The Pete Quiñones Show - The Life and Thought of Oswald Mosley w/ Thomas777 - Complete

Episode Date: October 16, 2025

7 hours and 4 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.This is the complete audio to the series exploring the life and work of British Union of Fascists founder, Oswald Mosley. Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Thomas, how are you doing? I'm doing it well, thank you. Awesome. Well, after finishing the California series and then covering the 1988 movie, Dennis Hopper movie Colors, for those of you who haven't heard and living under Iraq,

Thomas and I watch movies and comments on them and do our sort of own mystery science theater 3,000. And it is available on my website for a man beyond the wall.com forward slash movies. Links to all the movies we've done there. And right before that, we actually did Triumph of the Will, that 1935 Lenny Rife install. So there's some good stuff there. Go check it out.

All right. New topic. And this is one that I probably brought up a year ago, and we just decided to do other stuff. So the life and the thought of Oswald Mosley, where do you want to start? Mosley's background going back by literally four centuries. There's a lot of liminal events in British history. I mean, that's not just some sort of literary trope or something.

Like, do you understand where Mosley ended up? and why he took the path he did. Like, you've got to understand the trajectory of his family. Like, he wasn't an ordinary, like, a lesser noble or whatever. You know, it makes perfect sense why he established what became the only viable, like, fascist tendency in Britain. Because there were a number of them, and none of them gained any traction. Because the people at the helm were bizarre people.

who weren't plugged into the zeitgeist, or they were just, you know, or they were just half-ass Tories who had to have to admire them for Mussolini, so they, you know, they didn't like communism, so, like, oh, I'm a fascist, or, you know, they were, um, they were, um, these simple-minded people who were going to take it in by

Darwinist intellectual cultism like Arnold Lees and we'll get into that you know Mosley actually understood fascism and he actually understood like the historical implications of it

and like I said he had a storied family but like not in the way that people think you know like the kind of traditional and punitive description of his heritage is, oh, well, he was just lesser aristocrat, and as those people lost their privilege, they became

fascist. Like, that doesn't make any sense, and that doesn't really track. You know, um, Moseley was basically middle class. His family had a lot of money. They were incredibly wealthy for hundreds of years, but they weren't this powerful, like, noble house or something, you know, and the unreconstructed house at Commons, like, really until the middle of the 19th, century, you know, most of the UK had, like, no representation in parliament. And, uh, the House of Mosley, as it were, was one of those, was part of that unrepresented, um, demographic, you know, so they weren't, this idea that the Mosleys were, you know, these kinds of like, this kind of aristocratic faction in parliament,

trying to like deny people their, you know, being manumitted and given the franchise. Like, that's not what happened. Like, they didn't really have the franchise. You know, like, it wasn't. And to understand, like, where Mosley came from, like, you've got to understand that peculiar kind of localism

that emerged in England, like, specifically England. And, like, the Mosley's, they're, fate was bound up with clergy of the church of England and like the British military officer corps.

Like I was kind of like the such that they had like influence in their locale. Like those were really the people they indexed with, which makes perfect sense. But they had this basic mistrust like both of

parliament and of like traditional nobles. And that's like where fascism comes from. You know, I mean, like, this should be clear as day to anybody. Like, mostly wasn't a guy who followed fads, and he wasn't he wasn't

somebody who did stuff for clout. You know, I mean, obviously. You know, like, nor was he a guy who just, like, enjoyed being an iconoclast. Like, you believed in everything he was saying. And I think it's not just because, like, I'm an anglophone person. and I find Mosy to be the most relatable of, like, fascist leaders.

You know, Hitler was a messianic personage and almost like a great con. Like, it's hard to find people like that relatable. You know, the people like Kodriyanu were, like, Orthodox Muzahid. Like, it does, it's, you know, I find that to be, like, literally Byzantine, you know, but, you know, Mosley is a somebody, I think, who doesn't really get enough ink in America, like the British write about him all the time. It's usually punitive and stupid and simple-minded, but he's kind of ignored in the United States or such that he's granted any attention at all. People act like it was some, like, weird crank or, like, some, or some, or some, or some, like, some, some, or some, some, like, insignificant personage like George Lincoln Rockwell. Like they don't understand

they don't understand like where he was speaking from. The guy had tens of thousands of followers. And for, uh, for somebody, um, after, uh, after the kind of modern house of commons, after 1832, like after the Reform Acts, for, uh, for a true like, uh, got

revolutionary party, like upstart party, to get like 40 or 50,000 members. And for clarity, these are like dues-paying members. Like the UK has actual parties. It doesn't just have brandings. It's not like the Republican Party, which isn't an actual party. You know, and before Mosley, these, um, these schismatic, you know, kind of self-declared fascists and national socialists, they'd close. clock at peak like four or 500 dues paying members.

Like, most of me was a serious guy. And there's a reason why, you know, he was targeted the way he was. And there's a reason why, you know, he got an audience with Gerbils and some of these other third-to-right personages. He wasn't a joker. but um you know and also too like i it's not most of these counterfactuals there's some jumping around it but i'll get into the the more kind of coherent um narrative in a moment but a lot of these counterfactual um speculations about what would have happened and you know if

um ever the eighth hadn't abdicated and if the war party hadn't availed in the UK, or alternatively, if Sea Lion had actually been a serious we devised mission to conquer the United Kingdom, you know, by force

of arms, by the German Reich. Like, Moseley, absolutely, like, would have been the man that the Reich looked to, to, you know, to act as kind of like a proxy regime, you know, in no small measure.

because Mosley he wasn't really a fringe figure you know like he was like a very respectable guy you know like he became thinking of a fringe figure particularly after the war party was able to you know kind of shut down in the opposition you know in the House of Commons

as well as in the national media and everywhere else but you know what mostly was dangerous to the war party precisely because he he wasn't like this fringe character you know and he wasn't um

and he wasn't just like the sion of like a respectable family who went on some crazy lark you know like Rockwell or something like he was a serious fascist it wasn't um it wasn't um it wasn't uh

you know some kind of some kind of theatrical protist posture but uh like the background of fascism in Britain is strange um the first true like self-identified like British fascist party was literally like the British fascistee who then became the British fascist in 1923 like they they um they incorporated after the Muslimist march on Rome It was a lady who

formed the organization He was Ratha Winter and Orman Very strange lady Very much I mean how to be crass Very much kind of like a butcher lesbian I mean it's just like a fact

She'd volunteer And roll her one as an ambulance driver And she was under pretty heavy fire You know she was like a serious person But she was like this weird eccentric And she was born

to an office who stood with the Essex Regiment who was kind of like, the Essex Regiment was kind of the pride of like the British Army infantry for a long time. You know, and her

her mom was Blanche Simmons who was another aristocrat. Her maternal grandfather had been a field marshal you know these people were extraordinarily wealthy okay and she was kind of like the strange like lesbian daughter um she was like she actually was one of the founders for all practical purposes or like the scouting movement like the boy and girl scouts in britain um they call it something different i think they call it like the girl guides but you know so she was uh she was kind of like one of these um she was kind of this like rich kid or wrist aristocrat, you know, and like aristocrats do, like, you know, she, she was all about national service when the Great War came. But then she developed this hero worship by Mussolini,

which for context, you know, really up through the four powers packed, you know, really until the late 1930s, like Mussolini was viewed as like this kind of heroic personage in the UK. and it's considered this kind of like moderating influence contra Germany, you know, who really after, after Israelis tenure, you know, like we got into in our World War II series, you know, the Germans were cast in the most, like, in the blackest colors imaginable. but Mussolini wasn't colored the same way in British media, quite the contrary. And people like Rothera Orman, they basically admired Mussolini for his anti-communism. Like she was not a sophisticated person in any sense.

You know, which seems in Congress maybe, but there's something to the cliche of, you know, it's almost like Monty Python, like, these British aristocrats who actually aren't cultured and aren't educated. That's not just like a trope, or it's not just something that, you know, the middle classes, like, to kind of hold out as, as some, um, as some kind of, you know, slam on, on people who they resent for, for posturing as their betters.

you know, the, um, she was not, she was not an educated nor intelligent person in any real sense. And, um, so, like, her, her, like, fascist outfit, it was basically just like, this kind of, like, Tory, it was basically like this Mussolini fan club of, like, aristocratic Tories, you know, um, and, uh, she literally established this British fascist outfit. She placed an ad in what was then kind of like the dominant, like, right-wing alternative paper in the UK. You're just called the Patriot. You know, she said she was, like, looking for anti-communist partisans who wanted to, you know, basically, basically constituted the pressure group, you know, to force a more serious posture against the Soviet Union, which in, um, Early on, that was like a big rallying point of the Tories.

Is that like, well, you know, labor is going to, they're too soft on Sovietism. And this is like a fifth column in the empire and, you know, all this kind of stuff. So that was, um... Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite LIDL items all reduced to clear From home essentials to seasonal

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much later you know like a decade subsequent the most of the male membership of the British fascists defected to the BUF but by that point the

organization Ms. Orman's organization was kind of like existed in name only but just for context, I think it's relevant. The, and famously Mosley said,

Mosley referred early on to the British fascists as quote, three old ladies and a couple of office boys. And, which wasn't really inaccurate. The success of organization, not, it wasn't a success organization. I mean like linear, I mean in linear, I mean in linear terms.

I don't mean that it came from the same ideological persuasion. Or it had membership in common. The kind of subsequent iteration of a national socialist or fascist tenancy in the UK was the Imperial Fascist League. It was founded by Arnold Lees in 1929. People are familiar with Like our lineage, our lineage being people of the right. They probably know Lee's because it's an elderly guy, like, in the 50s.

And he made a habit of slandering Francis Perker Yaqui in right-wing press, despite having never met him. And by that point, Lease was a total nobody. And Yaki famously, he used to go around claiming that, like, Yaki was Jewish. Then he claimed that Yaki was part black. Then he claimed that he was an Indian, like an American Indian. And Yaki Fantasy said, like, I don't know who this camel doctor is. What's his name, Wouse?

And Leeds literally was a camel doctor. Like, he was a veterinarian, and his specialty was diseases afflicting camels. Like, I'm not kidding. And his claim to fame was that he'd met Julius Stryker during some lark to Germany. And Stryker was a crude guy, but Stryker also was like a cutting Saturday. and like a skilled artist and just like a tough bastard even though he was something of a

vulgarian and a dummy otherwise like Lee's had none of those skills and he had none of that insight like he was just a fucking idiot you know so Lisa's old thing was well because I know how camels breed

and I know how you know traits are heritable you know in camel population let's extrapolate, like, zoological principles, like, human populations. So the Jews are this, like, evil race, you know, and they have, you know, bad racial characteristics. And, you know, we need to breed the right kind of race. You know, just, like, abject, abjectly moronic bullshit, you know, reducing politics to the principles of animal husbandry.

With the Imperial Fathers in this league, they're like lasting legacy. They had an incredibly dope, like, heraldic standard. It was like the Union Jack with like a hack and cruise, like in the center in black. It like looks incredibly cool. But other than that, it was, uh, it was like an embarrassment. The BUF famously, uh, they shut them down. through a lot of ledgered man and through direct action. And one of the things Moseley did,

Mosley had a very gangsterous streak. B.U.F. black shirts. They dress up as communists. And then when the Imperial Fascist League, it'd hold meetings, they'd assault and, like, beat the fuck out of everybody. And then, like, Lee used to grow up saying, like, this was Moseley. And, like, Moseley'd be like, what are you an insane person? You got moved on by the Reds.

You got to, you got to, you know, provide better stuff. security for yourself. What's the matter with you? What kind of outfit are you? Which is kind of brilliant. And it's and it's gaslighting. But that was that was the Imperial Fascist League had like an outsized

profile in no small part because people like the board of Jewish deputies and some of these left-wing newspaper types. You know, they'd hold them out as an example. I mean, very much like today. You know, they hold them out as like, oh, we're being subverted from abroad.

You know, this is the German. This is the Huns trying to, you know, undermine and meddle in our affairs. You know, the, during a moment of, I guess, amicability. in 1932 when the BUF, and we haven't gotten there yet, but we will, in a minute, when the BUF was very much ascendant, they'd made something of a peace offering to the Imperial Fascist League by allowing their members to essentially patch over. You know, the Imperial Fascist League turned this down, and so Molesi returned to, like, having his people's like like smash them you know like it was um lees then and and and later in

in later in his life and i'm not going to dignify it by calling it a courier but he um as it's typical like today with like right wing schismatics he had like delusions of his own significance you know it's like this guy had a couple hundred members like the buf at twards was tens of thousand strong you know like Moseley in a moment of you know again like in a moment of charitable impulse like offered him

you know a chance that it kind of cloud and respectability and of course like what would he do like Lease turns it down only to some delusion that you know he was actually a relevant personage but um

but Lees like I said the reason why like he when Yaki went to Europe and Yaki famously approached Mosley himself and they didn't get along at all and Mosley very much was

a cold warrior by that point and I think there was some degree of jealousy of Yaki and his intellect but also resentment at the fact that he's like who the hell is this American trying to dictate you know to the European scene how how we should

do things and conceptualize, you know, theory and policy and praxis. But, um, you know, Leif's, uh, Lees was still kind of like floating around the fringes of, of the, you know, of the right-wing resistance, you know, um, because, um, even, even then, you know, like, uh, some of these marginal figures could kind of carve out some sort of niche. and that's exactly what he did. But getting the Mosley, the kind of, the fortress of the Mosley family,

it began with Nicholas Mosley, really. He was born in or near Manchester. That's not clear. But Manchester became the ancestral home of the Mosleys. Like when they acquired, their um their uh aristocratic pedigree and i'll get into how that develops in a moment but nicholas mosley was born on 1527 um and uh for a brief period he was uh lord mayor of london which is different than the mayor of london like the lord mayor it still exists although now it's large like a ceremonial office

the Lord Mayor of the City of London is like the administrator of, you know, what's now the financial district of, you know, the City of London. In those days, it had a directly military obligation. And Nicholas Mosley, during that time, Britain's main adversary, was Spain. And this was kind of the beginning of the Moseley family's involvement with affairs revolving around the security of the British Isles. ESB transformed how the country powered itself once. And now we're doing it again.

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And in 18, one of the reasons why the left hated Oswald Mosy so much. During 18th, during the Chartist riots in 1848, um, his great grand. grandfather and his great-grandfather's brother, they'd organize the, these strike-breaking attacks, like, on the Chartist and on, like, the 1848 revolutionaries. You know, like, the Moseley family, they, like, literally, like, went back centuries of them, like, crushing, like, left-wing radicals. You know, this became, like, their role, you know, and that started, really with

Nicholas Mosley's role as Lord Mayor, you know, um, and again, in those days, this wasn't just a ceremonial office, Lord Mayor of London. You know, he basically was responsible for planning and organizing, um, you know,

what amounted like a civil defense, a civil defense scheme of, an anticipation of, you know, a possible, like invasion from the continent. Okay. Um, the Mosley's became,

very, very rich. Manchester was a center of the wool trade and manufacture. Nicholas Moseley became a very wealthy merchant. And he became a member of the

worshipful company of cloth workers, which was basically like a guild and like a corporatist firm that set prices and established standards for the industry. You know, so he was very much like, like he was very much like a self-made capitalist, okay? And what he did with some of that money is for 3,500 pounds in 1596,

he purchased a lordship and scenery of Manchester. And this was easy to come by if you grease the right palms. Because Manchester, it was basically an unimportant market town. I mean, it became important economically because of a monopoly on the wool trade. But in terms of the way aristocrats, and this was still, this was before the Reform Acts that, you know, kind of transform the House of Commons into like a normal parliament. Like in those days,

this is the, this is, these are the days where you still had, like, you had like literally empty boroughs where like, you know, some aristocrat, like, you know,

dating back to like the 1100s or something. Like, he was able, like, monopolize, you know, an entire voting block in the House of Commons. You know, like based on some like ancient charter of some like then worthless land. So, I mean, there was no relationship between, you know, the, uh, the productivity of, of a territory and its representation in parliament. So if a guy like Nicholas Mosley, who's like just like some rich guy is like, yeah, I want to buy like a lordship in Manchester.

Like a house of lord to be like, go ahead. You know, like whatever turns you want, you know. But Nicholas Moseley was smart. among other things, like with this great wealth he'd accumulated. Not only did he like basically buy himself into a lordship, he hired Inigo Jones, who was at the time, like the top architect in England. And he hired him to build and design and build his manor house,

which is Hawthend Hall. Okay, now I think it's an art museum. It still exists. but that was like, that was like Mosley Manor essentially. Indigo Jones, he was the first, he wasn't just like this top architect in England,

but he was the first, he was really the first architect of the modern era to, like, employ the conventions of classical Roman and Italian Renaissance architecture, like in Britain. You know, since it was a big deal. and it was no small matter to have him design your manor house. You know, like this conferred a lot of clout.

For context, the Queen's house, well, you see one of the royal residences, it's in Greenwich, London. It's been repurposed a bunch of times, and it's obviously a historic building. And, like, it's no longer like a royal residence. but at the time it was, and he designed that. Okay, so, I mean, this was, this was a big deal. The, he also, he'd been involved in, like, designing stuff for the stage, and he was buddies with Ben Johnson, and Johnson was,

he's considered basically the most significant playwright other than Shakespeare. probably his most notable works are every man in his humor the alchemist bartholomew bartholomew fair um so you know this this is going to accompany that niggliz mozdy was keeping you know um and not i mean very deliberately too like when niggis moz he got married he got married in the city of london You know, he was obviously trying to, like, establish some kind of, you know, familial presence there. It didn't take because the Moleses ended up basically after his sinecure, like the Moseley's were once again, like, relegated to Manchester. But, you know, the aside from, like, their great wealth, the family managed to kind of skate on the club. on the cloud captured by the great patriarch Nicholas for a very long time.

And yeah, he, owing to his service as Lord Mayor, he was knighted by Queen Elizabeth I first. And subsequent to his knighthood, he was the High Sheriff of Lancashire. so he was an accomplished guy and this is a significant too because again this dude was an upstart capitalist you know like he wasn't really a noble and like that didn't really happen in those days you know he was one of the first to essentially like make that jump so

again um when you read uh when you read some of these like left wing histories um that deal with Mosley produced in the UK, I mean like they talk about him like he's basically some like lesser version

of King Charles or something who oh he became a fascist because he lost his noble type that's like that's nonsense like it's not what he was at all and frankly a man like that like such as the caricature is painted like wouldn't have been attracted to fascism in the first

place I don't think like it wouldn't it wouldn't track with anything but the like I mentioned a minute ago

the the chartist in the Peterloo Massacre the Chartist rise to the Peterloo Massacre These were and are going to held out as like the great sins like the Mosley family The Peterloo Massacre on August 16th, 1819 there was

this mass demonstration demanding parliamentary representation. It was basically a precursor to like the Chartist movement that kind of peaked in 1830s and it's kind of final it's kind of final zenith was 1848. But there was this crowd of like tens of thousands of people.

Obviously, the crown was terrified of some kind of Jacobin-style revolt. Cavalry assembled as well as, you know, chartered men under arms. This armed element assaulted the crowd, including like a cavalry charge, like dead into the center of it. a couple dozen people died, several hundred were injured. The Mosley family played a direct role in organizing the forces that suppressed this mass protest. and even into the like even into the late 1950s when Mosley was staging his comeback

you know this was uh, oh Mosley's most is the descendant of you know the the brutes of the Peterloo Massacre. It's really strange. But that's I mean that's that's kind of the way the UK is. the the moseley's started to lose interestingly they started to lose their influence in

Manchester after the after the reform of parliament really from like 1832 to like the 1850s you know the Mosley family was in a strange position. So in one hand, they'd made their fortune through industry, but they'd purchased a noble title. So in Manchester, local merchants and industrialists, they had to pay what was called a tollage to the Mosley estate. It amount of kind of taxed,

not just on goods entering the municipality, but if you wanted to make use of a, stall or a market space. Like you had to, you had to, like, pay rent to the house of Moseley. You know, um, leading the charge against this system were, uh, with a contingent of Jewish merchants in Manchester. Mosley's grandfather very much, this kind of like very, very hostile situation. to build between like the house of moseley and the manchester jewish community which is really

interesting um you know and that that that endured you know it uh and because the moseley's words and when they appealed to um when they when they appealed to the house of lords you know again um until the mid-19th century, Manchester didn't even have representation in the House of Commons. And then after it did, you know, basically, like, the true aristocracy, their view was, like, we don't care about you. Like, what is the Manchester? Who are the Mosleys? You know, so they couldn't count any support from London. Their fellow industrialists resented them because to them, locally, they were like this a risk.

ocratic clan that taxed people. So the Moseley's basically their allies became the Church of England and like the local military contingent. You know, which again completely tracks with how, you know, Oswald Moseley viewed the world. You know, this is like a constantly like middle class problem. You know, it doesn't matter that

there's like a kind of veneer of like nobility like hung on it. You know, and I'm not somebody who resourced a class analysis to describe fascism, but there is an aspect of that, you know, particularly in a place like England, you know, that can't be denied. So it's kind of like a perfect storm of shit, you know, kind of like conspiring to design, like how the life of a lot of. Oswald Moves, he would develop, you know, particularly when you consider that, you know, he was of the lost generation who fought World War I, you know, he, um, he didn't live in, in, in, in real poverty. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community.

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his family quite literally like had like this running with Venturemberg, debtor and vice versa with like the local jewish community i mean it's it's like mostly like faded to like take the path that he did you know um and there's something i uh i have a big fan of c s lewis um like i'm not into like tall kind and stuff like that like i like somerset mom and i like C.S. Lewis. And not to go too off track, but something both of them write about, you know, reading between the lines.

It's about how, like, if you're English, like, specifically English, you know, like, these kinds of, like, liminal and, uh, historical phenomena, like, dictate your life and, like, you can't, like, escape from it. And I think that's really true.

You know, like, it's not really like that in America. I mean, yeah, like, you can't, like, familial tragedies have a way of, like, reaching out across generations. And the past is a way of insinuating itself into the present. Like, especially if you're from, like, a prestigious family, but it's not quite the same. You know, like in England, like, the whole issue with Mosley and going back literally centuries, his family's reputation as kind of like enforcers of the ancient regime, like people in 20th century to them that might have been yesterday. And they're like, you know, look at this son of a bitch.

He's, you know, he's responsible for the Pueleu massacre. Those two centuries ago, it doesn't matter. You know, it might have been yesterday. And other societies, even, you know, even other like ancient European cultures, like, they're not like that. You know, there's something, there's something peculiar about, England and

that that really can't be denied you know I don't think but that uh mostly was

uh you know and so this was they like the family kind of became this uh they became very committed

to kind of like traditional like English sensibilities you know like they were cut off like despite despite being this family that made their fortune and industry

like they were in this weird market town they weren't in like industrial London or something you know they and again like the the true aristocrats at Westminster wanted nothing to do with them you know in 300 years

only two Mosleys were elected to parliament you know they they didn't contribute anybody from their ranks to academia, like the running-in-Moslies who were like artists or architects. Like, basically, they were a family of, of soldiers, of Parsons, of, you know, businessmen who had good hustle and were good at making money.

You know, this very much like the middle class, like, backbone of England. you know it's uh moseley himself no it's something good okay mostly was born in november 16th 1896 his mom was 21 year old katherine heathcote known as maud it was a very difficult birth it was 18 hours and it almost killed his it almost killed maud his mother His dad was Oswald, Arnold, Mosley. He was basically a functioning alcoholic. He was a cad. He was a gambler. A womanizer.

He was known for having a filthy mouth and being something of a hooligan. Like, even in the middle age, like, he'd get in trouble for brawling. And just for, you know, kind of crazy annex that you'd associate with some. kind of unhinged frat boy um when oswald mosley was born his father telegrammed basically everybody he knew you know and um you know he seemed to be incredibly proud of the fact his wife had born him his son and um in maud's diary she expressed with relief you know that it was a boy because obviously the kind of the purpose of the pregnancy was to produce an error. But other than the fact that Walt Moseley was happy that he had a son,

he seemed basically uninterested in his family. And like Oswald Moseley later, he'd talk about his family. I mean, not so much in idealized terms, but he'd insist that he had this like happy home life, which it seems to be anything but the case. You know, like he, like his mom doted on him. by all accounts, but, you know, he had this, his parents from this, like, loveless marriage. His dad, again, was, like, this caddish kind of mean guy who, like, didn't really have any interest in his kids.

You know, it, um, his father had been a boxer, too. Like, he, uh, he was an accomplished, uh, featherweight boxer. You know, um, reputation is kind of a bully. You know, like, not, not a happy upbringing. Mosley was known as Tom or Tommy by his whole family, presumably to distinguish himself from his father. Eventually, the parents separated without formulating into formally seeking divorce,

and it was understood pretty much by everybody that it was well of Mosley's compulsive. promiscuity that led to it. I guess Walt Mosy, like any reasonably attractive woman, like under a certain age, like you try to nail her. You know, I mean, like I said, it seems

it seems like a very unhappy home. And Oswald Mosley himself, he was something of a compulsive womanizer too. And when men don't have an inherent the sins of the father.

Mosley's kids liked him. Oswald Mosley's kids. And he seemed to be like an engaged father, unlike his dad. But he had similar problems with improperly pursuing these kinds of extramarital affairs. You know.

And there's like Molesley's mom, whatever her shortcomings, she did live by kind of like the values of the family. Like she was a, she was very much like a churchgoer, very much a believer, you know, very much kind of disgusted by the infidelities of her husband. that had to be a weird environment to grow up in. I mean, frankly, I mean, that kind of infidelity is going to be hard on kids anyway. But frankly, like most guys who grew up with a father like that, like the mother just kind of tolerates it, you know, and she doesn't really care that much because, you know, she's somebody like Lady Bird Johnson was. And it's like, well, that, you know, I've got mine.

So what do I care? like, you know, I got a good life, and I got a husband with a prestigious role. Like, it's got to be very strange to have a father who's a true cat or a mom who's like, you know, like a church going, basically like modest, you know, proper lady. Like, I'm sure that led to some screwy psychological vagaries. But where are we at? Yeah, I realized we only going 50 minutes, but frankly, I'm not feeling great. and before I get into most of these war service and stuff

I kind of want to save that for the second episode again I'm sorry to be abrupt I'm just I'm not feeling well today no problem not a problem at all yeah let's do some plugs and we'll get out of here yeah yeah no again forgive me man no problem yeah I

I'm in the process of the recording content for season three of the mind phaser pod which I'm very excited about I had to postpone a couple days because my hull hasn't been great. But that's underway this weekend. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together, we can create a moment. more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid. at airgrid.e. 4.6 Northwest.

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Substack as well as some of my longer form writing. It's Real Thomas 777.7.7.com. I'm removing season one and two from behind the paywall. And so there's about 15 episodes of season one.

and about 10 of season two, as of now, you can access for free. And every day or two, I'm uploading like five or six episodes from behind the paywall. So be aware of that. You can find me on social media at Capital R-A-L underscore number seven, HMAS-777.com. I've got a website that's kind of a one-stop for my content. it's number seven h o m a yes 7777.com and um yeah my instagram on telegram just seeking you shall find all right pick it up in a few days thank you

yeah no it's great again i'm sorry um no no yeah thank you man yeah i want to welcome everyone back to the peek in yono show thomas is back part two of the life and the thought of um was it was he sir did he ever ever become Sir Oswald Mosley? Yeah. Yeah. We'll get into that. Yeah, he did.

Yeah, his, his, um, his claim and mobility, um, was complicated. We got into some of that in the first episode. I'll get into that and the conclusion, um,

which, among other things, Al-Qaeda blues sends relating to his biographical data. So where are we going to, uh, where are we jumping off to? day. The key to understanding Mosy's political trajectory is World War I.

His experience was more like that of Adolf Hitler than people will acknowledge. His time under fire was a lot more brief. And unsurprisingly, there's this really insipid tendency of English historians to try and throw shade on Mosley's war record, which is ridiculous.

you know um but i'll get into mosley witnessed from the air as an aerial observer with the royal flying corps the first chemical weapons assault

of the war at eprra in 1915 and about 10 kilometers from where mosley was on that day was Adolf Hitler on the ground, you know, with the opposing element. It's fascinating.

But, you know, we talked about in the first episode, mostly's lineage, the people that they captured as allies over generations, tended to be military officers and Church of England clergy people and adjacent elements, you know, which, like, I made the point. that the constantly middle class resume in the in the UK sense not in the American sense and mostly himself mostly was mostly self-educated you know and for an aristocrat even one who had kind of an unusual pedigree like he did that was pretty unusual and he essentially educated himself in politics when he was

convalescing you know he didn't um he didn't have a discreet lay done identifiable political psychology prior to really the conclusion of the of the warriors and why he was this young prodigy of parliamentarian and how he got who encouraged him in that direction is is interesting because it was one of Churchill's cronies not because Churchill and the organization around him like look favorably by Moseley. It was they very much owed to Machiavellian politic

and they wanted, they wanted him to run on the liberal ticket hoping that the lib Dems could split what was a burgeoning consensus among labor. You know, and the labor party

had a lot of momentum. Air Grids, Operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community.

Find out more at airgrid.com.i.4.Northwest. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card when with Options Card you can have both. With Options Card, your team gets the best of both worlds. They can spend with Ireland's favourite retailers or choose a Spend Anywhere card. It's simple to buy and easy to manage.

There are no hidden fees, it's easy to use and totally flexible. They can even re-gift or donate to a good cause. Make your awards more rewarding. Visit Optionscard.com. today. In the immediate aftermath of the Great War. That's about outside the scope. But we're going to get into Mosley's early, is adolescence and early adulthood here

because that's essential. And I think Mosey's an important person, and should be for anybody, is philosophically oriented towards the right, you know, and people should become competent in, in the biographies of these people and what sorts of ideological tendencies they represent and what they're the standard bearers of.

So I spend more time and that kind of thing than some historians. But, you know, Moseley grew up without a father, really. His father was not a good man. And Moseley, unfortunately, emulated a lot of his vices. Mosley really liked violence as a young guy and he was marinated his military education that was very much encouraged. You know, like militarism, it's like the scare word, you know, like militarism and that people talk about the culture or the Kaiser right.

Like, oh, it was steeped in this kind of like toxic militarism. That's the way it was everywhere on the continent as well as the UK. You know, and part of this really, you know, from after Israelis tenure onward, A lot of this was kind of cultivated, like we talked about in other series, owing it parts of the rudderlessness of the empire and the need for kind of a coherent pole star around which to orient policy. But it's also, it's just kind of like violence at scale and martial impulses were just in the zeitgeist. You know, and mostly wasn't ever swept up in that.

But I think he was probably uniquely susceptible. and I'm not trying to play, you know, dollar store psychologist, but, you know, Mosley's, the marriage and his parents had essentially been breaking down from the time Mosley came out of the shoot. You know, his father was literally absent when he was born. He sent out a bunch of telegrams, you know, like effusively, you know, gushing over the fact that his wife had given birth to an heir, but he didn't really have any interest in, in the actual investment required to be

a parent, you know, psychically or emotionally. He was a degenerate womanizer, like gambler, brawler. You know, and by and Moseley's mom, Maud, she was this really stately looking woman. She was about 5'10. I mean, which is still like very tall for a lady,

but in those days, you know, that was highly unusual. She was a very pious believer, you know, she took her faith seriously. You know, she

very much held the family together. And, uh, mostly his grandfather, his maternal grandfather was kind of like his surrogate dad. And, um, Waldy, uh, Malsi's own father, like,

uh, his, his, while he's own father, uh, like, like, thought very poorly of him and the way he treated his family. so Moseley's grandfather kind of stepped in as much as he could to be his father figure

and by 1901 when Moseley himself was five and Maud was very pregnant with Moseley's younger brother Edward I know Edward was already born by 1901

yeah I think he was about two years old so like toddler Edward who was born in 1899. But Maude finally left. You know, like enough was enough. And the, you know, they gossip in those days around a philandering husband, especially for somebody who, you know, admittedly the Mosleys were not conventional aristocrats, but they had enough of a public profile that this was a gross embarrassment.

You know, um, so it, uh, you know, Maud separated when Mosey was a very small boy. Um, you know, in this, uh, even with, you know, a paternal influence in his life, like, especially that generation and especially considering their station, this had to have had a profound effect on, on, on Mold's. And that, uh, I found in my own life, I mean, this is anecdotal, but I mean, all the life is anecdotal. Like, men who develop under similar conditions with an absentee father like that, they, they tend to be very uncompromising. I've noticed, okay? But, uh, you know, mostly He was very devoted to his mom, but not in a contentable way. But in a way that was probably somewhat unusual for Anglophone people. We, Anglo-Protestant people, Germanics, but specifically, you know, Anglos, were a very patriarchal culture.

and that's something that I think a lot of people don't really understand from without and that's one of the reasons for the tenor of discourse like cultural discourse of a punitive nature in America that's so I mean it mostly was something of an outlier like I and why do I emphasize this not just because it's I enjoy speculating on people's psychology or not just because it's trivia. But Mosley's detractors, and even some people

should know better, they cast him as kind of like, oh, he was this lesser aristocrat who owing the declining fortunes when he reached the age of majority became a fascist. That's like lazy thing for all kinds of

reasons. And I don't really think it tracks even with more traditional personages, um, but, uh,

or more conventional personages. But in Mosey's case, he was very much an outlier, you know, and, um, the,

uh, the, uh, Owing to Moses' grandfather being his substitute parent, though, especially during his like preales and formative years, he was a very uncompromising guy. Morals, tradition, a kind of martial ethos, you know, you're a nobleman, you know, however alienated we might be from London

and from the House of Lords, you're a nobleman, We're the vanguard. We're the ones who, you know, quashed the, the working class traders in 1848. You know, we're the ones who are like the guardians of the race and the faith of the empire. You know, and that's something mostly internalized very much, you know. And being raised, uh, being raised, uh, my grandparents always, especially in the 20th and 21st centuries, when there's generational divisions or a real thing,

that'll put you, I think in some ways that puts them in, like in better stead to understand their historical situateness, you know, if they're people who are thoughtful in that regard. But it also, it's very much, indicates a different formative experience between a child and their and their parent figure, particularly their father figure. Their values are going to be out of step with most of their peers. And that was very much the case with Mosley. You know, it wasn't, he was a natural leader and people were attracted to him, but he didn't, he didn't fit in with boys his own age, even of his own, even of, even of,

who had class and station in common with them. You know, and I think all these things kind of conspired for that. You know, and the, um, this kind of atmosphere of, uh, this kind of atmosphere of strife within the family, within the paternal lineage, uh, that had to have, uh, that had to have bred an intolerance for certain kinds of behaviors and dispositions in most,

I mean, I know it did. How could it not? And despite mostly his own problems with like sexuality and like womanizing and stuff, he had very, very little tolerance for what he perceived as weakness in the ranks of his own men.

Okay? And in a way that was above and beyond what a political soldier should you know, adopt as a standing doctrine. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area,

and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person, so together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. Northwest. This Black Friday, game stream and go full speed with one gig

Sky broadband. And watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people. Killing me, John. And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig, Sky Broadband, essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month

for 12 months. Our lowest ever price. Availability subject location, new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter, TV and broadband sold separately, terms of for more infoise he's got out of e-slash-beads. Mosley, he attended what was considered then about the best

English prep school West Downs. It was run by a guy named Lionel Helbert. I mean, that's not like a schoolmaster name. I don't know what it is. But he he was at West Downs

with the son, the sions of a bunch of military families. One of his classmates was John Sinclair, who went on to be the chief at MI6. Mosey was remembered by people, his classmates, including Sinclair, as being incredibly bright, but, you know, had basically no interest in schoolwork.

You know, he was interested in his own kind of, fascinations. Again, like very much they get off Hitler, you know, who also had a incredibly contentious relationship with his father. Who was a real bully, you know, in the pure sense.

And of course, Hitler, the parish priest, and one of his history teachers at his elementary school kind of took him under their wing is, you know, his kind of stand-in internal figures. But, you know, what, an early indicator

of Mosley's trajectory was he his reputation as being about the best debater in the school, you know, and he could basically wrong foot anybody in these kinds of discursive exercises and make

them look stupid. And in the UK, the reason why question time remains a thing, even as deteriorated as the culture is across the pond, is being competent in letters and being competent in that kind of, you know, combative verbal advocacy. I mean, that's something like every Englishman of any station is supposed to excel at. you know and uh moseley was second to none i've told people that they should watch there's a lot of film of moseley and a lot of it's been restored and it's pretty easy to find unlike unlike some uh unlike some footage from the era and unlike you know a lot of footage um that's you know owing to the kind of hegemony of the cloud proverbially speaking you know a lot of of this stuff is kind of being

censored and just by being like redacted. But there's there remains this day a lot of Mosley stuff and you know Mosley was uh I think he was about out of the entire

coterie of kind of of radicals you know both on the right and the left. I think he was about the best public speaker um that includes that off Hitler. I mean,

Hitler's uh Hitler's energy and his like messianic uh sort of mystique gave Hitler

a kind of gravitas that mostly didn't have what you're talking about in terms like pure command of the language and a man who's kind of like a pure politician and kind of like the Greco-Roman sense. You know, I don't, I don't mean in the pejorative sense.

you know, that that's Moseley, you know, and there's a, there's a profundity and an exciting energy to Moseley's speeches that don't resort to like idiotic, soaring language and a lot of these things that, everything else, I mean, aside in the fact that stuff comes off is stupid and curile, it's just not suited to the English language isn't suited to that, you know, and Moseley, some Mosey speeches were better than others, but none are sub-far. You know, so I strongly suggest people taking as much of that as they can. Helbert, the headmaster, he was very much, he very much sought to inundate the student body with a kind of strong

communitarian tradition and he like border down like blood and soil kind of stuff Air grid operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest we're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local

knowledge are vital in shaping these plans our consultation closes on the 25th of November have your say online or in person so together we can create a more reliable sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.com.

This Black Friday, game, stream and go full speed with one gig, sky broadband. And watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people killing each other. And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig Sky Broadband, Essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months. our lowest ever price. Availability subject location,

new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter, TV and broadband sold separately, terms apply for more infoise, sky.8 slash beads. You know, um,

Ralph Gardner, who, uh, later became a, like an English national socialist. He recalled that, uh, Helbert was like a hero to him and a lot of the boys at the school.

You know, and he, he, directly saying it. It was clear he was kind of suggesting that Helbert very much kind of inundated the boys with the values that later made himself a national socialist. He said Helbert wanted every

he felt that every man and woman um you know had to abide what was their own peculiar destiny according to the laws of You know, not just character and spirit, you know, but according to their, you know, kind of like racial destiny and things and historical situatedness, you know, and he, he tried to inundate the boys with a kind of like patriotic fervor, you know, but not in some superficial way, you know, it was bound up with being an Englishman, being of a certain class and station, having certain responsibilities. you know, viewing yourself and, like, your race as, as, you know, the best, but also that containing certain moral obligations to other people, you know, within, you know, the, the folk community, but also just generally, you know, a kind of noblest obligate, um, for,

um, a population for writing over an empire, you know, um, um, and uh mostly later in life he was like a huge prankster like he'd do mean spirited stuff to his ops but like to his friends and comrades that men under his command

you know he one of the reasons people liked him is because like he'd break up uh sober moments by doing like funny shit and um apparently that was like headmaster Helber apparently that was like something that

according to a gardener like that like that that was something that Mosley had gotten from him, you know, which I find that kind of thing interesting. Just because it's humanizing, but that tells you something about the person, like stuff about, like, a great man's

sense of humor, like, what kind of women you liked. Like, that's, it's not just trivia. You know, I mean, I realize I've probably got a a stronger fascination with this than people who are engaged in, you know, kind of like an obsessive study of history.

But, you know, I mean, it's important. Mosley's secondary school was Winchester. It had been founded initially as a monastic institution in the 14th century.

By the 20th century, particularly... This was kind of the peak of the progressive era, like a tail end in the UK, like public secondary school. It'd become this revered ideal. You know, and it was part of that was, despite, you know, from the Israeli, from Disraeli's tenure on, or Disraeli himself wasn't particularly Germanophobic. But from that period onward, there was this tendency to talk about, you know, the Kaiser Reich, like, it was lacking in every way compared to the UK.

In cultural terms, you know, there was a suggestion it was actually culturally impoverished. Well, I mean, that came from a basic, from a place of basic anxiety, okay? And, like, the Bismarckian, like, public education system, in some ways the British were trying to emulate that, you know, but with but while insinuating their own kind of like characteristics into it and obviously like very much uh including stuff suggestive of of you know what they viewed as their you know kind of imperial mandate which of course uh you know had a had a had a had a providential origin according to the whole kind of pastiche of influences that made up

the late British umpires mythologies but um the uh Eaton, Harrow and Winchester they were considered to be like the top like public schools.

Okay. The curriculum was loyalty, honor, chivalry faith in Christ patriotism sportsmanship and confidence in physical

pursuits and above all leadership particularly going to the era with an eye for military command you know because again not only was this not the exclusive domain of

continental and specifically Teutonic people, but this was truly a global phenomenon. Okay. There was war and rumors of war on the minds and lips of men from east to west and quite literally in the air. Okay. Mosley also, in the 50s especially when he was staging his comeback and he obviously this was like the nascent era of television and one of the favorite ways to try and rook

then uh you know elderly mowgli was to these like left-wing journals you know to say like well obviously you know at these at these institutions that you know we now know were inundating people with the wrong ideas. This is where you learned anti-Semitism. You know, and something, mostly would be kind of flippant about it. You know, and he said one time, well, there's a whimsical brutality in the English character. You know, ha, ha, ha. And that's probably not so different from the way I answer questions related to the same topic. because it's a stupid question and it's something that no self-respecting man like lets himself be checkmated by but there wasn't a counterpart of julius striker

the sthermer type anti-jewish media or kind of subcultural sentiment in the UK but there's a basic understanding before you know Churchill's truest sentency that you know

Disraeli was an outlier like no Jew is truly an Englishman you know and that should be that should be obvious to anybody who knows

the culture but this idea that Mosley somehow developed this unique hostility to Jews and Jewry doesn't really track and

in fact Mosley he was lambasted by a lot of people on the right as being you know soft on the question you know lately when I say lately I mean past like

30 years, okay, of having an historical time. You know, how the English, maybe you don't know. I didn't know that until I went there, like years and years back, speaking of ancient history. There's these, like, little circular plaques. They almost look like plates or something. They're like these, like, unobtrusive,

like, markers. And in the UK, they put them on historical sites. You know, like, it'll be like, oh, this was, you know, Benjamin Disraeli's child in school or on this spot

you know like this happened they've got one that I think went up in the late 90s commemorating the quote Battle of Cable Street that was the BUF March where they brawled with a constellation of of enemies

including you know a mob of a I think who were under the banner of the Jewish war veterans or something, because there was a traditionally Jewish section of London. And so this is like held out as, you know, oh, these Nazi brutes went to like pogrom, you know, the Jews of London, but, you know, they got, they got fought, they were, they were beaten back by this kind of rainbow coalition of people who realized that's not international character. Like, that's a weird way to. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's

electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online

or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.com.i.4.Northwest. This Black Friday game, stream and go full speed with one gig sky broadband and watch unmissable shows like all her fault on

sky these nice people killing each other and ballad of a small player starring colin farrell on netflix i've made some mistakes right who hasn't get one gig sky broadband essential tv and netflix all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months our lowest ever price availability subject location new customers only 12 month minimum terms standard pricing thereafter tv and broadband sold separately terms apply for more info c skyd a slash speeds coming at the b uf because they really weren't like don't get me wrong um the b uf absolutely was uh was um you know um favorable to the german rike and and they certainly viewed um they certainly viewed jews as the enemies of the empire in political terms like mostly he didn't have some like racialized view of of jews but

like holding mosey and the b f out is kind of like the mortal enemy of English Jewry is kind of strange. But I think it owes more to the illiteracy of you know, the body politic as well as the, you know,

I mean, the, the academe has been nakedly politicized in the UK just like here, you know, since the New Deal slash Churchill era. But I think it's also, it's like a basic ignorance, but, um, you know, that, uh,

Forgive me that was he tangential, but the, uh, Mosley was very much a Christian, uh, during this period. And this is significant. And I'm going to get into what I mean by this in a minute. Mosley, uh, he became very interested in spiritualism and theosophy and even some eriosophy. When he was convalescing, um,

he, uh, He read a lot of the stuff that came to, like, inform people like Savitri Devi later on and things. Mostly openly acknowledged that he felt caught between, like, a pious belief in, you know, the kind of Anglophone interpretation of the faith and legitimate paganism. And this kind of, like, liminal phenomenon. phenomenon in the Carl Jaspers and Jungian sense of being caught between historical imperatives and the ancient past informing the present in critical ways and this kind of weakening of the weakening of the barrier of reason

between what is actual historical memory, what is myth, what is a matter of faith, what is a historical um you know, occurrence. Nowhere is this greater felt than in England.

And C.S. Lewis wrote about this, okay? Mosley embodied that tendency to a T. and if you want to understand true English fascism it comes from a different place than German national socialism or like Spanish syndicalism or you know Italian fascism

you know I mean in the case of the German Reich yes it very much it very much came from what Noli called fear of practical transcendence and that has a liminal implication, but it's not really the same thing. Okay, and I make this point, not just as I respect Mosley,

and in a lot of ways I modeled myself on him, but because this is key. And it mostly did not gravitate to fascism along to some, like, fattishness, like, nor did he view it as some sort of, skin one takes on metaphorically speaking, you know, for pragmatic reasons or to combat, you know, the opposing tendency of communism or anything like that. This is very like, this is a very much like auto-cathized like mode of fascism that mostly developed, you know, and that's why

that's something that owes to his staying power in the public mind. Because guys, guys, who, like third-rate guys who tried to bandwagon on the right, you know, and model themselves on Adolf Hitler or something, those guys were a dime a dozen, and like nobody followed them, and nobody thought that they were serious people, and nobody even remembers them. You know, like what sets Mosley apart, you know, said Mosley wasn't prime minister. I mean, Mosley didn't, you know, for a man who, I mean, yeah, he was a significant political figure, but so is Ramsey McDonald. Okay, and like there's not

like volume is written on Ramsey McDonald who was prime minister. I think the point stands. You know, but Mosley, during this time, you know, Moseley's mom, and a single mother, Mosley's father, who was still

quite wealthy, but was basically you know, he absent in every sense, including in terms of, you know, any any inclination of her material assistance.

Moses' mom was struggling to meet the tuition demands. You know, I'd just say the expenses of, you know, of Moses' education. His grandfather set up a trust fund for the boys.

Mosley and his brother, Edward. Mosley, something that helped him was he took up boxing and he became a very good boxer you know at 15 he was fraudable enough that he was beating guys you know two and three years older than him you know he had a he had a he had a a strong mentor and

influence and his commitment to training and his boxing coach, a man named Sergeant Ryan. Like, Sergeant was his first name. It's not at rank. Mostly won the lightweight championship during this time as an amateur boxer. And this helped, owing to his prowess, obviously, you know, like he was given a person, His family was given a partial break on his tuition and things. He later transitioned to fencing, and it's believed a combination of his grandfather as well as the influence of some of these aristocratic types that he came an iconic with who were like the fathers and uncles and brothers of his schoolmates who said basically looked like. you know, trouble as your family may be, you are a nobleman, and that's great, you know how to fight, because everybody needs to know how to fight, but noblemen aren't champion boxers, they're fensers.

So Moseley took up fencing, and he became a fencing prodigy, you know, which is pretty remarkable because, yeah, I mean, the kind of kinesthesis that lends itself to boxing and they kind of toughness that translates somewhat to fencing but not but they're very very very different um pursuits but uh mostly basically excelled at everything you took on you know um it's uh the headmaster uh at uh westminster a dr rendel he, uh, he'd gone as far as to try and forbid, uh, Moseley entering the public school's boxing championship, you know, saying that this is, this is just, like, distasteful for, like, a man of your station. Like, that's how extreme it was, you know, um, and there was kind of, there was like a disconnect, too,

because the, uh, um, military training at the time, even for officers. And if you wanted to be an officer, then unless you were, unless in time of war, you were like a Mustang NCO who got promoted owing to the fact that you basically pulled some Audi Murphy shit. Like, you wanted to be an officer in the British Army, you know, you had to have the right pedigree. And military training and the entire culture just before World War I, the British Army, it was very, very savage, like almost wowsish. You know, the way Mosley described it and the way U.S.ly described it and the way

other guys have, like, in their, like, war diaries and things, you know, it's, uh, it's almost like clockwork orange or something, you know, like going out, you know, these, these officer candidates were like the sons of a nobleman, you know, going into London on the weekend on leave and, um, like getting it, getting into like razor blade brawls with, uh, with, with like working class yobbs. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

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My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at giddlestorhouse.com. Get the Faxby Drinkaware, visitdrinkaware.comer. Or like sailors, like just for the hell of it. You know what I mean? And that's not really what you associate with the British army, you know, the officer corps. You know, I mean, this isn't the U.S. Marines, like, it's the British army.

You know, but that, it was, you know, it owed, like I said, like the kind of zeitgeist of violence. But just the same, I mean, the kind of... that kind of pretentious overlay that's obsessed with kind of certain modalities of decorum remained and it's like, well, you know, gentlemen, gentlemen know how to fight, know how to defend themselves,

gentlemen like violence, but they don't box. You know, that's for, that's something that poor men do. But, um, just to, before we move ahead, just bring it back, what I meant by liminal figures, let me clarify that. I think this is important. I don't think it's just a, a silly tangent.

I really, really like C.S. Lewis, and he kind of speaks to me, like, I think, racially owing to my own heritage. C.S. Lewis was a Catholic

convert, but he was very, very English, and I said the English character better than almost anybody. My favorite bug of his is that hideous strength. It's the final chapter. It's the sequel to

out of the silent planet. You know, and it's part of like his space series. And it follows some of the same characters, but it doesn't have to do with space. Although some of the deities and things that feature in the earlier books of the space trilogy feature

in it. But like briefly, it's about this young academic. like literally as World War II's ending. He's a senior fellow in sociology at this fictional university. Okay. As the war is ending, this kind of mysterious administrative body emerges that starts kind of absorbing everything of a political or police and military or academic sociological character,

like within its penumbra, it's called N-I-C-E, like NICE, which obviously is a riff. You know, it's supposed to represent this kind of like superficially benign institution, but it's an acronym for the National Institute for Coordinated Experiments. And it turns out that this thing is staffed by these

like occultists, okay? But they've got this weird transhumanist view of things and they think that spiritual matters and like occult energy and like the summoning of old gods and malevolent deities, they believe it's like a

scientific basis for this. Or at least like this can be reduced to things like analyzing disturbances in atoms or like, you know, the manipulation of temporal phenomenon around like these entities when they emerge or something.

And that'll like reveal through principles and material science, like what they are. But it turns out that the reason why NICE has co-opted this university is because it's adjacent to this land called Bragdon Woods. And this guy, this sociology fellow discovers that in Bragdon Woods, that's the resting place of Merlin. who's a real guy and this isn't like widely known in the story but it's like people in the know like know that Merlin was real

and that he's either in repose or his body is here but this is like a Bragdon Woods it's powerful and it's clear if you like disturb Merlin's corpse or you know person in suspended animation like something terrible will happen

you know so it basically as it develops like this guy Merlin's eventually revived. It's not clear what the implications that are going to be, but something apocalyptic is emergent. And as the story goes out, it becomes clear, like, well, this is something unique to England?

You know, like what history is and what mythology is, in certain institutions, in certain patterns of thought, in certain belief structures, these two things collapse into one another. Okay. And if you're not in doctrine, intranated into that or initiated into that in some way, like you don't really understand what it is to be English and you're not really part of that cultural milieu, you know, and um, Air Grid, Operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say.

online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.e. 4.6. Northwest. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savour festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails, and dance the night away with DJs from Love Tempo. Get-taking views, amazing atmosphere, incredible food and drink.

My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the facts be drink-aware, visit drink-aware.com. There's tremendous power in being able to access this kind of liminal memory, but there's also tremendous perils that are involved there too. Okay? And Mosley not only was a believer in these kinds of things, but he somehow embodied the characteristics

culturally and psychologically that you have rise of that kind of paradigm, okay? Um, and that's the key to English fascism. You know, there's a, there's a, an aspect of historical

memory that is, uh, that's, um, something different than the kind of phenomenological aspects of national socialism. But that's what I meant. I wanted to clarify that.

The, yeah, but I'll, let me see what kind of time we got. Yeah, I'll pick up a pace a little bit. But by January 1914, you know, young Mosley, obviously,

was coming to the end of his public school studies. he saw it admit he had no idea what he was going to do for a profession but you know again even though um even though world war one hadn't broken out yet you know um something not quite but precedent to war fever seemed to be in the air mostly under he he took the test for the royal military college at sandhurst he was accepted for the next nine months he trained as a cavalryman

and a dragoon Dragoons and Lancers for clarity Lancers are basically forced reconnaissance like they still exist there's still like designated Lancer elements like in the British Army today

and on the 20th of the 21st century battlefield they do what like force reconnaissance would do like in an American military organization um dragoons are mounted

and dismounted cavalry heavy dragoons basically ride to the battle space or um in like the Napoleonic era they'd like ride to the front dismount in formation um and then unload heavy weapons

that they'd like manhandle as like infantry but they were basically pre-mechanized mobile infantry. As I would think of them in World War I context. Mostly he had been an avid horseman his whole life. That's another thing that his grandfather had kind of insinuated into him. So militarily, like, what he wanted to do? like he wanted, you know, he wanted to do something with cavalry. You know, as, as the war broke out,

Mosy intended, as I said, they joined the 17th Lancers. Their commander was a man in Vivian Lockett. Vivian Lockett was a cousin of Mosley's, okay? and he was also like a leading like polo player so he was a like he was a stud but uh moseley mostly had more uh personal social capital than he did money or um or business connections and this is something throughout his life that kind of helped him get ahead you know um but uh he was persuaded to make the switch to the 16th late dragoons

by a friend of his mom's family through lovely stammer but it was basically the same element at 17 he was billeted to the 16th Lancers in October 1st, 1914 he's commissioned as a second lieutenant he reported that

Kura barracks and county Kildare, 20 miles south of Dublin. That was like the home base for 16th Lancers, who were attached to the Third Cavalry Brigade, which had been reinforced in anticipation of trouble because Prime Minister Ascot's Home Rule Act. and there was great concern that there was going to be some sort of coup stage in Northern Ireland by like Ulsterborn officers or, you know, an event of a breakout of general hostilities in, uh, in Ireland that, uh, like the Ulsterman among the officers would simply desert and, like, go to defend Ulster. you know and this this obviously this is outside the scope of our discussion on on oswald mosley but one of the reasons why the irish situation like developed the way it did after the

easter rising is obviously because you know the british were engaged in essentially like you know total war on the continent but um this was uh mosley was the youngest man uh He was the youngest officer in the regiment. You know, and this must have been, this constellation of fact, there was like knowing you're going to deploy to the continent and it was turning into a meat grinder. You're in Ulster.

There's a fear of, you know, like a 30-year officer who are like native sons deserving. You know, you, there's also concern of, you know, some sort of general war with, with the the the

the with some Irish Republican element I mean this this definitely wasn't um this certainly wasn't opposing for guys who didn't didn't have

balls you know um that's why it doesn't resent um people trying to throw shade on Mose's service record I mean it's ridiculous anyway

but um the uh just before Christmas um Mosey's regiment had embarked for France Um Mosey was expected to be sent right into action

Um It quickly became clear there was no need for conventional cavalry So he realized he was going to find himself Like leading an infantry platoon Which he was, you know, he was fine with But he There was an appeal sent out Because there was a desperate need for aerial

observers in the Royal Flying Corps. And at that time, this was a very dangerous job for all kinds of reasons. And the Germans, one of the reasons by Ritzthofen and Ernst Udett and Young Gehring and the rest of the

you know, the Riktoffin Flying Circus as well as a bunch of these other Kaiser-Rite air aces. They they were ahead of the game the Germans were in tactical versatility of aircraft. And they were really chewing the UK and the French to pieces in the air for about the first 12 to 18 months of hostilities. So this was not like light duty. Also, there was no ejection and no parachutes in these World War I aircraft.

So when the aircraft went down, you just braced yourself and you crashed with it. You know, I mean, it was definitely a man's job. But Mosley volunteered for the Royal Flying Corps in no small measure because that's where aristocrats went, you know, especially when, you know, the absence of a true role for the cavalry element. You know, it, so that's where he made his home in, you know, in his deployment to France. It was also something of an elite fraternity. The Royal Flying Corps, as of 1914, it had fewer than a thousand men. It was made of two wings and 64 aircraft. the number one wing.

It was literally wing number one, wing number two. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together, we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.I.E. 4.S. Northwest.

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Mosey was posted to wing two again as an observer He hadn't qualified to fly yet as a solo flyer Um which uh is

was when he did that um ironically is one of the things that conspired to take him out of action for an elite. And a combat rule, I mean. But two weeks subsequent, he joined number two wing, number six squadron, which had been established on the coast of Dunkirk. And was deployed to protect, was deployed to assist in the relief of Antwerp. And observers played in a key role because they'd spot for indirect fire, you know, just for context.

The, these spotting flights usually took three hours. Obviously, they were behind enemy lines because they were essentially citing in, you know, counterforce artillery. you know so they'd have to spot for you know where german guns were situated and the heavy artillery element you know was sometimes you know 70 80 miles behind the lines um so you're basically surveying german defenses in a slow flying prop plane that uh with the maximum ceiling of 6,000 feet or so. You know, you're a sitting duck for ground fire as well as, you know, for, for enemy fighters, which again, we're a lot more versatile at this time than, um, than Royal Flying Corps aircraft. You know, and then top speed is, you know, 70 to 80 miles an hour.

in a strong wind if you're carrying ordinance, if it's a bombing run and there's no, a recon run, your speed might slow to 30 to 40 miles per hour. You know, I mean, again, the ironic casualties from just like ground fire, including

small arms, was, it's absurd by you know, contemporary metrics. But, um, the, uh, Moseley's, uh, Mosey's pilot that he was assigned to, um, he and Mosey were both shot. I mean, they, their plane was shot down during, um, a low-flying run where, uh, at lowest altitude, there were only five hundred feet, um, above ground. for the mission, Mosey's pilot received the Distinguished Service Order. Mosley injured his knee

and suffered a concussion. This is the first of many injuries. He got, you know, directly going to hostile action. You know, like I said, Moses, he was in common about 75 days all told before he was injured catastrophically

and taken out of action. Ironically, he was injured when he was qualifying as a solo pilot, which he probably had no business being in the air, like going to these previous injuries, he'd sustained. But,

you know, that for those 75 days, he was basically in constant constant action, you know, the, uh, mostly, uh, he said, uh, he wrote a letter to his mother when he was flying these recon sorters. He said, she should not grieve if he's killed in action because he was sure he would find death, quote, a most interesting experience. Um, he said that, uh, he being under fire was terrifying, but it was also exhilarating and very exciting. He said it was a quote peculiar ecstasy, which sooner were off,

after which time one had to resist a profound depression. But he wrote a lot both to his mom and some of his friends, and a lady he was trying to court about this weird dichotomy because he said compared to the infantry, he's like, you know, we live well. You know, he's like, we live in nice quarters.

You know, he's like, a lot of the guys are gourmand's, so we eat a lot of good food. You know, but then he's like, every day, like more of us die. You know, so it's like there's less and less of us at dinner. You know, and he's like, he's like, when you're on the ground, he's like, he's like, I'm sure to the infantry,

death seems very much organic. because it's all around you. You know, he's like, we're kind of like a gentleman's, like, flying society, but then, like, every day some of us, like, get blown to hell. You know, there's something like, there's something very funny about that in a Gello's way. But, yeah, let's see what the... Okay, I'll wrap this up in a second. But, um, the, uh, yeah, so the, um, Moseley's, um,

squadron in April 1915 became a bombing squadron and this involved literally dropping heron-a-h from a thousand feet or like strapping like a hundred pound bomb to the fuselage of the plane

and then cutting it loose and like dropping it approximately over the target on the 18th of April Mosley and his pilot were dropping bombs on a zeppelin shed

at the Connolly. This is what earned this is a mission that earned Mosley a distinguished service order of his own. But and there's an interesting dynamic

to between the soldiers kind of in this first early phase of World War I like Lloyd George became like a real hero

to the men at the front including Mosley and this was his inspiration to become a parliamentarian which we'll have to get into in the next episode this might go straight out the four episodes But I hope that's not a problem or cumbersome.

Yeah. I figure you're judging by where we're... Yeah, yeah, I'll aggregate it because I don't want to screw up the schedule. But Mosley's reverence for Lloyd George, which seems, which I'm sure seems ironic or peculiar to people who, you know, think of the BUF as it ultimately was constituted as being kind of the ultimate, like, anti-establishment element. And in some ways it was, but

I'll get into why Lloyd George became this iconic figure to, like, the British combat element at the front in the next episode. But, yeah, and we'll get into the meat of the B-UF in the next episode, I promise.

I just, I think this stuff's fundamentally important, and I figure if it wasn't holding people's attention, they'd complain. But the feedback is this far as soon as to be effusive, then it's praise, and that's great. I'm very honored by that. Yeah, we can wrap up, man.

And I'll, um, I'll, uh, I'll, uh, I'll cover more ground and less time next episode, I promise. No problem. Very good, very good. Um, two plugs, please. Yeah, man, I'm retooling my website, really, my dear friend, um,

he's, he's doing all that work, because I don't, I don't really know how to do that stuff, but, um, You can find me at Thomas 777.com, like number seven, HMAS 777.com. I'm on social media at capital R-E-A-L underscore number seven, HMAS 777. Best place to go is substack. That's where long-form stuff is in my podcast. I'm watching season three of the pod by February 28th, but I don't have an exact date yet.

It's real Thomas 777.7.7.com. You should search for me just under my old, or under my government name, which is Thomas Sear, and you'll find my stuff, man. Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate it. And all the feedback we've gotten on the first episode is great, and I'm sure this is going to be no different. Not so awesome. Yeah, you're welcome, man. Thanks for hosting me. I want to welcome everyone back to the Peking. show. Thomas is here for part three talking about Mr. Oswald Mosley. Are you done, Thomas? I've done well, thank you. So I'm going to have to important to understand. There's a few things,

and they're all related in terms of substantive significance. You know, Oswald Mosley, other than a Sinn Féin MP who was boycotting the House of Commons. He was the youngest member of parliament. And he was viewed as this prodigy. And Churchill viewed him as something of a rival. Okay. And in those days, the Tories weren't really the ruling party. I mean, they weren't at all.

like the coalition that ultimately kind of morphed into the Tories was but really the only thing they had in common was legacy membership and a kind of class consciousness that they inherited

the coalition that Mosey ultimately joined when he went to the House of Commons it was the liberal party not the liberal Democrats, the liberal party which was defunct by the 80s okay and the liberal party had a split between unionists

who like refused to accept home rule in Ireland as the civil war was raging and guys who had a more moderate perspective on it and uh these guys were in coalition with the conservatives

contra labor and those days labor was a revolutionary party like they weren't communists but they were close you know and Mosley his big thing was that there could never be another war like the Great War

and despite the way that he's slandered by court historians he was in heavy action as an aviator he was catastrophically wounded admittedly like you know during a training maneuver but he'd been wounded in action before that although not critically

you know like I said he was at EPR where he you know, young Lonzer Edolf Hitler was in action. I mean, Mosley was literally witnessing that with a bird's eye view.

Like, he saw the first poison gas assault, you know, and a bunch of men in his squadron like went down in combat. You know, like he was prone to gallo's humor about that. So he wanted to

salvage the League of Nations, but it's a collective security kind of arrangement. Even when Wilson threw his hands up. And subsequently, you know, the U.S. Congress refused to ratify it outright. Moseley said, look, like, we need some kind of collective security arrangement. You know, and despite backing the imperialist position, which wasn't a dirty word then, you know, he said, we've got these manufacturers.

and if we want to continue to be a great power, you know, our competitive manufacturing needs a destination. It needs destination markets. And saying we're going to like perpetually be at war with the Germans to fight over those. It's not liable. You know, and he's like if half the planet can't purchase our manufacturers were done.

You know, so he was a free trader with qualifications. And in those days, like free trade didn't mean we're going to throw the borders open. and we're going to socially engineer identitarian things out of existence. Like Mosey made the point, he was a huge immigration restrictionist. You know, he said, like, this is going to become a problem. You know, and because he was an aviator,

not only did he have a very deep understanding of the technological curve and how future shock impacted things sociologically at scale, but he understood with this mention the mobility of human populations. You understood also like you combine that with mass literacy with the kinds of things that Schengler discussed

in man and techniques and the hour decision. Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November.

Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.e.4 slash northwest. Inflation pushes up building costs, so it's important to review your home insurance cover to make sure you have the right cover for your needs. Under-insurance happens where there's a difference between the value of your cover and the cost of repairing damage or replacing contents. It's a risk you can avoid.

review your home insurance policy regularly. For more, visit understandinginsurance. com slash underinsurance, brought to you by Insurance Ireland. You know, Mosley was like something of a racialist. I mean, like I am, but he didn't have ideas that like, oh, the colored world are stupid or there were a bunch of monkeys. He's like, look, these people are going to master technology. And some of them are as capable of managing it as a white man.

You know, you're going to have to deal with that reality, you know, and one of the things that we're going to have to be aware of is that our shore is going to be swarmed kind of like with the world's wretched and poor, like not even by design. Although, you know, although he acknowledged like that that was part of something that was in the cars. But he's like, you know, just there's going to be masses of people who can't adjust to the future, which is arriving with punctuated rapidity. you know and they're they're going to be attracted to as Hitler said the works and structures

of superior men you know Samozy was a complicated guy okay and would ultimately caused his defection to the labor party and then

his founding of a fascist party was these values that I'm talking about. It wasn't some opportunist thing. And mostly wasn't this marginal figure or this aristocrat, this lesser aristocrat who was out bad with the establishment,

who struck a protest pose. Some people look at like the rotter-exposed caricature, and they confuse that with the man. It'd be like if people took like the Charlie Chaplin movie and were like, yeah, that's Adolf Hitler. He was really like that. I mean, I think there's some degree of that, but Hitler kind of features

it's too much of a sinister, figure in people's minds. Like, he's a Mosley, like, people don't realize, um, like he, he really was, um, he was almost like Kennedy was, like John F. Kennedy in, like, his early career. He was like this war hero, and he was a big womanizer because, like, you know, ladies all liked him because he looked like a matinee idol. He cultivated this kind of incredible aptitude at rhetoric, you know, uh, and when he was

basically not much more than a teenager. You know, you had parliamentarians, like guys are real pedigree. And in the UK, that shit matters to this day, like stepping over themselves to draft him onto their front bench. You know, he was a very serious guy. You know, one of the things that drew a wedge,

he was branded a class trader and he was out bad with, and I'll get into this in a minute, with the men who'd basically vouched for him and whose coalition he led these liberal unionists in coalition with, you know, these kind of neo-wig Tories, mostly he was a friend of the Irish in a big way. And when the black and tans,

who were a bunch of great war veterans, and most of them were Ulstermen, they started putting huge hurt on, not just Phanians, but on like regular Catholic people. Like, it's not propaganda. And the front bench, we're getting a little hard of ourselves, but just to be, I want to get this, put this out front.

The original Bloody Sunday, which was November 11th, 1921, I'm sure one of the Irish guys or girls will correct me if I'm wrong. That's when a bunch of a bunch of British intelligence service officers were murdered by the IRA. So the black and tans, they started resorting to retaliation against the general Catholic population. and the front bench of unionists in parliament said, fuck them. You know, that's our policy. You know, you would, you attack, you attack the agents of the crown,

like, we're, we're going to kill your people. And Moseley said, that's barbaric. Like, you can't do that. You know, he's like, I can't co-sign this. You can't murder regular Catholic people because, because our guys are going down in theater, you know, and he's like, I don't care with the, with the IRA does. You can't do that. You know,

uh, so obviously the Ulster man like, uh, a quarter of them looking at him. I'm like, well, what, do you like tags or something? You know, race trader, class trader. You know, like that, uh, so this is where he was at. And in the 60s, one of the inter, one of the, one of the, when he was doing his, like, kind of like, round of interviews late in life, he popped up a lot on British media in the, in the 60s and early 70s. And one of these typical BBC types

was was, you know, trying to put him on the spot a matter of race and stuff. And this is especially too, because this is one like Inuk Powell was at the peak of his clout. And Moldy said, look, you know,

he's like, you know what happened to me? He's like, he's like my own former comrades wanted me dead because I took the side of the Irish, you know, in a sense. You know, like you said that Ulster needs to be partitioned and get part of the UK, but he's like, let, let the Republic go. Don't try and force him into some kind of,

into some kind of, you know, like treat them as men, you know, and don't try and force them into some kind of lesser dominion status as the price of home rule. But he said, he's like, look, he's like, I was in the same position as people on the right were who opposed the Vietnam War. He's like, I couldn't cotton what was going on here. You know, he's like, you think I did that? He's like, how did that help my life?

You know, did that, did that win me friends? Did it win me influence? You know, he's like, I became a pariah like among my own people. You know, and he's like, I, what did I get out of that? You know, and like he, and he had a point because Mosley, regardless of, what the court of public opinion, regardless of the tenor of it, you know, he did what he did according to principle. And apparently he was right on basically all counts. I part ways of them on the on the issue of Ireland in some respects, qualifiably. But, you know, I, as we get some

distance between, you know, as living memory of the warriors fades into the rearview mirror and the bully pulpit is no more, you know, people actually can speak on the 20th century in objective terms. Like, you can't say like mostly was wrong. Okay, what the UK is a better society now. They're doing great. You know what I mean? It's, I, it's not going to be able to to perpetuate itself beyond another generation. That doesn't mean like the white race in the UK is going to go extinct or something, but it's not in a good place. You know, but this is key, and I'm giving Mosy more time than probably some historical authors

a revisionist would because he's fundamentally important. You know, and I don't think he's granted enough ink or enough content. But, you know, this was a big deal. Like, the course is, his career talk as a parliamentarian. I can't remember if he got into this last time or not. And correct me if I'm repeating myself and I'll jump ahead. But, you know, Lloyd George, one of the things, one of the main catalysts for Mosey wanting to pursue a parliamentarian's career was to give his hero worship of Lloyd George.

And what can be known is the Shell scandal when George was, you know, he was a hero. when George was the armaments minister and he insinuated himself under that rule because owing to what was called the shell crisis in 1915 you know there was a casual

shortage of shells for heavy guns so the British Expeditionary Force they basically had no capability to bring a direct fire to bear on on the enemy, you know, and they got, they got slaughtered.

And Lloyd George, he became a hero to the frontline soldiers, you know, like airmen as well as, as well as the ground element in the infantry. And, you know, not just because George, I've stood up to the, these kinds of establishment interests and George had an aristocratic background but

he didn't really have any clout with with big business and the industrial concerns. Okay, but um... Air grid,

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But mostly turning on George, George is almost kind of like his father figure too. You know, because like we talked about, mostly had a very unhappy family life despite the fact that he'd minimize that and act like he had this great upbringing like he didn't. He was very close to his mom, but his father was, what was a real bully and a, and just like a shitty guy.

And unfortunately, Mosley, mostly never had his gambling and drinking vices, but he certainly had his, he certainly had his pussy-hounding vice, it was definitely not admirable. and it led to some really ugly incidents in Mosey's personal life, and it alienated him from his friends and all kinds of other things. But, you know, so what was he lost by basically defecting from a kind of liberal union slash Tory coalition?

I mean, they said a catastrophic effect on his personal life. You know, it can't be said to have been some calculated decision. But to take us back a bit, how Mosley got to this point where a house of common seat was a real stability. July 1918, that's when he was rendered, declared, quote, permanently unfit. That's the equivalent of being, you know, totally disabled under, like, VA criteria. And around this time, he was hanging around a lady named Maxine Elliott. Maxine Elliott, she was kind of like some of Yaki's female patrons. She was like an older lady.

She'd been a silent film actress who have some repute. And she owned her own studio. And there was only a handful of actual movie studios in those days, you know, like 19-teens. Like, let alone, like, some lady and some actress, like, owning one. Like, that was a big deal, especially considering that. the stuff was all run by by gangsters. You know, this was,

this was like the cusp of Silver Age Hollywood. But Maxine Elliott was American, but she'd relocated to the, to the UK. Her kind of

common law husband, I can't remember if they were actually married or not. He was a younger guy. He was a Pommie. He was like an Englishman, but who had Australian citizenship.

he was a younger guy because Maxie and Elliot was still she still had her feminine wiles in the middle age and he he answered the call to go fight in World War I and like within days of being deployed to the front like he got killed so she was really heartbroken

and she dedicated herself to these kinds of charitable relief efforts you know for like civilians impacted by the war but in like a real way and I didn't like a lame like Bono way like look at me I'm so great You know, like she was little key about it, but, you know, she threw her substantial fortune at, like, relief for, like, displaced persons and stuff like that. But she also, um, she, she, she liked, uh, you know, she was into soldiers and there's no evidence that Mosley and her, like, were, had, like, a romantic relationship.

And by that point, I mean, he was with a kid. He was, like, 19, 20 years old. And she was, you know, she was, she was, like in her 50s or something. that probably was not on the table. But, you know, she, these kinds of, she had a lot of, like, right-wing studs, as we'd think about it, kind of, like, in her orbit. And she liked young guys hanging around her estate, and a lot of Churchill's cronies that kind of call on her to, you know, try and sort of, like, win her favor.

Because Churchill was always short of money, you know, and obviously, like, they were nosing around for money. and the Freddie guest. If that's not like a limy name, I don't know what it is, but he was the chief whip of Lloyd George's, the

Lloyd George liberals in the coalition government. And he was actually a cousin and like a crony at Churchill. Like he was always hanging around. And because of Mosley's, because of Maxinelli, it's like affinity for Mosley.

This opened a lot of doors for him in part. And I guess she and some of her male friends, they really encouraged Molesley and told him, like, look, you've got to represent the war generation in parliament. Because, like, we don't have a voice. You know, like, the front fighters don't have a voice in the House of Commons. And even, like, Lloyd George is a good man, and he helped us when we were under fire, literally. But even he doesn't really understand.

you know um so the guy really stepped in as kind of mosey's patron was sir harold nicholson who was a really crazy guy uh like like literally um mozzi had met him when sandhurst initially uh had expelled him sanders military academy was when mozie was a cadet he had a rivalry with some other upperclassmen. This is when Mosey was still, you know, a polo player before he transitioned to boxing and then fencing. But this guy was some upperclassman polo star and Moseley straight up knocked him out, I think, in the dining hall. And obviously, like, much as Sanders cultivated, it kind of controlled loudishness, like chin-shaking an upperclassman,

like, uh, that's not how we do things in the British Army. But Nicholson, who knew Mosley, and Niggelson was pretty obviously gay. He had a wife who left him for a time for another woman, like very decadent aristocrat stuff. But Niggelson, I think he, I think it's clear like he was literally attracted to Mosley. And that was not reciprocated in sexual terms. But Niggleston intervened and he basically pulled strings and said like, look, give Cadet Mosley another chance. You know, it's important to me.

And, you know, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you, you're, you, you know, get, uh, get, uh, a second chance. But, uh, Nicholson was an interesting guy. I mean, aside from, like, whatever degenerate habits he had in his personal life, even born in Tehran, you know, uh, when, when, when Tehran was the capital of Persia, like properly Persia. He was the youngest son, the Baron of Carnac, one Arthur Nicholson. So he'd spent his childhood like all over the world. You know, he'd been posted to St. Peter, or his father, like his family, he posted at St. Petersburg, to Madrid, to Bulgaria, to the Tangiers.

Or Tangier, I was thinking of the casino. But, you know, he, you know, he, he'd staked out a career in the foreign office. By the time, you know, Mosley, he made Moses' acquaintance. And so when Mosley got, you know, permanently, like, discharged in the Army, Niggleston got him a job with a foreign office and, you know, made sure that he had what he needed, you know. And Niggleston had a heterodox perspective. he was very much

he was very much part of the war party you know once hostilities got underway but he had no truck with the you know the kind of incessant war mongering that you know towards the the Germans that emerged from some quarters

you know like we talked about in some of our previous series this wasn't just demented people like like Vansettart. I mean, obviously, people like him led the charge in critical ways, but the empire was really rudderless. And as we see in America, you know, since 1989, and especially in the 21st century,

you know, in the last 25 years in earnest, you know, whether, I mean, there aren't empires in the original sense anymore, but, you know, you're talking about an empire or a superpower or you're talking about any political structure at scale, if it doesn't have a dedicated oppositional actor towards which to kind of orient policy and can figure the literal architecture of the state, this causes real problems. You know, so there was this kind of need to keep, Germany in the figurative and literal gun sites, you know,

to a lot of these kinds of government careers. But Nicholson really wasn't like that. And that's one of the reasons why if there's something that exonerates or validates the claim that you need traditional aristocracy and government as like a moderating tendency. And that's kind of what underlies a lot of what people like Hans-Therman-Hop advocate, like if you read between the lines I don't

particularly shed a perspective but it's a serious perspective and in the historical record I'd say guys like Nicholson kind of represent that tendency but Nicholson also he'd been close to

Eric Drummond who like he worked as a private secretary Nicholson did. And Drummond was the first secretary general of the League of Nations. So I think a lot of Malsy's early ideas on, okay, we can take a league of nations and, look, forget the Utopian, you know, kind of flourish around it when it's discussed in chambers as well as public wise. we can transform this into a collective security apparatus, you know, which is desperately needed. You know, and I speculate that came directly from Nicholson.

And that's, you know, this is where Moseley derived this stuff. Nicholson grossly offended General Razakon. Raysa Khan deposed the last shot and ensured himself under the peacock throne Um it uh Negelson said that Raysa Khan was quote A bulletheaded man with the voice of a sickly child

Um That probably sounds a lot more devastating if you If you put like the gloss of an estuary accent on it But this made This made uh This made uh This made Ray's a con really upset. And it made, like, all the Iranians really upset.

And so it made the foreign office upset as a consequence of that. And Nicholson kind of got, was, like, out bad from then on. But, you know, he, um, but by that point, you know, he'd already, um, kind of helped uh, nudge Mosy along in the ways that he needed. But, um, the uh sorry let me call my outline here um yeah

mostly when he finally uh the constituency that finally adopted him was a hero which is no longer a constituency um in the house of commons I uh I won't bore the subs with um

the kind of finer points of like UK gerrymandering but it was um you know mostly kind of seemed like a good fit because if not in terms of true geography or class or character or vocation of the constituents it was very much kind of like in spirit like a middle england constituency and um you know having a guy who wasn't a traditional aristocrat but he had some of that pedigree and it was a war hero and basically had a martial bearing. Like, it was like a natural fit, you know.

And that's where he found himself. It's, you know, and it's significant, too, because obviously, like, a patriotic guy like Mosley, especially, like, a young guy. You know, he'd intended when he first entertained the possibility. of going into politics, you know, to enter as a conservative member of parliament. You know, and he had no university education because he'd been in the service. You know, he was driven basically by, you know, a kind of passionate, like, English patriotism and, like, a belief in the empire. And, you know, the Church of England and the British Army.

and the fact that, I mean, don't get me wrong, like the liberal unions were an essential part of that coalition, but there was something different, you know. And this also, this is why he was in demand, you know, both conservatives and labor were trying to poach him for to fill their vacancies, you know, for the reasons we just talked about. and the fact that he got taken in by the unionist wing of the liberals.

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as regards the Crown's response to Fainian guerrilla activity, you know, he basically defected. I mean, that that's kind of a pure crisis of conscience. We can't look inside the mind of any man or woman. And even if you know somebody, intimately, there remain idiosyncrasies that render judgments like that. But so we can derive or speculate on the motives of any man in public life with any semblance of accuracy. I don't think that there's any case that is more kind of clear-cut than that of Mosley and his change of heart, as it were. But, yeah, interestingly, too, but it tracks with the epoch.

Mosley was an early Keynesian disciple, and I believe that, In part, when you look at what the BUF program was in terms of how it broke down management of labor and capital into these publicly managed corporations, quite literally. And, you know, key industry was subsidized while at the same time abandoning a protectionist regime of tariffs. That's 100% keys, you know, and I'm very much. I'm very much an American, and I'm a dyed-in-the-wolf supply cider. You know, I mean, Keynes is garbage, and I know something about economics, but you've got to put this in context. There were no supply-siders in the 1920s, okay?

The idea was industrial capitalism, not only does it lead to intolerably catastrophic outcomes for the working. classes, like, you know, a true tragedy of the commons at global scale. But pre-information age and even pre-digital age, when you literally had accountants dealing with corporations that in some cases were global and scale, and they were keeping the books with an abacus, okay? You understand how people would think, like, well, the only way to eliminate uncertainties leading to catastrophe and the only way to manage critical

shortfalls in the ability of a capitalistic structure to provide for human needs is if we basically plan from inception what our production schema is

as much as possible without killing the golden goose. That's where a lot of this came from. Okay. And then obviously after 90, 20, it was it was just like an absolute you know that's just this is the way things are there was no countervailing tendency that's why people i mean some of these people are just dishonest i'm talking about like academic types or like oh you know hitler was a socialist who didn't really believe in capitalism or oh you know moseley was just another laborite you know but you know he

was also a racist that's that's that's completely off base just in brass tax terms You know, if people want a more complete treatment of that, read Murray Rothbard's history of the Great Depression, or read what James Burnham wrote about macroeconomics, and he wrote more than one might think. It was mostly in the form of submissions to periodicals and essays, but, you know, the, there was no, really until the 70s, this is just the way people. thought, you know, at least in the quarters that mattered. I cite Schumpeter all the time because Schumpeter really was, Schumpeter's two-valium-O-P is business cycles. It's an incredibly difficult read. But I consider it to be the most important statement on economics of the 20th century,

and I'll die on that hill. But beyond that, it's also, it's a, director of but old two keys. Okay. But that's viewed as very heterodox these days, unfortunately.

But when Mosley entered politics, the war was still raging. In 1918, you know, the degree to which an entire

generation of British youth got blown to hell in France and Belgium. They can't really be overstated. Like one of the things this is on my mind and forgive me if it's too tangential or

people think it's a corny thing to invoke a symbolic precedent, but I mean, let's know a lot of Pink Floyd lately. I really like the reliance. I really like the last record, the division bell, and obviously

that's the Gilmore era, but I was rewatching the wall while I was like working on some long form stuff. And, uh, you know, um, there's two, uh, you know, this segment where, um, Hank, who's obviously, Roger Waters, he's like this little

kid and he's at the park and like nobody's a father. It's much like women and old men and little kids. And, um, and obviously Waters' dad died in the war. you know that that's the way it was it's like there was just like this missing generation you know um the uk recovered somewhat germany bounced back demographically

France never recovered and that's one of the things that took them down as as a great power but in any event as as 1917 became 1918 um their basey was no more manpower this was a bunch of like teenage conscripts who were like taking the place um in these uh line companies that had suffered catastrophic like 150 percent expression you know so there was there was no enthusiasm to continue this conflict you know it was like it was a bunch of it was a bunch of high school age boys like being like ripped off the farm or like ripped out of the factory and they're like mom and dad's house and like sent to the slaughter and nobody was coming home You know, um, so the end of the war, when the armistice just finally arrived, there was just like tremendous kind of like outpouring of emotion.

No less from, you know, Moseley himself who, who, who, who'd been there, you know, um, and when the armistice was signed, it's interesting, Mosey's oldest son, Nicholas Moseley, he said that he never saw his dad. He said his dad was like impassioned and like emotional in the sense that he'd get very fervent and angry. But he said he never saw, he never saw him get emotional in terms of, you know, losing control of his, of his feelings other than when he discussed the war. And Nicholas Mosley said, he said anytime World War I came up, his father, like, he'd speak like with a genuine sense of horror, you know, and, uh, Nicholas said a few times he saw like tears well up in his eyes just when people would casually bring up the war. And like Moses would like recuse himself. Like this wasn't an act. You know, um, and so like the enormity of this experience, it kind of caused him to like reexamine things.

You know, and he, he made the statement later in life after the BUF days, after World War II, But before he began pushing the revitalized European nation concept, like he said that, you know, the reason why, like, Providence or fate, I think is what he assigned as the causal agent, had like brought into politics was you know because he had he had he had he had to represent like all the men who paid the ultimate price you know and he had uh he had to stand up for britain so that it could survive but he had to see to it that this never ever happened again you know and that probably sounds messianic to people who don't really understand what forative experiences like that are like and i mean yeah there's got to be like a strong component of of eocentrism, if you're going to nominate yourself for that kind of ambition. But, you know, it's not a matter of coveting clout or prestige. You know, and the life of Mosley, it didn't go the way of, like, the life of Churchill, the life of Tony Blair. Like at every key juncture,

Mosley made a decision that put him at odds with powerful people and with interest that had become entrenched in, you know, the new establishment. You know, it can't be said that any man would pursue this course in order to somehow enrich himself or to guarantee his own posterity by, you know, situating himself on the side that would be favorably

documented by court history. But the key kind of event to like post armistice was

well I mean the first kind of the fall of Asketh as as Prime Minister previously, which had facilitated Lloyd George's

ascendancy. That's what it split the Liberal Party into the Unionist faction and, you know, I guess it would be the moderace. But it was the end of the war

and the issue of Ireland that really brought down the coalition and Mosley and again him basically siding not with the Athenians but with Ireland the Irish as a people that wasn't like the sole proximate cause

obviously but it was an essential cause you know and so there's that too and it um I uh I think that that um speaks for itself

but the um they find my place here sorry most is another big thing too that put him somewhat at odds with kind of everybody um not just uh on the front bench of the coalition

but also the moderate labor rights were willing to reach across the aisle. He'd opposed the public education structure as it existed for the same reasons that some of these utopian progressives had. And that being that he basically viewed it as taxing the commons that kind of put forth an education that was determined by the Church of England, which meant that like non-conformist, you know, dissenters would have really like no option.

And they'd be kind of like mandated into, you know, an educational paradigm at odds with their culture and devised by, you know, their class betters. But he also said that, you know, the model has to be that the educational model has to be that of the Prussian system. or, you know, the American system. You know, and again, he was looking, he was looking basically towards, you know, although obviously people didn't think in terms of this vocabulary, literally or conceptually, he was looking forward and saying, like, we're going to have to become a superpower and change the way that we do things from the ground up, you know, from our, the way we approach, you know, labor and and management relations, you know, to this idea that, you know, we can, we can tailor our production

schema, you know, based on, you know, guarding markets for all time against competitor imports and, you know, well, if the, you know, if the funds. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area. and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community.

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You know, his idea was like, oh, that had to stop. And, you know, if you, the only way that the empire can manage those demands is, you know, you need a population that is basically competent in techniques, you know, and that has to be the focus of, you know, the educational system. And this was quite revolutionary at the time, you know. And again, in those days, too, state-centric models were like a foregone conclusion, in part by necessity. And public education wasn't this thing that's decades obsolete like today. Like, it actually had a purpose. I mean, you've got to, this was literally a century ago. You know, I can't emphasize that enough.

And nothing bothers me more than when people should know better try and project contemporary biases on new. past. And he said, too, like, he drew upon these, um, the kind of a lot of these, like, a lot of these utopian progressives, among them, field marshal Edmund Ironside, um, who commanded, uh, not just troops on the Western Front, but, um,

he'd, uh, served in northern Russia. with the white army and allied elements like he he was very much an imperialist and very much a British patriot but also very much a socialist and mostly making the point again and again

like look like being an imperialist and being like a socialist and and and and viewing you know like the the races that make up the UK like you know the the indigenous elements you know he's like you know, viewing an integral socialism. It's essential to our posterity. Those things aren't somehow mutually exclusive, like Northern Conflict. You know, and that is a point he came back to

again and again as the BUF got established. Is that the paradigm of class conflict, it runs far deeper in the UK than on the continent, and he acknowledged that, but, you know, that it was very much exploited for cynical reasons by, you know, by the,

and there's perverse incentives to sustain those kinds of tensions, to force political outcomes and to build coalitions and other things. You know, which is absolutely true you know but I wanted to deep dive into a lot of this stuff today because that's

that's really the context of the BUF and um it uh you know and like I said it much as Mosley was like a qualified racialist like he

you know he um he had a equitable view for a man of his station and um and cast it's um complicated the uh well as he cited joseph chamberlain a lot joseph chamberlain was um a um was he was related to um neville chamberlain and he was a liberal unionist who was pretty extreme in his opposition to home rule, but he also, he was among the founders of what was called the Birmingham Education League. Birmingham was his home constituency. And he, uh, he was an advocate of, uh, like, secular patriotic and mass education on the Prussian model. And, um, a lot of,

a lot of Chamberlain's ideas if you dig into like what he said on the floor of the commons and things a lot of that is like mostly like lifted it almost word for word. I don't say that punitively. I mean there's, but that's

the source of a lot of it. There was you know that, I mean, Moseley obviously wasn't any kind of arch unionist, quite the contrary. But, you know, this idea that was appropriating some continental tenancy that had no precedent in the UK, you know,

by trying to create this kind of pastige of socialist imperatives and, you know, kind of like imperialist, uh, fervor, like that, there's nothing in Congress about that, um, in terms of the, uh, was the political culture, which was then, like, still very much extant. the uh and mostly too like he thought he was taken in by this idea that um you know oh well okay you know these reforms especially the post 1848 reforms which mosley's family didn't look too highly upon the silver lining to mosley was that well you know this this this this creates new potentialities and he thought that like you know there there going to be some kind of like there be some kind of like there could be some kind of not like national palingenesis but kind of like revival of the political culture you know through parliamentary means and he very quickly became like disabused those ideas you know like he um he gave a long speech uh in support of the uh it was his maiden speech in support of what was called the aerial navigation bill um it was it was you know it proposed like kind of token for

funding and stuff for like, you know, civil aviations. And Mosey said like, no, he's like, look, the key to any other cutting edge technology is us mastering, you know, like a national culture of a civil and military aviation.

You know, and having been a fighter pilot, Moseley had obviously a lot of credibility to speak on this. You know, and he said, The fact that a lot of these parliamentarians, they're the dismissive of them as just some kind of young professional soldier who wanted to build himself up. I appealed a romantic subject matter. Or they just had no understanding what he was talking about. You know, you realize, you know, like, my God, we're in real trouble here.

you know um especially uh looking to america and you know even germany which was in a catastrophic state at the time you know they people uh in both respective states you know they had a far greater understanding of kind of the velocity and the kind of trajectory of technology as it was you know as it was at that moment you know

the British were really lagging you know which is one of the things that did them in you know I believe it wasn't inevitable but it was definitely a a necessary cause, one of many.

This, and his second speech he gave out aviation, he called for basically the elimination of the kind of military bureaucracy as it existed, like the military and diplomatic bureaucracy, which was more integrated in the UK than, in America except for maybe peak cold war. You know, there was a, uh, he said like, why, why is aviation civil and military? You know, why is it under partial control of the secretary of state for war and air? You know, um, why, why is there a parliamentary committee devoted to it, you know,

that has no actual expertise over the matter? You know, he said there should be one single, um, air chief, almost like a joint chiefs, or like the staff system that existed in Prussia and then the Kaiser Reich, you know, but obviously not devised for the exclusive purpose of military command. And Churchill took notice of this and started to kind of like, mimic what Mosey was the kind of facts and concepts that he was relaying about aviation. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area, and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

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to strike at the heart of the UK, such that, you know, he was in those claims presenting actual aviation concepts. Some of this stuff is directly lifted from like Mose's early aviation speeches, which is really interesting, but I'm surprising, and very much in character, but Churchill. But there's around this time, too, like 1921, 22. You know, in the immediate aftermath of him completely falling out with the liberal union front bench, he started speaking to the then current epoch is the, you know, the quality of the gods. You know, he's like, we're living in a period where, you know, where, like, the passing of the great race, you know, is, is upon us. And, like, we're that great race.

and we're watching ourselves essentially march into oblivion, periodically and literally. And this is model of aviation management and development at national scale. It attracted a lot of guys to his corporateist model, which at that point he becomes some of a gadfly in the commons

but he was viewed as a guy who had very serious ideas at least in terms of you know things that were

that were within his wheelhouse and he attracted a lot of prestige personalities to his ideas specifically with you know what he was proposing about

about aviation and adjacent technologies which is really interesting and that David Irving makes that point a lot not specifically about Mosley but his book on the Horizon Fall of the Luftafel

which is essentially like the in all but name it's like the memoirs of Earhart Milch you know Airhard Milch was incredibly important to the way the Third Reich developed. And in addition to being like a great general of the air arm, you know, and a war hero, he was also, he was the first, like, CEO of a commercial airline. you know and um this uh you know and linberg is a counterpart of this type in america you know this was um this was essential if the uk had been kind of less dysfunctional um like even if even if mozzi's

ideas hadn't been a resident in the way that he intended and you know even if even if the fascist tendency that he became the standard bearer of like never truly got off the ground if the had and totally committed suicide, like Moseley would have been assimilated into the ruling apparatus, and his talents would have been, you know, directed in constructive ways. This kind of waste of human capital is something that is so clear and so clearly catastrophic. And not just in the UK era, but it's kind of the seminal example. example, in my opinion. And I mean, that's apparent today, like in America, but it, um, there's, there's less of an

obvious pool of talent to draw upon who are willing to dedicate their time and waivers to business and government. And I guess back of that, obviously, that wasn't, that wasn't the case. You know, there was, um, there was a remarkably deep pool of incredibly talented men. I think I'm going to wrap up for now and I'll write about an hour anyway

but yeah well I promise I'll get into more like exciting and sexy stuff with the actual party of the BWF and I'll conclude with part four we might need to go for like an hour 15 or an hour and a half though

but if that's okay with you it's fine with me this Black Friday game stream and go full speed with one gig sky broadband and watch unmissable shows like all her fault on Sky. These nice people killing each other.

And Ballad of a Small Player starring Colin Farrell on Netflix. I've made some mistakes. Right, who hasn't? Get one gig Sky broadband, essential TV and Netflix, all for just 44 euro a month for 12 months. Our lowest ever price.

Availability subject location, new customers only, 12 month minimum terms, standard pricing thereafter. TV and broadband sold separately. Terms apply for more infoosies sky.8 slash speeds. Sure. One question before we go.

You mentioned the Spanglarian term their techniques. Can you just tell everybody what technique, how you describe techniques? It's one of those words in German that doesn't truly translate because of nuance. It refers to like actual technology, like the physical stuff of technology and like machinery.

But it also refers to like a conceptual paradigm, like technological thinking. So like when Spangler says techniques or when, any kind of German political philosopher or sociologist like says techniques like he means this entire kind of paradigm like the actual stuff

of technology the modality of thinking that incorporates it into political life the thought process that historically contextualizes it the moral implications that derive from it the kind of sociological

disturbances and benefits that stem from it. It's kind of like it's like a zeitgeist word as well as like a word that describes like a physical thing. Like that that's what it means. Cool. All right. Two plugs. Real quick. Yeah. I'm having a report. I have a lot of exciting things

going on. If you visit the substack that's where the bulk of my work product is. in terms of the podcast and like long form writing, it's real Thomas 777.substack.com. If you'll include my social media in the description, that'd be great.

My social media alt is at capital R-E-A-L underscore number seven, H-M-A-S-777. And I think, yeah, that's all I got. All right, until part four. Thank you so much, Thomas. Yeah, you're welcome. Take care. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekino show.

Thomas is here and we're going to continue the series on Mr. Oswald Mosley. How you doing, Thomas? I'm going well. Thanks for having me, as always. There's a critical aspect of British fascism that tends to be neglected. The UK and Japan, both, interestingly. There was

in the later Shoa era, the Japanese empire's economic profile it wasn't, the internal situation wasn't configured anything like the UK despite, I mean, superficial parallels between like monarchy

or something. If you want to draw such conclusions like some of these like midwit court historians do. But their financial system proved more robust than some. But there was still some pretty catastrophic effects. So like in 1929, the UK didn't end up like Germany and their structural unemployment wasn't as bad as the United States. But there was some pretty catastrophic problems.

and people forget the UK went off the gold standard. There was this mutiny, like an out-and-out Royal Navy mutiny, because both officers and enlisted saw their pay cut by something like 25% in real terms. Okay. And it was explained that, well, these are austerity measures. And the leadership element of the Royal Navy, I mean, obviously, the direct line to, not just to the crown, but, you know, but to the prime minister. And they were trying to give all these assurances, but, you know, to no avail.

And that kind of thing is a way of catching fire proverbially. I mean, that's what in the, I mean, that's what happened in the finalized of the Great War and the German Empire. Okay. and the Royal Navy had outsized clout for obvious reasons, the people who know the culture or the UK. So this was pretty catastrophic. Mosley, the way he came to fascism, you know, we talked a lot about his class origins being discreetly congruous with that sort of trajectory. You know, and I make that point a lot in my own work product and stuff because this idea that it was opportunistic or cynical, was asinine because nobody would have taken on that kind of rogue's, you know, position if he,

if he didn't believe in it and plan on seeing it through despite the consequences. But, you know, Mosley also, he, he was a genuine front of the working man. And he had, like, he had an integralist view of what, you know, of what progressive politics should look like. and something else to keep in mind too one of the reasons why especially in the UK like everybody was a Keynesian like right and left

and everything in between the reason people were susceptible to that error is because the entire global financial system nascent as it may have been in comparative and absolute terms had completely collapsed

and these uncertainties couldn't just be allowed to resolve themselves over the next decade or two decades. There would have been, you would have been just capitulating to revolutionary conditions. And had there not been an out-in-out communist revolution, there would have been like a total collapse of state institutions, such that the confidence of the body politic would have evaporated and people would have resorted to self-help in ways that would have culminated in a literal anarchy. And even guys like Schumpeter who was, you know, I believe that Schumpeter's business cycles is like the academic rebuttal to Keynes. Schumpeter was no kind of demand cider, okay, like at all. Quite the contrary.

But even he favored one-time shock therapy, you know, because he was commissioned to try and help resolve the American situation. early on before he became persona non grotto with the new dealers you know and he favored you know like an infusion of about five million dollars which uh i can't give the exact figure adjusting for inflation but that was a tremendous amount of money in 1929 he favored like uh um a shock therapy um flooding of a of a currency markets with public funding as like a one-time event that uh would uh try that would that would sort of stop or at least mitigate the deflationary spiral okay so everybody there was not a single person who had like a lazy fair view at this point and you really couldn't and in shumperner's view he said look like you know the yes there will be

corrective structural features in coming decades, but the political system won't abide that. So it doesn't matter if that's incorrect in terms of pure macroeconomics. That was a bit of a digression, but it was a sense and I'll understand the political situation in the UK. So what, in real terms, what this led do was the emergence of the national government in the United Kingdom. And this was basically unprecedented. You know, and again, the economic slump, while not as catastrophic in the UK, it was the most severe it had ever been in history.

A key figure that kind of compromised confidence in the government in the immediate aftermath of in the immediate aftermath of the 1929 crash Philip Snowden first Viscount Snowden um he was the he was the minister of the exchequer

and um which for a practical purpose that's like a cross between like a cabinet position at the head of the treasury as well as being like chairman of the federal

reserve if such things existed then he was basically the chief financial officer of the crown you know and he he was uniquely like labor interests had a unique sympathy for him okay because he

he kind of built his reputation as a rhetorician and sort of a dynamic figure with these denunciations of capitalism and a kind of encyclopedic knowledge of monetary theory and things. You know, the problem was like there was no real substance theory. It was just that. It was knowledge of elaborate trivia. And he was the first chance for the other.

Exchequer who represented the Labor Party. But he broke with what was official labor policy in 1931 vis-à-vis austerity measures, and he got expelled from the party. And then later that year, labor was crushed by the national government coalition. And he was succeeded as a chance of the exchequer by Neville Chamberl. interestingly. I mean, I think Chamberlain would have eventually become prime minister anyway, but it was the crisis situation that really sort of leapfrog chamberlain into the role.

But at the helm of the national government coalition was McDonald's, James McDonald, James Ramsey McDonald. He went by Ramsey McDonald. He's kind of a forgotten prime minister. And that's a major blind spot, even of a lot of revisionist. Not just court historians because he was fundamentally important. McDonald had been one of the founders of the labor party, along with Tier Hardy and Arthur Henderson. And he had been a staunch opponent to the Great War, and he never wavered. from that perspective.

And he basically, he was able to break ranks with labor in doctrinal terms in the wake of the Invergarten mutiny, which is what I just referenced at the outset of this discussion. but you know and he um he formed a and he also he was able to court the tory the tories who defected to the national coalition because uh he promised to uh carry out austerity measures that would

defend and protect the gold standard so it would survive as like the basis of monetary politics policy, which failed, and that's one of the things that took down Ramsey's government. But the phraseology that he employed in 1931 and calling for general election was he said, I need to quote, doctor's mandate to fix this economy. You know, and again, like, people are going to look at that and go, that's just typical, like, interventionist Keynesian socialism. I'm like, yeah, it is, but you can't consider this, you know, in, in, like, 1960s or 70s or 80s terms or today's terms. You know, I think McDonald would have advocated that anyway just because of his understanding of economics or, like, misunderstanding, if you will.

But to say there was a fertile ground for those kinds of proposed administrative remedies to macroeconomic. frailies. It doesn't even begin to describe it. It was a totally different world. And information awareness and the ability to manage data at scale in real time,

that has totally and completely changed everything in terms of fiscal policy, economic planning, consumer confidence, the trajectory of money, the way people approach stocks and capital investment,

meant like everything. Okay, it's like comparing mathematics by abacus to mathematics by like a 1960s supercomputer. If you'll allow an imperfect metaphor. But this was the backdrop that Moseley was dealing with. You know, and he, you know, he was about the youngest parliamentarian, save a Phenian candidate who was boycotting the common. you know, when he began, when Moseley began, his political career, you know, he was kind of perfectly, Mosy, I mean, he was kind of perfectly situated to represent, like, a revolutionary tendency that was at the same time patriotic, you know, um, Mosey started talking right around this time.

He had a, uh, a more than casual friendship of the H.G. Wells. and he started talking about corporatism and he said look the only chance of successful progress in this country and really the only way we're going to salvage the United Kingdom and salvage Britain not just as a society that's not wrecked by class war and that retains an integral culture and moral consensus but like the only way that Britain is going to endure as a world power

you know is we've got to find a way to cooperate with you know the the kind of top intelligency of big business um wells uh interestingly one of his lesser known works these days it's uh it was like a novella you'd probably describe it in terms of length and and sort of narrative um structure it's called the autocracy of Mr. Pelham. And it's basically sort of like the, like an Anglo-Saxon version of Citizen Kane, but it's about this fascist political leader who's kind of like an anglophone Mussolini. And it's really, it's interesting, you know,

and this is going to become significant in a moment in terms of what we describe as far as this, like, temporal snapshot of Moseley's career as well as the European situation. Mussolini at this point was viewed as a heroic individual and people like them. You know, that's why some years later, the Four Powers Pact, which when ultimately, like the signatories put pen to paper, or figuratively and literally, the substance of it had been gutted by redaction, But Mussolini was viewed as this, like, dynamic savior of Italy and a man who was, like, on the cusp of, you know, like, the new political theory and praxis. And Italy was an important country then.

You know, like, I'm not trapping Italy. I think Italians are great. And I think Italy is an awesome culture. but Italy had they were far more significant not just in power political terms but in cultural terms you know like

a lot of trends like emerged from there kind of like the way kind of like the way people looked at the UK in the 60s you know which was kind of like the last gas but like the UK is like cultural relevancy on the world stage

okay like in political terms, like, that's kind of people view to Italy. And this was augmented by the fact that on the continent, but especially in Italy, like the arts and cultural product had this outsized impact on politics and vice versa. You know, so the fact that these, like died in the wall, like Anglos, as well as, as well as some of these, on the other side, some of these like Irish Catholic and Thainian types, Like, look at Mussolini as, as, as, um, like a heroic, like, man, you know, like a man's man. And, and the kind of, the kind of, um, the kind of revolutionary who can reconcile, you know, the, the, the, the, the, the class war, um, crisis.

You know, that, that wasn't, like, Mus, that, that wasn't just, like, um, agee wealth and, um, and, and Mosely being a couple of eccentrics. That was a not uncommon thought or sentiment. And George Bernard Shaw was another figure in this kind of early Mosey Milloo. And I made the point a lot. And the guy who wrote, there's this interesting academic. I think he was at University of Vermont. He's the guy who wrote this really good biography of William P.

Pierce, that Pierce collaborated on. It was called Fame of a Dead Man's Deeds. I believe the guy's name is Robert Griffin. But Griffin wrote a really good book about British fascism, and he talked about how George Bernard Shaw was an essential cultural figure in that Milo, and he was, and people totally misunderstand this. I don't know if it's deliberate because they don't want to credit an important literary giant with having anything to do with fascism.

I don't know if it's just ignorance. But, you know, like man and Superman, which we'll get into in a moment, like the stage play, that's both like an Ichian parable, but it also is like a political metaphor in defense of fascism, okay? And Shaw was a...

shot directly behooed young Mosley he said look you've got to you've got to break with labor you've got to break with the labor party and you've got to start you've got to start a new movement you know it um

and he's like you can't you've got to avoid the you've got to avoid the impulse to moderate or to compromise like McDonald did you know and this was when McDonald's on his way out he's like that didn't that didn't save the prime minister it's not going to save you either but also obviously like shaw's

sensibility was one of extreme vitalism and historical situatedness so we you know he's like we this is something that's that transcends like parliamentarism and anything like that um shaw later stepped back from involvement in party politics oblique or otherwise but i i see no evidence that he ever changed his mind, you know? And, um, but that's, that's a, that's an essential influence, even more so than,

um, some of these, uh, what's that? Can I interrupt, um, yeah, most people would relate Shaw and, um, Wells more to the Fabian society. I mean,

H.C. Wells's four volumes set. I read his four volumes set on, um, the history of man. And it's very, it's almost like a progressive Bible. Oh yeah. And Wells wasn't any kind of fascist. But I think Shaw

basically was. You know, but the one of the reasons why the communists were always saying that fascism is just like a crisis modality of capitalism and that's why it's so insidious and

it's hijacking the labor movement and poisoning the minds of the proletariat. There's a reason why they that was such a grave area of concern and why it like stirred their hostility so much. Because fascism was what a lot of people in part probably subconsciously wanted to see develop, but they didn't have the conceptual vocabulary yet to. describe it, but they could identify it when they saw it. And especially in the UK, the roots of this kind of toxic secularism was already like well underway. So, you know, if you were, if you're a part of like polite society and you're going to like a bide bourgeois convention about what's morally appropriate, well, you're any, any kind of radical or dynamic,

ideas you have, you're going to suggest that those energies be mitigated by appeals to utopian socialism and garbage like that. But Wells, I don't think Wells was particularly political. I think Wells, he obviously read a lot of Carlisle and he had a belief in messianic personages in

history and he thought hero worship was a good thing. And he liked Mussolini. and a lot of left-wingerers like Mussolini. But, I mean, some of them for half-baked reasons and for a thing, you know, for ill-understood, ungrads of ill-understood, you know, concepts and incomplete understandings, but a lot of them who were sophisticated like Mussolini for reasons that aren't inconsistent with, you know, the core of that ideological culture. So that's important to keep in mind.

And already at this time, Mosley's enemies were talking about him as like the English Hitler, you know, which was something of a backhanded compliment because Hitler at this point was what was killing it. you know um 1929 was the real breakthrough um you know but uh you know so moseley this all this is this culminated moseley um establishing the new party like literally he called it the new party um moseley and his first wife who also at that time was a member of parliament and um they were joined by a cadre of uh labor rights who defected and Volity was able to

court their loyalty by the dissemination of what can be known as the Mosley memo. It was basically capitalizing how we talked about a minute ago, this enthusiasm for

Mussolini that was born of a, you know, a belief in the need for like an interventionist restructuring of the economy and a belief that an nascent, globalized economy, you know, variables could not be left to uncertainty, awaiting structural correction because it would lead to one tragedy of the commons after another. You know, the people like the Nunzio and F.T. Marionetti, among British society and literary circles, they were respected. Like, literate people read them and admired their output. You know, Shaw himself around this time, he said that Mussolini exemplified true socialism more than any British laborite. I mean, part of that was probably he liked to be an iconoclass, but he wasn't wrong. I mean, as it should be clear to anybody who is familiar with the irrelevant lore and source material.

And there was also, there was this kind of just like fixation on Caesarism at the time in the UK. There was a whole bunch of like pop history books that came out about the Roman Empire. there was this one popular historian named George P. Baker. He wrote this book called Sulla the Fortunate, The Great Dictator. There was another book he wrote on Hannibal. There was a bunch of popular biographies of Julius Caesar. And they virtually all of them contained these sorts of polemic about the contemporary relevance of, you know, of Caesarism and how, like, dictatorship

is not this evil thing, you know, and how history, particularly crisis modalities they're in, you know, they select for, you know, heroic personage is, like, rising to the occasion, you know, and, you can't just, like, one of the problems, you know, you know, you know, one of the problems, you know, the part of the malaise as well as part of the callousness that's led to class war in the UK is just kind of like writing off the suffering of the laboring classes as well. That's just, you know, the tragedy of history. You know, that's just, you know, creative destruction, you know, where that's just, you know, corrective mechanisms mean that some people are going to, entire classes of humans are going to proverbially drown, you know, while others, you know, swim and thrive. You know, so. there was a much more organic kind of foundation. The emergence of a British fascism of like a true sort, because like we talked about last time, kind of the early iterations of like British fascism.

It was basically these like out of touch Tories who they liked the anti-communism of Mussolini and the fascists and they like the pageantry and optics, but they didn't really know what the hell they were talking about. you know, or they were like Symbolan like white racialists like Arnold Lee's who

were trying to extrapolate you know like Darwinian reductionist nonsense to you know to power political affairs you know that but that that kind of that kind of bullshit had

largely been swept away by you know the climate of post 1929 for reasons like what I just enumerate or elucidated rather. So the new party, it was as a sentence, he was

brief and kind of meteoric. And the foundations of what became the British Union of fascists were absolutely laid during this kind of nascent phase. It's December 6, 1930,

that Moseley he published an expanded and properly annotated version of the Mosley memorandum which Mosley and his wife

who was also a member of parliament like I said lady Cynthia and 15 of these defecting waiver MPs signed off on it was February 931 mostly formally resigned from labor. He lost a new

party the following day March 1st, 931. Excuse me. And most of these guys, most of these defecting labor rights said in the House of Commons as independence. A couple resigned

because there's what become clear in hindsight. this early kind of cadre that Moseley built around himself, with some exceptions. Some of these people weren't really committed. And even if they were, they didn't, they didn't really... They kind of viewed Moseley as trying to insinuate himself in like a kingmaker role and a spoiler element.

And if that makes any sense. And they figured that, you know, we'll be able to reconstitute the government, like, within... you know, the parameters of what's feasible, you know, according to the political situation, you know, according to, like, what we want to accomplish in terms of, you know, repealing these austerity measures and creating some kind of corporate structure that will have permanent legs. That was not realistic for a lot of reasons, but that's also not what Moseley was trying to do. And I'll get into what I mean in a minute.

What Moseley was able to do, he started being able to attract money, particularly from some of the lesser nobility. And most significantly from this guy, Lord Newfield, who was trying to carve out a presence in print media. and Mosley, what he always coveted, he knew that William Randolph Hurst was an admirer Mussolini. I'm getting a little ahead of myself, but Mosley's objective was to capture a patron like Hurst. But what he got was about 50,000 pounds sterling from Newfield,

which he utilized to launch a magazine called Action, which later kind of morphed into the British Union of fascist newspaper but as the new party got underway there was an information blackout

from the establishment so this was especially imperative the new party produced a film it was like one half propaganda film like one half statement of their like platform and core principles. It was edited by Harold Nicholson, who was, who was, he had his hands in print media and

in the newspaper and publishing industry as well as in, you know, like the nascent film industry. You know, he was, in the early days, you could kind of view him as like the new party information minister. And this film was actually very professionally done, but it was the

censors banned it on grounds that it would quote, bring parliament into disrepute. And there was one, it was, the film was interspersed with dramatic reconstructions and, you know, staged

scenarios with actual footage and there was some film and some parliamentarians literally sleeping while Commons was in session and that's what they focused on. They're like, this is a slanderous you know, this is a hit piece on the commons. You know, it's trying

to bring the government to do this repute, you know, which was obviously nonsense and basically without precedent, other than during wartime. time. You know, um, most importantly,

what Mosey did it this time, he established a direct action militia. Later, they became the Black Shirts. Um, colloquially, they were called the Biff Boys. Um, the captain of this militia was, um,

this English rugby star named Peter Howard. and Moseley's notion was, you know, we've got, I mean, Moseley was kind of a roughneck character anyway. You know, at Sanders, you know, he was known for brawling and stuff, like just for shits and kicks as well as to defend Maders of honor. You know, he'd been a boxer until some of his superiors and sort of, um, mentors like advised him you know you you should take up a gentleman's sport um like fencing so that's what he did but you know mostly he really did have like a thug element to him you know and uh so i mean he he enjoyed that kind of stuff but also it was essential and he saw the writing

on the wall and um even at this time he'd been watching what the hitler government was um was doing um or when the national so he was watching like what the national solace had been doing when they broke through to the to the to the rites like this is before um this was just before hitler was made chancellor rikes kosler but uh you know um he realized that uh you know the least our problems are are going to be the fact that you know our movies aren't aren't shown in the cinema and there's a blackout on our affairs and our successes in print media. You know, we're going to have to fight it out in the street if we're going to break through like the National Socialists did and like the fascist did. And like I said, although most of what the new party, most of its sociological

the kind of infrastructure was shed. By the time they rebranded as the BUF, but the new party the new party youth militia, which became the black shirts, like that remained. The first electoral contest

was that it was for, there was a by-election for Ashton-under-Land-Line line because the MP had died in office. Alan Young, who was an early Mosley accolite, stood against William Risdon. And the new party had only a thread door organization on the ground. Young pulled 15 or 16 percent, which effectively

did split the labor vote and allowed a conservative MP to return to the commons, which could be viewed as mission accomplished, because, I mean, that did force people to take the mostly organization seriously. But, again, even at this early stage, Mosley wasn't trying to position himself as spoiler, and he wasn't the purpose of the new party. it wasn't like the Dixie Crats or something who were, you know, had in mind what Wallace was trying to accomplish. I mean, what Wallace accomplished was remarkable.

In the American system, that was kind of a stroke of genius. So I'm not suggesting something punitive about that. But that's simply not what Moseley was trying to accomplish. The kind of critical event. or a juncture was uh when mosley in a delegation of a new party types uh went to rome mosey went to rome twice he went in in 19302 and 33 and uh the um both of these were instrumental in uh the fortunes of uh of what became the buf as well as in mosley's kind of personal development um

as a uh as a fascist and at this time too Mosley issued a statement and he said that uh he said that class war and particularly the situation of um the communists

and um some of the affiliated trade union movements he said that he said uh this was supposed to be an internal memo but it was it was leaked i think people speculate it might have been deliberately leaked by mosley himself i don't believe that but i i there might even some like ledgered main on the side of the new party that just just kind of bring attention to the organization but uh moz he was accused of welcoming

revolutionary conditions because he said that he said that we need we need some sort of class war um least the threat of it to facilitate what he called a provocative rather than tranquilizing effect. And he directly referred to the situation in Weimar and in Italy. And he was savaged in the mainstream press. He was called an anarchist. He was called a communist. He was accused in an open session of the comments. of, quote, cynically welcoming

disorder as a way of publicizing his readiness to deal with red disruption, end of quote. Malsi's rebuttal was, he said, our long-term purpose needs to, quote, to be to take control

in a revolutionary situation. Which is absolutely correct. But this made headlines quite literally, not just in the UK, but also on the continent. And this is also when he began openly within his inner circle, and particularly in the way he addressed the new party militia. He started pulling out the National Socialist Movement as the model

organization. In June 1931, he actually sent to emissaries, Major Thompson and Leslie Cummings to Germany to liaise with national socialists

and who talk to SA cadres and galiters and whoever else he gets an audience with about, you know, the direct action methods employed, you know, under revolutionary conditions. And they actually visited the Brownhouse in Munich, you know, National Socialist headquarters.

And this very much came from Mosley. The party had more of a committee structure. There wasn't the kind of pure principle. or equivalent, but mostly controlled the party's funds. And ultimately, I mean, policy emanated from him and his pen. You know, so the, it's not as if he, like, fell under the influence of, like, at the time, like, some of his, like, well-intentioned, but misguided friends. and this kind of mythology endured for decades for people thinking that this was like

they were helping Mosley or his memory like oh he just fell into the influence of fascists you know that this you know Mosley was was misled I mean that's not a sense I mean for all kinds of reasons that should be obvious but it but he wasn't he didn't come into the sway of of some like Nazi cadre or whatever

like you know whatever whatever some of these Tory types like admired and admire Mosley like the claim but that's also had the effect like Alan Young

you know who'd stood for who'd stood you know who'd challenged the by election on the new party ticket you know he he left the party immediately when it became clear that you know they were moving towards overt fascism.

Beaverbrook said correctly, he said any party that's going to challenge the establishment for the loyalty of the body politic, but especially, you know, like a fascistic element would require

immense sums of money, but also like a base of true journalistic support. You know, um, and in Moseley's view, you know, raising money, money is always a problem, but that's,

but it's a problem that's a problem that we remedied. Um, overcoming what he called, not incorrectly the conspiracy of silence in, in media was, was the real issue. And, um,

so I mean branding I mean not gonna be wrong he was a he was a doctored or fascist and kind of the pure purest sense but he he knew that

uh ran off hers for example um had invested over a million dollars in a Mussolini's cause early on

just for the sake of uh disseminating you know the the fascist position and and facilitating the psychological effect of it being, you know, like a truly ubiquitous movement. You know, and in those days, like print media was really the only game in town,

and like day-to-day electoral terms. You know, I mean, like, yeah, you visual media nascent as it was, it had a huge impact. But that was expensive. it was infrequent and you know you needed a you needed a you basically needed like a newspaper that was already established that would carry the um your propaganda needs you know and the the way the national socialists accomplished that was somewhat unusual but uh it was a very different media culture on the continent and especially in

Germany. And also, it was, I mean, this isn't a discussion of the, of the German situation, but it does need to be noted. You know, Hitler's barnstorming was something that made up for a lot of the, you know, a lot of these,

a lot of these kind of shortfalls in, in an active propaganda sector. But that wasn't feasible in the United Kingdom for a few different reasons. And also, like, the UK was only the first true kind of like newspaper culture, in my opinion. You know, like way more so than the United States. Although the United States, it was even more so than on the continent. But that's kind of a subject for its own dedication. pod. But when Mosley actually, when he visited Rome for the first time in January 1932,

he justified it to the party cadre as, you know, we need to study, you know, the modern fascist movement wherever it lives, you know. And he all, he intended on visiting, he intended on visiting the Soviet Union too, although it never came to fruition, because knowing as he did, that, you know, Mussolini spent a lot of time studying Leninist political warfare. The Soviet Union, as Stalin was truly kind of consolidating the political infrastructure. it wasn't really clear what the internal situation was in the Soviet Union

but what was clear was that against all expectations and against all probabilities you know a revolutionary cadre structure without real support in the body politic at scale was able to conquer the largest country on this planet,

you know, just for context. But in, and plus two, like Lenin had, there'd been a weird kind of conceptual discourse within the communists and Mussolini. Like before, in Mussolini's, revolutionary socialist days, Lenin had viewed him as like the most potentially

um if you've viewed him as the revolutionary on the continent with the most potential Mussolini um and interestingly Lenin believed that

Mussolini had been corrupted by his experience at the front and um that the adoption of the fascist party platform was both cynical and pragmatic and, you know, owing to communist epistemic assumptions, you know, well, you know, Mussolini was co-opted by capitals, you know, because this is just, you know,

a crisis modality of capitalism, and it's drawing upon symbolic psychology to, you know, to convince people that it represents a different tendency. when it's really just you know crisis mode industrial capitalism under like a different

apparently fresh guys but Mosley was treated like a celebrity in Italy which is which is interesting because Mussolini notoriously was

not welcoming of people who were for all, you know, pro-pranical purposes, like making Hajd to fascist Italy to, you know, pay homage to tell Duce or to try and glean

some, some esoteric knowledge of, of revolutionary ambition or something. Or political soldiery. You know, it's, um, but, uh, the Italians, I think,

had, um, a certain, the Italians and the English traditionally kind of respected each other, each respects the other for what they're not, for what they themselves are not. I think that's part of it. But, you know, it's also the key to, just as Hitler recognized, you know, Mussolini was more overtly ecumenical in ideological terms. I mean, Hitler was no German nationalist, quite the opposite. I mean, we've discussed that before. However, he was. I mean, Hitler didn't view national socialism as some ideological paradigm that was, you know, universally applicable to, you know, world historical processes. You know, that's why, with the exception of the independent state of Croatia, Hitler really didn't back you know like national socialist movements

like outside of the core of the right Mussolini believed in a fascist international quite literally and there actually was like a fascist international conference

which I think is a really fascinating topic in 1935 I think but be as it may like despite somebody conglously like musilini was notorious for snubbing you know

fascist cadres and their leadership element when they come to visit but Mussolini was was treated or Bosley was treated like you know

like a like a celebrity in Italy and um they uh interestingly too

and one of like Mose's biography is starting to fall back they didn't have fallen on one side or the other of this issue some people claim that Mosey wasn't at all anti-Semitic

I mean I don't like that term but just for the sake of you know intelligibility um fascist Italy in the they

there were race laws that basically reflected the Nuremberg laws that were passed later on, in part owing to a, I think, the brutalizing effect of the war, as well as the increasing influence of the Reich on their internal situation. So there wasn't this hard and fast, like racialism in Italy. but to say like they weren't like anti-Jewish in political terms I think is naive and just like incorrect. You know, Moseley had some prominent Jews in his inner circle, at least in the new party days. You know, Moseley being like an avid boxing aficionado throughout his whole. life. There's a

well-torway champion um Saul Mendeloff. He fought under the name Kid Lewis. You know, like he was like an ethnic Jew and he and he'd

he'd do security with um, you know, with what became the black shirts. You know, um, um, and, uh, he seemed very much to be on board with the program. He wasn't just doing it for money or

nothing on that order mostly never shied from the Jewish question later on but he he also never talked about it in biologically racialist terms

I think that owes the internal situation of the UK I don't think it owes to any emulation of Mussolini as some sort of moral arbiter of of fascist ethics or something, but

I just put that out there because I know what's going to come up, either in the comments or, you know, people are going to want to discuss it. I mean, it was fine. I'm not saying they shouldn't, but it was that was a

that was the true turning point, in my opinion. I think by 1931, mostly was a fascist and all but name, but after the return from Italy, and obviously it was, you know, it was near months, not years later, that the BUF was consolidated, essentially by a, um, a assimilating all the fascist elements that exhibited any viability and gameness in England and Scotland. Interestingly, one of the things that caused mostly the initial falling out with his national liberal fellows was on the Irish issue. and what he viewed as their, you know, abject callousness towards the Irish. In Scotland, many, if not most of the fascists of any significance, fascist's cadres,

they were arch-loyalists. They were very sectarian. And Billy Fullerton, he was a gangster, and he was the original Billy Boys, mob, you know, they were like a, they were a sectarian gang. And

he was a BUF, um, partisan. So that that led to kind of a delicate, um, situation,

which I think what it caused, uh, a real, um, rift. Had the BUF, um, for, had to,

I mean, the BUF's fortunes ultimately became in extricably bound up with that of the Axis and the German Reich for obvious reasons and the kingdom of Italy had had fascism endured

in a counterfactual historical scenario it's an interesting question like how the matter of Ireland and sectarian hostility would have played out but that's probably too kind of speculative and abstract

but I think we're coming up in about an hour I promise we'll wrap it up in the next episode I hope this was informative and entertaining to all the subs

and not just dry and trivial but like I said this is subject near and dear to my heart in addition to being you know very much in my very much kind of at the center of my research interest. So yeah, we'll reconvene in a few days.

I'm going on vacation this weekend. I know you know that, but I think I deserve a Thomas Cation. Like I travel a lot, but you know, that probably seems like I don't do much. Like on these traveling jaunts, like I got to do lots. We just saw each other in Atlanta. Yeah, man, which was great. Yeah, but I'll be back Sunday night and I'll be crossing tabs with a bunch of the OGC guys, so I'll give them your best.

Of course. Yeah. But yeah, we'll reconvene as soon as I get back, man. Yeah, I don't think anybody, any of the subs are going to complain about five episodes on Mr. Mosley. So do quick plugs. Yeah, for sure, man. The best place to seek out my content is the substack.

It's Real Thomas 7777 at subsec.com. I'm a good candidate with my friend Rake who edited our movie. When I get back from Arkansas, we're going to release the movie. And I'm going to release Steel Storm 2. And not Steel Storm 2, I mean, in addition also. I've got plenty of Mindphaser Season 3 content that is on schedule to be released biweekly going forward. But I know there's been some delays. and Steel Storm, and I want to keep people posted on the movie.

As soon as I get back, I'm going to decide the best way to upload it, like in terms of what platforms. And I'm very excited, and I think people will really enjoy it. But I'm on social media. My alt is at capital R-E-A-L underscore number 7, H-M-A-S-777. You can always visit my website. It's Thomas-777.com. But it's under construction.

I mean, you can still access it and stuff, but it needs work. And I've got a lot of my play right now, but that's going to get resolved, too, I promise. But, yeah, that's what I got. And that's all not feeling great. So forgive me if I, forgive me if this was less cogent than it should have been. I don't think anything. I don't think anything. I don't think anybody will be able to tell you we're sick.

This was great. Okay, no, thank you. I appreciate that. Until episode five, thank you very much. Yeah, thank you. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekinguono show. Thomas is here, and we will continue talking about Mr. Oswald Mosley. How are you doing, Thomas?

I'm doing well. There's two things that I think are very interesting about the period of about 1931. in 1933. You know, not just because that was the National Socialist Descendency, and that changed things globally, quite literally. But especially

it changed the perception of fascism. But not in ways that people might think in that early on, okay? And also, I made mention before that Moseley considered himself an

accolite of Keynes. and Keynes actually thought highly of Mosley and he endorsed his economic model you know and like later like the British establishment had a strange relationship with Keynes on account of this you know they'd held him out as kind of like the savior of

the global economy the nascent global economy so it was not anybody's interest to slander him or try and sideline him on grounds that he was some sort of unpatriotic fascist sympathizer, but they stopped trusting him after that. And, you know, I'll get into this too, but like the British Home Office, when it began clear moles, they had actual support. They issued the statement that was deliberately leaked about how, oh, the British Union

of fascists is populated by criminals and men who, find themselves in trouble with the law and, you know, and commoners and servants, you know, and men who don't have the skills to make it in the industrial economy. That was completely at odds in reality. You had a bunch of guys, the kinds of guys who ended up settling Rhodesia, you had a bunch of, like, really game NCOs for war heroes. You had a bunch of young guys who kind of had a resume like Orwell did. They'd been to Burma.

They'd been to India. They'd been to Africa. Like, these guys were. were adventure hungry, like, you know, kind of martial-oriented, like, like, very tough people. And they were kind of the backbone of the late British Empire. They were the kinds of guys who joined, like, the Black and Tans. Like, I'm not saying that's, like, a good thing to do, but, like, these are very aggressive people who believed in, you know, in Britain.

Like, there's the kinds of guys who, you know, like, joined the the answer to the call in Ulster you know the 36th Ulster Division and got creamed at the Somme

these are the guys who signed up to be constabulary police in Burma like that's one of the reasons why they were dangerous the establishment

see this is like the myth about like fascism and it's like in the one hand it's like oh fascists are a bunch of no account losers who live with their mom and can't stay out of jail

but then on the other hand it's supposedly the most dangerous people anywhere It's like which is it. You know, so that this this mythology very much you know,

that was kind of like the founding narrative because early on, Chamberlain's ascendancy after McDonald and when Churchill was kind of on the outside of everybody, you know, the British street didn't particularly like Hitler, but they viewed him like they did Mussolini, like they viewed him as an incredibly important figure

and a constantly serious guy. You know, um, this, like, like, you know, and um,

if for no other, if for no other reason, um, you know, people forget that the prospect of a communist revolution in the UK and specifically in England, that was a very real possibility. That wasn't,

that wasn't like nonsense. Um, that wasn't like Eisenhower era nonsense. You know, where these like birch types at Bandy that like the communists are going to take over Iowa because the reason why Marx said that in his mind

you know a Marxist-Sleternist revolution was going to happen in the UK and it'd be staved off for a time in Germany because Germany had already moved towards state socialism but you know this is a very real danger and

even a lot of even a lot of polite society types who thought that the BUF were bully boys and thought that Mosey was kind of a dangerous sinister person. They were like, I'm glad that these guys are stomping communists. You know, I'm glad that if push came to shove, you know, we'd have this like vanguard of men

to deal with it. You know, and I'm getting a little bit ahead of myself, but, you know, one of the things that happened, the National Socialist descendancy, in March 93, the National Socialists, they pulled 43.9% in the Reichstag. February 28th of 1933 was the Reichstag fire decree. which for all practical purpose is banned the Communist Party. And Ernst Talman got arrested. Like, how the different, like, how the constituent elements of, of, of the former German Empire, dealt with the, the Reichstag fire decree varied, because there was still something of a devolved federalism at play. That was, that was all done by about 1935, 36.

but even in in gau's and you know territories that were friendly to the national socialist or at least like not unfriendly Hitler and Hindenburg weren't issuing Dick Tots and this is how you must handle this is how you must implement the Reichstag degree

so the communists still had some breathing rooms some places but for all practical but their leadership had been arrested the stone uptulung was was was was was with was with was with was stomping the shit out of them. You know, they had the entire state apparatus turning on them. And the most important thing is the KPD could no longer send delegates to the Reichstag.

So for all practical purposes, in political terms, the National Soldiers had a supermajority in, like, parliamentary terms. You know, although not in, like, absolute population terms. Where the communists responded to that was the communists declared, like, a united front. And they're, like, from now on, like, we're not going to, we're not going to. We're not going to antagonize labor parties. We're not going to antagonize Democratic Socialists. We've got to present a United Front to fight the fascists. You know, and this had real implications on the British street.

Because up until then, one of the things that early on, before the BUF came to the BUF, when it was under the banner of the new party, the independent labor rights, mostly he had managed to poach a lot of those guys, including his original head of security, which later became like the directs action element, like the fascist action force, which was basically like the BUFs like shirmed along. I'll get into it a minute. But the reason why the independent labor rights gravitated to the fascists, like it wasn't just because a lot of these guys were basically patriotic,

even though they were, you know, like left wing. but the communists were attacking their meetings and and and uh and stopping them out because basically it was like you're not no nobody's going to ride under a red banner unless they're communists you know and they stopped doing that because basically wanted to put bodies in the street and and smash the the fascists and um this really alarmed people as it should have because revolutionary conditions were brewing and in moseley's view Mosley had a pretty nuanced view of this.

He was not by any means assembled in on political matters. Nobody would have said he was dumb in absolute terms, but he was actually very sophisticated in practice and theory of politics. And his view was,

I don't think the communists can win here, but he's like, politics have become starkly binary. You know, and there is no position anymore other than that of a fascist or that of the Bolsheviks. You know,

there's not, it's not like a discursive space outside of that. You know, and how Churchill and the focus hijacked policy that owed to the fact that things had abated in a large part,

especially after the communist lost in Spain and they lost in Germany, You know, people got to understand that the communists were winning at this point. You know, this was still three years before the Spanish were even kicked off. You know, they definitely had momentum on their side. And that's, I mean, I think Mosey was a fascist anyway. And if you read what he wrote, especially when he was outlining the corporatist model,

And that was its first real long-form political testament was the coming corporate state. And that attracted, again, not only the praise of Keynes, but guys like George Bernard Shaw. And Shaw was still addressing Fabian society meetings, but he was talking like a fascist, you know. And even in the 20th century, I mean, even in the inner warriors, a lot of people, still who weren't particularly sympathetic to communism or particularly left wing and their colleagues. That's just where the animating energy was

in political life since they gravitated to. I mean, obviously, after 1945, that's where anybody with any radical inclination was funneled do. Because the Zyg guys wouldn't permit anything else because anything else would have been a fool's errand.

But the fascist perspective in the UK, unlike on the continent, was a minority perspective. You know, not as much of one as the home office wanted to allege, but it wasn't a minority perspective. And only certain kinds of men found a home there. And so that's important to understand. I think some people who don't understand the history, they've got a tendency to consider Mosley in some, because they watch bullshit like peeky blinders, and they have this character in their mind of Mosley as being,

as being like Georgian Lincoln Rockwell, but with a lamey accent or something. That's completely off base. You know, like I said, that's one of the reasons why, despite what I view of as some of his blind spots in the post-war years, mostly he's a hero of mine he was a great man and you know um in part i i consider him those terms because he

he was a sophisticated political theorist and um as was mousseline in his own right but mouselini was kind of kind of like the right wing linen you know uh malsy wasn't just a taddily sophisticated guy and like a tough individual he at every sophisticated view of politics, and a lot of that owed, I believe, to, you know, his familial lineage and things. But it was October 1931. That's when Mosley formally broke with conventional politics. And in part, like I just mentioned, that was because of what he observed as the

experience of the Independent Labor Party. And for clarity, the Independent Labor Party broke, with the mainstream labor rights because they viewed them as basically like a stopgap. They viewed people like McDonald is kind of like trying to force a stopgap solution whereby, you know, a parliamentary solution, you know, where some concessions would be granted to the laboring classes, but essentially the system would remain as it is. Or they viewed it as a, you know, a mechanism of. active sabotage of revolutionary ambitions, okay? And as the independent labor party developed, you know, a direct action capability and a

presence on the street, like the communists began, first they began disrupting them. And then when they didn't quit what they were doing, the communists started violently assaulting them. Like, it got so violent that the ILP, they couldn't carry on the business of electioneering. you know, and Molesi was looking at this, and Moseley's like, okay, if this is the way the left is treating one of their own sectarian tendencies, you know, we're, we're tripping over our own feet, proverbially speaking, and thinking that, you know, some kind of, some kind of patriotic alternative to the Tories or the, you know, or the national unity party, as it was called, is viable, you know. And one of the, uh, John Beckett, who, uh, himself had been one of the main organizers of the ILP, um, before they, before they disbanded for all practical purposes,

he'd set up his own defense force, you know, like, like Sturham Toulogne type element, because he'd been a boxer, you know, and, um, he ultimately clicked up with Mosley. when Moseley set up the new party and this kind of became the background of the this kind of became the backbone of the British Union of Fascists you know like guys like this you know and this is also when the seed was planted in his mind

of cultivating a direct action element like a party militia which preceded the British Union of Fascists. You know, it, uh, the, like,

like the, the new party youth movement, um, was, uh, was, as mostly called them the shock troops, as well as the security of shallone of the new party.

And, um, this became a lot more formalized. Obviously as the BUF became the British Union of fascists. And they were the first guys, to where the, uh, where the,

um, you know, the, uh, the, the, uh, the,

the, the, uh, represented action within unity. But originally it was, it was the, uh, it was the,

direct action element. Um, the, you know, the youth core that, that, that wore those. And then,

because initially the preaching of fascist, their symbol was a fascist, just like the Italians. So, but surely, it developed a sound of aesthetic. And incidentally, you know, Molesley had been a champion fencer and he kept it up, like, even into his political career. The British Union of Fascist is black uniform. It looks like a

futurist kind of thing, and it is. But the tunic is a fencing tunic, like painted or dyed black, you know, in part because it's, it's like a primitive form of body armor, but also it was supposed to represent kind of like the dialectical collision and resolution of you know like the past and like things like swordsmanship with like the future you know which I think is really cool

but um and it was also distinctive from both the national socialists and and um and uh the national fascist party in Italy but uh it was in October of 31

that is kind of that that's like the seminal date that you know like Mosley abandoned normal parliamentarism but the Mosy also yelled something in common with Kudreanu

he didn't know Kudriano I think he probably knew Ayan Motta and I'll get into why I think that as we proceed Ayan Mota was a right had a man of Kudreanu, he fell fighting the communist in Spain, and he was very much martyred. Vasil Marrain, who was his comrade, another Iron Guard guy, they were both KIA.

And this was like a, this was like a rallying point for fascists when they were killed. And Motta had an internationalist view of fascism, which I find, which is important to our discussion. but it's only this interesting on its own interesting on its own terms but um the uh interestingly to um

the uh the new party uh youth militia these guys at first were surreptitiously attending communist meetings to kind of see what their ops were doing but they ended up actually poaching

a fair number of communist members to their ranks, which is interesting. And these guys moved in a lot of similar social circles. And mostly did it very deliberately. Like, the reason I made, I drew the analogy to Quadriano in the early Iron Guard,

mostly believe very much. He said, we got to concentrate on, like, a cell structure. And you've got to do stuff like insinuating, you know, our peoples into athletic clubs and, like, social clubs, but where people are serious. you know, it's like, we need to post the youngsters, you know, for, um, for the, uh, for the youth militia, you know, from like boxing and fencing clubs. You know, we need, we need to post older guys,

you know, from like the Fabian society and some of these guys who, you know, are, or, you know, bright intellectual lights in the communist movement, but who obviously don't really belong their own to their patriotic bona fides, which might seem like a forewarn conclusion, but the UK is not America, and like it's not the same thing. You know, that that was actually pretty radical thinking

and not particularly easy to accomplish, but one of the things about Moseley, being a lesser aristocrat and his, like, unique background and his family's heritage, literally,

of crushing radical elements and his ability to kind of like move in different circles as well as the fact he was a genuine man of action this thing allowed him to kind of jump the the class and cast

barriers which to this day remain quite rigid in the UK for like a developed country it's anachronistic you know but and what's most and what I think

I mean I think it's I think it's someone indisputable you know mostly despite um Diana Mosley's personal friendship with Adolf Hitler which was a very real thing

that's not home office propaganda and it's not creative license by court historians it was it was very real. But aside from all of that, and superficial commonalities between the National Socialist and the B.U.F., mostly, was first and foremost a fascist. You know, and his view of fascism was distinct. It wasn't merely derivative, but I'll get into such that the Italians developed a fascist, and called it a fascist

international, which had some success, and I'll get into that because it's important. One of the reasons they liked Mosley, it wasn't just because he liaise with them personally, and that made Mussolini feel important, and they obviously had a genuine rapport, but also Mosley didn't abide national socialist race doctrine. You know, he just didn't. Like, that's not to say it was something egalitarian. and he was very anti-Jewish, though not in racialist terms. He was very pro-white, vis-a-vis the white dominions of the UK,

and what do you imagine, the future of them being? But, you know, he didn't have any time for this kind of stuff that guys like Arnold Least did, who spent his days kind of pouring over stuff that Julius Stryker published, or, you know, this kind of Darwinian racialist stuff is a model for for a political doctrine,

you know, and the Italians approved with that. I don't think a lot of the national socialist leadership cast didn't go for that either, but a lot did. And Germany, like the United States, that's something people just accepted.

They thought that that's, they thought that that was the essence of, racial persona, if you will. My friend Giles was nice not to publish an article

I wrote on that. I guess more of an essay, really. But, you know, the, um, 1931 also,

I mean, this is when Keynes was openly, this one, Keans openly bandying Mosley as, as a,

as a progressive thinker and an important man. You know, um, Keynes had sympathized with the national government when he viewed it as viable, and that wasn't unusual. I actually have some respect for Ramsey McDonald, like we talked about last time, and I think the time before, I think McDonald was in an impossible situation. And as a head of government and a parliamentary system, okay, I mean, you take the fall for the failure of that government or coalition.

okay but um you know keens um i i think keens was a is essentially worthless as an economist in terms of you know true economic theory but i understand the limitations of the time and frankly that's why everybody became a keenezian this idea that you know it's a kind of embrace of anarchism to just let the nuances of a rapidly integrating global economy, just be like left to fate or chance. You know, the inability to code data correctly and to identify what variables must be coded. And most importantly, the inability to register information in real time, which we didn't acquire until the 2000s, really.

You know, I made a point again and again that something, you know, something like the crash of 87, like wouldn't happen, or couldn't happen again. Like, structurally, it's precluded. But, you know, it, um, it's the equivalent of, um, it's like talking about, it'd be like, uh, throwing shade on Pythagoras. This is probably an imperfect analogy,

because I'm not a math guy at all. I'd be like throwing Shanna of a Thagoras because to him like theoretical math was restricted by, you know, like available instruments, like an abacus. Okay?

Technology is just positive in these things. Especially when you're talking about systems where you know, variables and the ability to identify them, corral them, corral them and calculate them is entirely contingent upon high tech, you know, and this is

exacerbated in economics because time is of the essence, in a way it's not in other endeavors, except for maybe warfare. I'm sure Marxists would have something to say about that that's obtuse, but I think the subs understand what I mean. You know, and the, um, accepted, he basically accepted Mosey's paradigm of politics moving forward, that it was going to become very binary. And one of the few things Schumpeter is always pointing out in Keynes had agreed on was that a communist revolution is probably inevitable. You know, Schumpeter thought this could be staved off by concessions of the body politic and by, you know, a prosperity derby. having a, you know, his corrective functions set in in the, in the globalizing economy, that would have an effect of kind of neutralizing the most radical elements.

But Keynes was looking at this as basically a neutral arbiter. And he's like, okay, you know, if, if you want to preclude a Soviet-style nightmare here, there's got to be some kind of planned economy. and the corporate state was basically it was basically kind of like a demand cider's dream and I would argue that the strange as it might seem

as a model of administrative efficiency I think that the British system of the 1920s and 30s like the interwar system I think it was uniquely situated to administer something like the corporate, the corporatist model. It would not have led to long-term prosperity.

There would have been terrible problems. But in terms of mitigating the initial crisis and facilitating short-term development in a punctuated way, which in turn would have generated real capital, I think it probably would have worked very well. Okay. I don't want somebody to, cut that out of contacts and then say

I'm some kind of fuckhead Keynesian because I'm not at all. Okay? So please don't do that. I mean, it's funny sometimes when people do that, but that wouldn't be funny. I mean, I mean, in any event, January and early

2 is when that's when Moseley made a second visit to Rome and that's when Moseley truly became a fan. ashes, okay? And Mussolini very much kind of cultivated this. I mean, I don't think Mosley was some kind of simple to him. It was taken in by the kind of hero cult of a little duchy. I mean, I'm sure he was

somewhat. I mean, anybody would be. Like, Mussolini was an impressive man, and he was a man's man and just a remarkable guy. But I, you know, Mosey was young, but he'd, you know, he was a combat veteran. He was an aristocrat. He was a natural leader. He wasn't somebody who was snowed or by this kind of thing. Why did Mussolini cultivate Moseley so much? I mean, I think, especially when initially there was mutual respect, but there was a coldness that Mussolini exhibited towards Hitler in contrast. Okay, my view on there's a few things.

You know, the Italians, despite what they might say then or now, they want the approval of the British. You know, I mean, the British kind of cult, not kind of, the British do kind of covet the aspects of their own kind of racial and national character that are lacking and that are expressed with great vitality and continental peace. and specifically, you know, people as impassioned as the Italians. But, you know, there was a huge prestige in those days to the British Empire. And it's like some vestige of that endorsed today, albeit a shadow of its former self. But so there was that. But also, you know, contra the national socialists and Hitler specifically, this caused some tension with Hitler and the SS. That's way too much of a tangent.

But, you know, other than the independent state of Korea, Croatia, which was a totally unique case. And the relationship of the Croats is the people, the Germans is unique. The only thing comparable really is like the Serbs are to the Russians. But the Hitler government went out of their way to disabuse anybody of, you know, including their staunch allies of any sense that, oh, we're going to try and model our government on the national socialist state. The fascists are trying to cultivate something very different.

You know, people forget this. It's kind of been lost to history, kind of like the Four Powers Act, in part because I think it conflicts with the sort of simple-minded narrative of what fascism represented. Mussolini had, I can't read or pronounce Italian I'm not going to try

Well, Salini convened this office within the party and within the government it translated to the Action Committee for the Universality of Rome that's kind of a

bastardized translation like with that basically like the colloquially it translates to office for like the promotion of the Roman culture or you know like or the Roman political education is basically like

it's basically common form became later okay for the Soviet Union and its purpose was to identify fascist tendencies and friendly states as well as movements behind enemy lines

that could be cultivated and brought into, you know, some kind of internationalist political tenancy. So it's culminated in the 1934 Montreux Fascist Conference in Switzerland, also known not incorrectly and not just colloquially as the fascist international, the first Fascist International Congress. it was held in December 1934 in the 16th and 17th and 17th

and there was representatives of what had been identified by the Action Committee for the Universally of Rome as bona fide fascist movements in something like over 30 countries but such that it was the delegates came from

13 different states, including Ayan Mota from Romania, you know, the Iron Guard, Quisling was there, the Greek National Socialists sent a delegation. One of the phalanjist deputies came, but the phalanjist command element refused to endorse it, because they claimed the phalanche are not fascist. The Irish blue shirt sent the delegation. The movement Franciste, which was not affiliated with Charles and Maras' movement. They identified explicitly as fascist.

And what became of them, I think a lot of them ended up being folded into various militias because they kind of disappear from the historical record by 1937-38 so that's

part of the problem is I can't even read like passable French I mean I can read passable German but there was a Baltic contingent Salazar some representatives of a Salazar's

movement you get the idea. You know, there was some of the Austrian national Catholic types. Belgium has some of the Danes, the Netherlands. You know, you get the idea. And there was an indigenous, like, Swiss element. Obviously, notably absent was any delegation in the Third Reich. There weren't any of the Austrian National Socialist president,

but at that time there was a delicate minuet going on between them and Mussolini, especially because they were waging an insurgency campaigning as Dolphus, and they actually ended up murdering him, I mean, which is, which to say the least, caused some real consternation between Loduchy and the fur. But that, and Mussolini, there weren't, there was obviously like, Italians elements of the Italian government Fascist government were facilitating or organizing it But there weren't any like there weren't any like ideological

Commissars there from like the fascist party Because mostly he wanted to see he didn't want He said he wanted to get like an accurate rendering Um Without um you know people trying to jockey for like favoritism money Geostrategic benefit you know from from the party. It was basically put these men in a room and see what they do and see what the priorities are and, you know, see if we can properly call them constituent, representatives of constituent elements of an international tendency.

Mosley did not attend, and he did that for very specific reasons, because by this point, as I just mentioned, I mean, this was late 1934. Not only was Hitler, Reichs consular, but the Reichstag fire decree had been passed. There was a state of emergency. The National Socialists were also, like, busy passing laws, like disenfranchising Jews politically. So all over the British press, Moseley's opts are saying Moseley is a Nazi, He, Mosley is an agent of the kingdom of Italy. You know, Mosley is this anti-Semite who has been insinuated into our mist because owing to failing political fortunes, he looked abroad and he's basically like a paid asset.

You know, and this man, this man should be behind bars, you know, and if we can't put him behind bars, you know, we, we, we need to shame him and, and, and, expose him as this genocidal, biological racialist or whatever. But first and for, a first and for his concern was to deprive the enemy in the domestic press and this element that became the focus later, deprive them of the ammunition to claim that Mosey

was some kind of foreign agent or foreign assets. You know, and that was wise. But, you know, I emphasize that because, I mean, for a few reasons,

not just because it's essential to understanding kind of the various iterations of the Revolutionary Right in the inner war years. But, you know, the fascists, like the capital F fascists, whether you're talking about

whether you're talking about mostly, whether you're talking about Mussolini, whether you're talking about Ion Motta and some of these Iron Guard partisans these guys were basically adjusting for cultural discrete cultural tendencies

and animating elements. These guys were basically the ideological progeny of George Sorrel. You know, they They viewed themselves as arguably, you know, they believed a total kind of regeneration of the race and the national community and a new conceptualization of man in the 20th century. But at the end of the day, you know, they came, they were emergent from, you know, not just the spiritual crisis of the Western world, but the radicalism of the labor movement. you know, and something had to change.

What was imperative was not to allow, not to allow the communists and in their estimation, you know, the Jews to subvert this historical momentum, you know, to destroy the national community or the racial community or to like rip man out of historical existence. But that's very different than the way the national source. approach things. You know, like,

Hitler wasn't a fascist. You know, I'm not being, I'm not being obtuse and saying, oh, because he was a national socialist. I mean, that goes without saying, but Hitler was something very different. As were

the men in his inner circle, as were the control group of the NSDAP, who were somewhat to who, who's, who's, who's, who's, Hitler had something of a contentious relationship with,

despite the furor prince of it and everything else. But even the national socialists who found themselves kind of at odds with Hitler doctrinally, they represented something very different. You know, and that's important. And I think that

because, you know, shorthand for Marxist Lenin is shorthand, for all their enemies basically is fascist. And that's something, I think because, I think because people in America generally are kind of intellectually impoverished in matters of politics,

the kind of simpleton, like liberal left, sort of like appropriated that vocabulary. You know, and there's an unfortunate tendency of people to kind of accept these things as colloquialisms, which is a very deleterious effect on the ability to conceptualize stuff accurately, but I think that's a lot of this misunderstanding

comes from. It's like, oh, anybody who the left uses their ops and anybody who's European and right wing, but not a conservative, oh, they're fascists. Like, that's not, that's not constructive. And it's particularly inaccurate in the case, the National Socialists.

I highly recommend Ernst & Olatis three faces of fascism. That was his first major work translated into English. And he backed away from some of the epistemological claims

contained therein and some of the conclusions. But I don't find any substantial flaw with its methodology or its conceptual paradigm. If you want to understand what I'm talking about here, that's a very good starting point.

But let me check for me to see how long have I'm going. Okay. Yeah, we're definitely going to wrap it up in another episode. Before you tell me, that's okay. I just didn't, I don't want to monopolize that. I don't want to monopolize your time or be too long-winded on this topic. if it was making people bored or they wanted to move on. I don't think anyone, I don't think anyone's bored and wants to move on.

Yeah, no, no. I probably get self-conscious in ways that I shouldn't. I think it's a whole over from when I was young, and I used to worry a lot about that kind of stuff. No, feedback. I mean, obviously, you get more direct feedback on this than I, because it's your show, but it's been uniformly positive, but I still worry about it sometimes, man,

and especially when somebody's kind enough to you know gift me with a platform and discuss stuff with me. But um the one of the things

it was right around um it was March 1932. So I mean right around a lot of these critical events but before the before the fascist international Congress when Mosey'd been back from Italy

for a couple of months. The BUF was, you know, formally kind of being launched in a political, in the political quarterly, which was kind of like foreign affairs magazine is here, but like more widely circulated. Like basically everybody read it. It was politically engaged, you know, like regardless of their ideological strut. Mossey kind of laid out the case for fascism, but he did so from like a very, in a very Hegelian way. He said, look, we are in the UK specifically in the midst of a crisis. You know, he's like materially, like obviously the Germans were hit harder than us, but politically

our system is was and is in greater crisis than any other. You know, and he said this crisis has produced new parties, new types of men and new forces. And he said that the only way this crisis can be met, let alone mitigated, is by men who, quote, turn their backs on the old world and on the old political system. He said that communism, it won't just supersede social Democrats and labor rights, it will smash them. You know, he said conservatives think that they can bring these people, that they can, you know, kind of gell to these people or cut them off at the knees by bringing them into the coalition. He's like, that's not possible, you know, because.

he's like they're operating on the assumptions that were just enumerated. You know, like they are that bandguard of new men. And he said only the corporate state can defeat the Bolsheviks. Because he says not only does the corporate state present a model for, you know, economic planning that, on the one hand, doesn't leave, you know, macroeconomic decision-making to chance. But it also doesn't strangle the golden goose. and it allows private capital, you know, to reap the benefit of its bargain and incentivizes, you know, investment in the nation. But he said also, like, out of this structure, you know, will comes like a defense mechanism of, like, men who are, like, mobilized in service of the nation already, you know, and who have a stake in

the corporatist enterprise and contained therein is, you know, a very kind of brass tax political education that draws very sharply the distinction between, you know, friend and enemy with respect to the internal situation, you know, so he says that this is imperative, you know, to basically not just to guard the empire and guard the racial community and to protect Britain's political system from

you know destruction and subversion from within but he said it's also necessary to create and generate basically basically an apparatus that they can inculcate, you know, men with the necessary political doctrine. You know, he's like basically, like, by creating this structure, which will then force a direct confrontation with the communists, it will become very, very clear, like, who is the friends are of the working man and who is not. And those that would seek to subvert it will quickly

be exposed as people who, you know, want to destroy any patriotic impulse, which they view as vestigial and reactionary, you know, in Englishmen specifically. So, you know, he was making his case, not just for political economy of a Keynesian stripe, but like with teeth. But he was also suggesting that this is the only structure that can facilitate, you know, national salvation and, like, the basic defense of life and capital. And he wasn't wrong about the conditions emergent, you know, and I don't think people realize that in this country. I think they have some idea that the UK is kind of like America light or something or just like a smaller version. And they don't, like, they don't understand

that agree to which revolutionary communism had momentum there. You know, it's not an accent. And, you know, it's not an accent that Cambridge Five were these, like, society type guys. You know, like, it wasn't, it wasn't just, like, shop stewards and, like, angry, you know, kind of middle class types who, who, um, and in the British sense, that means something very different than here, you know, who, who realized that, you know, they're kind of saddled with diminishing returns. and the industrial system kind of found themselves in the role of like underpaid overseer. You know, these, these, these were guys, like Kim Filby and his friends, these guys were like the best and the brightest, you know, I mean, and that they weren't outliers. And the, in the British system, guys like that were groomed for certain roles within the, within the empire, you know, you, it's, you can't just talk about it. Like, oh, that's just

limousine liberalism or that's, oh, that's just rich people being, you know, commies. It's this, you can't explain it a way like that. It's something very different. The, but it was that October, 1932, right around the time that Mosley turned 36 years of age, that the British Union of Fascists was officially formed with 32 founding members who kind of became the Alt-Comfer. One of the most important figures, personage is rather in the party,

was Raven Thompson. And I've probably don't have time to fully flesh that out in this hour, But yeah, the degree to which to the kind of internal mythology, the B-UF, you know, like what Mosey and the members and men like Raven Thompson, who was the propaganda officer. These guys were very, it's very much Nietzscheanism through the lens of Bernard Shaw. and make no mistake, like Shaw was very much an Ichian. And I'm kind of fascinated

by he was writing about the tragedy of the commons. And I can't remember the name of the essay. And he famously said that Jack the Ripper was a great. was a great eugenicist, and he was, like, performing an invaluable service.

And he was serious about that kind of stuff. Like, he wasn't just being, he wasn't just being, like, an eccentric, whimy who likes to make taste of jokes about, like, cutting up hookers or something. I mean, yeah, there was some element of that, too. But, you know, this kind of constellation, of ideological and and kind of conceptual tendencies from like George Bernard Shaw

to to um you know the Fabians that he associated with and in Keynes and Mussolini and the kind of direct influence that early on he he wielded intentionally or not or Mosley

this was a very unusual constellation of aspects but it was very genuine it wasn't just this kind of grab bag of rationalizations or something you know and it was a very British and specifically English

fascism like there was a heavy Scottish contingent in the BUF and all after guys. Interestingly, Billy Follerton, the Billy Boys of sectarian lore were founded by

Billy Follerton. And he was a BUF, he was even like a day one like BUF Street Fighter. Which seems peculiar on its face in some ways, because Moseley was quite sympathetic to the Irish.

but there's something very there's something very English and in some way Scottish as well at least in some aspects of the party that you know it can't just be understood as a

as a kind of like a racialist or right wing tendency that oh wrote under a fascist banner owing to some derivative impulse or something like that. It was very much its own thing. But we're coming up on an hour. So yeah, let's, I will finish up on Mosley and the epoch in question next time. And I'll talk about the British Free Corps, which of course is, uh, the Britishers who joined the Vofan SS, some of whom were British Union of fascist veterans. But I think that would be very good, man.

All righty. Do plugs. Yeah. I'm very excited to announce that the movie, the documentary that my dear friend, Rake and I made, it's finally finished. So I'm going to spend this, like, the editing is finished and stuff. I plan to spend this weekend figuring out the best way to upload it so that people can see it. I haven't decided where I'm going to, ideally I want to upload it to substack. I don't know if it's possible yet.

I might have to upload it to Gumroad. But believe me, it'll shout it out on all my social media. It won't be hard to find. My substack is Real Thomas 777. that substack.com. I'm also on Instagram. I'm on X. I'm like many, many places.

My social media alt is at number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777.com. That's what I've got. All right, until part six. Thank you, Thomas. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignana show. Thomas is here, and I think we're going to close.

out to talk about Sir Oswald Mosley, aren't we? Yeah, we can continue for one more episode to discuss the British Free Corps if you want. I mean, I'll discuss some of that today, but it's up to you in the subs. We'll play it by ear. That's fine. The, um, something that's imperative to understand is a lot of what happened to Oswald Mosley, you know, and he was interned under defense regulation 18B, which allowed for the internment of anybody

who was actively sympathizing with enemy states during wartime. This was so loosely defined, it could entail pretty much anything, including mere statements. And as Lady Diana Mosley, pointed out you know Mosley scrupulously obeyed the law

and he there was precedent for this in terms of his personal as well as political conduct when the police ordered him to do something he refused to provide information on his comrades or members that beware or anything like that but if they ordered him to disperse he did it

you know and um if he was threatened with a charge of a fray he'd stand his people down you know and there was a substantial in relative terms number of BUF members you know who were in the British army or with the police and he told them don't don't disobey your superiors don't undermine the chain of command don't ever do that you know he's like trying try and try and encourage your fellow you know white Christian and Scottish and Welsh and sympathetic Irish men and women to see our point of view. But this idea that he was some dangerous revolutionary or that he was trying to subvert the crown by way of espionage.

That's laughable. Now, there was a weird precedent, though, as the kind of what gave rise as paranoia. Like, don't get me wrong, the Churchill government and particularly, Cretans like Van Satart. They wanted to harm Mosley for personal reasons as well as political ones. But there was odd

intrigues that led to Chamberlain adopting some very draconian policies, including the Treason Act, which made it very, very easy to convict people of treason. And under the common law,

as well as under the previous act, defining treason in the United Kingdom, which dated to the 1690s, not coincidentally. There had to be two witnesses accusing the defendant of the acts alleged in the indictment, and somebody could only be charged with treason by indictment, and the discreet and specific acts had to be witnessed. the treason act did away with all of this. You could be convicted by the same standard of evidence as any other felony

and it was a mandatory death penalty. There's only one penalty and it was death. Which is quite completely insane. Okay. But why this came about, and this is important, I don't want to derail us, but in the World War II series, we talked about how the new dealers and specifically Roosevelt, he quite literally sent Joe Kennedy away to the UK.

He did that were a couple reasons. The American establishment and the bridge didn't particularly like each other. This was not some like close, cozy relationship at all. And Roosevelt didn't like Churchill. He had contempt for him. Roosevelt didn't like Chamberlain. He thought he was in a feat snob and a jerk. You know, the U.S. government did.

didn't like the crown. You know, so sending America first Irish Joe Kennedy over there, it did two things. It subtly antagonized the British and prevented some kind of sympathetic ear being offered to them from the Department of State. It got rid of Joe Kennedy, who was a thorn in the side of the new dealers. But it also, you know, one of the things that, people like Van Satard in typical kind of conspiratorial British fashion. One of the things they use the presence of people like Kennedy there for is they wanted to see like who he was

making contact with. Like they wanted to see who in like a wider cultural milieu between the UK and America was stoking access sympathy. And um, this, this, this led to a very, very strange case. Let me just call my outline real quick. I want to see what I... Forget me. It was the case of it was the Kent affair. Okay.

And this is relevant to some of the other things we talk about. Like Tyler Gatewood Kent, he was a legacy diplomat. Like, he'd been born in Manchuria and his father was the consular, the U.S. consul. Okay. He developed a fluency in Russian

because he was something of a polymath. Okay, and he literally just studied Russian. You know, he went to the University of Madrid for a time through his father's connections. You know, then he joined the State Department. He was the first American ambassador to the Soviet Union under William Bullitt. But then weird stuff started happening.

On the eve of the war, in 1939 some of his colleagues began to suspect that he was a Soviet sympathizer and they went as far as suspecting that he was spying for the Soviet Union and he had knowledge of cipher pads and things

you know like a lot of State Department officials especially in those days he was basically an intelligence man they were under like light diplomatic cover but basically what some of his colleagues were sympathetic, to say the least to the Roosevelt New Deal program we're saying, was look, just so you know he's a Soviet agent.

And OSS later insisted on the same thing. The British were convinced he was a fascist, and this is where this gets interesting, because he got removed from his posting in the Soviet Union, But obviously Roosevelt was cultivating deep interdependence with the Soviets, even amiss the non-aggression pact. So when Kent arrived in London where he got sent, you know, in part because so his superiors could keep an eye on him. When he got there, he immediately made contact with a guy named Ludwig Matthias. And Mattias was almost certainly an Avvara agent.

And he was under investigation by special branch. then Kent was seen hanging around this kind of haunt in South Kensington that Russians were known to frequent. You know, both, you know, emigrades from the white army, you know, who'd fought the communists and, like, died in the old Soviet types. And he met this Russian woman, kind of like lesser society type woman. who'd been married to this rich British merchant, and he started having an affair with her. You know, and they started going back and forth between the UK and the Soviet Union.

Now, through a lady named Anna Volkov, who was another kind of society person, he met Archibald Ramsey. Now, Ramsey had been an associate of Oswald Mosley, and he founded what was called the Right Club. He defected from the Conservative Party and then from the Scottish Unions that found the Right Club. And the Right Club was basically like an anti-Jewish pack. Okay.

And it had his ability to kind of attract like society people. You know, and this made, um, this made Special Branch really upset. And I made Chamberlain really upset. and when Churchill ascended to the prime ministership, he basically resigned to destroy it. This is another thing that Regulation 18B was tailored to crush. But it's interesting aside, it begs the question, like, what was Kent's deal? And Kent, he was ultimately brought up on charges for his association. with people engaged with the right club,

as well as him acting as an intermediary between various pro-axis elements. And he probably knew Lord Hawa, William Joyce, personally. He definitely delivered coded cipher messages to him. Okay, and we'll get into who Joyce was in a minute. But MI5 essentially, they approached Joe Kennedy in May 1940 and said, look, if you don't waive Kent's diplomatic immunity, we're going to assume you're in cahoots with him and we're going to charge you too. This was like the implied threat. Okay.

So two days later, Kent's home got raided by MI5. and they found almost 2,000 official documents as well as messages between Churchill and Special Branch, which beg the question, how the hell did he get hold of that kind of data? But they also found he made copies to the code room at the U.S. Embassy.

Him and Anna Volkov were both charged. with violating the official secrets act and he's lucky because he probably could have been executed despite being a foreign national had like the treason ad come down and been tested and well obviously he couldn't have been tried for treason it would have set a precedent of killing people who were viewed as acts as agents and had been insinuated into sensitive roles um he was tried at old in a secret trial, no witnesses were permitted. The only witnesses were from MI5,

so that they could document what exactly he had and what he knew. MI5 and MI6 were there. But Ramsey, Archibald Ramsey actually testified against him, which was grimy, but Ramsey's supporters or apologists in the present day, would suggest that he was convinced that the man was a communist, which doesn't make a difference to me because, like, you don't rent people out and lie on them. I don't care what they are. You know, if there's something of a horrible person, like a child molester, okay, deal with them extrajudicially and give them some justice. You know, you don't testify on people. Okay. So Ramsey kind of showed his true colors as a coward, but that's, that's actually a credit to Mosley is the reason why he didn't associate with people like the right club. But, um, He was sentenced to seven years. He was eventually released as the war was coming to a close, okay? He immediately left the UK upon release, which is understandable.

He went down to Texas in the early 50s, and he married this wealthy heiress down there. And he immediately joined this organization that was probably an undercover, like, clan outfit, like KKK outfit. And he started publishing this pro-segregation, like a tabloid. And he started railing against Kennedy, saying Kennedy is a communist. Now, the FBI investigated him as being a KGB asset, but they could never show up enough of a case to charge him formally. They just made his life miserable. And they couldn't conclusively figure out what his angle was.

I mean, to me, it's pretty clear he was like a Francis Yaki type, you know, and he started making Soviet contacts after the non-aggression pact was signed. And then he saw the writing on the wall and realized, I'm going to do everything I can to kind of swing the strategic balance in favor of the Soviets because they're definitely going to win this war. And I want to do everything I can to undermine the Anglo-American Zionist Alliance. That's very clear to me. okay um but it makes sense that the fbi and m i5 couldn't figure this out okay but kent really really upset the whole incident really really upset um british intelligence and it specifically upset the focus okay and um as it became clear that war was inevitable between uh the access and the UK because Chamberlain had been totally compromised in part by his own, you know, by checkmating himself

with the war guarantee to the Polish junta, but also because the focus and the war party was just gaining too much power. I mean, it should have been clear that Chamberlain's days were numbered anyway and politically he was he was dying. But, uh, often, especially in a system like the UK's, in a parliamentary system, the prime minister, he's insinuated, is insulated by something of an echo chamber, and the information he's privy to is not truly insinuated into what the opposition is thinking. It's not like America, okay? There's just blind spots kind of built into the executive. But as it became clear that the British were not going to come to turn.

no matter what, Henry Williamson approached Mosley. And Williamson wasn't a fascist, but he was very much like enamored with Teutonic stuff and with Germany. And he had, you know, he had kind of a long view of what was underway. And he said, quote, if I could see Hitler, you know, a fellow common soldier of 1914 you know, I might not be able to give him the German common soldier the enmity he so desired from England. You know, to be fair

in those days, like people weren't really privy to a broad conceptual horizon in terms of policy as it was developing. I mean, Williamson was like a society type and a novelist. He probably was naive, but

you know, it wasn't clear that the fix was in, no matter what the crown was going to war. That was the whole point. But he sought out Mosley. He sent him a letter. And then when mostly, like asking if Mosley could arrange somehow, willing to get an audience with Hitler,

which was very naive because like despite, I mean, Hitler was very fond of the Midford sisters. And Gerbils in particular respected Mosley himself, like as a man and also like as a political soldier. But this idea you could just like, get an audience with the furor that's that's somewhat ridiculous. But Williamson went to visit Mosley on August 26th, you know, days before, 939, you know, days before the onset of war.

And, um, Moseley was totally resigned and is like, look, I read your letter. I understand you're upset. I sympathize, but this is pointless. And we're probably all going to be interned if we keep doing what we're doing. but I'm going to see this through. And so Williamson left, like, thinking Mosley was some kind of, like, maniac, but, of course, he was absolutely correct. You know, what really,

what really kind of changed things from, you know, rumblings by people like Van Satert and the war party talking about, you know, like locking up traitors and whatever, it was when the Germans overran the low countries, And it became clear that, you know, this entire enterprise of drawing Germany into some attrition war on the Belgian frontier. And then they're humiliating them on the battlefield or trying to force terms that they would undoubtedly find unconstitutional, whereby, you know, the Vermont would overthrow Hitler or whatever these MI6 types were thinking. I mean, it began clear.

that that was like a ridiculous fantasy. So as the battlefield situation turned for the worse, as the British Expeditionary Forest or the Allied Expeditionary Forest was fleeing in terror at Dunkirk, the establishment became obsessed with this idea of we're going to be subverted from within. And there's some fifth column leaking information to Berlin and Mosley and his supporters are agents to the Ab-Var,

which is laughable, especially you consider the Ab-Var and was like the fifth column in Germany. But the degree to which people like Van Satart believed this or not, and whether they believed some like feline assault by the Vermeacht and the Kriegs of Marine was going to happen, it's hard to say. I mean, to me, that seems incredible anybody would believe that. but Hitler did you know he assigned von Roonstadt to actually in fact engineer an operational

program for sea lion going as far as the outfit civilian barges with literal aircraft engines to pilot them across the English Channel having Frankenstein them into landing craft. I mean, Hitler did that as a strategic ruse, you know,

for the, not to frighten the British, but, you know, to essentially spoof, like Stalin's intelligence apparatus. And I mean, Hitler wasn't a fool, you know, in terms of his

ability to empathize with others and their likely perceptions. But it's one thing to convince the Soviet Union of something, it's another thing to convince the British, not because the Soviets are dumb and the British are smart, but there's cultural and linguistic barriers there, and there was this physical distance in those days where you couldn't have an electric eye on something 800 miles west. So this was kind of a perfect storm of conditions whereby the war party could begin treating Mosley

and anybody else they decided was insufficiently enthusiastic about the war effort as, you know, traitors and enemies of the state. And this was exacerbated by the fact that Edward VIII, the former King Edward VIII, he'd only reigned from January 20th, 1936, until December of that year. When he abdicated to marry Wallace Simpson, you know, the American divorcee, kind of flapper. hearty girl. She's a woman. She's like in early 30s. But, you know, Edward the 8th was a known anti-war partisan, and Van Satart began insisting that, you know, obviously we can't place the Duke of Windsor under arrest, but, you know, him coming out publicly in favor of the Peace Party could sabotage the war effort, which is already becoming desperate and strategic terms. And this basically was when the fix was in, okay, for defense regulation 18B.

And when Mosley was arrested, to be clear, at peak there was only 65 or so internees. And a lot of these people were there. Like a lot of these people were right club members. Some of them were Imperial Fascist League holdovers. But it was basically tailored. Like a lot of that was cosmetic. It was very clearly tailored to incarcerate Mosley. And, you know, ruin is a, without making him a martyr.

I think by then they realized even if they had the even if they had the nominal legal authority to execute him, that would have been disastrous for reasons I'll get into. But 18B was like the Imprisoned Mosley Act and all of his name. Okay. The immediately before he, or in the year, in like the six to 12 months before he was incarcerated, in the days after the U.K.'s war,

as Germany. Mosey went on a tear, but he framed this very skillfully. Like, I don't mean anything cynical. Like, he believed everything he said. But he, again, he was, he was sticking to his admonition to people to scrupulously abide the law and not to try to undermine the war effort. Although, you know, obviously, like, he admonished people not doing anything to help it. he started characterizing the Peace Party cause, like what it would become kind of the Peace Party de facto, as, you know, leave foreign elements on the continent to fight out their own quarrels.

You know, he's like, we've got to curate the empire and what remains of the empire. You know, because at that point, there was the Irish situation. You know, there was real talk in the parliament end of letting India go. I mean, this was a, this was a critical juncture in historical terms. You know, and he said that we've got to, we've got to carry the empire. We've got to shore up, you know, this vast capital that we do still possess. We've got to transition somehow

into a post-imperial condition without sacrificing our power projection ability and our truly global capital. You know, and this made a lot of sense, not just a fact. and, you know, people who were disgusted with the war party and the focus, but it made a lot of sense even the Tories, you know, like those who hadn't been totally compromised by, you know, by the focus and adjacent element. And Moseley was saying something that was on people's minds, but was not supposed to be said. You know, he said, like, war, even if we win this war, it will lead to the disaster of defeat. it will lead to the triumph of communism in planetary terms. It will be the end of the British Empire. You know, the only winners will be international Jewish finance.

You know, his words not mine, I'd agree with that, but just to be clear, America and the Soviet Union and world communism. This is a suicidal effort. You know, the Germans are not our enemies, but if you hate them, we can't win this war. You know, and a certain accent. energy started developing behind that. You know, like Diana Mosley made the point, like, years on.

And that October, I 39, at the Stoll Theater, just under 3,000 people turned out. And Mosley started openly condemning Jewish capitalists, you know, American Jewish capitalists and radical um radical um radical elements uh you know

who who have a Zionist cause in mind who are driving us towards war when when Britons have no interest in this war and she said that people were going nuts like it effusively they were like throwing Romans at them and stuff

you know um this uh at the new hippodrome it was the same thing it was 2,000 or so people, you know, almost all of whom were like throwing Roman salutes. It was like a mini like Nurember rally. You know, and obviously special branches on the ground watching this stuff. And hostile media, I mean, other than the daily mail, the entirety of national media was against Mosley.

But, you know, just by word of mouth and just by, you know, getting face. time with regular people in all these districts where there might be fertile ground for his message. And of course, too, these are the guys and the parents and sweethears and wives of guys who are going to get drafted, you know, living in these places. There was a real momentum there. And this was London also, in large measure. Okay. And I mean, that's huge. And especially in the UK, it's like, if you want to think, if Mosley was was only

raising mobs of this of this numerical magnitude you know in the sticks or in you know

kind of far-flung constituencies I mean like his own frankly that'd be one thing but I mean this was this was in London he was doing this

you know and the Mosleyite rally and cry at this point just before internment was like raise your arm for

peace, meaning like, you know, hail victory, but, you know, for peace. You know, and that, that really, really, really upset Vansetard. Van Sart took it going around, handing out, I mean, what a petty piece of shit this guy was? Is there a going around, you have a list of people he wanted to see shot for treason? Like what kind of a, like, what kind of an adult man of presumably, you know, sound mind goes around, drawing up a list of people he wants dead? I mean, you can't, you can't make this up. But these are the kinds of people who were, you know, in the true seat of power, which speaks for itself. But another thing that kind of not just sealed Mosley's fate in terms of the focus regime, but also raised his profile and made him indisputably.

the, like the leader of British fascism and national socialism. It was the matter of William Joyce, as I think of it, and also Gerbil's openly praising Mosley. And Gerbil's didn't really praise anybody outside of the Greater German Reich. As part of that was political. Part of that was because Gerbil's was, it just wasn't. wasn't really in his nature to be that charitable, you know. But William Joyce was executed in a gross miscarriage of justice, and I'll get into why that it is. Who is William Joyce?

William Joyce joined the British Union of Fascists in 1932, so he could be considered an alt-copfer. He became a leading speaker. He was an Irishman. He was Protestant, but he was a... an Irish man. Like, I don't mean he was an Ulster man. I mean, he was Irish, Irish, but I'll get into his family's

loyalism and his mother's confessional heritage. But he was a typical kind of, or not typical, just knowing typical about this, but he's kind of like a cliched, like great kind of like

Irish order and like partisan. You know, uh, he was this like, very thin, almost kind of, almost kind of spectral-looking man, like very pale, but super intense. You know, it wasn't conventionally handsome, but, like, women really liked him and, and, like, guys looked up to him. And, you know, he, there was a kind of dynamic, like, really, really forceful, angry tenor to his delivery that never seemed, like, theatrical or ridiculous. Like, the guy, he just seemed like a stone-cold partisan.

also had like a gift of like beautiful flourish that was never obnoxious and soaring in it in its quality but uh he became the b uf's director of propaganda he replaced wilford risden um and later became arguably the like like the closest man after the closest man to moseley like in in the leadership element um he also uh you like like like And as another, like, cliched Irish character is, he was a brawler. Like, he'd go toe to toe with any man. He had no fear. And despite, like, not being physically strong, he was incredibly tough.

And people were afraid of him. He was, like, a legit, like, street fighter. But what's significant, though, is he'd been born in Brooklyn, New York City, USA. His parents were from the west. of Ireland. His mother was a, this devout, like, Anglican, like Church of Ireland Anglican. His dad was a Catholic, but his mom definitely ruled the roost. And when he was still an infant, his parents moved back to Ireland.

You know, but he, his citizenship was American and Irish. He was not a British citizen, and this becomes significant. not just for academic reasons, but for reasons of due process and other things. But his big contribution in part, he spearheaded the effort to, first of all, he was instrumental in changing the name of the BUF

to the British Union of fascist and national socialists. He identified as a national socialist, first, last, and always. Okay. He had no time. I mean, he was obviously pro-white, like all national socialists are. But he had no time for the bullshit racialism of people like our own release. You know, he said, our enemies first, last, and always are the Jews. You know, if we're not going to attack Jewish power and identify Jews as, like, the enemies of the European race, then we're not serious.

you know and um the transition to the party platform away from this kind of like in ideological terms that kind of secular corporatism and away from this kind of like bullshit racialism towards you know a real kind of national socialist disposition that was very very focused on combating when they perceived as the Jewish enemy this the This was because of Joyce, okay? He was ultimately sacked by Mosley. And he went on to establish his own national socialist firm, which wasn't the mass membership organization. That begs the question of whether Joyce,

despite his brilliance for oratory and political soldiery, in partisan terms, I speculate he might have thought that a sea lion assault was coming, and he was trying to form a cadre. But be as it may, him and Mosey's falling out, Mosey refused to condemn him or speak against him. It was pretty clear it was personal, or Joyce Merville will have had designs on leadership, and that's something you can't tolerate. It doesn't make you an egomaniac or somebody who's, in the game for clout, you can't have people who are like intriguing to like replace you

in the ranks. But one of the reasons I believe that Joyce thought C-Lyion was going to be a reality, Joyce said to his intimates and confidants openly, he was really outraged by the government of India bill, which was passed in 1935. I mean, outraged at the government because that basically was a plan for like a kind of devolved federalism or devolved administration

in India, similar to what had gone on in Ireland with eventually obviously like letting India go. Joyce said, you know, I'm going to be the viceroy of India someday when we win,

meaning the Axis powers, you know, who is there going to be under arms as a cadre, you know, but us and the BUF, you know, a national socialist who've proven themselves by fighting the communists in the street. I'm paraphrasing, you know, and Edward VIII is going to, he's going to, you know, he's going to reclaim his rightful place again, you know, on the throne. And I'm going to become the viceroy of India. You know, he's like mostly told me. that. I mean, whether Moseley told him that or not, who knows. But obviously, as late as

as late as 1941 or so, he believed that this was going to, like, actually going to happen. And don't get me wrong, everybody thought that Germany was going to realize Enseek. That's what I'm talking about. He literally thought that, like, there was going to be, like, a national socialist, United Kingdom, like under German hegemony, and the empire was going to, you know, become like the fascist guardian of the sea or something, which seems pretty fantastical. But again, I've noticed that in my own life, as well as in my studies of the historical record, a lot of guys who make the best partisans, you know, in the way that Joyce was, they don't really understand. stand like conceptual geopolitics and

in the nightguise things. Okay. So I'm not going to sit there and make fun of Joyce for being like an Irish, an angry Irish romantic who, you know, was at base like a political soldier. But, um, Joyce realized the way things were going when the Second World War broke out and that he realized, okay, I'm probably imminently going to be arrested. You know, so Joyce and his wife emigrated to Germany. He'd been tipped off probably that he was going to be detained somehow, even before defense reg 18B came down, especially because he wasn't the British citizen.

You know, if they wanted to really play perfect as hardball, they could say, well, you're an enemy alien, aren't you? You know, and in 1940, he became a naturalized German citizen. And upon owing to his own kind of gumption and charisma, as well as the fact that, again, he and Mosey had a falling out, but Moseley never condemned the man or anything of the sort. Joyce had He had a chance of meeting with a lady named Dorothy Eckersley

who'd also emigrated to Berlin and she'd been in the women's division of the BUF and she got him an interview or at least a sit down at the Rund Funk House

the Broadcasting House okay um that is how lord hawha came to exist okay because gerbils who was always looking for people who could propagandize fluently you know in languages that would be impactful in key um constituencies you know i can't remember his name was on my head but there was this iraqi guy who became buddies with gerbils and he'd broadcast you know arabic language pro-axis propaganda to iraq the levant um you know palestine and i mean that's fascinating too but uh joyce's first broadcast uh he read the news out in english on september 6th 1939 just three days after the onset of hostilities um and they were so impressed.

And he had perfect diction, you know, which he was an educated guy. And again, he had a cosmopolitan upbringing, despite, you don't think of like an Irish street fighter as having that sort of intellectual resume, but he did. And he, uh, he became the exclusive English and newsreader of the propaganda ministry.

he got his name a guy named Jonah Barrington, a Daily Express radio critic. He referred to him as a man, quote, moaning periodically from Zeeson, who speaks English of the ha-ha, damn it, get out of my way of variety. So Joyce decided to lean into that shit and started identifying himself as Lord Ha-ha, which is actually pretty funny. What's ironic, though, is later,

there was this guy who's a comedian, who was also on Berlin radio then, named Wolf Mittler. And he was a comedian and a journalist, and he'd affect this almost flawless English accent that sounded deliberately moronic. almost kind of like a Monty Pythonish caricature, you know,

and just, like, say, like, ridiculous bullshit. And, um, it's, it's,

it's, it's believed Barrington might, even though he said that it was Joyce, um, that he heard, he might have heard, uh, Midler,

which makes it even, like, and, uh, you know, and like, uh, as on the side,

I mean, admittedly, like, uh, I've got, uh, I've got, uh,

I've got kind of a strange sense of humor, but, uh, if you know what to look for and you understand the context, like, adjusting for historical nuances. Like, a lot of stuff that came out of Germany, of like, that was deliberately comedic was actually, like, really funny. Like, it's not, like, Germans are just, like, a funny people, you know, like,

figuratively and, like, literally in terms of their comedic chops. But, um, this, I mean, this whole thing kind of seems like, like something you'd see in like a comedic satire movie. Like it isn't weird. But I mean like everything everything that happens with respect to the British at war time. Everything involving the British at wartime is weird. But the combination of Lord Hawa

suddenly appearing like whoever Barrington heard, like Hawa was like a real guy and he was broadcasting on the daily and that and British intelligence you know which was and they were very good and they still are in comparative terms them coming to understand that Gerbils thought highly the Buf and he basically never mentioned

like any other like national socialist element abroad MI6 Secret Intelligence Service They were laid back to the war cabinet. Look, Gerbils considers the BUF to be like the national socialist cadre in the United Kingdom. That's literally what they said. And that's when the fix was in, finally.

I mean, I think it was, mostly was going to be incarcerated regardless, but that was when, even even accounting for the deliberately loose language uh statutory language um devised uh for regulation 18b now they had what was you know concrete evidence that mostly was a clear and present threat to national security um and that that was that. What became a Joyce, this was important, and just horrible.

Joyce was captured at Fletgeburg, which is near the German border with Denmark, which of course was where the last, it was near where the where the Donets government was, you know,

Joyce got captured. The British Army intelligence, obviously they took a very strong interest in what was going on in that operational area. They spotted this disheveled-looking guy gathering firewood, you know, so they confronted him. the German Jew who's adopted name was Jeffrey Perry He'd been born Horst Pinshever

or Pinshever Pinshever like a lot of a lot of German Jewry German and Polish Jews had found their way to the UK and the USA and they were very deep in military intelligence

And of course, one of the men who testified, interrogated and then testified on Piper and Leipstandard was Pearl, who later came out was a torture. You know, his whole thing was enhanced interrogation, you know, which is really, really grotesque in all kinds of ways. But I have no idea if Perry, aka. pinch you ever tortured anybody. But he was an intelligence man, and he engaged Joyce in conversation. And he was about to let him go. And he said, you've got a really interesting diction. Have you ever been West?

Have you ever been to the United States or the United Kingdom? him. And I guess Joyce answered him in English, and they carried on for a moment. You know, Joyce kind of carefully guarding his identity. And one of the other men in Pinshebber's detail said, that's Lord Hawa. I recognize that voice. And Joyce had a really, like, deep register that was distinct. you know if you hear somebody on the radio all the time and especially intelligence types

who i'm sure were were studying these broadcasts um pinchever then detained him and uh after a while you know joyce is like look i'm not i'm not gonna pretend i'm i'm william joyce i'm lord hall you know um he was driven to a border post and then he was handed over to the mps he was taking to london and he was tried on charges of high treason because again the treason law the only punishment was death you know and uh he pled not guilty on a theory of i'm not a citizen of the united kingdom i can't be a traitor, you know, and a lady named Rebecca West wrote a book called The Meaning of Treason. And this kind of brought the case to kind of greater awareness. Like people, I think people didn't fully realize, especially because of how propaganda as they were,

as well as the lack of availability of information that we take for granted today, take for granted today. I think they just assumed that he'd been tried for, you know, some kind of propaganda-related war crime or something, you know, and didn't really think about it. You know, and of course, Julius Stryker had been executed for quite literally publishing a magazine or a newspaper that was in bad taste. You know, I mean, so, but he was literally tried and executed for treason. you know and uh j p taylor who's a not he's a revisionist in a sense he's a great historian i highly recommend him norman davies was a disciple at taylor um taylor wrote in his history of england technically joyce was hanged for making a false statement when applying for a pass-for

the usual penalty of which is a small fine, which is kind of this literal gallows humor, but it also happens to be true. The statement, just for clarity, and I'm sure the subs are probably interested. The statement, the literal statement that was attributed to gerbils regarding the matter of Oswald, Mosley, and the BUF was, this is submitted by Special Intelligence Service. They claimed Gerbils was on a record as saying, quote,

Mosley is making his presence felt. If he goes ahead skillfully, he will have several opportunities. That seems weirdly cryptic and scripted. I mean, I've read a lot of what Gerbils wrote. I don't want to get into some debate about, like, what is authenticated and what is not. Just take my word for what I've written a lot of what Gerbils, I've read a lot of what Gerbils has written. That doesn't sound like his writing voice. And it's just, what does that mean?

Like, you know, this guy will have limited opportunities. Like, that seems tailored to kind of substantiate a charge of some kind of subversive activity in the role of proxy of an. enemy element. Maybe I'm looking too much into this, but I don't find it hard to believe that Gerbels praised Mosley. He probably did directly in the presence of somebody who then availed this hearsay to some British agents, or, you know, it was recorded on some document that was then appropriated and delivered to the home office and intelligence branch or whatever

and this is just kind of like what the way they decided to paraphrase it and cross their proverbial tease and dot their eyes but um yeah let me see what the time it is yeah i'll wrap up here i think we're looking i think we're looking at another episode yeah yeah yeah i'll wrap it up here in a minute and next episode will deal with like the British Free Corps because that's actually important and it's like a good

addendum to this and plus it's just cool like um Britishers being in the Vof and as well it's just cool I mean I think it's cool but um I'm sure people who are inclined to listen will too but um there's also been a theory and um I don't know where David Irving fell on this I I tried to find it, but his, God love Irving as well as anybody in his orbit, but the other than his bookseller website for focal point publications, the David Irving archive is like a mess. It's become like a non-navigable mess, which sucks. I really, if anybody close to Mr. Irving is watching this, please salvage that stuff and make it accessible in a coherent. way because God forbid Mr. Irving passes away. We're not going to be able to access that stuff and it's going to

be wiped from the cloud. But I digress. I think Gerbil's may very well have been talking about Albert Arthur Albert Tester. Arthur Albert Tester he's referred to

in a lot of MI5 and MI6 memorandum as Dr. Tester. Tester was the son of a British Foreign Office guy, a diplomat. And he married a German woman. And

his father was the long-serving consul in Stuttgart where Tester spent like his early childhood. And because that's where he learned to speak both English and German, for the rest of his life, he spoke to English

with like a slight German accent. Okay. When the First World War broke out, Tester was interned in Germany as a British citizen. After that, his life kind of goes dark. But he was chased out of France under suspicion of espionage for Germany. Then he ended up in the UK in the 30s. he moved into this like luxury penthouse apartment in london um he also had uh this like stately mansion on the sea and like nobody had any idea

like where this guy got his money you know it's like there's some prestige to like being a diplomat like his father was but those guys didn't have money you know so early on tester joined the BUF um and kind of before Joyce really became a force within the British Union, Tester was advocating national socialism. You know, he, and he was basically, he was translating a lot of national socialist literature into English. His significance isn't really clear.

He claimed that, like, he was the mind behind it. he said, yeah, Moseley was like a hard man and a charismatic man, but I was the brains behind the BUF. Like, I wrote their propaganda. I was the aide de Camp of Mosley. I was the one on the ground at Cable Street who rallied everybody. I mean, the guy was like an egomaniac, okay? So a lot of this was probably cap and bullshit. But he did play some role. And because he was rich as fuck for reasons nobody could explain. you know, suddenly when he joined, that's when like Mosley stopped being desperate for money all the time. It's like obviously, like he was throwing a lot of his wealth

into a BUF coffers. And Tester was also, he was the only direct link to the, in terms of a chain of money or information or liaison with the German Reich. he founded what he called the European Press Agency which was

he held him so foul as I'm just like an independent newspaper man but this was like a Reich propaganda apparatus like that's not pejorative but this is what it was okay and it's believed by a lot of people like

you know like revisionist and others that, okay, yes, Gerbels made this statement, but he was talking about Tester. You know, like, why would Gerbils just like randomly mention Oswald Mosley, conveniently when there's need to like identify some statement that can, you know, kind of sew up a charge under 18B. So take that point of word. I accept that perspective. I think Tester was the subject of the statement.

But yeah, yeah. I hope people are continuing to enjoy this series. And we'll go one final episode in the British Free Corps. That'll be a change of pace, but it's important. And it bears directly on the fortunes of Mosley for the remainder of his life. But yeah, yeah, that's what I got. All right. Cool. Plugs, please. Yeah.

The best place to find my work product is, On Substack, it's Real Thomas 777.7.7.com. At long last, I'm going to upload the movie that my dear friend Rake and I made this weekend. I'm just sussing out the right platform. But regardless, even if I got to put it on Gumroad or something, you'll be able to link it from there. Or it'll always tell you where it's at. My alt on social media is at capital R-E-A-L underscore number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777.com. And you can also search me into my government name.

I'm Thomas Seart. And see what you shall find. Yeah, that's what I got. All right. Until episode seven. Yeah, thank you, buddy. I want to welcome everyone back to the Piquanos show. Thomas is here and he's going to finish up the series on Sir Oswald Mosley.

So how are you done, Thomas? I don't well. Thanks for hosting me. If memory serves and I reviewed the brief outline I made last time to refresh my recollection. I think I ended talking about Lord Haha, William Johnson. Joyce and his fate, his grim fate, and Oswald Mosley and Lady Mosley being detained incident to Defense Regulation 18B, which Mosley could have made that into something of a propaganda coup because there was sympathy for him.

You know, beyond the 9,000 or 10,000 member cadre, they were sort of the hardcore of the British Union of FASHA. It said peak, they had about 40,000 members, but about a quarter or third of that was kind of like the core vanguard. But,

and the there were, a lot of people made a show of demanding Mosley be detained. You know, like I said, there was only about 65 people who were detained under Defense Regulation 18, B. It was basically to target

Mosley as well as some of these society types because there was grave concern and we'll get into this today and it's oblique to the main thrust of the subject matter on a cover.

There's grave concern especially after Edward VIII and you know his friendly disposition towards the German Reich and the Duke of Hamilton who has had gone to visit

I mean I didn't I was trying to be flipping that sounds as Monty Python like when Mr. Hess went to visit him the man Hest wanted to make contact with during his ill-fated flight to try and

you know reach a piece concord with with the with the Anglo establishment. Hamilton wasn't like a national socialist or a fascist, but he'd known Hess. And he was an interesting guy.

He was an independent thinker. Like it made sense. I think Hess had his head in the clouds. Okay. I mean, we got into that in our series on him. But the point being, it made sense that Hamilton would be the man he wanted to make contact with longsheds it may have been. But there was concern that Hamilton himself had been somehow compromised,

which like his life wasn't ruined or something. But I, you know, these kinds of rumors followed him. And, you know, that that has ugly implications, considering the climate in the UK as whether it was a strategic ruse or not. And I will die on that hill. A hundred percent wasn't strategic ruse. The fact that sea lion wasn't going to be a reality. And Hitler had devised this elaborate, you know,

Ledger-Mane, essentially to deceive Stalin. It had very little to do with, you know, what the British thought about it. whether Churchill was exploiting that, you know, to solidify his war mandate or, you know, in purely cynical terms, or if he believed that was a possibility, a scenario that would come to pass. I don't know, but there's only some people in the war party who believed it, absolutely, and this stoke out of paranoia. They were trying, they were incessantly trying to seek out people who they believed. they've been compromised and in event of a massive German assault, these people supposedly were going to collaborate with what was to become, you know,

a fascist government and things. It all became kind of surreal. You know, the old show Dad's Army, for those familiar with it, it's kind of a silly old show, but it was actually pretty funny. But the subtext of it, I think, and, you know, And granted, there's kind of an opaque character to a lot of what the English should do. But I don't think I'm reading subtextual things into it that aren't there or weren't there. But it kind of casts the entire domestic climate as preposterous.

You know, it's almost like the old movie in 1941, which is about the Battle of Los Angeles. it's kind of in the same vein. You know, um, so I think there was among people who weren't taken in by the, the propaganda, you know, I think that there was a lot of people realize this is ridiculous,

but there was plenty that didn't. And plus there was other people who absurd as any of you, the entire narrative, they just hated Oswald Mosley and thought he was a bastard and wanted bad things to happen to him. And, uh, the, uh,

capacity for Sheldon Freud of the English is basically bottomless, you know, and that had a lot to do with it. Um, as it may, though, an important subtext to the entire story of British fascism and, uh,

kind of the last gasp of the, uh, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, to cultivate some sort of concord with at least some element of the British establishment was the attempt to the attempt to you know poach a British Army volunteers on the ranks of POWs you know and as people will remember Riven Tropp when he was the ambassador of the United Kingdom, he considered it his mission and a lot of this, you know, was on the direct orders of the furor, but also Riven Trough was very much a believing national socialist,

and the national socialist ambition was that there must be an alliance with the United Kingdom, you know, and if you read Hitler's second book, that becomes clear. and Brendan Sims' books on Hitler are the best other than John Tolan's biography. There's a, in terms of like pure biographical information and kind of a glimpse into the subjective sort of psychic tendencies of Hitler. You know, there's guys like RHS Stolfe and like David Irving who wrote about Hitler as, as warlord and that's fundamentally important. But just in terms of kind of general biographical treatments, Sims' stuff is great.

And he gets into some of that too. But, you know, as a situation deteriorated at the front, you know, something Hitler spoke of a lot and also elements within the Wehrmacht was, you know, are the Western allies going to simply let the Red Army overrun Europe? You know, that doesn't seem like anything that doesn't seem like something that would gain any traction with reasonable men, either in the, you know, what remains of, you know, the patriotic element of the American establishment or the military. And a particular concern, you know, if the Soviets reached Berlin, I mean, the United Kingdom had a serious problem. I mean, they had a serious problem anyway because they'd essentially committed suicide in bargaining away the empire to wage the war. So, you know, the reasoning in Berlin, especially after Kursk, was, well, there's got to be a substantial portion of the body politic in the United Kingdom that, you know, is gravely concerned about the fact that communist victory is seen as imminent.

you know and so that wasn't totally off base so the idea was that these guys who were to constitute what became the british free corps you know the the british national um element of the vapan ss they'd uh they would absolutely you know they'd be garret they'd all these men were receive a guarantee they would not be deployed to fight against their own countrymen you know, they'd be deployed exclusively to the Eastern Front. And they'd sign an oath that was in English, you know, pledging their fealty to Europe and Adolf Hitler, but also to the UK to, like, resist bullshitism as, like, a European patriot. You know, and the idea was, like, well, you know, if we can get even, like, 1,000 or 1,500 men, you know,

and we can propagandize this extensively of these Englishmen and Scots and Irish guys and Ulster guys and Welshmen, you know, going into action against the communists, you know, under the swastika, you know, people back home in the UK will be able to wait a minute. Like we're fighting the Germans when our boys are fighting the communists. We're trying to overrun Europe and would probably slaughter us like they like they did the, you know, a quarter of the Russian population. You know, like I, so I mean, it did, there was an internal logic to it, you know, and um, this was really kind of a brainchild to a, of a Gottlieburger. Gottlieburger was a really interesting guy. And he was actually the man who intervened, uh, when crazy old Oscar Derlevanger was,

you know, getting into all kinds of shit on account of his alcohol. And, you know, this isn't aside because there's a lot of people, including that, I can't even remember his name. It's like this hysterical limie who's always dropping third-right content, but he goes into these, like, he goes into these like histrionic diatrives about how evil, like the subjects of his like little content tidbits are. And he loves talking about how like Derla Vanger was a quote, child molester and a rapist. Delavanger like a lot of military guys who can't grow up. He liked teenage girls. A lot. So he'd carry on with 15, 16, 17-year-old girls, and he'd get caught doing it.

And angry fathers had demand to go to jail. And finally, the Reich's like, you know what? We're tired of this shit. I think you need to go to a concentration camp for a while and think about, like, keeping it in your pants. That's what happened He wasn't hanging around Schoolyards touching little kids And I'm sorry

Are you a creep if you're like 40 And you like kick it with teenage girls Yeah Darla Vanger was a creep Okay He was not a child molester That's retarded But in any event

Berger was his Day 1 comrade From the Great War So he intervened To get him sprung from the concentration camp he basically convinced the right chancery

the party chancery to like look like deploy Dirlivanger to to Spain you know let him lead part of the ground element if the bad if like if the crusty horny bastard survives

you know it doesn't drink himself to death or get blown away like consider him redeemed So, like, that's exactly what happened. And Derelevanger, like, the guy, the guy had, like, the guy had brass balls. And so he, I mean, say, he, like, led from the front. He had, he had, like, incredible, incredible aptitude as, like, an infantry commander. Like, even when he became a, even when he became a Standardt sphere, you know, he was still doing the same thing.

And that's one of the reasons why comp group Dirlavala. of anger like you know these were very rough men to say the least it's the only reason they respected him but in the event gotler burger when he wasn't trying to get his uh his friends out of prison for their uh indiscretions he's the guy who um really pushed hard with himler like look you've got to you've got to give up this sort of like racial purity nonsense respect to the Vofana. He's like, yeah, we're not, we're not going to let, you know, non-Germanics enjoy the full status of, of the Praetorian Guard, you know, like our own people do. But like this idea that we can't have like non-Europeans in our ranks so long as they're not, you know, our enemies, so long as they're not Pol, so long as not Russians.

we'll get into at some point like the Russian elements and the Ukrainian elements because that's complicated but it was Berger for example who brought the

the Oxman divisions in it was him who like advocated for the Muslim Vofan SS troopers and was him who said you've got to try and get these British POWs in the Vofan SS

you know and at least his view was at least some of them will go for it. That's all we need. And the British Army also had a rep for professionalism. And obviously the guys the approach with this were like combat soldiers, they weren't POGs. I'm like POGs wouldn't have been in a position to get captured anyway. But that's Gottlieburgers who, it was his brainchild, interestingly.

And some person just from the foreign ministry too, but. I'll get into that in a minute. But there was and interestingly in the UK there was there was rumors until after the war of there being

like company-sized elements and larger like English POWs or British POWs fighting in the VOP and SS that's not the case. It never numbered more than, you know, a few dozen men at one time. But initially, the name for those floated was the British Legion. But there was a veterans organization in the UK, you know, to counterpart to the American Legion called the British Legion. Then the

idea was floated to call it the Legion of St. George, but that was dropped because it didn't really resonate with the national socialist ideological culture. And, you know, the Greeks, the Greek Orthodox and the Russian Orthodox, they have the same patron saint. It would cause confusion that they wanted something that had like a unique, Identitarian significance to To Great Britain Okay So

It was decided, you know, to call it the British Fry Corps, the British Free Corps, you know, and for the first time in In the RSAHA Documentation of it, the name British Free Corps appears at the first time in November in 1943. And again, it was in, it was around May that the idea

was first floated, you know, and then, again, in the aftermath at the Kursk, it, it became something

that was promoted in earnest. And so, there was a special detachment under the authority of the SD, specifically,

uh, specifically charged with attempting to increase the recruitment of officers. That was largely a failure. They were only able to poach about six volunteers. And I mean, this is essential to. The SS said these men have to be volunteers. We can't press these guys into service. First of all, we're probably just going to get guys who are going to try and fool over the program.

And that's why they're, you know, because they're going to resent this. Secondly, we actually want us to be a combat effective formation. And finally, the propaganda aspect was paramount. So these guys had to be volunteers. And looking forward, obviously, the idea was they'd allow their testimony to be recorded and broadcast as, you know, I'm an Englishman or I'm a Welshman or I'm a Scotsman or I'm an Ulsterman. and I'm a patriot, but, you know, I'm a patriot, but, you know, I also stand with, you know, the European race and against Bolshevism. You know, there's another dedicated detachment that was formed and charged with recruiting potential volunteers. it was Special Attachment 517

and they identified around 300 British POWs who were viewed to have like the physical and psychic and aptitude you know for a for a combat rule with the BOP and SS

and who were viewed to have you know either the political disposition that would complement service they're in or you know guys who were malleable enough or at least open to the idea such that

you know they could be persuaded um the uh as it started to take shape a kind of a kind of command structure developed with special attachment

517 of British volunteers um there was a handful of of British Army and Royal Air Force NCOs and about 20 enlisted men who kind of were the first cadre

of what was to become the British Free Corps. As by the summer in 1948 as this kind of core of original membership was identified and kind of corralled into this formal structure. You know, they were

they were given SS identification booklets and they were put under the authority of the SS Hauptemte D1, Department D1.

For context Haupttman's D1 was they were also responsible for the Germanic SS. These are the guys who formed the Algamine SS in places like Denmark, Norway, the Netherlands, you know, any Germanic country as per, you know, cultural commonality,

as well as, you know, according to the Nuremberg laws that defined who was an Aryan. you know, that's, that's what the Germanic SS was. And from the Germanic SS, a lot of the national legions, you know, from these same countries, that's who they, that was the original population they drew upon for volunteers. You know, by 1944, like right after the new year, you know, January 944, the British Free Corps, they were fully integrated into the Vauphin, SS. Like they, they became like an official, you know, like SS, Vaf and SS element. And at that point, they were given, they were given, um, field gray uniforms, you know, Kameh fatigues. Um, and they received the, uh, the shield, uh, patch. You know, the, uh, the national insignia that all, like, foreign volunteers got. There's had the union jack, you know. Yeah, it's on my shirt here. The National Shield Patch always went on the left arm. And their collar patch, with a nod to St. George, it was three lions,

which is like the standard of St. George. By the end of the war, when they were finally deployed, they also had a cuff. title, which it said it read in German and English, British Free Corps, British Frye Cor, and then British Free Corps, which is interesting. Those are really hard to find.

If you're somebody who seeks out authentic, like Third Reich Militia, if you can find one of those and validate it's authentic, like you're very lucky and or you've got like very good investigative shops. because they're highly coveted.

Just because the British Free Corps is cool. And if you don't think so, you're kind of lame. But the... And some people make a lot of the fact, too, like, the British Free Corps did have, like, really keynote uniforms. There was other, like, national legions where it was, like, more subdued, but who were really keenly.

combat effective. So like the claim is like, oh, this was just a propaganda, attempted a propaganda coup. Like, yeah, it was, but that wasn't all it was. And the fact it didn't make an impact on the battlefield owed it kind of like a conspiracy of circumstances. It wasn't because Gottler Berger and the SD and Himmler himself and Carl Wolf. It's not because like they didn't have some intention for it to be, you know, a combat capable formation. They absolutely did. Like the fact that it didn't happen, well, I mean, you know, nobody denies that a large catalysts or invidious for its creation was propping in.

I mean, that goes without saying. But there was unique considerations with respect to the UK. Ameri, there was a prestige that didn't exist. swear. And I mean, for people, things it was like some retarded pipe dream or something. I don't know. Okay. I mean, it was the final defenders of Berlin were 33rd SS. They were a bunch of Frenchmen. Okay? I mean, like, this was not, um, the VavanaSS was a pan-European army. And there were people who, whose nations were de facto or de jure at war with the Reich who, you know, literally fought to the last man to defend the German Reich. It's more complicated than court historians allow. I mentioned a moment ago about the oath that British Free Corps volunteers signed. The relevant language is, quote,

I, you know, the name of the subject or volunteer, being a British subject, consider it my duty to offer my services in the common European struggle against communism and hereby apply to enlist in the British Free Corps, which is what I believe was in the minds of most of these guys. You know, I mean, it wasn't being a prisoner and losing your liberty is awful, no matter what, but British Army prisoners and American POWs until really, you know, end of 44, start of 40, when the terror

bombing really took its toll and people started lynching down to airmen British and American POWs were treated very well they were treated in line with the demands of Geneva

Convention you know that's why I mean obviously stuff like Hogan's Heroes was goofy but I know the common refrain is people these days getting mad at that show and can't believe it aired on primetime or they act like the great escape with some kind of softball treatment. If you were a Royal Air Force POW or like a US Army or US Army or Air Corps POW, you weren't being tortured every day. You weren't being thrown in

Docow. Like you weren't being like whipped with a cat of nine tails. Like you were being treated like POWs were always treated and according to the, you know, Westphalian consensus. You know, so it wasn't weird that those kinds of settings would be depicted in lighthearted stuff. You know, it, um, that's, uh, that's important. Um, the, uh, the British Free Corps, it, it had a kind of confused existence in terms of what command it properly belonged to, in part because the situation was getting very critical. You know, this was 16 months before the day of defeat, that it finally was, you know, validated, if you will,

as a Vafa NSS Legion. There was some commanders, and especially later in the war, despite, you know, the party and the SS asserting itself against the Vermacht after the attempt on Hitler's life, you had a lot of power if you were the equivalent of a colonel or higher in the Vermacht. You know, in the field, you were kind of a law unto yourself within reason. So when the British Free Corps showed up And some of these

And some of these Panzer Element generals Or Vafn SS commanders Were said like, okay, like, you know, These British POWs are joining your command now. They weren't handing it. You know, they were like, look, like, This is going to cause problems. And in the back of their mind, it was like, if we're going to try and negotiate some kind of peace with the allies before the Red Army burns it all down, if it looks like I'm ordering Englishmen to go into combat, how am I going to explain that?

You know, which on the one hand, you could say is kind of fucked up. but on the other hand it's like well any uh any general officer who uh is commanding men in combat his job is to keep those men alive you know and within reason make sure as many of them get to go home as possible you know that doesn't mean you you forfeit victory conditions to prioritize that humanistic aspect but if the war is long as long as well lost anyway and you know accepting these British POWs

into your command is going to screw up the odds of you know the collective fate of the unit you've got to consider that very seriously so there's that there's unsubstantiated rumors that have

endured and some of this I believe to be true of after the British Free Corps was for all practical purposes disbanded individual members. There's people who claim that they fought with them at Berlin. They were attached to 33rd SS because they showed up there. Or they were fighting with Volkesterm. Or they were, you know, some like older Englishmen, like older, I mean like a proper military age was like leading some Hitler-Ugan kids to try and help them.

break out. I think at least some of that is true, because some of these guys were never accounted for and if the Soviet, I guarantee you if the Soviets had captured or killed these guys and the Soviets were obsessed with documenting things,

they would have made a big deal about it. They would have been like, you know, oh, they the capitalist English are turning against us now. You know, look at this. Or you know, it would have it would have really upset the Western allies if, I mean, not for, not for moral reasons of

necessarily, but I mean, like, it, it would have caused a consternation, you know, if they, if they'd come across these guys before the battle of Berlin and they'd been KIA or captured. This wouldn't have been kept a secret. And, I mean, nobody was getting ID'd at when Berlin got overrun. So, like, who would have known after that, you know? For decades after, there was Rolls and rolls A MIA presumed dead, and a goodly number of these people have never been identified.

So that's definitely not impossible. Okay. The numbers we're talking about are a few, but they, there are some unaccounted for. The, uh, this is the case that John Amory

and he was executed by hanging expeditiously several months after the war in the summer of 29th and Amory, we're going to know who Amory was in a minute because he plays a significant role

in how this came to pass and the entire Enterprise, the British Free Corps. but such that the documentation I could find about other British subjects like I'm not from the

not not from the empire I mean you know like actual Britons when the Battle of France was underway there were seven British subjects said to be serving in

various units of the Tottenkopf Vibbon including in what became 3rd SS Totenkov. This is before the Bafen SS existed. It's believed there's at least a handful who served in Leib Stendart, Adolf Hitler, first SS.

And the the propaganda and war correspondent unit Stannard Kurt Eggers That's where James Monty served

You know the American defector Who joined the Yvaffan SS Um It's also believed That there was two guys Who might have been deserters Who served in the flak detachment Of Leaves Stendart, Adolf Hitler

Both of whom were apparently awarded The Iron Cross second class there's a book that hasn't been translated about Leipstandard, and specifically the flak detachment, that apparently deals with these guys. I haven't had time to dig that out yet and work on

translating it as much as I can to interpret what it actually says. But the original fix of British Free Corps recruits, and the guy is most known to to the public the guys who achieved the most

prominence or guess like infamy were a guy named Thomas Heller Cooper and Frank McLarty and both of these guys were British Union of fascist veterans who apparently immediately upon

you know being offered opportunity to join the British Free Corps did it and they became important in the effort to recruit more. And this really came back to haunt Mosley because even though it's not like there was a great number

of British Union veterans who joined up, there was enough that the narrative became, oh, well, these guys were all a bunch of Mosleyites and look, now they're not, you know, now they're trying to join the right you know um this is one of the things that really harren mozies's post-war political fortunes um i mean i don't think i think moseley's moment it kind of passed by then anyway and uh there's a really good treatment of this the seminal biography of frances yaki is by um carrie bolton

that goes without saying but there's another biography from the late 90s which is actually great in its own right, the end notes alone are a treasure trove of valuable information for researchers. I include myself in that category. It's by this guy named Kevin Coogan, who was kind of this like left-wing anarchist type guy from the Pacific Northwest. But the book was remarkably balanced, and H. Keith Thompson contributed his testimony. Elsa DeWitt, who was Yaqui's longtime mistress, a bunch of guys who knew James Hartung Maddoll, some contemporaries of George Sylvester Vyrick. It's a fantastic book. It's called Dreamer of the Day. But he gets into the rivalry between Yaki and Mosley and Moseley's efforts to sabotage Yaki's efforts on the continents.

in the aftermath of the day of defeat. And it doesn't cast Mosley in a particularly flattering light. I mean, the historical record doesn't. It's not Kugan's conceptual prejudice or something. But such that the British Free Corps did see active service. in March 1945 just weeks before

the capitulation there was an attachment of British Free Corps volunteers who deployed with 11th SS which was Nordland which consisted primarily

as Scandinavian volunteers they were attached to third SS Panzer Corps which was under Felix Steiner. Steiner was the commander of Viking 5th SS. And Nordland, there's a lot of membership in common

in terms of the ethnographic makeup. You know, Norwegian, Swedes, Danes, some Finns, some Volksstoych. These guys were the records such that they can be cobbled together

and the movements of these men identified with any clarity. They were specifically sent to the reconnaissance battalion, which was under the command of a Swede, a Hans Gosta person. Their squad leader was an SS Sarfier, Douglas Martin. His alias was Hodge. Richard W. Landvere, who is a great documentary in the Vof and SS.

He was involved with a lot of veterans' organizations into the 90s, who were producing a lot of material as a kind of counterweight to what court historians were producing. and whatever you think of Richard Landvere he had unprecedented access to veterans' testimony as well as records

personnel records original personal records of the Bafin SS and other things he claims in his book on the British Free Corps that the Britain's who were attached to the recon battalion of 11th SS they ended up in the village of Schoenberg which is on the West Bank of the Oder River and presumably these guys went in action against the Soviets

because if they were there I mean they were coming under heavy assault okay in April the entire Panzer Corps was moved to Templin as you know the long

retreat continued. They were then assigned to the transport company of Steiner's headquarters staff. And when Nordland Division left for Berlin, you know, the final retreat to the capital, as

Berlin became a frontline city, as the Fierre called it, the transport company went to Berlin. And you know, British free core elements included.

Steiner by April 29th broke contact with the enemy. What remained of what remained of Third Panzer was engaged to the Red Army.

And he did that with the intention to try and surrender to the Americans and or the English. Thomas Heller Cooper and Fred Croft, who were two members of the British Free Corps with Steiner's Transport Company, they surrendered on the 2nd of May

to the 121st Inventry Regiment. The rest of them, it's entirely possible these guys died fighting in Berlin. You know, because the record puts them there for context of what I mentioned earlier about these reports of some of these guys, you know, being in Berlin, you know, in the final days and hours. Okay, we still got a few minutes. Kind of the roots of this ultimately, you know, like I said, this was a longstanding, this was derived out of a longstanding desire or recognition of the need, or probably, perhaps, of the furor, his staff.

the foreign ministry, elements of the military and the SS, you know, who understood that there needs to be some kind of conquer with the United Kingdom. Otherwise, this grand ambition of national socialism is not going to be realized. So, early on, the Reich foreign ministry around 1942 they set up in Berlin they set up this kind of study group

to try and cultivate contact and build relations with dissident elements in the UK or at least sympathetic elements to the Reich against the Soviet Union and against the war party then led by Churchill

and specifically they wanted to cultivate guys and women who were part of the establishment and preferably part of the nobility. Some funds were given to the Duke of Bedford. Edward Godfrey. And he proceeded to set up the original British National Party, which later, you know, the B&P, as we know it, was like John Tyndall's outfit.

and then later like Nick Griffin who I think is kind of a con man you know became hansho that obviously they were invoking the legacy of the original BNP but they said nothing to do with them

this is something totally different this British National Party they became this pressure group demanding a settlement with Hitler like a negotiated peace and the war party and specifically the home office, they really freaked out.

They're like, this is a revival of the British Union of fascists. This is a fifth column. You know, these people are trying to overthrow the government. And, but it garnered, for what it was, it garnered a chorus sympathy beyond what people might think was. possible, especially we consider that, you know, 18B as well as the reformed treason law, which provided for, you know, a mandatory death penalty for a very kind of loosely defined range of conduct that it could be demonstrated that provided aid and comfort to the enemy.

You know, obviously the hope of the foreign ministerial. history and the SED was that you know kind of like the nine or ten thousand core members the BUF who were presumably still active would flock to this British national party you know and as Britain's fortunes continue to decline on the battlefield you know this this would be sufficient. efficient to kind of plant the seed that would ultimately bring down the war party, which seems like a long shot. But, you know, like I said, this actually did gain some traction, much as it was blown out of proportion by the home office. These guys also, the British National Party, they started a newspaper called The Patriot, which, made headlines by setting up a fund

an 18B detainees aid fund you know and this was in those days there was still a pretty strong tradition particularly among society types of respecting civil liberties and stuff a lot of people were appalled

that Mosley and some of these other guys and women had been you know in ceremoniously locked up and what amount into a, you know, and what amount into a concentration camp for indefinite duration. This was intended to become the nucleus of, you know, a political movement. The home secretary in the war time coalition was Herbert Stanley Morrison, and he really agitated about the purported threat posed by this.

issued a report that December that claim that fascism in London was resurgent that there's going to be imminent pogroms against Jews that the threat of sea line has never abated you know that there's an active fifth column within that's in direct contact with the enemy and they have social pedigree and that renders them untouchable and we're all in grave danger. You know, and this environment really continued until around 1944.

You know, when in a rare moment of clarity through the haze of delusion and alcohol, you know, when, in a rare moment of clarity through the haze of delusion and Alquess, and alcoholism and cynicism Churchill basically said you've got to scale back on this on this kind of propaganda because it's going to stoke sympathy for these people which was entirely correct

the you know and for clarity too because not a lot's written about this by the time the war was well under way. After the Vermeck was halted at the gates of Moscow, after America joined the war in earnest, Hitler in 1942, he met with Paul Otto Smith, who had a lot of cloud at the foreign ministry. He was an interpreter. he'd been at one of the first

world economic forums, I think, in 1933. And he was fluent in French. When Hitler had to talk to Antonescu, who ironically, they were close friends. And Antonescu was Hitler's best ally. He wasn't as personally close to him as he was to Mussolini,

but Antonescu was definitely Hitler's best military ally, and they had a great mutual respect. But Hitler didn't speak Romanian. Antonescu didn't speak German, but Antonescu spoke French. So, like, Hitler would, so Schmidt would translate, and Schmidt didn't speak Romanian either, but he was fluent in French in English, as well as a slew of other languages. So Paul Otto Schmidt would interpret for the furor and then relaying French to Antonescu, who then answer in French, and then Schmidt would relate back in German.

but Schmidt headed up the England committee you know to try and as I mentioned a minute ago to try and cultivate you know an alliance with a sympathetic cadre among

British society types and you know Hitler's you know and what Hitler said in Hitler privately told Borman, you know, like kind of unpleasant of a character as Borman was. There's a reason why, you know, he took on Hess's role

as essentially party secretary and gatekeeper of access to the fur. And Hitler confided them a fair amount. And, you know, Hitler said, in early 9 to 42, he said it, you know, he said it's definitely possible that Churchill will fall. And he's like, we need to do everything we can to facilitate that. But he's, you know, he said it's not going to accomplish anything unless, you know, we have, quote, men like Mosley in reserve and a cadre around them.

Hitler said, quote, when I think that Mosley and more than 9,000 of his supporters, including some belonging to the best families are facing prison because they didn't want this war. You know, he said that that's unconscionable, but also we can use that in our favor. You know, but he said it's essential that we cultivate this cadre. It's not enough to just kind of, you know, for some sort of return of veterans from the McDonnell, the Ramsey McDonald government and the National Coalition, bringing down Churchill because the war is a disaster, you know, we, because there's no guarantee there, like, we need an alliance. You know, we need people or ideologically committed,

which was absolutely correct, you know, in terms of what the Reich had to pull off. I mean, which, yes, that was a complete long shot. And Hitler made match, and he said that, like, we need a Cromwell, which is really interesting. And, uh, I mean, Hitler, obviously had read his Carlisle. But that was the climate. And yeah, that's, I guess I can stop there. Yeah, I love those new scattershot.

That's essentially the story of the British Freak War. It's hard to piece together. Like I said, I think I'm, I think I got better research shops than many men. But it's an esoteric topic. There's a lot of like kind of lured stuff written about it in the 70s. Like there's this paperback from the 67 called Hitler's Jackals. I got it somewhere here. It's just this like, there's like no citations.

It's this crazy stuff. It's, you know, it's like something out of some grindhouse Nazi exploitation movie. And I'm going to be wrong. I like that kind of stuff. But it does not help if we're trying to identify, you know, facts on the historical record. So this is what I could put together because this topic is like a pet kind of obsess. session of mine, like many esoteric things. So yeah, unless people are really truly thirsty for more Oswald Mosley, or I have

questions they want me to cover or clarify, I think we can move on from Oswald Mosley and the British Free Corps. Question about the American and the British press. How much during the war were they reporting on the how international the German army was. It's hard to say everything in the United States

anything that the press wanted to cover relating to the war, it had to go through the OWI, the office of war information. You know, and they had you know, they wouldn't allow photographs of dead Americans to be shown and when somebody

snuck some through, that was a huge deal. And it was odd like what they objected to do and what they didn't. But the consistent pattern, the way they cast the Germans and part of this owed to the delegate situation of having to negotiate with Darlaan

in like North Africa, who wasn't actually, who was a fascist. they kind of had to pretend that this is the German army, you know, and yeah, there's some turncoat volunteers helping the SS, but these are the Hans just oppressing everybody. You know, there was kind of, without the omissions of the fact that this was a, there was a million non-Germans under arms, like the omission of that from what was being reported kind of speaks for itself. you know like in the case of uh in the case of uk propaganda it's a bit more nuanced but i mean a lot of there's prejudices in britain against uh you know like during war one despite the fact that like bismarcki in germany which velhelmine germany was very much the legacy of and velhelm's wife wouldn't even let catholics in their house but they're trying to kind of cast like

the Hans and Roller 1 is like these retrograde like Catholic brutes, you know, who are, you know, they're, they're not in the modern age like civilized people are. And there was some aspect of that, you know, kind of caricaturing like the haun is sort of like this stand in for like European barbarism. But, yeah, and stuff that went to the OWI, you never saw. like any statement of like, you know, yeah, there's like a bunch of, you know, there's a bunch of Kazakhs and Romanians and Italians and Frenchmen and Norwegians, you know, like engaging the U.S. Army right now. There was like none of that. Yeah, not to mention the French that were the first to engage the American forces.

Yeah, an African torch. Yeah, exactly. They were just like Nazi forces. All right. Well, if people want to do. and do a Q&A. We'll see what kind of questions. I'll throw it out there for people to let questions roll in. And if there's enough, if there's enough, we can do a Q&A. But yeah, otherwise we'll move on from this, as I think it was a great topic. And we didn't expect this to go seven episodes,

but it, yeah, but it's perfectly fine. I think we had enough comments of people saying, yeah, I'm glad it did. So, yeah, just do plugs real quick. And we'll have Yeah, for sure. My substacks, Real Thomas 777. That's substack.com. That's my main platform. And I am at long last, like, uploading the movie that my friend tonight made. The first Thomas TV, like, proper episode, you know, it's a couple hours long.

I had to figure out the best way to monetize it. I'll explain. And I promise I will. we'll upload it this weekend. There was a couple of delays. And I'm dealing with like identity theft bullshit now and like my business bank account. I shouted this out on a sit rep on substate, which is nobody's problem but my own. And I'm indemnified.

It'll be fine. It's just a hassle. And obviously, because it's my business account, I can't like link anything to it until that bullshit gets resolved. So, but it's common. I promise. Thanks for being patient. And on social media, my alt is at capital REO underscore number seven, H-O-M-A-S-777.

And that's where you can find me. Or you can search me into my garment name and I will come up. Until the next subject. Thank you so much, man. Take care. Yeah, you're welcome. Thanks for hosting me, man.