The Pomp Podcast - $180K Bitcoin In 2025? Here’s the Case | Chris Klein

Episode Date: October 20, 2025

Chris Klein is the Co-Founder & CEO of Bitcoin IRA. In this conversation, we discuss how retirement investing is changing in the digital era, what people are actually doing inside their retirement accounts, and how the wealthy use these tools to grow their wealth faster. We also dive into broader topics like patriotism in America, macro trends, and the roles of gold, silver, stocks, and bitcoin in today’s economy.======================Check out my NEW show for daily bite-sized breakdowns of the biggest stories in finance, technology, and politics: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://pompdesk.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠======================Bitlayer is taking Bitcoin beyond just a store of value. For the first time, you can put your Bitcoin to work, earning yield while staying true to its core principles of security and decentralization. Bitlayer is making Bitcoin DeFi a reality. Learn more at https://x.com/BitlayerLabs======================Bitizenship helps Bitcoin-forward investors gain EU residency and a path to Portuguese citizenship in five years while maintaining exposure to Bitcoin. Their regulated fund qualifies you for the Golden Visa through an operating company focused on Bitcoin-native innovation. Book a free strategy call at https://bitizenship.com/pomp.======================Xapo Bank, the world’s first fully licensed Bitcoin-enabled bank, offers military-grade security with an unmatched blend of physical and digital security, as well as pioneering regulatory oversight, so your funds are always protected. Beyond secure storage, they enable you to grow and use your Bitcoin. Earn daily interest in Bitcoin, spend with zero FX fees using a global card, and make instant payments via the Lightning Network for unrivalled access and convenience. Visit ⁠https://www.xapobank.com/pomp⁠ to join.======================Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro 1:51 - Benefit of bitcoin in retirement accounts3:52 - Can bitcoin get to $180,000 by end of 2025?8:43 - Government shutdown and market impact12:37 - Financial literacy and retirement gap15:36 - Crypto staking in IRAs and what customers are investing in 19:21 - How tokenization will impact IRAs and rise of retail 22:20 - What are “Forgotten 401ks?” 26:15 - Gold vs Bitcoin debate 29:35 - Patriotism and division in America 33:53 - Bitcoin as common ground37:20 - Bitcoin IRA promos

What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat

any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. There's this retail FOMO that happens and there's a price point where it hits. I thought we were going to see it last week when we touched $125, $126, when we broke new all-time highs. I think you get into that. It's a psychological $130, $135. And all of a sudden, you're off to the races to $150. And then from there, that's what the cycles do over time. And never forget, having happened and the impact of stuff, I think we will start seeing some supply constraint for sure by the end of the year.

What's going on, guys? Today, we've got a great episode with Chris Klein. He's the co-founder and COO of Bitcoin IRA. In this conversation, we talk about what is going on in retirement accounts, why you should have one, but then we get into some pretty interesting conversations. What are people doing in these retirement accounts? What are rich people doing to get richer that you can copy? On top of that, we start talking about things like, is patriotism still alive in America? What should you be thinking about macro events, gold, silver, Bitcoin stocks? We got it all covered. Chris is here. Lots of insights. I think you guys will really enjoy it. Here's my latest conversation with Chris Klein.

All right. I thought a great place to start the conversation is Bitcoin in people's retirement accounts. That used to be very controversial, very kind of contrarian. Now it's becoming much more popular. You guys are a big part of that. But also, I think the government now is becoming much more open to what can you put in your 401k? What can you put in your retirement account? The average American, I think, is very much saying to themselves, wait a second, I want exposure to alternative assets. I want exposure to Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies. I shouldn't be precluded because the government is being paternalistic and saying that for some reason they know better than I do what I should do with my money.

What's interesting to me is you were telling me before we started recording, during market sell-offs, the panic sellers in retirement accounts have pretty much completely disappeared. Explain more what's going on there. So I think when you're putting it into that retirement setting, you're thinking now decades. You're not thinking minutes, hours, or even weeks or months. You're thinking years. So if you're 40, you're going to start pulling this out in three, maybe four decades, maybe even hand it down to the next generation. So you're in that mentality of when in doubt, zoom out. So when something like last Friday happens, their natural inclination is, let's get some more.

This is a time to stack sats, right? And so we see over the years, you know, there's a lot of transaction volume of a billion dollars of transactions. It's actually really close to parity as far as buys and sells. But a lot of that is also people moving, taking profits from alts, rolling that over into Bitcoin for longer term holds and things like that. Now, when you see people putting Bitcoin in there, one of the things I always find fascinating is you said if you're 40, you're going to leave it in there for three or four decades. They can take it out earlier than that. So do people actually leave their assets in these kind of tax advantaged accounts even after they're able to take it out because they just want to keep compounding with the tax advantage? Yeah.

I mean, obviously, with a Roth, you can take it out tax free. We talked about that together before. with the traditional, you want to strategize it or you want to think through, okay, well, how much should I take out this year? If I'm still earning, you don't really want to be taking big chunks of money out of your retirement because it's income at the end of the day, and that'll increase your tax bill. So the goal is you take it out when you're not working anymore and you keep yourself in that lower 10 to 12% tax bracket. All right. Now you previously in an interview, I went deep in the rabbit hole of the internet content. You gave a price prediction of $180,000

for Bitcoin by the end of 2025. We're sitting today somewhere $115,000, give or take. Do you think that we can go from $115,000 to $180,000 in, let's call it, two months? I think so. And I did make that prediction in April when it was at $75,000. So I'm halfway there. So I don't look like a complete fool. But I think there's some things underneath. Obviously, this recent poll just proved to us that leverage is a dangerous drug, right? And and and it really kind of just collapsed some of these alt coins but as far as bitcoin i was impressed by the resilience it showed over the weekend normally when something like this happens on a friday by monday we're we're freaking out even worse because the market doesn't close it's

thinly traded it held pretty strong in the 115 zone it's dipping a little bit again this week it's soft i kind of think it's like the washing machine you know like that after it does the original clean and then it kind of soaks everything before it hits the spin cycle it's kind of like that moment where we're just we're going to be a little bit sideways for a bit but let's not forget there's still race to reserve happening all across the world it's not just the u.s here uh but all kinds of countries are trying to say okay i need to counterbalance my my overall balance sheet with some hard assets like crypto um as they've done with gold and oil before as a strategic reserve you you add that plus uh the treasuries the groups that are going basically

full tilt as a as a digital asset treasury company following in sailors footsteps that's another piece but then you and i both know we've been through enough cycles there's this retail fomo that happens and there's a price point where it hits i thought we were going to see it last week when we touched 125 126 when we broke new all-time highs i think you get into that one it's a psychological 130 135 and all of a sudden you're off to the races uh to 150 and then from there it's that's what the cycles do over time and never forget having happened and the impact of subs i think we will start seeing some supply constraint for sure by the end of the year you know what's was fascinating is um 110 120 125 you know all these different numbers uh it just feels you know

kind of milestone uh of importance it feels psychologically like hey we're making progress google search results for the word bitcoin or volume it's like a near five year low yeah it's very uh much a paradox between like so much noise online especially on x in this kind of echo chamber but then the google search results are showing no volumes how do you pair those two things together it's you know in being in the crypto business we notice it for sure and you a great word echo chamber right because we do i do all kinds of stuff on x now uh and and it's everybody's talking but where we is are the outside new entrants coming in and and really this is a we're in a somewhat of a paradox i was i was on nasdaq yesterday and we were talking about

so gold's at all-time highs silver's a little at all-time highs well not all-time highs but but it's soaring. Stocks are soaring. Bitcoin's up strong. When does it break? Where does it break? Is it a zero-sum game still? Will one of these fall off and the others will gobble up that capital? Or is it going to be a race to just even bigger capital? Because the thing we have to remember is part of why every asset class is inflated is we've pumped how much monetary supply into the system over the last few years, just like with real estate as well. So it's a difficult thing. You have to get in front of buyers in different places. And you have to really guys like you and I are out there pushing that education standard for folks looking

at it. I think you're seeing more crypto. The crypto Google search keyword is actually stronger than just Bitcoin. I think the concept of crypto overall has really taken, even though I know you and I are more Bitcoin bulls, has really taken over some of that attention. That's interesting. So you're seeing when you guys are doing your ad spend, like performance marketing stuff, or even where traffic's coming from, you actually see more people responding to the word crypto then you do the word bitcoin in particular coins too i mean we all know the xrp army is really strong it's if you're on x you know the xrp army's out there so particular assets as well uh and looking at that and then also etfs uh usually combine them with crypto etfs bitcoin etfs

people are still searching access for this vanguard just turned basically did a 180 back when the etfs came out they said no way we're traditional old school house this is not the space and now the former ceo yeah exactly the former exactly the former ceo and now they've changed course because the demand's there and if you got enough capital flight out of your uh your custodian or your trust then yeah you're gonna make you're gonna change course eventually but we do have everything's kind of paused this shutdown i think crypto guys went nuts with the shutdown they're like oh yeah the government's down this is why we're we're independents and we're libertarians and the bitcoin mentality but now there's this queue that's stacking up because the government

all the three-letter agencies aren't getting through the etf queues and all those things like we had all this great genius act clarity act and now we're back into the clarity is not as clear as it was say a few weeks a few months ago this and we've got to get through this uh this shutdown that's happening i do think actually there is some correlation between the government shutdown and uh asset prices kind of they're still you know sideways to slightly up um but once you do get more access uh i saw most recently there's somebody who followed for 5x levered etfs um that feels like maybe some dangerous things will happen like i also own a casino possibly um but those aren't going to get approved until the government opens back up right and so

like there's a lot of these things i think you just got to wait till the government opens up and then kind of uh levers have been cleared out through these drawdowns you open up the market you're ready to rock and roll but also there's a there's a mental psyche that i'm noticing of the fatigue of the average american with this shutdown stuff this isn't the first one i mean i was just joking that uh clinton had one of these as well this is when he um he was answering the phones remember they made the whole parody about him answering the phones because nobody was working because the Republicans had shut it down. And I think Americans are kind of starting to get fatigued of all this. This isn't really, in my opinion, if it goes on much longer, we're halfway

to the longest one. The longest one was 35 days. We're at day 16 right now. If we go well past that, Americans at some point are going to start thinking this isn't a red versus blue thing. I think it's more a orange versus green thing, which is, let's not forget everybody, even though it is the Federal Reserve and they're separate from the government itself, everybody just couples the government, the federal government as a whole. They're going to say, wait a minute, these guys can't even agree on passing a bill, which is arguably going to be the largest bill as far as a budget ever. And that keeps happening. How are they managing money? Oh, they're just printing the crap out of it. And that's why I love Bitcoin and the finite nature of it and the

scarcity of it. And I think those things, they take time. That paradigm shift takes time to click. But when it does click, then you'll start seeing those Bitcoin searches start to increase again. Today's episode is brought to you by Bitizenship. If you're a Bitcoiner thinking about global mobility and securing a true plan B, listen up. Portugal is one of the most attractive golden visa programs in the world, and Bitizenship has built the ideal pathway to get you there. They're behind the first Bitcoin ecosystem, Golden Visa Fund. It's a private equity fund that purchases Bitcoin via a local company. That gives you exposure to Bitcoin while qualifying you for the golden visa and citizenship in just five years. Plus, here's what makes this a no

Yeah, it's very fascinating that the government shutdown feels like it is obviously affecting people but it doesn't feel like most people are talking about it affecting people yeah right it's kind of uh they're talking about the politics of it that'll never go away but usually you see the stories like oh the government shut down like this group of people are being hurt this group of people is you know aren't getting paid whatever i don't know i can't describe like it's just very weird to me this whole situation yeah it's almost like it's shut down and nobody cares because it's this just keeps happening it's like they every year or so The market doesn't care. The market hasn't cratered or anything, right?

No, nothing major has happened in that space. And eventually, I think after 30 days, the stopgaps start to fall off. So people's jobs and their income will be impacted. The other thing is, in the past shutdowns, once it turned back on, all the people that were getting not paid, basically furloughed, would get a big lump sum of ketchup. And now there's a law in place from Trump's first administration where it actually tapers in. So they won't actually just get the money back right away so i think those sad stories of this is impacting these people there's they're coming i think people are just waiting to get really strong behind them because again the attention span of the average american is about 32 seconds right 32 you're being

gracious um there was an article recently in the wall street journal that said that uh there are more people who are on the lower end of the economic ladder that are now participating in the stock market than ever before yes my takeaway from that was so this is a good thing this is positive right more people are participating in capitalism more people have the benefit of inflation is inflating their assets uh they're not just saving and having their wealth stolen how does that play into something like what you guys are doing with these retirement accounts like it does feel like those are stories are intertwined in a way where there's more people are getting access to the market i'm assuming more people are also trying to use different

tax advantage vehicles in order to benefit unfortunately no that's so that's that financial literacy gap that i think is driving the overall retirement gap yes more people are participating than ever before. But there's a literacy gap of understanding that these tools are really helpful for you. If you're going to take and put $7,000 away every year and you want to get into stocks, bonds, mutual funds, cryptocurrency, gold, silver, whatever it might be, putting it in a Roth or a traditional, you get a tax advantage. You avoid capital gains taxes, that nasty 37% that you can get every time you sell or change assets by using these tools. Scary enough, I think they just calculated this about $4 trillion is the total retirement gap. So how

much people are going to need to retire and how much they actually have, because we're living longer than we ever have, well past retirement age. And in fact, 11,000 Americans are turning 65 every day. So we're aging as a generation. And a third of near retirees, so people that are coming up on that 65, 70, they're actually terrified that they're going to outlast their money. And this all comes back to only half of Americans are participating in retirement plans. So yes, encouraging that instead of putting it under the mattress or in a bank, not making anything versus inflation and currency debasement, they're investing, but they're not necessarily using the tools they should be using for the long-term planning. Because also, the beauty of putting it over in that retirement account is you're kind of locking it away from yourself. It's not something you're just going to go sell off in an emergency.

It's not an emergency fund. You're locking it up for a long-term mentality. But I think that's maybe why people are scared, right? If you don't have lots of prosperity or you're just starting to make some money, the idea of taking some of it and basically putting it on the sidelines in an illiquid structure, that actually may be kind of the psychological hurdle, right? Yeah, well, because that's all they see is that, okay, well, now it's in lock and key and I can't touch it. You can get it out. There's a penalty for it, but you can get it out. It's not like it's locked in there forever.

But they're not seeing the other half of it is there's a reason. And the government gives me an incentive for that, which they hardly ever give us incentives, is I put the money aside, it lowers my tax bill for the year. So there's additional savings for you in your overall financial landscape. And I can trade all the time and not every year,

I gotta go to my tax guy and say, oh, I bought Nvidia and I sold it for Apple and I did this. And every time those gains, it really does. I mean, 37 is the highest amount, but you're taking away somewhere between 20 to 30% of every win that you have. So if you're making $10,000 on a trade,

you're really only making 7,500 at the end of the day, you're doing it outside though so it's a lack of understanding of the importance of using the tool do you guys see a lot of people trading or are they most people just kind of buy and hold in these accounts so it's a mix actually we have our year-end planning next week and we're looking at that data right now for the year um you're seeing on average in a lifetime most clients are around seven to ten transactions that they do and that's it yeah and that's it that's a crap but that's like uh just you know buying something and holding it forever but that's the mentality of most bitcoin haulers right that's their their thing but there are some that do a lot there's there's

folks that do i mean there's the upper quartile the top 20 probably do about 40 to 50 trades in a year and they're just they're moving things around changing looking i mean we have 87 coins now so they're playing different games we did just launch staking which i think i told you we were working on that when we saw each other earlier this year you've got four different tokens solana ethereum polka dot and cardano that you can stake with now i think the highest yield is somewhere around eight percent and the great part is you get paid in the coin that you're staking i like this because it's not like what happened back in 22 and 23 where rehypothecation leverage on leverage the assets are staying inside of your ira in wallet they're just being dedicated to build a

better blockchain and help manage the network and and all the transactions and you're getting rewarded for basically thinking long term and that when they when they bring it in and then they stake that's even another layer of okay i'm in this for the longer haul even though you can unstake whenever you want to it's it's kind of like putting cash into annuity you know it's going to be there for a year or two before i pull it out and when people are doing the staking there's no tax ramifications of the stake revenue no yeah so just sits there and just keeps compound keeps coming back in compounds warren buffett would love us yeah um what about equities is there any difference in terms of how people are uh are using any of that stuff so we have so what we build is

a self-directed ira so obviously bitcoin ira is the is the flagship we've got also 87 different digital currencies that are available but we also have gold and silver that people are taking like long-term and putting in tucking aside for that stableness and gold's having a heck of a year right and silver too uh some folks are rolling it that you can do real estate you can do land um we even have a guy that does farm tractors i think i told you about that guy where he leases him and gets that and then you date there are folks that are kind of going back and forth okay this portion's in crypto but this portion i want and because the tech stocks and stock market's doing really well so there's no reason to a diversified approach has that modern portfolio

theory right it's got some of the alternatives it's got some of the bread and butter in the stocks. And then it's got long-term indexes and treasury yields. Yeah. I wonder if my CEO strategy keeps talking about their STRC. And I haven't spent a ton of time on it, but I just see people talking about it and this fact that it's 10 plus percent yield or whatever. And so I got to imagine there's a very large group of people out there that they want yield, especially if it's in a tax advantage way. And the stable coin game right now with the rewards. I was in a bunch of board meetings on the West Coast and big banks and regional banks. And that's all they're really worried about is because they know that if stable coins are more lucrative than their

very low interest bearing accounts that they're offering, they've got to find a way to compete. Well, most banks, as you know, they run off the float. That's where a lot of their revenue comes from and then transactions. But they come and you put the deposits in. They're not paying you a lot, but there's a lot being made behind the scenes above the Fed rate as far as how they're working it. Stable coins, the rewards, the way they're doing this, I think that's going to be the battle of 26 is is because you can't forget to follow the money at the end of the day the bankers big banks are just like big pharma big oil big big they're a big lobby and they've got they they fund a lot of campaigns out there so how will that battle be settled will these will they'll be jp coin and and

all these other banks have their own coins how does that settlement work and liquidity work between all those or is there more of an adoption between the ones that the existing stable coins are out there i think that's going to be that and tokenization of real world assets are going to be the two big uh themes for next year and in the tokenization stuff how does that play into these retirement accounts like are they going to be able to do certain things outside of just the tax advantage that maybe they couldn't do elsewhere well it lowers the barrier to entry right so not a lot of people have enough money inside of their retirement account unless you're peter teal to go and buy a skyscraper or by getting on those these large deals that have great yield tokenization is

is going to lower that barrier to entry. It's going to make it fractionalized. And we're working with groups now on how that would look, but all of that fits inside of the retirement plan. So instead of having to buy a whole farm or a whole building, you can buy a piece of it. Just like, you know, there's groups out there like Acre Trader is a good one that you can buy little pieces of an acre of land and you get the yield on the harvest at twice a year, those types of things. All that is functional inside the IRA. And then you've got the secondary market, right? Once it's fractionalized and tokenized, now things, what usually is like liquidity just sits in a building for years now it's moving and there's a secondary market to it when you look at

uh all of these users like who who is um playing in crypto and doing it in a way that you know uh maybe they wouldn't be doing otherwise and what i mean by this is okay so you got tokenization you've got bitcoin you've got staking you've got all these kind of different things i'm fascinated by the rise of the retail investor and it feels like these the people who are coming to you are not, you know, just putting their stuff on autopilot because some corporation told them, hey, this is what you're supposed to be doing. Like these people are engaged, they're informed, they are probably a little bit wealthier than the average American, and they're trying to figure out how do I allocate my resources?

So like what's driving them psychologically, you think, to do this? Yeah, I think it's a few things. I think it's a seeking alternatives and diversification is a big thing. I do think there is a fear of currency overall, whether they just, especially this year is the worst year in 40 years for the US dollar. People don't quite click that. Average Joe is like, well, I still have 100 grand in my bank account, but that doesn't come full circle for everybody. Well, it doesn't go as far. It goes about 10% less as far as its purchasing power in just one year, which is crazy. So I think that's a piece of it. And also, this is an era

where we're more empowered and engaged than ever before. I even use the word insatiable with our clients. They want more. They want new things. They want complete control. I think like 80% of our transactions happen after hours and on weekends or holidays. So they're not really the nine to five. Yeah. 80% of our transactions, 80% of the transactions happening outside of traditional stock market hours. Interesting. And so they're, they're trade and markets move and crazy. I mean, we've seen some Sundays, right? And even Fridays, it was a great example where then through the weekend. So a lot of transaction volume happening outside the traditional. So these are, these are your people that are working their jobs and they're, but

they're, instead of just going to some RIA or financial advisor and saying, take my money and do what you want with it. And I'll pay you a management fee. Just make sure that number's up every year. When I see you, that era is kind of shifting. People are really taking control of things, which I think I'm just like you. I think it's amazing because it just shows that capitalization is starting. Capitalism is starting to spread to the masses more than just small pockets. Now, one of the things I love to do on this show is help people figure out where they got lost money, make money, you know, figure out something to better their financial life. this 401k kind of trend of forgotten plans or forgotten 401ks. Explain what's happening.

Then maybe we can talk to people about what should they do just to make sure that they don't actually kind of suffer from this. Absolutely. So people forget that once you leave your job, your 401k that you were doing, whether you were contributing or your client company was matching it through your paycheck. Well, that paycheck's not there anymore. So that funds just kind of sits languishing. They don't know that they actually have the power to move it or they just forget about it. It's in there like, Oh, it was only a couple thousand dollars or what? It's still your money. And I always say, it's kind of like leaving your favorite hoodie at your ex-girlfriend's house. Uh, it's, it's just, you don't do that, right? It's your favorite or

quarters of I'm a quarters of guy. You don't leave those things behind. Uh, and so it's actually up to, uh, two, $2.1 trillion have been left behind in old 401ks. And that's up 30% in just two years, because I think as people are changing jobs more, we're going to gig economy. People are just leaving jobs and not forgetting, oh, I have that 401k there. You can control it. So best thing you do, if you completely forgot, do I have one? There are tools out there like Beagle is a good one. And it's like the bloodhound dog that goes and seeks. We'll go, you'll give it some information. It'll go find any 401ks that are registered under your name or your social. And once you figure out where that's at, or you do know you have like a statement from a past one, it's called an employee

sponsored rollover. So you have 401ks, 403bs, thrift savings plans. I know you had one of those a soldier um 457s all these are employee sponsored plans that can roll over into a ira so you can put it in and there's traditional versions and roth versions once you do that especially if you put it at bitcoin ira now you have access to 87 different cryptocurrencies so instead of leaving something behind at a 401k provider that's probably in generic abc funds maybe just sitting in cash doing nothing you can empower yourself to say hey i'm going to take that and roll that over and then you can continue to contribute on your own every year to grow that nest egg over time Today's episode is brought to you by Zappo Bank.

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Again, that's x.com slash Bitlayer Labs. It's fascinating to me that $2.1 trillion could be left behind. But I'm sitting here thinking, you mentioned the military. It's like, yeah, I probably do have something sitting there that, you know, I was just a young guy who wasn't paying attention. And I don't know, maybe I did leave a thrift savings. Probably did. I think it's automated with the military.

They make sure that you're opting into that because it's a great tool. Mm hmm. All right. Let's talk a little bit about gold. You mentioned that you guys have gold available on the platform. We've had this epic rise in the asset. I think people are surprised Bitcoin has not kept up or surpassed gold. But you had a great tweet the other day because I saw you had Schiff on, by the way, and I actually did a short video of and he's a great guy. But there's these two worlds. I think they're harmonious with each other. And I think the way you put it is that if you look at it in terms of Bitcoin price, is that how it was? oh yeah they didn't like that i'm sure they did they did not like that so for context for everyone uh i tweeted uh phil rosen made a nice chart um that was uh gold's price in bitcoin purchasing uh power and uh easy to say gold's purchasing power has gone down significantly in bitcoin in terms of bitcoin um it's down like 84 percent um to put that in context the s p is up 100 since 2020 uh it is down 88 in bitcoin terms median house also houses down significant

everything's down when you look at it in terms it's a paradigm shift right you look at in terms of that it's well is it really worth more or is it just because we pumped so much money into this ecosystem and that's what all boats are rising from that well the gold bugs did not like me saying that i think the words i used were uh it's been a disastrous investment oh wow priced in bitcoin well were you and peter in the same room when you said that no it's it's down 84 if you use bitcoin as the price as the unit of account now of course there's people who immediately come and say well nvidia stock uh bitcoin is down 50 right so you can play this game all day long but my point was just like if bitcoin is the hurdle rate it's finite it can't be debased it

can't be uh more creative of it uh by any one person or group then it's a pretty good measuring state yeah and actually gold has gone down and so um i don't know it's uh we are brothers in the the same fight against currency debasement, but at the same time, there seems to be a divide in terms of people who are a hundred percent Bitcoin versus a hundred percent gold. There's a lot of people in the middle, but a hundred percent, you know, kind of, uh, myself personally, I have a little bit of all of them. So I've got, I hold every crypto asset we have because I'm the tester, right? When new coins come in, I buy and sell. I don't have a lot of all of them. So, you know, some of the, you don't have a million dollars of all 87 coins each. No, I don't. I wish I think we

would probably be retired together by now on that. Uh, but you know, I have heavy in the Bitcoin Ethereum, the, the, the blue chips, um, and, and having some gold and silver, you know, what's nice about new age gold, especially like the one that we have on our platform is it's fractionalized. So you can get it down to the 10th decimal point, just like Satoshi's and Bitcoin. And it also moves very quickly. I had some old gold last at the end of last year, well, not old gold, but physical gold coins and silver coins. And I know the industry pretty well, and it still took almost three weeks to get them shipped out categorized and inventorized and then payment made and payments coming oh wow and that's a long time and i mean if time is money that's a long time

of waiting for that process to take place with the new digital versions of it it's all backed by physical gold sitting at a vault and depository audited by blockchain and then the blockchain itself is saying yes these coins have gone in or gone out so that's the future of it and you know still i have some of that for me i'm not a gold bug i'm definitely a bitcoin bull um but i think that they they are harmonious with each other it's just we always have to have something to argue about right i mean that's that's america today i was at nasdaq yesterday and the the moderator said something about how how crazy do you think it would be if 9 11 happened now and the way the world is like i mean we all came together as americans uh the day after that but would that

happened today as divisive as we are as a country what do you think probably not i think people would be arguing whether the towers actually fell like there'd be somebody out there that says they didn't fall they'll be back tomorrow you know that's how how we we just find these these and it's not just two sides it's these we find our corner to sit in and we just put the line in the sand and we stick to where we're at as an individual and so much social media i think i disagree i think that people would come together you think because so if you think of um the charlie kirk situation if he was uh not political i think you would have found uh both sides coming together you know a lot more there's something about your side versus my side there's something in in the

political culture today of it's me versus you um i was thinking about this recently because uh you know who john federman is you know like the uh recognize the name okay so john federman politician out of uh pennsylvania and he's the guy who wears the hoodie all the time right and um he was on stage at this event uh that chris cuomo did at the kennedy center in washington dc and he had all kinds of he had bill o'reilly he had stephen a smith he had all these people right ro khanna was there i mean right left everything in between but he had uh john federman and federman was asked about the uh uh government shutdown and he basically was like look this is stupid we should not shut the government down then they asked him about uh israel hamas and the

peace deal and he said i don't understand why my party can't say good job you know president trump you did this and somebody asked him like well do you think kamala harris could have done it he's like what are we talking about like hypothetical he did it yeah we should give him credit for it right but then he turned and he had good things to say about uh democrats he's a democrat right and also he had critiques of republicans so like it was a very rational kind of centrist thing where he was just like look when somebody does something good we should all agree that it's a good thing when somebody does something that's bad we should call it out critique it etc and he's like by the way i'm a democrat but doesn't preclude me from saying

good job getting the hostages released right at the same time it doesn't preclude me from saying there's other things that you're doing that you shouldn't be doing as an administration So I thought it was just a very unique voice coming from a breath of fresh air. Every time I've heard him talk for the last couple of weeks, I've been much more impressed in terms of his ability to say it. Now, you know, when he first showed up and was wearing the hoodie and everything, you're like, who is this guy? But I was very impressed by that. Now, the reason why I bring that up is if you go and you look at what happened at 9-11, there was people from every walk of life, from a janitor to the CEOs. There was people who survived.

There were people who didn't survive. There were people, especially in the Northeast, who they knew someone. And if they didn't know somebody who was in the tower, they knew somebody who knew somebody who was in the tower or who was related to somebody in the tower, right? it was republicans and democrats men and women it was every religion it was i mean it just affected on such a broad basis i think that that type of stuff really pulls people together yeah if it was uh unfortunately something bad happened to only republicans or only democrats i think you would get the drawing so i think that it's this weird dynamic where people are much more empathetic when it affects the folks that they say,

that could have been me. Yeah. Or it's people I knew. They feel like they're looking in the mirror when they're- Correct. And I think that with 9-11 in particular, there was something that was humanizing about, they went to work-

And they didn't come home. And they didn't come home, and it didn't matter who they were. Yeah. It didn't matter what their job was. There's all kinds of industries in the building, all these different components. And so I think that that is,

I would like to believe- Yeah. That there's this undying patriotism. hope it doesn't take a national tragedy correct to start bringing the bridging these gaps i hope there's more centrist views and those types of things i'm a i'm an orange guy i'm not a blue or red guy i'm an orange guy at the end of the day and uh and i think i mean i i see pros and cons on both sides for sure obviously as a crypto guy i love seeing the change the pendulum swing of regulation where we actually we're getting a chance to prove to the world we can do some

really amazing things with this technology um instead of waiting in line at the three-letter agencies for them never to respond with a letter and kind of just act like we don't exist so i might encourage by that but that those that pendulum swings it'll keep going back and forth especially after things like friday and and if you see leverage get out of hand they come in with very big broad strokes too the government doesn't have a fine pin they have a big black marker and they just say nope this is gone or this is gone kind of thing so but you know barring a national tragedy i think bitcoin is one of those things that can start bringing us together i'm very interested you know you probably have the same i was joking with uh your phil and john

last night of what's thanksgiving dinner at the pomp house like all right and but i i always think about you know the the been doing this a decade every thanksgiving or christmas it's always a little bit of different temperature going into the holidays with our families of what's it going to be like around the table are they uh because like you said that search volume's down are people still interested what will be with bitcoin specifically with bitcoin specifically what will we be talking about i mean i had years where they were like i can't believe you didn't tell me about this there was like 17 18 and then it was are you okay in 19 and then and then eventually over over the years it's always kind of a little bit different of a narrative at thanksgiving so i'll be you'll

have to tell me how it goes at yours i heard i heard you guys are very intellectually solid arguers is what they said you guys if you grew up in a family of five boys who uh all somehow figured out uh what they wanted to do in life yeah you get pretty good at arguing you know it's uh i credit all time i've talked about it a million times that uh when i do television and you know all of a sudden it kind of whips back and forth and i'm like this was the dinner table when i grew up right like it's uh um there is something about just constantly having to defend your ideas or convince uh other people to do something where you just get better at it yeah right and i think that that is are there any lawyers in the family no no lawyers no no but but um i think bitcoiners

are used to this right i mean how many times have uh people how many times have we been called dead well just they've tried to convince someone about bitcoin and then uh there's no conversion to it right and so then they try again they try again they try and they're like my argument's not working yeah i gotta change it i gotta improve it i gotta figure it right and then eventually they figure out stop talking about bitcoin start talking about the problem yeah when somebody buys into the problem then explain the solution right exactly and uh and that seems to be working and that's true not even at the dining room table it's i i've been around new york all week i went to the museum of ice cream with my daughter you put a little name it's cool right it's really cool

and you put a little name tag so i put bitcoin breeze as my name and of course all the other dads that are out there getting the old fashioned drink over at the bar. And the first stop they're like, Hey, what did you think about the crash? And I was like, ah, you know, I don't know if you can call it a crash. Yes. It was a liquid liquidity event, but, uh, we're still holding strong at one 12, one 15 right now. This is, we're just gotten so big that yeah, $19 billion of liquidation seems large, but it's because we're such a big space now. Uh, and then, but then you'll go, I was in the elevator, leave, leave in the hotel to come here today. And I had my Bitcoin IRA vest on and they're like, ah, just never going to understand that, you know? So

it's both sides, you know, there's people younger, uh, the, the young, it was younger guy, younger dads at the Bitcoin museum or not the Bitcoin, the museum of ice cream. And then it was older folks in the elevator today. You know, Bitcoiners, we can walk in anywhere. It just becomes a Bitcoin. You wear the color orange and it's like, all right, it's off to the races. We can start a discourse. Yeah. I love it. Um, all right. Help me understand, uh, Bitcoin IRA. I I've been told that you guys have some specials for people who are watching this for pomp listeners for your audience. So we did run at the beginning of the year, we had the Pomp special. I went to my board of directors. I said, Hey, I'm going back to see Pomp. I'd love to be able to come with something

in my hands to offer. So they are allowing me to turn that back on for Pomp audience. So it's up to a thousand dollars in rewards for opening your account. All you have to do is use the link that's provided in your show. Or if you call, don't forget, we have real crypto, real people. If you call 877-936-7175 and tell them you're with Pomp, then you'll get that special. And I added a little sprinkle a little sizzle on top of it. It's a holiday season's coming, gifting season's coming. We have a great Bitcoin IRA swag store. In fact, we just put a hodl onesies in place so you can get some for your twins. Congratulations. But great hodl swag. The nest egg is the O. We've got all kinds of things, mugs, travel mugs, Stanleys, those things. So you'll get a free gift

as well. You'll get a gift card to go and get something for yourself or for maybe one of those family members you need to convince of Bitcoin for the holidays. So if somebody opens an account, They can get up to $1,000 worth of rewards in terms of opening the account. And then also there's a gift card that they then can go and get. Go to the shop and get something. Shop. That's a pretty good deal. Yep.

Absolutely. All right. It's pretty good looking stuff. What do they have to do? They go to the website and... Bitcoiniray.com forward slash pomp. And you can either download the app online or open up the website on your desktop. And it's about two, three minutes to open up an account.

And then our team will actually kick in. You'll meet one of our executives who's been doing this for decades. uh, be able to sit and cause not all retirements are equal, right? Everybody's got their some force of 57, 403 B's TSPs. So we'll help guide you in funding the account. And then it's off to the races and you can trade 24, seven, three 65. And if you're like most people, you're probably doing it on nights and weekends. I love it. I love it. You know, it's very good strategy to come here and bring stuff for the listeners. You tend to be a fan favorite after, uh, afterwards. And, uh, uh, last time you did that, I see that you paid attention

and thousands of your audience has joined us so like you have a we love them they're great they're it's great to have fellow mind like like-minded people that are looking for i love bitcoin i love crypto i just i really need to start using these tax advantage tools that the government gives me well i think a big part of it is you know obviously people like the assets but as they learn about the tax advantage accounts they realize hey maybe i actually have a 401k from a job or you know whatever i haven't been intentional about getting as much money into it as possible and then managing that capital and i think that once people start to uh to think through that then that completely changes absolutely all right well i appreciate it very much thank you you're always uh fun to

talk to but but uh come with very unique insights like the uh you know 80 of the trades being outside of uh normal trading hours makes sense in hindsight and then uh good good uh thought starter on uh you know are we actually patriotic anymore or not that's good good that was a good discourse buddy i appreciate it every time i come here i enjoy it all right we'll do it again soon