The Pete Quiñones Show - Pete on The OGC's 'Nathanael Greene Society' X/Twitter Space Discussing Dispensationalism

Episode Date: April 25, 2025

81 MinutesPG-13The Nathanael Greene Society of the Old Glory Club asked Pete to join them for their weekly Twitter/X Space to talk about the 19th-century theological theory of dispensationalism and how it affects us today, especially with regard to foreign policy.Nathanael Greene Society X AccountPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Full of Nismo in EGrid Pongahy. All right, we've got a decent number of people on. I think we're probably good to go ahead and start. Remember,

this is recorded to anyone who miss anything can always relisten and catch up with parts of it. If everyone else is good with that,

I think we can go ahead and start. So, hey, my name is Luke. I'm the president of the Nathaniel Green Society. We, of course, are the North Carolina chapter of the Old Glory Club.

We have this space every week to discuss a variety of topics and to chat with some very good guests. And tonight we are thankful to have a new guest with us, but familiar to pretty much anyone who's involved in these sort of right-wing circles, especially on Twitter. So any of the other officers can introduce themselves, and we'll let our guest introduce himself, and we can kind of move into the topic. Yeah, I'll go. Hey guys, I'm Kevin or KevBot, Secretary of NGS. Good to be chatting with you all tonight. I am appeal to heaven, and I am one of the five officers at large in the club for the NGS. Looking forward to tonight's conversation.

Good evening, everyone. My name is Panam, the vice president, Nathaniel Green Society. I'm behind the society account tonight. Thanks for coming. And I'm Chief Slack, the X-Space enthusiast. I think our fifth officer is not with us at the moment, and so I guess we can move on to our guest, and then we'll let him introduce himself on the topic.

Hey, this is Pekinganos. Host of the Pekingianos show. I'm a charter member and an officer in the Central Committee for the Whole Glory Club, one of the first 10 people in there. And yeah, I guess the gentleman invited me on because they wanted to talk about dispensationalism, and I've done a couple episodes on it.

I've read some books on it, and I pretty much, you know, 20 years ago, dismissed it as, you know, just brainwerellable. washing junk theology, but, you know, it does rear its ugly head. And I guess if it's going to be something that influences our, you know, the U.S. foreign policy, it's something you're going to have to revisit every once in a while. So, yeah, that's where I'm at.

Well, we appreciate you coming on to talk with us. Yeah, dispensationalism is one of those things where it doesn't really make a lot of if you weren't raised around it, you're kind of surprised that anybody really adheres to it. But, you know, it still is alive and well, although it does seem to be sort of aging out. Most of its, you know, hardcore adherence tend to be, I would say, probably in their late 50s, 60s, or older now.

But you're right, it has historically impacted America's foreign policy. It still does, to a degree, and it still holds sway in some of the lingering neocon. influencers that are out there. And if you're a raised Baptist, even if you weren't taught it explicitly, it's a little bit still kind of in the air you breathe, not as much as it used to be, but it's still somewhat present. So it's good to revisit it.

We appreciate you coming on to kind of tackle that. Yeah, no problem. I was raised Catholic, baptized as a baby, First Communion, you know, Catholic school. I went to a Jesuit school. This, when I got to high school, when I graduated high school, I pretty much just stopped going to church. And it wasn't until I was around 28 or 29 that I started attending a Baptist church. And I didn't last very long in that one, but I went to another church, which was more reformed Baptist, like 1689 confession. and it just never

it was never a topic of conversation until I decided I was going to I was going to take seminary classes and it was brought up and it was it was just one of those things that I went to a Presbyterian a PCA Presbyan Church of America Seminary and it was just one of those things

that was brought up as like a joke you know it was like the things that we'd argue over were like pedobaptism and you know, eschatology. So I started studying it and I started reading about it. And I was like, how can anyone read the Bible and get this out of this? It just doesn't make any sense. It's you're bringing something to the text.

You've made a conclusion. Now you're bringing it to the text and you're figuring out, you're going cafeteria to the scripture to figure out how to make it work. And even so, it doesn't work. I mean, I just don't, I'm sorry, I'm a pattern noticeer guy. If that was true, if there was any truth to it, I would have noticed the pattern. I would have noticed it explicitly. And it just doesn't make any sense.

I mean, I'm not saying that there isn't going to be like a physical rapture one day. You know, you can argue over when that is, but the whole thing about dispensations and then the whole thing, you know, especially the thing about modern day Israel having anything to do with what's in, you know, the 66 books or 72 books, sorry, of scripture. I don't see it. Yeah, it is very much something you kind of have to bring with you to the text. and if you study this massacialism, and I guess you've read more of the history of this, but it's always struck me as something that that's very obviously what happened. You know, there were some people who had some conclusions,

maybe not entirely sure how they got there, but they really got in their mind, you know, certain aspects about the Jews and sort of their role in eschatology and the present day, and they just decided that was true. And then in order to make that, you know, that quote-unquote fact reality, they just had to bend the entire text to kind of match it. Well, yeah, and even if you want to,

if you don't want to accuse anybody of doing it for certain purposes, which, you know, once you study and, you know, if you, you don't have to read it, but, I mean, you can peruse the Schofield, what is it, Schofield, the man in his book? I have the PDF, and I've just, you know, control left the whole book for certain things. You know, you realize that it was,

it was put out for a reason. And it's not a, I don't think it's a, a coincidence that this, this teaching arose at the same time Zionism. You know, proto-Zionism was rising in Russia and in other places. So, yeah, I mean, it just, there is in order for you to believe it

you would basically have to say that I don't think that you can believe in dispensationalism and say you know scripture is inerrant because you're you're either going to be ripping out ignoring ignoring whole

passages you're going to be jettisoning 2,000-year-old, well, at the time, 1850-year-old teachings. And, you know, I mean, maybe that's what, you know, this is it. I mean, 500 years ago, they decided to jettison 1,500 years of teaching. So, you know, I mean, maybe that's not, it's not so surprising. Well, at least in the Reformation, you saw continuity, even though you did end up seeing a big divide between the schools. the reformers still claim to have a continuity there.

The environment that Dispensationalism arose out of was not really attempting to do that though. So, you know, so dispensationalism came a little bit after the Second Great Awakening, but the Second Great Awakening specifically was very much oriented towards restorationism.

I mean, and there was some good that came out of it, actually. You know, like there were positive benefits. I think there were a lot of people who became, you know, genuine believers during that. time, but there was no attempt like before to show much in the way of continuity with the past. I think that's a reason why, even though you did see revival, which I think was genuine in many cases, you also saw a lot of cults form at the same time. You know, it was sort of a cultural mood where people were very confused, either didn't

know about the past who didn't care about it, and it's not surprising that's sort of in the aftermath of that, even though it may not have arisen exactly at the same time as when you started to see the rise of dispensationalism. Because you're right, there's really no record of the belief as far as we know, I would say, before the mid-1800s are said. Sure, and I'm just being hyperbolic and

you know, taking jabs. But yeah, I mean, this comes out of nowhere. And, you know, inevitably, you'll have somebody who will pull up, like, one like theologian from, I don't know, from maybe 50, you know,

from the early 1500s forward or even before then. And all that is is the exception proving the rule. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs.

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Full of Nis more in Ergaret, Pongaii. One guy had an idea, it's not even close. It echoes something that Darby and Schofield were teaching. And you just have... What they have to do is they have... have to

basically torture somebody's words in order to present it. And, yeah, I mean, it's not like the Reformation. I understand why the Reformation happened. You can't explain why this happened. Really, and once you start studying this, you realize that it had to be something nefarious. And I'm not saying that there weren't any nefarious forces working in the background of the Reformation, not there were,

and we don't need to get into that. That's another space. But this is something that is obviously in your face. It's one of those things where you look at it and you're like, okay, I mean, this isn't even subtle. Yeah, and then you look at a certain group who is just not subtle with their propaganda and you're like, okay, I understand. I understand what happened. Well, so I guess to keep the, I guess to sort of provide some background for any who may not be familiar

with it. Would you like to start with what you consider to be the historic roots to the obviously it's kind of a new thing that came somewhat out of nowhere, but you know, where do the beginnings of this teaching seem to be like how did it get popularized? Maybe so we can kind of explain how it became so big in the U.S. in particular.

It's kind of hard to pin it down, but it seems to have come out of the revival movement. of the 1800s. There were some excited utterances by an Irish girl in the 1830s. I can't remember. I used to know all this stuff by heart. It's been years.

I try not to think about it anymore. That's where the rapture came from. It was like, oh, I mean, it was literally a girl who was mentally ill. And Darby heard this and ran. with it. She had a dream. Yeah, it was something like that, right? It was like, yeah, it was like a fever dream or something. I mean, she was known to be mentally ill. She had, you know, she was disturbed. And apparently Darby heard of this. I mean, I don't think he heard of it first hand,

but he heard of this and just decided to run with it. And then you, you come forward and right around the time the proto-Zionist writings are being written in your 1850s and 1860s you start hearing people talking about this and it's been a long time since I read

that Schofield book and it's been a while since I did an episode on this but I'm trying to remember when exactly Schofield presents this and I know Samuel Untermeier a very wealthy

benefactor was the one who was the one who got it published, and he helped to get it into all the Moody Bible colleges. And this is right around, I think this happens right around, right after the First World War in the early 1920s. Correct me if I'm wrong. That's correct.

He's also an occultist of some sword with the Golden Dragon Order or something, if you look into that. But yeah, he was one of the public, or be a helped publish it funded at least. Well, and if you get your study Bible and, you know, this wasn't like, my friend Buck Johnson, who I love, I've known for years, he was doing a show on it recently, and he said that, oh, this was the first study Bible, and I was like, actually the Geneva Bible had notes.

Most people don't know that. It was 15, I can't remember what year that Bible came out. But it was just basically notes on. And it wasn't trying to, it was trying to explain like the tougher passages, things like that. But, you know, this is those notes, these notes turn out to be basically teaching you that the Bible has its own worldview. And that God has given you the Bible. And now he's inspired these notes. which is basically the way it was sold,

and that this is exactly what scripture teaches. And I'm not saying this hyperbolicly. I mean, I've met people face to face who believe this, who believe that the notes of the Schofield Bible are somewhat inspired. And I have a hard time believing that this was hidden for 1850 years. I mean, I know a lot of people think the Catholic Church is so evil that they have, you know, the Library of Alexandria is in the basement of the Vatican. I don't think they would have hidden this hide, hidden this for 1,500 years. And then what, another 350 years of, uh, of Protestantism doesn't figure it out.

And then all of a sudden this just drops out of the sky. I mean, it is literally like it, it may as well be, have been written on golden tablets. Yeah, that I mean that was kind of the attitude of that sort of mid-19th century revivalism anyway. And again, like the cults that came from that time had the same attitude. I mean, you mentioned the golden plates,

but literally that's the milieu that Mormonism comes out of. You know, I mean, like, it's again, that mood of wanting to just make a complete break from the past and Mormons decided to take a really complete break from the past and just do their own thing entirely. But it was that same attitude.

You know, the thing with the Schofield study Bible, too, was, and this is one of the reasons why, I'm just like, you know, you mentioned the Geneva Bible, but the Geneva Bible was so impactful in its time. And it's hard for us to kind of remember this now, because we have so much access to information. And even our parents said, you know, they didn't have the Internet so much, but they had, at least they had libraries with a lot of these info in it from various perspectives. When the Schofield Bible came out for a lot of people, that's the only, like, the only theology they had to, other than the Bible itself, that was really really. the only commentary they had. Maybe Matthew Henry's commentary, but I don't think it was popular than the way it is now.

And so for a lot of those guys, I mean, yeah, this is the first time they ever heard someone, you know, do an in-depth explanation of what the Bible was in a written form, and also one where they could regularly interface with it as they were doing their private reading. And so, yeah, for a lot of people, I mean, even if they didn't at

the time say it was divinely inspired, I mean, if that's the one guy who's consistently teaching you, I mean, you're going to hold that one man's opinion to high regard. Even if the notes he's saying don't actually match the text, you know, they could just be completely unrelated in the most cases. But that's what you had, and so they decided to cling to it. You have this also, the Skullfield Bible off town,

is a, if someone just started getting back in the church or going back to church and they didn't have a Bible, churches would just hand those out too. So those were common Bibles that were given to people. And I mean, among the seminaries, they would do that stuff as well. Yeah. And you mentioned, like, Matthew Henry's commentary. When I was going to Protestant Church, I was partial to John Gill's, which is gigantic. I mean, you're talking about multiple volumes.

And basically what you, the genius, the evil genius of the Schofield Bible, is basically you have a demented systematic theology that you can carry in your hand. There aren't many people who are able to carry around multiple volumes of Matthew Henry or John Gill

or the many other many other ones that came out of Princeton in like the 1900s. But this gives you a systematic theology and it makes you think, it makes, especially a new believer, someone who's naive, someone who doesn't know anything about church history, who doesn't

know that no one was talking about this, you know, more than 150, 200 years ago, it makes them feel like they know something. And also, the whole thing about it, pointing towards eschatology has always been something of a problem with me. I'm very much a, I'm very much a, I don't know how much so anymore, but very much a preterist. And if you want to be a preterist, you have to go find books like the Perusia. You have to go, you're reading 500-page books, and you're finding books that have been out of print for a century. And the problem, one of the biggest problems I have with eschatology is,

it is very attractive for the average person because the average person is not very intelligent. They're not reading,000, they're not reading, you know, 500 page books, thousand page books. They're not digging into commentaries. They're not going to the Bible, to the library at the local seminary. Eschatology and believing in eschatology as like, I know the truth of what's going to happen. Ready for huge savings?

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And I think that's what this Gofield Bible was. It was something to play to the average person's ego where they're reading scripture and then they're like, I don't understand this. And then they go down to the notes and it's like, oh, this is telling me exactly what this scripture means and what it means, what God meant by inspiring this scripture. And then, you know, but then you look at the history of, you know, a scripture about, I don't know, pick one that is, you know, 70 weeks a day. Yeah. I mean, something that has been for 2,000 years debated, you know, in, in frigging monasteries.

And people are like, oh, I know exactly what this means. It's like, wait a minute, you know exactly. You know more than Thomas Aquinas? You're going to say that Aquinas was wrong about what he said about this scripture, and it just plays to people's egos. And I think that's one of the things that it's one of the reasons why, I mean, you have to study eschatology, but it's one of the reasons why I hate eschatology is because very, very unsurious people, who are not even unsurious people, very uneducated people, people who do not

who can't tell you how they would feel if they didn't eat breakfast this morning, now believe that they know exactly what scripture, what scripture means when this has been debated for 2,000 years. Well, another way to kind of approach what you're getting at is, you know, so I'm going to, you know, speak from a Protestant perspective, but, you know, one big, you know, one big, you know, biblical hermeneutic that came out of the Reformation was that you are, it's all. always better to, so the Bible's sufficient to interpret itself in the sense that, you know, like you can read the Bible, and the Bible will explain what it means to you through its referencing itself.

But if you're going to do that, you have to start with the passages that are really, like, easy to understand, and then you work from there into more complicated passages. If you're someone who gets really into eschatology, you're starting with probably, like, one of the most complicated subjects in theology coming to a form of certainty on it, and then, taking your conclusion and working into the plain meaning of the text. You know, so, for example, you'll have people who will have really, really strong opinions on, like, the thousand-year reign, for example, from the end of Revelation, and they'll start there, and they'll use that interpretation to explain passages that really are, like, pretty straightforward, but because they came to a really firm and usually erinous conclusion on the thousand-year reign, all of a sudden, the whole Bible gets distorted, you have to take these plain passages and make them kind of twist to mesh into what you decided your eschatology was. When in reality, you know, it really should take you years to get there. Well, yeah, and that's, I think that that's one of the reasons why they had to get it into the Moody Bible colleges immediately was if we're going to make this go wide, it has to, the person and the person and the

pulpit has to believe it. And, you know, like I said, if the person in the pulpit is standing up there and, you know, it's like, I was just thinking about this. Like Matthew Henry, I've used Matthew Henry's Bible commentary extensively per John Gill's. When you read through like Paul's letters, they're pretty, they're pretty solid on what they mean. and almost to the point of there's sort of not so much with Gil, but with Henry, a little bit of an arrogance, like, I mean, come on, come on, guys, this is easy stuff. But not when they get to eschatology. When they get to eschatology, you see that shifts away and you see different arguments for what different passages mean. And you have to take into consideration that if you're going to brainwash, a whole generation or generations of people into believing that they know exactly what prophecy means. I mean, do you understand how dangerous? Does anybody understand how dangerous that is?

I mean, this is why you can show so many evangelicals videos of Israelis, raping prisoners and they either are going to completely ignore it or if they do comment on it they're going to make excuses for it I mean you're yes it's multiple generation brainwashing I mean and it goes from like a pastor to a layman and then I'm not layman to the family and then you know just keeps repeating the cycle over and over again

yeah so there's no real humility about it. And, you know, one thing that I know from studying scripture, from studying systematic theology, going down numerous rabbit holes on satirological discussions from the 15-16-hundreds, the debates between the Baptists and the covenant theologians. I mean, the scripture is not easy. It's not. It just isn't. There are some things that were, there's some things that you're going to go to the grave,

not being able to understand. And handing someone a Bible and saying, here, now you can understand everything that's in here. That's not only dangerous, that's basically abuse. That's spiritual abuse. And I think you have generations of people that have been spiritually abused. Yeah, there's also some other things that start to factor into the 20th century that kind of makes it this like self-fulfilling prophecy where you were talking about early Zionism. Well, I guess it comes from the Russian pale kind of settlement. You start seeing that going on in the 1880s.

And you start seeing that during World War I with the Balford Declaration and all that kind of stuff that comes out of it. but you also have some other writers at the time. I don't know. Are you familiar with Clarence Larkin? He's the guy that does all the charts. He got out a book called A Dispensational Truth. I actually have it here on my desk that I'm looking at right now. Yeah, I used to do the books for the South Florida Lifeway stores,

and I saw all those books when I was doing those. I don't remember those in the seminary, that book in the seminary library, but I know I've seen that book, and it's just, talk about a book that you're like, oh, this is the truth. And then you give it to somebody and you're like, you look at it and you're like, what the hell? What is this? It's full of lots of different charts. And I was going through some passages the other day.

And I mean, you've got some of these kind of predictions in there that the time of the church ends this year or the time of the church ended in 1888. I think that was what I was reading. And then you start having this kind of like what you could saw. I know they'll say that cover. It's replacement theology, but really what they're doing is it's subverting the church and then replacing the church with the modern nation state of Israel. And that kind of stuff ran rampant in smaller little Bible colleges all throughout the south and probably a little bit of the north, especially amongst Baptist throughout the 20th century. And then they would start producing these little pamphlet books here that aren't more than 50 pages that are basically kind of, like even a more watered-down version of what Schofield was writing.

And especially you see this ramp up in the 1950s, it's like 1950s right after 48 that all these little books like John R. Rice, Peter R. Kuhlachman, Howles Anderson, a lot of these guys started producing and distributing these here to their Sunday school classes. I'm looking at one right now, and this one was printed in 1950. And approximately 60,000 copies in 1950, 51, 5,000, 52, 5,000. So you're thinking like a little book like this right here that's not more than 50 pages got distributed to, I don't know, roughly 70 to 80,000 people here. And these all were mainly distributed to Sunday school classes, adult Sunday school classes. And who knows how many people that taught and how many, you know, people, you know, people, you know,

you know, those people taught. So it becomes kind of this like cascading effect here, where, you know, you have Schofield, and he kind of comes up with this novel idea, or really it's the Plymouth Brethren and Schofield just runs with it. And you end up having Larkin with his charts, and it starts looking a little bit, I'll just use the word,

it starts looking more scholarly, and a lot of your smaller Baptist colleges and evangelical kind of schools of thought, they start picking this up and start running with it, especially after 48. So you have now, you're talking about the generation before the boomers, you've got your silent generation, they kind of buy into it a little bit,

and then the boomer generation, they really, really buy into it. And I think largely it's pretty much destroyed church attendance in America, just like as a whole. I mean, even though you still have, you know, the boomers clinging on to this kind of ideology, I think what's happened, and you brought this up in your opening here, it's almost like you're living in a dispensational political worldview now

rather than a theological dispensational worldview. And I would say something like having a heritage American position would be, you know, if you want to put it into political terms, would be like a covenant view of what America is, not spiritualizing it really, but that's kind of, where we're at right now in the 21st century where, you know, even people that don't even know they're dispensational, they're still kind of espousing this kind of dispensational worldview that we see today. Well, Peter, it's, go.

Oh, sorry, I was going to say, I was saying that sort of sounded like that was a good transition point into how exactly that worldview, which still exists, but I think certainly was very strong. A few decades ago you saw it certainly in full strength around George W. Bush. But I was wondering if you could give us sort of a historical breakdown on how this way of seeing the world sort of entered into our foreign policy, sort of when that arose, how long you think it persisted, and whether you think that's kind of still on the way out or whether you think that still has some staying power. Did we lose question here? I'm sorry. I was muted out. Okay, sorry about that. Wow, I'm a, don't worry, I'm a professional. So what I was saying was if you look at when the Bible started hitting, when the Schofield Bible started hitting Bible colleges, which gives it legitimacy.

Preachers stand up, it gives it even more legitimacy. They start preaching it. this must be the truth. Ninety-eight is when you, you know, people are like, okay, the clock begins. Israel has been refounded and now everything, you know, we're going to now shoehorn this into this teaching. And you don't, what's funny is if you really study the 50s and the 60s, there's so much, the 50s is very political time. the 60s is very revolutionary time. It's once you get into the 70s, you really start seeing people that are like,

well, you know, we're coming up on one generation of Israel. And someone like, I think it was Hal Lindsay who wrote, what was it, 88 reasons or, it was it? 88 reasons why the rapture will happen in 1988, something like that. And of course, I mean,

all of these predictions never come. true. Does anybody, I'm old enough to remember, Y2K. I'm going to take this off on a side tangent for a while, for a second, just so that I can talk about the pastors that should have been taken out and stoned. I was doing books for Lifeway Baptist, Lifeway Baptist stores in South Florida in 1999 and 2000. and the amount of preachers that got rich off of Y2K, the world is coming to an end books.

They should have been taken out and stoned. And the fact that they kept their flocks is, I mean, to me is, all right, I'll go back now. So Jesus doesn't come back in 1988. The rapture doesn't happen in 1988. Okay. So we got that wrong. they can always just keep changing everything. Then you get into the late 19,

you get into the 1990s. And I was working, like I said, I was doing, I was doing books for a book chain in South Florida. Does anybody remember a series of books that came out in the late 1990s, even if you weren't alive? You talking about the left behind series? Yes, I was working doing books in a Christian bookstore when you couldn't even keep those on the shell.

And people were like lined up for the new releases. Have you ever had a conversation with somebody where they start basically quoting that book for theology? Yeah. Discover five-star luxury at Trump Dunebeg. Unwind in our luxurious spa. Save her sumptuous farm-fresh dining. Relax in our exquisite accommodations. Step outside and be captivated by the wild Atlantic surrounds.

Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you in mind. Give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dunebeg. Search Trump Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunebiog, Kush Farage. It's pretty unbelievable. Yeah. I mean, I was having conversations with people in 1999 who were, like, like, why hasn't this been made into a movie yet?

And every once in a while, you'd have somebody slip and go, why hasn't this been made into a documentary? I mean, a movie yet. Yeah, it's a, I remember when the, uh, the movie actually, the first movie came out. They had, uh, like, churches all over the area, had basically watch parties, um, that you could go to and watch it. And then the pastor would come and discuss what you had watched and, you know,

break it down. And then, of course, out comes the, uh, clearance larkin charts and lots of uh they would lots of uh you know i guess you could say like uh they would have these like week or two week long bible studies that they would you know go through all the prophecy texts and try to break that down and say like oh and in your guys's life so this is what they told a lot of i guess millennials you could say in your guys's lifetime christ is going to rapture you know everyone out because you know this is the last generation because in this generation and, you know, they would go down that whole rabbit hole.

And, you know, you keep telling that to a generation over and over and over again. And you keep being wrong about it. Eventually, you kind of have, like, the legacy media effect that we see now is that people don't buy it. And, you know, they don't buy the theory. But what you end up having each have people just straight up leaving the church, which is even a bigger problem than bad theology in itself. sure and the whole pre-tribulation

rapture thing just ignores 2,000 years of history I mean when is God spared us from suffering I'm we've suffered this whole there's some dark times in history so I mean it's one of those things

where you know it's anytime anything starts going wrong it is it is yeah so I mean I'm not the I'm not like a timeline

historian on this. I'm more of a narrative. I look at the whole narrative. So after 9-11, you know, you basically people start having conversations about, you know, this, you know, who are these people that we're going to war against? Okay, so we're going to go to war against Islam. And it would always be brought up in churches. And this is one of the, one of the main reasons why, I mean, I left Protestant. when I did was because no one could agree on anything. I mean, I was in a church to split twice in like six months. And this is a 1689 Reformed Baptist Church. It's still a common Baptist elf.

Yeah, and I'm a Baptist, so that's a common Baptist owl. Yeah. That's, you know, they'll split over the carpet color. And I was going to a PCA seminary, and, you know, I, I believed that, you know, at least there was some kind of order there that they're, I don't know. I didn't put it this way. The seminary I went to was attached to a very huge church, and I didn't see them having splits.

They just seemed to be growing at the time. But I still was just watching all this happen. And after 9-11, it just made no sense to me because people started saying, I'm going, okay, well, I mean, I've studied Islam a little bit. There really didn't seem to be a problem with Islamic terrorism up until like the late 19th century, the early 20th century. And why did that happen? Well, because a certain group started moving back. I mean, they were still, they were there.

They had been, there had been Jews in Palestine the whole time. they've been living there. I mean, I've read diaries of of rabbis from like the 1700s talking about how you know, it was great that they could on the on the Sabbath they could leave their front door open and everybody was getting along. But then a certain group with a certain ideology started moving

there and all of a sudden violence started happening. And I'm like, I wonder if that violence would have happened. if those people didn't move there. And I started asking those questions and people started going, well, why are you blaming them? They were just moving there. There was no one there. And I'm like, well, wait a minute.

You just said that there was violence because the people there were violent. And that's when it's like, well, this doesn't make any sense. You're instinctively defending this one group against the other group. And I can understand if you don't like either of those groups or if you're, like both of those groups, well, why are you choosing one group over the other? And why is it the group that actually move there, that they're the ones that you're,

that move there and push people off the land? Why are you defending them? Well, they're God's people. And the way, I actually had a pastor tell me this. I had a Baptist pastor tell me this. The way we know the. Bible is true is because the state of Israel exists. And that's when I was like, you know what?

I'm out. I'm done. Well, Pete, I think that your instincts about some of the influences in the origins of this movement are correct. So Darby, who was the precursor to Schofield, was really working within a, it was a reactionary movement. Because of some Jews had been admitted into Protestant universities in these Old Testament biblical studies departments. And this gave rise to the higher criticism movement as this really started within a rabbinical tradition of questioning the veracity of God's word,

because for them, the Messiah hadn't come, and Protestants struggled with the question of Jesus said he was going to return and he didn't, even though those of us who come from a more preterist or partial preterist background would say, well, 80-70 was a fulfillment of his prophecy in Matthew 24 and a type of coming. Anyway, the Protestants because of a, and again, I'm a PCA Presbyterian just as background and subscribe to the Westminster Confession. That being said, Protestants were confused and didn't have a singular voice on the answer to these questions. And so these rabbinical traditions gained purchase in the early and mid-1800s and really gave fruit to this higher criticism move. of, well, the word cannot be trusted. And Darby was really a reaction to that. So the Jewish influence is huge here. And so the reaction took form of an answering in Jewish terms rather than in Christian terms.

And so, Pete, I think your instincts and study are right as far as the Genesis, pun intended. of what's going on here. So how do you respond to a higher criticism? You go and basically create a literalistic hermeneutic, which says not only is the Word of God true, but you flatten out all poetic references, all prophecy references, and so on and so forth. And you do so in kind of a kindergarten way.

For instance, you know, you get all the ruminations about 666 and the number of the beast, and yet that's just a reference to Solomon taking in, you know, not holding to his kingly limitations and taking in 666 talents of gold. All that becomes, is ignored, and you get this entire literalistic hermeneutic, which Schofield and the Philip partnering and, and piggybacking on the Plymouth Brethren really runs with. And then Ryey, the Ryeary Study Bible, which came out, oh gosh, late 60s, early 70s, Charles Rirey, who was a professor at Dallas Seminary, really ran with that.

So the Ryey Study Bible was hugely influential. So anyway, I just wanted to give some of that historic background and back. up what Pete was saying as far as the Jewish influence in the origins of this movement. Well, and between literal reading and literalistic reading,

you know, so it was the historic tradition, really, of the church and, you know, especially you see it in the Protestantism, that you are supposed to read the scripture literally. You're right to say that what the dispensationalists did was something different. So when the reformers, for example, were saying you need to read the scripture

literally, what they were saying is you should always read the Bible the way it's presented, like, in the passage you're reading. So, for example, if you're in a section that's poetic, let's say the Song of Solomon. If you're reading Song of Solomon, you know, it's actually not a literal reading to read that passage,

like, you know, literalistically. You actually should read it poetically because it's literally a book. Whereas the dispensationalist decided that no matter what the genre of the text was, it was all going to be interpreted sort of, like, like you said in a sort of childishly, you know, flat way of looking at it so that it was

it was actually ignoring the way the Bible was telling you to read it and they just thought they would read everything just at face value without any genre consideration. And so I'm glad you brought that up. That's an important distinction. Well, you know, the questions that were brought about, you know, you had the you know schlahermacher ended up being kind of the end of this with the and the quest for the historic Jesus and all that was this again this higher criticism movement that said you couldn't trust your Bible when we know again that the Bible is the most attested to work of ancient literature there is but but there were all these questions that were brought up that that suddenly seminary students were thinking they didn't have answers to. And this dispensational hermeneutic comes along and says, oh, you don't know, we've, not only,

not only do we have the answers, you don't even really need to, it's just this, this hermeneutic that a middle schooler could understand. Again, going against exactly what Pete says that, you know, the basics of the gospel can be understood by a young, by a child. There's a Redeemer King who loves you and has shown his love by dying for you. But the depths of Scripture, you can never fully, one person could never fully get their arms completely around and understand the depths of. So it was an attempt, again, in a simplistic way to provide a means to answer these questions.

But again, I think within a, the framing instead of being Christian was Jewish. And what I mean by that is that it sought to answer the questions that were originally raised by a group of liberal rabbis. And the vast majority of the church, well, the believing parts of the church said, well, we don't, you know, What's going on in Germany? We can kind of ignore that right now. But it really took hold in American seminaries in the late 1800s. And so this was just an answer to that. And so we can have, even though it's crazy, you know, Darby and Schofield and Rirey and Walbert and Zuck and so on and so forth,

you can understand where this movement came from in the sense of people weren't getting, their pastors were no longer saying, of course you can trust your Bible. Of course you can trust your Bible. And so, you know, I have a, I have some sympathy for the pew sitter who gets, who got, you know, sucked into this. even with you know because billy graham let's let's remember that billy graham was a member of a dallas church i'm in dallas by the way so i i know a lot of these uh people uh somewhat closely billy graham was a dispensationalist wrote the book approaching hoofbeats which in the late 60s had a huge influence on baptist preachers so well i think you know the one thing that we haven't

talked about, which I think is really the thing that I can't believe people accepted, even people who nominally understood scripture, was, you know, the whole plan B

that Jesus came to the Jews, the Jews rejected him, and he's like, okay, so I'm going to go to the, you guys are on hold over here, and I'm going to go to the Gentiles, and there's a future thing. That's crazy. No one. No one. And, you know, and I mentioned, I've mentioned that to people who, you know, they're like, well, you know, I grew up in a Schofield church, but I don't believe that.

And I'm like, it doesn't matter. What you, you're the spirit of it. You know, it's like people who, Americans, most Americans have never read the Constitution. But because they grew up here, they've, it's been put into them. they've adopted its values, its beliefs by osmosis, you know, the people who have been here for, you know, people who've been here for generations. His family has been here for generations. Even if they don't know it, it's just, it's, it's become a part of us. It's the same thing in churches.

You don't have to believe it. If you are, if you're sympathetic to, well, you know, Israel is the modern state of Israel has something to do with the prophecy of the Bible. and you can make that claim. But if you say, I know exactly what it is because, you know, because of these notes here in this Bible, it told me, well, you have no legitimacy. And I'm not saying that, you know, you can, just because something came 1850 years later that it's not true,

but, you know, you really have to think that, in a time, in centuries, when all, when there were monasteries and all monks did, all their job was to do was to study the Bible and read scripture, they would have saw this. Someone would have saw this. Someone would have came up with this, something even close to it, but they didn't. And when you take into consideration political, you know, the politics of, the last 150 to 175 years, I think it's a lot easier to see exactly where this came from. It's hard to explain that to somebody who's bought into this unless you can explain it from a political,

from a geopolitical standpoint, because it's just geopolitics. Yeah, so would you say that the political route, you know, so like you have this dispensationalism and it's been kind of brewing in the background. Mostly seen among fundamentalists. That's actually a conversation worth having. I mean, probably not tonight just to stay on track with time and everything. But, you know, the dispensationalism stuck around because the fundamentalists latched on to. But the fundamentalists were also at one point basically the only Christians in America

because everyone else, you know, like all the other liberal denominations were completely falling apart and losing orthodoxy. That's a different conversation. But anyway, so it's been brewing in the background. would you say that it's the sort of tri-faith alliance that sort of arises in neoconservatism that sort of brings, or maybe not even brings that theology, but sort of realizes that that theology is a useful tool to get, you know, an untapped kind of fundamentalist voter base to agree with them. And then that's maybe when dismissationalism started to make a presence in national politics. What decade, what decade are you looking at?

I would start probably with the 40s. I would say that's when Buckley started consolidating his guys. Yeah, I mean, you see the birth of neoconservatism right around the time of the doctor's plot in Soviet Russia. Remember, right after the founding of Israel, the Soviets were very, very friendly with Israel. And then there just seems to be some kind of, there's some kind of split that seems to coincide with the, with the doctor's plot. We don't need to get into that, but they,

Jewish doctors, they thought Jewish doctors were plotting, and they executed them all. And, yeah, I mean, well, geopolitics sort of starts, well, and that's, and I was saying to go back, sorry, I can rabbit trail very easily. that's when you see the birth of the neoconservatives is when Russia is no longer friendly to Israel, then the neoconservatives come into existence, and they're not friendly to Russia anymore.

Because, you know, let's face it, I mean, I think anyone who knows and anyone who follows my work knows that what Bolshevism was and that up into a certain point, Basically, there was an over representation in leadership there. And then all of a sudden, once the state of Israel, you know, Stalin always had this problem with the Ospera groups. Theospera groups that had someplace else to go. That's why they executed Germans. That's why they executed Lithuanians. That's why they executed Poles.

Once Israel was founded, they tried to be friendly with them for a while. And then it was like, well, and it wasn't like they kicked Jews out of Russia, but they definitely. had control over their population, much like Putin has control over his population now. But yeah, it seems like that's when you start seeing more of that influence, because if you look at the fathers of neoconservatism, you know, it's kind of hard not to notice a pattern there.

And even the, you know, the wasps and the goyam that were that were on their side. were very, very protective, which is why people like, you know, San Francis eventually later on, much later had to be kicked out, or if, you know, Murray Rothbard at some point made some reference that they didn't like,

didn't matter that he was a Jew. They had to, they had to denounce him. So, yeah, I mean, I think that the, there's a lot of there's a lot of things that surround the rising of neo-conservatism but one of the big ones is the Jews

losing a lot of the power that they had in the Soviet Union and then from there on you see a real push and then you see in the 67 war the United States backs them doesn't fight with them obviously you know gets attacked a bunch of Americans get killed. Seventy-three war, there's no real, no pushback, no pushback. But, you know, when you really,

if you want to look at foreign policy, then you have to start coming forward to the 80s and you start seeing that there, there's a real switch to where, as it just seems like that first generation, the closer you get to 1988, the more the United States government gets, people are behind Israel and you know then you can look at Reagan's cabinet and see you know who who's making

that up even if they're and I'm not saying that they're all Jewish but they were definitely all what you would call neoconish so everybody there oh yeah the question on that

so you see the neocons increasingly coming to power through Reagan's administration. Then of course, Reagan is very popular and then he achieves a major foreign policy victory over the Soviet Union.

These neocongue guys stick around. They're obviously still, you know, in full force when Bush 2 is there. Now that we're sort of moving away from neo-conservatism, do you foresee this sort of emphasis in our foreign policy saying the way it is? Do you think

it'll just morph into whatever's coming next, do you think there's a substantial there's sort of a substantial decrease in their influence? I'm not sure what you think the future of this will be. What do you think this sort of foreign policy commitment to Israel is permanent or whether

it'll sort of go out with the neocon? The immediate impulse is to always believe that whoever's in power and has the power now will always have the power. But like my buddy, Luthemflar, who's in the chat right now, we were talking about last night,

is that one of the reasons why you see why you've seen so many Zionist Jews in the United States all of a sudden become anti-immigration is because the bigger groups, the more groups you have coming in from the outside, the more groups you're going to have vying for influence. And I would say that one of those groups that I think is even more, or is as power hungry, is as nepotistic, is as inclusive is Indians. and I don't, it's funny that when all of this was happening during over Christmas, you didn't really see people, a lot of them speaking up against H-1B, but you do see them speaking up against, you know, anyone who, any group that may have a poor

opinion of them. Well, why would you speak up against a group that has a poor opinion of you other than just survival just general survival, and that's your history. Everyone's oppressing us. If you say anything bad about us, that means you just want to kill us and program us. Well, because if you let in groups that are inclusive, they can push you out of power. And I know that that's impossible for people who are not intelligent enough to handle the JQ, who run around on social media and just basically.

call anybody who disagrees with them a Jew to deal with. But there is a chance that these people lose their influence and their power. It happened in the Soviet Union. It can happen anywhere. Isn't that that's declining the support for, I guess you would say, the modern nation state of Israel. I mean, if you look at some Pew research of, you know, young people, and I think it's even young people that attend church at a regular basis, even if they go to a dispensational church, they don't buy that ideology anymore. So, I mean, where do you, in one hand,

I was talking to a friend about this here the other day. In one hand, you had a lot of subversive behavior going on with undermining Christian values in the country, which was arguably their biggest defense, right? So now we're here in, you know, 2025. they don't have that support anymore because America largely isn't a, I'll use the term cultural Christian country anymore, because a lot of people have walked away from the faith because of these issues that we've discussed about. But now you have, where they're kind of in this like catch 22 where they've undermined their biggest support and their biggest base. and now they don't really have that same power that they used to have.

How do you think they're going to navigate from that kind of perspective now? Well, it seems like they're going to do it by trying to get laws passed that make it illegal to even talk about them. And that can only backfire. you know, one of the things that when you, you know, one of the problems that I think that they're starting to realize, and especially since October 7th, is that you had a whole bunch of them running places like the Frankfurt School, writing books like the authoritarian personality, coming up with curriculums that white people are oppressors and colonizers. And while the one, I guess the one thing that they forgot to teach, them was it Jews aren't white. So they look upon them as colonizers and oppressors now.

And now they're backpedaling. You'll hear people like Christopher Rufo who will talk about how whose whole career is about how terrible the college campuses are and the woke and all of this stuff. And he'll praise Jewish academics on college campuses. where do you think this came from? I mean, and I have find a hard time to believe. I have a hard time believing he doesn't know that. I'm a hard time believing the James Lindsay's of the world don't know that. So they're just going to call people woke right or anti-Semites if you bring it up.

If you point out that, you know, what did, what has Dennis Prager said? he said that atheist Jews and I won't just use the one you know like 12 second clip that I use all the time but there's another clip of him out there explaining exactly how this happened is that

atheist Jews once they abandon God they you know they took the whole Tikun Olam Olon thing where you're oh heal the world and they did it using secular things so they came up with all the isms communism and feminism and all

things to heal, well, the more people who realize that, the more people are going to start questioning it, wait a minute, why do you like this? And as Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson says, he's like, look, my, my, you know, my dentist is Jewish. When I talk about this, I'm not talking about my dentist. I'm talking about the fact that there are thought leaders out there, quote unquote thought leaders and whole schools that 80% to 90% of them are Jewish. And you have to ask yourself, okay, well, if 80 to 90% of them were Chinese, you might have to ask a Chinese question. What cause is, why are Chinese people overrepresented in what seemed to be revolutionary and, anti-American, anti-American civilization, anti-Western civilization teachings that basically destroy, you know, what our ancestors and, you know, people who have been here longer than my ancestors have been here.

How come they're destroying it? Why did these Chinese, what are these Chinese, you know, why does Biden have 457 Chinese people working in the executive, in the executive? and you're just not going to be able to get past this. And, you know, the whole dispensationalism thing is falling apart with boomers dying out. And, you know, if basically in, I forget what Luthemple and I, the numbers we were using yesterday, but, you know, by the time the next election rolls around, there'll be like 10 million boomers will be dead. And that's like pretty much 10 million white people are gone. It's like, okay, well, what does that do?

It reduces the demographics here. If you don't start changing things, it's going to get our demographics in the other direction. But also, those are the, those boomers are the ones that are mostly pro-Israel and pro-Zionism. So, I mean, I'm just trying to figure out exactly, you know, how to navigate the next, how to navigate the next, you know, four, eight, twelve years because, you know, I, people of that, you know, people,

Trump is just this gigantic Zionist. He's a Lekudnik. And I'm like, Trump's a boomer. He has Jewish friends. He's been dealing with Jews his whole life. He's been cheated by Jews, and Jews have made him a lot of money. And Jews have given him money.

I don't believe that he thinks that, like, Israel is this place that has this this place in eschatology and that Jesus is going to come back because of this place but I think he sees it as as the way most boomers see it. Boomer truth. Post-war consensus. I mean, he still panders to black people that hate him.

So, I mean, when it comes down to it, I don't know how much dispensationalism actually means anymore. And I think it's, I think that it's going away, that its influence is going away. But the political influence that was allowed because of dispensationalism, that's not going away. And we're just going to have to figure out a way to navigate it. And eventually it's either going to die on its own, which I think that's exactly

what's going to happen. if you believe in the 80 year cycles coming up on 80 years in a few years, or it's just going to implode. Because that's what always happens. They always just reach too far. So, yeah, I mean, I don't have all the answers, but I think I have a, you know, I think that, you know, at the old glory club, we've tried to figure out a way to,

navigate what's coming and the potential for things to come, and that's to collectivize just like they do. And, yeah, I mean, that's the only way I really see forward. Yeah, that's a good perspective there. So, I mean, what you're saying is basically, I mean, we're kind of living in a cultural dispensational kind of framework time where, you know, politics are still looked through the lens of, even if these boomers don't go to church or, you know, their kids don't go to church.

These values have been passed down somewhat memetically to their children, especially if they're kind of in the D.C. Beltway where they're still going to have kind of this overlay framework that they're going to still view everything. I think you kind of see this with guys, you know, on the, I don't want to call them neocons. I think that words, I mean, they kind of are, but at the same times they're not. But you kind of have this like multiple right factions where you've got the libertarians, you've got more of your dissident, paleo, alt-right conservatives. And then you have this kind of like this, this MAGA right, I guess you want to call it, where, you know, there's still, you know, rapture ready, you know, at any moment now. You know, we're basically spared for the next four years as long as Trump's in office.

and they're just, you know, coasting it out right now through the retirement. But like you said, if 10 million of them, you know, pass away off the scene here in the next, I don't know, eight to 10 years, that's going to really shape the, start reshaping the kind of political landscape. I mean, you've got to think the boomers have also basically controlled politics since they were a voting age. They've been the largest voting bloc. and I would say probably still the largest voting block of people that show up to actually vote at the polls. That's one thing that they usually don't miss is to go out and vote. So, I mean, that's something that I can, you know, I see there. I don't really know what you want to call the kind of the MAGA-R-Right kind of people,

but, I mean, there's fracturing camps in there. And sometimes it seems like there's some kind of concertive effort in the last couple of weeks where it's like this, you know, undying loyalty to, you know, the 1948 state. And it's hard to kind of tell what direction that's going to shift. If it's going to, you know, it's a fight that we're going to have over the next four years here with this administration internally within the right. Well, yeah, and you have all these factions on the right.

And, you know, if you study the Spanish Civil War, the reason why they, the nationalists, Franco side, you know, teaming with the Falun Gay and teaming with the Carlist, were able to win and be cohesive is because they all basically knew who the enemy was. They, it was clear who the enemy was. problem you have what the factions on the right is at this point a lot of people look at the right and see the enemy embedded in the right so it's like

how do the factions of the right come together when people look at the different factions and they don't trust each other so either one of those factions is going to rise up and be powerful and is going to, you know, take over and be the dominant group,

or you're going to have to have some kind of volcanization. And, you know, whether it be the fact that or the jury, you're just not going to be able to work together with people who that you just feel like you cannot trust. you know, there aren't going to be, I'm going to say this, and it'll piss people off. There are not going to be mass deportations back to Africa. The United States is not going to be 109 or 110. I think Maldives just became 110.

It's not going to be 111. They're not even going to get the illegals that are here now are not going to be mass deported. It's not going to happen. So you're going to have to figure out how you're going to survive, how you and the people who you share your values with, you're going to thrive and survive within this soup of hell. You have to go make your own heaven within it. Because all of those fantasies you have,

are just fantasies. They're the same fantasies libertarians have when they're like, you know, every country in the world is just going to adopt Bitcoin as their reserve currency, or just end the state, bro, or just end the Federal Reserve, or just end government schooling. Those are all fantasies. They're the same fantasy.

And when you're sitting there going, oh, we're sending them all back to Liberia. Oh, we're deporting. every Central American and South American out of here. Oh, we're deporting all the Indians. Oh, we're deporting. Now, sorry. Sorry to burst your bubble.

It's not going to happen. You're going to have to figure it out on your own. You're going to have to figure it out with, you start with yourself, you strengthen yourself as much as possible, and then you look for like-minded people, and you figure out a way not only to survive, but to thrive. And until you do that, everything that you have in your head about how this country is going to go back in time is just a fantasy. It's not going to happen.

Sorry. Well, and hopefully the Old Glory Club can fill part of that niche. You know, you're not going to get, you're not going to get 100 million people to join the Old Glory Club. you know, that's really not scalable. But it is sort of a stab at accomplishing that, getting people who are of a like-mind who have similar goals. Coming together and trying to build something. And, you know, networking is one of, you know,

people love to hate on it because it's kind of a business buzzword. But networking is the way you start building a bigger project. On that note, Pete, we thank you for coming and speaking to us tonight. I know it's getting close to 930, so we, you just start winding down about this time. Do you have any final thoughts before we do our plugs and head out? No, no, thank you for having me. I really appreciate it.

And, you know, really think, start thinking realistically. Start preparing, start preparing for the worst, but also having a plan to thrive. There's no reason, you know, When you look at, when you look at oppressive regimes of the past, especially the 20th century, there were people who were thriving in it. They were thriving in them. Why? Because they figured it out.

Figure it out. Stop living in fantasy land. That's why I'm not, that's why I had to leave libertarianism. Because it's, I saw it as wrongly a more, like academic right wing, you know, have all the answers, be able to just say everybody sucks and explain why and there's why you're wrong and everything. None of that matters.

What matters is what you can do for yourself and what you can do for those that you share values with. Anything else is just wish. It's you're hoping that somebody gets elected into Washington, D.C. And turns this whole thing upside down. I mean, there's a ton of reasons why that's not going to happen. And we can do another space on that sometime. And I'll go into some not only practical reasons,

but some metaphysical reasons why that won't happen. Well, and that would be a good topic for another space. And it is good. And we thank you for bringing a little dose of clarity. towards the end. Yeah, people on the online right like to engage in fantasies, but fantasies are counterproductive, really just an active waste of time. And so it's good to be level-headed about it, not get discouraged to be level-headed and then, you know, be an adult and make responsible decisions for you and then those around you to the best you can.

Well, it's not black, it's not black-pilling. It's figuring out what the reality of it is. and then just saying, okay, this is what I need. Now I know what I need to do. The hardest part is figuring out knowing what you need to do. You just have to figure that out. Yeah, I mean, black peeling is just about giving up. That's really all it is. Being realistic is the first step in just being a grown-up,

really at the end of the day. And I mean, we just, you know, and people on the right, you know, we do need to add some movement kind of grow up, so to speak. Like I was saying, hopefully the OGC plays an important role in that. I'm confident it is. That's why I joined. That's why our officer joined. All our members joined.

You know, hoping to make a meaningful difference in our state and then in the country as a whole. Yeah. And I think that I think we're down the right path for that. And, you know, the one thing I hear is, well, what are you guys doing? Well, if you're not in the club, we're not. I've got to tell you. Sorry. Yeah, that's the whole point. Join us and sit. You'll find out.

Yeah. Thanks, gentlemen. I appreciate it. Oh, yeah. Well, before we go, we do have some plugs, as is becoming our tradition. We do ask that you follow this week's

guest. We have Pete Kenyonez and at Peter R. Kenyonez. That is his ex-handle. Also, we had a guest speak up, Ronald Dodson, that's at Ron Dodson. We recommend you follow him as well. Of course, we recommend you follow the NGS.

That's at O-B-E-D-T-S-T-N. Of course, you can follow the officers as well. For membership inquiries, we do ask that you reach out to us either at the Nathaniel Green Society of Protonmail.com. You can also DM our account if you would like to, but the email of the year. Or if you are not in North Carolina, and you'd like to learn more about the Old Glory Club,

please go to the old glory club at gmail.com. Also, we would like to plug our OGC affiliate out, which is the nicotine pouches. I've had them, and they are very good, and everyone I've heard speak of them speaks highly of them. So please buy out. And finally, we do want to wish you a good evening. We will be back at 8 p.m. next week, same time,

and we'll have more good guests and more good topics. So thank you. And if officers, if anything they want to add, go ahead. But if not, I think we'll go ahead and head out.