The Pomp Podcast - #1575 Alessandro Palombo | How to Buy EU Citizenship with Bitcoin

Episode Date: July 17, 2025

Alessandro Palombo is the Co-Founder and CEO of Bitizenship. They allow people anywhere in the world to get a second citizenship in Europe and to get bitcoin exposure while doing it. In this conversation we talk about how it works, why people are doing it, what the rules are, how to make money with the bitcoin exposure, and what countries are saying, and what he is excited out moving forward.========================Core is the leading Bitcoin scaling solution, enabling you to lock in yield by locking up your Bitcoin. Simply lock it on the Bitcoin blockchain to secure the Core network, and get rewards. No bridging. No lending. Just holding. Still your keys. Still your coins. Now your yield. Start at https://stake.coredao.org/pomp========================Bitwise is one of the largest and fastest-growing crypto asset managers. As of December 31, 2021, the company managed over $1.3 billion across an expanding suite of investment solutions, which include the world's largest crypto index fund and other innovative products spanning Bitcoin, Ethereum, DeFi, and crypto equities. Whether you’re an individual, advisor, or institution, Bitwise provides intelligent access to crypto with your unique circumstances in mind. Visit www.bitwiseinvestments.com to learn more. Certain of the Bitwise investment products may be subject to the extreme risks associated with investing in crypto assets. Visit www.bitwiseinvestments.com/disclosures/ to learn more.========================Polkadot is a scalable, secure, and decentralized blockchain technology aimed at creating Web3. Created by Gavin Wood, co-founder of Ethereum, Polkadot empowers users to build decentralized applications with ease. Backed by industry leaders, making it a preferred choice for big names, Polkadot stands out as a leading choice for investors seeking a reliable, future-proof solution in the growing world of Web3 technology. Learn more at https://polkadot.com/.=======================Pomp writes a daily letter to over 265,000+ investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy-to-understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://pomp.substack.com/=======================View 10k+ open startup jobs:⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠https://dreamstartupjob.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠Enroll in my Crypto Academy: https://www.thecryptoacademy.io/

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. what's up everyone this is anthony pompliano many of you know me as pomp you're listening to the pomp podcast which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them

for hours while i ask questions in an effort to learn so it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform watch episodes on youtube and tell your friends and family about the podcast my goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Are you a

Bitcoiner and do you want a second citizenship? Well, oh boy, do I have a special treat for you today. I'm joined by Alessandro Palumbo. He's the co-founder and CEO of Bitizenship. They simply allow people from anywhere in the world to get a second citizenship in Europe and to get Bitcoin exposure while they're doing it. In this conversation, we talk about how it works, why people are doing it, who's doing it, what the rules are, how can you actually make money with the Bitcoin exposure. And then we even talk about what are the countries where you can actually get the citizenship? What does it allow you to do all throughout Europe? This conversation is fascinating and it goes back and reinforces the theme that now people live in

a global digital world. They want to have options. They want to be able to move around the world with much, much more freedom and Bitcoin and a second citizenship getting put together. That's the type of stuff that people who watch this show, they like. So this conversation is for you. Here's my latest conversation with Alessandro Palumbo. All right, Alessandro, I thought a great place to start this conversation is you're telling me that I can buy Bitcoin and then another country will give me citizenship so I can have like dual citizenship or something. How the heck does this work?

Well, we created the Bitcoin ecosystem Golden Visa Fund in Portugal. So this means that you can invest in the fund. The fund invests in a Bitcoin-aligned company. So this company is a Portuguese company running in Portugal. We are based there and the company acquires exposure to Bitcoin.

So when we created this model one year ago, it was a complete innovation. We worked successfully with dozens of investors so far. And yeah, so that's why the name of this company, Bidizenship, Bitcoin Citizenship. All right, so let me make sure I get this right. So if I'm an American or anywhere else in the world and I say, okay, I want Portuguese citizenship,

Portuguese has a program where if I invest how much money? 500,000 euro, half a million. So 500,000 euro, if I invest that somewhere in Portugal, there's certain rules, then I can get the citizenship. But if I'm a Bitcoiner, I don't want to buy real estate or I don't want to buy something. want to buy Bitcoin, you guys basically created a fund that people invest in, that fund then invest in a company, that company buys the Bitcoin. So it's a way to kind of use the rules to your

advantage to get the Bitcoin exposure and get a citizenship out of it as well. Exactly. In substance, yes. That's clever. Thank you so much. We had prior experience with Golden Visa programs. And in our view, The problem is always that, you know, you can find investment opportunities, but not aligned for Bitcoiners, for people who, you know, adhere to this movement. And we created the solution for, actually, this was initially for our friends, because we believe that, you know, Portugal is betting on innovation.

We wanted to also help the local Bitcoin ecosystem to grow. And this solution worked very well. And the unique thing is that if you want to get a European citizenship right now, only Portugal allows you to do it without having to move there. So you invest the alpha million in this one. So anywhere else in Europe, you'd have to move to wherever it is. Okay. And if I get the Portuguese citizenship, I can go anywhere in the European Union? A hundred percent. That's the real power because Europe in the end is 27 different countries. But once you're citizen in one of those, you can settle, you can get healthcare education

everywhere. You and your kids. Okay. So how do I get my money back? How does that work? So this specific fund, the number one week credit is a closed-ended fund. So the remaining duration is seven years. So ideally, you always need to maintain the investment for the five years for the Golden Muses purposes, for actually getting to the right to citizenship, and one year after. So you will get back your capital and hopefully profits at the end of the fund. Right now, it's seven years. Got it.

And so the program itself requires that the money stays in the country for at least five years. Correct. Yeah. So people can't just put it in and take it right back out. Makes sense. right? And it's fair for the country because in the end, there is an operating company in Portugal, it's active in Portugal, we pay taxes in Portugal, and that's the balance. And in my view,

the Portuguese program, along all the European programs in the end, has been probably the most thoughtful in terms of how they created it. So it's, in our view, the most competitive. Okay. Now, who are the types of people who are doing this? Are these people who want to move to Portugal and get citizenship for some sketchy reason? Are these business people? Are they families? They are all business people with families. And most of them, we are quite proud to have onboarded quite successful entrepreneurs. Most of them very well known also. Of course, for privacy reasons, we can't disclose their name, but very an interesting set of individuals. They want a plan B. So the primary objective is I want to get

a plan B for my family because in the end, you don't know how the world will be in 20 years, right? Or even in 10 or sometimes even in five. So getting a plan B with Europe means to get get an exposure to 27 different countries. And it makes sense. And we have investors from literally all around the world, a lot of Americans, of course, British, Indians, Brazilians, Mexicans, Chinese, everywhere. Everyone. Man, that's crazy.

All right. Now you did it in Portugal. It's working. You guys are, you know, rocking and rolling, helping people get citizenship. But now, you know, you're Italian, I'm Italian. You're going to Italy, like a little homecoming for you, right? What is the Italy program? What are the differences or similarities to the Portugal program?

So Italy is going to, we are launching Italy, it's 250,000 euros. So it's the half. You need to invest in a Bitcoin startup that we are creating. The important difference is that the Italian program requires for citizenship, you to live in the country for 10 years. So you need actually to move there. So if you want a citizenship, the Portuguese program, even independently from future changes, is and will remain the best. But if you instead want to get access to Italy and eventually to an education system for your kids or healthcare, and you want to get a Schengen essentially visa with which you

can travel across Europe, Italy, of course, it costs you half. And of course it carries on. I mean, I'm biased. I think you're biased. It's a great place where to. Now, if you move there, what does constitute moving? Do you have to stay for one month, half a year, a full year? say to play on the safe side half a year plus one day okay so you got to be there for at least half

the year yeah in italy no complaints right a lot of people would love to do that um but then you get to check the box you that for 10 years and you get the citizenship correct okay um what are the things that countries are doing to try to get you to come help them with this because i got to imagine that once they see people are doing it the reason why these countries have these programs is because they want people to use them right they don't create it just to sit there um and if you're bringing all of this money, investment, people, citizens, et cetera, to their country, I'm assuming that country starts saying, hey, hold on a second. Well, you went to Portugal and Italy.

Why don't you come here next? So that's an interesting question. So we have some conversations going around, especially with a strategic place. I hope they will unfold as fast as possible because our goal as a company, essentially, this is a kind of family business with high growth. And we have prior track record in this vertical. And it sounds easy, but to put this together, it's very complex. And our goal is to essentially enable Bitcoin-series ships.

That's why Bitcoin is a ship all around the world. So we would love to give optionality because in the end, I believe, I don't want to be the one telling you, hey, Portugal or Italy or another country, but I want to give you all the opportunities and then you choose. And in theory, Anthony, the thing is, I don't want to go too theoretical, but it's a good idea in general to get exposure to more than one country. So if you can, you need to stack your passports. It's like with Bitcoin.

And then what about, so Europe seems to be a focus. because you guys live there, right? You guys, Italian, et cetera. Could you do this in Asia? Could you do it in South or Central America? Could you do it in an African country? Like what are the other options? Right now, not really, not really,

because every country has its own nuances. And in order to have this model to work properly, at least we need to have the right legislative framework. And right now it's pretty tight. So we can do it confidently. Again, in Italy with its own nuances, because in this case, it's not going to be a fund. It's going to be a startup, a Bitcoin startup.

We could do it in another European country, but we believe it's not attractive. And pretty much it's, we check it out, of course, USA, Canada, Asian countries, Middle Eastern countries, but without eventually specific government approvals, it's not really feasible. You can do certain things, but it would be ultimately, in our view, not the best for the investors. And we want to ship only products that are critically built for success and hopefully to address at the best the needs.

So right now, no, but let's put it in these terms. We are constantly, every day, every week, checking out. And the day that there is a program that allows it, we will be there. And you'll be there. Yeah. What about the costs, right? So I'm assuming you guys got to make money somehow, right? It's business, capitalism.

Some people don't like capitalism, down to socialism, idiots, but capitalism. In terms of people put the Bitcoin in, what is the cost that you guys, how do you guys make money? So on the Portuguese fund, we run it with this logic of 1.5% annual management fee and 10% performance fee. So essentially, whenever the fund makes profits, essentially you take 90% and we keep 10%. Okay. And then in that fund, after the end of the seven years, can I get back Bitcoin or can I get back dollars? Dollars. Dollars. Okay. It's one of the effects of this legislation, But for the Italian product, this is a major news, because again, for the second time,

we are creating something that didn't exist worldwide. So the Italian startup will be able to accept Bitcoin, which means investment in kind when you want to invest in the startup, and we will be able to let you redeem in kind in Bitcoin. So for Portugal, no, it's fiat, unfortunately. For Italy, of course, there are different models legally and blah, blah, blah. But essentially, you can put and get back Bitcoin. That's very interesting. Interesting. So Portugal, no in-kind, but in Italy, you can do in-kind contributions and also in-kind redemptions as well. Correct. And we believe this is going to be fantastic. For a lot of Bitcoin friends,

you know, in the end, still now cashing out is a pain in the neck, right? For various reasons. In this case, we will be able to accept Bitcoin and give back Bitcoin. Yeah. Talk about like Bitcoin as a kind of a peaceful asset. Like one of the things that, when I think of a Bitcoin citizenship, it makes me think of a world that is uh less abrasive less chaotic less um zero sum you know you win i lose i win you lose um it feels like that's kind of what you guys are doing here right as you're saying like hey we kind of drew like these lines on maps and some for you know in some lenses like for good reason right a country isn't a country without a border on the other hand the ability for good actors to go and visit

do this stuff, right, should be easier. 100%. So I am a big believer in the concept of, in the end, even national borders in the next 20, 30 years should have less meaning. And these, of course, are very complex and politically, of course, very delicate and sensitive topic. But ultimately, I would like to put it in these terms. So without going too much philosophical, in the end, the whole concept of national states, et cetera, was developed in a different world, where we didn't have technology, we didn't have the internet, and so far and so on. Right now, to be very frank, in a global and internet-based economy, and when we have Bitcoin that is immediately accessible all around the world without

barriers, to be frank, the same concept of barriers, as I see it, is more an obstacle to the human, in general, potentiality and freedom, rather than being a means of safety. Because even right now, compared to 300 years ago, the necessity of physical safety for for society, societal members, you know, it has evolved. So yes, if you want to put it in these terms, it's correct. So we are quite proud to contribute to make borders for certain, you know, good, actually actors, less relevant. And in the geopolitical spectrum, I think of the next 20, 30 years with the AI, you

know, an AI-based economy, in my view, it's quite critical to get exposure to different jurisdictions. What do you think is like the biggest hurdles, all regulation and like legislation stuff these countries? If they would just create these programs, you guys could run wild across the world. The biggest challenge is regulatory and administrative planning from governments. Why? Because ultimately, all these legislations, even now, they're not built for Bitcoiners or for tech. So when you actually go into the details and you need to build the actual structure over the companies and make them work, it's very complex. I always say this because sometimes

you think of, well, there are the laws and then you can just interpret them and you can apply them for your product. That's one layer of complexity, but then they're in, I have a PhD in administrative law, so unfortunately I spent many years doing this stuff. The real layer of complexity in my view is the one below the general law. So when you go into the details of how the rules should be applied and which are the authorities to confer to, that's where the incredible complexity happens. And to be frank, the whole game of second citizenships and eventually residencies is based often on countries that are not necessarily so efficient. Otherwise, they wouldn't have an incentive to offer the deal. I mean, the US is trying to offer,

actually is offering a 5 million golden, right? Golden card. Gold card. Gold card. And they said that the other day, we already sold 25,000. If this was through, it would be amazing, right? But it's 5 million. So imagine other countries are selling selling residency by investment programs, RBIs for 500K, why do they do it? Eventually, they need to attract capital, they need to attract skills. Necessarily, they may be not the most efficient countries yet. So that's the real complexity for us, because when we need to deal with very convoluted

systems and making it running and satisfying the expectation with the investors, that's our real job. So essentially, we are an intermediate layer between the huge complexities and sometimes the nonsense generated by, I would say, legacy systems and the needs of modern investors. Is it frustrating? That's a great question. It is, but at the same time, can I tell you more? It's part of our mission, so we do it with pleasure, because someone has to do the hard work. And in the end, also, given my background, my private track record and so far and so on, so in general, this is the vertical we can express as a team at best our skills and where we can be

the most competitive. So to be frank, we do it with pleasure, but yes, it's extremely frustrating because sometimes when you operate in tech and you have worked in startups and so far and so on, you want to immediately generate an exponential value. And sometimes, of course, in this field, it takes time. But sometimes if you want to run a marathon, you need to put the work, right? You can go and run a marathon the day after. So we like to see this in these terms. Yeah. You mentioned your background helping set you up to do this. Explain a little bit more. Yeah. So I started my career as a lawyer. I got a PhD in public law. I did some academic studies and I spent 10 years in running and founding actually startups in the sovereignty field.

I also advised the government's institutions on matters eventually around specifically tech and specifically blockchain. I did a few things, but most importantly, I mean, Recently, I developed my expertise into global living and global citizenship, in this case, via online content creation. I generated 240 plus million impressions organically on X in less than 12 months. So I would say I developed my own skill set in the last 10, 12 years, precisely along these topics. Because only when you effectively work with institutions, even in order to enable them to adopt a new legislation on blockchain or Bitcoin, you understand precisely how they operate.

So that's essentially the track record that I personally brought on the table. And my wife, actually, she already had a golden visa fund in Portugal, a successful one, in real estate. Before real estate became not anymore... Before 2023, you could have invested in real estate and... Oh, you can't do that anymore? No. Oh, so you used to be able to invest in real estate and then get the citizenship, but now you can't invest in real estate. Correct. So why did they take that out?

That's interesting. So as you... Today's episode is brought to you by Core. You can earn yield on your Bitcoin by just holding your Bitcoin. It's simple. Core, the leading Bitcoin scaling solution will reward you for not selling your Bitcoin.

It's not magic. Here's how it works. Core is a protocol secured by elected validators. You can help elect validators and secure the network by simply locking up your Bitcoin on the Bitcoin blockchain. No bridging, no lending,

and just holding when your validator secures core it earns rewards fueled by network activity and passes them back to you as yield with a minimum lockup of just one day when the time lock ends you get your bitcoin back untouched steal your keys steal your coins now your yield for even higher rates state core alongside your bitcoin and multiply your yield and if you want to see what your bitcoin is securing join millions of others in exploring the largest bitcoin defi ecosystem. There are over 100 live apps in the network and the deepest liquidity in all of Bitcoin DeFi. Get off zero and start earning yield on even just 1% of your Bitcoin by going to stake.cordow.org slash pomp. Again, that's stake.cordow.org slash pomp, or go click the link

in the description. It's no secret that Bitcoin ETFs have taken Wall Street by storm. With over $35 billion in assets in just one year, it's become the most successful ETF launch in history. My partner Bitwise is the first and only Bitcoin ETF provider to openly publish its Bitcoin wallet addresses, allowing anyone to verify the fund's holdings. I believe this level of transparency is exactly the kind of innovation that only crypto makes possible. Bitwise is also the only ETF issuer that is a crypto specialist asset manager, meaning their team solely focuses on Bitcoin and they have the research, education and support to help investors navigate the space with confidence all of that is great but what i love most about bitwise is probably their commitment

to developers bitwise donates 10 of their etfs profits to bitcoin open source developers bitcoin developers are the unsung heroes working tirelessly to maintain improve and innovate the blockchain their efforts ensure that bitcoin remains true to its promise as a decentralized system that is built to last go to bitwisepomp.com to learn more about their etf and other services Once again, that's bitwisepomp.com. Bitwise P-O-M-P dot com. As always, remember investing is risky and carefully consider the extreme risks associated with crypto before you invest. today's episode is brought to you by express vpn how did you choose which internet service provider that you use well the sad thing is most of us have very little choice because isps operate like monopolies in the regions that they serve they then use this monopoly power to take advantage

of customers data caps bandwidth throttling the list goes on but worst of all isps have the ability to keep a log of every single website you visit and so can a ton of other third parties unless of course you use ExpressVPN. Look, I thought incognito mode actually meant something until I learned the real hard truth. Your ISP is still watching every move you make online. Your mobile carrier, same thing. And don't even get me started on public Wi-Fi. The person running that network can see everything that you are doing. But ExpressVPN solves this problem by creating an encrypted tunnel for all of your internet traffic. So these third parties see absolutely nothing, zero, zilch. What makes ExpressVPN stand out from the competition?

For starters, it hides your real IP address, which is basically your digital fingerprint that websites and trackers use to follow you around. Beyond that, it's ridiculously easy to use. I'm talking one-click protection that even your grandparents could figure out. Plus, it works on everything. Your iPhone, your MacBook, your Android tablet. You install it once, and you're protected everywhere. The fact that it's the top-rated VPN according to CNET and The Verge just confirms what I already know. I use ExpressVPN whenever I'm on public Wi-Fi or traveling.

For me, online privacy isn't optional. Too much of my business happens online to leave it unprotected. Protect your online privacy today by visiting expressvpn.com slash pump. That's expressvpn.com slash pump. And you can get an extra four months free. E-X-P-R-E-S-S-V-P-N.com slash pump. Go check them out today. This is one of the examples of how fast sometimes the window of opportunity,

you know, gets reduced because of political concerns. So the specific political concern in Portugal was based on a skyrocketing real estate market. And sometimes you think of Bitcoin, but you haven't seen the price of real estate in Portugal. That's the price you don't want to go up. Unless you own it already since 2008, because objectively that showed us how crazy can a market be. And the multiplier eventually is almost as high as Bitcoin because real estate properties sometimes did up to eight X in nine years. So the same apartment, same property. I would say the legitimate concern politically was, okay, but we are pricing out from real estate,

our own people, especially because the purchasing power of Portuguese is not among the highest. That makes sense though. That makes sense. The unfortunate thing is that they realized after this legislative change that in the end, it was not because of 165, 300 annual investors per year coming via the Golden Visa program to impact on the overall market. So if you look at the statistics, Portugal specifically had different issues. Essentially, the capacity of building new housing since 2008 hasn't grown at all. So the demand of real estate went a bit up and the supply didn't catch up. So this was the real cause but politically they think they thought oh these default foreigners are taking our housing

right so this was the logic i mean that's what's going on in america right now there's a lot of people who think that that's a huge problem right whether it is or not it's politically that's become a topic and i can understand them because you know sometimes it's not easy so i'm not trying to point finger and say hi you're being guilty i am thankful for of the opportunity and i'm thankful to portugal specifically besides because we had a with my wife a producer company real estate for many years. We lived there, but also because objectively, they created the most thoughtful program because you literally can invest. You bring value in the country and you don't need to move. So this is, in my view, the best balance because you still need

to learn Portuguese a bit. You still need to do some online classes. You still need to spend a few days every two years in the country. So there is a balance, but at the same time, they let you be free. So if you want to remain in New York, you can do it. So this has been how the Portuguese story went. And if I can expand on this point, I don't know if you perhaps followed, but maybe this is a marginal topic in the grand scheme of things. But for example, one of the best programs was the Maltese program in Europe. So prior, actually this April of 2025,

the European Court of Justice essentially axed the program. So the point I'm trying to share with you is this entire world of second citizenship is hyper volatile, potentially more than Bitcoin, which means today you may opt in in Portugal with these terms. Tomorrow, maybe not. But the people who bought the real estate, they were already citizens, so they don't get the citizenship taken away. It's just that new people couldn't use the real estate, right? This is a general rule. So once you invest, you're lucky in your vested interest. And

especially in Europe, we have a very solid set of constitutional rights that the government can't remove you. So once you invest, you're good. And then they make people learn a little bit of Portuguese, a little bit. You need to either achieve a basic understanding and do an exam, an A2 level, or you need just to attend to online classes, I think around 120 hours. Yeah. So it's pretty interesting that to become a citizen, you have to assimilate to Portugal. I would say yes, with the right balance. Well, I'm just saying from an American perspective, that's a taboo. Nobody wants to talk about that everyone's like oh no everyone should just come do whatever they want no no

whatever right but it'd be like the equivalent would be like in america i was telling people who want to immigrate to america you have to learn english you have to go to online classes like that would be the news would be talking about that for months there's no way you can make people do that but other countries that's what they do right yeah absolutely this is essentially a requirement in every country also in italy also in greece and so far and so on so So the assimilation is one of the kind of cornerstones. Of course, there are different degrees. And in the Portuguese case, it's a moderate slash low moderate degree.

Got it. Okay. And then what are you most excited about moving forward? It seems like Bitcoin is going up a lot. That's good. People are excited about that. But also it looks like you're trying to figure out what other countries you can go to if you guys go and penetrate Italy.

I'm super excited, to be frank, of the Italian route. Why? Because we believe Portugal, even there will be soon some legislative changes, but we believe that Portugal will remain the sort of best option for Europe because you don't need to move there. So we believe that even in the medium term, the next five years, we have reasons to believe in a bit of, we know a bit of rumors from, you know, maybe which are going to be the political changes, the legislative changes.

We believe Portugal will remain the top one, but Italy, well, everyone I talk to of this program. It's very attractive, to be frank, very attractive. And you never know, maybe your son wants to go there and, I don't know, just study fashion in Milan. So I'm very excited about Italy. And we are also going to launch a third product in Portugal. So as I told you, you need to invest half a million in the fund for the residency and then citizenship pathway. So we are going to launch also a 200,000 euro donation for Portugal in Bitcoin. So you can donate in Bitcoin, and we are going to be the first ones offering 200 instead of 250. Of course, these are donations, so you lose the capital. And you may ask me,

why? If I can invest half a million, sometimes the entry point matters, and some people maybe prefer to say, okay, the entry point is lower, I just donate. So I don't believe this is going to for sure the primary on taxes right if i have bitcoin that i bought at a low price and it's appreciated a lot if i donate it i don't pay taxes on it and so uh it's a way to give away capital gains and get something in return that's great i i never all for all matters of american taxing i'm always a bit confused but i this could be oh don't worry americans we're very well versed in taxes our government's constantly you know trying to figure out all these different ways you ever heard of congestion tax you know what that is no in europe they have it but now we have

it in america is the congestion taxes uh when you drive below a certain street here in new york below 59th street they tax you oh my oh yeah from one side of town to the other side of town say why you do that they say because we want to prevent congestion okay doesn't really too much make sense but but i have to say new york is amazing energy i will definitely be here because as i was telling you before you know you need places with energy for running businesses and people want to build organically things, but on the other side, it's very expensive. I paid for a sandwich, essentially 15 bucks in Portugal. That's cheap. Yeah, but it was like in Portugal you get with three. So I joked, actually,

I'm going to post a joke online saying, if you manage to work remotely from Portugal in New York, and just with the money you save, if you invest in Bitcoin or ETF, you're going to retire in five 100%. Seriously. Uber, yesterday, we wanted to get you an Uber here, it was like $160, it was raining, so there was eventually a- Yeah. With the surge pricing and everything.

For sure. In general, it's fair because it's a market, but on the other hand, there could be places where your money can buy much more. Well, the joke in New York, which is a very sad joke, is every time you walk outside of your apartment, $100. Somehow, no matter where you go, what you do, right? Go to the grocery store, $100. Get in the Uber, go somewhere to eat, $100.

Like go to the office somehow, $100. We have a similar joke, you know, which essentially says, you know, they're going to tax also the hair, the air, you brief, right? 100%. If they can figure out how to do that here in America, they will 100% do it, right? They just haven't figured it out yet. So don't give them any ideas. All right.

How do people find the product, find you, learn more about this and potentially participate? Of course. So you can go online on bdizenship.com. It's like citizenship, but with a B, so it's Bitcoin citizenship, bdizenship.com. You can apply. We will, you know, our team will contact you, uh, within 24 hours. Uh, I'm very much, um, active online. If you want to follow. Yeah, you guys are working. I see you online. I try to do my best. I mean, it's never enough. We're trying to, to put more, more energy. My, my ex-account is DiAlePalombo. And I also write a Substack newsletter every,

every actually Saturday on Global Living, Global Citizenship. I try to share because I lived across seven different countries. I built businesses regulated and non-regulated in major jurisdictions. So I realized that a lot of friends asking me quite advice about structuring. So I try to give hopefully valuable insights about relocation, tax optimization structures. And I write these every Saturday. So if you want to follow me on Substack, you will find me under Palombo, which is my surname, .sarstag.com. And yeah, we would love to be in touch with anyone interested. Also, if you are just thinking about relocating and getting into the Golden Visa program, our team will be able to give you hopefully the best overview. And right now,

Portugal, Italy, they are covered, but we will be soon in other countries as soon as the frameworks will allow it. Amazing. You're a lawyer, right? Qualified lawyer. That would be an amazing law from Palumbo and Pompliano, like, you know, let us know if you get hit by a car, we'll be there. Well, yeah. Actually, I think running a law firm in the States with the, you know, kind of, you know, how do you call it in English, but essentially the practice is when you get hit by a car, it's a good business. I mean, they sue for anything. Yeah. A hundred percent. If you drive down the street in like a lot of towns, you see like, uh, like injury lawyers, like crazy stuff. But that's one of the differences between Europe and the US, because here, even doing

advertising for law firms is allowed. In Italy, there are strong limitations. It's borderline legal. So you can't even buy the billboard, or you can't even say how many cases you want, but you should have been a lawyer, right? This was the initial trajectory. Everyone, when I was a kid, they used to say that I was going to be a lawyer, because I liked to argue with everyone. And I said, look, it's debating. You call it arguing, I call it debating. It's never, never too late. You know, what's funny is here in America, this is some alpha for people out there.

Historically, you weren't allowed to own part of a law firm if you weren't a lawyer. It makes sense. You got to be a lawyer or whatever. But they changed the rule in a couple of states where now you can own, I think, up to 49% of a law firm if you're not a lawyer. It happened the same in some European countries. And you can do these companies among lawyers and you can also people participating only with capital.

And yeah, to be frank, that makes sense because sometimes I'm a big believer. I don't see myself at any time becoming a lawyer, but I mean, practicing effectively. I'm not registered in any barista association and I don't, although I could by right, but I believe there is a lot of room of improvement on that side as well.

And partially, by the way, my companies, they always deal in one way or the other with legal regulatory issues because just zooming out, we are as a family and as a business, We're growing really fast as a business, but also my interest, and you can find it online or also with my other startup, maybe one day we can discuss about it. I really believe it's time to make a change on all governmental matters, because to be

frank, I think we are all frustrated a bit with governments. And to be frank, I don't think it's a matter of a particular government failing citizens. I think it's a matter of maybe all systems. In the end, we are using the same systems of 200 years ago. And I think in the next 50 years, there will be a major change on that side. Bitcoin is a major change. 100%. It's kind of a decentralized digital technology product that I think has forced a lot of people

to think a lot differently. And it's crazy if you think that the major probably obstacle to Bitcoin adoption was eventually an adversarial government stance, governmental stance. And with the Trump administration, like it or not, there has been an opening from the most important country in the world. And this changed all the spectrum for Bitcoin adoption. So right now, you know, better than me, but everyone in finance, you know, eventually until yesterday, literally a bit skeptical, they are all recommending 5% allocation plus.

So it's, the world is changing and sometimes money comes first and then government. Yeah, it's interesting. All right. So BitCitizenship, Bitizenship is the way to say it. All right. And it's just, what's the website again? www.bitizenship.com. BitCitizenship.com.

So if people probably search Bitcoin citizenship, you guys are number one, right? We hope so. We are trying to work at best on SEO, but for now, X or Twitter is... BitCitizenship. BitCitizenship. Right?

All right. So and on X. And on X, of course. Amazing. All right. Well, thank you for doing this. Thank you. Every time I talk to you,

I'm super excited about you guys just keep growing, which is obviously really fun and exciting too. Thank you so much. I appreciate it. All right. We'll do it again in the future. 100%. Thank you so much.

We'll be right back.