The Pomp Podcast - #752 How British Businesses Are Adopting Bitcoin w/ Ryan Moore

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Ryan Moore is the Chief Executive Officer at Mode. They're a publicly listed UK business. They've got Bitcoin on their balance sheet, and they're helping consumers get into Bitcoin, everything from simply buying and holding all the way to developing payroll services. I really enjoyed this conversation with Ryan, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. First up is Mode.

Starting point is 00:00:35 UK Bitcoin investors, listen up. Mode is an app that allows you to buy, earn, and grow Bitcoin effortlessly. Not only is it an easy and safe way to buy and hold Bitcoin, Mode also allows you to pay and receive up to 10% Bitcoin cash back for free from its growing list of online partner brands. For a limited period of time, Mode is offering 0% trading fees on all Bitcoin buys, and sells. That's right. You can buy and sell Bitcoin and pay no trading fees. The offer ends at the end of this year, so hurry up and download the app now. I have to say, personally, I think

Starting point is 00:01:08 the company behind this app is very, very impressive. They're an FCA registered. They're listed on a public exchange in both the LSE and the OTCQB market here in the US. They choose to hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet. Big deal. They were the first UK-based company publicly traded to hold Bitcoin on their balance sheet. And they are also piloting a Bitcoin payroll product to pay UK employees in Bitcoin. So if you're in the UK, I recommend you go check out Mode right now. Their app's available in the App Store and the Google Play Store. You can download the app now and start buying Bitcoin with 0% trading fees today. If you're not in the UK, go check them out on the public stock exchange as well. Next up is MyBookie. Cryptocurrency is

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Starting point is 00:03:18 that you have to offer. All right, let's get in this episode. I hope you guys enjoy this one. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Ryan, how are you? Great, Anthony. How are you doing?

Starting point is 00:03:49 I'm doing fantastic. Dude, I'm super excited to talk. Two things right out of the gate. You guys are a publicly traded business. How has that been? It's been good. I mean, you know, we went public on the London Stock Exchange back in October of 2020. And it's been a real positive for us, especially, you know, continuing to bring transparency and kind of credibility into kind of consumer-facing crypto businesses. So we've seen it as an important positive for us going forward. Okay. And now talk to us about the breakdown of your user base. I know you guys are coming to

Starting point is 00:04:22 the US now, right? And kind of making a big push into the US, but where are most of your users today? Well, I would say we're not necessarily coming into the US right now. We're very focused on the UK market as we speak. So we've focused on the UK market specifically for a couple of reasons. One, this is where we've got the regulation. We've taken a very kind of regulatory first standpoint around Bitcoin to bring that trusted source into it. And so right now, we're really focused on UK. We're focused on consumers within the UK, meeting them where they are on their crypto Bitcoin journey, working with merchants to find different ways to entice consumers in on the Bitcoin journey as well. So that's where we're really focused right now,

Starting point is 00:05:00 specifically in the UK. Got it. And what do you think is the big difference in the consumer behaviors, the demographics, anything that you see in the user behavior between the UK and maybe some other regions in the world? Are there specific things that you think are different? Or is it no, these are retail or kind of consumer, you know, folks that are looking to buy Bitcoin, and you guys are giving them products and services to access it? Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of similarities, especially when you look at the UK and the US consumer. I would say there's there's some, there's some a little bit more progress on some of the UK consumers, when you look at the majority of the portfolio that sits, the majority of their portfolio that they already

Starting point is 00:05:36 have within Bitcoin. And then, you know, you look at kind of the net worth investment, the UK is pretty happy with well over 3% of their net worth sitting in Bitcoin. And we have a lot of follow on buys in the UK as well. So I would say the UK market, the typical retail consumer here is a little bit more advanced in the US, but we're seeing those numbers start to mesh together pretty well at the same time and come together. Got it. And now one of the things that you guys offer that I thought was really fascinating is you have this 10% Bitcoin cash back from a growing list of online partners. And when you think about this first, talk about like, what is this 10% Bitcoin back? And then talk about kind of how you guys select online partners to work with on that.

Starting point is 00:06:26 Yeah, so we're doing it a couple of different ways. We've been very focused. There's a couple of things we have. We have Bitcoin, Bitcoin wallet, buy, sell, trade, hold it. But we're also looking for ways that we can go right to people where they are on their journey. And one of the best ways you can do that is offer Bitcoin basically for free and risk free. Right. So what we've done is we've built our own payment system and we have these direct relationships with various merchants. We also have an affiliate program that we're in the midst of launching. But when we own that payment rail, we we've found that Bitcoin cashback is a great loyalty program to entice consumers. Right. These consume these merchants are looking. How do we attract the Gen Z's, the millennials? How do we bring more of their business here? And the hook of Bitcoin cashback is is prominent. It's working well. And so when we think about the 10 percent that we're offering with some of these on a first time, You know, the merchants are excited about this. This is something that they're willing to put money into because they see the benefit of the Gen Z millennials specifically wanting to earn Bitcoin cash back through their loyalty programs. Got it. And then when you think about this type of action, I know that you guys have Bitcoin on your balance sheet.

Starting point is 00:07:42 Is the Bitcoin on your balance sheet because you need Bitcoin to participate and kind of support this? Or do you have Bitcoin on the balance sheet for, you know, balance sheet protection or inflation kind of hedging? Like, how do you think about the Bitcoin on the balance sheet? Yeah, I mean, it was it was a strategic investment for us from a treasury standpoint. Right. We were the first public company in the UK to put Bitcoin into our treasury. And, you know, it was it was it was the board sitting around going, OK, we've just raised this cash. We don't need all of it right now for operations. So what where are we going to find the best return?

Starting point is 00:08:15 And, you know, obviously, we're very into Bitcoin and we believe in the in the trajectory of it. But it it was a no brainer for us. And, you know, Bitcoin, Bitcoin is continuing to get de-risked, especially when you look at these corporations that are investing into it. You know, these pension funds coming in. So it just really has become a no brainer for for us from a treasury investment standpoint. So, you know, yeah, we use Bitcoin within our ecosystem, but it's more importantly, it's it's us trying to figure out how we're going to get the best return on our treasury cash. Got it. And what has been the response from shareholders or other public market participants? Have you seen fast followers or are you guys kind of out there on an island in doing this so far?

Starting point is 00:08:55 Yeah, I mean, I think we're still one of the very few in the UK that's done it. I mean, you know, we've seen the big headlines of Square and Tesla in the US, obviously MicroStrategy. But, you know, I think I think every CFO out there is now has to consider Bitcoin as a as a treasury investment. And I think that, you know, we feel that it's going to continue to to be adopted because where else can you invest in such a store of value like Bitcoin and what way it's performed over the last decade? You know, you've got to have some exposure there. So it's definitely a competitive advantage for us. And I think our investors have been happy with that because of because of that advantage. Got it. And then in terms of thinking about the Bitcoin market itself, we've seen countries like El Salvador, literally the president claims that he's on his phone buying the dip and then tweeting about it and kind of, you know, really kind of, I think, not what people would expect the nation state to do. do you guys think about uh buying more on dips like how do you think about the treasury position

Starting point is 00:09:58 is it just a hey we bought it we're going to hold it for a long period of time and every quarter we add to more based on a certain percentage like how do you just think about growing it selling it trading whatever yeah we we don't look at it on a kind of a short-term trade we definitely look at it as a as a long-term investment um and so yeah we we've we've bought and sold at different times Uh, but at the end of the day, we've continued to maintain exposure in our treasury to it. Um, and so that's, that's, uh, yeah, I think we have to take that long-term view. Obviously we have a lot of reasons to take the long-term view. Um, but I think from a corporate, uh, strategy perspective, being a public company, taking

Starting point is 00:10:34 that long-term view is, is the, is the diligent thing to do as well. Got it. And then on top of this, uh, what have you seen in terms of your employees? I know that, uh, you guys are working on like a payroll product, uh, to allow people to get paid in Bitcoin. Do you already pay any of the employees in Bitcoin or is this something that you guys are working on? Where are you in that journey? Well, I know you're a big proponent of pay me in Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:10:56 And so I love it. And, you know, basically last year, our employers were like, let's get paid in Bitcoin. Right. And we're like, yeah, yeah, we can do this. Let's do this. Why are we not doing this already? We kind of looked at ourselves like, wow, come on, get with it. So a good portion of our company gets paid in Bitcoin. And then we so we we trialed it with ourselves. We had great uptake within our own employees.

Starting point is 00:11:19 They're happy with it. We worked out through the processes of how it works. And yeah, we just recently announced a pilot with a company called Payescape, a payroll company here in the UK. And we're going to be piloting with their company over the coming months. And so it's created a tremendous amount of interest as far as, you know, how do these other payroll companies get engaged? They're getting asked for it.

Starting point is 00:11:42 And, you know, we've got the kind of mechanisms to do it. And, you know, I think more importantly than just having that product out there, what, you know, what it's really doing is it gives another way for people to get involved in Bitcoin in kind of a dollar cost average way. You know, these people might not be the most savvy traders or know everything about Bitcoin, but they're willing to risk a couple of points of their monthly paycheck and see what it does within this investment. And I think that's the most brilliant thing. It's like, how do we continue to create products that can bring people into the space? And be okay with where they are on their journey, but then continue to educate them with what else they can do to store their value and earn wealth around Bitcoin. Yeah. Joe and John, what questions do you guys have? Hey, Ryan. My question would be just around your Bitcoin rewards product. How does that work?

Starting point is 00:12:29 So basically, we have direct merchant relationships that accept our payments. So we have our QR code based open banking system that we we actually compete against Visa MasterCard. Right. It's an alternative to credit card payments and it's completely off the credit card payment rails. And I bring that up because what it allows us to do for these merchants is we can immediately slash their interchange fees. We can instantaneously give them their funds once once the purchase is made. They don't have to wait 30, 60, 90 days like you would. And what we've what we've done is we've we've attached the loyalty program, a Bitcoin cashback to that, because you've got to find a way to incentivize consumers to do this. Merchants, it's a no brainer. Right. It takes their costs down. But, you know, habitual buying habits.

Starting point is 00:13:20 We all just use our Apple pay that's tied to Visa or MasterCard or PayPal that's tied to Visa or MasterCard or we put the credit card number in directly. So we're really trying to change the consumer behavior. And when you tie that in with Bitcoin cashback, it becomes something that consumers are like, OK, I'm interested in this. And so when we created the product, this is something, again, that merchants can fund. They put money into loyalty programs. They put money into cashback already. So as long as we're bringing the consumers to them, the customers to them, then they're

Starting point is 00:13:53 willing to pay for this. So that hook is working. And that's been really interesting to see since we launched this just a couple of months ago. We thought it was going to work. We didn't know. But the people that know nothing about Mode or know nothing about paying with Mode, they click on us, they see that Bitcoin cashback, and they immediately come onto our app and get access to that Bitcoin cashback that they just earned. So it's a tremendous product. And we're really looking to continue to push this directly with merchants in the UK through their e-commerce sites.

Starting point is 00:14:25 And it's been a really exciting product for us in the early stages. Gotcha. John, what do you got? Yeah. Ryan, nice to meet you. Thanks for doing this. Great to meet you. So you guys have really grown rapidly, it looks like, in the last year or two. Can you just talk about what's been the most fun for you? What have you enjoyed working on in the last two years? Well, I think, you know, we've been building for the last year and a half, right?

Starting point is 00:14:49 We were basically a Bitcoin wallet when we IPO'd this in October. But, you know, we had the idea of how do you create these services around to create these new ways for people to engage into Bitcoin and our payments product. It took us most of last year to build that out. And we launched that in October. And so, you know, now we're to the point where we've got kind of the products and how how we're bringing all those intersections together. You know, payments, which is a pretty traditional business, bringing that together with Bitcoin, which is kind of a newer wave. And, you know, creating products at that intersection is a lot of fun. Right. We're not just worried about, you know, how are we going to put a bunch more altcoins onto our wallet so we can drive more volume or more transaction fees. Like we're really getting into the crust of valuable business opportunities and value propositions that both merchants and customers can find value in.

Starting point is 00:15:43 And I think that's the most exciting thing. And as we look at this, now that we've got these products, building is exciting in itself. But now that we've got across the goal line, we've got these products here. I'm really excited about just the growth and really bringing in a mass adoption of customers into it so that we can really trial this, get people using it and continue to improve it. And I think that's the most exciting thing about it. Right. What's been the biggest surprise to you over the last 18 months? Right. Obviously, we've seen all the in the United States, the undisciplined monetary fiscal policy. European countries haven't been much better.

Starting point is 00:16:13 but in terms of what the users have done, signups, Bitcoin, like what did we look back over the last 18 months? What's been the most surprising thing? Well, I think I, maybe not the most surprising thing. I guess it's, it's, it's the, what I'm most excited about is, is just the adoption that we're seeing across Bitcoin. Because I think it's continuing to force the, the conversation of, okay, how do we really take the Bitcoin capitalization from a trillion to 5 trillion? You know, how do we really make that next exponential growth? And if you think about what's happened in these last 18 months, the cornerstones of it are happening. You know, it's not just Bitcoin savvy people pushing this every day, every day. We're seeing the bigger

Starting point is 00:17:00 companies come into it. We're seeing pension funds start to pick this up. And I think the minute that happens, that really starts to change the conversation with the regulators. And how do we really drive the trust, the transparency, which both Bitcoin and regulators want? How do we drive that to be able to bring more and more people into the ecosystem of Bitcoin and drive it to that next capitalization? Yeah, it's fascinating to think about how quickly all of this is playing out. Do you all have all consumers or do you service any sort of business accounts as well? It's mostly consumers, if not all, right? Yeah, I would say we do a lot of consumers, but these direct merchant relationships we

Starting point is 00:17:40 have as well. So they have accounts with us and, you know, that gives us an opportunity for us to educate them with what they can do with the funds that they have sitting at mode, whether that's investing into Bitcoin or, you know, funding different loyalty programs. So, you know, we're naturally, you know, mostly in the consumer business at this point. But as we build out this merchant base, it's going to move us into a nice B2B business as well. Got it. Last question we ask everyone, you got an end of year Bitcoin price prediction? You're cheating because we're asking you late in the year. We only got three weeks left. We've

Starting point is 00:18:13 been asking people all summer long. I'm still very bullish. I would have told you early November, we were still going to be around 75,000. So I think I got to stick with that. Who knows what could happen in three weeks, but I think we're going to see a, I think we're going to see a great year of push here. So I'm going to go with 75,000. I'll be very bullish here. Yeah. I love it. I tend to think that at the end of the year, usually it's pretty good. People forget last year what happened, right? We were going like a thousand dollars at a time every day and we hit a 30 K. I think I'm the 30th or the 31st or whatever it was. So it was a, it was pretty fun last year. Hopefully we get the repeat this year.

Starting point is 00:18:48 Let's see those holiday and family buys. Especially for mode, right? If you're going to do it, go do it on mode. Exactly. Exactly. That's what we're about. Awesome, man. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or to find out more about the business? Yeah, modeapp.com. And yeah, come check us out. You can go right on to, if you're in the UK, you can go right onto the UK store and download our app. But we're also traded publicly on the Lend-A-Stock Exchange under Mode. And then we're publicly traded on the OTC markets in the US under MODGF as well. So a lot of ways to get engaged with us,

Starting point is 00:19:23 either as investors or as, uh, as a customer. So look forward to seeing you all here. Awesome, man. Right. Thank you so much for taking the time to do this. I know it's a little bit later there and, uh, my brother's appreciated as well. So we'll definitely have to keep doing this as you guys keep progressing. Yeah. I think most of my team's sitting in the pub right now. So go catch up with them. That's right. That's right. All right, buddy. Sounds good. Talk soon. All right. Thank you so much. All right. Bye.

The Pomp Podcast - #752 How British Businesses Are Adopting Bitcoin w/ Ryan Moore

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