The Pomp Podcast - #869 Money Is A Made Up Thing w/ Jacob Goldstein

Starting point is 00:00:00 what's up everyone this is anthony pompliano most of you know me as pomp you're listening to the pomp podcast simply the best podcast out there now let's kick this thing off jacob goldstein is an executive producer and host at pushkin industry he's also the author of a book called money the true story of a made-up thing in this conversation we talk about his book we talk about stable coins inflation rates the gold standard and much more i really enjoyed this conversation with Jacob, and I hope that you enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I want to quickly talk about our sponsors. Today's episode is brought to you by Copper. Since 2018, Copper has been at the forefront of institutional digital asset development.

Starting point is 00:00:40 From award-winning custody solutions to creating the first truly off-exchange settlement function, Copper pioneers technology, products, and services in lockstep with a rapidly changing world. No other infrastructure provider covers as many assets across as many exchanges with the speed and security that Copper can offer. To learn how Copper helps the world's largest institutional investors secure their digital assets, head over to Copper.co. Again, Copper, the unfair advantage. Check them out at Copper.co today. Next up is Compass Mining. Compass Mining is the world's largest marketplace for mining hardware and hosting. With Compass, everyone can mine Bitcoin. Their team makes it easy to start mining wherever you want, at home or in one of their 23 hosting

Starting point is 00:01:25 facilities around the world. Through the Compass Marketplace, retail miners can access mining hardware with similar prices and purchase plans as the world's largest mining companies. Compass miners own their machines, they choose whatever mining pool they want, and they mine directly to their own wallets. Miners who don't want to host their machines can order ASICs directly to their doorstep. Simple and low-cost hosting agreements coupled with best-in-class customer service are the reasons why Compass is the simplest and most popular way to mine Bitcoin. Start mining your own Bitcoin today by visiting compassmining.io. Again, compassmining.io. Go check them out and let me know what you think.

Starting point is 00:02:05 This episode is brought to you by Bullish. Bullish is a powerful new digital asset exchange built for institutions that delivers the innovations of DeFi in a regulated environment. The Bullish hybrid order book pairs the high performance of a traditional central limit order book with the automated market making powered by deep bullish liquidity pools backed by the multi-billion dollar bullish treasury so you can trade with certainty and at scale across variable market conditions you can learn more at bullish.com or follow bullish on twitter because the future belongs to the bullish now this is not investment advice digital assets and cryptocurrencies are high-risk products consult your professional advisor before dealing in them bullishest

Starting point is 00:02:43 services are available in select locations only and not to US persons. Visit bullish.com slash legal for important information and risk warnings. Go check them out at bullish.com or follow at bullish on Twitter. All right, let's get in this episode. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Jacob, how are you doing? I'm good. I've got a

Starting point is 00:03:24 lot of questions for you. You're a legend for writing a book, literally money, the true story of a made up thing. Let's start with the book first. Why are you interested in money? And like, why is that the perspective that you ended up with of basically saying, hey, this is just like this made up thing that society adopted? I mean, money, as you know, from your work, right? Like, It's amazing. And it's a great way to look, like, not just at, you know, how do I buy the stuff I need? How do I live a comfortable life? But a great way to look at, like, how society works, right? How do people decide to move stuff around, to do exchange? So, like, it's just this incredible story you can see for long periods of time. And then when you study the history, you get a new sort of perspective on what's happening now. I mean, one of the things I'm curious to get your views on is stable coins, because I have all these like historical references from my from my writing. And I'm like thinking, well, are stable coins like these weird dollar bills we had in the 1800s? Are they like money market mutual funds? I think they kind of are. So, yeah, it's great. There's a ton of stuff there.

Starting point is 00:04:22 So when you think about let's talk about money and we'll talk about stable coins here in a second. But when you when you think about money, how much of the money today is this like belief system, right? you and I agree that this piece of paper or this electronic QSIP has value and therefore we're willing to exchange it back and forth, but that's a new thing. And actually the money of 50 plus years ago, didn't have a belief system tied to it as more so commodity-based. Like, do you make a difference between whether it's the gold standard or some other kind of form of commodity-based money elsewhere in history to fiat, or has it always just been a belief system? It's just whether there was a physical good or not, but it's still a belief system.

Starting point is 00:05:01 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean, you know, it doesn't have to be as binary, I think, as you're framing it, right? Like, it definitely is striking how recent the fiat world is, right? Money is thousands of years old. And with really a few exceptions, it was always, almost always commodity-based for thousands of years until essentially the Depression, right? When even that commodity sort of underpinning got taken away when the world went off the gold standard. So on one level, it's even more belief-based now. But on another level, like gold is not inherently useful, right? Like it's not like it was like a wheat-based standard. It was like, okay, I know I can eat if I trade in my dollar bills for wheat, right? So gold itself, the idea that commodity-based money is somehow real is not quite true either, right? The value of gold is made up, right? It just comes from this sort of abstract desire.

Starting point is 00:05:53 And so when you think about that, how do you evaluate Bitcoin and cryptocurrencies, right? Just as like an industry, is it something where it should replicate what's already been going on in history? Do you look at it as something that, no, actually kind of diverging or creating like a bifurcated offering is where the value lies because money isn't working right now? Like what's the lens or the framework you use to evaluate kind of the current industry in the current state? I mean, at the sort of broadest level, the you know, what the historical context tells me is like, is this whatever the monetary regime is at some given moment, right, whether it's like the gold standard or fiat or whatever, most people at most times just think whatever money is, is like a fact in the world. Right. They don't think it's like this made up set of rules, which is what it always is. They think, oh, it's just like nature. Right. It's just like water flows downhill. We have governments creating fiat currency, whatever. People assume it's real. Right. And the key insight for me, I think, is no, no, it's always made up and you can always have a new regime. Right. So at the broadest level, like crypto is a plausible new regime. Like, I don't know that it's going to become money, that it's going to displace the current regime we have, but it definitely could.

Starting point is 00:07:07 And eventually something will. Right. And so to me, the big insight is like there is, you know, the way money works now is not natural. It's always made up and something will always come along and be the new made up thing. So I want to use two examples. One is a historical example, and one is kind of a modern example. The rise of coins in ancient Greece. I know you talk about that in the book. And I think a lot of people, for whatever reason, I would call it nostalgia, except for none of us were alive then. They just think it's interesting.

Starting point is 00:07:36 Yeah, they just think it's interesting, right? Walk us through kind of like what are the important things that people should take away from that time period in terms of what money was and how that's informed our relationship with money today? I like that. Yeah, that's a deep cut. So that's like, oh, what, about 600 years B.C. So we're thousands of years ago now. Right. And it's really the first thing we today would recognize as money was these coins. So they emerge in the eastern Mediterranean. Actually, this this kingdom in Turkey that gets wiped out. But but the Greeks go really crazy for coins and coins are great for the Greeks for this reason. before the greeks came along there wasn't really like a fully monetized society right so you had a couple different ways of of sort of you know doing trade right you had these big kingdoms that were very top down right where they would be like a priest or a king and it would be like a command and control economy today right the priest or the king would basically be like okay i'm going to take this stuff from this farmer and i'm going to give it to this guy over here right there wasn't

Starting point is 00:08:35 a market economy really on the other hand you had like really small sort of tribal type societies where everybody knew each other and they had like kind of rules for, you know, I'm going to lend this to you. You're going to lend that to me. Exchange worked that way. So the Greeks, you know, as we know, right, they're like the cradle of democracy. And they were too big to do the like tribal, oh, kumbaya, we're all going to lend stuff to each other. But they were also too sort of free to have a top down, like the king's going to say who gets what. Right. So what they needed was money. Right. They needed a way to do exchange in a big, complicated society where nobody controls everything and coins come along and they're like the perfect thing for Greece. So that's a nice

Starting point is 00:09:15 place to kind of start the money story and think about what it does for us. It's so funny how like the physical coin is the thing that we still think about today. Amazing, right? Amazing. Like there's literally people born today who won't touch a coin for a decade, right? Like, yeah. Why would you, right? Like, why would you, it's more trouble than it's worth. So I think that's a huge piece of it. And I also find it hilarious that some people may remember, I think it was Kyle Bass is one person. There was a couple of others.

Starting point is 00:09:46 Kyle Bass is a macro investor. He bought like a million dollars worth of nickels because he thought that the nickel in the nickel would actually be worth more over time. Well, that's happening again right now, right? The price of nickel is going through the roof. And so a nickel is definitely worth more than a nickel. If you can, you know,

Starting point is 00:10:02 you got to get the nickel out of it is the hard part. And for anyone who thinks that they should run and go buy a bunch of nickels, it is illegal to destroy the nickel. So please be careful. So you didn't hear it here. Not investment advice. But it is interesting to think about this idea of the commodity itself could be worth more than what the actual coin itself is pegged to. That was actually a problem for like hundreds of years, you know, in the whatever, 17th century-ish, when countries were on the gold standard and the silver standard. And they would, you know, the government would try and set an exchange rate between gold and silver.

Starting point is 00:10:32 But there was always a market price. Right. And they were always getting the market price wrong. So people would be like getting silver in England and taking it over to Europe and melting it down and selling it like it's quite hard to do sort of top down monetary stuff. I completely agree. The modern example I want to talk about is this idea of shadow banking. I think a lot of people have heard that term or that phrase. They have no clue what that means. What is it and why is it important for people to understand shadow banking in today's day and age? Yeah. Shadow banking is super interesting. So if you think of like the most simple, basic thing a bank does, right, is basically you go and put your money there for safekeeping and then the bank turns around and lends out your money to somebody else and collects interest. Right. That is like banking, you know, 1.0, the simplest thing banks do. They still do it. So regulated banks do it. They're just banks. But what keeps happening again, this is another thing you keep seeing through history. Right. Banks get regulated for some set of reasons. basically because banks have this unique ability to sort of create money and blow up the economy. And people like, why is this bank screwing me over? So they get regulated. And then what happens

Starting point is 00:11:37 is other institutions come along. So if you go back to, say, the 1970s, right out of the Depression, since the Depression, there had been caps on how much interest banks could pay. And so these basically two guys, just these two finance guys were like, well, what if we start something where we take people's money and we give them a little more interest and we take their money and we lend it out for really safe things. You know, we'll buy treasury bonds or even like jumbo CDs in a bank. And so they called that a money market mutual fund, right? Lots of people have money in money market funds today, not technically a bank, not regulated like a bank, but doing the basic banking thing, right? It's kind of a regulatory arbitrage. So this gets

Starting point is 00:12:19 bigger and bigger in the like end of the 20th century, basically grows into this multi-trillion dollar business, shadow banking, this like doing what banks do, borrowing and lending, taking deposits, lending it out. And it ends up driving the rise of finance in the like early aughts, right? The housing bubble and Wall Street getting giant. And then when we have the financial crisis in 2008, there's a run on the shadow banking system. Everybody's like, I want to take my money out of the money market mutual fund and all these other weird finance-y things that our bank like. And of course, these institutions didn't have deposit insurance. And, you know, when there's a run, when everybody comes and says, I want my money right now, the money market

Starting point is 00:12:58 mutual fund and all the other shadow banks say what banks always say in a run, we don't have your money. We lend it out, we loaned it out. And then they're trying to sell and it's a fire sale. And that was a huge part. And I think an undercover part of the economic collapse of 2008. And so in that moment, is it fair to say that like the belief system or the made up part gets exposed or like people lose confidence? And so when you lose the confidence game, then all of a sudden that's where you increase the odds of these bank runs or the runs on the money market funds? Absolutely. I mean, bank runs. And like, the weird thing is, if you think like, even if I trust my bank, if I think everybody else is going to go and try and get their money

Starting point is 00:13:34 out of the bank, it's rational for me to be like, oh, shit, I better get there before all the money is gone. Right. Sorry, I curse. And I'll say, and I don't know if this is what you're walking up to, but like the Bitcoin white paper came out and what Halloween 2008, right? Like one month after Lehman Brothers went bankrupt. Like that's not a coincidence. And when you read the stuff Satoshi is writing at that time, it's all like, hey, we don't trust the banks. Let's try and find out something new. And even the the Genesis block. Right. That comes out in early 2009, still right in the teeth of the crisis, as you probably know, in the Genesis block, which is just code. Right. You look at it. It's just code, code, code. But off to the side,

Starting point is 00:14:14 there's this headline from a British paper, I think the Times of London about a bank bailout. Right. So like, I don't know if you were walking up to that, but it's right there. Yeah. It's a, it reminds me a lot of when you talk about the bank runs, uh, during the pandemic, if you went to the grocery store and you were like, Oh, there's no milk, there's no bread, there's no masks. Like, shit, I need toilet paper. I need bread. I need milk. Like, like you just get this feeling of like, what does everybody else know that I don't know? And similar thing with, uh, with money on the bank runs. And then to your point, Bitcoin was built, uh, or at least launched during the global financial crisis. Uh, and

Starting point is 00:14:48 And, you know, you'd be hard pressed to convince me that it didn't have anything to do with the global financial crisis happening at the same time. I mean, certainly, I mean, the technology people have been working toward that for like 20 years by that point. Right. Like there's a great backstory about the cypherpunks and people trying to figure out this really hard technical problem. Right. How do you make digital money on the Internet that people can't just copy and paste and where, you know, everything. And like you see them solving like problem after problem. They haven't quite solved them all until the Bitcoin white paper. But it is like for marketing purposes, amazing timing for Bitcoin. For sure.

Starting point is 00:15:22 What about stable coins? Like, I know that you've spent a lot of time kind of thinking about this. There's this idea that like, oh, it's just a currency, right? Just like the dollar or anything else. Then there's an idea of like, oh, wait, maybe these are like new versions of money market funds. Like, how do you evaluate what stable coins are and their role in the global financial markets?

Starting point is 00:15:38 Yeah. And I mean, you know, this is one where you almost certainly know more about the sort of day to day of it than I do. But when I look at it from this like historical perspective, it does look to me like like a kind of shadow banking. Right. Like if you think about what a stable coin is, it's like I give them a dollar and they say to me, OK, you can have your dollar back any time you want. And then they take my dollar and they in many cases lend it out. Right. They'll they'll maybe, you know, buy commercial paper. They'll lend it out to a to a corporation for a short term, for a month or something. But still, if everybody comes and wants their dollar back at the same time, the stablecoin issuer is not going to have it, right?

Starting point is 00:16:15 And so that is like a fundamentally precarious thing, it seems to me. But I'm curious. I mean, do you think that's right? I mean, I think it's a version of it for sure. What you ultimately have to look at is like, what are they doing? And in some way, you could describe it as shadow banking. Another way you could talk about it is just like it's upgrading the technology of the assets, right? So I think a lot about, uh, let's say that you have physical dollars and you go and you

Starting point is 00:16:42 give them to the bank and the bank literally then gives you electronic QSIP based dollars in some like very elementary, uh, or barbaric analysis. They just gave you a technology upgrade. It's the same asset. It's supposed to still represent $1 has the same purchasing powers, still subject to the same monetary policy. It's just, they upgraded your technology from analog to electronic QSIP. Yeah. In some way. Now you can take the electronic QSIP and go and upgrade it to the digital form, which is, are these stable coins? And there's variations between each one of them and, uh, different levels of trust and regulation and auditing and whatever. But like the physical payment rail sucks, right? Like, like right now, if you're like, Hey, give me a dollar, like it will take me a while to get you a physical dollar.

Starting point is 00:17:26 like it takes days right it's amazing and like i did a story about this eight years ago or something they're like no we're gonna fix it we're gonna fix it and like still it sucks yeah so it's like physical sucks then you get to like the electronic q-sips wires achs all that that sucks and stable coins are in my opinion the single best way to move dollars around the world today it's cheaper it's faster it's more internationally accessible etc and so you've just gotten a technology upgrade over time now the question is is that a technology upgrade exclusively? Does it empower a continuation or evolution of shadow banking? Like, like what are the implications? And frankly, I don't know if we have those answers yet. Like there's still a lot

Starting point is 00:18:05 of work here and we're just watching it play out. I mean, it's clearly runnable, right? Like they're engaging in maturity transformation, right? They're taking, they're, they're taking my dollar and saying, I can have my dollar at a moment's notice. And then they're lending it out to people who aren't going to pay it back for a month or something, right? Not all of them, but some of them are doing that. And like, and, you know, there's a universe where it's like, just a few people are doing that and whatever caveat input, or, you know, if those people can't get their money back, I don't care. They took a risk. It's not my problem, but I do feel like there's some size, right. At some point, stable coins will be big enough where there'll be a crisis and there'll

Starting point is 00:18:41 be a run on them. And, and they'll be big enough that they can do damage to the broader economy, right. That they can sort of hurt innocent bystanders. And so when you get to that point, It does seem worth thinking like in the same way that we have, you know, deposit insurance and lots of rules about money market mutual funds, which like aren't great rules, by the way, in many ways. But it does seem worth thinking about like, OK, what are the risks to people who aren't involved and how do we mitigate those risks? Right. Like, I mean, a simple move is like if a stable coin beyond a certain size market cap, whatever, had to keep the money in, you know, in a reserve account at the Fed or even in like short term treasuries, which which are super liquid. Right. Like that would be way safer. So I don't know. It'll be interesting to see how it shakes out. It does seem like a new technology on like a super old move. Right. It's like the most ancient banking move in the world

Starting point is 00:19:34 strapped onto this 21st century technology. Some people argue that's the value. Some people argue that's the danger, right? It's kind of, it cuts both ways. It could be both. Like a lot of technology is like super useful and then maybe could blow up. I've got two of my brothers here with me.

Starting point is 00:19:50 I think they've got questions for you as well. Joe, what you got? Jacob, thanks for coming on. I think most Bitcoiners would agree, obviously, that money only exists and has value because we believe in it, right? But there are a lot of people in the world who are not Bitcoiners

Starting point is 00:20:02 and do not have any idea about this. How do you explain to them the concept that money is just made up kind of in short two to three or four sentences? Well, I mean, fiat makes it pretty obvious, right? Like a dollar is literally just a piece of paper. You could start with that, right? And then you could say most dollars

Starting point is 00:20:20 aren't even a piece of paper. Like today we might think of a coin like you were saying, but we might think of a piece of paper, but like the vast majority of money is literally just an entry on a bank computer. Like that's it. there's nothing there. There's nothing beneath it, right? I mean, the one other way to think of it that is interesting is I do feel like, you know, because money today is so attached to the

Starting point is 00:20:41 nation state, right? Like really the US dollar is a bet on the United States economy as a going concern, right? So that's another way to think of it. Although I think I've gone beyond the boundaries of your question. I don't know if I just convinced the person. You might've hit 10 sentences, but that works for me. John, what do you got? Jacob, we talked a lot about the history of money. Can you talk about what do you think the future of money is and what does it look like? Is it Bitcoin? Is it not? What are your thoughts there? I mean, I got to say, so I started covering Bitcoin in, I don't know, 2011, early enough that I was shocked in the middle of the story that it went from $10 of Bitcoin to $20 of Bitcoin. I was like, wait, am I reading that

Starting point is 00:21:19 wrong? It can't be $20 of Bitcoin. And at that time, it felt more likely that Bitcoin was going to be money, like actually what people use to buy stuff, weirdly than it does today, right? Like, I feel like there's some way in which the rise in the price of Bitcoin makes it less like money, right? It's more like an asset. So it doesn't seem to me in the short term, like Bitcoin itself is going to be money. But I don't know. I mean, the big lesson for me from studying history is to be humble, right? Is to say, like, I don't know what's going to happen, but I'm not going to get cocky and say, oh, well, surely what we have today as money is going to be money forever. I do think the nation states really going to hold on tight, right? Like, I don't think countries

Starting point is 00:22:02 are going to want to give up their power over money. So it'll be interesting to see that tension, right, between the sort of private stateless Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies versus states. And, you know, we're seeing that sort of negotiation happen. And that's really going to be interesting to watch that play out. Well said. Jacob, I know that you've got a new podcast coming out, it's not just about money. Uh, you basically are talking to engineers, innovators, entrepreneurs, et cetera. Uh, how do you select who comes on? I don't know if I'm allowed to say what the first two or three episodes are, but it's like, yeah, and say the name it's called. What's your problem. It launches, uh, tomorrow launches on Thursday, March 17th.

Starting point is 00:22:42 That's a guy who knows how to promote a podcast. He said, say the name boy. So, so boy, boy is your words. Sir, say the name, please, sir. What's your problem? So when we look at episode one, it says building a drone delivery business. Episode two, the guy who made $30 million selling dog ramps. And then episode three is teaching cars to drive themselves is hard. That's a very, very different collection of people to talk to. Like, how do you come up with what you want? Is it just your personal interest or something else? Yeah. I mean, the guy selling ramps to wiener dogs is kind of a little bit out of the mainstream of the show. The basic idea of the show is like, you know, we're in this moment of incredible technological progress, as you guys know.

Starting point is 00:23:26 And a lot of that technological progress is coming from entrepreneurs, right? Coming out of the private sector. There are all these businesses that are like out at the frontier trying to figure out, you know, how do you do drone delivery? How do you get cars to drive themselves? How do you teach people a new language for free on an app? Whatever. And like, these are big, exciting questions. And so I'm trying to find people who are actually working on those things out at the frontier.

Starting point is 00:23:51 Yeah. And when you start to think about this, like what is the goal? So somebody goes ahead and listens to this. Is it to be educated, entertained both? Is it for them to be inspired to go and start, uh, their own company or build their own product? Like how do you measure what the, uh, the success looks like here? Yeah. I think the first two things you said were, were like right on it. Educated and entertained, right? Like I always wanted to be like a little bit funny or just like not too taking itself seriously, but I also want to like really get into it, right? I feel like you hear a lot of interviews with people and they're like, oh, everything's fine. It's going to be great. But the thing I really want to get at is like,

Starting point is 00:24:29 what is the actual hard problem? Like what are you actually trying to solve? Because I feel like if you can really get a sense of that, and it's for a general audience, right? It's not like I'm not like some technical person but i think if you can get a sense of that you really get a sense of like where are we right now and what is the frontier and what's coming next so it's you know understanding the world in particular through the lens of business in a way that's like somewhat light yeah that makes sense last thing i want to talk to you before we let you go uh is we can't talk about money without talking about inflation uh 7.9 percent in the united states allegedly uh now 5.7 percent uh allegedly in canada what's your take on all this like how off are the

Starting point is 00:25:07 official verse, like maybe the real experience of people, whether it's in America, Canada or elsewhere? And then what can they do? Like, does the Fed just have to hike rates to the moon before they can get this under control? Or how do you evaluate it? Yeah, I mean, you know, one of the things just like, it was amazing how low inflation was for how long, right? Like, you know, this whole sort of decade, last decade, as I was covering the economy, you know, it would be like, okay, unemployment went down some more. Oh, and deficits are still high. Like surely we're going to have inflation now, right? Nope, still 1.8%. So like kind of amazing how long it took to get here. I mean, in terms of what happens next, historically, it's a little bit grim,

Starting point is 00:25:51 right? Traditionally, what happens when inflation gets this high and persists is the Fed raises interest rates until there is a recession and inflation comes back down. So I don't know what's going to happen, but certainly if it's like what's happened before, it's the federal raise interest rates, there'll be a recession. Unemployment will go up and inflation will come down. Yeah. It, um, uh, it just feels like the world is, uh, uh, full of uncertainty chaos. Uh, it's falling apart, but it's also the safest, most prosperous time in human history. Like there's just so much cognitive dissonance, I think going on, uh, that people ultimately just throw their hands up and say, I don't know. Right. I really, really don't know. Yeah. I mean,

Starting point is 00:26:30 it's weird right like weird that's a good that's actually a very very good term it's weird yeah and then you didn't even mention the pandemic right like all this and like technological breakthroughs and like weirdly you know household savings is way up unemployment is down but like the pandemic still isn't quite over so it's super weird i i completely agree where can we send people to find you on the internet um if people want to learn more about other things you're doing or or follow along as you release more podcast episodes where can we send them yeah i'm on twitter just at jacob goldstein just my name all right that's pretty good listen to what's your problem what's your problem is there a website oh i just google it i mean pushkin.fm is uh pushkin

Starting point is 00:27:11 is the is the company that makes it but jacob goldstein what's your problem what's your problem that could go two ways what's your problem like what problem are you trying to solve or when i see my brothers in the street and i say hey bro what's your problem hey hey i'm walking Money, the true story of a made-up thing. Jacob, thank you so much for joining us. And hopefully we'll bring you back in the future. You got a lot of great ideas and I'm super excited for the podcast launch tomorrow.

Starting point is 00:27:35 Hey, thanks so much. It was great to talk with you guys. All right, see you, buddy. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition

Starting point is 00:27:47 to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry, we've got you covered. Head over to palmscryptocourse.com. we've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry it's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and i'll meet you guys for the next episode

The Pomp Podcast - #869 Money Is A Made Up Thing w/ Jacob Goldstein

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.