The Pete Quiñones Show - *Throwback* Rejecting Ideology and Building Aristocracy w/ Charlemagne

Episode Date: March 26, 2025

58 MinutesPG-13Charlemagne is a content creator on YouTube and Substack and a member of the Old Glory Club.Charlie joined Pete to talk about the usefulness of ideology in the modern world. They discuss what they believe should eventually replace it.Charlemagne's Find my Frens PagePete and Thomas777 'At the Movies'Support Pete on His WebsitePete's PatreonPete's SubstackPete's SubscribestarPete's GUMROADPete's VenmoPete's Buy Me a CoffeePete on FacebookPete on TwitterBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/the-pete-quinones-show--6071361/support.

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And I hope to expand the show even more than it already has. Thank you so much. I want to welcome everyone back to the Pekignano show. Charlemagne's back. How you doing, Charlemagne? Excellent. I was actually just listening to your episode with Turnip Seed right before we started. So always very interesting to hear his trials and tribulations.

That's for sure. Right before we started, I was listening to him speak live with Orin on YouTube. he was talking about the same subject. So, yeah, just trying to, try to get as much from, learn as much from him, because, you know, I see the same thing in churches all over the place. I've seen, started seeing that kind of stuff 20 years ago where you started seeing the infiltration of leftist ideology making, making its way in. And, I mean, I saw that. I noticed it in the Southern Baptist Convention 2001 and 2002. And, you know, pretty much since Vatican 2, the Catholic Church has been fighting with this. So, you know, both of the churches I went to on a pretty regular basis are suffering the same kind of, same kind of issues everyone else is.

And, I mean, the Southern Baptist Convention has gone, you know, completely off the rails in a lot of ways. And Catholicism, well, all we can hope to, at this point, all we can hope to do is find a home parish where the priest is, you know, older, old fashioned and, you know, that's really about it. And I think that's what a lot of people are doing as far as Protestants, everyone's doing is like, you find that one church and then you hope that the pastor, if you have a base pastor, you hope he doesn't retire. And then in comes, you know,

Pastor Jim, who, you know, has as a goatee and long hair. Yeah, I think I've been pretty lucky with this. I haven't interrogated this subject, but I just estimate that, you know, after about two years or so of attending mass here, the word Ukraine and Israel has not been mentioned once by anyone. So I'm just going to assume that he's pretty based. Well, shockingly, there's two Catholic churches I go to here on a regular basis. And I mean, we're in the South, we're in the Bible, you know, there's the Bible belt. I do notice that a lot of the people who go to Catholic churches down here are transplants from elsewhere or people who may have found Catholicism in the military or something like that. If they are Southern,

they are from around here. But yeah, lucky too, not hearing it, not hearing that at all. And if I did, it would be, it would be sad because where I live, finding a Catholic church is like, it's like going out and trying to find a, trying to find a, you know, bar of gold in one of the local streams or something like that. All right. Let's talk a, I ask you to come on to talk about ideology. And something I've been thinking about lately, and I'll just, I'll, I'll, give you a short introduction of where my thought was a simple way I'm thinking is that people on the far right. And I'm not talking about far right, like how, you know, people we know, I'm talking about people who would consider themselves to be on the far right, but more normie,

like, you know, some of the MAGA people, some of the MAGA people who are even, you know, quoting Carl Schmidt now and putting out, talking about Franco or things like that, they're set in their ways, the progressives all the way to the, So the other side are set in their ways. So coming at them with an ideology that is counter to what they already believe is probably a fool's errand. And then for the most part, I think the people in the middle who've checked out or who are, you know, they vote for whoever they think is the coolest or something like that, they're pretty much non-ideological. So when I look at like the political landscape in the country, if you, want to make inroads into politics now if you want to be able to get one of the existing parties

to at least listen to you you're going to have to be pretty much lined up with their ideology maybe slightly you know maybe a slight difference but if it's too far out of the realm of possibility or if it's too far out of what they already believe they're not going to listen to you that's either side. And then when you come at the center with ideology, people who are non-ideological, they just think you're some kind of bookworm, you know, lunatic, and they kind of side out you. Am I seeing the American public, the American electorate, if you want to call it that, properly? Yeah, I think so.

People are either strictly ideology or strictly non-ideological. I've been thinking about ideology a bit myself lately because it sort of relates to the subjects I've been researching and reading on for my speech that I'm giving in two weeks or so at the old glory club where I'll be talking about political formulas primarily and also our Constitution in the United States. And I think, well, it's interesting researching the history of what we would now call classical liberalism because this concept wouldn't really appear in people's things. at the time when that type of thinking would have been prevalent. Like if you look at English common law and if you look at things like the Declaration of Independence, which our friend Christopher Sandbad just wrote a little piece on Twitter, and if you look at our Constitution, the way Anglo-American law developed isn't really from an ideological basis,

so much as a normative basis that described like basically the circumstances under which people, are already accustomed to being ruled. And documents like the Magna Carta, for example, aren't really ideological documents so much as codifications of the normative expectations of the English people. Same goes for our declaration and constitution on all these famous documents. The founders get maligned by people on the right, especially, as like these classical liberals.

And of course, Curtis Jarvin sort of assaults them as, as these big liberals in the face of right-wing absolute monarchy. But this sort of ideological type of thinking didn't really come around until mainly the 19th century. And it wasn't really something that motivated people back then. So it's a pretty new phenomenon. And I think we often incorrectly project our modern ideological thinking onto people in the past. And that leads to many incorrect assumptions. about what we should or shouldn't do based on the traditions of our ancestors.

So I think ideological thinking is very polluted by this phenomenon in general because it goes a long way to actually obscure our perspective of the past. Then again, people are ideological now and we do have to grapple with that. Before I say more, what do you think of anything I just said there? Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28th to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favourite Liddle items,

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Okay, could you read out the letters on the wall? for me. Yep. D-E-A-L-S? Yeah, D-E-A-L-S. Deals. Oh, right. Yes, our Black Friday deals are eye-catching, but the letter chart's over here. Oh, sorry. At Speck Savers, we've got all sorts of unmissable Black Friday deals. Like up to 70 euro off one pair of designer glasses. Offer ends on 7th of December 2025. Conditions apply. Ask in store for details. No, it makes a lot of sense. You know, when you think about the Constitution, if you read the Constitution, it doesn't take very long, it's not a long document. It's when you get rid of

the Bill of Rights, when you get down into the, you know, into how they're designing government, what can you say in there is classically liberal? What can you say in there is enlightened, you know, is enlightenment thinking? I don't know that there really is anything in there. I mean, it leaves the door open for taxation. I mean, you can, it leaves a door open. open for 100% taxation if need be. So really, I mean, a lot of people will look at the constitution and have taken it apart. People who are honest and said, you know, it's very easily can lead to tyranny. It can be used for tyranny. Yarvin makes the argument that, you know, you could basically use, you could make yourself a dictator just using the constitution.

and I've read his argument at length, and it makes 100% sense. So, yeah, you know, this is one thing that when you start looking at dissonant thought, when you start looking at the counter-enlightenment thinkers, you start to understand that ideology, or I will say, constitutions, the Magna Carta, yeah, these aren't things that were put in place to control a people. They're more looking at the Constitution or the Magna Carta or any kind of proto document before the American Constitution.

You're looking at a, people are putting down on paper a reflection of the values of the people that this paper is, you know, the polity that this paper. is dealing with. And I don't think that that can be that can be argued. I think it can definitely be argued that people say that the most totalitarian states are the ones that have the most laws. You have to keep adding laws and adding laws and adding laws. And if you have to keep adding laws, if you have to keep changing things, if you have to keep amending, then what the document was originally supposed to reflect is gone. It doesn't. reflect the people that it's it's not a picture of the people that it's supposed to reflect in the

first place now you mentioned at the beginning there um whether or not you know the constitution itself is as a liberal document or something like that um you know i have been reading schmidt's the crisis of parliamentary democracy lately which i think is his best book to be honest i mean one of the one of the great things about schmidt is that he uh he spends a lot of time defining all the these terms like liberalism and democracy and parliamentism and disambiguates them from one another. Too often liberalism and democracy or treat it as the same thing and they're not, you know, he makes the point that democracy can serve basically in the end. It can be reactionary. It can be liberal. It can be socialist. It can be really whatever you want. This sort of ties into your

original point that, you know, to the extent people are ideologically democratic and you can you can work that with a political formula that remains true to the idea of democracy and yet serve some entirely different end than liberalism. If they're not strictly ideologically liberal but they're more ideologically concerned about having a democracy

which is what maybe you would say like the American right or conservatives or centrists are they're not necessarily liberals but they are Democrats. That's that's a means by which you can sort of subvert the the tying of liberalism and democracy together. So I think it's important to have a grasp on what these terms actually mean and whether or not, you know, the foundation of this country is fundamentally liberal or not. And whether or not you can work the Constitution if people care about that, which they do,

to be more reactionary. this is something we have to address, you know, in terms of right-wing ideology, right? People have gotten very ideological about republicanism and the Constitution, and there's this sort of reaction where it's like, okay, we just need to throw out the Constitution. Like, that's our goal. That doesn't really make any sense because it's a very, that's actually a very anti-traditional perspective. If you look at, you know, the history of the English and American people, you're basically talking about throwing out the type of government.

system we've used to the last 500 years, which is kind of a bizarre position for a right winger to take. It's also, you know, just entirely impractical. Like people, you know, Moscow, Mosca talks about political formula, right? You know, Moscow himself, interestingly enough, regards, if you read the ruling class, representative government as basically the best form that Europe could be under, at least when he was alive, which is quite interesting, right? Because He's sort of this, you know, today people kind of throw around the idea of political formulas. This is like cynical conception and it's just something the elites use to govern us. But, you know, Mosca seems to think there's something to a Republican form of government.

Anyway, you know, if people really care about the Constitution, right, and they do, you can you can sort of argue to people that the Constitution's no longer, you know, like really enforced. in the way it was when the country was created, right? And that's a useful point that Aaron McIntyre makes. It's like people have to have to like get over the Constitution, right? Like you can't just appeal to it as an argument at this point because, you know, your opponents don't care anymore. That said, you know, taking that and trying to convince people that, you know, we just need to throw out the Constitution because it's like fundamentally liberal or something doesn't really make any sense either because that's very much against American ideological sensibilities. So you're sort of like, you're working against yourself when you try to do that.

It's much better to try and argue, okay, how could the, we actually, we're not anti-democracy. What we're against is we're illiberals. And what we want is, you know, a democratic society in which the people who are enfranchised with the right to vote and the people who are citizens, maybe those aren't even the same thing, are a limited set of people. And this is, classically democratic by by any conception and it can be completely reactionary so you don't have to you know lump all these ideas together and you don't have to like insist that we need some sort of you know based monarchy or something like that which is just a ridiculous idea to to you know pitch to americans right that doesn't make any sense no one's going to accept that and you you know

you're you're basically try to impose your sort of boutique ideology on people if you try to like you know come at normal Americans with like some idea of of you know Catholic monarchy or whatever kind of of monarchy you have in mind or even fascism like this just doesn't appeal to people so you need to figure out how to how to work the existing you know political formula degenerated as it is in your favor using the the concepts people expect right americans just expect that we're going to be governed by some sort of republican system that's federalized among many states there's no world in which you're going to convince people that actually we need like a king or an emperor or something that I kind of view that as ridiculous and kind of productive. So what do you think?

Well, one thing I wanted to bring up is, and I agree with you, people are going to revolt if you, if they've bought into the civic religion and you try to take the civic religion away from them. It's just basically the same thing as trying to take people's religion away from them. They're going to revolt, no matter how much you may not like it. What I wanted to say was from reading Sam Francis and his reviewing of James Burnham, he says, he's of the opinion, Francis, that what Burnham is saying is that ideology is for the masses, that those in power don't really have an ideology other than power. These in-the-box ideologies like republicanism, progressivism, and some of these are, you know, who knows, republicanism,

you can nail down a little more. Progressivism is whatever works at the time. Just seems to be like a power kind of ideology. Or libertarianism, which is something like this completely in the box. You know, there's libertarians who are like, We cannot allow anything in this box or we're not pure libertarians anymore. These are basically goods that are sold to the masses to keep them arguing amongst themselves or it's something that is sold by elites to get them to come on their side.

And, you know, people vote for the, you know, the conservative. And, you know, they never get a conservative. They get, you know, most conservatives famously, I forget who's saying. said this, they run for office like libertarians and then they, they govern like Democrats. So is ideology even real when it comes down to it? Or is it just something that is sold to the public to make them feel like they're a part of all of this and that they have a team and that there are people out here who are on your side and they're politicians, people with power.

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Trump on Dunbiog, Kosh Farage. Yeah, I think Burnham's probably a little too cynical in the way he views ideology, but, yeah, I mean, mostly in everything I just described, like the way you sort of sell yourself to the masses, like the ideology or in a distilled form, the political formula, isn't the rules you follow, right? That's just how you sell you being in power or your faction being in power to people.

But you don't have to be bound to that in terms of how you actually govern. You could set up sort of a sort of a, you know, you could set up a sort of a pseudo-Christian nationalist like oligarchy behind the mantle of, you know, democratic republicanism with federal government, you know, and everything I just described. Like those things, we don't have to bind ourselves to strictly following some set of rules in terms of, you know, how we would theoretically actually govern, you know, assuming any faction like that's sympathetic to us actually comes to power. I mean, I think elites, certainly some elites have ideologies that drive them. I mean, I think if you look at someone like Thomas Jefferson, for example, to go back to the founders, you know, he clearly, you know, he was president of the United States, for example. we can't we certainly can't deny that he was among the ruling elite he was certainly much more ideological than you know his his nemesis for example Alexander hamilton who I think was much more Machiavelli and not that's necessarily bad I think Hamilton's kind of based actually uh but that's

kind of getting off the subject like the the elites uh some of them are more ideological than others ideology in general is kind of a poisonous word I mean it like you said people treat it like a religion I think it's for us, I think it's more important for us to be as true to our religious faith as much as possible. And assuming any of us were anywhere near power, we would have to be in the difficult situation of making whatever compromising is with that where we're necessary because that's the reality of politics, right? I think a lot of people on the sort of online right don't get that either is you can't ever govern in this sort of idealized way. there's always going to be deep compromises you have to make. And ultimately, for better or worse, you do kind of have to end up being more concerned with just maintaining your power than anything else. You know, because people react strongly and can be provoked to react strongly by other opposing factions.

If they're, you know, material interests aren't met or, you know, as we see if they're deep-seated ideological beliefs are violated, you know, be it a sacred democracy. right now or you know something something bootler you know that sort of thing so I guess to answer your question I mean I don't take the view strictly speak I don't take this this deeply cynical view that that elites just don't believe really anything other than power I think there's there's some there you know I don't like to view elites just at this singular group either as some people do there there are some people who are more ideological. You know, I think we can see that someone like Elon Musk certainly has certain ideological convictions. I think he's less committed to free speech than he claims to be, right?

But he certainly has some real conviction there in regards to freedom of speech and that's sort of like this sort of libertarian thing he has. I don't think, I think it would be kind of weird to deny that, you know, Musk himself doesn't have some sort of like genuine ideological belief, although his actions clearly, you know, demonstrate certain compromises, specifically around, you know, the subject of, you know, Jews and Israel in order to maintain his power. Anyway, what do you think? I think Musk is at the point now where he's just, I think he has goals that he hasn't

shared with anyone, which is good. I mean, he doesn't have to. and he's basically doing whatever he needs to do right now to achieve those goals. And I'm not saying that those goals are benevolent or whatever. They're his goals. And they may include large sections of mankind. It's, that's neither here nor there. I mean, there is, right now he has, I mean, he has enough power to make, you know, 13 members of media matters get, and be fired and watch them.

I'm crying on Twitter, which is, you know, the schadenfreude is terrible, but, you know, you've got to love it. I guess what I'm thinking is, in our country, if we were to actually have order again, if we were to actually have a country again, is, you mentioned religion. So, you know, one should be ideological about what they believe. One should be ideological about how they treat family, how they treat kin, how they treat. how they treat people who are like-minded and share their values. Do you think the Constitution or the people at large and the people of the country would be okay with, I mean, to me, if you have a group that shares an ideology, the main goal of power should be to protect that ideology and make sure that it goes forward.

and make sure it's not subverted. That's why you use as much power as you need for that. Economics, all that kind of stuff, that's in the background. That's not as important as having a cohesive unit, a cohesive group of people that are not being subverted from the outside or within. So if, in my opinion, people who share values, the state is to has one goal and that's to protect them and to make sure that they can practice those values and that those values aren't under attack and those values stay in you know stay in place

is that a realistic goal for this country for i mean not even national but state or i mean i think it can work out locally but state or national does that even seem like it's remotely, remotely what people who are, you know, love the Constitution would, you know, agree to. Probably not in a direct way, you know, one of the reasons we are no longer governed by the Constitution as a political formula right now, it's sort of our current formula ties back to that ultimately, but now we just say, now our political formula's more just like mass democracy and liberalism.

If you want to actually protect your ideology, then you have to make sure the people themselves have to be fit for it, right? Like one of the problems we have on the right is that the people, for the most part, including many of us, really, are no longer even fit to be governed in the ways we sort of harken back to. Like, we're not actually fit to maintain that. So if you want to actually implement some sort of, you know, right-wing ideology, I guess, what the state should be doing to the extent that you as a right-wing or have any influence over it at all, local, whatever, is putting in policies that make the people more fit for the type of the type of people you want them to be, maybe the type of people you want them to be. type of people they were or their ancestors were in the past.

I guess you could use the word, the German word, the mention material, right? And I don't mean that in like the strictly biological sense. Like we don't actually have the mentioned material at this point in America to really be governed by anything other than that liberal democracy. So really the first goal starting from yourself at Family Outward is to actually even make people fit to be governed. by a different political formula that's not liberal democracy before even really trying to convince them because there's no there's no way to have that be implemented and accepted and stable if the people

aren't fit to be governed by it because they're not going to maintain it because you know ultimately as we say the masses do have to accept the the political formula that they're under to to view their their government as legitimate at all and you can't really sell a highly reactionary mode of government to people who simply aren't fit for it. So, yes, I think it is a reasonable goal to, you know, have whatever level of government is possible to try and protect an ideology if you want to put it that way. But I would say the better way to phrase that is your goal should be to have your government improve the

physical, spiritual health of the people so that they are better fit to be governed more appropriately rather than try and I guess force it down people's throats because then you're just going to get expelled because people won't put up with you.

So you kind of have to go about it in this I guess you might call it like a long march, right? Because it takes a long time to get in shape, right? If you want to boil this down to the idea of like exercising yourself, it takes a long time to like make yourself physically fit. Same thing for, you know, spiritual and mental fitness for a more Christian or traditional political

formula. The people are going to have to be massaged and worked into that over a very long period because, you know, just everyone's a liberal now is really what it comes down to. So it's never going to be realistic, I think, for us to have some sort of hugely reactionary government in power at a federal level because it's just going to take far too long for changes to propagate that far. So I don't know. What do you think? I would love for us to have the goal of everybody becoming. you know, like an Ernst Younger type an anarch.

But I don't even know if that's, how possible is that? When you look at the last hundred years, technology just seems to have beaten toughness out of people. You know, the toughest people you're going to find in this country are really people are still working on farms. still working manual labor, still breaking rocks, still digging with their hands. I think we've talked about Kaczynski before, you know, and Shakalul as well. I mean, I just don't know what it would take to be able to get, you'd have to get basically every, you know, the patriarch of every family or most families and the community leaders.

It would have to start at the most low. I think it would have to start at the most local level and work its way out for that to become a thing. Yeah, and, you know, sure, the government talking up, talking up programs of, you know, physical fitness and working with your head and doing things like that, being able to basically take care of yourself and take care of the people around you. I'm, yeah, I think you're right. I just don't know how much of an insurmountable task that is at this point. Ready for huge savings? We'll mark your calendars from November 28 to 30th because the Liddle Newbridge Warehouse Sale is back. We're talking thousands of your favorite Liddle items all reduced to clear.

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Step outside and be captivated by the Wild Atlantic Surounds. Your five-star getaway, where every detail is designed with you mind give the gift of a unique experience this Christmas with vouchers from trump dune beg search trump ireland gift vouchers trump on dunebiog kush farraga yeah the way i would approach this is basically uh you need to turn your children into super bend pretty much like that's that's kind of the way i mean i think let's be honest if you're like listening to podcasts on the internet you know frankly most people now are just total pussies compared to

literally anyone who's ever lived in the past right like that's just kind of our fallen state like we we suck uh but when you have blank templates uh like children if you are able and it might cost a lot of money if you're able to give them more classical education if you're able to make them um you know far more intelligent that their peers simply by you know homeschooling them at an accelerated rate uh and things like that and teaching them, you know, the types of skills and abilities that people just don't have anymore, you know, there's, there's the possibility that through their sheer standing in a future community and habit, they will be able to, you know, they'll be natural elites, right? I think there's, there's potential in our various communities to sort of, you know, create

natural elites by by training our own children appropriately and hopefully having large families all all you know developed as such so that they can you know support one another and you don't have these single points of failure i think that's that's the only possibility i think like trying to convince other people to become patriarchs and other people to do this is just not going to happen you know, maybe through example in the future, you can, you can sort of, you know, help people understand how to do this. But I think we, I think we really want to like try and almost recreate on purpose, you know, the type of person that hasn't really been seen in the English-speaking world in at least over 100 years, right? You know, and I mean like, you know, teaching your kids, Latin, teaching them how to play music, teaching them, scripture, teaching a manual labor scheme. skills, you know, there's really no reason why they shouldn't understand fairly advanced mathematics, you know, as a teenager as opposed to, you know, waiting to your 20s like we do now, you know, this sort of thing. If you're able to actually develop an individual like that who is, who has a mental, spiritual, physical capacity that's just way beyond all their peers, you know, 20, 30 years from now, you know, these could be the type of person, you know, maybe if they're

things go like more the way Mr. Charles Haywood sees them going, you know, these are the kind of people who can reestablish order. It's not going to happen because like, you know, our faction or something like somehow gets power in the government. I think it's going to have to be far more bottom up in order for any sort of order to be imposed on any level. So what do you think of that? Everybody wants to name something, right? It's like, well, what do you know, somebody asked me the other day what I do for a living. I still people ask me that. I'm a podcaster. You want to name something. So what would that be? What would that look like? What would the, if you were to call that an ideology, if you were to give it a name, if you were to give it,

it doesn't even have to have a name. Maybe what is the spirit of it? Natural aristocracy. Natural aristocracy. Yeah. Or artificial aristocracy is maybe a better term because that's basically what I'm recommended is is, you know, try and manufacture aristocrats, which I think actually is eminently doable. You know, a lot of, there are a lot of like aristobarpers, right? I mean, most of us can't be aristocrats by constitution. I have a lot of books, though, on how to be, on how aristocrats were trained at what they were like.

You know, I'm confident that maybe, you know, maybe I can't be an aristocrats. but maybe I'm good enough to produce someone in the future, you know, at offspring who could be like that. If I applied myself, I think it would be extremely difficult, but it wouldn't be impossible, right? I could never, ever turn myself into an aristocrat. It can't happen. And I mean like in Evelyn's conception here, right? Not like having some stupid title or something. Maybe I could produce a child that could be like that.

And if not, at the very least, perhaps, you know, my grandchildren could be aristocratic, right? That's kind of the time horizon I'm looking at. So, yeah, I would just call it natural aristocracy or just aristocracy is what I'm recommending. And it's, you know, it basically require like your entire life dedicated to the project if you're, you know, if you're able to become like a family man, right? But that is what that, to be clear, this isn't just something I'm coming up with. Like this is what I, basically what I intend to do with my life. That's partly why I moved to Montana, why I have a homestead. Like this is, this is my life plan, basically, for the next 50 years that I'm trying to figure out, you know, how to actualize.

So I have every intention of attempting to do this. Obviously, you know, I can't, I can't tell you how it's going to work out because, you know, I'm only just getting started, basically. But that is what I intend to do along the lines of, you know, what we're trying to achieve. Yeah, thanks for bringing up the fact that you, you know, you had moved to Montana because that's where I wanted to go next is, you know, I've been telling people since 2020 to get out of cities. That's what I did. I was, I didn't live directly in Atlanta, but I was adjacent enough to be, you know, pretty much all my neighbors worked in Atlanta. But, you know, and I catch crap for that because it's like, oh, you talk about how culture is important. But then, you know, if your whole family's in a city and everything, I get that. believe me believe me it's a struggle and you know something I struggle with I struggle with my thoughts and my ideas all the time people it's you know it's something that we constantly have to be tweaking and thinking about but how honestly can you see building these natural aristocrats can you see doing that in a city setting in a suburban setting I mean I'm just

I'm trying to picture how that works in my mind considering Yeah, there's just too much. Oh, frankly, no. There's too much pollution, like ideological pollution. It would not be possible. You know, you would have to, they would have to be sufficiently isolated from the modern world in their formative years,

where else the entire project would come to naught, right? So, like, you know, don't give them iPads and unlimited internet access and all this garbage. No modern films, you know, that sort of thing. you know, similar, you know, frankly, very similar to the type of childhood people used to have, even probably some people who potentially could even listen to this podcast. You know, they, and you're never, you're never going to achieve that if you're, you're in a city. You're just, you're not going to be able to protect your family from these things if you're, you know,

basically in the very den of it. This is very contrary to, you know, the type of, frankly, garbage people like Yarford will put out in the terms of like, you know, what they kind of view as an aristocrat, which, you know, are just these like degenerate liberal elites, right? That's that's no aristocrat. I totally reject this view. It's impossible to have a person, you know, you can produce power in cities, but power and aristocracy are not the same thing, right? And, you know, some people conflate these two, but they're not the same. And I don't, I do not think the suburbs or the cities are the places we can ever hope.

to produce such people and by the way I mean this isn't just like a purely ideological you know thing to like pursue in terms of raising a family like I think it's the most moral way to to raise children like this at this point is to is to protect them from the modern world as much as possible even if you're not trying to you know embark on this sort of strange project that I'm proposing here it's just like why the hell would you want to expose children to the way the world is right now.

I would just it would just seem like evil to me, right? But Charlie didn't you know that like Italian neighborhoods, you know, if somebody was messing around, if some black guy came in there, they used to beat the crap out of them and kick them out. All we have to do is bring that back

and we can get the cities back. I was literally told us on a Twitter space I was, I was on that we have to take back the cities. And I'm like, I don't, I'm not even 100% sure that human beings are designed to be in cities. Well, maybe one group, one group of people is designed to be cosmopolitan. Maybe they've evolved into that.

But, I mean, I'm, I'm 100% convinced, you know, it's, I've lived in two big cities. I grew up in New York City. I grew up and I spent a lot of time in Atlanta, over a decade in Atlanta. been around a lot of black people, a lot of violent black people. You go out to the country where I live and you meet a black person and usually they're the nicest person. You know, is yes, ma'am, yes, sir, everything. I think one of the biggest problems they have is they're in the cities. And I think it's another problem we have.

Anyone who's ever been to New York City and walked through New York City or maybe went in the subway, smile at somebody. Smile at a New Yorker and see what reaction you get. people go there and they become completely dehumanized. It's dehumanizing. You can't do. We are not designed to be in cities. And I will fight people over that. Yeah, well, as Thomas 7-7 has pointed out on this podcast, I think, is that, you know,

cities are kind of antiquated in America where, you know, they were originally sort of these mass worker barracks, like Detroit, for example. and that mode of economic organization doesn't exist anymore. Others will argue, I've seen them argue that, like, well, you have to be in cities because that's where the power is, which I already mentioned. I'm not even disputing that. But to me, it's like, do you want power or do you or do you want aristocracy? You can't really have both at the same time the way the world is currently organized. You know, I'm in the middle of the nowhere. You know, you're pretty remote now too.

Plenty people are. You simply don't need to be in a city anymore to get things done. and to be honest, America is developed enough at this point where if you do need to go to a city, it's like two hours drive away at most. I don't even think there's anywhere in the entire country you could live. That would put you more than three hours drive from the nearest city of 100,000 to report people. So, you know, it doesn't, the whole idea that like you're going to be living like the Amish or something, it doesn't make any sense.

Like, look, you have a car and things are developed enough in this country to where you can go to the city if you want. You don't have to live there. Now, of course, granted, you know, if you live in the city, you're going to develop these connections. But like I said, you can have power or you can have, you know, what I'm recommending, you can't have both. The city, there's simply, it's too degenerate and we don't need to be there. There's literally no, you don't take over a city by like living in it or something because we're, you know, we don't have the numbers for that. There's, I don't understand like how we're going to take back the cities. Just let them rot.

We don't need them. A lot of American cities don't even have some. grand historical value or something like that, you know, like a place like Paris or Rome, right? I mean, you know, especially on the West Coast, it's not like there's some deep centuries-long tradition of, you know, European men living in these places like, you know, some place like San Francisco, L.A., like it's sad what's happened to these places, but, you know, to hell with them. We don't need this. We can do our own thing without it. I don't get it. I get it if like your family's been there forever.

and you have family there and you don't want to leave your family. Believe me, I get all that. But, I mean, if your goal is to live a life where you're, it's harder for somebody to reach out and touch you, or, you know, you just want to build something that is classic, is something that is more historical. I think, you know, Thomas talks about living historically. I think it's a lot, easier to live historically, you know, on, on an acre of land in a, in a little house where you can actually grow food and maybe even have some chickens than it is in an apartment that you're renting, you know, in some, some neighborhood where, you know, if you, if the power goes out for a week, you're screwed, or if Hurricane Sandy comes through, your, your food supply is completely cut off.

It just, I'm not getting the arguments for that other than from people who live in the city and just don't want to leave. Don't think that they could get along and are, you know, just, you know, basically accepted cosmopolitanism. You know, Thomas says he's a city guy. He doesn't want to leave. You never, you never hear him complaining about the city, though. Yeah, exactly. These are people, yeah, these are people, you know, who are like, man, you know, it's like, we got to take this, but you're not taking it back. You're not taken aback.

The best thing we could do if we had if we had power was to wall it off and let people let them meet each other. Yeah, I mean, if you if you are a city person, like I'm not saying everyone has to move out of the city, right? If you, if you thrive in the city and that's where you want to be, you know, that's totally fine, you know, live wherever you want. But the idea that like we need to take back the cities. It's like, I'm not taking back cities, dude. I'm going to do I'm going to live where I'm comfortable and where I could feel I can live my life in like the appropriate way, right? So if you're a city person, you know, fair enough. And, you know, I also had to deal with, you know, it's hard to move.

It's not good, right? I mean, really, you know, my family, you know, sailed on a boat from France in about 1650, right? My family's been in New Orleans, Louisiana since 1650, roughly. And I had to move. And that was a hard choice to make. most of my family had moved away already so it was a lot easier. I still had to leave a lot of friends behind

which made it difficult. So it's a difficult choice and it's, you know, it sucks to make the choice. But, you know, it is a choice that's available. And if you're in a position where you can make that choice, you know, I wouldn't discount it. You don't, you don't like lose, you don't somehow become irrelevant by being in rural America.

Like we have Starlink and things like that now. this weird you know again right wingers tend to have a hard time keeping up I guess with the modern world

and it's gotten to the point where we've actually progressed past the need to even organize ourselves in this classical conception of a city at this point you do not you don't need to be in these places necessarily in order to achieve your goal

or at least not all of us do. Yeah, I mean, if you want to be there, I mean, have at it. I mean, can you imagine like trying to, like getting a hundred of your friends to move into like a neighborhood in New York City and it's like, okay, we're going to change the politics in New York City. What? I mean, what? What do you talk? What are you talking about? How?

You become the weather underground and you start blowing stuff up. I mean, you can't do, it's impossible. It's completely captured. I just don't get it. You know, if you want to live there, don't, you know, don't complain about it. And I won't, yeah, and I'm not going to judge you if you want to live there. But, you know, don't judge me when I'm telling people get the hell out of cities. Because it's best, you know, it's what's best for you.

I talk to people all the time. I have people who contact me all the time who live in cities. And if it, you know, maybe it's their spouse or something like that, they can't, their job, their this, that, and everything. It's like, I mean, I get it. Just don't complain about it. You know, if you're going to complain about it, at least have a plan to get out. It took me a good, like four or five years of planning, you know, to get where, to get where I am.

And some stops and starts. You know, some, some starts where it was like, all right, I'm out. Oh, I'm back in. Oh, crap. All right. But, I mean, my life is better for it now. And people can say, well, what are you, you know, what are you doing to change where you live?

Part of the thing is, I don't really have to change anything here. This is pretty comfortable. This is, I mean, you know, if you live someplace where you, you know, where the politics is insane, the taxes are insane, you know, you're constantly coming under attack for your beliefs. There are places you can go that are already, you will be happy. You'll be 10 times more aligned with the people around you. And you'll be like, I don't know, maybe we should be planning ahead because, you know, something could happen, you know, 10 buses full of Haitians could show up and drop, you know,

drop off in the center of town or something like that. But there are places you can go right now where you really won't have a complaint in the world unless you're, you know, a complete, you're just so everything has to be so perfect. And you're, you know, you're just going to purity test everything around you. I mean, you can't, you're never going to have perfect. So, you know, give that up. Yeah, it's definitely really hard. to move as well. And if you're

if you're concerned about your future security well, if that's you know, you have all these rank order concerns, right? You have proximity to family and grandparents and friends and that you have security. I mean, you have to figure out what is your concern. If you're, I would tell you flat out if you're

top concern is your security, absolutely get the hell out of the cities. I mean, these are just dangerous places for any number of reasons at this point. You know, they're not safe to live in at all. So if that's if that's your concern, get out of there. I mean, you know, I do like monthly cost code runs, right?

If I logged off the internet, there could literally be, and I'm not even exaggerating. There could be a global nuclear apocalypse, and I would not know about it for a month, right? If I just logged off the internet and had my like monthly, if I had just completed like my monthly, you know, food run, I wouldn't even notice if there was a global nuclear war that wiped out 90% of the human population, wouldn't even notice, right? So that's what you can achieve You know, it only you know I don't know Took you four or so years You can achieve that sort of thing

If you really want to It's totally doable It's a big commitment But you know You have to kind of figure out What your priorities are But yeah I think this This whole idea of again

Taking taking back the cities It's just a silly idea You know If you have to figure out What are your primary concerns You know What does the future look like in this place? And in the city just flat out, it doesn't look good in any city anywhere.

I don't care what city you're in. The future is only down, right? And maybe you're the kind of person that like just you just have to be in the city, right? I mean, I think like, you know, I mentioned Sandbatch earlier. He just loves New Orleans, right? If that's where you have to live, no matter like how bad it gets and you still love it, you know, fair enough, right? This is sort of a, this question is on an individual by individual base.

and just sort of turning it into like this movement wide question of like do we need to be in the cities or not it's just totally the wrong way to think about it yeah and you know you ask what's most important and you mentioned safety and really i think at this point if you are somebody who thinks big who thinks historically who thinks for the future you know you you understand that you know you're you're planting trees that you'll never enjoy the shade of. I mean, survival. Survival is your number one. And I mean, 2020, we don't know that 2020 Kenosha isn't just the, you know, that was just a, that was just practice for something to come in the future.

Because I think people look at that and they think, oh, that can never happen again. No, that be, I, are you kidding me? Are you kidding me? That cities couldn't burn again, that they wouldn't, especially now where you, where certain groups do not get arrested and the only people who do get in trouble are the people who protect themselves against these groups? Survival, first and foremost, of you, if it's just you, your wife, if it's just two of you, your family, if it's all of you, that should be the most important thing. and to think that like survival is something that if survival is number one to you and you're in a city, that exit plan should have been, you should have been formulating that a long time ago.

Yeah, and there's still plenty of time too. I mean, one of the things people, I don't know, one of the things I see too is like Thomas shits on this all the time, which is this whole like prepper thing. It's like if you're like one of these preppers and you're living in a city, like this is just retarded. You're not, there's no like prepping your way out of it.

So sort of get rid of that fantasy out of your head, right? Like if you're going to live in a city, you need to accept what the future is going to look like and you need to have associates or like a way of carrying yourself and, you know, moving your family around that's going to work for you. But this whole idea of like prepping or whatever, that's just some sort of like weird, a delusional fantasy.

Yeah, I mean, you, you can have, if you live in the country, you can have storehouses of food, you can be growing food. Sure, sure, they can drone you. Is it, do you find it as amusing as I do that like people who, when people who live in cities are close to cities when you talk about, you know, why don't you move out further and, you know, start a garden, maybe grow some food, get some chickens, you know, maybe store some stuff up, do some canning, stuff like that. They like become obsessed with being droned. Yeah, it's like, who's going to drone me? Like, what, what possible situation are we going to be in where like that's a thing? I guess people are imagining some sort of a civil war.

But it's like, if there's a civil war, it's like, yeah, if you're fighting at it, you're going to get hit by drones like we see in the Ukraine. But if I'm just like at home farming, it's like with the U.S. government is just going to like randomly, just randomly bomb people who are like farming in the woods who are noncombatants. Like it doesn't even make any sense. It's just, it's this weird. highly personalized point of view like the government's after me specifically and they're going to like send send like air force units at me specifically to like take me out that's just never going to

happen that's some like bizarre fantasy from watching too many movies or something um so yeah you have to get all that stuff out of your head i mean i i don't the whole collapse scenario either you know i don't really see the whole civil war thing i don't really see you know that might even be uh less painful to live through the sort of, you know, long, long struggle we have to go through, you know, be it material or spiritual. Like, it's going to be a tough century for whoever is, you know, living to the, uh, the 2100s. Uh, but it's not going to be like, I don't, you know, I don't think there's going to be like hunter killer drones from the government, like trying to hunt you down in the woods or something.

Like, what scenario would that happen and it doesn't make any sense? they don't care about you enough. They don't care about you enough to even bother with that, you know. They'll just bring up Brandy Weaver or Waco or stuff like that. And it's like, look, if, I mean, if you think you're that special, okay, I mean, you think you're a special boy. And, you know, that they're going to, they're going to come for you. Sure, it's happened in the past. But it's the exception, not the rule.

I mean, the reason we talk about that is because it's so, it happens so rarely that something like that happens. Yeah, sure, there are SWAT raids, things like that, yada, yada. You know where there aren't SWAT raids? At where I live, there's no SWAT raids out here. It's like, you, if basically the police out here, if they think, if the police out here, like, got a call like to swat, like someone was trying to swat you or something like that. They're going to, they'll call you first. They'll call you.

I live in a town where the, where I tell them that I'm waiting for something in the post office and people in the post office call me. Hey, it came in. You're not going to get that in a city. You're not going to get that in a suburb. Okay. I mean, it's just, I don't know. know how people just you know people want to live people want to talk about high trust want to live

in a high trust society a lot of them already exist go find one that's my message i mean go find one they're here yeah definitely i mean where where i live people won't even like lock their doors necessarily um you know i do so don't try anything because you'll get blown away um but uh you know that's the kind of place it is right it's like there's like there's There's zero chance of anyone doing crime to other community members. It simply won't happen. Yeah. All right.

Well, let's wrap this up. What do you got to plug? Well, I mean, I guess we should definitely be plugging the event. What do we have like four or five rooms left for the event? Yeah. We actually do only have four rooms left, which can accommodate up to eight people, you know, depending on whether people buy the single or double tickets. So, you know, it's by the time you even here,

podcast they could have all been purchased already so if you still want to come to the conference you know you can check it out the old glory club.com slash tickets and you have your list of speakers there notably you know jeff diced and rann mackintyre and john doyle as well as numerous other people you know we're going to have a blast there so definitely you know come to that for me i've just got you know my substack is mainly where i produce stuff right now which is charlemagne Slipstack.com or Neo Reactor as I call it. Right now I'm actually doing some deep research

on the Suez crisis. I have like seven read books or something like that on Suez that I'm interrogating and I'm going to publish my next book review on several of those and I don't know. Maybe two weeks or more because

I'm a little slow on them with the you know with everything going on and also with preparing for my speech right but that'll be coming out and that's a little different from what been doing but yeah that's my plugs all right charlie thank you until the next time