The Pete Quiñones Show - The Work of Ernst Nolte Complete - w/ Thomas777

Episode Date: August 5, 2025

3 Hours and 45 MinutesPG-13Thomas777 is a revisionist historian and a fiction writer.Thomas joined Pete to do a short series on the work of historian and philosopher Ernst Nolte. The Work of Ernst Nolte - Pt. 1 - Addressing the Crisis - w/ Thomas777The Work of Ernst Nolte - Pt. 2 - The Sonderweg Debate - w/ Thomas777The Work of Ernst Nolte - Pt. 3 - Bolshevism - w/ Thomas777The Work of Ernst Nolte - Pt. 4 - Zionism - w/ Thomas777Thomas' SubstackThomas777 MerchandiseThomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 1"Thomas' Book "Steelstorm Pt. 2"Thomas on TwitterThomas' CashApp - $7homas777Pete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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leon and terramar now with flexible pcp finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro search cupra and discover our latest offers cupra design that moves finance provided by way of higher purchase agreement from vows wagon financial services arland limited subject to lending criteria. Terms and conditions apply. Volkswagen Financial Services Ireland Limited. Trading as Cooper Financial Services is regulated by the Central Bank of Ireland. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back.

We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 13th. 30th of November. Little more to value. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pete Cagnonez show.

Thomas, it feels like we haven't talked in like four or five weeks or like a month or so. How are you doing? I'm doing well. Yeah, it's been a minute, even for me. I realize, I realize my content workflow isn't what yours or J. Burdens or some of the fellas is. Like, I probably, I probably look,

that probably makes me a little bit of, special ed kid or something. In my defense, I, you know, even when my health was better, I tend to favor highly conceptual topics.

And that kind of requires deep dives, like, on my end, to prepare that kind of stuff. But, you know, I remain impressed by the fact that you guys manage to be able to bang out the content you do with, the volume you do, and it's always high quality.

but um yeah i i'm gonna drop a sit wrap on my sub stack but yeah since i've been back from Arkansas like i haven't done shit like i haven't answered people's text or emails this was supposed to my big week to catch up on some

long form stuff like like none that was getting done like i'm sorry for that um i have not been feeling well but um today you suggested and i and i and i um i um i i um i agree a series where at least, I'd like you over three episodes, but at least two on the subject of Ernst Nobility, not just his thought and kind of his particular school of revisionism, but

what he represents, you know, he was a student of Heidegger, and he became very close to the Heidegger family, and that's important. It's important not just what Heidegger in context, and I generally agree with people, including Leo Strauss, interestingly, who I don't have nice things to say about in terms of his ethics. But he did have insight into the Western intellectual tradition. Heidegger was kind of the last continental philosopher, I think, and Knowlty was very much the error to that tradition, you know, that began with people. like Meister Eckert and continued with Ozzie Hagel and Schopenhauer and Nietzsche and that that alone renders him a significant personage but it's also people don't really understand what revisionism is it's not just a matter of taking narratives that have been mythologized by ideologically committed people and institutions that have been able to utilize a bully pulpit, you know, to kind of force those perspectives on, you know, on, um, on kind of the historical canvas generally. But it's also

why these controversies came about owed to a certain crisis in, um, in a, in a, in the Western concept the self. I don't just mean ontologically, you know, in terms of, you know, questions people pose themselves separately and collectively, like, who are we?

Like, what is our culture, you know, like, what, do we believe in God? I mean, those things are really important, but I mean, the collision with modernity and Magnum Masega was a collision, of Western man and the catatrophies that ensued from this that can't be overstated, okay? And Nolte, his brand of revisionism is very much grounded in that, describing that process.

And identifying the 20th century and, you know, the kind of the intellectual paradigms that were emergent in the 20th century. and the kind of great ideologies that gave rise to the Second World War and beyond. Those are derivative of this process. And the reason why people develop a sort of blindness about this is twofold, in my opinion. Part of it is, obviously, there's a dominant narrative about the Second World War that the current regime is a very, it's got a very strong interest in sustaining. Not just because it derives its moral legitimacy from this narrative, but in ontological terms, the way the world is structured,

morally, politically, just in absolute conceptual terms, you know, derives from this narrative. But beyond that, there's an inability particularly in I think Anglophone intellectual traditions to really understand continental philosophy.

Like even when the variable is being described within that tradition, you know, touching concern um, anglophone cultures as much as they do, you know, Germanic or francophone ones, there's a,

there's an inability to really sort of approach those things on the correct terms. Like even if, I'm not even talking about accepting the the postualists they're in. I'm saying that there's an entirely different conceptual vocabulary

for approaching these things. And it's not just because, you know, oh, the, you know, the English and the Scots are pragmatic. That's not, that's not what it is. I mean, that's like a shorthand for kind of university types who teach history of philosophy, your history of

science courses, that we're talking about something both more opaque and more kind of deliberate deliberately maintained. But really when old he talks about revisionism

he's talking about what exactly happened in the 20th century. And he's talking about what exactly national socialism and fascism represented contra capitalism and communism you know and this was not I mean anybody who's

educated in the subject you know knows that national socialism had nothing to do with nationalism whatever that means they got thinking was dead anyway by you know by by by the turn of the 20th century you know it wasn't just it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't it's a matter you know quote-unquoteing people because that that doesn't make any sense you know I mean even even if one accepts kind of court history claims that

for no particular reason this Habsburg-Austria in the former Hitler just decided he didn't like Jewish people for some social reason. You know, that wouldn't people wouldn't respond to some man's like petty personal biases. Like why would they?

That's not the way these work. Okay? And finally understanding how the kind of dehumanization, the process of dehumanization at scale or by

human lives the horror of human lives to the you know at the level of millions being ceremonies extinguished like ceased to cease to be impactful

you know like why that happened and why that was inevitable and how those a mirror of what preceded it in the case of the Third Reich. And as the war situation deteriorated, the onset of the categorical extermination of people who were identified as standard bearers of the enemy idea.

Okay, these are the concerns that Ernst and only has. So when we talk about revisionism, we're not talking about arguing over gas chambers and whether they existed and things like that. Because you've already lost a proverbial plot if you're doing that. Like, yes, there's a lot of, there's a lot of perjured testimony relating to the instrumentalities of execution and things. Yes, there's a lot of hyperbole that stands in for, you know, actual documented events.

And that kind of thing should be rebutted, but it's not what we're talking about. Okay, and you're not in the game of your own notion is basically, you know, I accept court history, but you know, this is wrong because this many people couldn't have been killed. Like, that's now we're talking about. And if you're counting casualty lists or you're aggregating estimates of countervalue attrition as some sort of like atrocity contest, you know, that, I mean, that's, that's incredibly perverse, but it's also not, you're missing the point, you know. So I know people will be like, probably to them, they're like, well, how's an old hero of vision is?

He doesn't do what Ernst Undel did or does and just claim none of this happened. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive. By design. They move you. Even before you drive. The new Cooper plug-in hybrid range for Mentor, Leon, and Teramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2,000 euro.

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Liddle, more to value. Zendl's not a real revisionist. There was some kind of troll, some sort of pre-internet troll. And don't get me wrong, like, I, there's a place for that. Like, Tom Metzger was, was in some ways one of those two.

But that's not, that's not real. history and i realize i'm digressing but um fred loiter um is a guy you should look into if you're concerned with instrumentalities and and kind of a direct evidentiary rebuttal of some of the claims we're talking about i mean loiter's got um something of a tragic background um owing to uh the fact that kind of like alex jones today loyctor was very much singled out for destruction by the regime when his, when he developed a high profile, which he did not cultivate at all. But that's, um, that's kind of outside the scope we're talking about.

Robert Farrison is another one. If then I guarantee you in the comments section or whatever, people are going to say that, like, I'm not, I'm not giving a fair shake or whatever to, to what they, the people I consider to be kind of like, you know, the authors and writers who are constantly revisionist can. getting into what

are a subject for the day. A lot is made of Heidegger's purported affinity for national socialism and even people who are something like the Heidegger, they seem to us understand that.

The claim is, well, Heidegger was attracted to Nazism, you know, because he was a German patriot. And then when he realized that these were horrible, people he retreated from that or they claim that um you know he he coveted directorship of fryberry university and this is a simply a career decision or something like none of that even comes close to the truth of the of the situation heidegger was concerned first last and always with the crisis of western civilization

okay and this in his opinion had been underway at least since the 30 years war and probably white well before in terms of the kind of cultural mind um my dear's notion is that

the function of culture what culture is the culture relates directly to the question of being um this to translate exactly what he means by being is difficult. It's one part Logos. It's one part Kualia. It's one part

consciousness. It's one part sentience. But the way to understand it kind of short hand... What's Kuala? Qualia is basically what people who study consciousness. It's what they define is like that intangible

factor that like makes humans human. It goes to something beyond self-awareness but that it's like ill-defined in in, in, in, in, quantitative terms, but it's basically that combination of, you know, the ability to reason abstractly, self-awareness, and the ability to, like, act intentionally like therein, that makes up, like, the human consciousness. It's distinguished even from the most intelligent animals, okay? It's a neuroscience term, I believe.

That's its original kind of provenance. But, you know, in fundamental sense. senses, being is always kind of this question that's ever present, okay? You're thrust into the world, you know, as a baby, and basically the process of your mind developing is the process by which, you know, you come to understand being, you know, and even like, even the most dull-witted human being, there's times at which, you know, he's he's metaphorically speaking startled by the strangeness of his his existence in the world okay that's even the most primitive societies have some notion of god okay even if it's just some idolatrous mock-up of a bull or something because you know we slaughter the bulls and from there you know we can eat and then we can survive so that is god okay um so being to heidegger and to traditionally aryan man or Indo-European, if you prefer the kind of neologism,

was always an open-ended question. You know, it always, it always, it's, the vantage point of it is, always involves man kind of staring into a conceptual abyss, okay? Um, even that's not, that doesn't mean it's intrinsically sinister, but it's existentially disturbing because it's unknown. Now, in Heidegger's view, man comes to live historically

because this is how the question of being is answered, or at least this is a way that it's reconciled with human existence. Moment to moment, man experiences time. You know, time is, time basically governs in both prosaic and profound turns, like everything man does. In an individual capacity, as well as in a, in a collective one. Okay. And moment to moment, man is forced to make decisions.

And what Brack gets all those decisions is time and does death. Man's always confronting his own, just oblivion generally, as well as his own. death. Okay. Now, what mitigates the terror of that, but what also allows man to kind of conceptualize what being is in both his day-to-day existence, as well as in transcendental terms, is that looking at one's existence backwards from this very moment now, there's an infinite number of aggregate decisions that led to this point, okay, rendered by my forebears, rendered by peoples who I've literally inherited,

you know, everything from the way I speak, to my folkways, you know, to like my biological aspects. There's this chain of existence, literally stretching backwards, to the very moment at which my ancestors became a human, that is essentially, again, an aggregate of endless decisions rendered that constitute decisions within that temporal bracketing. And the process by which, you know, questions are posed second to second, moment to moment, hour to hour, year to year, decade to decade, epoch to epoch, and as we come to understand,

these things in aggregate and as an aggregate process a dialectical phenomenon comes into conceptual view and that's

what it is really to be it doesn't resolve obviously what it is but it places it in a context that is at least rational within its bound in temporal terms

and that mitigates the terror of just, you know, living in a world of the absolutely unknown, in which all beings and objects and phenomenon are just mysterious and threatening and you know,

totally unknowable according to the senses and in the human mind. Now, That's a basically Aristotelian view, okay? I don't want to go off on how exactly that is, because then we'll be here for weeks. But that understanding of a dialectical process and the temporal bracketing of that process is basically Aristotelian. Contra was essentially a Platonist view, and ultimately what became the Christian view,

which is that being is this kind of presence, this transcendental presence, okay? And you come to know that presence through a combination of, you know, pious commitment to knowing it, and through divine grace, both of which are totally outside of temporal consideration, okay? Now, it's not for me to argue, nor did Heidegger suggest that there's not pre-slee-type men or literal profits who can apprehend this and, you know, come to know God in this way, that there's no reason to believe that that is not possible, okay? But in the terms and context we're talking about, the way in which cultures develop around the principle, that I described, specifically the way the West developed, it basically repudiated,

it was basically a self-reputating postulate. You know, like as the scientific perspective and as the, and as scientism, as what King Smith called it, and as, you know, the kind of conceptual biases of rationalism

crowded out all other ways of knowing, you know, it's like, okay, well, we came to understand the world, is just, you know, being populated by various beings that we can empirically interpret and identify. And, like, within that paradigm, where is God? You know, you can't identify God in those terms. Not because there's not, you know, indicators of God within the, you know, the physical world or anything like that. But you're, it's a totally, conceptually, it's a totally different vocabulary.

Okay. So when you remove man from historical time, and then you remove him out of these practices that at one time allowed him to apprehend being as a divine presence, you're basically throwing him into chaos, okay? that creates conditions whereby every decision he's rendering precedes ex-neelope, okay? This leads to all kinds of pathologies. You know, it leads to people, you know, it leads to social pathologies, you know, in banal terms, you know, because social capital breaks down.

it leads to the deterioration of authority because why why would people conceptualize authority is deriving from anything other than convenience or power, or power but most importantly what it does is it forces people

to organize themselves according to what is novel and what can allow them to recapture temporal boundaries and that's basically that which is technological

okay and this leads to uniquely insidious outcomes okay one of which was communism which aside from yes within

Marxism there's absolutely ethno-sectarian prejudices therein like you know all throughout it. But in absolute terms, like where the rubber meets the road as praxis,

what Marxist-Leninism dictated was basically that, you know, being is simply leader. You know, it's this process of work and of working, you know, by which man can shield himself from the elements and feed himself and, you know, avoid pain. as much as, you know, is, can be reasonably, as much as within the realm of reasonable expectation, you know, until, like, eventually he dies.

And that's it. You know, and, um, there's an internal logic to that, that is pretty remarkably consistent. I advise people read Das Kapital, because I made the point of people, like, Marxism, Marxism is nonsense, but it's actually very well thought out. nonsense the rebuttal of that as well you know it's completely self-referencing but I mean that that's the shortcoming of every of every modern ideology like capital I like theology you know in the proper sense because by that by categorically by definition its reference points are our beings are

quantifiable objects so there's really it's it's you're talking about the evalation of metaphysics okay um the kind of the kind of mirror of communism was capitalism now there's there's a problematic term i know people will say well capitalism is just a current coined a term that coined you catch them in the corner of your eye distinctive by design they move you even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range. For Mentor, Leon and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2000 euro.

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28th to 30th of November. Little more to value You know, by Marxists themselves And it appears to stuff like Comedy's Manifesto, that's true, but there is It's short hand for the technological perspective, okay? That perspective is basically

That material progress Is basically Potentially Infinite You know The world, it's kind of a perversion of the anthropic principle it's that oh well you know man can perceive how to exploit all these objects in the world around him and even his own body to maximum plenty you know to maximum pleasure to basically infinite wealth um and that's that's basically the key to being okay is this where where would where would transhumanism be on that scale it's an extreme manifestation of the latter what I just described.

And key to transhumanism, it's so, it's intrinsic to it, so it's not something that's emphasized, I believe, because it's proponents, just take it for granted. This idea that, oh, well, there's, you know, as, as we advance, we're going to resolve

all manner of shortage, because we'll basically be able to just kind of, like, create, like, matter from nothing. Like, it's, um, it seems like a science fiction concept, although less so. as time goes on you know in movies like that movie you know the movie district nine

have you ever seen it yeah definitely okay well you know how like the alien technology it's basically this fluid but uh it's like a smart nanotech fluid so if like you add it to a human body it's gonna try and like reconstitute

according to what it knows about what has been prognome biology so it turns it going to an alien if you like apply it to like a fuel source or like it's sinew it into a fuel source. You know, it's going to try and, like, purge the impurities, you know, to make it, like, most, like, combustible or whatever. That's, I've noticed in transhumanism when people say, like, oh, but what about sustainability or what about this, what about that? They basically

always fall back and, like, well, this is just going to be resolved, you know, by, you know, by, um, you know, by something that can just sort of, like, replicate whatever is needed, you know? Um, And because that's the short, that's a shortcoming of the, of the technological perspective, like, writ large. Like, at some point, you, like, run out of stuff to be, like, like, like, it kind of oversimplify it. You know, like, if there's not, if there's not more things to exploit, I mean, I mean that in, like, a value neutral term, like, just, if the material is not there, like, what do you, you, you're done, you know? Well, that's also the whole thing about, you know, in Star Trek, you see these, uh, mission. machines that just create food.

And it's like, what's that machine run on? Yeah, exactly. And what happens if that's taken away? Well, it's interesting, too. Like, I don't want to digress too much, but it's like, that was the reason why people went crazy about nuclear power, you know, like thinking, you know, like, literal, like, atomic age stuff. Like, this is, you know, a brave new era of infinite energy.

Like, you can, like, for all practical purposes, like, atomic energy is, like, power from nothing. Like, eventually, yeah, like, if your, your fuel source does burn out. but that's but but it's it's exponential it's got an exponentially longer um life than any other this evil fuel source that's why that's we're going to see colliding more and more too is that these transhumanist types who think that they who think that that's like what their utopia is but at the same time they're like terrified of of things like nuclear power it's like you can't have it both ways but no that's the yeah that's why um yeah that's that's that's that's that's that's that's

It's in every, well, that's one of the reasons like Dune is smart science fiction. Everybody's a different kind of thing, but, you know, like, Dune deals in that planetary level, like, shortage economies, which eventually everything becomes a shortage economy, you know, over a long enough timeline, whatever how conservationist you are. You know, it's, you know, like, the Harkonans, the Harkonans have become incredibly wealthy, but the cost was basically, like, annihilating photosynthetic potential on their planet, so they're, like, a dying society. you know like Iraq as itself you know there's no water so I mean like everything from the way people greet one another to you know the way

like the way military doctrine is organized you know is account for the you know the shortage of water you know like the entire the galactic imperium runs on this narcotic that's also you know like a life enhancing like geriatric but that also is you know the basic

this like practical necessity of allowing navigators to perceive like what pathways could be navigated through space without you know losing without like 50% attrition or something for their for their guild highlighters but um

but that's um to bring it back uh like what heidegger's what he saw in the third Reich it wasn't so much that he's like it wasn't so much that he thought Hitler himself was a heroic figure

although he may have I mean frankly I made the point before. Germans didn't particularly like the NSDAP. They loved Adolf Hitler. It wasn't so much that he thought the national socialist program was this incredible

revolutionary program. It's that this was the first time in the modern age and at the most critical juncture owing to the revolutionary situation underway globally that there was some kind of

political cadre talking about what we just discussed. Hitler was saying there is a crisis in Western civilization. Nobody else was saying that. Whether he was wrong or right or good or evil or neither, it wasn't... Huey Long wasn't saying that

there's a spiritual crisis in the West, and that's why our system is breaking down and we can no longer sustain, you know, like a moral or social consensus. You know, nobody in the Soviet Union, I mean, the purpose they were all dead, was saying, you know, well, this is a confrontation basically with God

and transcendence. You know, nobody on this planet was saying that. I think the Japanese were, but that's a whole other subject, and that's a fascinating topic as to why you know, why there was that affinity. and Italian fascism

had something of a different source and we'll get into that as we get into the nulti proper that was related to the kind of intellectual nexus that national socialism was but it was different it was far more radical

it was far more of a it was far more of a of a revolutionary response to conditions immediately precedence So basically Heidegger's understanding was the form this is going to take in ideological terms isn't really important. You know, the fact that this is conceptually front and center is what is important.

And if this movement is allowed to be destroyed, there's going to be no more Europe. you know um and again not not because he saw that there was something intrinsically sacred about the national socialist movement or something like there was in heidegger's mind like that kind of thing wasn't even possible through political um activity but this was the spark of that awakening okay um And that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, that's, the, the, so no, so noity, noity was, um, he was a student of Heidegger and he became very close to the family. Uh, he downplayed this and a lot of his opponents, I think like this was something sinister or something.

Like, I, no idea absolutely was not, you know, like, running from some sinister association. I mean, that's for apostorous is that he he didn't want to mine clout from a man who was you know a really like an intellectual giant and I think anybody who's serious in their study of

philosophy whether they accept all a high-de-risk postulets or not acknowledges that you know um what really uh the book that first put Nolty on the map was uh the fascist missing sign on Ipuk

fascism in its epoch. It was translated in English as three faces of fascism. Okay. And this was probably the first serious treatment of fascism and national socialism from a critical perspective through the lens of, you know, continental philosophy and political theory.

Something that had become popular in the 50s, was this idea of totalitarianism. And that, I mean, part of this was just typical kind of Cold War vernacular, extrapolated to the academy and passed off as some sort of meaningful analysis

in lieu of, you know, just kind of cheap polemic, which, in my opinion, it was, cheap polemic. But there's this idea, there's this kind of like pop sociological, understanding in the academy that, oh, well, what really

distinguishes modern states from one another is that places like the Third Reich and the Soviet Union were totalitarian. Presumably in America and in the UK, we value personal liberty and things. And so we don't have to suffer the total state because our people wouldn't tolerate it. I mean, that's fucking stupid for all kinds of reasons.

And it also obviously doesn't account for the fact that these states that supposedly share like a common value system these totalitarian states like wage these like utterly devastating like Rosson Creek

conflicts against one another but um you know novelty basically his objective was the kind of like rebut that tuitionists as well as as to

as well as to tackle some of the more serious critiques and treatments of the they were like, but that nevertheless kind of like missed the mark. Basically, what he laid down was that the action Francai, which was kind of

got leading intellectual was Charles Maras. He said, look, you know, France, which had, France was kind of the perennial canary in the coal mine as regards to revolutionary processes. Obviously, you know, it was

it was at the turn of the 19th century that France was utterly devastated by a revolutionary historical impulse so he said that Noltee suggested that a kind of a kind of deep-seated reactionary tendency developed in France

okay and which endures so the opposition in France is always going to be like radically conservative okay and um people like de maestra um you know

the counterenlightenment philosophers um there was very much like a a francophone like stamp on this okay so he says that emerging in the 20th century

kind of like the first truly like modern like in 20th century terms like reactionary movement was like the action frenzy okay he said the response to that reaction were the Italian

fascists, okay? Who were it was basically a radical proletarian movement. You know, that it was a form of both resistance to and reaction against modernity, but it also

embraced certain aspects of hypermodernity, you know, which seemed what seemed incoherent, the people who don't really understand was underway. But there was a, I think that one of the reasons I emphasize George Sorrell so much is because thinkers like him are kind of the tie that binds,

what seems like, opposing tendencies. But, and most significant, nobility suggested, National Socialism was a synthesis of these two tendencies, you know, which themselves were a reaction against, you know, the tendency towards Bolshevism as the new kind of, as the new iteration of, you know, what was first emergent with the Jacobin Revolution. You know, thus national socialism, it's both radical and reactionary. It's both revolutionary and conservative. you know, his point was this was actually a very coherent, very

cohesive, remarkably integral ideological program. And it's one of the reasons people responded to it like they did. Like this idea was just some, I mean, politicians are constantly trying to, conventional politicians, they're constantly promising all things

all people, they're constantly preaching, especially in those days, some kind of reconciliation between the classes. They were getting absolutely nowhere, you know, whatsoever. But you're supposed to believe the national socialists, they could just somehow, like, remedy these things, like good propaganda. You catch them in the corner of your eye. Distinctive, by design.

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Even though there was no coherence to it like that's ridiculous you know like one of the reasons why they were able to capture demanded that they were was because they were uniquely astride the

dialectical process as it was either resolving or coming to pieces however one perceives it as of like 1929, 1930 um the ultimate point that even people who are

partisans and standard bearers of the spirit of the age in which they live and even men were willing to literally kill or die for their ideological commitments they may not even be fully aware of what of what phenomena they are serving or what they're participating in and what's underway in apoccal terms

um Noldi's opinion was basically that what philosophy lives on in political terms you know, whatever you can say about, you know, philosophy is having been, you know, divorced from what's become scientific praxis, whatever you can say about, you know, anything related to them to the conventional sociology. Politics, if anything, has become, like, more remote from the common man's ability to

to um to apprehend you know the metapolitical dimension of politics as he was observing it um you know

um in the the early Cold War Nalti's opinion was one of the reasons these are particularly dangerous times it's not just because of the state of techniques um and obviously you know like the

the uh the development of the bomb and things like this but you've got people who absolutely have no ability to perceive what's underway and they're at the helm of of great power states and they're either conflating rhetoric with reality

or they perceive the fact that they've been able to capture they've been able to rise to the front office or the or the titular head of a state organ that at least can manufacture consent to the degree that, you know, they're not going to be removed by

force. You know, they take that as some sort of like providential indicator that, you know, there's somehow fit to render decisions when they absolutely are not. And this is important. the uh and this was in fact

uh this was in fact an aspect too that I believe Heidegger felt was present in in fascism that uh mind you there was plenty of national souls as galiters who weren't particularly intelligent

um even those who were didn't view themselves as some kind of like as some kind of like high priesthood of the political or something but these guys did view themselves almost out of exception as initiates into historical processes, you know, that they came to perceive either through their baptism by fire at the front as young men, or, you know, by some sort of epiphany that a lot of people suggested that they had, you know, in the company of Hitler, I mean, whether you accept that or not,

there was an understanding among national socialists, among fascists. Stuff like the Iron Guard was a bit different. I looked back on the stuff as like adjacent, but not really the same phenomenon. It was far more kind of conventionally theological and related to to what we think of as the Crusader impulse, like literally. but um

just the very fact that these men looked at themselves and the terms that I described it says that they were conceptualizing politics in a way that their enemies were not okay um like the cope of anti-fascists as well that's because they were crazy

okay but that's not that's not that's a non answer it's a non perspective um the way these people is like the true national socialist partisans in the only's estimation. They viewed the process that we talked about a moment ago at the outset

of not just the removal of man from history and the removal of man from historical time by the combination of the technological perspective and the deterioration of the ability to approach God in either pious or conceptual terms

Nalty believed that this would never, like man would never recover. Okay? If the kind of practical transcendence what he called it of the Soviet Union and the United States of Sovietism and Americanism reached full realization,

what did he mean by practical transcendence? okay when man is able to master things that once were believed only to be the the domain of God

that's when God is truly dead in the in the collective cultural mind okay like whether you're talking about you know the conquest of space

what you're talking about the humerus of like a culture of that claims, like, we can turn, like, a male into a female and vice versa. Or you're talking about people who claim, like, you know, we can create humans, like, outside of a woman's womb, you know, just by the manipulation of gametes and things. Yes, okay, that kind of thing is born of a humorous, which is not remotely godly. We're talking about, we're talking about cultural mindset. And, you know, we're talking about the way these things are, the way these things are, are devised according to, you know, man generally,

man's ability to perceive it generally. And, again, we're already talking about conditions whereby man's ability to know God has been irreparably compromised. Okay, this is a basic vulnerability here. You know, the irony being, of course, that as this kind of practical transcendence is accomplished, you know, the absence of culture and the ripping out a man from these temporal boundaries that facilitate culture that makes it more brutish, like more ignorant, like more impoverished. You know, it breeds literal backwardness

because people no longer understand, you know, race and class anymore. You know, people no longer pursue meaningful education. You know, at best, you know, like an educated man is a technical mission, you know, like it becomes it the like the fruit of this transcendence and this ability to create

you know, godlike techniques and presumably generate wealth out of nothing is ironically a kind of like a kind of total degradation of the human being

you know at scale and the absolute like annihilation of culture. I was in a few generations of this. Presumably the result is what Hitler said about the destruction of man's ability to bear culture as being the end result of an intention of a Bolshevized planet whereby people won't really be people anymore.

Regardless of the mentioned material in question, they'll have no memory of culture, they'll be unable to bear it even if they did. You know, you'll have people basically who live on a level of animals, just the ability to speak and

you know, think abstractly so far as being able to kind of kind of kind of like the next day when they want to fill their belly with or satisfy whatever glandial impulse by accomplishing. But you know, the only thing that really makes

man man is culture. There's not there's not that's an anatomable thing or what have you or some special structure in his brain that makes this impossible. And this is what was a fundamental concern to Nolte. This is, I believe, why he began writing when he did as the Cold War began heating up. I want to wrap this up in a minute

because I'm not feeling great and also I realize this is like a long introduction man but I think it's important because like I assuming you're okay with this is your show next episode

I want to get into the historicist debate or the historicistrate as it was called the historian's controversy there's what put a novelty on the map kind of on the academic map. I mean, people who

who had an interest in kind of philosophy and in serious scholarship of the Third Reich knew of him. But in the late 1980s, kind of as philosophical and politically philosophical discussion of the Third Reich and the Soviet Union,

you know, kind of as the Cold War was winding down, this kind of thing was at its most intense, interestingly. but next episode we'll get into how that was emergent and how exactly

novelty became affiliated or identified not affiliated with like Holocaust revisionism which like I said there's nothing at all wrong with Holocaust revisionism but nullity is adjacent but a different represents a different tendency

I'll get into what I mean by that I hope that this was not too scattershot I didn't bore people also I'm not feeling great so forgive me man if like my ideas were not not terribly fluid. No, no problem at all. Do some plugs and we'll end it.

Yeah, man. You can always find me at the Substack. It's Real Thomas 777.7.7.com. We've got to chat there too, in addition to, like, my, in addition to my podcast and, like, videos and other cool stuff, you can always find me on Twitter, at least at the time of being. they like monetize me so I don't think they're getting imminently nuke me but you never fucking know it's uh

at capital REL underscore number seven HMAS 7777 you only find me on my website it's real Thomas 777.com real

or it's just Thomas 77.com I'm sorry as you can tell them it fever it's just number 7 HMAS 777.com I'm on telegram. I'll probably get more active as I have less time on social media to fuck around. You can find me on YouTube.

It's Thomas TV. Do a search for Thomas 7-7 on YouTube and you'll find me. Yeah, man. That's what I got. All right. Thank you. Until the next episode. Thanks, Thomas.

Yeah, man. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pete Cagnano show. Thomas is here and we're going to jump into part two of a dive into Ernst Nalty. How are you done, Thomas? I'm doing well. There's a context to what became known as the historic or strife. Beyond the obvious that needs to be addressed,

the kind of first proverbial shots fired across the bow, specifically relating to revisionist treatments of the Holocaust and historiographical terms, that conversation was started, at least between public intellectuals. And in the Bundes Republic, there was an active community of public intellectuals, not just because of the peculiar and rather tragic conditions that characterize that state, you know, sociologically and politically. But the Cold War meant that these people had a say in policy discussions that they wouldn't otherwise.

I mean, that was in any in any combatant state to the Cold War and when one considers the ongoing status of mobilization and everything else, I don't think it's hyperbole to refer to

NATO and their Warsaw Pact ops as combative states. In every country, thus situated, you had a coterie of intellectuals who were not just permitted to speak on policy matters but we're expected to do so but in Germany this was particularly this is particularly visible a tendency an active a kind of at discourse you catch them in the

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The Liddle New Bridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. What kicked off the historicist strike was, I mean, the immediate catalyst was Reagan's Bitburg speech. For people who are too young to know or I don't remember, the D-Day anniversary, the 40th anniversary and 84, Reagan was in Europe anyway for NATO-related summit type diplomatic activities. He spoke at Bitburg, and he went out of his way to say that the Vafin SS and Vermeck Ward had buried there were victims of the war, just as much as the Al-Ebbels. I'd word that and they should be respected. He's basically parody what Conrad Adnauer said. Adnauer, much as

people on the right dislike him, I don't have many nice things to say about Ednauer, but he's a complicated figure. And Adnauer said, Ednauer insisted that Vermeck veterans get full pension rights. The Bob and SS was not so fortunate, but

that's why they established their own you know networks to facilitate that kind of thing. this sparked this kind of whole I mean obviously the reds like the actual reds were still like very powerful then their um

their narrative was well you see that this just proves that you know that NATO was just a fascist like a reconstituted fascistic block that is trying to trying to halt the advance of history you know by my military arms and the threat of nuclear war and of course they they find common cause with these dead fascists

you know these guys these sort of miltosed social democrats they basically parroted that but for a lot more dishonest and dishonorable reasons you know they Reagan was kind of Donald Trump before there was a Trump you know

I mean his he was a lot more of a significant figure in terms of power political phenomenon of things obviously it was a world situation but you know the narrative people Reagan was a man that people loved to hate for the kind of permanently aggrieved opposition, you know, in America, as well as in the EU.

There's a broader context of Bitburg, though, that relates to Helmut Kohl. And like, we talk about Cole a lot in these series that we do. Cole was about the only, like, truly kind of nationalistic-minded consular post-war. You know, and that, like, his final act, in that role, like we talked about, was the unconditional recognition

of the United States of Croatia, which like monkey-runched a lot of of the designs of Bush and Baker and what they hope to accomplish in Europe after the Cold War. You know, but it wasn't just, it wasn't just placating coal.

Like, people have to understand that there was this bizarre situation after detot fell apart. and the was dead was was dead as as Dillinger really even before

Reagan took the oath of office okay and a few things owed to that which are kind of outside the scope of our media discussion here but such that it was the Cold War was back on in earnest the Bundes Republic

had a military draft they weren't just expected to participate in the defense of of Europe from Warsaw Pact. They were the main line of resistance. Okay, so we were drafting these guys, you know, directly out of high school. We were putting them on what was to be the front line of World War III. In nuclear command and control terms, the NATO charter demanded,

and what operations protocol was, was that American nuclear weapons based in the Bundes Republic, warheads would always be in the possession of American forces, but their launch vehicles would be under control of the Bundes Republic.

And in order to be married to those vehicles, there had to be an agreement on a legitimate launch order. So basically, we were relying on these people to essentially commit suicide to stop the Soviet Union when the Warsaw Pact

onslaught came. Now, if you're going to do that, while at the same time saying, Germany is basically a constitutionally evil country, like, race of people, and German militarism is the source of all woes in the world. There's a cognitive

dissonance there that can't be sustained in policy terms. And that's becoming more and more clear. You know, and for context, The main line of resistance, if Warsaw Pact had in fact assaulted, obviously the Battle of Berlin would have been a maelstrom. The Bundeswehr had to defend, they're expected to defend Berlin,

they're expected to reinforce the Benelux and the British and the North German plane, and they're expected to defend the folded gap at all cost to the last man with nuclear weapons if necessary. and to reinforce and reconstitute forces there, basically until they could no longer do so. They're talking about a million dead Germans within a few days. And again, you can't, if that's standing policy and you're public about that policy, because that's the only way that you can maintain credibility, contra opt for. You've got to be willing to back it up politically.

And if you're Ronald Reagan, that means you can't go to Bitburg and say that these men buried here. Who died resisting communism? I might add, you know, are the scum of the earth and they're evil and we must never let them rise again. I mean, this should be obvious to anybody, but, you know, one of the perverse ethics of the Cold War, I think was that there was a

there was an aspect of the left who were truly like Warsaw Act sympathizers I mean obviously I mean though that that element was always far stronger and more organically constituted in Europe and it wasn't America but there was some of that in America even after the 68 kind of schism but like a lot of these people were just

I mean they were just they were just disengaged morons like they had no like it's like it didn't compute that right or wrongly America was in the Cold War it couldn't just be stopped you know and I mean unless um

unless America was going to call it off or seed you know the inter-german border to the communists I mean this the not just the the mainland resistance and the share

point of NATO's military capability, but also the political will to resist Warsaw Pact in political terms came down to Germany's continually willingness to

contribute. You know, so this was kind of an open the door to what became known as, you know, the historic strife. And I made the point in the first episode, So the reason why I deep dive so much in Annois's background,

it's not just because I've got my own interests in political theory and philosophical things. It's because the reason why Knowlese's lumped in with, you know, all revisionists, so they're talking about people like Fred Leichter or Ernstundell or David Irving. Like basically everyone just lumped into the revisionist camp. if they reject this claim that the German people

are the adivistic population that is prone to homicidal racial hatred at scale that the Third Reich was the spontaneous, unprovoked criminal conspiracy to carry out

those aforementioned tendencies against a scapegoated population, again for no particular reason other than hostility like ambiguous hostility and also that the reason why the 20th century was characterized by

these deep crises that culminated in you know two global conflagrations and then a half century of nuclear brinksmanship is because of some sort of

Sondervig within Germany's cultural trajectory that makes them prone to militarism. Like none of that makes any sense. Okay, I mean, that should be clear to anybody who's at all sophisticated on political

or military matters, that's just not how populations behave at scale. And politically, that's just not how things work. And the only starting point was basically long before 80, 45, 86, when the historic of strife really jumped off in earnest. Like, Nolte made that point in his earlier books. He said, if you're going to claim that national socialism was just this sort of,

was just sort of like the private prejudices of Adolf Hitler as policy, he's like, well, pretty much every German executive, whether you're talking about, you know, Karl Lugar, the mayor of post-Haftsapstaffir Vienna, whether you're talking about Bismarck or they're talking about Hindenburg, like none of these people could have been said to have liked Jews or like not dislike Jews categorically. The idea there's some weird thing in policy terms

that people hadn't heard before, but all deeply felt, that doesn't make any sense. and secondly again that's just not because racism isn't that's not an explanation

and that's just not how politics are conducted and finally as I've said before some of this has deliberately misconstrued some it's because people are remote enough from the epoch they don't really understand this

the Germans weren't obsessed with race in a way that other people weren't. Germans talking about Jews as this race that's different than them. That's the way everybody thought. Like, not necessarily about Jews, but that's what they thought about human behavior. You know, human behavior is biological. If you want to understand, you know, political behavior, it's racial. You know, what makes it possible where people live among each other is this kind of like blood compatibility.

You know, so, oh, obviously there's tension. between Germans and Jews or between Poles and Jews or Poles and Russians because they're different races. That's what they meant. They weren't saying Jews are this evil race that's different than us because we're obsessed with race and we figured

this all out. That's the way everybody talked. That's what everybody thought. And that doesn't make any sense and that's weird. Like I'm not saying it's not racial differences between people. I'm saying in those terms, that's not the way people think about politics anymore. That's the way everybody thought about politics in the 1920s, 30s, and 40s.

America was singly obsessed with this idea that, you know, eugenics could, in selective intervention, whether it's sterilizing people who are deemed to be criminal incorrigibles, or whether it was, you know, facilitating, you know, large families among high IQ people. People weren't convinced that this was going to usher in some utopia. Okay. So that's not an explanation to say that, like, oh, Germans had raced on the brain and just decided they didn't like, Jews because they were an impure race or something. That's totally the wrong way to look at it.

Like you can say that that kind of thinking is bullshit and it's nonsense, but to characterize it as like evil German thought or some crazy thing German people thought, you know, that was exclusive to their cultural pathologies or something. That's complete nonsense.

So there's that too. And it's survived. I mean, you see it today with this whole Candice Owens Daily Wire thing. You know, you even have people who you never would have thought come out and say things like the cause of anti-Semitism

is Jewish behavior. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Even the term itself too, like, why so there's tension between Germans and Jews because Germans hate Semitism. Like what do they even mean? Like, what the fuck is Semitism? You know, like, that's like saying,

um, that's like saying like, yeah, you know, the Koreans and the Chinese are, they, they dislike each other because of epic. phytic foldism. Like, it doesn't, like, uh, it suggests that there's some immutable trait, like, unrelated

to politics that that people just, you know, somehow decide that it's a basis for animosity. And like, it's not, that's not the way things work. You know, um, that's why, that's why I discouraged be able from using that term. Like,

anti-Semitism is even more meaningless than racism. I mean, at least like, at least like, I mean, race, obviously, exists and it's conceivable that there's people who for no particular reason just have certain preferences and prejudices and race is an essentially

characteristic and we're talking about humans like that makes sense like you know Germans just oppose Semitism but the best is that Palestinians are anti-Semitic so like they're anti themselves I mean like I don't like it's literally retarded You catch them in the corner of your eye.

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But anyway, but Noltee was basically, I mean, I think he was a remarkable guy. I mean, that goes out to saying. And he had a far more, he had a far greater aptitude for analysis of this. historical process than most people, even even kind of, who are of his class and caliber, but his view of Germany's sort of tragedian heritage that's basically like a right Hegelian view. It's not this like outlandish thing.

And one of the reasons why he was so savagely excoriated by his enemies. You know, the degree to which legal reasoning becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy, and I invoke Oliver Holmes a lot, who I think I'll go to Holmes Jr. I think a lot of people want to read, because I, maybe it's because I was a lawyer and like I spent a lot of time with legal theory and case law and things. People have this idea that Holm Jr. was like this big liberal or something. like they don't

hold those will point out legal realism is that there's no such thing and that the law is not a science it's not this process by which you know a kind of like science of ethics can be discovered or by which you know outcomes can be guaranteed that on a long enough timeline

or assuming good faith among actors potential actors to the controversy at bar you know the best possible outcomes for all parties can be realize his whole point was that all the law is as political preferences that are totally arbitrary in any given epoch, you know, dressed up as some sort of, um, as some sort of logical, like,

like, as some sort of imperative based on a science of logic and that's complete horseshit. And because world order was so much, um, structured according to the letter of the letter of, according not just not just a letter of rhetoric but to but like legitimacy was so much bound up with language you know laid down by supposedly by supposedly objective um international tribunals first of course Nuremberg this idea that oh this this is just an absolute truth you know that oh obviously you know there was there was this there was this massive conspiracy to murder Jewish people for no reason hatched in 1923 by this by this criminal cadre. I mean, the court said so. And if you're gonna base, if you're gonna base what succeeded the moral consensus

as regarded war and peace on what amounts to an ideological statement dressed up as a criminal court decision, that kind of tortured logic and sort of like non-reasoning is gonna take on this outside significance. so that's part of it you know so pointing out obvious and and not so obvious but troubling facts of history related to the reality of you know kind of the anthropological and sociological origins of conflict at scale this is like outraged people because you know they um like the like the simpleton's kind of intellectual sanctuary is always legalism you know um um And I made the point, too, that by the time a strategic parody had set in, I mean, even beforehand, probably by the time the single integrated operation plan, which was America's strategic warfighting doctrine, I mean, by the time like that, it just became openly accepted that to fight and win a nuclear war, we're going to kill 80 million people. I mean, like, you know, you, you know, you no longer can talk about, you know, you know what we're going to invoke this kind of faux moral outrage about anything that went on in World War II. And you certainly can't declare that, you know, that men who devise the technologies of Megadeth or who implement them at scale and executive capacities are somehow the enemies of humanity.

I mean, like, nobody, even like a child can see, like, why that's, you know, that's ridiculous but but that's why that that was the context um and I just did do anything today too because people still try to tear down Nolte's um postulates but they increasingly they can't do it I mean first of all I mean there's just people in Ack and beam are just lacking and they're not built for it but there also is not like really a context anymore you know like Like they can't, like without the, without sort of the Cold War, you know, not just as an existential sort of reality around which things just orbit, you know, politically and sociologically in existential terms. You know, there's not, there's not the contextual focus in order to kind of provide people with ethical, like, like, local ontological sort of poll stars is where, like, the situate themselves or like what the starting point should be.

for um for such a discussion but um so i think i wanted to get into a little bit too um is uh you know the um the historians who did who were basically viewed as as sympathetic to the bundesphere um as like as an institution and its political and military mission these were guys i tell the guy kind of most exemplified that position with Yakom Fest. And it shows you how sort of like perverted discourse had become and remains, although thankfully it's not quite as bad around the issue with Germany and the German, the German historical experience. Like Fest, his father was this, was this anti-government extremist in the Third Reich.

Festi actually, he either served in the Vermont to the Vophan SS. the finalized of the war, which I think is quite heroic, but he hid this fact until the day he died. He was this big anti-fascist. He was definitely a proponent of the Sonderveg

or a special way or special path theory of German historical development. But he also acknowledged that the German people were facing oblivion

not just psychologically and culturally, but biologically. He was very anti-Soviet. You know, when he cast, he said Hitler basically was almost like a shamanistic sort of figure who reflected the will of the body politic. You know, he wasn't simply leading people astray or something. That's a pretty, weak argument

and a milk toast argument, but that was considered to be this kind of like extreme epilogia or like some sort of like a hard right dangerous idea I mean which is totally insane. AJP Taylor he's another guy and he's well worth reading

he's a typical kind of German hating Englishmen of the epoch he's got this irrational hostility to all to German all into German but his take was that you know Churchill brought the war in the West down upon

himself and upon his country Why on earth with the Germans want a war in the West, which obviously they didn't I mean the fact that that was viewed as some sort of minority cake is absurd too but his he had a unique kind of

or he had him rather he had his own kind of discreet understanding of Sondervaig and that it was there was a unique German trajectory

in the modern era that became aggravated in earnest after 1848 and particularly after unification in 1879 but that you know

Hitler and geostrategic terms acted like any other German executive would you know and again he had a punitive view of the Germans as a people. But he completely rejected this idea that, you know, Hitler was his evil madman and just some kind of outlier. And interestingly, one of the, one of the contributors was then pretty, I think it was, I think it was a camera's name. The guy in 2008, he wrote a pretty, he wrote a, he wrote a very good biography of Vladimir Putin, which, Of course, was, like, you know, it was like hysterically attacked by these people who see Russians under their bed and think that Vladimir Putin is an evil madman for not inviting NATO to point nuclear weapons at him at the capitation range. But I can't remember the guy's name.

Was it Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson? What's that? Was it Dr. Matthew Raphael Johnson? No, he was a German guy. Okay. And he was what the historic The historic strike in total

constituted about like two other than academics like on the right or the left. Nolte and Habermaz like Castro Habermaz were the primary kind of theorists that people associate with it. But there's a lot of people and some pretty diverse opinions forwarded. But this guy's name will come to me.

but um the uh if they're dissenting of a quorum of guys to fritz fisher among them he uh he had a a functionalist the viewpoint of things um and this was in vogue based with like neorealism you know like traditional realism realpolitik emphasized anthropological and organic you know of conflict and of state behavior and human behavior at scale you know really from the 60s onward it became invoked you know talking about institutional behavior you know how you know structural phenomenon and um alternatively and sometimes concomitantly functionalist explanations you know are you know reveal reveal data, meaningful data, about war and peace, but also, you know, political behavior, scale.

You know, and of course, too, that, um, that, that, that, um, that shares some common ground with, you know, some of these moderate lefty galeens and things, but in other ways, you know, they objected to that, too. So there was some interesting, there was some interesting opinions being bandied back and forth, but what, the reason it became this, sensorious controversy was for all the wrong and most predictable reasons. You know, it, um, and, um, obviously any, any, any, any, any German who truly right wing, you know, not even, particularly pro-national socialist, but remotely patriotic or unwilling to kind of take a knee before, you know, proverbially, before, you know, NATO and Zionist interests of the things. They're going to view the Sonderwe conception as well as, you know, the, the, um, functionalist explanations as, it's basically, you know, left-wing in nature and, and, and intrinsically

punitive, which they were, you know, um, but it's also, again, you know, by the, by the mid-1980s, you know, you're talking about four decades having passed, even if, even if the third Reich had been this totally brutish regime and even if even if its fur had been you know the second coming of Dracula or something it's like well again you know if you're expecting us us being us being the German people you know to take a million dead in 72 hours you know fighting off the ivan's and you expect our land which you know for the record has been occupied now for 40 years it's the designated nuclear battlefield of World War III

you know you want you to base you to be you know like kind of the holy warriors of what you consider civilization against communism but then you're going to turn on to say that you know we're evil pieces of shit like that doesn't that doesn't trap

you know um but it's also um I think uh and Noli himself made this point you know

as I get a lot of hate mail for a lot of reasons and a lot of which surprisingly relates to the Vietnam War I think Americans are supposed to know older American is they feel they got they got strong emotions bound up with this and I understand that I invoke the Vietnam War for comparative purposes not not not not for some cynical reason but for the reason Nolty did if you want to understand you catch them in the corner of your eye distinctive By design, they move you, even before you drive. The new Cooper plugin hybrid range for Mentor, Leon and Terramar. Now with flexible PCP finance and trade-in boosters of up to 2,000 euro.

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We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items all reduced to clear. From home essentials to seasonal must-habs. When the doors open, the deals go fast. Come see for yourself. The Liddle New Bridge Warehouse Sale,

28th to 30th of November. Little more to value. In the ethical terms set out by the victors in World War II and by their ethical metrics and by what was considered until the end of the Westphalian era to be, you know, sort of the moral consensus, really the laws and customs of war. The Vietnam War made hash with that, all those things, as much as the Second World War did. And the internal logic of a free fire zone is not any different than that of the mandate of 11 Einzsche's group of formation, saying that, you know, designating an area of free fire zone and saying that there are no civilians here.

And regardless of age, sex, overall health, everybody is a fair target. Because anybody who remains here after this, you know, they've been. put on notice and give an opportunity to be evacuated is obviously, you know, um, an active communist or a sympathizer with the enemy idea. And because, you know, as the mentioned material that is literally the, what, you know, the bearer of that idea, it's got to be annihilated, it being human beings. Welcome to the, welcome to warfare of the 20th century, where all wars are are total wars and all total wars are ideological wars.

You know, so when you've got every week America dropping, you know, the body count as their victory metric, like literally measuring measuring whether we're winning the Cold War where it's gone hot and mountains of corpses we're counting. You know, when the victory metric

of nuclear war is, can we kill an enemy society? You know, it's, you know, by annihilating 80 million of its people. When you've got the Chinese who, after 68, according to a lot of these same academics, who were doing things like raking nollie of the coals, this was kind of the true progressive regime that was realizing communism,

they were deliberately killing off tens of millions of their own people as useless eaters. Okay, you can't, it's the last, laughable to turn around then and start and start spitting like Nürmber lies. Or trying to declare that, you know, yes, the world is a wicked place and war is terrible, but, you know, those Germans, you know, they're, they're just, you know, they're just in league with Lucifer and, you know, we can never forgive them for this. So I mean, I think, it was all those things.

you know um no that doesn't that that's not to say that i mean obviously it's not to say that what sort of political biases you know gain momentum and and and become like consensus consensus reality in in conceptual terms has as any kind of bearing on on unreasonable things or a reasonableness itself or anything like that but you know we're not we're we weren't talking about you know some sort of argument between the hoy ploy we We weren't talking about some policy initiative that elected officials trying to convince people of through television media or something. We were talking, we were talking, this was a very, this was an argument between, this was like a controversy between, you know, like a very narrow quarter of academics who, you know, all of whom knew better than what they were alleging. those contra multi I mean

so that's important um that's important to to keep in mind and um I'll also say and I actually wrote um I wrote about this

and I um I really than jumping around a bit but uh just I mean for clarity too here's here's what these are the four questions or the four like Conradist, according to Nolte himself, as well as Habermas, and according to the people who populated

most of these forums, where these debates are being had between, you know, 84, 85 and, like, 89. It was, were the crimes of the Third Reich uniquely evil? Or were they comparable, you know, to the, scaled violence of the Soviet Union or communist countries. Secondly, is Sondervig a meaningful concept at all? Was the violence of the Third Reich or crimes, if you want to abide? Nuremberg logic. A reaction to the Soviet violence, like an equal and opposing reaction.

And finally, you know, should the Germans, like, as a people or as, like, a national group, like, bear some, some generational burdening guilt, you know, for the supposed national socialist crimes, or should they be permitted, you know, to participation in some sort of, you know, cultural and national life? And that really, I mean, regardless, like, even if one accepts the kind of, I'm a hyperposterous, the, the, you know the aforementioned postulist um this idea that this idea that um conflicts that are global and scale can just be caused by you know some national group of bad actors i mean that's that's the way a child would think you know i mean that's just it's on his face that's just that's just that's just incredibly stupid you know i mean emphasize that again and again like it's not even you know just not that that's not a serious people or a rational adults talk about historical cause and effect or or discuss political concepts, you know,

whether, you know, with the praxis or, you know, matters of pure theory, such a pure theory can exist in, uh, in, in, in, in discussion of politics. But, you know, in Nolty, one of the reasons I respected him is he, or one of the reasons I, he, he got. my attention initially. I mean, it was like pre-internet I'm talking. Before I became a lawyer, I put a lot of stock in direct testimony and discrete psychological aspects of within, you know, the mind of the key decision makers. And, you know, Naltese cited Hitler's table talk, you know, where Hitler would talk about repeatedly the rat cage torture. you know, and saying in the context of, you know, this is what the communists do to people.

And, you know, also talking about his own fate, you know, I'm not, I'm not going to let the communists capture me and subject me to the rat cage torture. Now, people like Habermost said, oh, this is absurd. This is, this is just Hitler suggesting that, you know, that you do a bullshitic enemy that apparently, you know, according to people like Habermaz existed, only in Hitler's imagination were prone to these barbaric acts. But the Soviets actually did that. You know, people Orwell, I assume college kids I'll still read. That's quite literally a plot, like a major plot point of 1984.

You know, Smith sells out Julia and his comrades. And what breaks his mind is that O'Brien threatens to rat cage him. You know, so this idea that this is something that Hitler made up

or was, you know, the sort of fever dreams of a madman. I mean, that's... The entire point of doing things like the rat cage torture, you do something like that for one of two reasons. Either you're a disgusting sadist who likes to torture people, or

you're devising things that are so terrifying to the human being kind of universally, regardless of, you know, sex or background or national or ethnic psychology. Like you divide things that are so horrible to human

beings that, you know, people instinctively will kind of bend to your will. And obviously, you publicize those things to terrify people at scale. Like, that was the whole point. You know, and it's this idea that, you know, and Robert Conquest, who I'm relying a lot upon for my own writing on this topic, you know, the Soviet Union had death camps decades before shot was fired in World War II. You know, they annihilated

10 million of their own people as of September 3rd, 1939. I mean, like, you can't get away from this. And the idea that, oh, well, Hitler couldn't have known about that. That's nonsense. You know, on my own substack, I wrote about Max von Schuvener,

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The Lidl Newbridge Warehouse Sale, 28th to 30th of November. Lidl, more to value. He fell at the Munich pooch. Like he'd actually, when the National Socialist charged the police court on, he'd locked arms of the Hitler, and he got shot. And he died instantly, like his heart got pierced. and when Richter fell, he had actually dislocated Hitler's shoulder. And Hitler later said, he said,

Richter was the, he's like, he's the only man we couldn't afford to lose at Munich. You know, he's like, our party, the party, like, never recovered. Now, I wrote a whole series on Richter because here's where his background was. He was a Baltic German, like Rosenberg, okay? And the Baltic Germans were instrumental and kind of shaping the early, like, the Post of Drexler, party. The post Drexler, but pre- pre-electoral path, National Socialist Party. Okay. When it was still in a very revolutionary

phase, but a phase that nonetheless was being shaped by Hitler, you know, doctrinally. He was a Free Corps veteran who'd, you know, been fighting, he'd been fighting the communists in the Baltic. But he also, he was a lesser aristocrat of some were known. He was in

Turkey when the Armenian genocide jumped off. And the way the world came to know of it was Richter was issuing these dispatches back to Berlin from the German diplomatic mission.

And the Kaiser's representative finally said, you got to stop doing this. You know, we need we need to try and get these people. These people being the terms, like back in the war, and whatever

government succeeds assault in it, we've got to have good offices with them. But, so Richter went to the Red Cross, and he started publicizing what he was seeing to anybody who would listen. And he was directly responsible for helping to rescue a lot of

vulnerable persons among this population. of targeted people, you know, like women, elderly, little children. So the Nansoulos' party, supposedly, the only reason it convened, the only reason it constituted itself, the only reason the guys like Richter clicked with Hitler was because they were racist who wanted to devise a criminal conspiracy to murder Jews. But Richter, like, he spent his spare time, like, worrying about ethnic cleansing. I mean like what was you doing that just for show like they just really really like Turkish people like I don't I mean this doesn't track like none of this tracks you know um

and that's what's important okay is that's what the big lie is you know the big lie is about stuff like Sunderberg it's about stuff like Sunderberg it's like making Adolf Hitler some sort of stand in for Lucifer and it's like secular religion is this idea that um the Germans, unlike every, you know, exclusive to themselves, unlike everybody else on this planet, we're obsessed with race and arbitrarily decided Jews are a bad race. Like, that's what matters. Instrumentalities of homicide don't matter. Like, arguing about, like, did 4 million people die or 8 million people die? That's, I mean, that's literally demented. It's also retarded. You know, I mean, besides, even if that is, even if that is something that people, I mean, people, I mean, people,

can research for everything they want but I mean if that is kind of like your your emphasis you should be reading people like Conquess you should be reading about um the logic of the free fire zone and the Vietnam conflict you should be reading about you know the Soviet death camp system you know and like Nolte himself said if you accept if you accept everything alleged by court history in total, including this idea of, you know, homicidal gas chambers, the Soviet Union literally did everything that the Third Reich allegedly did, you know, a decade beforehand,

with a possible exception of utilizing nerve gas at scale, which I hardly think matters. I'm not saying it doesn't matter if people die. I'm saying, you know, that we're talking about, you know, the preferred instrumentality of, of murderous scale. we're not talking about something of grand like substantive import you know so a lot of people are a lot of people are just kind of like tripping over themselves not just by allowing the opposition to define the parameters at discourse but also define like what is important you know so it's like

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Liddle, more to value. Court historians and people sympathetic to Zionism or whatever, or people who have some kind of like peculiar fixation with this idea that third Reich is the epitome of evil they don't get to decide you know what is what what the terms of discourse are they don't get to decide what the parameters are of of research they don't get to decide know what needs to be proved or rebutted you know as if they're you know they're like let the judge in a in a case at bar or something you know dictating the litigants you know what

the what their respective burdens are and things like that. It's also, I mean, what, at the end of the day, at the, you know, an ultimately at this point, too, at the end of the day, like, the past becomes the past at some point, you know, I mean, I, this is all I do is study playable theory and, you know, the historical process and things. you know it's I mean I'm the last person obviously would say like oh you know studying the struggle process doesn't matter

but this idea that even if even if truly horrible things occur that they can't be justified by any exigency or by any appeal to anything other than you know the kind of universal depravity of man

I mean it's kind of a so what I mean we we don't spend we don't spend decades or centuries wringing our hands because we inherited some guilt because people are bad, you know, or our ancestors are bad. That's just not the way we do things in the West, among other things. You know, I mean, yeah, obviously, an unrepentantant sinner is, there's a few things kind of more obtuse and ugly than that, but, you know, one sin isn't greater than another sin or less than

another. You know, it's just not, that's a bizarre way to look at the world, as if, you know, some sins are worse than others some historical events or criminal offenses others are just you know spontaneous occurrences and certain ones you inherit a kind of a liability for them that you have to atone for symbolically or ritually like this that's that's um that's really really really strange conceptually you know um and i put it i put that to people too like even if even if even if even if these people like have Are these people like kind of poor little Unfortunate Debbie Lipsstadt? He's is incredibly stupid. I mean Habermost wasn't stupid, but I mean she is but Even if everything she said was true, I mean it'd be kind of a big so what you know, I mean, am I

I supposed to go jump off a building because my answers is the bad things I I should I wear a hair shirt when I go to sleep or something or should I get like half of my money is a teeth feel like the local synagogue. Like, I don't... What exactly what do people want? You know? But I'm not...

I'm not just being uptoe. So they actually put this to people and they look at me like I'm an alien. But, um... I mean, maybe I am. I remember it's pretty weird, but I don't... I mean... They've pretty much to tell you what they want. Um, they want you not to just say that you know what happened was bad

and that it was the worst thing that ever happened. But they want you... to go out of your way to say the evil that was done to them was unique above what every other evil ever done in history was. No, legit. But then that plus $5 will get you a coffee at Starbucks. You know, I mean,

it's just doesn't, I mean, you can give in civil tens of things like that. And, but where the rubber meets the road, I mean, that doesn't really, that doesn't really matter.

even in the president. I mean, that's the point I make the people who go nuts about Israel and stuff. It's like even if you're, even if you're some, like, impassioned Zionist or somebody with a slave mentality, it's like not Jewish, but just decided, like, take on those prejudices for some unconscionable reason. I mean, it's like, okay, like, you know, the Palestinians, the Hisbalah, your ops aren't, they're not all going to, like, put down their clashing across and be like, you know what, you're right. You're the special victims of history. I'm a terrible person. I'm going to stop now.

You can evince like a billion rooms in the rest of the world that you're right. That's great. That being right doesn't win wars. Yeah, you're going to, it's easy to get people who live in a first world country who, you know, can have food. You can have food delivered to them to be, to adopt these things because, you know, they don't really have anything bad going on in their life. but when you have people in other countries who have in Arab countries who have real problems, they're like, well, fuck you. Well, it's just a weird, yeah.

I mean, it's somewhat, it's somewhat a, well, people don't think like it's nuts that, you know, I'm like, I'm around a lot of, like, non-white people. I mean, it's kind of like where I live, obviously. But, like, some of these guys are, like, record with and stuff. And I'm happy, like, let me record with them, you know, because they have interesting stuff to say. And like if people are interesting, you know, I, I, I, I, I feel lucky if they let me record what they got to say. But there's like, all these weirdos are just some of me hate mail. And even if there's some who aren't so much haters, but they're just like, you know, how are there with people possibly but you in their house?

I'm like, why would they care what I'm into? Like, that's not the way normal people think. It's like, you think that way because you're a weirdo. It's like, if you like, if you think that like black people, like look at some guy like, oh, that guy's got a Nazi shirt on. I can't let him in my house. Like no one thinks that way but total weirdos. You know, or like bitch made like, like suburbanite people who live through their television or something. Like I don't even know.

It's like no one thinks that way, man, like in the real world. You know, I guess that's like my point. You know, it's so you can the, what the, and in mind, that's the point I was made to be able to. Like part of the same thing is a nullity. It's that what it's not, what, what the way you judge these things, the way you judge kind of like what's shaping the conceptual horizon. It's not what, it's not what Ben Shapiro's saying or tweeting out.

It's not what MSNBC is saying. It's not, it's not like how these are being presented in Hollywood movies. You know, it's like a matter of zeitgeist. And once things, like, lose their kind of evocative power and, like, lose their, like, monumental power, like, they're done.

It can't be, like, recaptured. You know, and, like, nobody, like, no serious historian would take something like Schindler's list like seriously today. You know, like and that, that's not going to change. It's not coming back. You know, and nobody's people, like people basically, unless you're, unless you're one of these kinds of weird zip codes where people attend some, some crazy, like, like non-denom church that, like worships Israel. Or unless you're, you know, like in Skokie, Illinois, like, basically like nobody.

like Israel and like that's not going to change that's not going back the way it was you know 20 years ago you know like this can't the like zeitgeist um when the when the preceding the sort of conceptual structure like psychological constitution is gone like it's gone you know and everything is different now I mean that's that's why I was emphasized the people who say that things are so terrible today that it's it's practically like mainstream to be somewhat right wing you know like like that that's a sea change from 30 years ago. That was like unthinkable

30 years ago. You know, and things are never going to go back to the way they were. You know? And that's the way to look at it. It's not it's not what people who have access to remains

of the bully pulpit are like shouting out kind of into the into the abyss or whatever, just to hear their own echoes. I don't know But the book you were trying to think of earlier Was that Putin and the rise of Russia by Michael Sturmer?

Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's well worth reading. And it's actually like a very balanced biography. It's not some like Putin hagiography. I don't understand how people like Speaking of bizarre sort of conceits, like deciding you randomly hate Vladimir Putin is incredibly strange. Especially when you consider he's like a moderate liberal

if anything, like a typical cop, which is what he was. He's, like, obsessed with, you know, kind of the appearance of abiding the rules-based order. But it's actually a really interesting book. And, yeah, that Mueller or Miller was a... He wasn't a leading light like Nolte, but he's a guy who... During the historicer strife, he was a younger academic. He had interesting things to say. that

oh a book RHS Stofley who wrote that book The biography of Hitler that I think is so great Hitler Beyond Evil and Tyranny he wrote this book

with this retired Vermeck general officer called NATO under attack it was published in 1984 and it got a lot of attention from war college types like the sub

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this Christmas with vouchers from Trump Dunebeg. Search Trump Ireland gift vouchers. Trump on Dunbiog, Kush Farage. How NATO can win in Europe without nuclear weapons. And if you're a late Cold War geek like I am, I find it reemergence of conventional force structures as a major, this positive variable. It would be fascinating just because it's cool.

But this relates very much on what we're talking about and how as detain ended in the final phase of the Cold War really heated up you know this sort of punitive view of the Vermeck and of the Germans as a people

just could no longer be abided that's um I mean it's just like a fascinating kind of like period piece about what war planter types were thinking and Stofley was a really pretty smart guy um

and who grasped political and historical the way he grasped the philosophy of history and political theory in a way mostly military types don't but he he also was a a very brilliant like you know military writer but um yeah that's uh

I'm gonna ask to wrap it um yeah you want to end it and uh get plugs and get out of here yeah yeah and I'll in part three I'll uh I'll take up I know people, because they've been asking me, they've been asked me what, if any relationship there is between, like, Nolte and, like, some of these guys I mentioned, like David Irving, like Fred Leiker,

like even Zundel, people think I'm too punitive on what that's, we'll get into the kind of revisionism generally, and like, Nolte's sort of, like, place in it. In the third episode, yeah, you can, you can always find me on Twitter, or not always, I mean, I think, I think they've gotten tired of, like,

nuking me there. It's a real capital REL underscore number seven HMAS 7777. My stuff stack has been popping a lot lately. I really appreciate that. People are very generous in signing up and throwing me a lot of love, not just in the form of like subscriptions and donations, but you know, send me encouraging emails and stuff. And I actually really do appreciate that. I mean, I'm not trying to sound like some sentimental swab, but you know, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I feel very mood to get that kind of love from people. You can always find my content at my website.

It's number seven, H-O-M-A-S-77.com. I'm on T-Gram. I'm on Instagram. You know, I'm here there. So you can each you'll find. All right. So part three. Thank you very much, Thomas.

I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekineiro show. Thomas is here again, and we're going to get into part. Part 3 of Thomas's talk about Ernst Nolte. How you doing, Thomas? I'm doing very well. Thanks for hosting me. Of course.

What I want to get into a bit today, I want to address some things that people have been asking over email and things, which is great. There's been a tremendous amount of feedback on this series. And I was pleasantly surprised by that. It's something of a heady topic. I'm not suggesting that people aren't smart enough to comprehend it. It's just that frankly, not like, you know, deep diving into political philosophy

and sort of the history of ideas in a very abstract capacity. That's not something that, you know, a great number of people are taken in by. And I totally understand that. But it's essential to understanding. the development of of concrete political realities in the 20th century. And if you want to understand our present and its nuances therein, you've got to understand these things as legacy structures and legacy phenomenon of the 20th century, not just because, as we've talked about,

there's been a basic stagnation in America and, you know, the former West. Even if that were not the case, even if there was an authentic dynamism to American government, and even if there had been, you know, a truly forward-looking and far-reaching and workable sort of a path to, forward in policy terms after the collapse the interdermic border. I'm thinking in terms of what Mr. Nixon wrote about

in his final years and as well as kind of the Bush Baker model. I'm not suggesting people should look at that as some ideal model or something, but there was like a dynamism to it and it was relevant to post-Cold War realities.

Even if there was even if there was something like that extent, you know, in terms of intellectual occurrence, as well as political will and conceptual ambition, this would still be informed almost entirely by, you know, 20th century structures, phenomenon, relationships. Like, different as things are today. And much as I agree with people, including Mr. Musk, who say that, historical time is speeding up on the technology that is 100% true um so today I want to get into some of these things and what's key to understanding about Nolte and

German idealism generally you know people especially anglophone types who have are marinated with a certain disdain for continental philosophy. Okay, and then it's just a fact. There's a tendency to dismiss these things as well. That's so much sophistry, you know, that's, that's just, you know, a not particularly lucid interpretation of political realities, you know, that extrapolates the musings of closer intellectuals to populations at scale. It's the wrong way to look at it. even if you don't accept the posthalist ontological and otherwise of hegel of of noelty of of heidegger even if this is nothing more than a conceptual horizon that became a kind of self-fulfilling prophecy in terms of how it shaped the european political mind that's nonetheless a causal variable that is is isn't arguably just positive of outcomes, okay? I take it a step further, obviously. I mean, I think it's clear to everybody that, you know, I'm very much a Hegelian. I think Ernst Nolte was the most profound historical thinker and writer of the 20th century.

But the way I understand German idealism is it's some people who deal in studies of consciousness and things will be familiar with the anthropic principle this is extraordinarily complicated on its own terms but we can't talk about political realities without talking about events within

the human mind okay it's not like there's some it's not like there's some actual political reality remote from human psychology that is existing outside of our purview or something. Okay, we're not talking about astronomical phenomenon. I'm not talking about, you know, events of a natural scientific, you know, nature, obviously.

You know, so that renders that that that renders, the study of political philosophy unique, okay, because you can't you can't do away with mind as a prime move on, okay, even if you reject the partial to somebody like Nolte. And I come back to this again and again.

All right. But it's also, to understand the entirety of the war, you know, this zeitgeist was the cause of the war, okay? And there was obviously like concrete variables

relating to things like war technology and capabilities they're in that upset balances of power. It had basically been constants since 1648 or so. There was economic realities that

you know affected and impacted the ability to manage populations at scale that in turn you know, were decisive in regards, you know, the capacity to mobilize those aforementioned populations, which in turn, you know, had a tremendous impact on the perception of states engaged in a hard power competition. That goes about saying. But all of these things, it key points of decision, as well as in terms of broad conceptual horizon

of what the end game of these political ambitions were can only be understood in terms of zeitgois. And the way that practical transcendence was changing the way humans live their lives and identify themselves and quite literally how they lived and died, nobody was more insinuated into that modality of thought than hit off Hitler. Okay.

I'm going to begin a series on this book in the next week. This is an incredibly balzy book, and it was kind of underneath the radar. It's basically a breakdown of Hitler's second book, the secret book. And what Sims emphasizes is that Hitler very well understood, the situation geostrategically as well as historically. And I've always made the point before that Hitler's primary op

was Franklin Roosevelt, not Stalin. Sims hammers that point home absolutely. Okay. And in terms of Germany's mobilization paradigm, in terms of the technologies Hitler emphasized, in terms of his entire timetable,

tactical and strategic from September 1939 until December 1941 was oriented towards facilitating Germany's ability to defend against a massive assault by the United States that can't be that can't be over-emphasized.

Anybody who denies it is not in the game. However, what was happening to European peoples and what was threatening to render the culture extinct was uh

what was um what was what was uh was uh was purely conceptual okay and it uh

it's um the uh the uh, spherpunct of that devastating idea or psychological tendency was was Bolshevism.

You know, Bolshevism wasn't just a way of ordering labor. You know, it wasn't just a matter of depriving people of certain freedoms, you know, that they'd become a bitch way to do. It wasn't just a question of breaking down traditional modalities of order, you know, whether we're talking about, you know, within the family unit or, you know, in terms of how, you know, the races or ethnic populations relate to one another or the way you know the sexes you know kind of relate to one another in um as regards um you know duties and responsibilities and things

in ontological terms it was it was sharing the bases of of of identity and when you remove people from any identitarian poll stars when you literally rip them out of history they're no longer living as human beings in basic terms. And despite what people claim, and Sims emphasizes this too, Hitler did not claim that Europeans are some master race. Quite the contrary. Hitler said Germany's racial stock has precipitously declined since the 30 years' war. He looked at that as the shattering event, okay, that Germany never really recovered from.

He said that the best European stock was in England, and their leadership cast basically was able to dominate a good portion of the planet as well as preside over a divided society that had no kind of like organic like national underpinning you know

and they managed to do this with like a combination of of tremendous foresight you know unrestrained ruthlessness and you know an ability to sort of

manipulate subjugated cultures in a way that incentivized cooperation, but also quite literally rendering like the best that those cultures could provide to this, you know,

imperial whole. Hitler further said that the best European stock had emigrated to America. You know, so Hitler's like, where basically left with like this kind of like shattered remnant of what's what was potentially you know like a like like a master race okay and thus was all the more critical germany would like literally die um from this onslaught of of uh of suicidal zeitist for lack of a better way to characterize it okay

Now, this wasn't just, like, Hillary actually believed this, okay? This wasn't, I mean, this wasn't just, you know, stuff fit for the bully pulpit. Or, you know, before the Angel Socialist had anything approaching a bully pulpit, this wasn't just, you know, these weren't just like scare concepts or, or some kind of nightmare scenario to bring ignorant people to polls out of fear or something like that. the degree which communism in practice, like literally the practice of communism, Marxist-Leninism,

it can only exist, let alone endure and perpetuate itself if it annihilates all competing conceptual horizons. You've got to deprive people the ability to conceptualize some alternative ontology. There's no other ideology like that.

That's one of the reasons that's misplaced when we talked about an earlier episode this kind of simpleton's paradigm that's more during the Cold War of, oh, there's totalitarianism and then there's democracy.

Something like Franco's Spain had nothing in common with the Soviet Union, a revolutionary communism generally, nor did some tin-pot dictatorship in the third world. Regimes like that forcing compliance or enforcing supervisual compliance

by use of the penal apparatus or some or some kind of you know use of military force as an extrajudicial means of

punishing people and, you know, as a spectacle, that communism's not interested in that for its own terms. One of the things, I think in some ways is a very overrated writer, but Orwell captured the true essence of

Marxist Leninism in 1984. And that's exactly what the book's about. It's not about totalitarianism or fascism or government generally. It is about Marxist Leninism. when O'Brien says, I need you to love Big Brother. I don't, you know, I'm not interested in superficial compliance. I'm not interested in forcing you to do things.

You know, in fact, quite the contrary. You know, I need you to not be able to conceive of anything other than prostrating yourself in kind of like odd and terrified reverence of this megalithic state. you know and not only do you know the reason why you don't resist it isn't out of terror it's because you can't even conceptualize resisting it it's like resisting god okay and probably the best example of this was in Romania immediately after the war there's um i can't remember his name now but there was a romanian orthodox priest who when somebody who's made a saint, are they beatified? Is that the term?

Okay, I believe he was beatified. Yeah, for his resistance to the communist. But there was this, what came to be known as the Patesti. I'm butchering that pronunciation, again, forgive me, the Patzzi prison experiments. Okay, Patzzi Prison. Now, Romania is a fascinating example. because

Shuskosku was he was viewed kind of in the west of this bizarre eccentric obviously, you know, him and his wife were similarly executed on live television and that was shocking like the thing we've talked about before.

You know, as a teenager, seeing that on, this was long before a live league and anything like three guys, one hammer or any of this horrible stuff that you can, anybody can see on the internet. And,

but I mean, obviously it's the only, violent overthrow of an East Block regime. But, you know, for all practical purposes, Romania had seceded from Warsaw Pact. You know, Chusescu himself, he negotiated with Kennedy to remove Romania from the SIOP target list in a nuclear war.

But in terms of, despite kind of like seceding entirely, from Velt Politique. Romania kind of perfected Marce's Leninism as regards its internal situation. I mean, Purists will say, well, it was a personality cult, but that's not what I'm talking about. Most of the detainees at

Potesti prison were men who served in the Iron Guard. You know, they were they were um you know Ostr front veterans who you know were um

company level officers are higher they were priests who hadn't done anything wrong I mean even of a you know political nature and they were psychologically tortured according to this

phased paradigm um the first phase going to involve this kind of endless interrogation over days and weeks with torture

liberally applied under the auspices of revealing intimate details this was called external unmasking but the interrogators I mean they obviously that any kind of anything relating to somebody's intimate

moral or sexual behavior they'd find that valuable to exploit against them. But this wasn't, this wasn't the purpose of, of external unmasking. They'd force people to do things like, you know, they'd say, you know, it's coming to our attention that, you know, like, your father was actually like a traitor, you know, and, or like, you know, it's, you were actually born a bastard, you know, and we've, we've discovered this. Or like, you know, your sister was a prostitute, you know, and she had many men, you know, and we, we've talked to men who, you know, who, you know, who, you know, who, we've talked to men who, you know, who, you know, who, who, we've, we've talked to. and in relations with her for money. And they'd insist on this over and over and over and over again.

And, you know, they torture people into signing confessions and stuff that seems apparently meaningless from a political perspective. But victims subsequently attested that you start losing touch with reality under these conditions. And you start wondering, you know, like, is that actually true? true. You know what I mean? I'm sure people will say like, well, that would never happen to me. Very, very strange things happen when people are incarcerated. And add to that, literal torture. It doesn't even have to be incarceration. I've witnessed people in my own life who went to group therapy and started adopting stories that they heard other people tell as their own.

And they probably believe it. Yeah. And 100% believe it. It's the human mind is, I don't know what that is. It's hard for me to understand that, but I've seen it. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, you're a worldly guy. And, I mean, obviously, I mean, frankly, you spend a fair amount of time with matters of the human psyche.

Because it relates to, you know, what. our mutual emphasis and things. But yeah, it, you know, the second, the second phase was called like internal unmasking. Now, this was us, at least nominally. It was the torture slash interrogator. He demanded to know what guards or trustees or other interrogators

had been lenient with the subject. So basically, you know, and say like, you know, basically like, you know, I, no, in this perverse way, you know, it's a way of trying to literally create, like, Stockholm syndrome or to generate those sorts of misplaced sympathies in the mind of the victim. you know

so it came to the you know the victim when in some cases it began to look at his torture as truly benevolent you know because even if it was totally a charade

you know the fact that he would disclose you know persons who'd shown him leniency and then he'd be rewarded with you know maybe if he'd been subjected to a starvation diet, he'd be rewarded with food or something, or even just, you know, the appearance of, of affection. Like perversal it sounds, you know, people do need affection,

or approval in some basic sense. And somebody who's been utterly destroyed, whose internal constitution has been destroyed by a deliberate and purposeful. you know, regime of torture, even the approval of their torture, you know, who's cast himself in some of a fatherly role. You know, you see the police do this too. And it was been subject to police interrogation. Obviously, it's not nearly this extreme, okay? But that's basically what good cop, bad cop is and some very dumbed down and obviously much less insidious and and literally figuratively violent sense.

It's the the third stage was in the third phase it was this it was this kind of public humiliation ritual. If the person was

you know if they were if they were a priest or a or a layperson in the other the other than church you know the interrogator would do something like laying out a crucifix and like demanding the urineate on it

you know if it was a political partisan or like a former like Vermeck officer or Iron Guard revolutionary you know they might like force him to like drink urine or like literally like lick the boots of his interrogator or something or like you know claim to have engaged in

in like disgusting sexual acts or something. You know, in this, like, Michael Joan was not specifically about this, in this context, but, you know, he's talked about how part of the subtext of the kind of normalization of pornography is the kind of like assault, the intimate world core of the person,

you know, and, and rip away any kind of private um and any kind of truly like private um boundaries they have you know and that that's a real thing too you know um

but this was um you know these uh people were people were permanently and profoundly damaged by this I mean beyond the obvious I mean like you say you don't the things people think they take for granted

they they no longer can like they're not they're not capable of it. I'm not talking about trust in authority in some basic way. I mean, like, they're not fully human anymore.

There's no fault of their own, obviously, but it this guy in Robert Graves is, you know, an Englishman of letters type of, you know, like a great war veteran. His memoir

was called goodbye to all that. Robert Conquest cited him, and for comparative purposes, in his book on a communist megicide, Graves was talking about the experience at the front, okay, during World War I. And he said that, he said, Graves said that like the squalor and danger of the front lines, being under constant bombardment, you know, living in filth. he said that like young officers he said they said after after several weeks they'd begin to deteriorate a little he's like after six months he's like most men were basically our right but they were starting to show cracks okay is after nine or ten months these guys became a drag on fellow officers and NCOs you know like they were no longer thinking clearly you know they

they they uh they they they they become dessocialized only to constant anxiety you know

he'd say after a year or 15 months to continue his service he said even like the most robust and healthy junior officer would basically be useless you know he was no longer fit for command you know

at best you know only to his experience and whatnot, you know, if he still had the nerve and the gumption for direct action, you know, he might be able to utilize and like the equivalent of a stormtroop role, but in a command role, not even close. He said the real tragedy, though, he said guys over the age of about 30 or 35, and especially over 40. He said that these guys had less resistance. You know, and in his estimation, it's because they had, you know, decades of normal life to compare

their current situation to. He said, officers over 40, he said at the six months mark, almost unfailingly became, you know, obvious alcoholics. You know, they'd only be able to, you know, assuming they survived multiple assault operations. they could only function if they were totally drunk he said that they started seeming you know completely like he said they started

seeming literally you know like in a state of shock at all times you know he said some of them lost their ability to communicate in basic terms like their ability to their command of language and left them you know and Conquist says that

something that developed in Soviet society, especially after about 1936 to 38, from about 936, 98 onward until about 957. He said it was something, he said it was something completely comparable, particularly guys who were in roles that were somewhat coveted, where they were in contact with commissars at all times and responsible for their people, but they weren't protected by, you know, the largesse or the patronage of party men. Like a good example. would be, you know, like a doctor at a hospital, you know, who, like a surgeon, who was responsible for, you know, more junior doctors and nurses, obviously, or like a professor of geology, you know, or like a guy who worked at one of the design bureaus, you know, like overseeing other engineers, you know, he'd be under constant pressure of the commissars, you know, he, and so his whole family would constantly be under surveillance. He'd be subjected to things like, you know, when people he worked closely with or taken away and either executed summarily or sentenced to the death camp system,

he'd be directed to sign a statement saying that he fully approved of these measures against people who were engaged in counter-religionary activities, regardless of his personal feelings about them. And like over time, this just broke people down, you know. And the workers and peasants who supposedly the Soviet state was, directly was oriented towards, you know, like, elevating. You know, these people, a huge amount of them,

and we'll get into some of these figures in a minute, had cycled through the forced labor system, and they began acting, they began behaving like convicts, you know, in all the pathological ways that, you know, people who are in and out of the prison system do. You know, and even if they, didn't have, you know, pathologies going in, despite being branded as criminals. They certainly had them when they were released. And that's what, I mean, that's what's unique about

Sovietism and that's what's unique about communism, you know, and the people who, I mean, it'd be easy for, it's easier people to say like, oh, well, that's their own fault. You know, why weren't their cadres of people who were cultivating resistance to this, you know, to this regime, they were all dead. They were slaughtered. The Soviet slaughtered 10 million people by the time before a shot was fired

in the World War. And that's not only his old point. The people were capable of harboring a conceptual vista of some alternative system. they were they were they were they were killed

categorically regardless of age sex overall health national origin because they were the standard even if they weren't the standard bearers the enemy idea you know they they weren't malleable in the way that they needed to be you know the Camero Rouge actually perfected this that's what year zero is you know

left revisionists who like sartraub who actually understood marcus's leninism you know they were constantly trying to extricate the commuterge experience from revolutionary communism as like a partial into itself there's some bizarre outlier this is an example of oriental barbarism you know this has nothing to do with with with with rational state behavior you know there's nothing we can extrapolate from that you knew that that was not true okay um aside from the kind of adivistic mythologies that you know the Khmer Rouge threw in to kind of woo the the the peasantry towards their perspective and you know and whatever like racial and mythologies that were emphasized

when they were fighting the Vietnamese like that notwithstanding Paul Pot was actually a very learned man and what he aside in the fact that you know Cambodia Democratic Campuchia as it was so

dubbed it was a bad water that was devoid of the pre-arguised industry to facilitate the realization of true communism in political terms he was absolutely a pure communist and that's what's required in order to facilitate its realization

it's not an outlier in the least and people who are honest like Orthodox Marxists who'd remained in you know, Moscow adjacent after the

after, you know, the 1960 schism they, it's subtle, but it's there. Like, they acknowledge that. I find this fascinating. But not for the reason something like to think. Nah, not merely so I can wave it around to some, you know, gotcha. Like I, obviously it's like grotesque people think that way,

but it's, it's entirely consistent with the overall paradigm. I mean, it would be dishonest for anyone who describes that perspective to claim otherwise.

But, you know, the end result, as in all these point, too, when you're talking about these monumental ideas, you know, you can't just look at them as historical contingencies. You've got to look at them as

not just as causal um as ultimate causal variables in and of themselves but as um phenomena that uh

that that but phenomena that um endure until their full realization or until they are annihilated

because the the because the because the barriers of the idea are annihilated, the mentioned material of it. The purpose of communism is to realize communism. It's not just to alleviate tensions inherent to, you know, opposing classes amidst historical of evil. It's not just a way to, you know, kind of placate a radicalized proletariat, you know, in the short

term and until you know some sort of new structure that his more equitable outcomes can be realized like the point of it quite literally is it's self-contained realization and um the end result of

the communist enterprise is the eradication of culture and that was the great horror in the minds of all who opposed it And, you know, like I said, one of the only meaningful things in absolute terms you can take from Mind Kampf is when Hitler says that a Bolshevized planet is a planet without culture where all men, you know, live basically as animals with the power of speech, you know, and the earth is, uh, the, the earth is, is basically this, you know, this ball of mud, like, spinning through the void with no with no higher life you know um everything you associate with culture

the front of the comparatively prosaic the most profound no longer exists you know it's it's the world as labor you know um there is no past there's no future there's only the present and you know the realization of work quotas or you know the homogenization of life such that it's rendered indistinguishable but for you know geographic location which anymore has no meaning other than you know the signature on a map and um that much as people might have misanthrobic fantasies

about earth without people I think those actually like some corny show like decades ago it was like earth without people or like the world without man and it was um I think it was not discovery or something. Like, I forgive the tangent. And it was,

um, you know, there was these like CGI rendered landscapes where, uh, you know, like skyscrapers are all overgrown and, and just like animals or have free rain and there's no more man to, you know, a corrupt like the,

the pure sanity of nature or something. But that, you know, people have this idea that somehow like without, like, without the human mind to perceive things, these things may well as not exist. You know, I'm not sure without saying, but it's, I guess it's like the way people, like imagine, like, what their own funeral would look like, is if they'd have some kind of vantage point or something, you know,

and in the terms you would, you know, as in, you know, as a living human with, you know, optic nerves and things. but um let me you you said that the purpose of communism is its realization what's the purpose of national socialism the posterity of the of the vogue and more immediately that's what i'm going to get into in uh this pod series i'm going to do, the regeneration of the European form of life to meet the challenges of the 21st century, you know, to render its mentioned material competitive, at least able to survive onslaught by what Hitler identified as, you know, kind of like the nascent Anglo-Saxon hegemony or hegemon. Hitler accurately,

that's another thing about the Sims book that I think needs to be emphasized. Hitler was incredibly, he knew exactly what was underway in terms of the strategic historical situation. And the second book, he makes the point that America contains about fully 50% of the world's

actual capital, resources. You know, he says that once fully mobilized, America will be unstoppable. He said it'll be unlike any hegemon the world's ever seen. And he said that, you know, unless, um, unless some sort of total regeneration occurs in Europe, um, he wasn't talking in some kind of strassarist notion. of, you know, like a United States of Europe, like, literally, like, a paling genetic revival of the race. You know, and he had, Hitler had no use for petted nationalism, but his idea of a European superpower was very different than what people like the Strasse were suggested, is my point. But he said that, you know, unless this happens, assuming that, assuming Germany could fend off a Soviet assault, which at present, then present being, you know, 93, it could not.

But he said even if it could, he said that Europe would basically become, you know, the battleground between the United States and the Soviet Union for world hegemony, which is exactly what happened. And he said that, you know, the danger of the Soviet Union is the danger that's always been presented by Europe, which is essentially an indefensible peninsula, you know, populated by a world minority of people. peoples facing uh without without any without any you know there's no sahara desert in europe there's no sort of like natural rampart you know um there the you know the immediate physical threat to european civilization is the billion strong hordes of the of the barbarian east you know but he said that this is um you know the uh you know the um you know the um you know the um you know the um the graver, like absolute, like literally global threat is America, you know, because it's a complete, because it's completely, it completely like neutralizes everything people had there to part

take it for granted about hard power and the capacity to Marshall Capital and the serves of hard power. How he viewed the American people as nuanced. And fascinatingly, and Sims gets into this too, despite this kind of like, like,

this ongoing kind of liberal fixation with like, oh, Hitler was a confederate and he loved slavery and hated black people. Heller said almost nothing about black people, other than that he said that transplanting you know, 100,000, of African slaves to the new world he said was he said was a something that

reminiscent of an artifact of a barbaric civilization and he said it was beneath America to do that and totally unnecessary you know he admired the kind of northern industrial might of the Union he said that you know, the cream of German racial stock the tune of 5.9 million people over a few centuries had emirated to America. He's like, these people are the backbone

of American power. You know, um, and he said that, uh, you know, some of the best of, of, uh, of, uh, of the Anglophone leadership cast that sort of like assimilated them into their own ranks.

Like he's basically saying, like, this is a recipe for utterly, like, unstoppable power and, like, full spectrum dominance, like, economic, military, cultural, in every conceivable way. You know, but he said that there's, like, an underlying

rootlessness there that's very much been co-opted, you know, by a Jewish, modernist perspective. This is different than the threat it's different but related in terms of a constellation of of of um of zeitgeist related factors like writ large it's different than you know the soviet threat but it's derived from the same it's derived

from the same historical crisis okay um and he makes the point in the second book that it's not accidental that you know Americanism and Sovietism will like find common cause for limited purposes because they're not actually Manichaean opposites. There's a reconcilable differences between them. You know he said given conditions of parity

they destroy each other but they're not like mortal enemies or something you know in absolute terms and um but that's I didn't mean to go so far like a field but it um the uh

what I did want to get a little bit into, but if I'm jumping around a bit, a lot of people over, over email and whatnot, they've been asking in comparative terms about, like, to what degree, like, the Soviet Union had, like, a camp system. And I make the point, and I'm relying on Robert Conquest for this. The Soviets had a death camp system writ large. Its purpose was to categorically exterminate people. there were there were hundreds of these camps purpose towards that end in the frozen

you know tundra of uh what was the Soviet far east this is the territory I mean for people came to like geology and you know that like earth science and stuff I mean this is

this is literally you know like the Ice Age, you know, like World Island. You know, this is where the, this is the, this is where the polar bear develops. This is the, this is where mammoths stalked the land,

you know, until 50,000 years ago or whatever. You know, conquest called it an empire of camps that existed from 1931 until approximately 1957. And I mean, the scale of the scale of, this in 1930, mid-1930

as the security apparatus was sort of consolidating and leaving behind the revolutionary phase and developing into a like a true kind of penal system and extermination system

to categorically manipulate population outcomes in mortal terms. Um, by that point, um, the OGPU was the precursor to the NKVB, which was the precursor to the KGB. It was constantly reconstituting itself in these days, which I believe, uh, was very purposeful to make it difficult to identify what spheres of responsibility were. And the, I mean, the, the communists were singularly obsessed with. manipulating the historical record for reasons that are obvious I mean we've been

talking about this past hour but um you know this was uh I mean Stalin famously literally you know like would redact people from the record you know only photographic evidence of them but one of the reasons why I mean any rigorous historian real like it's if I understand that if anything the the death toll presented even by rigorous revisionist like conquest is understated, but superficially, um,

this kind of a constant manipulation of vernacular and nomenclature provided, um, provided the Soviets with an alibi. And, and they're a story of apologists today in, in some sense, despite the ubiquity of information that it,

it has the same function. But what's an arguable is that by mid-1930, there's approximately 140,000 prisoners already in these camps run by the GPU. Initially, these sort of huge labor projects, the first of which was digging a canal from connecting the White Sea to the Baltic, which for perspective, this alone required well over 100,000 laborers, okay? What better way to avail a labor pool than, you know, to capture tens of thousands of able-bodied men, you know, who either are categorized as, you know, political unreliables or members of ethnic groups that have been, you know, determined to be, you know, unassimilable or a resistant to, you know, the, you know, the kind of de-ethnification of peoples.

You know, you can brand these men criminals. And then, you know, you can essentially work them to death on these, on these massive public work projects, you know, as slaves, literally. Even worse, I mean, they're expendables, you know. You don't work your slaves to death, you know. if um under you know under ordinary conditions of

a chattel slavery but um from 1930 onward the number of people receiving some kind of custodial sentence just astronomically rose um in 1920 there was somewhere between 50 and 60,000 people

who were sentenced by the OGPU a year later, there was over 200,000. But in 1931, it was 1,230,000. I mean, this is astronomical, okay? And we're talking about, you know, we're not talking about a matter of decades. We're talking about the span of a year. You know, the camp, the population in these camps, you know, labor camps, camps, you know, increasing five-fold, over, you know, a million people.

There was, within this far eastern camp system, there was between 100 and 160 camps at any given time. It's absolutely dwarfs the camp system of the Third Reich. I mean, absolutely dwarfs it. Even if you accept at face value, everything alleged at Nuremberg, you know, it's, um, It's comparing an ant to an elephant. The OGPU further, in 1932, absorbed 700 small penal colonies and jails and prisons, you know, where the people have been serving sentences from anything from petty theft to homicide. These camps and prisons have formerly been run by what's called the People's Commissariat of Judges.

justice and the OGPU declared that you know these were being inefficiently administered so they absorbed you know what amounted to the conventional you know prison population and began working these people to death you know on these public works projects on January 1st in New Year's Day 935 this newly unified system according to Soviet records there was nine hundred thousand prisoners in it over seven thousand were in work camps and 240,000 or in work colonies now mind you and reading between the lines and Congress made this point there was these discrete smaller units and there's no explanation for why

they were so organized presumably that's where actual dangerous criminals were housed, but everybody else. The overwhelming majority had done nothing at all wrong. But everything in the Soviet Union under what was called Article 58, which was this catch-all penal law, absenteeism from work was a crime, destroying Soviet property was a crime, hooliganism, which translates approximately to disorderly conduct. That was a crime.

you know so that's one of the reasons why I get really really irritated when people who some of them don't know any better I guess even in our own circles like talk about they refer to people as criminals I'm like don't I'm like don't start doing that okay um I mean maybe I feel strong about this considering my own background but um you've lost your kind of groundedness when you started calling people criminals or some categorical element okay um but um you know for perspective this was that this this this this was well known you know one of the things people at attack nalti and his thesis claiming like oh nobody knew it was underway in the soviet union the soviet union was a nascent superpower

and this was it was nothing like today but um film was ubiquitous um there was an international newswire you know um it sounded like moscow was thousands of miles away from europe this was well known you know um people um and people uh these cadres who had fought in bavaria you know um um um And in the Baltic, against the Free Corps, I mean, these people would have been trained in the Soviet Union. You know, the, furthermore, you know, by 1936, there was a truly international proxy conflict in Spain. You know, this idea that information somehow was quarantined, you know, and didn't cross national frontiers. I mean, that's laughable. You know, it's, um, this was.

this is common knowledge you know um and plus i mean how exactly you know 100,000 of people over the course of the decade millions of people were categorically disappearing you think people weren't noticing that

you know upon the Soviet assault on Poland you know a huge number about a quarter million polls disappeared in months you know not just because i mean the Russians, there was, um, there was ethnic hostility, um, between the Russians and Poles.

Anyway, that was arguably as severe as that between, you know, the Germans and the Poles, or the Poles or the Jews or the Germans and the Jews. But, um, you know, you think, uh, people, people weren't noticing that, you know, um, the tens of thousands of Poles were just disappearing. their entire officer corps just disappeared the entire like Warsaw clergy just disappeared I mean like but I'm not trying to be obtuse or like making out like it's funny or something

or every flipping rather about um these kinds of human tragedies but um it's it's like a non argument it's not it's it's it's not it's it's not its face it's laughable but um the uh you know I I emphasize this too

I mean again I'm the first person I make the point that it's not you know again like historical revisionism is not some kind of numbers game but because what is in contention

is the degree of attrition in comparative terms and this really was not just the subtext but kind of the part of the core controversy of the historical strikes I want to people that contemplate again the degree

to which the the Soviet camp apparatus utterly dwarfed that of the German Reich and like Nolte said other than homicidal gas chambers that degree to which they were employed as arguable I don't want to get into that in this

series not because I'm afraid to or something reverse to we can talk about Fred Leichter and Robert Farrison and the entire controversy if people want to ought to, but that's, but the point is, even if you accept all that at face value, every single thing that the Third Reich did was preceded by the Soviet Union, with the exception of homicidal gas chambers employed against civilian populations. So the entire kind of notion

of, oh, Sunderweig led to this unique and intractable evil. This look at, you know, look at the Third Reich, this regime that existed for this whole purpose of realizing a homicidal conspiracy. I mean, it's laughable. I mean, it's there's nothing funny about it, but it's

preposterous, rather. That's about, um, this, I got some more stuff to say about this, but I don't want to, I would you be agreeable or amenable? Um, if we

did a part four about we fielded questions from subscribers and I could just kind of tie up loose ends, man. I don't want to tell you your business with content. Okay, yeah, I appreciate that, man. And I hope this wasn't too like skaters shot.

But yeah, I prefer that, man. Okay. Yeah, we'll do that. We'll schedule that. Do your plugs and we'll end this. You can always find me on my website. It's Thomas 777.com. number seven HMAS 777.com

you can find me on Twitter it's at Real Thomas at Capital RieAL underscore number seven HMAS 7777 I'm on Instagram

my main my main form is substack. That's we can find my long form stuff and um the podcast and um you can find me on youtube it's at thomas tv also excuse me all this stuff links from my website all this have links from substack um seeking each you'll find I'm uh I um I um I dropped a video sit rep today on my sub stack not because I love hearing myself talk but I felt I over the subscribers an explanation for kind of where we're going with things um so i if you are a subscriber please um check that out um i take this very seriously and very personally and i i do not take

granted the the love and support i get from all you people it's it's tremendous okay um but that's that's all i got yeah same we have some great people on our So, thank you, Thomas. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano show. Hey, Thomas, how are you doing? I don't know. Well, that's what we're hosting me. Yeah.

Are we going to finish up on NOLTI today? Yeah, I wanted to talk about current events a little bit. I mean, not just for their own state, but how they relate to, how they relate to know he's model of their paradigm of historicism know what he said and something that I think should have been

more deeply controversial not should have in the sense I think that what he said was was wrong in any way but it goes to show you that as kind of anglophone academia has eclipsed the continent

you know people don't really pay attention to continental philosophy and the way that they do you know kind of anglophone treatments of ethics and things you know both in concrete

terms as applied to the world situation at any given moment but also in more abstract terms you know postulating you know what is a legitimate active state you know what is permissible under condition of war, things like that.

Something I think was more, at least more sweeping in terms of what was being asserted than what was postulated during the historical strike. It was an oldie's 1991 book. It was a history

of the 20th century. Okay. From essentially a right Hegelian perspective. And specifically specifically talked about how the common nucleus of facts and historical

phenomenon gave rise to three totally abnormal political cultures and that was the Soviet Union, the Third Reich, and Israel. And a lot of people in this country, not so much in Europe, for reasons that should be obvious,

but a lot of people misunderstand what Israel is. Like I'm not saying this, I'm speaking in purely objective terms, not at all punitively I think they view Israel like they do like the independent state of Croatia or something or like they view you know even Ukraine like some kind of they think oh a bunch of a bunch of Jewish people lived in the Middle East and decided they wanted their own state that's not how it developed and it's also

why there's tensions between you know the ruling Likud regime contra you know who the people they call the ultra-Orthodox as well as others like Zionism isn't just this organic movement of, you know, like nationalist-minded Jewish people, indigenous to the Middle East. It was very much a European ideology that came out of, you know, born of sort of like the intellectual culture of people whose origins were in this, were in the pale settlement, you know, and who found their way kind of, you know, far and wide in European urban centers and, and, and, and intellectual, borders, you know, whether you're talking about, you know, Minsk or Berlin or Warsaw, or Zagreb, or wherever. But the whole idea was that for the Jewish people to survive, like, as a race. And again, this is, you know, very much grounded in the kind of 20th century sensibility of people's heritage being, you know, born of blood and material quantities. You know, the idea was, well, the Jewish people need to stop being this kind of,

you know, they need to stop being this kind of nation without a country. We need a national state. You know, we need that that guards, you know, Jewish racial blood at all costs. You know, it's got to, it's got to be premised on this kind of like communitarian, you know, like military socialism.

You know, it's got to it's got to basically inundate people and it's kind of new way of thinking, you know, that Jews aren't. habituated due owing to owing to their kind of peculiar heritage not like politically

I mean you know in their kinds of modes of life and that's why for example you know and again I'm not I'm not saying this punitively like why why is why do people speak Hebrew with Israel that'd be like if people like me said we're suddenly decided we're going to start like writing in Viking runes

like why don't they speak Aramaic you know like why why do they speak like Yiddish or even or even you know whatever dialogue like the German was common to was common to the Jewish ghetto like why Hebrew you know like it's very much this is very much a kind of mythology it's like a view of themselves okay and I'm not even saying that um like and Zionism go ahead even um a lot of scholars point to the fact that the Hebrew really wasn't even spoken amongst Jews that it was resurrected in the late 19th century because, you know, if you're going to have a people, you have to have a language.

No, exactly. And so that was, yeah, exactly. That's exactly it. So, I mean, it, and again, too, I mean, there's Zionists, you know, like a Heim Weissman. They were self-conscious to this. It's not like they were pretending it was something else. But this, this kind of revolutionary sort of, you know, like, top-down restructuring of the Jewish form of life. you know

that's very much abhorren again of the same of the same historical um historically driven ideological phenomena that that

um gave rise to you know Marxist Leninism and national socialism you know and that's one of the reasons Israel is anachronistic okay and I don't want to go too far afield

but I mean I'm writing some long form stuff right now about what I call the German Cold War. You know, the DDR, they pursued an independent course in a lot of ways. I mean, very different than that, pursued by, you know, Chusiscus, Romania, or like, Tiosugoslavia. Like, they were 110% in the Warsaw camp. And, but, you know, they, they were, they were kind of like more of a vanguard of the Stalinist, perspective than even the Soviet Union was. And

kind of fascinatingly and ironically as Gorbachev started implementing peristrike, like the socialist unity party and the DDR started banning Soviet publications that they considered to be like revisionist and not adequately

orthodox in terms of the ideological line they told. But one of the big the DDR, like the Cubans, they pursued this aggressive revolutionary foreign policy overseas. You know, and modern Syria is very much, very much owes to East German assistance and development. Like everything from like their military doctrine to their kind of like mixed economy to, you know, their, to the kind of nomenclature of that the Syrian

Ba'ath party, which was very different than the Iraqi Ba'ath Party. I mean, that's one of the reasons why they went to war with Saddam's Iraq in 91. But they were very much in ways in some critical power political ways you know the progeny of East Germany and the East Germans really targeted Israel okay like that's indisputable now of course the if you read stuff from the era and even some of these economic articles about you know Cold War anti-Semitism like there are people like the Bader Meinhof faction like they praised the like the execution of the Israeli athletes at Munich, you know, like the Japanese army faction,

like they assaulted, you know, they assaulted the Israeli airport and stuff. And I can't remember his name, but one of the guys who, uh, he wasn't a direct action operator, but he was kind of the court intellectual of, uh, of the Bader Meinhauf crew. he would openly call he would openly call Israeli's like Yudnishvine like literally Jewish pigs and like that was that was like unthinkable it would be unthinkable to talk about like any other

population that way like in East Germany you know but so there's something I mean obviously I mean I basically I basically accept 100% like Yaki's paradigm about what happened in the Cold War and

and how Zionism was the was the final catalyst to put you know the eastern block and and the Israelis and arguably the Jews as a people you know like on an enemy footing but it um but you know the uh one of the things that was keeping Israel alive in terms of its raison d'etre but also in practical terms its sort of conceptual existence was the cold war one of the reasons why israel's having the problems it is now it's not wokeism or what people seem to think you know like and like these kind of commentary circles. It's not because people suddenly have developed some like, you know, quote-gold liberal idea about Palestine and racism or something.

I mean, there might be some aspect of that, but, you know, nothing's changed in that regard. It's not like suddenly people are aware of the racial dynamic and they weren't, you know, 10, 20, 50 years ago. What happened was as the Soviet Union and especially the Third Reich, you know like like fade into memory and it's just you know and it's just not something that figures into people's conceptual horizon or even historically in terms of living memory you know like this kind of this like this like this literally like jewish racial state you know talking about invoking these

kind of these apocalyptic kind of scenarios to rationalize why it's got to sustain this kind of bizarre anomalous existence in the kind of globalized planet. Like that doesn't, people can't conceptualize that anymore. You know, and one of the things, you know, like we talked about, one of the things that killed the Soviet Union, you know, it wasn't just the fact that it's, because I mean, like, authoritarian and dysfunctional regimes like shambl on indefinitely, or they can. I mean, it happens all the time. like what killed the Soviet Union wasn't that people didn't have freedom or that it had a basket case economy or that um you know it lacked popular legitimacy in a way that you know um could be could only be remedied by you know over reliance on punitive measures i mean those things didn't help any but at the end of the day the class struggle paradigm as like an ontological reality like regardless of like the credit

ability of that explanation for very human political life and sociological existence. Regardless of whether there's any merit to that or not, the punctuated disturbances of modernity, like, you know, really, really disrupted people's lives. You know, and that's one of the things that gave Marxist-Leninism its momentum as well as its credibility. And when those conditions abated and people couldn't even really conceptualize of them anymore, You know, because two-thirds of the population had been born after those occurrences took place and things. You know, there's no longer a context of Sovietism. You know, it's is this big team incoherent.

And in large part, that's where Israel is now. You know, and that's one of the things, that's one of the reasons why the Holocaust narrative was so essential. Because when they had this, like, monumental power, like totemic power, you know, regardless, even, even with the inter-German border no longer existing, even with the Cold War, no longer dividing the planet, it could be said like, well, you know,

the Jews as a people, like Jewish people, Jewish people, you know, they were availed the most catastrophic evil that ever existed. And, you know, this could reemerge at any time,

you know, owing to the basic moral frailties of, of everybody else. And there, unique enmity towards the Jews as a people. So, you know, Zionism is essentially like the defensive ramparts that they need.

You know, like, I mean, that's nonsense. But this had a tremendous totemic power again. I mean, only went a number of variables. I don't think something like that could be I don't think something like that could be constructed now.

Like such an ideological narrative that had that kind of staying power and that kind of total and was kind of that like totally insinuated into political life and conceptual terms the way that particular narrative was but you know if you look at the history of israel go ahead can i ask you one yeah so you said it had nothing to do with woke but i look at like israel and i look at what they're you know what what comes out of the government what they're trying to do and then i look at like teliv the gayest city on earth those those two things those seem to be clack that's a clash to me that is oh no it is yeah israel the government

and then you have Tel Aviv over here which is just you know decadence is Sodom and Gomorra that that doesn't seem like it's going to work oh no their internal situation absolutely that's true I was talking more in terms of world opinion the reason why people suddenly in the in the like people apparently like suddenly turned against the Jewish state like I mean in terms of um I mean I mean I mean I mean, like in America and in the EU and things. No, absolutely. Israel's a basket case. What's also, too, it's kind of the point I was making is that the people who are kind of like perpetuating Jewish life,

you know, there are these like hardline religious elements who really aren't Zionists. Like they're super hardcore like in their identitarian commitments, but not because of Zionism. They think Zionism is nonsense. You know, and at worst, they think it's, you know, like blasphemous and like a kind of idolatry. you know the um it's uh and i mean that's a whole other um that's a whole other paradigm that's rather complicated um but uh one could actually say that israel is multicultural yeah it is um and a multicultural society is not going is not going to last well that's why like racialism on its own fate like just on its own terms like doesn't work you know i mean like

it's not because like race isn't real or something or that it's not an essential component of identity and everything else, but they can't just be like the exclusive basis of, you know, your communitarian mandate. You know, because yeah, it just

it doesn't, it doesn't it doesn't lead anything. Other than some kind of superficial how much a naity that's, you know, like a mile wide and half an inch deep. But, the um the um what's also what people have to understand is that you know kind of the um and i'll get

into briefly i'll kind of break down what um white white nultes description is apropos i think a lot of people don't truly understand what happened in the nineteen forty eight war but you know israel israel always had a problem with getting people who are willing to go live there like israel's shithole. Again, I'm not saying that like, oh, fuck those people. I'm saying, do you want to go live in some you want to go live in some unstable

in geostrategic terms? You know, like densely mass like overpopulated you know, country in the desert where you know, the cost of living basically to

afford the kinds of luxuries were used to in America or in, you know, the EU or Japan, you know can be astronomical depending on the world situation you know where um you know it's a day-to-day activity is kind of limited by the security situation which is which is one of like permanent emergency and also again too it's not we're not talking about we're not talking about like a guy who you know was born in japan or like born in spain or something like going back to the old country like israel's an ideological state you know like it's not again again it's not it's not kind of like the Jewish way of life as it's been for you know

thousands of years in the Near East just like fully realized or something so there's always this problem with getting people to move to Israel you know and um that was one of the the huge push of the the Jackson Vandak amendment you know which was obviously premised on you know the need to treat Jews as refugees from Soviet anti-Semitism you know nobody actually believed that, you know, Brezhnev or Andropov was going to subject these people to a program. The underlying impetus was this is a way to literally get people to Israel. You know, like the Soviets, you know, basically like,

basically like bribing the Soviets to, to hand out visas for free, you know, to any ethnic Jew within Soviet borders. You know, but they're, you know, they're, you know, they were only with the understanding that their destination was Israel. You know, I mean, that, and on top of that, too, you know, I've always maintained, one of the reasons Rabin was murdered. And Ehud Barak, who's a pretty sensible guy, he's kind of a man without allies,

because, I mean, he was just like a hard line, like IDF military guy. So people on the left, including, you know, like Israeli labor types, don't like him. He's hugely critical of Likud, so these are hardcore Zionists don't like him. But he all but admits that, you know, Barack was, or Rabin was assassinated. And Rabin was essentially going to end of the permanent emergency. You know, but they, but Israel ceased to do exist if that emergency ever goes away. You know, like I'm not even saying this is consciously within the contemplation of, of the inner party of le coup or something i think some people understand this very well you know

and on a very conscious level but you know israel needs that they need that they need the threat of existential siege they need the the threat or at least the the conceptual specter realistic or not so long as it so long as it has credibility within the minds of you know the national community there this idea that you know they're facing oblivion unless, you know, they remain, they sustain this constant vigilance that's facilitated by, you know, this kind of like Spartan socialism. You know, that's, without that Israel doesn't have anything.

You know, without that, it's, it's going to, like, evaporate into the pages of history. You know, I think that's inevitable, but it, um, and it's already happening, but that's, that's what, um, that's what noulty was getting at about Israel. Um, and that's hugely important. And, I mean, just like briefly, too, like for people who don't accept what, um, except that whole kind of, that whole kind of paradigm, you know, the, the, the 1948 war, well, first of all, as, as any Zionist or, enthusiastically remind you the Arab forces in being and the men with real combat experience, they'd either been the ops to the British Empire or they'd been fighting on the side of the Third Reich,

including the Mufti Al Hussein who was, had been branded a war criminal and had fled Berlin at the 11th hour and, you know, was basically, it was basically like living a vagrant life of a wanted man, or an interneurant life, rather. So there was a unique vulnerability in terms of, in terms of the Arab population of Palestine

and their ability to defend themselves, you know, at least contra their Zionist adversaries. what we think of as like the 1948 war or the you know the liberation war or the war of Israeli independence or whatever court history calls it it were essentially talking about haganas what they called plan d which was the ethnic cleansing of Palestine even though it was clear they were going to get their way in some sense with the UN partition Truman was not enthusiastic about it. And ironically, the

only people who were were the Soviet Union. And that rapidly they were, the Soviets rapidly reversed course on that, but that's outside the scope we're talking about right now. But the Hagan, Ergun,

the stern gang, they all, they all realize that even if they got even if they got like, you know, fully half of the land in question, they still had a demographic problem. You know, they still have their backs against the wall in terms of, you know, as regards to the bound of rationality

of what they were trying to accomplish. And that was, you know, a Jewish racial state wherein, you know, the entirety of Amanda Palestine was in their hands, you know, demographically, militarily, and otherwise. so in march 1948 plan d kicks off

and um Zionist paramilitary elements it was the first time they were under a unified command um really uh all the Palestinian Arabs had was

they had Abda al-Qaeda al-Husini and a man named Hassan Salome they succeeded in cutting the road between Tel Aviv and Jerusalem. And had there been the forces in being to assault, they might have had the manpower to seize Jerusalem.

And that would have been a game changer, in my opinion. But be as it may, design and leadership realized they had to act systematically, and they had to act now. not just because of a possible Palestinian offensive to preempt what they were planning but they discern that there might very well be a change in the international situation in particular

kind of like Washington D.C.'s mood towards the concept of a Jewish state and just as as kind of the Cold War hardened in terms of the National Alliance structure they thought that their ambitions would probably be sacrificed I mean you can argue that either way but

again in terms of what in terms of in terms of Zionism as an idea you know like we talked about in Nolte's view which I think is correct ideas of their own animating force you know this Zionist project

had to be seen through or would die, especially at that juncture. So the ethnic clinic of Palestine, it really went into full operation in April and May of 48. It had two, and really only two, like, basic objectives. The first was to swiftly and systematically take any installations evicted by the British,

civilian, military, or infrastructural, you know, to occupy them, repurpose them as the infrastructure for the nascent state, and in the short term, you know, employ them as needed in, you know, the duration of the military operation at hand, which also gave them a huge advantage. They also, they were able to facilitate this because there was a minority of pro-Zionist British officers on the ground. and there's still this element, you know, in the British ruling establishment, which, and people can write the entire values under why that is, you know,

especially in this era, especially in the era in question, when British soldiers and civilians had died at the hands of Ergun and other Zionist elements. I mean, this completely stupefies me, but there was enough support on the ground for Zionists among the British garrison, which was in the process of, bugging out, you know, that this eased them the kind of tactical burden on accomplishing these things.

The Palestinians had no such advantage. And they're also, again, you know, the palace, what was the Palestinian leadership? They were access adjacent. You know, so they were, if they were wanted men, and if they weren't

formally wanted, you know, they, they certainly would have become targeted if they'd re-emerged. You know, so this idea that, oh, the Palestinians are just, you know, they're just, they're just fools. They're just, you know, savages who couldn't mobilize. That's complete bullshit. I mean, regardless how anybody feels about the Palestinian cause or anything, that's just not, that's just not true. the second and the most important obviously aspects or ambition of plan D and of the war generally

it was to ethnically cleanse what was to be the future Jewish state of as many Palestinians as possible the main direct action element of the Zionist was Higana which had several

brigades each brigade was assigned a village or a township to occupy. And almost all of these villages were ordered to be destroyed. And, you know, the people expelled or outright killed. And some of these, this led to some difficult situations, especially in mixed areas where there wasn't great support for the Zionist cause, I mean for obvious reasons, where, you know, you had, you had Zionist paramilitary is literally extricating people's Arab neighbors,

and in some cases there were intermarriages and things, you know, like very ugly stuff. There was the most, what really was kind of a game changer in terms of world opinion, as well as in terms of what truly radicalized not just the Palestinians on ground but the sympathetic Arab regimes

especially those populated by you know by Sunnis and you know Palestine as a Sunni majority April 20th auspicious date 98 the Dariusan massacre in Haifa.

Higana assaulted Haifa, and everybody, everybody was killed, regardless of age, sex, overall health, you know, women's children, it didn't matter. And it was very, it was very chaotic. there's some reports of trophy taking from the dead mutilation of the dead like people taking noses and ears there were reports that were fairly substantiated of young girls and women being raped this was not this was not some well-executed

you know like clean kind of like IDF operation or something okay it was a it was an ugly and brutal grass and creak in all the worst ways. And the response to that was as this kind of as world opinion kind of

became outraged by this you know, this Zionist leadership they took to these kinds of, they took to these sort of performative endeavors of you know, publicly encouraging Palestinians to remain in

these, in these mixed areas, you know, saying, you know, you'll have come to any harm and, you know, everybody's rights are going to be honored in the future Jewish state. I mean, which was, I mean, even if that was sincere on the part of political cadres, I've no reason to think it was, but, I mean, let's say it was, you know, the situation on the ground was what it was, and it had its own momentum. And it, it couldn't be stopped at that point, in my opinion, you know, but all told, all told about, um, three quarters of a million Palestinians were, you know, expelled from the land.

You know, probably about 20,000 people were killed outright. And again, this was not excluded in military age males, quite the contrary. It was, you know, categorically. But that, you know, the, and again, the British had an, arms embargo on mandate Palestine. Truman again was no friends of the Zionist regime. I mean, even after, you know, victory was declared in May of 48, Truman issued a de facto recognition that, you know, of the Zionist state,

you know, but he refused a de jure acknowledgement of their legitimacy. the Soviet Union was the first state to provide that. And the, um, the sinus elements on the ground, you know, Haganah, first among them, they'd gotten the small arms that they were able to procure were largely from the East block, you know, and it goes to show you how the reason why

Moscow envisioned Israel, as Zionist Israel, as being adjacent to them ideologically I mean part of it is because again I mean to know these point you know Zionism wasn't is the

progeny of the same nexus of causation as were the other you know great European ideologies of the 20th century I mean I believe where Stalin was sitting he probably viewed

he probably viewed the treatment of the Palestinians and the way that he viewed his own treatment of the nationalities and well, you know, this is a way of creating a tabular rasa so that, you know, some kind of Israeli socialism can be built. You know,

um, and the reason why, and again, I mean, the reason why that was an idea that could be entertained, you know, Stalin with the consummate realist, he wasn't prone to flights of fantasy,

it made sense why he would think that, you know, but ultimately developed you know, again, to, with the East block being a, you know, rabidly anti-Zionist

and the DDR carrying on, like literally an active war against the Jewish state. You know, I think that, I mean, that's, that's demonstrative of Nolte's point to. I mean, all this stuff, I don't see how people can reject the kind of

the kind of Higalian view of history. I mean, with some qualifications, obviously, when they look at how these things actually developed, you know, I mean, we're not just talking about arguments between historians and kind of academic ivory tower cloisters, you know, we're talking about

you know, war and peace phenomenon that actually developed and was just positive in terms of the outcome of the Cold War. It, you know, I think one of the, one of the reasons,

you know, one of the reasons why it was such a pariah state, you know, was, was for that reason. It wasn't just because, you know, in order to, it was a convenient sort of ideological framing for the Eastern block to say, you know, oh, this is

a, this is a fascist state, like the Bundes Republic, but even worse, because it's premised not overtly, you know, racialist principles. You know, it was because, on some level, everybody discerned that

there was something unseemly about Zionism, you know, that, not not because, like, it's Jewish, or not because you know, of anything intrinsic to the Jewish character. People are going to make that case that they want. I'm saying that's not what...

That's not why it was a kind of natural target for Soviet propaganda. It's because the first half of the 20th century was catastrophic. That goes up to saying. Okay. And even somebody who doesn't accept in ethical or...

or conceptual terms you know the claims the International War Crime Tribunal at Nuremberg or the claims of you know court historians who posit this you know Sunderberg theory of Germany and invoke it off Hitler as

some kind of a that's some kind of a stand in for Lucifer even somebody doesn't accept that at all you know saying you've got to accept this sort of exceptional state that's premised on this sort of like rabid racial nationalism, the structures of which, although superficially similar to familiar ones,

are basically all oriented towards, you know, the maintenance of this totally abnormal, you know, sociological and military paradigm. You just got to accept all this, you know, because it's essential when we do, you know, these, uh, and the reasons presented are things that, you know, kind of like remind people of the darkest kind of like the darkest times, the inner war years and what was suggested as as being necessary for the survival of the race or the ascended working class or whatever else.

I mean, it's not something that people wanted to think about. You know, and it's not something that people felt comfortable with, you know, kind of raising the banner of legitimacy, regardless of what they felt about, or if they had any opinion about, you know, like Jewish people in Zionism. And that's some... And that's also something Nolte said in one of his last collection of essays. He said that ultimately, you know, Zionism has to either fulfill its sort of internal mission.

You know, as a monumental idea, it's not historically contingent, you know, because Nolte agreed with Carl Schmitt in that regard. And Heidegger. you know, ideas of their own self-contained revelation, you know, and that's either realized or it's not. And in the case of Israel, that's only realized really by some kind of an ensig. And the end in context, that would basically mean, you know, the annihilation of the Palestinians as a people, you know. is that possible today?

I mean, physically, yeah. Is there the political will there? I mean, to your point about Israel being, I mean, not to sound like some sort of like Marxist or something, but is, is it fatally compromised by its own internal contradictions? Like, yeah, I think actually maybe it is.

But even were it not, you know, I think, I don't think they could I don't think the Israelis could start categorically exterminating the people at Gaza any more than in 1980

Brezhnev could have assaulted Poland you know like the Soviets did Hungary in 56 like this would have been like unthinkable considering the state of not even just like world opinion just like conceptually like what people can tolerate

you know morally but it's also I mean, you talk about it being an anachronism. It seems like, you know, 100 million people were killed in the first half of the century to prevent states like Israel from existing. Yeah, exactly, exactly.

So it's this case of special pleading where it's like, oh, but, you know, this is the case of, this is the case of Israel, because, you know, there's all these exceptional circumstances that threaten it. But without, you know, without the Nuremberg narrative, having like truly kind of punctuated cachet in the collective memory like yeah that just doesn't it the people that that means nothing to people so yeah exactly exactly like why um that's the point to make the people too you know like people like me or you know some of our right wing Palestinian and Iranian and Lebanese friends when they raised the issue of

Israeli racialism, they're not saying like, oh, Israelis are the real racialists. What they're saying is that the regime tells you that everything Israel does is utterly unacceptable in all cases, but Israel. Like, that's the point. Like, the point is on its own terms,

like, is racism bad? That's totally, that doesn't anything to do with it. It's why this special pleading and, you know, and even and even notwithstanding that, like, why is this such

imperative. You know, like you can't make the claim like people did during the Cold War that this is an absolute strategic necessity. Because for better or worse, you know, America was in the Cold War and its enemies were, you know, the client states of the Soviet Union, which were Israel's enemies. Now, how much that owed to the fact of America provoking these circumstances but not practicing balanced diplomacy and regardless of whether the Cold War should have been fought or not like that's not important

because like America was in the Cold War and take like 1967 or 73 you know like the die was cast you know it's not as if like the brakes could be put on the geostrategic situation as it had developed so yeah there's

um you're absolutely right um yeah that's about there's some other stuff I want to take up but again it's it's I kind of want to conclude this like multi-discussion so I want to save that for next time I want to do I haven't decided yet I'm I'm re-reading the Sims

excuse me I'm sorry biography of Hitler which raises really important concepts including you know Hitler contra Roosevelt and Hitler's understanding of America as not just

Germany's primary adversary but also of you know the like the future of this planet hinging on you know the ability of civilizations to constitute themselves as superpowers and how like Europe was coming up short you know in every

in every categorical criteria contra America and This wasn't just a question of a practical of a military ambition or a practical war planning and things. It had to do with the entirety

of Europe's historical mission and which would, in Hitler's mind, would either succeed or Europe would simply perish. And to understand that is essential understanding Hitler and the war, it's essential understanding Roosevelt and that

the fact that Roosevelt and Hitler and the radio addresses were always like in dialogue with each other you know not with Churchill not with Stalin

not you know with them not with the world generally so we could I was playing with you know you want to do a

do a few of those with me and yeah that's what I'm getting at I think it'd be better suited to do a series that we do rather than me just like doing it on the podcast but I'd also want to

I'd also don't want to tell you your business in terms of No that sounds great And I wanted to mention everyone to hear this too Thomas dropped The first episode of season two A Mind Phaser with Jay Burton And yeah that was a banger

Yeah that was good man No thank you man No burden's a prince man like he's a great guy And a great kind creator He's also a dear friend and he's nice to Everybody always really likes his appearances man So that helps me obviously he's uh he's he's also he doesn't allow himself to be trapped inside a box he he has a lot of

different influences and um i don't think he really cares what anybody thinks about you know about any of them either he's just you know he has his opinions and i think they're solid no he's a great guy man he really is i can't i can't um i can't praise him um effusively enough um but yeah no this was great man thanks again Yeah, so we'll plan that, we'll plan that out privately. And, yeah, hit some plugs real quick and we'll lend this. Yeah, the best place to find me is in my website. It's Thomas 777.com, number seven, hmass 777.com.

If you're going to find, that's the link to my Twitter, it's a link to my Instagram, it's a link to my substick, it's a link to my Tgram, and just like random other stuff's on there. But the substack is where the pot is. It's capital R-E-A-L underscore Thomas-777.com. Because we've launched season two of mine phaser, I'm going to make the season one content free. I'm probably going to do that on Monday.

Like all season one, you'll be able to exit for free. I may or may not upload it to YouTube or Rumble, but for now you can... like you don't need any special app or anything. You can just listen on, just go to substack.com and anything that's, that's not by a paywall. I mean,

you can just click it and listen to it. But yeah, that's, that's what I got. All right. Until the next time. Thank you as always. Yeah, thank you, man.