The Pomp Podcast - #860 Automating Your Charitable Donations With Crypto w/ Adam Nash

Episode Date: March 13, 2022

Adam Nash is the CEO & Founder of Daffy, a fintech service to help you donate money to the charities of your choice with ease. He is one of the most influential investors in Silicon Valley with over 100 companies. In this conversation, we discuss how crypto enables frictionless charitable donations and how these donations can help lower your tax bill every year. ======================= Fundrise is the largest direct-to-investor real estate investment platform out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That’s right, Fundrise is making high-end private market real estate investing accessible to everyone via an easy-to-use, automated platform. See for yourself how over 190,000 investors have built a better portfolio with private real estate. It takes just a few minutes to get started with as little as $10.  Go to http://Fundrise.com/Pomp today and, for a limited time, get $10 when you place your first investment. That’s Fundrise.com/Pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= Since 2018 Copper has been at the forefront of institutional digital asset development.   From award winning custody solutions, to creating the first truly off-exchange settlement function, Copper pioneers technology, products, and services, in lock-step with a rapidly changing world.    No other infrastructure provider covers as many assets, across as many exchanges, with the speed and security that Copper can offer. To learn how Copper helps the world’s largest institutional investors secure their digital assets, head over to copper.co   Copper - the unfair advantage. =======================

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Adam Nash is the CEO and co-founder of Daffy, a new fintech platform focused on charitable giving. Nash has been one of the most influential angel investors, advisors, and board members in Silicon Valley. He's got over 100 companies in his portfolio, such as Acorns, Gusto, Figma, and Opendoor. I really enjoyed this conversation with Adam, and I hope you enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Fundrise. You all know I believe that the best investors

both understand and seek out extreme asymmetry. Fundrise is here to help you do just that. It's the largest direct-to-investor real estate investment platform out there, giving you the opportunity to achieve upside of an asset class previously reserved for institutions and high net worth individuals. That's right. Fundrise is making high-end private market real estate investing accessible to everyone via an easy-to-use automated platform. Its 1 million users already know that the investment with Fundrise is capable of producing strong appreciation returns and income generation while helping to stabilize a diversified portfolio. That's more important now than ever in our inflationary environment. See for yourself

how over 190,000 other investors have built a better portfolio with private real estate. It takes just a few minutes to get started with as little as $10. Go to fundrise.com slash Pomp today. And for a limited time, you'll get $10 when you place your first investment. Again, that's fundrise.com slash Pomp. Go check it out. And when you make your first investment, they'll give you $10 on top of it. fundrise.com slash Pomp. This episode is brought to you by Eight Sleep. Eight Sleep is the single best product that I have purchased over the last three years. It completely changed my life. I'm not joking. Pay attention. The Pod Pro cover, which goes over your mattress by Eight Sleep, is the most advanced solution on the market for

thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You can go to 8sleep.com slash Pomp to check out the Pod Pro cover, and you save $150 at checkout. They currently ship within the United States, Canada, and the UK. Now, I told you, it changed my life. It helps me sleep deeper, helps me sleep longer. I feel much more refreshed, and I have better energy. You want to know how I have relentless energy every single day? It's because I sleep on an 8sleep. Seriously, Go check it out, 8sleep.com slash Pomp today. Today's episode is brought to you by Copper. Since 2018, Copper has been at the forefront of institutional digital asset development.

From award-winning custody solutions to creating the first truly off-exchange settlement function, Copper pioneers technology, products, and services in lockstep with a rapidly changing world. No other infrastructure provider covers as many assets across as many exchanges with the speed and security that Copper can offer. To learn how Copper helps the world's largest institutional investors secure their digital assets, head over to copper.co. Again, Copper, the unfair advantage. Check them out at copper.co today. All right, let's get in this episode. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only.

Now, there's been a lot of doom and gloom lately. No, there's a lot of doom and gloom lately. So I want to talk about a little positive stuff. We have our friend Adam is coming on to talk about Daffy, which I actually think is probably one of the more fun, positive things that I've seen somebody build in a while. So Adam, are you there? Yeah, I'm here. Adam, how are you, buddy? Good. Great to be here. All right. I got a lot of questions, but before we get into Daffy, I want to frame your background because I don't think many people may understand just how successful you've been as an angel investor, an operator, an advisor to various companies. In my really deep research for this, I went ahead and I was trying to count all the companies.

I stopped after I got to like 40 and I just Googled your name and it was like a hundred plus companies. So I'm going to take that as the word of at least a hundred companies in terms of an investor, advisor, board member, et cetera. What's been kind of the key to your success as being able to find these companies relatively early in their life cycles and having them turn out to be quite valuable or successful over time? I appreciate that. And it's quite a flattering a intro. I have been angel investing now for over 10 years. And so I've been fortunate to be a part of kind of the growth in a bunch of sectors, FinTech, consumer, et cetera. But when I think back to my career, I mean, people come to tech in a lot of different ways. I happened to come

to it as an engineer and was fortunate enough to start my career at Apple, working with a lot of great people who are doing something at the time seemed pretty impossible, which is to build a whole new operating system, which Apple had failed at doing a couple of times, but they had acquired Next. I was on a project called WebObjects, but it really taught me about focusing on creating value and always thinking about what technology can do going forward. And so most of my career has been watching technology expand from sector to sector, vertical to vertical, and thinking about what can we do now that we couldn't do before. So in Web 1.0, we brought a lot of things online and had a chance to work at companies like eBay. When Web 2.0 started, I got to run product at

LinkedIn, which turned out to be a great platform for people's careers. After LinkedIn, I was the CEO of Wealthfront for four years and got to be a part of this fintech revolution of bringing great software to finance and to regular people in terms of how they interact with their money and trying to do it again with Daffy. When you look at the fintech kind of trends, it seems like everything is being financialized. It seems like digital technology has just infiltrated that, hence the fintech kind of nomenclature. What is driving a lot of that? Is that consumers pulling it? Is it technological breakthroughs that are kind of reducing the friction and barriers for people to actually build stuff for this? Is it a regulatory change?

Like, why is it that fintech has exploded over the last decade or so, really? Yeah, well, let's not forget that the most important thing when it comes to any of these revolutions in technology, it has to do with regular people and their relationship with technology. I mean, the thing that made Wealthfront hard for people to accept in the early days wasn't the technology and it wasn't the regulations. It was that basic question, Will normal people actually trust their money to a computer, to having a software algorithm manage what trades they're making and what investments they're selecting? And so I think that the consumer comes first. But there is true.

I mean, technology keeps getting better. The cloud has made it much, much cheaper and less expensive to build great systems. I mean, you know, when I was in school, trying to build a networked application that worked for a half dozen people was a real challenge. It was something that he went to school to learn how to do. Now, you know, a high school student can spin up a website that handles millions of requests. It's just an amazing thing. So I think the technology does play a huge role in why we can build companies. And then, you know, I think there was a challenge about 10 years ago. Software and Silicon Valley in general had been very reluctant to go after problems in regulated areas. And I think that, you know, when we looked at the big problems, you know, finance, education, health care, we realized if you're avoiding the regulated areas, you're avoiding probably most of the value you could be creating with software. And so I think that fintech has benefited from all these things over the last decade. Got it. And so when you start to look at all of those trends, the technology, the various teams building in it, it seems like everyone is starting a bank, a credit card, like there's just so much competition. And obviously that competition leads to innovation, but it's a very crowded fintech space. when I first saw what you were doing, I said, wait a minute, I haven't seen that many people trying to innovate in a part of the financial sector, but it's not in banking services and

kind of your traditional, uh, Hey, we, as an organization make money off of you as a customer instead, it's in this charitable giving sector. And there's a whole bunch to kind of unpack in that, but like, why just from like a, a vertical selection, why is that so interesting to you? And why did you think there was the possibility to build a business there? Yeah, that's a good question. Well, I mean, part of this is always emotional. It's a sign of the times. I mean, I think the pandemic affected a lot of people in different ways. I mean, the reality is economically, the pandemic was actually quite good for a number of people with the right skills in certain verticals. If you're in technology, I mean, obviously this year hasn't

been as generous when it comes to stock market returns. But when you look at the stock market, when you look at crypto, last 18 to 24 months, there's a lot of people who've done quite well. And I think we're also aware that there are millions of people who have not been so fortunate. And so I think, you know, Alejandro and myself, as well as a number of other people, have been looking for ways to not just talk about helping people, but actually build something that actually does help people. But make no mistake, philanthropy is a huge piece of the economy. I mean, Americans are famously generous when it comes to charity. I think that in 2020, for example, I think it was $471 billion went to charity. $334 billion of that came from individuals.

I mean, you're talking about over 2% of GDP in the US. I think all of agriculture is less than 1%. So this is actually a very big sector. And it's somewhat of a mystery why you don't see more large platform companies in this area. And so when Alejandro and I were thinking about different products and services to bring to market, we thought about the different trends that we thought were going to be guiding fintech over the next five years.

And we said, hey, why can't we take all this great innovation that's been helping people save, that's helping people spend. Why can't we use the same types of features to help people give? And that was really where Daffy was born. Got it. And so when you start to think about the experience for the everyday user, like what is it, if they come and they start to use the product, what do they actually do on a day-to-day basis? And why is that something that you think is good for them or why they should do it? Well, the basic insight behind Daffy is actually really quite simple. It's almost an old fashioned, something your grandmother taught you type of thing. Listen, no matter what's going on in your life, good, bad, ugly, there are people less

fortunate than yourself, right? And it's almost a biblical idea, the idea that you should always be putting something aside for those less fortunate than yourself. And so, look, the behavioral finance research is very clear. I mean, if you had to write a check every time that you wanted to save money for retirement, people would rarely write that check, right? We know that automatically withdrawing money, putting it in 401k, automatically saving is one of the best ways to save. And so Daphne actually works the same way, just with giving. We ask this deceptively simple question up front, which is simply like, how much do you want to give to charity this year? You know, do you have a number? We call it the giving goal. And then we ask you to take a pledge,

which is like, hey, I'm going to put aside a little bit of money every week or every month, automatically comes out of your bank account and put it in a donor advised fund, put it in an account for charity. You get the tax deduction right away for making the contribution. The money's invested. We have nine different portfolios built of either ETFs or we have also pure crypto portfolios. And then when you're ready to give, you have this incredible mobile app with you. And just with a few taps, you can give to any of over one and a half million charities across the US. So I think this is really important. Let's break down what a donor advised fund is, because I think a lot of people probably don't know what that exactly is. And I will

describe maybe at the most high level basic way of I take money today, I put it into a dedicated entity or vehicle called a donor advised fund, that money has not been actually given to a charity yet, it sits there, there's a tax write off for it in the beginning. But it can be invested, it can be grown. And so if I put a dollar in today, it grows to $2. At some point in the future, I can actually give away $2 rather than $1. But I've basically earmarked that for charitable giving in this specific entity. Is that kind of a fair way to describe how these donor advised funds work? Yeah, I think that that's the basics. There's a little bit of detail that's important, but I think a donor advised fund is just a special account, just the way that an IRA is

a special account for retirement, or a 529 is a special account for saving for college. It turns out giving to charity is actually a pretty hard problem. When I look at it as a product perspective, you first have to figure out how much you can afford to give. And that's a hard problem for people. And then the second problem is who to give it to. And the beauty of a donor advised fund is you can separate those two problems, right? You can put money aside for charity, have it invested, it grows. And then when you figure out who to give it to, you can. Now, you mentioned taxes. That's certainly one of the reasons that I think it's been a very popular account with

the wealthy. I mean, there's now, I think, close to a million donor advised funds in the US. And the reason it's popular is because, look, taxes run on the calendar year, right? And that's not always opportune for when you want to give. And so by putting money in a donor advised fund, donor advised funds like DAFI are actually nonprofits themselves, right? We're a 501c3 not-for-profit organization. So when you put money in the donor advised fund, you get that tax deduction immediately in the year you make the contribution.

And then you have a flexible amount of time to give to organizations that need it. Got it. And so how do you think about the money that sits in the donor advised fund investing it? You mentioned there's a couple of different vehicles. And for those that may not be as familiar, this is exactly what happens at endowments or private foundations and other types of organizations where basically there's money contributed. It's then held in a kind of a special tax status. It can be invested and grown for some period of time and then eventually gets given away. And it's a way to kind of give away more money over time. But how do you all think about actually investing those funds?

So if I go and I put 20 bucks a week or whatever into this donor advised fund, what are you all doing with it? And how much control do I have over where it actually gets invested? Yeah, it's similar to a lot of automatic investment services out there. We try to be flexible. Different people have different opinions about where they want to see their money invested. And so we have three types of portfolios right now. We launched with standard ETF portfolios provided by Vanguard ETFs. So standard mixes of stocks and bonds, domestic, global, et cetera.

Very low cost, only about four basis points on average for that portfolio. We also offer ESG portfolios from using BlackRock ETFs for people who want to align their investments, especially folks interested in charity, sometimes want to make sure their investments are aligned with their values. And then, of course, what's been amazingly popular have been our crypto portfolios. We offer a diversified portfolio with a product from Bitwise Investments, where I'm also an advisor. And then we also offer two pure crypto portfolios, one that's a Bitcoin-Ethereum split, roughly market cap weighted, and then a pure Bitcoin portfolio for those who really, really just believe in Bitcoin. Got it. And so when you think about this,

I think you guys actually started first with crypto as like the donation component. So it feels like you have this like crypto DNA. What are you seeing either from contributions of crypto or the investments into crypto in the donor advised fund? What are you seeing from the actual users? And do you have any stats or just even like kind of trend lines in terms of how popular crypto is with your user base? Yeah, I'm very happy to share it. And I'm flattered. I don't know if I can claim to have pure crypto DNA, but I've been excited about crypto since about 2012. And so it seemed natural to make sure it was included.

I mean, for us at Daffy, the idea is to make it easy to give. And the fact is, crypto is easy to give, right? You can download our app if you want to contribute crypto. We now support over 120 different coins, basically everything Coinbase supports. Coinbase Ventures is an investor in Daffy. And fundamentally, you just download this app. We gave you a temporary wallet address. You send the crypto in and you get an immediate tax credit for that.

And like you said, we had it at launch, but we were shocked at how many people were being generous with crypto. Some of our biggest contribution, in fact, our biggest contribution to date has been a crypto contribution. And it's not really surprising. I mean, let's be clear for folks who are watching or listening. I mean, donating crypto is a fantastic thing to do, not just from kind of a moral standpoint in terms of how much good you can do for organizations, but also from a tax perspective. When you donate crypto, you never have to pay the capital gains taxes, which is a big benefit, right, especially if you've been holding coins for a long time.

And then, of course, you know, charitable deductions, one of the best income tax deductions you have up to 30 percent of AGI, I believe, this year. And that comes off off income, which is usually the highest rate. So we're not really surprised to see a lot of crypto donations. We tried to make it easy because our whole mission is to get money to organizations that need it. And if we can take some of the wealth that's been created in crypto and channel and defeating people or helping people or getting people more education, et cetera, then, you know, so be it. That's fantastic. Yeah, it is pretty crazy when people start to understand the tax code, charitable giving, and the advantages and also disadvantages that come from all the complexity. But it's one of the things we spend a lot of time talking about of just like billionaires who everyone loves to yell and scream at for a lot of the tax code leverage that they have.

They have the same tax code as everybody else, right? But understanding it is really important. And there are certain things you can do. Owning a company puts you in a different position than as an individual. Using charitable components of the tax code puts you in a different position, et cetera. But it really is kind of an education gap. And if we can get more and more people educated on how this stuff works, it actually leads to people understanding what they can do. And so how do you think about, from an education standpoint, really helping people understand what, you know, on the face just seems super complex, right?

Taxes. And nobody likes doing it. Everyone feels like, oh, my God, this is crazy. We started thinking about charitable donations. A lot of people think about doing good in the world, but not necessarily what the potential tax implications are. What are you guys doing there to help on the education front? Well, look, I think you're right. I mean, we obviously, we try to write about this and share the information. Even as you mentioned earlier, most people have never heard of a donor advised fund, right? If you don't have a high-end

financial advisor or accountant, you've probably never had someone whispering in your ear saying, hey, you actually had a big liquidity event this year. You had a big stock gain, big gain in crypto. You should consider a donor advice fund. And so probably the biggest thing that we're doing is just putting the product out there. I mean, I was shocked to find out when we started Daffy that there was no donor advice fund in the app store. I mean, the app store is not new, right? There's been more than a decade. Like you said, there's hundreds of financial apps for almost everything you want to do. But if you wanted to open up a donor advised fund, contribute money, invest it, and then donate to charity.

There was no app that did those simple things in the app store. Actually, Daffy was the first one. And so I think the biggest thing that we're doing is just putting the app out there. I think the second thing we're trying to do is help people educate each other, right? So when you join Daffy, of course, just like a lot of fintech apps, you get a profile, you get a username, et cetera, and you can refer other people in. Now with some financial applications, that just means more money for you. With Daffy, what we've done is made it that when you invite someone else to Daffy, they get $25 to donate to whichever charity they support, which we found is actually an excellent motivator. And it gets people into the product using it. I don't know if it's so important that

people know what a donor advised fund is or the specifics of the tax code exactly. I think that some of our job in building these products and services is just to make it simple and transparent what's going on and people learn along the way. But I agree with you. Financial education is a big passion of mine. It's something I spend time teaching in my spare time now at Stanford. And I think that building products and services is one way that we really help bring this information, this understanding to people in a way that already works, right? They don't have to figure it out themselves. They just have to use the product. Yeah, absolutely. Joe, John, what questions do you guys have? Adam, so my question would just be around like if you could talk to how

people are actually using the product, right? How many people not only have signed up and stuff, but how much they're contributing, how long the accounts go on for before they actually donate the funds and so on. Yeah. So this has been a big hot topic in the industry with donor advised funds because it's like, well, is the money actually getting the organizations? And we set up DAFI specifically to help people give, right? So right from the very first moment you start, you are picking out charities that you support. And we try to do things like recurring donations and other mechanisms to almost make it automatic to get the money out. And our donor agreement does estimate a target for folks of giving at least 10 percent of the account every

year. That's the goal that we set for folks. But in general, the biggest thing I think that we've done to try and make it to support giving is we actually changed our business model. I mean, the terrible thing about most of the existing donor advised funds, so you don't have to be so sympathetic to the billionaires quite yet, is that they actually charge fees based on the percent of assets that you have under management, right? An AUM fee. Now, this is very standard in the investment world, right? Most funds charge based on percent of assets. But when it comes to giving, it creates this real dilemma, right? If you have a $100,000 donor advised fund and you give away $20,000, these old school providers lose 20% of their revenue, right? So they're

not really incented to have you give the money away. Daffy, because it's membership-based, is ambivalent. We're happy to have you put money in, give money out. As long as you stay a member of the Daffy community, Daffy is very happy to see you there. And so we're trying to do a lot of things to push money out that, frankly, haven't been done with traditional donor advice funds because we think our incentives are a little bit more aligned. Yeah. Adam, thank you for joining us. Can you talk about some of the pain points people have like run into using this kind of service or is it all, all smooth sailing? Well, I think that, you know,

the biggest pain point that people run into is what we were talking about earlier is that people don't know that donor advised funds exist. Right. So if you're not a multimillionaire with a financial advisor, you haven't heard of this thing. I mean, you have to admit, it sounds a little bit like magic, right? This idea of like, you know, let's say like last December, you know, you're feeling good about some of your gains in crypto. you realize the tax year is coming to a close and you want to donate some Bitcoin to charity.

But at the same time, it's already December. Do you know which charity to give it to? Do you even know a charity that can take crypto? I mean, some can, but you know, our second donation in the history of Daffy was actually someone giving to an Orthodox synagogue who, and that Orthodox synagogue, of course, didn't know how to take crypto. But the member figured, oh, I just download Daffy, right, contribute the Bitcoin to Daffy, and then Daffy gets the money to the synagogue and then kind of everyone wins. And so I think that for most people, it's really realizing that it could be this simple. But I'll tell you personally, you know, I walk around having an app in my pocket. I ran into a minister from Oakland who was actually fundraising out here

in town in Los Altos, talked to him for a few minutes, love the cause, didn't want to buy the bake sale since trying to keep the pounds off this year. It's a little bit more travel post pandemic. But fundamentally wanted to make sure I supported the organization. The fact that I could whip out this app and in three taps kind of find his organization, give them money, support their cause was just, it's just a wonderful feeling. It turns out being able to give easily is a good thing. It's a better way to live. And so that's a lot of what we focused on with the product and service. Gotcha. Adam, when you think about kind of building the team for something like this, where are you finding the talent to help you build it? Are they coming from kind of the more

legacy technology side, the finance side, the crypto community, a mixture? How are you thinking about building the team? Well, all of the above. I mean, this is one of the exciting things about this boom in remote work, et cetera, is that we've been able to pull talent from a lot of different places. So we do have a headquarters here in Silicon Valley, and we have a number of people who've worked at companies like Google and Twitter. Of course, we like to hire some of the best technologists we can. We also have people from finance. Our new head of our donor advised fund platform came from 12 and a half years working at Schwab Charitable right inside the industry. And then my co-founder Alejandro actually comes from Argentina. He was actually

my favorite engineer to work with at LinkedIn back in the day. And we had been thinking about starting a company together for years. And so we've even been able to hire a number of incredibly talented designers and engineers outside the country, all working together to kind of build this app and this service. It's been phenomenal. Yeah, it's awesome. I love this. This feels like one of those things that whether people are users, investors, or just fans of it, it's good for the world. It's good for, you know, kind of positive impact. And it's taking something that already exist and just making it more mainstream. It's reducing the friction and access, uh, or increasing access and reducing friction, uh, which usually leads to, uh, to pretty incredible opportunities.

So, uh, it's, uh, it's awesome to see you doing this. Uh, one last question I have for you is, uh, as one of our partners on the show is eight sleep. And normally we ask people what their sleep routine is and all of that. But, uh, one of the things that you're going through right now is you're building an early stage startup, which, uh, regardless of how many times you've done it, no matter how many you've invested in, it's hard. There's ups, downs, sometimes in the same day, lots of stress, lots of positives and negatives. How has your sleep changed over, let's say, the last two or three years? Obviously, we had the pandemic in there. You started the business, et cetera. How has your sleep routine or quality changed over time?

It's a good question, of course, and staying healthy is important. Exercise, the way you eat, et cetera. I think everyone knows that you can't just push all the time, right? Like you have to stay in a healthy zone. The pandemic changed routines quite a bit, but not in a bad way. My wife and I actually have a fire pit outside. We have four kids. And so there's a whole exercise of putting the kids to bed. But after the kids go to bed, we have a routine where we actually like to sit and talk about the day, sit out by the fire pit. If we're a little bit settled down, no screens, um, so that we can get to bed at a reasonable hour and actually get some good sleep. Um, because the whole routine starts in the morning. My day doesn't actually start,

um, with any other than getting the kids ready for school and then dropping them off, um, and then heading off to try and build great products and services. So, um, so yeah, so that's, uh, that's our pandemic story. That's awesome. Every night at the fire pit. Listen, it's, uh, it's one of these things also when, like, when you find something that works, like don't change it. right. And, and like, just like keep doing the same thing. I know people who, you know, they go on a walk, it's a fire pit. It's like, whatever the thing is, if it works, just keep doing it over and over again. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you know, it's I think before the pandemic, you just had a lot of activity. You were going out in evenings, that sort of thing. And

you know, you feel like you never catch up on sleep, et cetera. But I think the pandemic in a weird way was a gift for families. In some ways there were so many stressful and painful things with the illness at school, et cetera, and the lockdowns. But at the same time, you were together, at least in our family, we were together. And I think it created some better habits, frankly, that I hope stick with us the next few years. Yeah, I think that's right. Where can we send people to find you on the internet or find out more about Daffy, download it, et cetera? Yeah, try to make it as easy as possible. So of course, if you just go type Daffy into the app store, you'll find our app. If you want to do it from your desktop, if you just go to

daffy.org. Click that big turquoise get started button in the upper right hand corner. We try to make it very easy to get going. And like I said, you can link your bank account. You can do a debit or credit card, crypto, stock, ETFs. You can even transfer money from an existing donor advised fund if you want to save money. And we try and take care of it all for you. All right. My last question for you, which my brothers are going to laugh. So we're big dogs over here. If we want to do a lot of money, can we do it through Daffy or are there limitations to, uh, to how much can actually go through the platform? Well, so, um, you know, we're new, so I appreciate you guys are big dogs. Great. Cause I'm not about to

challenge them to donate some money. So that's why I want to know first. Yeah. So, I mean like pace yourself, you don't have to blow it all at once, right. You can go, but if you want to jump in, um, we've already had, um, multimillion dollar contributions and we already have accounts well over a million dollars. John, you in for that? But our minimum is only 10. So whatever works for you. But yeah, we've tried to build a robust service. Like I said, most of the people working on this have worked on fintech applications that have scaled to billions or tens of billions. I mean, Wealthfront, as you know, now has over 27 billion assets under management. So we're pretty confident in the scale that we can handle. And it's one of the reasons we use platforms like

Coinbase, et cetera, so that we can handle however much you want to give. I mean, you guys make big money you can you can give big money that's great right john you gotta make big money first maybe test out the product you know start with ten dollars they're already they're already walking it back hey no no it's all good i mean this i i'm in all seriousness we um since we don't make money off an asset fee since it's a straight membership fee um from us it's just more like as much as you want fantastic but if you just want to get started with a little, that's fantastic too. Vanguard has a $25,000 minimum on these accounts and they charge 60 bps for the whole thing. We try to make it super easy for people to just get started and

keep it really inexpensive. Three bucks a month. It's not a big deal. Yeah, it's great. All right, we'll see. We're going to get some accounts rocking here and we'll see who puts the most zeros on the end. If I do it, I'm not using Vanguard, I'm using Daffy. Yeah, look guys, I mean, I'm not against a little friendly competition. If you want a leaderboard, which brother gives the most, we can run that for 2022. I'm okay with it. That's all right.

What we'll do is we'll all just be scrambling to see who's the one who gets the information the latest so that they then can just give $1 more. That's like the price is right. Yeah, Adam, you don't want to start that a whole game. All right, buddy. Listen, thank you so much for joining us. Anyone who has not checked it out yet,

daffy.org or just go into the app store and you can download Daffy there. give something life life is good most of us in the in the western world we uh we're doing all right uh even though it seems like we're living in crazy times it's uh uh you could always give a little bit right and even if it's just 10 bucks that uh that gets you started so go check it out daffy.org or go into the app store and search daffy so thanks so much adam we appreciate it yeah thank you and thank you guys for having me on all right sounds good buddy talk to you soon all right thanks so much for listening to today's episode i really hope you guys enjoyed this one

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