The Pomp Podcast - #799 Bitcoin Debate!! w/ Darren Rovell

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Darren Rovell is a sports business reporter and senior executive producer for Action Network. He focuses on the business of sports betting, memorabilia, NFTs, and much more. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, why Darren hates Bitcoin, and what he thinks is wrong with the industry. We also cover tons of different stories about sports and the intersection with crypto and NFTs. I really enjoyed this conversation with Darren, and I respect the hell out of him. I hope that you enjoy this conversation as well. Before we get into this

Starting point is 00:00:40 episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is sponsored by the Bitcoin 2022 Conference. Bitcoin 2022 is the largest Bitcoin event in the world that takes place April 6th through the 9th in Miami Beach, Florida. All four days will be jam-packed with exclusive content, exciting announcements, and an incredible lineup of Bitcoin speakers, artists, and leaders. Day one is industry day for enterprising Bitcoiners who are looking to build a business or career within the ecosystem. Days two and three are general conference days featuring speakers like El Salvador president Nayib Bukele, CEOs like Michael Saylor, Elizabeth Stark, Jack Maulers, Adam Back, and hundreds more. The conference caps off on the

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Starting point is 00:03:22 Brave Wallet is different. Brave Wallet is the first secure wallet built natively in a Web3 crypto browser. No extension required. With Brave Wallet, you can buy, store, send, and swap assets, manage NFTs, even connect other wallets and dApps, all from the security of the best privacy browser on the market. Whether you're new to crypto or a seasoned pro, it's time to ditch those risky extensions. It's time to switch to Brave Wallet. Download Brave at brave.com slash Pomp and click the Wallet icon to get started. Again, go download Brave at brave.com slash Pomp and click the Wallet icon to get started. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You

Starting point is 00:04:06 should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. My friend, Darren Rovell, are you there? Yes, sir. Here he is. By the way, first question, you said you're coming into the lion's den. Virtual lion's dens don't exist. This is a friendly place. We are friends of Darren Rovell, Big fans. I got it again. I got to give you guys a lot of credit because, you know, I want to debate people in a passionate way. And I'm doing it tonight with someone on name, image and likeness, something that that Joe is certainly covered. And are you going to win? I don't know. I don't know if it's about I think we have won here.

Starting point is 00:04:58 And I'm not just, you know, being nice here. We've won by having a debate. We need to have passionate debates, especially two years into COVID where we're not seeing people in person. And it's we need to have these to, you know, get our energy going. You know, this is good for all of us. All right. Now, before we get started, I felt like we could I could like show you something to get our energy going to like really like, you know, get a good enjoying laugh. Get started with everything. now i've listened to your show for the last hour and a half and it's a lot of math and charts just a lot of math let me show you this math darren you ready let me just say just wait

Starting point is 00:05:38 don't drink anything keep your eyes glued to the screen it's my it's my dip it's the only Aaron said 99.99% of Americans could not beat him in a marathon. What was your marathon time? 432. I beat Tiki Barber by 30 seconds. I love that. I mean, that's an all-time line. i will also say um that that is the most watched 40 of all time 9.2 million views usain bolt is

Starting point is 00:06:15 number two that is true that is true i don't i don't i i don't care that it looks like i'm taking a dump all right let's talk let's talk about by the way our friend colton made that and i thought that was awesome that was great all right so what what's the issue with bitcoin you don't like Bitcoin. You like Bitcoin. I thought that you bought some Bitcoin. What's going on? No, no, no, no, no issue. It's not for me. All right. Now, if you don't think I deserve to talk about it or you think because it's not for me, because I looked into it and it wasn't enough, by the way, I am constantly looking into it. But for me, it's just so so the applauding of the yay, someone took Bitcoin, you know, instead of that drives me a little bit nuts.

Starting point is 00:06:59 Why? Why does that bother you? I don't know. When Joe says, what a legend! Like, he's not a legend! He just took it in Bitcoin! But why does that bother you? It bothers me because... Because he's investing? Miguel Beckham Jr., whether you agree with him, people defining him as a role model or not, is a role model. And he took all of his money in Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:07:24 And you got to realize there's a lot of 20 to 30 year olds that anecdotally have way too much in this. But he didn't. Hold on a second. But one key piece of this is because there's some detail here. By the way, the fact that you could go on your phone and your notes section and write up a bunch of stuff and it go viral across the Internet means you're a powerful, powerful man. I mean, that went that went pretty crazy. Yeah, it was bad math, but it still went crazy. So so here's the two things. Why bad math? Because of the taxes? No, no, no, hold on a second. So first is, it's only one of his revenue streams, right? And I guess, I don't know, you probably know better or Joe knows better than I do. My guess is that it's the smallest revenue stream that he has compared to marketing deals or other stuff. Is that fair? Hey, he got he listen, he got a signing bonus, which is not including that. But salary is based on, you know, weekly.

Starting point is 00:08:13 That's what you get. That's your check. So, yes, yes. But the thing is that when it's like what a legend, it makes people think that that's his main revenue stream. I'm not saying I'm not saying Odell is in trouble. I'm not saying Odell. Wait, let me clarify this real quick.

Starting point is 00:08:31 You what a legend. Darren, you left out the part where he got paid seven figures to do the deal. More than the entire Rams contract. That seems like a pretty important part to leave out. Is that, but is that, does that necessarily, like, again, I told you if Cash App paid me a million dollars, I'd say no. No, you said six figures. No, you wouldn't.

Starting point is 00:08:51 You said six figures. I would, if Cash App, make me the offer. If Cash App paid me a million, offered me a million dollars, I would say no to that. Why? because i don't i mean at least tied to bitcoin tied to bitcoin i don't believe in it right why wouldn't you just take the bitcoin and then just sell it for dollars because that's disingen... again i'm worried about the youth of america here i invest in mental health okay so and the fact

Starting point is 00:09:19 that cash wait did you just put yourself on silent while you were laughing no no but but what i want to call out is that Bitcoin is not real Bitcoin, right? Well, hold on a second. But you're advocating you're advocating for people instead of taking some of their salary in Bitcoin to take it in dollars, which is guaranteed to lose value, guaranteed to go down over the last two years. Bitcoin's up like three hundred and fifty percent, give or take. The U.S. dollar is down like a gazillion percent. Well, listen, I'd rather take inflation at seven percent than than than being in bitcoin like the whole thing against inflation is absurd the dollar is the most centralized most recognized you know you go you go nuts on el salvador you should google el salvador a little

Starting point is 00:10:06 bit more you should spend more time you should go to elsa have you gone to el salvador not yet i'm planning to you should because they need help because 70 of the country is revolting against Bitcoin and wants the dollar. No, no, no. Four million people got the app. Four million, more than 50 percent of the of the Salvadorians. I have Bitcoin than I have. I'm just I'm just saying that, like the bashing of the dollar, the whole dollar thing is like Bitcoin is not the replacement for the dollar. What percent? Nobody said it's been Bitcoin. It's not even on the same level. Like Bitcoin has no practicality as currency. And that's been proven Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. First of all, what percentage of your portfolio is in cash? 5%, 10%? What do you think?

Starting point is 00:10:57 In cash? Yeah, I would say about, I would say less than 5%. Okay. So same, right? Most people, that's true. Now, the reason why you don't hold cash is because you know, because you're intelligent, that the dollar continues to be devalued, right? And if you sit there and you take 7% inflation on the chin with majority of your portfolio, that'd be bad. I don't do it in cash because the bank is offering me nothing, right? And I feel like I can invest it. I'm actually not that worried every day. There's a lot of things I can worry about. I am actually not that worried about the devaluing dollar. I'm not. It's not a main concern. I am so happy I live in America and the Fed's going to raise rates. And you know what? If I make my

Starting point is 00:11:47 main motivation the inflationary value of the dollar, well, you know what? I live in America. Taxes suck. But the over talk about how the dollar is decreasing, it's the smallest of my problems. And I'm not going to let that change my motivation on how I invest. And I shouldn't, because it's relatively a small thing, especially when you're talking to people, and I'll let you talk, I promise, when you're talking to people about why does the Bitcoin play at all with the dollar when, now, OK, ETH, other stable coins, which I'm into, by the way. I, I, I'm not, I'm not invested in it, but other stable coins that front for cash.

Starting point is 00:12:33 Okay. Now let's talk about the dollar versus those stable coins. But to talk about the dollar against Bitcoin is purposely obfuscatory. Wait, okay. I got a question here. And this, this is in all sincerity, very serious. We only talk about Bitcoin specifically. We don't tell anyone to go buy any of these shit coins.

Starting point is 00:12:53 There's thousands of them, literally thousands of them that people could go buy and lose all of their money. We've never told anyone to go buy any of those. Specifically, we have only talked about Bitcoin as an investment to go purchase. No NFTs, no nothing. So in your mind, your job for a living is sports gambling. 95% of people lose money on sports gambling. It is essentially a way to funnel money from a consumer to the state via taxes. Do you not find that to be unethical or immoral at all that you promote that? when when when hang on one second when bitcoin has a long history of price appreciation from an investment it doesn't matter that doesn't matter at all so you're guaranteed to lose money in one history shows that you're guaranteed to make a profit in another while protecting you're not guaranteed to make a history your history does a five-year history in in the terms of trends or a 10-year history is ridiculous to talk about a guarantee okay so so so i mean that's

Starting point is 00:13:48 what you guys do all day. You do the math and the trends and the this and that, and nothing's a trend. Anyway, so let me talk about sports gambling. So sports gambling and the stock market are both more fair than Bitcoin. And I'll tell you why. Sports gambling, there is at the very least, at the very least, there is some information you can go on. I work at the Action Network. We specialize in that information. Will it definitely help you win? No. But you know that a player is out. You know that there's these trends. And by the way, the trends are 25 years. That's what we look at, a 25-year time horizon. And so in stocks, okay, whether you believe the market is fair or not, okay, and whether you think it's a fraud or not, it is loosely based

Starting point is 00:14:36 on the earnings of companies, how the sector is doing, and how the economy is doing. Bitcoin is based on zero okay time out time out hold on i got a question this is like me in class in the back i raised my hand ready go ahead go ahead sir let's let's look at let's look at stocks i want to compare stocks and bitcoin stocks i agree with you it's based on basically macro environment and then it's based on things around uh earnings revenue profitability revenue multiples etc right now what's a stock that you own like what's one of the bigger stocks that you own uh just probably probably i mean i own large buckets of stocks i don't but just i don't play around with ever sit let me give you this okay let me do this so at cnbc i had to get rid of my

Starting point is 00:15:24 individual movement of stocks okay as i was on the air you're not allowed to uh do anything with moving you can't disclose like the highest level of scrutiny ever since then i have a financial advisor we talk about what buckets we put it in i see what he does but i don't do individual stuff okay so like i'm not doing that every day like a lot of people all right so so nike i'm assuming is one of the some of that is based on the fact that like sports unlike sports gambling it's not a win or a loss there's not a direct corollary earnings come out so here's earnings come out someone beats earnings they go it doesn't beat the whisper number hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on hold on let's just take nike as an example if i asked you right now how much revenue

Starting point is 00:16:09 did nike do today nobody knows you don't know i don't know nobody knows that answer if i ask you how much revenue nike did last week nobody knows if i ask you how much profit nike made on that revenue today or last week nobody four times a year you know okay four times a year great and you right with bitcoin with bitcoin i can tell you every single minute in real time how much bitcoin's being created how many transactions there are what the network fees or the revenue for the network is i can tell you how many people are securing the network everything is fully transparent there is no product it's not a you're comparing something like nike that's a product bitcoin is a product no no bitcoin that's why you go first mover bitcoin's the first mover who cares

Starting point is 00:16:57 it's not a product no it is here's why because guess what when you yes when you go today and you go to starbucks right you go to starbucks you i take you as like a frappuccino guy so if you go to starbucks you order a frappuccino too many calories but you take you take your three i can't be having frappuccinos they're for kids you look like you're 19 so you're still good to go if you take out your credit card and you put it into the credit card machine you're using a product right you're using the visa network to process that transaction and use bitcoin hold on but if you were to pay in bitcoin you would use the bitcoin network the visa network and the bitcoin network the payment rails are both products can you pay in bitcoin at any starbucks in america

Starting point is 00:17:40 uh in certain places you can it depends on if they support it but but also it'd be like if starbucks said we don't accept mastercard but we accept visa right every every merchant gets their choice of what payments you're giving you're just giving me a hypothetical hold on it was a problem well hold on no no no because here's why in the last 24 hours i can prove to you on the blockchain there was 12.9 billion dollars of on-chain transaction volume that is not exchanges that's not trading that's not any of that stuff 12.9 billion dollars there was over 1 million active addresses the bitcoin network to do what to do what it doesn't matter because no it does matter that's where it does matter here's why because visa visa reports that they

Starting point is 00:18:28 had let's say 12 uh 12 trillion in uh annual trading volume or uh annual uh transaction volume last year for what we don't know they don't tell us for real for for goods and products maybe maybe maybe what else would it be money laundering we don't know the banks they say they have transaction volume what is it for i don't know they got mexican cartels laundering money through their like literally their the laundromat like that you don't know what the use cases are we we we need an hour but now let me i want to talk to you about banks all right let's go do you like banks or or uh you know bank listen i'm i'm a listen i'm a skeptical guy i don't you don't you think i take everything at its face i don't okay i'm a skeptical guy all right

Starting point is 00:19:14 that's fair do i think the banks do i do i do i think that but but my problem with you is you being two-faced and let me tell you okay so so so the banks are like you think the banks are like awful and and horrible right no i actually i think the bankers are the ones that are the bad people but go ahead okay so you do but there's a negative when when we think about pump and the banks there's a negative association you give me that yeah along with 95 of americans also think poorly of the bank okay so so that so it's like okay the banks are doing this they're rigging this they're doing that and then all of a sudden it's like goldman has now put all their efforts into bitcoin and you use that as like to embolden people now you've given the banks credibility

Starting point is 00:20:05 because they're in bitcoin you love it no i don't like the banks i still think the banks are stupid but they're capitulating they tried to fight it they tried to ignore it they said it was stupid they wrote their reports they banned their employees from buying it and selling it and trading it they did all everything they possibly could they pulled out the banker playbook and still you can't ignore the king because they still capitulate they eventually realize what the individuals think about this for a second there are people who sit inside of all these banks that give aid millions of dollars a year and their job is to figure out how to improve the financial system make more money for their bank and they got front run by a bunch of morons on the internet

Starting point is 00:20:45 the bitcoin plebs around the world millions and millions of people figured this shit out before they did they didn't get paid anything this entire system has been built by millions of volunteers around the world and those banks realize if they want to stand toe-to-toe with a decentralized network of bitcoin they will lose and so they have a choice either you capitulate you bend the knee and you finally say we're into bitcoin or you will be left in history books as being the moron who ran a bank and got disrupted by a bunch of people sitting in their parents' basement on the internet. And there's no bank executive that's going to sit over, see that disruption. Okay. But what percent of their overall investment does that match up to 1% or less than 1% of their

Starting point is 00:21:32 overall investment, which is the same percentage of people who are just taking a shot. Fidelity. You think that's a big one? Trillion dollar asset manager. The CEO's got a Bitcoin miner in her office. I don't care about this. I don't care about an anecdotal story. I want to know what percentage... They started an entire Fidelity digital assets. She literally says on conference calls, we have three main areas that are our core focuses over the next decade. One of them is crypto, right? These people... One of those is crypto, not Bitcoin. I think part of it too, though, just to interject for a second, is looking outside of the United States. We focus a lot on the United States because it's where we live, but our monetary system is very stable. We all have

Starting point is 00:22:13 access to bank accounts. We have no problem. We're not worried about our money being seized. We're not worried about the price of our coffee changing from the morning to the night. Like these are real problems that people face in other countries. So do you see Bitcoin as at least being applicable to people in countries that have hyperinflation or people that live under authoritarian regimes or something like that? I guess I'm not like ethnocentric. I mean, I understand what happens in, you know, in other countries. I just think that the argument, the argument is still that the American dollar is still the most centralized, most recognized, most lauded currency in the world. Okay. But, but nobody's disagreeing with that, but there's one key piece.

Starting point is 00:22:56 There's two things that people do with the dollar. They save it and they spend it. All right. The thing that most people in the Bitcoin community are starting with is they're simply saying the dollar is not a good savings tool the better savings technology is bitcoin forget spending for a second just say why why is the better savings technology bitcoin tell me because one is structurally inflationary the other is structurally deflationary and well that's a fact that's not up for debate the second thing is that when you look at the u.s dollar whether it's one percent inflation or seven percent on the official numbers they are going to guaranteed continue to devalue it the reason why you have five percent or less of your portfolio in cash as do i and most

Starting point is 00:23:45 other folks who we bring on this show is because we understand how money works we understand holding cash is not a smart investment decision but the bottom 45 percent of americans hold no investable assets they just hold cash they live paycheck to paycheck they just hold cash and that's what drives the wealth inequality gap is that rich people have assets that go up in value when there's inflation and 45 percent of americans don't have any investments so for the last two years they go to the same job getting paid an hourly wage they actually get paid less in purchasing power terms today than they did two years ago and they're literally worse off than they were two years ago and so that's okay i hope this story doesn't end this way but i worry

Starting point is 00:24:26 with Bitcoin investment. I worry most about the little guy. Okay. The little guy. Because I'm worried about, and this is not you, you didn't take their money and put it into Bitcoin. Your show did. But I would say that I'm worried about that because you talk about inflation like it's a disaster and inflation was the highest it's been in 40 years it is it is it speaks of volatility but but but but vol it's inflation this the scary thing about inflation is volatility i'm not in control it's it's going to go create and bitcoin is as volatile as it is yeah it's volatile to the upside it's volatile to the upside of course it's compounded annually for a decade the compound annual growth rate of again you're gonna go on a short time horizon but like remember

Starting point is 00:25:21 a decade let me give you this let me get i'm gonna ask you a question i'm gonna ask you a question all right ask me a question are you making fun of me right now i i think what percentage what what what percentage of people since what percentage of people are um uh are in bitcoin I'm thinking more than 50% of people are newly in Bitcoin over the last, more than 50% of people of accounts are newly in Bitcoin over the last six months. What do we know about accounts? False. Maybe over the last 18 months.

Starting point is 00:25:59 Maybe. It depends. I'd have to look at the numbers. December 2020. December 2020. Let's go a year. A year. For sure the last two years because a lot of people in 2020, 2021,

Starting point is 00:26:10 a lot of people came in. So they would come in at $14,000, $15,000, right? December 2020? Yeah, we're at $10,000 at the end of October, which means it's up 350% in like a year and a half. Okay, but the past does not command. This is my biggest problem. The past, you will fail this if you answer this.

Starting point is 00:26:34 The past, especially a short past, does not predict the future. I agree with that. Amazon is a great example of a disruptive technology that created disruptive products. No, no, no, they had products. Bitcoin's not a product. No, it is. But Amazon, the average inter-year drawdown is double digits, 30%. It dropped 90% at least once.

Starting point is 00:26:59 And it's been one of the best performing stocks over the last 20 years. Bitcoin. It dropped 90% over a year and a half or over a day. okay hold on a second bitcoin for example this uh over the last uh since inception has had multiple 80 percent drawdowns hundreds of percent upside etc it's a volatile asset in us dollar terms last year it drew down 20 six times six different times it drew down 50 one runtime it still finished the year up 65 percent in the last four years bitcoin has drawn down 50 percent four different times it still is up hundreds of percent over that time frame so you

Starting point is 00:27:46 need volatility to get upside just as much as volatility hurts you on the downside it helps you if you're along the asset so if something's going to be volatile and you're holding it if it is volatile the upside you like the volatility the reason why you and i like inflation and this is just a hard truth of the world is if you're in assets you love inflation because it pushes your asset prices higher if you are in cash you hate inflation because it makes you poorer and that ultimately that divergence is where i think that the idea of bitcoin the the product of bitcoin provides an even playing field anyone in the world no matter where you come from what your education level is your wealth status who your parents are where you went to school who you know

Starting point is 00:28:28 none of that shit matters. You got an internet connection. You now can protect your purchasing power in a way that you've never been able to do that before. And there's a hundred plus million people. It's something that you can't use to purchase anything. There was $12.9 billion of transaction volume that happened last year. The Bitcoin market's bigger than the entire sports betting market. I think we're going down a rabbit hole now, but my general understanding, and I think we agree on both of these things between us and you, Darren, is that there are a lot of people in Bitcoin for the wrong reasons, right? They're, they're, in my opinion, there's, there's two separate classes of people that are here for the right reasons. And then people that are solely

Starting point is 00:29:02 here to make money and for a profit. And that's not always necessarily wrong, but there's certainly people that are promoting things and trying to get people to invest money that they cannot afford to lose for their personal gain. I think there's, isn't there's the, so when, when the only vet, I put this on Instagram yesterday at Derrick Revelle. If the only value of something is the value itself, it has no value. The talk, and this is my concern with NFTs too. Like in 1986, Fleer Michael Jordan rookie, right? It went up to 738,000.

Starting point is 00:29:40 There were two sales in January. It went all the way down to 300. Now, why did it stop at 300 and not go through the floor? Because at 300, someone said, you know what? It's nice enough that I like looking at it. My problem is, especially with these NFTs, and I know we're not talking about this, but my problem is that no one really, there's no product to like. And so there's not something to look at. There's no product to like. The NFTs is like, do you really think your board ape or your crypto punk is worth that? Or is it all about the money? And as someone who's in memorabilia and collectibles, when it's, yes, it can be about money.

Starting point is 00:30:18 I invest in memorabilia for money. But when it's 95% of the talk is about money, it's harder for people. It's easier for people to be in it for the wrong reasons and for it to be all about money. So I don't want to go, I don't want to go too far down the NFT route, because as I said, we don't, we don't promote this stuff on the show or do any of this stuff. But here's a good example, because I did a podcast with Gary Vee last night, the Joe Pomp show. And I think most people, you know, he gets a lot of jokes, right? Like he, it's Gary Vee, but he has this NFT. None of us own the NFT. So we're not speaking at a personal gain here. But one of the things that is interesting and contradicts your point a little bit, at least, and I'm curious your opinion, is as part of his token, you get the ability to go to his conference, right? So for three years, the tokens came out, there were $2,000 each, depending on whatever the price of ETH was at the time. And you got tickets for three years, plus whatever additional benefits he gives to those token holders. That's utility. Does that count, in your opinion, as added value to the NFTs?

Starting point is 00:31:15 I believe in utility. I think the reason why Top Shot goes down is because there's not any real utility. Yes, Gary was smart. Gary ties it to something. There's actual utility. The reason why there's a difference between Bored Apes and CryptoPunks, even though CryptoPunks were given credit as the OG, is because Bored Apes, you actually own the IP. There's utility there. So I do believe in real utility tied to it. And that's why I'm like, well, isn't it important that Bitcoin has real utility? And again, maybe I haven't listened to enough pomp shows, but I don't really see the real utility. In fact, I feel like it's going backwards. We're talking about it as a replacement for cash or alongside cash or along the dollar. That's why I should invest in it.

Starting point is 00:32:08 And I don't see, I see ETH. I see Luna. Well, Bitcoin is certainly a store of value right now. And we believe that it'll make its way to a medium of exchange. It obviously has to get less volatile to do that. Obviously, you don't want things- People who are in since November are down 50%.

Starting point is 00:32:24 That's their store of value. Okay, so it's less than 50. Yeah, and their value has appreciated. I think the value- Yeah, that's tricky. It's less than 50 because it went up today a little bit, but okay. I think in context, part of your problem is that people are very loud about these things,

Starting point is 00:32:41 right? And uneducated people lose money. But ultimately, one of the challenging things is, in my opinion, you're ushering in a completely new technology, right? And you're trying to get people around the globe to adopt this. So there is no marketing team. There's no money being spent to do these certain things. There's no Bitcoin team that's going out and doing this. So the only way that this can happen, and it has happened over the last decade, is individuals promoting this right more people joining the network more people starting up nodes more people mining doing all these certain things so i think that's an important part but i think it's unfair to say that it's not valuable right because the the network itself is valuable right there are there

Starting point is 00:33:15 are transactions happening not only that but it's programmatic supply it's constrained unlike the u.s dollar which has they can print 40 of the last dollars were created in the last 18 to 24 months right so i'm not saying that it applies everywhere in the world and it is the best thing ever but ultimately it can help a lot of people and i think it's it's uh it's naive to just look past the fact that there are people in other circumstances that can really benefit from it all right hold on hold on hold on because darren you you got me and joe here and you know we're like destroying you in this debate but we have our third brother john here your own referee management can change the rules john hasn't said anything the entire time john is the nicest

Starting point is 00:33:58 hasn't i thought he had laryngitis no no darren i got i got one thing just to ask you is i respect the hell out of you you're very smart very uh you have a ton of dedication to your craft i really appreciate that my only question to you is think about how you say you care about the little person and the youth but then promote sports betting which i think was it 95 of people lose money in and i don't think it's a good long-term savings tool investing it's it's gambling but just think about that. That's one of the reasons I, okay. So I'll address it one more time. So I am also a, I spend hundreds of hours every year in mental health. That is my side,

Starting point is 00:34:37 my side thing. So people like, how can you do mental health? When at the same time you could do gambling. And that's, that's why when I, that's why I promote my bankroll. I promote when I lose, I talk about when I lose, I talk, you know, so I try to do the best I can. I do love sports gambling and I realize it's negatives and it's downfalls. But like, I also realized from a mental health standpoint, like it's not, it's not all about like, are we making money? Like the mental health standpoint of looking at your Bitcoin, whether it goes up or

Starting point is 00:35:10 down is horrible. There are people who are, even if it goes up, if your Bitcoin goes up $500, I would say the way people are looking at their Bitcoin now, it's actually horrible for your mental health. And again, that's an individual decision. But the way people open their Coinbase or whatever they're looking at, their gem, whatever they're looking at, OK, looking at it the way that they look at it and their mental health is being determined by the up and down more than it's ever been more. They did not do this with stocks. Most people do not do this with stocks, even with the advent of Robinhood, the Coinbase and especially Bitcoin, I think because of the youth and the amount and the percentage that they're putting into it um i i

Starting point is 00:35:52 think i think there's there whether it's a positive or negative i think you guys to turn it back on you and yes i accept responsibility for gambling it's why i say bankroll it's why i say i lost every bet today it's why i lost 2500 right you know that but i think you guys too should be like you know uh there is some sort of responsibility about what you're putting in and how much you're checking. I mean, I think with, with everything that's gone down with COVID, it's been, it's been pretty horrible not to have human interaction. And I think Bitcoin has benefited from everyone needing to, you know, juice themselves up and have their adrenaline every day. And I think there's a clock to that. So, so we're going to wrap up here in a second, but I, I, Oh, we can't do this until

Starting point is 00:36:34 seven o'clock. Listen, if you just want to get punched in the face verbally, I think this is important because we've gone back and forth on sports betting. And I don't think any of us think sports betting should be illegal actually quite the contrary i think it should be legalized and i think people should be able to make their own decisions educated and i think it's the exact same thing when it comes to savings technology there should be education around it and then people can make their own decisions if you've watched the show and i know you have before and people that are watching now can attest to this we always say the same thing only put in what you're willing to lose dollar cost average over time the same investing principles apply to this

Starting point is 00:37:04 it's just a new form of savings technology in our opinion right so i think it's more about education And I understand your point of frustration because there's a lot of scammers in crypto. There's a ton of people losing money and scamming people, and it's terrible. So there is certainly a mental health aspect to that. But I liken it to the same way of gambling, right? There just needs to be education about what the risks are, and people need to only bet or invest what they're willing to lose. Is it gambling or investing? Is Bitcoin investing?

Starting point is 00:37:31 Is it a currency saving? Is it investing? Because it can't be both. It can't be investing in a currency. Well, it can. it can it can there's an entire foreign currency market where people invest in currencies that's like a thing there's there's no avoiding looking at the price of bitcoin in my mind um especially how uh how much conviction i have with it but i normally look at it through the tools of financial

Starting point is 00:37:54 inclusion and the technology behind it and the people can help through that but yes there is no avoiding looking at the price of bitcoin all right listen i got one last thing ready i'll help you right now this is actually the nicest thing i can do if you go on twitter and go in your settings on your iphone you can turn on twitter tips and those tips people can send you bitcoin and i'm willing to bet if you do that and then you tweet out and say i just turned this on let me see how it works i bet you some people will send you some big i'll send you some bitcoin across twitter i'm not going to do that that would not be good well we appreciate you coming on darren you're the best this is where where should we send people to find your uh great sports takes

Starting point is 00:38:32 but bad bitcoin takes on the internet i'm actually ramping up my bad big bitcoin takes on my instagram stories uh come at me he sent people to instagram you were literally posting tulip farm pictures yesterday i was i was i was pretty good i like tulips i do like tulips more than bitcoin all right all right all right we appreciate you coming on all right thanks guys see you soon

The Pomp Podcast - #799 Bitcoin Debate!! w/ Darren Rovell

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