The Pomp Podcast - #803 How To Evaluate NFT Projects w/ Andrew Steinwold

Starting point is 00:00:00 What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Andrew Steinwald is the managing partner at Sperman, one of the leading NFT funds. He's an investor in OpenSea, Artblocks, and many, many other well-known projects in the industry. In this conversation, we talk about NFTs, investing, how you at home can evaluate specific projects, and how to think about NFTs versus NFT infrastructure. I really enjoyed this conversation with Andrew, and I hope you do as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Abra. Based in California

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Starting point is 00:02:14 public company to secure many of the top layer one protocols this quarter btcs just launched the beta version of a new digital asset analytics dashboard from across multiple exchanges the btcs data analytics dashboard lets you evaluate your entire portfolio's performance with plans to enable year-end reports and yield earning on your crypto by linking to btcs staking pools this groundbreaking dashboard is currently in beta mode test out the btcs data analytics dashboard now by visiting btcs.com again that's btcs.com go check it out anthony pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or

Starting point is 00:03:00 his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right. We're going to bring on Andrew Steinwald next. I think we've got him here. Andrew, how are you doing? Doing great. Awesome, man. I have one question to get started. Well, first of all, actually, before I ask you a question, congratulations. I know you just had a young baby. How old is the baby? Baby is seven weeks old now. All right. So you're like two weeks behind me or so. What's the biggest surprise you've had so far as a new dad? So I thought that you were able to actually still do some work when you're taking care of the baby.

Starting point is 00:03:43 you can do no work well when you're taking care of the baby it's two hands all like the full time and uh you literally have to pay full attention so for me that was by far the biggest uh shock you guys see this this is like dad talk right here you two might as well go outside that's a little dad talk for you all right now second question i have for you how the hell do i pronounce the name of this fun smirin is that how i say it that was close it's safirmion so jeez you said that shit like you were drinking some tea in london gonna just pitch somebody and say it again safirmion safirmion man so you really weren't that close super nice yeah that was nice of you to say i was close but for marion jesus christ

Starting point is 00:04:28 yeah it just it just how it looks safirmion it's basically the name of a hypothetical particle and the whole thought process behind the name was first of all i want to do something super weird let's go super weird because we're investing in a weird asset class, which was NFTs and still is NFTs. And the thought process was, okay, there's fermions, which are real particles and that makes up all matter. And there's the fermions, which is the, basically there's a theory called super symmetry that states that every physical particle has this invisible partner that we can't see or measure. And my thought process was, okay, cool. We're not investing in actual land or actual swords or whatever. We're investing in the hypothetical counterpart that we can't see

Starting point is 00:05:08 your measure and so it's supersymmetry states that every particle name with the s in front of it is a supersymmetric particle so fermion is this fermion a quark is a squark a lepton is a slept on and so on and so forth how the hell did you learn about this i i am into particles i'm not just google essentially yeah well is that is that is that what people like is there like a particle community that uh that you guys all get together and talk about this i wish no no it's just a lot of reddit a lot of youtube and google all right and then sorry to uh kind of sidetrack here for a second but these uh super symmetric particles that we can't see or measure is there any like indication that that's actually like a real thing or uh have they been confirmed in any way or is

Starting point is 00:05:52 this just a hype like literally a hypothetical like somebody one day was high and was like hey look at this great idea i have no so so before basically 2019 scientists were like okay we were pretty sure this exists what we we're not positive but the way the earth and the particles are situated. I don't really understand the science, but they're like, we're pretty sure that these exist. So I incorporated, launched the fund. It was September, 2019. And then in like sometime in 2020, there is a, you know, a kind of a paper that came out that was like, listen, we're not really sure supersymmetry is even a thing anymore. And I'm like, oh, great. I already named the firm that. So, so, you know, hopefully, hopefully it's a, it's a actual theory, but

Starting point is 00:06:28 as of now, it doesn't look that it doesn't look too promising. So people in the chat are already saying forget supersymmetry. We talk about super asymmetry around here i love it uh all right let's um let's jump into uh metaverse digital goods nfts etc uh you just raised 100 million dollar fund give or take uh backed by some of the biggest names in the industry and uh you're essentially saying listen not only is this stuff real but there are very material investment opportunities here talk us through a little bit as to like when somebody says to you like why are you excited about this space like what's kind of the thought process in terms of focusing here versus all the other things that you could go do?

Starting point is 00:07:09 Oh man. Okay. So I guess, first of all, if we all got together and we're some mad scientists and we're like, all right, we're going to design the most crazy, addictive, fun, exciting, engaging assets on earth. Those assets would be NFTs for sure. You know, these assets, they allow you to be social because you buy a board ape or something like that. You're part of the SportApe club. These assets allow you to display status. So instead of buying a Rolex, you're again, buying a CryptoPunk or something and changing your Twitter profile. These assets, you become attached emotionally to them because you change your Twitter avatar to it or your avatar and LinkedIn or whatever to that asset. And then you're like, okay, well, I can't sell it.

Starting point is 00:07:47 It's my identity. These assets are like, they have what I call like the human factor. And unlike crypto, which is mainly a game of economics and all the incentives are economic, NFTs have that human factor. And that drives a lot of the behaviors in the space and makes this speculation and the trading and the investing just to the nth degree. So that to me was just from a market standpoint, really, really exciting. And I think that NFTs going forward are just going to continue to be these kind of weird, diverse new markets that didn't actually exist before, and they're going to thrive. And again, it goes back to the human factor. So that's on that side. So on the side of looking at what these assets enable over the long term, well, really, and

Starting point is 00:08:30 this is going to sound sci-fi, but really these assets enable the metaverse to form because in actuality, I know Facebook and all these kind of companies are jumping into the metaverse, but in actuality, the metaverse just means the internet with ownership. And you can't have that without blockchain broadly, but also NFTs for all the digital goods and all the digital stuff that you're kind of acquiring. And so if you look at it from a market standpoint, super exciting. Then you kind of look at it from the metaverse standpoint. It's like, wait a second, these assets, NFTs, were the missing piece to the metaverse puzzle

Starting point is 00:09:00 for it to actually form and come to fruition. Because before, it's like we're living in this world of internet today where it's essentially communist in nature, where we're adding value to Facebook, we're adding value to Google, TikTok, et cetera. And we as users, we're adding the value, but we're getting nothing in return. And so what blockchain and NFTs really represent is that internet of ownership where people are like, okay, well, I'm going to contribute to this platform, to this game, to this art platform, whatever. And I'm going to get compensated for that fairly. Not, you know, we're not going to

Starting point is 00:09:28 get like super rich from our day-to-day online activities, but just being able to have part ownership or potential upside within these networks and products that we're using every day, that's super important. And so those are like the two kind of big, big buckets that got me really excited. But initially what got me excited was I was speaking to one individual, this is February of 2019 at NFT-NYC. It was the first NFT-NYC. And NFT-NYC is like the consensus of NFTs. So it's like, you know, big deal. And I spoke to this one guy, his name is Jin. He's an absolute legend. And he was like, listen, he said this in different terms, but he's like, listen, 4.6 billion internet users. That's a total addressable population here. If that were a

Starting point is 00:10:03 country, by far the world's largest country, these people are connected to a global, uncensorable 24-7 financial system, which is the crypto financial system, right? So the ease and the cost of doing business is like just zero comparatively, right? And anyone in China or the UK or America or Kenya, wherever can transact with each other instantaneously. So that's great. You're like, okay, biggest population, seamless financial rails. That's pretty exciting. But then you add an NFTs, which are just digital property rights. So anyone in the world can now own their digital stuff. That is crazy, right? And on top of that, these assets are user generated. So I think what blockchain did is it democratized the ability for people to create assets, especially like

Starting point is 00:10:45 tokens. That was a huge step up in the democratization of asset creation. But NFTs bring that down a hundred times because these assets are art, these assets are game items, these assets are pieces of virtual land, these assets are collectibles. They're really approachable for everyday people versus some esoteric blockchain with staking and transactions per second. It's like, that's too confusing. So those factors are really what makes this market the most exciting market in the world. And over the long tail, NFTs will become bigger than crypto. I know it sounds weird, but NFTs will become bigger than crypto. And what I like to say is crypto is the money of the metaverse, but NFTs are all the stuff in the metaverse. And so that's why I decided to

Starting point is 00:11:24 focus my full attention to this market back in 2019. Explain that comment about NFTs will be bigger than crypto. All right. So yeah, if you think about just real estate, every single asset in your house or, you know, the microphone, the computer, the everything. And then you add in, you know, I guess naming, you know, decentralized naming. So people are, the domain name system is huge. When you apply that to any sort of decentralized naming system, that's going to be even larger. So if I have like Andrew, but there's a protocol that we're all using called like Ethereum, for example, and I can get Andrew.eth and that is like the number one thing like

Starting point is 00:11:57 that is, that is going to be incredibly valuable. That's, that's an example of an NFT, but there's, there's just, there's a number of use cases for NFTs, because essentially NFTs are just a container that you can put anything inside. So today the NFT markets are mostly made up of these kind of like toy-like use cases, where again, it's like collectibles, it's gaming, it's virtual land, it's art. These are fun, really big markets. I mean, art is like a $65 billion a year market, collectibles, $100 billion a year, gaming, $300 billion a year. These are very large markets, very exciting, but they're still kind of smallish compared to the global markets. In the future, NFTs are going to go

Starting point is 00:12:31 into more regulated heavy duty use cases like property titles, insurance contracts, derivative contracts, IP, all these kind of, or music rights, et cetera, all these more intense use cases. And the market size is going to grow dramatically. And the reason being is because the efficiency gains you get from using a global, you know, uncensorable decentralized database for trading these assets or kind of showcasing that, okay, I do own this IP or yes, this contract was created on this date and is valid and very, very transparent, et cetera. That's going to happen. It's going to take time because those are the regulated markets. And the reason that these markets that we have today, these toy-like markets that NFTs went in there and thrive right now is

Starting point is 00:13:11 because these are unregulated, but NFTs are going to eventually completely take over every asset that has any form of value, whether it be digital value or physical value. And that is like the long-term vision. Got it. And so when you start to think about kind of how this is all playing out, There's various, I'll call them economies or platforms or areas that there's digital land, there's digital goods, there's, you know, all these kind of various assets being built within them. How much of this is like if I go to Decentraland or one of these kind of individual, I think of almost as like an economy, I'll be able to buy assets and then they'll just stay within that economy versus I'll be able to buy a building or a car or a sword or whatever. and I'll be actually able to bring them in between all these different economies. Like, how do you think about interoperability

Starting point is 00:14:00 between this versus no, ultimately there's going to almost be this like coalescing of liquidity around one or two of these virtual economies. And then that will be the winner. The other ones will kind of fall to the wayside. Yeah, what's great about, you know, being on this open database

Starting point is 00:14:13 is that they have the ability to be interoperable. The issue today, and keep in mind, like 99.99% of the population didn't know about NFTs or never heard about NFTs before January of last year, right? So a year ago, no one really heard of NFTs. So we're still super, super early in this. And so, yeah, I think that the issue today with interoperability is that there's not a great incentive.

Starting point is 00:14:34 So if I'm Decentraland, sure, I can go to the sandbox and have their assets be interoperable. But that takes a ton of time, dev resources, and just effort for making that happen. And the potential payout right now is minimal just because the user numbers are quite small. And so I think right now, that's the biggest issue in terms of interoperability. But what's great is that you have the ability, right? So that's really important. I think that over time, as the population get larger and more users come on board

Starting point is 00:14:59 and the user experience and et cetera gets easier, I think that then we'll see kind of, I don't want to say vampire attacks. I think there will be some type of vampire attacks where people are trying to maliciously kind of steal your audience. But I think that we're going to see a lot more like collaboration

Starting point is 00:15:12 where people are going to have some sort of agreement where they say, all right, all the swords in my world are, they work in your world and their axes in your world or something like that, right? And I think that's a super exciting prospect for individuals and gamers, especially because today, if you spend 20 bucks in Fortnite, you're not getting any of that. It's a sunk cost. You're not getting anything out of it. But in the future, if you're spending 20 bucks in Decentraland or whatever, ideally, you can use that same item in Sandbox and take it with you. So that's going to happen. It's going to take some time for sure, but that'll definitely happen. Got it. And then when you start to think about these assets, how many of these are just you buy an asset, you can use it from a utility perspective versus there's like capital appreciation versus there's yield generation, right? If you look at, I don't know, like the Axie infinities of the world, YGG, Salad Ventures, all these folks, they're very focused, it seems like on yield generation, but how much of what you guys are doing is capital appreciation, yield generation, or it's just utility? Yeah. Okay. So broadly, there's two types of NFTs, functional and non-functional. And we're definitely seeing kind of they merge together now. Whereas before it was collectible as an art,

Starting point is 00:16:15 we're on the non-functional side. It's like what you see is what you get. And they didn't really do much. It was just enjoy your art or enjoy your CryptoPunk. Now it's definitely changing where Bored Apes, for example, or other collectible assets, they give some sort of functionality, like access to private Discord or access to certain drops or whatever. And then on the other side of the market, you have functional assets, which is like virtual land and game items. And these items, they are potentially revenue generating. And I say potentially because for example, virtual land, you can rent out your land to other people, or you can put a billboard up if you have a lot of visits to your piece of land and that can generate revenue there

Starting point is 00:16:48 from ads. Or you can, on the gaming side, obviously play to earn is huge. And so you're able to generate yield by killing monsters and they drop these potions and then you sell those potions for Ethereum. So I think that's how we kind of look at the market broadly, but they are commingling, where most assets are getting embedded with some sort of functionality today. And us as a firm, we tend to focus on just basically capital appreciation and identifying assets that we believe will accrue more value long-term. We're not really focused right now on the yield generation for a number of reasons, but number one, just being the kind of technical restraints and bandwidth constraints. And also the fact that the market right now, it's quite

Starting point is 00:17:28 alpha rich. And so going down the route of yield generation is just more effort. And if we're able to generate, you know, outsized returns just from the pure investing and, you know, just pure capital appreciation with less effort, then that's better for us. So yeah, that's probably how we look at the market today. But then also like when you dive deeper into the market, NFTs is very broad category already, you know, and it's only about two years old, really, I guess. And, you You know, virtual land, it has its own value drivers. Gaming assets has its own value drivers. And so what we had to do is we had to dive into these markets and identify, okay, what's

Starting point is 00:18:03 actually driving value within these worlds? And so like, for example, virtual land, the value drivers is really location content parameters. So location, are you in Illinois? Are you in Manhattan? The content, are you a single family home or a skyscraper? The parameters is kind of like the zoning laws. So what is the height with length that you're actually allowed to build in this piece of land?

Starting point is 00:18:20 And then if you go to gaming assets, it's really about utility. So if my sword does 10 damage, your sword does 100 damage, your sword is going to be more valuable. Because in theory, that sword, your sword will be able to generate more yield compared to my sword. And if you look at art, it's really all about artist reputation and brands. This is my opinion. But, you know, if I make a Banksy, Andrew, the NFT guy, no one cares, right? Because I'm not like some big time artist. If Banksy makes the exact same piece of art, it's going to sell for 5 million plus.

Starting point is 00:18:46 And then if you look at the collectible side, this is probably the most esoteric, but it's really about narrative. And so to give a physical baseball card analogy, if I have the one of one Babe Ruth baseball card, everyone knows baseball. There's a big community of baseball fans. Everyone knows Babe Ruth. He's really popular. And let's say I got it graded by Beckett Grading Services, which is a third party grading service. And it was a 9.5 out of 10. It's like pristine condition. And all these bits of that story, they add to this value of narrative. And if you look at CryptoPunks, which is an example of an NFT collectible asset, there's only 10,000 of them. They were given away for free in kind of a Bitcoin launch style back in 2017. They used to be considered the first NFTs on Ethereum. Now we know that that's not true, but they used to be considered that, so they're very early. They're made by two geniuses in Brooklyn, et cetera, et cetera. So all these bits of this story, they add to that value narrative, and it really kind of drives the value to a lot of these non-functional assets.

Starting point is 00:19:41 What's the craziest thing you've ever bought in this whole world? What's the most insane thing you're just like, yeah, I can't believe we bought that? The most insane thing? I don't know. I mean, now it all seems normal to me, but I mean, just the concept of virtual land is so weird, right? So to have this idea that, okay,

Starting point is 00:19:58 we're going to be spending time within these environments at some point in the future, you know, and in some sort of VR capacity, right? Now we're in like the pre-Napster era of these virtual worlds. So it's super, super early and user experience, you know, we admit is not that stellar. But that's a super weird concept because if you think about a virtual world, it's really just like a social media platform because you go there, there's no objective.

Starting point is 00:20:20 You can kind of run around, you talk to people with voice chat, you talk to people with text chat, you can attend conferences, concerts, pitch meetings. I've done a lot of pitch meetings inside virtual worlds. And really your profile, the piece of land that you buy is your profile. So instead of just posting photos of yourself and kind of showing off in that sense, you can make a gallery, show off your NFTs. You can also post photos of yourself if you want. you're able to if you know how to code you can make a mini game and actually charge for that

Starting point is 00:20:44 experience uh you pull up an ad you know you can make an e-commerce store like i have a buddy who uh back in uh 20 i think it was 2019 created a shoe store inside crypto voxels which is another virtual world and so he's selling his shoes and generating passive and these are nft shoes selling you know generating passive income from that activity i was like dude you should open up more locations not in crypto voxels but you know that's five or ten more in crypto voxels five or 10 in Decentraland and these other virtual worlds, then eventually you should go public by a social token, right? And give the holders of the social token, let's say some revenue from the cashflow. I mean, obviously that's clear security, but that'd be really cool. And maybe it's a

Starting point is 00:21:23 governance in the sense that they can decide the next shoe style or something like that, right? So I think that we're on the cusp of this weird world of these metaverse native businesses that are going to be launching soon. And it's going to be a whole like mirror economy. And we're going to meet people in the future. They're like, Hey, what do you do? Oh, I'm like, I'm an Axie farmer or something like weird, you know, kind of activity like that. And that's gonna be quite common, you know, in the next two to two to five years. Joe, Joe, what questions you guys got? So my question would be around play to earn gaming and kind of how NFTs fit into all of this. So like my understanding is that maybe there's three and a half or 4 billion, somewhere kind of in

Starting point is 00:21:58 there gamers worldwide. And that ranges from everyone from, you know, playing small games and your mobile phone to hardcore gamers. But a small portion of this is still play to earn. Do you think that we'll see a shift of like the total quantity of players towards play to earn where it's the majority? Or do you think it's more of just the people that are spending the most money in these games

Starting point is 00:22:15 that shift to play to earn? It's a really good question. So what we saw with play to earn was it introduced a new type of gamer. Because before gamers just game because they want to have fun, right? So that's the whole purpose of gaming. And now we have people that want to earn income

Starting point is 00:22:27 that are playing games. And that's a totally new type of customer. And also, that's a huge market, right? That's an absolutely massive market. Pretty much everyone in the world wants to earn money. So I think that going forward, most games are going to integrate some sort of player-earned style system. And I think right now, the issue is that it's oftentimes negating the fun factor, right?

Starting point is 00:22:47 So if you're grinding, unless you enjoy grinding, but most people don't, unless you enjoy grinding and you're really just out there to try to generate yield. And in some sense, yeah, it kind of takes away the fun factor. But over time, I think once it becomes normalized, people will just start playing the games as they would, and they're going to be fun, and they're going to be earning money while they do so. So I think that over time, these communities will just merge, and these different kind of customer bases will just merge into one. And it's going to be, oh, yeah, I'm playing Halo or Call of Duty or whatever. I happen to earn some money. It's not like, oh, I'm playing this just for the reason of earning money.

Starting point is 00:23:21 Because again, these yields will come down over time and the revenue that's generated will not be extremely insane over the course of five to 10 years. So I think the counter argument to that would be that these games probably aren't going to be very good if there's community governance and if people are trying to earn a small amount of income off of it. They want it more based off entertainment where they can spend billions of dollars on marketing and kind of distribution for these games. Do you think that I'm imagining you see this kind of converging at some point where these games become basically one in the same where they're just as good if they're played or earned versus none? Yeah, exactly. I do think that right now it's such a novel concept like wasting.

Starting point is 00:23:57 I can play video games and earn money. That's crazy. And a lot of people are motivated by that money right now. And they will be in the future, but I think it'll be less so. I know it sounds kind of weird, but it's like using the future Uber, the future Facebook and in the blockchain or metaverse metaverse type version where you're getting compensated not not in a big way not earning hundreds of dollars but small amounts of money from the actions that you're taking within these environments within these digital environments so i think that over

Starting point is 00:24:23 time yes like it will become totally normal and the fun factor will will fully be there and and you'll just be like oh i earned you know over the course of a week i earned you know five bucks like playing this game that's that's pretty exciting yeah gotcha andrew thanks for joining us i really appreciate it can you talk you talked originally about the functionality versus community-based NFTs and the difference in the projects. Can you talk about how you evaluate those? So how we evaluate functional versus non-functional assets? Yes. Or just an NFT project in general. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So essentially this world is very weird and new and confusing. So we're like, okay, what actually matters here? Fundamentals.

Starting point is 00:24:58 Like fundamentals always matters. I mean, you can argue in crypto, like not always, but eventually over time it does. So what we look at is team, product, token economics, community, market, data, risks, assess every project on those bare bones fundamentals. And if a project passes muster, we're like, okay, great. We'll use CryptoVoxels, which is a virtual world for this example. We're like, okay, great. CryptoVoxels is a really cool, exciting virtual world. Fundamentally passes our basic bar of kind of a DD right there. And what we're going to do is we want to make an investment. So what we want to do is we're going to dive into this virtual world and we're going to figure out the value drivers. And so the value drivers are location content

Starting point is 00:25:32 parameters, right? That's what we figured out for most virtual worlds. And then we have to dive dive even deeper. It's like, it's a kind of three steps, dive even deeper and develop a thesis on, okay, what, what is there going to be specific thesis on investing in this specific virtual world? And so CryptoVoxels, what we, you know, I don't know if I want to dive too deep, but like, basically we're like, okay, well, what area is going to be valuable? Spawn is going to be very valuable because new players, they always enter in the same spot, right? So any land around that same spot, it's going to get the most number of visits, therefore the most potential for revenue generation in terms of rentals, in terms of kind of billboards and, you know, ad revenue in that

Starting point is 00:26:07 sense, or just kind of eyeballs in general. So that was a great play. And then also there's a downtown area called Frankfurt. And when that was launching, we were kind of first to market there. And that area had the tallest height limit within the whole map, right? So our thesis was that, okay, you know, tallest height and the most buildable area, that'll just be a wanted kind feature of these different virtual worlds in general. And so we made a big play there early on. And I remember entering that kind of market early on and people were furious because we were bidding up, we were bidding one ether on these pieces of land and no one up to that point had bid that high. The highest bid ever was like 0.7 or something like that. And so people were DMing

Starting point is 00:26:50 me and pretty furious about what we were doing. But we're like, listen, I apologize. And we're not trying to mess things up, but we think that it's going to be extremely valuable. So now we're the largest landholder within that downtown area and uh and you know you know now it's going for each piece goes for 50 to you know 50 to 60 70 ether there's some that go for 200 ether um right so so i think that uh it really depends on each each each game each environment each platform is its own world and you need to identify fundamentals value drivers and then specific thesis based off of that exact platform or game or protocol andrew when you think about how the average person like how they should think about all this uh before we let you go like what is

Starting point is 00:27:27 the framework they should use to kind of evaluate this stuff or how do you think that they should start to learn about it? I think just keep it simple. Like I think that that is like simplicity is key because this world is filled with influencers shilling their bags and kind of people talking about this and that. So I think that you have to identify, if you identify a game or product or virtual world, whatever you want, just, yeah, just, just try to focus on, is this a fun experience? Is this something that I enjoy? Is this a beautiful piece of art? Like, I think that keeping it dead simple is probably the best way to, to go about this market. Cause it is so new and confusing and, and really looking at, okay, you know, the, the, the team, you know,

Starting point is 00:28:02 as a team accomplished, you know, have they built a game in the past? Now they're building a game. Have, have they done something that is this, is this a piece of art to have they, has this artist created, you know, something in the past where they have a good reputation or a good kind of community base? Uh, if it's a collectible asset, you know, what is, what is the kind of the story here? What is the narrative here? And so I really think keeping it simple and keeping, you know, light is the best way to go about this market. And then if you want to kind of, you know, do your homework and really dive deep there, there's always that option. But I found that simple as always tends to win. Got it. Where can we send people to find you on the

Starting point is 00:28:33 internet or find out more about the work you guys are doing? Twitter. So my Twitter is Andrew Steinwald. And yeah, you know, DM me if you're, if you're, you know, launching a startup in the NFT space. And I have a podcast as well called Zima Red. And so, you know, go, go check that out. And, uh, yeah, I, that's, uh, that's where I am. Got it. Well, man, listen, you, uh, you're doing big things. I think the way you think about this is fascinating to me and to many, many other people. So keep it up. I love the Twitter account. You're just firing out. He's just like, Hey, what about this? What about this? What about, I'm like, yes, keep it going. I learned a ton from you. So I appreciate, uh, appreciate you put all the time and effort into me on my hand. I just shit posts.

Starting point is 00:29:10 So I, you know, a little bit easier for me. No, you, you, you are, you are the King. I learned from you so yeah definitely no it's all right i i well then that's going to mean a degradation of the quality of your twitter account very quickly so don't be careful um all right man listen thank you so much for uh for joining us we'll definitely have to do this again in the future as uh as this whole thing keeps growing but uh but keep up the good work awesome guys thank you all right later buddy

The Pomp Podcast - #803 How To Evaluate NFT Projects w/ Andrew Steinwold

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