The Pomp Podcast - #1063 Darius Dale Gives The Truth On How Bad The Economy Is

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Darius Dale is the founder and CEO of 42Macro, the leading macro risk management advisor. In this conversation, we talk about what's going on in the macro economy, what's happening in the financial markets, how Darius is looking at various metrics, and also what you at home should be thinking about as you invest your capital. I really enjoyed this conversation with Darius, and I hope you do as well.

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Starting point is 00:03:19 of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Darius, how are you? I'm doing well, man. It's a lot going on in the markets, a lot going on in the economy, man. This is a fun time to be in macro. let's start first with yesterday because i or on uh wednesday i'm sorry 75 basis point hike from the federal reserve uh their entire talk track all their talking points a recession is not here we do not see a recession uh we do not believe the united states economy is in a recession first why are they raising interest rates at 75 basis points and being so aggressive

Starting point is 00:03:56 if the last one didn't work? Well, give the guy some credit. Monetary policy, at least according to them, and I would tend to agree with this, takes time to filter through the economy. It doesn't impact everyone because there's a lot of debt that's not on floating rate basis. There's a lot of debt that's obviously on fixed rate, including most mortgages. So it takes time for incremental consumers and incremental people who are tapping debt markets to really feel the impact of that. So ultimately, what the policy choices that they're making today are intended to have an impact on the economy, let's call it. The general consensus on this is somewhere between two to three to four quarters down the road. As we look at 75 basis points,

Starting point is 00:04:38 50 was kind of the general thought process a couple of months ago, then they jacked up to 75. Could they go to 100? Do you think 75 is kind of the upper bound of what is possible? Yeah. In fact, I mean, it's probably the last 75 basis point hike we're likely to get if you think about sort of, so 100 basis points was sort of, that was shot for dead really quickly on the other side of that inflation report. The FOMC sent out Bullard and Waller to sort of tap that down. But as it relates to the continuation of 75 basis points, we're probably going to have to see inflation pressure continue to build from here. Now, it's not necessarily likely to continue to build, particularly on the headline side, because we have seen a pretty

Starting point is 00:05:20 significant decline in energy and agriculture prices that should start to feed through into headline CPI. We do, however, see core CPI pressures continue to build. This is something we talked about last on the show with the new acceleration to an all-time high median CPI on a three-month annualized basis, sticky CPI accelerated to 40-year high in terms of on a three-month annualized basis as well. So we are seeing a kind of a new push higher in core inflation, but it might be overwhelmed by declining food and energy prices as it relates to headline. As we begin to look at some of those inflation measurements, they continue to talk about 9.1%. In a couple of weeks ago, you and I were talking and you were talking about the

Starting point is 00:06:01 acceleration of kind of the three month annualized inflation. Do you think that that plays into kind of their continued aggressiveness is even though they only talk about your. This is a problem, right? Like we all know that inflation should eventually come down on a year over year rate to change basis just due to base effects. We don't need to unpack base effects here. That's probably not the right audience. But the problem with, you know, kind of anchoring on base effects to get inflation down, which I think a lot of investors are making this mistake, which is if you only rely on base effects to get inflation down, you're going to wind up with a structurally higher kind of base rate, base level of inflation by the end of that process. And so

Starting point is 00:06:39 it's my belief. And I think, you know, just based on the kind of the tea leaves we continue to hear out of Fed or out of Fed heads and obviously out of Powell yesterday, is that the annualized momentum, the sequential change in inflation is really what's driving the boat from a policy standpoint. And the most recent data points we were getting, you know, if you look at on a three month annualized rate of change basis, like pretty much everything in the entire inflation basket is accelerating to the upside with the exception of energy. So, I mean, that's an issue for the Fed is really an issue for markets, quite frankly, because it means, you know, that inflation is likely to continue being a problem for longer than the growth dynamics in the economy would

Starting point is 00:07:17 appreciate. Let's talk about the labor market. I know you've got this chart here that shows the labor market is too strong for the Fed to stop tightening. That seems to be one of two things they continue to point to. Even though GDP growth is negative now for two consecutive quarters, they say, hey, employment looks strong and consumer spending still looks pretty healthy. What's going on in the labor market? Yeah, great question, man. So the reason I I sent you a bunch of charts. Most of them are all around the labor market. The reason I sent those charts is because we can unpack all of them. The Fed is now shifting its sort of focus back in the direction of its dual mandate. Obviously, it has the price stability mandate,

Starting point is 00:07:54 but it also has the maximum employment mandate. So yesterday, it gave the investors sort of a kind of a tipped its cap and nodded to investors who are increasingly concerned about growth and the possibility of what we call a hashtag actual recession, which is different than the technical recession that was reported today. So going back to the labor market, the strength of the labor market, Powell effectively said very clearly and cogently, hey, look, the labor market is too strong for us, you, anyone to be worried about recession right now. And so this is, I'm going to put up that chart, slide 82 from our macro scouting report just shows, you know, kind of three main indicators that I think the Fed is anchoring on to give them confidence that the

Starting point is 00:08:33 market is really strong. So the first plot in the upper panel just shows the ratio between total job openings and total unemployed people. And at 1.9x, which is where we are today with the red dotted line, we're more than double sort of the pre-COVID trend of 0.9, which is the blue dotted line in that chart. The middle panel shows the private sector quits rate. So this is the percentage of people who have jobs that are quitting in any given month. And obviously, when you quit your job, it's usually to go find a better job or a higher paying job, et cetera, like that. So it's an indication of how tight the labor market is.

Starting point is 00:09:09 That number is at 3.1% coming off an all-time high last fall, and that's much higher than the pre-COVID trend of 2.4. And then lastly, the bottom panel, we show the employment cost index, which is the broadest measure of wages in the economy. And that number at 4.5% is effectively a double of the 2.5% pre-COVID trend. So when the Fed looks at these statistics, it's seeing a labor market that is way too hot to stop tightening. If they're looking at growth as a sort of indicator that they can slow down on tightening and anchoring that segment of growth indicators on the labor market, the labor market is not going to give them any signals anytime soon. As you think about this labor market, how do you measure, we're seeing at least headlines,

Starting point is 00:09:59 layoffs, hiring freezes. Like I kind of think of it as there's a wall and there's cracks in the wall now. And sure, the dam hasn't bust yet. We're not at four and a half, 5% unemployment or anything like that. But it does feel like we're kind of starting to see the cracks. We're seeing tick up just a little bit. Is that something that you worry about? Or do you think that we'll have such a kind of multi-month, you know, headway or runway to actually see that market changing, and it'll give them enough time to kind of change their mind? Because it won't happen overnight, where we just go from, you know, 3.6 to 4.5% unemployment. Yeah, so to be clear, it could happen overnight, it's just very unlikely to happen overnight. And the reason I say that is

Starting point is 00:10:43 that, you know, we have not seen a significant enough decline in sort of aggregate income, consumer spending, you know, and sort of non-residential fixed investment, business investment to really kind of get you kind of concerned about a jump condition lower in the total employment and jobs market. The reality is, going back to the headlines we're seeing, we certainly are starting to see cracks in the dam. I mean, you know, you can start to piece together all these different companies telling you that, hey, we're laying off, I don't know, 10,000 people or 10% of our workforce, or

Starting point is 00:11:13 We're freezing hiring and all that stuff's going to get worse and worse and worse on an extended period of time because, again, the labor market is lagging with respect to the economic cycle, with respect to the market cycle. When you look at the labor market, and we're going back to some of these headlines, the headlines make the news. The headlines are what get you to click on the article, but no one's going to put out a headline that says company XYZ is increasing hiring by 10,000 or company ABC is actually increasing its workforce by 10%. But that's actually what's been happening. If you go to slide 83, that next chart where we show, I think we talked about this chart after the jobs report a few weeks ago, but it's important to sort of reiterate for those who missed that show, which is the labor market is overheating by a double. I mean, we kind of alluded to that in the previous chart, but this next chart, slide

Starting point is 00:11:59 83, where we show private payrolls growth, that's the first cluster of bars, the light blue bars, the pre-COVID trend, the fiber trend through 2019, the dark blue bars, the most recent month, June is the most recent job support we have. And so at 3.4% in private payrolls growth on a three-month annualized basis, that's literally more than double than what we saw in the pre-COVID trend. Average hourly earnings, that second cluster of bars, 5.8%, basically double the pre-COVID trend as well. And then lastly, the last cluster of bars, we show aggregate labor income growing at 8%, I mean, versus a pre-COVID trend of 4.4%. I mean, it's telling you that the media are doing a very poor job of actually reporting the labor market from a balanced perspective.

Starting point is 00:12:43 The reality is the labor market continues and, again, because it's a lagging indicator, it's lagging all the growth that we had last year. It's lagging the all-time highs we saw in January. The reason those things continue to be very robust is because, again, it's a lagging indicator. As we then go and we look at this next chart that you sent us, this whole idea of the depressed labor supply might delay the economy's natural response to declining corporate profitability. uh one thing i continued to go back to is the free market i would think would be smarter than central banks or central planning uh what you're talking about here is this depressed labor supply and the economy's natural response unpack that a little bit so that we can understand kind of what do you mean by the economy's natural response and then how does things like the depressed labor

Starting point is 00:13:27 supply uh and corporate profitability play in 100 man i think this is one of the most important and underrated kind of aspects of the labor market right now, which is, you know, so you kind of alluded to like how long will it take for the sort of dams in the system, the cracks in the dam to really start to give way to a bigger flood. And the reality is it might actually take longer in this cycle than in previous cycles, which the key takeaway from what I just said is the Fed is likely to keep its foot on the brake for longer. But let me unpack this chart. So what we show in the chart in these four panels, the first panel is the overall labor force participation rate In the economy, this is the sort of percent of people, you know, who are non-institutionalized, not in jail effectively, or, you know, jail loony bin or whatever you want to call it.

Starting point is 00:14:10 Those are the proportion of people who are actively engaged in the labor market, looking for jobs, et cetera, et cetera. Then you have the 25 to 54-year-olds in the second panel, 55-plus-year-olds, so people nearing retirement in the third panel, and then lastly, the female labor force participation rate. And what you can see is that we've seen a broad-based decline in labor force participation rate. You know, the headline is off 120 basis points from where it was at pre-COVID. The prime working age, 25 to 54, people who should be working, by all stretches of the imagination, it's down 80 basis points from the pre-COVID high. 55-plus-year-olds, the great resignation, you know, people finally retiring, the baby boomers retiring, that's down 170 basis points from its pre-COVID high. And then we also have female labor force participation rate down 110 basis points. So you take all these different sort of pockets of the labor market together, these different

Starting point is 00:15:04 cohorts, it's telling you that companies, there's a real scarcity of workers out there that may make companies a little bit reluctant at the margins to shed some of the hires that they've accumulated in the last, so it's just called six to 18 months. And so that may actually, again, with the title of the chart being what it is, it may slow, you know, the natural sort of hiring and firing cycle may slow the firing cycle in this cycle relative to previous cycles, which again, keeps the Fed actively engaged in tightening policy because they're looking at the labor market to give them clues to stop. And then you've got this, it may be quite a while before the Fed is freaked out about the labor

Starting point is 00:15:40 market chart. What is this showing us? Yeah, this one. Yeah. So no, this, the blue line in this chart shows the conference board's labor differential survey. So within the Consumer Confidence Index report we get from the conference board, they have sort of two questions, which is, you know, what's the percentage of respondents who think jobs will be plentiful six months hence? And then what's the percentage of respondents who think jobs will be less plentiful six months hence? And they take the differential of those surveys as a sort of proxy for how robust the labor market is. And as you can see, you know, going back to Q1 of this year, we're effectively coming off an all-time high in consumers' perception of the labor market. Even with the

Starting point is 00:16:21 decline we've seen since then, we're still in the 95th percentile of all readings in this survey going back to, I want to say, the 60s or 70s. I mean, it's a long time series history of telling you how tight or weak the labor market is, and we're coming off the all-time tights. And so it's telling you that, hey, look, there's a lot of downside to go before the Fed is probably concerned about the labor market. Like us market participants, we care about the rate of change, the direction of travel, how fast is it moving? The Fed cares about, is this good or bad? And it's going to take a while before it to actually get bad. And that may actually keep the Fed engaged in tightening monetary policy rate hikes, quantitative tightening for longer than it

Starting point is 00:17:00 probably otherwise should, because we're likely to head into a recession, let's call it sometime by the end of this year, maybe even beginning part of next year. When you start to look out at the market more generally, does the Fed care about asset prices? Like those have fallen, they seem to have been somewhat immune to caring, but what's your general read? Yeah, no, that's a great question, man. So yes, but not in the price level sense. They care about asset prices in the sense that if we're seeing sort of, you know, sloppy trading in the treasury market, like wider bid act spreads, you know, inability for corporations to sort of place debt to issue debt, and you're seeing sort of dysfunction in the repo market, which is used

Starting point is 00:17:41 to sort of capitalize shadow bank participants. If we're seeing dysfunction there, then yes, the Fed is really going to be concerned because usually dysfunction there translates to higher volatility in the actual asset prices. And ultimately, usually higher volatility is leading to lower prices. And so yes, the Fed does care, but they only care in the sense that we're seeing real confirmed signs of financial instability. And some would argue we're starting to see that. You're seeing things like repo fails, which is probably too sophisticated a subject to talk about here. But you're seeing things like repo fails. Obviously, the move index, which is a bond, the VIX for the Treasury market has been elevated all year. So there's there's definitely some elements of financial instability, but nothing like what we've seen even in 2019, even in 2018, even in 2015, 16.

Starting point is 00:18:26 So I don't think the Fed is that particularly concerned about it here. And nor should they be. Right. Again, inflation is at nine point one percent year over year, annualizing at 11 percent. They don't have the ability to be concerned right now. And what about the data? One of the things that Jerome Powell said yesterday, which I'm still processing, because I couldn't believe it when I saw that he said it, but he said something to the effect of,

Starting point is 00:18:51 like, the labor market is strong, which makes me question or makes us question the GDP data. And it seems like we're heading into taboo kind of land where it's not very often you see a central banker mentioned that they may not believe the data because it seems like they usually they're pointing to like just believe the data believe the data and it's the market who's like we don't believe the data do you read into that or is that just maybe he just said kind of offhand comment and we shouldn't really take it uh anything more than that uh you know i so it i don't know if it

Starting point is 00:19:24 was an offhand comment i think he's correct in the sense that you know the fed is not they don't have a GDP mandate, right? Like, so the Fed is, at the end of the day, really doesn't care what GDP does unless it's really giving them a clear indication that there's something about the break in their employment or inflation mandates. So, but, and he's actually right. In fact, he called this out, which is something, you know, I was dealing with for a while early in my career, which is this residual seasonality effect, which is, you know, after the gold financial crisis, you know, every Q1 of every year, 2010, 2011, 2012, and all the way up through like 2015, I want to say, we saw like a contraction in GDP that wasn't really real. It was just a function

Starting point is 00:20:01 of the seasonal adjustment being so messed up from the kind of the height of the financial crisis. So there's some noise in GDP statistics. There's noise in today's GDP statistics. I mean, we have a minus 90 basis point contraction on an annualized rate of change basis. But, you know, 200 basis points of that is inventory swings. I mean, like, does that really impact the economy? I mean, no, not really. I mean, don't get me wrong. It's not a great GDP report. You know, You've got goods consumption contracting, fixed investment contracting. So it's not great, but it's definitely not necessarily as bad as you might see in terms of seeing, oh, my God, two back-to-back negative GDP reports. So what really matters ultimately to the Fed as their proxy for growth is just monitoring developments in the labor market because at the end of the day, that's what they care about.

Starting point is 00:20:46 That's their mandate. We've seen Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. They're still down significantly off the all-time high, but they're up. in some cases, you know, 20, 30, 40% off the bottom, 80% off the low, right? Depending on what you're looking at. And so again, could that be the bottom? Maybe could it go lower? Sure. But just the recent price movement over the last 48, 72 hours has been very positive. How do you read something that I think many people look at Bitcoin specifically as like the most free market asset that we have. It responds positively to Fed hikes. It doesn't

Starting point is 00:21:21 necessarily get punished when the GDP numbers come out. What's your takeaway from that? Yeah, no, great question. So yesterday was a step in the direction of positive news from the Fed, from the news from the Fed. We just don't necessarily believe that it's sustainable in terms of the market reaction, but we can unpack that later. In terms of what's happened the last, you know, kind of let's call it 48 hours, you know, the Fed removed forward guidance from its, you know, kind of, you know, policy communications, which means that they're going to be a lot more sort of data, not that they weren't already, but they will be expressly data dependent as it relates to getting into each incremental meeting. You know, they're not going

Starting point is 00:21:57 to be guiding towards 75 or 50 basis point rate hikes. That doesn't mean we're not going to get incremental 75 or 50 basis point rate hikes. It's just that they're not comfortable guiding to it because they understand that we're finally in the part of the process where we are starting to see, you know, some significant economic deterioration that may ultimately, you know, assist in their fight against inflation. So they don't want to overdo it. Powell definitely said that very expressly, but he also acknowledged that he's comfortable overdoing it if inflation does not behave on the timetable with which they want it to behave. And as you see some of this playing out, obviously housing is just being destroyed. The wooden stick. Yeah. What's your read on the

Starting point is 00:22:36 housing market? And it just feels like that's not coming back anytime soon until they put us back sub 2% or even sub 1% interest rate? What's your read? I mean, housing's toast for this economic cycle, right? You're not going to get a significant decline in rates until you get through recession. Housing is not a place that people go speculate on or even consume from a capital good perspective heading into recession. So we probably have to wait till we get to the other side of the real recession to really think about housing. But a few statistics I'll throw at like, you know, the leading indicators for housing are literally like falling off the map. I'm serious. Like the, the, the NAHB or the National Association of Homeowners puts out this housing

Starting point is 00:23:20 market index survey. It's basically like the PMI for the housing market, more or less. And the, the rate, I forget the level it landed on, but the, the, the rate of change, the month over month decline in the, in the series was the biggest month over month decline in the time series ever going back to 1985, excluding April of 2020, which was the lockdowns. You got the other leading indicators like housing starts and building permits are contracting at down 40% annualized rates of change on a three-month annualized basis. So like, I mean, literally the housing market is like light switch, click, it's dark. I mean, it's serious. It's falling off the bottom of the page. The last question I have for you is recession. Two negative quarters of GDP growth.

Starting point is 00:23:58 A lot of people say it's a recession. It meets technical definition. President of the United States. He claims it doesn't. Federal Reserve, Treasury, they say that it doesn't. I haven't heard anyone yet ask explicitly if two negative quarters of GDP is not a recession, then can you please define recession? Because it sounds like their answer right now would be, yeah, sure, the NBER will tell you when it's a recession and when it's not, of which I don't know a single person at the NBER. I don't think anyone else in the world could name someone there. It seems to be this like fictional organization that just like makes shit up uh kind of the ministry of truth for economics um i mean that's what it let's just call it what it is right honestly like

Starting point is 00:24:46 when you talk about it it's like i think of like seven or eight like very old no offense to anybody who's not young uh very old people wearing like baggy suits from like the 1990s you know with like pocket protectors and like you know very ill-colored shirts and ties and they're like they've got like ruled line paper like is this a recession smoking ice and cigars do you want to know the funniest part about this i'm gonna say something that most people don't know and they're gonna be like wait what when the president of the united states federal reserve chairman and the treasury secretary all say two negative quarters of gdp growth is not a recession a recession is defined by the National Bureau of Economic Research. It makes you, me, and everyone else

Starting point is 00:25:32 believe that's a government organization. The National Bureau of Economic Research is a private nonprofit. At what point does the government say that someone in the private market gets to decide when there's a fucking recession or not? I normally would be right there with you. You and I agree on ninety nine point nine percent of things. The only reason I disagree with you here is because if you allow the government to determine what a recession was, then there never be any recessions because no government is ever going to indict itself and say, hey, we fucked up so bad in the economy. It turned into a recession like, you know, Biden is a bit he's been doing sort of like, you know, he's been backtracking on this and trying to prepare people for this print for weeks now. Right. Like, you know, no sitting Congress or White House is ever going to say we're in recession.

Starting point is 00:26:21 So I think this came up back in the, you know, maybe in the 50s or the 70s, you know, when we kept having like, you know, intermittent recessions and whatnot. And they were like, look, we got to put this to the private sector because if we allow the government to tell you, they're going to continue lying. There's been over 30 different edits to the recession page on Wikipedia, allegedly, in the last week. wait, what? Again, let's say that that number is wrong. It's only 10. Why are we editing it in the middle of a recession? Yeah. Why are we editing it at all? I mean, we haven't had a real business cycle recession since 2008, 2009. If you go to the National Bureau of Economic Research Wikipedia page, in it, there's a section that says recession markers. It's like kind of a whole section that talks about it. And this is my favorite part. The second sentence of this

Starting point is 00:27:16 section says the NBER has come to serve the role as an official, and I'm putting that in air quotes, but it's literally in quote marks on the page, arbiter of whether the U.S. is in a recession or not. How do you say official, but then put it in quote marks? Like what? Is it official or is it not. Oh, it's I mean, again, it's the silver lining in all this is that we have people like you. We have people like me who can analyze the data and we don't need to sit around and wait for the NBR to tell us we're in recession or not. Right. I mean, you know, you know, we'll be faithfully with you, you know, in many forms and formats, you know, certainly your 42 macro to tell you, hey, look, this looks like a recession. You know, we know what to look for.

Starting point is 00:28:00 It's a decline in income, decline in employment, decline in output spans across sectors of the economy lasts for multiple months. And again, I wish you could see my screen. I have literally probably 200 data points that I'm looking at right now. You know, I can tell you if it was a recession, I wouldn't wait on the NBR. I think that that's the big thing. The last thing I'm going to say is somebody tweeted at me today when I was tweeting about monetary policy mismanagement, allegedly. And they said, what makes you what makes you think you're an expert at monetary policy? And my response to them was the premise of your question insinuates that you think they're an expert at monetary policy totally no one is an expert and i think that's what we're

Starting point is 00:28:37 finding out now is that you have similar to what you've seen in other industries where the barrier to analysis has dropped to near zero and now people have access to the data doesn't mean that anyone is right doesn't guarantee anyone's success but you have more voices evaluating the data and that should be a positive. I think that it's a positive. I think that it's driven more of a conversation, but when you think about recession, are we in a recession? Like, would you classify this as a recession? No, but I think we'll be in one by the end of the year. What needs to change between now and the end of the year for you to say, yes, we're in a recession? To get you to a recession, you need to have a legitimate corporate profit recession that causes companies to really

Starting point is 00:29:23 start to pull back on hiring and start firing people. I don't think we're going to get to negative non-farm payroll prints in terms of job creation by the end of the year, but you might actually get to the peak sometime in Q4 or Q1 of next year. And then ultimately the NBR will look back and say, well, this process might've started in September or December. Again, I don't think the purpose of risk management is not just to be specific with the actual date. We'll learn what date they decide to choose, you know, after the fact, what we're trying to do here is get markets right, right, and make money in financial markets. And so ultimately, you need to be positioned, you know, if the market is not fully priced in a recession, which we do not believe it has,

Starting point is 00:30:01 then you need to be positioned accordingly. And if you believe that the market's priced it in, then you then position accordingly for that. But at the end of the day, you got to make a call, you got to have position on if you want to make money in financial markets. I think that's a very great place to end, my friend. Thank you so much. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find out more about 42 macro yeah appreciate you bro thank you so much man uh we're at 42 macro.com come check us out we got research for everybody it's consumable and we made a lot of cool changes here we did put out a nice little survey a couple weeks ago got a lot of good feedback and uh so made some nice uh improvements to our research

Starting point is 00:30:34 so come check that out and then uh follow me on twitter at 42 macro d dale having some fun out there cheers man the best macro research in the world i appreciate you very much we will we will continue to have these conversations for everyone who's worried about it we're going to figure out which uh which format and how we're going to do it but uh i appreciate everyone tuning in i know you're doing a good job because somebody said that you're making them nervous with your information so i don't want to make them nervous man i want to make them money that's it all right let's talk soon be good man be good thanks so much for listening to today's episode i really hope you enjoyed this one make sure you're subscribed on apple spotify or your favorite

Starting point is 00:31:11 podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io. My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to thecryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode,

Starting point is 00:31:45 make sure you share it with your friends and I'll see you all for the next episode.

The Pomp Podcast - #1063 Darius Dale Gives The Truth On How Bad The Economy Is

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