The Pomp Podcast - #685 The Vibe Capitalist w/ Geoff Lewis

Episode Date: October 11, 2021

Geoff Lewis is a Founder and Managing Partner of Bedrock. In 2019, Geoff was named as one of the Top 100 Venture Capitalists in the world by CB Insights and The New York Times. In this conversation, we discuss having no investing framework, being outside information flow, best investors doing nothing, investing in defense, Austin Texas, Bitcoin, Midas List, and being positive sum. ======================= Choice is a new self-directed IRA product that I'm really excited about. If you are listening to this, you are likely part of the 7.1 million bitcoin owners who have retirement accounts with dollars in them, but not bitcoin. I was in that situation too. Now you can actually buy real Bitcoin in your retirement account. I'm talking about owning your private keys and using tax-advantaged dollars to do it too. Absolute game changer. https://www.retirewithchoice.com/pomp ======================= Circle is a global financial technology firm that enables businesses of all sizes to harness the power of stablecoins and public blockchains for payments, commerce and financial applications worldwide. Circle is also a principal developer of USD Coin (USDC), the fastest growing, fully reserved and regulated dollar stablecoin in the world. The free Circle Account and suite of platform API services bridge the gap between traditional payments and crypto for trading, DeFi, and NFT marketplaces. Create seamless, user-friendly, mainstream customer experiences with crypto-native infrastructure under the hood with Circle. Learn more at circle.com.

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now, let's kick this thing off. Jeff Lewis is a founder and managing partner of Bedrock. In 2019, Jeff was named as one of the top 100 venture capitalists in the world by CB Insights and the New York Times. In this conversation, we discuss having no investing framework, being outside the flow of Information, The Best Investors Doing Absolutely Nothing, Investing in the Defense Sector, Living in Austin, Texas, Bitcoin, The Midas List, and Being Positive Some. I really enjoyed this conversation with Jeff, and I hope you do as well.

Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is BlockFi. BlockFi provides financial products for crypto investors. Those products include high-yield interest accounts, a US dollar loan product to get your crypto collateral and a no fee cryptocurrency trading product. BlockFi also just released a brand new Bitcoin Rewards credit card. It's a normal credit card. When you swipe it, you get Bitcoin back rather than cash back or airline miles. I'm an investor in the business and I've got my Bitcoin Rewards credit card. I absolutely love it. That credit card, for some reason,

it's just more fun when I swipe that card because I know I'm earning Bitcoin back rather than cash back go check it out at blockfi.com slash pomp again blockfi.com slash pomp next up is choice it's time to stop paying capital gains taxes on your bitcoin and choice is here to help choice is rebuilding the way bitcoiners approach retirement by making it possible to invest in bitcoin and 19 other digital assets inside your ira right now every time you make a trade you have to pay capital gains taxes that can be as high as 37 choice enables you to trade real bitcoin other crypto and stocks without having to pay a dime in capital gains though the best part they just released an ios app so you can open an account in less than 10 minutes and take control of your

future from the palm of your hand join me and the 20 000 other bitcoiners who have started their tax efficient stack and open your choice account today search stack sats in the app store or visit choice app.io slash pump again search stack sats in the app store or visit choice app.io slash Pomp. And one more thing, if you want to hold your own private keys, Choice lets you do that too. It's a no-brainer in my opinion. I'm using it. I think that you'll enjoy it too. Choiceapp.io slash Pomp. Last but not least is Circle. Circle's a global financial technology firm that enables businesses of all sizes to harness the power of stablecoins and public blockchains for payments, commerce, and financial applications worldwide. Circle's also a principal

developer of USD coin or USDC, which is the fastest growing regulated, fully reserved dollar stable coin in the world, which now stands at more than $30 billion market cap. And it's adding nearly $300 million of net new digital dollars in circulation every single week. The free circle account and suite of platform API services bridges the gap between traditional payments and crypto for trading defined NFT marketplaces. You can learn more by going to circle.com. Again, head over to Circle.com. I've had many people from the leadership team at Circle come on the podcast before, and I'm really impressed with the growth of that fully regulated, fully reserved dollar stable coin. Go to Circle.com to learn more. All right, let's get in this episode with Jeff. I

hope you guys enjoy this one. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Jeff, are you there? Hey, what's up?

How are you? Doing well. How about you? I'm doing fantastic. We've got a whole bunch of stuff to talk about. First, I want to just tell everyone a little bit about Jeff. Jeff is, I joke, but not really, that he's one of the last independent thinkers available on the internet.

If you're not following Jeff on Twitter, you're missing out. So please go follow him. But Jeff, you recently moved to Austin. Maybe we'll start there. What was the thought process between leaving and then moving to Austin versus anywhere else? Yeah, I mean, I didn't really leave. I didn't really leave anywhere.

So, you know, I sort of travel around. I go places. I was living on Kauai for several months prior to moving here. And the debate was really around going back to sort of a major city. So, you know, I'd split my time. I think you and I met in New York. I sort of split my time between SF, which is just at this point, a total shithole city. So I could never go back there. I'm New York, which I think is still probably pretty good. The debate was between returning to one of those or trying something different. And in spending so much time on the beach, on Kauai, out on the water, I really realized that I actually get a lot of energy from just having a lot of empty space around me. I always thought I was a city person and wanted to be in a crowded city, but I love having space.

And so I think it's a question for me of what gives you energy. For me, I get a lot of energy from having space, space to think. Austin has this very frontier feel to it. A lot of independent thinkers are moving here. Maybe it's very kind of you to say I'm one of the few that are still available on the internet. Actually, I think there are quite a few and a lot of them are here in Austin. So a lot of space and a lot of interesting heterodox thinkers. And so far, it's been pretty good. It's been a few months and planning to stay. Talk to us about Bedrock. You've got one of the more interesting portfolios because a lot of the companies are companies that either other venture capitalists don't find interesting, don't find valuable. They don't

have the courage and conviction to invest in a whole bunch of different stuff. But what is the investment thesis of bedrock when you when you talk to investors or founders? I mean, our whole like guiding ethos is we are truly trying to find what we call these narrative violations. So these companies that are either, you know, undiscovered or underestimated, because they run contrary to a popular narrative. And so this really animates a lot of the stuff we've done everything from our early investing in cryptocurrencies when we were first getting started with the firm. Obviously, we talked a lot about Bitcoin and Ethereum and things like that. To the companies that we invest in, things like Flock Safety, we're one of the largest investors, one of the

earliest investors. That's a company that uses computer vision, sort of crime-solving cameras to help municipalities solve crime. And when we initially invested in Flock, for example, back in 2018, no one was talking about there being sort of a major crime problem in the United States. No one thought it was a problem that needed to be solved. Moreover, that was a company that monetizes. While it monetizes through a SaaS subscription, there is a hardware component. And Peloton was not a huge public company. People were scared to invest in hardware. But we both thought that crime was a huge problem and that you could have these hardware businesses that monetize through SaaS. And those could actually be

very valuable. And fast forward to 2021, on. Flock's valued at, I don't think I should disclose it, but many multiples of where we initially invested, we've continued to back up the truck into it as it's scaled. And the murder rate, unfortunately, this is really bad for society. We wish it wasn't the case, but it increased by 30% in 2020. That is the largest single year increase in US history. Largest single year increase in the murder rate in US history. And Flock is kind of an antidote to this antidote to this issue. And so we try to find these counter-narrative companies. A lot of it actually comes down to feeling a vibe with a certain entrepreneur, with a certain

company mission, and then really peeling back the layers, really digging into the business over quite a long period of time before we invest. So it runs pretty contrary to the way that venture capital is being done today, where you meet someone on Zoom for 20 minutes, then wire them $100 million the next day. When you think about defense and public safety, you just talked about one of the companies, but it seems like that maybe hasn't become taboo, but there's a bunch of people in what I'll just label as Silicon Valley. It's not geographically contained just there, but the tech industry more in general. For some reason, it's become like not an important thing, or even in some cases, they've actually tried to shun working in the defense industry or with

public safety, law enforcement, et cetera. Talk a little bit about like, do you have a thesis there? Is it something that, again, just literally you meet the founders, you like the mission and you back them? How do you think about it? Yeah, I mean, the way that we think about defense broadly is, you know, there's sort of this fundamental belief that I think we have as a team, which is we're actually, you know, quite pessimistic generally about the world. And so we're not sort of these bright eyed optimists about the future.

We actually are relatively pessimistic, sort of broadly speaking. But I think we're like quite, quite specifically optimistic. So we think there are these sort of specific things people can do. There are specific companies, there are specific places, perhaps, so places like Austin, or where you live, Palmton, Miami, we're sort of optimistic about these, optimistic about these places. And sort of the, we think the cleanest manifestation of this sort of generalized pessimism, specific optimism is sort of, there's a lot we can do in defense. And it's obviously existential for the US as a country. We have to imbue our defense industry with real technology. There's been this insane sort of cartel of defense contractors and primes that have sort of controlled the defense industry for half a century. And we have to bring Silicon Valley prowess, engineering, state-of-the-art technology into that area. So we're very proud to be investors in companies like Onderill, like Eperus, like Modern Intelligence, all of which are taking different cuts and trying to really imbue the defense industry with Silicon Valley-style innovation. Quite honestly, Flock, on a sort of more municipal, civic level, we view as also a manifestation of this defense theme. And then the hesitance of Silicon Valley investors and entrepreneurs and engineers to work in defense, I think, I think they're becoming a lot less hesitant. So I think that there was sort of maybe this, I think maybe the sort of pandemic and 2020 kind of woke people up to the fact that you can't sort of just slide into this like nihilistic zone, where nothing really matters. And, you know, you should just be, you know, sort of coding, making the Google PageRank algorithm better or something, something stupid like that. actually of one light. There are things that matter. There are things that you can do as an

engineer, as an entrepreneur. And one of the most important areas to work in, we believe, is in defense technology. So we're really excited to have done a fair amount there. Yeah. And some of the companies you named are absolutely amazing companies with really kind of breakthrough technologies. Talk to me about when I think of you, vibe capitalists. So most people look at venture capitalists. They have a specific kind of framework in their head or some generalizations. You have pioneered and popularized the idea of a vibe capitalist. When you were in Hawaii, there were shirtless photos. There was videos with your glasses on. I think at one point you were even showing people how to use the forehead temperature

kind of reader. And I think people just found it very refreshing, right? You were literally talking about serious topics. Obviously, you've got kind of this expertise and experience in technology and investing, but you did it in a different way. So what exactly is a vibe capitalist? And like, where did this come from? Yeah, absolutely. Well, we're going to be bringing the videos back. We're getting the custom thermometer made right now and building out the studio here in Austin. So a temp check with Jeff will be back soon. And thanks for those kind words. You know, this whole idea of a vibe capitalism, sort of an outgrowth of where I think we're at in this technology, this incredible, this phenomenal technological

cycle that we've been in really since I got into the industry. And really, initially as an entrepreneur in 2009, now as an investor, I started doing investing in 2012. And really, we've gotten to a point where algorithms really mediate so many of our interactions as humans. They mediate how we work with each other. So if you're scaling up a company today, chances are, you've probably never met in person the employees you're hiring if you're running sort of a remote or hybrid company today. That's just crazy to imagine 10 years ago, hiring hundreds of employees a day. These folks are never meeting the teams they work with. It makes us a lot more efficient. You can communicate really efficiently via Slack.

We're doing this via Zoom. So algorithms really do optimize for efficiency. And efficiency is not a bad thing. Efficiency is actually, I believe, a very good thing. But efficiency is not an end goal in and of itself. And I feel like we are in a zone societally, because of all of this technology we have enabling us, where it's sort of easy to mistake efficiency for sort of an enabling tool to help you live a better life, to help enrich your humanity, for efficiency being an end goal in and of itself. And this is, you know, why sort of, I don't really like investing in productivity tools, because I feel that sort of, you know, the anti-vibe type company, it's all about just efficiency is the end goal, where there are these other types of businesses and

companies where the algorithmic agenda is in service to a bigger mission, is in service to an end goal. And so there's not really a vibe capital framework, but there is a vibe capital filter. And I'd say that the vibe capital filter, we're still working on figuring it out. I'm going to be giving a keynote speech at Web Summit in Lisbon on November 2nd, where we're going to go through this framework in depth. But it's some version of filtering companies, filtering your own personal life, actually, through a filter of, is the algorithmic agenda of the algorithms that you're engaging with, is it serving your own personal agency? Or is it synonymous with your own personal agency? Are they the same? Or is the algorithmic agenda

serving you? And so for you, Pomp, you're a vibe capitalist, man. You've mastered the algorithms. they're serving you, they're serving Pomp. What you're doing is not synonymous with the Twitter algorithm or the YouTube algorithm. You're using those to serve your own agency. The company version of this would be, does the algorithmic agenda serve a company? Or if we're talking about the decentralized world, Web3, a protocols mission, which is also a reflection of the entrepreneur's mission, or is it synonymous with the mission? So you can think about something like Bitcoin. The mission with Satoshi is all around shifting economic control and power into the hands of individuals and communities. Contrast that versus something like... So that's a vibe.

Bitcoin's a vibe, okay? That's a vibe capitalist type thing to be involved in. I would argue that something like Shiba Inu is not. Shiba Inu is not. It's just derivative of Dogecoin. So there's some version of this where Shiba Inu is like an efficiency thing, even though it seems like a joke. It's kind of, you know, to Dogecoin, what lazy line is to board eight or something like that. So more derivative, you know, a company example would be something like NewBank, where I was a very early investor on behalf of a venture capital firm that I used to be a partner at prior to founding Bedrock, where their mission statement, and they live this, they've lived this from the first day I met that company in 2015, is to imagine a different world. It starts off with,

you know, imagine a different world where what matters is your values, not the value in your bank account. So yeah, they're a neobank. They started out issuing credit cards and writing algorithms around that. But their mission is very different from what those algorithms are actually doing. That is vibe capitalism versus something like Google, where their mission starts out with organize the world's information. That's exactly what the algorithms do. They give you the most efficient search experience. They give the advertisers the most efficient way to reach people. Google is all about efficiency. It is not a vibe company. And so we sort of have this filter around algorithmic agendas and efficiency that we use. And there's a level on which it layers up to

the people running the company. So think about Travis running Uber versus Dara running Uber. I was on the board of Lyft for many years while I hated competing against Travis. That guy has a vibe. Dara, not so much. Steve Jobs versus Scully. And it can also go the other direction. So, you know, think about Twitter when Dick Costello was CEO, sort of this, you know, kind of like a failed comedian or something like that. And one might think he has a vibe, but I would argue that Jack Dorsey has much more of a vibe. And so we sort of think about things on all these levels and try to optimize more in a vibe direction. As you already know, I love this framework. And it's one of those things where I think like once you start to understand it, you see the examples, it's very easy to identify if you're looking for it. But it also requires something you've talked a lot about is like being outside of the information

flow. So maybe tell us a little bit. You went on a trip recently and you tweeted out. You were like, hey, I didn't talk to anybody. And then all of a sudden I came back and like everything is doing well. Like maybe the best thing an investor can do sometimes is not do anything or remain outside of that flow of information because it allows them to kind of think differently. So talk a little bit kind of how you're thinking about it, at least right now.

Yeah. I mean, one of the challenges as one gets sort of more successful and we've scaled Bedrock pretty rapidly, managed about a billion dollars now, sort of less than four years old, is that you get pulled into all of these information flows. People want to share things with you. And actually, all of the best investing I've done was I was sort of an outsider reaching out to an entrepreneur, discovering something that other people weren't looking at. I wasn't in the mainstream Silicon Valley flow of information. And I think it's been sort of this very valuable thing for me. I think at Bedrock, we don't want to be totally outside the information flows. We sort of need people to know what's going on. I've got great partners in Eric and

Spencer at Bedrock, where we sort of are keyed in a bit to what's happening. But I try and spend real chunks of time outside of the flow. And more specifically, I do feel like there are these phases of cycles where things just get so frenzied that the decision-making can get very sloppy. You can end up making very manic investment decisions. And I felt this way in Q4 2017. We were trying to kick off our fundraise for Bedrock. You had the crazy run-up in Bitcoin and the crazy ICO craze. And I really sat that stage of the cycle out. I didn't really do any ICO investing. I was sort of just sat it out. It felt too frenzied. One might argue that maybe the sort of growth stage, late stage venture capital markets today, maybe even the public markets in

some of these areas are maybe just a little bit too frenzied. And so I tried to sort of take part of the summer to really just take a vacation from investing. And I think I made more money this summer that I've made in a really long time. So sometimes you can just sort of do nothing if you've got the right portfolio in place and try and check out when things feel very frenzied. I don't think you want to feel pressured to participate in a frenzy because everyone else is doing it. That's sort of the opposite of operating with personal agency. That's sort of getting pulled in by the algorithmic agendas, whether it's on Robinhood or Twitter or anything like that, into a frenzy. You always want to try and avoid that the extent you can.

Yeah. I tend to think that that's right. You also have talked about this idea of iconic companies vibing with iconoclastic investors. What's that mean? Well, you always want to be careful using the word iconoclast because historically, as I've sort of used it, but historically, it just means tearing down. There's no building up element. So if you're just a pure iconoclast, you're sort of ripping things down, but you're not creating anything to replace them. But the way that I use that phrase, iconoclastic founders, iconic classic investors, is vibe is something intangible. It's a feeling. It's just something that you sense, you feel, you vibe with someone. And the word's really, I think, been cheapened,

this idea of vibe, because it's sort of become a meme. I started using it and everyone's tweeting about it. But it actually means something profoundly human that can't be captured by an algorithm. And I do think there is just this sense in which there are very few investors out there. I think you're one of them. I can think of maybe a dozen more, very few folks investing in technology that have a public presence, that are digitally engaged, that are sharing their thinking, that have a real vibe, that are iconoclastic, that believe in things, that are trying to seek out truth versus just sort of doing what's popular, getting the most engagement. And I feel like there's a set of entrepreneurs doing the most interesting things that vibe with

that set of investors. And so sort of just being true to yourself and trying to seek out truth and being courageous in the world, there's a lot of value one can generate or unlock or partake in through just being a little bit iconoclastic. But the caveat to this is you have to actually be trying to build things too. You can't just tear institutions down as broken as the old institutions are. So completely unrelated, yet somewhat related. You went on a tear. I can't remember it was the end of last year, beginning of this year, with the Midas list, which for those that don't know is the Forbes list of most successful investors in a given year. And everyone, I think, pretty much knows like how they count can be kind of subjective. And if you don't

fit in the box, then that it doesn't count to some degree. But walk us through your Midas list, locking of the horns. And are you submitting? Are you going to give them your returns? I don't submit. I'm too legit to submit. So no, I will not be submitting to the Midas list. I did it when I was much more insecure and earlier in my career. I submitted, I think, 2 or 3 years to the list, the numbers. It's all completely subjective. So it actually falls into this category of what I call these faux quantitative type things. And one could argue one of the really common metrics when you invest in private technology companies is NPS, Net Promoter Score. That's like a faux quantifiable. ESG, Environmental Social Good.

It's kind of a faux quantifiable. You create these sort of fake metrics, but really it's sort of the subjective type thing. You're trying to quantify something that's fundamentally qualitative. And the Midas list sort of is a different cut on this where they ask the VCs to submit. So you can go to SubmitMidasData.com. There's an actual website you can check out. Entrepreneurs should really check that website out. I'd really encourage founders to go look at SubmitMidasData.com, see what data the Midas

is actually collecting on your businesses, all because these venture capitalists want to be ranked on this list. And at the end of the day, all of that data, it's really just information gathering for the list keepers, for the list keepers. And in fact, they rank things. Ultimately, it's their subjective judgment that actually drives the ultimate ranking. And they even admit that in the asterisks on the submit Midas data site. So you always have to disclose your biases. One of my mentors who I have a lot of respect for has this phrase where it's okay to have biases, but you've got to disclose them. And my biases, I'm very strongly biased against

the Midas list because I should have been on it. I should have been on it many times and they're biased against me. And then at the end of the day, I'm just too legit to submit. So the VCs can keep fighting over their ranking on the Midas list. I'm busy generating vibes over here and we'll see what happened to old King Midas. His lust for gold led to his death and we'll sort of see what happens to the Midas list. I just created the pop list and I just put you as number one. So my subjective list has you at the top. Oh yeah. Okay. Now we're vibing. I got one more question. Then I got my brothers here. They got a couple of questions for you, but there's this framework, fuck you money versus ignore you money. What's the difference?

You know, I look, I'm, I sort of try to have a positive energy. So I'm, you know, I'm sort of pessimistic about, about a lot of things with the future. I try and focus on, on the good. And, you know, it's, it just doesn't really feel worth to me in life, like trying to really fuck someone over. Like there are, there are these hyper successful people where it's like, okay, now that I have this level of wealth, I can just use this to fuck this person over. I'm just going to fuck them. And that's not really ever been a motivating thing for me. I kind of feel like free at this point where it's like, I don't have to worry about like fucking other people over. I can live my life. I can work with people I really care

about at Bedrock and with the companies that we invest in. If someone has wronged me, and trust me, many, many people have wronged me over the years. There's a very long list of people that have wronged me, but I just choose to ignore them. I don't really want to fuck with anyone. And I feel like orienting around this fuck you money concept is actually quite unhealthy. It actually may be borderline. It's not nihilistic. At least you believe in fucking people over, but there's definitely something somewhat unhealthy about that being the animating factor for you once you've made it. Joe, John, what questions do you guys have?

Yeah. Jeff, thanks for doing this. First off, your chain is giving off good vibes. I like that right there. It's like $5. I think I got it at 7-Eleven or something, but I'm trying to not look like a boomer or something like that. I respect it. Even better than it was cheaper. So what's going on in San Francisco? You used to live there for a decade. You've obviously moved to Austin. What are the problems they're facing and how do you think that impacts the companies you're investing in? Man, well, there's a whole litany of problems. I'm definitely not an expert on it. I haven't lived there. So if the California FTB, the tax collection agency, I've not lived in California since 2017. So I'm really not positioned

to comment too much on San Francisco today. But certainly, they've screwed up all of the key things. So it's been crime. You need a relatively safe city. So that's sort of this completely out of control DA in Chesa, who has just completely destroyed things from a crime standpoint. You've got the homeless issue, which San Francisco had. You know, the wealthiest city really in the world has the most income inequality, the most wealth inequality in the United States. That city's had decades to solve the homelessness problem. They sort of haven't been able to tackle it.

They've alienated the tech entrepreneurs, the people who really brought the prosperity to the region. And there is sort of this mass exodus type thing going on. I really hope it can get fixed. The challenge, I think, at a very nuanced level is you have a very powerful board of supervisors. Actually, this is a challenge in Austin, where I live now as well, where you've got a weak mayor and all of these supervisors where it's very hard to really get anything done. And so I think there's a sense in which if you're a city, you sort of want a government structure. It's quite easy to get things done, quite easy to make changes, make decisions. And San Francisco has an opposite, extreme opposite version of this.

It's almost impossible to get things done because of the way the Board of Supervisors works. And there's a lighter weight version of this in Austin, although I think things are in much, much, much better shape here. But I am really bearish on SF. I think Silicon Valley will still remain the epicenter. So, you know, one of the things that's, you know, good about Silicon Valley is there's lots of boring places outside of San Francisco that are very different. You can live in the East Bay, you can live in the South Bay. And I think a lot of folks, you know, will just continue to choose to do that. There's a version of that in Austin. It's somewhat more boring than Miami, which for me is a feature, not a bug.

But, you know, different strokes for different folks. John, what questions you got? Yeah. Thanks, Jeff, for doing this. Really appreciate it. It's nice to meet you. Bitcoin is definitely a vibe. I'm going to have to agree on that one. 100, 100, yeah.

I'm curious, even when the Bitcoin protocol becomes the norm, what companies and different, I guess, features are you excited to see being built? Yeah, I mean, look, I think Bitcoin right now, to me, I still buy into the store of value narrative there. I feel like maybe Ethereum is becoming the programmable money type thing. And then I really am intrigued by NFTs and some of these other, I think Solana is very interesting. I'm trying to wrap my head more around NFTs and get an understanding there. But I really do just believe that there's such a high volume.

And I think about all the most talented, interesting, people with unique, one-of-a-kind vibes. A lot of those people are going into this world, into this universe. And I definitely think it's here to stay in some form. We obviously have sort of this existential risk with the governments, but I do think it's here to stay in some form. And I'm excited about the whole ecosystem. I do feel like I've been not as engaged really as I should have been. Back in 2014, I spoke at Coin Summit London. I was sort of early to this whole world. And I remember that conference very well. And I sort of just ended up buying some of these things and holding them and ever sold along the way. Every time I've sold, I've regretted it. And so I'm working right now.

My mission for 2022 is to just get much more engaged in this entire universe. And I think there are things more off the radar like Erbit that are worth exploring and worth really digging into. But there's a ton of creative energy and a lot of excitement on my end around this whole area. Jeff, one of my questions for you is, what's your normal day look like? Like in terms of you, you've got a couple of different things going on, but you also try to stay outside that flow of information. You kind of take this different approach. What do you do during the day?

And like, what does that kind of schedule look like? Well, I try and spend as little time as possible on Zoom. So this is an exception to my rules. I'm hardly ever on Zoom. I do a lot of running, walking, hiking, climbing. So I like to be outside. I like to be active. I like to be physical.

I'm then just meeting with smart, interesting people like in person. And so if I have to hop on a plane to meet with someone, I'll do that. I love when people come visit me. But I spend a lot of time meeting with people. That's one of the great joys of this stage of the pandemic. It's a little bit less acute right now. And so it's meeting different people, trying not to have a schedule. So there's basic routines.

I want to eat at the same time every day. I want to try and work out at the same time every day. You want to carve out time for independent thinking. There are obviously basic things you have to do in terms of like, there's board meetings. or things like that that you've got to do. But I try and schedule those in predefined blocks and then leave as much unstructured time as possible for thinking, for activity, for being healthful and mindful as possible and not get pulled in. Again, back to Vibe, not get pulled

into letting an algorithmic agenda, whatever the algorithm is, dictate my agenda for the day. I'm sort of always trying to avoid that very consciously. Got it. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find out more about Bedrock? Jeff Lewis, org on Twitter. And it's spelled GEOFF, G-E-O-F-F, Lewis org. And you can check out our website, bedrockcap.com. Thanks so much. All right. Well, hold on. I'm not letting you leave. I got one more question. What's your pitch to founders? If founders are building a business, why should they work with you or what do they get out of it? What's kind of when you sit down with the founder, what's the Bedrock pitch? Well, the best sales people never sell. So I can't disclose that on

that's the best pitch possible all right bedrockcap.com uh is what you said that's right b-e-d-r-o-c-k like make the bedrock cap c-a-p.com all right bedrockcap.com or jefflewisorg uh jeff the people in the comments are asking how much you're benching these days i'm like i'm like i'm a little bit yoked right now i haven't i haven't been hitting the gym as much as i usually do i've more focused on cardio. So I'm a bit emaciated, but we'll, we'll do some more shirtless stuff soon. I'll get the walking program. I got it. Wait, hold on. Cause I got you on here. I got to say this, the very first one that he put up, uh, with the, the temp check, but I don't think you were calling it temp check at first. I think it was just a video that he did. He was in Hawaii

and everyone was like, what the fuck is going on? Where is he? And then of course I talked to him and he was like, Oh, I'm in Hawaii. And I was like, are you going to keep doing them? And he was like, yeah, of course. And then the next one was like you on like a rock somewhere in like nature. And I was like, this is going to get crazy real fast. And there's going to be some people who love it and some people who absolutely hate it. And that's exactly what happened. So I love it. I think you should keep doing it. It's coming back. So it's coming back game on. Thanks for the support. Awesome, man. All right. Thanks so much for doing this. We'll talk soon. Thanks, Jeff. Thanks, everyone. Bye.