The Pomp Podcast - #257: Polina Marinova on Building Resilience in Times of Uncertainty

Episode Date: April 1, 2020

Polina Marinova is the Founder of 'The Profile', a weekly newsletter featuring the best long-form profiles of the world's most successful people and companies. She previously worked at Fortune, where she wrote the popular 'Term Sheet' on a daily basis. In this conversation, Polina and Anthony discuss their recent engagement, growing up in Bulgaria, moving to the United States, leading a mass walkout in college, her 5 years at Fortune Magazine, and making the jump into entrepreneurship during a global pandemic. =============================== CRYPTO.COM-----The only all-in-one platform that allows you to BUY / SELL / STORE / EARN / LOAN / INVEST crypto all from one place. Join over 1 million users currently using the Crypto.com app. Download and earn $50 USD using my code ‘pomp2020’, or use the link http://platinum.crypto.com/r/pomp2020 when you sign up for one of their metal cards today. TAXBIT-----Refund-maximizing, cryptocurrency tax software you can depend on. Visit taxbit.com/invite/pomp and receive 10% off your tax plan today by signing up for a free trial. LEDGER----- Ledger hardware wallets empower you to optimally secure, own and control your crypto. Visit ledger.com and give yourself peace of mind by knowing that your cryptocurrencies are safe.

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off The Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. Polina Marinova is the founder of The Profile, a weekly newsletter featuring the best long-form profiles of the world's most successful people and companies. She previously worked at Fortune, where she wrote the popular term sheet on a daily basis. Luckily for me, Polina is also my fiance. In this conversation, we discuss growing up in Bulgaria, moving to the United States, leading a mass walkout in college, her five years at Fortune magazine, and making the jump into entrepreneurship during a global pandemic. I also share a collection of funny

and embarrassing stories along with generally giving our hard time throughout the interview. We had a blast recording this one and I hope that you guys enjoy it. Before we get into the episode though, I want to talk about the three sponsors. The first, Crypto.com. They're an all-in-one platform that allows you to buy, sell, store, earn, loan, and invest crypto all from one place. You can join over 1 million users on their mobile app, Crypto.com app. Go ahead to the app store, download it, and you can earn 50 US dollars with my code POMP2020 or use the link in the description. Their mobile payments are now available through a debit card in the United States where you can pay in a fast, easy, and secure way with Apple, Google, or Samsung Pay.

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They've pre-recorded an advertisement that I'll play now, and then we'll get into the episode with Polina. I hope you guys enjoy it. custody can be quite difficult to secure and hard to scale. Firms are often left with a difficult decision, having to choose between security or liquidity. At Ledger, we're obsessed that our clients' businesses succeed. That is why we decided to create a digital asset platform that would enable financial institutions and crypto firms to manage their funds without compromising on security and liquidity. Firms like Uphold, Bitstamp, Crypto.com, Indax, and Dunamu are

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Bang, bang. We have the absolute pleasure, hopefully, of being blessed by Miss Polina Marinova, my fiance, the founder of The Profile, and a bunch of other amazing, cool things. Thanks for doing this. Thank you for having me. I can't believe I'm doing this, but here I am. she's been ecstatic that she now has the chance to come on here, answer some questions. I'm going to interview her, and then she is likely to bust my balls and give me a hard time. So let's get started. You're not from the United States. Did you just figure that out? Tell us your story. Um, so I was born in Bulgaria and my dad won a green card. Actually, my mom won a green card.

My dad filed, um, in 1999. So we moved to the United States when I was eight or nine years old. Where's Bulgaria? A lot of people don't know where that is. It's right above, it borders Greece and Turkey and Romania. Okay. Let's talk about the citizenship application process. I know the story, obviously, of how your dad won it. And I'll just summarize it with, he basically looked around the room and said, who's every single person I could file for citizenship to win this green card because it's a lottery and kind of the more shots on goal you get, the higher your chances. Your mom won it. But then there's a whole process that goes into it. Maybe talk a little bit about just like how that actually works. Yeah, it's super interesting because I think this visa is not the common ones that people come on. It's technically considered the diversity lottery visa program. I can't remember which president started it, but essentially they started it in hopes of attracting people from different countries and having them immigrate in a legal way. uh but the reason it's a lottery and not you know merit-based is because a lot of these countries

uh there's a ton of corruption so even if you're like okay let's have you take a test and then you can come a lot of times it's like the corrupt politicians kids who are going to take the test because you know it'll it just doesn't work um this lottery is awesome because like anybody can apply and if you get it you still have to prove a lot of stuff you have to have graduated from high school um they look at they do a background check um i think you have had to work for several years all that stuff that they look for and then it takes the whole process takes about a year you go to the u.s embassy you have to interview with them and then they ask you questions like you know what are you going to do there do you have family uh that you can stay with um so that

you can prove you're not going to come to the U.S. and be homeless? And, you know, could those people greet you at the airport, provide a place to live and help you find a job? So, yeah, my family didn't know anybody in the United States, but I think my grandfather knew some people who were here and happy to to greet us. Got it. And so it's obviously a really complex and hard process to navigate um but once you get to the United States you're eight nine years old like what is that like I barely speak English let alone having come here and didn't speak English like like how do you navigate that yeah it's definitely a weird time mainly because I got pulled out of second grade of Bulgaria and um I came to Atlanta and did not speak any English but you're a kid so I

so we moved here in April. So I spent the summer kind of like watching TV and trying to understand English before school. And I started school in August. But for some unknown reason, they put me in fourth grade here. And I, the biggest, I didn't speak any English, but the biggest advantage I had was that in Bulgaria in second grade, we were solving for X in math. And I was terrible in math there but here people thought i was a genius so like i walk into fourth grade and they're like okay guys like we're gonna solve four plus seven i was like oh my god this is a dream so i was you know amazing at math really struggled with english and reading but um i was in that yes so well class the english is a second language esl i i don't know mine had an o osl yes ol i don't know so then

my teacher there, Miss Anne Jackson, I will never forget her. She kind of saw potential in me. She saw, you know, I was curious. I liked books, but I couldn't really understand them. So she would start with like the baby books, like the really small, basic books, make me go home with them, and then tell me, like, go home, use the dictionary, and translate the words until you understand so that's what I did and then um like the level of book escalated from there and I loved it all right so you're doing that um and that's kind of like the academic side what what was like the social side I feel like um most kids have like either really good experiences really bad experiences um and you get all the clicks and everything in like high school and all that

what's that like coming from another country I mean so yeah like in high school you get the clicks but elementary school like kids are brutal they do not care because they have no social filter they don't think like oh i might hurt their feelings yeah i was a savage you know i i i have a feeling we wouldn't have been friends but um so of course like and i totally get it now but like moving from a different country uh in fourth grade of course you're like the weird kid that's going to get picked on that doesn't speak English. Like it's, it's just terrible. And, um, so I didn't really have many friends. There was a girl in my class who was also from Bulgaria. So I had her, um, but did you guys speak Bulgarian? Yes. And I actually got in trouble in Spanish class

for speaking Bulgarian and not English and not Spanish. So, yeah, that's a lot of languages going on. All right. So you do all of this. At what point do you realize, uh, that you want to go to the university of georgia and eventually become a journalist yeah so it's really funny when i was little um my family was like religious about watching the news and i was really chatty as you can imagine still are and so they uh they were always like oh my god like please stop talking so i can watch the news and i hated the news i like i knew when that thing came on i couldn't speak so it was just like a horrible time for me um but then um I went to high school and um I was pretty shy like I didn't I I didn't like talking to new people or strangers for no reason like

there was I was like why would I ever do that like I have my friends I I don't need to embarrass myself and talk to other people so I was pretty shy and then um one of my friends joined the school newspaper. And I was like, oh, cool. Like that's an elective. That's not, you know, PE or like music. So I joined it too. And I really liked writing. Like I've always liked writing. I didn't like talking to people, but the newspaper actually gave me an excuse in a weird way to talk to strangers because I was, I had a job to do. So it kind of, it was really interesting. Like I got to talk to all sorts of people and like interview the principal you know how big of a deal that is I was not trying to talk to the principal you talked to them for other reasons they wanted to

talk to me but I was you know um so yeah so it was I had the best time so I I loved writing articles I liked interviewing people I liked writing and from there I just went like all in uh to the journalism path and it's I don't know if like I was actually in the science program in high school because i was a nerd um both my parents were chemical engineers so i was like i i love chemistry uh but then i found that i actually liked writing those 15 page lab reports much more than doing the experiment and i still remember like my friends would be like oh paulina's in our group like she'll blow up the whole thing so i just wrote the lab so you mentioned that you didn't take the electives like pe and that type of stuff were you athletic um i was athletic at chess

all right we'll come back to this story in a second well depends on who you're asking yeah sure we'll come back to this part of the story um all right so you decide that hey i really like journalism uh you go to the university of georgia what was that like um it was great i really didn't want to go there because I just thought it would be high school all over again, same people, same whatever. But when there's 35,000 people on campus, you find that there's new groups and new people. UGA had one of the best journalism programs in the country. So you have to apply to get in. I got in. I also worked at the school newspaper and started working there as a freshman and worked my way up to editor-in-chief when I was a senior. For those of us that don't understand

the newspaper editor-in-chief's like the boss it's like the boss they have like an office oh really that's not popular today in offices but i get we're remoting now it's quarantine time you just use zoom it's perfect look at our office now um all right so speaking of the school newspaper uh you made national headlines in college for uh basically being a gangster and leading a walkout tell us about this um i know all the secrets so i get asked all the questions Yeah. And it's so funny that it was like me, right? Cause you know me, like I'm not very rebellious or looking for trouble. But basically what happened was the student newspaper is independent. It has a board of directors. So it's in no way affiliated school or anything like that.

We have our own advertising reps. We have people advertise. That's how it makes money. so at the time this is 2012 um i had you were still in school in 2012 as a senior jeez wait what do you mean oh yeah because you're you're like a child go ahead so fall of 2012 i'm like a senior i'm ready to go i finally like editor-in-chief like my dream all this all my life and suddenly this rogue board member from the board of directors comes into the newsroom and says you know what we're losing a ton of money you guys don't know what you're doing we're just gonna basically take away student independence and have a professional run this and that's it and i was just like yeah that's not gonna happen because you um the student newspaper has been

independent since i think the 70s for a very very long time what does that mean independent Like it's not reliant on, it's its own business. It's not reliant on the university. Okay. So it, and, and students have always had the final say. So no matter what, like the reason it was cool to be editor of the school paper is because if somebody made a mistake, you're responsible for it. Like I would be on the phone all the time with people who are upset about something

in an article and would have to defend why we did it or whatever. and then maybe have a serious conversation with the reporter afterwards but you were kind of the face of this institution by the way i'm laughing because you think that that's cool and that sounds like a nightmare to me that well yeah but it's like you learn right yeah i got you i can see why it would be cool to somebody who likes it was an amazing uh learning experience and then suddenly like i'm in the situation where i have to make an ethical decision of uh what do i do Like, do I keep, um, do I stay editor and let this happen or do I not? So basically, um, I called the staff meeting.

I told my staff like, Hey, I'm just going to step down as editor in chief because of this business is like the second week of school. Um, because I just can't be here when this happens. And I just will not allow somebody to take the editorial independence away from the students so I said I'm stepping down and it was like in a movie like you know when it was so cool um because these were my friends and because we had worked together for four years everybody was like well I'm gonna leave too and I'm gonna leave too so it was just like everybody walked out got in our cars and left and went into this like super hot apartment it was mid-August um no AC and we

just sat there and we're like what are we gonna do now and we definitely didn't think it would be a big story but that's right when twitter was kind of um starting to be big and uh it went viral on twitter first and it got picked up picked up picked up and then over the course of that day plus the next day it was in cnn usa today like all the major news publications long story short um there was a lot of support for the students there were also of course the people who were like you spoiled brats like every time you don't like what's going on at a job you can't just like get up and leave which I agree with but I hope that if I'm ever in a situation and there's an ethical dilemma I will always do what's right and that's what I felt like you did so then yeah so long

story short we met with the board of directors the students talked to them and we came to a resolution and the paper is still independent today. All right, good job. So how do you get from Georgia to Fortune Magazine where you worked for five years? Yeah, so I graduated in 2013, no full-time offers. I was freelancing for CNN and USA Today during the day. So I would work at cnn from 7 a.m to 4 p.m drive home and then from 6 to 11 work at usa today remotely um i did that for about a year saved a lot of money and really just wanted to get to new york i don't i didn't know how i didn't know what i'd be doing but i just wanted to get here why why yeah like why did you want to come to new york because there's a lot of people who think that's crazy

yeah yeah but to me it's like i felt like um in a weird way like atlanta was like too small for what i wanted to do at least i thought at 21 years old um i was like new york is where media is and like dreams are so that was where that's where pop is too you know all right go ahead um so yes i i did i interviewed at a ridiculous number of places including um a newsletter startup that where i didn't get the job because they said um i didn't have enough experience with newsletters which is really funny now um but then i i got a job at aussie which is um it was a media startup it still is uh and i moved to new york in 2014 spent six months at the startup and then got a job as the social media editor at fortune magazine all right i'm gonna give you a bunch of shit this

is not one of the things i'm gonna give you shit about you went from the social media editor at fortune magazine to writing term sheet which is probably the most popular widely read thing in tech finance business private equity kind of but those guys are weird um what like how does that happen how do you do that in a span of three or four years yeah so uh like i wrote uh recently when i started at fortune i didn't know what a term sheet was um i was subscribed to term sheet the newsletter. Uh, but I didn't understand a single word. I had no idea what venture capital was, why people were giving these startups money. Most venture capitalists don't know either. Go ahead. Well, uh, I didn't know anything, but I thought it was like interesting. And I thought

it was something I should learn about. So my goal was by the end of the year, I kept reading it every day. Um, and by the end of the year, my goal is to understand like 10% of what was said in it. after a while you start like understanding like oh like facebook bought this little startup and like why and that's interesting um but i i genuinely had no idea what were some of the weirdest things that you remember reading that you didn't understand like i know one time you told me dry powder yeah i was like what the hell is dry powder yeah right unspent money there's a lot of people who wish they had dry powder why wouldn't you just say unspent or money that's not deployed or well it's because you got to sound cool dry it does sound all right so yeah so anyway

so i do that and then um we start a new section called the fortune venture which is uh focused on small businesses first-time entrepreneurs uh kind of learning about the business side of things if If you want to start, um, I did that for about a year and then, um, and then Dan Premack had left, uh, fortune to go, uh, he had just left fortune to go do a rather Axios and term sheet, um, was being authored by Aaron Griffith. So, um, I started helping Aaron compile the term, uh, the deal section, which wasn't that hard, right? Like it's pretty formulaic.

you see a press release of this company bought this company and uh you put it in like a formula don't tell people the secrets everyone thinks it's really hard yeah but it takes a lot takes a lot of time all right so at what point do you go from doing the deals to actually writing so then aaron leads and um there was a question who the hell is going to write term sheet and i definitely it was not on my radar i never thought i'd do that thing that i never previously understood um so in my head I was like absolutely not I could never do this and then when they asked me if I wanted to do it I was like yes absolutely how scared were you I mean you were here you know how scared I was how scared I know you were I've never seen you so scared of anything in your life

and I was like all you have to do is write like you've been doing this your whole life yeah it's like and this is the thing about writing something you're not confident writing is like I over prepare when i'm insecure about something i like make sure i research it over research it over prepare interview or talk to a bunch of people so i would literally in the those first few days i would wake up at 4 30 a.m then yell at him because i was like what the hell i don't write about today i suck this is horrible what am i doing then we would have like the whole like calm down like it's gonna be okay and then therapist right here and then i would um like once i calmed myself i would start calling people and

know what was going on in I wanted to add to it. Al this is going on, we'll c sheet in a second. You me me tell this story. Why y about? I got a lot. I got to tell, but you tell wat tell. I won't embarrass y

nah because he has some fake news with his story so this is why i want to tell it first um so okay so this is 2016. i'm just living my life being a great reporter and uh she stalked me on the internet that's what happened what did i just say about interrupted okay we're having a big discussion about interrupting and mansplaining in this household so all right let's go um okay so so 2016 i'm living my life and i used to have this facebook show that i did for a fortune called founder friday and i would interview a founder every friday on facebook live um uh so then i would share the videos on my facebook page i guess um and and people that we know would share them on there exactly so there was like a mutual friend

who was on it who shared it and the people that he knows had liked i guess the video um so it was at the time right when facebook came out with that love feature like that heart feature so i was like thumbs up thumbs down laughing face so i was like who the hell is loving this video like that is so weird one of them was my stepmom and the second person was the therapist our friend right here so what the hell is this guy so i click on his thing and it's like a very nice picture of you and your mom like i was i was in a tuxedo actually in the photo my cousin got married in california so he paid me a lot of money to show up and wear the top but go ahead so lovely great i move on with my this is this is like september 2016 and then a few months later i write an

article about like this startup and AI and all this stuff. Another friend of mine. How am I supposed to know? Go ahead. And I, what I do is if you guys don't know this trick, it's a great trick if you're a reporter, or if you just want to look at who shared a link that you like or whatever, you take the link and you put it in the search bar and it shows you every person that's ever shared it and maybe not tagged you. So I do that for all my articles just to see like who's sharing it who's whatever and who shared it me yeah so i was like oh my god that's literally the same guy so then i see in his twitter bio that says something something like venture investor but at the same time he only has like 700 followers bio never said that but go ahead it did and it had

it had something like you you have like 700 followers meanwhile i had thousands and thousands so i was like i mean what's another follow for this guy so i just gave me a pity follow i gave you a pity follow and i liked my article and i retweeted my article so just so we're clear no just so we're clear i'm taking over now if you're sitting there and all of a sudden in your notifications you only have 700 followers you get like no notifications and all of a sudden you're like oh my god this girl liked retweeted and followed me she's harassing me on the internet she's stalking and therefore i messaged you and i said we would translate that into he slid into my twitter dms and what did i say um he was like hey no that is not true that is not true i said

hey i saw your article it was good i have a whole bunch of companies we've invested in we have a whole bunch of companies that we invested in you should write about some of those as well or something to that you didn't tell me to write you said i'm an early stage investor like maybe we should meet for coffee i invest in many early stage startups i was like yes sure and i sent you a list of the companies yes before we searched every single one and you still have my notes from them and the ones that have that i said would implode have imploded yeah the the ones that uh if i just listened to her advice we probably could have saved a lot of money probably made more money actually um and so when we met for coffee uh you have to tell

the story i'll let you tell the story okay but you have to tell but you have to tell the story the only story i'll ask you to tell and then we'll move on so because i can tell that you're embarrassed is you have to tell the story of what happened while we were sitting there and you kept getting up in the middle of our first time that we ever met and as people know i am incredibly facetious i like to joke around if anything obnoxious or embarrassing happens around me i let people know and just keep that in mind as you hear this story and how kind of a person i so let me set the scene first of all it is a cold december day i'm walking in a blizzard i literally had to stop at a cvs because i was crying from the the like wind she had to fix her

makeup because she was coming to meet me that's okay that's not true anyway so i get to the coffee shop um i meet him and he's wearing a hat you had on a hoodie um and you had on jeans that were like way too big for you remember because you were really skinny well it was really skinny i was skinny at the time but they were normal fitting jeans i just lost a lot of weight but go ahead so anyway i meet this guy and i'm like oh my god um yeah and and then we got coffee and i got a cappuccino and i sat down in a super crowded coffee shop so there were like people walking in and out i was like right in there and it was so cold that i had this massive heavy coat with me and the stupid little chairs were like way too small and flimsy so when you put your coat on

if you're not sitting on the chair when you get up your chair falls so i heard them say like cappuccino and i was like oh is that mine so it would get up and my chair would fall and like oh okay that's fine happened one time and it hurt cappuccino was not there so she came back sat down was like oh my god i can't believe my chair fell over that was embarrassing okay i did not say a word i didn't say a word kept talking she thought that she heard a second time them call so she stood up chair fell over a second time she realized that's not my cappuccino and my chair fell over sets it back up sits back down i do not say a word and finally a third time they actually call her name as if the first two times weren't a good lesson she stands up and the

chair falls over a third time and she goes and she gets the cappuccino and comes back and it took every ounce of self-discipline i have to not say a single word and she picked up or i think i actually picked up the chair you sat back down and we continued the conversation as if the chair didn't fall over three times i don't know what i yeah okay so that happened all right can you also tell the one story remember when i asked you if you were athletic back in high school i just want you to tell the story of the time that you pulled your muscle in the new york public library okay that literally so ridiculous um this is the only this is the last embarrassing story i'll ask you to tell and then we'll move on to important so we went to the new york public library and we're

walking around and i don't know why he loves this story so much but we're walking and walking up the stairs and suddenly i pulled a muscle i don't know i have no idea what happened but i just like went down and i was like oh my god i think i pulled a muscle and he just looked at me he was like wait are you serious and i was like i'm literally dying like the most nerd thing of all time literally walking through the library she pulled a muscle in her hamstring and like not in like a fashion of like oh that kind of hurt like grab your leg like as in uh like oh i just got shot and she grabbed her leg and literally like threw her purse at me and like hobbled for a second and i had to look around and i was like did somebody stab you what happened but this is

also the story of how you carried my bag all i did nice guy very nice guy actually carried your purse uh did not look like a man purse actually looked like i was carrying a female's purse throughout the new york public library all right so let's go back to actual real stories now that been embarrassing you um you're at fortune you're doing term sheet and three years ago you start the profile yeah all right tell us about the profile so three years ago i was like i want to do something creative for myself that involved really like good long-form journalism because at the time a lot of media organizations were kind of aggregating a lot of stories it was it was a lot uh to read a lot of crap to read and get through before you could get like the meat

so um i was like i'll create this email and i'll compile some of the best profiles because i really love profiles on people and companies that i find across the web whether that's fortune forbes uh gq espn sports illustrated all sorts of publications and um put them together in one email and actually i'm a very indecisive person so i kept going back and forth should i do it should i don't should i not and uh you were like just do it like what's like what's the big deal i think i think that's the best thing about you is like you always minimize really serious situations for me and like if what are they serious it's not like you're gonna die like like pretty much my life is evaluated on am i gonna die or is there zero chance of dying and

doing 90 well for me by 85 of the things are in that you're not gonna die a category so safer than the other once you get into the you're not gonna die category it's like what's the risk reward and 95 percent of those things are like super high reward compared to the risk so like why not do it did that did you did that mentality come from after you went to war so like it would be safe answer to say yes but like no that's probably why i ended up in the middle of iraq at one point was because my entire life i grew up with four brothers and we were just like i think subconsciously we just would say things like we're not gonna die so we would go do crazy shit like one day i'll bring my brothers on here we'll do we'll tell the stories of when we were

kids and like the things that we did looking back i have no clue how all five of us are still alive and all five of us still have every arm and leg no clue but that's basically taking that evaluation of decisions as a child to like now it's like okay you want to start this thing like go do it yeah stop talking about it so yeah so i was talking about it for a really long time and then finally he was like why don't you just do it and i did it and i love it all right so you started three years ago and you just quit fortune left look quit sounds bad but you left to go do this full time why did you leave like there's a reset like let me play devil's advocate there's a recession that's occurring. Uh, you had a great job. Lots of people thought it was an important

job. Um, you got to talk to cool people all the time. Um, and then you're like leaving for this thing that nobody knows. Yeah, no. And, and you know, this, like, I love, see, I get to say stuff and when we're interviewing that she would get mad at me for otherwise. All right, go ahead. Um, and now I have to think about what you said for something to get mad at you about later. Um, But yeah, no, I loved Fortune. The best part of it was term sheet and talking to the community of people and getting to interview so many.

I mean, I talked to like Melinda Gates. Like when do you ever get to interview Melinda Gates? So- She's a gangster. She is. But I think it was back in January. I kind of started thinking about like, I had a lot going on at work at Fortune

And I wasn't really dedicating that much time to the profile, not as much as I would have loved to. And I was like, what would it look like if I just did this full time 100% and gave it all my attention? And I started thinking about ideas and like this and that and whatever. And I just could not decide. It was kind of miserable because I would wake up and be like, oh my God, I want to do this. And then go to bed and be like, no, no, no, no, I can't. and I kept going back and forth and just like mentally that's really disruptive um so he made me write down like a list of reasons to leave reasons not to um and yeah can we talk about the thing pretty sad can we talk about this list so finally for for everyone that's out there um

if you have a significant other if you have a good friend if you have anyone who's going through one of these times where they don't know what to do uh it's usually pretty obvious to the other people in their life. Like it was obvious for a while that you should go do this because you really enjoyed doing it. You just were being a scaredy cat. That's basically what it was. You were overwhelmed by the illusion of risk, not by the actual risk. You thought it was more risky than it was. And so I basically made you make the list so that you would stop asking me every five seconds what I thought. And I said, make the list and then we'll talk about it. Yeah. And to your credit, you never said do this or do that or whatever, even though like

in those times i think if you're a person like me like kind of crave um not validation yeah kind of validation and like somebody telling you like yes this is the right decision but like you never said yes this is absolutely the right decision or that is the right decision because i didn't want to be blamed if you did something and it didn't work like it's not it's not my choice it's your choice yeah all right so you make this list and ladies and gentlemen let me tell you this list was pathetic and pathetic in the sense of the list of why to do it was super long the list of why not to do it was complete and utter nonsense it was like uh people might not like it if i do this uh it was like letting people down what else i get in my own way it was like it was like legitimate things that

are not trivial concerns. But when you compare them risk to reward, the risk was pathetically less than the reward. Right. But you also have to understand this is a place where I spent five years and I think a lot of my identity was tied up into it. And to suddenly say, no, no, I'm going to do this thing that nobody knows at all. And it's not even like a real organization that's backed by any sort of credibility except myself uh you're really counting on people trusting you to do to make it good hey here's a free knowledge bomb for you guys you'll never be happier or freer than when your identity is tied to your name right just be you yeah but so then so then okay so i make this decision and finally i'm like i'm gonna do this full time i'm gonna go for it and

a few days later um the coronavirus hits and i'm like oh my god there's going to be a recession there's a virus the virus was spreading and honestly it was in a weird way there was so much uncertainty that i think my brain just kind of like freaked out and calmed down because on it nobody knows what's going to happen there's so much uncertainty that you can't and plan. So I started it at a time where a lot of uncertainty, but at the same time, I think a lot of people want to read good, high quality content and they have time for it. So in a weird, twisted way, I'm hoping that that's one positive thing that came. All right. And so what has been the response from people when you've told them that you

are going to go do this full time? Because this was one of the biggest things I think we disagreed on that i told you was true and you didn't believe me but i think now you overwhelmingly positive people are really nice like they are really really kind humans what did i tell when i told you if you go to do this people will help you what was my logic and do you agree with it i think your logic was if you put something into the world people will want to support you and help you build it um because you know that's how people are and if you tell if you tell people your goals they're more likely to want to help you be successful than they are to judge you for that being your goal right i didn't know that i did not i thought people would be judgmental and the

questions i thought i was going to get is why on earth would you ever leave a safe secure job to do something so crazy you're more likely to get questions like why on earth are you hanging out that guy than you are. All right. So, uh, how's the profile going? So it's going great. Uh, in the last, I've been doing it for a week and a half and that week and a half, I've literally, uh, uh, interviewed seven small business owners to ask them about how the coronavirus shutdown is affecting their business. I, today I published a Q and a with, um, a photographer who went viral during the quarantine for asking a girl out by sending her a drone with his phone number on it.

But he's also, he does a lot of portrait photography. So we talked about that. And then I'm also planning some virtual events for next week. And so I'm staying busy. All right. So the first day was last Monday, working at the profile.

And for somebody who's in and constantly talking to founders and investing and having built companies before, et cetera, I think one of the things that you forget is the excitement and enthusiasm of starting a company, especially for the first time on day one, et cetera. And Galena says to me last Monday, she goes, today's my first day at the Profile.

I hope my colleagues like me. They love me. And it just cracked me up because it was such a like pure view into like the enthusiasm starting something are you still excited i'm so i love it why i just oh there's something about like doing something for other people that gives you joy um i genuinely like am excited to send them the newsletter and i'm like oh my god they're gonna learn something today because i learned something you know what i mean yeah um so i i still love it all right and so you've got tens of thousands of people on the

free list you've got uh i don't i don't think i'm allowed to say how many paying but a good amount i'm pretty impressed actually um i thought that she was going to do well but she's doing much better than i even expected this is man it's not mansplaining no no it's it's a thing where uh whenever you see somebody start something just in your head you're like here would be like a conservative outcome here would be a good outcome here would be a great outcome and the great outcome at this point like you've surpassed that already so it's like i couldn't have even imagined you doing this one so it's a compliment not mansplaining i don't actually know what what is mansplaining i think you just mansplaining mansplaining it's okay just what is it i'll tell

you later i feel like that's a woman's planning but okay um and then uh you're also doing the dossiers yeah explain that um and so for the paying uh tier um i've added a new um section called the profile dossier where we go i do a deep dive on a prominent individual every wednesday um and the way i kind of structure it is i don't think of the person first i think about an idea that i want to learn about so last week it was uncertainty and i was like the world is so uncertain right now i want to know how people navigate uh chaos and how they have confidence in making decisions in times of chaos so i was like who's the best person that would embody that so i immediately thought of annie duke who's a professional poker player and she talks a lot

about decision making when you actually don't have an idea of what the future holds um so coming from that i did an information binge on her and compiled the best ideas from her interviews podcasts ted talks everything she's done into one um dossier so i'm biased obviously go sign up to the profile read the profile.com and you get what when people sign up if they're on the free list they get every sunday uh a whole list of recommendation they are very good in in all honesty uh of long form written profiles right and things like everyone from Kanye West to Gates to Musk to whoever that you find on the internet. And then if you're a paying member, what do I get? You get that email. You also get two sections of recommendations of

audio and video. So those include podcasts, speeches, interviews, TED Talks, and documentaries. And then you also get the profile dossier. And you also are added to a Telegram group of other profile readers where we talk about all sorts of stuff and debate all sorts of ideas. And it's my favorite place on the internet. And then in the future, I'll also have member-only events as well. Got it. Okay. How much does it cost? It costs $10 a month or $50 a year. It's a great investment. Yeah. Why wouldn't people just buy 50? No brainer. Okay. All right. Moving on. So just saying, we're going to take, we took a bunch of questions from the audience. Some of them are hilarious. So

we're going to get to that in a second, but I want to ask you about two things. One is what's going to happen in media. And then second, she doesn't even know I'm going to ask her about this. We just watched Tiger King. We're definitely going to talk about it. All right. So what's the state of media today and where do you think? Yeah. So I think you and I talk about this a lot, but like the idea that you build an audience and that audience is absolute key to building products or building new things in the future. But what I think my opinion is that people subscribe to people, subscribe to people, not large faceless organizations. So that means that's why if you notice newsletters are having such a moment, why Twitter personalities are having such

a moment, people want to know, like, it's just much easier for me to build a relationship with is a person versus the whole organization. So in my opinion, it's like, if I have a favorite profile writer at GQ, and I only go to GQ to read her stories, why on earth would I want to subscribe to all of GQ and get all of their stories when I could just subscribe to her and pay her directly and know that she is making money and I'm supporting her that way? I think that's it. All right. And speaking of media, Tiger King. How is that speaking of media? well i mean he's a entertainment legend

what's his name joe exotic right all right so joe exactly let's start with him what did you think we watched the whole thing oh no we have oh we have one episode left i don't actually yeah go just go so here's my opinion i have for some reason i did a podcast yesterday and i talked about this as well i don't know why it's because this is a hot topic i'm i'm relevant i'm cultural i know what's going on in the world i'm just trying to you know freshen things up so joe exotic i think it's fascinating especially if you like profiles and if you like people he is like a case study all on it all on his own but also the people around him like it's amazing to me that him and carol are such different people technically carol's the woman that he

he tried to kill? I don't with the spoilers. Um, so very different. They have but they're actually the Carol's doing it even bet killing it on social media basically they are running as big cat sanctuaries or

that she killed her husba um i mean we don't have all the facts but like they presented it pretty strongly like ah it seems like this guy disappeared and there's some foul but i don't know you don't know i don't know look i don't know for sure but that was kind of sketchy i mean yeah but i just would you big that's big would you cry if i disappeared i cry over anything all right that's a yes that's a yes all right let's let's get to uh some of the questions from the audience long story short on the tiger king is absolute must watch tv i mean just incredible entertainment all right here's the question what's the first one uh best and worst moments of the quarantine life with your fiance

this comes from charlie bleaker yeah like bleaker street all right and that's the name of a street right yeah all right bleaker street uh in new york city he only knows like like yeah of course hey you know gotta gotta get some pizza we had dominoes last night don't judge um all right best and worst moments of quarantine life with your fiance you go first best best yeah um it's kind of fun to like annoy you all the time not as fun as when he annoys me wait can i say the worst though yeah okay so the other day i'm in bed i am asleep it is seven in the morning and suddenly i'm like woken up by him jump like literally jumping like a rocket out of bed can't say who it is running out wait one can't say who it is okay running out it is on the phone

on speaker on speakerphone talking about like coronavirus theories and so here's the short story is i have this problem where i'm so used to always talking on speakerphone or with airpods in like i forget that the phone works if you put it to your ear which sounds ridiculous but just whatever and so i got woken up by somebody calling me and i jumped up out of bed and uh ran in the other room and was talking to this person but i had it on speakerphone and there was a text message that was sent to me but because i was on speakerphone and i was talking i didn't notice and the text message was a fairly aggressive is a way to say all caps turn them down so yes the whole communication out loud i've learned the headphone situation i actually even

have headphones here with cords so that when the airpods die i'm ready to go but that's good yeah not it's fine uh best and worst moments of quarantine life with my fiancee um well so the best is uh i say all the time plina is absolutely my best friend we have a blast together uh she did not pay me to say that either she didn't have enough money to pay me to say that because i don't have enough money to pay her to say that about me either because we actually love each other but see you guys see how i'm getting points right now uh the worst moment uh was not to do with her but uh we had to uh reschedule our wedding so we were going to get married in the middle of april uh we had to push it out a couple of months um to a to another date and uh it was

the worst because um you have to coordinate with all of these vendors all these people and we're having a very small wedding uh with basically just our families and so not like a lot of logistical problems but you really get to tell uh somebody's uh who they really are when they're faced with these times of turmoil and plena is very calm uh cool collected etc very kind to people uh pretty much the opposite of me a lot of times um but there was one person an airline united uh who would not give us a refund for flights for people from outside of the country coming here even though that country has a ban on traffic so literally it is against the government's law to have those people travel to the united states and united would not give us

a refund and so plena in a very um unexpected uh yet still polite but very unexpected way explain to them that they were going to give us a refund and so i think seeing you upset was a bad part of this because then when you're upset you know everybody knows you know happy wife happy life unhappy we gotta you know just be on pins and needles walk on some glass a little you know what i was thinking about before this interview is that i feel like i don't think you've ever gotten mad at me for something never i'm mad at you i'm chill am i not sure do you think that's because i'm just an angel and i do nothing wrong no that's so far from what the reason why it's not even close i don't know but i i don't get mad at you because again going back to the framework of

evaluation am i going to die the equivalent in a relationship is is this a reason for her to leave or me to leave no i'm chill then whatever knock yourself out but if it ever was something like that then i probably wouldn't be so chill except i will say i have witnessed him uh i've never played i don't think i've ever played like a game with you one-on-one so we played chess and you are terrible like you get mad you get upset because i'm competitive and i was smoking here listen to this nonsense i was up five nothing i won five games in a row five like when i was a kid if you beat somebody badly enough at a game they have to go home like they're done like playing madden you're up 21 they got to go home but when yeah but so i was up five nothing like if you lose

five games of chess in a row you should be banned retired forever from chess but i came back and then all of a sudden she started cheating like she would do things like oh uh the dominoes is here go get the domino and so i'd have to go get the dominoes and then when i would come back she was like analyzing the board for like 25 minutes and i'm like of course you are better prepared to play this game than me no okay so the second question here comes from steven stefan steven olman uh on twitter and he says uh how do you approach conversations when you disagree about something and both feel you have supporting data slash information go ahead oh well it's really hard to like argue with someone

it was very like convincing in a way that's like you're annoying I'm a great debater and I'm also chill which is a deadly combination you debate and you don't get heated when I debate

I lose my shit so who looks like the angel now in this relationship no but it's also like I don't know if that's I feel that way So anyways, when I feel strongly about something, pray for me, pray for me, guys, I think and I think most of our arguments have been overly stupid things where you won't agree with me. Yeah. And like I like I cannot exist in a world where we can have different opinions and you won't see my side or like you won't know what frustrates Blina is.

i'm actually i believe right i think i'm self-aware enough this i'm actually very good at saying i see your side but i disagree right and i hate and plinna that like doesn't comprehend it like like there's no computation that ends in that result it's either if you see my side then you agree with me right or you don't see my side the the mixture of those two things are very hard for her to comprehend and so uh you know me being a kind person i just allow it to go and keep going so let's move on to the third question comes from kevin kelly from delphi digital great great guys over there and he says in all honesty reaching down into your core do you think he oh he's talking about me do you think me uh do you think he'd rather give up mcdonald's or bitcoin jesus christ

all right what do you think definitely you would definitely give up bitcoin before you gave mcdonald's is the boldest claim i've ever heard i mean not a french fry ever again like watching me eat them the fries are pretty good but i you know what i like better at mcdonald's and the fries people are going to get real what do you like the mcflurries like they're they're amazing like if they sold if they sold frozen mcflurries at like the gas stations and the duane reed and cvs's and grocery stores etc i would get one every day so what's the verdict i'd give up mcdonald's for sure did you give up mcdonald's yeah from bitcoin yeah oh it's Because like one's fleeting, the other is going to be here forever.

Just saying. Is this an ad? It's not an ad. It's not an ad. It's just the truth. Go ahead. I think this one's for me. Master BTC LTC.

By the way, we love the Twitter avatars, the GIFs, and the usernames that people wrote in. But go ahead. Do you actually understand Bitcoin? How annoyed do you get with Pomp being on Twitter? And do you and Pomp send each other memes when you want to do something? So I understand the premise of Bitcoin, and I know a little just from like hearing you talk about it nonstop. But I cannot say that I could have like a legitimate, like long conversation. Okay, so let's test your knowledge.

Okay. How many Bitcoin are there? Right now or ever? Ever. 20 million. Wrong. Oh, shit. there's not 20 million you're close 20 million 21 21 million 21 million basically got it right

uh and then if you had to describe bitcoin in one sentence what would that one sentence be it is a it is an asymmetric non-correlated asset um wait what else can you say that's it just say that perfect you're a legend an asymmetric non-correlated acid that's a fact okay what's the next one uh how annoyed do you get with pomp being on twitter i think that's the biggest thing yeah probably like like like today i walked out i thought he was looking out the window like enjoying life like looking out and i just see like he's like on twitter scrolling i was answering i was answering somebody i don't know it's just polina if you guys have any tips on like work-life balance

with somebody who uh does their business on twitter let me know polina has convinced me to put my phone down more than i previously did yeah like we take walks and you don't it's true because i got an apple watch though in case anything happens all right go ahead what's next uh do you do we send memes to each other i'm listen i'm a meme god when it comes to sending memes but i lately uh what is it a meme yeah on instagram yeah the meme account i uh i d i use the dm thing where you take and you dm it and i just send it to her with no context and then she'll just be like why the fuck did you just send me these guys sitting in a living room on the couch watching gorillas fight on youtube and i'm like that's what they're

betting on now that sports are over or stuff like that and then sometimes what is that go ahead just go and then sometimes the camera's on and then sometimes he'll um send me something on he'll dm me something on twitter and it's like 17 charts with like 18 lines and i'm like what is this and he's like oh sorry i just um i just sent it to you so i could like use it as a bookmarking tool for myself yeah i saved it for myself so like what else genuinely trying to understand what's going on and what he wants to say and then i'm like oh no i just sent it to you so that i could to go back later and get it i'd love to hear a summary of common themes you've noticed when researching successful individual companies bonus what's one useful thing you've learned

from each other from all right what's the summary of common themes you've noticed when researching successful individuals and companies so the one thing i've learned is that um there's this there was this really great profile i read on a guy who is works as a um at a bodega and he makes sandwiches and he's from egypt so um egypt stand up go ahead i just felt like we're in a music video no we're not so but he's actually um he's really really he has like a studio that he's made in the bathroom of the bodega and he's actually like a political pundit in egypt uh talking about america and like you know different political things going on here and how it affects egypt So every day at like a certain time, he'll go into the bathroom and then, you know, like

he has a camera set up. There's, there's a map I think behind him and he does that. He does both. And my, my thing is, I love that you can be more than one thing in life. Like you are never just X or just Y. You can be a political pundit and, you know, a bodega owner, whatever you may, whatever you may be doing in life. but I think for me, that's really important because I tend to find something and wrap my

entire identity around it. And I think that thinking in that way is really helpful. What's, what's one useful thing you've learned from me? And then I'll tell people what I learned from you. Um, so I'm a pretty like moody person. So like, it takes like one thing to ruin my mood and I'm like, Oh, like the entire day is ruined. And I think what I've learned from you is that Like, you know, you're always just like having fun and not you. You don't let the little small minutiae ruin your whole day. Yeah. People can't shake me. It's fine. That's not. Yeah.

The one thing I've learned from Polina is to sleep before I met her. I was a savage. I would I literally sleep like four hours a day. I was just you ever heard the saying anything worth doing in life is worth overdoing. That's basically was my motto in life. and then i met plena and she was like let me teach you about uh drinking more water let me drink teach you about sleeping a little bit uh etc and uh at first i resisted it now amazing everyone should sleep eight hours sleep nine if you can it's amazing uh drink water a lot of water is good for you i didn't know that i just think it was soft drink water um but uh yes i learned

drink water and go to sleep yeah all right master higgins last one this is the last one yeah all right uh between the two of you who owns more crypto at the moment jesus christ go ahead tell them our rule okay so i don't own any crypto one time i tried but like it didn't let me because i don't think i was in the right state go ahead yeah um not mental state like actual state of america yeah okay um so so yeah so no i i do not own any crypto he says that you take all the risk and i basically polina has got to make sure that uh if i ever blow myself up uh that uh i don't blow both of us up at the same time so our rule is that i'll pull an exotic joe yeah joe exotic we don't need we don't need uh joe exotic pulling in uh wasn't the guy jeff low

jeff low scooting in with the by the way if if we don't get haircuts if like america can't get haircuts i want to know are we going bandanas mullets or both you were doing neither of them nah just so you guys know if i'm not out of here by the end of april i will have a mullet that's all i'm saying by the end of april by the end of april if we are not out of quarantine i'm going to get polina to look at youtube to look at uh what do they call them uh tutorials tutorials on youtube and she's gonna cut my hair into a mullet no fact watch so all right any of the parting words oh wait i have questions for you what's your favorite book my favorite book yeah your favorite i don't read well can i say one that i really liked sure you say whatever you

want okay it's basically your show at this point so i really so i really liked um house in the sky it's about uh this it's a true story it's a memoir it's about a Canadian journalist who went to Somalia and got kidnapped and held hostage for about a year it's pretty intense but I mean it's the most amazing thing I've ever read it's really well written um she's a really great storyteller and the things that happened in her life like really put everything into perspective can I ask a question uh because I'm genuinely curious what is the fascination that millennial girls have with murder mystery so i'm not one of those i'm not saying you are but like it just reminded like that's not a book that most people would recommend oh but at the same time

like i wouldn't think that people would listen to like podcasts going over like murders but they're incredibly popular and then there's like serial and like these like crime drama like stuff what see what is that fascination i think it's like the mystery and the kind of like thrill of it you know you're on the subway you're listening you're like did they catch him did not like i don't know that's like it's like an adrenaline thing like why do you do the crazy stuff you do well i don't do anything crazy just it's just crazy to other people because they're dumb um all right last question then you get asked me one question uh the people want to know do you believe in alien oh i i do why why do i we've never actually even talked about this

we've talked about their yeah um so i definitely think like humans are so ridiculously selfish and our egos are so big that to concede that there's like even the smallest possibility there are aliens out there like other forms of intelligence um wait do you remember the other day when i asked you when i asked you if you thought that like coronavirus could actually be like an alien she remember well i don't think it's a species but yeah it's like an alien you know infiltrator yeah i don't think it's an alien but okay it could have come from somewhere oh sure no that's not um but anyway yes i definitely think that there's other would you go to space uh no why i like earth what if i went would you come with me

no uh so when so when we go on uh when we go on vacation or like polina knows that me and her are gonna be around my brothers polina will usually say to me before we go you're not gonna make me do anything crazy with you guys right i know but like going to spaces i guess it is maybe it depends on how safe all right well one question do you have for me to uh do this this recording by the way has been in the making for a very long time uh polina has been offended that we haven't recorded this sooner well no i was just waiting for the right time and so guess when we're going to release it on april fool's day okay ask me a question i got things to do today um wait what was i gonna ask what question do you have um what is okay what is the biggest like specific

thing that you learned being in iraq that you brought back with you everyone's gonna die really yeah but like what about that like one of the biggest takeaways i had from war is the idea of like humanizing death in some weird way and maybe that's not the right way to describe it but what i mean by humanizing death is uh the concept of death is not um something that people experience on a very frequent basis and so when they experience it especially when it is with somebody that they know or in a situation that they can relate to etc i think that there's a big impact like here's a here's a very watered down example but it's simple when kobe bryant died the collective experience that everyone had of like i've

watched this guy felt like i saw him grow up i watched him play basketball like i knew everything about his life he's my age right like all of these things like oh he had a family like i did like whatever he crashed and like it was all taken away from unexpectedly like that could be me all of a sudden i think people are like whoa and they reassess certain parts of their life and how they focus on whatever uh that is a very extended version of that experience the closer it is to you um i think that you see people uh just like it sticks with them for a right and so i remember coming back and like it wasn't so much that i was like different in the way that i looked at life as much as it was um i just knew going back to the whole like are you

gonna die or not oh you're not gonna die like there's basically no risk right because you change the way that you think about risk when you realize you can always reinvent yourself you can always uh try something fail and like and you know survive you can always um take a lot of risk and be fine whether it goes well or not like all of a sudden you start to change the way you look at risk reward frameworks uh and so i would say easily like that was the one thing where you're just like oh shit like yeah like if this is a video game we all die right like there's no escaping a lot and so if that's the case then like you don't know when that's going to happen so like just go live your fucking life like have a blast right and so like that's why i'm probably so like carefree

and have so much fun it's like i have more fun than anybody in the world it's actually true hands down like i promise you literally there's times where polina will be like uh she'll walk into the living room she'll be like what are you doing and i'll just be like having a blast by myself and she's just like you're fucking weird but like i'm happy that you're happy and it's just like i literally could be by myself i could be with a bunch of friends i could be with complete strangers i could be with you i could be with a dog like whatever i'm gonna have a blast good that's is that fair all right go subscribe read the profile support polina please don't tweet anything bad that i said at me uh she is very lovely uh my twitter is a very kind

oh yeah hold on all right so the last thing i'll leave you guys with is anyone who's listening to this probably is uh has a similar twitter experience to me in that uh you know there's a lot of trolls and kind of combativeness uh whether it's in technology finance crypto business whatever um there's just kind of a lot of uh i was taught i can't say that the the d word measurement like everyone's you know uh dick measuring whatever it's fine but she doesn't like when i say that uh but like a lot of that stuff goes on and uh people are always like trying to one-up each other and be combative and one day polina handed me her phone uh on twitter and i was like this is the nicest place in the world these people are so kind to each other like what where what twitter are you

on because i i got the other version yeah like one time uh he was driving like i don't know hoping you'd tweet and i kept refreshing the feed and it was like i mean there were a lot of notifications but like 90 percent of them were like you know hope you have an awful day or something like meaner than that that would be that would be a nice comment my favorite is uh i have a group chat with uh with my brothers um and i got a couple of friends and there's times where i've literally like woken up see a notification i'll screenshot it and i'll send it to them and it'll be like a random tuesday and somebody tweeted me like fuck you pop i'm like have a great day guys meanwhile on my twitter it's like how can we best and i like it that way please please

let it stay all right guys this is a blast maybe we'll do this a little bit more often uh go subscribe read the profile.com go follow polina on twitter hopefully she'll become as addicted as i will she'll leave me alone a little bit more let me have some fun and we will talk to you guys soon hey everyone pop here if you like this episode of off the chain and want to help us take crypto to the top of the apple spotify and other podcast charts please do us a favor and rate review and subscribe to review simply go to the off the chain homepage scroll down until you see the five blank stars taking 15 seconds to fill those stars in and leave a quick review goes a long way in helping us take the entire crypto ecosystem to the top of the charts

i appreciate you listening and see you next time on off the chain