The Pete Quiñones Show - *Throwback* Pete and Paul Fahrenheidt Talk About The Life and Career of Sen. Joseph McCarthy

Episode Date: February 6, 2025

65 MinutesPG-13 Paul Fahrenheidt is a husband, father, podcaster, writer, and founding member of the Old Glory Club.Pete and Paul did a livestream for the newly formed, Old Glory Club, covering the life, work and censuring of Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin Today's.A Country Squire's NotebookOld Glory Club YouTube ChannelOld Glory Club SubstackPaul's SubstackPaul on TwitterPete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Antelope Hill - Promo code "peteq" for 5% off - https://antelopehillpublishing.com/FoxnSons Coffee - Promo code "peter" for 18% off - https://www.foxnsons.com/Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's Substack Pete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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was entered into the record. The transcript reads, resolved that the senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy, failed to cooperate with the subcommittee on privileges and elections of the Senate Committee on rules and administration in clearing up matters referred to that subcommittee, which concerned his conduct as a senator and affected the honor of the Senate and, instead, repeatedly abused the subcommittee and its members who were trying to carry out assigned duties, thereby obstructing the constitutional processes of the Senate, and that this conduct of the senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy,

is contrary to senatorial traditions and is hereby condemned. Section 2 reads, the senator from Wisconsin, Mr. McCarthy, in writing to the chairman of the select committee to study censure charges, Mr. Watkins, after the select committee had issued its report and before the report was presented to the Senate, charging three members of the select committee with deliberate deception and fraud for failure to disqualify themselves in stating to the press on November 4, 1954, that the special Senate session that was to begin November 8, 1954, was a a lynch party, quote unquote, in repeatedly describing this special Senate session as a lynch B in a nationwide television and radio show on November 7th, 1954, in stating to the public press on November 13th, 1954, that the chairman of the select committee, Mr. Watkins, was guilty of, quote, the most unusual, most cowardly things I've ever heard of. And stating further, quote, I expected he would be afraid to answer the questions but didn't think he'd be stupid enough to make a public statement. And in characterizing the said committee as the unwitting handmaiden, involuntary agent, and attorneys, in fact, of the Communist Party and in changing, in charging that said committee in writing its report, imitated communist methods that it distorted, misrepresented, and omitted in its effort to manufacture a plausible rationalization.

in support of its recommendations to the Senate, which characterizations and charges were contained in a statement released to the press and inserted in the congressional record of November 10, 1954, acted contrary to senatorial ethics, and tended to bring the Senate into dishonor and disrepute to obstruct the constitutional process of the Senate and to impair its dignity and such conduct is hereby condemned. Does that sound petty to you?

Extremely so. Extremely so. Sounds like an outright moral condemnation, which is always the camouflage utilized to destroy a political opponent, especially when that political opponent has accurately characterized a given situation. It's interesting. We talk about whether certain historical figures will be rehosphered, rehabilitated. And I think as every day progresses and every hour progresses,

Senator Joseph McCarthy of Wisconsin is vindicated, is rehabilitated, is shown to be the hero that he was. I completely agree. And matter of fact, there are very few individuals within American politics, particularly 20th century American politics, that you can point at as how. having been more sort of maligned, not just with his political reputation, but also with his personal reputation, which we'll probably get into. You know, people, and people like John McCain, for example, in contrast, get portrayed as these great heroes, as these exemplars of Americana, as opposed to people like McCarthy with much more tangible. The thing I'm speaking of at this instance is service records,

but much more tangible sort of performances and public lives. But Senator McCarthy, you know, you could very easily say made the wrong enemy with the wrong group of people. And it very much cost him everything, including his life when he died in, I think, Bethesden Naval Hospital in 1957. Let's talk a little bit about that life. So he was born November 14th, 1908, and Little Shoot was. Johnson. Jump forward to 1935. He graduates from Marquette University Law School. 1939, he has elected a circuit judge in Appleton, Wisconsin. From 1942 to 1945, McCarthy had enlisted in the U.S. Marine Corps serving in the United States and the Pacific Theater of Operations.

I don't know if he ever got shot down, but you know, you mentioned McCain, and I like my pilots that don't get shot down. So actually, one of the, one of the, this is kind of skipping ahead a little bit, but one of the, one of the smear tactics that I think his political enemies started using against him in his later career was basically calling into question his service record. You know, what, what they started saying about him, Joe McCarthy was a officer in the United States Marine Corps during World War II. And he was a specifically, he was an intelligence officer that briefed bombing crews before they went out and did raids. basically one of the things they made fun of is, oh, he volunteered to fly all these combat missions, but none of them were actually dangerous. They were all safe, and he never got shot at. And they let him unload a bunch of ammo on some trees to make him feel like a soldier. And so they called him tailgunner Joe. And stuff like that, basically, I personally, I don't believe that's the case. They would say things like, you know, he forged his own commendation letter for his distinguished service. We're kind of skipping ahead, but this is kind of what I'm talking about. I don't think any of

that's necessarily true. I think he very much did fly several combat aviation missions that he volunteered to because that kind of stuff was normal during World War II. And really, I think, I think this is, this is just what happens when you decide to cross the wrong group of people. Anyway, forgive me, continue on. Let's not go there. All right. So, 1944. he runs unsuccessfully for U.S. Senate while serving in the Marines. Imagine someone trying to do that today. Well, small, small little aside, actually, we've had, we have had senators who were actively serving in the U.S. military before. I forget, I forget there was one name.

This is just complete aside, but during the Battle of Balls Bluff and the American Civil War, which is one of the first battle, that's the one of the one battle, that's the one battle, where a U.S. Senator actually died in combat. And, you know, he was actually one of Abraham Lincoln's really, really good friends. But he was shot in the head. I completely forget his name, this senator. But that's the one battle where we've had senators die in combat. So in American history, before now, before everything got boring, Edwin Dickinson Baker, Edwin Dickinson Baker.

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Before now, when everything got boring, we had senators who would run for Senate while serving in the U.S. military. So this very much had precedent. So he gets out in 45, gets out of the Marines, and on November 5th, 1946, he is elected to the U.S. Senate. 1950, February 9th, McCarthy delivers a speech in Wheeling, West Virginia, attacking communists in the State Department. This marks the beginning of his anti-communist tirade. And I have a speech of his that I will read when we get to that. March 8th, same year 1950, the U.S. Senate establishes Foreign Relations Subcommittee

chaired by Senators Tidings of McMahon. The Tidings McMahon Committee begins investigating McCarthy's accusations against the State Department. June 25th, 1950, a couple months later, North Korea invades South Korea. 1950, same year, December, U.S. Senate establishes Internal Security Subcommittee chaired by Senator Pat McCarron. The McCarran Committee works with McCarthy to expose alleged communists. Six months later, June 14, 1951, McCarthy criticizes, General George C. Marshall in a Senate speech. 1952, November 4th, about a year and a half later after that, McCarthy is re-elected to the U.S. Senate,

and Republican Dwight D. Eisenhower is elected president of the United States. 1953, a couple months later, January 20th, McCarthy becomes chairman of Senate Permanent Subcommittee on Investigations. 1953 same year, August 31st, six months later or seven months later, McCarthy begins investigating communists in the U.S. Army. About nine months later, 1954, March 9th, Edward R. Murrow criticizes McCarthy in his television program, See it now.

Ah, the press. Yeah, this is kind of where you start seeing the, at least the foundations laid for the sort of third estate taking a much larger role in electoral politics because the, you know, the vacuum left by FDR and the New Deal regime, basically, you didn't have this one big man directing the whole press anymore. So starting with McCarthy, you really kind of see this journalism class, be it newspaper men, TV men, various reporters, kind of start collectively advancing their own interests as a media group. And that's that's kind of evolved into what you see now.

So from same year, 1954, this is basically a month later, 40 days later, April 22nd through June 17th, there are televised hearings of the McCarthy looking into communists in the army. Six months after that, November, 1954, midterm elections, Republicans become the minority party in the Senate, McCarthy loses his chairmanship of permanent subcommittee on investigations. Roughly a month later, 1954, December 2nd, the U.S. Senate votes to condemn McCarthy 68 years ago today. About six months after that, almost to the day, about three and a half years after that, almost to the day, May 2nd, 1957. McCarthy dies about but that. But that The Naval Hospital.

He is buried in Appleton, Wisconsin on May 6th. So a short life, he was, what, 49? Yeah, he was young. Yeah, he was, yeah, he, I don't, I don't even think he had reached his 49th birthday. He would have been 48. Yeah. And yeah, he's gone. It was, what did him, I think it was like a pulmonary embolism.

But here's the thing, like when you had people, especially people who would die in military hospitals post-war. You have all sorts of strange reasons, unattributed reasons. There's several figures who die in military hospitals after the Second World War that kind of have question marks right next to their death. And, you know, McCarthy is one example. There's two other examples. The other one is, of course, George Patton,

who had a miraculous recovery, and then the next day he was dead. Very strange. after making a bunch of comments around a similar group of communists kind of getting into the U.S. government like McCarthy did. And then the third was actually Admiral William Forrestall, who was the last cabinet-level secretary of the Navy and the first cabinet-level secretary of defense. The Department of Defense wasn't created until after the Second World War when it was changed from the Department of War to the Department of Defense. And Forrestal was the first sec death. and he checks himself into Walter Reed medical hospital and, you know, his, because his mental state is so terrible,

even though he planned on going fishing that weekend with his son. And then somehow his mental state just descends so much that he throws himself out of the 13th floor of Walter Reed. Very, very, very curious. And, I mean, it's just a, it's a really strange trend you see with really vocal, outspoken figures who were very much war heroes, who very much did fight and did do their service to their country and felt like the country was kind of being stolen out from under them after the war. And they all just mysteriously die in military hospitals.

Yeah, we don't want to be the kind of people who jump into conspiracy theories. But it does seem that it's right around this time, right around the time that the quote unquote red scare happened. you start seeing people, you know, when people start speaking out against communists, as we know that General Patton did. And he said, said things like, we fought the wrong enemy. And, you know, wanted to go into, wanted to go into Russia. He knew that they were weak and that they could probably be taken. But of course, that wasn't going to happen. It seems like people who Airgrid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid, is powering up the Northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local knowledge are vital in shaping these plans.

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Really went against that at the time were, you know, just, you know, passed on rather early. 48 years old, 57 years old. Yeah. No, I mean, it's, it's really strange. Yeah, I don't want to get into sort of conspiracy mindset, but, you know, this is, this is, this is how, this is how these sort of politics are worked. There's all sorts of, you know, plots to kill people, plots to silence people, you know, plots to do anything. That's why McCarthy's service record was smeared, especially after he, we're going to get into this, but especially after he starts going after the army, which very much did have a problem,

especially post-war with these sort of officers with ambiguous ties to the Soviet Union or, and if not to the Soviet Union to the remnants of the socialist party of America, which was in many ways a sort of an arm of that. I mean, it's just weird. It's really weird that this is, you can see this pattern with all of these figures, all criticizing the same thing and they all just mysteriously die on timely deaths. Yes. Especially people talking about communism.

As we already talked about in the timeline, he really started speaking out against it in 1950. And here's a, this is Joseph McCarthy on communism in 19. And just stop me any time because this is, it's about 300 words. But it's a nice little thing. He goes, he starts off saying five years after World War had been won, men's hearts should anticipate a long peace and men, men's minds should be free from the heavy weight that comes with war. But this is not such a period.

For this is not a period of peace. This is a time of the cold war. This is a time when all the world is split into two vast, increasingly hostile, armed camps, a time of a great armaments race. Today we can almost physically hear the mutterings and rumblings of an invigorated god of war. You can see it, feel it, and hear it all the way from the halls of Indochina, from the shores of Formosa, right over into the very heart of Europe itself. Today we are engaged in a final all-out battle between communist atheism and Christianity. The modern champions of communism have selected this at this time as the time. And ladies and gentlemen, the chips are down.

They are truly down. It's interesting. I mean, it's very, I'm not compared. it even comparing the thought of what he's saying there, the spirit of what he's saying there, but almost a very Yaqui-like type of prose. Well, there's a reason. Matter of fact, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe actually Yaqui himself wrote a speech for Senator McCarthy after the war that he never gave, but he was supposed

to give it to the, I think it was the German-American Association of America or something like that. And yeah, like this is, this is, you know, we've talked about Yaki before on your channel outside of here. And this is kind of the era where you have these sort of, you have these sort of, which you would call post-war right figures, because, you know, we've talked about this before. The American right wing that existed before World War II, the sort of America first or segment led by Lindberg, which wasn't a majority to be sure, but was a significant minority, kind of just vanished overnight after December 7th. And you've got these, you've got these, you know, after the war, a lot of them went and fought,

you know, in Europe or in the Pacific, and they came back. And they tried to, they tried to have a semblance of a recreation of a sort of post-war American right. I can virtually guarantee you if George Patton had made it back to the United States, there would be a very healthy and true right wing in the country right now. I can virtually guarantee you that if someone, let's say, like Douglas MacArthur won the presidency, we would have had something similar. But all of these sort of military men who experienced the fight and experienced what the Soviets

really were and all this other stuff, they kind of all just vanish. and, you know, Yaki and people like him, you know, H. Keith Thompson and other similar individuals. H. Keith Thompson, I think, was still in the military, actually, when this started occurring. Really, you see this sort of influence from these post-war right-wing figures, and it starts entering the discourse of mainstream politicians, such as Joseph McCarthy, such as the people who get on Hugh Act with him. going after these communists. Yeah, he wasn't in Hewack.

He was in the Senate and, and he was the House. Forgive me. It's a common misconception and it's a smear. It's something that's been drilled into us that McCarthy and Huac McCarthy and Huac McCarthy and Huac. Yeah, it was, that was a House committee and he was in the Senate. So, I mean, but it's, I'm more than capable of being wrong. I'm very capable of being wrong. No, no, I thought it for years.

I thought it for you. And a friend of mine, I said it to a friend of mine, my friend of mine is like, no. All right. Well, regardless, McCarthy did have a camp of individuals around him who kind of, you know, there were a few, there weren't a lot, but there were a few who kind of joined him. And this later became the foundation for what we would call the John Birchers. The thing is that the John Birchers, were very conveniently set up to basically contain all of this to this sort of crazy group of

fringe characters before, during, and after McCarthy's lifetime. But yeah, no, you can see Yaki's hands on a lot of this and a lot of the hands of people who are working with him. Yeah. And what you're talking about is you're talking about gatekeepers. Yeah. And gatekeepers on the right. And I say it all the time.

The gatekeepers on the right right now are, you don't even need left progressive screaming fascist. And so you have these people who call themselves the right, the press, everyone calls them the right. And they are by no means right wing, but they will be the first people to scream fascist at the drop of the hat. Of course. And this existed back then, too.

you had, you had, you know, quote-unquote Republicans going against McCarthy like, oh, this man is deranged, this man is crazy. Matter of fact, I think Eisenhower actually was of that camp. This sort of like, we're not going to go this far, despite the fact that Eisenhower was saved from court-martialing early in his career by a certain billionaire by the name of Bernard Baruch, but we're not going to get into that either. But regardless, he should have been hung by the neck for what he did after the war in Germany. Well, I mean, that's a whole other topic, but you're completely correct on that. And you see this sort of line of interests, you know, and this is where you had people like Yaqui running around post-war. And you have, like, like these people didn't just die out.

Like the America Firsters and the Charles Limburg Caucus didn't die out during the war. A lot of them went to fight because they were. genuine American patriots who wanted to fight and protect America. And America was at war. So they went and fought. And a lot of them came back and believed they fought a war, or at least that the consolidations made after the war were really strange, especially after the sort of basic surrendering of China to Mao's communists, where we basically just kind of let it happen. And that was that was a that was that was that was that was the big sort of alarm bell that people like McCarthy and other individuals started taking. And that's that's why yaki's words, yaki is a sort of thought leader behind the scenes started penetrating into into mainstream discourse.

This is the first time post-war you see this happen and then it kind of gets quashed and then it starts happening another couple of times in the decades up until this point. And every time it gets kind of quashed as it happens. All right. I'm going to continue with this. So, okay, it says, ladies and gentlemen, can there be anyone here tonight who is so blind as to say that the war is not on? Can there be anyone who fails to realize that the communist world has said the time is now, that this is the time for the showdown between the democratic Christian world and the communist atheistic world? Unless we face this fact, we shall pay the price that must be paid by those who wait too long. As one of our outstanding, historical figures once said, when a great democracy is destroyed, it will not be because of enemies from without, but rather because of enemies from within. The truth of this statement is becoming terrifyingly clear as we see this country each day losing on every front. At war's end, we were physically the strongest nation on earth, and at least potentially, the most powerful intellectually and morally. Hours could have been the honor of being a beacon.

in the desert of destruction, a shining, living proof that civilization was not yet ready to destroy itself. Unfortunately, we have failed miserably and tragically to arise to the opportunity. The reason why we find ourselves in a position of impotency is not because of our only powerful potential enemy has sent men to invade our shores, but rather because of the traitorous actions of those who have been treated so well by this nation. It has not been the left, It has not been the less fortunate or members of minority groups who have been selling the nation out. That comes later. But rather, those who have all had the benefit that the wealthiest nation on earth has had to offer.

The finest homes, the finest college education, and the finest jobs in government we can give. This is glaringly true in the State Department. There, the bright young men who are born with silver spoons in their mouths are the ones who have been worst. in my opinion, the State Department, which is one of the most important governing departments, is thoroughly infested with communists. I have in my hand 57 cases of individuals who would appear to be either card-carrying members or certainly loyal to the Communist Party, but who nevertheless are still helping to shape our foreign policy. That's quite the accusation there, huh? Well, what's funny is he has a number to back it up and he waves around a piece of paper.

And a matter of fact, in the U.S. public school system, the Red Scare is actually something that's focused on quite a bit, specifically to eternally burn McCarthy and effigy in the public school system of the United States. Air grid, operator of Ireland's electricity grid is powering up the northwest. We're planning to upgrade the electricity grid in your area and your input and local, knowledge are vital in shaping these plans. Our consultation closes on the 25th of November. Have your say online or in person. So together we can create a more reliable, sustainable electricity supply for your community. Find out more at airgrid.i.4 slash Northwest. Employers, did you know, you can now reward you and your staff with up to 1,500

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And it's put together for a reason because it's kind of meant to reinforce from various points that McCarthy is bad and randomly accusing people. He was randomly accusing people. He had no reason to do this. He was just going around doing this for political game. Well, people who just start randomly accusing people of things

don't tend to name a specific number and don't tend to have a list in their possession with names and they start naming names and start going after individuals. And I mean to be to be completely honest with you, I mean, it's more than 57. It was a lot more than 57. One of the problems McCarthy actually had, and he wasn't, he wasn't a bad man with bad intentions. He tried to do too much at once. He really did try to do too much at once. Which, to be fair, at the time, you didn't know how bad, how really close to total subversion the United States government was by this coterie of organized individuals that had been working behind the scenes that counted amongst their number very likely. You know, Dwight Eisenhower and George Marshall and, you know, other such high-up generals.

And obviously, FDR and his coterie and the people who came. after and in the foundation of what what you would call the military industrial complex. Well, we called today the military industrial complex, but really it was just a sort of consolidation, a palace coup, if you will, of these individuals ensuring that their niche within the U.S. political system was never again challenged. And any time it was, you know, after McCarthy, it just became easier each time because they could just bring up the McCarthy example and quash it. I will go on because here comes a name.

This brings us down to the case of one, Alger Hiss. As you hear this story of high treason, I know that you are saying to yourself, well, why doesn't the Congress do something about it? Actually, ladies and gentlemen, one of the important reasons for the graft, the corruption, the dishonesty, the disloyalty, the treason in high government positions,

one of the most important reasons why this continues is a lack of moral uprising on the part of the 140 million American people. 140 million. In the light of history, however, this is not hard to explain. It is the result of an emotional hangover and a temporary moral lapse which follows every war. It is the apathy to evil which people who have been subjected to the tremendous evils of war feel. As the people of the world see mass murder, the destruction of defenseless and innocent people, and all the crime and lack of morals which go with war, they become numb and apathetic. It has always been thus after war.

However, the morals of our people have not been destroyed. They still exist. This cloak of numbness and apathy has only needed a spark to rekindle them. Happily, this spark has finally been supplied. He has lighted the spark. which is resulting in a moral uprising and will only end when the whole sorry mess of twisted warp thinkers are swept from the national scenes so that we may have a new birth of national honesty and decency in government.

I wonder if you ask the, what, 330 million people in the country now? And I don't know how many of those would even be Americans, technically. who Alger, Alger Hiss was and what position he held if they would even know. Well, Hiss was far from unimportant for sure. Hiss is interesting. I mean, I don't know. Sorry, I had a whole point. I had a whole thing I was going to go into and it just completely slipped from my mind.

I'm sorry. It happens, man. I'm sorry. No, but no, in all reality, Alger Hiss is kind of like the archer. archetypal example of the type of individual that Joe McCarthy was going after. His decently educated guy, you know, John Hopkins graduate from Maryland, one of the, you know, old family, all this other stuff. But like a lot of this sort of waspy elite that happens, especially in the latter half of the 20th century, a lot of them start getting involved with the socialist party if they hadn't been involved already. And, you know, very much, I'm a very much. I'm a very much turn into assets for not just the Soviet Union, but for this, but for this group we keep talking about because, because the thing is, it's, I'm not, and I'm not talking about an ethnic group or anything like that. This was a, this was a coterie of people that first unified under the

banner of the socialist labor party of America. And they've got precedence before that, but the, the socialist labor party is one of the direct predecessors of the later socialist party of America. And their world headquarters was in New York City. All right. And so, so, so, from the foundation of the Socialist Labor Party of America in 1876 in New York City, you have this, what we call the long march of the institutions, the long march of the institutions, this slow subverting, this slow taking over of all of these various, these very, but it'd be public schools, whether it be, you know, small government post offices or the like, you know, how do these people get into the state department in the first place? Well, they worked their way up.

They made little political gangs. They understood how the American political system worked. They took very much advantage of the rising tide of trade unions, especially in urban centers, to get themselves into the American political system. And his somehow manages to make his way into the State Department where he is one of the key lawyers, one of the key architects of what would later become the United Nations. And when he's later tried, and McCarthy, McCarthy starts going after him, when he's later tried for being an espionage agent for the Soviet Union, it kind of, no one really stops to question, well, wait a minute, why was this guy at the top of everything if he was supposedly doing this, this, this, this, and this. Yeah, it's, there's stuff I want to say, but I don't want to say.

We have to be careful on YouTube. Yeah, you know where I want to go. But it's, you know, let's, let's bring this up. Okay. So this whole quote unquote red scare, as it's called, as it's as it's taught now, McCarthy is the villain, the Rosenbergs are the heroes who gave their lives for, for liberty and freedom. That's the same thing with, real quick.

That's the same thing that they kind of drill in your head with reading Arthur Miller's The Crucible, which is a play about the Salem, which trial. Oh, yeah. And it's like, oh, you know, it's meant. to make you think that like, oh, these terrible backwards people with these horrible ideologies always just end up killing everyone for no reason. And Arthur Miller, who was a very well-known communist, and his works kind of reflect that worldview, was, I don't know if he was stripped of citizenship. He had some sort of international travel restriction on him because of this

stuff. But, you know, yeah, that's, that's, that's, that's very similar. Right. So the point is that this didn't have to happen. And this was the fault of everybody who went along with the program. You know a program I'm talking about. Um, to me, the greatest thing that could have happened in World War two was if the U.S. like, funded both sides, funded Germany and funded, Soviet Union and just let them fight it out and destroy each other. Pretty much. And then maybe

step in when everything's too weak or even, not even. Just broker truces and you know, just have these whatever you want to do with Germany, but definitely make the Russians, you know, who were the more dangerous to the world.

Obviously, not even make them junior partners, but just make them a vassal state. Or they could have, they could have, um, you know, they, it's like Patton said, they have the forces in being in Europe. They could have very easily just spun them up and gone against the Soviets. Um, the Soviets were already bled freaking dry. Um, their entire supply chain was run by us.

Their entire economy was more or less run and planned by us. And we could have, you know, if we wanted to, it, yeah, I would have. cost a lot more dead, sure, but if the United States was really a sort of imperial power looking out for its own national interests, it would have done something like that. It would have been able to sell it. It would have been able to get through with it. The United States, United States was nowhere near the devastation that Europe had had. And while that wasn't known so much amongst the popular conscience of the Americans, if we had basically, if we had basically taken a, if we had basically taken our forces in being and gone after the Soviet Union and started listing all of the

stuff, we knew they did, the war crimes, all this other stuff. We could have easily, we could have easily like spun that as a, you know, we, we, we allied with them to take out this much more dangerous power and now we're going after these terrible slav, whatever. But we didn't do that. Why didn't we do that? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's a reason. You know, people constantly, you know, I like to in conversation when I talk about World War II, I like to lead with, oh, you mean the war that the United States fought side by

side with the communist leading to a century of murder? And then I let them, because they don't want to argue that, they just absolutely flip it and go, oh, would you rather they fight with Germany and, you know, fight with Mr. Mustache? Well, you know, then he gets to take over the world and then you find out that you're dealing with somebody who has an IQ, you know, below 80 because it's like, yeah, I'm sure that if we, if the United States and Germany had allied, that the United States would have allowed, would have allowed him to do whatever he wanted. Because that's what we do, right?

I mean, it's just, oh, we're not going to put any, we're not going to put any restraints on anyone, right, that we ally with. People are just, they're so sad. They're so brainwashed. I mean, something that we've clearly, we clearly see over and over again now in any kind of, any kind of discussion when it comes to foreign policy, when it comes to Ukraine now. one of my favorite things and when I say favorite I mean things I cannot despise is people who just constantly keep

bringing up the fact that there's Nazis in Ukraine and it's just like are you a right you're a right winger right you're a right wing anti-fascist okay great great yeah that makes sense well I mean the

the thing about it is I mean and a lot of the work, a lot of the work that you're doing that my mentor, Thomas 777, is doing with you on your show and on the YouTube channel he's going to be launching pretty soon. You know, this sort of revisionist narratives have very much taken hold in these communities especially. And they're starting to get some traction outside of this community. You know, the idea that, you know, perhaps we should understand World War II as it actually was as a series of competing interests, but not. say competing national interests, except for for one instance and likely the Third Reich. But outside of that, it's kind of this sort of strange series of like, you know, the nascent national security state that you start getting with OSS and double agents and the sort of whole

espionage war that underpins the whole thing and kind of exacerbates during the Cold War, especially after the invention of weapons of mass destruction, which basically necessitate institutional lying in order to prevent or at least mitigate the social consequences of people living with the realization that any day at any time they could be eliminated entirely from the earth. Regardless, you know, that's not to excuse anything because basically the United States turns into one big, how should we say, open air, laboratory after the second world war. And even before so, the thing is, it wasn't, it wasn't as established before so. And this isn't just a laboratory for science experiments, although there are plenty of that. It's a laboratory for, let's say, certain political objectives. And anytime anyone within that sort of laboratory that became the United States within this playpen that was the federal government and associated entities,

anyone who really kind of peeks up against that, speaks against it, you know, like says, hey, maybe things shouldn't be this way, gets quashed, gets their personal combat record disparaged in the papers. Socially, their name is tarnished. They're dragged through the mud and they're essentially banished forever from politics and from public life. And, you know, we're still living with the consequences of that. We're still living, although they're getting diminishing rates of risk.

return now, but we're still living in a world where that's kind of the norm. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, we live in a, we live in a world where it's like the, who is it, they're calling for Trump to, you know, say, look who Trump's meeting with. Trump is meeting with the, you know, the white supremacist, Nick Fuentes. And that means that anyone who meets, you know, then anyone who meets with that, that guy, you know, you know, you know, shouldn't have a job in government. Well, ask the next question. Should they have a job at all?

Should they have a house? Should they be allowed to go into a supermarket? What kind of world are we living in? I mean, what, okay, so some people have thoughts that you don't think, that you don't agree with. Some people have thoughts that you find reprehensible. So, okay, so what? I find

I'm very well read in Lennon and I find much to learn from him when it comes to strategy and some things, some of his thinking but for the most part, his what his actions turned into or I consider to be reprehensible and I consider, you know, I'm glad that he,

I'm glad he died miserable and sick because of what he did to people. There's a German proverb that goes Yadim Dasizino, which means everyone gets what they deserve. Well, unfortunately, they don't. Well, in this life or the next, they get what they deserve. Well, let's hope there is the next life, because my faith is that they're in an life and that a lot of the things that we've a lot of the things that people have done in this life they will get to pay for in the next and well yeah well speaking speaking of speaking of people you know

paying for things i remember one time when i was when i was in college i was going through my college library um and i found this one book it was titled something like essays of american conservatism or something like that and you know i looked through the table of contents it It was a lot of, you know, Barry Goldwater, Bill Buckley sort of, you know, milk toast stuff. And but then my eyes kind of land on a Revelopee Oliver piece that somehow snuck its way into this book. Now, I understand Mr. Oliver was in many ways, I don't want to curse on this channel, but let's just say, let's just say not right in the head in certain instances. However, he was a very insightful commentator and he was a genius philologist. He was a genius at the romance languages.

And in many ways, his work is still the gold standard for people in the field. But he wrote this article. It was called, I think it was titled something like the extent of the communist infiltration of America or something like that. And he essentially outlines all of these things. And it was insane that I came across this because he was outlining all these things that, you know, the dissident right was talking about at the time, that people, that people in these spheres on live streams were, discussing we're bringing about the slow erosion of the United States. And he references this this book called the Pentagon case. So the Pentagon case is a, it's a novel, but it's like,

it's a novel quote unquote with like names changed, but it's basically a confessional. And it's a confessional with name change, written like a novel basically because the individual who wrote it under the pseudonym, Colonel Victor J. Fox. That wasn't his real name. But the pseudonym Colonel Victor J. Fox, he wrote this book called The Pentagon Case. He wrote a couple of other ones later on, but this one is the important one. So Colonel Victor J. Fox was a pseudonym adopted by a gentleman by the name of Lieutenant Commander Robert A. Winston. Now, Robert A. Winston was a legend amongst the Pacific Wars sort of aerial ace community. He was a Navy test pilot. He test piloted the

Boeing F4B, the F3F, the Grumman F3F, rather. He flew on the Enterprise. The Enterprise, by the way, had another undersung Admiral by the name of John G. Cromelin who went home and also was politically maligned because Admiral John G. Cromwellin, who is the executive officer board the USS Enterprise, came back and basically started talking about all of the same stuff that was happening. And they dragged him through the mud too. They painted him as an Alabama a backwards hillbilly. But Robert A. Winston is interesting because

he was also one of the first individuals to start working in sciops. In sciops. He, after the war, after his naval piloting career, he got involved with OSS with that whole,

with that whole, how would you say, that whole nascent intelligence community sphere that, you know, the CIA hadn't, been founded yet. The FBI was still very much a law enforcement entity. These were the kind of people actually that Yaki was involved with and that John Birch, the man, was involved with and that H. Keith Thompson were involved with, right? So these are the kind of figures you have to point out.

A lot of them were double agents during the war. But Robert A. Winston, he wrote this book called the Pentagon case where he basically outlines all of the various, um, all of the various sort of, all of the various, the various subversions that occur in the United States, both in the Pentagon, I apologize, I'll ask my train of thought for two seconds, I was trying desperately to get it back. The Pentagon, for example, he talks about things like how inside the Pentagon images of wounded soldiers with, you know, in pain getting treated by medics, were placed everywhere as a demoralization tactic. instead of triumphant photographs of soldiers coming back from a bombing run or something like that.

Stuff as little as that. He talks about stuff like how pornographical magazines and that the dumbing down of the English language occurring with mass media is being purported and pushed on the front of newspaper stands. And that educational standards were dropping amongst children. This is all kind of related to this. I don't mean to sound like a character in, what's the movie? What's the, how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb? Dr. Strangelove, I don't mean to sound like General Ripper with all of this, right? With my precious bodily fluids being taken.

But this is all like, you know, this is all just obvious. IQ scores have dropped. Literacy rates have more or less dropped. Most people can't read at an 11th grade reading level. And all of this was kind of pointed out by this individual, Robert A. Winston, who wrote this book and published it the year after McCarthy died. Because the, you know, the quote-unquote red scare, as it's called, you know, you're scared of something because that thing can do you harm. All right. So it was a very, it was a very justified scare.

And, you know, he kind of gets contained with a lot of these people into the John Burton. But this was, this was, this was, this was real at the time. There was a significant portion of the U.S. population kind of wondering what was going on and why, why this great victory that they had achieved in World War II, which America was the most powerful nation on earth with the best industry, with the most strong army, the best political, quote unquote, the best political system and all this other stuff and how they just all pissed it away in the decades after. I don't know. I mean, I just don't know why. I don't know why any of it was done. Well, quibono, who benefits? And it always comes down to that. It comes down to everything.

I mean, we see it today. I applied that today to the whole Kanye thing. It's like, okay, who's benefiting from him going out and saying these things? not us i don't know that i do not not not the individuals uh not the individuals uh not the individuals that tend to as uh traditionalist or you know even even you know further right than conservative individual basically normal people with normal opinions who just want the united states and other countries like it to remain true to what they've always been to these founding principles It doesn't benefit us.

You know, I mean, some people, I have disagreements with my mentor over this. You know, I'm not going to discuss Adolphus Heedler one way or another. But like, you know, how does it benefit us to go on national television and just start talking about this individual and all that other stuff? Because he's been dead for 70 years. Whether you think he was the greatest man who ever lived or the worst villain who ever lived, he's been dead for 70 years. and he never came to my country. I mean, I mean, that doesn't benefit us. That doesn't benefit us.

It's like you said, quibono, what benefits us? The, to bring this back to where we started with McCarthy, you look at something like his speech there, and you see how far we've fallen. Look at the prose. Look at what he's saying. Look at how he's saying it. Look at the desperation in his voice.

Do you see anyone on the quote unquote right now, even those the America first Trumper people, you know, who've been elected to office, speaking with the kind of urgency that he's speaking of. I mean, we are living in a time that is much more dangerous than he was living in. And who are the ones who are screaming loudest? Who are the ones who are trying to put a message out there that sounds halfway intelligent in the current world we live in?

Podcasters? Substack writers? I mean, look where we are, man. I mean, this is like, it's literally up to us. There is no Joseph McCarthy out there. It's up to us. And the ones that do show themselves are always going to be fair weather friends who just know where the wind is blowing.

Yeah. Yeah. I was reading a, I shared a tweet today. I think it was, or it was, I might have shared it on Facebook. I'm still on Facebook because it's a great place to promote the show and everything like that. But it was a tweet that said, where is it? He said, look, I'm not saying that forming a traditionalist monarchy somewhere in northern Ohio with the plan of reconquering America over five centuries is a realistic plan. I'm just saying it's more realistic than thinking voting Republican will get anyone out of this.

I think it's more realistic than I'm thinking voting will get anything out of this generally. I know I make a lot of hay. I make people angry. Oh, Paul Fahrenheit, he's a registered Democrat. I just, I say that because I want to tell. I'll tell you all the reason why I say that right now. Voting doesn't matter. Voting has never mattered, all right, in the United States.

You know what matters? It matters where in the pipeline of power you sit. And guess what? The pipeline of power is a lot more accessible than people think it is. It's a lot more accessible than just going up to Congress and whipping up a frenzy about, you know, one thing or another. You know, even if there is something to have a frenzy whipped up about, and even when the time favors it, now is a lot different. Now, now all that matters is basically going out and trying to, trying to build things with each other, trying to support each other, trying to aid each other, and trying to make sure that something like what happened to Senator McCarthy, who will be rehabilitated, and there will be statutes for him, can never happen to any of us.

Yeah. You know, it's I think one of the easiest ways to get into that position of power. If you live in a small town, run for sheriff. Run for sure. It's the one thing that the John Birch Society always had right was that if you have a strong sheriff who is dedicated to liberty and dedicated to localism and dedicated to his town. and hates the federal government. You have something that most locales don't have. Or if you have a sheriff that already does that, you don't need a run for sheriff, but be one of his top guys. Yeah.

Be one of the guys supporting them, supporting him, show up, show up to his rallies, show up, you know, go door to door. You know, it really does start with you. And in all honesty, if you have, you know, we were talking about, I do a weekly space. I know we're coming pretty close to the end here, But I do a weekly space on my Twitter every Wednesday night.

The time varies. But I think I'm going to have it be from like 8 p.m. to 10 p.m. in the future, Eastern Standard. But we were talking about this on Wednesday night in this space I do on Twitter called Paul's Garden Party. And we had an individual who actually was very active in local government and was very well aware of what occurred within localities. And he basically said, look, you have a couple of people, less than 10 people. If you're friends with less than 10 people and you all live around the same area where you can move them to around the same area within a year, you could more or less take over a locality. You could have people run for town council, county treasurer, stuff like that. And that is where you basically control everything.

At least not control everything, but basically you're at that point. You're at that node. You have contested that node. And that's what it takes. That's what it's going to take. That's not where you stop. The problem is a lot of people think that's where you stop is your local community. You don't stop.

There's always a next step, but that's the first step. That's the first step. And shut up about what you're doing. You know, I mean, getting together and having a plan and showing people a plan for what you're doing is important to the people on the ground who are helping you who are hoping to be helped by you. but when it comes to really laying out what you're doing publicly, shut up. But yeah,

I've written a lot about, you know, having a plan and having a plan. And I think people are like, then people are like, well, talk about what you, and I'm like,

look, I'm in the middle of my own plan. I'm not going to tell you what the hell I'm doing. You know, I'm not telling you where I'm going and, you know, what I'm looking at. And,

yeah, here's a comment. Libertarians have been trying to do this in New Hampshire. Sure. Okay, you got a couple of problems with New Hampshire. One, it's cold as hell and people don't want to move there. Two, you're surrounded by liberals who all they have to do is cross the border and go into the state. And three, a lot of those, that's not going to work unless they're explicitly right wing. See Robert Conquest. And I've been to New Hampshire twice to speak at free state, free state project events. And yeah, they're,

The right wingerers are there, but they are outnumbered. The right wangers who call themselves libertarians there are outnumbered. And that just doesn't work. It doesn't work. So, you know. Yeah, we have a super chat here actually real quick that I would like to read out. From Paul W. Paul W. Hall, rather, for three U.S. dollars.

Thank you very much, Mr. Hall, for supporting the old glory club. And he says, were there any ties between McCarthyite Republicans and Strom Thurman-Style Southern Democrats? I'd imagine they'd have been natural allies in this period. Well, you would think that the problem with Strom Thurman and the problem with Southern Democrats, and this is something that myself and individuals like Ryan Turnip Seed and Christopher Sandbatch have tried to get into the consciousness, is that the Southern Democrats were interested pretty much first and foremost in what benefited the South, specifically their own state. Strom Thurmond very rarely got involved.

This is one of the things, one of actually the strengths the Southern Democrats did. Other than like the whole civil rights issue, the Southern Democrats didn't really speak up one way or another on much of anything. Yeah, they set a couple of platitudes here and there, you know, about how communist subversion was, you know, probably not the best thing. But they weren't very involved with the McCarthyite Republicans. This was actually kind of limited to McCarthy himself and his coterie. Well, on that note, I think we should get going.

I know you kind of have a hard out. So you want to, I'll just say the Pichignano show. And I'm going to try to put some of our talks up on my feed and drive some people here to the old glory. Club because I really believe in what we're doing, even if I always seem to be traveling on Tuesday nights. But the, yeah, so the Pete Cagnon's show podcast is everywhere. And petesubstack.com. What do you have to say? Oh, just, you know, follow me on Twitter at Cab King Paul, subscribe to my substack, even though I haven't published anything for like a month and a half, two months. But I have, I have a bunch of articles in the hopper right now. And I'm probably

going to put them out in a flurry when I get some time on telegram, Hotel Fahrenheit. But more important than all of that, support the old glory club, like, share, support all of our content, and I'm a be friends with everyone that you know in your life. Well, thank you everyone for showing up. I think we had close to 100 people on this one at one point. Thank you for the super chat. and until the next time.