The Pomp Podcast - Bitcoin vs. The Fed: Who Wins in 2026? | Jeff Park

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Jeff Park is the Partner & Chief Investment Officer at ProCap Financial. In this conversation, we break down the Fed’s year-end shift toward rate cuts and easier liquidity, what it means for markets, and why bitcoin sentiment feels so negative despite strong performance. Jeff also digs into how AI investment is reshaping the macro landscape, what institutional players like BlackRock and Stripe signal for crypto, and why ProCap’s mission centers on bitcoin and the coming age of abundance.======================As markets shift, headlines break, and interest rates swing, one thing stays true — opportunity is everywhere. At Arch Public, we help you do more than just buy and hold. Yes, our dynamic accumulation algorithms are built for long-term investors… but where we really shine? Our arbitrage algos — designed to farm volatility and turbocharge your core positions. The best part of Arch Public’s products is they are free! Yes, you heard that right, try Arch Public for free! Take advantage of wild moves in assets like $SOL, $SUI, and $DOGE, and use them to stack more Bitcoin — completely hands-free. Arch Public is already a preferred partner with Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, and Robinhood, and our team is here to help you build smarter in any market. Visit Arch Public today, at https://www.archpublic.com, your portfolio will thank you.======================This podcast is sponsored by Abra.com. Abra is the secure way to access crypto and crypto based yield and loan products through a separately managed account structure.Learn more at http://www.abra.com.======================Timestamps: 0:00 – Intro1:46 – Implications of fed rate cuts + QE returning7:00 – AI investment vs rest of the economy12:48 – Bitcoin sentiment despite strong performance16:01 – Intersection between bitcoin and AI23:22 – ProCap Financial goes public ($BRR)

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. what's up everyone this is anthony pompliano many of you know me as pomp you're listening to the pomp podcast which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them

for hours while i ask questions in an effort to learn so it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform watch episodes on youtube and tell your friends and family about the podcast my goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Why was Bitcoin

so exciting pre-Trump, it was this idea that Bitcoin is like a national strategic interest that people are going to rally around. And a little bit of that energy has been sucked away because it's AI. AI is the thing

that has now found its place where it's a make or break kind of moment. We have to go all in. And that is in itself creating a lot of that energy that I think Bitcoin wanted. Do you think that there's

an intersection between the two? What's going on, guys? Today, we got a great conversation with Jeff Park. Jeff is a partner and Chief Investment Officer at ProCap Financial. In this conversation, we talk about the Fed meeting, why easy money is coming back to the market, what's going on with Bitcoin's price, why everyone is so bad sentiment-wise online, and then we even get into what is going on with

ProCap Financial, how we closed the deal, and what's the vibe? What are we trying to do? And where can you go learn more information? All that and more in this conversation with Jeff Bark. All right, Jeff. Interest rate cuts, my friend. We are headed real deep into the pool uh for qe it's back like we're gonna get loose monetary policy and easy money what do you think the implications of the fed's decision here is well it's the last meeting of the year i think that's why it's especially topical because it'll set the tone for 2026 so as you said the rate cut i think is a no-brainer it's priced in and has it has even inclinated that we should look towards accelerating those rate cuts um and we know it's basically driven mostly by the uneasy feelings we

have on the labor market. And I think the labor market challenges we're seeing will probably continue in 2026. So the recent data point we have on October's jobs numbers was that there were a few things that were happening that are at some level contradictory, right? So you saw that there is new openings, more openings than before, but you also saw that people were fired more. And so you're getting more openings, but people are getting fired. And then the quits rate also is going down, which means generally people are feeling a little uneasy about quitting because they don't feel the economic security to pursue something else, and they're not going to take that risk. So all of these factors point towards labor markets still being a little bit of a

conundrum. And I think that's what the Fed is focused on in December, and it's going to be focused on 2026. If you look at the numbers and actually kind of look at the qualitative aspects of what's happening, what you're seeing is that, yes, there are new jobs being added, But the jobs are coming from what I would call service level, where people are not really looking at as permanent openings. These are maybe even driven by some seasonal aspects of needing more Starbucks barista kind of stuff. These are not what I would call permanent fixtures of people who find security in the jobs. And the layoffs, they're coming from, as you already know, from high quality sectors like the tech space. And those are the jobs that people want more of.

So you're seeing the quality of jobs changing beneath you, even beyond just the numbers themselves. And I think that's the story that will continue to determine how the Fed categorizes labor weakness going forward. So that's why I think it's important that we have that in context. So really, there's a few things to keep in mind. One is, will we continue to accelerate more rate cut? I think that's on people's mind all the time. We know we're getting 25 bps, but the question is, how much lower are we going to get in 2026? And that pace of rate cut, I think, is really important.

And then the second thing is really more kind of about beyond rate cuts, like what are the other policies that the Fed is going to implement to ease up liquidity as there are strains that are being seen in the system? So on the acceleration of rate cuts, the U.S. is on a particular spot because we're a little bit off sync with the rest of the world. Like Japan is raising rates. Australia just yesterday announced that they're probably going to end easing policies. So we're moving in a slightly different direction with the rest of the global supply of capital, if you will.

And that's a little bit unnerving, especially because if you believe the neutral rates are determined by some equilibrium between investment and savings, we've seen a clear big investment boom here. The AI boom is real and there is investment capital flowing in. And a PhD economist would tell you that means that our neutral rates should actually be going higher. all things equal with investments being a driver of function and savings. So I think that pace of cutting is up for question. And then really, I think the billion dollar, trillion dollar question really is what is the Fed going to do for liquidity easing purposes as QTS just ended in December 1st. And here we constantly hear about how the concept of bank reserves right now at $2.9 trillion is not a number that we know to be steady for where the

banks may need additional liquidity for. And so that, I think, is the thing that is driving a lot of unease. I think if you look at the pricing of the overnight GC repo rates, you'll see that it's trading around 4.25% today. And that means by end of the year, people are expecting there to be a bit of a tightness because there's always tightness at the end of the year with the Fed and the banks kind of reshuffling all their balance sheets. And 4.25 is 60 bps higher than what we think the Fed cut rate is going to be. I mean, that's a pretty big spread. So the market is anticipating there's going to be tight liquidity. And of course, that is compounded by the fact that there's just been more treasury bill issuance, which is sucking up liquidity from

the markets. And so this is why people think we're going to have some kind of liquidity injection as early as January. And some people think it will happen within Q1, but not January. But there's a lot of expectation that starting January, bang, right in the new year, we are going to have some kind of liquidity injection from the Fed that is going to have to be a part of helping us discover what this ample reserve capacity should be around this $2.9 trillion in the bank reserve side. And of course, on the other side of that balance sheet and the leisure booking is the central bank's reserves at $6.5 trillion. Now, what's interesting to me is if you read headlines, you'll see headlines that say everything's amazing. You'll see that it's literally next to a headline that

says everything is horrible. Both of them seem to be true. And I think that what you're highlighting here is like there is a lot of investment going into AI. At the same time, there is no investment going into other industries. And so what I've always thought is very interesting is, you know, theoretically, or an academic may look at an economy and they kind of like broad brushstroke, you know, is there investment? Is there not? Well, what sector? How much? You know, when? Sequence, right? There's all these kind of different things. And it's kind of like inflation, like different people experience different levels of inflation, depending on what the actual inflation in the economy is, but also like, what is the basket of goods they buy and all that type

stuff the reason i bring that up is because it does feel like there's obviously an uh investment in ai um a plethora of investment is going there um but the federal reserve only has a one-size-fits-all monetary policy right and so they have to almost like put weight on do we covet the ai industry more or less than maybe other industries and it just seems like once you get into the like minutia of thinking through this stuff to simply answer the question of like, does the United States have investment or not? It's a little bit harder than just like, you know, oh, yes, there's a ton of money flowing into one sector, because I think there's a lot of people in many sectors who are saying, wait a minute, we have none. We actually see a exit of talent and capital and, you know,

productivity. And so how do you think through that as an investor and trying to understand how the Fed is thinking about making these decisions? Yeah, you're hitting on a really good point, which references back to the quality of the actual changes matter beyond just the numerical aspects, as we talked about with unemployment and jobs number. And quantitative easing too, as people are anticipating we'll make a revival for, I actually do think it will have industrial elements to it because we're at that point where fiscal and monetary functions in relations to government expenditures and private sectors are all kind of merging. And in a weird way quantitative easing signifying on the quantity of money ignores the fact on the quality of money

right actually where is this money going for what purpose to drive what qualitative outcomes for society at large so i think personally that we're gonna venture into a new era where the next versions of qe will look maybe qualitatively eased than quantitatively eased and it's because the k-shaped economy is real in everything we see we see it in the labor market but we also see it in the ways that goods and services are being priced differently there's inflation and certain things there's deflation and certain things but this is the problem with society at large where the things that are experiencing inflation are generally the things that people need beyond kind of goods right so when you talk about like education being expensive health care being

expensive, services being expensive, childcare being expensive, all that stuff. It's hard to know if AI can actually reduce that as much because ultimately it's human capital, human labor. And these things, of course, then become a little bit circular because we're all trying to grow the economy where everyone's playing a role in contributing their human capital, right? And so the reason AI is so fundamentally different is because it has the potential to replace human capital. And that's why it's just categorically different than any kind of technological revolution in the past. It's not just an amplifier of human capabilities. There are certain jobs that will completely be eliminated, where if you think about the way society is

generally structured, we've always still needed jobs for kind of the base of the pyramid, if you will, because it's a part of like the social contract of earning a livelihood to participate in society, right? And those are really the people most at risk. And so, even when we think through kind of the migration of human capital that's been happened post all the technological growth, we ignore the fact that part of why we're here in this great movement of populism is because so many people have still been left behind and has never recovered, right? Like the coal miners and whoever was in that industrial sector actually never recovered into doing anything else. And so imagine that happening at the level where we're now talking about the quality of jobs being fundamentally different. I think this is where QE will just have to look different because it's going to start being targeting a little bit more specific industrial policies, specific kinds of jobs creation, and like a specific kind of growth that is good for society at large.

And as you said, right now, all of it being skewed in AI is creating this K-shaped market as well in the S&P 500, where the top 10 companies are just dominating the rest of the index. If you take out the top 10 companies and look at the rest, they've generally not been performing very well. So, I mean, that alone tells you that everything is hinged upon the quality that is not being as widely dispersed across society as it should be at this point. Today's episode is brought to you by ArchPublic. As markets shift, headlines break, and interest rates swing, one thing stays true. Opportunity is everywhere. At ArchPublic, they help you do more than just buy and hold. Yes, their dynamic accumulation algorithms are built for long-term investors.

But where they really shine? They're arbitrage algos designed to farm volatility and turbocharge your core positions. The best part of ArchPublic's products is they're free. Yeah, you heard that right. Try ArchPublic for free. Take advantage of wild moves and assets like Solana, Sui, and Doge, and use them to stack more Bitcoin completely hands-free. ArchPublic is already a preferred partner with Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, and Robinhood, and their team is here to help you build smarter in any market. Visit ArchPublic today at ArchPublic.com, and your portfolio will thank you.

Now, when you see that dispersion, it does feel like the Bitcoiners are doing really well. if you just objectively look at the price of bitcoin um but they're not very happy online uh in a weird way uh they're doing great but they're miserable whereas uh i actually think there's a lot of people who uh feel like they're happy but they're not doing that well but it's kind of this weird dynamic um and uh it makes me wonder the bitcoin price is actually doing better than you would think by looking at sentiment but it is not doing as well as people expected and so like the gap between reality and expectations is where unhappiness lives. I think that's why people are so unhappy. But how do you read into this idea that, you know, the Bitcoiners, I don't

know what the latest numbers, but like, I think the compounding or growth rate of Bitcoin over the last three years is 72%. There's not many people who should be upset. Yeah. Online, there are a lot of people upset. And so like, that feels very different than maybe, you know, there's certain stock indexes that if you're like emerging markets exposure, you haven't really done that well over the last four or five years in comparison to Bitcoin. But a lot of those guys seem pretty happy. Maybe it's just like lower expectations. Yeah, I think part of it is because people look at Bitcoin to most first and foremost compete with gold and the rest of the precious metals category. And in that lens alone, it's empirically true that Bitcoin has lagged a little bit this

year, more so than it probably would have been priced for. I think silver is having an incredible year where, of course, there's been decades when silver did nothing. So it's also kind of over a long period of time, silver is not that exciting, but it's up more than 60% this year based on a lot of things beyond just being a precious metal for industrial uses. And because of these elements where there's so much growth that is happening, that is driven by real narratives that isn't focused on Bitcoin. Because if you think about Bitcoin, the focus on Bitcoin's growth is monetary debasement. The things that are driving markets today and the optimism behind AI is a seeking for better productivity gains that are a little bit antithetical to Bitcoin.

So if you think about the culture in which people are investing for Bitcoin versus the optimism that you otherwise see in high-tech growth opportunities, I would say almost that mood is not even compatible. And right now what we're seeing is an over kind of winning of the optimism behind like the AI gold rush. I don't even know if it's optimism in the sense that people are really excited about it, but there's almost like an existential need for AI to succeed at the national public and private sector that is now superseding the national interest for Bitcoin to win because if you think about like why was bitcoin so exciting pre-trump it was this idea that bitcoin is like a national strategic interest that people are going to rally around

and a little bit of that energy has been sucked away because it's ai ai is the thing that has now found its place where it's it's it's a make or break kind of moment we have to go all in and that is in itself creating a lot of that energy that i think bitcoin wanted do you think that there's an intersection though between the two right like um i i do think that there's something very interesting about uh the argument that people always made of like bitcoin will be money for machines right i've made that argument uh i think stable coins now all of a sudden become something that people like oh wait a second medium of exchange may be kind of co-opted a little bit by the stable coins and maybe that's a good thing you know um but it

does still feel like these two things have the same vibe and energy they have a lot of the same people who are interested in both um they also are getting at the same thing which is like driving efficiency driving global you know kind of usage um they need power yeah right i mean there's a lot of these components that are very similar so do you think that there is some intersection point there there's definitely an intersection on what you just highlighted in that energy is valuable and both sector recognizes both recognize compute and power is important and it can be monetized where they differ is that at least within the construct of productivity gains coming from ai toolings, those things have utility that you can see today. It's pretty palpable that it's

changing people's lives. With Bitcoin, you can't see it as easily here in the US because, again, we're lucky to have a financial system that functions really well, that we don't really need to think about Bitcoin existing or not having a big difference in your life. But if you ask others in the emerging markets that actually are experiencing hyperinflation, they would probably indexed to Bitcoin being much more valuable than whatever productivity tools they're gaining from becoming an S-tier employee or employer from the A-tier that they were at today. Meaning, the story of AI is actually pretty elite. The story of Bitcoin is the opposite. It's meant to help those at the very bottom. And so in that sense, the constituents are really, really

different. And Americans just happen to live in this middle ground where Bitcoin is not predominantly being used for them in that way beyond the fact that it's a little bit more about like wealth creation so i think that's important like context to have in mind at the same time like you know what's happened with uh crypto as an industry within the institutionalization that's been happening is maybe moving in a slightly different direction than the original ethos of bitcoin 2 so take for example like the three major players that i think have made splashes this year for coming into crypto in a mainstream way you got uh first and foremost, Stripe, right? Stripe is coming out. They've launched Tempo. They're going to compete

in the payment processing lane as well as money transfers. And just two days ago, they announced their pricing for USDC transfer is going to be 1.5% for payments. 1.5% is definitely cheaper than IC fees, maybe by half. So yes, you're gaining some benefits. But man, you're still paying 1.5% to do a payment processing that otherwise crypto would have should be well below like 20 bps so what exactly is the purpose of um usdc in the way that tempo is being built by stripe it's not super obvious that the value proposition makes sense for americans again like we we are probably not going to use stripe to buy uh stuff if we can just kind of do it in different ways where it's not a huge difference versus like a credit card where they

get rewards and stuff what matters is actually global remittances right like that's where the utility comes from because there you're paying eight to nine percent just to move money around the world and maybe there's an option to pay orders of magnitude less so is that good for like crypto is it good for americans is it good for emerging markets like now we're trying to see like there's just different beneficiaries and losers potentially on the relative value proposition um and then you also have uh citadel like citadel has come in and made a variety of interesting investments and the latest was that they invested in ripple and you know many people will throw their hands up in the air and have controversial opinions about what ripple means to this industry

but it's the fact that one of the largest checks that they've ever written went into ripple and so is that good for crypto is that bad for crypto i think it just generates a lot of like unease about what is the long-term mission of where Bitcoin and crypto is trying to go. And I would say BlackRock being the third player that has made a splash in the space, not just for the ETS, but because now they are staunchly behind tokenization as an effort that they want to endorse. And if you listen very carefully about how they talk about tokenization, you'll still see that it's not totally this distributed ledger system of asset ownership that has been the manifesto driving crypto venture capital from seven years ago, because BlackRock is

mostly focused on cost reduction. They're thinking about tokenization to get rid of a lot of these inefficient back office functions and having systems that can speak to each other more, but not, I would say, necessarily make it permissionless. So there's a gain of function that's happening from an efficiency perspective, but from an asset ownership perspective, it's still very much a controlled garden in which they want to be the ledger right and that's and that's natural because they are a financial institution that has to serve a certain function within the regulatory arena that we have and so is that like the tokenization that we imagine we would happen uh we would have where we have self-custodial aspects of it you know it's a

little different so i think all these things are kind of coming into the picture a little bit where it's affecting crypto sentiment broadly. And then, of course, the price action beyond Bitcoin has been really, really quite poor. So I would argue still that Bitcoin is probably the only categorical crypto asset that has found product market fit that is globally and widely accepted at large, both across retail and institution. I have a hard time to say that is the case yet for almost any other crypto assets, not to say it couldn't happen, but it's still very much a discovery, a journey of finding functions where there's gains to be had that people are able to back and find value accrual for themselves in participating. Today's episode is brought to

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Yeah, it makes sense to me. The last thing I want to talk about, ProCap Financial. We closed the deal, finally. We took ProCap BTC, combined it with Columbus Circle Capital Corp., which was a D-SPAC transaction that closed last Friday. We began trading on Monday under the ticker of BRR. So ProCap Financial is now officially a public company. um, talk a little bit as to, um, you know, kind of the general approach here. And, you know, maybe one of the things that people can go check out is, uh, we've got the website up now. So procapfinancial.com and we've got a nice little manifesto and kind of like a, this is what we believe. Right. Which I think, um, as people have asked me, you know, uh, kind of, what are you guys thinking here? How are you guys thinking about this? I send them that. And then all of a sudden they're like, got it pretty clear. Um, how are you thinking about it? Yeah, look, it's an exciting

moment. It was a long journey and the sentiment and crypto can change very quickly over time. But what I know deep in my heart is that there is a core centering that is amongst us, which is a cultural value proposition of what Bitcoin represents to us beyond just the price. And if you think about really hardcore Bitcoiners, what they're really driven by is a sense of self-determination, right? They want control for their own destiny and their own outcomes, and they want transparency and neutrality, and the ability to basically be a sovereign individual. This can apply to so many things in life beyond just buying Bitcoin that I think is almost pricelessly more important than how much money you made buying Bitcoin

day to day that goes up or down. I mean, we all think it's going to go up, but we shouldn't judge the quality of a mission based on just the monetary gain and losses alone. I think there's a greater kind of value that can be had. And one of the bigger misgivings in Bitcoin that I've always felt is that it tends to be a little bit pessimistic about the world, right? It's about this idea that debasement is going to lead to nihilistic outcomes. And the thing that makes Bitcoin useful is the scarcity. So we all have to fight each other to have the scarce thing that no one else can have. And anytime there's an ETF or options, oh my gosh, it's paper Bitcoin is coming for me like this idea is very much rooted in scarcity but i think what you and i have imagined

is bitcoin can represent so much about the abundance of the things to come not because bitcoin itself is abundant but because the way you can train your mind to appreciate bitcoin will teach you a skill that is so valuable to think about the world in such an abundant way so we've talked about things like predictions market that has now found product market fit now then i would say back even six months ago, where the clarity of how it would come to the U.S. market has been a little bit challenged. Now we have Polymarket on your phone. So this is a moment that has arrived. And equipping people with the ability to have a sense of self-determination to rise above it all is actually how I think we can really change the world. And Bitcoin can play a role,

but we can compound on top of that with a lot of different value accrual mechanisms that are possible that I think should be really exciting. And all of us should broaden the aperture to think about the opportunity set beyond just the asset of Bitcoin. I do think that there's something about this feeling that people have where technology should solve my problems. It should make my life better. It should make everything around me cheaper. It should make my quality of life go up it should make me happier um there are some people who have harnessed that for sure and i tend to think that they are in the technology industry right they kind of have an expertise and experience it um but now the challenge is like how do you bring that to everybody

right and obviously the negative side of this is people say oh we're going to lose our jobs or you know there's going to be these issues um but if you actually look historically at what has happened you know i always go back to i think it's like 1870 to 1900 1870 really probably is a good time frame um there's a a great book i'm forgetting the guy who wrote it but uh it's basically like the history of american growth and uh dave column at uh cornell um suggested i read it one time i started reading this thing and all i keep thinking about in this book is homes had no electricity no running water no infrastructure no telephones no you know they're like completely unconnected and so you had like a farm you had a house you had to like travel places to do things right

literally you were like a single you know uh a unit of account if you will in kind of housing yeah and this book talks about basically two things in particular really changed the way that uh society interacted and commerce and all stuff uh one of the most important inventions was the elevator the ability to go up rather than have to go out yeah right um so you can create density now and so like you don't think about that right but like yeah that's been pretty helpful for new york city and many other cities around the world but then also the connection of these homes where then they had roads and running water and electricity and you have telephones and all this kind of stuff now you plugged yourself into a network and one of the things that i constantly

go back to is i think what we're trying to do is plug a business into a network that network is there's the bitcoin network right in the balance sheet and kind of what we can do there it's also plug it into this idea of like an independent investor and kind of the rise of these independent people who get their information online and allocate their capital directly and are chasing independent uh kind of financial independence but it's also plugging yourself into almost like a technology matrix of there's ai and there's bitcoin and there's drones and rockets and humanoids and you just go through all this stuff you just feel like the world is rapidly changing yeah and i think maybe the the way that i have come to sum this up um and we've we've got on

the website you know i constantly keep saying it on mine it's just like the age of abundance is coming and bitcoin is the hurdle rate and when you think of those two things it's like look like there are positive benefits and then every capital allocation decision is against bitcoin as a return profile and if you can hold those two things in your head and then i do think it gives you kind of a nice framework for kind of, you know, not only where's our business going, but where's the world going? Yeah, no, it's well said. I think technology by and large has been so useful for people because it gave us time. And when you think about the inventions that you've mentioned, a lot of the things as we've known it in the past are what I would call like extrinsic kind

of value gains where it's pretty linear. Like again, like working a little bit longer because you have light on, that you didn't have lights before because there was no electricity or elevators or cars that help you transport faster, you're gaining time and time that you can then spend for other things, which can be for investing, your own personal growth or consumption or whatever you want, but you got time. The thing that's happening with the most recent rounds of technological growth is that it's actually not linear because the growth that they're enabling is very intrinsic to you so it's not just about me going from point a to point b faster you and i can ride the same car and the net

benefit is the same for you and me but if there's like a tool that's going to make me better and you better well now it's not the same outcome it's not like we both just shared a car from point a to point b it's how did you use that tool how did i use that tool and actually knowing how these things can help you intrinsically become better is a different um benefit so here again i think there's an element of self-determination like elevators are great and everyone benefits from the same way but the but the but the most cutting-edge exponential things that are happening that are now going to improve the principal like personhood of you they need to be um used in the most proper way for which you have to assign like a value proposition for and uh that's a

mindset i actually think it's a mindset much kind of like you'll still see old people who are like not into reading emails and they want to print stuff and you know it's fine they can get by like that but you know i would say we're kind of at that inflection point where um if you don't embrace these uh these changes to help your own productivity you're going to be left really behind like even when you look at wall street you'll still see some of the senior bankers that like, you know, 50 plus that don't know how to use Excel. And it's fine because they actually have a whole world in which they built their livelihood around relationships and broad-based conceptual thinking, and they get to the goals they need and they can utilize other things.

But you have to imagine, they grew up with a calculator, right? They were literally punching buttons in a calculator. You know, the generation going forward, I mean, they're going to be using all these toolings and ways to help become better investors, better thinkers, becoming more independent. And part of this ethos, I think really does come back to Bitcoin where like understanding the frontier of how these things can help and change is exactly how you also improve yourself and your own society at large. So it's really an exciting time. I actually think the age of abundance is, is, is so there's so much we need to root for and be optimistic and optimism actually is not as easy as people think. I think there's this general misconception too, that

optimism is like a foolish thing. And so pessimism is actually the educated kind of take on like being right. But it's my opinion, quite the opposite. The world is in a state of entropy always. By the steady state of physics, the world is always falling apart. It's very easy to be a pessimist. It's actually being an optimist that takes a lot of work and a lot of deliberate conscience appreciation because you're fighting against the tide of what general entropy looks like in the world and we all need to train our minds to be more optimistic about the future i i couldn't agree more my friend all right we'll do this again next week sounds great