The Pomp Podcast - #483 Matteo Franceschetti on Improving Your Sleep

Episode Date: February 2, 2021

Matteo Franceschetti is the cofounder of Eight Sleep, the world's leading sleep enhancement company. In this conversation, we discuss sleep fitness, how to improve your sleep, the importance of getting the full eight hours, and the product suite of sleep enhancement devices that Eight offers.  ======================= OKCoin.com is the leading crypto exchange for both beginners and experienced users. You can fund your account in under 2 minutes, and get access to the most advanced trading engine, all while paying the lowest trading fees in the industry (0.1%). Visit www.okcoin.com/pomp and open your account today.  ======================= Own crypto in multiple exchanges and wallets? Sync them to CoinStats so you track and manage them from one place. Track 8000+ coins and 300+ exchanges all from the Coinstats platform. Try it for free or go to coinstats.app/pomp and get 40% off your premium subscription. ======================= Pomp writes a daily letter to over 120,000 investors about business, technology, and finance. He breaks down complex topics into easy to understand language, while sharing opinions on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at https://www.pompletter.com =======================

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Let's kick this thing off. Matteo Franceschetti is the co-founder of EAT, the world's leading sleep enhancement company. In this conversation, we discuss sleep fitness, how to improve your sleep, the importance of getting the full eight hours, and the product suite of sleep enhancement devices that 8 offers. I really enjoyed this conversation with Mateo, and I think you will as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is OKCoin. OKCoin.com is the leading crypto exchange for both beginners and experienced

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You know that's got a safe, sweet spot in my heart. So go to OKCoin.com slash POMP and open your account today. A leading regulated US-based exchange. OKCoin.com slash POMP. Next up is CoinStats. If you own crypto in a lot of places, like me, you know how difficult it can be to keep track of it all. That's why CoinStats is one of my favorite apps. Whether you keep your crypto on hardware wallets, mobile wallets, exchanges, liquidity pools, or somewhere else, CoinStats lets you track it all in one place on your iPhone, Android, Apple Watch, or computer.

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topics into easy to understand language while sharing my personal opinion on various aspects of each industry. You can subscribe at pompletter.com. Again, pompletter.com. All right, let's get in this episode with Matteo. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Anthony Pompliano, is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

all right guys bang bang i've got a special treat for you i've got mateo here thank you so much for doing this sir oh thanks for having me i'm happy and excited all right let's go through your background before you started eight sleep you had like two or three other lives uh you did not grow up in the united states and then you've built a number of other companies kind of walk us just through your background yeah so when i was a teenager i was an athlete i was playing tennis tournaments that is how i was spending my life and then graduated in law joined two large law firms and then i became an entrepreneur started two companies both of them they were in solar so in renewable energy climate change and then i got into health

and performance again with Eight Sleep. All right. And where were you doing the other companies in Italy? One in Europe, one in the U.S. Got it. And so when you start Eight Sleep, the general idea is sleep fitness. I want to start there. Just what is sleep fitness?

Yeah, so we are really trying to reinvent the concept of sleep. Sleep is not something passive that you have to do and is a waste of your time. sleep is like going to the gym it's something you need to do to be healthy to be fit so go to bed take your time recover let your body and your mind recover so then in the morning you will be fit and you will perform at your best there is a tagline that we use for eight sleep that is we fuel human potential to better sleep and so when you think through that i think most people say okay i have to sleep for eight hours i wish i didn't have to sleep for eight hours uh i'm not doing anything productive talk through kind of how you you know and uh alex and and your third co-founder when

you went to go start hc but what was the general idea of what you could do to actually improve this for people yeah so there are two things we really want to do we want to compress the sleep and we want to save your life compressed sleep means what if you could sleep only six hours and get more rest than when you were sleeping eight hours and then i can tell you how we can do that but so we want to give you two hours back of your life every day second because it's still six hours which is a lot of time how can we make the time productive we will scan your body in order to identify early signs of illness like even cancer so going to bed will be more valuable than going to your doctor every night it will be like going to your doctor so when you think let's start with

kind of compressing time first right um everyone is told since they're a little kid get eight hours get eight hours um and the thought process is you need eight hours of sleep because that is what allows you to actually recover um and kind of let the body do what it needs to do uh how do you think you can compress that from eight hours to six hours yet have people just as rested or more rested than they are today. The reality is when they tell you, oh, you need eight hours, it's sort of bullshit. Sorry for the word. The point is we don't use technology to enhance our sleep, right? And so we go to bed and we expect to wake up refreshed. And more or less, rule of time, you need eight hours. But the reality is this. So you will get around 20% REM if you're

lucky. It could range between 17 and 25, call it 20. You will get 20 of deep sleep, again, 17 to 25, but let's call it 20 plus 20. 60% of your time or 50% of your time is light sleep. Light sleep is an inefficiency of your body. You don't really need it. What you really need is REM for your mind and deep sleep for your body to recover so our goal is to compress the amount of light sleep and if we cut that in a half that is how we gain two hours okay so let's talk a little bit about there's REM there's deep sleep and there's light sleep when you go to sleep what happens to the body yeah so the first part of the night is around is about deep sleep deep sleep is usually what you need to really recover at the physical level your body then once your body has recovered the second

part of the night will have a prevalence of REM REM instead is for your mind it's the moment where all the information so that you have received during the previous day that's you know reorganized and saved in your brain REM is also when you dream and so the body gives first most of the tension too deep because the physical body needs to recover and then only once that is done it gets more into into REM but the reality is you go through cycles are 90 minute cycles of light sleep deep and REM but the percentages change based on what I just told you and so in those cycles you're literally going from light to deep to REM is it good or bad to have more or less cycles right like is it something where if i go through three cycles then that's okay but if i got

five cycles it's better or it's just one cycle okay at the end of the day what you need is a certain amount of deep and random and usually the cycles tend to be quite standard so around the 90 minutes unless you have some special dysfunction um and so the the key at the end of the day is to get this 20 plus deep sleep out of the eight hours so you can translate that in minutes and the same for REM so for example in my case if I get anything below 18 percent deep REM I start struggling during the day I'm not in my peak performance anything above 20 percent I'm like a lion and and I can't get anything done that day so that is what really matters and the amount of light sleep is still just in the efficiency of your body. Okay. And so when you think through

this kind of company mission of we want to compress the amount of time that you sleep, you mentioned compressing the amount of light sleep. So not really touching deep sleep or REM, but cutting from maybe four hours to two hours, right? In terms of this light sleep, is it possible to extend or kind of elongate the deep sleep in the REM as well so you almost get uh some of it is uh compressed on the light sleep side but also elongating the time for deep and REM yes and no meaning the key for us is for you to achieve this let's call it 20 percent just faster once you have the 20 you feel great you don't really need more than that and so the key is how do we get you there faster? And so we will help you fall asleep faster. We will help you get deep

sleep sooner rather than later. And we will try to extend that percentage across these 90-minute cycles. Got it. And you are literally like the foremost expert I know on sleep. I, as many people now know, throughout 2020, spent a bunch of time trying to figure out how to get better sleep. I am a full-on convert. If this was a religion, like I would be all in. I would go to church every day and tell people like, yes, sleeping more absolutely has this positive impact on your body and your mind. What are some of the tips and tricks that you think through in terms of helping people get better sleep, but not products that you provide? So is there things that they can do with their lifestyle before bed or maybe even during sleep

that they can actually get better sleep or get more rest? Yeah. So outside our products, right, what everyone can do. So first, if you talk to any sleep doctor, the first thing they would tell you is sleep consistency. So try to go to bed at the same time. More than anything, wake up at the same time every day, even on Saturday and Sunday.

Because if you just sleep in, you're just jet lagging your body. And then on Monday, you will struggle again to wake up. Well, instead, what you want to do is you want to train your body to wake up every single day at that time. It doesn't matter what the time is. It just needs to be always the same. And then if you can, try to go to bed at the same time. But on that, you can be more flexible. Then second thing is what I call thermal shocks.

So one thing I do and I love is you could do a shower and you keep switching between hot and cold 10 times, 30 seconds hot, 30 seconds cold. This thermal shock will really help you relax. At least, obviously, it's very personal, but with me, it works really well. Another option that you have, if you have access to that, is a sauna and an ice bath. But even just a shower works great. Orange lights. So I have Philips Hue at my house. You can set what are called routines.

And so starting at 7.30, my lights start dimming down. And first, they switch to orange. and then they keep dimming down and by 9 30 there is no more light in in my house um and so orange lights helps you develop a melatonin and the fact that lights keep dimming down will help you understand that no time for bad bad time is coming um you can try some supplements uh you can use melatonin i use it from time to time um some people use cbd um or you could also try magnesium Magnesium will not have a direct impact on your sleep, but it will help you relax your muscles. And then personally, I do some mobility exercises before going to bed for the hips, for the body.

Just kind of relax and open up your body before you spend eight hours on the bed. Yeah. And so each one of those things, I think, could have a positive impact alone. But when you put them together, obviously, it can be quite advantageous. The one thing I didn't hear you mention, but I know we've talked about before, is just like actually tiring yourself out during the day to go to sleep. Talk a little bit about if you do that, like what the advantage for that is. Yeah, a couple of things. Yeah, the best way is, yeah, you want to work out or you really want to make sure you're tired. but one thing I notice on my body is if for example I work out later in the afternoon or in

the early evening then you reactivate your body and then my sleep is not that good so if you can try to work out in the first part of the day or by lunchtime but don't do it at 6 p.m 7 p.m or 8 p.m because otherwise that will reactivate your heart rate so it will take time for your heart rate to really stabilize and relax again, you will start producing more heat, which will make more difficult for your body to fall asleep. The other two big things that have an impact on your sleep are caffeine and alcohol. Caffeine, the rule of thumb is stop drinking it eight hours before going to bed. Then our data shows that everyone is different. So you might suffer caffeine more than i do or vice versa so test it and the last one is alcohol i stopped drinking in april 2019

you and i we spoke about that alcohol has an impact on deep sleep on ram on your body temperature hrv and also your heart rate at rest explain more about the alcohol because i don't think people really understand this right there's a lot of people who say oh when i get drunk then i pass out at night fall asleep it's amazing uh but what's kind of happening from a physiological standpoint when you put alcohol in your body before you try to sleep yeah so from a physiological standpoint you have this sense where oh it's gonna relax my mind my mind stops from racing and then i can't fall asleep but the reality is the quality of sleep that you will get is low quality and so in the morning when you wake up your hrv which is a heart rate variability and it's a good metric to

determine how rested you are um would just be lower than expected because that had an impact on on your heart rate as well the other big thing is uh in particular as you get older you will see that alcohol has an impact on your body temperature and so if i drink um i will start feeling hot in the middle in the middle of the night and so that will be an additional thing that will impact my sleep quality so overall you don't feel it you just think that it's relaxing you but at the end of the day the type of sleep you get is poor so you stopped drinking in april 2019 i haven't drank all of january we're recording this towards the end of january and i feel amazing uh definitely has improved my sleep so i can kind of speak to that but you still drink coffee and so

how do you think about uh caffeine in general for you do you drink in the morning and then you stop at a certain time do you limit yourself to how much you drink yeah so i'm italian and so i drink espresso and i drink three espressos that more or less they are the equivalent of one cup of coffee american coffee and i have one early in the morning around nine then i have one around 11 30 and the last one by two um one thing i started doing because i wanted to reduce the caffeine intake was to switch to decaf and so i still have three espresso but they are decaf and so usually with the decaf you are just in taking one third of caffeine compared to a regular coffee and so at the end of the day it's something like if i was having only one espresso for the whole day

that's super interesting um and then you mentioned working out um as something you do in the morning Is there certain types of exercises that are better or worse for sleeping? Should I think about it in terms of running or other cardio type exercises versus weightlifting? Or is it all kind of the same? It's just burning calories. So for sleep itself, it's probably all the same. At least we don't have data about that yet. What I can tell you is when you think in terms of longevity for your body, you should think in three dimensions.

The first one is high-intensity interval training. So spike your heart rate as much as you can. Let it drop, spike it again. You will see incredible results immediately in your biometrics. Even if you just use an Apple Watch, you will be impressed. Second, you want to do weight training, or you want to really build the muscles. There is plenty of medical evidence that weightlifting is really good

for for for your longevity and for your body long term and the third one is mobility so you want to make sure as you get older that you maintain a a good mobility which will be extremely key when you start getting into the 70s or 80s yeah makes uh makes sense so we've talked a lot about uh what you can do uh kind of during the day um or before bed uh you at eight sleep really solve the problem of what people can use at night, right? And kind of what are the products that you could actually use to get better sleep? Maybe walk us through just what that product suite looks like today. Yeah. So the biggest factor impacting your sleep quality, which we didn't mention yet, is temperature. 50% of the couples, they fight around temperature. And the reason is

it's pretty simple temperature is different from for each of us when you hear people saying oh you should sleep at 68 degrees is wrong and the reason is your body temperature changes during the night and so the temperature of the environment and the temperature of the bed need to change accordingly so a fixed temperature will never work will not work for you it will not work for your wife it will not work for myself and so that is what we develop we develop a technology that changes the temperature of your body during the night based on your biometrics and there is medical evidence that through temperature adjustment we can improve your sleep performance you can fall asleep faster you can get up to 20 percent more deep sleep you can get more REM and our data shows that we are

also reducing toss and turns and wake ups by 30 to 40 percent so 96 percent of our customers are reporting better sleep with our product and so when you think about how the product works i have one uh it's amazing um i sleep colder than plena sleeps but how does the product itself actually work there's a mattress there's a pod cover but just walk us through kind of like what those products actually are yeah so there are two form factors you can buy the whole mattress and call it the lamborghini of the mattresses or the sleep performance and then there is the mattress cover so you can retrofit any dumbbell mattress let's say you don't want to change your mattress you like it you just bought it you just want to put our technology on top of it now you

can do it technology is the same across the two devices and it does two main things first dynamic temperature control so we can change the temperature of your body during the night and each side of the bed you can have a different temperature second the technology comes with embedded sensors so we able to track everything about your heart rate your respiration and your sleep and so when you've got the temperature regulation going on it's basically taking water um and it's putting it through this uh kind of cover right and uh that's what is being chilled or uh potentially even heated in some situations yeah so the temperature can range anywhere between 55 degrees and 100 degrees. It can be really cold or really hot. 90% of our customers, they're kind of in the middle,

so they don't need that extreme temperature. Some customers love to get into bed and find it extremely cold. Usually men like not to find the bed really cold, while instead women like to find it warmer. But obviously it depends. It depends on your gender, on your body fat, on your age. for example women in menopause they have hot flashes and so they want the cold bed so we are able to adjust based on all these different needs but the other key thing is we will change the temperature during the night and so usually as soon as you fall asleep we'll try to cool you and in the second part of the night when you tend to have more REM we will try to provide thermal neutrality the reason is this when you are in REM you're dreaming right and so your brain

deactivates a lot of body functions including temperature control if your brain feels that the environment is too hot or too cold it will not let you get into REM because you could die if you were like in a storm right and so the key for REM is thermal neutrality where your brain understands that the environment is safe and it can let you fall into REM. And so when this is happening, how much of this is I have to be a genius and understand my body and set the temperature and also the different times through the night correctly versus you'll tell me kind of proactively, hey, many people like you are likely to want, you know, plus or minus degrees at certain times in the night?

Yeah, so there are two tiers, right? Right now we are in the first tier. And the first tier is about suggesting you what you should set as a temperature, right? So this is the recommended temperature for people of your gender and this age. Plus we see environmental changes. So let's say the weather in Miami changes, we will provide a different recommendation. but the end goal that is going to come in a couple of months is temperature autopilot that is one of the most requested features and so we will be able to control the temperature for you so set it and

forget it we will maximize the temperature for you and then in the near future there will be different modes or profiles where you will be able to say look i want to optimize this thing let's say a lower half trade that is what we will be able to do it to do for you through machine learning and ai yeah and super smart right because basically you've got this product out uh with all the customers you're gathering data because the sensor's in the bed uh you've got a very slick kind of uh mobile phone uh application and uh over time you're just learning right and it's very similar you know i've talked before about like tesla and the fact that they've got all these cars on the road, and they're just gathering data.

And so they're so far ahead than everyone else with the data that that ends up being a pretty significant advantage. Yeah, we're collecting. I mean, we have already collected several million hours of sleep, right? And the database keeps growing. Obviously, we are in compliance with all the rules, anonymized and aggregated data. But yeah, we are learning.

We are becoming one of the largest sleep databases in the world. And based on this data, we can become better and better at optimizing your sleep. So for the people that use the existing products, either the mattress or the mattress pod, what is the kind of normal response to people? Is it longer sleep? Is it deeper sleep? What are some of the things that you see in the data that people get as a benefit? So the most obvious already today are they're falling asleep faster. And they are getting more quality of sleep. In particular, we are reducing toss and turns and we are reducing wake-ups by up to 40%.

So a really meaningful number. And so they really have this higher sleep efficiency, I would say, so they can wake up more rested in the morning. I want to talk about the future products and some of the things that you think that you guys will be able to do over time. So today you've got things that make you sleep better, but you mentioned already there's a whole nother kind of mission to the business and your vision, which is being able to turn the time that you are asleep into more productive time. Talk a little bit about kind of what you're envisioning and hoping to build in that perspective. Yeah, so first we want to reinvent the fun factor of the bed. To me, it's unacceptable that millions of people are still sleeping on a piece of damp foam that has been the same for 2,000 years. That doesn't work.

So the way your bed looks will be different soon. And we will start controlling a lot of different environmental factors, not just temperature. We will control everything to optimize your sleep and make sure that you can sleep faster. so real quick when you say you're going to change the uh kind of the shape of the bed or the or the bed as an actual form factor i don't know how much you want to talk about what exactly you're going to do but just give people a sense like are you going to try to turn the bed from laying horizontal to vertical and people are going to stand up and sleep or what how do you think about that yeah it's tricky between what i can say what i cannot say um what i would say is this

we want to control all the environmental factors that impact your sleep quality so we want to have your back while you're asleep and we want to make sure that we help you sleep faster that we track your health and we also help your body to regenerate and sleep and live longer and this connected to the second piece that is the health piece the beauty of what we do is we have a lot of space because the mattress is pretty big and our aov is high so adding sensors for 20 bucks or 40 bucks is not going to move our margins this means that we can keep adding sensors that are valuable for our users in order to be able to track more biometrics and have a better understanding of their health um a friend of mine you know she just recently lost her dad um because he had

cancer and they discovered this cancer a couple of months before uh he ended up dying that to me is unacceptable right now we don't have any control in what is going on in our body and so i want to solve and fix the problem and there is a product that is your bed that you use every single day for 10 years and so you're you're not sleeping there so you're not moving a lot you're resting and so it's the perfect environment to scan your body every single day for the next 10 years and we will see how you're aging and we will see if there is any early sign of cancer or any other disease and so when you think through that is this something that uh you'll be able to scan and you'll like stream to a doctor is it something where you'll be able to tell maybe

variations of the biometrics and then just tell people hey something seems to be off you should go see a doctor like how do you kind of look at people basically taking the information that you're able to monitor and glean and actually turn it into something that might be useful for them yeah i mean obviously there are a lot of rules and regulations and we'll be in compliance with that, but oversimplified the letters of what you just said, right? The key will be to see if there is anything off compared to your baselines. And if there is, we will notify you and we will give advice to go and talk to your doctor. The end goal is not to replace the doctor. We actually want to enable the doctor to have much more data about what is going on in your health and be able

to act sooner rather than later to save your life yeah i'm a huge fan uh as are many people on the internet and it seems like you guys have been able to build uh somewhat of a cult following um obviously if you help people sleep better maybe it's just they're in a better mood uh and so they naturally have this affinity for uh your product um but also you have this kind of aspirational uh goal and mission in terms of not only making people sleep better but also helping them to live healthier, longer lives. On top of that, what do you think is driving that kind of cult following online? And is there anything specific that you guys have done that was more intentional to kind of help build up that following and that loyalty and engagement?

Yeah, I think we did a couple of things. First, we have a very different perspective of sleep. is not to sleep like being comfy on a Sunday morning with waffles on your bed. That is not us. And that is not me, right? We are about performance. We are about, okay, this is time to recover.

It's like going to the gym. It's going to be eight hours today, hopefully less in the future. But this is a moment where you need to take care of your body to then perform at your best. And I don't think there is any other company that thought of sleep like a sort of fitness. and that is why we invented the name Sleep Fitness.

That is one. And I think second is I really think we are at 2% of our product vision and customers start understanding that we are a cutting-edge technology company. We are not a mattress company. We are not a mattress cover company. We are really trying our best to introduce technology to enhance our recovery and sleep. And I don't think there is anyone else there.

There are wearables, and they're doing a great job, but I think wearables, they stop at the data. They just try to recommend you something based on the data. The difference in our case is we are going to do the job for you. While you are asleep, our machine learning models, they're working for you to optimize your sleep performance. So we are into this together, and we will keep developing technology to improve your life and give you two hours of life back per day.

And so when you think about giving that two hours of life back, is the idea that people will be awake and functional and can kind of go do other things? Is it, no, it's going to take an hour to get ready for sleep and kind of actually fall asleep and it'll take an hour to wake up and kind of like one of those alarm clocks that almost slowly wakes you up with light and sound? How do you kind of think about that two-hour savings and what people will do with it?

So I think the end goal is to really give you two hours back that you can spend with your loved ones or that you can spend doing whatever matters to you. At the end of the day, I mean, the whole point of how the company started is because I started wondering, why do I need to sleep eight hours? Can I sleep four hours and work harder or do other things? And that is when I started reading clinical papers, and I understood that the eight hours is not written anywhere that we need eight hours. We need that amount of deep and round. And so to me is if we can make our bodies more efficient without compromising our health, without compromising our longevity, then I'm 100% for that.

But today, if you were sleeping six hours or five hours, you were doubling your risk of heart attack. You are doubling the risk of high blood pressure. You were risking of dying earlier. So all that, I'm not open to it. And so through technology, we are trying to find the compromise between these two benefits. We didn't talk about food. Is there anything there, whether it's before you go to sleep or when you wake up, that has an impact on sleep? Yeah.

So definitely, I mean, my advice is try to eat a couple of hours before going to bed. Obviously, the heavier you eat, the worse. There are a bunch of studies that have also shown that carbs will help you fall asleep faster, but the quality of sleep you get will be lower. And so try to find the right compromise. The most recommended diet is the Mediterranean diet, which is kind of balanced. with also olive oil and fish and avocado, veggies, all that kind of things. So definitely there is a direct correlation between sleep and nutrition.

The other interesting correlation is if you're sleep deprived, you will start craving more junk food. There are some changes that happen in your hormones. So there is plenty of medical evidence of why that is happening. So it's not just you that you have this placebo effect that you're craving pizza. if last night you slept four hours there is really something happening in your body and so it's really important that you try to sleep at least seven hours seven to nine hours per day to really make sure that you will also lose weight because you will keep your diet

healthier as a consequence of feeling better if we fast forward 10-15 years what's the hope for where a sleep is? Is it a mattress in every bedroom and you're scanning people's bodies or kind of what do you think, you know, 10, 15 years from now is the kind of the holy grail? Yeah, I think the concept of sleep tightness

will be mass consumer, right? So people will think of sleep like going to the gym. We will have sleep enhancement devices. You might call it beds, but they are really sleep enhancement devices. And preventative health will be huge, right? You will be able to know if there is anything wrong in your body six months,

12 months, even years before you would do today. And so you will be able to live a healthier and longer life just because of that. So if everyone calls it a bed, which is BED, and you call it a sleep enhancement device, which is SED, is that a uh an intentional uh just changing up one letter in there you just give me just give me an idea i love it um all right when you think about the one person that you would love to have

eight sleep in their hands who's the one person in the world that you don't believe has the product yet but you would love to put it in their hands oh that is a pretty good question um Mateo would never say I had a great question he'll say I had a pretty good question though um I don't know I mean I I think there are multiple people top athletes but if I could pick one I don't have a name but um any doctor who is a surgeon because he can save lives so If we can fuel his or her potential to better sleep, we might be able to start saving lives sooner to them.

That's a great answer. I ask everyone the same three questions, and then you could ask me one to finish, but one of the questions we already talked about. The first question is, what is the most important book that you've ever read? Obviously, I'm biased on that. Why Do We Sleep?

um and and i think the reason is this it will open your eyes it's not a book i'm not affiliated with with that so we don't work with matthew walker but i think um it will open your eyes about the importance of sleep and how sleep can impact your longevity and your health i think very few people including myself who are not aware or not aware of that yeah it's a fantastic book i highly recommend it uh and if people don't want to listen to the book you can just listen to him talk i think you went on rogan and a couple other podcasts did a great job there as well um the second question i usually ask people sleep routine maybe for you what time do you go to sleep and what time do you wake up yeah you know i go to sleep early and you often make fun of me but

yeah between 9 30 and 10 i'm usually in bed and by 10 i'm asleep except when i when i have dinner with you and colina and you keep me up at night so uh you don't actually go to sleep that early 9 30 10 like i try to you know go 10 o'clock it would be like a good time to go to sleep but i do laugh when uh we're trying to meet up for dinner and and i feel guilty i'm like hey do you want to meet at eight i'm like oh he's gonna try to run out at 9 15 to go home to go to sleep i love it uh last question aliens are you a believer or a non-believer 100 believer they exist and i will fuel their potential through better sleep i have not had anyone offered to give aliens a sleep enhancement device you might be the first

I will give them an SEP, no, SED device. As long as they have money and they're willing to drive revenue, then they're in the total adjustable market, right? Yeah. I should talk to my head of ops and see how we can ship to them, but we will figure it out. For those that don't know, Keith Raboy from Founders Fund now is on the board at 8Sleep.

So I would love to see the reaction when you tell Keith, hey keith we're going to increase the uh total addressable market because we're going to start to incorporate the uh the alien population as customers you know keith always says if you have a new proposal is this going to add a zero to your top line and i think the aliens can add a zero to the top line so he does say that that's great all right you could ask me one question to finish up what you got for me how many hours do you sleep at night i'm eight hours now i used to not be, I mean, you know this, I used to be, you know, five and a half, maybe six. And I was, uh, I was great. I actually, we're recording this today. And, uh, today is the day, uh, one of the

two days of the week where I do a bunch of podcast recordings and I slept seven hours and 20 minutes last night, um, after being on an Epic run of eight to nine hours. Uh, and I was telling Polina today, when we went to go get lunch, like I can feel, um, like I am not rested, which is crazy because seven hours and 20 minutes historically would have been you know the equivalent of me sleeping like eight or nine now um but it's uh once you get used to the good life she said it's hard to go back to the bad life which i agree actually there is one thing i always recommend to people and is this try to sleep one hour more per night for one week just one week commit for a week and you add one hour per day to your sleep and after that week you tell me how you feel

if you don't feel great uh we'll figure it out and and and i give you some money back but if you feel better then you will decide to stick with that yeah i i think that you tell people that because you know that they'll feel better which is a cheating uh where can we send people if they want to uh buy an eight sleep mattress or if they want to learn more about the company yeah go to eight sleep.com eight like the number but in letters so e-i-g-h-t sleep.com and you can also follow me on on twitter um i'm in the home page of the website so there is where you can find my twitter so i was gonna say you uh you're up in your twitter game i see now all of a sudden you're uh you're going viral so people should definitely go follow you uh follow you on

twitter um i think you and my brother may be having a competition on who can write better threads at the time and uh he's another level he give me tips and we are a thread 101 with me and he's the coach so don't don't tell people that because then everyone's going to be dming him asking him uh to help them he's gonna uh come back and say it's all mateo's fault yeah actually so he gave me the tip and that day i i just published the the eight hacks to improve your sleep we were already working on that but it's funny because you know we we posted the thread like three hours after i spoke to him and i got almost 5 000 likes and so he texted me saying you see i told you that threads work yeah don't let him take credit for your hard work he does he's

been doing that in my family for uh for literally 20 years he's been taking credit for everyone's hard work so don't let him steal that from you all right thank you so much for uh for coming and doing this i'm obviously a huge fan uh i sleep with the product every night couldn't recommend it more to folks so head on over to eightsleep.com and let's do this again in the future thank you thank you for having me