The Pete Quiñones Show - Pete Reads 'Coup D'état' by Edward N. Luttwak - Part 11, The Finale - w/ John Fieldhouse

Episode Date: September 21, 2024

53 MinutesPG-13Pete continues his reading of Edward N. Luttwak's "Coup D'état. "In this episode, he welcomes back John Fieldhouse to comment on the remainder of chapter 5, completing the reading. Antelope Hill - Promo code "peteq" for 5% off - https://antelopehillpublishing.com/FoxnSons Coffee - Promo code "peter" for 18% off - https://www.foxnsons.com/Coup d'ÉtatPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Welcome everyone back to the finale, Part 11 of Kuday Ta by Edward Lutvach, and John Fieldhouse is here to finish it up with me. How you doing, John? Doing well. I think we're both ready to get this damn thing over with. Yep. Let's kill this and move on. All right. Just going to start reading. Let's go. Heading, the immediate post-coup situation. Once our targets have been seized, the loyalist forces have been isolated, and the rest of the bureaucracy and armed forces have been neutralized, the active and more mechanical phase of the coup will be over.

But everything will still be in the balance. The old regime will have been deprived of its control over the critical parts of the mechanism of the state, but we ourselves will not yet be in control of it, except in a purely physical sense, and then only in the area of the capital city. If we can retain our control over what we have seized, those political forces whose primary requirement is the preservation of law and order will probably

give us their allegiance. Our objective, therefore, is to freeze the situation so that this process can take place. Until the actual execution of the coup, our aim was to destabilize the situation. Afterward, however, all our efforts should be directed at stabilizing, or rather restabilizing it. we will be doing this at three different levels. A, among our own forces, where our aim is to prevent our military or police allies from usurping our leadership. B, within the state bureaucracy whose allegiance and cooperation we wish to secure, and C, with the public at large, whose acceptance we want to gain. In each case, we will be using our leverage within one level in order to control the next one,

but each level will also require separate and particular measures. Yeah, about that. There's, I would say, two things. Number one, traditional military operations, we always say the most dangerous part when you're conducting a direct attack on an objective is right after you seized it. Because at that point, the adrenaline's down. You start having physical fatigue set in, but you haven't fully consolidated the target. So it's really easy for somebody else to come along and attack you and drive you off the objective.

at that point. The second one is, I've heard it described anytime you're having a takeover of authority. The best analogy is probably the call of a while, the chapters where Buck takes over leadership of the pack. So in the beginning, he is out, he's outrightly attacking authority. He's instigating insurrection. He's trying to create discontent. But once he's in authority, he has to crush all that, preferably with soft power. you are now the authority, so you have to act as an authority. A, among our own forces where our aim is to prevent our military or police allies from usurping our leadership. From your reading of history and studying some coups, how often does that happen? Keep in mind, coups can be hard to really analyze because most effective coups, you destroy the documents afterwards.

So the lead up is, it tends to be conjecture and it tends to be materials you have from the evidence remaining tends to be from Western journalists who not only are their biased, they're also oblivious anything that happens in the real world. But that tends to be fairly common, right? Because essentially you're having a coalition of people who are cooperating to achieve their objective. And every member of that coalition has their own idea of what should happen afterwards. So I'd say basically every coup is something like that. The question is who wins. New heading. Stabilizing our own forces.

During the planning stage, our recruits in the armed forces will be fully conscious of the fact that the success of the coup and their own safety depends on the work of coordination that we perform. Immediately after the coup, however, the only manifestation of all our efforts will be the direct force that they themselves control. In these circumstances, they may well be tempted into trying to start. coup of their own, and they could do this by establishing contact with the other military leaders we have recruited so as to secure their agreement to our exclusion from their leadership.

Apart from the dispersal countermeasures discussed earlier, our only effective defense will be to retain full control over all horizontal communications, or, in other words, to remain the only contact between each military leader we have recruited and his colleagues. This can sometimes be done technically by keeping under our control the actual communication equipment linking the various units, but this would only be effective in unusually extensive capital cities and would, in any case, break down after a relatively short period of time. Typically, we will need somewhat more subtle political and psychological methods to keep the various military leaders we have recruited, well separated from each other. This may involve promises of accelerated promotions to selected younger

officers who could not otherwise expect very rapid advancement, even within the limited context of those who have participated in the coup. It will also be useful to remind our military and police allies that their colleagues outside the conspiracy may try to displace them and block unless they, and we, form a tight and mutually supportive group. In general, we should ensure that all those who could pose an internal threat are kept occupied on tasks which, whether essential or not, will at least absorb their energies and that there are divisive factors operating between them. As soon as we begin to receive the allegiance of military and bureaucratic leaders, who were previously outside the conspiracy, our leverage with our military and police recruits

will increase very substantially. The problem of retaining control against such internal threats will, therefore, be largely short-term. As soon as our position has been established, our best policy may be to dispose of our dangerous allies by using all the usual methods available for that purpose, diplomatic posting abroad, nominal and or remote command positions, and promotions to less vital parts for the state apparatus. Because it is possible that an embryonic coup within our coup has existed within our forces from the very beginning, the general security measures we designed to protect ourselves against the penetration of the security. agencies will also serve a useful supplementary function. They will prevent the lateral spread of the conspiracy. If our internal security procedures are sufficiently good to prevent all contact between the separate cells, so that any infiltration by the security agencies is contained, they will also prevent the coordination of this inner opposition. It has been calculated

that in a defensive military situation, even if only 20% of the troops of a unit, are actively loyal, units concerned should operate successfully and perform their assigned function. There's a couple of things that are really important here. The first off, he talks about the need to effectively control lateral communication amongst your coalition immediately afterwards, which that's something I wouldn't have thought of, and that's a very great point because it makes basically you're trying to prevent, you know, your allies from coordinating around you. The downside of that, the difficult part of that, and the,

And again, the counterproductive part of that is effective militaries have huge amounts of lateral communication, horizontal communications. Very often they will have more communications horizontally than vertically because junior leaders are trained and empowered. I know empowered's a stupid word, but we can say empowered to exercise initiative in order to achieve their objectives, which means that by eliminating horizontal communications, no matter how temporarily, keep in mind, we are also harrowing. our own combat effectiveness. So it's something we need to be very concerned with, and it's part of why he emphasizes the need to consolidate power and move on, because we don't want to hang out in that situation for very long. Another thing he talks about ways you would eliminate either allies who could become a risk

or other people in the power structure who become a risk afterwards, and there's a tendency to immediately think, well, we're going to have a purge and we're going to kill them all. And not just morally, it creates huge problems with your legal structure because it basically undermines any faith in your legal structure. And it definitely harms the whole collective cooperation at that point. So one of the most effective ways to purge people, effectively purge people from an organization after something like that, is to promote them and retire them and maneuver them in a situation where they can't do things. you know, most militaries have academic posts, either at the military academy or higher command schools or sometimes even teaching at various level universities where you put military historians at the end of the career. All of those are great ways where you can promote somebody, you know, give them a nice,

cushy assignment into retirement, but while, you know, effectively purging them from the organization. So creativity matters and the big takeaway from Machiavillis the Prince is, you know, Sometimes you have to behave altruistically in order to get what you want from a power politics standpoint. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person.

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Review your home insurance policy regularly. For more, visit Understandinginsurance.I.E. forward slash underinsurance. Brought to you by Insurance Ireland. Stabilizing the bureaucracy. Our attitude toward the second level, the armed forces and bureaucracy, which were not infiltrated before the coup, will depend partly on the degree of control that we have over our own incorporated forces. Assuming that we have a reasonably firm hold over them, we should not try to extract any

early commitment from the majority of soldiers and bureaucrats, who's first information of our existence will be the coup itself. Not knowing the extent of the conspiracy, their principal preoccupation will be the possible danger of those of their positions in the hierarchy. If most of the officers of the armed forces or the officials of a ministry have joined the coup, those who have not are hardly likely to be rewarded subsequently by rapid promotion. If the soldiers and bureaucrats realized that the group participating in the coup was, in reality, quite small, they would also realize the strength of their own position. The fact is that they are collectively indispensable to any government, including the one to be formed after the coup. In the period

immediately after the coup, however, they will probably see themselves as isolated individuals whose careers and even lives could be in danger. This feeling of insecurity may precipitate two alternative reactions, both extreme. They will either step forward to assert their loyalty to the leaders of the coup, or else they will try to foment or join in opposition against us. Both reactions are undesirable from our point of view. Assertions of loyalty will usually be worthless because they are made by men who have just abandoned their previous and possibly more legitimate masters. Opposition will always be dangerous and sometimes disastrous. Our policy toward the military and bureaucratic cadres will be to reduce this sense of

insecurity. We should establish direct communication with as many of the more senior officers and officials as possible to convey one principal idea in a forceful and convincing matter, manner, that the coup will not threaten their positions in hierarchy and the aims of the coup do not include a reshaping of the existing military or administrative structures. This requirement will, incidentally, have technical implications in the planning stage, when the sabotage of the means of communication must be carried out so as to be easily reversible. Yeah, I was going to say on that regard, one of the interesting things in the NSDEP taking over authority in Germany, and how just because of my research currently, what was brought about or was brought to my attention is Reinhard Hydrick was known very much when he was made ahead of political police that he largely kept in charge the technical people, the skilled professional investigators in those agencies. he eliminated one or two major leaders,

and he eliminated any person he was seen as being actively opposed to the health and well-being of the German state. Generally, these are people who are closet undercover communists. But for the most part, he co-opted them because he said most of these people, even when there were his political enemies, were German patriots who really wanted the security of Germany. So if he could actually co-op them, he ensured that not only did they not, become punished as enemies of the new regime, but he actually gave the mistake in the new regime, to the point that Hydrox inner circle largely consisted of men who didn't join the SS until he made them join the SS. The information campaign over the mass media will also reach this narrow

but important section of the population, but it would be highly desirable to have more direct and confidential means of communication with them. The general political aims of the coup, as expressed in our pronouncements on the radio and television will help to package our tacit deal with the bureaucrats and soldiers, but its real content will be the assurance that their careers are not threatened. In dealing with particular army or police officers who control especially important forces or with important bureaucrats, we may well decide to go further in the sense that an actual exchange of promises of mutual support may take place. We should, however, remember that our main strength lies in the fact that only we have a precise idea of the extent of our power.

It would be unwise to enter into agreements that show we need support urgently. More generally, any information that reveals the limits of our capabilities could threaten our position, which is essentially based on the fact that our inherent weakness is concealed. Again, as in... Go ahead. No, I was going to say, like any clandestine event or activity, just like war itself. The goal is to know as much about your enemy as possible, while concealing as much of the facts about your situation from the enemy as possible.

Again, as in the case of our incorporated forces, we should make every effort to prevent communication between the cadres of the armed forces and bureaucracy outside our group. Such communication would usually be indispensable to those who may seek to stage a counter-coup. The ignorance of the extent of the conspiracy will discourage such consultations. it is obviously dangerous to ask somebody to participate in the opposition to a group of which he is himself a member, but we should also interfere with such consultations directly by using our control of the transport and communications infrastructure. New heading, from power to authority, stabilizing the masses.

The masses have neither the weapons of the military nor the administrative facilities of the bureaucracy, but their attitude to the new government established after the coup will ultimately be decisive. Our immediate aim will be to enforce public order, but our long-term objective is to gain the acceptance of the masses so that physical coercion will no longer be needed in order to secure compliance with our orders. In both phases, we shall use our control over the infrastructure and the means of coercion, but as the coup recedes in time, political means will become increasingly important, physical ones less so. Our first measures to be taken immediately after the active phase of the coup will be designed to freeze a situation by imposing physical immobility, a total curfew, the interruption of all forms of public transport, the closing of all public buildings and facilities, and the interruption of the telecommunication service will prevent or, at any rate, impede active resistance to us. Organized resistance will be very difficult because there will be no way of inspiring and coordinating our potential. opponents. Unorganized resistance is on the part of a mob will, on the other hand, be prevented because the people who might form such a mob would have to violate the curfew while acting as

individuals, and not many will do this without the protective shelter of anonymity that only a crowd can provide. The impact of our physical measures will be reduced outside the capital city, but to the extent that the capital city is to focus in the national network of transport and communications, both physical movement and the flow of information will be impeded. The physical controls will be purely negative and defensive in character, and our reliance on them could be minimal because their con-comitant's effect is to enhance the importance of the armed forces we have subverted. Our second and far more flexible instrument will be our control over the means of mass communications. Their importance will be particularly great because the flow of all other

information, notably social media via the internet, will be filtered or blocked by our controls. Moreover, the confused and dramatic events of the coup will mean that the radio and television services will have a particularly attentive and receptive audience. In broadcasting over the radio and television services, our purpose is not to provide information about the situation, but rather to affect its development by exploiting our monopoly of those media in the context of filtered or blocked social media. We will have two principal objectives in the information campaign that will start immediately after the coup, to discourage resistance to us by emphasizing the strength of our position, and to dampen the fears that would otherwise give rise to such resistance.

Our first objective will be achieved by conveying the reality and strength of the coup, instead of trying to justify it. This will be done by listing the controls we have imposed, by emphasizing the law and order, that law and order have been fully restored, and by stating that all resistance has ceased. One of the major obstacles to active resistance will be the fact that we have fragmented the opposition

so that each individual opponent would have to operate in isolation, cut off from friends and associates. In these circumstances, the news of any resistance against us would act as a powerful stimulant to further resistance by breaking down this feeling of isolation. We must make every effort, therefore, to withhold such news. If there is, in fact, some resistance, and if its intensity and locale, are such as to make it difficult to conceal from particular segments of the public, we should admit its existence,

but we should strongly emphasize that it is isolated, the product of the obstinacy of a few misguided or dishonest individuals who are not affiliated with any party or group or significant membership. When you read that, it suddenly becomes clear why that any kind of mass or any kind of local organizing against any kind of central government bullshit like the school system in Northern Virginia when they were organizing against trans activists who were, you know, raping their daughters or the stuff that's currently going on in Ohio against Haitian migrants, there's a reason why they first try to, you know, block any kind of discussion of that and then portraying. it in a completely different light, is they're trying to, above all else, making sure that people

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Get the facts be drinkaware, visit drinkaware.com. Well, also that, and in the process, they're demonizing that group. Exactly. People on the outside. Yeah, I mean, probably the biggest form of communication management, information management of your enemies is trying to control and dictate their morality. Yeah, there really is no better example right now going on than what's going on in Springfield, Ohio. Yeah.

When I was just reading this and I just passed this along to a friend to try and get some information on it, 24 houses were sold last year, three of them. One was valued at 18,000, another at 24,000, another at 48,000. another a 48,000. And each of these 24 houses, including those three, were sold for $1.6 million a piece. Jesus. So I'm at the point where I think even the migrant situation is there to try to cover up something else. It's helping.

It's a part of it. This is all a part of something. But apparently there is either some insane money laundering going on there, or something else and that's what we're trying to figure out this gets in the realm of conspiracy theory just because we have no hard evidence because again they're controlling what we have access to but uh one of the issues that's been brought up the fact that we essentially we're not going to have a collapse population wise but we're going to have a demographic crunch where you know our native population because of birth rates combined with aging we're just

can have a contraction in total population. Among other things, one of the quickest things that affects is housing prices, real estate, both housing prices and commercial. Elon Musk has pointed out that one of the biggest negative consequences in terms of the establishment of COVID is suddenly all of that commercial real estate that banks hold on their balance sheet as assets is basically valueless or is negative value. So the process of, you know, moving migrants in the U.S. No, that doesn't do anything for commercial real estate,

but it can make, you know, private real estate, residential real estate, increase in value just because you have, you know, suddenly an increased number of people demanding a product in a market that has limited ability to grow, but so fast. Yeah. Yeah, this is all a, you know, when you look at this, It's, um, Yaki talked about that from his study of history, it doesn't matter why, but whenever large groups of foreigners are moved into an existing location that has a high culture,

the existing, the existing population stops their birth rates decline. Yeah. As like, like something metaphysical, like it's like it's something metaphysical. or there's something happening there that basically causes that to happen when people see this influx, and then all of a sudden they stop having children. Yeah, that's an interesting point because that seems to hold up for whatever reason. When we're done offline, I've got a document for suggested next read that deals with this directly. Okay, cool. All right, let me, let's finish.

We can get this. You and I are definitely, you and I are definitely the rabbit trail kind of people. Yes. All right. The constant working of the motif of isolation, the repetition of long and detailed list of the administrative and physical controls we have imposed, and the emphasis on the fact that law and order have been reestablished should have the effect of making resistance appear both dangerous and useless. Then he just goes through a first communicate choice of styles, romantic, lyrical, messianic, unprepared, rational administrative. It's just different kind of, I guess this is different kind of styles that you would use to communicate with, communicate with the people to let them know what's going on and to seek to get them on your side. Yeah, that's what it looks like. And again, all the charts

he has are worthwhile, but none of them are really good for reading in this format. So for listeners at home, you can get this book for free any number of places and just look at those. Yeah. If you're reading along with this one, make sure to get the updated version, I believe it's 2016. Because a lot of this is not going to be in the original version. Yeah, the internet was not a big issue in the 1960s. New. No, he wouldn't have been talking about social media. Table 5.2, right?

Yep. The second objective of our information campaign will be to reassure the general public by dispelling fears that the coup is inspired by foreign and or extremist elements, and to persuade particular groups that the coup is not a threat to them. The first aim will be achieved by manipulating national symbols and by asserting our belief in the prevailing pieties. In the Arab world, the new regime will announce its belief in the Arab identity and Islam, where the Ba'ath Party was institutionalized, as in Syria, it would have been necessary to assert our loyalty to the true Bath, not the corrupted one of the deposed dictator.

In Africa, the new regime will announce its intention of fighting tribalism at home and racialism abroad. In Latin America, we need to secure social justice will be invoked. Everywhere in the third world, nationalistic rhetoric will be used in references made to the glorious people of X and the glorious land of X, which the last regime is degraded, above all, repeated denunciations of neo, and not so neo-colonialism are derogier. Such denunciations will be particularly important where there is a large, where there is a large foreign business enterprise operating in the country in question, the inevitable suspicions that the coup is a product of the machinations of the company can only be dispelled by making violent attacks

on it. These being verbal and not unexpected will pacify the public without disturbing the business interests and the attack should be all the more violent if these suspicions are in fact justified. While the religious attitude leads to the praise of the gods for one's successes and self-blame for one's failures, the nationalistic attitude is to attribute successes to the nation and to blame foreigners for its failures. Similarly, the chance and praise of the gods have been replaced by ritualized curses, variously addressed to different groups of foreigners and their activities. It's really odd that Litvak would be choosing foreigners as to scapegoat, isn't it? Just, there's nothing personal there, right?

There's a certain amount of projection going along. Thus for the phrase, the imperialist neo-colonial power block read the Americans, or the French, if it is spoken by Africans of their former colonies. Similarly, the phrase, Zionist oil monopolist plotters translates into Jews and Christians in the subconscious of the Muslim Arabs who make use of it. It still continues to be true. How could you argue? There may be a purely ideological element in these denunciations, but even in the 1950s, when the American extreme right used to denounce the international conspiracy of godless communism, it was, it is significant that they stigmatized it as un-American rather than anti-capitalist, which shall make use of suitable selection of those unlovely

phrases, though their meaning has been totally obscured by constant and deliberate misuse. They will be useful as indicators of our impeccable nationalism, and if that is not, in reality, our position, they will serve to obscure our true policy aims. The flow of information emanating from all the sources under our control should be coordinated with our other measures. The impositions of physical controls will be announced and explained, and the political moves to which we now turn will be suitably presented. Physical coercion will deter or defeat direct opposition, while the information campaign will lay the basis of our eventual acquisition of authority,

but only political means will secure for us a base of active support. Where the pre-coup regime was exceptionally brutal, corrupt, or retrograde, the leaders of the coup will have little trouble in gaining a generalized form of acceptance, Even then, however, the active support of specific groups can only be gained by political accommodation, i.e., by sponsoring policies to serve the interests of particular groups, thus giving them reasons for becoming committed to, or at least interested in, our survival. In some Latin American countries, for example, we could gain the support of the landless peasants by announcing our intention of carrying out a program of agrarian reform. In West Africa, we could announce our intention of increasing the prices paid to peasant producers by the cocoa marketing brand. In Greece and Turkey, where there is a heavy burden of agrarian indebtedness, we could announce

a general cancellation of bank debts. Each of these policy announcements will bind the interests of a large and politically powerful group to our government unless we are overtaken by other rival announcements, but it will also lead to the hostility of other groups whose interests are damaged by our intended policies. in Latin America, where the peasants would benefit, the landlords would lose. In Africa, the urban population would be the loser. In Greece, the taxpayer would bear the burden of agricultural debt relief. Thus, the backing of one interest group will generally have, at its comcomitant,

the loss of support of, or even actual hostility from other groups. Hence, it will be a good. Hence, it's an effectively anti- white American regime. Yeah, thus the backing of one interest group would generally have at its con commitment, the loss of support of, or even hot, yeah. Yeah, and it's why that this continued process and has been, part of this, the last couple of years has been the intentional purging of anybody who is to the right

of essentially George W. Bush from the American military. There hasn't been organized purge, but they're intentionally sidelining any kind of senior officers who would appear to have that kind of orientation. It's a way of furthering, you know, their security because they know that the American military is historically a very right-wing, at least informally cultural institution. And they know they're largely opposed to that. So they're trying to remove an opposing center of power. What about NCOs and down right now?

That becomes an issue. I don't really have a good feeling on that. Keep in mind, senior NGOs like the sergeant major levels basically go through the same level of review as general officers. Keep in mind then different subcomponents of each service are very different. Increasingly, the regular U.S. Army is a full employment program for black women. I will continue and just let that hang. Clearly, it will be necessary to estimate the net political support that, given policy announcement will degenerate. This will mean taking into account not only the political

significance of each group, but also the immediacy of its political power. In the context of a Latin American post-coup situation, for example, the goodwill of remote and dispersed peasants will not help us much against the immediate and powerful opposition of bureaucratic and military cadres. If on the other hand, our short-term position is strong, but we are threatened by the longer-term usurpation of power on the part of our military allies, our objective will be to create a counterweight capable, eventually of becoming a source of direct strength, a peasant's militia, for example. Thus, whether we opt out for a left policy of land reform and longer compassino support, or for our right policy of peasant repression and immediate landowner support, will depend

on the balance between the strength of our short and our long-term positions. The almost mechanical elements that are important in the special climate of the immediate post-coup period will distort the normal balance between the political forces of the country concerned. If, therefore, our short-term position is not fragile, we should repress the agitation of those forces that possess a disproportionate strength in the short-term, and concentrate instead on cultivating the support of those groups whose longer-term strength is far greater. An element in our strategy after the coup is halfway between the information and the political campaign, the problem of legitimizing the coup. Clearly, the coup is, by definition, illegal,

but whether this illegality matters and whether it is possible to counteract its effects will depend on the total political environment of the country in question. Reminders the United States of America is a product of two coups in a row. The secession from the United Kingdom, followed by the the overthrow, the articles of Confederation for a Constitution, which means if you win very often, you can legitimate what you've done and the fact that it was illegal, nobody's really going to care about. We have seen in Chapter 2 that in much of the world, except for the rule of law countries, the legitimacy or lack of legitimacy of the government will not matter greatly. For example, as of 2015, Italy is ruled by Mateo Renzi's government, whose ministers included young and attractive

of female parliamentarians of his own Partizo Democratic, as well as defectors from the Forza Italia Party of Silvio Berlusconi, who also promoted female parliamentarians so long as they were pretty, and members of several minor parties, giving Renzi a total of 395 seats out of 630, enough to rule. But all were elected, along with Renzi himself in 2013, when his party was headed by Pierre Luigi Bersani, not Renzi. In fact, Renzi only became the head of government by winning an internal party primary and then cutting a deal with Berlusconi.

Essentially, Italians ended up being ruled by a politician whom they never elected except as parliamentarian. But good. No, it sounds pretty, you know, pretty appropriate and pretty much our situation at the moment since we're probably about a 70% chance because of fortification.

But I was just going to say the fact he keeps harping on the fact they would only let female parliamentarian's in who are attractive, and that's got to be some Israeli projection, just considering their successful women politicians have not been. Yeah. You tell me gold in my ear wasn't a looker? It speaks for itself. But this in itself generates oppositions to the young and personal Renzi. First, what Renzi did as is allowed by the constitutional system in place, even though it allows a post-electoral primary that leaves most Italians unrepresented. Besides, in Italy, legality is, in any case, optional, especially in politics, with contempt for the law, much intensified by the transparently politicized prosecutions of Italian magistrates who openly consort in political groupings of their own, notably the left-wing Magistrate. Dysore Dmitratica.

As far as we are concerned, Italy is definitely not a rule of law country, and our illegitimacy will be easily swallowed if all else is in place. They're never going to forgive Titus, are they? Oh, well, that's what I was saying, increasingly, this sounds like the

United States. Yeah. Oh, yeah, so much of this right here. And even when he goes up here, when he says they were never elected and everything, I mean, that's just the administrative state. We just it's just different here. It's much bigger and much more spread out here. And I know a lot of people have tried to describe our government as being highly centralized. And I think it's just highly

decentralized. You have no idea who's in charge. Elements of it are. Yeah, even then, right, like a formally hierarchy state, one of the things I've heard those described as is polyarchies where, yeah, you have a central authority figure who can overrule lot of things. But even if they had the effective ability to make an exception, understand that human attention is finite. So they can only focus energy on so many things at once. So huge elements of a large bureaucratic state are going to be effectively decentralized to a lower level, even if they're authoritarian, just because that's the reality of, you know, human concentration. One way of legitimizing the post-coup government has already been mentioned in discussion of the

selection of the personalities to be arrested. The retention of the nominal head of state where such a constitutional role exists as our own highly nominal head of state as well. Just to point out, again, we know about monarchies, most of Western Europe as parliamentary states. The monarch's head of state, but they're not head of government. And the amount of authority varies from state to state. And, you know, so they're relative. So we tend to think of as monarchs as being powerless, even though very often they have more power than they exercise on a daily basis,

which is why there can be borderline civil wars in the 20th century when they actually did what they were allowed to do. But keep in mind, a parliamentary state that's a republic, you will have a president as head of state, along with a prime minister that's head of government. But in most of those states, the president is a meaningless, title and usually it's where you put a retired politician who's you know lucid enough that he

continued to receive you know state envoys and stuff and shake hands but doesn't actually have to do anything and it's very often not allowed to do anything on a routine basis from what i understand the um british system still allows for uh the monarchy to dissolve the parliament the parliament at any time and take over it does And, well, they're required within X number of days to actually call for an election and to also put in a cabinet in the interim. So they don't get to rule by personal rule for more than a couple weeks. But yes, they do have that authority. Was it Margaret Thatcher, you know, famously everybody calls her, you know, crazy because she asked Queen Elizabeth to do that.

But keep in mind, was it 10, 12 years before that, Elizabeth dissolved the parliament in Australia and calls for election. So it's something that's happened, not in mine in your lifetime, but definitely in the lifetime of our parents. And again, it depends from monarchy to monarchy. With some of these actually having huge amounts of authority in the field of where the military is concerned, believe it or not. In this way, the appearance of continuity will be maintained and with it an appearance of legitimacy. Where the head of state is not nominal, as in presidential regimes, other taxis will have to be used. the announcement of forthcoming elections or a referendum as a sort of ex post facto legitimization, or, alternatively, the coup can be openly admitted as an extra-constitutional intervention,

but one made against an unconstitutional regime. We have to eliminate Trump in order to preserve democracy. Yeah, I mean, that's basically what this is. I mean, we've seen this. If we haven't seen this action, we've done. definitely seen this rhetoric in our lifetimes. Yeah, I think we've seen everything except for the use of armed force. So everything but that last step of a coup, we've seen de facto occur in our lifetimes. One illegality will then be represented as being the cause of the other, but we shall

declare that whereas the illegality of the pre-coup regime was voluntary and permanent, only hours is necessary and temporary. Such techniques will be of limited value in conducting the political process is required to create a base of active support and to secure our authority because everything will depend on the specific political environment in which we shall be operating. One particular problem, however, requires further exploration. Recognition by foreign powers. Before we go too far, I was going to definitely emphasize the idea that a coup expressing itself is necessary and temporary.

Interestingly, enough, an effective coups, very often that is the case. One of the things that's been brought up about military governments after following a military coup and a coup is effective, very often one of the first things the military sets about doing that transfer doesn't happen immediately is going back to some kind of civilian rule professionally, some kind of semi-democratic constitutional rule because the act of actually running a state on a day-to-day basis where you have to take the best and the brightest out of the military and put them in charge of things like trash picks. up and making sure that, you know, the sanitation system works, is it undermines and degrades the ability of that military to fight because suddenly all of its leadership is more consumed with things like, you know, making the mail service run instead of preparing for war in the future. All right. So talking about the problem of recognition of foreign powers, this is almost always important, but for the poorest countries whose pay is real, what is that? Are you familiar with that term?

Pays Real? It's a French term. I can look it up. No, let's see, we can do it in context. This is almost always important, but for the poorest countries whose Pays Real lies outside their own borders, it will be a crucial problem. I would assume,

yeah, let's look that up real quick. Yeah, I'm looking up now. The real country is, now, okay, that was the name of a newspaper. That was Mara's newspaper also, but that's probably not what he's referring to. Translate. Real country, legal country, conversely. Oh, real country over the legal country. I would have to look, I'm guessing it's the case of

where the cultural and ethnic and national ties are, yeah, definition of a, you know, a community may not be, terminus with the state, which is a huge issue, at least in Western Europe, definitely a huge issue in Africa, where certain ethnic groups like Swedes and Fens cross both borders. So the question of, you know, one of the issues is you don't necessarily take control of a people when you take control of their country because, you know, a huge portion of their population lives right across the border and has effectively lived there forever. Right. Okay. Gotcha.

when much of the available disposable funds come from foreign aid both official and and via non-governmental organizations and when foreign cadres carry out vital administration technical and sometimes even military functions the maintenance of good relations with a particular donor country or country's concerned may well be a determining factor in our political survival after the coup are they talking by Ukraine here? 2016, he might be, but that would probably be too early. Keep in mind he is living as a strategic forecaster often in the service to the United States, so he's not necessarily going to be that blunt about American mistakes.

Correct. Premature recognition by a foreign power, i.e., recognition granted while the old regime still retains some degree of control, is becoming regarded as a form of aggression, and international law. Beyond that, however, recognition is usually granted even to very illegitimate governments after a polite interval if there are convincing assurances about their continuity in terms of foreign relations. These assurances are conveyed simply and publicly by formal announcements stating that membership and alliances and groupings will be maintained, that foreign agreements and obligations will be respected, and that legitimate foreign

interest in the country concern will not be harmed. Thus, the least, the least, the legalism. The leaders of Ghana's well-named National Liberation Council formed after the overthrow of the historic independence leader Nkuma, Krumah, announced that Ghana would retain her membership in the Commonwealth, the Organization of African Unity, and the United Nations, and would respect all obligations assumed by Enkrumah's regime. Similarly, Arab post-ku regimes habitually announce that they will remain in the Arab League, and Latin American regimes pledged to remain members of the Organization of American States. Far more important than these declarations is a considerable diplomatic activity that will take

place after the coup and sometimes even before it. The purpose of these diplomatic exchanges will be to clarify the political situation and nowadays to indicate, or to disassemble, the ideological orientation of the planners of the coup. Most countries of the world follow British diplomatic doctrine in granting recognition to regimes on the basis of their effective control of their territories, if only after a decent interval. At present, the rabidly Islamist AKP government of Turkey opposes the overthrow of Egypt's Islamist government by the armed forces, fearing that Turkey's armed forces might do the same, but does not withhold recognition. Turkey is a history of overthrow, the military overthrowing their government.

In any case, the doctrine of effective control is, as a very important. as flexible as definitions of control, so that recognition can sometimes be flexible if the pre-coup regime retains even a tenuous hold over some part of the national territory. I was gonna say- Good. Sorry, yeah, one of the funny examples of this

is the Spanish Civil War. Most of the world except the Franco regime as being the legitimate government of Spain within a couple years of winning. But if you did, and the communist Republicans of Spain continue to maintain recognized embassies in foreign countries like Mexico into, I don't remember what it was. It was like 20 or 30 years after fact. I think it was until the 60s in some places.

How shocked I am that it would have been Mexico. Yeah. After the necessary exchanges of information and assurances, the new government will usually be recognized. This will occur even if it's illegal. as an embarrassment, as in the case of the United States and Latin American coups, or if its ideological orientation, it's distasteful, as in the Ghanaian and Indonesian coups were for the Soviet Union at the time. Prolonged non-recognition as a rarity.

One example was to widespread refusal to recognize Madagascar's Hattor Autorite de la Transition. I'm assuming that that's French, but my French pronounce. is just awful. It's fine. The average person of Madagascar does not speak proper French

anyways. Which came to power, and Madagascar didn't they dodge a bullet? Which time? Oh, yeah.

Yeah. In the 1940s, they really dodged a bullet. Which came to power by force in 2009 and did not organize elections till the end of 2013. It did,

however, restored democratic rule in 2014. diplomatic recognition is one of the elements in the general process of establishing the authority of the new government. Until this is achieved, we will have to rely on the brittle instruments of physical coercion, and our position will be vulnerable to many threats, including that of another coup d'etat. And that is it. Yeah, I know.

And it's amazing how if a country, if there's a coup d'etat in one country, how it's almost like by magic, they would be very apt to have another one happen and pretty soon. Yeah, and again, that's part of the issue. Once you break the seal, as it were, as soon as you make it acceptable to have one, you've made it acceptable to have another one. So, again, that's a huge part of why legitimizing what you're doing afterwards is such a goal, you know, such an important part. It also goes further to explaining why, in an effective military coup, you know,

they want to get out of the governance business when they can. Well, I appreciate you recommending this and joining me because I just, there's a lot of books that I can read that I have the, I have the knowledge and the backgrounds of comments upon, but the historical knowledge that yourself and Darrell for one episode and Lafayette for one episode brought, but you for all the other episodes. I think it's invaluable. Sandbatch and Dark Enlightenment as well. Oh, Sandbatch and Dark Enlightenment, yeah. Yeah, through that episode, I had a lot of people reach out wanting to, recognizing what was happening and wanted to say hi. Just, and they'll say that they appreciate you,

appreciate you, each one of you individually. Yeah, I appreciate it. And like I said in the beginning, I mean, part of it's just the fact is a disabled veteran. veteran that they kept paying for college. So I kept going, especially since very often, they paid me more money as a stipend than what I would make in my daily pay. So I'm glad somebody's getting some value out of my higher education. All right. Well, I appreciate it. And I'll have you back on real soon to do this again. Sounds good to be, bro. Have you back on soon to do something other than a reading.

Okay. Let's have you back on and talk about some real stuff. Yeah, probably had to talk to Thomas and see how much we can go down rabbit holes at some point. All right, John. Appreciate it. Thank you. Anytime, brother.