The Pomp Podcast - 313: Adam Townsend on Rich People Money vs Poor People Money

Episode Date: June 12, 2020

Adam Townsend is a private investor who now manages his own capital through his family office. He previously was one of the largest producers on Wall Street and has spent the last two decades investing in some of the world's most valuable companies. In this conversation, we discuss Wall Street in the 1990s, why Adam started a family office, how society has exchanged the Constitution for Terms of Service, what his biggest investments are right now, why he refrained from investing in Amazon, and what he means by rich people money vs poor people money. ===============================  BlockFi allows you to keep your crypto, put it up as collateral, and receive a USD loan funded directly to your bank account. They do loans ranging from $2,000 to $10,000,000, and they're perfect for helping you reach your financial goals of all sizes. Visit BlockFi.com/Pomp to learn more about putting your crypto to work without having to sell it. https://www.blockfi.com/pomp  ===============================  Our second sponsor is choice, a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ===============================  Pomp writes a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Adam Townsend is a private investor who now manages his own capital through his family office. He previously was one of the largest producers on Wall Street and has spent the last two decades investing in some of the world's most valuable companies. In this conversation, we discuss Wall Street in the 1990s, why Adam started a family office, how society has exchanged the Constitution for terms of service, what his biggest investments are right now, why he refrained from investing in Amazon, and what he means by rich people money versus poor people money. I really enjoyed this

conversation, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into the episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. The first is BlockFi. I'm an investor and a user and a huge fan. BlockFi got three products. The first is when you deposit crypto and they give you a US dollar loan. The second allows you to buy and sell cryptocurrency on a crypto exchange. And the third is my favorite product, their interest bearing account. You can deposit crypto and earn up to 8.6% APY in the interest bearing account, unheard of rates. So go visit blockfi.com slash pomp, again, blockfi.com slash pomp, and you can learn everything you need, or you can click on the link in the description. Our second sponsor is Choice, a new self-directed IRA product that I'm

really excited about. If you're listening to this, you're likely part of the 7.1 million Bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not Bitcoin. I was in that situation too. But now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax advantage dollars to do it too. A self-directed IRA that allows you to hold your private keys and invest in Bitcoin. Absolute game changer. Head on over to retirewithchoice.com slash pomp, retirewithchoice.com slash pomp,

or go in the description and click on the link there. Lastly, don't forget that I write a daily letter to over 50,000 investors about business technology and finance. I break down complex topics into easy to understand language while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at Pompletter.com. Again, Pompletter.com.

All right, let's get into this episode with Adam. I hope you guys enjoy this one. but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, guys. Bang, bang. I've got Adam here with me. I'm super excited to have this conversation. He probably knows more about more things than most of you I've had on the podcast. So thanks so much for doing this. Oh, cool. And bang, bang to your back. That's awesome. um let's get into uh your background maybe give us an overview of kind of how we get to you today running a family office and building companies uh so people understand your perspective well and let me clarify i don't run a family office i run my own family office which there's

quite a difference between the two um i have all my own capacity i do these other people's capacity other family office capacity and i am a part of the syndicate because there is benefits to having our own kind of angel-less operation as well as back office um as well as collaborating on certain things which is great family offices um these days are a little bit different than they used to be because they've taken a lot of outside money so uh that kind of constrains them and uh more philosophically it'll kind of give a deviation to what one person wants to do with their money if now you have to kind of reach a consensus and making money is uh is not a

democracy it's a dictatorship so uh i'll give you a little bit of my own background um and uh i appreciate you saying that uh i'm i might have a more kind of robust system of view and background information than a lot of your guests and now i feel kind of challenged by that because i feel like that uh i feel like casper or now magnus where i just want to have like 30 chess games going on at once and then play them kind of all at the same time and then you know when i think that's awesome i want to do that that's like a real mental challenge i want to do that now i'll take 30 of you guys and we'll go from subject to subject um and i've listened to a lot of your podcast um so um let me go backwards i'll give you my own history

um and i know we were discussing a little bit of this uh in advance um so uh well that's interesting that might be our delivery um so um which is late by the way which is actually kind background um so i um came out of wall street and let me actually start even before that i knew from the time i was probably five um that i wanted to work uh in finance i knew that i wanted to be successful and then as the years go by actually i didn't know that i wanted to be in finance i knew i wanted i had a picture of myself and it just needed um to get um more crystallized so i had kind of like this crystal ball but it was kind of very blurry and kind of like i as a kid it was already kind of in its most disturbed um i'd run those snow crystals and it was as a kid it was in

its most kind of disturbed state where you can just kind of see a you know just enough of the christmas tree uh maybe you can see the green of it that was it and then as the years went on i think by the time i was only 12 or 13 i uh i had it pretty figured out i mean to the t i had it figured out um i knew i wanted to work in finance i was very intrigued by it not because of kind of my own intellectual pursuit because they really weren't finance but it was kind of a means to an and um i knew i had certain um that i've been blessed with um certain things that i needed to um kind of turn into a more durable currency right even as a kid so i spent you know it kept on getting clearer and clearer um and um i wasn't particularly i went to uh friend seminary i went

to ps41 um i went to cnn so i went to some great schools my family was very low in middle class those schools were very affordable and i had a whole stack of books as a kid so everywhere i went i think the largest stack was probably in the bathroom so um um i i when i was in school i already knew what i wanted to do but in school you can't really when you're in fifth grade you really pick and choose uh i knew i loved history but my history was just too brief what was occurring so i spent a lot of time in the library i couldn't care about math and the way it was being presented to me which was uh arithmetic you know is something a kid can just pick up on their own you know honestly as long as they have that kind of construct that uh um that desire if there's

a reason for them to add to it in two they'll uh they can figure it out really quickly for themselves uh the same is true with geometry uh but i didn't see any reason for calculus and i didn't see any reason for a lot of the places where i was spending my time i was very intrigued by language so i uh did manage to learn language um so um i um finished school as much as i could to do um now you know more than college just as everybody else does i hated college because i felt that i already knew what i wanted to do and this just wasn't what i wanted to do and i was interacting with kids that definitely didn't know what they wanted to do and it was a distraction because i've never bought time you know i've never you know it's just not my thing

um and i thought that they were interfering even though they were my friends so i thought that was buying my time to go to wall street and um then when i was about 19 years old um i uh i knew that i was ready i was working in a retail uh job at that time and working on a record store um actually i was working at the gap i went from job to job at that time uh because i wasn't particularly interested but i knew i needed to buy my time so how about 17 years old um i um i wound up But back then, Wall Street was much more approachable than it is now. Kind of the big people, the Jamie Dimons and everybody else were much more accessible. I mean, you could just give them a call out of the blue.

And that is what I did. I'm a very firm believer in cold calling because it kind of optimizes the path from A to Z. So that's what I did. And I cold called my way into Goldman Sachs. and i cold called my way into um i cold called my way into several firms uh many of which didn't have interest in me uh which was fine i wasn't particularly insulted by that and everybody was very kind telling me why they didn't have interest in me and a lot of the reason that they didn't have interest in me was uh they wanted somebody that

could hit the ground running and just get get revenue positive and i certainly couldn't do that um or they wanted somebody to fill a very niche role which was more than just a broker or an analyst or this or that but even within that they wanted a smaller server i wasn't interested in it so i wound up um meeting with um or i wound up really having a great relationship with two analysts from different clubs uh one of them is a golden sense uh and he was essentially the analyst that discovered microsoft bell lotus and um the other one um essentially discovered my phone and you know the semiconductor side of it i went to semiconductor side of it um i did very well um i did very well by accident you know he loved me and they loved

me and they embraced me and uh i did incredibly well uh i was just very lucky the right person at not the right time and i had the right gifts uh my mentor there quit and he left me uh at that time the largest position in micron on wall street um so i had to become smart very quickly and that required learning where the short squeeze is and participating in one um and i became part of the short busters club where we did and we squeezed other actual such as conceivable the ranger of shoulders um i um i then left that left that firm for a wanderlust and was offered a lot of money to go to a wire house um and i went there um i had the largest position in my phone dsi and a whole bunch of other things which put a lot of risk on

their plate so i started my own shop uh i did um i did an investment bank i did several um mostly within semiconductors and acquisitions. One of them was the acquisition of ZEOS, which became Micron Electronics, which became Micron and what's the other one? And that itself was just amazing.

And I started a research shop and two years later, I knew I was going to sell it. And two years later I sold it and at that time I thought I was I was just a kid and back then it was actually a lot of money and I was already one of the big

I didn't want to go back um I I know what pattern recognition is and I I try and um avoid it and that can be a very bad thing um so um I um I took two years off my wife and I traveled all over the place and uh when i came back silicon alley was just beginning which is in manhattan was just beginning and about.com and tripod and fred wilson at that time still a chief capital partner and there was milestone ventures and it was just a different venture capital world there was different companies they called it internet 1.0 which was i knew was ridiculous at the time um but nevertheless i saw um i invested in a lot of those companies um and many of them got acquired you know some of them were just interesting to observe such

as pseudo programs um which did and i watched broadcast.com initiated and become successful and as those positions were sold off I didn't want to do that again either I had done kind of the investment move within that and done kind of what I would think of as a real estate speculator I did by funding

a lot of those companies out of my own pocket and not even bothering to go into a VC and giving them a pay I just went on every cap table including some of the losers so after I had cashed those positions after pseudo programs have basically been in its death rows uh and josh has

gone you know off the wall i um i saw what one of the gapping needs within that industry was which is these companies back then you might be a little bit too young but we're growing from two employees or 10 employees to 400 and this would happen so quickly that um they didn't build up the uh internal capacity the human resources capacity which exposed them to a lot of risk so one of the things that was happening is these companies were being acquired or considering even being required taking vc dollars was they um they needed to they had holes in their financial books um which usually involved a little bit of other problems as well and they also had a lot of exposure to lawsuits everybody on their way out was still in perception of harassment and other

things and not to say that cases didn't have merit um but usually it's it's done to increase the severance package or when a company is looking to obtain venture capital particularly back then uh it was done as a mechanism of almost extortion that they're going to obstruct in the venture capital round with any claims uh so they wouldn't they would embellish something that was already probably a problem and the companies were making themselves very vulnerable to that because they were doing horrible things so that's it i i don't want to assign guilt to one party and diminishing to the other so uh i decided to invest in i made an investment in the company called at that time and uh it was a small investment it was 50 000 dollars so around that was around that was when

still at my own research shop and brokerage and so this is maybe 1995 uh it was a fifty thousand dollar investment that was introduced to me from a methodist minister of all things so i'm not methodist it was the texas environment at that time was really becoming very entrepreneurial um which was really a remarkable one i think we're seeing a resurgence of it now so uh admin staff did really well i think it's worth i haven't looked i don't pay attention to these things anymore but uh last time i saw a few years ago it was two billion and the stock is done well more than double then i still have a very large position at one time i own five percent of the company and when i owned um five percent of the company you need to have i went over to

become sales over there which was incredible really great uh but i didn't really need the money and i was just extraordinarily successful but i also own five percent of the company and when you're in that position you can either be an investor or you can be an employee you can't really be both uh and uh even though the founder was a good friend of mine in the mid room um it compromised our relationship to the point it still hasn't you can't be both um and the stock uh because i knew so much about short freezing in 2001 during the internet one like us the stock went from uh twenty dollars to two dollars um and this is a new york stock exchange listed company um that went public to morgan so that's uh really unheard of and there

was a lot of things that drove that and a lot of those things that drove up the ball um and uh in 2006 the stock was now trading at 60. uh so i didn't you know i think well i'm I'm going to knock on something, but I don't have wood available. I have my chair. So I'm not going to knock on ceramic. Either way, the spirit of appreciation is whatever I knock on. So, you know, I cashed out somewhat. It's hard to cash out of that large of a position.

And I became investors in the private equity fund. Adminstaff was the earliest PEO, professional pool organization, if you know what that is. they created that modern industry they did all the lobbying they literally just created um what's now kind of an accepted norm within the tech industry and everything else so they created it they were the premium and still are tier 888 plus player um a private equity firm asked me to put in a few million dollars put it in they said that we want to build our own you know they were clients of mine actually uh community staff which is now called expiry they uh they were clients of mine and i love them and they said uh we want to do the same thing so

uh we acquired a stake we bought out the position from uh decimer which was having big cash problems at the time itself a great venture capital not a it was just you know a perfect storm that hit them and sometimes when a venture capital firm is too successful it also means you have to give people's money back uh they just want to cash out and that can cause its own problems which is crazy but it is what it is um a lot of big investors and now myself included sometimes we want to take new investors so uh we bought our position the company called join it uh then we bought another position to publicly trade a company that was called jeopardy uh which was trading around two dollars a share that company had a 75 which is a po professional

player location that company had uh a uh 75 million dollars cash in the bank uh or that was due to it because of uh rebate from their work account with the business and the acquisition cost us 100 million dollars so it was you know it was good two companies were blended the private equity firm took a lot of ownership of the whole thing beyond just that um in this case it was general olympic partners um and one of the remarkable things about general olympic partners sequoia where i'm still uh making great and uh nea which is the same in scottsdale and everybody and them is that um general atlantic supply nea um in their industries are the most durable currency so they're the american dog uh they're the most durable currency of general atlantic's

going to commit 200 million dollars they're also going to commit two billions so that they committed to day long we made a lot of acquisitions trying that now is going to work for everybody i had a very large position in that very large and uh the company went public in 2012 and in 2012 another one of my early investments in public which is called which is called birthday um which is now kind of the norm also and it was founded by the guys who had done people solving before that people said this would be acquired by well these are industries i know really well so end of the day in 2012 I I had done really well in all my careers and I decided to make a lot of venture capital investments I think I did a pretty

well when it was still oil and petroleum private wealth oh now it's all retail but I don't really have an appetite for it that didn't work out but I was very intrigued in that form and so i decided to create a family office syndicate so i took my own family office which i had just built uh and decided to create a syndicate and the first deal we did was uh a company that i was already a very early investor and it was doing well both um that was an accounting company and it kind of was a technological substituent for or whatever, you know, QuickBooks, which also did incredibly well.

So we took down the $110 million deal that we bought through itself, and we took down three of that. I don't recall any more than 2012, but it worked so well that I decided to do others. I decided to do Slack, where the venture capitalists would have a good deal, but sometimes firms don't wanna take

venture capital money for their own reason, or they want to bring in other investors for their own reason, particularly back then. And there's a lot of reasons for it, but particularly back then, so I quote, quote it to them, did well. And I was very, so familiar with the industry that, you know, back then in 2012,

I was telling everybody to get out of Xenophage, and that it was essentially a criminal enterprise. Whenever you think of Andreessen, which is, I'm not a critic of his at all. definitely not man's a genius um created much of what we have now but suddenly didn't create it by them gave it a language and put things into the vernacular that are now just part of it uh so uh took down slack took down box put down a whole bunch of deals worked out incredible um and it just became it's i knew it was going to be super successful so we just kept on building

up a family office syndicate and initially i brought in a lot of overseas money um because american family offices at that time were um were not interested in that they wanted to do different types of deals they wanted to take down bonds and you know maybe invest a million dollars here and there but the industry didn't really exist at that time so i spent probably two years traveling all over um the middle east and here and they are including um meeting a lot of animals with family offices and a lot of family offices and i showed them where i had gone with myself and the material offices and how we did it and everybody loved it these guys have a lot of them a lot of them uh just staggering and they said okay you know we'll

commit 100 or 200 million dollars for this it will match everything that you want to do um within that niche because these guys are also doing you know billion dollar agricultural deals whether buying smelting plants that have contracts going forward 10 years ridiculous so um you know that worked out really well and that's instilled now such a big part of my life and um you know i think uh i've guided it um as kind of a futurist somewhere so uh after we cashed after i cashed out the summit of china birthday i wanted to figure out how what would happen next and i got very intrigued with the gig economy uh and wrote up a lot about the gig economy and just became probably the best guy on the street who understood it but because i wanted to replicate the

co-employment relationship with china didn't find a lot of giga economies i thought could sustain because all my companies have always been profitable wasn't particularly interested in some guy with a dream that went public and it's still a dream it's just not what i do i sleep at night like a baby and i'm not trying to rob anybody or have them lie or participate in some type of a collusion uh all my companies are profitable so made a couple of small investments personally i think i gave a bunch of people fifty thousand dollars just to speculate uh i love that i don't really like people um i like companies there's a big difference people companies don't i can you can see something uh my role of x is incredible uh so i didn't want to squander that on

somebody who might anyone misrepresent things or couldn't change with the wind i was very early involved in company goal kazan and remarkable thing about that company is they the management and the actual chairman of the other people i watched how they were able to move as things changed vaguely it was really incredible including uh transfer wise against i mean i've seen some people really move um i was in skype and i've just seen people move i mean so i've seen real entrepreneurs and I've seen those entrepreneurs who have succeeded becoming entrepreneurs between being they went from being conquerors to administrators incredibly so I did well with Skype also I guess I should

include that in the transcript so now I've got my family office and a lot of our investment thesis now is what goes forward I have you know I've had a large position in tesla uh since the very early days we've had a large position on facebook since the very early days and that started off just opportunistically when stock went down 18 my events at the building roadshow knew the guys alexander the great um forget about it just just remarkable very honest very sincere uh i still think about it to this day when i compare him to some of the other social media companies and to some of the other tech people the difference between him and uh when twitter came to my office to do the road show and to

soak up shares for the aftermarket um i had in that room uh the old golden sax bull stock who are who are friends and we've invested just kind of in the boss the other time so So, but they didn't, I didn't introduce him by that, you know, the old people guy, whatever. Nevertheless, I thought the Twitter guys were very brash. We said, you know, how are you going to do this? How are you going to do that? And we thought they had a solution because, that they didn't need to express to us because they were too smart and they were wrong and everything was, Mark Zuckerberg was very

smart too. So now my thesis is jumping to now. about three years ago i started investing in defense industry companies um there's a lot of reasons for it but a lot of my thesis is the world just going to go to war i don't like it but you don't have nuclear weapons just as a threat um you don't develop micro nuclears which are incredible but you don't have these little mini nukes uh just as reactive uh and if the world was going to go to war um i wound up having large positions bearish against china and started out as that because i said well who is going to be part of

this i've been here about 20 times and i know the culture there really well and i saw what's happening along south china sea so i said there's going to be a war i could tell you where it was going to be and who was going to be on it and what properties they were going to have and what and what I would and how it's working out. So I also saw an infiltrate in American-American culture. So I took large positions, bullish on pigs. And I don't eat, I don't eat them, I love them, but I have to deal with reality.

They're all people who eat such things. And I knew China was going to experience a shortage. I didn't expect it to be as severe as it was. And as it became more severe, I decreased my positions in countries around the world. I took physical inventories of pens and a whole bunch of other things in the wrong ways, along with actual, some of our family, walkers, significant people. We could really lay down the cash. Can I just add, Adam, one of the things that's really interesting to me is you come out of

a world that I'll describe as kind of a wall street heavy, right. In terms of very finance driven, very much, uh, kind of public markets, but you found a lot of success in investing in these private companies and more of a venture capital model. Today you have, um, a family office that's highly successful. You're able to have both public private investments, uh, in the public markets. You have, um, taken very large positions in Tesla, Boeing, Lockheed, great kind of like you're describing um what we i would put in the category of like innovation and also yeah that's what they are that's right so you've got kind of these two buckets of innovation you've got defense um but defense is innovation of course defense innovation is

what was the country's the armies that won won because of their innovation of course well and i guess what what is the surprising part right and i'm cheating because uh you and i have talked about this before and and you kind of described some of it is in that innovation bucket defense is kind of a a subset of it you also have things like tesla which obviously has uh has kind of taken the the lead on the electric vehicle side but you don't have exposure to Amazon. And I think you've got a very unique view of why you've chosen to not take a position in Amazon. So maybe talk through a little bit of, you know, the logic behind, because I think when people hear somebody who's been successful over and over and over again,

they wonder, you know, I've lost money also. Of course. So maybe talk a little bit about Amazon and kind of what the thesis there was to actually avoid investing. Well, let me go backwards a little bit then uh to give you some context on amazon and also to be a little bit more uh responsive to the innovation and defense industry and tesla as well um so you know part of my thesis was how expensive innovation is in the united states and i'm not talking about facebook coming out with an app or google doing some ai things i don't mean to knock any of the people that are doing that but that's low-hanging fruit that's still really you know Facebook training it to seek to read memes or so they can take out whatever or to inform robotic

systems actually simple stuff I don't mean to be an ass but it's in that it's low-hanging fruit of innovation in the United States of high-hanging fruit is extraordinarily expensive you need really big teams so quantum computing is also something you need teleportation communication is these are really high and you need 50 people and you're not going to have them working remotely you need 50 people you've got to have proximity to them um you know you've got to forget about looking over their shoulders that's not how you measure do their performance um they it's highly complex if you're not getting these people for 150 000

a year and half a percent of equity um a lot of it is also sticking out of the msa uh when they're like listen we don't have the internal bandwidth to be able to do this and we don't have an artwork chart that commits it uh and i became invested in a lot of those companies because you'll say listen we have a couple of cryptologists and we're interested in doing this but these the general that's currently the ceo of this venture within the nsa has no idea what he's doing he's kind of an ass and he likes it um and we can't devote any we can't allocate any more internal resources like recruiting or anything else and stuff so they would spin it out and i would give them usually two million and these companies don't go

from seed to b-round uh they basically go from c well i'd say they go from a where they just suck up a lot of smart money they don't want to take a venture capital money they've taken a lot of zuckerberg chan who came in there earlier earlier taking a lot of bluebird taking a lot of inkytel um but those are passive investors zuckerberg chan isn't going to touch anything um and if you tell us so you know you need to scale these companies so you can see how expensive innovation is because as those companies go from c to c overnight uh you now see the problems they're trying to solve it's ridiculous when you see the defense industry you see the f-35 and you see some of these other things or you know the apache 64s uh these are highly complex problems when you

have an understanding that the world is going to have a thousand drones lighting up the sky darkening the sky and one of them is going to have a payload that's um a biological weapon that some kid created in his general lab uh finding that one out of a thousand is not a couple of kids you know in their basement writing highly complex problems and then you've also got problems of data how to identify which is the friend or which is the pro because what happens if you've got a thousand drones one of them got this huge payload and it's following um and uh a couple of 747s what do you do then if you take out one you're going to take out the friend also and what if you don't know that pastor playing his friend before this and how do you was off

there's just so much like really highly complex uh so and that's also true with tesla i don't think of tesla as a normal company i never did uh one of their largest shareholders uh was a good friend uh and in fact in one of the old golden sacks all-stars and uh i persuaded him to baseball i think it's 60 dollars or something and uh maybe 2013. so he persuaded me to increase positions in texas uh and he kind of gave me a real roadmap of what it is elon also used to come to the sequoia uh annual lp meeting a lot so i had a chance to speak with him it's not an article uh just as amazon is not a book so it's just not uh if you have a if you have a concept of anything clean and what what happens uh you you've got to build up uh the back end

and so that's what i think they're they're building up kind of like i think i think about it more in the back end um that's doing not just the fulfillment of it but also all the reconciliations required to make this thing work and because those existing pieces weren't there they had to build them it's incredible leadership remarkable now with spacex you couldn't do that until recently the united states couldn't do what they're doing india could do a little bit of a little bit ridiculous um so so now going forward to amazon uh amazon was not really solving it's not really solving highly complex problems there's not really a lot of innovation i know there's a lot of entrepreneurial myth for them that's been adopted by a lot of wall street a lot

of our tech kids because Amazon is doing first-world propaganda they're very good at it and I literally mean first-world propaganda they're doing American style propaganda they've got a lot of embedded journalists of biz insider and such that are out there my cat just turned on the light so there that are their accomplishment is really seeing the opportunity to breathe within our own Congress within their own political establishment and also fulfilling kind of an old dark wish list so he saw where the world was going and he just built back for them so he saw that in actuality the world wasn't was no longer

fragmented right the fragmenting had occurred in my generation which was all the big conglomerates started spitting things off everything they bought in the 80s so to speak waste management companies and everything they now started spitting off and that's what mike milton was doing he's getting rid of he's going off and a bunch of that stuff so jeff was doing the exact is doing the exact opposite he's deep fragmented and he's doing it in the form of a monopsony uh but monopsony has always become monopoly and in doing what he's doing he's just creating absolute destruction but that's what uh our power structure now out of demand. It's no longer just an issue of shareholder return. It's malicious.

How do you balance the idea between a company like Amazon, which has been one of the best performing stocks? When you measure it from an innovative product and a revenue generation standpoint, it has been, quote unquote, productive. But to your point, by them being productive and successful, you're basically making the argument that they're causing destruction in the rest of the market, right? So kind of how do you balance those on like a net basis? And how do you just think of it from a mental framework standpoint? So around, I don't even know what year I decided to not buy the stock. But I knew it was going to increase many fold, but I didn't want to be complicit in what it was doing. While as

you know defense industry well those bombs have to drop somehow uh and those planes are going to shoot at something um there's also so much innovation that's going on that if we don't innovate then our opponents will drop their bombs on us and we need if we're going to have our space force we need to create the technology that can facilitate it but so amazon uh their innovation is more into propaganda and how they can be able to establish a football i mean a lot what made them great so to speak was the acquisition of aws and that those margins really started eroding uh when azor came into the marketplace and sucked up a lot of shares um so there's it's a very complex story with amazon because amazon is not a company it's a

country well to think about it as a company is unpersuasive um it is you know my thesis has always been that or since i was about 15 i suppose that that uh sovereignty is is changing and even then i could see evidence of it that we were going from a territorial sovereignty uh to a functional sovereignty and you could see that more with what amazon is doing and what facebook and google is doing so um right now people are protesting and they're lying right they're doing people are doing very harmful things but they're also doing fantastic but the destructive part of it all which is all is they're tearing down what they what is available to them they're tearing down the merchant on the street because they

cannot tear down Amazon Amazon does not have those physical locations they can went down, they got some data centers, which if they even decide to approach, they'll get shot down and you'll never hear about it on CNN. Guaranteed. Same with Facebook, it's annoying a lot of people, but they're going to, it's a first world country. I didn't want to participate in that, but I saw it happen. So I saw the world defragmenting and I saw the idea of sovereignty really changing over and now people are seeing it. And in a year or two it's not even going to be you'll be just as happy to exchange amazon credits uh as you are the american dollar uh for some people if you can pay your rent in in facebook

uh coin fcoin or amazon and your uh landlord accepts it uh what distinguishes the two um and so i guess as part of that um there's a lot of people who listen uh who are huge believers in bitcoin specifically uh and kind of the digitization of money and all these things how do you kind of think through um the corporates entering into the currency competition the sovereign nations digitizing their currencies and then kind of these uh separation of state and money something like a bitcoin okay so let me go back to my own background with bitcoin so i was involved in the company called kazan which was a very early uh peer-to-peer right so there was napster there was ron wyer there was and without getting too much in depth

into kazan uh i i saw hillary rosen go on to the uh riaa the recording artists and i saw them use metallica this front whatever but hillary rosen just destroyed that industry because uh government cannot catch up legislation cannot catch up with technology so they have to destroy it um and then they have to take ownership of it which is what's happening with facebook now you know they're they had to destroy now what they're rebuilding is you know this horrible information so when when kazaa got shut down uh i i still i still resent uh i became very anti-status and uh when bitcoin came out freaking loved it because we didn't have forex and we didn't have bitcoin we had again i think it was called like e-gold we had some equivalents of that

that had double printing problems and a whole bunch of stuff and then you know the idea of bitcoin comes out and uh i still love it i'm no longer an owner of any i think i may have still some litecoin but i met the z coin guys uh and to see guys they were introducing john hopkins a little bit of that i've all cashed out but um i i love it it's just not for me it's not my risk appetite but it is the future that we're going to live in so if you were to ask me how that it's a part of my thesis i would say well there's going to be uh two types of money and i think you introduced you've met w y who's um who's just off the charts brilliant with this and can really communicate about these things better than

i can i think we're on opposing sides in terms of what that what that is but we're both on the exact same side of that's what it's going to be she just looks for an opportunity this way and so it's going to be poor people's money and rich people essentially uh rich people's money is going to be gold as you discussed before buried in the backyard uh and uh it's going to be the american dollar uh and poor people's money is going to be these uh tertiary secondary tertiary type of coins assuming that there's going to be a fed coin uh which will be a dollar for dollar swap and you're not going to see you know it's um it's going to trade as the dollar would so you're going to see the uh the fed point very soon i'm sure and then whoever becomes president next will

probably be a part of that um uh if you want to whoever it doesn't matter so it's going to be poor people's money and rich people's money because for an average middle class person class oh whether they get paid in script essentially as long as they can go to the company store and use it purchasing oh now the handicap there is that you can't buy 10 property in Montana you can't buy your house in Hawaii well that person is perhaps take it yeah but when you're talking about a hundred million all a piece of property uh it's not going to be ever sticky for them you know they uh they want they want american dollars they want to bury it in the back yard and they want to capture our

premium so it's good i mean i cashed out i'm still in some funds that happen and what's interesting to me um as we've talked more and more is uh you're very knowledgeable when it comes to kind of the direction that a lot of this is playing out you understand the players in the market but you are one of the rare people who crosses over and you're still a very bullish person when it comes to natural commodities as well right so I'm bullish on America of course but but I think that there's a lot of people or at least there's a narrative that is emerging where there's a lot of people who are trying to draw a line in the sand between kind of the digital commodities if you will all of these new uh tokens and and um assets and then the legacy commodities right so

like gold versus bitcoin is a very easy one and you can kind of go through all of them uh but you are it's easy to kind of on a spreadsheet uh perhaps kind of have a column a and a column b and you know you can be very selective about what you're going to include within the close field but it's it's not one it's it's a kind of a reckless comparison but yeah okay yeah and so So maybe talk a little bit about what you've done in the natural commodity space and kind of what the thesis there is. Yeah. So I, you know, for full disclosure, I have physical inventory of gold.

I've tried other metals, but, you know, they're heavy and you have to even just holding them, you know, expensive in itself. And it's not an issue of having an appetite for risk. It's you've got to pay for that risk. So it kind of affects the yield. So, you know, in terms of gold, that just goes into kind of this idea of which people are going to employ people's money. Gold is something you can bury in your backyard, so I don't see it being a lot of transactions

with it. I don't see it displacing the dollar or anything else. I see our political and business elites just with their own four noxes, and particularly money that's being um illegally transferred overseas that's a it's a big problem so um i also have a physical so i in terms of america region just have been for 30 years uh and i never sold tesla when i had some of the pop shorts on on tv calling me up saying would you please sell it because it's going to crash and it was a 300 and crashed to 200 uh and uh you know i knew there was going to be a short speech because i'm that guy that hasn't

been done it before um so i you know i expect wars i expect these things to happen it's part of my investment in the sweden and i you know i speak mandarin i have a very deep familiarity with china and i said if i'm going to expect a war where is it going to happen uh it's not going happen on our in america we've got two oceans and we're just blessed geographically we don't have even with our divisions now we don't have what's required uh to engage in a war or something not to be attacked and you know it's very evident it was going to be china i mean just very evident what they were building out and then just kind of the vulnerabilities in the south china sea and their religions in the south china sea and because i was so interested in defense

what they were doing their own defense technology their own particularly encryption technology which i think americans learn about soon but what they were doing with things i was very interested in so then i asked my analyst to go three clicks deeper and uh we saw how we could kind of exploit that and use it as an opportunity one was to go bearish on the block um and we held those positions laws other offices family offices and hedge funds didn't but i don't have any investors i'm not an investor then i have to take their angry calls it didn't really matter to me i knew i was going to lose everything but i had you know if if i do i have three people to call and say hey you know you're not gonna maybe don't buy that car come on right so uh and i don't have exposure

a fiduciary type of thing other than to myself so they're very positioned on the wand as you know and i also um as an analyst where there was kind of vulnerability with the supply chains and one of the other things that kind of expressed themselves and lead to those actually and uh you know we were after the smithfield purchase which was this you know big company that was acquired by the I saw what their, what my house actually saw, what their shortages were occurring, why. We got two clicks deeper into their own corruption of their land and their water, which is probably forever more going to be irreparable, but how they needed to kind of import certain things.

they've got a 1.4 billion people to feed and there's a lot of things going on so overseas i acquired you know with other families as these things can be complex and um that held those positions and then you know swine flu happened and i think we had uh and we called up a lot of other families and pulled up a lot of patrons and said hey look china is depleting their reserve they're gonna have to go overseas to go to africa and go to other countries and bribe the people to you know bribe the presidents the prime ministers to empty their reserves and transport them to china so that's going to be painful on gold right you're not going to pay for that quickly so you know uh i believe in importing those those the metals uh i'm not a gold buyer

there. But you have to because wealth is now how the concept of wealth has changed forever. We've grown up in America, where there's, it's always been opportunity, right? Though, you know, the worst kid are with a little bit of luck, but just right including my my uh my launder who came down he came here from china and he was one of the people who came down from the mountains complex body of social innovation and uh you know it's two kids two girls that have both graduated right so that's going to become increasingly more difficult to have that type of economic and social so uh now preserving water which was before

or kind of, all right, I'll buy that cargo over there and give it to my kid has changed considerably because now it's not just about preserving wealth, but it requires kind of a real tactical, I'll go back to tactical. It requires a very, very disciplined approach to their own financial investments and what they're trying to do.

and so like part of this is what why aren't you talking to me so much is like you've just thought about many different disciplines very deeply uh you were telling me before i was recording that uh these are not just um fly by night thoughts that kind of come in and out of your head but you've been writing a lot of stuff down as well maybe talk to us just kind of from a high level of like why are you spending so much time right now and kind of the midst of all this chaos writing so much in kind of like a daily log or really kind of just putting these ideas and thoughts down on the paper yeah yeah so it's interesting uh because in 2012 and all my companies went public i was massively depressed i mean just clinically off the charts depressed and

vacations didn't resolve that and just things wouldn't resolve that and my friends couldn't resolve that it was just you know you've worked 20 hours a day it's been your entire life and your compensation a lot of it has been on the back end and now you know you've cashed everything and basically in one year I cashed ridiculous amounts so I was massively depressed so I read Seneca's Unshortness of Life and I read his letters to Assyrians and for me it was like my own father speaking to me so I learned the concept of time right which is something I never thought about before but the equity of time uh and how to observe time not just by your kids growing older and getting married

but in in terms of um in order for you to observe time uh requires its own discipline so i started keeping a daily life uh in fact i've got it right there and it has everything in it uh it's got one time i woke up which i'm going to sleep how long do i stay in bed for do i meditate how many times did i meditate um uh did i deceive myself did i deceive others because deception is a very important thing did i talk too much uh did i listen you know these are things that have to be there has to be an awareness of it i never realized until i wanted to find some type of a dedication so i had already had um an appreciation for lots right i kept them every day And when COVID happened, I saw, this is another one of my fears, but I saw that the world was changing so quickly and so violently that the mind could not comprehend it.

You think you can, you think you remember things from COVID. You don't. I've kept a detailed log that right now is about 10 hours a day. I've now enlisted other people to help me out. But it is extremely detailed. And are you interested in why I did this with COVID? absolutely okay well george soros has uh he gets a bad rap people should really read him some of this stuff uh and i've been lucky uh to know him uh and his uh his own philanthropy and the

open source institute so oligarchs are complex things right and uh so he has a theory of uh reflexivity which is brilliant and i learned about it in 2012 when i was trying to figure out my own investment hypothesis um and i needed it i needed you know a better vocabulary for it and a better way of thinking about it and uh you know the pdf of it is is adequate uh it's a little bit kind of tedious but the videos on youtube are incredible and what he talked about was positive and negative feedback and he actually used the instance of social media and news

so he was talking about it even in the current environment about how media can and will lie to you and the tools that it uses and why and the behavioral sciences and how it can be observed or not be observed and how to look at it

as a disembodied intellect so that's what I wanted to do because I knew that we were seeing the fastest roll-up of power in human history but I also saw media was so so he's got this theory that in behavioral sciences that the mind can only hold actively about six thoughts at a time and what the media does is they can continually will bombard you with information with well they're completely bombarding with thoughts so that these thoughts are all you have in

the front of your mind right that's all you've got so all that matters is that is that they overwhelm those thoughts it doesn't matter if yesterday's thought was a lie because it doesn't exist there anymore today's thoughts exist there does that make sense to you it does so i wanted to observe covid in the way that they were lying about it because i knew just i mean just rationally anybody human being well i saw some of your uh podcasts of three months ago uh some of your guests were persuaded by it i never was uh and i tried to share that uh with people on twitter actually because i never was and i just couldn't find any or a few people that were uh sympathetic to fight that battle but i so i kept the log because people weren't and i

wanted to observe the way the media was creating this because it's no longer this Noam Chomsky type of effect with manufacturing consent. That is primitive. You're talking about Mesolithic.

Here you're talking about where there's only five media corporations and there's only essentially three pipe providers like Google or Verizon or whatever it is uh however it gets through the pipes and there's only a couple of you know espn's and disney's and then in fact it's a new corporation so how those five corporations were just just

bullshitting everybody they wanted to lock everybody up uh and then why they wanted to lock everybody up and i was just watching everything and i'll give you an example of that a month ago everything that you were seeing on tv was images of the great recession and the great depression and they showed long lines and food bank let me tell you i uh do a lot with philanthropy and i do a lot with workforce development my wife is doing right now actually a lot i don't mean a little bit i don't mean to embellish you a lot you know my life is particular she doesn't watch tv there you go she looks she bought out some media i mean she's actually helping people so i knew that the job market was still good and that actually people still freaking loved america

I they weren't persuaded by this they knew that we wanted him so I uh I kept a lot of all of it I kept a lot of chloroquine I kept a lot of Tom Hanks uh do you know anything about Tom Hanks well I know that he was uh one of the first celebrities to uh to actually be confirmed to have coronavirus and uh he's so loved that uh I think people really were uh um kind of like oh shit this might be actually something to pay attention to if tom hanks has it okay so let me interrogate you a little bit because i'm fascinated by this was he confirmed to have covid i don't i don't recall i mean i don't recall yeah so he um him and uh i believe it's rita is uh is his wife right um they supposedly both were uh confirmed to have covid uh and they were i want to say in

australia but don't hold me to that they were somewhere and uh and um took a test and were confirmed and then basically you know two weeks later three weeks later whatever came out and said hey you know we survived this which again is um to your point i think uh when a celebrity or somebody who is well known uh it was like the nba players right oh my god nba players have tested positive from a mathematical standpoint there should be no difference in gravity of importance based on what you do in life how much money you have or anything like that when it comes from a qualitative standpoint the fact that you know a rich person or a famous person could get this i think drives more fear when it comes to something like a virus or things that are

just well not understood scientifically so i'm going to interrogate you a little bit just i just want to understand kind of your emotions attached to it not with a question though but just kind of how you how a uh how your brain kind of synthesizes what's no longer a head so i'm going to just ask you a couple questions all right was he confirmed to have it i mean did you will i i know he revealed that he had it and perhaps the test being positive is a confirmation but being a celebrity i don't think that was um persuasively um there was his doctor's report i mean wasn't disclosed i mean we don't see a staff on how do you think he got covid how do you think he got it i have no clue okay

okay is it because he has a lot of exposure to people and he does a lot of selfies because that was kind of the common thinking event it's definitely possible right if i remember correctly i think that there were stories saying that he was like filming a movie or preparing to film a movie and the whole logic was oh that's because he's running into people all day long and kind of engaging that way uh but but i don't think that they ever came out and said you know hey this is how he got it yeah so who do you think has more exposure would have more exposure to covid A retail worker, hospitality worker, or Tom Hanks? Who do you think has more exposure to people, more interaction with people?

Tom Hanks, the CEO of one of the most powerful companies in the world, called Tom Hanks, or a retail worker making $15 an hour behind a cashier at the store or hospitality? Who has more exposure? I'll tell you, throughout the entire thing, every time I went to the grocery store, the cashier at the grocery store, I was in amazement at the same people there every single day, day in, day out, because they had to interact with hundreds of people, if not more, on a daily basis throughout this entire thing for

weeks on end. But they didn't have it. Okay. But so let me ask you another question. And maybe statistically they did, although statistically it doesn't seem they could have it. And I think at a time that... What day, what month do you think... What month did Tom Hanks reveal he had tested positive for covid i don't remember but i think end of end of march uh sometime in there if i if i remember correctly and then you discussed the nba when did the nba uh reveal that one of their players had tested positive and then had to stop the season yeah it was early it was like mid to uh late march okay so it was the nba first and then thomas right i don't remember but yeah but you remember that both of them

that Tom Hanks had COVID and you remember that the NBA had a player with COVID you remember both of those but not the facts of it that's your fact that's what still is in your mind someplace and it's just been filed away it's not something you thought about

COVID started the awareness of COVID as a well pandemic doesn't really have a real definition but the awareness of the fullness of the threat of COVID started about when? When do you think? I think in the U.S., no one really took it seriously until March, but I think globally, you know, I think I remember I got on a flight in January.

It was like third week of January maybe, and I put a mask on. And I was actually just telling someone recently that the warning sign I should have paid attention to but didn't understand that it was a warning sign, is when I went to get a mask in New York City, they were out of all the N95 masks at the store. Okay, so now that was prophylactic of you and wise. And I know, you know, I saw your interview with Balaji and I know that he was a very early advocate

of the prophylactic measure. So let me just understand the sequence of events, right? January, you became aware of it. um and you said this is going to be a problem and some of your friends who are who are better observers of these things although not academically qualifying but enough on a periphery of being qualified to just make this type of information and um what information do you think they were getting just i mean were they getting it from videos do you think that those videos of people dropping dead in China? Do you think that had an influence on people's perception

of the death? I mean, you remember those videos too, right? Oh, I think that the, and this will be a problem going forward, but specifically was very obvious during the COVID stuff was, I remember multiple times, January, February, into March and April saying, look, the data that we are being told, you have to question for, let's say three or four different perspectives. And the questioning isn't, I think that it's overinflated or underinflated. It's actually, I don't know, right? Because you can actually make an argument that certain data points are overinflated, certain data points are underinflated. But what ends up happening is it became this, I don't know, just emotional thing where people

began to tell themselves stories that they wanted to hear and they found the data that supported that story right and that worked for people in both camps those for or against it so let me let me provide a little bit of um forensics that is absolutely correct so i'm going to split the emotions out of it i'm going to look at that disembodied okay so i'm going to look at how true actually corresponds to fact and like this and not these six thoughts that were in my head then and trying to invoke them now so the the videos of China were coming out in January and of people dropping dead on social and the the way they were quarantining people also started coming out the violence of

how they were doing which was also around the same time as the riots which I'm sure you remember and I'm because I'm so familiar with China country in terms of China particularly social although I don't intrude in but I'm very aware of them I know that there were a lot of riots on the mainland that you didn't see because people weren't getting paid because of the shortage on dollar there was a lot of riots as creditors can no longer no longer have capital to to continue giving it to debtors because they don't have their own dollar denominated so December January and I have this timeline of

everything I mean China the US the media the who I can't even tell you how much I've got everything chronicled so I'm gonna bore you with this they're kind of interesting I like so the the panic began de Blasio who's a friend I've been with for 20 years so I'm not gonna look at him as a person I'm gonna look at the politician in early March that everyone go see a movie right and he even recommended a movie the traitor which is clearly intended to be a snipe and at the same time his health commissioner so you know hang out with everybody have a good time and Pelosi was saying the same thing you

know they were saying I think they were going to be anti-racist or whatever or just and they called it essentially oh it's consequences the equivalent of the they didn't call the flu but they just kind of the inference was that you know she has happened right so just go out and enjoy so march 11 imperial report comes out right neil ferguson who has a very checkered hat and uh march 11th well it came out right before that but let me just begin with march 11th is angela merkel comes out with a speech it shocked the world literally look up the headlines it shocked the world look at the guard you look up anything and she said something and i don't have it in front of me but my recollection was like

200 million people in america were going to be affected but that was correct uh and 2.2 million americans would die unless certain measures were taken but it's going to be devastating and she called it a war on she said germany hasn't experienced something like this in four world states freaking insane whatever she says do the opposite okay truly and as an investor i can tell you whatever she says do the opposite and you'll make a fool so uh march 11 angela marco comes out with that speech was it march 11th and march 12th as i recall i'm just going to say march 11th i could be awful it was all over the newspapers everywhere it was even the the uh cover of the intercept which is allegedly this liberal type of thing just because sometimes they'll

criticize hillary but whatever or sometimes they'll defend trump or whatever but it's i can't submit subscription anyway but it was their cover millions of people were going to die uh all of our flight people locked this year so um at least when they're not working they like them off though consuming them but so on that same day on that same day tom hanks announced he had coronavirus i think the pot i think in australia they were like at that time and again i don't have this any funny but there was like four people with coronavirus and all this very him with read over two of them it's insane that same day the nba went through what they you know made their you know revelation so i believe it was within that 24 hour and again

this is all chronicled the thing is i have a bridge of time it's incredible but tom hanks is one of the most recognizable people in humanity i mean he's no tom cruise but tom hanks is you you know he is who he is right uh he's a you know an a-plus in cruises you know filming a movie in space amazing so and the nba is espn disney so it's a it's a well-recognized right around the world everybody knows that the nba everybody knows who shot hopefully kareem abu jabbar but i think they've lost so um that's a lot of media exposure all once right you've got kind of a barge your head right do you think that those six thoughts became a thousand thoughts and six remember in your head work so um with that said the next time we heard

of hanks was when uh in april i forget the date i think it was may 25th no it was april 24th or whatever it was i think i was just looking at yes you remember all of the headlines against chloroquine right and it was a very heavy concentration like two week period and it was everywhere would you agree with that absolutely absolutely going back to my theories of things it was filling up those six thoughts right rita wilson announces that she endured chloroquine and it was horrible and it was like the one of the worst experience she's ever had in life she's not even sure if it had any if it did any good some guy is most likely poisoned uh drinks fish tank something because trump said this would also stay in your head so the imagery

that's going on in your brain so i'm keeping this coded blog because all of this has to be remember his stories are not there remember any of this journalists journalists will never write of what we're experiencing now and if they do it's the tiniest sliver on it they're never going to write a system view and journalism which has been a love of my life and my mentors really figured um is never going to recover in the way that you grew up you grew up with a dad rather who at least had some uh appearance of impartiality and authority that's gone that's never coming back so i had to be that guy so i had already had this for my own daily while i'm shaking about half an hour a day and i still have the one day when you and i had coffee and i remember using

bad language and i was just about to go and you know and i never use bad language i never use it so uh but i was saying horrible words a lot so as soon as soon as i was doing it that night around 11 o'clock i was like it was a form of delusion why would you use bad language i mean it's just another way of manifesting self but why was i using such bad language how much self-awareness did i lose that i was using the language that i i've used very frequently but i recall using that so i remember writing that down i was like why did i do this how was my listening which i actually was pretty good um but you like other people so that's why i have my code as well and it feels to me like documenting it has value do you think

that you'll go back and read it six months from now a year from now like what's the what's the value in the future of doing it now yeah yeah well i'm doing it right now for me right um but i'm also including it a science fiction story and because so much information right just like those six thoughts that zora performed on his theory the behavioral scientist i have a lot of those six thoughts in my piece i mean just a timeline for china is about 40 slides for the the story about new ferguson you know each of them are very overwhelming right they're going to indicate those six thoughts and people already have their other competing six thoughts right so uh i include a lot of humor because i'm actually kind of and but at the same time i'm

writing a science fiction story um and it's done in a way that relaxes the mind so now you've got those six thoughts in your mind i'm you know mine are competing for what cnn put in your brain but i'm also trying to give you some relief so you've got all these negative feedback loops i'm trying to let your mind restore some type of equilibrium with this really interesting just absurd fascinating science fiction story that is awesome and it's not literature it's kind of a junky beach novel that's only maybe going to be 5 000 words it's amazing it's just this amazing narrative that adds to the thing it's amazing it's about superman by the way but he's never superman he's parkin whatever but but do you want to publish this as a book or is this something

that's just for you as a creative exercise it's a good question i'm not sure i don't know it's become such an obsession for me because we're just the you know it's the fastest law of power in history and you know there's a lot of politics going on and there's a lot of protests and there's a lot of reason for that that is involved in that there's a lot of carrying down statues and losing butterfly queen and just losing everything that made my life special I mean just every every thing made my life so special nancy lost half of a big chunk of a family at that time half the portion of it to the nazis and you're losing that history because christopher columbus brought shoes over

from spain uh because it was a requirement of conversion and he himself was like so to tear on those statues is is not is not it is not being done by the victims of the oppressor it's being done by the oppressor and once that history is gone America will never be able to restore itself because these little idiots in Seattle doing these things you know they know means of social there's some web blog that they read and whatever else that are just idiotic I mean I've read it's it's unrecognizable anything that's politically coherent so they have no intellectual ability nor the historical record needed to build any type of an

operable what i call a people operating system so what instead happens is we have these mega corporations that again have gone from kind of a territorial sovereignty to a functional one where we've exchanged the constitution for terms of service uh and we've seen that with black lives matter where everyone you look it's that whether the cause is virtuous or not um is a political partisan type of thing this i don't really get into these type of things but um it's a lot of white kids and these white kids work for facebook they're the families for facebook uh and so facebook has taken over google has taken work uh amazon has taken over whatever was left whatever artifacts was left of retail stores and of cash transactions and everything else is being taken

away and i wanted to document this so i might turn it into a movie i don't know uh i don't know i wonder i mean i might turn into a movie i might just find some guys and there's a lot of you know people who are qualified to do it or am i just trying to grab a novel i love it i'm going to self-fund it whatever it is i'm going to and i've known a lot of I'm going to sell I don't want a nickel from anybody ever I love it

before I wrap up I always ask the same two questions to everyone first one is what is the most important book you've ever read that's easy actually it's a choice now between I'm going to actually say send the letters to the city because

I didn't have those lessons I didn't have them and uh that was how i acquired all that wisdom and fatherly advice and it's also stuck with me because of the rhetoric you know it was such an amazing rhetorician just have you read it i have not no ah worth it yeah yeah and i would say one of the other authors within that vein is epictetus have you ever read epictetus i have not tell every young person you know to read seneca or without needing to adopt stoicism right but just read this and read epictetus because if if somebody as a youth had given me epictetus my life would have been my corporate life would have

been much different because the world was so violent back then it was about how to stay alive in very violent times so in a corporate environment although you're not going to be killed If you want to succeed, it requires that same type of diplomacy and awareness and how to communicate things and how to respect hierarchies and organizational charts. Just remarkable lessons, because back then, you know, a senator would kill you on a limb, or a senator would kill you on a limb, literally on a limb. If they wanted your property and you weren't in their favor, they would do. And they had their own militias. So it was difficult to stay alive. And it required effort to stay alive.

so i would say uh so those two okay i i love it what uh what do you think about aliens believer or non-believer uh what do you mean by aliens you tell me how you define it well i think of a of a life on another planet is that that's a fair definition you think that exists of course it has to be this i think we're going to encounter it much sooner than people think but i think it's that timeline look like i think it's going to present problems for humanity because they're going to be smarter than us when we encounter them they're going to be much smarter than us their reality is going to be much different than ours in a way that we can't comprehend so you know i read science fiction books and i like them about like

teleportation and all this type of stuff but that's the human experience which is kind of in its own way idiotic because even with space wars and humanity will be living in space by 2030 and 2060 hotels in space hundreds of thousands of people by 2060 it's still going to be the human experience it's still going to be your experiences um in space and although those experiences are going to change with each you know generation whatever occurs it's the mind can only comprehend so much we're very imperfect things and our ai is built upon humans right we're talking about something just incomprehensibly more advanced in terms of its intelligence than ours and there's no way of for a human mind to comprehend it

so hopefully our interactions will be um they'll be sweet hopefully they'll be kind to us i think they'll i think they'll meet us before we meet them but they're not going to come here to rip our to take our dilithium crystal i mean i already eat us i i tend to think that uh you're probably more right than uh than not what um you could ask me one question to uh to wrap up what uh what's the one question you have can i ask you your question sure what is your favorite book what book no excuse me let me take that book what book do you feel has had uh the most influence in you as you read it and affected you and uh has sustained you so uh i'm cheating because i thought a lot about this obviously when i asked

the question um there was three books that i read simultaneously or i'm sorry sequentially at the age of 20 years old, while I was deployed to Iraq. So I had a lot of time to kind of sit around, read, think, all that kind of stuff. And I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, Richest Man in Babylon, and Think and Grow Rich. And the reason why I think those three books kind of together at that time in life was, it changed the way I thought, right? It kind of was a reprogramming, if you will, just about here is how work and money and kind of all these things in life. It's very opposite, I think, to kind of the traditional education. And so if you read it too early, you're almost not mature enough to kind of take it seriously. If I would have read it too late in

life, I probably would have kind of been set in my ways. And so it was one of these kind of serendipitous things of those three books together at that point in life, like set me in probably a different direction than i would have gone um so i think that's probably it you know not even close compared to anything else that's very interesting now uh particularly thinking grow rich did this um give you um a perspective and a rationale not just a perspective but a complete kind of system of thought right that you feel you lack did your parents give that to you i mean had you had any slivers of that before? Did you have any sitcom view of that before?

I think that my parents definitely never sat me or my brothers down and were like, let us teach you something. The one thing that now being older, having the wherewithal to have the conversation with my parents

about, hey, why did you do certain things when we were growing up? My father was adamant about not giving us an allowance. I remember you know us as kids being like hey every kid i know has got an allowance like basically you're cheating us out of our god-given right to you know i have 20 bucks to go to the movies right and what he would say to us is if you want money i'm happy to give you money but come ask me and i will tell you what you need to do in order to earn the money and so for us it was just you know

dad being an asshole basically right and trying to give us a be a be difficult but really what was teaching us was look if you want 20 bucks to go to the movie theater go outside and rake the leaves right and kind of just instilling in us this uh almost subconscious uh manner of like if you do work you can earn money um and so i think that like after reading those books it was one of these things where like you started to connect some dots that maybe weren't as obvious uh beforehand um and then after the fact being able to have the conversation and him being like yeah like look i know you guys thought i was just being difficult but like i put a little bit of thought into it right i wasn't uh you know completely flying at the at the edge of my

seat there so i don't i don't think it was kind of formal education i think it was more of um you know trying to uh get ideas into uh for him five sons who pretty hard-headed uh you can't really sit them down in the classroom style you got to kind of do it in other ways that was lesson number one okay okay uh even though there was a follow-up to that i would like one all right what's number two on a so number two i wasn't actually anticipating asking i don't think i've asked the people before but i'm very intrigued and maybe it's because i'm also wondering about but um if if you were to shut your eyes now you have an awareness that i'm going to watch you and whoever's watching this is watching right so um i'm going to ask you two questions

When you shut your eyes, your mind is going to travel a little bit in time. You're going to remember, I have to do this today, I've got to do that. Relax a little bit so we can quickly get beyond that. Because I want to be as quick as we can. So relax your mind as quickly as you can. You're going to time travel a little bit. And you're going to think about chores that have to happen. What I'm very interested in is what your own identity is.

so i ask yourself and your eyes are shut um i am a person who and i'm still a man and then as that's your own identity right and then i'm also very interested in how you want others to perceive you so while your eyes are shut and everyone's watching you right you're kind of vulnerable uh how do you want adam and everybody else who is seeing you and is vulnerable how do you want us what is your identity so i think of myself you know i you know i am the type of person who right so let's use that as let me come let me just clarify that and then while you're while you're within that relax hopefully quick stay alive is uh i want people to think of me as a person who yep so uh i've probably thought about this more than most people under the guise of um

i think one of the greatest vulnerabilities and actual weaknesses of american society and just more generally globally, is most people answer that question with some adjective or some occupation, right? And I've said it publicly before, but I actually think one of the greatest advantages in life is to attach your identity to your own name. And what I mean by that is, let's take corporate America, right? So if you work in corporate America, most people will say, meet you, right? They will very quickly in the conversation explain where they work or what their role is, right? And that is something that gives them a point of pride. It's a point that gives them identity. It's a point that gives them something to kind of hang their hat on,

right? And it gives them importance in a conversation. If you then go to other types of occupations, it might be less likely that they attach identity to the workplace or the title in terms of like the actual, I'm a managing director or I'm a manager or whatever, but it is the job that they do. So you may get somebody who says, I'm a entrepreneur or I'm a banker or whatever the occupation is, not necessarily tied to the location. I tend to think that the people who I find most gratifying spending time with in life, and I think kind of have the best advantage is the people who say, my name is Anthony Pompliano. And that's it, right? That is the identity is it's, it's their name. And the reason why I think that is because you can strip away

everything else, but you can't take away them, right? Them as an individual, as their name, et cetera. And so it kind of is this weird thing where your whole life, your condition to care about and put importance on all of those adjectives, all those occupations and roles and all this kind of stuff. But if you're able to eventually get to the point where you can say, I'm actually just comfortable being me without any of that, there's this element of, it's kind of like an FU mental state, right? Of just being able to say, like, I actually don't care what you think about what job I do or anything else. It's just like, this is who I am, take it or leave it. One, I think that's very freeing for a lot of people. But also too, is the type of people who, at least who I personally

want to spend time with, there's a huge amount of respect that comes with that, right? They really kind of value other people that have the ability to think kind of independently, who are comfortable in their own skin, all of those types of attributes. And so like, to me, it's if we could get more people, at least trending in that direction, we actually would be a much more resilient kind of respectful society to some degree. Instead, what I think ends up happening is people, you know, you see it at a party, right? Some kind of social event, people show up and it's like, I've got this person who's a managing director at X company, who's now talking to associate at Y company. And immediately there's some hierarchical, you know, kind of understanding

among two humans that to me is just kind of, I don't know, it was just a false God that everyone's kind of listening to, to some degree. So I think that's like the most powerful position to be in is just to be able to, when you close your eyes and say, you know, I am whatever, it's just your name. That's it. And it's just, I am me. That's very interesting. And I won't inquire about that too much other than to now ask you, how would you like others to see? Because there has to be some type of attributes i mean i don't expect anybody to uh um to shorthand my identity as um um perhaps uh i don't expect them to as a particularly um um i don't know i just i don't know whatever yeah that looks bad you know i don't think i you know but how do you want

others to actually to what attributes and identity do you want others because certainly if you know I can't just think of you with that I'm going to give like my mind maybe that I assigned to you is kind of I remember saying as I was all coffee you're a very good interview you're very good listener so I would say one of the things I would say is he's a good list the other thing I would say is an absence of errors right i don't feel like uh within our conversation within the other podcast you've tried to convey kind of some intellectual authority uh that um competes with anybody else i've noticed that within here so i would say i would i would say that so i would say um

that um you know he's a good listener and that he has that kind of humbleness mine's much simpler ready it's just happy to me it's it's that simple if the day i die everyone goes man that dude really enjoyed life he was happy i win right you want others so now when you're thinking of your own identity now you're not just thinking of your own name but you're also giving that some attributes right like you're carrying that with you you've got some awareness that you're happy right so it's kind of a self-affirmation. I didn't have that. You're awesome. But, um, so you're thinking my name and then happy. Well, cause cause here's why, right. Is when you go through this exercise, um, I would, and I'm kind of thinking of this off the top of my head, but I would put people

in two buckets. Either, uh, they want people to think of, uh, descriptions of themselves that end up being very uh kind of self-grandizing right of like you know i am important i am smart i am you know whatever you want to put in that bucket uh the reason why i immediately gravitate to the word happy is because to me if you and i hang out and you walk away always saying that guy's happy you actually in some way get value out of that right because you're much more likely to struggle to be sad, depressed, angry, mad, all of these negative connotation states if you're hanging out with people who are happy. And so it's kind of one of these things where ultimately all I can control is myself. And if I'm personally happy, then that's all I care about. But by the way,

by being in that state, you hanging out with me, talking to me, whatever, it's more likely that you're going to you know be happy uh be content be these other things that are positive rather than go into the negative can i ask you a question two point b okay because i'm so interested yeah very remarkable i've watched a lot and uh having you know as we've lost charlie rose um there's been really nothing um to fill that void and now we're finally beginning to see some people who can have a long forearm that can be super smart i try really smart i used to see him every day for breakfast if you see in my restaurant super smart but never smarter than his gas so i think that's always really really interesting um so actually i'm not gonna say that so so

instead of asking 2.2 i just want to understand that when you're doing all these videos and had some remarkable i mean truly remarkable even the bears the financial bears i completely disagree with and the pandemic uh people like that when you disagree with uh really remarkable interviews and you're very humble and that has to be a hobby for you also it can't just be you know and you do your letter which i read all the time so um clearly you're happy but That has to be some part of your identity. So how is that fused into how you think of yourself? Because that's so much effort that it's got to be some part of.

And how do you want others to perceive it? Do you want me to think of you as a happy person, but also a remarkable worker who also has an enormous amount of discretionary effort and a happy person? Yeah, I think it all is intertwined, right? it's hard to segment each thing and it you know i've said it before that uh the interviews is probably the most selfish thing i do uh and the reason why i say that is i get to talk to super interesting people that i i am uh the arbiter of who gets to come on right i'm the final selection committee right of okay i want to talk to this person i don't want to talk to this

person yeah yeah so like that in itself is some filtering mechanism of like i'm willing to invest my time to talk to this person uh and then during that conversation i get to ask the questions that i want the answers to so it's the ultimate learning experience for me and i think that people are they sitting there like oh my god like i get to listen to this is so awesome thank you so much for doing this whatever and i was kind of like chuckle to myself right i'm like are you kidding me? Like, this is such a benefit to me because many of these people, I would doubt that they would talk to me if it wasn't going to be recorded, right? Or they wouldn't at least go into such depth and spend so much time. And so it's almost as if the audience is a tool in some

case for me to be able to learn. And so I always want to try those people and be like, no, no, you're mistaken here. Like the power dynamic is like, I should be thanking you for listening because you're the reason why i get to talk to these people okay so there's a question 1.3 okay and i apologize for interrupting you good so i'm really interested in your own identity and i don't i'm asking the question because it's also a challenge it's a human challenge right i mean it's something we all go through i mean and if we don't go through it's probably the tragedy of of having lived a life without that type of awareness um so i just want to understand your own identity you say your name which is remarkable and now within saying your

name and that positive affirmation is um happy right so you you're happy um you're you're a hard worker right this is all discretion yeah I mean it's discretionary is that fair to say that it's discretionary effort I think so Okay, so happy, hard worker, right? Discussionary efforts, hard worker himself. And intellectually inquisitive. Of course. I think that that's, I don't know.

I find people who aren't intellectually curious about things kind of boring, right? I mean, personally. And sure, there's people who are happy not being intellectually curious, but I think that's just my general nature. And so I found a way to kind of get to do that every day, which, you know, frankly, it's like a cheat code for life in some ways. And I suppose you would want, and it's not even a question now, but I would suppose, maybe it's one thing, but I would suppose, or two things, I would suppose that's also how you want other people to perceive you, right? as you know you're uh happy that you clearly are you know selling enemies you carry that as a hero um so then uh hard working right if anybody sees your body of work you're gonna say this is a guy that's got a lot of discretionary effort he could push a hot dog card and in 20 years he'd have

20 of them being pushed down it's just reality three um is this kind of um intellectual curiosity So because you do so much of this, do you feel that you want other people to say, this is who he is, this is his identity? I think that's part of the magic is like, because I'm comfortable whether people see the intellectual curiosity, the happiness, all that stuff or not. It's kind of one of these things where as I've gotten, I think, I've been able to shed any identity outside of just my name. You then realize that all of those other adjectives, look, I'm human, right? When people say nice things about you, you're like, oh, that's great that they think that about me. Even if you sometimes question it yourself. But at the end of the day, it just doesn't bother me either way, right? And I think that's also part of, look,

one of the positive parts of social media that uh doesn't get credit because everyone always looks through the negative perspective is all the uh the vitriol all the negative uh comments and just the that the deep dark nasty part of social media for people that have large followings and are very public and things like that actually they've developed incredibly thick skin right like you you'd be hard-pressed to say something that would you know really kind of hurt me i've read it all i've seen it all i've heard it all uh and most people if they've kind of gone through that gauntlet of public uh kind of openness and vulnerability on the social platforms i then it it kind of almost backs into this question of like at some point you're just like

i literally don't care right and i don't know if that's healthy or not good or bad but like when you're at that position it's just there's this element of like it's very free right and and uh i don't know it makes me happy 2.5 i really apologize go ahead i'm i'm intellectually inquisitive also and i know you are and part of my identity is that i drive people crazy uh because i'm so intellectually inquisitive and unfortunately i don't have that same intelligence that same social intelligence that you have um so mine can be not upsetting to people because you know it's obviously in humanity and sharing humanity but my phraseologies can sometimes and the way i express it can sometimes be a little bit um you know agitating but upset

yeah neither but you know it can come off wrong um so actually i won't ask i've asked you enough i mean come on you're you're here you might as well ask well i don't want to interrogate you too much but my my question was so it's 2.5 which is probably 2.9 is how do you observe you know a person can't carry self-awareness a person is going to deviate from you know what they would like to be right i call it but i'm sure you've got your own type of language for it how do you observe that in real time and how do you correct it how do you remedy it um so both of being happy because it's so easy violent my daughters but and being happy because that takes effort right and and how you view yourself and then in making sure that when you're

that you're expressing that happiness so that it's a part of you um so how do you uh observing yourself how do you carry that awareness that you've now shared with me so you can also correct yeah but it's not there so i think that this is um probably the only way i know because this is my personal experience uh and the people that i've spent a lot of time with have all gotten to the same point through a similar path which is exposure to the extremes right and what i mean by that is so take my life for example uh one of the best probably probably the number one best experience I ever had in my life was going to war. Because what it did is when I came back, it was very cut and dry on an extreme level of, is this thing going to potentially lead to death

or is it not? And that is such an extreme kind of measurement framework, right? Because most people, you know, they worry more about, is this something that makes me upset or not? Is this something that, you know, makes me happy or not? Is this something that's going to bother me a day from now or just right now. Those are the measurement tools they use. When you then extend your measurement tool out to the absolute extreme of the spectrum, you say, am I going to die from this or not? All of a sudden, there's a big, big gap between the answers yes and everything else. And so therefore, you kind of get re-centered very quickly on, it's not going to kill me. I don't need to worry about it. And your life almost becomes simpler and easier because you realize

that that extreme worry, or that line almost, that's where what I think a normal person who hasn't been exposed to those extreme situations, like they worry about that stuff way earlier in the life cycle of, or the spectrum of kind of where things fall. For me, I mean, I've literally been with friends and something happens. And they could, you know, literally look like they're about to jump off a cliff, right? I mean, they're just worked up to the absolute extreme. And I'm sitting I couldn't care less, right? Because I just, hey, let's just calm down and move on, right? You're not even going to remember this in 24 hours, let alone be worried about it.

I don't think you can have that self-awareness by reading a book. I don't think you can do it by sitting and thinking about it. I literally think you've got to be put in situations. And so we didn't talk about it, but obviously I've done a lot of kind of extreme sports and athleticism type events. And same thing there. Or like, you can read all the books you want about you want to go run a marathon or 100 mile race or whatever.

At some point, you just got to go do the extreme shit in order to be physically prepared. But I think mentally is the same thing, right? You got to be put in the extreme situations so that you can almost condition your mind to, okay, well, I know I can handle this thing that's so far out there. Everything else is, you know, it's a cakewalk. So I think that's probably the number one thing that helped me personally. I just don't know how, and people have asked me before. I don't know how to recreate that, right? How do you take an average person who's not in the

military, who's never going to go face war and recreate the mental conditions that almost like harden them? I think you see some of these guys like the David Goggins of the world and these Navy SEALs and stuff who are saying, hey, go do one hard thing every day. And that type of perspective, yeah, it chips away at it and it kind of puts you in the right direction. something different about a you know a bomb going off right then uh hey i went and i did 100 burpees today like it's just a little bit um i think of a watered-down version but at least it's a better step in the right direction than uh something else how frequently i got 2.8 go ahead go ahead frequently do you feel you're able to practice that as part of your daily life or weekly life

you know i i have my own things and i um i really appreciated yours very much um you know i i have things that i have found are helpful for you know kind of um restoring myself a little bit and restoring myself um and i try and do it as frequently as i can where my notes are that how do you um practice this daily so in some weird world i don't think that i practice it in the sense of uh i'm very bad about um i don't meditate i don't sit and kind of do like a daily log like you do like like there's no kind of one activity that i can point to and say like that is part of this uh and the only reason why i'm even aware of this is over time enough people have pointed it out to me where they've been in the same situation as i have and they say

why did you not freak out or why did you not worry and i did um and so again it's it's really weird in that um i think there's two paths to get to the same finish line One is you can have the persistent daily or weekly type check-ins that kind of keep you very much calibrated down that path, or you can have one incredibly or a small number of incredibly extreme experiences. And what ends up happening is the person who gets calibrated, let's say every day, right, whether it's meditating, writing or whatever, there's very little kind of waning from that center line, if you will, right? The variable is very small because every day they get the recalibration. The other person actually has a lot more variation in kind of their, we'll call it mental fortitude or, you know, whatever it is. But the thing is that they already had such an extreme experience that the error for margin is so wide that even with all that variation that they have, it all falls within the error of margin and therefore kind of that they're able to keep going in the right direction. And so to me, the ultimate thing would be somebody who early in their life can have their really extreme experiences and also incorporate the daily or more frequent kind of calibrations.

And so it's like, from my standpoint, I see people like yourself who can sit and have those daily calibrations like, man, I'm envious of being able to do that, because I just don't do it. Right now I have the benefit of falling back on these extreme experiences. And so I think the kind of holy grail and all this is if you can combine those two things, you know, you just can't get shaken out of kind of this mental solitude, if you will, or kind of state of happiness. 2.9. all right let's go when was the last time you did an extreme sport activity i don't know like it depends on how you define extreme obviously right you define it i mean i i don't i'm not asking if you're conor mcgregor or yeah i i would say the um probably the last thing uh i did um i ran the original marathon uh with uh with my girlfriend uh at the time now my fiance. That was question number three. Who is that girl? Yeah. So she knows me well enough to know that the odds of me ever running a marathon were close to zero. Unless if I went

and ran the original marathon, every time somebody, my brothers or a friend said, oh, I ran a marathon, I would then be able to say back to them, yeah, but you didn't run the original. just that alone would get me to go do the original and so uh i don't know i flew on a red eye flight from seattle washington to greece and then ran it you know a couple hours after landing and it was one of these things where like i don't care how athletic you are just it sucks you're running 26 you know plus miles and then when you get done you're like man that was awesome right like i actually felt kind of relieved and and the endorphins and all that stuff but you're like i'm good i don't need to go do one of these tomorrow right um and so i think stuff like that

maybe that's kind of a calibration but those are super infrequent at least for me so question three all right who what who is that um woman that joins you on those shorter uh i think they're daily yeah uh is that your is that your fiance yeah yeah she she um she is uh somebody who if i had to kind of put it into a framework um she had her own like extreme experiences very different but but i think there's correlations uh in terms of um every immigrant literally gets uprooted from their home country they move to the united states they gotta learn a new language they gotta you know go through all bulgaria ah that's awesome my daughter-in-law is from moldova okay yeah yeah so so like you just get this this new experience in life right and uh it doesn't

have to be that you moved from another country you could also kind of move around a lot as a kid or whatever but like those types of extreme experiences put you in a position i think where you just have uh a kind of built-in um the best way i've heard somebody described it's like mental toughness is a muscle if you don't exercise the muscle it it like succumbs to hypertrophy right and that's essentially what ends up happening so i don't know okay so 3.1 all right um and this is the old jewish guy right is are are you guys going to have children and if so when and if when how many? All great questions. I have no clue. I think that we would like to have children at some point in the future, but no immediate plans. Does she agree with that? Yes.

I think it's a thing where it's like, that's one of the things, if you're going to get married, you probably should have that conversation before you get married rather than wait till later, right how long have you known her for uh almost four years uh and when did you guys get engaged last year and did you know immediately upon meeting her well first did you come off of a long relationship before or what was your experience in kind of the market before i knew i knew the day i met her literally uh said it to her i think uh within the first 24 hours was she in agreement that took a little bit more convincing than uh than me that's awesome well thank you for allowing me to uh do my uh inquisitive thing upon you

of course i appreciate you taking the time to do this where uh where can people find you on the internet where can we send i linger everywhere i'm certainly on twitter and i'm i try and break free but which i did like a week i was really good but then i felt that i was losing so much information flow um from um kobe because the only quality information that's still kind of circulating and available is happening with twitter free stuff has become garbage i think sergeant rich will observe and recently observed that twitter uh is the most freest of the social media platforms and if he says it you know take it to the bank and i have you know there is a lot of good information on twitter so i went back both to persuade people to buy bowling right because i

wanted the market was down and i really wanted people to you know benefit right it's a once in a lifetime opportunity and you know boeing was at 100 or 20 or 30 you know dming people like if you have kids you know um and facebook if you're in lockheed um but it's such good quality information i mean there's so many doctors on and so many professions and so many people sharing what something that they found in like this off type of place and a lot of them are um specialists that are able to give it not just a tweet and a link but some type of perspective and that's really helpful to me in my law i love it yeah yeah so that's it thank you so much for your time and for uh allowing me to uh you know i i could talk to you all day long we

will uh we will definitely link to your twitter i highly suggest people go follow you on twitter too it doesn't matter i can piss a lot of people off there all right adam thank you so much thank you so much for your time