The Pomp Podcast - #262: Tim Kennedy on Individual Freedom and Responsibility During The Crisis

Episode Date: April 6, 2020

Tim Kennedy is the Founder of Sheepdog Response, a company focused on training in self-defense, martial arts, and weaponry. Kennedy is also a Ranger qualified Special Forces Sniper with almost 20 deployments under his belt. Prior to his retirement from professional mixed martial arts, Tim was ranked among the top Middleweights in the UFC, while also fighting in almost every competitive MMA league that exists. Tim has been featured on many television shows, most recently “Hunting Hitler” on the History Channel, and Hard to Kill on the Discovery Channel. In this conversation, Tim and Anthony discuss the historical examples of crises being used to reduce freedom, the importance of civil liberties and personal freedom, where Tim has seen the aftermath of freedom being taken from citizens, how stupidity is not illegal, and we cover a number of recent examples of potential violations of the constitution that are concerning.  =============================== BlockFi allows you to keep your crypto, put it up as collateral, and receive a USD loan funded directly to your bank account. Visit try.blockfi.com/get-50/?ref=pomp50 to get started with BlockFi today and earn up to $50 in BTC when you create an interest account and make a deposit of $250 or more. ===============================

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off The Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. Tim Kennedy is the founder of Sheepdog Response, a company focused on training in self-defense, martial arts, and weaponry. Tim is also a ranger-qualified special forces sniper with almost 20 deployments under his belt. Prior to his retirement from professional mixed martial arts, Tim was ranked among the top middleweights in the UFC and also fought in almost every competitive MMA league that exists. Tim has been featured on many television shows, most recently Hunting Hitler on the History Channel and Hard to Kill on the Discovery Channel. In this conversation, we discuss the historical examples of crises being used to reduce freedom, the importance of civil liberties

and personal freedom, where Tim has seen the aftermath of freedom being taken from citizens, how stupidity is not illegal, and we cover a number of recent examples of potential violations of the Constitution that are concerning. I really enjoyed this episode, and Tim didn't disappoint. Before we get into the episode, though, I want to quickly cover today's sponsor, BlockFi. Right now, they're running a special. You can go deposit $250 in one of their interest-bearing accounts, and if you hold it there for three months while you earn interest at up to 8.6% APY, they'll give you $50 in free Bitcoin. If you deposit $250 or more into their interest-bearing account, hold it for three months, they'll give you $50 in free Bitcoin. It's a no-brainer.

Use the link in the description if you want to sign up. There's about five days left before this special ends, so go check out BlockFi and deposit $250, hold it for three months, and you'll get 50 bucks and free Bitcoin. All right, now let's get into this episode with Tim. Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Tim. We've got a lot to cover today. So thanks so much for doing this. My pleasure. Absolutely. You are in Austin, Texas. What's a COVID-19 quarantine like down in Texas? So I run a defensive tactics and security consulting company out of the property that I live on I live on land so it's kind of like a ranch and a farm you know so I have maybe 900 pounds of hunted meat I have wells and solar um you know like my my day-to-day has not changed much I have to interact with people less not because of me but because of them um so uh yeah like I still shoot three times a week I still train six times a day or six times a week um you know i'm still up early and bed late so i saw you posted on instagram you got your

chickens a new coop and everything it seems like just business as usual yeah those ladies are lucky man they got they like tripled their their their square footage so i love it brats but before we get into the conversation kind of around uh personal freedoms of liberties maybe just give us a quick rundown of your background you you've done a whole bunch of different things and then we can get into kind of what sheepdog is as well okay um so i guess i have been in like the protecting serving and saving business my entire life my first job was a firefighter emt um i did that from 18 until 23 uh i was in grad school when 9-11 happened i had just finished the police Academy. And I went from my job to the recruiter's office at about 10 a.m. to stand in line with

about a thousand other people to try and enlist. So that was my 9-11. On 9-11, they gave me a deferred, delayed enlistment so I could finish grad school. And then I went in as an 18 x-ray, which is a special forces recruit, which means I get to go straight to special forces selection. And if I get selected after basic infantry school and airborne school and a couple of preparation schools, if I get selected, I get to go to special forces training. If I finish special forces training, I get to go to an ODA. So that was 16 years ago that I was selected. And for the past 15 and a half years i have been a green beret and filled the job of a sniper counterterrorism hostage rescue um a lot of fid which is born internal defense and j sets joint combined

exercises for training well i'm throwing those acronyms out there because those will come become relevant as we start talking about developing countries that are kind of following our playbook about when to grab liberties. So I've been in places like Trinidad, Tobago, and Jamaica and Dominican Republic after horrific earthquakes and tsunamis. And I have seen what governments can do in these times of crisis. And obviously being alive and being an adult during the time of the Patriot Act when 9-11 kicked off. So aside from my military career, I'm an entrepreneur. So I own six different businesses three of them are in kind of one is a government contractor so we go and do jobs for the government security jobs and then we have a security consulting company

so somebody comes to us and says hey i have a problem whether that's private investigating bodyguard work or physical protection of them like that's something we also do and then we I also have a training company where we – like last year, we trained 2,000 Americans in how to deal with a situation like we're experiencing right now. So that is my full-time job. That's what I do. The other companies are Ranger Up, which is a military apparel line. woobie shoes which is um i think the best kind of tactical shoes out there and then uh relentless which is a full body meal supplement replacement system for uh idiots like me that travel and work

a lot yeah so you know as kind of somebody from afar i think one way to summarize a lot of what you've done is just around like individual responsibility um and uh you had the military experience you've done that for a while uh you've got these uh private companies obviously you're operating in kind of various ways uh but you also took a period of time and fought in the ufc etc maybe just describe a little bit about that period of time um and then we can kind of wrap it all into what you're doing now yes it's hilarious that i like skip over what i guess a lot of people know me for i fought professionally for 17 years um i fought for the world title uh in strike force twice so i fought for the ufc i fought for strike force i fought for ifl i fought for the wc

so the largest fighting organizations on the planet i was uh a contender in all of those different fight leagues um and then i did a bunch of television on history channel and discovery channel i had my own show called hard to kill which was kind of survival-ish um dirty jobs meets like jobs that will kill you kind of and then um a tv show where i went around the world trying to hunt nazis and uh guys that maybe escaped the nuremberg trials yeah uh you have lived a life i think a lot of people uh wish they could um but i think your resounding message is uh you've got to kind of put the work in to be prepared um and you're still uh operating today uh as a green beret yeah absolutely yeah i'm uh actually just got back my one of one of my last

one of the last flights in from where I was, I think there were two flights after the flight that I was on to come back kind of pre COVID. So I mean, I barely snuck in before shutdown of international flights from these places. As an aside, I read an article this morning, there's a couple that went to the Maldives on their honeymoon, and they didn't get on the last flight. And so they now are the only people at the resort, but they're having to continue to pay every night and they're afraid it's going to bankrupt them and so they're like stuck in paradise was kind of the thought process which sounds cool until you realize like hey that's pretty expensive and there's no uh end in sight of when you can come back yeah um that's kind of

back to individual responsibility of like yeah this is really nice i'm just gonna you know take care of myself and and stay in this like resort place uh until it doesn't work out and you forget that you have bigger responsibilities. For sure. So I want to kind of get into this conversation around, you are one of the strongest proponents and most vocal proponents of kind of the American ideals, American freedoms, et cetera. You've literally dedicated your life in various ways to either one, protecting that, right, as kind of a direct action in military, et cetera, but also too, through Sheepdog and the training you guys do, training both law enforcement and also just average Americans on how to protect themselves, their families, and those ideals. But you

mentioned this idea that during times of crisis, there are incredible overreach by governments, not just the United States government, just governments around the world. Let's kind of go back in history and then maybe bring it to the present day, whether you want to talk about the Patriot Act or some of the things that you've seen in other countries where that overreach has kind of presented itself and how you've experienced that or seen it. Yeah, I think one of the greatest examples, truthfully, is Adolf Hitler. Adolf Hitler used an economic opportunity where Germany at the time was destitute. They were hurting. And they really had no esprit de corps about who they were and an identity. And, well, I think 90, 95% of Germans in 1943 would be against the gassing

of jews um they were carried in this momentum and this power and this thrust of of nationalism versus patriotism those are kind of different things and and also the the cry of the general population of needing to do something and fear so after world war one um you know the the one of the the most horrific wars in human history um where really mechan where we had really mastered the art of killing other humans um with gas and machines and and bombs this was the first war where we could kill in a in a mass scale and um the horrors coming back from that there was fear and um and some even some of the same fears that we have right now is am i going to have money to pay for my food? Am I going to have money to pay for my home? Am I going to have money to pay for

clothes for my kid to go to school? Those same fears existed then. And the Germans, the German people, were running for solutions, and they didn't know what those were. And up came lots of different possibilities. And one of those was the National Socialist Party, which was led by Adolf Hitler. And we saw where that went. We could go time and time and time again throughout history where we see people that are struggling, people that are sometimes starving, sometimes just in fear, and they are looking for a solution to be given to them. Long story short is nothing can ever be given to you. That's it. Everything that you want and everything that you think that you want is really on the far side of hard work. If they're going to give it to you, that means they

have to take it from somebody else. Money just doesn't come from nowhere. They're like, ah, we now have free education or we now have like free health care like if it's free that means they took it from somebody and freedoms are one of the most difficult things to perceive as a commodity like food and education and health care those are like those aren't these existential concepts those are tangible things that we can we can pick up right um that we can go and get a prescription or that we can put in our mouth. But the freedom of speech or the freedom to paddleboard or the freedom to assemble, those are things that we think we understand until the government says, no, you can't do them. And then you go, oh, wait, how does this really apply to

me? I've, you know, working in South America, Argentina, Chile, Venezuela, also three great examples just in the past 10 years where we have seen um through economic crisis people give up their civil liberties because they think they're trying to find a better solution but that better solution ends up being this more this like horrific nightmare where you're living in purgatory where like oh i don't know if i have enough money for food now it's like not only do i not have enough money i'm not allowed to go buy it i have to go wait in line in front of a store with 2 000 people in front of me for a chance to get some, because the government is going to provide it. Yeah, I don't know. That was kind of a tirade, but those are historical examples.

But what I think that you're really highlighting here is there's what I'll call like overt, you know, kind of stealing of freedom, where literally I'm going to say, you can't go do something, right? And you know, and I both know, like, there's a line in the sand, right? And so, Tim, you can no longer leave the state of Texas would be like an example of something. But there's also things that are done kind of in the shadows, right? And this is where you get, you know, in a country like Venezuela, kind of the hyperinflation, what it's really doing is it's just stealing the wealth of, you know, the average citizen, and it's enriching people who own the real assets, the government or the dictator, etc. And so I think what you're really talking about is less about the structural, like economic things that are done, because those aren't really immediately seen by the population. They just know, hey, bread's a little bit more expensive than it was yesterday. And after a couple of months of that, they realize, wait a second, it's doubled in price. but the things that are really really i think aggressive uh and especially happen in times of crisis are these like overt uh encroachments on freedom and so we're seeing a couple of examples

now and i'll just kind of go through a few examples that we're seeing maybe you can riff on them uh so the one that uh got me to to reach out to you about doing this was uh there's this paddle boarder in la uh he's in the water and absolute epic video where you've got i think two or three lifeguard boats like flying around the ocean by the pier trying to get this guy and he and he's just giving them the moves man i mean he's just paddling right around the boats and they eventually caught him and arrested him but just kind of your take on it was like hey enjoy your 60-day free trial of communism so like what's kind of the thoughts there well uh there was some great response where like people like yourself recognize that so communism unless

you've been to places that are socialist or communist in nature i'm not talking like um People talk about Sweden or Finland or Denmark. That's not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the Taliban. It can be a form of socialism. Think about that. Al-Qaeda and ISIS can be forms of socialism more so than any of these northeast or northwestern European countries. um so that that is where your kind of entire existence is is being dictated by you for the greater good of everyone else with you so the government tells you what you're supposed to do how you're supposed to do it and when you're supposed to do it and the reason for them telling you this is so that it's it's fair and even for everybody um there's there's some two inherent problems with that one it removes all individual motivation for success so i have no incentive to go and be successful at something because if I'm incentivized and I get more than

the next person, they have to take that away from me. So the next guy next to me gets the same amount, regardless of how much work he did. So that removes my initiative and my incentive to go do something. This specific paddleboarder, you're joking about leaving Texas as a line in the sand. That is a line in the sand now. People from Louisiana cannot come into Texas. um like we i mean we're literally talking about east and west berlin right now where the government just said here is this arbitrary line you people are not allowed to cross it um not not for any other reason besides we said so and it's for your best it's we promised it is for the it's for the best of everybody not for you not for you necessarily i don't care if your grandma is

going through chemo, and you're the caretaker, and you live in Beaumont, and you're trying to get to Shreveport, that's not my problem. Really, this is just for everybody. So you're just going to have to let your grandma die, because we care about everybody, not you. So paddle border, LA. It's cool that you're bringing up LA, because that had another specific example of a direct infringement. The LA County Sheriff, he told all of his deputies to go to the gun stores and close them all down because he did not think they were essential forms of business. So essential businesses were ones that kind of sustain your living and your kind of health. He looked at gun stores as not one of those things, and he told his deputies to go and close those things down.

Fortunately, superior courts and federal government kind of stepped in and said, hey, you can't do that. You have to allow these guys to continue to operate business, and we do view these as essential businesses. Even more hilarious is he circumvented that and tried to go through a court of appeals within California to then limit what they were allowed to do. And then he sent business inspectors to make sure that those specific businesses were following the CDC, WHO, and state guidelines so then they could shut them down on process indiscretions about the distance that one customer was standing from the next customer. Insanity. So back to LA. Dude is on the Pacific Ocean on a paddleboard. The only people within maybe 1,000 meters are the people trying to arrest him.

So I'm not talking six feet. We're talking like 1,000 meters, you know, like just over a half a mile, three-quarters of a mile. And there's lifeguards trying to come in. There's L.A. County sheriffs, deputies on the beach with bullhorns. There's an L.A. County boat cruising out on the far side of the breakers, and the crime this dude committed was he was paddleboarding. So if we're going to try and say, okay, Patriot Act, great example of the government being, okay, let's go grab as much as we possibly can. why they like motivations were pure i i think that they were trying to do the right thing or which was trying to stop another attack um you can't help but but look at the freak what was that

star wars movie or emperor palpatine who's like darth sidious the worst dude ever when when the senate gives him like the authority to go declare war and start the clone army he's like oh with this great responsibility at the end of these trying times i promise i will give all of this power back and then he's electrocuting people with his fingers right um like metaphorically that's hilarious in reality and historically that is exactly what happens every single time somebody gets power it's never given back and they they except in times of these these extreme circumstances it's always incremental right like the second amendment nobody's ever going to come kick in the door and say, give me all your guns. But what they will do is enact another law,

enact another restriction, enact another high capacity ban. We're going to change the name of something. We're going to add that this is the Child Protection Gun Safety Act. We're going to say that, okay, you can own your guns, but you can only buy this much ammo. And then you have to do a background check. So like every single time, it's just a little bit more, a little bit more. And this is the constant struggle that we have to push against until something like this happens then the government goes this is a great opportunity to take whatever we can because it's like what it's like it's all you can eat buffet give me the first amendment give me the second amendment give me the third amendment matter of fact i'll just go through every single one of

them and grab as much as i can this moment because people are in fear and people do dumb things when they're scared yeah one of the things that um is really interesting so you talked about kind of that uh louisiana texas border right uh one of the other examples is in rhode island uh the governor tried to shut the border right and when she couldn't shut the border lawyers basically said hey that's unconstitutional she then went to okay well i'm going to do one better we're going to put police on the highway if they see new york plates we're going to pull those people over for having new york plates and then we're going to take the military and the police and we're going to have them patrol transportation hubs and oh by the way if you're a citizen in rhode island and you know

somebody came here from new york call us and we'll go visit them yeah i mean just do yeah we should take I don't know what the emblem is for New York but maybe like the Yankees or or like the Jets or something and we should take that and have that sewn onto everybody's shirts and like but like in a yellow material maybe even like a star yeah maybe not even like the New York Yankees thing maybe just like a star like a star of David just have them sewn on their shirts so then we know who they are and we can just go grab them up nobody's ever thought of that before no no no so if you then take it a step further right because i i agree with you that like the paddleboard thing is like pretty ridiculous and you watch it and if you're watching it from the the sense of

like we're spending all these resources and literally there's boats chasing a paddleboarder and he's kind of giving them the shakes like okay we can laugh about it but there is some serious aspect to it but then when you go to kentucky where a judge ordered a man to wear a uh gps enabled ankle bracelet because he had been ordered to quarantine. He had been in contact with somebody who had been infected and he kept violating it. So the solution here was let's literally put an electronic tracker on your ankle and therefore we'll know if you leave quarantined. It just feels like the lawyers are going to have a field day with this stuff once it's all over. Yeah, and I hope they do. While I hate that we're in a litigious era of society, and I think that

is another way that we're kind of eroding um i'm all for anytime you enact a new law or set a new precedent an old one has to go away um you know like anytime you keep adding on to this you like you you get this count compounded j curve and then this exponential growth of law happens and then ultimately everything comes crashing down because you know anyways that's a different conversation um yeah a bunch of problems the first is that when you you start looking as these these these individual examples and use that as leverage to hold a greater group of people responsible um that those are incidental examples that they're like that is not a representation of the greater community. The greater community is trying to do the right thing. But when you

take individual examples and use that individual example to circumvent law and then try to take the larger population and erode their freedoms or their rights because of one idiot and the greater people are letting that happen, you can just get used to more of the same. Because once they do it a few times, they'll continue to do it every single avenue and an aspect that they can that they can grab. Yeah. And this is where I think you get kind of this intersection of the personal responsibility and the freedom. Right. And what I mean by that is like you and I are relatively young, relatively healthy compared to others. And therefore, we have the responsibility to ensure those in our lives are taken care of. But also you're taking risk. If you go outside

today and you contract coronavirus, right? That's a choice you made. You got infected and you have to deal with ramifications. And so I think that there's this debate across society, right? At what point are you endangering other people versus just endangering yourself? And when you overlay the personal responsibility, most people actually are doing the right thing. But these, you know, I call them like their stupidity and there's just douchebags. And being stupid or being a douchebag isn't illegal. It's just you're stupid or you're a douchebag. And so how you try to balance that in society, is it through social pressure, right? Or is it actually where people eventually just turn and say, I am so fearful, but I'm willing to give up my freedom because I want to keep those

people in their apartments, in their homes, et cetera. It's just a really, really kind of bad conversation when people aren't optimizing for the freedoms because they're so overrun with the fear yeah um i i think that you should fear is the worst emotion ever to base decisions about freedoms off of right um and when we're so individual responsibility is it my choice to go outside yes um and the idea of individual responsibility is so i'm a libertarian like not like a crazy libertarian maybe a little bit but um i i believe that nobody should have a say in what i do unless what i do affects somebody else negative um and so if i go out and i get corona that's that's that's my problem um where corona gets

kind of gray hazy is because of there's the number of asymptomatic people that there are where you can contract corona and i don't know that i have corona and i can still go transmit to other people so i'm negatively impacting other people so under this idea of kind of individual responsibility i can't just have the consequences for my actions just happen to me because supposedly and i'm putting a little asterisk supposedly um one fifth to 25 percent of people are asymptomatic. So I could, if I don't know, go out and spread it to other people. What is, I think, an element that people aren't considering is the beauty of capitalism and how capitalism can really be the equalizer to this conversation, where if you're calling them

douchebags or a selfish person, if you are seeing a business or a person that you don't like what they're doing, you get to vote with your dollars. And that shapes the success and failure of that business. And I think a lot of people have looked at entrepreneurs, people like me, who have been saying, we are not thinking about the second and third order effects of this pandemic, because what i'm balancing is the cost of lives versus what is the number of people that are going to die from the virus so that's going to be whatever hundreds of thousands of people that might die potentially um and who those people are versus the other group of people in the second and third order effects that could die from the not from the virus but from the second third order effects

So you shut down. I'm just going to use Disneyland as an example. So you shut down Disneyland. Disneyland employs, let's just say, 100,000 people. Of those 100,000 people, how many of those people had any savings in their bank accounts? Not very much. The average American has about $400 in his or her savings account. So that's not enough to pay for a one-month rent. So if this goes on for more than one month, they can't pay their rent. So we fortunately are able to – I say fortunately, asterisk. We can freeze evictions and bankruptcies. So me as a landlord, I can't kick somebody out because they're not paying me, but I know that they still will be paying me. And that person knows that that tally is continuing to grow, and that hole that they're in economically is going to continue to get deeper. now socioeconomic conditions are one of the largest influences to suicide to depression

and to drug abuse so the poorer somebody gets the more often you see depression you see suicide and you see drug drug and alcohol abuse um the percentage of suicide grows as does the so the more drug abuse and alcohol abuse there is the more socioeconomically disadvantaged somebody is the more likely they are to have suicide. So now as this pendulum is swinging and the second and third order effects of people losing their homes after they've lost their job, the business is not going to come back. The McDonald's that was on the corner, it was already barely making enough money as it was. Now they're definitely not going to be making enough money. They're just not going to reopen. McDonald's is going to relocate to a different place or maybe not even. Chipotle,

not going to open. They're going to pick and choose where these new, what stores are going to be opening. That is going to have a profound economic effect. And those people that have been, were destitute before, now they are truly struggling. So it actually hurt my feelings a little bit when I looked at your comments, when you asked what questions would we ask? and one of the guys said, why is Tim Kennedy so insensitive to the minorities or outliers of society? Truth be told, the second and third order effects are going to be more damaging to those people than anybody else. So if you really strategically and economically look at what I'm trying to do and how I'm trying to save lives in this conversation that we're having,

we could seriously be losing way more people through suicide drug drug overdoses um and alcohol abuse and the kids that are going to be homeless and like we know what happens when somebody loses their home like how hard it is to get back off of the street now you're going to have how many kids that are going to be homeless like nobody's even started to calculate the economic effect of these second third order problems i mean we're talking way more than one or 200,000 people, way more. We're talking up into the millions if this trajectory of what we're doing to our economy continues. So this isn't an economy versus lives conversation. This is a lives versus lives conversation. And then what are those lives going to look like regarding

freedoms that are going to be eroded during the snatch? So this is a complex, nuanced problem, and people are just making it oversimplifying and like oh it's lives versus economy no it's not no it is not don't don't call me like this hypocrite that i'm that i'm being an asshole just because i'm bringing up the economy i'm bringing up the economy because i'm trying to save lives because i know what happens look at venezuela and ask how many lives have been lost when the the platform the the strategic solution to this economic disaster is socialism yeah well Well, one of the things that I don't think people quite have wrapped their head around. So this is maybe two, three weeks ago, I wrote something where I went back and I looked at

the Great Depression unemployment numbers. And in 1929, the start of the Great Depression, unemployment was 3.1%. We were just at 3.5 at the end of February. So very similar, kind of very low economic. It went from 3.1 to 8 to 15 over the next two years. And then eventually went up over 20%, like everyone knows and kind of cites those numbers. But three of the five years of the Great Depression, it was sub 20% unemployment. We already have seen in the last two weeks, 10 million new unemployment claims.

And so we're already hovering in that kind of seven and a half to eight and a half percent, depending on how you count it, of what's actually been reported. That's not actually the true number because there's many more people who aren't actually reporting it. And so if you just use that number, let's just say that 10 million people in the last two weeks have filed for unemployment. Those are service workers, hospitality, restaurants, all these things. tend to be lower socioeconomic, there's actually more people who have lost their jobs than have

been confirmed to have coronavirus in the United States by at least, you know, 5x. And so it's just you start to get into this thing of, I think, to your point, like the lives versus lives. It's not just a one for one. We're actually talking about many more people are being affected economically than we understand yet on the virus side. And that doesn't necessarily mean the virus isn't real or isn't bad it just means that there's two sides to this uh conversation and a lot of people don't understand the second side around the economic component and how that affects lives yeah i'm just gonna i'm gonna add more wind to what you're saying here when you're talking about unemployment numbers you're talking about one working body but that one working body typically

has two to three people that are living off of them right so a single household is going to have maybe, you know, 1.3, 1.4 workers per household. So you do have stay at home moms or stay at home dads. And then they have, you know, like what right now in America, we have 2.1 children per couple. So, you know, we're talking three people per worker. And when you're talking that you're having three to four, maybe even five times the number of people that are filing for unemployment than have Corona, that's just the people filing for unemployment. Then you have to multiply that number by another three. So now we're talking about, you know, maybe 30 million people that just lost their source of income. And then if we're just going to keep talking numbers of that

30 million people, once that, like, how long does it take that 30 million people who were already poor in industries that are not going to be coming back for them to be homeless? And then once they're homeless, how long does it take for things to go really bad where you start seeing upticks in crime where you see upticks in drug abuse you see upticks in suicide it's it's it's we're talking weeks that's how fast that happens weeks one of the things that uh i think people have uh going back to this idea of like if you start with these slow little um stealing of freedom it also happens with how uh people are told uh about a bad situation so first it was we're gonna shelter in place for two weeks then it was let's add another two weeks then it was

you know hey here's another week now we're hearing virginia dc a bunch of these states are saying june 10th and the reason why june 10th is so important is if you go back let's call kind of when people started to really take this seriously middle of march you're now talking about march to april april to may may to june so three months 90 days where those businesses are not going to be turned on even if they could on day one turn them back on hire everyone back and start paying them you're going 90 days. There's very, very few people in this country who can go 90 days with no income and be okay. Yeah. Oh man. There there's people that, that, that can't go a week, a week, like the majority of, um, so I, God has blessed me and I'm, you know, I'm not going to

go into that, but I, right now, and as I'm trying to not stay like in the black, I'm trying to like stay right at the line and hire as many people as i can because i had people even like in in my immediate circle that have been laid off have been furloughed and they are they were one week i mean it took five days of no work for them to be like hey man you have anything for me to do and i was like we'll figure it out like yes let's yep come on bro let's figure it out um One week. Now, you're talking 90 days of no income. That's a hard thing. If you've never been poor, if you've never lived paycheck to paycheck, that's a hard thing to understand. where you get paid and you go and buy like enough white bread and the crappiest peanut butter and

whatever brand um you know from kroger or vaughn's or or costco not costco because they can't afford a membership um can they get the cheapest that will last the longest um and that's paid every single paycheck now you take one paycheck immediately they don't have any food immediately So now they would go out on the street and ask for money, or they'd go and get a second job. But there's nobody driving, and there's no jobs to be found. So not only do they not have any food, but they have no additional opportunity to try and make up for that deficit. So now we're in the slippery slope of 30 million people that are now immediately thrust into poverty. And there's not really bouncing back from that. When we look at the similarities in the Great Depression numbers, how long it took for us to come out of that, it's a frightening thing.

So when you're having conversations and people are having conversations about lives versus the economy, that's not what it is. You know, it's really like, it's lives versus lives and freedom. And, you know, I really do want to highlight when you said, like, it wasn't just shelter in place, it was first, try to practice social distancing. And then it was, okay, try your best to stay home. Non-essential businesses, stay closed. Then it was shelter in place. And then it was, in some places, church congregations, not only can you not congregate in social distancing, if you do, here are the new laws that you're going to be violating. and i mean so like i i have a lot of land let's just say i wanted to on top of this hill put a big microphone and say all right church we can meet in my field it's a beautiful day um i have x's and all the x's are measured to be um six feet distance from everybody um so you have to stand on your x we'll all worship together um regardless of buddhist hindu muslim christian whatever um because that's like the point and like we can't do that think about that

like the government has said that we cannot assemble we cannot assemble even in the limitations of distance we cannot assemble in that and the few ways that we're able to converse about this is kind of through social media and that in itself is a limited form of of our ability of free speech because every one of those different platforms to communicate has its own agenda and each of those limits what kind of conversations can take place and who can be who can participate in those so really like the first amendment is gone in in a month it took one month for us to be like okay we don't need that one anyways yeah we don't well and i think part of this is like the right to assemble, right? The right to free speech. And you start walking

through, like you said, every single one of these amendments and you start to see how it almost feels like there's an entire pocket of population. I actually don't think it's the majority, but there is a pocket of population when you or I, or somebody else says online, wait a minute, timeout, you're violating the constitution by doing X, whether it's the paddle border, whether it's Rhode Island, you know, you can't go to Texas, whatever the example is. There's a ton of people who say it's for the greater good right and kind of falls back on that fear and this whole thing but what i try to remind people is like the constitution is not a sometimes thing or it's not a hey you can apply the constitution when it's uh convenient for you guys but when you don't want

us to have the constitution you can basically take it away and that element of like it is a persistent right to freedoms i think is getting lost in some of this because that that feeling of temporary component right like oh this is only for a few weeks to your point either one doesn't come back or two there's such a loss of freedom and civil liberties that it just doesn't look the same when it comes back yeah the you know the argument about the it's it's you in instagram or twitter if you hashtag constitution or bill of rights you know you're you're audio automatically penalized. You know that? I did not know that. No, I'm serious. Try it. Do the exact same tweet and do like a hashtag bill of rights or hashtag constitution or both of them. And then do the

same tweet without those and see which one has more likes and more retweets. It's a fascinating little experiment that you have to do, but you have to kind of do it blind to your audience. So you have your legitimate, so you'll see in the algorithm that you're automatically penalized for using that so an argument about the constitution is anytime that it's brought up like it's it's this anodated it's it's this yellowed expired ideas that were that were founded and written by a bunch of landowning racists slavers um what all is idiotic but most importantly is that we have the supreme court the supreme court's sole purpose is to view the constitution as a living document. And they, through current times, they apply it to what is happening and how it is

relevant to the current day, current conversations, current vernaculars, current verdicts. Everything about current makes the point of the Supreme Court, the only purpose that the Supreme Court has is to be able to interpret the Constitution to current day. So it could not be any more relevant now than it was in 1776 like it is as relevant in this day and as important as it was at the founding of our country and it is it is a very dangerous precedent when we willingly the the point of the supreme court is to be able to somebody complain so me as a texan um trying to drive to Louisiana or New York or trying to drive to New Hampshire. And I get pulled over and I get arrested. And they say, here is your ticket or here are your handcuffs. You're going

to go sit in jail and then we're going to move you back to New York or, hey, we're going to let all of the prisoners go out of our jail because we don't want them to contract Corona. But then we're going to be arresting and finding people because they're breaking our new laws. And then And one of those released prisoners comes over and rapes somebody. Awesome. I'm going to sue the crap out of the government. Anyways, eventually it ends up at the Supreme Court. And the Supreme Court looks at what constitution, how the constitution applies to this argument.

But there's so many things that have to happen before it gets to the Supreme Court. And that's the ever-so-slight erosion where we just lose these kind of microscopic, like the tiniest, almost imperceivable portions of freedoms granularly. Just bit by bit, we get walked back. Sometimes it never even – more often than not, it never makes it to the Supreme Court. And the government and the local government, the state government, and the federal government tries to circumvent the Supreme Court because the Supreme Court is the final authority on what happens with the Constitution. So these three little checks and balances before the Supreme Court are their opportunities to try and prevent it ever getting to them and just being able to take as much as they can bit by bit. um and uh like even the patriot act you know we keep referencing it so 9-11 planes flying into some buildings right uh the pentagon the two towers um a bunch of heroes fight back and

it crashes in a field um you know there there might have been another plane that was looking to go to the white house um and right after that we realized just like in pearl harbor that we were blind to what was really happening that we that maybe the the second worst intelligent failure of since pearl harbor was 9-11 um we knew that there were these extremists that there are these fanatic fundamentals fundamentalists that hated our way of life they had tried to do things before but kind of unsuccessfully and so then 9-11 happens 3,000 people perish and it gave the government every single authority we it didn't we the people gave the government the absolute authority out of fear because we didn't want to see any more Americans having to jump out of

buildings and have to make a decision do I burn alive or do I jump to my death we said no we never want to see that again I don't care what it costs go ahead and do everything so we gave them access to our cell phones, to our emails, that we had no expectation of privacy through any communication that happened not in person. And then we're like, well, what about in person? Can the government be able to wiretap things that would have been private or the expectation would have been private? And what level of authority would the government need, whether it's like a warrant, or can we create a different type of judge that could provide those warrants in like these critical times, as long as it supported this, the greater good. So we just

like started handing all of these freedoms away. The motivation again was great. You know, they wanted to stop a terrorist act from happening. We have never gotten those freedoms back. Now, um if you know we're having a conversation at the dinner table and we're we're like hey um it sure would be great if if we went to if we went to disney world and and had a great vacation there and then two hours later i pick up my instagram and so lo and behold there's an advertisement for disneyland and for disney world and for a vacation there wow that's fantastic we know that happens, right? If I search it, cookies saved. That was so invasive 15 years ago. We would have never imagined that that could have happened, that that would happen. I remember my grandparents,

when they're talking about the government, they would take their phone off of the hook, right? And then they would have conversations. Sometimes they'd even unplug the phone. if if they i i know they they roll over their in their grave if they could see now that what happens to that that we willingly accept this invasion of privacy that there's not an element of our life that is truly private um they i know my my my grandparents that fought in world war ii would come and stab me in the neck yeah one one of the things that um i really think through is this trade-off between, you know, convenience and privacy or security. And I think you're highlighting it here of like, we all want the cell phone. So we walk around with it because

we can call people, we can get on the internet, on Instagram, all this stuff, but it also provides now a tracking device, a listening device, et cetera. I don't think we've really seen kind of, at least across the American population in certain examples, we've seen it, but not yet where those have been used to steal freedom of movement or um kind of bigger uh kind of uh freedoms we're seeing that now though where you see google creating these tracking uh tools where they say hey we're going to use the uh cell phone data and we're going to be able to tell you are you social distancing or not and we're going to give that data to the government and yeah we may anonymize it we may um you know kind of aggregate it supposedly but when you start to enter into

that world where now that data isn't just let's start let's stop terrorist attacks it's now let's prevent you and uh and me from going and meeting up with each other really slippery slope it seems yeah i mean not even a slippery slope that's too far right we're having private organizations that are enabling portions of our everyday lives and our like for me my phone is is how i make my living like whether it's um you know through photographs or through communication um you know or through social media and they have they have weaponized the phone where um like the distance of that i am from other people how many people are with me what we're talking about like what is next so first they're saying how many people are congregating at what distance and then

then are they saying okay well not only are we going to are we going to be intrusive about that let's also there here are some things that they're not allowed to do when they're together so they're not allowed to what worship um they're not allowed to negatively disparagingly talk about president trump or president biden or whoever it's going to be like who knows like once that we keep saying slippery slope so that metaphor is like after a couple of once momentum negatively starts happening and there's no way that you can stop the negative energy that continues down this slippery hill so if this is the hill and you're on top of it and then you make a bad decision you give up a little bit of your freedom you're on this side of the hill and then you make

another one now you've moved two times down but this rope is super slippery and now i'm sliding down and there's nothing i can do about it as i slowly go all the way down this hairy trollish arm and fall off my back um and i think that sounds seems like in this alarmist thing we're like no slippery slow that's what alarmist um that's what like preppers use as excuses to have a bunch of chickens and have a farm and have their own well and have their own solar and have a bunch of medical stuff. I'm talking about myself right now and I'm super happy. Well, the reason I wanted to have you come on and talk about this, right, is there's this weird balance between you're not the guy who's yelling and screaming, you know, fuck the government. Actually, you are

enlisted in the United States military. You are a trained Green Beret, Ranger qualified. You've spent you know what almost two decades of your life uh dedicated to protecting the american way of life american freedom etc and i think actually what people confuse is like those people who are in the military police fire right all of those that are uh sworn to protect the american way of life they actually feel the strongest about this right they're the ones who are saying wait a minute time out this is not what is supposed to be happening at home yeah people look at my resume and they're like oh that's the guy that's going to come kicking my doors to take a gun like bro you're insane right like i have watched my friends burn alive inside of vehicles that got

blown up by ivs fighting to protect these freedoms and you think i'm going to go and enforce um the taking of those away from you you're insane right like you're talking about the most passionate um freedom loving group of people on the planet it is your law enforcement it's your firefighters and it's your military right because they have seen firsthand the suffering and the sacrifice that goes into the protection and the preservation of those things and for the military especially we go to places where these freedoms don't exist so like every time i start having a conversation about um you know capitalism versus socialism just economically or like the practice of communism as a form of government versus a republic.

I was like, before we have these, have you ever lived or spent time in a place that practices the form of government that you are supporting? If you haven't, why don't you come with me for a few weeks? Because I have. And the whole entire time that we're there, the only reason I was able to survive

was because the military was flying in my food and water because there wasn't any there. If you wouldn't have gotten the water out of the well, you'd have dysentery because it has been poisoned by all of the gross people that are around there because there's no food or water to be had and everybody's fighting over the same freaking well. It is clearly, I and everybody that,

every single one of my brothers and sisters that has worn that flag on their shoulder, have confidence that we are the ones that love freedom and that have died and have seen our friends die protecting it and would happily die to protect it. And so while I work for Uncle Sam, and I am proud to be an American Green Beret, to be part of the Special Forces Regiment, I am first and foremost an American. Yeah. One of the things that really concerned me, this is probably the most egregious example I've seen. So there's this guy in Brooklyn, FBI goes in, and they've confiscated a bunch of medical supplies that he had, right?

And I'm not talking about like he had, you know, five masks. I mean, I'm talking, he had 130,000 masks, you know, 600,000 gloves. Like he had a warehouse full of medical supplies and there's a, it's a highly complex scenario. So before everyone freaks out, he was selling them for, you know, 700% increases in price, all this kind of stuff. I'm going to put all of the medical supplies, that whole part of the conversation to the side for a second. But in there, he got charged with assaulting a federal agent, because he coughed in the direction of the agent, supposedly, right, or allegedly. And he allegedly also said that he was positive with coronavirus. And the first thing that went off in my head is, is coughing going to be illegal in public, right?

Do you kind of get so far down that slippery slope where, again, in the age of coronavirus, where fear kind of, you know, reigns, if you will, all of a sudden, can you outlaw coughing, right? Can you actually get to the point where people say, hey, I don't want you to cough in public, and it's actually for the public good. If you cough, you've broken the law. And again, that's an egregious example, but that doesn't seem too far off because it's literally in an affidavit where a guy got arrested, and that's one of the charges against him, right? Yeah. Um, have you seen the videos of like the people intentionally going into supermarkets and coughing over the produce? Um, and by the way, not, not good.

I'm not condoning it. I don't think you're condoning it. Right. But adds to the complexity of this situation is when people are, again, being an asshole, right. And just doing things cause they're idiots. Yeah. It's asshole illegal though.

You know? um and you know the idea of i'm free and i can do things that i want as long as they don't negatively affect the person next to me if i go and i cough on a bunch of vegetables and you know fruit and that negatively affects the person next to me i my favorite video is the guy goes i think it was in it looked like it was like in india um the guy coughed over a bunch of produce and the shop owner went over there and skull stomped him i mean he just came like just clocked him in the side of the head the dude fell down unconscious and i i don't even know what happened after that i don't want to know but um like uh like that hey problem solved um i i have no problem straightening

out idiots in front of me and um you know and i will suffer the consequences of of what happens if if i have to like i totally believe somebody can burn the american flag like i have fought for your right to do that i feel as if that is a complete protected form of uh freedom of speech like you do that in front of me i you're like i might beat your your teeth i might do that um and i've realized that i would get arrested for that um and cool i'll i'll take that happily um you know and that's kind of like where things get complicated right where this is where this isn't this nuanced the subtleties of what is free what is protected um what i think we all need to do collectively is really rally around our freedom and we need to logically and rationally start

looking at those freedoms and figure out okay not for the greater good but for my kids good like if you don't have kids for your future children's good what kind of freedoms do i want them to have do i want them to wait in bread lines do i want them to be rationed a certain proportion of water do i want them like if they don't cough into their shirt like this that they could be arrested um do i want them to be able to hoard medical supplies um we do we already have laws that that prohibit somebody from price gouging so like we didn't need to create new laws to attack somebody for price gouging like those already exist um like there's a guy that had a huge storage of hand sanitizer and he was selling them for $100 a bottle. Well, Amazon let

the authorities know. The authorities shut down his Amazon site and then he went and donated all of those hand sanitizers to local hospitals and local schools. Awesome. We already had existing laws. We didn't need to create new ones to solve a pre-existing problem. And sickness is not a new problem. Pandemics are not a new problem. Viruses are not new problems, right? Like this one is not going to have like a 10th, maybe not even a hundredth of the mortality of something like the Spanish flu. Like it may not even have the same mortality of the swine flu. So take a breath and start realizing how much we're going to be giving up for the peace of mind of now. Yeah, one of the things that and I always try to be really clear, I don't think you or I are saying like the virus isn't real, or it's not bad, right? We both wish that the virus was eliminated and social distancing, all these things are actually like good things. And it shows that it works. And actually, people should stay at home and do all the things that they're being asked to do. That is being overlaid with the freedoms. But then people always go second step and they say, okay, what should we do?

And what I always point them back to is I think folks who have been in the military, police, fire, etc. One thing that they've seen over and over and over again is good leadership. And what I mean by that is there's two ways to be a leader. You can lead with a carrot or a stick, right? And we have a lot of leaders across governments, local, state, federal, etc., that are saying you can't do this or you must do this. Instead, if we had a focus on more inspirational leadership where, kind of to your point, if you do this together, our community will be in a better place and you inspire people to do the right things rather than saying we're going to put you in jail if you don't do this. I think it's a very, very different path that you go down, but it takes strong leaders who know how to do that in order to get to that place in the world. Yeah. Leadership is a tough thing right now because we're looking at politicians to be leaders. Politicians are the most selfish people on the planet. There are very few politicians out there now that are doing it for the good of others. You look at the Ocasio-Cortez's that were bartenders and now they're millionaires. You look at on both sides of the aisle. I said I'm a libertarian. I'm pretty

much right down the middle of them both. I'm socially pretty left. Economically, I'm pretty right. Freedoms wise, I'm pretty freaking down the middle. We're looking to politicians to be good leaders, but they've never led. And now we're in a time of struggle. And when you have to sit there and say, I'm in charge, I'm the boss, here's the consequence of what's going to happen if you don't listen to me, you've really realized that we have bad leaders. So as we're moving into 2020, towards the election in November, I really, really hope every single person looks at their both local, state, and federal representatives and how that person communicated and led their constituents. And if you see this model of poor leadership, of them threatening, of them

overstepping, of them liberty grabbing, of them taxing, those are things, those four right there are slippery slopes that are very difficult to come back so you know taxes and liberties are things that are always incrementally taken or added and then can never be taken or or minused um did you see the um did you see uh was the captain in the navy uh captain corsair do you see this yeah what were your thoughts on that and for those that don't know basically a a guy he's a captain on a ship he uh reached out to leadership and it's unclear whether he leaked that uh communication to the media um but basically said hey look i've got people on my ship who are getting infected with uh coronavirus and i need help you know it's kind of an over

generalization uh but he was ultimately relieved from duty um i don't know how much you can say but just any thoughts there um so i have two conflicting opinions about this first is me as a leader um so i'm a a new special forces team sergeant which means that i will have 12 special forces 12 green berets that work for me um that they're my family i would do absolutely anything for those 12 guys and i really um don't care a lot about people outside of the special forces regiments because these guys these guys are mine there's lots of guys like them but these 12 mine. And I would do anything for them to include probably breaking the chain of command to ensure that they're safe and protected. With that said, I absolutely believe that you should

follow your chain of command and that you should push through the chain of command and figure out solutions within the appropriate, like the military chain of command is tried and tested and proven true and we have seen it through how many countless of wars unfortunately and we know that it works because we have used it successfully for like a really long time to defeat people all the way back to the british um uh stopping communism stopping fascism and um you know stopping isis so like you can do it i know those sound conflicting um and they may not be mutually exclusive but maybe they are i don't know here's what somebody said to me that i thought was a great articulation i think it aligns exactly what you're saying they said he knew by breaking the

chain of command he would be relieved most likely and he still did it because he wanted to help those that uh that were on the ship and it was almost this like element of i know what i'm doing is wrong but i believe this is what i need to do to get help and therefore he almost then got what he already knew he was going to get by being relieved and i don't know how true that is but yeah i don't either and if that's the motivation you know like kudos the man's awesome there's not many promotions that can happen after the position that he's in so there's and and in retirement um they can't your retirement is whatever highest rank you had so he's at the highest rank so he's not losing a lot if he gets relieved um he also you know like if you look at general mccrystal

um who did a very similar thing um he went to the press i think he went to rolling stones and leaked a bunch of information um and uh you know his reputation was like that might have been he might have been had he continued without doing that regarded as one of the greatest military experts of this war on terror um going down in fame as like a gallant patent um but instead you know he's kind of defamed but now he's like worth tens of millions of dollars um and uh so like these these arguments of like what what was the motivation um is this guy trying to be a martyr so he can go on speaking tours later or was he truly doing it to be um a zealot and a protector for his men possibly i don't know yeah i want to end up real quick with uh there's

a recent i think it's a new york times article that basically talks about um a number of these private defense or security companies throughout the Northeast, which obviously you run a competitor. But these companies are reporting huge increases in interest, both from, can you provide me bodyguard services? Can you provide security for my building? Can you come out to my Hamptons home and put somebody out in a car outside and protect my family? And the thought process is a lot of these folks are super wealthy and they're worried about the looting. They're worried about the crime etc first question is are you seeing any of that kind of increase in interest and then two how do you think about it from your seat in terms of like is that something that is possible here

and is it something that's like um so i'll answer the the second question first no i don't think it's likely at all um well i think it's possible uh that's why like i have guns and i have ammo and i have a security system and i have like a fence that you can't get through and stand off And my property is inaccessible, and it's not listed. All the things that I've taken to ensure my family's protection, that's my responsibility, and I'm going to do that to my damnedest. I've also seen an uptick – I can't even express. I can't answer the phone or answer emails of the number of people that are asking for that. And the hypocrisy of the Bloomberg during the town hall where somebody asked him, okay, how can you be asking for populations to not have firearms when you are protected by people with firearms? And he has had the most hypocritical response where he says, essentially, I need them because I'm important. and that that is not that is not a unique response that is that is a very normal response

from everybody in positions of power where okay hey i'm gonna fight for the the environment and i'm going to you know be like a tree hugger as best i can but i am gonna fly on private jets all over the world um but it's because i'm trying to protect the environment right um so the Hypocrisy continues down the same vein of people saying, no, you shouldn't have a gun. And I love that a lot of people have gone out and bought guns for the first time in their life. And welcome to the gun-owning family and community, and I welcome you with open arms. And I hope that you take that responsibility seriously because it is – while it is a freedom, it is a huge responsibility. And that means that you have to be trained.

that means you have to be able to to store it properly to protect your family that you have to know how to use it and when you can use it and all the different laws that exist like so there's a ton that goes along congratulations that you bought a gun welcome to the family but now you have a long road of learning what that means um but a lot of those people that have just recently purchased guns were adamantly against the private citizen being able to own them and um watching school shootings happen and watching active shooters and balls and movie theaters, every single time one of those shootings happen, the government uses that opportunity to try and seize more freedom, specifically around firearms or ammunition. And you can go, I mean, very back

to the first one. I think the most popular or popularized one was Columbine. If you go back and look at every single one up until current day, every time that happens, there is an initial rush to enact legislation, to create a new law, to try and circumvent the Supreme Court to, okay, we'll limit in this way. So we're not taking the guns. We're just taking the ammo. We're not taking the guns. We're just adding a tax that's so insane, you can't even afford to Buy the guns because of tax. That's already approved, so we don't have to go through the Supreme Court. But ultimately, it comes all the way back to where we're at, COVID-19, where you're basing the subtle erosion of your liberties because of your fear.

You're looking at the expense of the future for convenience now, and that's a horrible, horrible way to look at things. Absolutely. it's a thing where uh unless you've seen it i don't think people uh understand how important what you're saying really is um where can people go find more about a sheepdog and kind of what you guys are doing on the on the training front um and just kind of get connected with you uh so tim kennedy mma is all my social media stuff and my company sheepdog response um we're on all the social medias uh the website is sheepdogresponse.com we have frozen all in-person live training for probably another six weeks um but we have virtual training so you can like this

evening i'm going to be practicing some very specific drills so by the time i get back to the range on tuesday i'll get this much better you know incremental improvement um so sheetdog response.com and sheetdog response for twitter instagram not tinder we're not on there so are you on tiktok are we gonna see any tim kennedy uh dance videos started tiktok i just i did my first tiktok um and it's tim kennedy mma i was making coffee i was really just exploring how to do it i have two teenage daughters and um you can see one of them is on because i'm facetiming them while i was doing a tiktok and i was like hey you're on tiktok and she was like i hate you i hope you if she says to mean things something tells me that uh being your daughter as a

teenager is probably amazing and awful all at the same time i hope so that sounds perfect awesome man listen i really appreciate you doing this i think people uh more people need to hear kind of your thoughts on uh on american freedom and civil liberties and hopefully uh we can prevent uh any more erosion but uh we're living in an interesting time so i appreciate the time Absolutely. Thank you. Take care. All right. Thanks, Tim. Hey, everyone. Pop here. If you like this episode of Off The Chain

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