting away from you. Maybe it's just that simple. Maybe these people think that, you know, you people are, you know, the people in the White House, this deep state are going to cause World War III and that missiles are going to fly and that nukes are going to fly and they're getting somewhere where they think that they can wait it out and that they won't touch them. Why don't you mind your business?

Just mind your business. I don't care what these people do in New York. I would love to see New York walled off and watch them eat each other because they can't produce anything. They can't grow their own food. They rely on everything from the outside. They rely on basically everything from all the people they hate. You know, the area I live in is one of the big, if you buy eggs in this country,

a good chance it comes from the area I live in, beef too. okay what if we just stop that okay what do you where's your food coming from it doesn't have to be like that all you need to do is all we need to do is leave each other alone we can even trade we can even do we can even trade we can do business but when it comes to our culture leave us alone and you can have your culture up there and i still think there's going to be problems with I still think that, you know, if they'll look over and be like, you know, these progressives will be like, okay, so we split up and we don't have to deal with these people anymore. We can make all the laws we want and everything about, you know, abortion up to nine months in one day. We don't care.

Wait a minute. They banned abortion over there. They can't. But then again, there's people on this side of the, this side who would be like, look, they have abortion to nine months and one day. We have to go do something. Yeah. you can't you can't get away from this so what is what what is the answer I don't know what the answer is to that impulse you know when I I know that there are there are cultures all

over the world that completely offend me yet if I had control the government I would not want to go over there and even engage them I just would not do business with them not have any relations with them whatsoever I'm willing to leave people alone. The problem is, is that one thing these progressives and liberals and post-war consensus people have proven,

they're never going to leave us alone. So, I mean, what is the, how do you impose restraint? You can't have all the answers. Yeah, it's like, I've been going through Minchus Moldbugs' work again. There's

these really fun. Somebody through unqualified reservations into an Orson Wells AI. So you have Orson Wells reading Irvin. It's hilarious. This is very funny. But I was listening through why I'm

not a libertarian. And he just kind of gets into he gets into the circular logic of like minimum government or what restrains government. How do you have a limited government? Because you need to have a government that limits government. So ultimately you don't really

have a limited government. You have a total government. that decides to leave some things alone, apparently. And I think that from the liberal point of view, the classical liberal point of view, they, I think that everybody wants power. Everybody wants to be able to tell everybody else what to do. And the liberals edge on that is to say, if you give me all the power, that was cool.

If you give me all the power, I'll tell everybody else not to do anything, right? If you give me all the power, then I'll protect you from people, who will tell you what to do. So I'm going to tell everybody what to do, you know, is that repressive tolerance thing. And because there's a, even if you talk about just the whites, you have the whites that want to control everybody and the whites who want to be left alone because they're smart enough to get along to go along. And then there's the midwits who want to have this

really cozy managerial state that gives lip service to some sort of derathe. fascinated patriotism. It's not tied to the land. It's not tied to any given people. It's tied to these ideas. And anybody who can plug these ideas into their head can just become a liberal. And that's who belongs in this country. And everybody else doesn't belong in the country, but they still want to control. They want to control the Overton window. I love it. It's, it's hilarious to me that the people who were kicked out of the left for being moderates are now trying to police the right for not being moderate enough. Always happens. And I understand, I understand the impulse, but the right still does need to make the case for itself, clearly to people who are scared or who are, who have bought into this deep fear that's implanted within liberalism of authority. Like the right, the authoritarian's need to articulate what true authority is.

And I see a lot of it, I try not to make it identity. politics, but I see a lot of it, and this isn't about women or men, but I see a lot of liberals who have forsaken authority or have just deep daddy issues, ultimately. They end up acting out like this more and more feminized sort of war mongering, which is about reputation destruction, because they don't really have a sense of obedience and authority or loyalty either. They have these ideas. And one of the things that attracts me to the online right, the dissident right, whatever it's morphing into, is that you have a number of different men, specifically men, who have kind of decided to stand on their own feet and make peace with hierarchy and then start

to experiment with scaling that hierarchy. And I see the liberals being really, really scared of hierarchy for psychological reasons, but also because they don't think that... Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff, with up to 1500 euro and gift cards annually, completely tax-free, and even better, you can spread it over five different occasions. Now's the perfect time to try Options Card. Options Card is Ireland's brand-new, multi-choice employee gift card, packed with unique features that your staff will love. It's simple to buy, easy to manage, and best of all, there are no extra fees or hidden catches.

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Or they should be at the top of the hierarchy. So I just, I wonder what your explorations of that is or your point of view on that is. That was a lot. Yeah, no. Yeah, well, yeah. once you start thinking about these things and you realize just how complicated they are, you can just go, you can just talk for minutes and you're just like,

I just went to circle and came out. I went all the way out there, came back here. Thank you for the understanding. Oh, no, of course, 100%. You know, one thing I would say is you started off talking about the gatekeepers, how you have these, the left left me types and they come over,

the ID, the intellectual dork web types who, come over and immediately start to police. They're my people, just to be totally clear. They're my people. And you're a bunch of dorks. That's fine. I'm a dork too.

There's a lot of things I'm a dork on. All right. But, you know, one thing that I noticed about the left and the right just hasn't figured out, I guess if there's one thing, one message that I would like to put out there is, when the left has power, they not only get their radicals elected, they patronize their radicals. They, I mean, they become patrons to their radicals. They'll give them six-figure no-show jobs. I mean, all sorts of things.

The right cancels their radicals. Anyone to the right of Jonah Goldberg in like the Khan Inc. kind of world is, they're going to try and cancel you. And that's one of the things where the left left me kind of people, that's what they seek to do is anyone to their right. Well, this is dangerous. because classy, I remember a couple years ago, James Lindsay put out, he said, talking about the woke, that classical liberalism is going to be what destroys it and classical liberalism hasn't even started yet. And there's this, there's this meme that's gone around forever, like real communism has never been tried, real libertarianism. So what, real classical liberalism has

never been tried? I think we tried it. I think it's been going, I mean, I think classical liberalism was a big inspiration on the founding of this country. I mean, they studied, even though a lot of them were Christians and a lot of them were Bible-believing Christians, seven-day creationist Christians. They bought into a lot of the Enlightenment. They also bought into a lot of, you know, English legal theory going all the way back to the Magna Carta and individual rights. And I agree with individual rights within a collective. If your individuality, if you wanting to be an individual, destroys the collective,

destroys, starts to, if too many people decide they want to become individuals, and they don't care about the people around them, I mean, this is what a multicultural society breeds. Because you just don't care about your own, you don't care about people who are from somewhere else,

who are from a different culture, as much as you do your own people. And you can even see that in liberalism. And you can see where you get people kicked out of liberalism all the time, or you have the left, left me kind of people who walk out of liberalism all the time. But most of the time they're pushed out because they started, you know, oh, you know, I'm a radical feminist. Well, no, now I'm a turf.

Yeah. I mean, I remember one time I was just like, I just can't get down with this, like, trans stuff. And the person called me a turf. And I'm like, you think I'm a radical feminist? Are you insane? This is what your bubble is teaching you. I mean,

that you would call me a radical feminist, someone who I would repeal the 19th Amendment in a second if I had the power to do it. I mean, sorry. Well, yeah. If you look at the pattern. Ever since the 19th Amendment has been passed, we've only had one elected vice president or president

with facial hair. JD Vance. he's the first one. Maybe that's a sign that things are changing. The bearded. The bearded statesman returneth. You were going to say something, I apologize. No, it's a, if you look at the pattern of the left left me's,

and I guess I kind of had the same pattern in some form or, again, the IDW are kind of how I came into this conversation and the framework that I was using until I kept on asking questions. But the thing, the pattern of their cancellation is that the, the liberal that decides to stand

on a line or to defend a boundary, whether that's the differences between men or women or, I don't know, any sort of encroachment on, yep, any sort of we want to erode hierarchy, but we don't want to erode

reality. So I'm going to make my stand here. invariably it's the line that they draw that gets them kicked out. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card when with options card you can have both. With options card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favorite retailers or choose a spend anywhere card.

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And then they at once start to try to draw lines, you know, and try to like arrange the deck chairs for everybody else, arrange the furniture. But they're always really, you can kind of sense this fear or this wariness, in the very least, against the boundary drawing that the right is willing to accept. Like they don't want the boundaries drawn.

So there's still liberals in that they don't want boundaries. They want some, so they're still trying to figure out, like, they're in this gray area of like they want some boundaries, not other boundaries. They want to negotiate boundaries. And I'm there too. I'm like, well,

who's going to draw the boundaries? And like, ultimately, I would like this kind of libertarian marketplace that will allow people, to collectively, you know, live their lives and leave other people alone. But it's just there's so much middle ground. How do we carve up that? How do we keep people from imposing boundaries on other people?

Well, you need a boundary maker to do that. So you're back in the circular logic with authoritarianism. I can just get lost in this question. Well, it always comes back to some form of monarchy, whether you want to call it CEO, whether you want to call it a king, whether you want to call it. Or executive.

Yeah, executive. You want someone to make decisions to be the final arbiter so that you have someone to blame it on. Tell me right now, who, on January 19th, before Trump took office, name me the person in the government,

working in the government, elected or non-elected, who's responsible for what the government has become. You can't do it. That's what managerialism is. It's just this endless group of men. I remember people saying, you know, talking about, every once in a while you'll have some idiots talking about,

you know, overthrow the government. I'm like, how would you do that? There's no head to the snake. There's no head to the snake. You could, I'm not advocating this. I'm using this as an example. You can blow up Congress while it's in session. Does that end the government?

we've had a president assassinated before. We've had multiple, but I mean, at least in 1963, did that end the government? No, it is this monster that just keeps going because it's managerial. There's no one at the top. Now, in a monarchy, sure, if a monarch is deposed, is deposed, you have someone who steps in and takes their place. okay, at least you know who's in charge. At least you know who's making the decisions. At least you know who to blame.

I used to say this in my libertarian days. It was like, I think local government is preferable to any kind of government because you're going to know where your mayor lives. Yeah. Yeah. So you can reach out and touch them. And what I mean by that is you can knock on his door and say, hey, I don't agree with this.

not any other way. But yeah, I mean, until that's the one thing, in my opinion, one of the reasons World War I was fought was to end monarchies, was to end, you know, end any kind of monarchical power. I mean, you still had monarchies after,

but they were very parliamentary. I mean, even if you go back centuries in Spain, the courts has pretty much their version of, of a parliament, ran everything. And even their elites, when you really dig into their history, elites were pretty much moving,

always moving the king and queen one way or another. But you still have one person's of blame. You still have one person. You're gathered, you're organized around one person. And that's what the most important thing, in my opinion, that's what the most important thing is, is one person making the decisions. And I think that that person should maybe even have a stake,

a financial stake in how well the society does. Take Liechtenstein for most people don't even know about Liechtenstein. This is little principality in the middle in Germany. And it's independent. They have a king. I think his name is Alois now. His dad was Hans Adams, the second. And I read Hans Adams' second's book, the third, the state in the third millennia.

And it's really, really good. I mean, this is a guy who basically said, if you don't want to pay taxes, you don't have to pay taxes. He owns his own, he's a CEO of a major of an international corporation, which pretty much funds the whole, this whole principality of 20 to 30,000 people. Okay. They've sent people off to war before, but they haven't been pulled into war. war. Why not? You know, Hans Harman Hoppet when he wrote his book, Democracy, the God that Failed, very popular

book, I think everyone should read it because he at least makes the argument in the beginning. He takes the stance that monarchy is preferable to democracy, and he explains why. And he doesn't just explain it in a page. He takes chapters to explain, okay, this is the way democracy work, this is the way a monarchy this is the way monarchy works yeah and you know what he basically says is he goes his his whole goal and then through a speech of his from 1997 called what must be done um which sounds a lot like lenin's what is to be done and i mean democracy of the god that failed is um taken from communism the god that failed his he studied under harbormass in germany so i mean he came out of communism and

you know he embraced libertarianism anarcho-capitalism eventually. I can't go as far as anarcho-capitalism. It makes absolutely no sense to me, and it's globalism to me. It's globalist in nature. But what he said was, in his speech, what must be done,

is that we need to get down to 10, in the United States, it needs to be 10,000 Liechtenstein's. You need 10,000 city states. That's the way you have order. You have a bunch of people who come together. You can still have, you can still have a confederation,

like how the country started where if there's any foreign you know if they're foreign adversary any foreign threats but as long as you don't have this big gigantic powerful um mona this leviathan that is you know yeah always swims left as jarvin says yeah which it does then you can you can concentrate on organizing around what you have in common. Yeah. Not what your differences are.

I mean, basically our governance now is based upon what our differences are. It's how do you deal with different warring factions within a polity? And they just, sure,

when Europe was individual countries, you didn't have the European, Union and you had Germans and you had Frenchmen. Sure, there were wars. They were very local, small wars. Every once in a while, you know, some people would be like, well, what about 30 years war? What about, yeah, you know about, you know.

Every once in a three years. Yeah, but you know about that because that was an anomaly. You don't know about the little skirmishes. You don't know about the border skirmishes because that was something that happened all the time. but you know about you know most people don't know that like China and India right now are trading shots on their border they're trading they're fighting on their own border

people don't know that China and Vietnam shooted each other at the on the border they share all the time why because it's not it that's the way it is that's the way that part of the world works and that's the way Europe used to work and we didn't get world wars until we had to you know, some powerful people decided that

monarchy needed to be broken down and we needed to enter into this age of pure American of liberalism. Yeah, yeah. And, you know, you saw what was, what were the white blood cells against that? It was fascism. And then, and then you had that monster on up north called communism. the revolution in 1917, which just changed everything. Because not only is Europe or certain European states being attacked after World War I to become, you know, to become, to change what they are. But they also have the threat of an international thinking kind of, I mean, it's odd. Anyone who says that Russia was that Soviet Union wasn't going to invade Europe is absolutely insane.

I mean, they were on the side of the regime in on the side of the Republicans in the Spanish Civil War. And the Republicans were the Republicans in name only. Their biggest allies were communists and anarchists and left libertarians. So, you know, to believe that if, if Franco would have lost, if Franco would have lost the Spanish Civil War in 1939, Soviet Union would have been on the north, been organized on the north,

and would be organized and would have basically Gibraltar and the south of the peninsula. All they would need to do is to close in, and they could take the whole peninsula of Europe. So how did I get there? World War I, the end of monarchy. Yeah, yeah, yeah, monarchy. Caluminess threat and then the internationalists, mercantile class wanting to...

And for better or for worse, for better or for worse, what you had was in Germany, you had one person in charge. After, you know, before, in the interwar periods. In Italy, you had the same thing. Well, had to have a world war to stop that, right? I mean... Yeah. I guess, yeah. You don't start.

Two countries do not invade. another country because they invade a city that is historically German. They go into a city that is historically German, like Danzig, because ethnic Germans are being killed there by a Polish hunter regime. Oh, does this sound familiar like something that may have happened in the last 10 years? That ethnic, an ethnic group was in a neighboring country, and they were being killed and slaughtered by that home. country and then the country that these people were from invaded to stop it.

That sounds like Ukraine and Russia, doesn't it? Huh. History might not repeat itself, but it certainly has some cycles. Yeah. I think one other, that dual aspect that liberals have a problem with is talk about a people and one person. It's like any one person that has authority and then one people that is clearly defined.

And I think that they've inherited, we've inherited, I think everybody's pretty liberal right now. It's really hard to break from it. That's why Yarvin's work is so fascinating because he's doing a lot of work to try to pop you out of the bubble and see the world as it was before this bubble that we're in.

it's just it's interesting this this ability to have a home and have a king have have a people and have a person and and fit into that cycle or that that structure and that structure is I think it can get along with global trade I don't think I don't know why you can't have a Costco and trade with China and people having free association I don't know how that works with overlapping ethnicities. I don't know how they all get along with each other with one person that is of a people lording over everybody else. I don't know how you go from America to that. But I do understand the reality of that through history.

Liberals seem to almost speak of Obama as like a king. Remember there was like immediately there were. there were things done in like programs put together in schools where you had public school kids like singing songs praising Barack Obama. So it seems like they have no problem with being ruled over by one person

as long as they agree with that person and like that person. I'm saying I just want the same thing. That's what everyone should have. Everyone should have what they want. And I'm just saying that I think that if you look through history, when you have the most order, you have the most order when one person is in charge and you know who it is, as opposed to the chaos that we have now. I mean, people, there are legitimately people in this country who are like, what is Trump doing? Why is he doing this?

Why is he dismantling all this? because what he's dismantling is chaos. It's pure. I mean, people are like saying, oh, Trump is causing chaos. No, he's like, by getting rid of all these departments, which are, a lot of them are redundant to other ones. And a lot of them just are what fuels this managerialism where you don't have competent people in charge. You have people who either are looking to just keep their jobs. So they're growing whatever kind of power they can in the government.

You have people in the government who get enough power where they can take out personal, they have personal animosities against groups of people or other people. And they just use that power. I mean, Merrick Garland, we just had four years of Merrick Garland doing that to people he didn't like personally. Then you have someone like Victoria Newland who's never been elected to an office.

who orchestrates the war in Ukraine, orchestrates a coup in Ukraine, then orchestrates it to the point where Putin has to invade. And this is a person who's never been elected. And I mean, I've made the argument that she's doing it because she hates Russians because her family's from the Pala settlement. And she blames, she blames, she'll always blame Russians on what happened to her family in the Pala settlement, which I'm going over on a book now on my show, which you find out is it wasn't all. It was their own little kingdom. But yeah, I mean, so chaos is something that is,

it's hard for people to seek chaos when they've been basically indoctrinated into believing that that chaos is order. And I think that's what this regime is. This regime is just utter chaos, but because the regime gets to educate people, gets to control, I mean, some people call the media,

the corporate media. I don't call it that anymore. I call it the regime media. Just when do they ever go against the regime? Well, only when somebody who's in power, they're going against the regime, they're going against the person who threatens the regime.

regime. I think that most people, if they really sat down and thought about it, and there's a lot that won't, you're just, I'm also not a populist in the sense that I don't want to wake, I'm not one of these wake up the masses kind of people, because I think waking up the masses leads more towards revolutions of 1789 and 1793 than it does 1776. which were insane, which were precursors to what happened in the Spanish Civil War.

But the, I think that people are, if you're going to have drastic change like Trump is doing, people need to be ready for it so you don't have a revolution. The worst thing, the worst thing any leader wants is a revolution

because it's just going to, they want power. They want to be able to, that people will be able to if they really look at what he's doing and what he's trying to do and I don't know that he's going to go all the way probably not.

This is probably going to be a multi-generational thing and I'm fine with that. I'm fine with trying to lay the groundwork for that. They'll see that what's on the other side is much preferable to what we have now. You're, I mean, what is the left?

The left is about fighting. They're about just constantly, constant revolution. Constant revolution against any, against what they've been taught is the enemy, fascism, traditionalism, religion, whatever. You don't have to fight. You just have to separate. You just have to go find your own people

and allow association to be free. And more importantly, allow disassociation to be free. You don't have to celebrate it. You just have to accept that it's what's best for the future. Peter, I didn't know I was going to get into when we spoke. I thoroughly enjoyed our conversation. Thank you very much for giving me the ability to kind of embarrass myself by rambling a little bit, trying to find the questions and stuff.

But I really enjoyed your presence and your openness to letting me a riff. Where can people find you and what are they going to find when they get there? The Pete Cagnanis show, all podcatchers, Pete Seventh. substack.com. My substack is I try to at least three days a week rant just you know stuff that's on my mind that specific day but my podcast is more towards a lot of history. I've done you know myself and Thomas 777 have done a we have a 24 episode World War II from the from the German point of view, which is something that actually that Daryl Cooper is doing right now, World War II from the German point of view, the German point of view. We've done World War one. We've done the Cold War. The Cold War is another series that we've done. But I mean, I've covered everything from the Spanish Inquisition on my show to just talk, you know, some episodes just have a friend on and we'll talk about current events and see what's going on.

what most people would consider to be from a far right perspective or dissident right, which I don't even know what that means anymore. It's one of those things like, you know how alt-right just came and went? Yeah. I think dissident right is coming and going. Yeah. Well,

you can't be a dissident when it looks like things might be going in your direction. Or else you just a bitch. It's really difficult. And I've always said, I'm not one of these people. I think there's a lot of people out there who they want things to stay bad. because it gives them content. I've always said,

I'll just become a sports podcast. I would love to have a hockey podcast if I got the world and the society that I want to live in. But the Pekina show, Pete Subsect.com. I'm also a member of the Old Glory Club. We talked about people getting together

who are of like-mind and everything, and we're putting together charter chapters all over the country where people come together, fraternity, support each other, do whatever they want. They can be a group that wants to run for, get someone elected to a local office

or they can want to just go fishing and drink beer. Yeah. It doesn't matter. But yeah, my show is what I've been doing for, this will be July, I'll be eight years. Oh, wow. And, yeah. We started about the same time.

I started in June, it'll be my eighth year anniversary. What sparked that? July, July of 2017. Yeah. probably hubris just thinking that's honesty that's refreshing thinking that I could

do 15 episodes on what my ideology was at that time political ideology which now I look back on and I laugh because it seemed to be so outside the realm of reality and there's some good stuff there but it seemed to be so far outside the realm

of reality as to how especially 2020 2020 really showed me that people don't want to be free. People aren't going to start mass movements to stop government overreach and that people are just sitting around waiting to be told what to do and what to believe, unfortunately, which it wasn't like that, but it is. So, yeah, that's me. That's what I've been doing. Peter, thank you very much. I got to wrap up the episode now, so I'm going to end the recording,

but thank you very much for coming on my show. Of course, Benjamin. Thank you very much.