The Philip DeFranco Show - He Was Banned From the Debate So I Asked Him Everything

Episode Date: April 13, 2026

Also if you know someone in Georgia send them this video rn Go to: https://fastgrowingtrees.com/IGF use code IGF to get 20% off your first order! Go to http://zbiotics.com/igf and use code IGF at checkout to get up to 15% off your first order. Go to http://proton.me/ingoodfaith to get started with Proton Mail. Sign up for a free account and take back control of your email. Find out more about Jason here: https://www.jasonesteves.com/?takeover LISTEN TO THE SHOW iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-philip-defranco-show/id1278424954 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/6ESemquRbz6f8XLVywdZ2V WATCH CRASHING OUT w/ PHILIP & ALEX Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCergKLoy-Yv9zlPk3XQYK7Q?sub_confirmation=1 Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/episode/2DkU87umhGH9mH1z24Bi9w?si=6sSdjhVNQjyVeBQDLiXcyg Apple: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/crashing-out-with-philip-defranco-and-alex-pearlman/id1843429519 WATCH/LISTEN TO MY PODCAST w/ TOMMY VIETOR Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/2CePXwDrvdQTes844wflKp?si=55a6b6049c4841ed Youtube: https://youtube.com/acw?sub_confirmation=1 iTunes: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/in-good-faith-with-philip-defranco/id1827016835 JOIN OUR COMMUNITY 📸Instagram: https://instagram.com/PhillyDeFranco 🐦Twitter: https://twitter.com/phillyd 🎵TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@philipdefranco Chapters 00:00 - Intro 02:58 - Why Democrats with name recognition are a big problem 04:58 - The formula to win in November 06:21 - Georgia legalizing recreational marijuana 07:04 - Georgia as a right-to-work state 07:33 - The Republican policy that has actually been good for Georgia 08:11 - The School vouchers debate 08:14 - The good and bad of Gov. Brian Kemp 08:55 - Geoff Duncan's problematic Democrat conversion 10:36 - The story behind DuncanforGeorgia.Net 11:33 - Pulling punches on primary opponents 13:07 - How Trump has changed the game 14:39 - Republicans are failing average people while helping billionaires 17:16 - Fixing Georgia's $5.15 minimum wage 18:46 - Expanding access to Medicaid 19:15 - Making childcare more affordable 20:07 - How Republicans justify a $5.15 minimum wage 22:06 - Sponsored by Fast Growing Trees 23:15 - Brian Kemp is holding $14.6 billion hostage 25:20 - Cutting taxes for the Georgians who need it most 25:42 - Building new healthcare hubs in Georgia 26:26 - Why Democrats have the wrong priorities 28:09 - Brian Kemp's failed healthcare expansion 30:42 - Blocking private equity from buying houses 32:13 - Increasing affordable housing 32:58 - Expanding first-time home buyer programs 33:33 - The fight for abortion rights in Georgia 34:25 - Defunding dangerous "fake" abortion clinics 35:06 - Sponsored by ZBiotics 36:15 - Supporting women’s reproductive rights 36:52 - Juggling abortion and religion 38:10 - Lessons learned from working at Equifax 40:19 - Georgia's broken senior care system is failing 43:42 - Balancing political life and personal life 44:55 - Sponsored by Proton Mail 46:06 - Balancing personal wealth and serving the community 47:52 - The need for Democrats to embrace wealth-building 48:44 - Supporting small businesses and cutting red tape 50:09 - Majority of Georgians don't want AI data centers near them 51:41 - Incentivizing green technology to lower energy costs 52:42 - Stacking energy agencies with Democrats 54:28 - The blueprint for Democrats to actually win in Georgia 56:37 - Georgia has the numbers to be a blue state 57:43 - The Georgia GOP has caused a healthcare crisis 59:22 - Republicans have made Georgia a bottom state for early learning 1:00:34 - How to mobilize voters to get off the couch THE TEAM Produced by: Ben Wheeler Associate Producer: Lili Stenn Edited by: James Girardier, Brendan Zoltowski, Maxwell Enright Art Department: William Crespo Writing/Research: Philip DeFranco, Ben Wheeler, Lili Stenn ———————————— #DeFranco #JasonEstevez #DonaldTrump Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Free of charge. BetMGM operates pursuant to an operating agreement with Eye Gaming Ontario. This is so important that you're actually getting too, And so when you're done, I'll see you right back here on the channel for your regular daily dose of fill. But with a midterm primary season already well underway and all eyes on the House and Senate, we also have to talk about one of the most significant races of the year that's actually happening in my home state of Georgia, and that is the governor's race. This is a race that has incredible potential to create real lasting change in Georgia in Georgia. For Georgia hasn't elected a Democratic governor in 27 years, but you have experts thinking that these midterms might be the best shot the Democrats have actually had in an entire generation.

For one thing, Trump's absolutely drowning in Georgia right now, 42% approval rating, 51% disapproval. And it's Not like this is some far-off flicker of hope. It's just a matter of mobilizing voters and getting voters off their couches and going to the polls. And I know that it feels like another lifetime. But Trump's first term created such a big wave that it swept Biden to victory in Georgia and flipped not one, but two Senate seats.

And Kamala Harris, she only lost the state by 115,000 votes in 2024, but that was also during a big red wave that created wider margins and other swing states. In fact, a gap in Georgia, it was smaller than Pennsylvania, Arizona, and North Carolina, all states that already have Democratic governors. And so there is a very real, big, important opportunity here,

but you also have many experts, saying that the Democrats, they might actually blow it if they don't play their cards right. And part of that, it's connected to who's been leading the Democratic side in the polling so far. You've got former Atlanta mayor, Keisha Lance Bottoms, who's polling around 32 to 35 percent. And then there's former Lieutenant Governor Jeff Duncan, who is actually a Republican until the last cycle. He got booted from Georgia's Republican Party, and so he became a Democrat and jumped into the race. But then, actually, there's also this third candidate who is now surging in the polls that most people in and outside of Georgia haven't even heard of yet. I'm talking about Jason Estabas.

He's a former school teacher, Atlanta Public Schools Board Chair, State Senator, and a small business owner. And while early polling had him as like kind of a blip at 3%, which is actually around the time that we set up an interview with him, by late March, he jumped to 14%, which actually put him in second place. And in Georgia's primaries, if nobody gets about 50%, which right now, Bottoms doesn't have, the top two go to a runoff. And so the race right now, it's really about who claims that second slot to go head to head with her. Here's absolutely the biggest thing. Nearly 40% of Democratic primary voters in Georgia are still undecided. That's bigger than Bottoms's entire lead with most people saying she's only polling so high because she's one of the only names people know. And so this race is wide open. A race, a race, where the primary is May 19th. The deadline to register is April 20th, so if you're a fellow Georgian, definitely go handle that. And if it goes to runoff, that's June 16. And so, you know, with all that said, I sat down with Estevez to try to figure out, you know, what is actually driving all this momentum that a number of people are missing? And why is it that the more that people find out about Estevez, the more that he surges to the top of the polls? And then along with that, try to figure out,

along with you, is he the candidate who can actually break the 27-year drought? Because there's just been criminally little attention paid to what could be one of the biggest, most important elections of the year. And hey, if you could do me a favor in addition to watching this, if you know Georgians, you have Georgians in your life, send them this video. Because while I had doubts at first, in my opinion now, certain powers that be you're trying to screw his chances. For example, there's a televised debate on 11 Alive here in Georgia on Wednesday, but they're excluding it. A guy who recent polling has in second place for what seems to be a BS arbitrary reason, and it highlights how important independent media is nowadays in bypassing the old gatekeepers. So really,

really, thank you for sharing this video so that it can get in front of Georgians and they can see all their options and form their own opinions. So your main primary point, Kisha Landspottoms. Yes. Right? She's got the name that more people know about right now, the CNN profile, the Biden connection. I think some of the last polling had her at 35%, which is actually down. You've gone from when we first set up this interview 3%. So I think most recent polling had you at 13%. Can you make the case right now to a Democratic voter who hasn't committed or is maybe going, well, I know her right now? Why do you think the name recognition isn't enough and why do you think you are the better bet come November? Yeah, well, look, I think that one,

We have to look at our records. And as a former one-term mayor of Atlanta, Keisha Lance Bottoms saw the city become more expensive under her leadership, and instead of doing anything about it, she chose not to run for election. During her leadership, we also saw the city become more divided than ever before. The Buckhead City movement, which threatened

to bankrupt the city of Atlanta, came about under her tenure, and was getting close to becoming a reality where Buckhead was going to split off from the city of Atlanta. And she did nothing about it. And instead of running for reelection, she cut and she ran. And as a result, we were fortunate enough

to get a new mayor, Andre Dickens, to come in. And even Andre Dickens called the time that we were in under her last year of her mayororship, one of Atlanta's darkest hours. So the record there is one that needs to be scrutinized. while I was on the school board having to deal with those impacts of what was happening in the city. Yet we were still able to turn around a school system that had been ravaged by a cheating scandal that was only graduating about 55% of its kids.

And by the time I was done, we were graduating more than 80% of our kids. And we were off of the front page. And Atlanta Public Schools was seen as a different school system than it once was. So the record matters. But at the same time, we have to win elections. And to win in November, we have to have a candidate that can build coalitions. We know the formula to win in November. You have to have a Democrat that can appeal to moderates and progressives in our base, right?

Both. At the same time, that same candidate has to also appeal to independence and those disaffected Republicans. I can do all three of those things. The former mayor won't be able to appeal to those independents and to those disaffected Republicans because of her record as mayor of Atlanta. The same thing goes for the former lieutenant governor, Jeff Duncan, who changed from being a Republican and passing some of the worst legislation that we've seen in the last decade

to now being a Democrat. I'm glad he has seen the light of day. But the Democratic base doesn't trust them. over a third of Democrats, whether they're progressives or moderates, don't trust Jeff Duncan. So we can't have a candidate, either one of those two, with higher name ID, who would fracture the coalition that is going to be necessary for us to win. I'm fortunate that I don't have the name ID because that is what wins in this state, us being able to focus on issues versus baggage. Okay, Jason, we're going to do a rapid fire-ish. section. Should Georgia legalize recreational marijuana? Yes or no?

Yes. Georgia's a right to work. And let me say this really quickly. Really quickly. Look, marijuana is legal in a couple dozen states. And there are people who are bringing that legal marijuana into the state. They're consuming it. There are also people who are going to jail into prison for selling something that is legal in other states. I think Georgia has to look at it. We have to legalize it. And we should use that tax revenue to fund services that we need, whether it's mental health, whether it's broader health care or education. There's a lot that we can be doing with that revenue.

Georgia's a right to work state. Do you mess with that? Do you touch that? I think we should absolutely be looking to adjust that. We have labor organizations in Georgia that have been advocating for workers' rights. Georgia is near the bottom when it comes to workplace safety and benefits in the country. And like I said, for me, this is about leveling the playing field. And I think right to work has had a negative impact on workers. For something positive, name a Republican policy from the last decade that you think was actually good for Georgia. All right. I'll say this. I think that they, their efforts, particularly Brian Kep's efforts,

to bring out-of-state companies into Georgia and create jobs, has been a step in the right direction. What I want to do to improve it is not write blank checks, but to actually hold those companies accountable to fulfilling their promises. So I think that they've done a good job at economic development where they have failed is tying that economic development to our communities. School vouchers, yes or no? No. Is Brian Kemp a good governor who got big things wrong or a bad governor. He got a lot of stuff wrong. I'll say that.

Look, I think he had his focus. His focus was to bring economic development to the state of Georgia. And for that, he's done it. I could say that without doubt. What he's not, what he completely ignored was health care, education, housing. I mean, there are, all the little things. All the little things. And he touts the fact that we're the number one state to do business.

And I go back to the point earlier, you can't be the number one state to do business if your workforce is not healthy and educated. Jeff Duncan was the Republican lieutenant governor until five minutes ago. Do you buy his conversion? I know you said he saw the light. Do you actually buy it? Look, you can't convert and join a church. And then the next month say that you want to be lead pastor. what the congregation is going to demand is for you to show that you're willing to do the work.

And that's something that we have not seen from Jeff Duncan. Just because you're fighting against Trump, which we all are, doesn't mean you're fighting for us. So what happens when Trump is no longer in the picture? Are we aligned? And that's where my concern is with him. He hasn't shown it. I haven't seen anything that shows that he's actually. when you have to roll up your sleeves and you're in the grind of leadership and Republicans

are pushing back, not in the name of Trump, but in the name of trickle-down economics, for example, is he actually going to push back against the policies that he had been advocated for for 15 years, right? That's where I'm not confident at all. what what Democrats need to vote for is someone

who has been in the fight and stayed in the fight no matter how tough it got because the fight ahead will be tough there will be special interests and a lot of billionaires pouring a lot of money into Georgia

and the governor is going to have to withstand that pressure and do what's right for hardworking people in this state and I'm not confident that he would do it. What is Duncan for Georgia.net and did you guys make that?

We did make it. We did make it because, and I'll say this again, I'm glad that he has made the conversion. I'm glad that he's part of the team. But he likes to say that there's never a wrong time to do the right thing or something like that. That's his family mantra.

And it's like, well, yes, there is. Because you weren't doing the right thing when you were in power. So the website is there to remind folks what he has said and what he has done. And it's not personal. It's literally his record. And it's hard for me to fathom that people would trust me if I came to them and said,

look, I've been wrong for the last decade, but I've seen the light. So trust me, give me the highest office in the land. I think the vast majority of people would look at me and be like, no, we're good. I'm very just interested about the whole person. primary process. As we were setting up, I mentioned it, but everything that you're saying now, for people that are watching, is it,

do you feel like it's, it's like a nice pulled punch when you have to talk about your primary opponents versus like how maybe you strongly feel someone is very wrong for the job? Because these are people that you're going to have to work with down the road if you get the Democratic nod. I try not to pull punches.

I'm not someone who gets too high or too low. And when I think about my two main opponents, whether it's Keisha Lance Bottoms or Jeff Duncan, I think they're nice people. I think their records don't make them fit to be governor. We are part of the same team. I told you I played basketball. That's what I do for stress relief. You want the right person taking the last shot.

Right? And this is our best shot that we're going to get and that we've had in the last 30 years. We've got to get someone who can actually make that shot. and those two have records that suggest that they won't make the shot. So for me, it's nothing personal. It's just about making sure that we are able to deliver on the promises that we are making to people who have been struggling and have been given a lot of empty promises. So for me, I have the experience, I have the record,

and I have the vision to actually get people out to win this election, but to also deliver. And in the time of Trump, that is incredibly important. I tell people all the time, Trump has changed the game. Because politics for a while, and I know a lot of folks listening know this well, politics for a while, people would just say stuff and not get it done. It's just empty rhetoric, empty promises, and there's no accountability for it. Trump came in and acted like he didn't know what Project 2025 was.

He acted like it. But he was wink, wink, you know. And he implemented it. He implemented the vast majority of it. There are people on the streets right now looking at what Donald Trump is doing and is saying, if he can line the pockets of his family and friends, if he can break every system that he promised, or that the book promised to make in Project 2025, then why can't Democrats keep their promises? Why are Democrats making excuses when it comes to expanding Medicare, Medicaid?

Why are Democrats making excuses when it comes to student loan forgiveness? Why are Democrats making excuses when it comes to ensuring that people can afford housing? We have to deliver, and Democrats better start delivering, which is why I like some of the Democratic governors have been talking about being part of the Get Shit Done Caucus. I am a part of that caucus. In fact, on my laptop, it has it. I was elected to get shit done. And that's the kind of mentality that we're going to need in the next governor.

And that's the mentality that I bring to this work. 36% of Georgia voters say that the economy is their top issue, right? Housing is second. Health care is third. Things that we've seen others campaign on like the threat to democracy, or immigration, things that we constantly see on TV. In Georgia, according to polling, lower on the list, right? barely even kind of make the radar for top issue. So I think, you know, what is something with

Georgia specifically right now that as Georgia governor you can actually fix? Well, look, economy certainly top of my list when it comes to what we should be fixing. People are struggling right now. And we're living at a time when the billionaires are getting richer and everyone else is just stuck. We're stuck in the mud. And we have a president who is clear. clearly out in the open, lining his own pockets in the pockets of his family, in the pockets of his friends. While everyone else is struggling to make ends meet, and my wife and I are small business owners, we have felt the increase in costs, not only of, we own two restaurants. And not only have we seen the food costs go up. We've seen the costs of everyday supplies go up.

Our groceries have gone up. It feels like every day. everything has gotten expensive. And in the face of that, we get very little relief. And even at the, legislature, you keep seeing these special interests and these corporations get tax cuts, tax handouts and giveaways, while the average person doesn't get the benefit. And as governor, I want to make sure that I'm leveling the playing field for the hardworking people of the state. I have to talk all the time. So as governor, what I want to do is work on lowering the cost of living, increasing wages so that people can keep up with inflation.

But ultimately ensure that we have a state where if you work full-time, you can afford to take a vacation every now and then. You can afford to live in a community with a safe home. You can afford to ensure that your child has access to a high-quality public school. I think no matter who you are, whether you're Democrat, Republican, agnostic to politics, or you're an independent, that's ultimately what you want. It's why I go around the state talking about health, wealth, and opportunity, because those are three areas where the governor has a direct impact

on making sure that people have access to health care, making sure that people have opportunities to keep and grow the money in their pockets, and ultimately to ensure our children and grandchildren have more opportunities than what we've had. But specifically with when you're talking about money in people's pockets and then keeping it there. We're seeing kind of two things play out, right? One, there's the wages people are getting. So what would you do there specifically in your position? And obviously, you know, a governor can do certain things, but the legislature is there, right?

And then two, what about the cost of things? Because, you know, as we're seeing right now with the war in Iran, oil is getting more expensive. We're seeing diesel is getting more expensive. That affects everything. There's the fertilizer issue. So prices across the border are raising. So in that specific position, though, what could you specifically do? What I can specifically do as it relates to wages, for example,

the minimum wage in Georgia, Phil, is $5.15 an hour. It's not $7.25. I know most folks are thinking $7.25. $7.25 is a federal minimum wage. $5.15 is Georgia's minimum wage. And there are thousands of people across the state that are getting paid somewhere between $5.15 and $7.25. That means they are not surviving. They are having to work multiple jobs to make ends meet.

So what I would do as governor is I would make sure that we raise the minimum wage. I think it should be at least $15 an hour, and that's just a starting point. And as someone who owns two restaurants and urgent care with my wife, I know that even in small businesses, we can do $15 an hour. It's what most people need to at least get by. And I want to make sure that Georgia is keeping up with the rest of the state, the rest of the country. The other thing that I could do as governor is make sure to make health care. more affordable, expand access to Medicaid, Georgia has lost out on $30 billion in federal funding because we refuse to expand Medicaid. That is $7,500 per taxpayer in the state of Georgia

in federal dollars that we did not see in the last 15 years. That's money that could have been used to keep hospitals open. That's money that could have been used to ensure that we have more clinics across the state that people have access to. The other thing I want to make sure to do is child care. Child care is extremely expensive. I know you're a dad. I'm a dad of two kids, a 10-year-old and 7-year-old, so I'm not too far removed from needing child care. And in Georgia, child care costs more than in-state college tuition. It's cheaper for me to send my kid to Georgia State University than it is to send them to a child care facility. And it makes it nearly impossible for people to be able to afford to go to work, which is why we see a third of

Georgians having to quit or they get fired when they have young children because they can't afford child care. As governor, I can tap into the Georgia Lottery Reserve to expand early learning for all three and four year olds and ultimately ensure that no matter who you are, if you have a child under the age of five, you can afford to send your kid to child care because the state of Georgia will help subsidize that care. You mentioned a few things that I want to touch on, but I do want to go back to the minimum wage. There's Republican leadership in Georgia right now. What is your understanding of their mindset of how $5 in change an hour is something

that they can be proud of? Yeah. That makes sense for the state. Their mindset is no different than Donald Trump's mindset, which is if we give benefits, if we give handouts to billionaires and large corporations, the money, will eventually wind itself down to the working family. And what we've seen over the last 30, 40 years is that that experiment has failed. Trickle-down economics has failed. We have not seen the benefits, which is why working families have seen the gap, the wealth gap, dramatically increase where

billionaires are getting richer and everyone else is falling way behind. And in Georgia in particular, What we've seen under 25 years of Republican leadership is that Republicans have been giving away handouts to billionaires and large corporations. Those corporations have brought jobs to the state. Those jobs have paid lower wages than they should, and they have not been held accountable. as a result 30 years ago when Democrats were in charge our wages in the country were around the middle

around average today Georgia's near the bottom when it comes to wages even though we've seen a whole bunch of jobs come to the state even though we've seen Georgia continue to grow working families are being left behind so that is the mentality that has to change we have to make sure that

if we want to be the number one state to do business and we have to make sure that we have a workforce that is healthy and educated. That means not only physically and mentally healthy, but also economically healthy. I'll get you right back to the show in a minute, but first let me say, you know, you ever spend money on plans just to watch them die and turn your yard into some kind of tree graveyard? Because yeah, you're not alone, but also don't worry because that's where today's sponsor, fast-growing trees comes in. They're the largest online nursery in the U.S., and they've got everything from fruit trees to

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One of the things that was surprising as I was looking into Georgia is that there's actually a $14.6 billion surplus here. Brian Kemp hasn't deployed it. You've specifically called it a failure. Yes. And so your governor tomorrow, let's say. What's the first thing you're throwing that? checkbook at. Yeah, well, look, I live within my means. That's, that's our household mantra is to live

within our means. So I'm, I'm not proposing to just extravagantly spend and, and just spend all the money that that's in the bank account. But I call it a failure because the governor has been hoarding our tax dollars, money that we're paying into the treasury, hoarding that money. And instead of investing in community, investing in services, investing on insurance, investing, that government works for our families. The governor has been cutting state budget. And as a result, he has this money just hanging out of the bank account

while people are on the street suffering. Georgia has close to $15 billion, by a percentage, more than most states, the vast majority of states in the country as a reserve account. While we have the third largest percentage of seniors living in poverty, while we have counties in Georgia where half of the children are food insecure, they don't know where they're going to get the next meal from.

We have real challenges in Georgia, and we have a governor that is just keeping that money away. And the equivalent to that is if I told my wife that we would only make $50,000 this year, and because of that, we couldn't fix the leaky roof. We couldn't fix the air conditioning in the car. The kids couldn't get their cavities filled because we couldn't afford it. And then at the end of the year, I say, hey, surprise, we have, we made $75,000 this year. So we have an additional $25,000. And my wife is like, well, great, let's fix the things that need fixing.

And I'm like, oh, no, no, no, next year I don't know how that's going to be. And then I do it again next year. And my wife at some point is going to be like, look, this is not working out. You got to invest in the household. Is there one specific thing, though, if you're saying that needs fixing, that you throw it at specifically? I would throw it specifically at ensuring that we're giving people tax cuts where they need it, hardworking people who are seeing a significant increase in property taxes. They're seeing a significant increase in the cost of living.

The other area that I would look at is expanding access to health care. And I know I keep going back to that. I want to spend money to expand access to health care, not just insurance, health care. So that means using some of those surplus dollars to, invest in mental health clinics, invest in ensuring that people can get the physical and mental health that they need no matter where they live in this state. It's why I talk about building health care hubs in Georgia, because no one should have to drive more than 45 minutes to get the care that they need. And there are people in this state fill that drive more than two hours

just to see a pediatrician, just to see an OBGYN. And that is contributing to the lack of economic opportunity for a lot of people. And you're in a primary right now, so I do want to ask, of your Democratic opponents, if they were in that position, what do you think they would throw it at and why do you think it's the wrong priority? Well, look, I think a lot of my Democratic opponents are listening to what the polls tell them. I think what sets me apart is the fact that I have lived experiences of the average hardworking Georgian. I'm a small business owner. I work, I still work in my restaurants when I need to. I'm a parent of two young children. I'm a caregiver of a mom with Alzheimer's, and I've seen the struggle firsthand. A lot of my

opponents are talking about, for example, one opponent talks about a startup fund, jumpstart fund, where he's going to use 10% of the surplus, you know, one point. billion to to help subsidize needs for low-income Georgians. That's a misunderstanding of the economic crisis that we're in. Because I know people who are making $35,000 a year who are struggling. I know people who are making $200,000 a year that are struggling. The struggle that people are having in Georgia is across the board. We need systemic change.

And we need a governor that understands that, that we need to lower the cost for everyone, because everyone is struggling in Trump's economy. So I think that the folks who are running on the Democratic side don't truly understand how we got here and what we need to do to actually get out. On the note of getting shit done, and you mentioned Medicaid earlier, right?

George is one of the last states that hasn't expanded Medicaid. Rural hospitals are closing. You want full expansion. Kemp's, he has a partial waiver program out here. So with what you're proposing, How is that different from just, I guess, doing more of what he started and to a Republican voter out there or someone that feels wrong by the party right now? Why isn't that a handout?

Republicans like to talk about running government-like business. And if the Georgia Pathways for Coverage Program, which is the partial waiver program that you talked about, was a business, the CEO would get fired. We've spent over $100 million to ensure. about 8,000 Georgians. It's a ridiculous amount of money that was spent on consultants and on marketing, and the program has failed.

Why has it failed? Because the way health insurance works, you want people to buy in whether they're healthy or not. If too many unhealthy people get health insurance, while the healthy people opt out, then it makes health insurance

incredibly expensive because a lot of money gets spent on the focus who are covered, which tend to be less healthy. The idea behind the Affordable Care Act, the idea behind Medicaid expansion, is that you get as many healthy folks covered to help pay for the cost of everyone else.

And the waiver program, Georgia Pathways for coverage, has so much paperwork involved that if you're healthy, you're like, nah, I'm good. And that's what's happened. The vast majority of the folks who are covered by the program right now have pre-existing medical conditions, whether it's cancer, whether it's long-term chronic diseases, and they need health insurance. So they're going to do whatever it takes, regardless of the paperwork, to get covered. What we should do is full expansion, which cuts a lot of that paperwork and ensures that everyone has health insurance. And if that happens, then we see the cost of insurance stabilize.

and in some cases we see it lower the cost, the cause gets reduced. That's what I want to do. I want to make sure that we are covering as many people as possible so that we can lower the cost of health insurance for all of us. Ultimately, people need health insurance

so they can get the health care that they need. Right. And then for housing, right, you've talked about wanting to block private equity from buying houses. I've heard a number of people say it. For some, it ends up being kind of more of a headline rather than actual policy. And so what happens, I guess, the day after you sign that bill?

How do you actually increase supply? And also, I guess with this, right, are you willing to push for zoning reform that might not be the most popular thing with kind of your home owning suburban owner that you probably need to win the election? Yeah. So look, I think that there are three things that we need to do specifically on housing. The first thing is, yes, stopping private equity funds from buying up single family homes. you can't just put a ban on private equity funds from buying homes. That's not how it works. How it works is they're coming in Georgia because our landlord-tenant laws are lax,

and they're able to hide behind a whole bunch of LLCs and protect their identity. That's why they're coming into Georgia. So the way we stop them from buying up our homes is by changing our landlord-tenant laws to make it more fair for tenants, and at the same time, require those massive landowners to disclose a real person that can be held accountable if they break the law or if they violate code enforcement or landlord-tenant rules. Increasing transparency will kick out a lot of these private equity funds. It's why they're targeting Georgia and not other states.

So I would do that first. The other thing that I would make sure to do is work with cities and counties to cut the red tape to change some of the zoning laws. Florida has a pretty cool one that I've seen where if you have a property that's zoned for industrial or heavy commercial, you don't have to get it rezoned if you want to build affordable housing on it. You can go straight through that zoning process. It streamlines the process, reduces the cost, and ensures that we're building more stock. I'm all for that. I understand that there are folks who don't want things built in their backyard.

But in order to keep up with demand, Georgia needs hundreds of thousands of homes in the next five years. And the only way we do that is by cutting a lot of the red tape. The last thing I want to make sure we do is we expand the Georgia Dreams program, which is the first-time home buy program. Most people feel have not heard of it because it's basically obsolete. The program only covers homes that cost no more than $250,000 or something like that. Oh, okay. The average home in Georgia now costs over $300,000. So it's not even applicable to today's world.

I want to make sure that first-time homebuyers, especially those in Gen Z, can buy a home before they get to the age of 40. And that means updating the first-time homebuyer program here. Something I wanted to ask you as well, something that is kind of the same across the board, all Democrats in this race say they will repeal the heartbeat ban. Yes. Right? But the legislature that you're going to have, most likely because of the state Senate,

it's most likely going to go Republican, right? Women have already died. You have Amber Thurman, Candy Miller, because doctors were afraid to act. If you are governor and you can't repeal through the legislature, what is something that you do on day one with executive power that make sure that no one else dies? Yeah.

Well, on the first day, I could take executive action to clarify what providers and hospitals could do under the current law. And providing that clarity, will help them practice the full scope of their medicine. And in the meantime, I'm going to advocate and fight to repeal the ban. The other thing I'm going to make sure to do is to stop funding these clinics that say they are maternal health care and maternal clinics,

but they're really clinics that deceive pregnant women into giving, having unwanted pregnancies. And I want to make sure that those clinics that are receiving those state dollars don't receive them anymore and hopefully any of them will close. The bait and switch with those, when I saw those, the rise of those are wild.

It's ridiculous. And it's led to unhealthy pregnancies. I'll get you right back to the show in just a minute, but first let me say, you know, at this point, I don't fear the night out. I fear the version of me the next morning. And that's why I've been using today's sponsor, Zbiotics, pre-alcohol.

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And they have a 100% money-back guarantee, so there's basically no risk in trying it. And April's packed from golf weekends to baseball games to festival seasons. So don't let a rough next day bench you. Just remember to make pre-alcohol your first drink of the night, drink responsibly, and you'll feel your best tomorrow. Scan that QR coder, head to Zbiotics.com slash IGF and use the code IGF to get 15% off your first order. That's Zbiotics.com slash IGF, code IGF for 15% off your first order. At the end of the day, women should have received the support that they need, whether it's it's lactation coaches, whether it's prenatal services, whether it's ensuring that they have

doulas or birthing centers if they're not close to a hospital. There's so much that we should be using that money towards. That's what I would prioritize. These clinics that are doping these women into giving birth have led to some of these babies having to go into ICU because, NICU because their mothers were not, we're not ready for that pregnancy. And specifically with abortion, I mean, you are, you're Catholic and you do support abortion access. And so that's something that I've seen a lot of politicians trying to figure out politically how they navigate for them personally as well.

So, I mean, have you worked through it, theologically, personally, or is it something that you kind of compartmentalize? I think the layman's version of this is, are you more of a Biden or a Tala rica? right that's because I think those are kind of the two examples you see I like talarico's explanation of it and how he applied his religious belief to to accepting abortion as a right I think it's it's none of our business my religion is my religion and we live in a country that was founded on the belief of religious freedom right and I should not apply my

personal beliefs to those who don't necessarily believe it. The government should not be in your business telling you what you should and should not do. And when it comes to abortion, I believe that the government should stay out of reproductive health care decisions that should be made between the woman, her family, and doctors. Bottom line. You were a VP of legal at Equifax. Yeah. Right. That is a company that, you know, 147 million Americans associate with one of the worst data breaches ever. Yeah. What was your experience there?

And did it teach you anything? But I'm very interested in what your experience there was because I was looking at the timeline and it looked like you were promoted after the breach. So I was interested. Yeah. So I was there during a breach. My information was hacked as well. All Equifax employees' information was part of the breach. A lot of people don't realize that.

And so we were impacted by it as well. Look, I think that the biggest lesson, two lessons I learned that I want to highlight. One is that companies have good people in them, even the big ones that have bad reputations. And there are a lot of good people at Equifax who are trying to do right by consumers. and we need them at those companies, just like we need them in Trump's administration. I also learned that companies work within the systems and the laws that are built around them. And what they want is stability.

And as governor, I'm certainly going to keep that top of mind when I am advocating for laws and regulations, making sure that we are holding companies accountable and at the same time we're being pragmatic in how we do it so that ultimately people, our families, are able to benefit from whatever that company provides. I think there's the right balance. What we've seen from Republican leadership has been the complete opposite.

Donald Trump has dismantled almost every regulatory body in this country. And the unfortunate part is that those regulatory bodies were proactively trying to prevent incidents. What's going to happen under the Trump administration is that things are going to be done to us and then the regulatory body is going to step in. By then it's too late.

Yeah, I mean, even you talking about how it affects how you would think you would operate as governor is interesting because as I've talked to more politicians, some of it is a little fluffy, but it does feel like there are very serious things that affect their mindset on certain policy. and something you mentioned earlier is that your mother has Alzheimer's. Yeah.

Right. And you and your wife are for caregivers while running a business, while being parents, while you're running for governor. And so, one, I am going to ask, how do you manage all that? But then two, you know, what has that experience taught you that Georgia owes its aging population? And is there a policy that's associated with that? Yeah. Well, look, our senior care system is broken in the state. And it's driving seniors and their caregivers into bankruptcy.

The state of Georgia doesn't step in and provide any support until seniors are basically dirt broke, dirt poor. And that's something that has to change because these are folks who have been working their entire lives and should be aging in place with the love and the respect that they deserve. And for too many, they don't get to do that. What I've seen is that the state of Georgia is spending a whole bunch of money on people living in nursing homes. which is the most expensive care that you can receive, instead of supporting them while they stay at home, while they live in lower-cost facilities. And what I want to make sure we do as when I'm governor

is making sure that we're being smart and intentional about providing seniors with the support that they need so that they can stay at home as long as they can. Because that's not only the safest and best place for them from a mental perspective, But it's also a most more cost-efficient place for them to be as taxpayers of the state. The state of Georgia didn't provide my mom any support. And she had a very small nest egg, and I'm open about this, Phil.

When she was diagnosed, she was diagnosed at the age of 60. She had an extremely small pension that paid about $100 a month. She had Social Security that eventually kicked in disability that was paying about $1,200 a month. and then she had a 4-1K that was about $60,000. That's it. Those were her assets. Right. In Georgia, she didn't qualify for Medicaid.

In Georgia, she did not qualify for any public support. It wasn't until her $60,000 were drained out of her bank account. It wasn't until she was at her lowest of low, where I was fully subsidizing her care, that she finally qualified for Medicaid. makes no sense. And now she was at a nursing home where it costs $30,000 plus a month for her care.

So instead of supporting her while she was at home and maybe helping with services that would cost a couple thousand dollars a month, the state of Georgia was now paying more than $30,000 because they didn't support her at the front end. There's thousands of examples of that. across the state of Georgia. And that's what I'm going to do here in Georgia. I'm going to make sure to invest in our senior care system

and bring it up to this century. And how I balance all of that, going to your question, is there is no balancing it. Life is incredibly challenging when you have a whole bunch of things going on. A dad, I'm a husband, a small business owner, I'm a caregiver, and I'm running for governor. So what I make sure to do is as all those balls are in the air, make sure that none of them drop to the floor. And that means there are some occasions where one ball may get really close to the floor, and I have to adjust to make sure it doesn't drop.

But there really is no balance there. I think Stacey Abrams called it jenga. It's like work-life jenga. just make sure the tower doesn't collapse. And that's what my life is like, but that's also no different than what it's going to be when I'm governor and some of those things are off my plate. It's still going to be making sure that we're doing as much as we can

across the state to invest and to make sure that no ball, no matter where you live in the state, hits the ground. It's kind of insane that a child can end up with a digital footprint before they've even had an independent thought. Before they ever send an email, they sign up for anything, or even know what privacy means, the internet can already start building a profile around them. Which is actually why today's sponsor ProtonMail

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trickle down economics and I think there are a lot of small business owners that might end up feeling kind of looped in to how how people talk about multi-billionaires. Right? Because there is this, sometimes this thought process that Democrats are against success. Yes. Right. And which, I mean, I'm a small business owner. I'm like, no, that's it. Even though I'm very successful, the distance from me to an everyday wage worker is so much closer than me and the people running these Fortune 500 companies or an Elon Musk type. That's right.

So, I don't know, what are your thoughts there as far as small business owners? I think that Democrats have to stand for small businesses. We have to stand for those workers. that are making $150,000 and is struggling because they're W-2 employees and they're the highest-taxed Americans in the country,

we have to talk about how, as a Democrat, I want to help my community, but I also like to make money, right? The reason I opened two restaurants and an urgent care was because I wanted to build generational wealth for my family, right? The reason I went to work at a law firm and to work at Equifax was to make sure that I could pay my student loans and to make sure I could provide for my family.

It's okay to say that. And at the same time, want to make sure that people can afford health care, can afford home, and can afford child care. There is nothing wrong with wanting to make money and at the same time serving our community. And because Democrats have shied away from talking about wealth building and success, it's given Republicans the Avenue to try to box in billionaires with everyone else, including the small business owner. I can tell you I'm a small business owner, and we have restaurants that each have over a million dollars in revenue.

I am not making a million dollars. But at the same time, I'm paying. a lot in taxes. I don't have the loopholes that large corporations that own thousands of restaurants do. I don't have the giveaways that companies that can afford lobbyists do. I'm, like you said, much closer to the hourly worker than I am closer to Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos. So as Democrats, we should take that opportunity and talk about how if we're going to talk about tax cuts, those tax cuts should go to small businesses and to the hardworking people of the state

who are working 60, 70, 80 hours a week just to make ends meet. When we're talking about cutting red tape, I'm talking about cutting red tape for the people who can't afford the lawyers and can't afford the lobbyists. I've had to open small businesses in three different counties in this state.

I'm a lawyer, and I had a hard time, right? So when I talk about cutting red tape, I'm not talking red tape to help Elon Musk open a data center. I'm talking about cutting the red tape so that I can help you open a production company and me open restaurants. I mean, that's what we should be talking about because I think that's going to get a lot of those independents who are with Republicans, who have voted with Republicans

strictly because of tax policy, strictly because they seem more business-friendly when the reality is Republicans are billionaire-friendly. and large corporation friendly. Because if they were more business friendly than small business owners and those higher income earners would get many more tax benefits

than they currently receive. And I think that if we fill that lane, we're going to see significant gains all across the country. Another big thing for Georgians that I wanted to talk about was data centers. Yes.

Right? Almost half of Georgia voters say they do not want data centers built near them. It's actually higher than the national average. I thought that would be this case. but here, very pointed. But you also have tech companies

that are wanting to come to Georgia, right? Because there's cheaper land for them, there are tax breaks. As governor, do you welcome them, regulate them, or tell them to go somewhere else? I live within a mile and a half of two data centers

that were just recently built. One is, I believe, the largest data center in Georgia right now. So this is a issue that's near and dear to my heart. Too often, data centers have been done to community instead of with community.

And I'm someone who believes that if a data center wants to come to Georgia, then they have to pay their fair share. They should not get any handouts from the state government. And they should be built with the best technology to ensure that they are not pulling our natural resources and polluting our air or our water or our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, our, or noise, noise pollution. I believe that if we hold those data centers accountable

and they want to meet all of those requirements, then they should come to the communities that actually want them. And I know that there are going to be some people who are going to say, what communities want them? But you just read the poll. There are people that are okay with data centers. Connected to that then. Georgia Power, they have enormous political influence, right?

Especially in this state. How do you move the needle on clean energy against a utility that has historically got pretty much everything that it's ever wanted. We have to, I'm going to use the bully pulpit of the governor's office to make sure that we are using the green technology that is being built in Georgia. We have batteries and solar panels that are being built in Georgia, and EVs that are being built in Georgia, yet we don't provide any kind of incentive or make it a place where you should,

where you want to go green. A lot of the tax incentives have been pulled, have been eliminated, which disincentivize people from going green. So I want to make sure that we're a green-friendly state, especially because we have all this green technology being built in Georgia. And I think that in addition to using the bully pulpit, we have to get people elected to the Public Service Commission,

which regulates the Georgia Power and other utility companies. companies who are aligned with the belief that environmental policy is directly tied to affordability, like I believe, and that ensuring that Georgia Power is a company that is forward-thinking and is open to solar and to wind and to other types of power is a top priority. And we made some progress there last year, Phil. We elected two public service commission members, Alicia Johnson and Peter Hubbard, and there is another election for one more this year that we need to win. And if we get the majority, then I believe that between the work that I do and the work that the PSC does, we will see a significant change in policy when it comes to sustainability and green technology in Georgia. We've seen some utility companies in Georgia move into the direction of green technology already.

I could probably use a push, but they're moving in that direction already. They understand that coal is not something that is efficient and good for our environment. Not efficient cost, not good for our environment. So they've been moving towards natural gas. They've been moving towards solar and batteries. powered plants. I think we're going to continue to move in that direction, but I do believe there's a role for the state of Georgia to help move that along to make sure that we don't lag behind other states. What is different about the moment right now? Democrats haven't won the governorship,

I believe it's 27 years. Yeah. Right. Stacey Abrams ran twice, massive national support, wasn't able to get there. What has changed do you think about the electorate or the situation or what stands out with you? Because Stacey Abrams, I think, arguably, is a very impressive candidate. So why do you work? Why does this moment work? Look, Stacey gave us the blueprint.

She had the closest election for governor that Democrats had seen in almost two decades and came within 50,000 votes of winning the seat. And she did it by engaging and mobilizing the base and those who do not vote frequently. So she gave us the blueprint. Two years later, Raphael Warnock and John Ossoff built upon that blueprint and told us that energizing the base, getting those hard-to-reach voters, and then bringing in those disaffected

Republicans and independents could get us history. historic wins. And Raphael Warnock got more votes than any Democrat or Republican in Georgia history in that election. So what makes Georgia different this year is the fact that I am running with the idea that we have to build upon the blueprint that Stacey Abrams and Raphael Warnock have laid it before us. Building a coalition of those moderates and progressives. and the Democratic base, making sure that we engage and activate those who stayed on the couch in 2024, and then appealing to those independents and those disaffected Republicans that are looking for a change. I can build that coalition. It's what I've been doing my entire political career,

and it's what I look forward to doing to win this race in November. But here's the thing. Georgia has the numbers to be a blue state already. I have to remind folks of that. In 2024, Kamala Harris lost by 115,000 votes. That margin is closer than Pennsylvania, Arizona, and North Carolina. All three of those statesville have Democratic governors already.

They're Democratic states. So we have the margin that's closer. If we stay laser focused on those issues and don't get distracted by what Donald Trump and what Republicans want us to talk about, which are social, social, culture, divisive issues, if we stay focused on economic issues and what unites us,

then we're going to have historic numbers this year. And that's why I'm excited to be running and why I feel like I'm the best candidate because I understand that clearly. My opponents on the Democratic and Republican side don't understand that blueprint. And that's why we're, I'm not only going to win this primary, but I'm going to win the general election,

and we're going to see a new generation of leadership in the state. So, okay, connected to that, because you were talking about Trump, and there's always a balancing act, right? So whether it be the last election or this, right now, I think Trump and Georgia's polling at like 42%. So he's underwater. People, they often, I feel, like, push you to be like, speak out against Trump more. But you've said, you know, I'm, this is more about Georgia, right?

This is a campaign for Georgia, for Georgians. So what is a Georgia-specific problem that has? nothing to do with Donald Trump that Brian Kemp's Republican government created that a Georgia voter can feel in their own life right now day to day. The health care crisis. The health care crisis existed long before Donald Trump became president. It existed because Republicans refused to expand access to Medicaid. It existed because Republicans passed a restrictive abortion ban that led to the preventable deaths of multiple women in the state. And as a result, we're going to have to fix it. It's costing us more money, even those with private health insurance. We've seen those prices get jacked up in the last decade.

And it's a direct correlation to the fact that Republicans in this state, without Donald Trump, refuse to expand access to Medicaid. If you were living in rural Georgia, you've likely seen a hospital close in your area. That's a direct correlation with Republican leadership and has nothing to do with Donald Trump. Now, Donald Trump has not helped, right? the fact that instead of expanding the Affordable Care Act tax credits, he decided to put that money into the pockets of billionaires. He has not helped in that.

But Republicans in Georgia caused our health care crisis, and I'm going to be the governor to fix it. Another example of a failure in leadership is our early learning system. When Governor Zell Miller, a Democrat, who later turned Republican, by the way, passed legislation to bring early learning to Georgia. Georgia pre-K was at the top of the country when it came to early learning. In the 20-plus years of Republican leadership since then, Georgia has dropped steadily when it comes to early learning.

And as a result, this year, we are near the bottom, 48, 49 when it comes to early learning. And it's because Republicans have refused to invest in it. Their direct result that people are seeing across the state is less affordable child care,

but also a literacy crisis where our children are not reading on gray level by the time they reach fourth grade. And in Georgia, about 70% of our kids are not reading on grade level by the time they reach fourth grade. And that is something that Donald Trump did not cause. It's Republicans in this state.

And I want to be, crystal clear with people. It's not that I don't have a problem talking about Donald Trump. I want to fight back and I can't wait until his presidency ends just like everybody else can. And I'm going to make sure it ends in 2028, by the way. But in order to win this election, in order to speak to those who stayed at home in the couch, in order to speak to those who are tired of the same old politics, we have to move beyond Donald Trump.

Democrats have lost elections because we have solely focused on Donald Trump. So for me, it's not an issue about Trump itself, or talking about Trump. It is speaking to what I've heard voters tell me, which is give us something to vote for. That's why my campaign, health, wealth, and opportunity is focused on giving something for people to latch on to versus just saying, we're going to fight against Donald Trump. That activates the base, right? It activates the base. It activates Republicans who hate. Donald Trump, but it does nothing to fight one of our fiercest opponent in every single election,

and that's the couch. Jason, thank you for the time, man. I appreciate you. Thank you so much, Bill.