The Pete Quiñones Show - The Thought of Eric Hobsbawm - Complete w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

61 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.This is the complete audio of the series in which Thomas discusses the thought and work of Eric Hobsbawm. Thomas' SubstackRadio Free Chicago - T777 and J BurdenThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Buy Me a CoffeeThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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Volkswagen financial services Ireland limited subject to lending criteria terms and conditions apply Volkswagen financial services are limited trading as cooper financial services is regulated by the central bank of Ireland I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingones show after a little bit of a break Thomas is back how are you doing Thomas I'm very well thanks for giving the opportunity to collaborate on some stuff before the big Portland basket weaving event. And this is an important subject area, I mean, for just on its own terms, but it dovetails rather splendidly and kind of like indexes with the long form stuff I'm working

on. And it's especially timely with kind of the trajectory of been trying to steer things, at least in our kind of intellectual circles, like not, I don't like vanity or just because I've got a hobbyist interest in this stuff. But it's fundamentally important. And I'll get into that as we roll out this subject. Yeah, our buddy, Mr. Rimbo, who was on the episode where you were, you guys were talking about being on the ground at the DNC.

He's the one who recommended this. So shout out to him and everything. So, um, that's my whole. He's an essential part of film land fiction, even though he's even though he's not truly local and he's like an essential part of like my entourage.

Like he's he's gonna be hitting Portland with me, which is awesome. Yeah, when you said how much you guys hung out and everything, I figured he was local to you. And then when he told me where he was from, I was like, holy shit.

No, he's a good dude. And he, he's built up for him on vacation time, so he traveled a fair amount. And I'm lucky he's, he likes Chicago and like a lot of, like wallbanger and hunger the die merchant they were in town last weekend and we had a great time but

you know they hadn't been to shytown before and i think people think it's either really grimy because of what they see on the news and all that kind of cap about how awful it is here or they think it's just kind of like or they think it's just kind of like new york city was smaller like they they were impressed how cool it is and so rimbo i yeah we we have a lot of fun here man and he's he's a really good dude. I owe him a lot. And I mean, I will have a fellas a lot. But he, he especially, he sends a huge amount. He's like a research machine. And I mean, I'd like to think I am too, but I'm not as young as I once was. And I'm certainly not as young as he is. And he, he's always finding, like, really, really great sources that I've never, I've never come across.

cool well the wife and I talked about this this past year and it didn't happen but um we're going to have to drive up and hang out with you like when the weather breaks once winter breaks come up for like the spring or something like that yeah that'd be great man you'll have a lot of fun and um so well uh mrs queue there's uh there's a lot of there's a lot of stuff i can show you guys that you'll really dig man everybody has fun when they come here and i'd like to think i'd like to think I'm a pretty decent tour guide, man. All right, let's get into it.

Mr. Eric Hobbsbom. A lot of people probably have never heard of him, but you mention him all the time, usually in passing, usually just quoting him or something like that. So let's do the deep dive. Osbaum, he was a true left-hagalian. People invoke that signifier or designifier

or designation rather, to talk about any Marxist academic, because in the public mind and kind of an academic culture, you know, any Marxist historian or historical writer is, you know, axiomatically a left Hegelian. I take exception to that descriptor for a few reasons. I mean, you can't, like, on its own terms, dialectical materialism, it can't be Hegelian because it removes, you know, providential causation from its, it's, uh, from, from, from its historicism.

Um, you know, there's a, arguably it abolishes metaphysics. You know what I mean? Obviously, so I mean, that's, that it's, it's something of, as our Marxist friends themselves would say, a fatal contradiction. but Hobbsbomb really was like a left-hagalian in the purest sense and I think his take on things I mean obviously we don't know

and I've read imperialism by Lenin many times but I mean Lenin wasn't Lenin was kind of the consummate political soldier you know it's not like he was some prolific I mean he was prolific for the role he was in

in terms of his academic output but you know it's not like he was it's not like he was like angles or something and and putting out you know endless endless manuscripts or something but i i see hobbs one probably was like the most like lenin himself you know in terms of his kind of political ontology as well as in terms of how we characterize historical processes and you know how outcomes they're in should be judged you know whether they are whether

whether they advance the revolutionary imperative in a progressive sense or whether they are self-defeating you know and so Hobbsbom I think of him too was he was really much kind of like a counterweight to Ernst & Olty they had a lot of similarities

like their background's very different you know Hobbsbaum was a Polish Jew whose father was an English subject but there's there's commonality to their I mean they're very

they're very much opposites or were very much opposites but there's sort of a common frame of reference in terms of what they would have viewed as authoritative and you know what they consider to be sort of the essential

canon of political philosophy and Habsbom also he got this reputative people haven't really read him so they view him as like this unreconstructed quote unquote Stalin That's not really true, but he did refuse. He had contempt for the new left, and he refused to abandon allegiance to the Soviet Union in 56 and in 68. You know, he was an Orthodox, in Cold War terms, an Orthodox Marxist, which meant he was in the Soviet camp.

And in the Senate of Soviet split, he had great disdain for China for various reasons. so these like schismatic tendencies the fact he opposed all these schismatic tendencies and the fact he was someone critical at Khrushchev like that didn't make him some hardline Stalinist you know like he wasn't the kind of guy

who would say sit there and say like Eric Hocker was like a great general secretary or that like the DDR had like a perfect system and there were guys who thought that way you know but so the key to

the key to this does kind of require like a deep dive and I find myself you know so people might ask themselves you know what does this have to do with the present I mean a couple of things you know if you want to understand the 20th century

you've got to understand Marxist Leninism you want to understand Marxist Leninism but you got to understand the body of theory and its theory of history that you know kind of like frame the conceptual horizon

that nourished its revolutionary imperatives. You know, and if you want to understand the 21st century, you got to understand the 20th century and that entire dialogue of the process. Plus today, this kind of thought, this kind of true

leftagalian thought, it's made a comeback. Like, guys, I think the guy Jackson Hinkle, and a lot of people think he's a crank. He's really not. You know, and like, he's, I think he's partly funded by the same kinds of elements that fund like Zuginov's

like reconstituted communist party I'm not saying that's sinister you know I shout out about this on social media but um you know these guys aren't woke

you know that's why when Hankville defines himself as like a social conservative that's not inconsistent you know and um that's one of the reasons when people drop this bullshit calling everything

they don't like Marxist. It's like that's it's not like Kamala Harris isn't a Marxist you know Obama is not a Marxist like American American style social engineering and all the kind of bizarre stuff that goes into that isn't Marxism you know so I think I think this stuff is more timely than a lot of people willing to acknowledge you know even if even if political theory is not really you know

your proverbial wheelhouse or something, but I'm going to jump around a bit. If it's too scared or shot, or if something's not clear, like, please stop me and I'll kind of adjust. No problem. Go ahead. No problem. I'll, I'll interrupt if I have something. Oh, yeah.

No, for sure. In 1994, Hobbsbom. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs, when the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November.

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with the exception of the Thatcher era, and we'll get into that in a minute. But in 1994, when a lot of kind of retrospective stuff on the Cold War was popping up in media. you know it's one like Nixon was I mean Nixon died I think in 94 like 94 95 but you know Nixon had been making the rounds in 1990 1992 um there was there was a lot of a lot of a lot of cold or academics who were being asked you know for their to render kind of their their diagnosis of the events of the preceding half decade and stuff um hasbaum uh he's being interviewed by Michael Ignativ. You know, and Ignativ was very much

trying to put him in the hot seat and asking him loaded questions. And Osmond famously said that had the Soviet Union succeeded in realizing a communist society and had it been able to

fulfill its ambition of, you know, facilitating a world historical revolutionary imperative. Habswam said that the deaths of 20 million people or however many perished in Stalin's death camps would have been worth it. So Ignatio, you know, famously like Dan clutching at his pearls, proverbially speaking, and Habswam's rebuttal was, you know, Marx himself said that no great movement has been born without, you know, the shedding of blood. And, you know, how's going to follow it up by saying, you know, self-sacrifice isn't the only kind of sacrifice that was in the contemplation of Marx or Lenin or anybody else.

You know, but this wasn't the standard mea culpa or whatever, like a lot of like, a lot of kind of like Normicons think as well as a lot of kind of new left types. this wasn't just Hodgwan being deliberately callous or something but you've got to understand the vantage point from where he's speaking like historical processes aren't they're not the result

of conspiratorial designs by by criminal actors you know they're not even if you're a true vanguardist even if you kind of accept Rousseau is a view of the general will

and a Havswell very much did you know of course the general will doesn't speak he's not Rousseau wasn't referring to like the body politic as a whole

like it could be just like narrow discrete elements within the political organism whose whose commitments and his conceptual horizon like indexes very strongly you know with a revolutionary leadership element

you know um but uh that does but these people are still what they're doing as they're engaging very intimately in psychological and political terms with historical processes.

They're not creating these conditions. So if you ask, so trying to put Nolte on the Hotsie like this, or trying to put Hazzle on the Hotsie like this, it's similar to what Haramaz and his Aege would try to do to Nolte. You know, like, oh, you're justifying these monstrous crimes.

You know, nobody's justifying anything. But if you're talking about the historical process and you're talking about warfare at massive scale, at literally planetary scale, we're not talking about decisions made by discrete individual actors. We're not talking about people committing crimes. You know, we're talking about events that are truly providential. Or, you know, if you're an atheist like Hasbom, truly providential. Okay. And even if you assign a purely material, a conflation of purely material causes, you know,

to these things it's a constellation of variables so myriad so complex at such scale it nobody can be said to be like responsible as a as a as a causative agent in proximate terms so who was who was who was eric hosbaum i thought was actually born in egypt you know his father was Leopold Percy Habsbaum. It's believed that the original surname was Upsbom, but a combination of deliberate anglicization of the surname. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th

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who was originally from the east end of London but he was a Polish Jew his mother was a Jewish woman named Nelly Grun who'd come from a middle-class family and then what was then the Hathrow Empire

in Austria Um, Hadswom relayed that, like, he was so consciously Jewish because his parents conveyed to him, you know, the, like, like, to take his ethno seriously. But he said he was raised in basically, like, an atheist household. He's like, it was a very Jewish household, but it wasn't religious. You know, and that, that wasn't really strange for, uh, Havsum was born in 1917. I mean, that was, that's very much a 20th century thing. You know, I haven't said to people again and again, like, nobody thinks this way anymore. Like, the remaining, the remaining self-declared atheists who have any kind of public profile like nobody takes them seriously anymore

you know and I mean really that kind of thing was dead by you know by the end of the 1990s but um there were some there was some peculiar holdouts and it had something of a it had something of a

a media profile particularly in new media right before it's kind of final death as a culturally relevant quantity. But, you know, so a high hospital had a fairly cosmopolitan upbringing. You know, he wasn't some ghettoized Jew who was, you know, sitting around reading marks

and angles and kind of like nursing these grudges and stuff. I mean, like, don't get me wrong. I'm sure that his ethnos and the, you know, the kind of conceptual biases and intrinsic to that sort of household, like absolutely informed his perspective, but, you know, he wasn't,

he wasn't some guy from, you know, the pale settlement or something or from some impoverished, you know, tenement in Poland. And I've heard people speculate to the fact who want to throw shade out of him. Like, that's just, like, not accurate. But he, uh,

he was a teenage, he, uh, ultimately, um, his father died when he was when he was quite young I think when he was 12 or 13 years old he was sent to uh he was sent to live with his aunt a couple years later him and his sister did when his mother died as well um his maternal aunt and uh they settled in berlin and then when uh with a national socialist revolution um picked off or whatever when the national socialist got their parliamentary plurality

which became a parliamentary majority after the KPD was outlawed under the attack on the Reichstag, the Reichstag fire. You know, they had an absolute majority. But, um, Hotswam returned to the United Kingdom.

When I say returned, his father was an English subject. So young Hotswam wasn't considered, like he was considered, he was also considered to be a subject to the empire, you know, and not, um, subject to laws regarding alienage and things like that. Um, he attended King's College at Cambridge. Um, you know, he became, uh, he joined the Communist Party of Great Britain, basically as, like, as soon as he was of age. You know, I think when he was 19 years old. I think he had to be 18 to join, um, in those days.

but um you know you got he took his doctorate from uh from cambridge and i believe his thesis his PhD thesis is on the history of the phavian society and phavian socialism you know and um

Hobbsbom's commitments as well as his um his particular kind of brand of uh of Marxist thoughts. It was very much it was

very much derivative of that of the English Communist Party or the Communist Party of Great Britain. When I say derivative, I don't mean that in punitive terms. What I mean is, Hobbswam quite literally identified himself as a quote, red Tory.

You know, and we'll get into what they means and the implications of that. But guys like Kim Filby and the Cambridge 5 they were cut from the same kind of cloth. You know, the

Communist Party of Great Britain. They were very much a fifth column during the Cold War in a way that other similar elements weren't on the continent because they were Orthodox, Marxist, a lot in this. They unconditionally supported

the Soviet Union. You know, they, so they were very much in the Cold War. You know, these weren't a a much at Trotskyist, you know, trying to trying to cultivate electoral respectability nor are they you know nor are they

like activist liberals the kinds who find themselves in an NGO cynicures who were kind of communist in name only like they were the genuine article they were pro-Soviet they were loyal to Stalin subsequently they were loyal to his memory but they were not

uncritical you know they they very much viewed the situation as you know, for all of its frailties and for all of its less than ideal characteristics and situatedness you know, the Soviet Union is what we have

in this world and this world is all there is. You know, so it's suicidally short-sighted, you know, in political terms to divorce oneself from the ambitions and the destinies of

the Soviet system. And interestingly, Hobbom, he served as a combat engineer during World War II. And he caught some flak at the time and in a decade subsequent went because when the Molotov-Ribbentraught pact was signed, Hobbsbaum and his ideological fellows and comrades,

they'd shout down people who are critical of the Third Reich, because he said, you know, alliance of convenience this may be, or, you know, however contrived is non-aggression pact may be, you know, this is the, this is the, way things must be, you know, in order for the revolution to be consolidated in situ. So, anybody opposing the Reich or calling for its destruction or calling for Moscow to preemptively assault it, which Moscow was absolutely planning on doing, but people didn't know this outside of, you know, cadre's proximate to the Red Tsar Stalin.

You know, he considered this to be like a counter-revolutionary tendency, which was the orthodox perspective, the Orthodox Marxist's perspective. But other than that, Hasbom was very much like a doctrinal anti-fascist, like not in Nuremberg terms. But, and we'll get into this, probably in the second episode, Hobbem's take on fascism and national socialism is interesting. It's by no means, you know, dismiss, totally dismissive

and some punitive capacity. He says that the strength of fascism was that it mastered techniques and technology. It was able to imbue people with, like, a fervent kind of energy to realize its objectives, but he considered to be, quote, philosophically impoverished. And he didn't really seem to understand,

and he doesn't understand the kind of trajectory of, pick the Schopenhauer, Nietzsche, Heidegger, to national socialism. Now there's some people who have like a punitive like Sunderbag take on Germany and the Germans of the people and the German state. That's not what Hasbom was. That's not what I'm saying.

And that's not, you know, and Hasbom wasn't prone to that kind of mode of thought either. But like a lot of Dr. Marxist, he couldn't really see the forest of the trees. I don't think he understood the enduring power of continental philosophy outside of Marxist-adjacent thinkers, you know, and informing what was going on in Italy, what was going on in Germany, you know, in the inner warriors. I don't think he understood this. I think it was one of his blind spots owing to adherence to...

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Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. You know, an ideology and Marxism that quite literally inundates people with like a missionary zeal. That sometimes leads me kind of tunnel vision. but um you know it's uh and again like i said i believe like the red troy uh moniker you know they became kind of bandied about in the UK about um even a lot of these like labor types you know back when the labor party was a real party you know there were these guys who were basically uh like we'd consider them in America to be like you know we consider them to be like like right wing type of figures, but for the fact that, you know, they, they were very much socialists in their,

in their orientation. You know, they believed in state socialism, both as like an ethical postulate, as well as a kind of inevitability if, if the modern state was to survive, you know, with any kind of, with any kind of legitimacy. so yeah how how'd they're going to say like Tory communists uh not a red Tory but uh that uh

and again that seems paradoxical to people but again it's I I refer to Zuganovs Communist Party you know to Jackson Hinkle but even you know in historical capacities this resonated with people who

had to develop understanding of political theory the Marxism of the Frankfurt School, people like Haaswomen contempt for that. They were like, this is degenerate garbage. This is, this is therapy for people who want to strike some kind of protest pose, but are basically imbibing the kind of alienation that's deliberately engineered by capitalist societies.

and saying like, oh, but this can be mitigated if, you know, we have unrestricted access to the sexual hedonism or if we can, you know, partake of these material rewards or, you know, if we can, if the state becomes a kind of, if the state becomes kind of a kind of ersach, like, erasauts like therapeutic mechanism or, or, or, or kind of rabbinic panel or like a, or like an airsoft. like church whereby like declaratory judgments that's not how like validate these these like contrived like postmodern identities you know and i mean that's that that's anybody who's a true communist partisan was you know it was disgusted by that you know i mean i'm not i'm not saying maricism is is good i'm not saying it's like good quality is because it doesn't but they were and they are serious guys. And if you understand, and we'll get into this in a minute, if you understand it kind of like Marxist-Leninist's view of the historical process,

you know, basically, basically they view like a lot of liberalizing tendencies to have resulted in a kind of reactionary ethos among people. And to the end of their estimation that's where nationalism comes from. Like nationalism isn't this really organic thing. I'm not talking about nationalism, meaning like caring about. your race or your ethnos. I mean, like, nationalism in the form of, yeah, this is the country of Poland.

So, like, you know, according to this arbitrary criteria, like, whoever speaks Polish is, like, part of the body politic. And anybody outside of that, you know, is not. And, you know, despite the fact that, you know,

the existence of this government is deleterious to, you know, the, kind of organic, the variables that constantly like an organic communitarian life. You know, if we like fly the flag and, you know, make this language, the state language, you know, we're somehow, you know, guarding tradition or something. Like, that's what they're talking about. And in their view, it's an effort by people whose lives are totally disrupted by future shock,

basically you know and by the advancement of productive processes such that you know labor is no longer a complete process that people partake of in order to see through you know the creative development of of an object or a thing or um a necessary activity from start to finish you know but it just becomes an artifact of mechanization. You know, the discrete aspects of which humans are still required or needed to perform. But, I mean, you're performing these activities in endless repetition without any meaningful experience of the totality of its prudfulness. You know, and the company are total strangers, you know,

who's only um the only affinity between you and them is it's kind of accident of locale or whatever you know that that's what they're talking about but uh you know and so people like hasbaum even if they didn't uh do things like religious observance as as particularly positive they were laudable. You know, they viewed it as, you know, an anthropological feature of the historical process, you know, whose time arrives and then passes. But they, but they did view, you know, communitarian bonds of whatever they may be, you know, whether they're like, you know, promise on culture or, um, sectarian affinity or what have you. You know, like in the historical moment in which those things are relevant, they consider those things valuable.

you know because at the end of the day to immerse lenin it's like the individual doesn't matter you know so whatever facilitates like the dignity of you know um the laboring class or classes you know is is basically like a social good okay so somebody like hosbom would be you know seeing a bunch of people saying like uh you know marriage or like pair bonding isn't important all that matters is like sterile sex and, you know, the catharsis you get from engaging that kind of stuff or, you know, all that matters is, you know, people being liberated from obligations to others or obligations to history, you know,

you know, the highest good is being free to, like, you know, spill out wealth on yourself and cultivate these kinds of distractions that, that, um, facilitate pledging gratification. Like, he had contempt for that. and basically any Orthodox Marxist does. You know, like, again, they're not woke at all. They're view on race, and they're view on race, too, like, it's not, I've done this point again and again, too, like, Marxists don't think race is important,

but they're not anti-racist. Like, there's no reason. They don't think there's anything wrong with, like, a bunch of immigrants, like, swabbed, like a formerly Western country, but they don't think that should be a priority, I think. you know and this idea that this idea that they're you know this idea that um racial identity needs to be like socially engineered out of existence like they'd have no like truck with that you know like Stalin did um try to like uh what he called the nationalities problem that definitely tracks you know

with like ethnic cleansing under us because of civil rights in America but but that's because the nan that quote nationalities were causing problems for the party and for the central committee. You know, and if they weren't causing problems, like, it wasn't so much a priority. Wasn't it because the, like, the nationalities that he had a problem with, he considered to be diaspora nationalities that could possibly collude with their home countries? That was part of it. Yeah, that was part of it definitely.

And that's why, that's one of the reasons why, one of the reasons the Soviets assaulted Poland. I mean, it was obviously because, you know, there was a geostrategic imperative to be able to deploy in depth and things like that. But also there was like an active like Ruthenian minority there that Stalin was convinced we're going to try and like reinforce the Ukrainians, like an event of open war. Yeah, it was all that stuff. And don't get me wrong also. Like I'm not, I'm not, I'm not sitting here defending the concept of like new Soviet man. Like eventually like, identity and characteristics relating to historical

memory, like we're slated for annihilation under like a communist system. And Hotswam would have absolutely agreed with that. But my point is, guys like Havon weren't sitting around saying like, you know, we need to settle like African

people in Ireland because it's not right that it's 100% Irish. Like they view that as like it's nonsensical. You know, just like people like Habs bomb when Nuremberg kicked off, the proceedings. Ready for huge savings? Well, mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back.

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Arland Limited. Subject to lending criteria, terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited, trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. You know, the view from Moscow was, why are we gonna, why are we gonna like declare Jews

to be this like murdered population? You know, we lost 25 million people fighting the fascists. You know, like you're not, there are, and plus there are no Jews in the Soviet Union. You know, there's like Soviet citizens, you know, there's the body politic, and there's like our ops, And there's the most people outside of that.

You know, and then there's, like, Zionists and other, like, other vanguard tendencies, trying to exploit, you know, grievances of the nationalities to undermine socialism. Like, that was their view of it. You know, and even today, like, that's why this carries over into today, like, the way the Russian Federation views things. Like, the Russians are always, always, always going to view their enemies as Nazis and fascists. how would they not okay but when they talk about that they're not they're not they're not saying it like the way like

like like like like chuck schumer means it you know that or they're not saying that you know these people are like anti-gay or they're or these people don't respect you know um the inherent dignity of all people and they're not into diversity that's not what they're saying at all like they mean something very specific by it. And, you know, that's that it's, it's, it's both a, a, uh, a, uh, it both also, you know, the ancestral memory, the great patriotic war, as well as there's still like a lot of, there's still a lot of like leftygh alien thought like in Russia. You know, even somebody like Dugan, and I like Dugan, I, I, I mean,

a lot of Russian academic culture, I find kind of alien. Just because I'm like very much an anglophone person and that's not I'm not putting shade on like the Eastern Slavic peoples or something But uh, I don't find it I mean they're very much like a different people okay But even a guy like Dugan There's very much like leftagalian strains of like Leninus thought like in stuff that he postulates and he's like very much like a I mean, he's very much a committed Christian, you know, like Eastern Christian. You know, that was a bit of a tangent, forgive me if that was kind of outside the scope. But I mean, this stuff's important, you know, not just to clarify what we're talking about.

And my kind of primary wheel-outs is political theory. But, you know, just structuring the kind of conceptual landscape in which we're mired. just declaring anybody in the left be a Marxist. Like that doesn't make any sense. That's like that says that's this fucking retarded

is saying that like Donald Trump is a fascist or like, or the people who avidly like follow his, you know, media and political career and support him, you know, are like fascists.

Like it's just as ridiculous and at odds in reality as as saying, that but um yeah i'll try to i'll try to pick it up a little bit um no worse or reduce the tangents but uh i was kind of magnum opus um it was a four-valium uh study um called the age revolution age revolution 1789 to 1848 and the first volume dropped in 1962 um

This is a seminal work of historicism, in my opinion. You can find the abridged version of it in a series of PDF files if you dig around. If people are really interested, I'll throw it up on my substack. But, you know, basically, it's a... The Hasbom, like, Modernity really arrived. with the French Revolution. Okay. And what I mean by that, and like what he conveys in the first volume of this age of age of revolution,

is that, you know, the overwhelming majority of people in Europe in 1789, they still, they still live like people did in the medieval period. You know, there was, you had this kind of very, very slim, I know, of dedicated urbanites, you know, and people who are close to technology and productive processes facilitated by technology. But almost everybody, they're living, you know, basically as subsistence farmers or as people, you know, laboring with the household as the lociutto production, you know, and essentially bartering and trading on things, they could make you know within the household you know this wasn't um i think people this idea that you know after uh like upon the onset of the age of discovery or whatever like suddenly things

became moderate and everybody lived in a city or like a town but it just things were low tech compared to today like that wasn't most people in 1789 live not much different than they did in 1389 okay and this is fundamentally important. And that's kind of where Hobbsbom, it's subtle, but it's very much there. And I consider it essential to understanding something of his political, something of his ontological claims about politics. As I said a minute ago in a slightly limited context, you know, when Rousseau talks about the general will,

and I highly recommend Rousseau to anybody on the right. He's very important. I first read him when I was about 16, and that completely changed my perspective on political theory. But part of it's because figures are lost in translation, particularly French to English. there's a lot of there's a lot of subtle concepts

intrinsic to the French language particularly if you're talking about metaphysics or politics or anything conceptual that really doesn't translate but the general will like Russo again Russo is not talking about some majoritarian consensus

of like the whole body politics describing it as general the way to understand that is to mean something bigger than like a discrete individual actor or actors. You've got to think about it as inexplicably bound up to zeitgeist, like as a concept. Okay. So the general will, it might only be like a hundred guys out of a population of like five million people.

But for whatever reason, they restride the zeitgeist. They've got like the gumption, sort of the intelligence in political terms. and the motivation and the balls to see through purely historical and a revolutionary imperatives, you know, in a way that has a formative effect, you know, either as like a reformist tendency or alternatively, it can be a tendency towards creative destruction and oblivion. but basically the general will describes this like intangible tendency or sensibility that animates this this cadre in deeply psychological terms and animates them to realize a revolutionary imperative

often too this dovetails in peculiar ways with whoever the leadership element is of the state as it exists you know in situ okay but that's um so a hogglo makes a lot of that in age of revolution okay because a lot of court history that is now if that's the jingman revolution it's a combination to like goofy stuff, I think people felt from stuff like, like, late muse or something, where it's like, oh, everybody was living in poverty and the crushing misery

of these slums. So there was like this uprising. Like, that's not, that's not what happened. And again, you know, the material conditions of 1789, the purely material conditions weren't radically different

than centuries past. Okay? Conceptual they were totally different. And that's what I mean when I point out that Hossbaum was a true leftagalian.

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even people who are pretty outside the mainstream and pretty far left. They still cite that kind of stuff. I would think that Agent Capital would be their kind of go-to. And it's

highly, it was a highly respected treaties because it showcased a genuine understanding of economics. you know and I I generally agree with Burnham there's not a quote Marxist economics because Marxism

isn't a science it's not a theory of economics you know it's a series of sociological postulates and claims about the historical process

you know but there's not quote Marxist economics you know like a Marxist economist you know, he'll arbitrarily weigh inputs, you know, based on his own conceptual biases about what, in particular, concrete terms, is like driving the, you know, the stage of the historical process, you know, that he finds himself in, or that was the, you know, epoch in which the data being coded and interpreted occurred. you know, um, it's, uh, it begins with the conclusion about the human condition as it relates to historical and political phenomena. And then, and then, and then seeks out, um, variables that, that can substantiate it in, uh, in partisan terms. You know, um, and there's some of that in a lot of Hadswell's writing, but he, but again, it, He understands pure economics of such a thing that he said to exist better than most people.

I mean, including, I don't think academics are any great shakes, but I mean, including people who, you know, were in, you know, his peer group as a, as a political partisan and as a political theorist. And you know what can And This is also what explains Hasbom's like lifelong dedication to communism Because it's a total theory of history

You know It's not something you take on for Because you're alienated And like want some protest identity I mean yeah I'm sure some people do that But they're not serious people And they're certainly not They're certainly not writing stuff

You know like on a par with the age of revolution in the age of capital. And Haswell never hid that. But he also, when a Haswam's collaborators on a lot of scholarship and a lot of his work product was this guy, Eric Forner,

Forner was known, he became as like Firebrand, who was like constantly bashing Gorbache off. and you know and they're showing these these punitive declarations about a Gorbachev is forsaking the revolution and he's a traitor to the Sovietism

and you know into the socialist community of nations as well as the as well as the political parties that are you know behind who exist in the capitalist world as well like Hasnone never did that

it's not because he was worried about his public image, I mean, he would defend Stalin publicly. It's because if you are a true Marxist Leninist, like he was, like the failure of the Soviet Union was ordained by that same process. You know, in Hasbom's

his unconditional loyalty to the Soviet Union contrary to its enemies that didn't entail some like slavish, like uncritical view of it. You know, when when Cruzeff was

assailing Stalin's memory and you know by name attempting to impeach the personality cult you know obviously

after after um 1960 after um after um 954 954 to 56 they're in you know

Hasbom said to his comrades, you know, at cadre level, you know, we need to take a hard look at Stalin's tenure and, you know, what was laudable and what went wrong and what, you know, was in fact a kind of revolutionary tendency because otherwise, you know, the revolution won't survive. And Hazzam was honest, too, Osbaum obviously had a lot of respect for the Russians as a people. But he, you know, he was always, he was a Soviet partisan, but with reservations. Because he was the first to make the point, you know, the revolutionary imperative didn't spark in the most hyper-advanced capitalist country. It didn't happen in Germany. It didn't happen in the UK. It happened in Russia where the capitalist class was on very tenuous ground. You know, and were they, the opponents of the revolution were really these Tsarist elements who were incredibly hard guys.

They were god-fearing people. They were patriots. But they were thrown in alter reactionaries. I don't mean that punitively at all. but that's what they were you know they weren't there weren't some capitalist element that

you know could draw upon this great power available to them by you know the productive processes that can literally extract wealth out of the dirt you know that's not that's not the Bolsheviks were facing down and murdering

you know so they they kind of knocked down a house and cards in what became the Soviet Union, you know, and Oswald never lost sight of that. See, on the one hand, you know, you must stand with the Soviet Union. The Soviet Union is the beating heart of the socialist community of nations and of the revolution, you know, but that doesn't mean that, you know, one must uncritically accept every feature of

of the Soviet state. And Hasbam was critical of state socialism from day one. Like he considered it at a necessary stage but he wasn't That's why the reason I object to people saying Oh, he was like the Stalinist.

Like a true Stalinist was was or is you know, somebody who looks at the Soviet state as like the zenith of statecraft. And they do that as like a positive thing. You know, basically, you know, basically, basically this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this, this mighty empire of, uh, you know,

that like, leads the world in, in, in, um, in terms of how, like, you know, the industrial proletariat is valued, you know, it's a superpower because of its military, might and its mastery of techniques, including nuclear weapons, and the ability to deploy into orbital space and things like that. You know, like these, and these guys do exist, you know? I mean, like, then is now. Like, Hodgman was not at all one of those guys, okay? Um, to be clear.

Um, let me see our man to my outline. Like, um, I'm not, uh, I'm not an F-A-G-G-O-T who like, you know, I got to stick to the outline. But it does provide me like a conceptual map, so I know where we're at. They don't want to... Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs.

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Yeah, let's, uh, HOSWOMS, I promise, well, I want to get this biographical sort of info out of the way to Lay Foundation. We'll get into the substance of Hobbs' um, you know, intellectual canon in episode two, but I, I want to, I want to get, we need to get into the dual revolution, which is a, it's, it's a, it's a political, theoretical

and a sociological postulating concept that was coined by Hasbaum and now in scholarship on the French Revolution it's just kind of taken, it's just kind of accepted. It's accepted as like an essential

aspect of that body of scholarship. But if I, that's going to take an hour to dive into, so let's let's hold off on that. And I think we're coming on about an hour anyway. So yeah, I think this would be a natural stopping point if that's acceptable.

Perfect. All right. Do plugs and we'll talk about the next episode. Yeah, man. I strongly advise, or I mean, not advise, I suggest it would make me happy if people would check out my substack. And in addition to there being like my podcast there and like some longer form stuff and a pretty active like chat platform. That's where when I shout out stuff like, you know, events and activities we're up on, it shows up there. It's a real Thomas 777.7.7.com. This Saturday, we're meeting at Rosewood Cemetery for our Halloween Cemetery Walk.

And we're going to lay some flowers at Confederate Mound to like honor our forebears and their sacrifice. And for the Orthodox guys and girls, Marcia Eliotti is buried at the same cemetery. And we're going to pay respects to him. And Eliades had a huge effect on impact on my intellectual development. So we're, it's going to be a very positive day,

you know, if somber. But last year we went to Graceland Cemetery. up on the north side and it was it was fantastic and a lot of people showed up but uh you can find me on social media i mean at um capital r e a l underscore number seven h m as 7777 and on there just like check the pinned uh like post i you can find like merch that like my dear friend here creak produces you can find a link to my instagram to my tgram the um my website, like all kinds of stuff. So just, and if you include some of the stuff in the description, man, that would be a great help.

I got it all ready to go. I just copy and paste from the last episode and put it right over. So links to your merch and links to the gum roads. So, yep, that's it. Until the next time. Thank you very much, Thomas. Yeah, thank you, buddy. I want to welcome everyone back to the Picanuono show.

Thomas is here. We're going to go into part two of Eric Hobbsbom. Are you doing, Thomas? I know it pretty well. Thanks for hosting me. Of course. So what are we going to look into today when it comes to Mr. Hobbsbom? I was going to expand upon his historical perspective

and why in substantive terms he opposed the schismatics, the schismatic tendencies and the standard bearers of those things. after 1968. People have every superficial understanding of Marxist Leninism and of what Sovietism was generally. That's why

I object a lot of people banding the phrase cultural Marxism. There's an appropriate context to apply that phraseology. I'm not going to say there's not, but generally people don't apply it in those contexts.

They seem to discern anything or identify anything that's at all like radical or you know progressive and orientation or that's related to the ongoing social engineering

regime and like the paradigm that it gives rise to in like discursive terms they identify that as Marxism and that's grossly incorrect you know and it's not I'm not just playing word games or being like a pet ant or something you know it's important to be clear about

what we're talking about, particularly when we're doing with something as kind of abstract and conceptualist political theory. You know, and a guy like Hobbswell was a real Marxist, you know, and he actively disdained the standard bearers of the sort of

tendencies I just mentioned. You know, not because he was like a good guy, or because he was correct in his assessment of historical phenomenon and the proximate causes of, you know, these punctuated development, in the 20th century, but he did have certain insights into historical processes.

You know, he's the one who coined the phrase, quote, the short century, he referred to the 20th century. I mean, Nolty agreed with that. You know, the short century being the cycle of events that were emerging in 1914 and that ended on November 9th, 1989. you know um contrary the long century

you know after water after waterloo until 1914 i mean after waterloo other than the crimean war and the frank or Prussian war both of which were very localized conflicts and both of which were brief and neither which really

had some destructive impactfulness at scale on the continent one of the reasons why so many mercenaries from Europe fought in the war between the states. And even, you know, Henry, Henry Wurz, the commandant of Andersonville, who was unceremoniously hanged.

That's a really grim and macabre thing, everything about Andersonville and his demise, but he was a Swiss national who found his way of the United States, you know, because that's where the action was. You know, don't get me wrong. Like, all kinds of punctuated things. were happening in Europe of a technological nature of a developmental nature but like power

political affairs weren't really happening there you know I mean in and if you take a long view yes okay that kind of thing is always underway but in war in peace terms there were not punctuated crises there were not you know crisis modalities that were emerging that, you know, generated a need for men under arms and men with adjacent sorts of skill sets, you know, to participate in those sorts of happenings. But in America, obviously, you better believe that was underway. And it's, um, this is a tangent. I'll, I'll make it brief, but you know, McClellan, who was famously sacked by Lincoln,

you know, and he, you know, Lincoln, I'm paraphrasing what, you know, Lincoln family said, you know, I've got a commanding general who refuses to assault. You know, and so his detractor is, and not just among, not just among radical reformers and abolitionists, but even pretty moderate people. They're banned.

they either branded him some kind of coward who was like afraid of being under fire or he was some kind of like secret copperhead. He was neither of those things. He'd been on the ground in Crimea because before the war between the states kicked off other than the Indian wars

which were utterly savage but were not but in scope and scale were very limited. You know other than that like conventional combined arms what was then emerging combined arms.

arms, you know, indirect fire. Like, the only way you really, I mean, liaising with foreign militaries was like something that was done in the Western world anyway, but it's also, like, if you wanted to, you know, if you wanted to, if you wanted to cut your teeth in, in a combat zone, you know, McClellan's generation, well, you went to Europe, you know, you drilled with the Prussians or, you know, you were a liaison to the French or the British. And McClellan saw what was happening on the ground in crime. and he saw like mass artillery and what it was doing to the human body. And he's like, this is horrific.

So he's like if we, you know, if we started, if we start cavalry charging like mass Confederate artillery, like this is going to be a slaughter. And that's what happened, you know. But that's just sort of an aside. But in any event, you know, to bring it back to where we should be at. I did a write up years back of Paul Gottfried's talk and his paper, you know, how the left won the Cold War, because the left did win the Cold War. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a Spend Anywhere card when with Options Card, you can have both.

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We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4.4. Northwest. The people like Habsbaum lost the Cold War, you know, the standard bearers of Sovietism and of, uh,

I don't think Hasbom was a stodont. in the sense that somebody like Dugian kind of is or in the way more more properly he's not a Stalinist in the way that guys like Jackson Hinkle are but I mean he wasn't he wasn't opposed to that tenancy either you know and like we got into he stated in no uncertain terms you know after after the inter-term border came down that you know whatever happened in the Soviet Union had the communist revolution been realized, it would have been worth it in his opinion.

And that's, so he was honest about, you know, about that perspective. And I mean, that's the way every, that's the way every marcus Leninist thought. You know, and such that they still exist today. I don't think guys like Henkel in like the,

kind of reconstitute American Communist Party, they've almost got a presence on it. East Coast these days. They're distinct from like whatever this vestigial communist party USA which are just like a bunch of liberals who don't know what the fuck they're talking about. But kind of like the reconstituted American Communist Party

I mean they believe that too. But they're kind of they're kind of like a dialectical offshoot of what was the Marcos Lenin's perspective. I think that they I think they're big on guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein

and like they subscribe like Global Systems Theory or just serious stuff, but they are like Stalinists. Like they don't, you know, they're, they tolerate religious people these days. They're not, they're not these like doctrinal atheists who view themselves as being at war with established churches and things. Like they're tolerant of that, but they remain like atheistic. Like what does it matter if you kill 20 million people to advance, you know, the realization of true communism? I'm like, it doesn't matter because, well, you know, that that's, that's just creative destruction.

And, and human, if humans are just so much mentioned material, admittedly more valuable than, you know, animal livestock or material things, that may be, as they may be, they're still just like so much, you know, material. You know, and that's important to keep in mind. I mean, I'm not just, I'm not being, you know, I'm not like moralizing here saying, like, and this is why the communists are a bunch of a bunch of the, slavering beast. I think that their worldview, in addition to being kind of laughably obtuse and it's

error, yeah, I believe it's like highly corrupt and morally, but that's at base, it's not really why people like me object to their perspective, you know, but at the same time, you know, I,

for some reason, the kinds of people looks like Chomsky all the time. Don't get me wrong. I think Chomsky wrote some pretty good stuff on linguistics. And he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he, he considered to be kind of insurious degenerates. But, I mean, Chomsky, Chomsky, he's basically, like a moralizer and a polemicist, and I don't think he's got to really develop view of political theory.

But, I mean, I mean, guys on the right, or at least guys kind of adjacent, they don't have they to say Chomsky, but then they act like I'm some weirdo where, like, it's, or, I'm being, like, deviant, if I said, Habsbaum. You know, like, Hotsbom was a serious historian, man. Like, unlike Chomsky, who, like, drops polemic about, like, you know, America is doing mean things. But the, um, I'm like, don't have to be savage. But he, the way Chomsky, you know, he's, he comes out like some hand-ringing old woman. And I don't, I don't, I don't think he's a real political theorist, you know, like, it's, I don't, it's not just me kind of guarding, well, and proverbial

wheelhouse. I, you know, at a level of deep analysis, like Nolty and Hosbaum and, like, economic, political economies, like Joseph Schumpeter, the sorts of insights they were capable of, like, in the moment, most people can't do that, you know, and I meet a lot of guys who have this idea that, you know, oh, you're like a mathematician or, like, you sell insurance or, like, you're, you know, some kind of molecular biologists, but oh, anybody can have a take on political theory. It's like, what the fuck you're talking about? You know, and that's these guys that like no insight. It's not even made of like IQ, man. Like, these guys are like way smarter than I am, you know, but they're, but they're like conceptually illiterate because they can't discern

the relevant patterns and things. You know, like it's, it's not like an intelligence thing. Yeah, I don't think you can be like, I mean, IQ is a religion now on the right, on, on, on, on some parts of the right. I mean, um, if you mention IQ and you do anything to like take one step to, um, say, well, you know, it really doesn't matter with this. They just, oh, that's cope. That's cope, bro. That's cope. Well, no, they're retards. And that's like outmoded thinking. You know, like always making the point, like Bill Gates, I guarantee you has a higher IQ than Mohammed, Pramwell, Napoleon, or Hitler. He's also like a total shithead. He's totally, he's totally devoid of any creativity.

And in some ways, it's a fucking idiot. And, like, nobody's going to die for Bill Gates. Okay? I mean, it's like, okay, great. Like, there's some Chinese guy who, like, faint if you ever saw, like, a girl naked and lives with his mommy. And he's got an IQ of, like, 200. Okay, that's awesome. If I need somebody to do, like, math problems, nobody can do. I'll hire him to do that.

But I don't understand why I should give a fuck. You know, like, it's basically, you know, what IQ is, man. IQ is a it's like it's cold war managerialism whereby it's like look we basically like like we need like widget makers and we need guys who manage the widget factory and we need some criteria where we can identify people who below a certain threshold are basically subnormal and useless that's what IQ is. It's not like you know oh if your IQ is this high you know you're you're going to like lead like a revolution and conquer the Arabian Peninsula or if like your IQs within these parameters, like, you're, you know, a Hitler. I mean, it's fucking retarded. Like, it doesn't... And I mean, for people, I even mean, it's something on Von Misesian sort of like that.

And it's like, you're basically taking... You're basically taking this kind of ridiculous sort of, like, bureaucrats fetish from the public school system and, like, deciding it's like some, like, holy criteria. Like, and they don't even realize that's what they're doing. So, yeah, we'll get into the substance of what we need to talk with. today. I didn't mean to

whip off about tangents. But I made the point before, you know, Hobbsbom, he talked a lot about the origins of nationalism. And to clarify, because I don't want people jumping over my shit, we're not talking about believing in one's ethnos. We're not talking about caring about your race.

We're not talking about any of that. We're talking about this kind of like progressive modernist, like political modality, like organizing modality called nationalism, which is a base of liberal idea. It basically arbitrarily says, you know, kind of the classical view of sovereignty, whether it vests in like a royal dynasty, or whether it vests in, you know, men were kind of like, you know, for all private person, an elected king by the polis. In lieu of that, it says like all these people in this geographic area

who happen to have linguistic fluency and like we've declared the national dialect, you're part of this nation now. You know, it doesn't matter what religion you are. It doesn't matter where your loyalties lie in terms of things that supersede, you know, administrative politics. This is just like the French nation or this is the Polish nation. And famously Hitler said that was about the biggest obstacle to Germany being able to project power on the world stage. is people internalize this nonsense.

And it became this kind of like self-defeating imperative, like, whereby people admired in this kind of alienated circumstance wrought by industrial urban modernity. They kind of like clung to this idea of like a nationalist, like, political model. And again, we're not talking about real like belief in one's ethnoists. We're talking about it contrivance. You know, and the, um, and if, It's also, Habswan made the point, and Rousseau made the same point, nationalism at base is individualistic.

It emerges as a liberal idea and entailed the notion of, okay, here's this nation based on these arbitrary criteria that generally have to do with the ability to communicate and mutual intelligibility. But it's made up in the estimation of people who contrived this ideology of individual citizens, and every individual is recognized by the nation. you know, as some kind of like sovereign decision maker unto himself. Like obviously, if the rubber meets the road, nobody abides that. It was actually in power.

But that's the theory, and that's kind of like the moral mythology of it. You know, this is extremely at odds with the past. You know, where your responsibility was to your monarch or to the local lord and above him, and ultimately, like, to, you know, your faith and the representatives of your confessional heritage. Employers, rewarding your staff? Why choose between a shop voucher or a spend anywhere card when with Options Card, you can have both.

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forward slash northwest and your rights and privileges accrued from your profession or from you know these social and collective or corporate corporate groups that you belong to you know the whole point of nationalism is it tears all that down you know these kind of natural ancient communitarian bonds no no no that's the legitimate now you know you You're just an individual, but you're part of this body politic because you happen to speak French or you happen to speak Polish. Or like, you know, you happen to be somebody who speaks like high German, but you live in Belgium. Like that's what we're talking about. That's what he was talking about.

You know, and that's Cobb's bomb's take, which is well placed, was that conservatism is just like, it's just like liberal individualism. That's basically a kind of class war against Aristotle. by like a thirsty and kind of covetous, like capitalist class, who want to like discredit everything that came before, say, no, no, no, all these things that are important, you know, relating to national identity, like, we're the ones who are the managers of those things. And, you know, everybody's an individual, but you need us to, like, guard these individual rights. Like, that's what nationalism is in the capital end sense. It's not saying, I don't live in multiculturalism, it's not saying I'm proud to be white.

It's not saying, you know, I want my country to be understood Catholic. There's nothing to do with it. Nothing. And that's one of the reasons why these quote-unquote nationalist governments, they like never lead to anything. You know, and the moment they go away, you know, what little kind of concession is there were, they've got to preserving normalcy just like evaporates because it's a, it's a paper house. you know and um hobbsbom was very big

on what he called the dual revolution I mean I was I say he was big on it I mean he identified he identified the dual revolution as a historical phenomenon that came to shape governmental imperatives and came to kind of frame everything related to you know the political sphere of activity both you know

know in theoretical capacities as well as in terms of praxis and what actually developed. Like what did he mean by the dual revolution? Specifically, and as we got into before, last time, we were talking about Hobbes-Borm's kind of like four-value magnum opus, you know, dealing with the age of revolution. Between 1789 and 1848, Haaswant's take is that, okay, you know, the Jacobin Revolution and all this kind of radicalism and all this, all this upheaval. You know, he's like, that was inextricably bound up

with, like, technological and economic changes that constituted this kind of grand future shock. You know, really like the first industrial revolution. So he's like, you can't extricate these things. You know, that's very Marxist's Leninist view of it, but they're not wrong. You can't really, you can't really identify, like, what came first or what was the prime move on?

It was both of these things, you know, kind of like inextricably tethered to one another, a combination of like dialectical process and conceptual activity, as well as, you know, kind of the binding up of economic imperatives with political life in a way that hadn't happened before. So, you know, these enlightenment ideas, which on the one hand are kind of hollow ideological phraseology, these kinds of democracy, but not real democracy, like, you know, procedural, democracy, like nationalism and liberalism. This kind of stuff gained traction because people are getting crushed by these new economic modalities that nobody knew how to manage, you know, and old wealth was being wiped out

hand over fist, you know, so there was catastrophic effect. to this. So people looking for remedies, you know, they were uniquely susceptible to this kind of thoughts. But they also, people develop these kinds of ideas based on these disruptions, you know, because they were kind of ripped out of environments where they had meaningful reference points beyond their own lives, you know, and people's lives are comparatively short then, you know. And so, This kind of taken together, this developed its own momentum. It was both a process and an animating principle as well as a, you know, like a key, like, framing device of the zeitgeist.

You know, now, when the French Revolution was defeated, you know, and particularly after, you know, Waterloo, I mean, because Napoleon was a lot like Cromwell and a lot like Hitler. I agree with Russell Stofley. I think Hitler was more like Mohammed than he was anybody, but and Napoleon didn't have that messianic sensibility. I'm talking in political terms, not in like theological ones. But what happened in the, I mean, what happened, in the reign of terror and what happened in the aftermath

when Napoleon literally trying to conquer the continent and become emperor of Europa the view from what remained the royal courts in Europe and the view from kind of like the nascent political managerial class was this can never ever happen again

okay so the Congress of Vienna metternich kind of first and foremost among this type you know kind of like the whole raison d'etra of state craft became like balance of power you know E Michael Jones makes the point that all rationalist perspectives partake in some way of like Newtonian physics you know this kind of like perfect balance of like dynamic but totally controlled motion it's more complicated than that and Jones is a very like punitive view of like Newton. I don't want to get into that. But he's right about what I just indicated. Okay. And balance of power politics,

that's where it comes from. Okay. And that's why it's misguided when a lot of these people it's kind of like the mantra of the midwit that oh Churchill wasn't crazy and Churchill wasn't totally corrupted, you know, by alien interests. He was just trying to maintain the balance of power, and no European power can become too strong. That's not at all what he was doing. And that was obsolete anyway by the 20th century. That got shot to pieces in 1914, and nobody thought that way anymore. Okay? And that's why it was while it's apocalyptic thinking came about in the 20th century, because what had been the return to

rationalist normalcy that died in the trenches along with millions of guys who got blown to bits. It died very beneath the mud and shit and all of their body parts. Nobody thought that way. And that's not what Churchill was doing. And even if it was,

that that'd be a ridiculous mission to take on in 1939. It would make no sense. But that, that's the that's the source of this kind of like reactionary stance and Haslam calls it reactionary

he calls the Marinish perspective reactionary because it's not truly conservative it's literally a reaction it's saying how do we deal with future shock how do we deal with the disruption of this kind of like rational balancing of furies

how do we restore something manageable and something that is primarily governed by reason here is how we do it we do it by like managing power you know like it's some kind of like like it looks like it's some kind of quantity of energy you know that can be like redirected or kind of purpose towards this or you know almost like an engineering problem okay that's that's what is meant by reactionary because it wasn't nobody not matter niche, not the people at the Congress of Vienna, not not the people who later opposed the 1848

revolutions. Nobody was saying we're going to go back to having, you know, like a king who holds absolute sovereignty. Nobody was saying, we're going to go back to, you know, the Pope being the true like emperor of Europe is God's emissary. Nobody was saying that. It wasn't even

that they would have scoffed at that prospect, but it wasn't even within their contemplation. You know, it was a reality. action, okay, and the fact that it had some trappings of what came before that really had more to do with an interest in stability moving forward and like enlightenment ideology conceptual biases than it did with any like, oh, we got to guard tradition and we got to guard like the organic. Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1500 euro and gift cards annually completely tax-free and even better. You can

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Basis of national life. So this is really important. Okay, this is one of the reasons I cite Hasboa because conservatives are are not traditionalists. They're not trying to preserve, like, the integrity of your race, if that's important to you or whatever. They're not trying to undo modernity. They're not trying to, I'm not even saying good,

but they're not doing that. You know, they're arch-modernists. They're arch-modernist liberals who are trying to manage revolutionary imperatives and stop them from happening, whether they're from the left or whether they're from the right. You know, no matter where they come from, that is their notion. That's why conservatism is bullshit. You know?

And this is a, you know, again, it's if people, I know not everybody wants to sit around reading political theory like I do, but it's like, okay, this is why you should read Hobbsbaum just as like an educated partisan, okay, because

he's right about those things. Like his conclusions in terms of like applied efforts and his conclusions in terms of what's desirable are wrong, but his diagnostic process isn't wrong, and his observations aren't wrong. They're generally correct. You know, and again, the Marxist overemphasized this,

but, you know, the degree, and the degree to which suddenly production got taken out of like a communitarian shop or like your household to go from being like I'm a farmer and you know I'm a subsistence farmer but I have enough surplus to trade with other farmers or going from being like a blacksmith or you're part of some collective with like three other guys and you like make stuff people need getting ripped out of that and going to work in a factory where you're literally pulling a lever or like manhandling some dangerous machine for 10 hours a day that's probably that's about the most disruptive thing that's ever happened to people at scale you know and it's and on top of that too

the introduction of money at scale like anything all indicators of wealth that for 40,000 years quite literally like people were habituated to do no no no no no no now you get a paper certificate and it's fungible

and you can find somebody who like has stuff you need, they'll accept that. This is insane. This is totally insane. You know, and it took decades for people to adapt to that. You know, and it really wasn't until

people born in the 1920s and 30s were totally abituated to that, but it took that long. You know, so the degree to which this disrupted everything that everybody had taken for granted and you know, just

created unmanageable conditions. You know, I mean, think about, too, like trying to manage economic imperatives. I'm not even talking about a planned economy. I'm saying just being able to balance the proverbial, like, ledger bucks. There's a factory that employs 20,000 people. I'm using a pencil and paper and an advocate to try and figure out, like, what our outlays are, like, what we need to produce to be profitable, like what we need, how much we need to earn, like stay afloat, like

what debts we owe to who. At some point, that's going to collapse on itself and people are going to starve. And it happened over and over and over again. And most punctuatedly, it happened in the Great Depression. And it wasn't because of like bankers or whatever like Von Mises think. It was because

of what I just said. That could never happen now because it's been rubberized. Because data management now, it's just simply is turning on a machine. Now, that's incredibly corrupt. People make haste with that. Wealth is wiped out, owing to malfeasance and greed.

But there's not going to be, like, the stock market is not going to plummet 5,000 points because of some like error, because of like some accounting error at scale or because of like a lack of situational awareness that has like a catastrophic impact. That could never happen again. Okay. So when people talk about that, that's stupid. But this was like an everyday reality really from like the close of the 18th century until like like really until like the 1970s. You know what I mean?

So basically people were like costing on the precipice of some kind of like disaster. You know? And that's why people became communist, like the man in the street. And that's why guys like Ernst Talman, who was kind of the consummate like Aryan, like Aryan, like Aryan. German like burger type. Like that's why those guys like factory floor drives being communist. Like communist ideology and its foundation in like a Jewish revolutionary spirit or like sectarian antipathy or like ethno-sectarian hostility.

Like yes, at scale of at dialectical scale and process, like yes, that is where it comes from. But where the rubber meets the road, what I just said is why. it became this this animating imperative that swept up millions and millions of people like that's why you know now it's a bit different there's other reasons why

it would never become a mass movement again you know even though when I say that like Marxist Leninism or like it's it's dialectically altered variant when I say that it's like enjoyed something of resurgence I mean like in terms like fringe elements okay

and there's like a small very small in absolute terms like Vanguard of those guys who are somewhat impressive and kind of have their shit together. And moving forward like this century, they will probably be able to carve out some semi-sovereign spaces locally, however small and scale. But that's what I mean. I don't mean that like, oh, this is resurgent, then there'd be like some sort of highly scaled variant of this again. But one second. But, Hussbaum also, like moving on a bit, you know, all these things, this basic historicism

this is kind of what this kind of what separated Haswell from the schismatics like initially okay because there were always schismatics. I mean, the 68ers were basically the ideological descendant and Sotrowski. Even a whole lot of them were just kind of bandwagoning

and didn't realize that's what they were you know at the cadre level of of the leadership element. That's what they were about, you know, and this is important. And, you know, Hosbaum, his later, his later output especially, and, you know, after people are about 40 or 50, they don't, like, really radically change their viewpoint. I guess what I mean in a moment in condoms. But Hasblum, his later output in, like, especially in 1990s, it dealt a lot with what he

perceived as like cultural decadence, like the kind of corruption of social democracy, the intellectual and moral poverty of the new left, you know, the ability of capitalism, as he perceived it, to resist historical processes and endure beyond, in his estimation, it's what should have been it's kind of viable it's sort of viable life as a conceptual model so people kind of said like

oh how's why I've given this like embittered old guy after the Cold War and saying no I don't believe that he always thought this but it would have been pointless to kind of bandy that like during the Cold War there was this there just wouldn't have been a context and it would have gone without saying and also even

much as like the Orthodox left, you know, the pro-Soviet left, much as they kind of despise the schismatics. I mean, they were literally at war with America and NATO and it's adjacent elements. They weren't, they weren't going to pick like some sectarian fight with a bunch of 60-8ers who were like voting in like the Swedish Green Party when, you know, there's, there's a good possibility at some point. There's going to be a nuclear war with their ops. They're not, that was just was not even within their contemplation.

but in the early 90s Hasbond dropped a book that's I think this might have been his last, I should know this. I think this was his last, he wrote essays subsequently, but I think this is his last, like, published book. It was called the Age of Extremes, the Short Century, the Short Century, 1914 to 1991.

I identify the end of the short century as 1989. Hosbo, 1991, with the formal dissolution of the Soviet Union, sort of clarity. That's, what, met. But he commented on popular culture a lot. You know, and he said, look, he's like in the 60s, popular culture totally changed. You were like before that, he's like the kind of pop culture icons, whether you were talking about like Pet Boone or whether you were talking about John Wayne or whether you were talking about somebody like, even somebody like Steve McQueen or

or some of these guys. You know, they might have represented kind of an idealized vision of Americana. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy a truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar.

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Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say, online or in person. So together, we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. But he's like, just, and he's, and it was very deliberate, and there was something very corporate about that. But at the same time, these kinds of figures and these motifs, they basically mirrored the way that, like, people had always kind of thought. You know, like simple minds that may be to some people. You know, in the 1960s, um,

the kind of like rock star identity, which don't get me wrong, had always, you know, the reason why like old rock and blues guys would always talk about selling your soul to the devil because guys in that life did die young and they ended up in

totally fucked up circumstances. But kind of like the mass murdering of this to like boogeys and like, and lames, you know, he had to find like Janice Joplin, Brian Jones, Bob Marley,

you know, and all, and all this kind of hippie garbage. You know, he's like, okay, these people weren't just viewed as pop culture figures. Like, people decided, these people stood in for like literal cultural icons. You know, thus you have like the kind of like stereotypical like boomer idiot or things. Like the Beatles are like uttering like sacred truths or something, you know, like. And this idea that being old is bad, you know, life is horrible after you're like 28 or 30.

you know, there's something glorious about not getting beyond that stage and, like, dying from partying. You know, Hasbaw's view was like, okay, first of all, this is a way of kind of, like, dumbing people down. And it's a way of kind of like capitalism artificially sustaining itself by selling this kind of like a lifestyle image that's pretending to be radical or pretending to be, like, at odds of what came before. And it is, but not in, you know, the post-1789. sense, you know, and he said that, like, this basically, this kind of passive nihilism turns anybody, you know, basically into sort of like a comatose, like, consumer, you know, and this kind of contempt for older people, he's like, you know, if you're going to say that, like, everything is shit, basically after you're not ruled by your hormones, and I don't, I don't

have contempt for young people, and I don't think Haslon did either, but he's saying this kind of caricature of youth that was presented, you know, by, like, kids. capitalist media in his estimation. You know, he's like, basically you're saying that anyone who has lived long enough are going to develop, like, an evolved view of what of the system we live under a scale, they're bad, or they're like the police, or they're trying to tell you to do things you don't want to do. So it's kind of this, like, deliberate dumbing down under auspices of rebellion.

And that's insightful, because that really is true. and this kind of weird preaching you know these like Rocketbelly guys like Eddie Cochran like Elvis like Buddy Holly um like

you know like like Richie Valins these guys weren't trying to sell people on some lifestyle you know they were like poor redneck guys in Valens case you know they were poor like East LA Spanish guys you know and there was a real

like energy there they had kind of a dark side. I was exemplified by people like Starkweather. I mean, unfortunately. But these guys were never going out and like preaching some weird sociology to people. That wouldn't even occurred to them because that that's not what musicians do. Like the fact that this became part of the package in Hobbswams view, that was totally ideological. You know, that was not some accident.

That wasn't just people in the thing with the zeitgeist. It wasn't just some kind of weird feedback. owing the sort of like the integration of narratives because of TV. No, this was very deliberate. You know, and so in his view, in his view, like basically American pop culture from about 19604, 65, to like the then present, which was like 1993 when he wrote this, he's like, this is basically capitalist propaganda.

You know, and yeah, obviously, in our view, it's social engineering. And Hobbson, they don't particularly care about that on its own term. but again he opposed that stuff because he's like this is basically trying to get you drunk on sex or taking drugs or like clout chasing so that you basically never mature in like a rational adult and you never contemplate like why you're in the condition you're in and you never contemplate like why there's not like any economic justice in his view um you know and again these conclusions really have nothing to do with our perspective but the process he describes and what these what this sort of like pop cultural product represents like he is right about that or he was right about that

you know and he said this stuff had like real um he said that the true like he said that was truly different about this this sort of propaganda as pop culture is threefold you know he's like first he's like youth was always seen

even in cultures that like revered youth. When you're talking about classical Greece or the Third Reich or even like the early Soviet Union, it was still viewed as like a preparatory stage for adulthood in some sense. As, you know, youth is important. The youth are vigorous. We need them to protect us to fight our wars, to, you know, develop passionate ideas

that they can later build upon and innovate. But, you know, this is important because it's a critical stage for the final phase of full human development. that that all was like done away with it's like no youth is some end in itself being old as shit you know being a young being a teenager or a young person that is the zenith of life and your life is miserable after that so you've got to try and hang on to those aspects as much as you can whether it's through taking drugs or like you know including hormones whether it's like refusing to get married so you can like have sex a lot of girls whether it's you know refusing to

behave in a responsible way, whether it's, you know, refusing to take on a real political perspective, because that's like, oh, that's like, you know, that's that square stuff. This all is very deliberate. And this is very, this is an odds basey with every human culture that ever existed. Secondly, it became dominant in market economy. It's like every single one of them. It's not just like in America or in the UK, there's this weird kind of youth-obsessed tendency only to kind of the population boom at World War II.

No, this happened like everywhere that America, like, was able to, like, plant its footprint. You know, whether you're talking about Japan or India, whether you're talking about, you know, France, whether you're talking about, you know, the then, you know, East block, former East Block. It was, like, opening up. But you're talking about Finland.

But they talk about, you know, Latin America. That can't just be, like, some spontaneous homogenization. Okay, like, Pop culture doesn't just develop this kind of like homogenous, ideological, imperative, just by complete accidents, especially like pre-internet. That was laughable.

And the third thing you identified was that it became truly international in a way that didn't really make sense. You know, he's like, if you take stuff like the Beatles, or if you take stuff, you know, like some of these movies that, like, pop so much out of the production code, got done away with like the graduate

a lot of times of stuff wasn't even translated like people didn't even understand like what they were hearing because it was you know and it wasn't it's not like there was some program where you could upload subtitles to release a movie in India or China but nevertheless there was this constant

stream of mostly radio then but also TV and like the richer developing world that said like this is cool this is how you should be so people kind of like ate up the visual aspect and you know kind of in Congress with you know the the overly ideological kind of like radio media stuff there's all modeled on radio for Europe of course you know it's like this became this international kind of it became this uniform ideologically motivated international subculture without even being linguistically diverse you know,

um, and it was, it's not like, it's not like this was happening at gunpoint. You know, like, it's not like, it's not like American soldiers

were going into like Angola and like blowing away the guy ran like the local radio station and saying, you're going to listen to this, you're going to play this. You know, his ability to like insinuate itself

kind of along with, you know, the illusion of wealth. He's like, that's rare. in terms of trying to insinuate a social sensibility within people or try to get them

to develop sort of like a covetous sense of self and how they want their life to be. He's like, that's kind of the strength of capitalism. Capitalism is really, really, really good. And again, I don't use terms of capitalism to describe what he's describing, but we're talking about Hobbsbaum,

so I'm using his vernacular. In his view, he said, other ideologies, about state socialism, you know, whether you're talking about some kind of a, you know, some kind of anti-modernist, but at the same time, like, futurist fascism, nothing is as effective as this in like insinuating itself globally. Now there's a rebuttal of that, obviously it's like, well, you know, if you're dealing with like poor mention material. On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee Christmas nights at gravity.

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Yeah, that's true. But that's not really what he's talking about. He's saying, like, in absolute terms, you wouldn't think that this stuff would have, like, gone, what we'd consider it by the day's terms, like, viral. But it did. And in Hobbs'Oms' view, that's what keeps capitalism alive. Because it's not like, it's not like,

it's not like, there's, like, great outcomes for people. Like, yeah, if you're in America, you're basically rubberized. if you're rich, comparatively, your middle class or amazing middle class, you're basically rubberized against, like, true catastrophes. Now, there are people in America

who really struggle and they are not, but they're not the majority. Hobbson was talking more in terms of, like, planetary scale. Most people in the world, they're not really, there's nothing to offer you from, like, what he called the capitalist system. I mean, yeah, you can,

you know, shortages, as you may have known your lifetime have been largely mitigated, but that probably would happen anyway. That doesn't explain like why, in like, in brass tax terms, like why people in Africa, why people in Latin America, why people in Asia have just

like internalized this perspective. It doesn't explain why some like jackass in Liberia decided in 1995 he wants to be a gangster rapper. Like that doesn't make any sense in terms of kind of most precedented sociology. I think it makes a lot of sense

according to certain criteria that were not present before, that were about outside the scope. But that's kind of Hobbsom's point, okay? And there were not many true sociologists on the left. There was Seawright Mills, who wasn't really a leftist. I mean, he was viewed as like a progressive by like, you know, by like Eisenhower era standards. But he was more kind of like an economic sociologist who was like hostile to,

like what's considered a capitalist perspective. But Hasbawam was a genuine you know, again, it's, I, this is not an absolute signifier that encapsulates what he was, but he was like a Stalinist of its height.

And very few of those guys were like real sociologists, he was. Christopher Lash, ironically, came to a lot of the conclusions Hasbwan did in his final book. It was called Progress to True and Only Heaven. it dropped in like 1994, so over Lash died.

Now, of course, Lash had been some kind of peculiar Frito Marxist in his younger days, like the kind of guy who'd been on, oh, geez, I'm drawn. He'd been very much influenced by Marcosa in that school I thought. And then Lash gradually became, like, more and more kind of

conservative in his thought, like literally conservative. So I'm not sure if you really count. So Havon kind of stands not quite alone, but it was a very small fraternity of revolutionary Marxist Leninists who had, you know, like a sociologist bet that was both methodologically as well as intellectually rigorous in terms of, you know, in terms of output. So that's another reason why people should take him seriously if I haven't convinced the subs and other people who like what we do. Hasbond did say, though, with the big shortcoming of capitalism or the capitalist perspective is, he says that owing to this inherently conservative tendency, now again, we're talking about conservatism in the post-1789 sense. We're not talking about belief in tradition.

We're not talking about, you know, reverence for, for customs. We're not talking about people want to preserve old ways or preserve Harry. We're not talking about ideological conservatism, which, again, is a product of enlightenment liberalism, 100%. Osam says that the thing that these capitalist ideologues are really, really, really bad at is predicting the future. Not predicting the future like a gypsy with a crystal ball, but kind of, diagnosing the trajectory of politics and an economic phenomenon. You know, that's why he said that, like, he said that, like, people like, um, Fukiyama are laughable, you know, with their, like, theories of everything.

Like, oh, you know, they'll be, there'll be no more armed conflict because, you know, there'll be prosperity. And, you know, people will, will naturally, like, reject religion because they'll, they'll have all these, like, hedonistic outlets that no longer force them to supplement. And like, Hobbson's like, that's ridiculous, that's nonsense. You know, and he's like, basically, nobody has a worst track record. Speaking in the 1990s, he's like, nobody had the worst, nobody has a worst track record of the preceding 40 years. So basically, probably a post-war era, like the 90s, then, like, you know, the capitalists. You know, he's like, they're spectacularly bad at predicting what's going to happen.

And that's also why they got utterly blindsided by, like, the implosion of the Soviet Union. you know um Hobbs on reserve a particular contempt for Calvin Coolidge He dude Coolidge is kind of like a Reagan figure Which isn't I mean Reagan himself like Lionized Coolidge but I think Reagan is more like Eisenhower

Frankly But interestingly George Kenan had a similar contempt for Reagan He thought he was an idiot's I mean I got love for Kenan all day but I think he had some blind spots In his own right but what, what Hasbom said in one of his later books, Coolidge in 1928,

I think it was, it was like a holiday message, you know, it was on the Eve of the Great Depression. They had not, the kind of terror was in 29, obviously had not sit in yet, but, there was,

there was an ominous air about things. So Coolidge's message, like in holiday season of 1928, was, quote, the country he can regard the present with satisfaction and anticipate the future with optimism. That's fucking meaningless. That's like saying, like, things are great

because my McDonald's lunch today, you know, cheeseburgers taste good, and it's Friday, and, you know, I like pussy. Like, it's like a crazier version of what cool would you drop. Okay, I mean, that's, that's like almost Clintonian in its superficial, superficially moronic, you know,

uh, um, essence, you know, um, so like, that's why Havam says that, like, capitalism,

it's got a permanent alibi for its failures because it creates this climate, it basically is a dumbed-down climate of clout chasers and people thirsty and desperate for youth and the kind of pleasures that supposedly attend youth. And they're told that the experts, and you're always supposed to trust experts, you know,

like No Balls Walls says, we trust doctors. You're always supposed to trust the experts. Whether they're an economist, whether they're, you know, some Pentagon with this kid, abating myself with that phraseology, I realize, or whether they're, you know, some medical doctor, like Dr. Fauci. And the experts always say, you know, something in the same vein as what, Coolidge said there's just nothing but progress ahead there's nothing but prosperity ahead so oh when there's natural when there's natural hiccups so to speak you know in markets or when there's problems or when a combination

of malfeasance and and badly coded in force leads to something like the 2008 crisis where billions of dollars wiped out like oh the alibi of the capitalist and who in a in a in a public view is like oh this was an unforeseen crisis, almost like a terrorist attack. You know, but darn it, like, we got the gumption to get through it, and these things just can't be predicted. You know, it's a hazelam, that's nonsense. This is absolutely foreseeable. You know, like, granted, there's always something of, uh,

there's always something of a mystic's belief in augury to Marxist-Leninist. It's like dressed up as like, oh, no, we're just diagnosing, you know, through a scientific method, the world historical process, but they do, they are right when they say, like, no, history does not repeat itself, that's something moron say, but there are patterns to events, particularly

crises of, like, an economic or military nature, and this idea, like, oh, we're just being blindsided, because this can't be predicted. You know, like that, he's right about that, and that is the ongoing alibi of capitalism. Again, this is his phraseology, what he calls capitalism.

I think, I want to take part three and it's somewhat different direction and I think we're coming up in the hour so I'm going to cease if that's okay because if I start in on what I want to start in on it

we're just going to have to abrogate it and I don't want to do that. No problem at all. No problem at all. And you're getting ready for a trip and everything so yeah. Yeah, I don't want to keep you here forever. Yeah, do plugs. We'll get out of here. Yeah, no, my good buddy

I don't want to name check him because he's a very private person, but like my homie and my erstwell, like tech frog who maintains my website, it's backup and running. Thomas 7777.com, number 7-HOMA 7777.com. It's up to date. It's current. You can find the archives and everything I do. And like the alerts automatically kick on. Like when this gets uploaded, it'll automatically pop up.

On the many nights of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to the Christmas nights at gravity. This Christmas, enjoy your job. truly unique night out at the Gravity Bar. Savour festive bites from Big Fan Bell, expertly crafted seasonal cocktails and dance the night away with DJs from love tempo. Brett take infuse, amazing atmosphere,

incredible food and drink. My goodness, it's Christmas at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the Facts be Drinkaware, visit drinkaware.com. Air Grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade. the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together, we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. So it's current. I know it was down for a few days. I'm going to retool some stuff or rather my guy's gonna retool it. I know how to do that, but there's some things I want to change. I'm not, I can't do that until I get back from this trip. I'm going

to Portland tomorrow, tomorrow being Halloween and happy Halloween. I'll be back on November 7th. I'm gonna need a few days to recover, so realistically it's probably gonna be like November 10th before like I'm I'll be streaming and stuff from the road, but I

stuff's not going to get done other than that. So it's going to be about three weeks before a new pod episode is uploaded but speaking of the pod you can and I'm going to retool the website around mid-month of November so

it'll be a lot easier to use and navigate there'll be I want that to be like an archival library where you everybody can find everything for free of course and that's that but you can find the pod at Rio Thomas 7777 at subsection.com it's the mindfeiting

or podcast. We've also got a pretty active forum. There's also like, there's a combination like short and medium forum stuff. And that's the best way to keep up with me. Like hit me up there or hit me up on Tgram. I got a Tgram channel. I don't fuck with DMs on Twitter and stuff. Too many bad experiences and I cannot keep up with like half a dozen DM systems. but I'm on social media at capital R EAL underscore number seven HMAS 7777 on Tgram. I got a MERS shop. And yeah, man, if you plug like the MERS shop in the description, that would be tremendous.

I'd appreciate it very much, man. Absolutely. It's all set up and just copy and paste it over. Safe travels, man. Thank you. Yeah, thank you, buddy. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekingana show, Thomas 77. 7 is back in.

Do you think this will be the last Hobbsbom episode, or do you think there's another one in this? I mean, it's up to you because it's your platform. And we can go as long as you want on it. I think that, I think three-part series are a good, it's sort of, I think it's a good model to this kind of content. But I'll go as long as you want on whatever topic. I was basically going to conclude what I have to say on the subject today.

Let's do it that way and then it gives us a chance to start something new. Yeah, indeed. Yeah, no, as I said, before I went live. I don't feel right today. So I started repeating myself or whatever, please advise me of it. And we're hopping around a bit in terms of the timeline. But I think people have been okay with. following it. The

what's important to me especially in terms of at least what I the kind of real value I find on Hobbsbong obviously it's his 20th century historiography but especially World War I because it's so ill understood

and it's such a critical event you know like I this is something of a tangent like the other week I'm not going to name names because I don't want people to think I'm being mean or I'm not even trying to like

suggest something punitive but I've done this panel with a few guys and I was talking about how people especially in America but also basically like across anglophone countries and like their academic culture and stuff they have this idea

they reject historicism of the continental type but they fall back in this kind of like midwit idea of oh history repeats itself or alternatively they like a shoe that but then they claim that, you know, well, there's not really precedent to extrapolate, so you can't

make a search an XYZ. So, like, I was making the point that the 20th century, basically there's nothing you can glean from that moving forward, either in terms of the strategic landscape or power political development, and this guy's like, well, you can't say that. I'm like, actually, I can.

You tell me World War I's going to happen again. That never, ever happens. You know, like, that's the equivalent of, like, a meteor strike. you know, I mean, so, but that aside, Hobbsbom was interesting, especially the way he characterized the Great War. I mean, obviously, because he was at base, a doctorateer, Marxist, Leninist, he overstated material and economic causes,

but there is nuance there that I think warrants attention, you know, but first, I mean, a little bit of background in terms of like, what laid the foundation for his sort of breakdown of the Great War. Hasbon was very much, he very much proposed the theory of what's now called the general crisis. Okay. What the general crisis refers to is this odd period in the 19th century, whereby, on the one hand, there's this kind of running stability. in terms of power political activity

and interstate warring. You know, after Waterloo, after Waterloo, not much happened in Europe. I mean, a lot happened, but I mean, in terms of war and peace developments, you know, there was the Crimean War, which is very much restricted to the theater, to the primary battle space,

you know, which, you know, very much spared of the continent. And there's the Franco Prussian War, which really, that's kind of what started to knock France out of the game

as like a true, like, burgeoning superpower, in my opinion. But that also, I mean, that was kind of the most, that was like one of the greatest, like, Prussian victories of all time. But that also, I mean, that was kind of the first of Blitzkrieg in some ways, you know,

and there wasn't large-scale civilian attrition in it, You know, but other than that, I mean, some of the reasons, I think, like I mentioned before, so many European mercenaries, like, streamed into the United States. So, like, to take up arms for pay for, you know, the Union or the Confederacy, because there just wasn't, there wasn't a lot going on. You know, if you were a, if war fighting was your hustle, you know, either because that's just what you like to do, you know, you were an action junkie,

or, like, that's how you made a living, like, well, you kind of had to look abroad if you wanted defy your trade, you know. But there was a lot of social instability. And there was a lot of sociological, there was a lot of punctuated disturbances. You know, like in the social structure of the main European countries. And like this started really after the 30 years of war.

You know, Hugh Trevor Roper is another guy. he was very, very different than a Hobbes bomb, but he basically abided this as well. Okay, like basically, in the middle of the 17th century, there was this total breakdown in politics and social order and economics and everything else. And this culminated in, you know, the 30 years war.

You know, then there's the English Civil War. Then in France, what they call like the Fronde, which was basically like this running, civil unrest. You know, and in some cases, just like violent criminality that didn't even really have a political raison d'etre. It was just like guys kind of like clicking up

and like robbing, raping, and killing people under some like loose auspices of economic justice by violence. You know, um, the, uh, the Holy Roman Empire, which, uh, which was actually a really important

political structure. You know, I know that there's a lot of Anglophone historians. They kind of like highly declare like, it was neither holy, no Roman, nor an empire. It's like, okay, that's great. But it, the reason why, like, it took on that moniker was to suggest that, you know, this is a transfer of sovereignty to Europe Central, like, from what was, like, the just public on Romanum.

You know, I mean, it does track, okay? there was revolts against the Spanish crown in Portugal there was secessionist movements in Naples and Catalonia and there's also just like jumping off like at the same time you know it wasn't coincidental that something was happening you know and

when when the dust kind of settled you had this increasing centralization at government okay. Like we talked about last session there was this kind of like nationalism that kind of took rude. But it was like very much like an enlightenment phenomenon. Like again, we say like nationalism.

We're not talking about some return to sort of like tradition or or some kind of adivistic tribalism. We're saying that like kind of the court in these countries consolidated and it's like, okay, look you know, like within these sovereign parameters, like we are the only sovereign. We have the power to tax you, you, you and you.

you know, the only legitimate men under arms, the ones weeshard, you know, stuff like that, okay? And this kind of like central bureaucracy like developed to kind of prevent this chaos that have been happening. And this is like a 150 year cycle from like the end of like

the 30 years war and the peace was failure until like the start of the 19th century. You know, but throughout the 19th century despite these, this kind of basic stability in terms of power political activity there was this increasing tension because you

like a lot of these a lot of these like you know otherwise progressive states that it centralized you know despite that they were most of them were run by absolute monarchs or they were run by a court that

was essentially staffed by you know like an upper house of landed aristocrats okay and obviously clergy people still had a lot of clout, you know,

the Roman church couldn't assert itself in an absolute way over sovereign governments anymore, but it still had great power. So there's this weird disconnects. In the one hand, like structurally, you have the structure of the modern state,

like as we know it today, but it was populated basically by these aristocrats and clerical types and people who, who derive their mandate from sort of traditional modalities that were ceasing to exist. Okay. And when a Haasvon's big points and a lot of people don't understand this about Marxists,

Marxists don't look at aristocrats and the bourgeoisie is the same thing. They look at them as opposing classes, which they are. Okay. And the first revolution before the proletarian revolution can happen, like basically the bourgeoisie have to annihilate the aristocracy. And when that doesn't or can't happen, there's this kind of stagnation in, like, the Marxist this Latinist worldview. Like, nothing is progressing.

You know, there's not like innovation, government kind of, it has this like monopoly on power, but there's nothing dynamic about it. And this is critically important. I've heard people talk about, and especially because I understand that people develop that impression based on the rhetoric, as well as the experience historically of the Russian revolution, they view Bolsheviks as guys who like want to kill kings or view like them

as guys who just like want to burn down the churches because they view the church as the repressor. It's not the way they look at it. Yeah, they want to do those things. But their whole notion is that the bourgeoisie is a revolutionary element too. It's got to annihilate like the throne and altar

and like the European court as it's existed for millennia and it's now consolidated under the trappings of the modern state. And then, like, when the bourgeoisie is able to consolidate control of this modern means of production, you know, that can

be applied to, you know, basically resolving shortages and poverty. Like, that's, like, when the proletariat rises off and then, like, takes over those means. And that's, like, the final revolution. Then there's, like, no more class. There's no more caste. You know, and, like, life can

be, like, socially homogenized, like, in circumstances of plenty, and there's not material need anymore. and because there's not contradictions anymore and there's not material deprivation like there's not war anymore and like all the superstructural features that cause those things

you know like like racial problems and things like those are all like annihilated because they can no longer be exploited either deliberately by design or or just by you know or just you're just ongoing to intrinsic tensions that that that cause

hostility or the internal contradictions of of an non-perressive paradigm. Like, that's what they're talking about. Okay? So, Hobbs' view and Roper's view, albeit three different reasons,

and a lot of, like, Anglo historians, was that this phenomenon I'm talking about, it basically kind of, it created this, like, weird stagnation, and these tensions kept on, developed this sort of unsustainable momentum. And then by the time of the Great War, what it essentially happened was

you had this kind of like hyper-competitive capitalist paradigm between the major European powers but it was kind of inconsistent across national frontiers and uneven, okay?

So you had the Germans that were absolutely killing it and they were eclipsing the UK which had previously been you know kind of like the like the factory of Europe you know and and British products had been, like, flooding the planet in markets far and wide.

Like, that was over with. But the newly consolidated, like, German state, like, it was cash poor. On the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee, a visit filled with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse.

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Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say. online or in person. So together, we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash northwest.

You know, and then you had the French who, like I said, they'd been kind of like knocked off of their pedestal, you know, by the Franco-Prussian war and never really recovered, you know, frankly from like Waterloo and stuff. You know, so they were like realizing that like they were going to, like the future basically was them being like a junior partner kind of in this German dominated continent as Europe becomes a superpower.

Okay. And a hot-on view is like, look, what the great equalizer is is a military power. And he's right. And if you don't believe that, I mean, I'll really you this, okay? Like, at peak, I'm talking in the era of like

undeniable strategic parity, like after 1977. The Soviet Union at peak its GDP was like one-fifth of the United States. Okay. Its annual growth was like 1.2% or something that would be like viewed as pathetic by, you know, by

the Bundes Republic or by the United States. But they were probably like the strongest military power that's ever existed on this planet. okay so in a Hasbom's view like look if you're being

if you're if you're basically being murked like in the game of a great game of capitalist commerce and um you know they kind of zero some competition before European integration was a reality your trump card is essentially

that you can defeat your enemies on the battlefield you know and there was a certain confidence here because again you know the Crimean war resolved pretty rapidly okay um the Francoe Prussian war resolved pretty rapidly the war between the states here in America was a bloodbath

but that owed as peculiar conditions okay so going into World War I the combatant states like yeah I mean there was there's complex historical factors that conspired to make it happen but the major combatants figured that well you know this is going to resolve pretty rapidly you know

and um the British especially thought that and um you know I I this is a discussion for another series but I said during our World War I series that a whole big I think was

I mean here's the really sympathetic figure in the Great War. And that perfectly exemplifies what Oswald was talking about. The dynamic between like a Holveg, the consler and the Kaiser. You know,

Wilhelm was not a good man and he did not have good command aptitude, but even if he had there was like this bizarre kind of tango where you had, you had like, you know, the leader of government and a

Then you had literally the Kaiser, who was the king. Then you had these industrialists, and both Holbeg and the Kaiser, they had to organize, like, purchasing, you know, arms, munitions, figuring out some way to appropriate manufacturing means to sustain battlefield demands, but also compensating these private actors for, like, you know, their outlays and things. so it's like you got kind of like three bases of sovereignty that are basically at odds

and have competing interests but they're all profiting or at least you know surviving by virtue of this war enterprise you know and it leaves us conditions where like nobody's really in charge

and like Haddwell made that point too you know and that's why I put him kind of head and shoulders above most Marxists who just say like, oh, well, World War I want to happen because, you know, of overproduction. You know, and that's ridiculous. Like, World War I didn't happen because there was some conspiracy of capitalists.

Like, well, we got to kill off, you know, our workers because there's, you know, we can't employ them. I mean, well, you know, we don't, we don't have a destination for these overproduced goods, so we're just going to blow them up on the battlefield. Like, nobody thinks that way. And that's also not why wars happen. and if that was the case like if that was true like basically anytime there was a major recession

like the president would just like devise a war like that that's not all things happen you know like if if there was a huge financial crisis next year and America and the Chinese wouldn't be like let's like let's pretend to have a war and sink each other's navies like what would that accomplish

you know that's I mean I'm being obtuse deliberately but this is an important point because the refrain even a guy should know but it was like, well, war is about big business or it's about money. It's like, no, it's not man. Like, how is it about money? Like how... I mean, yeah,

people definitely find ways to profit from war, but you can profit from literally anything. You know, I mean, that's... that doesn't tell us anything. You know, but that's this is fundamentally important. And this not just the catastrophe

of the Great War and you know, the fact that it kind of deformed an entire generation and put an entire generation in the grave as well, but it these tensions and these uncertainties, this is what,

this is what facilitated the Bolshevik revolution, which very easily, by the way, could have prevailed Europe-wide. You know, I mean, it's, I'm the first to acknowledge, as any serious student in the 20th century is,

it's strange. that the literal heart of the of the communist international was Russia that's weird but people conveniently forget or they just don't know because they're subjected to bad

history you know I mean there was a communist revolution in Germany there was a communist revolution in Hungary there almost was in the UK you know this stuff was stopped by force of arms. It didn't just fizzle out or something. You know, but

this is the way to understand the 20th century and the degree to which, you know, the 20th century was basically a reaction to communism. I mean, they can't be overstated.

You know, in power political terms, I mean, like, obviously we're talking about human life at scale. in any epoch, there's an entire myriad of factors across a broad spectrum that go into that. But the kind of key takeaway is, you know, what Hasbond called the age of capitalism, like, facilitated this. And, like, that's, um, he actually, he wrote an essay that became a book called, the age of capital 1848

to 1875 and he makes the point the word capitalism it first entered like the academic lexicon in the 1860s you know from 1848 like after the

revolutions in Europe were were quashed in both Europe and America there was this kind of like massive economic boom okay and that's one of the things that meant that there wasn't another like 1848

like revolutionary sentiment because like there's a lot of wealth being produced you know but again there were these kinds of obsolete social structures that were sort of organizing people's lives nonetheless yet these societies were flooded with capital but it was

it wasn't it was very much like funnel into specific channels you know not by conspiracy of design or something but there just was not like a free like individual people did not have a lot of

purchasing power and it's created like weird disparities you know like there wasn't there's a lot of like if you're a if you're a neoliberal economic economist you'd look at this as like basic market and efficiencies. You know, this is why

like banking is so important to like the monitorist view. And then they're right about that. You know, the availability of capital and, you know, confidence in financial instruments, like that's the regulatory

mechanism that's essential. But beyond that, you basically need like capital flow, like where it's going to be most efficiently allocated in order to produce wealth and that that wasn't really happening despite the fact that you had you know you had kind of at the top and also kind of like unevenly distributed like sort of throughout the sociological spectrum you know you had some like some incredible innovations

that were like older and people's lives and there was um like government could simply do things that it couldn't before i mean like look at world war one like that's totally insane. Like the ability to mobilize like five million men, arm them, equip them, feed them, then like turn them loose to like assault your ops. Like, on the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee a visit filled with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse. Enjoy seven floors of interactive exhibitions and finish your visit with Brett taken views of Dublin City from the home of Guinness. Live entertainment, great memories and the gravity bar. My goodness is Christmas

at the Guinness Storehouse. Book now at ginnestorehouse.com. Get the facts. Be drinkaware. Visit drinkaware.com. Airgrid. Operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4.4. Northwest. That would be unthinkable, even in a poliotic era.

You know, and it's not just modern command and control. It was like transportation. It was, you know, it was more efficient fuel sources. It was like more efficient killing technology. It was all these things. but um the uh something else that's important to is

hobbom said and he was writing this in the 50s. He was the first world is I'd say like in the 50s. But this age of capital this was like the first, this was like the nascent earliest stage of globalization. Okay. Um,

because if you were a major capitalist power, you know, and again, I invoke an capitalist and within the terms howsvom does. I don't use kinds of terms. But, you know, you, the British Empire held equity basically at every continent.

You know, and America was not yet a superpower, but you'd find American goods basically all over the world, okay? And there wasn't a unified banking structure, but lending a

national frontiers at scale with governments guaranteeing financial instruments that started blowing up you know and that that would have been unthinkable before you know in a lot of countries it was literally illegal for national banks to you know to trade across national frontiers or to issue financial instruments in foreign markets but a lot of countries simply wouldn't deal in your currency. Like even if it was viewed as, you know, a desirable currency and speculators would invest in it. Oh, and

purchasing foreign currencies at this time was also largely illegal. It was quote-unquote currency speculation. It was like literally a crime, which is crazy, but that that was the norm. You know, but this but because of that,

like in the early stages of any economic system or any paradigm, not system, but like paradigm, There's going to be, like, really, really uneven growth, okay? And that's going to lead to certain disparities. I'm not talking, like, social justice disparities. I mean, like, between enterprises, a lot of capital is being created, but a lot is being wiped out. Like we just mentioned, across national frontiers, this kind of development is uneven.

But also, certain industries develop. a kind of outsized clout, okay? And not the arms industry per se, but the kind of terrestrial manufacturing enterprises that facilitate the arms industry,

they developed outsized power, like, as did again, you know, financial institutions. This wasn't some conspiracy, and it's not why World War when it happened, but it was a but it facilitated resorning

to military measures to remedy power political imbalances at scale, okay? It was a perfect storm at things. And again, that's really important, you know, and in my own, like,

manuscript, I try and emphasize this point. And, um, Hazwam, I don't, he's not like my primary authority on that, but I do cite him. Um, but yeah moving on um it's also to domestically whether you're talking about the United States the UK France or Germany

the way such things I'm about to mention were characterized kind of differed along the you know local custom and cultural differences in convention but kind of like the the lingua franca of government became you know this like there's like this resurgence that started like enlightenment shibbolists

so whether you were in Berlin, London, Washington, Paris, all you heard from government is oh see like this is like an age of unprecedented plenty you know it's the age of reason and science and progress but people were getting like ground into dust

you know and like working in a factory or a slaughterhouse that was like hell. You know, it's not... I tell a lot of guys in the right who, you know, they throw shade on stuff like Upton Sinclair's The Jungle. And I'm like, okay, I'm like, yeah,

I don't agree with those kinds of conclusions either, but what he describes, that's 100% accurate. You know, there'd be guys, there was no welfare state. You couldn't just get like a link card. So if you were out of work, like you weren't eating.

And basically, your ability to make a living depended on your ability to physically like perform. You know, and guys would die on the job. Like, there was like 10% like attrition and like a steel mill or like a slaughterhouse. You know, and God forbid you get injured or like you lose three fingers on your hand

and some machine, you know, the biggest surplus in any major city at this time was that of like able-bodied men who want to work. So did, um, did Hobbswam have anything to say about the move from agrarianism to basically employment, where you're providing for yourself with your own,

with your own hands? And then all of a sudden it seems in, in the span of a decade, people are moving to cities to get jobs. Yeah. He, uh, yeah, yeah,

he got a lot into that. I mean, the, the extrapolation. of the household being the center of production to people being forced to sell their labor

as some sort of factory worker like yeah that was tremendously disruptive and you know it also I mean Hauzebam was insightful in his sociological take down because unlike

a lot of people you know Shumperner's big critique of the Marxist paradigm and I'm going to bring this back I'm going somewhere with this was like, look, like, Marxists aren't really talking about class. Like, the job you do isn't your class.

You know, like, your class is what you're born into, and it's defined by how you relate to other people similarly born to this kind of, like, social stratum that isn't really mobile. You know, so in Schumpeter's view,

which is the traditional view, it doesn't matter what job you're doing or how much money you have. Like that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about a class. And class isn't something you can just like jump up from or down from, like within a generation. And Hasbom accepted

some of those premises. He's like, yeah, you know, one of the reasons why the working class exists is because the social capital that kind of facilitated no blestage as well as, you know, kind of the communitarian impulse

that, you know, stood in for the welfare state in antiquity and things he's like capitalism like rips all that apart and it makes every man like a stranger and it enshrines the war of all against all not only

as like an an implacable reality but as like a positive good almost so the only thing you have in common with like your neighbors figuratively and literally is that you're all being crushed like in these in this like

industrial labor environment. And, you know, you've got to stand together or all die. And that's, like, what the working class is. You know, it's not a class on, like, the traditional sense, or there's not some, like, basic affinity between, um, between peoples. Like, they're your comrades because you're, you're, like, in the same way you are, like, with the guys you're, like, unjustly locked in prison with. You know, it's circumstances that, like, drive you together.

so and that actually tracks with like what Mars was talking about in Das Kapathal like if when you talk about alienation he's not just talking about the process of whereby labor is not personal anymore you don't create

things you're not a producer you're just doing this like pointless process like over and over and over again that's dangerous and dirty and painful but it's alienation from your fellow man and even if you haven't to be married like you never see your wife she's stuck with some dangerous, dirty job, like you have, you know, at the end of the day, like,

maybe you, like, get to sleep in the same bed as her, and occasionally you collide in intimacy and have children. But he's like, that alienation touches the concerns every aspect of the workers' existence. It's not, it doesn't just, like, remove his labor from his own domain and creative power. it alienates him from what should be his community, it alienates him from his ethnos, it alienates him from his wife, it alienates him from, you know, he doesn't have neighbors anymore, you know, that this all tracks. And yeah, so he makes a lot out of that. On the many days of Christmas, the Guinness Storehouse brings to thee, a visit filled with festivity. Experience a story of Ireland's most iconic beer in a stunning Christmas setting at the Guinness Storehouse.

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whereby the vestige of aristocracy is able to hang on to power because people like bonded in peonage they are dependent upon like the Lord of the Manor and this is a deeply psychological process okay and it's enduring so in a Hasma view

okay this alienation that is a matter of life and death in a lot of cases it's not a matter of quality of life like it stands to kill you he's like really the only remedy these people have is like appeal to the church or to like appeal to

traditional social elements that are kind of like the guardians of the culture if you want to think about it that way so they appeal to aristocrats and stuff you know for justice and that's one of the things that keeps these guys like if not relevant like able to remain

like in situ you know that's why Haslow it keeps the revolution in stasis, there's no chance to have in a revolution. Yeah, exactly. And so guys, like a

hobbom, he said, this was the big problem during, like, the long crisis he talked about. Because there was all this technological innovation and this kind of future shock and disturbance. But political cultures were, like, frozen.

You know? And that was, I mean, that's the point of, like, any revolutionary Marxist in the 20th century, but Hasman especially, because I think that he had a particular emphasis as well as insight into sociological questions. He's like, we've got to educate people to break them of these things, of these tendencies. We've basically got to like break them with their short-term self-interest or their attachment to it because we've got to literally kill the aristocracy. We've got to allow the bourgeoisie to conquer everything. We've got to let them

consolidate. We've got to let them create conditions of plenty before we kill them, figuratively and literally. You know, it's a very brutal view of historical processes but within the bounded rationality of Marxist-Leninism

that tracks. You know, and there is like a kernel of truth to it, not in terms of its ethical conclusions, but I mean, like today this is a bit of of a tangent, but I'm always making the point to guys, this has died

somewhat, but it won't die completely. This is a favor or frame of dissident people as well, there's going to be a massive financial collapse of the Great Depression. That's never going to happen again. Okay? Because it can't

happen in the state of information awareness, like to the second information awareness. That kind of stuff only happens along to uncertainties. There's not uncertainties anymore. Like that doesn't mean that dollar can't like bottom out. But even if it did, that doesn't mean like you're not going to be able to buy food. Okay. Now, there could absolutely be shortages.

I don't believe in climate change in the sense of these crazy people who think, who weren't to stand in like apocalypse cult for them. But I'm certain that there's all kinds of environmental factors that just only to God's will or the nuances of of this planet, I could easily see famine is coming back. I mean, you know, I mean,

if it suddenly became impossible to grow certain kinds of crops, that would fool bar everything. I mean, so I absolutely do not say like crises can't happen, but this idea that, you know, like, owing to miscalculation or only like a gap

in, you know, information awareness you know of hours or days like you know like billions of dollars is going to be like wiped out overnight in the stock market that would never happen again that's retarded you know

um and guys like how do I'm predicted that you said stuff's going to largely be rubberized moving forward there's not going to be like food shortages you know there's not going to it's going to be very easy to produce things that today him talking in like 1950s are hard

to produce. You know, you're going to, like, a lot of these problems are going to go away. You know, and that happened. You know, and that's one of the reasons why this is, I mean, this is probably the scope, but one of the ways you can tell, like,

our government is, like, full of, like, crackheads and insane people is because if they didn't overreach and remotely smart, they could basically hold on to power indefinitely, because this isn't the 1920s, because people aren't going hungry, because there's not a military draft,

where you're expected to sacrifice your son in a meat grinder. There's not a Soviet Union, whereby, you know, at any time, basically, you know, some enemy society that's, like, mobilized at massive scale could decide to, like, sue for war to remedy the kind of uneven

power paradigm. you know like so it's you can tell these people are insane because like they're basically like burning the house down when there's no reason to do that but um you know that

that agree to which uh that that's also why too I mean like I said I I it's it's dumb for people to claim that people like Mrs. Harris are Marxists anyway but it's Marxism isn't just Marxism isn't wokeism.

It's not it's not it's not liberalism It's a very discreet claim and series of claims about historical processes. And in the short term, Marxists absolutely want

capitalists to succeed. They don't want it to fail. They want it to fully succeed. They want it to conquer everything and then they want to kill the people at the helms of the apparatus. Like, that's the whole point. You know, what what's strange about how it developed

in terms of actual praxis is that it did again like the quite literally like the heart of the of the Bolshevik revolution in the real world was a place that really had no like industrial working class

you know it was this like basically backwards monarchy that ruled over this this is this massive territory. You know, like the Russian Empire had more in common with the Ottomans than it did with Europe. Okay?

I'm not saying, like, racially or whatever, like I'm not taking a position on that, so I don't know people get mad. But in terms of the way it was structured and in terms of it being like an anachronism in the 20th century when it finally got brought down, it's really, really

strange that this is where the Bolshock revolution was consolidated and truly succeeded. You know, that's one of the reasons why when I talk a lot to these guys not Jackson Hinkle himself

I don't know him but I know guys in his orbit and guys who ascribed to that kind of worldview so like there are a lot of their like rebuttals that people like me are like well you can't extrapolate a lot from the Soviet Union it's like well I can but even if I accept that partial it well I can

extrapolate a lot even by your own criteria from East Germany okay you know and it's a little you go. Okay, you tell me, like, East of Germany wasn't an industrial state. Like, it, I mean, if you want to perfectly realize, like, Marislandis State, it was the DDR. I mean, that, that

can't be argued. I mean, I suppose, like, there, I suppose their, like, rebuttal of that would be, like, well, that was an artificial state that emerged out of, like, military exigencies, and, you know, the fact that it was beleaguered and threatened, you know,

owing the conditions imposed by capitalists, like, is, like, is, somehow like takes it off the table as as a pure example of praxis. But be as it may, you know, the, to bring it back. And again, I forget me if I'm ramblings.

I don't feel good. But, um, the, uh, the degree of which, again, like, Merck, actual Marxists viewed these things as necessary processes, like, can't be denied. Like, Marxist would not be in the street saying, like, We need Acme widget company to hire more women because it's bad not to.

And they wouldn't be saying, like, we need to tax these people more. Like, none of that would be, like, in their horizon. They'd be like, we want Acme widget company to become, like, as massive as possible. We want it to insinuate itself into everything. We want it to be able to produce everything we need, you know, almost like magic. And then we want to kill the people who own it. and we want to take it, and we want to make it the public domain of the workers. That's what they want, or wanted.

Like I said, I like guys like Jackson Henkel. I think they're playing an important role right now, if you're any kind of dissident or any kind of actual resistance actor. The real interesting, the interesting thing about that is, it's the way you know that these people who call themselves Marxists or call themselves, communists nowadays aren't because they would want Elon to succeed and take over and become you know like my friend Matt says his own Hanseatic League they'd want him to do that so then they could take it over by force but they they should all over him and oh you know yeah well the point

that the degree to which these people today are just like goofy envy crats who were like it's there's just like people are like that guy's a big shot, I don't like him, it's like that basic, you know, and it's like it doesn't, and like you can only that too is a symptom of prosperity as well, because even you read, Ernst Younger

was a fascinating guy in all kinds of ways but he lived through this stuff and you know, he kind of, um, he was kind of a strancerist man, you know, like he was very much a socialist. And if you read something like the glass bees, the character of

Zaporone. Like, he's obviously, like, kind of a matchup of, like, Howard Hughes and, and Andrew Carnegie and, um, and, like, Walt Disney. But, uh, you know, and, like, um, that guys like Zaporone are a real type. But, you know, guys like younger thought these guys were historical giants. They're like, these guys are going to change the world. They're going to change everything. And they're playing an essential role in this historical process.

You know, um, that's, um, it's not. I mean, I'm as anti-communist as it's possible to be. I don't think that should be in dispute. But communists, they're not dummies, or they weren't dummies. We're just like, I don't like that guy because he has more stuff than me. It has nothing to do with that. You know, like, it's not just, like, dumb, lumping bullshit or, like, guys who think, like, gangster rappers or something. Like, that's not, like, that's fucking retarded.

you know and um this uh these these internet guys who have never read a book in their life like calling people moxas it's like goofy as fuck but um but no I think um

you know and today uh I realize I'm going kind of set of scope don't forgive me for that if it's um boring people but guys like Emmanuel Wallerstein um guys who

uh these kinds of post Marxist types who do like talk about you know social justice within globalism I mean yeah obviously I don't like have common cause with those guys but they're really the only

like intelligent aspect of the left and I think those guys are making a comeback because everybody hates the fucking regime and like literally everybody hates liberals like everybody fucking hates liberals and things they're like awful pieces of shit you know um that's why like I said like people

I mean people throw shit on me all the time I don't care like I'm not not here to make friends and I'm used to it. But, you know, they get mad at me, whether it's because, you know, I got respect for Muslims and view them as, like, an essential part of the new resistance,

or they get mad at me for, like, retweeting, like, Jackson and Hinkle or something. But it's, like, they don't understand, part of bringing down the regime and discrediting it is, like, pointing out, not just how morally bankrupt it is, but how, like, staggering or, like, ignorant it is,

and its accolades are, you know, and, um, if there's, if there's a serious left wing with revolutionary ambitions, that's not a bunch of degenerate natural slaves, like, that's, that's a good thing, man, like, how's that bad? You know, like, you've got, people can't, like, take their, like,

personal feelings out of stuff. It's pathetic. It's, like, talking to a bunch, like, is, like, talking to a much of little kids, or, like, modeling old women or something, but the, um, but that's, um, You know, and that's also why, you know, again, the, like I suddenly started out, like, that dude, I'm not going to name, you know, acting like I was dropping cap when I was saying, like, you know, the, it's asinine to, you know, to arrange force structure or to conceptualize grand strategy in like 20th century terms. you know, like the

like 20th century wars can never happen again. That's never going to happen again. You know, it's not going to happen again in a thousand years. You know, like that and the the changing like everything these days is changing.

Like I, you know, like I made the point before about like just today I was talking to some of the fellas about like public education is dying and nobody believes in anymore. So is law enforcement. Like a couple of months back, like I see in Chicago now, like I said, even, you know, like, policing is going to be privatized.

It's, you know, in the south, like, I mean, I'm sure you see this. You know how, like, they're still trying to fight the war on drugs? Like, it's 1982 or something. And, like, there was this ridiculous press conference, and they, like, the Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. They held this, like, press conference. It was them, Homeland Security, ATS. FBI.

There was this whole mass investigation to literally bust these two outlawed bikers, like, slinging meth. And they're like, we're taking drugs off the street. And the comments were like, you people are idiots. You know, they're like, what do you think this is? You know, it's like, there

wasn't like a single positive comment man. And it's like, this is like a time war. It's like, what the fuck are these people doing? You know, like nobody believes in that garbage anymore. Now you got Homeland Security. like shaking down like trailer park meth heads really you know like that's like that's pathetic man

you know this whole apparatus the people sustaining it um there these like increasingly aged parasites who can't like adapt to the 21st century you know and that's one of the things that swept Trump into power it's the kind of stuff of Habsbaum and

frankly a lot of the Marxists we're talking about like like they the way they would have viewed Trump Trump is like, you know, they wouldn't have viewed him as some like arch reactionary. They would have been like, well, this guy is basically a con man, but he's saying he's going to like sweep away these obsolescent aspects of state that people like don't think serves their interests anymore.

And that's why a lot of people voted for Trump. It's not, I mean, yeah, there's like people who just like love Trump. There's people who, you know, like, who would have voted for RFK Jr. Who are just like protest voters. but like your average man or lady like who's not particularly politically sophisticated nor incline like they voted for Trump because

their instincts are basically sound and they're like what the hell's going on here? Like we they'll put together that this regime they live under is like this 20th century obsolete structure they don't think about it in those terms but they realize like this is like a zombie regime like it doesn't make sense anymore like why you know

like it's it's um and then you know it's uh it's really interesting to see this develop in real time man you know and that's why um one of the things like part of my vetting process with people who i kind of take on his allies um i mean that's a complicated process i can't really break it down into like criteria but my thing that's essential is like if like we do not want reactionaries We do not want people who think the good old days were dope or that we need to like turn back time or that or people who think like NSEG is

like making things like where we take over the government and can like manage its priorities. Like people like that or not with the program. And I mean not only is that like not at all what we're about but that's that's got nothing to do with

the trajectory of history and stuff like that. I don't mean to be I don't mean to like abrogate this, but I really don't feel good. So if we could like, if we could wrap it up, that'd be great. And if you want to, if you want to do another episode, because this wasn't up to snuff, we can absolutely do that. No, I, I appreciated the conversation at the ending because I think that's a conversation that people on the right need to hear.

That, you know, I think there's too much of a jump towards capitalism solves everything, you know, and I've been reading, some of lists letters lately and it's really opening up my eyes to just how damaging the especially the overseas

the globalism just what it does to you know the Volk and the Met Oh yeah what's also why it's crazy these people think they hate Muslims

for no reason because some like Zionist on TV told them to or because they think that because they think that like someone shitbag immigrants who did something to do them as like Islam. It's like man, you want to know, like Darla Islam's been getting crushed man by globalism for decades. I mean like they're on the front lines

of this shit. Like what's happening to them is as bad as what was done to Europe. Like you think that's cool. Like these guys, your ops because they're like fighting back against that shit. It's like get the fuck out of here. I mean, people actually think that way are my ops, you know, like it's yeah, yeah.

But it's also too, like they, it's part of internalizing like enemy conceptual vocabulary like people who they just like mirror like they use terms like racist or like they think like

oh I'm a capitalist because that's who my ops like say I am and so you define yourself or like somebody like Mrs. Harris or Joe Biden says or like what some like idiot Berkeley professor says like I I mean how basic are you

you know I don't use those kind of terms because again we're talking about people like Hossbaum, I kind of have to use a shorthand. You know, it's like, but I don't, there's not, um, there's not really, I'm not like a Kaczynski guy. I know like a lot of,

like, I know a lot of like dissident type dude really like head K. I mean, there's nothing wrong with like being into him. Oh, I've, I've studied him extensively. I've read it extensively. Yeah, but what you call it industrial society, that's a lot more accurate. You know, like, um, and post-industrials.

People think that that book, people think that book is like, I have a friend who says, oh, you can take an Al Gore book and hold it right up next to it, and it's the same exact thing. It's like, no, he's writing about the human condition. He's writing about what the industrial revolution did to the human condition. I read his whole-al-Gor. No, that's fucking retarded. Well, I mean, these guys are just, like, say things.

Like, I guarantee these guys never read a book, except maybe like some fucking airport paperback. But I, um, no, I remember when the manifesto dropped in 95 or 96, I think it was in, I think it was like late summer 95, well,

like when it ran in the papers. Late summer, late summer 95, yeah. Yeah, when I ran the papers, like, I made sure, like I,

I read it, you know, and it was, um, it was, it was insightful stuff. I mean, he's got some blind spots,

like, especially a lot of, like, a lot of, like, guys don't really really grasp, like, politics. But the stuff he, when he was talking about technological

development and the impact on production and labor, and, like, how man, like, individually and collectively interfaces with that, that was pretty insightful. And, like I said, the term industrial society, that that's a lot more meaningful than capitalism.

You know, and it's, um, and obviously, too, like, a term inherently reduction is, like, like, the capitalist is just everything he does, it's just like stack up capital and like assets. Like it's not, it's not the way people think. Like even some guy in Wall Street who's like, you know, kind of a stereotypical wall street

or wall street hustler, it's not like the way he thinks. Like he's, you know, he, and at base, the reason he like, the reason the guy like that his world is defined by money is because that's like power activity in his world. And that's like a way, that's a way he can like engage in power

activity congruous with like his discreet capabilities and like psychology. It's not because like It's not because, like, money is, like, this ending itself to everybody, like, in the capitalist system. So, I mean, that's, these things are important. But, yeah, like, again, man, like I said, sorry if this wasn't up the par, but I, this, it's been, I'm not trying to be a murder, but just because, like, I do have responsibility to people. I think this week has not been great in terms of my whole. I think people, I think people like this episode more than you think.

Okay, that makes me happy. Do, um, do plugs real quick. Yeah, man. As always, I try and direct people to my website. It's Thomas 777.com. It's number 7. H-O-M-E-S-777.com. I'm going to tweak that some, man.

I was going to try and get on top of it this week. But it's dope. The kid who put it together, he's great. And anytime I drop anything new, it pops up there on, like, the feed. So that's, like, a good way to, like, keep up with stuff, if you like, the stuff I do. I'm on social media at Capital R-E-A-L underscore number 7

H-M-A-S-7777 The best place to find me is Substack. That's where my pod is and stuff. It's Real Thomas 7777 at Substack.com and yeah, in the description

if you could include some Mersh links too. I got a big, like, a t-shirt and clothes and Mersh guy. And that's actually been selling pretty well, which makes me very happy. But, yeah, that's what I've got. I'll take care of that for you. All right, thank you.

Appreciate it. Yeah, likewise, man.