The Pomp Podcast - #703 Uncovering Alpha in the Crypto Market w/ Delphi Digital

Episode Date: October 28, 2021

Delphi Digital is the leader in crypto research. Today we are joined by Anil Lulla and Yan Liberman from the Delphi team.  In this conversation, we discuss Delphi Digital’s inception, their research division, the Delphi track record, where alpha exists in the market, and why institutions may struggle to win.  ======================= With 10M+ users, Crypto.com is the easiest place to buy, and sell 100+ cryptocurrencies. The Crypto.com Visa Card gives you up to 8% back instantly, and 100% back on Spotify and Netflix. Also, Crypto.com lets you earn up to 8.5% p.a. on BTC, and 14% p.a. on stablecoins. Get $25 when you download the Crypto.com App with code "pomp". Download the App now: https://crypto.onelink.me/J9Lg/pomppodcast2021 ======================= Matrixport is Asia’s fastest-growing digital asset platform founded by crypto veterans Jihan Wu and John Ge. With $10 billion in assets under management and custody. Matrixport offers one-stop crypto-financial solutions including fixed income, Defi in 1-click, structured products, Cactus Custody™, spot OTC and lending. You can earn a high double-digit yield with the Dual Currency Product or opt for the lucrative potential of our new product, Range Sniper. If you hold crypto and are actively looking to do more with your precious asset, then this app is one you don’t want to miss. Download the Matrixport App and enjoy a welcome offer of 30% APY on Fixed Income for new users. Visit invest.matrixport.com/en today. ======================= Cosmos is building the Internet of Blockchains, marking a new era of interoperability, scalability, and usability. The free flow of assets and data between blockchains with bridges to Ethereum and Bitcoin will unleash the potential of DeFi, NFTs, and much more. Dive into Cosmos at cosmos.network/pomp

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Delphi Digital is the leader in crypto research. Today, we are joined by Anil Lula and Jan Lieberman from the Delphi team. In this conversation, we discuss Delphi Digital's inception, their research division, the Delphi track record, where Alpha exists in the market, and why institutions may struggle to win. I really enjoyed this conversation with both Anil and Jan, and I hope that you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is Crypto.com. They're helping to mainstream the crypto industry, starting major

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Download the Matrixport app and enjoy a welcome offer of high yield on fixed income for new users. Go to matrixport.com or click on the link in the description. All right, let's get in this episode with both Anil and Jan. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement

to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, guys. Bang, bang. I have Jan and Anil here from Delphi Digital. Super excited about this. How are you guys doing?

Great. Thanks for having us on. Of course. Let's start out maybe with, I know you explaining what is Delphi Digital. You guys are one of these crypto native firms I've watched from the very beginning as you guys have kind of grown and put your hands in all corners of the industry, but how do you guys think about it? Yeah. So, you know, we basically started Delphi, you know, Jan, myself, our three co-founders, Tom, Kevin, and MJ, we all come from traditional finance backgrounds and we started Delphi as a, you know, research firm. We basically wanted to cut through the noise and kind of, you know,

give a high action signal to basically anyone looking in the space and basically created a product that we would use, right? And we started a research firm because one, it fit our backgrounds, obviously, but two, we thought, you know, if we could get paid to learn about the space, it'd kind of feel like cheating. So started that back in, you know, 2018, obviously got in touch with you pretty early on. You've been a big supporter for a while now. And, you know, since then Delphi has kind of taken on a life of its own. You know, we started with five of us and now, this isn't a joke, but now we're at 69 employees. And funny enough, we have three main divisions, research, which is what we started with, subscription service, labs, which basically

was consulting, which we can get into as well. But now we're incubating projects and ventures where we basically invest our capital into projects that we're really big fans of and think will make a big impact on the space. I love that you have to qualify with this is not a joke. That tells you everything you need to know about this industry. So you guys have grown really, really quickly. Talk to me about, let's start with the research business first in terms of how big is the team? What's the type of research that you all are focused on and what's the cadence of the research that you guys put out? Yeah, absolutely. So, you know, now the research team is over 20 analysts. We also have like engineers there. We actually have a huge kind

of like big data product that's coming out end of year as well. You know, essentially what we've become really well known for are our deep dive research reports. You know, our head of research, MJ, has kind of done a really great job leading kind of like our research team and showing them the ropes of where to find data and exactly where to find information as well as to question that information. So, you know, a lot of the information right now on crypto is kind of like very fragmented, right? You'll have a lot of resources like crypto Twitter, but then at the same time, like news

publications like Masari, um, in the block, um, and then, you know, a whole variety of data, uh, data providers. Um, but we, what we really do is we look at, um, you know, places in the market that we think aren't being focused enough because we think that that that's where the alpha is. And we dig really deep and kind of understand, um, you know, all the ins and outs and then kind of like portray that to all our members. All right. And then when you guys think about that research business, it's kind of grown very big, both from an analyst perspective and also from just the audience that consuming the research. Jan, talk a little bit about how the research ends up feeding into the investing strategy and how you guys get an advantage for having done such

deep diligence on both the industry on specific verticals and then also on specific teams or opportunities. Yeah, no, that's a good question. And so early on in the crypto space, I think a lot of the subject areas didn't contain a lot of breadth where you can kind of understand a lot of topics pretty in depth and and and you know be not as obviously not a subject matter expert because no one really is but have a pretty strong grasp of these ideas i guess relative to the the general understanding of them but as the space has really grown um we realize it's it's just tough to keep up with all the kind of areas and and uh it's been a really big bonus to have this kind of uh research arm where um we're able to share the ip and share the resources so on the

venture side you know we're looking at deals um we're working with portfolio companies a lot of these we realize you know how much time you really need to dedicate to working with these portfolio companies uh and so you know one benefit that we have is this massive pool of of kind of ip where you can tap into if someone's a subject matter expert in a certain area we can pull them in um whether that's for portfolio company work but also just in the initial due diligence where you You know, now you have to understand a combination of token economics, competitors, the tech stack, the individual kind of protocols and kind of understanding what the advantages and disadvantages of certain ones are. And so having the ability to tap into this kind of, you know, a hive mind of IP is really useful for us. And so I think we do a really good job of trying to utilize that efficiently where we know who's good at what and where it makes sense to pull certain individuals in.

And so we're able to kind of bring in very specific, almost like due diligence teams for different projects. And that's both pre and post investment. When you think about the opportunities that you all have found, there's a number. I mean, literally, we could spend the entire time talking about win after win after win after win. I'll go as far as to say that you all are one of, if not the best investors in the entire crypto industry. And, you know, maybe at some point we'll let people know why I think that, but help understand like just what are some of those wins and maybe walk us through one or two of the investments that you all made. When did you meet the team? How did you actually find them? And

then what gave you the conviction to invest and what was the outcome so far? Yeah, no, that's a great question i'd say you know um we we've we always joke about how we've kind of been built on a kind of a combination of wins and and really um reusing that capital efficiently but i'd say you know the two of the biggest one or uh two of the largest were you know ruin early on that was a really big one so we kind of got into defy early just based on um the nature of the research business where we had to figure out um what made sense and where value accrued and naturally defy was a kind of a great bridge there um in terms of you know value pool for tokens and so through that we were able to um get in uh involved with the room team very early on so that was one of the

larger ones where um you know we've done well where that was a single cent or rather you know rooms priced at a few cents at the time and then um the largest one is we got involved with them in 2018 where we're looking into just crypto gaming and realistically you know they're the only game that we looked at that's even still alive but at the time they were head and shoulders above everyone else and so you know we kept in touch with them and then in 2019 we worked with them on their token design and then fortunately had the ability to lead the round in 2020 which was right as uh the venture fund was launching um and and yeah that's that's certainly been another big winner for us it really comes down to you know a combination and i think you'll kind of get the

the same response from most people, but it's, you know, uh, token economics, understanding the market, uh, really understanding the team's vision and their kind of, uh, conviction and what they're doing and then, um, helping them in any way possible. So talk a little bit about, you guys had very deep conviction. You made very concentrated bets. Uh, when you first started out, you didn't have a ton of capital to deploy, but, uh, you continue to make a number of great concentrated bets, uh, walk through kind of the investing strategy or like asset allocation strategy of wide concentration versus kind of a more diversified portfolio? And then how do you guys think about recycling that capital, given that there's liquidity faster, people can hold

it, but there's still a material amount of upside when something is liquid in the market? Just talk through that a little bit. Yeah, that's a great question. So we started with just a million. So for us, with that amount of capital, we had to be very early and pretty high concentration there where we couldn't really spread that too thin. And so for us, at the time as well, where the market wasn't as large and so there was still a lot of kind of opaqueness to it, for us, we realized if we can get involved

with these teams early and know that that's where we can make the biggest impact, whether that's on token econ or protocol design, we realized that that was the biggest value add we could really provide. And so for us, it just made sense to really, once we were kind of bought into an investment, really committing as much time as physically possible to helping improve it, helping people understand why this makes sense. And so that's

kind of where a lot of the synergies across the business lines came into play as well. But for us, all of our bets are very long-term bets. And we hold the majority of the position that we've invested in a lot of these concentrated bets as well. It's not something where we recycle. these are bets that we think have it can stand the test of time and so that that's kind of the the logic for really being high conviction early on and so just based on kind of that um process we're able to you know shave a small amount of these positions and kind of reallocate early on and so like our idea was to continue trying to be the the first check in the door so that we can and and working with the team as closely as possible just you know a lot of these teams

have to focus on what they're building, but just by the nature of kind of our design, we're able to help them understand the competitive landscape and kind of all the other elements there. And that becomes a really big value add for these teams where they can really focus on doing what they do best. And then we can kind of supplement in areas where we think we can really help. Got it. And Anil, maybe you can talk a little bit about, you guys had this big consulting arm. This is how you found a lot of these projects early on, combined with the research, you're able to help do token design, token economics. What was that business? Why was it so valuable in terms of helping from the investing perspective? And then you guys recently shut that down and have moved

it more towards like a labs model. So maybe you can talk a little bit about the decision to cease that work and then what you're going to do in its place. Yeah. So funny enough, when we first started Delphi, our first year or first six, seven months, at least, we're mostly just doing consulting for big funds in the space, like BlockTower and you know, other crypto funds really diving into certain sectors. And, you know, that's actually how we found Axie, like Jan mentioned earlier. But, you know, really when we walked through why, you know, we had this big Ethereum report, we walked through why the economics of E2.0 were a little bit, you know, iffy from a security perspective. And that was really a big moment for

us because within 24 hours, we were talking to Vitalik, the whole E2.0 core team. Like a month later, he, you know, we sent him our models and everything, and he pushed through an updated proposal went on like a lower shin podcast and shouted this out and that's one when the flood gates really opened for a lot of these protocols reaching out to be like all right these guys can actually help us think through um you know certain incentive mechanisms within our protocol and network but two would also kind of give us a big confidence boost as well and kind of like was an inflection point for delphi where we realized instead of just helping people understand the space we could also help the space kind of evolve and uh you know make maybe the right decisions

rather than going down the wrong path so that's when we started uh you know one we were already like you know really infatuated with defy what was going on there we're really excited this is still in 2019 but um we started working closely with some of the you know pioneers in that space so like um synthetics uh you know ave compound uh it gave us a huge amount of insights both from like uh you know getting that builder input when you know you're you're on the phone with Cain or Stani, you know, every week, you just have a whole different perspective of the market that you don't really just get just from following crypto Twitter or anything like that. So one, it made us realize just how much of an edge and, you know, how much alpha there was in

building. But two, you know, actually, you know, consulting and actually giving these protocols, these ideas and feedback and, you know, new designs. More often than not, they, you know, took our advice but there were certain uh points where maybe they didn't uh they weren't able to prioritize some of the things that we thought were important or something like that so we very quickly realized that you know we could also be building these protocols ourselves and build it exactly the way that we thought and prioritize the things that we thought were more important well uh you know relative to what you know maybe other protocols that we didn't have uh you know our hands in uh good so you know we introduced Delphi Labs earlier this year we shut down the

consulting division, because we wanted to, you know, focus all our time on the incubations that we have. I'm sure Jan can kind of dive into some of the incubations that, you know, our partners, Jose and Luke have been leading, most of which are on Terra, actually, which is a network we're pretty, you know, excited about and been working, you know, very heavily on. But I mean, we're really excited, because I think, you know, one thing that I think people will realize is, you know, a lot of what's going on on other layer ones, I think people are very quick to say, you they're usually copycats or something like that. I think there is a lot of innovation happening across layer ones, but I think one thing that's going to be really cool for us to release later

this year, literally in the next 60 days, is this money market called Mars Protocol on Terra, where we've basically innovated on every layer of the stack. The governance model, how the token's distributed, how the money market itself works, a dynamic interest rate model. So it was really exciting for us to be able to just have this playground to experiment on and take all the learnings from both our research and our consulting to kind of build what we think is going to help push the space forward and help change the way people kind of like build protocols in the space as well. Jan, do you want to elaborate at all in terms of the labs work? Yeah, yeah. So I touch on two upcoming projects that we're really excited about.

um so astral port is is going to be an amm on uh or a dex basically on uh luna on the luna ecosystem and one we're super bullish on in the sense that uh you know um the amm design you'll have a few varieties which will accommodate for you know different types of pairs whether it's stable swap pairs or um you know variable price pairs so you have your standard xyk and then the invariant model as well. And then we think that the token design is really interesting as well. We're, you know, we've kind of taken what we've learned and from various protocols and tried to kind of innovate on that where, you know, our goal is to really have, and I think this kind of gets sometimes overlooked is you want your, the customers and the users of the protocol to

also be the token holders. And so oftentimes there's a kind of, I guess, a delineation there where some people are just holding it passively and hoping for upside as fees accrue. And then you have the users that participate and use a protocol, but don't really have any incentive to hold the token. And so we think we're looking to bridge that gap. And we think that the design we're putting forward

should really help with that. So we're excited for that launch. And then, so that'll be in November. And then in December, we'll have Mars that's launching. It's like a best-in-class kind of money market protocol. And so we think that that's one of the primitives that's missing from that ecosystem. And so we expect a lot to be built on that. And just by nature of kind of how the Tera ecosystem works and how aligned everyone is,

there's a lot of collaboration and, you know, a lot of teams work together on some of these designs, even though they're kind of separate protocols. The understanding is that, you know, your leverage is kind of like building Legos. So you'll be able to leverage what exists to help supplement what you're building. And so I think that kind of collaboration, you don't necessarily see it as much in other communities. And so we're really excited to watch that grow. And so, yeah, those are two we're incubating now. But, you know, there's a rather those are the two that I'm just going to mention now as the ones that are launching most recently.

But, yeah, the team's certainly hard at work with several others as well. So I am going to ask this cautiously. Why Terra versus Ethereum, Solana, Binance Smart Chain, or many of the other platforms that you could go build on? Sorry, it literally cut out just as you asked that for me. I said, why Terra versus Solana, Ethereum, Binance Smart Chain, or any of the other platforms you can build on? That's a great question. We've always been interested in stablecoins. Even ranging back from Maker was one of the first projects we looked at. We thought the design of DAI was really innovative. The need for stablecoins is clear. There's a massive market for it. Now, over time, you've seen iterations of how they work or how they can be designed. Some

some try and fail. We spent some time trying to work on ESD. And so we've looked through a lot of these models. And I think a decentralized stablecoin is incredibly valuable. And so you have the USDCs and USDTs of the world that work really well, but they do have issues in terms of potential decentralization down the road. And so we think that you have a world where both can coexist and people can kind of pick and choose and for the you know the algorithmic stable coins the the difficulty is always how do you it's it's it's tough to make sure that it's fully collateralized while also incentivizing some some form of demand or some form of growth basically you you often have to pick and choose and that that's what you've often seen with the algo

stables where um you know you can send incentivized growth but then they're effectively under collateralized or you can have them fully collateralized but then it's difficult to incentivized growth. Here you have this combination of an algorithmic stable coin that's built on top of a layer one, which is Luna. And now the demand and the utility comes from all the protocols that are built on top. So we think the design is really innovative there. We like the value of mechanics as well. And so we think that this kind of integration of an algo stable within a layer one is a very unique um design that that doesn't really exist anywhere else and and you know by virtue of that and and just our interest in in creating or contributing towards

some uh large algorithmic stablecoin um we think that you know there's a lot really happening there we're also just big fans of doe and kind of terraform labs and a lot of the other teams building on it as well um it's a community that that's you know really uh inviting and so it's basically a combination of things that's basically what piqued our interest initially and got us involved and then over time the decision to really allocate a lot of the the resources from our labs division into that was just a function of kind of a lot of the other um things that you wouldn't really know until you met the team that met the team met the teams and met the community and kind of interacted with them and they'll talk a little bit about

well one thing i'll say there too is uh you know maybe a little bit about athlete but we also are building something on Solana and we are exploring other layer twos too. One thing that we found, you know, to kind of piggyback off what Jan was saying, when we started building these protocols, we realized just how much more kind of like insights we gained onto the layer ones that we started being bullish on, right? So, you know, our venture fund holds Solana, but right now we want to, you know, be building on it as well. So we can kind of learn the ins and outs, the pain points uh the benefits etc so um for us we're kind of building uh across the ecosystem tara is just like the first one that we're launching protocols in makes sense talk to me about the update uh to

the research business i know that you guys were launching a brand new kind of research offering you're going to be increasing prices there's a whole bunch of stuff going on there just explain what's happening yeah yeah so this is um you know something that our team's been working on uh basically since january february of this year um you know shout out to you know the whole research team, but as well as, uh, you know, our lead designers, Max, Nate, Abe, and at a marketing call. And basically what we, you know, thought from first principles early this year was just like, what does the best research platform in crypto look like? We already knew what we, you know, we had, um, you know, what we think is like the best content by far. Um, we just wanted to

know, uh, you know, exactly what kind of tools, data products, um, that we would want to have as investors in this space. And obviously we're very crypto native, you know, we've been in this space for a few years now, but, you know, just as, you know, since 2018, we have basically been 24-7 crypto. Because of that, I think it gives us a really good edge of understanding exactly what clients want. So for example, you know, we've kind of redefined our products and, you know, like you said, our prices are doubling next week, but, you know, I don't know when this pod goes out, but basically if you subscribe before November 2nd, you can lock in your prices for a year right now. And, you know, the two main products that we have are Insights and Pro.

pro used to be called institutional insights um is kind of uh you know the go-to crypto and kind of like really have a keep a good tab on the space whereas pro gives you everything um insights uh you know some of our favorite you know some of the popular products that um you know we know clients really like are you know we we have this one uh we have this one newsletter called weekly yield strats um and basically every week we have one of uh one of our analyst um you know funny story i actually hired this guy on twitter based off his dgen score he was like had one of the highest dgen scores ever never saw his resume or anything like that just knew that he was a huge dgen and basically every week he sends uh across

a variety of different farms based on stable assets volatile assets on different uh you know on different chains as well and uh shows our members how to earn yield and obviously um you we have fat disclaimers and everything like that on there but um this has become like a huge hit within our uh you know without within our insights here uh another product that we just recently launched um called dao digest that's led by one of our analysts there and basically um you know now governance is becoming uh you know front and center for a lot of these protocols uh actually keeping up with these community forums is very hard because of how many uh you know gauss people are a part of so what we do is we basically uh look at the biggest governance proposals every

week, and then highlight it for our members. And also say, you know, one, obviously, you know, the timing and what it means, but also what could happen to that protocol, you know, in the weeks or months following it. Both of those are just two examples of kind of like, you know, newsletters and kind of like reports that our members get both on the Insights and Pro tier. But obviously, Pro is well known for, you know, our deep dive research reports. And then we have analyst calls, which we converted to office hours where basically every week we hop on with our institutional clients and it's just kind of like a Q&A. And that's been a lot of fun, honestly. I honestly have been spending a lot of time just kind of like doing the tedious stuff at Delphi. So I learned

most of what I know about crypto nowadays just listening in on those calls. So for either one of you, talk a little bit about where the alpha in the market exists. I think two years ago, alpha was very different than what it is today there's a lot of that are showing up they have a lot of money there's a lot of rich people from the legacy world all showing up saying hey it looks like there's asymmetry or high yield here how do i play what ends up getting commoditized in the market and where does alpha continue to kind of persist as you guys look forward over the next let's say two to five years yeah that's a great question um so i guess there's a few pockets um then it kind of depends on what you end up doing so on the venture side you know the some of the

office just basically um being the biggest value add investor you can be and that's how you'll get into a lot of these deals so um right now you know like you mentioned capital so abundant that they got these teams that are raising um they don't need pure money like they can get money from anywhere it's it's more so what else can you really offer so i'd say on the venture side it's really being a value-add investor and and that way you know you get a reputation for it and um it kind of improves your deal flow and just your ability to get into these deals um on the secondary market side there's a few things so if you're like a pure trader then you it's it's kind of trying to get ahead of some of these narratives where often you'll have you know

even throughout a bull market you'll have different narratives that that lead to kind of rotations from one sector to another and so if you're like you know just general market um alpha in that sense it would be just trying to get ahead of certain narratives and then you don't necessarily need to pick winners per se but but um you can kind of you know uh rising tide lifts all boats type situation um and then realistically if you're not purely trying to get ahead of narratives it's it's looking for dislocations or really kind of digging through what projects are doing so now there's so much data available and and um there's so much kind of data to sift through that you can really look for metrics of adoption or growth or kind of like dislocations in the

market um there's also because of the the massive interoperability that exists across a lot of these protocols where they're you know working together to where one of them specializes in one area and can can serve as a backbone for a project in another one looking at kind of a lot of the across protocol interactions and then seeing, all right, assuming this trend plays out and certain kind of, yeah, assuming this trend plays out, what does that mean? Where does the value accrue? How does that flow through to all the protocols involved? So I think some of the trend stuff is obviously really hard. Distant one is really looking through data and seeing where there's growth adoption and then kind of dislocation between what price is representing

and what the fundamental growth represents. And then when you guys start to think about how you're going to continue to invest, obviously the pool of capital you're investing in has grown over time. Does that change anything you all are doing? Or is it pretty much just more of the same exact strategy? To an extent, it's more of the same exact strategy.

I think because of just the size, we end up having to have... So our bread and butter was always working. because so like our early picks were effectively venture picks like you know back then they were just liquid trading and so you would just accumulate a position on the secondary markets early on that's not as prevalent now in terms of getting in really early on since a lot of these protocols are launching at at valuations that were too low before or rather are a lot higher than what we saw before so we continue to you know execute on the venture strategy and

really try and scale that up and you know um now that we've grown the team a bit we can um we're going across different sectors whereas before you know early on it was mostly defy now we're spending a lot of time on the gaming side uh web3 and kind of nft infrastructure as well so we're able to kind of do a lot more of what we were doing in that sense but we've also we've also had to take somewhat of a secondary market strategy as well now that the fund has gotten to the size it has. So, you know, we're not traders by nature and that's not where we think we have an edge. So we don't necessarily do that as much, but it's something we have to be aware of now that the fund's gotten bigger. But for the most part, we're looking to try and

continue doing as much of what we were doing before and really trying to work with these teams early on and invest on the primary market side. Neil, take us home. What's your final pitch For people who are interested in the research, they want to learn more about what's going on in the industry or where there's potential opportunity from an investment standpoint. What's the pitch for them to go subscribing to research? Yeah, definitely. I mean, I think, you know, now that our team is, you know, 69 people, one thing that has become, you know, a fact to us is just that there's no team big enough in crypto to keep up with everything going on. is just impossible um so you know what our team really tries to do and serve as a product because you know you got to remember research power is both our consulting labs arm as well as our ventures arm so we're literally users of our own product so um you know we want to make sure that

it's like the best it can be um you know one thing that we really try and do is build that conviction right so um you know in a bull market uh you know anyone can kind of you know make money in crypto it's, it's a lot easier. What we try and do is build conviction in positions that we think, um, you know, some people may sell for a 10 or 20 X and, you know, you can actually hold for that thousand X. Um, and, you know, I think we've done a really good job of that, but it's something that, uh, you know, we focus and spend a lot of time thinking of how to constantly add tools, data products, et cetera. Um, so I think, uh, you know, what, while we're really excited about, you know, how far Delphi has come, um, you know, what I really want to get on the pod to tell

everyone now is like um you know we're still on the ground floor uh you know with this new platform that we just launched uh you know depending on when everyone's listening to this this week um and price is going up next uh you know next week um we're really going to be hitting it hard and uh i think um there's a lot of good stuff in store just from what the research team's working on as well as our data engineers i love it where can we send people to find you both on the internet yeah so uh my my twitter is just at anil delphi um and then obviously the delphi Twitter is just at Delphi underscore digital. And Jan, I think you're at Jan Lieberman, right? Yep. I highly suggest everyone go follow you guys on Twitter, but more importantly,

go subscribe to the research. I read each one that comes out. And if you guys weren't here, I would say nice things. If you're here, I won't be too nice, but you guys know what you're talking about. So I appreciate all the hard work you guys are doing. I think there's a lot of people around the industry that look to you all for insights, queue up the great work, and we will definitely to do this again in the future. Yeah. Thanks for the time, Tom. Appreciate that. Thank you very much.