The Pomp Podcast - #1088 Zuby Exposes Everything Wrong With Society

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Zuby is a world-famous rapper, author, podcast host, and public speaker. In this conversation, we talked about everything that we're not allowed to talk about, including the importance of not being a coward in today's society, mass shootings, the politicalization of the world, the obsession with diversity, secretaries of state for health that don't look so healthy, and many, many more topics that most of you will be very interested in. I really enjoyed this conversation with Zuby, as I always do. I hope that you guys enjoy this episode. Let me know

Starting point is 00:00:41 what you think once you've completed it. Without any further ado, let's get into this episode with Zuby. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, guys. Bang, bang. Zuby's here. I think this is your third or fourth time on the show in person, and I thought a fantastic place to start would be the importance of not being a coward on the internet today. It feels like there's tons of

Starting point is 00:01:23 people who publicly don't say shit. And then I go to dinner with them. I talk to them in private and they'll just go off. And I'm like, yo, you're like a little bitch online and you're super based or like at least willing to like, say what you actually believe in private. Like, why is that happening? Ooh, man, that's a, that's a big question. And I think last time I was here, I talked about the pandemic of cowardice that I felt was going on in society and happening across the world. And it's something that I, I understand it's not a new thing. It's not a new thing. Um, I think one of the most common human desires is to fit in with people. And another is to avoid avoid criticism and backlash and avoid rocking the boat. I think there's a lot of reasons why

Starting point is 00:02:15 we have those tendencies and it makes sense, right? Most of us don't want to go around every day and deal with more conflict than we have to both online and offline. So, you know, there's no one, and it wouldn't be sensible to be constantly saying absolutely everything that's on your mind at all times or getting in every single conflict or argument that you have to, and so on. So I understand that to a degree. I think the problem is when it does become actual cowardice, right? Not just like a basic level of decorum or sensibility, but when people are genuinely afraid to say something that needs to be said or do something that needs to be done. And I think especially over the past, I mean, the past few years that we've just lived through,

Starting point is 00:03:04 it became so clear, number one, how pervasive that cowardice is and how unwilling people are to speak out even when it's very, very necessary. I mean, you've really seen this play out a lot over the past decade, to be honest with you. But I think most of it is self-preservation and wanting to maintain social status and social currency and to, you know, of course, there's people who have people often use their jobs and their families and say oh well you know we the truth is we all have stuff to lose people have this idea that oh there's these people who can speak out and these people who can't because these people are in some amazing it's like no there's people who are broke with jobs who will speak out and there are people who are billionaires

Starting point is 00:03:53 and who are self-employed and have true fu money and whatever but they're absolute cowards in fact this goes for the majority of celebrities. So it's more of a character thing. I think it's really a character thing. And it's one of those things that day to day, it's not always a problem, but everything we do is habitual. So both cowardice and courage are both habitual and contagious. So that's why I use that term pandemic of cowardice, right? Because when everyone else is behaving in a certain way, the fewer people who are speaking out, the harder it is to speak out. And one of the things that frustrates me about it is number one, it's why certain things keep getting worse because people are not taking any type of stand and continually refuse to for

Starting point is 00:04:41 years on end. But also it puts the burden on, it increases the burden on those of us who are willing to say something right people want to hide behind the sofa and to your own you know imagine i don't know you're you're you're with a group of friends and i don't know somebody jumps you and your friends all jump and hide behind a sofa and they're like yeah go get them pump go get them it's like bro like you're hiding behind the sofa like keep coming don't put it now now you know there's five of us and five of them now it's five on me and and when the fight's over then you have a friend who's like yeah i'm glad they left hold me back yeah exactly exactly so that's why it can get it can get frustrating so to me one of the things i hear most often i mean

Starting point is 00:05:25 i've been i travel a lot i've been to probably i mean most most people were not traveling much over the last few years i went to eight different countries dozens of different cities and when i get recognized in public or if i do meetups or you know the thing most people say is well firstly, thanks people who recognize me. Um, but I'm often thanked for my courage and that's really interesting to me because on one hand it is a compliment and I'm like, thanks. On another hand, it kind of annoys me because it makes me realize like, why is the bar for courage so low? Like I don't consider myself, maybe I'm a more courageous person than average, but I don't consider myself like ultra brave. I mean, there's people who are in, in the military, there's firefighters,

Starting point is 00:06:13 there's police officers risking their lives, dealing with really dangerous criminals and so on. I'm like, man, I wouldn't want to be in the military, right? Like I'm just, I'm just talking, I'm saying things, I'm talking on podcasts, I'm talking in my music, I'm talking on Twitter. That to me, that's, I mean, if people don't feel free to talk here in the, in the USA and the UK and Canada and Australia, or places where you're supposed to have actual freedom of speech, both in a legal sense and also in a cultural sense, then what hope do we have for the rest of the world? And part of the problem, another part of the problem with it is you can't fix anything unless you can talk. This is one of the biggest issues I have with political correctness. And

Starting point is 00:06:52 when I talk about political correctness, I'm not talking about basic politeness and civility. I'm talking about political correctness in the true sense that there's things you, you, oh, you, you can't talk about it. You can't, oh, you can't say that. It's like, what, how, how can there be a fact or a piece of data or a statistic or something that's just real? Or even, even if it's an opinion that you're, you just can't, you can't say, cause if you can't, if you're not allowed to discuss a topic, you can't, you can't fix it. And that's the, one of the biggest problems that is going on and is plaguing the West. As far as I'm concerned, there are certain issues that are happening on different levels, societal issues, crime issues, cultural issues,

Starting point is 00:07:34 political issues, and you're not even allowed to talk about them. Well, I mean, you, you are like, I'm not saying you're not allowed to, but people feel like you're not allowed to. There's social pressure. It's like legally you're allowed to talk about it. And if you talk about it, uh, no one is going to come knock on your door and say, uh, you are under arrest, but you will lose friends you will be shunned from certain groups and you will feel the social pressure of why are you talking about that why are you questioning this thing but do you think that there's been a shift from i don't know maybe it's nostalgia maybe it's a hindsight bias maybe it's just uh we're young dumb kids but growing up it felt like when you were told something by a position

Starting point is 00:08:18 of power expertise influence uh government you know whatever you want to put in that category the default was you believed it until you found something to make you question it yeah now it feels like the default when we're told something maybe it's the internet maybe it's whatever the default is i do not believe that and i question it and i only believe it once i learn the information that confirms that it's true uh-huh do you feel that shift from like the default position being acceptance to now maybe questioning that doesn't mean you don't believe it as much as it's just Like the default is now critical thinking or critical questioning of what you're being told.

Starting point is 00:08:56 Have we lived through the same past three years? I don't know. Have we? It's not the default. You don't think so? No, the default is complete acceptance of the narrative. Clearly. I don't know if I agree with that.

Starting point is 00:09:09 How can you disagree after what we've just lived through? Because if you look at the virus as one thing, I agree. If you look at the economic story, I don't think the majority of people in America believe that inflation is low, not a problem, transitory, whatever. Well, at this point, it's hitting them in the face. So it's hard for people to deny it now. A year ago, even though you could – it was obviously coming. A year ago, I think a majority of people would have bought that line. now you you can't say it and have any credibility because people are there and they're in their

Starting point is 00:09:49 store or they're at the gas pump and they're like well this is like that shit says five dollars and never said that before exactly right so and this this is this this is the sad reality is that people humans always have to learn the hard way right not every single person but in general people like learning the hard way uh they want to put their hand in in the fire and get burned you can tell them, yo, don't touch the fire. The fire, the fire is hot. And this goes across a lot of different subjects, but oftentimes the lesson will not be learned until it, until it happens. Then it affects that individual directly. This is something I've talked about for many years. And one reason why I publicly started speaking out more about a lot of stuff was just that I could

Starting point is 00:10:32 see where you could, I could, I just, I have a good foresight. I have good foresight. I practice second, third, fourth order thinking. And it's like, okay, well, this thing's going to lead to this thing and this thing's going to lead to this thing. And if there's no resistance, one crazy thing that can happen in a population is a very tiny minority of people who are dedicated can completely shift and control society and culture. Right. And I'm not even just talking about the people who are referred to as the elites or whatever. I'm talking about fringe activist groups. I'm talking about the ESG movement. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. But, but even, even on a lower scale, There are some really kooky ideas that have been floating around at this point for years, which almost nobody believes in.

Starting point is 00:11:16 But people are afraid to say that they don't. People will still go along with the narrative or at – Is there an example of something that like sticks out in your mind? Dude, I'm the British women's deadlift record holder. Still. Say that again for people so they get it. I said I'm the British women's deadlift record holder. Bro, that was –

Starting point is 00:11:37 No women's beat you? how can they they need to have some advantage um they need to have something most women still are the record holder i think if you google uk women's deadlift record someone can verify this for me but i think my name still pops right up um but my point is i did that in february 2019 this is three and a half years ago now this is still a conversation this is still a quote unquote debate and so on Bro, no one believes this. How many people, if you go outside, around the USA even, and you ask people, are biological males and females different? Do you think it is fair for males to compete against females in profession? No one believes it. No one believes that men can get pregnant.

Starting point is 00:12:23 No one believes that women have penises. But we're living in this weird world where people would even be afraid to say what I just said. Oh my gosh. You just said that women don't have penises. It's like, bro, like we know this. That's not a controversial statement. Why am I, why am I even saying this? Like we're in this weird battle of, of, for, for reality. That's one of the most concerning things about, about this all is that it's not that, okay, we're agreeing on objective reality and people have different opinions on how to interpret it or what should be done with it or so on. It's people are no longer even agreeing on objective reality. We saw this again, all through the, all through the pandemic situation. And it was like, well,

Starting point is 00:13:04 if, if we can't even like agree just on the reality and numbers and they, you know, just even just what we can all observe, then we're, we're in massive trouble, right? This goes back to like, I think the default was always, uh, at least the perception was like science and math were not political. Now it's not completely true. And, uh, maybe the science standpoint, because for decades, centuries, whatever, uh, there would be certain scientific breakthroughs. People wouldn't believe it. You know, the earth is round. People would get killed for saying that, whatever. Right. So it's not exactly black and white, but I do think that most people for a very long time thought that it wasn't like Fox news and MSNBC were going to argue

Starting point is 00:13:48 over gravity. Yes. Right. Like, like there was certain things that were just not where my mind started to change on this. And I was like, Oh shit, we're going to a place. We don't want to go was I read an article. This may be two to four years ago. So, you know, I forget exactly. And it talked about the massive investment that was being made by MSNBC, Fox news and CNN in weather interesting and i was like why are they all going so hard at weather and obviously the weather channel in the united states had been super successful and and there was a business there and then towards the end of the article i started talking about climate change it's a political issue yes i was like wait a minute ain't that a science issue no like what's going on and then

Starting point is 00:14:33 that's when it dawned on me i said oh my god the media companies are going to compete over science because whoever gets to say we have the science gets the political upper hand in all of their other coverage. Yeah. And dude, it's, it's, it's a problem. And the politicization of everything is, is a huge problem. I mean, I did a thread on this just the other day on, on Twitter. And I was just saying this obsession with politicizing and racializing everything, especially in the USA, it's a big problem. It happens in other places, but not like this. Like I'm from the, I'm from the UK and it's not any issue. I mean, you know, I don't know when this interview comes out, but as we, you know, just yesterday, there's another shooting that happened in a city and I'm there

Starting point is 00:15:21 and everyone's talking about race and Democrats and Republicans. And I'm like, guys, what the man like every time every time there's a there's a mass shooting there's a there's a tragedy there's something awful that happens people some people's minds immediately jumps to okay what race was the perpetrator what race was the uh were the victims um were what were their leanings were they right leaning were they were they a white nationalist or was a white guy was it was it a black and i'm like dude like the bodies are warm like how how are you immediately some tragedy happens your immediate thought is like, okay, how can I use this to fit my political agenda? Or how can I use this to demonize the group that I feel some kind of animosity towards or whatever? And I'm

Starting point is 00:16:07 like, dude, that's sick. Like that's, that's really messed up. Um, there's a time and place for certain conversations, but it's just like, man, like, and I think even with these, with these situations, this is another problem is that it's all talked about on such a shallow level. it's all talked about on such a shallow level you know it's like okay you're allowed to talk about guns of course you can talk about guns right you can fish oh you know it's guns guns guns you know when can we have the talk about the spiritual war that's going on when can we have a conversation about morality when can we have a conversation about family and fathers and community and morality right when could we even talk about you know you could you can sort of talk about

Starting point is 00:16:51 mental health and pharmaceuticals that's allowed but you know as soon as you go into kind of any spiritual or moral realm anything that's a little bit deeper you know it's like oh no we we we can't even we can't even talk about that it's like well you're gonna keep getting this problem until you're allowed to talk about it right if you're only if if the thing is just oh we need to ban ar-15s and we need to reduce the magazine i'm like bro like in the uk it's stabbings and in the uk they do the same thing by the way. They're like, Oh, maybe, yeah, we need to, maybe we need to reduce the length of knives. I'm like, dude, if someone wants to hurt or kill somebody, we all have access to lethal weapons. Every single person, we all own knives. We all pretty much

Starting point is 00:17:33 own vehicles. We have bats, we have clubs, we have fists, we have feet, right? If you want. And by the way, I think it's important for people to know that even in the U S way more people are killed by those weapons than they are by rifles, right? More people are stabbed to death, more people are beaten to death, right? And way more people obviously killed by handguns and so on. But it's just this obsession of, you know, we've got this political thing about this particular tool. And it's just so, it's so shallow and so superficial and so annoying. And ultimately the reason it, the reason it pisses me off is because people are just going to keep on getting hurt and keep on getting died and keep on dying until you, until some real conversations are had.

Starting point is 00:18:14 Yeah. Right. I think a lot about the media coverage of this stuff as well. So you're talking about like the internet conversation, right. To the degree of a shooting happens and immediately gets polarized. Media does the same thing. Um, yeah, but, but they also, uh, in some way are, uh, by not covering certain things, they are telling us a lot about society. And so, uh, I don't know, maybe the last couple of weeks or whatever, I saw that there's a Twitter account and uh every monday or sunday night they will tweet out how many people were shot and killed in chicago oh boy yeah and the numbers are like staggering it's insane right it'll be like you know 35 people were killed over the weekend and you're like yo what like i didn't hear about that

Starting point is 00:18:52 anywhere else and then you're like okay go in the comments take away their guns do this and then people are like dude the guns are illegal but like you can't have the gun right and the criminal soul somehow figure out how to get it and it goes back to this idea of like wait a minute like what if our entire like framework for evaluating the problem is wrong? It is wrong. And okay. So explain. It's completely wrong. As I said, look, it's a problem of the human heart and the human spirit, right? If you, why, why do I think sometimes it's important to not just consider why people do things, but to consider why they don't. Okay. So as we've established, we, we both have access and the physical capability to kill right we have access to weapons and we have the

Starting point is 00:19:37 capability to kill right um why don't we why don't we kill people no honestly right well one we want to be a good person yes right uh two is uh there's this almost a social contract for the people in your community of uh let's all get along to some degree uh three is you'll go to jail right so There's like a punishment component to it. I'd say that that's pretty low down. Oh, yeah. Well, here's the way – I think the moral aspects and ethical aspects are much, much higher than the threat of –

Starting point is 00:20:08 Without a doubt. I mean I remember when Egypt went through the uprising, I don't know, maybe eight years ago or whatever it was. And everyone was like, it was Twitter. It was Twitter. It was Twitter, right? And, yes, social media, without a doubt, I think everyone who looked at that situation and learned about it would say social media played a role. But you know what played a bigger role? they didn't have food yes guess what everyone thinks that they're a super moral uh ethical

Starting point is 00:20:34 person until literally they're looking at their wife and their kids and they're like if i don't go and kill our neighbor my kids won't eat and they will die of a starvation it's horrible it's just it just becomes the most brutal form of human nature and obviously those are very extreme cases. They happen very, very infrequently, uh, globally, thankfully, but you can take the watered down version and bring it back to there's a morality aspect. There's a huge morality aspect. Okay. Let's take one. Let's take one specific issue, which is a hot topic, not just in the U S but globally school shootings. Okay. When did that really, when did that become a more regular thing? Right. It's only in the past couple of decades. For sure. The guns have,

Starting point is 00:21:21 the guns have been there kids used to work in the 60s the seven kids were taking rifles to school kids had guns in their lockers and so on school shootings were very very rare right it was around the columbine time where it started to become this early 2000s probably yeah i want to say like i want to say like late 90s or early 2000s and so on so how can you say it's just the guns when the guns have always been there if the guns have always been there and the problem just really started say 25 years ago right how can you know guns were not introduced as a new thing um so yes of course there's more guns on the school campuses 25 plus years yes this is this this is my point right or even if you look within cities like where are shootings happening what's happening

Starting point is 00:22:06 in places with the heaviest gun control laws and so on and so forth it's not just as simple as more guns equals more shooting. It's really not that simple. Even if you look at a country like Europe, I think Switzerland is the most heavily armed country in Europe, I believe, followed by Finland, right? And you're not getting a lot of shootings in, you know, there's probably more shoot. I believe there's going to be more shootings in the UK than there are in Switzerland, even per capita and so on. So it's not that simple. The problem is people wanting to hurt and kill other people. If you decided, if an individual decides they want to hurt or kill another person or a group of people, they will use whatever tools are at their disposal. Yes, sure, it might be easier

Starting point is 00:22:52 to kill people with a gun, but there's bombs, there's knives, there's vehicles, right? Some of the most brutal killings that have happened in Europe were just someone taking a van or a truck and just running it through a crowd. That's what happened in New York City. I think it's happened at least two stories that i know yeah uh and in one case they rented like a u-haul truck and just drove down the bike path so my the thing is okay so the questions to me is like why what what possesses someone to do that and as i said the flip side okay most people 99.9 percent of people wouldn't even dream of doing that wouldn't do it so what are they getting right and what's going wrong here and if you look at the individuals who do this there's always a

Starting point is 00:23:30 pattern. First, it's always young men. It's not women doing it. It's not girls. It's always young men typically between say 15 and 30. Okay. Hmm. What else do they have in common? Majority of time, there's no father in the picture. Okay. That's, that's a factor. Oftentimes they're on some type of psychoactive substance or drug, right? Oftentimes they are known to the authorities already right there there's a certain profile where you could narrow this down and be like okay what's going on here right so there's some type of depravity here there's some type of moral loss the way this child has been raised something that's going on in their brain like there's some there's stuff that's going on there um and i don't have all the answers my thing is just

Starting point is 00:24:18 this conversation we're having this this should be the conversation as soon as people are just Oh, you know, I'm talking about magazine sizes and AR-15s. I'm just like, dude, you don't think that person could have done that with a handgun or with a shotgun or like, it's just so, I know people have their political pet causes and they have their, people like this idea. Here's another big one. And I've tweeted this before and it went viral. I said, we keep looking for political realm solutions to spiritual realm problems and

Starting point is 00:24:47 being surprised when it doesn't work. Yeah, I think it's a great way. Not everything can be solved with politics. And people don't like to hear that because in this rather increasingly secular society that we're living in, people increasingly view the government as the be-all and end-all and view everything through this political lens. I also think there's an element where when it's politics, I have a weapon to tell you what to do. Yes. When it's spiritual, I only have a weapon to try to improve my situation. that there's there's no way for me really to use uh a spiritual tool to impact you control you or

Starting point is 00:25:25 anything right yes you can try to get you to go to church or you know whatever uh but it's not as direct of a control mechanism as let's change the rules let's use the police let's you know do whatever i i am i'm reading this book uh it's called cult uh i was in the bookstore and i saw what the hell is this right open it up 10 people and uh as you can imagine cults have a very negative connotation um and usually because they end in some horrific way yes uh and the first 50 pages of this book charles manson and the whole story now charles manson i think a lot of people would say uh i heard the name before especially young people uh i know bad person uh there's some murders but i don't really know the story in this book the first 20 25 pages is all about his

Starting point is 00:26:13 childhood okay it's exactly what you're talking about absolutely horrific got moved uh multiple times between all these different homes in and out of jail uh to the point where like 10 years old like stealing a car and like going across state lines right i mean just like to the point where you're just like this is really bad compared on the scale of like a bad 10 year old right um And it's just like if you looked at that child's life, you wouldn't think that they became the president of the United States. Now, you might not jump to the conclusion that there was murder and cults and kind of the other extreme, but it's kind of just like, yeah, of course that person has challenges. Yes. And of course that person probably ended up in a place that society was like, man, we wish that people didn't go there.

Starting point is 00:27:01 And so it just made me think a lot about like that is a situation where like there's no ability for somebody else to show up without understanding that backstory and be able to help that individual. Like the context is so important. Now, again, that doesn't excuse the behavior. It doesn't do any of this stuff, right? It's still horrific. But like that's a pretty big fucking detail of a story. and as you see some of these people who go and do these horrific things today in society that's what you're talking about like there's the uh the drugs that they're on it's broken families

Starting point is 00:27:35 it's uh known to the authorities that's the one that always gets me it's like you're telling me that the police knew this person had threatened to go kill people a bunch of times and somehow they still did it like dismembered a kid in or like done some really effed up thing and you know we don't have the data so we don't know how many times does the authorities get alerted to uh this person is a person of interest, right. Or however they characterize it. And then what percent of those people actually go and do something super horrific. You also can't arrest crime people for crimes they have not committed. Correct. Right. Um, that's a fact, you know, there's, there's so many factors and it, and it's complicated, you know, I'm not,

Starting point is 00:28:10 and that's part of the problem. I think this is why people want the simple solution. People, people want the simple solution. It's, it's complicated and it's also generational and it's multifaceted, right? I'm not saying that it's just the one, one thing, right. There can be political elements, social elements, religious or spiritual elements, like overall morality and social fabric elements and so on, you know, a huge family component as well. You know, how rare is it for someone who is like, you know, well-raised in a stable, loving family to go on and do anything like this, right? It's extremely, extremely rare. And this is not to say that, you know, most people who aren't raised in that environment go on and do that. But, you know, it's it also begs a question, which I don't have the answer to.

Starting point is 00:28:55 OK, should the parents be held accountable for certain actions of their kids? This episode is brought to you by Unstoppable Domains. They've partnered with Blockchain.com to create NFT domain names ending in dot blockchain. It's the perfect ending to show that you're a believer in a decentralized future. The Blockchain.com community can join a short wait list to get one for free at Blockchain.com slash wait list slash blockchain domain. Free NFT domains provide all the benefits of premium Unstoppable domains, including fee-free lifelong ownership. If you don't have a Blockchain.com wallet, no worries, there's new free domains available to everyone. Either join the waitlist for a free Blockchain.com domain or visit UnstoppableDomains.com to buy your domain today starting as low as $5.

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Starting point is 00:30:43 parents too like hey what's going on here you know whatever uh okay that's like i don't know petty theft if you even want to characterize that as a 10 year old taking a candy bar or something if your kid goes on a and does a school shooting okay like that's a whole different ball game and there's a bunch of stuff in between but right now there's this complex question of the parents you don't control the kid right especially the kids over 18 and all these things but also how do you create a system that incentivizes good parenting? Right. And so like maybe it's incentives, it's not punishments, maybe it's punishments and end incentives. I don't know what the answer is, but it just feels like a really important question that we have to ask

Starting point is 00:31:26 ourselves is like, how do we incentivize better parenting so that maybe we could divert, even if it was 10% of the bad stuff, that'd be a win. Yeah. And, and you know, I, I'm not a parent yet, But it's really hit me over the last few years that there is no – I think the importance of parenting is vastly underestimated and underappreciated, both in the positive and the negative. Because if you really think about like how stuff ripples out and resonates out, I mean it's insane. So the person I am and my four siblings is, yeah, some of it is just, you know, your genetics and your personality, but a lot of it is how we were raised. Okay. And by me being raised in a certain way and being put on a certain path and instilled with certain morals, I then have, how many people do I impact on a daily, monthly, annual basis? I reach millions of people.

Starting point is 00:32:21 Right. And so, and those people then also reach thousands or millions. So the way both the positivity and the negativity ripples out into wider society cannot be understated. If you raise a terror of a child, if you raise a demon child, right, that's not just bad for them and bad for the family. That's bad for society. That's bad for your wider community. That's bad for your country because they go on and they hurt people and they're leaving in their wake this path of destruction, which is now impacting all these other people. And then oftentimes it becomes a generational thing and that's passed on.

Starting point is 00:32:59 You know, you can pass down the goodness or you can pass on the nightmare. And yeah, sure, that cycle can be broken in both ways. So I think it's actually understated and underappreciated just how important parents are and families are because that's really the foundation for an individual's whole life. And then, like I said, yeah, that individual impacts others. And I think this is uncomfortable. It's very uncomfortable for people to discuss this. Like this is a conversation that's considered very unpolitically correct, right? Even if you tell people that it's better for a child to have a mother and a father, people are like, oh, right?

Starting point is 00:33:34 People want to immediately want to object to that now, like not long ago in most parts of the world as a completely not not even a slightly controversial statement. It's like, duh, obviously. Right. And here it's it's contentious and it's hard. And, you know, sure, if someone's like, oh, well, you know, well, I was raised by a single mom and I'm like, bro, no one is attacking you. People deem everything as an attack. Everyone personalizes everything. Right. But they also switch it. When you say it's better for the child, it immediately jumps to don't attack single moms or single fathers or whatever. But it's like if you're optimized, if the sole optimization is what is the best thing for a child, let's have that conversation. By the way, like you can disagree.

Starting point is 00:34:14 You can have other facts, like whatever. But it's like stay focused on what are we optimizing for in this specific conversation versus try to twist it around. And do you know another thing that's plaguing the West is this obsession with exceptions. Oh, interesting. Right. People trying to base everything on exceptions rather than the general rule. OK, so everyone everyone's we're focusing on exceptions to the detriments of the norm and the majority. Right. So with any particular issue, someone will want to say, oh, well, you know, what about this or what about that? And it's like, dude, can we talk about like the 90% scenario or the 98% scenario rather than obsessing over these exceptions and basing the rules and the standards and the

Starting point is 00:35:00 norms around exceptions rather than around norms? In anything, you're going to have exceptions, right? If I say, you know, oh, people have five, you know, five fingers on each hand. Someone's like, oh, well, you know, my auntie has six fingers on her. Or, you know, oh, well, what about- So let's make all the gloves with six fingers. Yeah, that's insensitive. You know, I lost my left left hand in a in a in an accident.

Starting point is 00:35:23 I'm like, dude, I'm not. Yes, I recognize there are people who do not have 10 fingers. There's people with more. There's people with fewer. That does not change the general fact that people have 10 fingers, you know. So, yes, there are children who can be raised in all sorts of you know, there's children who can be raised in what looks like an idyllic, perfect environment. and they go on and, you know, they're, they're screw ups. And there can be people who are raised in very, very bad situations and so on. And they go on and achieve great things. Yes, we, we know there are billions of humans. There's so much variety and variation, but objectively all other things being equal, even by a simple factor of two being more than one, it is better for a child to have two parents. We know this, that's not a controversial statement, right? And yes, there

Starting point is 00:36:10 And there can be – and you have to acknowledge exceptions, right? There are people who are widows, right? Someone dies or this happens or that happens, right? Not everything works out perfectly. But just because not everything works out perfectly doesn't mean you blow up and disintegrate the standard, right? And this is what I'm seeing. I'm seeing all the standards being disintegrated, right, in the name of making people feel comfortable or feel more accommodated and so on and so forth. And in this avoidance of avoiding hurting anyone's feelings in any type of way, we've essentially in the West prioritized people's feelings over objective reality, even when that's extremely detrimental.

Starting point is 00:36:44 You want to see another great example of this? Look at this whole fat acceptance, body positivity thing. Right? It literally is wild. It's wild. Yeah. It's wild, right? Obesity is being promoted.

Starting point is 00:36:58 And this is the biggest killer of people. This is a problem that, again, it didn't really used to be a big problem. You could go back less than 100 years ago, and obesity was very rare. Obesity was very rare. And just in a century, in one person's lifetime, we've got into a stage where the majority of adults in this country are overweight or obese. The majority, right? Childhood obesity did not used to exist, right? You look at fat kids from like the 70s or the 80s, and it's like, oh, he's only like slightly chubby.

Starting point is 00:37:28 Now it's like a fat kid weighs more than I do, right? And it's getting worse. And it got worse over the last couple of years, despite the fact that 80 percent of the people hospitalized with the Rona overweight or obese can't talk about that. And it's like, dude, do you care? Do we care about like not offending anybody or do we care about actually trying to help people? I've always thought for a long time now, normalizing offending people and just like we are not going to be held captive by trying to tiptoe around offending. You can't do it. It's just, listen, again, objectively, if you are unhealthy, it is bad for you.

Starting point is 00:38:07 There will be people who hear you and I say that, and they will be like, these guys are assholes. Yeah, but what about someone who had a car crash and has a thyroid issue, and so they got – it's the exception. And I'm just like, dude, I recognize most people who are obese are not obese because they have some hereditary thyroid issue or because they got disabled in a car accident. It's because they eat too much and they don't move enough. But I also think there's an exception issue. There's also what I'll call like a reverse extreme issue. So when you say people should be healthy, immediately Americans are idiots. So like everyone, you expect everyone to have a six pack, be able to squat 400 pounds and they only can eat like a rabbit lettuce.

Starting point is 00:38:55 You are an asshole. Right. And you're just like, no, dude, we're talking about like, can you go outside and walk down the street without losing your breath? Yes. Right. Like, like that's the baseline to start. Yes. And then it's even like you start thinking about, uh, I do think a lot about like, if you just say healthy rather than like people should work out for whatever reason.

Starting point is 00:39:16 Like we're all stupid, you know, uh, uh, idiot animals. And we're like, Oh, healthy sounds like healthy sounds good. Like that's a nice rapper. That's acceptable. Workout. You shouldn't be able to tell me to work out. What are you, who are you to tell me that I need to be a certain size to fit in pants or this or like, no dude, just be healthy.

Starting point is 00:39:34 Like literally just whatever that means for you. By the way, some people feel healthy because they, uh, run on a treadmill or ride a stationary bike or, uh, do like cardio stuff. other people feel healthy when they go and they lift weights some people i don't know there's a lot of fucking people in suburban america who if you go around about i don't know 9 30 10 o'clock what do you see walking a bunch of people walking and some of them even have some weights in their hand right like that's how they feel healthy great who cares what they're doing it's just like that direction is way better than us being like you know what 400 pounds let's put the mannequin

Starting point is 00:40:11 out there. And, uh, that, that, that is, that's the new standard. Yeah. That's like a good thing. Look, look at us. Yeah. That's, yeah. That's, that's the worst part of it. It's when they do the, you know, healthy at any size, you can be obese. No, you cannot be obese and healthy, right? You cannot be healthy at any size. That is a lie. If you are 600 pounds, you are not healthy period. All right. You cannot be healthy at any size. It's a complete lie. And something I've noticed about this is doctors never say that. And something that's interesting about this is uh have you noticed it's only targeted at women only there's no body positivity fat acceptance movement for men the so i i may disagree on that okay and the only disagreement

Starting point is 00:40:48 i would say is the whole like dad bod it didn't work though but but but when i go to like a department store which unfortunately you will not see me in very often uh but i was recently in new york and uh they had a bunch of the women mannequins that you know whatever uh and i don't think I saw any of the men ones, but I've seen pictures on the internet of the like dad bod with like the collared shirt or whatever. Have you ever seen that on the cover of a men's magazine, a fitness magazine? No. Right. But you'll see, you'll see fat women on the cover. You know, it's, um, so this is how, you know, this stuff is very engineered. It's very engineered. It's not, it's not organic and people call it compassion. I don't think it's compassion. I think it's cruel

Starting point is 00:41:32 straight up i i think i i don't think it's compassionate at all i think that man well you're lying to people that you're lying this is the part that i think uh it's kind of like feedback in business there's a lot of times uh business leaders and this is pretty well documented right business leaders will be super nice to folks and the companies never work okay because what happens is like the truth is never said so if you keep going to work every day and you're never told hey you're slacking on something we need you to improve you never improve right and if you never improve the business doesn't improve and then therefore it's much harder to be successful yeah so it doesn't mean you have to go be an asshole someone's got to yell and scream at

Starting point is 00:42:13 you and call you an idiot and like all this stuff it's it's what is what how did you describe it before the reverse extreme yeah that that's that's literally what it is you say one thing you know i'm like you know i i i like apples and it's oh you hate bananas i'm just like dude like you forgot to mention what about pineapples what about i was like it's like dude like canceled yeah that's the thing you know and it's it's it's just a problem because again you can't fix things there are certain things that are getting worse the obesity problem is getting worse did you see the adele it's getting worse story oh and people hating on her for losing weight she lost weight and all i saw two tweets about now i just got to keep scrolling because

Starting point is 00:42:54 i'm uh fucking but it's don't don't you think it's interesting not to i don't even want to make this like a gendered conversation but don't you think it's interesting how that's like like man that's not a male thing at all jonah hill remember you uh the actor yeah he lost a bunch of weight and uh it was treated very differently of course right and there's just two anecdotes yeah whatever yeah but but it's real by the way i've observed this my whole life not just on social media but there is a difference in this regard right i mean even if right what's the criticism of what's the criticism of of barbie dolls right the unrealistic body standards and this and that or you know someone there was that in the uk there was this company called i think

Starting point is 00:43:34 they were called protein world and they had this ad which said you know are you beach body ready and had this foot woman fit woman in a bikini and it became this like huge outrage thing right they went after them so hard and whatever by the way they had a male one as well and no one cared about you know the are you beach body ready with the male body but this one's misogynistic and this and unrealistic expectations like bro have you seen have you seen what action figures look like have you have you ever seen superman or batman or wolverine or psycho with their freaking pecs and their 16 pack and they're like we're just sure do you imagine superman with a dad no but but the point is no one ever said oh this is setting an unrealistic and harmful

Starting point is 00:44:14 expectation for young boys and it's gonna so there's something like really interesting going on there right like because women uh have through society's kind of reinforcement more of a focus on appearance their appearance and i say this as somebody who uh i've got a nine-month-old daughter and i think about even just if you walk into a toy store right if you walk into certain things like you walk down the street the way that people say things sure it's like oh she's so pretty yeah and like i don't have the experience of having a son so i don't know would people be like oh he's so handsome maybe but like for whatever reason i'm like no she's fucking a genius for sure right sure like and so it's like a weird thing do you think that plays

Starting point is 00:44:58 into it absolutely i think it absolutely plays into it i i think it would be i think it's clear and obvious that across societies and cultures that women are valued more on appearance than men or women are judged the way men and women are judged is different and the way men judge women and the way women judge men is different, right? I was saying actually to someone the other day that you'll often hear, feminists in particular, but other people often say, you know, that there's men who look at women like sex objects.

Starting point is 00:45:30 There are men who do that, sure. There are also, one could argue that society and women view men as success objects, right? um if a man the way men and women view and sort of rate and rank each other is is just different right it's just different if you are a high-powered successful man in your career and you're accomplished in this and that that weighs differently to a woman with the same achievements right guys will be like yeah but is she hot you know that's why i'm surprised they've ever gone after the dating apps what's that i'm surprised that like the mob has never gone after the dating

Starting point is 00:46:10 apps where literally uh judgments on humans are being made by the photo that you're shown and you're swiping left or right in like the most uh uh impersonal way possible but the initial impression which by the way is exactly what happens in real life too is based on looks it does and i've always been shocked that they're not like this is ridiculous yeah you know these conversations are interesting, because the truth is, biology always exists. You know, so we can talk about like this and this. And there's many things in the world where maybe we think it sort of, it feels unfair, or it feels like a double standard. Oh, how come it's like this? Or, you know, it should be like that it should be. And within reason, you can make certain accommodations,

Starting point is 00:46:54 right? You can certainly treat people fairly, right? This is generally how I operate across the board. And what I strive to do is simply treat people fairly, treat everybody decently. Equal is a weird word because equal is equal. Human beings are, we're equal, but we're not, right? In a spiritual sense, like in a religious sense, in a worth of your life and how the laws should apply to you and so on. I believe human beings are equal. I believe human beings are created in the image of God, right? We're all equal. In the literal sense, we're not equal at all in any way. We're all very, we're very different. We're the most diverse species that's out there, right? We're not equally tall. We have different body weights. We look completely

Starting point is 00:47:43 different. We have different eye colors. Some people are attractive. Some people are less attractive. Some people are highly athletic. Some people are very intelligent. Some people are dumb. Some people are right. Like we're, we're, we're not, we're not equal at all in, in that sense. And also when it comes to say conversations about men and women, men and women are equal in a sense, right. In terms of your worth, in terms of your, your value and so on. But we're fundamentally like as groups, we are, we're different. And that's, that's not a problem, right? There's people who problematize that, right? They almost want this like homogenous, genderless, weird society where it's weird. Cause at the same time, these people will be like diversity, diversity,

Starting point is 00:48:23 diversity. And then at the same time, they kind of want everyone to just be the same, just to be these like genderless blobs who there's no difference between the males and the females. And everyone, maybe those categories don't even exist. And everyone's just, you know, everyone even earns the same amount of money and everyone does the same. And it's like, dude, that sucks. Like that's, and it's just not real. It's not realistic. It's silly to have a goal. Number one, that's not even a good goal, but it's unachievable. It's like, why would you want to achieve that? And you're also not going to use, you see this in many things where people are even trying to force like certain things to be 50, 50 in terms of gender, right? Oh, we want,

Starting point is 00:48:57 you know, it should be 50, 50. Number one, it's funny because people only want that in certain jobs and sectors, right? I've never seen anyone advocating that 50% of construction workers or garbage disposal people or crab fishers or lumberjacks should be female. Um, it's only like cushy executive jobs and whatever. Um, but it's also like, why, like what problem are you trying to fix? Why is it an issue that most primary school teachers are female? That's not an issue to me. Men should be allowed to be primary school teachers and they shouldn't be discriminated against. Like if you're treating, again, it comes back to fairness. If you're treating people unfairly, that's a problem. If you're unfairly discriminating against people, that's a problem.

Starting point is 00:49:36 Everyone should have the opportunity to do what they want. But understanding basic human nature and basic biology, you recognize that you're not going to get like this perfect magical split on everything. Because men and women, lo and behold, have different interests. You're in the Bitcoin and crypto space. It's probably what? Eight men to one women? Not because women are not allowed in Bitcoin or crypto. It's literally like the most open thing available.

Starting point is 00:50:03 but there's just more, it's more of a masculine tendency to be interested in that kind of stuff, right? I'm a rapper. What percentage of rappers are male? It's a very male dominated, not women are allowed to rap. There's just more men who are into it. And you can find that on the inverse. There's plenty of things that are female dominated and so on. And it's just like, cool, that's fine. As long as people are not being unfairly discriminated against and there's equality of opportunity at the point of entry, then I don't have a problem with it. Let the fall where they do and then people do it with like race and so on and again they're very selective with it right imagine how crazy it would sound if someone came and said that like the nba and the

Starting point is 00:50:41 nfl are racist against non-black people right they'd be like oh my gosh black men are seven percent of the population and they're over 70 of the nba this is clearly where where are all the where are the jews where are the asians where are the it's like do you go just like it's a it's a meritocracy like everyone's allowed to play basketball well it's also this is how the nba they discriminate against short people yeah how can we forget right like how like that's that's unfair yeah right i'm not six five that's fucked up i'd have been michael jordan y'all be talking about anthony popliano if i if y'all let me in there right but like it's like yeah no shit yeah it's you know it's it's really funny how people do it because when you bring up those type of

Starting point is 00:51:22 examples people see how silly it is but then they'll run off and they'll do that in a whole leather sector and i'm like wait why why would you expect everything everywhere to perfectly represent the population demographics that's just not how it works there's a a weird thing of um when people try to do the right thing there's people who definitely are uh not good actors or not kind of well-intentioned right so put those people aside for a second people who say like um let's use a computer science okay uh as a sector there's a lot of folks who say hey there's not uh as many women or uh minorities in that sector now put aside for a second whether people want to debate that or not or whatever just hold that as as a truth yeah in most cases what would make

Starting point is 00:52:07 sense is cool let's go do things to incentivize more of those people to do it yes sometimes it's like an exposure thing if you live in an area where no one's ever told you that's even a possibility then like you don't know how many kids end up going through a high school and their high school had some program, they get exposed to something and that ends up being their career. And if they'd gone to the high school across town that didn't have that program, they would have never even been exposed to that thing and whatever. So like, okay, cool. Like you can do all these things that help build up one group or one effort without tearing down the others. And it works in reverse as well, right? Where, uh, people say like, um, you know, the NBA,

Starting point is 00:52:47 it'd be like saying, okay, we only can have 50% of a certain type of person, whether it's race, height whatever so well why don't you just try to go get more people to try out that you know fit some other criteria and i actually think that if just that was the focus cool you identified something that you want to change like go work to change it in a positive way but you're not allowed to tear down other things yes society would be like way chiller yeah and people would be like you know what like i actually like that effort i think that's great it's when it becomes like a zero-sum game that's where you get all the politicalization of it that's where you get the debates that's where you get all the fucking sensitivities like and then it just spirals out

Starting point is 00:53:24 of control yeah because now now if it's if it's zero sum yeah well we're playing a zero sum game we've both agreed we're playing a zero sum game i'm not losing yeah which means you have to lose yeah if it's positive sum then it's much more working together man i have so many things i could say on this dude we got a lot long time go ahead well first first of all this this zero sum mindset thing is a real plague. It's a big problem. People need to understand that life is not a zero sum game. Money is not a zero sum game. Health and fitness is not a zero sum game. Relationships and dating or whatever, these things are not zero sum. And one of the amazing things about the world, one of the coolest things with all the diversity we have in humanity is there

Starting point is 00:54:13 are millions of games to play and you only need to be really good at one to be successful. Right. So, I mean, just look at jobs in Korea, like how many different ways are there to make money? Right. So, oh, you, oh, you can't make it in the NBA. You're not six foot six and amazing at basketball. Do you know what? There's another million things that you can, you can create in this day and age. You could even create your own thing. Like, look at what we both do for a living. Like this, we probably struggle to explain this to like our great grandparents and be like, wait, you do what for a living? That's not a job.

Starting point is 00:54:45 Like, what do you, what do you mean? Or you have a podcast where you sit and you talk to people like, wait, you, you do none of it, none of it, no level of it makes any sense. And it's just like, that's awesome. So you don't need to, if you're not competitive in a particular field or you're just not interested in it, it's like, cool. Like you can just get in where you fit in, man. Like we all have a different pool of talents.

Starting point is 00:55:07 We all have different experiences and interests and personalities, and that's dope because if we didn't, if we didn't, the world, firstly, the world wouldn't even work because the way everything works with free trade is we all have different services and products that we can offer that other people find value in, and we're all constantly exchanging. That's literally what the economy is. People have been brainwashed to think the economy is like some stock ticker or something. This is what the point I was making back in 2020 when they were locking down and shutting down. And I was like, yo, you're crushing the economy. People are like, you care more about the economy than human? I'm like, bro, human lives rely on the economy and human lives are, we are the economy, right? Like our ability to interact and trade and do all, like this is, this is what gives everything,

Starting point is 00:55:53 everything value and also gives us meaning and purpose. It's not the stock price when you say the economy. No, it's literally the corner store isn't fucking open and I need food. And if I can't get food, you got 72 hours where people are going to start doing fucked up shit. Exactly. Like, yeah, and sure, they didn't shut down the grocery stores, but they shut down a hell of a lot of businesses. Yeah, and that was the thing with it. So people need to get out of this zero-sum mindset thing.

Starting point is 00:56:17 This is also where the whole, like, eat the rich thing comes from, right? People think that by, oh, their neighbor made money or that person has money, so therefore they must have stolen it from everyone else. The reason why there are poor people is because there are rich people. There's people who believe that. There's hundreds of millions of people who believe that, that poor people are just there because there are rich people and it's the rich people being selfish and it's just them being greedy. And that's why, you know, there's this limited pool of money and they're just hoarding it.

Starting point is 00:56:44 So those people there can't get some. And I mean, people have believed this for centuries. It's what so much of like Marxist thought and what it's all this zero sum mentality thinking. So people need to get out of that mindset and everything because it's number one, it's literally not correct. And then number two is it just makes people very resentful and it creates more animosity and more division and so on.

Starting point is 00:57:06 And it stops people from taking that personal responsibility and bettering themselves. Coming back to a different point that you were making before, I'm so glad you talked about this encouraging people to know about and have access to certain opportunities, because I experienced this myself in a very interesting way when I was in university. so um i studied computer science at oxford when i was at oxford for going to oxford man are you from cambridge or something um you're educated oh you have an unfair advantage you know what people at oxford and cambridge call the other university the other place oh jesus christ so people from cambridge call

Starting point is 00:57:51 oxford the other place people from oxford call cambridge the other place there's a little uh a little rivalry there um but yeah when when I was in university it was really interesting so in my first year there so in the whole university of I think I think Oxford at the time I want to say has around I want to say 12 12 to 15,000 undergraduate students okay um Oxford got put in the spotlight because out of that say 15,000 undergraduate students do you know how many black people they had. Actually, I have a guess. This episode is brought to you by FTX US. They're the safe, regulated way to buy and sell Bitcoin and other digital assets. Trade crypto with up to 85% lower fees than the top competitors. There are no fixed minimums,

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Starting point is 00:59:43 And so there were newspaper articles and stuff. Oxford is racist clearly this institutional racism and there was all this talk you know because that's how people look at things they just see a disparity and their brain immediately jumps to some type of bigotry discrimination racism sexism whatever it is right they don't think and my immediate thought was oh wow that's low like how many applied and then if you look at it it was like oh okay like not that many people are that many black people like even applied and um when i was there i was part of something called the oxford access scheme which was to uh do exactly what you were saying so bring in school students from

Starting point is 01:00:31 certain backgrounds more like it wasn't really it wasn't like a racial thing per se but more like uh, certain inner cities and state schools and so on places where most, so Oxford and Cambridge in the UK are obviously viewed as these very elite establishments. They're kind of viewed as things that there, there are many people in schools or certain sectors of life who don't even think that they or their children or whatever can ever go to Oxford or Cambridge. Like it's not, it's not even on their radar, right? Like if you go to, if you go to like a private boarding school or, you know, you're from Eden or Howard, like there's a whole tradition of people going to Oxford and Cambridge, right? But from certain schools, it's like no one from that school has ever gone to Oxford or

Starting point is 01:01:14 Cambridge. Like even the teachers are, it's not even on the radar. The students don't believe they can go. Kid is guided in a different direction if that's even an aspiration. Yeah. So, so this scheme was just to, you know, show people and encourage academically gifted students, regardless of whether they were from a private school or a state school or whatever, um, to consider higher education, number one, and if they have the academic chops, potentially Oxford or Cambridge. And that I think is the right type of approach. So if someone does think, oh, okay, there's, you know, like there's, okay, there's a, there's

Starting point is 01:01:51 a real disparity here, like very, very clear, like some, maybe something's going on there, then that's the way to handle it. The way to handle it isn't to reduce the bar or to create a quota system where you start bean counting how many people of – we need this many people of this gender and this many people of these race, racial and ethnic groups and so on. Because once you do that, you're – the only way you can achieve it through that method is active discrimination, right? So if you're going to create a quota, like you said, like you joked about with the NBA, if you said there's – OK, there's a 50 percent hard cap on – People over six foot. Yeah, right? Then now you have to discriminate against people in order to so-called balance it out.

Starting point is 01:02:33 And again, what – you're now creating the problem, right? Because if your claim is that the problem is unfair treatment and unfair discrimination and your idea to remedy that is unfair treatment and unfair discrimination, then it's like, well, you've just created a problem. This isn't hypothetical though. This is here in the United States, Yale, which is probably equivalent as these schools, was accused of and I believe was actually found responsible. I don't want to say guilty because I don't know exactly how kind of it played out. But they had introduced certain quotas and criteria in the academic application process. And I think that they actually ended up having discriminated against Asian students. and so you like look at it and you're like oh there's some someone along the line was saying

Starting point is 01:03:25 exactly what you're saying and they were like well i'm not just gonna go say it you know and and uh just move on to the next topic i'm gonna go bring it to the courts and there was agreement like yes you you cannot do this uh or you should not do this uh which then begs the question of like well what about all the other schools that yeah exactly yeah there was a big scandal with it with harvard as well, discriminating potentially against Asian students. And that's, um, it's, it's so odd. And it's also, it's also bigoted in multiple directions. This is the thing, right? So I'll tell you one thing that I would, I'll tell you something I would hate. Okay. And I never say this, but as a black man, I never, I never start a sentence with that. Right. But I would hate

Starting point is 01:04:11 to think or feel that I am in my position or I achieved something simply because I'm like a diverse, I was a diversity hire. Like that I got into Oxford because they just needed more black students. Not because I'm smart enough or I did well enough in my exams, but just because they, they lowered the bar for me because I mean, that's the hard bigotry of low expectations. So the thing should never be, oh, let's reduce the standard. It's like, cool. Like, let's try to get, we can try to get more people from whatever community, whatever demographic over this bar or encourage people to apply or whatever it is. But I think at that point of application, whether it's a university position, it's a job, whatever, you've got to run with the meritocracy because

Starting point is 01:04:56 otherwise you are, you're creating really bad conditions. And I think, I think it's bad for everyone. I think it sucks for, I mean, an Asian student who has worked hard, who is an individual, Like Asians are not a group. Like these are individual human beings. A kid who's worked really hard in school and done well in his exams and you're going to make it harder for him to go to a university because he's of Asian – because his parents are from Korea or from China or something. That is insane. That's racism. Like that's crazy.

Starting point is 01:05:25 Also, oh, there's a kid who's – oh, his parents are Latino or black or – and oh, we're – oh, he might not be as smart as the Asian or the white kid. So let's lower the bar. like what are you insane like it's it's so backwards to me and that's why i think it's hilarious how it's called progressivism because like so much stuff that they do is backwards um but yeah no i i i have a real problem with that and i think it creates so much resentment it's the same thing i i hate i hate the concept of white privilege explain hate it why because it's racist and it's bullcrap it's not real right like it it's it's bad for everybody i don't see how i i we were raised in like a a normal time right like it honestly feels like that yeah like

Starting point is 01:06:15 like during the 90s we were just i don't know i mean i wasn't i grew up in saudi arabia but i was like yo i had extremely diverse classes what i was like just whatever like people are people treat people as individuals. None of my friends are ever like focused on like what skin color people are. Oh, your parents are from this country or that or whatever. We were all just there and it was all cool. Everything was fine. And I think that's how like most of us in our generation were raised. But people are going back to the sort of like racial essentialism where you're no longer looking at people as individuals, but everyone is being made extraordinarily conscious of what group that they fit into. And then not just that, but you are then assigning whether virtues or sins

Starting point is 01:06:58 to entire groups, right? So you're telling a young white kid that he is somehow privileged or he's an oppressor, or he should have some type of guilt, some permanent, some type of permanent guilt, something he's never done because centuries ago, someone who shared his melanin content did some, like on multiple levels, it's just insane. And then you're telling, oh, you're telling the black kid now that, okay, well, society as a whole, all the institutions, the whole system, everything is set up against you, right? You're going to have to work five times as hard as your white friends in order what the police by the oh also like you need to stay away from the police because they're all racist and they're probably gonna like shoot you what

Starting point is 01:07:50 oh and by the way you should like feel some type of way about you're just creating resentment on all these levels now those kids are going to school and they're looking at each other not like oh this is my friend johnny this is my friend billy it's like oh well i'm in this position i i have this color he has that color and so um i should be treated this way or i can't say this or we should i don't like i don't like any of it it's almost the again reverse extreme yes uh skin color doesn't matter to now it's skin color is everything right is that kind of it's yeah it's a it's a regression right because that used to be the problem it go back to 1850 right in the 1850 usa i was like skin color is everything like that we should judge people based on this you know black

Starting point is 01:08:37 people are this and white people are this and so therefore this and therefore that and it's like bro okay we all acknowledge that was a huge problem and then it's like okay cool we we generally fixed it got to a place where you know 90 of plus people i mean and now you want to reintroduce it again in the name of you know wokeness or progressivism and you now want people again to start to view i've heard you know these so-called progressive people saying that you know, it's bad to be colorblind, right? Or no, we must see race. We need to see it. We need to talk about it. We need to acknowledge in every conversation, right? One of these wokies will come into this conversation and they'll insert, they'd insert it into this conversation. They'd be there

Starting point is 01:09:15 like trying to analyze the power dynamic between us two and be like, oh, well, you know, he's in this category and he's in this. This is the women's British deadlifting champion. I want to And it's also all the assumptions that come with it as well. Right. Like it's operating off such a low resolution worldview. Right. These people have this worldview that like every white person is like quaffing champagne on their yacht and has like generations and generations of inherited wealth and what like they completely like ignore the like the vast majority of white people who kind of don't fit the fit the bill. And they also have this idea of like, oh, like every black person or every minority person is like from, bro, I've had arguments with people about whether or not I'm oppressed. People, I've had people trying to convince me, I've had people trying to convince me I'm oppressed. And I'm like, what are you talking about? That's so nice of them. Right?

Starting point is 01:10:12 I'm like, like, what are you even talking about? Because they have all their like academic theories and whatever. And I'm like, bro, my dad is a doctor. Like, I've never wanted for, I'm like, I am privileged, right? I went to freaking Oxford. I went to boarding school. Like, I'm from a great family. My parents have been married for like 40 something years.

Starting point is 01:10:34 I'm healthy. I was born in the UK. Like, I've got so many, like, they're like, oh, but, you know, still, like, you're somehow, I'm somehow still a victim apparently of systemic. And I'm just like, bro, stop. Did you see the viral tweet? The guy was joking, but he was like, recently visited like a Portland coffee shop and they're really taking this seriously.

Starting point is 01:10:59 They have created an area, no whites allowed or whatever. And he basically was like describing segregation, but like doing it from the world perspective. You know, some universities have that now. Oh, there are real places. Yeah, there's universities that have that now that have spaces for people of color or – what do they – they have different terms for them.

Starting point is 01:11:24 But yeah, they've brought back actual segregation. Yeah. I saw a video also. I think it was like maybe a library or something. Of course, it's on a college campus. And there was a guy who was like sitting at his computer and somebody was yelling at him. I think I know the one.

Starting point is 01:11:42 Saying that they were feeling unsafe. I think I know the one. They were feeling unsafe because he was in their presence. and like again you see these videos and you're just like literally the guy two minutes ago could have been yelling and screaming and threatening people and like doing all this stuff and then all of a sudden you just see like this calm scene but if you just take it at face value and say like okay there's no uh outlier there's no you know exception to the rule it's just like some guy sitting there i know the one you mean he had the blue live sticker on his um blue blue lives matter

Starting point is 01:12:06 sticker on his laptop it was the two the two white guys yes and then there's the girls and they're like and they're just going off on going off on this and i always just think of these situations and i'm like is this because humans are bored and i'll give you uh uh context this so i've been reading a book and it describes in one section uh 1870 to 1970 and it basically makes the argument like there was so much human progress that happened in that time period because of technology inventions of the automobile electricity all this stuff uh the elevator created urban density the automobile created horizontal speed so we now can move things faster we had the steam engine we started going through all that the industrial revolution like

Starting point is 01:12:50 all these things were happening and it was just an explosion but in order to describe how great that time period was they have to explain to you what life was in the you know 1870s and before and basically the takeaway is like that shit was hard horrible yeah and some of the key details are men worked till they died there was no retirement there's no social security there's no anything like literally you worked because the day you stopped working your family stopped eating and so they worked in the fields also 75 of americans uh in 1870 were in rural areas over 70 of all workers worked in what were categorized as unpleasant jobs women inside of the household had immense responsibilities and physical labor in terms of carrying flour

Starting point is 01:13:35 and water and all these different things they had to sew their own clothes they don't do all this stuff and the homes were all unconnected they called unnetworked meaning that they had no gas electricity you know running water like any of this stuff that is a hard life that we are very fortunate today we don't have to do this there's technology that does a bunch of this our homes are all connected like all these different things the shift from unpleasant to pleasant jobs is like basically a 180 so you're saying they weren't debating about pronouns and misgender no they were out in the fucking field with the mule trying to make sure that they had food for the winter and so like you look at this and you're like yo we got it so good that people are bored and like

Starting point is 01:14:18 you want to know how i know we're bored go check every person's cell phone and see the hours spent on instagram twitter tiktok and youtube and by the way you can be learning about educational stuff or you can be doom scrolling yes and we all do both but like if you spend an hour on your phone basically just rotting your brain yeah you got an easy life yes because anyone who has a hard life doesn't have that luxury and so it's like is this the end result of of basically just being so so free so uh good in life that we debate this shit yeah we yeah we're living through an overcorrection of multiple sorts. Do you know why I talk about this stuff? Why? It's because of what you, it's literally because of what you just said, because I recognize how good we have it and how

Starting point is 01:15:08 freaking long it's taken for things to get here. And I'm like, guys, don't mess it up. Don't mess it up. The conversation we were just having about, you know, racial harmony. dude look around the world look through history people were freaking racist man like like it was horrible people used to enslave each other segregate brutalize each other call each other like just nasty stuff people used to people used to get lynched bro like it was the kkk at its peak had over four million members the kkk had members like in people in congress they had governors they had like in the kkk like the gov imagine the governor of a state being in the kk like that used to be okay. Like not even a hundred years ago. And it's fucking wild. I'm sorry. Like that

Starting point is 01:15:59 is just such a fucking insane statistic. That's what I mean. So when I hear people say like, oh, you know, racism is just as bad as it's always been. In fact, it's getting worse. I'm like, dude, what are you talking about? Like we can recognize things not being perfect and we can strive for better, right? We all have ways we want society to improve. But if you are going to discount the progress that's been made over the past century, two centuries, then it's going to lead you to this area where you lack perspective and you lack gratitude. And when you lack perspective and you lack gratitude, you problematize things, you create problems where they don't exist. And if you're not careful, you can make things worse, right? So human nature, I don't believe, has fundamentally changed over those centuries, right?

Starting point is 01:16:45 What has changed? The two advantages that we have as people who are alive in 2022, the two big advantages we have over our grandparents and great-grandparents is, number one, we have better stuff. We have more technology. We have the internet. We have the opportunity and the tools to just do cool stuff, right? We have new tools. And we have knowledge of the history. So rather than trying to reinvent the wheel all the time, we can look back and go, how do we know segregation is a bad idea?

Starting point is 01:17:15 How do we know that racial segregation is a bad idea? Right. Oh, because we can look at apartheid. You can look at Jim Crow. You can look at how this has happened in different places. You can see what it led to. You can see, man, that was like a moral deficiency. It led to this problem. It led to that. It was, you know, and it was just wrong. Right. You can look back. How do we know that slavery is wrong? because it was tried for thousands of years across different countries. And yeah, you don't even need to debate it. It's just like, okay, that was clearly wrong. And those are the only two advantages we have. Fundamentally, we have the same hardware, right? Our brains operate in the same way. We have the same bodies and the same organs. And so let's not be stupid with that technology and with that knowledge. Let's use it. Let's be like, okay, here are some things that we should repeat. These are great things we've inherited from our ancestors, and this has worked really well for society and we should maybe keep those institutions going. I mean,

Starting point is 01:18:05 a great example of this to me is like marriage, marriage and marriage in the family. It's like, okay, well, every country, every culture all across the site, really hundreds, thousands of years, they've all had this institution and brought children into the world primarily under this and it's worked well for, and places who tried something totally different, they're not round anymore or they're very small or whatever, or it led to chaos. So that's probably a good idea. I mean, that's something we should, we should keep. It doesn't mean everyone has to get married or whatever. It doesn't need to be enforced, but generally speaking, cool. Like that's a good institution. And then the stuff that's bad. Okay, cool. Like we can, we can

Starting point is 01:18:42 jettison that. Let's keep that. Let's get rid of that. And this to me is just where the proper balance between what people, what you could call conservatism, liberalism, and progressivism is, right? You conserve the things that are working well and lead to a positive functioning society and happiness. You have liberalism, which in its proper sense allows, prioritizes the rights and freedoms of the individual. You can make your choices regardless of who you are and these categories you fit into, whatever. You have the free choice to live your life as you see fit. You have the right to speak. You have the right to practice or not practice a religion. You have the right to freedom of association, so on. Right. You have your your basic fundamental rights. And then what progressivism should mean is, OK, look, there are still some things that we need to improve. There are things there are changes that we can make. Let's balance these things out and let's do this. Let's do this carefully. Right. Let's do this carefully. If you are driving a car and it's like, you know, if someone gets in a car and is asking me, is it better to accelerate or brake?

Starting point is 01:19:55 Like, well, what do you know? Is it best to turn left or right? Well, yes. So this is the thing, right? So when people go to these kind of like radical ends of, say, what people call progressivism, it's just change at all costs. Just change everything. Just flip the whole thing on. No, get rid of that.

Starting point is 01:20:13 It's like, bro, but that thing works. Like, why do you want to get rid of this stuff? It's like, no, just go. just slam your foot on the accelerator. And it's like, dude, you're, you're going to crash as a wall. Yeah. Similarly, if you just like hold down the brake, right. Just hold the brake. No, you can't change anything. Like, no, we must conserve and preserve complete status quo. It's like, all right, well, you don't move anywhere. You don't go forward. So this is actually why, you know, I think some people won't, won't like me saying this, but

Starting point is 01:20:39 this is the value of having dialogue between people of different socio-political perspectives and so on, right? Because there is value and intelligence in each one and they all check each other, right? So the natural conservative tendency is hit the brake, right? The progressive tendency is hit the accelerator. So it's actually, if you have a sensible dialogue and you bring people together, then we can have an honest and mature conversation. Yeah. People are going to have, people are going to disagree. It might get, you know, heated at times and so on. It's not going to, you're never going to have like this perfect harmony because people are different, but I think you can have a good balance where society is slowly improving. I think that's

Starting point is 01:21:27 generally what we, what we have had. I think it's still what we do have. I think we're just in a, like a messy very messy phase of it and with the introduction of smartphones and social media it's made it all far it's made it faster and it's made it more chaotic because you now have access to billions of people's thoughts and opinions and ideas whereas before that was all just in people's heads and you couldn't see it and you couldn't and then you've got the bot interference it's nuts especially on your account i i am going to nominate my account for the single worst twitter account in terms of the bot problem it's crazy i uh i've thought i haven't done it yet uh uh i did it one time like kind of half-heartedly but like i've thought every

Starting point is 01:22:08 time that i tweet i should just tag the ceo of twitter so that his notifications get as many of the bots as mine and the problem be fixed tomorrow like it's literally uh hundreds right i went and i looked the other day uh and i had blocked manually over a thousand accounts and i went and then they've been wiping them right so they're doing something it's just they're not stopping the ones from actually getting posted uh and then i blocked a bunch more and i was back up over a thousand and i was like i've probably spent hours of my life fighting hand-to-hand combat on the internet with some fucking bot farm outside the united states somewhere and there's somebody who's just running a script and they're like here you go motherfucker right like how quick can you report

Starting point is 01:22:54 and block these people yeah and i'm like i don't know but i'm gonna try because the product's unusable without it it's annoying it's also annoying because it's so easy to fix that's not a that's not a hard problem to fix anyone who has cz binance in their fucking name and isn't the verified account block them like okay i just solved 80 of the bot problem and literally i thought for 10 seconds about it right like it's so simple yeah i remember when elon brought up the idea of verification and people freaked out because they were like, oh, you're going to have to submit like your social security number. And I was like, dude, I don't think that's what he means. I think you're going a little, I understand. You don't need a social security

Starting point is 01:23:36 number to prove you're not a bot. Yeah. I don't think he wants like full on, you know, KYC. I think it's just a basic verification of humanity, which in itself could cut down that nonsense probably by 80, 90%. Well, you know, it's going to become a discriminatory because they're going to come up with a verification for like celebrities and then like the common person and uh doesn't that already exist uh well if now there's different colored check marks oh right like but this is the game it's like well why do they get the blue one fucking blue people blue people and you're like wait what is going on you know they haven't they done an experiment with that where they've just like given people like different colored stickers and so really

Starting point is 01:24:23 yeah and and they band together and start even to some degree start mistreating people who have the did you see did you see the uh wolves and i think it's yosemite uh national park no so i don't know exactly how they captured it but uh there's an image that i saw going around um and they were able to track different packs of wolves in this national park and you know if you imagine tracking a pack of wolves it's like a bunch of lines everywhere right because they're moving around and must have been for months if not years each pack has its own color okay when you zoom out look at the map it's like the blue lines are all right here the pink ones are here the red ones are here the green ones are here the yellow ones are here and basically the takeaway was like the wolves

Starting point is 01:25:11 don't fuck with each other they stay with their pack and literally there was no blue going into the red area like it's almost like gangs right like just like they knew what the rules of the road were and they stayed in their pack and my takeaway from it was like you mean to tell me that it's literally like a genetic like national uh natural thing that people tend to stay in packs the wolves do it humans do it all stuff now again that doesn't mean that you can't go to another pack doesn't mean that you can't have social mobility all these different things but like there's like a biology conversation somewhere in there that if the wolves do it and humans do it maybe it's not humans maliciously doing stuff and again there's exceptions fine but

Starting point is 01:26:01 that was more eyeopening to me than anything else that I've seen in this conversation around like, yo, you tell me the wolves do the shit that humans are being accused of. Maybe it's not a human thing. Oh dude, no, it's not at all, man. Tribalism is a biological thing and tribalism just exists. It's not good nor bad. It's just, it just exists, right? There's a positive and negative impact from it, but it's just a thing that exists. Yeah. It's a thing that exists. And again, if you if we communicate intelligently and again, I do think that to give props to most Western countries, certainly the USA, certainly the UK have made fantastic headway in this direction in moving away from overly toxic tribalism. I mean, you need tribalism because we're all members of families and communities. And then on top of that, we have we have nationalities.

Starting point is 01:26:54 People are from certain. So, you know, that's fine. People, even what people support, right? You, people have their sports teams that they support or whatever, and you can have, you know, some fun tribalism there. But as soon as you start like, oh, you beat somebody up because they wore the wrong football jersey or you, you know, you get like to levels of hooliganism or you get to, as we've discussed, you know, racism or like going, let alone going to genocides or something like, okay, like the tribalism has gone way, way, way too far. So I think the key thing is, yeah, just recognizing that that exists and then what's the best thing you can do? I often think of just going up a level, right? So if you think of how tribalism works, we're all members of multiple different tribes. But if you actually go up a level, you gain more commonality, right? So if someone is like getting – people are getting stuck in this tribalism and division over here, it's like, wait, why don't you all go up one level and you'll see what you have in common, right? And this is something that's particularly crazy when you look at certain things that have happened in history or even certain conflicts that are still going on, which are weird.

Starting point is 01:27:59 I mean, if you – okay, take the religious line. I mean, look at Northern Ireland, right, where there's that whole conflict between the Protestants and the Catholics. And I'm like, bro, you're all Christian. And you're all Irish. You're all Irish Christians. Why are you bombing each other, right? Or who – Because they're wrong.

Starting point is 01:28:18 Who – they're wrong. They have a slightly different interpretation of the Bible. Or who is most Islamic terrorism aimed at? It's aimed at other Muslims, right? And I'm like, man, that's so wild. That shows how toxically tribal people can get. Man, you look at – obviously, people always use the example of like the Holocaust. But something much more recently, I mean, 94, the Rwandan genocide.

Starting point is 01:28:43 I don't know how much listeners have looked into that. But that's such a horrible story. But it's like, man, it shows you the power of unhinged tribalism and when the media and politicians get involved in it and start stoking tensions. Like these are all Rwandans, right? You've got Tutsis. You've got Hutu. And you had about a million people killed, slaughtered, not by a government machine, by their own neighbors, primarily with machetes. This is just 1994, right?

Starting point is 01:29:15 And people kind of like gloss over this. I think oftentimes things that happen in Africa are glossed over in the West. They only kind of talk about Africa when it's convenient. But when you look at these stories, this is why looking at history is important. Like I'm not a historian, but I like to look at stories of history because it teaches you really about the human condition. And because we haven't fundamentally changed in our hardware and in our biology, it's really important to recognize that because – And this is why I think it makes people uncomfortable because if you do it honestly, you realize that you have to face your own shadow. You have to face the darkness, right?

Starting point is 01:29:51 Everyone wants to imagine, oh, if I was in Nazi Germany, I would have freed the Jews. I would have done it. The majority. Yeah. There would be people who would do it. The majority would have either been Nazis or have been sympathetic to them or have just kept their heads down. That's the truth. And no one wants to even like envision that.

Starting point is 01:30:11 How do we know that? Well, because that's what majority of people did. They fell into one of those three groups. Yes, that's just what happens. And so one reason why I'm even how I am is because I've really thought about a lot of this stuff. I've really thought about it. I've looked at the – I've read the Gulag Archipelago. I've read Ordinary Man.

Starting point is 01:30:30 I've read certain things and looked at even certain studies, the Milgram experiment, the Ash experiment, and say, okay, the dynamics when people are in groups or in tribes. like this can lead to this really loopy and even very dark and violent stuff. So even when I was in my, say in my, my twenties, I was thinking, okay, if I were ever in this kind of situation, what are my boundaries and principles and how should I, how should I behave? Because there's this group think thing that happens and there's when fear takes over and I'm just like, okay, I need to think about this. And I've spent a lot of time kind of doing that mental work of like, okay, hopefully in my lifetime, nothing that bad is ever going to happen or be coming down the pipeline. But if it does, these are the things to be aware of. And you understand

Starting point is 01:31:20 how the fear takes over and how the social pressure takes over and how, you know, the authorities, even, even just the way people defer to authority, which can, again, it's not always something that's inherently bad, right? We all need, we all need to be able to be leaders sometimes and followers sometimes. Right. And if we're being honest, even people who are leaders, you probably spend more time following than leading for the, for the most part. So it's not that deference to authority is, is a bad thing, but the authority has to be, has to be good, has to be valid, has to be legitimate. And you can't just, you know, what's that? Well, those magic words, I was just following orders, right? That, that doesn't cut it, right? There comes a time where

Starting point is 01:32:01 you have to be like, no, I'm not going to I'm not going to do this thing that completely goes against my morals or my ethics or my values just because I was told to. And that line is different for different people. But I do recommend people think about it and have one. This episode is brought to you by Sigma, the bridge between iGaming, online sports betting and emerging technology such as blockchain, NFTs, fintech, GameFi, Metaverse and AI is loud and clear. The largest global summit of its kind is heading to Malta from November 15th through the 17th. Over 1,000 exhibitors and 25,000 industry leaders will be there, including top executives from DraftKings, Bet365, crypto exchanges, betting software providers, operators, gaming affiliates, and more. Log on to AIBC.world and Sigma.world to see our upcoming global summits.

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Starting point is 01:33:45 Go check them out today. So there's people who get put in the position, right? And they can choose whether to follow either side of that line. But there's been a larger resurgence. I don't know if you can say it's large, but it's growing, of people who are starting to speak out about all kinds of stuff. Obviously, the pandemic was kind of a wake-up call for lots and lots of people. And they were like, wait, hold on a second.

Starting point is 01:34:08 This is kind of crazy stuff. One of the people, Andrew Tate, took the world by storm and then essentially got kicked off all the social media platforms. What do you think about the state of deplatforming and censorship and like how bad is it right yeah free top g man um before i answer that question it's actually been really fascinating to see that because i had him on my podcast in february 2019 um and then i i visited him and his brother in romania in 2020 and i was hanging out with him in dubai actually earlier this year so it's interesting when somebody who you know becomes this sort of like

Starting point is 01:34:49 global conversation and you're seeing like 90 of what i read about him online is wrong which is interesting because i'm like i know this guy like what like people are just saying crazy stuff so um but yeah in terms of deplatforming it's it sucks man honestly it sucks it's extraordinarily illiberal um it's actually dude i mean again i don't think people think about this stuff deeply enough they de-platformed the former president of the united states of america from multiple platforms simultaneously i don't care whether you like trump dislike trump what that is insane that should freak you out like that should freak like i don't he technically was still president when they did it he was still the the sitting president

Starting point is 01:35:46 of the united states someone's in bed twitter instagram facebook like in a coordinated you know off of a very fuzzy notion that he i mean he didn't directly he didn't call for violence he didn't actually people oh well he broke it's like you can't even like people just repeat stuff people just parrot stuff but here's here's a here's another issue that happens the sitting part by the way yeah is like when people are like oh it happened i think so we were like and it still happened he's still not allowed back on but the sitting president of the united states of america and again if they were to go and do it to joe biden yeah i would still be just as much as like hold on because it becomes a thing where who's in charge dude it's crazy like wait what yeah

Starting point is 01:36:33 dude anyone who celebrated that you're a dummy if you if you celebrated trump being deplatformed you are a fool because it goes back to the idea of uh never use a tool that you wish for your enemy to never uh to never have access to right and so like if twitter got sold and they went and they hired somebody and uh they wanted to go after all the democrats i think there'd be a lot people oh shit yeah right and so it doesn't it's not a political left or right thing to me it's just uh again there are exceptions of if you call for violence if you do certain things okay got it but it feels like uh there's this world of just like you got too much power as a user and i think that you know if you look at uh tate it's not very clear to me as to like why he got

Starting point is 01:37:28 taken off all these different do you know i mean i spoke i spoke to him the day that it happened because i had called him immediately i was like dude like what the heck just happened um this is when he you know he his youtube had his it was just his instagram and facebook okay but you know his youtube hadn't been taken down and so on and then you know that came a follow a couple days later um do you know coincidence yeah but this is this it's important for people to understand this because he did not violate he didn't post anything the violated the policies you know the policy that they banned him under was the, um, dangerous individuals or organizations. So they just, so my partner was spitting too much truth. So if you think, why does this policy

Starting point is 01:38:10 exist? This policy exists so that the Ku Klux Klan can't have an official Instagram page. This, this exists so that, um, Al Qaeda cannot be putting out recruitment videos on, on YouTube, et cetera. That's why, you know, dangerous persons and organizations. So they've essentially thrown him in that same category with the worst, like actual terrorists, actual murderers, actual genocidal maniacs, because they, and this is how they weaponize these words. The words they weaponize, some of the most dangerous words being used these days are dangerous, safety, harm, and harmful. That's how they always phrase it, right? It's always, oh, we need to protect you. we need to protect you right oh this is harmful this is misinformation this is this oh this is

Starting point is 01:38:56 harmful you made that person feel unsafe you probably saw the other day about you know the from the podcast thing when ben did you see the one with ben shapir no you didn't see you didn't see the the podcast thing in dallas no where someone's laughing yo oh my gosh oh he went to the conference this is the conference where he showed up to a conference and then they said uh people felt unsafe because we apologize for the harm his presence caused his presence just that's a powerful motherfucker sounds like five foot eight jewish man in a kappa or you know standing there after his organization spent 30 grand to rent a booth and sponsor the event dude like the whole thing is wild but this is the weaponization of language right during during the

Starting point is 01:39:44 pandemic, why were they kicking people? Oh, he's harmful, spreading harmful disinformation, misinformation. There's people who literally put out facts, right? They de-platform doctors. They de-platform scientists. Oh, harmful, misinformation. And so that sort of safety language, it's how they de-platform Trump. It's how they de-platform Tate. Prior to this, by the way, because I've been on Twitter since 2009. So I remember when this all started. Because for the first, up until about 2014, 2015, no one, no one worried about getting de-platformed. That's when they got, what was alex jones alex jones but then there was another gavin mckinnis another conservative milo yiannopoulos um yeah there were there were like a bunch of them and it was all people on

Starting point is 01:40:21 the right yep you know and they always start with the people who are more objectionable right so again people now there's these dummies celebrating andrew tate's band it's like oh so okay you considered him on okay a couple years ago they considered alex jones on the fringe and they considered um milo yiannopoulos and gavin oh they were they were on the right now you consider Andrew Tate do dummies not realize that as that closes in you are at some point are going to be standing on the edge of that island as it's crumbling all around you um you know that the YouTube video we put up of uh Andrew Tate the title was Andrew Tate is the new Alex Jones yeah because it was so obvious really an interview by the way that that was going to be the game

Starting point is 01:40:59 it's just like oh you're saying things are outside and I joke about like oh that somebody's saying too much truth right whether it's like Shapiro Tate whatever uh but you know what the most telling part of the entire andrew tate situation to me was tell me he came out the last minute the last message an hour hour and 10 minute video it came out and i said you know what i owe this guy my time he did a bunch of stuff he said when all this stuff and everything people have been asking me hey you met him what does he like all this stuff and everything right and i said the fact that somebody would ask me that tells me that you're a critical thinker right because you're like hey i see all this stuff on the internet but like what's he really like let me talk to

Starting point is 01:41:37 somebody who at least talked to him because i can't talk to him or whatever it's like okay cool but then i'd be at dinner and other people be chirping and you know saying all this crazy shit and everything and i just sit down it's a human trafficker just like you just have no clue right you have you have no clue because you're you have an opinion about somebody that you've never spoken to before so when that came out i took it and um i'm a bunch of these group chats and stuff with people who you know for generally have big audiences or influential whatever and i put it in there i said listen whether you like this person or not whatever your preconceived notion is watch this yeah see what you think if you want to watch it because you think that this

Starting point is 01:42:09 is the 21st century way of communication and this is like you know uh uh you're studying the tactics not the the content cool you'll get some value out of it but if you actually want to know more about the person watch this and i'd love to hear what you guys all think i can't tell you how many people responded to this so i don't have time to watch it yeah of course it's it's our i don't have that time. And they just didn't even look at it. But then they kept, I saw them, they were still sharing opinions about it and everything. And I said, look, I don't expect people to defend somebody they don't know. I don't also expect people to go back to kind of the beginning of our conversation, have some crazy opinion either way or whatever. But if you do have an opinion,

Starting point is 01:42:49 you owe yourself. Be informed. Yeah. Go get the information. And another thing is, you know, people need to stop this thing of conflating, defending, you know, like, I like to say, I'll, I'll, I don't, I'll, I will defend Andrew Tate himself, but not that he needs me to, he can defend himself. Um, but you can defend it's defend principles. There are principles. If you are someone with principles and values and beliefs, if you are, if you believe in the concept of freedom of speech, right? Not just on a legal level, not just on this narrow legal level, but it's actually a cultural issue too. Freedom of speech is not supposed to just be a legal concept. It's also a social and cultural concept, right? You could, if you have, if, if you have

Starting point is 01:43:31 freedom of speech, so-called protected under the law, but like societally and societally and culturally, it's absolutely not tolerated. Then you don't really have it. If people are terrified to speak and say basic things, then you're not supporting freedom of speech. So anyone who I, whether I, I doesn't, my personal feelings about the person or what they're saying, whether I agree with them politically or I don't care. I will defend the principle of someone having a right to voice what they want to voice for a huge number of reasons. Another thing that's also been getting lost in our society, and maybe, I don't know. I don't know if this is linked to the loss of religion because it can, you know, religion can also overly be used to kind of push the opposite,

Starting point is 01:44:17 it, but forgiveness and salvation, right? This is one of the, I don't think like, yes, social media, private company, you can do whatever you want. Like, bro, I'm largely libertarian. Like I'm not even arguing that, but just because you can do something doesn't mean you should, this cuts in all directions. And also you need to give people a pathway to people change. You need to give people a pathway to forgiveness and salvation and understanding and so on. If you just, I mean, even the proper legal system understands this, right? There are people who have killed people who are walking free. There's people who have raped, robbed, burgled people who are walking free. They served their time. They spent 25 years

Starting point is 01:45:03 in prison they they did their whole sentence fingers crossed they actually reformed and they changed and now they're an integrated productive member of society again you don't condemn the person forever oh you stole something when you were 17 we're gonna lock you up forever in jail and we're gonna throw away the key oh you had if you tweet if you tweet bad things you don't get a comeback i don't think i don't permanent bans shouldn't exist i know that social media is not everything, but bro, like majority of the world is on social media. Billions of people use it. That's where the conversations happen. So the idea that you said something in 2014, which Twitter felt cross line. And so never again, can you use that? That is insane to me, bro.

Starting point is 01:45:46 That's crazy. Even if you did actually cross line, how about, okay. One year ban, you know, one year ban after that, you know, you learn, you can, you can come back and play nice. But the idea that you just kick people off forever especially to do it so arbitrarily to me is i think it sets a i think it sends a really bad message and i think also and this has been studied i know that the guys at minds.com studied this um they're great it radicalizes people more of course it radicalizes people more how do you get someone to change their mind you have to talk to them like i understand trust me i understand that having conversations with certain people is not fun and it's not right like there's people out there who are just so far gone i'm like dude i don't want

Starting point is 01:46:26 I don't want to sit down and really have a conversation with like an actual white supremacist or something, right? But that's the only way to get them to change their views. You have to hear them out. You have to rebut them. You have to talk. I believe that good ideas ultimately win. If you don't censor, I do believe the good ideas generally will float to the top.

Starting point is 01:46:48 Not all the time, not 100%. But you let people voice their stuff. You let them have their concerns. You can correct them on this. You can debate this. Just censoring that person and pushing them out to the corner and then who do they go hang with and who are they conversing with, right? They're just with the other band people, right? That's one of the problems you've had with some of the alternative social media platforms, especially something like Gab, right?

Starting point is 01:47:10 Because it's like become the home of everyone who got kicked off of everything else now goes to this one platform and it's like it's not moderated at all. It's just like, okay, well, you can kind of just say whatever on there and people are going to like back you up and reinforce that. And so you believe it's even more and more true. And it increases the polarization. It's not helping. I think there's this natural tendency as human beings when we see or we hear something we don't like. Like I understand censorship because it's not hard to understand. If someone says something that offends you or you don't like or you have a visceral reaction to, the natural inclination is to want to shut that person up.

Starting point is 01:47:49 Right? you, you, you, you, that's the, that's the first urge. That's like the biological urge is shut this person up, get them out of my sight. I don't, I don't, I don't even want to talk to them. I don't want, in fact, they shouldn't even be allowed to say what they're saying. I get where that tendency comes from, but we have to be able to fight it because ultimately in this country, you've got about 340 million people in this world. We've got about 8 billion people. No two people are the same. There's no two people on this planet who agree on absolutely everything. It doesn't exist. We're all different. We have our different social views, cultural views, personalities, religious views,

Starting point is 01:48:25 political, like we're, we're just, we're different, right? It's a good thing. Yes. And it's a good thing and it's, and it's fine. And we need to be able to coexist, right? So if I look at a country like the USA, I talk about the US a lot. I'm here right now. But also it is, the USA truly is a leader. I don't know if Americans always understand just how much, when people call the USA the leader of the free world. That's not just a cute name. That's actually what it is, right? Other countries across Europe, Australia, Canada, the UK, they take cues from the USA. Even non-Western countries take cues from the USA. So what happens in the USA does matter, right? Whether it's the music that becomes popular here becomes popular in other countries. The ideas that become popular here

Starting point is 01:49:09 often become popular in other places. And so that's why, because some Americans don't go, oh, like, you know, mind your own business. Why are you talking about the US? And it's like, dude, because it impacts everyone. It impacts everyone. And you've got such a big population. And, oh man, sorry, I'm losing my, what was the initial point I was gonna make? Well, yes, people need to be able to coexist, right?

Starting point is 01:49:31 If you're gonna have all that diversity in every true sense of the word, then you need a way of having things, you need not just, you need a legal structure, obviously. But also culture changes and things that were not previously acceptable become acceptable yes and in reverse so there's a lot of people who uh the mob came for because of things they said in 2000 and uh i always remind folks you want to know the single best way

Starting point is 01:49:59 uh that i found especially men um but but uh to figure out how much culture has changed go on youtube and search the man show jimmy kimmel and adam kroll they had a show comedy central this show literally called the man show it was for men yeah it had women in like bikinis jumping on trampolines they were drinking beer and doing dude shit yeah right i told somebody that this show existed like that shit never was on television i said it was on a fucking regular cable like it wasn't a pay-per-view what you know it was like literally if you just like had the cable at the house you could get the show and they were like no way so we went the first the very first episode from this show is on uh youtube you will watch five minutes of this

Starting point is 01:50:57 how did they ever air it you're literally like there's no like what were they thinking yeah but it's because it was a different time yeah and so obviously what was okay then is now viewed as not okay okay but the reverse happens there's things that you couldn't say three years ago that now you can say and so if somebody was punished or kicked off or whatever how do you accommodate or account for what if things change and now what they're saying is like an accepted thing and zero hedge was uh was probably the example where we saw this most they were the first to talk about the lab leak kicked off immediately the second they got kicked off i was like somebody's gonna have to find out some more information on this now we have

Starting point is 01:51:41 politicians i i would argue that actually there's the most common theory now a number of politicians who think it's the most likely it's the most likely theory and so again they got reinstated and all this stuff but like imagine if they've been kicked off of any platform and not allowed back it was a permanent ban and then all of a sudden three years later we're like oh yeah everyone thinks this yeah how do you bring them back yeah yeah i agree man that's the that's the salvation component i think a big part of it also is just maturity i think a lot about like how mature we are as a society and i think that we've been some of this stems from the comfort you alluded to earlier. But we've had a lot of infantilization of adults over the past few

Starting point is 01:52:28 decades to a level that is where people cannot handle and regulate their own emotions. I call it emotional incontinence. And we essentially are catering to the most neurotic, most scaredy cat, most easily offended, most easily triggered people. It's like a race to the bottom. And instead of trying to encourage people to become more resilient and strong mentally, physically, and emotionally, we're trying to nerf the whole world, right? So instead of telling the person who wants to cry because someone called them not their preferred pronoun. Instead of telling that person like, look, man, be strong. It's not, it's not, it's not the end of the world, right? People talk like people generally refer to people based on the biological gender that they think they are.

Starting point is 01:53:32 Like, bro, like get over it. Just get over it. Instead, it's like, oh no, we need to get 99.9% of people who never had any issue ever with how pronouns are used now you all need we need to change the entire english language and your understanding of it to cater to this not even 0.1 percent of people right like this one guy on twitter got offended so we all need to cater to by the way we had the same thing during the pandemic right instead of just going okay look there's a certain segment of the population that's particularly vulnerable to this disease and there should be certain accommodations and perhaps policies and things put in place for them instead it's like nope we need to treat everyone the same right we because this there's this you

Starting point is 01:54:20 know one percent of people 100 of you need to completely sideline your entire lives for two years because of this thing by the way can you imagine how offended people would have been if they said old people and unhealthy people and you were anything below the age of 60 and you were do you know do you know who wouldn't have been offended old people of course isn't that funny of course the people who are most vulnerable i remember early i remember early on and when i was in the old people like yo it was save me i remember i remember whenever uh you know whatever i was like gonna going around maskless like the rebel i am like the other people i see not wearing masks were almost always over 60 of course it was hilarious like i'd be in the supermarket you know

Starting point is 01:55:06 All the, everyone in like from teenagers to 40s are, you know, all wearing their mask. And then I'm just seeing like some old guy or some old woman just going around. And I'm like, they don't care. Like no one even, like, was there ever a poll done on elderly people asking if they even, all this was done supposedly in their name. It's like, do they even want that? Is that even, like, why can't they take care of themselves? But again, it's this infantilization and that, cause that's how you treat children.

Starting point is 01:55:33 You don't let children make all their own choices. You don't even get to choose what you eat for breakfast. Maybe we'll have two cereals and you can pick one, right? But that's how they're treating adults now, right? There's this loss of idea of adults are mature and therefore you can give them a level of autonomy and liberty and freedom and ability to make their own choices and so on. it's like, no, we need to take that away and be more authoritarian because we can't trust the people to make their own decisions. And I think that people need to stop playing into that. And I think that when you encourage this censorship or safe spaces or deplatforming everyone you

Starting point is 01:56:16 disagree with or whatever, and you're discouraging conversation and debate and discourse, then it it furthers the problem and you're appeasing again you're appeasing the weakest links of course you're appeasing the weakest links and we've never done that before we've gone from survival of the fittest to tyranny of the weakest speaking of survival of the fittest what's up with the secretary of state in the uk uh or secretary of health uh oh the new one the new one uh she doesn't look healthy uh yeah and uh then i saw a lineup of a bunch of uh secretary of health across all these countries and a lot of them don't look very healthy now i don't think that arnold schwarzenegger is the expectation right of like somebody who's like a bodybuilder or like

Starting point is 01:57:00 super super fit because they do nothing but work out all day but there is some irony to the fact that uh a number of people who supposedly are in charge of the health of tens of millions hundreds of millions of people may not actually be healthy themselves no we don't live in serious countries bro like it is kind of like a simpsons episode right like yo we gonna have a secretary of health let's make them really not healthy that'd be funny it's it's weird man it's weird i often it's it's strange because it's it's across the world i mean do you remember the old one from belgium yes like i and this isn't me trying to be mean to people but if you are here here's a controversial opinion i think that if you are a personal trainer or a health secretary or a health

Starting point is 01:57:56 sick i think you should be in shape like i mean i don't think that's too much to ask for i feel the same when i say like an obese personal trainer and i'm like um like practice what you preach like If I'm going to hire a financial advisor and they are like broken massively in debt. See, when you say it this way, people are like, oh, this is ridiculous. Warren Buffett, who's like somehow has escaped all of the mob, whatever. One of his like famous quotes is Wall Street is the only place where millionaires ride in nice cars to go get advice from people who rode the subway. Right. Like basically the rich people are getting advice from people who may not be rich.

Starting point is 01:58:42 And again, I don't think that – take money as an example. To be a financial advisor, you have to be rich and – Like ultra rich. Yeah, like richer than your clients. But like it goes back to like maybe you just need to have good financial habits. And guess what? If you have good financial habits, you will eventually build some level of wealth. Yes, you shouldn't be ultra broken in debt.

Starting point is 01:59:01 Same thing with fitness. You don't have to be the bodybuilder. You don't have to be an ultra marathon runner. but like be generally eating healthy be generally taking care of yourself uh in whatever way like if someone if a health minister whatever you want to call them right was like you know what i go for a 30 minute walk every day i eat healthy and uh generally feel good and uh and all that great like that's what works for that person they seem to care it is they're like putting things into practice and by the way that's gonna be the message it's also just modeling you know it's

Starting point is 01:59:32 role modeling, man. I mean, bro, I've, I've written two fitness books. If like, just that alone means I can't be out of shape. Like, like even from my own perspective, if I'm ever like, I'm like, bro, I literally wrote fitness, but like, I tell people about fitness. I cannot let myself go. Right. Like, that's embarrassing, dude. It's like, bro, like you're not even like, why don't you read your own book and take it? It's just like, it's such a, it's such a basic thing but people on the internet also live uh you you grow accustomed to the trolls so like what like before you tweet something you like pretty much know like oh here's what the trolls will say or like hey let me say it in a way that takes away their like argument or whatever i think that

Starting point is 02:00:11 those same people in the real world like you know right you're like if i get out of shape some troll will be like dude read your own book right like so like there's this like conditioning that happens where you're constantly always just like all right i have that troll in my own head like that's why That's why you're good at what you do, though, is because you're like, oh, I fucking know what you trolls – I got your argument already. I'll hold myself accountable before anybody else does. But, man, politics is so weird, though, in that regard because I don't – I don't know. Like I flip-flop between thinking the whole thing is just kind of a game or an illusion or like it's real. I don't know. But I believe I feel like any every American I know, all of my American acquaintances or friends, I believe, would be a better president than the current one.

Starting point is 02:00:58 All of them. I think you'd be a better president than Joe. But I think everyone, your staff, I think. So I'm always how even when you look at like the mayor level or, you know, I think Florida, Florida, well, we're in Miami and Florida both have, you know, good mayors and governors, I believe. But like around the country, I just see some of the mayors and some of the they're so goofy. I'm just like, how is this? How did this person become the leader? Because I'll go to the city or whatever. And I'm like, bro, like you, you, you, you like any of you could do this better. Have you seen there's one race specifically? I think it's in Pennsylvania or say it's in Congress. maybe they got, uh, two guys and I pay so little attention to this that I'm definitely afraid of getting something wrong. Uh, but I think it's this guy, John, uh, Fetterman and Dr. Oz. And

Starting point is 02:01:52 the only reason why, uh, I know those two guys are running against each other is because somebody took a video of Dr. Oz, like yelling and screaming, whatever about the other guy. And John Fetterman guy yelling, screaming about him. And they put it like back to back and they are like dude what the fuck is going on here and it's just like man those are the two choices that some group of people have it's and like i don't know what their policies are i don't know like anything right but it wasn't exactly like a video that made me be like you know what i need to wake up and be better yeah and i think that's part of this whole like role model thing is i think again uh people will debate presidents if you start at the top used to be aspirational in the sense of

Starting point is 02:02:38 people wanted that job yes people felt like you had to be a good citizen moral like all these things to get that job and the president made the nation want to be better yes and the way that the nation wants to be better is the individual feels like that like well that sounds a lot like fucking leadership but put that aside i feel like there are very few people in the world today that are in traditional positions of power influence that have that impact i agree now it's people on the internet with like a fucking cell phone who like are doing selfie videos and so to me like that's a pretty interesting dynamic where we shifted from like all this centralized control and power and influence all stuff and like those that's what the aspirational

Starting point is 02:03:24 role model you know uh type relationship was now people are running to like this other thing yeah and they're still getting it like i don't know jocko wilnick verse like the president of the united states like well he's probably more actionable for the everyday person in terms of like you know wake up take responsibility you know do whatever i don't think very many presidents were like make your bed but like that's still a pretty big shift to me yeah and it feels like we just like oh yeah yes these people are important now and we just don't even worry at all about uh uh the fact that the people in power aren't yeah and that extends to traditional celebrities as well and i think this is i think long term this is actually good okay i i think for

Starting point is 02:04:08 some people regardless of what people say most people are not huge fans of change um regardless of what they think like most people don't actually love having drastic changes and we're living through a totally unique period in human history right now. And I think this is part of why it feels so it's why we're having this conversation. It's why stuff feels so chaotic and confusing and deranging and destructive because there's this weird reordering that is going on. There are institutions and positions and things that have existed forever and they're losing the power and centralization that they had. You see this in the media. You've just talked about it in politics, even in celebrity culture or who's deemed an influencer, right? Before you

Starting point is 02:04:59 had to go through the proper channels, there were always gatekeepers, whether you're a musician, you're an actor, you're a comedian, you're this, you had to go through very certain things, right? To be a celebrity, even 40 years ago, you know, there were not like independent musicians, celebrities, or of course there were no YouTubers or podcasters. It was like, okay, You've got news anchors and you've got, you know, the people in the political levels and you've got the Hollywood celebrities and you've got this and that. And if you talk to the younger generation, already the shift has happened because they know YouTubers and TikTokers and Instagrammers and actually recognize them more than they recognize what we consider traditional celebrities. A hundred percent. Right. And also they aspire more to that.

Starting point is 02:05:41 There aren't that many young people you'll talk to and be like, oh, I want to be an actor. I want to be a YouTuber. I want to be, you know, I want to be an influencer. Now, some people might not like that because they might think it's weird and those aren't real jobs or whatever. But my point is that there's this creative destruction which is happening. I actually think a lot of it started. I think the music industry was one of the first things that got massively disrupted by the internet and by social media and so on. 50 Cent broke the music business.

Starting point is 02:06:08 50 Cent. Everyone forgets that. 50 Cent broke the mixtape strategy. and he also had a website and he was leaking his own music on his own website. He was reading the comments and then he was basically going back

Starting point is 02:06:20 and saying, okay, let's not release that one. It's not, you know, the audience doesn't like it. Let's do something else or whatever. But like that eventually became what music did and he was one of the first people

Starting point is 02:06:28 to realize it. And it's all because Columbia Records dropped him the night that he got shot. Yep. And so this has happened. We see it happen with, you know, digital photography, with film industry.

Starting point is 02:06:38 Now you've got, you know, dude, Blockbuster could have bought Netflix when it was cheap, right? I mean, Blockbuster doesn't exist anymore. So just in our own, I mean, if you just look in our own relatively short lifetimes, the shifts we've had are insane, absolutely insane. And so, I mean, even in just in the last 10 years. So while I have many concerns and we all have concerns and we're worried about this and

Starting point is 02:07:05 that, even with stuff like the de-platforming, right? I think a solution will be worked out long-term. Like right now it sucks. Right now it's like, dude, like what's going on? Why are they doing this? Why don't they know how to moderate properly? I think part of why they don't – sure, they have their political biases, right? And there can be some malice involved.

Starting point is 02:07:22 But also it's like this is new. This is a new problem. I don't think that when Jack Dorsey made Twitter or when Mark Zuckerberg made – I don't think they had a clue they were going to be as big as they are. There is no way on earth Mark Zuckerberg thought, oh, three billion people are going to be – there's over three billion. No, dude, he was like hot or not. Half the world's population uses your product?

Starting point is 02:07:47 That's insane. And they're all talking. They're talking. Like, sure, there's moderation issues. But that's not easy. That's not an easy task to just be like, okay, like this is exactly the way you do it. You're going to have new things popping up. MySpace was the big thing when I was starting out in music.

Starting point is 02:08:04 Like new things are going to come in. This is going to come in. That's going to become bigger. That's going to become smaller. And I think one thing that's great is that we are having this actual increased democratization. Did I say the word right? Where anybody, you, I, anybody out there, we can build – you can build your own platform. You can become a well-known person or celebrity in your own right.

Starting point is 02:08:29 We're getting all these – instead of just having a handful of Hollywood celebrities or a handful of actors or athletes or whatever, it's like, yeah, you still got that. But now you've just got – there's like millions of micro-influencers and micro-celebrities and people are finding that – I think overall that's really good. It's creating new jobs, new creative outlets, new ways of doing things. I'll tell you something that I think is going to be massively disrupted by this and I don't think that the legacy version is prepared and I can't wait for this to happen actually. This is an area where I'm a progressive. Education. education and higher education we're still running off the fumes of this centuries old academic model both in schools and at universities and as we're seeing as the cost of university

Starting point is 02:09:22 continues to increase while the value of a degree continues to decrease that's not sustainable you can't keep having the value of a degree staying the same or decreasing as the financial cost goes up and up and up and up every year, as well as you're having this whole digital revolution going on. It's going to move. It has to change. It has to shift, just like the music industry was forced through this change, just like the film industry was forced through this change, just like other things are happening, right? We're, we're, we're Bitcoin guys, right? The financial industry is going to, is being disrupted and is going through this change. It's going to happen with education and that will be, and that will be good. The one thing that the legacy still has is what I would

Starting point is 02:10:09 call, it's funny me saying this as an Oxford graduate, um, perceived legitimacy, right? So the average person, and lots of this is an overhang from older generations, so many people still think have this mentality of oh you know you have to go to college even employers have this so many people will say oh well you have to go to college because employers have say you need a degree to get it's like that's going to change it's already changing with certain companies most companies driven by younger people don't care about your degree they care about what you can do and your personality and so on so that whole i think in the next decade or two the whole education system especially in higher education is going to be

Starting point is 02:10:50 much more fragmented and decentralized. The thing that needs to be worked out online, I believe, and this will take time, is the accreditation. The accreditation and then with that, the perceived legitimacy that comes with it. So as someone who went to Oxford University, even though like a day-to-day thing, I don't use my degree for anything that I do. But just the fact, if I ever wanted to go back into the traditional world of work, which I don't. The fact I have an Oxford University degree, on a global level, that is recognized as, oh, wow, this guy is smart. There's the prestige with it. And that's cool. That's cool. But, and I will say this myself, the thing really should be like, well, what are your capabilities? What can you done? What have you

Starting point is 02:11:40 done? Right? It's not having an Oxford degree that makes me smart or makes me capable or makes me competent or anything. It's, it's, it's who I am and the way my brain works and the way that I operate. Um, so yeah, it's cool to have that box ticked, but I think as time goes on with it, I think it'll take a couple of generations for this shift to happen and for there maybe to be online equivalents in terms of perceived legitimacy as the Oxford's and the Harvard's and the Cambridge's and the Yale's and so on. That'll take some time because these institutions are old. I mean, Oxford is, Oxford is about, I want to say about 600 years older than the USA. My college was founded in the 1100s. Yeah. Right. That is crazy. It was founded in the 1100s. Right.

Starting point is 02:12:29 And so, you know, you've got people from, you know, CS Lewis to JR, Tolkien to all these prime ministers and so on who, who went through those halls. So I don't think that's going to completely go away but i think that the i think that you know when it comes to university stem stem stem is going to be there and it's going to stay in certain universities and stay but there's so much that's ripe for not just disruption but i'd say destruction i think there's a lot of nonsense out there that is you know just nonsense degrees yeah nonsense degrees at nonsense universities that are not helping anyone they're kind of glorified ponzi schemes as far as I'm aware, because the only thing you can use to you, the only way you can make money

Starting point is 02:13:11 with them is to either get a fake job or become someone who then goes back into academia and teaches everyone about, you know, lesbian dance theory. You know, they're not real degrees. They don't help anyone. They don't do anything of value to society. So I think those are going to, those are going to naturally go, you know, you let the free market happen. Yeah. And you know, the most dangerous person in america is oh it's along these lines of disruption so it's not education but it's it's media okay joe rogan rogan yeah the reason being not for what most people think of the audience size yes that is important but because he's willing to have the conversations yeah that nowhere else basically will with that size of audience but do you want to know what

Starting point is 02:13:54 my prediction is for somebody who will become one of the most dangerous people in america andrew schultz interesting because one he's got uh the protection of being a comedian there's a lot of say things in society that many other people cannot say uh second is his weapon of choice is his mind he's willing to go direct to the people and it's the number one thing that scares the shit out of the centralized institutions yeah so if you're sitting there and you know for those that don't know he uh he sold one special sold a second one they wanted to edit out some jokes he said now i'll buy it back from you and i'll just go direct and i'll set up a website the andrewschultz.com and i'll sell directly to

Starting point is 02:14:42 the people and he claims that he made more than five times more money than if he'd done it with a streamer i believe that if you're sitting there and you're a streamer you have to be absolutely shaking in fear that he just basically red pilled a bunch of these comedians that say why would i come to you why don't i just go direct yeah and then i have the contact information of the audience i can remarket to them i could do all these things i could sell them tickets i can do like like i just cut you out of the process and now me and my people we communicate directly yeah that's like the new danger in society is these people who are willing to think differently and can disrupt these institutions these uh mechanisms because it's not about the first person who does

Starting point is 02:15:34 it because technically even schultz wasn't the first one to do it right there other other people had done it before but the people who popularize the strategy everyone who follows and so when you think of things like you know youtube or whatever it's like there was one person who was the first actor who was like well i'm not gonna act in a movie i'm gonna act on the internet and another than another and then mr beast comes along and now people are like yo mr beast is bigger than the movie studios and there's a bunch of young kids who are like i won't be the next mr beast in my own you know whatever and so it's like to the movie industry the biggest threat is actually mr beast yeah he got more views than squid games got on netflix good and so you're sitting at the

Starting point is 02:16:15 oh shit yep that one video is not the threat it's that he just red pilled an entire generation of kids you don't have to go do the movie yeah i love it do you do you know who worked this out early who rappers independent rappers explain like independent rappers back in the 90s who would just hustle their music independently right whether you're talking about too short or ludicrous before the record deal or you know later 50 cent with the mixtape hustle a lot of the guys in the south a lot of the guys from like houston um some of the berry rappers there was just this thing you know even jay how jay-z even started right like print up your own record market it and sell it yourself and i mean that's that's where i took my inspiration from i mean i don't know how much

Starting point is 02:17:04 you know about my, my story of how I like built up my music audience in the UK. Yeah. On the streets. Well, the whole UK, the whole UK. So when I was at Oxford, I started rapping when I was in my first year of university. Um, I released my first album when I was 19 in my, in my second year, it was an album called commercial underground. And the first ever run I did, I just did, I did a run of 50 CDs to begin with. And I just sold those to friends and family boom in a week, they were all sold. I went back, took that money, cool, printed 250. Similar word was getting around, primarily sorted around people in my university. And then boom, I took that money and printed a thousand. And at this point I'd exhausted my, yeah, people I knew. And I'd bought

Starting point is 02:17:47 CDs off people in the street before. Like if I'm walking around in London or central London, you know, I'd meet guys and London rappers and I'd buy CDs off of them. I knew about the mixtape hustle that was going on in the USA and so on. And I bought mixtapes in the USA when I traveled here. Um, I was like, ah, that's what I'll do. So I remember I'm in the first day ever. I went, you know, I went out on the street. I think I just had like six CDs with me or something. And I was like, okay, let me just try this out. And I think it took like half an hour before I even approached anybody. Cause I'm like, Whoa, this is people see me now. And they're like, oh wow. Zuby's so extroverted and confident. But it's like, man, like that's cause I've had

Starting point is 02:18:21 hundreds and thousands of conversations. And, but you know, I remember I think the third person I spoke to bought, bought my album for like five pounds. And I was like, Oh wow. What's that set up for life? I was like, wow, I sold one. That means I can sell another, you know, within a couple hours, within like two hours, you know, I sold all the CDs. I came back, I came back the next day, you know, I brought 10 CDs with me. Boom. I sold 10 CDs. I made 50 pounds. I was like, okay, this is what I can do. And then over time I started doing that all over the country, right? I would travel all the way to Scotland. I'd go to Wales. I went to the Isle of Wight. I'm going to East Anglia, all over the UK, every city. And I was just selling my CDs. I've sold, I sold over

Starting point is 02:18:55 30,000 albums hand to hand. Jesus. Out of my backpack. Just me. Hand to hand. Do you know how many people you have to talk to to sell 30,000 CDs? Like, dude, that's what I did. People aren't buying 10,000 at a time. No. So that was my, bro, I learned, I learned to speak French. I learned to speak Spanish because I was, because in the UK you get people from all over Europe. So I was like, man, I keep bumping into French people and I'm sure I like taught myself French. I was like there, I'd have days where I'm just speaking French all day, selling my CDs to all these French kids in Oxford or in Canterbury or whatever. And then, um, in 2014, uh, with my, with my friend shout out, who's also an independent rapper, we started a, what was called the blue and purple

Starting point is 02:19:33 store. So it was a pop-up shop. So you, you know, on shopping malls, sometimes if you're walking through, they've got the little kiosks and stores and independent retailers selling their stuff. So we started doing that. We opened the first one at the white lease shopping center in London, and we were selling our CDs and also our t-shirts and hats. We didn't have that much merch at the time um and that went well and then we opened one in like west key and south and we started doing pop-up shops so rather than just being on the street all the time yep we moved indoors crappy british weather too so we were protected from the elements uh in fact when it started raining it was good because everyone would come into the mall so we'd be there we

Starting point is 02:20:06 started selling our hoodies our t-shirts i used to have my own brand of headphones and that became the bread and bread and butter for me from 2014 to 2018 uh or even early 2019 the majority of my income was coming through doing those pop-up shops interesting so one thing that a lot what what's weird with my career trajectory is over probably 99 of people who know me discovered me since 2019 but i released my first album in 2006 so i've been going for a long long time so by it's funny now people see me doing certain things or whatever like oh this guy you know came out of nowhere ever over. And I'm like, dude, like I've been grinding. Yeah. Like half my life. Like I've been, you know, I put out my first album 19. I'm like, bro, like I'm, man, I'm 36 now. I'm just

Starting point is 02:20:53 like, dude, like it doesn't even seem that long, but I've just been out there grinding. And with that has come, oh, thankfully one thing people often say, my man, Zuby, like you've got away with words. You're so good at talking to people. And so I'm like, bro, I've spoken to more people than anybody or when people are like oh how do you deal with uh how do you deal with people saying mean things on the internet how do you deal with it i'm like dude i used to sell my cds on the street you ever heard somebody say something mean to you in person for a decade i would just be out there in different cities like literally i just get in my van i just go travel to manchester for stay in a crappy hotel for a week and just go and every day i'm just out there whatever the weather

Starting point is 02:21:34 talking to people, getting ignored, getting love, getting people hating on me, getting this, getting that, just, so I've already experienced like in person, every type of, whether it from, from love and praise to complete misunderstanding, to being ignored, to be, it's also why I have so much like time and love and support and gratitude for where things are now, because yeah, I'm still on my pathway but it always blows my mind if i go to an event especially if i'm in the states because i'm not even from here right my mind is blown if i'm walking around miami and someone's like oh hey zuby like over here i'm like dude that's crazy like i'm an independent rapper from england i'm from another country i'm from a whole other country and i don't have any machine behind

Starting point is 02:22:20 me yeah i don't have so i don't have a team i don't have an agent i don't have a manager i never had loads of money put into me or whatever and i'm like oh wow like i'm i'm in the white house oh i'm talking joe rogan wants to talk to me oh i'm hanging with tucker carlson oh i'm here with i'm here with pump like i'm doing this i'm doing that i'm being asked to speak at you know uh in october i'm going to i'm going to australia i've been invited to speak at some big events in australia i'm like whoa and i'm going there and people are like yeah i can't wait for you to come and i'm like yo that's wild it's on the other side of the world yeah i'm like that's nuts like Yeah. I mean, I take off on Monday, land on Wednesday. That's how far away it is.

Starting point is 02:23:00 And I'm just like, man. So I just feel such an extreme gratitude for every person. I mean, I did an event. I did a bunch of events last month. I spoke at the Young Americans for Liberty National Student Conference, the Young Americas Foundation, National Conservatives Student conference uh freedom fest in las vegas and so on and in all these events i don't know lord knows how many selfies i took and you know just talking to everyone who wanted and even sometimes with the organizers because they always want to you know as a speaker they always want to make sure that you're like okay and people aren't bothering you and i'm like it's fine it's fine they're like yo like you don't have to take all these and i'm like i will take every photo everyone wants like

Starting point is 02:23:43 I worked my butt off for this to have. Like the fact that these people even know who I am, let alone love what I'm doing and have taken some inspiration. If it means I'm standing here cheesing for two hours, as long as I don't have like something else to rush off to, I will do it. You know, I do meetups in different cities. Like I'll go, I'll just hang with people. And I would like to do that as long as it is physically possible to do, no matter how big or famous or whatever I become in the future, to me, it's always, from the beginning, it's always been about people. It's always been about wanting to help motivate, inspire people in different ways. I don't view myself as like, oh, this is another thing that would that change

Starting point is 02:24:28 in how celebrity works now, right? Because before it was kind of like you're cultivated to be a celebrity and then you're put in this place where you're, that's why so many of them are so out of touch right so they've kind of been on this weird pedestal stars who could tweet and be like i'm gonna be at the you know whatever location and no one shows up and if you tweet and you're like i'll be here a thousand people show up it's like who's famous yeah but but they wouldn't even do that because they they beneath so yeah so many of them they're viewed in this different echelon almost like you're not really a human and i think what's really cool about the kind of thing that we do and how we've grown with organically with our social media and everything is um number

Starting point is 02:25:08 one you've been on that whole journey so you keep a level of yeah we're both confident people but you're humble you're humble i'm not i'm not like here like oh i'm i'm this super celebrity guy and y'all are below me or something it's like no like i'm me because like because of you you guys support me and so that's why i'm even able to to do this stuff um and it's just i think it's way more relatable it's way more real it allows you to be authentic and it also means that the people who know you generally, yeah, of course we have our haters or whatever, but the people who know you, they don't just know you because you're on TV all the time or, Oh, you're just that famous actor or whatever. They know you because they like what you do. Of course. And that is, that's

Starting point is 02:25:55 awesome. But it also is, um, uh, is real impact. I think a lot about like, um, in the world, there's a lot of people who say i i do x and you're like cool what like what what is the impact of it and sometimes they just don't know right they just they don't get it but then there's a lot of people who are like uh um we reach x number of people and you're like cool but i think like paying attention right and um uh mr beast manager uh reed uh he did a uh interview with um colin and samir i don't know if you've seen these guys they they do uh interviews with uh people like the youtube ecosystem and uh i was listening to somebody sent it to me and he said something that was just fascinating he goes if you watch three videos of somebody on tiktok you probably

Starting point is 02:26:44 don't even know who they are what their name is whatever if you watch three youtube videos of somebody you definitely know what their name is right and it's just a difference of the audience relationship with the the personal stuff but then you move into longer stuff if somebody is still listening to this right now they've been listening for you know two hours and 20 minutes or whatever right like damn they they definitely know what your name is right um and then you move it into the physical world and then you get even to like uh uh shulton is uh especially he's got a joke he's like man i'm judging all presidents now whether they can move merch right you can move merch yeah people like you right so like you kind of like there's all these like stages to it but

Starting point is 02:27:26 what you realize is it comes back to like why do anybody care it's because there's somebody there's some impact that happened right there's some like real connection to it and so i even think for myself like there's certain people who if uh if they came to miami i'd be like fuck other people show up and i'd be like you know i would pay money to go there sit and for two hours right uh uh consume everything that they're saying all this stuff because i i find it fascinating or it has some impact or whatever that's true of every single person in the world the difference though is the authenticity this gets to the whole like movie star versus people on the internet nobody thinks that the movie star is authentic except for you see some of the movie stars now

Starting point is 02:28:11 using social media to become authentic like that's pretty much it right and this is also how you can now what's also funny with it is you can also tell who's an asshole now right i'm sure there are celebrities out there who maybe you had a certain view on, and then actually you see how they are on social media, how they talk to other people and how they treat people. I'm like, man, this guy's, this guy's not cool. Yeah. Fucking loser. You know? And I think, I think that's dope. Um, some people might think some people don't like the sort of loss of the mystique or they don't like the fact that, oh, you know, they learned that their favorite author or actor is actually not very nice. Um, but to me, it's cool. I think that the truth is whether or not you like

Starting point is 02:28:52 the truth the truth is good to have out there and um i see you eyeing up that book this book it's the last thing i want to talk about the candy calamity which is a children's book yeah that you wrote and you published with brave books and it's got amazing graphics all this stuff in it why did you write a children's book because it fits into a lot of what we talked about today It does. It does. So I have a simple heuristic to decide whether or not I want to do something. And it's because I'm very clear on my mission and I have been for over 15 years. And my mission in life is to positively impact, inspire, and motivate as many people as possible through my words and my talents. I thought I was going to do that primarily just through music. And as time has

Starting point is 02:29:41 evolved, lots of additional things have been added to that. So if I think something is going to move the needle on that. I typically say yes to it. If I don't, I typically say no. So brave books reached out to me last year. Um, and they were like, man, we've been following you for a while. All of our staff love what you do. And we're always sharing your tweets and sharing clips of your videos and stuff. So we'd love to, we'd love to do a children's book with you. Um, and I'd, I'd heard of them already. Cause I know a couple of people who'd done books with them and I was like, yeah, let's do it. Let's do it. So clearly passes that test. I mean, children are not a demographic that I've primarily targeted. Um, teenagers with my music, you know, lots of

Starting point is 02:30:29 teenagers have bought my music and stuff, but that sort of younger age group. And I was like, oh, cool. And then they were like, have a, have a think about what sort of topics they typically do more books that are more sociopolitical in, in terms of the overall message. It's not on the nose because it's still children's books. But I was like, you know what? I want to do one that's totally apolitical, has no slant to it in any way, and just has a positive and inspiring message. 2019, I'd written my book for adults called Strong Advice, Zuby's Guide to Fitness for Everybody. Sold over 10,000 copies independently. It's helped a lot of people to lose weight and get in shape. And I was like, man, there aren't that many children's books talking about health

Starting point is 02:31:11 and fitness. And why is it important? Parents will tell their kids, eat healthy, go out and exercise. They won't normally tell them why. And I was like, okay, let me have a story which is fun and it's an adventure and it's beautifully illustrated and I made it all rhyme. But it's about the importance of health, nutrition, exercise, and self-control. So in the story of the, in the book, it's about not going, avoiding the extremes, right? Not to be a complete lazy slob been to sit there and eat candy all day, but also don't exercise and forget to eat. Don't exercise to the point that you're forgetting to eat and you're exhausting yourself and you're, and you're passing out that there's a healthy balance. So that's the message I wanted to convey in the book.

Starting point is 02:31:54 And, um, it was also just fun. You know, I also say yes to things that excite me. As soon as I heard it, I was like, yo, actually the children's book wasn't on my radar, but it is right now. And that would be cool. And that'll be fun. And that'll help more people. And, um, it's done so, and it's doing that what has been the response from like parents and stuff that yeah so really really positive I've had some really nice uh videos and photos which are always fun to get like just people send you a dm and it's like their child holding their child holding the book or like them reading I'm like man that's that's so beautiful um so I'm not a parent yet I do have nine nieces and nephews so I that's basically yeah so when I was actually writing it I was

Starting point is 02:32:37 running it by them they range between like 3 and 16 so so i was when i when it was still just digital before it got printed i was showing them you know have a look at it and even just putting on an ipad and seeing how captivated they are and you know see can can you read along with the rhymes and so on so i kind of was able to field test it a little bit on them yeah a little sort of test This book was A-B tested by a group of nine kids. Where can people go to get the book? You can get the book at candycalamity.com. Okay.

Starting point is 02:33:13 Brave Books, which is at bravebooks.com, they also do a subscription. So they release a new book every month. So if someone wants to get their monthly book, you can get the subscription. It's all targeted for kids. Yeah. They're all children's books. But, yeah, candycalamity.com. You can grab it right there.

Starting point is 02:33:29 I just love also, by the way, I don't know if people are going to be able to see if they're watched on the video but the the look of the candy right on the front i'm like yeah yeah i've been in that mood before yeah and if you're a zoobie fan it's got it's got a couple uh it's got a couple little references in there that people might understand like okay dude okay dude you you have been able to capitalize on a number of different ridiculous uh events from the uh the dead lifting to the okay dude okay dude one did you ever get any blowback for the shirts and all that no no he just laughed nah made five figures from it but um yeah okay yeah from the merch but yeah no uh no blow i mean

Starting point is 02:34:13 i'll be honest man and people always ask me about blowback and hate and criticism and nasty stuff and yeah there's some of it but honestly it's it's like maybe two percent and it's and it's only online yeah it's only online in the real world everything is cool everything's blessed people are ultra nice i've had people come up to me in the stream but yo pop what's up yeah maybe nice to meet you whatever dm me on twitter so that i uh uh have your information or whatever and i will go look and in the fucking dm we'll bet pop you're an idiot like oh really i'm like and you know it's like two years before i'm like don't dm me if that's what you did before like what and i just been like are you good and they're

Starting point is 02:35:01 like yeah sorry man you know i just had a bad day that day whatever like and i'm a cool dude that happens all the time yeah i i i tell people this especially people who want to grow on social media there are at right now there are millions of people scrolling through their twitter facebook and instagram feeds looking for something to get upset about yes they're having a bad day they're already angry. And you might just be the person that day who comes across their feed, who's saying something they don't like. And it's, don't take it personally, right? Sometimes people are just in a nasty mood and you're the person who's in their crosshairs that day and they lash out at you. Also, some people just have weird ways of trying to get attention. So they might

Starting point is 02:35:41 think by saying, by calling you an idiot, that's the best way to get your attention. In some ways, it kind of is because we react more to negative than we do to positive you'll certainly get noticed but i'm probably not going to do you any favors after you've called me an idiot so i it's not the approach i recommend but and some of it's probably just bots i just look i always i'm sorry you feel that way yeah i'll try to do better next time right and they're like it's kind of hard right or like i remember one time somebody uh i think it was an email yeah i pretty much emailed And he was like, you're the biggest fucking moron, blah, blah, blah, whatever. And I just remember responding and just being like, well, if I was the smartest guy in the room, I'd be in the wrong room.

Starting point is 02:36:22 Right. And then they were kind of like, uh, yeah. It disarms people, doesn't it? But yeah, just like, how do you react to somebody who's like. Sometimes I've had people like apologize. Like sometimes someone comes at me like super harsh and then I won't respond in kind. And I'll be kind of like, well, you know, like, I hope you, I hope you still have a good day or whatever. And they're like, and then, you know, they'll message a couple of the other side, man.

Starting point is 02:36:41 I was kind of an asshole. Yeah. Like, hey, man, that's cool. No problem. Just don't be an asshole on the internet. Exactly, exactly. All right, where can we send people to find you on Twitter, too? Just at Zuby Music?

Starting point is 02:36:51 Yeah, sure, at Zuby Music. Yeah, on all social media, at Zuby Music. And what's the website? TeamZuby.com. TeamZuby.com. And by the time this podcast comes out, the new version should have been launched. I'm doing a whole new merch relaunch.

Starting point is 02:37:04 I've shifted my whole merchandise operation to the USA. Got brand new stuff. Yeah, so the merch is going to be taken over in the next year. All right, so TeamZuby.com, CandyCalamity.com. That's right. And then Zuby Music on all social media. That's it. You are welcome here whenever you want, my friend.

Starting point is 02:37:23 I enjoy talking to you every single time, so thanks so much. Appreciate it, bro. God bless. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to transition into a brand new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to thecryptoacademy.io.

Starting point is 02:37:42 My team and I have been working with the top HR teams in the industry to develop an intensive three-week training program with over 50 live events. We teach you exactly what you need to know to break into the industry, including live interview prep and resume review. Our students have been hired at over 75 of the world's best Bitcoin and crypto companies. Go to thecryptoacademy.io to learn more. Again, that's thecryptoacademy.io. If you enjoyed today's episode, make sure you share it with your friends, and I'll see you all for the next episode. We'll be right back.

The Pomp Podcast - #1088 Zuby Exposes Everything Wrong With Society

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