The Pomp Podcast - #1528 Jordi Visser | Bitcoin Is Primed To PUMP As The Dollar Collapses

Episode Date: April 12, 2025

Jordi Visser is a macro investor with over 30 years of Wall Street experience. He also writes a Substack called “VisserLabs” and puts out investing YouTube videos. In this conversation we discuss how the market broke, what is going to happen, what that means for your portfolio, how US gets out of this situation, how China will react, and how bitcoin plays into all of it.=======================Core is the leading Bitcoin scaling solution, enabling you to lock in yield by locking up your Bitcoin. Simply lock it on the Bitcoin blockchain to secure the Core network, and get rewards. No bridging. No lending. Just holding. Still your keys. Still your coins. Now your yield. Start at stake.coredao.org/pomp.=======================Polkadot is a scalable, secure, and decentralized blockchain technology aimed at creating Web3. Created by Gavin Wood, co-founder of Ethereum, Polkadot empowers users to build decentralized applications with ease. Backed by industry leaders, making it a preferred choice for big names, Polkadot stands out as a leading choice for investors seeking a reliable, future-proof solution in the growing world of Web3 technology. Learn more at https://polkadot.com/.=======================Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/=======================View 10k+ open startup jobs:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. What's going on, guys? We've got a great conversation this week with Jordy Visser. In this conversation, Jordy breaks down why the markets broke, how they broke, what's going to happen,

what does it mean for your portfolio, how will the United States get out of the situation, how will China react, and what should we expect to happen with global trade, what should be the global reserve currency moving forward, how do things like Bitcoin actually play into this, artificial intelligence, and much, much more. This entire conversation goes deep into all the different rabbit holes of what's happening in the market and how it's going to impact you, And then at the end, Jordy gives us the light at the end of the tunnel. What is the optimistic view of where we are headed? So make sure you listen all the way to the end to get some good news that we can finally

all hang on to. Here's my latest conversation with Jordy Visser. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

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seems to be the top choice for industry players. Go check them out today at polkadot.com. All right, Jordy, I thought a great place to start the conversation is this entire week has been insane. It seems like the system is just broken and people don't know why it's broken or where we go from here. So do you agree that the system is actually broken? This week, I will literally say in something that will be out there for the rest of my life, that the system officially broke this week.

the top of the global capital structure is U.S. bonds and as we sit here I've seen something that I haven't seen since my days in Brazil so so far month to date bonds are down over five percent so yields are up significantly stocks are down over five percent and the dollar is down about five percent so the currency bonds and stocks all going down in a panic way that doesn't happen and the last time i saw that type of thing was in emerging markets so if this isn't the official end of the system which again i don't want this to sound like doom and gloomish this is kind of what donald trump wanted he wanted to break global trade you had keir starmer over the weekend say globalism is dead. I believe this is the beginning of a new system. And so when you

transition from an old system to a new system, this is what really happens. And the only question now is how are they how is the government going to make the transition? And we got more on that this week with the actions of Donald Trump on Wednesday. So when you think about this system breaking, I think of maybe three layers of the system. There is a global trade. There is the way that the bond slash stock market is supposed to work and the relationship between the two of them and then i think that there is um maybe global alliances right and some of these have overlap some of them are very different global trade feels like uh every single person i've talked to in the supply chain on the ground everything we are now moving to a bipolar world

where you need to have a china strategy and you have a u.s strategy and that does overlap some these like global alliances but also feels like no physical infrastructure of the global supply chain what are you doing in the united states and what are you doing in china southeast asia is that how you see this kind of fragmentation or is it more complex than that well i think it's more complex because you have to remember so china's currency and the versus dollar is not moving that much the rest of the world's moving a lot so if you're focused only on your china where you're buying parts and you're not focused on europe at this point the dollar is falling rapidly so if you're someone that needs to purchase things overseas your currency is becoming i mean

everything is changing so rapidly because of the fact that this is seems to be the end of global trade the way we've seen it i thought this was going to happen i don't think this is going to go in the speed it is for very long because the system is breaking when when rates are going higher and you have to remember when when we sat here originally and when we all listened to the plan from scott besant the the theory was with all this global trade breaking down changing currencies there was a bond put bond yields are very close to breaking out to the upside 30-year yields as we sit here around five percent the high before donald trump came in there over the course the last three years was 517. mortgage rates are going to go higher like the whole plan of we're going to

help people all throughout the country it's not there so i just think everyone just has to deal with the fact that we're in this point where all this while we figure out this system the china u.s relationship is really important but the currency is not moving over there so it's just the rest of the world it's kind of like a sausage squeeze right now while the us and china figure out how to come to some terms so let's talk about some of the like the intricate details that i think people are confused by um we can start with if the system's breaking why is bitcoin's price not going up gold was going up but bitcoin isn't does that mean bitcoin is over bitcoin is not a safe haven bitcoin doesn't work i'm sure you're getting asked this question every day non-stop

so you answer it i'm tired of answering it well especially while gold is up four percent in the last three days uh every gold bug is dming me saying i told you so so if we go through and we talk about who steps in to buy bitcoin in size gold's a different story sovereign wealth funds already own it. It's very easy for them to go out and buy it. Countries, central banks already own it. They can go out and buy it. Hedge funds, they love to buy gold. Wall Street doesn't believe in Bitcoin. So I think the problem is the view on Bitcoin is that it's NASDAQ. Okay. So I don't think it should be skyrocketing like gold yet. I think that happens when we get the printing press turned on again, which is going to have to happen. It's going to have to happen soon because we now

have, as I said, the top of the global capital structure. If I say one thing over and over again today, it'll probably be the top of the global capital structure. The safest asset in the world is falling. It's falling versus other bonds around the world. This type of thing hasn't happened before. Because people are selling. That's how these things work. They go down because people are selling. And that is because they don't believe the bond performance will be there, or they don't believe that the U.S. exposure at a highly concentrated level is, quote unquote, safe anymore. So you've got a lot of people talking about who the selling is coming from. Is it central banks? Is it the basis trade blowing up? I'm sure it's everything.

The reality is it's not a safe haven anymore. And when you're sitting at foreign change percent on 10 year yields and you think the basement has to be the answer because the currency is going down. If you're a bondholder in Europe right now, or a stockholder, you're not only losing on the assets, but now you're losing on the currency. So when I said stocks were down 5%, bonds were down 5%, and the dollar's down 5%. So if you hold US assets outside this country, this is a pretty historic move in terms of what's happened. And if you're in 60-40, you're losing on both sides, plus you're losing in the currency. So I think there's a combination of everything happening, which again it fills into is the dollar is the u.s the reserve currency anymore and does the u.s

want that anymore and the answer is i i think it's pretty explicit we don't want that role anymore we still say we want a stronger currency but i think what's clear okay explain explain this because i think people aren't going to uh they're gonna be a little shocked when they hear you say that the u.s dollar as the global reserve currency there are a plethora of benefits for us having that position. Why would the U.S. not want to be the global reserve currency anymore? Because of the negatives that they've associated with being in that position. So the Stephen Mirren piece went through the fact that we've suffered in trade. We've been carrying a trade deficit for a long, long time, way longer than was supposed to be set up on this. So everyone

can debate the positives of the reserve currency and the negatives. I think we've seen the security side. He brought that up in terms of how much we're paying in terms of dollars around the world to be the police officer of the world there's a whole bunch of things that have gone with it i don't think for a second that when you leave say the the the government officials around the globe that a person in brazil doesn't still believe in the u.s as the place i just don't think that a person in indonesia if they have to put their currency in a stable coin peg to something i still think dollar is going to be the reserve currency no matter what but i do think from government officials in trade. It's no longer the reserve currency. And I think the trade deficit

has been put in by the administration. And as I've said, I think there are two ways this was going to result. One was either what we're going through now. I think the more painful thing would have been a failed bond auction. I think this is the least painful of them, believe it or not, because I think there's a way to control this much better. But we have reached a point this week where regardless of what you thought, he had to flinch on Wednesday and rates are now higher significantly than they were then. And that was called the bond put. So I think with the reserve currency, I think the way that people think about it, the system of trade, the way we've seen it, I don't think the reserve currency exists. But for people, I still believe in

America. So if that is true, which I tend to agree is there have been irreparable damage that has been done. If you believe the old system was working, if you don't, you're excited because you Hey, we're reordering this stuff. What is the new order? Right. Both from a global trade standpoint, but also there's a capital stack. If the US is going to take itself out of the top, where do we go?

And is there another sovereign that is at the top of the capital stack or is it something like gold or Bitcoin? And this is why this word that we've heard for years, it's decentralized. So I had to respond to someone early this morning when I put out a post on X about how it was a historic week for U.S. yields versus German tenure yields and how much it had gone wider. And at the same time, with yields going higher, you have the dollar weakening. And so the post was really related to we're entering a new world

and this new system is decentralized. And there's two forces of decentralization which are going to be the way we exchange around the globe. Bitcoin is the digital asset of the digital economy. So rather than think about the physical goods, a stat that I don't think people have fully kind of come to terms with. So I said here the first time we sat down that the problem with the policies is when you try to separate mainstream and Wall Street, it's not possible. And it's because we have a financialized economy where debt to GDP is 120% and stock market cap to GDP at the beginning of the year was 200%. Imports as a percentage of GDP are 14%. That's exactly where they were in 2007 before we started to see the debt and the stock market go higher. So

the problem is we need a decentralized framework, which means China and the U.S., which are most of the global debt of the world, are they going to be able to come to an agreement? I'm not sure it's going to be a kumbaya agreement, but I do think the agreement will end up being that the decentralization will speed up from here because of AI and because of crypto. And do we see decentralization accelerating means volatility will accelerate? Because I think one of the things that has been really interesting and i think we talked about it last week is uh up 20 down 20 up 20 down 20 has now become like up 10 down 10 a day by day right i mean there's literally days where we've been down six seven percent and then turn around good news

we go up seven to ten percent and then oh wait that was fake news back down right i mean it just feels like uh the intraday volatility is even accelerating not just you know kind of year to year. So here's the funny thing. And I put this in my sub stack posts this week where, so we fell 10% in two days, the final two days of last week. So I wrote a paper that was optimistic saying the light at the end of the turbulence. And I get a bunch of people responding saying, there's no way this is it. And within there, I very clearly say, when you have this kind of a move, government officials have to respond to it. You have two choices at this point. The system is crumbling and with the top of the global capital structure falling,

everyone, not just Main Street, Wall Street, but Europe, China, everybody's in this. And so you have a choice. And every time we've had a choice where it's like, okay, we're gonna let the fiat system de-lever in an uncontrolled manner. Okay, well, that's what the depression is. So the end result is every time I've seen this

from the beginning of my first day in 1994 trading a book is they come in with printing every single time because debasement is a much easier approach on this. So when the volatility picks up, that actually means we're getting close to the end. Because one thing I've never seen is when the volatility picks up, it just stops. Like, it's not going back. The market has had a hard time. There's not a dissipation of it.

There's usually some sort of asymmetric up or down. And you start seeing governments throw things on the wall to try and stop it from happening. All right. So that brings us to the Fed. We know CPI 2.4, everyone's celebrating. You could have known that weeks ago if you pay attention to like true inflation. Obviously, inflation has been crashing. Economics slow down.

You don't want inflation to come down because you're crashing the global economy. But also there is this element of there's a deflationary force that's at play right now. The Fed, depending on who you ask, will make decisions based on inflation crashing too low. Others will say it's an employment thing. Others will say they're just making it up as they go. the odds of an emergency cut are increasing, but I don't know if they're yet at the point where we should expect that. So other than Trump and Besant and Letnick and Navarro making different decisions or, you know, different interviews, what else do you expect the

government to do? So I think a rate cut is is last on the list of things that I'd expect to see. But if it gets disorderly, absolutely the case. I think they still have the ability of intervening in the bond market through, I mean, they're still doing quantitative tightening right now. So they could turn that into something else. They could say something liquidity wise that just turns everything. I think people don't realize that they announced they were going to buy basically all credit in 2020. They barely bought any credit. In Silicon Valley Bank, when we were in this, like all the deposits are going to leave the banking system and deposits are really important to the leverage of the system. If they go into money market funds, then the leverage is

just going down like a tire, losing its air. So what they did is they just created a facility. And just by creating a facility, everything kind of slowed down. The problem in the treasury market that people have to realize is two things have happened that have led to this basis trade side. And I think it's important for people because they're going to read more about it. The basis trade started to come into play once Dodd-Frank and Volcker kind of prevented the banks from expanding their balance sheet. So hedge funds took in that risk. A basis trade at the end of the day, think of it as LTCM. It's an arbitrage trade. You're trying to buy cash bonds and sell futures against it where you have very little risk. So the only time you really get hurt is

where cash bonds start to underperform futures and then people have to unwind the trade. The other event that occurred was after 2020. So in 2020, that's when our debt really blew up dramatically. So as a percentage of a benchmark for the bond market, so the bond market has its benchmark just like the s p 500 we talk about the concentration of the mag 7 in the s p well the concentration in bond markets is now u.s debt they've crowded out the private sector there's not as much corporate debt there's more treasury debt so what that means is when bond funds want to outperform the market they use futures to represent their treasury it gives them more leverage they can go buy some credit and some higher yielding things and so you end up with

this push from the bond funds keeping futures above fair value and then the hedge funds come in to buy cash bonds underneath it. The reason that's important is when you get this much volatility, two things happen. One is it gets harder to hold the trade. But the other thing that has happened, and I think this is what always goes on that people don't realize, we were at peak gross leverage at the end of last year on the optimism of the new government coming in. Not only has vol gone higher, but liquidity is non-existent. And so when you have people with a lot of positions, no liquidity, and a lot of vol, every day they're forcing them out of their positions, but there's no way to get out. So someone's always getting tapped on the shoulder.

And as the Bank of England put out in their financial stability report this week, prime brokers are talking about extreme margin calls that have happened. And everyone's looking for the hedge fund. It's not a hedge fund. It's just this constant domino thing, just like the subprime turned eventually into Bear Stearns and Lehman. Retail was buying, I think middle of last week um which was pretty interesting to me because it almost seems like they timed the bottom or close to it now it helps if the president united states puts out an all call and says you know good time to buy and three hours later decides that he's gonna let the market rip but um i think it was the friday uh before that um there was very heavy buying from retail

the smart money are they too smart like are the institutions like they're overthinking it they're looking at data they're doing all this stuff and retail who historically i think wall street kind of looks down on and says hey it's like they're not that smart that you know they're uh very undisciplined they don't have the data whatever do they actually know something that wall street doesn't which is uh the market's going to go up forever and so buy the dip like it does feel like that is there you know that's the vibe right is like oh big drop buy yep whereas wall street is they're trying to time the bottom they're on levering they're you know they have a lot more complexity they're dealing with in the bad times it's just harder for them to actually act when

like blood in the streets so wall street has two major issues to make this clear to people who don't follow hedge funds that closely so they actually have two different groups which force them in times like this to be not taking risk number one is their investors so some of the hedge funds do have longer term lockups the bigger ones but most of them they've got quarterly liquidity sometimes monthly liquidity so if they post it down 20 their investors pull their money they're losing money that way the other side is almost all hedge funds use leverage so that means they borrowed money so they're the people that they borrowed money from which are the prime brokers if they hit a drawdown of some magnitude they start changing the margin requirements and

they start asking for cash so wall street actually has an embedded side there that prevents them from going through it plus they're paid on performance in a formula retail just like in the crypto world they can buy oh it went down more okay i'll buy a little more and that is a mentality that has proven to work because the stock market as i wrote in this it it makes new highs fairly often i mean it's up 80 plus percent of the years so maybe that'll change maybe the next 10 years stock market won't be up um retail has seen that this seems to be a rigged game and if i'm gonna be debased. My advantage is when things get really bad and I know you're going to print again, I need to be buying more. And so I think that's what retail just realizes. It's worked for them

for a long time and they trade kind of like the crypto people do. It reminds me of that. And I think they're the same people. So when we talk about retail, the zero date options that are traded, those are not baby boomers. They're not trading zero date options. This is a trading world. This is a gambling world. As I talked about, there's more money in personal consumption expenditures on gambling in this country right now than new cars purchased. So this is a different world than it was 15 years ago, 20 years ago. So I think retail is going to continue to be there to buy. They'll sell some days and then they'll turn right back in and start buying again. When we look at U.S.-China relations, it feels like Trump can't back down because his base will

um not be excited president xi can't back down because he'll lose face in china you have two men who their entire thing is strength posturing abrasiveness towards each other to a degree who blinks first or how does how do we get past the impasse is there a third party that shows up and says okay children let me figure out you know you two countries that don't seem to be able to get along i'll play referee is there some showdown we get a you know we get a photo op um i think the last time that trump was in a room with president xi he told the photographer uh get our good side so we look thin um you know like what do you expect to happen here so let's use an analogy you either believe china and the u.s are married separated or divorced okay okay i would say at

this point they're divorced all right so the reason they have to still get together is because they still have kids together meaning there's no way to separate globalization so if you believe i want to i believe in national capitalism now not global capitalism which is what we're going through. Um, every country is going to focus on their own domestic situation. So divorced parents eventually have to deal together. You don't know what's going on behind the scenes, but they eventually have to deal with it for the betterment of the kids. And that's what I believe is going to happen. I don't think either one of them is going to give in, but I think somehow within there, they'll both be able to claim victory on their own to their, you know, national.

That almost feels like that's the point, right? Is if you can claim victory, even if you don't win the claiming of the victory is more important than the winning because you know in a weird way like the administration they did drop the tariffs they did go to the pause but they sure came out and they were like we're winning yeah right and so um i'm going to give away one of their secrets uh there's a documentary uh excuse me it's a fictionalized documentary but um it's called The Apprentice. Highly suggest everyone go watch this. It is about Roy Cohen, who was a lawyer in New York City, who was the mentor to Donald Trump. And so Trump's in it, but he has three rules. Only two of them, I remember. The first one is attack, attack, attack. And number two is

always claim victory. And having watched that, I was like, oh, everyone's going back and like reading the art of the deal. They're trying to like get in this guy's head and figure it out, whatever that doc like uh that movie literally was the last four months or four weeks yeah i so i think we're on the same page then and for everyone watching listening unfortunately there's at this point with how bad the situation's gotten it either ends with no deal but tons of printing by every country in the world because when you go nationalist and you don't depend on globalism then what the u.s is forcing every country to do is to have a bigger fiscal deficit so we have a fiscal deficit we have a debt to gdp problem and

we have a trade deficit so we're just spreading this around the globe and saying fine if we're going to have a trade deficit you guys are all going to have to have fiscal deficits because we're just this trade's going to slow down and we can't have a depression so we're just going to print money i think it's a combination of all that and i think china and the us have to come to some kind of an agreement that is basically aligning themselves that over the next five years this is what's going to happen one of the most interesting things about this week so far is that you have a debate from people including i i've noticed um a bunch of people in the crypto world are talking about well when china devalues this is huge for china hasn't devalued and i think

this is a very this is the interesting point in the plan you have dollar weakening but not against china and i think it's because where china's situation is remember it was only six months ago that everyone in the world was worried that they couldn't get out of their deflation problem just i mean they were doing some stuff in september of last year and everyone he had tepper on tv saying buy all china and then everyone's fading it so we've kind of forgotten that china has a debt deflation situation and a lot of their debt unfortunately for them is in dollars so you end up especially in the property sector so you end up in a situation where I think this is why the US is pressing so hard because they think China's on the weak side.

China's saying we have other things on the other side, which they do about us. I think eventually it just comes to a meeting and they both claim victory. When we think about that global capital stack, if you get more of fragmentation, you get kind of domestic focus. Can Bitcoin become the thing that people use for bilateral trade i i i mean there's already like i don't want i don't want your one or pesos or whatever right like let's just use the the third party thing that no one controls and i think it'll be happening more and more i think there's already unconfirmed stories that it is happening i do think it's going to happen i think it'll be gradual again i said it last week i'll say it again this is the year for me regardless of what's happened right

now of the network effects for the digital economy and if anything what this last three weeks have shown the globe you better be coming up with a new way to exchange things in something that everybody believes in this is the other part about the reserve currency commodities are settled in dollars like we all of these things have to change if people don't trust the u.s dollar and it's falling right now with bonds going and stocks going. This is an emerging market problem. You don't see this type of stuff. This is the kind of thing that it accelerates and it goes. I don't know if the market falls again today, and we're doing this in the morning of Friday, if it falls again today and we're down another 10%, there'll have to be conversations over the

weekend about how are we going to stop this from happening, and it will involve the Fed. we're that close to kind of the need to slow this process down because when you get to this point bitcoin is benefiting and i'll just say it to everyone again do not look for bitcoin to go up at times like this gold makes sense to me because it is the accepted bigger asset by the globe this is the new kid in town the new kid in town should just be outperforming the fiat system which it's obviously doing versus all currencies but in particular versus dollar right now global liquidity is going up because the debt of the world is predominantly in dollars so global debt is getting better liquidity measures are all going through the roof and bitcoin will be four to

eight weeks four to ten weeks later and that's what i think it will be is you'll look back eight weeks and you'll have regretted when it was 82 and you're like oh my god i can't believe i didn't see they were going to print to stop this thing they do it every single time and now it's at 120 and i didn't get in what do you think it will take for the ai conversation to start to enter into this economic stuff. And the reason I say that is we know that inflation is coming down. We know AI is a deflationary technology.

We know that there's a lot of capital being invested there. It feels like that's a very real trend. It's not hype. These technologies are being used on a day-to-day basis. People realize it's going to be a part of their workflows.

But I don't hear a lot of people right now talking about that as having an impact in the trade wars and stuff. And part of maybe where I get the most interested is I've been talking to a lot of people manufacturing industrial businesses and i think that the general view is that all the manufacturing that happens outside the united states is sweatshops with people like you know hunched over

you know literally sewing a t-shirt together um and in the united states we don't make anything which both are untrue and the us make a lot of stuff everything from reusable rockets pharmaceuticals and everything in between but also these factories and other places are technology factories and so humanoid robots and ai and all this stuff feels like that's the battleground like i said to a friend i actually don't think this is a trade war it's a technology war between the us and china moving forward do you agree with that to some degree i do again this fits in with the um the race towards agi towards quantum computing and towards this whole thing if you can basically make everything for next to zero then you can sell it around the globe um and this is

one of the things i don't know if we talked about it last week or not but uh one of the scary propositions on the ai side that people don't talk about that much which again fits back into the blockchain if china wanted to tomorrow now again what what happened this week was an attempt to put a blockade around china so if donald trump is successful and everyone would be like i don't want to deal with china i'd rather deal with the u.s okay well he kind of put everybody in that position. But the reality is, if China wanted to say, hey, all your windows, we just replicated it and we're selling it for $5 as opposed to what we all have to pay for it. AI allows you to copy everything. They copied open AI and they went through, like everything now with AI allows you

to copy everything. So it's not just deep fakes. It's the fact that all code is now vulnerable to AI. So embedded in there is absolutely an acknowledgement between the two countries on this ip side that we're pissed about the ip side china gets to use and say oh you don't like it now there's rules now if there's no more wto and there's no more rules then the whole ip thing is gone so we'll just copy everything you have so embedded in there is absolutely a technology where there's no question plus you have the taiwan situation which makes 90 of all the advanced chips that are necessary for everything uh which obviously they're sitting right out so there's no doubt it is part of this. I just, the AI thing from an investment standpoint fits in the exact

same conversation as Bitcoin. To invest in AI right now, you have to believe there's a future in the economy. There's no future in the economy when the VIX is at 50 and treasury yields are going up. So right now, no one's really focused on talking about the future, but there's AI advancements every week. And if you just go in this week, when I'm doing my YouTube video tomorrow, I already have seven slides on what was announced in China and the U.S. on AI advancements this week. Nobody cares about it right now. Before I let you go, give me hope. Give me the light at the end of the tunnel.

What is the best case scenario from where we are? What is the thing that you're excited about or you're saying, all the fear, all the concern, all the chaos and uncertainty, calm down. Here's a path. Everyone follow me. Let's go down this path. uh the best thing i can tell you and this has been proven over my entire 30 year career how do you have 30 year career if you're on 21 it's crazy go ahead keep going crisis is the only thing that brings government to realize that they have to do something

so when you're in a battle um the only thing that brings people to the table is a crisis And this week has entered the crisis world for, I think, the entire world. It's very obvious that the dollar falling, stocks falling and yields going higher, bonds falling in what has been the safest investment in the world and where a lot of investors have their money. Foreign investors own 30, 40 percent of corporate bonds. If they sold all their corporate bonds, guess what? a lot of businesses are going out unless the Fed comes in and they do what they did in 2020 and they agree to buy credit. So on the one side is you need a crisis to get everyone to kind of come together to talk about it. I prefer this one because it's more controllable if the end result

is everyone working together. And that's what a crisis does. I don't think they're coming out of this as friends. I don't think this is coming out. I think the global order has been reset. we're just pushing everyone into it and that's why i said last week when stocks fall 10 in two days and you go back and look that since world war ii that's only happened four times and each one of those is in the history books meaning the great financial crisis covid and 1987 we're kind of at that point so i think that's the hope is that the crisis will bring everyone together and in that crisis who are the important players to pay attention to because one of the things i think i've noticed there's a lot of people going on tv talking from the administration to me it feels

like trump has been talking with an eye towards the negotiations besant has been talking with an eye towards the market which isn't surprising but one is that true and then two is there anybody else that you're really paying attention to like this is where the signal is so until monday and the reason i wrote what i wrote on monday is there was a political story that came out that's become more of a national story now in Wall Street Journal covered as well, that Besant flew to Mar-a-Lago on Sunday. The reason that was important to me is because the markets had become dysfunctional. When you have 10% in two days, you're at a different story. We're more dysfunctional today, even though the stock market is up for the week as we sit here. And that's

because bond yields are higher. So I wrote in my sub stack that Besant is obviously getting talked to from Bill Ackman, from Druckenmiller. Druckenmiller tweeted for the fifth time in his life like you know we're at a stage where besant who knows all these people they're like this is blowing up what do you what is the plan at this point so at the same time that besant kind of obviously is moving up we're hearing less from navarro and less from howard lutnick i think are you saying that there was so much economic pain that we forced druck to tweet yeah i i think you kind of started that too because i retweeted you putting his interview which was a great interview and all of a sudden he had to put something out there because people

like I don't agree with more than 10% tariffs. So yes, it took a while to get him out there, but that means we're at a crisis situation. And I mean, this starts to get funny to me because when you see Navarro and Letnick go down, Elon Musk and Navarro are in a fight on X. Well, they call him Peter Retardio, right? Is that the name, right?

And it started over the weekend. And then a car assembler. I mean, one thing that I do think is actually, people are going to focus on the exact situation whatever here is one thing that um i took away from that the like terminally online people are way better at the shit talking on the internet obviously than the people who aren't yeah and so there's like holding back of like navarro was like he's a car assembler or whatever like he's taking a shot but he's doing it like a politically appropriate way you can't fight with a man who is the wealthiest guy in the world he's still

willing to call you peter retarded right like like it's over like there is no competition there and i kind of feel like that is the same thing that's happening on a global scale where like we're just now willing to say things or like do things that maybe previous presidents they would have gotten towards the same thing but they would have said in a different way yep but trump will just bluntly say something and it kind of cuts to the heart and it feel like other world leaders are like oh i can't play that game like that's not my style that's not how i do that you know what i mean like it's a very interesting dynamic the communication style is so uh advantageous to america even though a lot of americans don't like it yep because it basically undercuts you

know what what other people are willing to do yeah and that's why i i made i made a reference to um the joker by heath ledger with a line in there about i think to actually get to this point this quickly it needs to be crazy i just i don't i don't think if you want to get this done in as short amount of time as they do i think the only way to do this is to make it as crazy as possible so when elon musk is part of the is tweeting against peter navarro and it starts on sunday and it just escalates and i'm sure a lot of people watching it's like was that going on behind the scenes like they're not paying attention because stocks are down everything's falling there is definitely chaos that's been there but i think the chaos will get us to the

point where it brings the crisis to a head much faster caroline levitt had my favorite quote i now start doing quote of the week like in my head and my quote of the week was not the peter ritardio or any of this stuff right it was caroline levitt was asked um in the uh press briefing or whatever um did you see this happened what do you think are you you know uh the advisors to the president are fighting and uh she very quickly shot back and said boys will be boys and we will let them fight it out and i was like oh okay this is like this is a show right and the directors of the show have displayed it for all of us and we can't look away it is a slow car crash that uh we can't look away from have you seen the movie miracle about the ice hockey yeah if you remember

in the very early stages and whether this actually happened or not um to settle old scores between the boston kids and the minnesota kids they got into a fight and her brooks let them fight it out that's kind of what she was saying there is let's just to get to the end let them fight let them go through this this is all part of the process and we'll be stronger coming out of this and that's what i'll say as an optimistic note is the system has to change when you change anything in life it is not easy whether it's a job whether it's relationship anything this is not going to be fun But we do have a printing press, which allows us to go in. What everyone needs to remember is from an investment standpoint, the second that the

Fed does anything to help the bond market, which has to come because it can't get this order. It hurts everything. And Trump doesn't want that. It's going to lead to the beginning of the new system. And whether it bottoms that day or in a week, we're getting closer to that day every single day. I couldn't agree more.

Where can we send people to read what you're putting out and also watch on YouTube? look for me under viscer labs at all places you can find but definitely uh the sub stack thing has been growing and youtube every saturday uh i i put something together and i put it out on sunday and if you're trying to learn about the specifics other than listening to us here i try to give you actually where you can go find the written work and everything else i think it's excellent thank you for putting it together and we'll do this again next week thanks anthony We'll be right back.