The Pomp Podcast - #911 Peter McCormack On How Far Bitcoin Has Come In The Last Decade

Episode Date: April 12, 2022

Peter McCormack is the host of the "What Bitcoin Did" podcast and is the new owner of the Real Bedford Football Club. In this conversation, we discuss the Bitcoin Conference, Peter's thoughts on toxic Bitcoin maximalism, concerns with El Salvador, and the progress on Real Bedford F.C. since acquiring the team. ======================= LMAX Digital - the market-leading solution for institutional crypto trading & custodial services - offers clients a regulated, transparent and secure trading environment, together with the deepest pool of crypto liquidity. LMAX Digital is also a primary price discovery venue, streaming real-time market data to the industry’s leading analytics platforms. LMAX Digital - secure, liquid, trusted. Learn more at LMAXdigital.com/pomp ======================= The Pod Pro Cover by Eight Sleep is the most advanced solution on the market for thermoregulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. Go to https://www.eightsleep.com/Pomp to check out the Pod Pro Cover and save $150 at checkout. Eight Sleep currently ships within the USA, Canada, and the UK. ======================= The world's 2nd largest crypto exchange, OKEx, has dropped the "E" to become OKX, reflecting its evolution from a traditional crypto exchange to a comprehensive, cross-platform crypto services provider. With OKX's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Explore DeFi, NFTs and play-to-earning gaming with the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Visit OKX.com to learn more. =======================

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, simply the best podcast out there. Now let's kick this thing off. Peter McCormick is the host of the What Bitcoin Did podcast and also the brand new owner of Real Bedford soccer team in the UK, which he's putting under the Bitcoin standard. In this conversation, Peter and I talk about the Bitcoin conference. We talk about toxicity in the Bitcoin community, and also regulation, Bitcoin mining, and much more. I really enjoyed this conversation with Peter, and I hope you guys enjoy it as well. Before we get into this episode, though, I first want to talk about our sponsors.

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LMAX Digital. They're secure, they're liquid, and they're trusted. Learn more at lmaxdigital.com. slash Pomp. Again, lmaxdigital.com slash Pomp. This episode is brought to you by 8Sleep. 8Sleep is the single best product that I have purchased over the last three years. It completely changed my life. I'm not joking. Pay attention. The Pod Pro Cover, which goes over your mattress by 8Sleep, is the most advanced solution on the market for thermal regulation. It pairs dynamic cooling and heating with biometric tracking. You can go to 8sleep.com slash Pomp to check out the pod pro cover and you save $150 at checkout. They currently ship within the United States,

Canada, and the UK. And I told you it changed my life. It helps me sleep deeper, helps me sleep longer. I feel much more refreshed and I have better energy. You want to know how I have relentless energy every single day? Because I sleep on an eight sleep. Seriously, go check it out. Eight sleep.com slash pump today. This episode is brought to you by OKEx. OKEx has drop the e to become okx founded in 2017 with a mission to deliver a cutting-edge crypto trading experience okx the world's second largest crypto exchange by trading volume has since expanded its scope alongside the wider industry adding features from all corners of crypto if ex is about exchange x is about intersections cross-chain cross-functional cross-platform an interoperable

future that's not siloed into isolated platforms and blockchains. The name change and the new look and feel represent OKEx's ongoing move towards decentralized finance. With OKEx's decentralized platform and Web3 wallet, MetaX, you have full custody over your crypto. Connect MetaX in your browser or within the OKEx app to explore DeFi, NFTs, and play to earning gaming, the world's most powerful crypto exchange. Whether you're just learning about crypto, you're a seasoned DeFi degen, an NFT enthusiast, or a pro trader, you're all invited to a better future. Go check it out today and let me know what you think. All right, let's get in this episode. I hope you guys enjoyed this one. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests

on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, ladies and gentlemen, I have a special treat for you. I have Mr. Peter McCormick here. How are you, sir? I'm good, man. How are you doing? I'm doing fantastic.

You're looking trim, Pomp. What did you say? You're looking trim. Oh, trim. You look like a shrimp, Bob. I'm going to show you a shrimp in a second. You're looking slim. uh yeah you know you know what the key is no alcohol uh well i haven't drank in uh over a

year now almost a year and a half but uh eat less eat no eating healthy i i eat the same amount of calories but like just eat much healthy what about sleep you work out or no i sleep yeah i work out i sleep i mean i do all the like look health is one of those weird things where like this isn't rocket science basically eat healthy right don't uh uh go multiple days without exercising make sure you sleep well and like generally try to avoid stress like you do those four things like you're probably 80 of the way i can't do one of those things what was uh what was your takeaway from the bitcoin conference and any uh insights or things you walked away surprised by uh yeah there wasn't really any huge announcements i didn't feel like not like uh not like last year

last year there's a lot of kind of big announcements but i just think the biggest takeaway for me was the amount of people there it was incredible to have what 25 30 000 people there coming for a bitcoin conference coming to talk about bitcoin uh the the fact that it just keeps growing every year i think it's a really good sign where we're going um no surprises really um i thought what jack announced is pretty cool i think that's one of those things that doesn't feel like a big announcement but when you really look into it's quite a big deal i'd like to understand more about um more about that so i'll talk to him at some point i also think you look at the guests you know uh we had some big guests last year but now you've got jordan peterson there

eric weinstein's there odell beckham jr there's aaron rogers it's crazy yeah and you know these people i mean some especially someone like aaron rogers you know he isn't just there for the sake of being there he understands bitcoin he invests in bitcoin companies so uh and it's very based yeah yeah he's very good but it's just it's clearly breaking out now into an even bigger mainstream and is that a good thing or a bad thing i mean what are we trying to achieve here um sell money for everyone then it's a good thing because more people are aware it's becoming more acceptable i also think it's um we're starting to get a real kind of regulatory protection now because so many people hold bitcoin you're seeing that shift with politicians now whereby actually you know

politicians really they're just hunting for votes they don't really stand for much and the game theory works out that so many people have bitcoin now that you're starting to see a lot of politicians come in who are pro bitcoin i mean you probably have the same as me everyone wants to try and come on your show oh i'm pro bitcoin can i come on your show and what's your policy like do you want to do politicians or no uh not for the politicians sake if they're interesting and they've got something cool i'd have senator lumbers on because i know she's a bitcoiner yeah i know it's so you you try to put some sort of test on like do they actually understand it or or are they just kind of grandstanding?

Case by case. I would have Ted Cruz on, because I think he's kind of put himself out there. I do case by case as well. Yeah, it's case by case. Most of the others, we've done one, and we do a second one, it's exactly the same interview. And actually, when you dig in,

most of them don't really understand Bitcoin. I think Eric Adams is a great example in New York of how you can get rug pulled on Bitcoin. I mean, he came out as a pro-Bitcoin guy, and then once he gets in power, he starts chatting bullshit. Is Eric Adams the biggest disappointment in the intersection of politics and Bitcoin so far?

Absolutely. I mean, he rug pulled everyone. I think he's a disgrace. I can't see any change in New York since he's come in. What do you mean that he rug pulled everyone? Well, he said he was pro-Bitcoin. I think he even had Bitcoin in his profile. He said he was going to accept his salary.

He's going to take three paychecks in Bitcoin. And then he just starts to attack Bitcoin mining straight away. And so I just think he's a disappointment. He didn't understand Bitcoin. he's full of shit so yeah he's a disappointment but I think there'll be plenty more like this but I think that will work against them as well

if you're going to use Bitcoin as a way to get votes and you're going to rug pull the Bitcoiners that's not going to end well for you do you think we'll get to a point where being pro-Bitcoin is a requirement for these politicians running for office I think in red states it already is I think you're already there in red states

it'll be interesting to see what happens in the blue states I know you had Ro Khanna run I think one of the most important things for me right now in Bitcoin is that Bitcoin doesn't become some kind of partisan issue and that's really important now and you can certainly see it going that direction.

Elizabeth Warren is not particularly helping the cause at the moment with her FUD that she's spreading about Bitcoin. So I think it's very easy to engage with Republicans who are pro-Bitcoin. I think actually what's more important now is where you actually talk to Democrat politicians and try and convince them and convert them.

So actually that's a good point. If a Democrat wanted to come on, I'm more likely to take them than a Republican now because I really want to see if they do understand this. And we're about to go through the same in the UK. We've had a very, the Europe itself has been very anti, let's say crypto broadly. I know you cover shit coins here.

We'll get into it. Europe has been very anti-crypto, not pro-crypto at all. And I think the UK has finally realized now that we're out of the EU, this is an opportunity for the uk and rishi suna actually said you know we need to understand and accept uh crypto we want to be the center of the world for crypto i think they're a bit late for that um and they're behind el salvador already uh let alone is that the thing that they should try to do right like if i was a politician do i want to be the center or should i actually just optimize for let's get in the game right exactly that's what to me it's like that like

when you say we want to be the capital of uh the bitcoin industry that feels maybe there's two to three places in the world right now that have a shot at that i would say texas has a shot at that right i would say el salvador has a shot at that and maybe we could debate you know two or three other cities right miami maybe but it feels like without the mining uh or without kind of going all in it's hard to do um but the uk could be the center of europe exactly like that's a more obtainable goal, then we somehow are going to convince everyone to give up where they are and move to Europe.

Look where all the Bitcoin companies are. The majority are in the US. You've got a few scattered around. You've got Ledger in France, etc. HODL, HODL, I can't remember exactly where they are in Europe, but the majority is here in the US. A lot of the big exchanges and some out in Asia and then some on some weird

tax beneficial islands. But I think what the UK needs to do is just be pro-Bitcoin, even pro-crypto. I think it's hard to be pro-crypto and pro-Bitcoin and anti-crypto. But I just think they need to create an environment where people can buy, trade

and build businesses with cryptocurrencies. And that's all they need to do to begin with. So I think we're starting to see that. Matt Hancock has been pro-crypto and there's like three or four others who have been. And Rishi Sunak said he is. So we've got to see whether they are real about this or whether

it's just going to be another rug pull. But hopefully hopefully UK will. What's your take on the toxic crew in terms of Bitcoin? One of the things we were talking with Udi earlier was 87% of Bitcoiners, according to Grayscale's Bitcoin

Investor Study, report that they own Bitcoin plus some other asset. Could be stable coins, could be whatever. 13% report that they just own Bitcoin. That's the only thing they own. When you look at that, it used to be 100% of people owned just Bitcoin. There was no other asset that they could own.

So just by default, it was you're 100 bitcoin if you're in uh crypto uh it is likely we were saying that the percentage of people who just own bitcoin and nothing else will continue to dwindle down over time because you now get more of the mainstream adoption and and uh the the people who are participating are different and they just maybe they don't understand some aspects of finance or the economies maybe it's they want diversification for whatever reason is that good or bad and like how do you think about you know the right way to kind of approach these people is it to take more of like this like hard line in the sand and i think uh people would use from an endearing standpoint the toxic you know

approach versus uh maybe having to change the way we communicate yeah so it's i think about this a lot a lot actually uh with regards to the show because i actually think there's two areas of toxicity which i kind of kind of bounce against there's the bitcoin versus crypto toxicity but i also think there is this uh libertarian toxic community which i'm starting to bump against as well interesting okay explain and i think they're two different different things so firstly on the bitcoin versus crypto i think the number of bitcoin maxis is a growing number but as a percentage of crypto people it's a decreasing number oh interesting so the aggregate number of bitcoin maximalists we're adding more bitcoin maximalist every single year which i would agree

with yeah but it's not keeping pace with the number of people who are coming into quote unquote crypto yeah and i do you know what four years ago this four five years ago this served a really important purpose we had massive attacks on bitcoin with bitcoin cash the node operators saved bitcoin yeah absolutely it was super important i i think those those type of attacks are dead now because every every single one is lost and so and i still think that group of people exists to defend it but i also think they've got better defenders as well in that they've got serious influential players such as michael saylor uh and you've got massive companies that like and I dig as well, that if there was ever an attack

like that now, you could really rally the troops to protect it. So that doesn't worry me anymore. I also think shouting at people just doesn't work. I think sometimes it's counterproductive. I think yelling and telling people what they can and can't do or shouldn't do just doesn't help.

I think it's a bit like if you, I mean, if you have a child. That makes you a snowflake though, like you and I are snowflakes because we don't want to yell at people. Look, there's a reality, right? Bitcoin might not have mass adoption as a mass awareness you you don't go anywhere now and mention bitcoin and people go well what the hell is that they're like oh i've heard about that or tell me about that or i should

have bought some of that they've heard of the brand they may not understand how it works or why it's important but they've at least heard of this trillion dollar asset that's somewhere out there yeah so like it's people are aware of it everywhere now um and a bit like parenting you never get anywhere by shouting at a child you think you do but you never do actually you you get somewhere by showing and educating like i mean i don't own any uh crypto outside of bitcoin i've got no intention to buy any um because i don't have a use for it i have a use for bitcoin so i've avoided avoided that but at the same time i'm i'm like i might talk about i might call them shit coins but i don't really talk about it anymore i'm just i find it boring honestly i

just it's just relentless and i also think sometimes it gets a bit embarrassing um i you know as a when you see someone from the mainstream mention bitcoin and come out with a really bad take and i've been guilty of this myself pomp but you click on it and and the way the twitter algorithm works you see all the people you follow first this is massive dog part of have fun staying poor you're an idiot you don't know shit and then occasionally you'll get a really good nuanced reply and someone like sailor's great at this he'll go in and give a really good nuanced reply why someone should care about this and i i think for bitcoin to be taken seriously sometimes you have to have to have that more nuanced or adult conversation and then you have to look at all the

people who get invited on you know cnbc fox whatever there's people who can have a serious that whole conversation about these things it's not people yelling at people i mean i think safety is a great example he wrote a super important book but but the way he acts his toxic approach to people online that everyone i disagree with i'm going to block call a moron or even blocking people who like posts that criticize him i mean he's the that to me is the example of a real snowflake who can't handle any kind of criticism but he wrote the biggest book in bitcoin like he could be somebody on all the main tv stations uh educating people about this he could be one of the biggest names but when you went to the conference right he's like number three on the

board the um like uh or number two on the board of um the poster and you go to his talk and he's still giving the same boring powerpoint presentation from three years ago and the room's half empty so people like that being all toxic and unable to handle criticism and explain these in a nuanced way they're going to get marginalized and just become irrelevant and what's going to happen is someone like yourself who can have a mature conversation about this is going to continue to grow so i i think the maximus is super important but i i think the toxic thing just starts to look more like uh excuse me for saying this because it got you in trouble before but kind of tends to look a little bit like an extreme group now like a fringe extreme extreme group it

absolutely is like i think that's part of it so a couple things one on uh on safety and uh i'm reading the fiat standard fantastic book so he's two for two i think on on the book writing uh and uh, I may actually disagree with you on this. I don't, I don't know. I'd have to think more about it. And maybe it's just because, uh, I don't spend as much time talking to him as, uh, other people do, but, uh, I haven't seen a lot of that. So like, if it's happening, then, you know, it's going to have whatever impact it has. Uh, but I've always thought of him more from like a, uh, uh, an economist standpoint. And, um, in some weird way, I think actually in the book, he may say he's uh or like the title is like he's an economist or whatever um but i think that

there's also a difference of like economists like they debate each other all the time and like that's part of this conversation is like what's debate versus what's like you know the equivalent of me and my brothers when we're growing up like beating each other up right like just because we are like we get angry um and so i think like some of that nuance is in there um and we got to figure out like where is the line because there's not like a clear hey do this don't do this in terms of uh discourse but the part that i do agree with you on is when you think about 13 of bitcoiners own just bitcoin i think that is a signal towards how uh the percentages are working right that's that's going to get smaller and smaller over time whether that means that the 87 are right or not

like they could all just be dumping their money losing money and like the free market will clean them out and eventually they'll all you know come home to bitcoin right like that's for sure a possibility but i think that there's this difference between uh what is in my opinion intellectual laziness right the reason why sailor is so good is because he has thought long and hard about these topics he understands the nuance he is diplomatic you could literally bring him on live television and you could say the most horrid shit to him and he still will say well i don't know anything really about that you know my focus is on bitcoin but like he is the utmost professional and i would argue that he's now top five top 10 most influential people in bitcoin right in terms

of uh people want to know his opinion on certain aspects uh we have to be careful with that though agree that with be careful but i'm just saying like if you evaluate you were to say hey who are the the 10 most influential people right i think he would be in that top 10 whether that's good or bad that we have influential people is a separate issue but he'd be in the top 10 and so over time that top 10 how many of them are going to be more or what would be labeled as like the toxic component versus not i actually don't think and what we're saying earlier is we're going to rebrand toxic that terminology to now it's just asshole yeah well right and like being an asshole usually doesn't isn't a successful strategy in any aspect of life but i also think they're super important

like so marty bent mutual friend we both uh we both know marty well me and him essentially do the same job but come in completely different directions and we completely disagree on a number of things but i think that's also super useful because we learn from each other well i definitely learn from him i don't know if he does from me you know but you get that different appreciation do you think he's he falls in the toxic uh group so i would say a little bit i think a little bit but he's not an abusive toxic so there's okay now we're getting to the yeah that's Because you get the toxic people who have their principles and their firm about them.

And I absolutely respect that about Marty. Yes, I think that's a principle. That's the terminology I would use. I think he's very principled and he's unwilling to waver from those principles. He's very direct. But I don't think that he goes after people in the crypto community and shames people

and maybe abusive is a good... Well, those people are just morons. I mean, they're people who've just, you know, probably had a rough upbringing, got terrible parents and have no idea to deal with civility and the only thing they get out of life is going online to abuse people and get likes. I mean, they're kind of hard to take seriously

and I don't think they're actually that influential. I think it's a very niche group of just absolute morons. So I don't care about those. Forget those super toxic people. They probably own, the kind of people probably don't own very much Bitcoin, haven't been around very long and you can't see who they are.

It's very hard to take someone serious when they're a nymph. So I don't worry about them. I'm thinking more of the toxic maximalists who kind of bridge, like the halfway between them and Mahdi. Like what's the deal with those guys? Where are they going?

It's funny because I don't, do you ever read your YouTube comments? I stop reading YouTube. I read Twitter though. And I may stop. Are you completely off Twitter now? No, I mean, I'll go in, I'll have a look and anything I think is important, I'll retweet.

But I've spent, I've probably cut my time down to like half an hour to an hour a day when it used to be like hours. I am definitely spending lesser and lesser time reading the comments, which is unfortunate because I used to learn quite a bit from there, but it's just overrun with nonsense. Yes, nonsense and morals.

Half of it's spam too, right? So that's another issue. So yeah, YouTube, we don't allow any comment. All comments are approved because of the spam. So yeah, they have to get approved. And there's a lot I learn from it and there's a lot I don't take from it. And what I've noticed, there are,

so when I talked to you about the toxic, I think you've got the toxic libertarians now. so i've met some really smart libertarians who happy to debate anything and then you've got the libertarians who are uh western liberal democracy libertarians living in their comfortable life calling everyone a status cuck who thinks that maybe you know ideas of no state or a small state comes with risk and burning all downs comes with risk i think that's a different toxic community now which i understand why it comes to exist but at the same time i think it it really lacks like they all call me a dummy and a status cup but actually i've thought through this a lot i've

read a lot i'm trying to understand the ideas of everything from an anarchic anarcho-capitalist to a minimum uh minicus and i think that's important to understand because a lot of this has been attached to bitcoin and i don't see this world that they see is that when we move to a bitcoin standard there'll be no government we're we're all going to have uh private independent courts to arbitrate between and protect our property rights uh everything will be based on sounds cool guns and yelp reviews i think it sounds terrible i think we've fought for hundreds of years to have freedoms in the countries like the us and the uk and we have some of the best property rights in the world um and you can see what happened when you don't have freedom other places in the world

i'm yet to meet uh like a chinese libertarian i think most of these people just want democracy and and the funniest one i find is like the the scandinavian libertarians i'm like you live in the best place in the world what you want to burn this state down what because you have to pay us some tax towards universal health care and education you fucking stupid like hundreds of years people thought like before wars for hundreds of years to have this like do you really understand the consequences of what you're you're saying have you really thought this through and i think that's the toxic side that i'm bumping up against now is that uh people coming into bitcoin starting to think well hold on to to be a bitcoin i have to only eat meat i want to burn down the state and

i've got to get uh i've got to get a gun and you know there's going to be no social safety net for the poorest and weakest in society and we're going to get rid of all civil liberties and everything we've done to improve uh equality in the world we're gonna get rid of all of that and survive on yelp reviews and and and have guns to defend i think it's fucking moronic and that's the bit of bitcoin i really hate yelp reviews it's the future yelp reviews and guns what questions do you guys have that's amazing um i love that what uh what do you think is the biggest takeaway from the conference i guess going back towards that like looking into the future what do you think is going to be the headline if we're if we come back here in a year of what the past year what

happen right obviously we saw a lot over the last year i think some people are are expecting uh with what happened in canada and what's happened in russia and ukraine some of that to take hold but is there anything in particular you're thinking like a year from now we're going to look back on i think it's really important i mean selfishly i just hope the uk uh has a much more open policy for bitcoin that for me is really important i i come here every six weeks to work because bitcoin happens there's nothing there's nothing happening in the uk i'm i've done like five interviews six interviews in the uk 450 odd here i i would love to have what you've got here in the uk i'd love people to come there but there's very little so why do you think that is um i i think

because we aren't a as a country we don't have the same kind of approach to freedom and property rights that you'd hear you do have in the us and like freedom is like that uh uh constitutional framework that you have that we don't have you know it just doesn't exist and uh we don't have that political competition that you have by the ability to move states. We don't have that. Whether you live in Manchester or London or Bedford, you have the same stupid rules.

We have no protection of speech. It's just the way we are. I also just, well, I don't know why it is, but whatever it is, we don't have it. Now we've broken away from the EU, we have this opportunity. So me, selfishly, that's what I hope. That's one of the biggest things

I would like to see next year. Apart from that, I don't know. I want Bitcoin to get really boring. I want it to be super boring. Announcements don't mean as much. Don't mean as much, yeah. Because that would signal that there's more mainstream adoption, more decentralized control, less influential folks.

How many gold announcements do you hear? None. It's just a thing. You want Bitcoin to just be a thing. Just accept it. Let's forget about it. It's just part of society. I follow Peter Schiff and sometimes he tweets gold went up half a percent. Yeah, and nobody cares.

And I mean, that's the point we want to get to because that's the point we've won. Once Bitcoin is, once nobody cares about it, nobody wants to talk about it, announcements don't matter, then we've won. Now, we're a long way from that, but that's what I hope to do. I hope to get to the point

where my show isn't a Bitcoin show, it's just a show. Because that means there's nothing that interesting to talk about. Yeah. And we won. What's your opinion on Doquan, Terra, backing the stablecoin with Bitcoin?

Do you know, it's one of the things I haven't looked too much into. And I know there's been some criticism of it. Your good buddy Corey was criticizing it. And I just, honestly, I know a little about it. All I've seen is, because I'm not on Twitter that much anymore, I don't tend to see this stuff,

but I've just seen people saying some shitcoin is buying a load of Bitcoin. For me, it's just more people buying Bitcoin, cool. Great, let's move on. Who else is buying Bitcoin? Cool, let's move on. Educate me, tell me about it. What's the deal?

I think that it's a situation where they're going to back the stable coin with Bitcoin, right? Or put Bitcoin in their reserves, whether the terminology backed or not, you should use as one of the debate points. But they've got $3 billion in their reserves of a stable coin and they're going to buy Bitcoin with it. Where did they get that $3 billion from?

People come in and they want the stable coin. So they have $100 to $200 million a day of demand. So people say, hey, give me UST, which is a stable coin. similar to how people go to USDC or GUSD or whatever and that money sits in a reserve or a treasury and so he's saying hey rather than keep this in cash or their altcoin or any of that other stuff he says we're going to operate on a Bitcoin standard

like we think Bitcoin is the most pristine collateral in the world direct quote from him right and so what we're going to do is we're going to convert all of our reserves to Bitcoin so they're basically printing their own Bitcoin treasury well what they're doing it well there's two ways to think about it right is if you think of usdc right what do people do they come in and they say hey will you issue me your usdc and they say yes you have to buy it from us essentially and one dollar buys one dollar of the stable coin and then they sit with the u.s dollars in their reserves and they leave it in cash right and

then you take the stable coin and you go do whatever you're going to do with it at some point you can come back and redeem back your dollars but uh you purchase and i'll put that kind of an air quotes, you purchase the stable coin because you gave them a dollar, they gave you $1 worth of stable coins. What these guys are doing is very similar, except you're not purchasing it with US dollars, you're purchasing it with their altcoin, and then they issue it to you. So you still purchase it. But the reserves that sit there, some of it was in stable coin, some of it was in their altcoin. And then now they're just saying, listen, people who wanted our stable coin that they purchased from us, those reserves, we're going to move on to a Bitcoin

standard is there all coin a claim on the bitcoin this is where more debate right is uh technically the altcoin is not uh what people are end up holding they're holding the stable coin and so the question would be can you take that stable coin and come back to them and say give me the value for the stable coin can you basically redeem where's the value in the old coin what's why i don't understand where the values come from that there is a big debate there and i wouldn't and here's the thing is i wouldn't say i don't own that coin right i don't own uh ust etc i'm a pure spec uh spectator in watching this occur uh i don't own the coin because one i don't know enough about it and two i don't necessarily think that it has some you know immense value that would make

me go and and choose it over bitcoin but i do find it fascinating that you now have what many people historically in the bitcoin community would have said uh that's no good we don't like that you know whatever adopting the bitcoin standard and so my thought process the reason why i'm intellectually interested in this is uh michael saylor created the playbook for public companies to adopt the bitcoin standard if these guys are successful big if still risk involved the whole nine yards if they are successful they will create the playbook but not just for stable coins to adopt the bitcoin standard i think that they will showcase a playbook for central banks and fiat currencies to adopt a bitcoin standard as well because the u.s dollar as they issue it with

they have reserves those reserves right now right are no different frankly many people in bitcoin like those are shit coins right sitting in the federal reserve it makes me think of two things okay firstly uh firstly it makes me think of block one who had a very inventive way of claiming, what's it, 120,000 Bitcoin? Their $4 billion ICO, which they converted to Bitcoin. Suddenly they have a fund with 120,000 Bitcoin in it. That was, to me, just a complete and absolute scam. So it makes me think of that.

So therefore, they've just found a new inventive way to claim a load of Bitcoin. But hold on a second. So I think this is another key piece to it. There's a lot of companies in Bitcoin and not in Bitcoin who sell all sorts of products and services right and i would argue that uh there's a number of companies who claim to be bitcoin companies they sell equity to investors and then they turn around they buy bitcoin yeah but equity is different from a shit coin well here's where it gets into it

right is uh when you start to look at it there's a legal element to it but you could also argue that they're both shit coins yeah but if you sell me your shit equity right and you got a shitty company and you sell me equity and as an investor and you essentially dupe me into giving you money for your equity that ends up being worthless and then you take my money and you buy bitcoin there's a difference in legal what is my the claim right but i think those things are more similar than not i don't buy it but i tell you why i don't buy it because you should do your research and see what my company's doing what my cash flow is what my balance sheet is therefore you understand what the value of my company is and potential dividends and future exit you can't tell me the value of

this altcoin what do you mean well so the old what is the value i can tell you the value of my company i can say there's my podcast here you go pump here's my podcast here's my growth trajectory here's my revenue model for my sponsors my plan is to exit in four years for this price and while i'm doing that you get an x percent return on as a dividend each year you can audit that and you can speak to my accountant so you know what the equity is worth you can do your own research into that if i do so be it but generally speaking you can you can do your own research what is the value in the altcoin let's see here's the thing is they they provide all that same information i think so tell me now what is the value what's the value for the altcoin what

do i get for it so each one of them is different right which also equity is different the point being that when you look at it is somebody's creating an asset and they're using that asset to acquire more bitcoin sailors doing it with equity and debt right private companies do it with equity also they do it from their cash flows these altcoins are the same thing i'm not arguing that any of them are worth buying etc what i'm saying is structurally they're all doing the same it's a game right and what is the game acquire as much bitcoin as possible yeah of course but but it's i think it's unless you're a theranos it's very hard to suddenly create something that brings in billions to go and buy bitcoin but something somehow people have managed to do it with shit

cause i don't know it just it just sounds a bit shady but the other thing the other question i Do we think that altcoins or companies own more Bitcoin in the private market, like Bitcoin companies? You know what, that's a good question. I don't know. There's only two that I know that own billions, which would be Block.One and Terra. They now own over a billion.

But I think those are the only two. Tron, did he buy a shit ton? Apparently he's got a shit ton. Okay, so there's basically three that you could say, hey, they bought a bunch. What also happens, like if Bitcoin, like Arthur Hayes is thinking there's a lot of risk in the market with bitcoin now if bitcoin suddenly sunk to 20k does that mean that their

their uh stable coin is no longer fully backed well so this is the whole thing is they never they uh them specifically but then we can talk about all stable coins they're not claiming that it's fully backed they're not saying hey we're gonna back one to one what they're actually doing is they're only uh backing about 30 40 percent of it and over time as bitcoin over a long period of time it ends up being over collateralized see this is i mean this is where it sounds super sketchy they're basically saying give us some money and we'll give you a printed coin in return and we'll kind of gamble away that money how we want so this is yeah this is part of the risk right this is this is where people end up saying now at the same time to throw another wrench into

it is previously it was an algorithmic stable coin yeah right so basically their argument is like hey algorithmic stable coin we don't think that's the best path forward we don't think it's super sustainable there's risk there's there's all these issues and so instead we think a bit a one backed by bitcoin is better so you end up getting in this very nuanced situation Can I tell you something funny? I've never used a stable coin. Never? You never used USDC, nothing? Never used any of them.

Just never had a need. All I've ever done is buy Bitcoin and sell Bitcoin. I've hardly sold any. But in the UK, they have the tax ramifications just like in the US, right? You get capital gains tax if you spend Bitcoin? You do if you spend or sell it, but I've only ever sold a very small amount.

And the only time I ever really did that was to buy my son a car. That was it. I just stack and hold, and I transfer money in a buy. Actually, I don't even need to transfer money in a buy anymore. Do you pay employees in Bitcoin? I do bonuses in Bitcoin.

So basically you pay the bonuses and you just take the tax. Do people you work with on your show pay in Bitcoin or US dollar? See, that's how I stack now. So my sponsors, I would say I get about 20-25% in Bitcoin and that's pure margin, so I just keep the Bitcoin. That's the way I stack now. And I think I've got a, well I know I've got a, uh a fortnightly buy in gemini as well just on their um dca just just for the sake i think i

said that at the start just keep buying just keep ticking over just keep looking over yeah what's your take on uh uh el salvador you've been a couple times now uh five or six times now okay yeah what's your general read um hmm you don't sound super uh positive uh i think there's like that careful about like i've interviewed the president twice now i'd like to interview him a third time but i'd never want to compromise what i would like to say to get that third interview uh i also was super careful if things go bad there that we like i as an individual we as a group didn't give him too easy a time i think he's in a really tricky position in some ways um the accusations came out recently that there were secret meetings within the prisons within

with the gangs to try and reduce violence now so like that this was made out to be some kind of like huge scandal uh yet the murder rate throws a significant drop and so in my mind i was like well is this is this really that bad a thing to sit down with i mean what happened to new york like basically what happened in new york in the 80s with like criminals yeah i'll put that as whatever yeah and did a deal and there was a compromise and and i know i've seen some of things they were asking for they wanted better uh access in the prisons they wanted uh better treatment in the prisons but also some people wanted jobs they were actually actually saying can you get gang members jobs i mean you know this does come down to economic opportunity

in the end what happened in new york in the 80s you might know better than me when is it was it giuliani reduced the crime or was it well giuliani was uh was a unique situation he's the guy who uh if i remember correctly started stop and frisk which was uh basically cops could walk down the street and just discriminate and say like you look like a criminal today get your hands against the wall and like we get to pat you down uh as you can imagine that does stop crime right uh it also infringes on uh the individual liberties wasn't there like a deal done with the mafia to help clean up new york i think that was pre-juliani yeah well i think the big thing basically was uh they they being the mafia i think looked at

themselves as a business that ends up engaging in violence to carry out a lot of the business and also which is very interesting they wore suits and ties they had a lot of money like like they're like there's this whole element of yes they were definitely breaking the law is very well documented uh they sounded like you as well but well they are italian uh they drove they drove nice cars had their private clubs the whole thing um but i i do find it interesting like here's my point so what the point i was trying to make is that this uh this these articles came out and they were showing secret videos of meetings between the gangs and potentially the administration to do a deal with the gangs to reduce the murder rate if you go and check the charts there's been a

massive drop in the murder rate in el salvador uh there was a a recent bump i think it was 86 murders in one day which was um you know highly unusual recently for el salvador and so he's now started to clamp down on the gangs and now he's being accused of infringing on civil rights and it feels like people want to absolutely clean administration which won't deal with the gangs but does everything in the most perfect uh way protects the complete human rights the civil rights of everyone who's possibly been arrested now i think that's a super complex job to do in a country like El Salvador. And what I think really is going on here is that El Salvador has become an outlier. They are somebody who's trying to

protect themselves from the US dollar debasement. And they're doing this project with Bitcoin, which does come with risks. And I think there are people who are unhappy about this, and they're doing anything to attack his administration. At the same time, if this does turn into a car crash, if they become protests and he becomes a little bit more dictatorial, this isn't going to be great for Bitcoin either so I think it's a tricky situation there's a lot of complex problems

that I certainly don't understand enough about I think I think as Bitcoiners we need to support the people of Bitcoin who want Bitcoin, help them understand it help them use it but we should hold a critical eye to the administration That's a very nuanced

I think fair approach to it because it's not all good, it's not all bad same could be said about every government in the world which is not a conversation most people want to have Uh, the other thing that would be interesting as a thought exercise is, uh, would the United States be better off if we had those conversations with gangs, bad actors, et cetera. I could see a very strong argument for absolutely not. We should not do that. That, you know, don't negotiate with terrorists, you know, type approach that the United States has held on the international

stage for a long time. Uh, but there would probably be a strong argument as well of like, listen, if you understand why somebody is doing something and you can take measures that correct that don't involve corruption and kind of all the bad stuff, wouldn't that be a good thing? The US negotiates with terrorists every day. They just negotiate with terrorist states. It's just, I mean, we have to be honest about this.

You have to be completely honest. Well, let's go down this rabbit hole. Go ahead. I mean, look, the eyes of the world are currently on Ukraine and Russia. But for the last, what, eight years, Saudi Arabia has been involved in an absolutely horrific war in Yemen

where they created a blockade which has led to a famine and the starvation of tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of people. The Saudi state murdered a journalist, Khashoggi. This is a terrorist state. There's no other way of describing it. And hopefully I'm not important enough to have my own head cut off for saying this, but that is a terrorist state and the U.S. negotiates with that state. There's plenty of examples around the world

where the U.S. negotiates with what are really just terrorist states. dictatorships that that finance terrorist operations a terrorist state so you keep your friends closer your enemies closer sometimes you have to work with people if the net outcome is better you have to negotiate for a better net outcome and i don't think that is the worst scenario in the world if if uh bukele wants to negotiate with the gangs and that reduces gang violence and creates new economic opportunity so those in the gangs don't have to sell drugs and actually can go to work and no money for their family if the net outcome is uh people leaving gangs unless people dying maybe that is that is a situation worth doing it's like what are you

optimizing for yeah exactly you know um but most of this comes down to economic opportunity gangs tend to exist in zones where there are uh where there are family breakups or a lack of uh fathers in the home people tend to attach themselves to gangs or well the gang is a business

but it's a business and a family yeah yeah yeah yeah I'll praise those both but most people just want economic opportunity yep

just invest in economic opportunity did you watch the 60 minutes thing I haven't watched the whole thing yet I watched it only played last night but I did see a clip

and they are talking to obviously they've got Michael Peterson they've got Jack Mallers but I'm going to forget the one gentleman's name

but he was Michael Peterson uh no um he is uh more of a he's a salvadorian adult not chimbera i'm gonna forget who it was uh but then he was there with a salvadorian looks like a teenager and uh i just saw one you know kind of quick clip and uh the journalist was basically asking like you know uh why is this so important and the kid was like uh my entire life basically was focused on like do just enough to be successful so that i can get out right and like go pursue jobs or economic opportunity elsewhere and from the short clip again i don't have all the context on it but it seemed like

they were positioning it from like a hey bitcoin provides this hope and this economic opportunity here and so if this works which again there's work to be done uh but if it does work now this kid and all of his peers won't have to just try to leave they actually may have an economic opportunity to stay and like i think that's what bitcoin has been saying for a long time right and if it works and el salvador takes their double digit gdp growth their 30 increase in tourism etc and they begin to compound that there's a lot of people around the world saying hey we need to learn about this that double digit growth in gdp was that a covid bounce back or was that genuine growth because it's really i felt like uh figures would be a massage there when

actually every single country in the world that had a covid dip that had a double digit digit economic gdp growth so from just uh this is what was said to start uh el salvador's gdp grew 10.3 percent in 2021 that comes uh bukele tweeted it right how much did it drop in 2020 though so let's take that as a fact um and he said that and it now exports uh grew 13 percent this january compared to january of 2021 uh and are we looking at another double digit gdp growth this year by the way el salvador never had a double digit gdp growth before 2021 so never happened before now they have double digit gdp uh i think that we saw in the united states president biden is posting things like you know i created more jobs than any president in history

in the first six months of my presidency whatever uh 10.3 never happened before in el salvador so politicians are going to take credit of course regardless of what country you're in whatever uh i have no doubt that there is some base effect uh you know contribution how do we determine what that i think it's tiny right now and honestly i think it's like you think gdp growth is tiny as a result of the of the bitcoin project almost tourism's up 30 percent uh okay according to them yeah compared compared to where but again is it compared to 2020 when no one could travel because we couldn't fly because of covid we you know politicians will take any number and massage it correct uh let's see of el salvador economy so the tourism percent of el salvador's economy

uh in 2019 the expenditure of inbound tourism in el salvador uh grew by six percent so the year before covid the growth rate was six percent uh increase and uh that that led to tourism being the nation's highest share of gdp in the last decade so that was kind of a banner year of growth whatever now 30 to your point is a massive increase there's no way you can attribute that to one single thing well how many people have gone there because of bitcoin probably like a thousand people so either their tourism was shit before or the figures would be a massage i i just i would i would just want to like check through those numbers first like every bitcoiner i know has made their pilgrimage pretty much most people have been down there but that's not a lot of people

I mean, El Zonte itself, they haven't got a huge infrastructure for supporting that huge influx of tourists. I think there has been an increase, and I recommend people go. I would want to look at those numbers critically before attributing this to Bitcoin. I think the benefits of the Bitcoin project will probably be coming in four to eight years when that treasury they've got has done a 5, 10x,

and suddenly they've got money to invest in infrastructure. And I think if you can reduce crime at the same time, and you can invest in infrastructure, then you will see that big boost in tourism like i think they're going in the right direction and i think they're going and i think it's moving fast at the same time i would be careful just with those numbers myself personally i think it's interesting um that they have the same obstacles and challenges that we have here in the u.s right like if from from a economic data can be manipulated to tell whatever story you want it to tell and uh pump if you uh if you

were going to a sponsor you could say here here's my downloads they're up 10 on last month or here are my downloads they're up 300 on last year i mean we all have statistics and we know how to use them for 67 of all numbers are made up right i mean i think yours probably a bit higher i know one stat that is true what i have the number one bitcoin podcast what i'm not going to get into a debate on uh monthly downloads but uh peter i got a question we were talking about tourism and all that being up big but how much do you and how much weight do you put on the fact that just el salvador as a country is their negative on their the bitcoin that they bought personally and they're holding how much like do you attribute to

that i mean that bitcoin being negative doesn't matter now you know they've done their own version of a dca right a million dollar cost averaging whatever they're doing that that we all know just forget that just wait later on i'll tell you what i think it will be super interesting el salvador and i think why economic uh uh the gdp will grow an economic opportunity will grow i'll give you one example when i was there last time making a film i went to get a tattoo i got this tattoo here and we went down to what is essentially a red zone where uh they run by the gangs and we went down with actually with armed guards to just for uh obvious protection but when i got down there i you know i spoke to the tattooist and i was interviewing him at the same

time and I was like how have things changed and he said before Bukele was in power you couldn't walk out with your phone you couldn't use your phone in public because someone would come along and snatch it he said now you can use it you can take photos so I think this whole negotiating with the gangs is a good thing because what ends up happening is people feel a bit freer there's probably less extortion more opportunities to create jobs more opportunity to grow so I actually think I think clamping down on the gangs in the short term is going to have a way bigger impact on GDP than Bitcoin. I think the Bitcoin thing

is going to take time. I think it's going to take a lot longer than people expect. I mean, whilst you can pay in Starbucks and McDonald's, that's super cool. Honestly, how many people are actually doing it? I bet you can go to a Starbucks and they'll say, oh, we haven't had one for a week or two weeks. I could be wrong. Maybe they're having five a day, but I just don't

really think it's that big a thing at the moment. But like what Jack Mallers announced, the infrastructure's there ready for when people want to use it, which is super cool. I think the things Bukele is doing outside of Bitcoin in the short term

is super important I think the Bitcoin stuff is super important long term you know as they took the brave step of being the first country

once we get a second third fifth tenth twentieth that's going to compound the benefits they have for buying and holding

Bitcoin early but I don't see Bitcoin driving this huge increase in GDP itself I just don't and I could be wrong

and someone might have some stats to prove me wrong I have one last question topic discussion point for you and then I'll let you out of Best Business Show Jail

which is Real Bedford what's going on with Bitcoin Standard well we're coming towards the end of the season we've got three games to go

we're not going to make the playoffs sadly well we took over the team too late I mean we've I'd have to check I think we've had the team

for like 12 games how many games in a season there's like 38 it's like a third of the season yeah maybe a bit longer than that if you look at our points per game I think if we'd had them from the start

we probably would have made it but it is what it is we always said this season would be a bonus if we can make the playoffs next season the goal is one thing only promotion and the new managers that we would appoint it would be very much a

point to them that we have an expectation with our budgets that like nothing but top is acceptable i met somebody i don't know if i'm allowed to say this yet uh there's an individual that works at spiral is this like a known public yeah this is okay all right he's our bitcoin director so he he comes up to me at the conference and he's like you know i work at spiral uh i'm bitcoin director and i was like i told peter mccormick i'm not cheering for that team until i get to go on the field and he goes ah that's funny i am playing yeah he's in the team and i was like wait what and he was like yeah he's like and we're gonna bring high quality

talent to the team and like he was like people will come play if like me and my friends play or whatever and so i went i looked and i was like oh shit like like he's actually going to be playing in the games so we've we've got a very credible and serious plan to take this team from what is essentially the bottom of the english pyramid into the premier league and nobody in football believes us and they think we're morons but our plan is i can get behind that is a highly credible plan because it's a plan based on raising money holding that in bitcoin that we do not need to touch for eight to ten years okay while that's happening is that we can grow the team by having an international fan base selling merchandise selling sponsorships which puts us in a financial

position no team in our division can be in we raise nearly a million in sponsorship that's more than the entire revenue of every single team in that division put together and probably every team in the division above so we have the economic position to to get the best players and now you start paying the players yeah we're paying the players so then like you know we've and we've learned a lot about that so the next the first four or five promotions are going to be pretty easy damn well at the same time our bitcoin treasury just sits there and grows in value that but that's an unknown variable you know our expectation eight years bitcoin probably has done another 10x could be wrong maybe it hasn't but if it has that's going to allow us to leverage that money

to invest further in the team outside of that it's going to allow us to invest in football in the town that's like this is a super important part for me as well is that uh i want to build a facility which allows people to come and train and play football we don't have bedford where i live is quite a deprived area um we are perfectly situated between the two main motorways in the country m1 and a1 and there's a bypass between the two so all we really have is like amazon warehouses and logistics which are god-awful places to go and work we don't have much else most people who are have the ability to go and earn money either set up their own small business or they go and work in london uh so there's a lot of deprivation where i'm and just to be able to

build a football facility in the town where any kid girl uh adult can come and play football would is would be really good for me so whilst we're working on the plans to grow the team we're also working on the plans to kind of build out this training facility in Bedford. Got some very active conversations with investors at the moment. Hopefully we'll have some big announcements soon, which I'll let you know as soon as it comes.

Are you going to raise money for the team? Yeah. Like in the scene, nobody in football will understand it if we pull this off. The numbers we're looking at, it's like they won't get it. People in football are like, what do you fucking mean you've

raised that much for a team like this? but our goal here is if bitcoin does its thing and we do this in the right way we will create one of the big should we invest should we invest in real bedford uh yeah but you don't really you should invest in me and what i'm going to do with this yeah yeah but i'm just saying like and then can i put on my twitter account owner real bedford no you can be an investor no but why there's i know a lot of people who are the owner yeah they own one percent of teams and that's what they say But what the story is here is that you can take something very small and make it super successful by adopting a Bitcoin standard.

All we are doing is we're taking the El Salvador play. How does El Salvador become a major player on the international stage? Invest in Bitcoin. Yeah, this is going to work. It's patient. And in eight to 10 years, they are economically way ahead of any of their neighbors. Can you do it in 10 years or less to get to the promotion?

I mean, nine consecutive promotions. I mean, that's going to be super hard. Oh, not in consecutive. Yeah, it's very hard. And that's going to be hard. The first four or five might be relatively easy, but they become super hard because, you know, Man City have spent half a billion on their team,

still never won the Champions League. There is that unknown variable that you don't win. How much revenue does the Premier League teams do? I mean, the base lowest teams will get 130 million TV money, I think, around that number. Outside of TV money? It depends on the team because it's such a broad range. Norwich to Man City is hugely different.

There's six big clubs that make, like, the majority of the money. And what do they do minus TV? Because everyone gets TV, but what do they do outside of that? $100 million? Commercial models, shirt sales are huge. But the six top teams, I mean, you cover all this, right? Yeah, I mean, the top teams, they can make $100 million on their shirts,

like on the actual sponsorship, right? That's where most of the money is, the sponsorship. When they sign a player like Messi, that is paid for usually on the first day with the shirt sales. But what all these teams do, these six top teams, they're international brands all the smaller teams they really struggle to become an international brand

because if you're a kid in Thailand or Malaysia and you pick a team you want to pick one of the top teams that's going to win and it's usually Man U, Liverpool Man City, Chelsea, maybe Arsenal and now Real Bedford I'm in

Tottenham have tried to do it but completely and utterly failed because they're just I heard that they're not good at soccer and supporting them is just abject misery um and we think we can fill that slot do you like do you like how i know how to how to poke uh european soccer fans yeah all right let me tell you all the details and uh we'll fill them out and then uh we want two times the equity and advisory shares all right man we'll hey but listen no i'm not what all the uh the icos do right is uh is that dude i if i was a

crypto guy i could have done an ico raised a bunch of money and these other people have done it these we are going to make it idiots have bought Crawley Town which is a serious team they're a league team really but they're going to sell

NFTs and nah I'm all in on Real Bedford yeah alright man we'll put like somewhere here in the studio

we'll put like a little you guys got that Gemini sponsorship yeah man how much that cost to put their name on there big bucks yeah how much

I can't talk about it you can't say it's a million dollars it's a case by case basis yeah best business show on the front Did you sell the naming rights to the stadium yet?

No, it's going to be called the Citadel, right? Oh, okay. Oh, you're not going to sell a sponsorship? I think you have to call the ground the Citadel. Well, if I pay you enough money, we can call it Pomp's Citadel. I mean, maybe, maybe, maybe. We'll see, man. I like the Citadel.

I appreciate you supporting it. Of course. I genuinely believe this is going to work. These guys, my friend, Grant at 1031, was the first person to ask to write a check. He was like, we were in a bar in New York and he was just like, just tell me when and when. I think the reason everyone wants to get involved

is one, it's fun. Even if you don't make any money off it, you're going to be part of something. And I think consider this as like a bit of a Bitcoin tax in that if we get this right, this tells such a good story globally. Like we all want El Salvador to be a success, right? Because it proves a point.

We all want MicroStrategy to be a success because it proves a point. Yeah, and this just tells a story. so all we're doing is creating new stories I think I was so in until you said

it's okay if we don't make money I mean I was so in I mean have you not talked to your brother about football clubs

they did they gotta lose money to make money you gotta lose okay I'm cool with the losing I mean Amazon lost money for a long time

until it became the most valuable company in the world look if we get to the premier league the club will will have made the investors money

but that's a long way away yeah yeah to print cash you'll get there we'll get there man I would back you thank you man absolutely

all right I appreciate you coming on I love you man I love you too I'm sorry by the way I owe you an apology you owe me a lot of apologies

no no I owe you an apology because I know it must be depressing to be so far down on the podcast charts looking up all the time your neck must hurt

but third but third is I appreciate the time to come over here always man always come and see you dude do you two have any

last genius comments no I'd reiterate that thanks for coming by We're even promoting his stuff right now on the show. Do you like our new banners? Yeah, I like it a lot. I like the photos, actually.

The thumbnails, they're super slick. After every interview, we just take a photo of them. So it's like a fresh one. We don't wait for them to send us one. And it's like what they actually look like, not like somebody using a photo, 30 pounds lighter, 10 years ago, with hair, and now my Tinder profile.

All right. Thank you very much. we appreciate it sir you two got anything left nope oh hey i have a question for you actually do you have an eight sleep yet oh what oh the bed yes no you know i went to get one uh they don't well they ship them to the uk but they don't have part of it you can't get they're like they're only i think you get the mattress but you're in you're in yeah it was um who told me about it uh it was jill oh jill yeah yeah she told me about she said they're amazing and then i heard it on the pump show and i was like now i'm now i'm convinced yeah you ever have a friend who just

like are you asking me this you can get me one are you just helping me promote your sponsor we'll figure out what uh what you need uh we're using what they can't ship do you have a bitcoin exchange a bitcoin exchange yeah have you heard of gemini actually you can use gemini to help buy hate sleep that's good i'm sure you could actually You probably can. And then you can take that out and you can spend a little bit on sportsbet.io. Okay.

I appreciate all of you. Go to SoFi.com. Thanks so much for listening to today's episode. I really hope you guys enjoyed this one. Make sure you're subscribed on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite podcast player. And if you're looking to try to transition to get a new job in the Bitcoin or crypto industry,

we've got you covered. Head over to palmscryptocourse.com. We've developed a curriculum with the top teams across the industry. It's a three-week intensive training program with over 50 events packed into that three-week time period. Go to pompscryptocourse.com to learn more and I'll meet you guys for the next episode.