The Pomp Podcast - #1498 Vivek Ramaswamy | Can Bitcoin Save America?

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should

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Starting point is 00:03:46 Go to ReedSmith.com to learn more about the best lawyers in the game. ReedSmith.com. Go check them out today. I believe we're going to see more and more institutions, including companies, and then eventually state actors as well, view the Bitcoin standard as sort of their hurdle rate to say that if I'm going to invest in something else internally in terms of projects, it better beat the rate of return of, say, some fixed supply asset like Bitcoin. I see it as a new era of capital discipline and a new era of fiscal and monetary policy discipline for the United States, which is what I'm in this for.

Starting point is 00:04:21 I believe that's a good thing for our country as well. Let's start with, I think, the topic that everyone in this room wants to hear about. You were a very big proponent of Bitcoin on the campaign trail as part of the presidential campaign. And then when you put your support behind President Trump, I think that you were one of the major voices that really explained to him what Bitcoin was and what the value potentially could be for the United States and for individuals that hold it. What are your current views as to how Bitcoin and the government or politicians can interact and help each other? Yeah, and I'm also proud to say I'm probably the only candidate who declared for governor in probably U.S. history who had Bitcoin present in my opening candidacy speech for governor run at the state level as well. And I think that this is because we got to be skating to where the puck is going, right? Not just from the standpoint of being a Bitcoiner or a financial markets person, but even just from the standpoint of where sovereign nations are necessarily headed, where the U.S. is necessarily headed. We've got a national debt crisis approaching epic proportions in our country, where the interest payments on our national debt are soon going to be the largest line item on our federal budget.

Starting point is 00:05:29 they're already bigger than the entire defense budget. We're going to have to think in the future about what that means for tying the hands or at least providing competition to the Federal Reserve and to central banks and frankly, other Western countries as well that have run on hyperdrive for too long. Eventually, people are going to look to those alternatives. Historically, if you look through most of world history, that alternative has existed in the form of gold. But there you have different questions about physical supply, storage. Now we have a new finite supply. And I think that that's really important. Separating low resolution discussion about crypto broadly versus Bitcoin, a fixed supply asset that

Starting point is 00:06:10 is mathematically defined, that frankly, not only individuals, but now corporations, you're beginning to see the rise of Bitcoin treasury companies, other institutions are beginning to understand this is a form of capital discipline. That's where the future is headed. And I do think it's in the self-interest of the United States, and frankly, individual states as well, to be able to realize that before they're just jumping on the train too late. In some sense, it's better to jump on late than never. But I do think when you think about fiscal discipline and the role that Bitcoin is going to play, it is an alternative. It is an opt-out. It is something that therefore holds the feet to the fire of central banks, holds the feet to the fire of

Starting point is 00:06:49 the U.S. dollar itself in a way that's actually constructive for the U.S. dollar to have that type of competition where you can't turn on the printing machine with Bitcoin in the same way that you can with a fiat currency. But I also think it's an opportunity in the long run when you think about this national debt crisis and our way out in the United States and other governments as well that are facing similar debt crises. Something with fixed supply that has value, a fixed store value is actually potentially a path out as well. And so I'm a big believer in financial freedom. I think Bitcoin is a representation of financial freedom born in the aftermath of the 08 crisis and the ignominious bailouts now really realizing, I think, the early days of when people understand that the path to the solution, the path to the future is really just going back to the first principles of financial freedom of competition with a fixed supply that can't automatically be turned on like a money printing machine. that I think is going to be something that more and more individuals, more and more companies,

Starting point is 00:07:51 other institutions, and even states and sovereigns are going to appreciate and going to have to appreciate over the course of the next 10 years. One of the things that I know you've talked quite a bit about is there's been like a centralization of power, but there's also been a hollowing out of American manufacturing of the middle class in the United States. And a lot of that has come from this pursuit of cheap products, cheap labor, globalization. And what I think Bitcoin has probably done that no other technology that I can think of is that it was a bottoms up story. A lot of the people in the lower socioeconomic classes were able to go ahead and acquire this before the large financial institutions, before the corporations, before the nation states.

Starting point is 00:08:33 And so how does that play into now the largest pools of capital playing in an asset where when they start to buy, when they start to participate, it will actually enrich the people, not the large institutions, not the large corporations. It's like a very fascinating bottoms-up technology story that is really coming on the heels of a 50-year-plus trend of hollowing out of that middle class. That will be the case, Pomp, so long as overregulation doesn't get in the way. I mean, historically, a lot of what the financial regulatory, especially the federal but also state level apparatus has done is in the name of helping the very people they seek to protect, they actually end up making it far worse off for those very people they are protecting by stopping

Starting point is 00:09:17 them from participating in some of the areas that people in higher income strata are able to. So assuming we continue to operate under the caveat that there's not going to be artificial constraints that stop people at every end of the socioeconomic stratum from participating, and I'm optimistic about that, I don't see things headed that way right now, then yes, I think you're right. This can be actually a unifying force that lifts up Americans of all stripes, of all backgrounds. I also think that beyond just the pie in the sky, you know, vision, I think that very pragmatically, look at the environment that we're in with respect to capital discipline. We're not in a fiscal and even financial markets environment

Starting point is 00:09:57 anymore of just turning on the money printing machine and having effectively zero cost money. You know, you saw that for a lot of startups, a lot of stock market got addicted to that zero interest rate environment. That's not where we are right now. So I speak as somebody who, yes, I'm running for governor of the state of Ohio now. I ran for U.S. president before. I don't think of myself as a politician, though. At my heart, I'm an entrepreneur. I've built businesses. I speak as a former CEO when I say this. that changing environment also changes the hurdle rate for capital investment internally. So I think part of what you're seeing is historically, there was no internal hurdle rate. There was no discipline for institutions, nonprofits, for-profit companies to think about, okay, well, if I'm investing in this project internally, it's sort of zero interest-free money anyway. I'm not thinking about what the opportunity costs of that capital is, just take it in and spend. It's a different environment now. We're not going to be in a

Starting point is 00:10:56 zero interest rate environment for the foreseeable future. Now businesses have to think about what is their hurdle rate for internal investment. And I do think that the Bitcoin standard has emerged over the course of the last 15 years. It's almost the ripening of Bitcoin and the Bitcoin standard comes at exactly the point in time where more of those institutions are going to need to think in a rigorous way about their hurdle rates as well. And so I think both in the unifying social sense of this, the sense of empowerment, the sense of financial freedom that Bitcoin represents, that's, I think, a positive cultural force and a cultural realization. But it comes at a time where it's not just the soft, touchy-feely stuff, but it is paired with a recognition that we're in

Starting point is 00:11:40 an environment of increasing capital scarcity compared to the last couple of decades, certainly the last decade. And against that backdrop, I believe we're going to see more and more institutions, including companies, and then eventually state actors as well, view the Bitcoin standard as sort of their hurdle rate to say that if I'm going to invest in something else internally in terms of projects, it better beat the rate of return of, say, some fixed supply asset like Bitcoin. And so I do think that that's going to become more normalized. We're already seeing the early stages of it and the confluence of that bottom-up need and desire for financial freedom and participation by the everyman, but combined with institutions also becoming more

Starting point is 00:12:20 rigorous, I think could really be a new era for Bitcoin ahead. And from where I sit, that's great that it's a new era for Bitcoin, but I see it as a new era of capital discipline and a new era of fiscal and monetary policy discipline for the United States, which is what I'm in this for. I believe that's a good thing for our country as well. The state of Ohio, many people probably They don't know the history of the state. And given that you're running for governor, I've seen you talking quite a bit about how dominant the state was and how important it was in terms of manufacturing and kind of the industrial revolution and so much of our country's history. Right now, I think it would be fair to say that's not the position that Ohio is in, but you aspire to get it to come back to one of the dominant states that can really kind of help. What is the plan?

Starting point is 00:13:09 How do you think about, you know, from this? I almost think of it as like a Bitcoin perspective. It's yes, Bitcoin, but there's also a way of looking at so much around the economy, so much around job creation, so much around the way that people live their lives here in America. What is your plan to bring Ohio back? look just as a bit of history for people who aren't aware ohio was at the bleeding edge of the first industrial revolution ohio led the way it was the wealthiest state in the union at the turn of the last century even in the 50s six of the top 15 wealthiest cities were right here in ohio and this is relevant to our discussion as we think about the future right toledo was the glass capital of the world akron was the rubber capital youngstown and cleveland were jointly the steel capitalists of the world. Dayton powered the computing power engine for the Industrial

Starting point is 00:13:56 Revolution. Cincinnati was the consumer products capital. And I bring all of this up not just because it's ancient history, but it was a mentality of our state being the state of the pioneers, the explorers, the unafraid, the people who were chasing the future rather than just replicating our past. Neil Armstrong, John Glenn then gained the self-confidence. It's a virtuous cycle here, a flywheel, where those guys grow up in that state. Then they say, you know what, I can go to the outer frontiers of outer space. The Wright brothers came from Ohio in that same era. That builds on itself. Things have changed. I don't want to go through the Saab story, but the Rust Belt emerged in the shadow of that one-time industrial revolution. I want to turn

Starting point is 00:14:36 the Rust Belt back into the Platinum Belt because I think we have the same geographic advantages. We could go through all of them. You've got the Erie Canal to the New York City, the Ohio River to the Mississippi, fertile farmland. Our location at the heart of the nation known to mankind, 60% of North America's population within a single day's drive of where I'm sitting right now in central Ohio. And frankly, even you think about the future of Bitcoin mining, think about the future of AI data centers, we've got natural gas underneath our ground right here. We've got oil underneath our ground, great natural resources under our ground. There are some regulatory barriers that have gotten in the way of being a leading state

Starting point is 00:15:14 for drill, baby, drill, but that can change and should change in the future as well with the right kind of leader. And so the way I look at this, Pomp, is if Silicon Valley led the way in the American economy for the last 10 years, it is going to be the Ohio River Valley in the next 10 years on my watch. And it may not be the sectors of the past like rubber production. I'm okay with that if it is, but I don't think it is going to be. I think it is going to be the sectors of the future, from semiconductors to nuclear energy, from biotech to Bitcoin to our defense industrial base, the state where we use AI not to take jobs, but to make jobs through workforce training and education. Think about AI for a second. Look at all of the capital that's

Starting point is 00:15:56 flowing into training new AI, and that's a fine thing to do. I think an underappreciated opportunity is training human beings, training workforces and skilled workers to use that AI and apply it to their respective fields, from healthcare to financial services to construction design. That's where you're going to see a productivity leap. And so it's in that spirit, as we're having a discussion today about Bitcoin, you know, we could talk about other sectors of the future as well. But as we're having that discussion about Bitcoin, it's that spirit, that pioneering spirit of ambition, that modern day Northwest Ordinance for Ohio. The Northwest Ordinance set up Ohio at the heart of a group of states in the Northwest Territories, even before the Constitutional

Starting point is 00:16:37 convention. The idea that we're the state that actually paves the way to the future. And there's no doubt then that Bitcoin has to be an essential element of that. If we're not eyes wide open to that and embracing it, then it's in some ways reverting to the last 70 years instead of our first 70 years as a state. And the way I want it, the direction I want to take us is that not only are we one of the dominant states, if I may say, I want to be the leading state in the country that sets a standard. We're talking about the Bitcoin standard earlier. Now let's talk about the state standard. I want to set the Ohio standard for the rest of the country that sets a model for what other states can aspire to. And there's opportunities that are Bitcoin related that

Starting point is 00:17:19 are even percolating here in Ohio that we could talk about. But more generally, it's that spirit, that spirit of ambition and exceptionalism and the pursuit of excellence. I want to make Ohio the state of excellence, of economic excellence and educational excellence. And that includes financial literacy through education. That's where I want to lead us. And I hope it sets an Ohio standard for the rest of the nation, because this is the last point I'll make on this strand, Pomp, is I worked my tail off last year to help do my part to send Donald Trump back to the White House, because I felt that was what was required for the future of our country. We especially got young people part of that coalition. I went to college campuses, a place where I disproportionately

Starting point is 00:18:00 spent my time. And I think he's doing, in my opinion, a fantastic job of reviving our spirit in the country. But whatever it is, it's never going to be a one-man job. It doesn't work that way. If we're going to be saved as a country, it's going to be because we all step up and save ourselves. And I believe that actually starts with the states. If you look at what's happening in Washington, D.C. right now, programs from education to healthcare are getting kicked down where they belong to the states and to the people. That's what true federalism is about. And so my prediction is that in the next couple of years, the center of gravity of American politics, the center of gravity of saving America is actually going to move in a good way from

Starting point is 00:18:44 Washington, D.C., where the first chapter is happening now, back to the states. And that's where we're going to need, I believe, strong governors to lead the way. And that's why I was called into this next chapter for my life. And I hope that we use Ohio and my leadership of Ohio to set an example to show what is possible in America and revive that sense of American exceptionalism from right here in our heartland. One of the things that I think Bitcoiners really appreciate about the asset and the network is fiat human interventionist monetary policy is all about being reactive. What's happening in the world? How do we change monetary policy to to accommodate those events. The Bitcoin network has a monetary policy that is not reactive. It

Starting point is 00:19:28 continues to operate exactly as designed, regardless of what's happening in the world. And the world is forced to conform to the Bitcoin monetary policy. It reminds me a lot, I think, some of your earlier books around DEI and ESG. And what it really felt like from a society standpoint is we got held hostage by the extremes. We wanted to cater to everybody. We wanted to say, hey, you know what? We are going to humbly hope that we can just do a good job. When I hear you talk now, you are saying that there's a standard of excellence. You want to be the best. You want to actually create jobs. It's a whole different approach where being the best is not only the standard, but it is the expectation. And so maybe you can somewhat of

Starting point is 00:20:10 a Bitcoin ethos where Bitcoin is the best asset and people are unapologetic about it. how you see that playing into successfully being able to lead a portion of the population inside of a state to come back and ultimately, you know, kind of achieve this plan that you have. Yeah, the ethos is such an important point, right? I think half the, you know, aspect of leadership as a president or governor is about the policy agenda you drive, and that's important. But the other half is the character of leadership, the cultural tone that you set for the people you lead. It applies even in a company or another institution. It certainly applies at the level of a state or a nation. We're not victims. We're victors. That's who we are. And I think that

Starting point is 00:20:50 what's happened over the course of the last, you could say, number of decades is we grew, whether it's in our educational system or in our financial system or our economic policies, to celebrate victimhood over excellence. And what we're doing here is leading a movement. This is part of that Bitcoin ethos of embracing the pursuit of excellence. That is who we are, embracing success without apologizing for it. My message earlier this week to every son and daughter of Ohio, including my two sons here, is that the American dream is your birthright as an American and as an Ohioan. A world-class education is your birthright. Success is your birthright. Freedom was our heritage, and excellence is our destiny. That's who we are.

Starting point is 00:21:32 That's a statement of character. And I think that's what makes, by the way, America particularly unique is that we're not just a nation founded on a lineage or a bloodline. We're a nation founded on a set of ideals that bring us together in this homeland, this place we call home, that infuses this place with that sense of purpose and meaning and identity. That is the American spirit. And that's part of why I am a fan of anything that helps revive us, help us remind us of who we are, that spirit of excellence, boundlessness, exceptionalism, without apology, right? We've been taught to apologize for excellence no longer.

Starting point is 00:22:10 Don't apologize for success. And that's not one form of success. It doesn't mean you have to pursue a four-year college degree. You could pursue it through a path to becoming a plumber or an electrician or a mechanic or a welder. It doesn't matter. The path to success are plural.

Starting point is 00:22:23 Every path open to every child built on the idea of meritocracy, a nation that recognizes that every one of us, every one of you has your own unique God-given gift that is distinct from every other person in the world, but that we're the nation where you get to use the maximum of your own God-given gift, whatever that may be, to realize the maximum of your potential. That is the American ethos. And I see that same ethos. You could see it. You could feel it. You could smell it, right, the ethos of the Bitcoin revolution as well. That's, for me, the common kinship here.

Starting point is 00:23:01 is the idea of belief in choice, belief in freedom. That's who we are. Freedom is our heritage. Excellence is our destiny. And that's what makes me say with confidence, the American dream is your birthright. And I do think that there are some, I'm happy to talk about some of them, simple policy changes, some predictions I have for how we're going to see that actualized in financial markets. But that's all, in some sense, the details. It's the broader spirit that I'm most excited about reviving. And that gives our kids then the self-confidence to strive for excellence. I wrote those books, as you mentioned, I was a biotech entrepreneur. Our first company is now far from where you all are right now in

Starting point is 00:23:41 New York City, developing medicines for patients who had diseases that pharma had ignored. I oversaw the development of five medicines that are FDA approved. One of them now is a life-saving therapy in kids where kids who were previously dying are now living lives of a normal duration. That's the American spirit. I stepped down as the CEO of that company because I became worried about corporate America being infiltrated by political agendas. We could talk about them, DEI, ESG, all of that. I wrote some books about it.

Starting point is 00:24:09 I wrote Woke Inc. I wrote another book, Capitalist Punishment, exposing it. But I also wanted to solve the problem. So as an entrepreneur, that's where I thought I was solving it initially. I started a company called Strive that I founded right here in Ohio. And Strive's goal was to provide alternatives, choice outside of the ESG industrial complex to provide access to the same kinds of index funds, but without voting for environmental or social agendas. And Strive succeeded over its first couple of years right out the gate, still as a young company, showing that when you give people a choice, they flock to that choice. But all people deserve and need is an alternative in a truly free market.

Starting point is 00:24:49 And I think that, too, is part of the Bitcoin ethos that I'm proud to see, you know, the people who have taken over, strive and carry on that legacy, embracing that Bitcoin ethos in the future direction. They're taking that business. I'm proud to see the same thing at the national level. Helped in Iran for U.S. president, played my role in helping Donald Trump get back to the White House. I'm proud to see that ethos now emerge at the national level. And I think the next frontier is at the level of the states as well to bring that spirit back, not just through actual policies, which which we can talk about. but that character and that spirit as well. And I think it's the right question to ask, Pomp. One of the topics that everyone seems to be talking about, not only in the mainstream media, but every speaker that we've spoken with when we talk about the economy, is government spending.

Starting point is 00:25:34 And you started out talking about this national debt. You are one of the founders of DOGE, the Department of Government Efficiency. And I think that people are watching the activities that they're doing. You spend a lot of time thinking about how do you solve these problems? Maybe the question, though, that people are confused by or trying to figure out right now, if Doge is successful, could that actually be bad for Bitcoin? Right. If you think about kind of government spending and dollar debasement and all these things, by being able to balance the budget, would that have a negative impact on Bitcoin? Or how do you think about the relationship between many of these kind of risk assets versus something like Doge? Yeah, I mean, there's a difference between, you know, who one is and the lens, the prism they bring. Are you a defensive, short-term, insecure, frightened thinker?

Starting point is 00:26:23 Or do you actually believe in the actual purpose of why you're doing what you're doing in the very long run? And I'll talk to you about, you know, Doge and my perspective there. I was proud to play a role in getting that off the ground. But to take even a bigger step back, because I think this is such an important point. you actually touched an important pulse here. Here's something I see on the left, but I see it on the right at times too, is people get addicted to the problems they try to solve because they feel like that's their only reason then for existence. So I'll give you a good example of, I mean, a lot of nonprofits do this all the time. They solve the problem,

Starting point is 00:27:01 they should celebrate it, move on and find other things to do. Instead, they try to pretend the problem still exists because otherwise they say, oh, we have no reason left for existence. Well, in the institutions and the businesses I've built, I operate the other way. I talked about Strive earlier, which I'm incredibly proud of, got off the ground in fighting the ESG war, making sure that corporations weren't taking environmental and social policies in their corporate boardrooms and in their proxy voting that was holding back energy companies and other businesses. that's now, I wouldn't say all done, but it's peak ESG and peak DEI is behind us. That's in the rear view mirror. And I'm proud Matt Cole, who's the CEO of Strive, who I think you guys are hearing from later today, is now charting a course in a direction that's broader vision of financial freedom that integrates Bitcoin into the future of that vision. That's great. That's what an example of true leadership looks like. Let's talk about that now in the form of

Starting point is 00:27:50 Bitcoiners. I think it's going to be a fantastic thing. Any reform that we see that helps us solve the national debt crisis is good. It is something that we should be celebrating. And, you know, I worked around the clock for those two and a half months after the election, but really it was the lead up for a couple of years in laying out a vision of what it means to tear down the federal bureaucracy. I'm proud of what Elon and President Trump are doing. They're doing an outstanding job. I played a role side by side with them for several months, getting it off the ground. The decision we made was that we're going to need leaders at the states to take on a lot of the programs that are getting kicked down to the states. I'm proud to have both of their support

Starting point is 00:28:25 now leading the state of Ohio as my next chapter. But we should be celebrating that outcome, not feeling insecure about it to say that, oh, well, Bitcoin was supposed to help solve this problem. What if that problem goes away? That's fantastic. That's great. That's mission-oriented and purpose-driven, which is really what the true Bitcoin ethos is about, not this defensive thing to say, oh, this problem we were solving might be gone. What then? Bitcoin stands on its own terms as a symbol of financial freedom to celebrate nations in many ways moving towards doing the right thing. We do have a $36 trillion national debt crisis in this country. Dealing with it is the only option if the country is going to continue to exist in the long run. People say

Starting point is 00:29:08 it's impossible to cut $2 trillion from the federal budget. Well, let's just do some basic math. Ask your average congressman, though I will warn you they probably won't know the answer, how much money did the federal government spend? Not discretionary, non-discretionary mumbo-jumbo stuff, just the cash accounting. How much did the government spend last year? The answer is just shy of $7 trillion. Now ask him the next question. How much did the government spend, just cash accounting, not the mumbo-jumbo, in the year 2019, the federal government? Less than $4.5 trillion. That is a $2.5 trillion difference right there between 2024 and 2019. And 2019 was not some ancient ice age some distance ago. So is this achievable? Absolutely, it's achievable. And

Starting point is 00:29:52 should we be celebrating its achievement? Absolutely, we should. Is that bad for people who embrace Bitcoin? No, it's good in the long run because it signifies a country that recognizes, a voter base that recognizes we're giving our leaders the mandate to do the right thing. And if you truly believe Bitcoin is the right thing for those everyday Americans, you should be heartened by that and not disheartened. Though in any movement, you're going to have those who are more short term, maybe even I would go so far as to say have some insecurities versus those who are deeply confident for the right kinds of reason in a bone deep kind of way. And I think that that's most of the Bitcoin movement, I think, represents people

Starting point is 00:30:32 in the latter camp. And so I think it's gonna be a great thing for us to celebrate when the country is on a path to doing the right thing. And for my part, I approach this as an American and somebody country. And that's why I am a positive Bitcoin or not the other way around, if that makes sense. And that's why I'm in this. I think it's safe to say you have a lot of support in this room. And there's a lot of people who really appreciate your view on the world. There probably are some Ohioans that are here in this room. But for those that are not from the state of Ohio, how can they help you in what you're trying to accomplish?

Starting point is 00:31:08 Yeah, well, look, I appreciate that. Look, coming and showing up and volunteering in person, probably the best thing to do. And the advice I give successful people across the country, as you have in the room right now, is the number one thing I know what a sacrifice it takes to run for office and to actually assume that responsibility and give up and make the personal sacrifices needed. If you find it in your heart and the practicality in your life to be able to do that as a mayor, as a governor, as a school board member, as a senator, as a congressman, whatever it may be, if you're successful as a business leader, you've lived the American dream and you're willing and able to make that sacrifice, go do it because we need

Starting point is 00:31:48 more people who aren't professional politicians. That'd be my number one ask. My number two ask is that if you're not able to do that right now in your life, then support somebody else of that ilk who is. And VivekforOhio.com is the website for our campaign. Learn more about it. Frankly, we're building a movement here. I've lived the American dream. It's not just about the money, but it is about the support that we demonstrate. And I got to say that the more we show, the more of a decisive show of support. And one of the metrics in a campaign and a journey like this is the financial support coming from all corners, big or small. I'd be greatly appreciative. And so for those who could put in their time, that's the number one thing I'd ask. And if not, if your time

Starting point is 00:32:31 to spend elsewhere. I respect that. We welcome that type of support. It's vivekforohio.com. And more generally, I'll just say, I think this is true about for Bitcoin as it is for America, as it is for the state of Ohio. I believe that our best days are actually still ahead of us, not in some fake cheesy politician way, but in a true way. We're not going to get there automatically. It's going to require every one of us stepping up and playing our part. And for those of you in this movement, I appreciate your support, not just personally, but on behalf of the country. And also continue to keep your eyes open for the great businesses who are themselves opening up their eyes to the Bitcoin standard. That too, I think is going to

Starting point is 00:33:16 actually be happening sooner than even states and sovereigns stepping up and opening their eyes. And so for the companies that open their eyes and say that, you know what, we understand what Bitcoin is and we understand what the Bitcoin standard means, make sure that that next wave is successful as well, because I do think that that's the bridge to, sadly, politicians and government generally being the last ones to understand something. That's part of the bridge to getting the politicians to wake up as well. Thank you very much, sir. Ladies and gentlemen, the next governor of Ohio, Vivek Ramaswamy. Thank you.

The Pomp Podcast - #1498 Vivek Ramaswamy | Can Bitcoin Save America?

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