The Pomp Podcast - Bruce Fenton, Dedicated Scholar of Anomalous Phenomena

Episode Date: October 30, 2019

Bruce Fenton is a dedicated scholar of Anomalous Phenomena. In this conversation, Bruce and Anthony Pompliano discuss what anomalous phenomena is, the history of meteor impacts on Earth, why geo-magnetic reversals are important, the evolution of Homo sapiens, Bruce's theory on why extraterrestrial forces came to Earth on an artificial-intelligence probe, how all of this relates to Crisper technology, and how the media and others should be encouraging scientific experimentation. BLOCKFI-----BlockFi allows you to keep your crypto, put it up as collateral, and receive a USD loan funded directly to your bank account. They do loans ranging from $2,000 to $10,000,000, and they're perfect for helping you reach your financial goals of all sizes. Visit BlockFi.com/Pomp to learn more about putting your crypto to work without having to sell it. CRYPTO.COM-----Crypto.com is a pioneering payment and cryptocurrency platform that seeks to accelerate the world's transition to cryptocurrency. With the vision of "cryptocurrency in every wallet", the Crypto.com App offers a full range of financial products with competitive pricing, well designed UX and high security. It is the best place to buy, sell and pay with crypto. COINMINE-----The Coinmine One is like an Xbox that turns your electricity into Bitcoin. You just plug it in, connect to wifi, and tap on the crypto you want. It’s so easy anyone can do it. Everything is controlled from the Coinmine mobile app and the Coinmine keeps getting better with over the air updates that add new coins, features and services to your Coinmine. Visit coinmine.com/pomp to get a Coinmine and earn crypto for powering a new world.

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off The Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. Bruce Fenton is a dedicated scholar of anomalous phenomena focused on revealing the origins of Homo sapiens. In this conversation, we discuss what anomalous phenomena is, the history of meteor impacts on Earth, why geomagnetic reversals are important, the evolution of Homo sapiens, Bruce's theory on why extraterrestrial forces came to Earth on an artificial intelligence probe, how all of this relates to CRISPR technology, and how the media and others should be encouraging scientific experimentation. I fully recognize that many of these are radical

ideas. I think it's important to hear all perspectives and expand our understanding and learning. I won't do many of these types of episodes, but when I do, they'll be due to a personal curiosity and I'll do my best to make them informative and entertaining. I really enjoyed this conversation with Bruce and I hope you do as well. Skrt, skrt. Want to know who has the best URL? Crypto.com. That's right. Crypto.com. They're a crypto platform with one goal. Mother f***ing mass adoption. That's why we're all here. We're trying to get crypto in every wallet. Crypto.com is helping people do that through buying, earning, lending and card payment. Everything you could want at Crypto.com. Go help your boy out. Tell him Pomp sent you.

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Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, guys. Bang, bang. I am super excited to record this episode. We've got Bruce Fenton here with us. Bruce has been spending a lot of time focused on many things around human origin and extraterrestrial involvement, along with other scientific pursuits. So thanks so much for taking the time to come out and

record this, Bruce. Thank you. It's an absolute pleasure. I'm really glad to be here. For sure. So before we kind of get into the fun stuff, I want to just start with your early life and your kind of your childhood and your background so that when we talk about some of your work today, people have an understanding of the perspective that you're coming at this from. Where were you born? Kind of what was your early childhood like? sure I'm from a small town in the southwest of England called Stroud which is a rural town and basically you know quiet backwater place not much happens but I went to an English boys grammar school I've come from that that kind of I suppose backgrounds with middle class English background product of the that system so somebody recognized the the kind of the accent I have a bit of the queen's english tone to my voice and really i got into these kind of obscure topics

i suppose quite young i mean i had a grandmother used to give me these collectible cards that there were small collectible cards that would come with her tea leaves and in them each one would have like a mystery you know like the pyramids or crystal skulls you know all those kind of strange classical strange stuff and i just found them i just found them really fascinating to be honest i suppose as as time went on you know i began to read in those topics and that's where it developed from got it and so as you um kind of went through school and everything was there anything that you did um in terms of like research or was it really more uh just personal curiosity and entertainment to some degree yeah i mean at the early age it was more of just you

know a bit of a hobby i suppose from probably around 20 ish then i became a bit more serious about it as a research you know area and we'd you know get more technical books on topics like you know ancient civilizations and also some of the like a psychical topics paranormal all of these subjects you know obviously it's a university you know I had the extra time you know so you're not you're not really weighed down with work and family so I mean I mean I had the time to have this as a kind of a side project and also had experiences of my own I had a number of strange kind of psychical experiences you know i guess what we call telepathy knowing what people's thinking including knowing people's names you know that i would meet in a club and i would

tell them their name you know total strangers so those are the kind of events of course that then intrigue you as to well if it can happen to me then it must be happening to other people there must be a valid phenomena here that's worth studying so so it wasn't just because i found intriguing you know in an external way it was also personally relevant for sure and then um where'd you go to uh college and kind of what was the uh the focus of your um um collegiate or university study i went i basically studied it actually in um east anglia which is east of london if people know the uk a little bit it was an anglia ruskin university so i did a information two years in information systems degrees i took a higher national diploma in that and went into after

that i was working in banking and some it roles and stuff in the city um but alongside that yeah maintained an interest in really all things mysterious you know the full gamut from shamanic topics to of course as we've covered some of the extraterrestrial lost civilization it really started to you know it starts to snowball you find that most of these topics they link into each other so inevitably if you if you explore one of them in any depth you start to encounter all the others right so it becomes quite a a web of subjects for sure And today, you know, I saw online that you describe yourself as a dedicated scholar of anomalous phenomena and really focus on kind of revealing the origin of Homo sapiens. But before we get into that second piece, just talk to me about like what exactly is anomalous phenomena?

And there's a whole kind of scientific community and body of work here. But from your seat, like what exactly is that work? Yeah, really, if we look at most or all areas of science today, you know, that within the existing popular consensus theories, you'll find anomalies, you know, these, these little bits of data that don't fit the theory, and that has yet not been resolved by further research, further experiments, you know. So, of course, in respect to, say, ancient history and human origins, we have a number of anomalies. And that's partly because of a lack of data. You know, the further back you go, you know, it becomes very hard to get the evidence, right? But in, you know, physics, we now see, for example, there's been a few events lately that we'll probably go into with some craft that have been observed that seem to break the laws of physics. now you'd say these anomalous because you know they suddenly stop and then they can suddenly you

know they appear to be instantaneously at maximum speed again that would be an anomaly because as we understand it craft have to slow down and speed up so again there's physics anomalies biological anomalies i'm interested in all these all of these really to some degree and obviously only in some areas i have special skills which allow me to resolve some of them or attempt to resolve something so that's my focus is really on anomalous science um because of the spr the society for psychical research and they deal with anomalous phenomena and probably one of the more famous organizations that you know they'll research the paranormal and psychical type claims you know and they'll apply scientific rigor to to testing these claims to see if they can find uh you know

a real world tangible solution for why certain things seem to happen which we don't fully understand for sure and i think that um you know for those at home who who are unfamiliar with this um you know when we talk about that scientific rigor and some of the associations and things like that um you know there's uh i think probably one of the larger ones is the associate the association for the scientific study of anomalous phenomena that's you know found in the 80s right In the UK and studies everything from ghosts to crop circles, aliens, UFOs, kind of all of these things that I think have entered into the mainstream culture in more kind of mimetic type or comedy. Right. It's kind of like the jokes and the and kind of personal curiosity. But no one would ever openly admit in a traditional professional corporate environment.

Hey, you know, I believe in ghosts. I believe in aliens. You know, it's kind of taboo a little bit, but there's always some form of truth in this stuff. And I think that, you know, it's important for people to really understand that there's an entire community of academics, of researchers and scientists who are dedicated to studying this stuff of which you are really attacking kind of a subset of that work. Absolutely. And really, there should be no area of human experience or human observation, which is beyond the remit of scientific investigation. so i think it's a sad fact that we ever developed this kind of um you know farcical kind of joke approach to certain areas of human experience because you know if hundreds of thousands of people report seeing a ghost or report i know seeing aliens or whatever it is you know that is a valid phenomena for scientific research right no matter what the final conclusion of

that research is even if it's that we have a mass delusion because a mass delusion would be a fascinating discovery, right? That there's 100,000 people suffering from some rare brain condition that causes them to see the ghost of, you know, I know, King Henry VIII, right? That would be an astonishing scientific conclusion, wouldn't it? For sure. And, you know, look, I've been pretty clear with folks that, you know, my personal interest in a lot of this work and really kind of around this idea of intellectual life outside of earth, um, comes down to the idea that, uh, science is supposed to be experimental, right? There should be no sacred cows. Um, the idea of, uh, forming an hypothesis, putting it through that scientific rigor, uh, and being comfortable

coming out on the other end, uh, with whatever facts, uh, and conclusions are there, right? So not saying I'm going to reject science, but saying instead I have a thesis that I'm willing to put through scientific rigor. And when I come out the other end, I'm open minded as to what that conclusion can be based on those facts. And I think when it comes to kind of, you know, extraterrestrial intelligence and life and the UFOs and all of this stuff that I'll just call, you know, kind of outside of Earth. I think that there's a lot of people who don't have that open mindedness. Right. But but as a friend recently told me, you know, look, one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs that we could have in our lifetime would be the discovery of intelligent life outside of Earth. Right. I mean, that that is a an inflection point in both the Homo sapiens on Earth, but also in the trajectory. right if all of a sudden we know that there are other people out there we can confirm that we know

where they are um etc i think that it really would not only expand the thinking of people but but it would change the way that we um do things or or think about things and plan uh which would obviously be pretty uh pretty serious stuff yeah absolutely i mean it's it could rewrite the sort of software of the brain in a way that the way we think about ourselves the way we think about the future of our planet um the way we go about certain areas of infrastructure would change you know but just knowing that we are not alone and that there is whether already or potential to connect with other intelligences you know yeah i think would be an enormous rewrite for a lot of our thinking i mean perhaps probably the two biggest questions out there in science and

philosophy are that you know does any element of us survive death and are we alone in the universe I mean, there's not many other questions that are on par with those, right? I mean, we all at some point will probably ask those two questions. For sure. And I think there are – the way I see it is that both of those questions are really important. Everyone does ask them at some point. And most people have a foregone conclusion or assumption in their head, right? So they either believe that there is some afterlife or they don't.

And they either believe that it's likely that there's other intelligent life or they don't. But I don't think that those assumptions disqualify the importance of the scientific rigor to actually get confidence in a conclusion. Right. To be able to confirm, yes, there is an afterlife or there is other life out there outside of Earth. um again it produces a level of um of competence and kind of finite um answers that that again change the behavior uh and understanding that humans have today absolutely and one of the things we know as well in the facing the scientific and the tech world as well is that sometimes if you know that there is something out there which is possible that you can't do yet right but you know say a competitor can do something or you see a technology right which is being used in another

nation you don't have you know it's possible to develop it right so so suddenly if you have a team working on it they are reinvigorated by the fact that hey someone else can do that then we can do that right so if we know that there is intelligence out there and we detect them and we start to learn something about them we find that they have let's say certain technology certain knowledge of science and we say hey that that's really a radical rethink of what we assumed you know what we thought was possible that is going to really change how we go about developing new technologies right because if we know civilization x can create you know such and such a machine then we can right so so i think we're going to see that happen as long as we can you know establish that there is

something there they have these technologies that that would really change the way we go about developing future tech and things like that as well so it could you know i think it's probably an amazing impact and of course i'm underlying this we'll get to obviously i'm arguing that that is a current real world situation right that we have evidence that we have evidence that these kind of things are well that there is intelligence right if we look at some of the things that are happening at the moment of course we have recent events you know it suggests that technology is operating right in our in our atmosphere which do defy some of our understandings now whether they're extraterrestrial or whether they are some unknown you know operator those are going to

inspire people to replicate right we're going to have these these tic-tac things whatever they're being called people are going to look at those and say well hey you know how do we stop it you know immediately and then suddenly change it i'm sure that's already happening i'm sure that's you know that's been worked on probably since their first detection right so if there's ways of studying other elements of that technology now assuming it's again probably not human made then we're gonna be able to i think you know start to chase whoever it is that's doing this and try to do catch up you know start to develop some really astonishing things yeah and we're really talking about is it's kind of like the the roger bannister effect right that no human had

ever run a four minute mile all of a sudden roger bannister runs the four minute mile and you know within you know one or two years it was like 20 people yeah right and it was just the belief that hey this is possible another human has done this um kind of you know broke open the floodgates if you will yeah absolutely i've heard of experiments where they've done this where they've had teams of scientists have been given almost like you know a fake video of something to show them that it's possible and that it's changed the belief set of the team right because it's like well hey look someone else can do it then you can and then they think oh right yeah we must be able to you know whereas beforehand they would have assumed it was impossible and they've gone on to develop that now

i can't remember the specific case where i read that but obviously again it's you know it does seem that you're able to to change people's thinking i mean that seeing is believing right that we will say it but if you if you can see something else happening well you're going to believe it and this is why we're seeing now of course a change in what's being called the ufo subject that we're seeing things that now people are forced to rethink a lot of assumptions and And I'm going to go a little bit into that. Should we talk a little bit about the recent videos, go a bit into detail with that? For sure.

Yeah. So before we get there, what I want to talk about is let's go kind of chronologically from what I'll call the beginning of time. But really what that is, is pre-human, right? There were pretty well confirmed, pretty well accepted dinosaur life on Earth, right? And this is a whole host of various types of creatures, many of them that don't exist today. And the first kind of thing I want to talk about is this idea that there is one theory that is pretty well accepted that there was a meteor strike into Earth. You know, some estimate that it was as much as 65 million years ago. Right. So we're talking incredibly long time ago.

And that meteor strike hit and a very big piece of it hit in the Yucatan, which is in Mexico. And when that happened, it basically created such an impact that there was a bunch of fire and dust that was able to block the sun from actually getting into kind of the crust of the earth or actually hitting earth in the way that we think about it. And due to that blockage of the sun, there was a drastic cooling of temperatures on Earth. And then it ultimately led to the extinction of dinosaurs because they just couldn't survive in that climate. You know, one, just are you on the side of, hey, that is valid? Are you on some other theory there? And then talk to me a little bit about the science and the understanding around just the mechanism of a meteor impacting the Earth. And kind of, you know, we'll use that to then get into some of the other work that comes in in more recent times.

Yeah, I mean, look, I'm definitely a cataclysm proponent in that for a long time, geologists and biologists have never been keen on cataclysm as drivers in science. I mean, historically, there was a lot of rejection of the idea that capitalism played a huge role in the story of life. But we know today that they do. We know that there's been mega events, as you said, like the dinosaurs were essentially eradicated, or most of them. Certainly the larger dinosaurs and the remnants were forever changed. You know, we have, obviously, species that arise from them, but the large dinosaurs essentially died off. And the mammal age really began because of that. So without an event like that, you know, would mammals have got their foothold?

You know, would we have started on the path to humanity? Probably not. You know, we may have later on, maybe with the help of a different cataclysm. But without the removal of the top dog, the dinosaurs, it's hard to see that we would have ever developed, right? So we can see the importance of these cataclysms. And you can go back further and we have others. we have like you know there's the great dying there's when the seas uh no longer moved in the way they do today so the oxygen levels change we've had all these different kinds of problems

been huge die-offs and those have absolutely shaped you know the environment for us and allowed for our development so i think yeah i'm definitely i'm on board with that these cataclysms were were not only valid and real but hugely important to our story even though they some occurred hundreds of millions of years ago, you know, that they still have shaped the world to where we are now and allowed us to become, if you want, you know, at least for now, the sort of top dog. For sure. And in terms of the meteor impact, this really is, for those that have no scientific understanding or haven't looked at it at all, it's really just the idea that there are rocks or debris that are floating around in space and uh it's a collision right they're simply uh they're

on a trajectory that ends up intersecting with the um earth and uh it is able to make it through uh the atmospheric um kind of pressures and um and chemistry and ultimately strikes the crust of the earth right is that is that a fair way to kind of um describe what's going on with those meteor impacts yeah absolutely yeah we've got a lot of debris out there that's orbiting the sun as we are at various distances obviously we have the oort cloud much further out but we have the asteroid belt which is nearer to us so some of these these objects will come into the inner solar system at times we have of course comets as well on larger elliptical orbits but this is all material that's within our solar system and it's all essentially orbiting the sun so yeah every

now and again the orbit of one of these objects will just cross with us or will be moved by the come close to the gravity of say one of the larger planets like Jupiter and it'll destabilize an orbit and that we'll end up with an impact event and we know that roughly every thousand years we're supposed to get a fairly significant strike but you know it's every hundred thousand years or so that we get you know I guess a really large you know maybe a mile across kind of chunk possibly coming into this those are you know obviously much more irregular the smaller chunks yeah we do you know every thousand years or so again this is an average we'll get something that will you know could take out a you know could take out a town or something you know that if it landed in the

wrong place for sure and so um there are some very well-known meteor strikes obviously like the uh the one in the yucatan um but then there are ones that uh are only recently either being discovered or less popular um you know before we started recording we were talking about uh one that um was discovered in, uh, Antarctica, right. And it's this idea that, um, these researchers from Heidelberg university, uh, were able to gather, um, these tech tights, I think is how you say it. Um, and, uh, they were able to find these, uh, in a whole bunch of different, um, continents. Uh, but, but ultimately there is this massive meteor that appears to have struck, uh, earth, um, and, uh, specifically in the Antarctica region that created an impact similar to that of which,

you know ultimately killed off the the dinosaurs yeah that's right i mean as part of my current research project i was for reasons will come to i was focused on a period around 780 000 years ago and it turns out that there was extensive widespread destruction from a number of impacts asteroid impacts at that time then you've got um at least one that hit the americas another one in in africa another down oceania tasmania and yeah this really big one which hit antarctica and which you know one of the creators from from that chunk is 200 miles by 200 miles so many people imagine the scale of that so we're talking about a global bombardment absolutely devastating effects that you would have had you know extremely powerful tornadoes or not tsunamis and obviously also

earthquakes you have dust thrown up into the atmosphere which causes cooling um what they think is the impact the effects were lessened by the fact that it was an ice age at the time so for example you know the hits that hit antarctica obviously went down into the ice they did melt quite a lot of you know water they rose to sea levels um but things like tsunamis are drastically reduced right by the amount of sea ice that you've got so there was there were some factors that you could say allowed life to weather this storm better than during the impact that wiped out most of the dinosaurs so you could say we were kind of fortunate in a way that this was happening during an ice age and not at any other period got it and so explain a little

bit more this idea that the tsunamis can be reduced by an increase in ice it's just literally taking the the liquid and putting it into a more kind of ice structure and that means that there's less water uh for the tsunami well basically yes some of the the energy is going to be dissipated into the huge chunks of ice and the you know the fact you've got sea ice as well covering huge amounts of the ocean a lot of the energy that would normally go into the wave is being is being dissipated into that ice as it as it radiates out if you imagine this kind of this wave obviously it's it's it's connecting with ice you know so it's losing energy into the ice so unlike where if you've just got open ocean that wave moves you know fairly freely i mean

still losing energy as it goes but not to the degree where you've got enormous stretches of ice out there and icebergs and so this can be hitting all of this solid material as it goes and dissipating energy so in that respect it was lucky it wouldn't have ended up perhaps with these kind of you know kilometer high waves coming inland and wiping out you know entire vast regions it would have been significantly reduced i mean the the impact of dinosaurs you would have literally had you had like waves that were you know kilometers high or more i mean i may be under exaggerating it i know that they were certainly enormous waves once they came on to land the kind of energy you're dealing with with an object say two three miles across

hitting is just it's just a stunning you know cement waves that go around the world you know multiple times so sonic booms that go around the world multiple times uh firestorms of course you the dust that's thrown up you know it's simply a nuclear winter i mean it's it's it sort of boggles the mind to imagine the level of destruction that you're talking about and there may be other secondary effects which also turned up in my research is that it's possible that some of these impacts actually initiate things like magnetic reversals and other unexpected phenomena that comes out of them right so they're really really you know destabilizing for the ecosystem yeah and so you just mentioned it so let's go talk about the the geomagnetic reversals

um i know nothing about this so just kind of describe like what exactly uh is when you say geomagnetic what is that and then what is the uh the idea of a geomagnetic reversal sure i mean the current understanding is that due to the movement of molten iron in the core of our planet and also molten lava the movements of this material are causing electromagnetic fields so we have this almost like a dynamo effect that the earth is constantly generating regenerating its its own electromagnetic fields now these extend down to space and they have they have a kind of beneficial effect in some ways they they do block some of the the cosmic energies that would come into our planet so they act in a way a bit like a shield for our planet right obviously

we also use them for things like detecting where magnetic north is and all the rest of that but they have this effect in space as well one of the problems every now and again let's say every now and again usually it's supposed to be roughly every 200 000 years at one point is around two and every 200 000 years there would be a total reverse or a flip from north and south you know so they would flip over your north would now be your south south north and the exact position of the north and south poles would also shift a bit during this process right so the last time this fully happened was again 780 000 years ago period we've touched on but there's been many of these reversals you know going all the way back to the beginning of our planet and when they occur

the fields will weaken considerably first and this allows cosmic radiation cosmic energies to come into the system and now there's there are thoughts that this itself may be harmful to life you know Obviously, there could be more cancers. You know, there could be severe impacts on plant life, which then, of course, has an impact on other larger animals. So these events are problematic. Now, if it was to happen in our modern age, right, which they think it may be underway now,

there's signs that the poles are moving quite rapidly. They've been weakening considerably over the last few decades. But if there was, let's say, a really fast reversal, we would have extensive problems because, of course, it's going to impact all of our high technology, right? All the electric fields that we utilize, right? We're going to have a problem. So this could impact all of our satellites.

You know, again, if you take out our satellites, right, most of our high-tech world would sort of crumble, really, right? So it is something that is monitored, you know, carefully. There is a concern. We don't expect it to be so fast as to be that, you know, next year, you know, suddenly it flips. Usually it's over centuries, right? I mean, some of them have taken thousands of years,

but we know the shorter ones have been over a few centuries. But yeah, so these are essentially, again, mega events that happen on a fairly understood cycle. Got it. And so how well accepted is the idea that these geomagnetic reversals occur and are important to pay attention to? Yeah, they're well established because what we can do, you can find the reversed fields in rocks so when magma is produced say in an event uh when it

solidifies it will solidify with the field direction that was current at that time so when geologists look at ancient rocks you know they can basically they can find you know their different periods in time the magnetic field in those rocks is opposite to the direction that we have now and so over time they've been able to pinpoint fairly accurately when these past reversals have occurred now the last one last complete one was 780 000 years ago but there's been wanderings of the poles there's been partial reversals where there's been weakening and stuff but for whatever reason we haven't had one since then it was understood that they would be on roughly 200 every 200 000 years as a cycle but something disrupted it at that point right so

and it's never bounced back to the expected cycle for some reason. Got it. That makes sense. Okay, so let's go to kind of the origins of human history, right, or the Homo sapiens. How long ago are we talking about? Right. I mean, when you go to the earliest hominins, now humans are essentially part of the hominins group, okay?

So all hominins are humans. So we tend to think of humans as us, but that's a bit of a misnomer. Essentially, the earliest hominins lived around about six, seven million years ago. Now, these would have been, you could just about recognize them as being a human relative, but you're definitely thinking more of a kind of planet of the apes. These were like ape men, right? So the Australopithecines, for example, if you look at them, they were fairly short, you know like four foot odd you know and then they've got small brains like chimp size brains

but they have certain features to the skull and to their anatomy that that tells us they're on their way to being more like us and less like you know chimpanzees and orangutans so they have distinguishing morphology and cranial capacity that is increasing you know they are on their way towards it but these definitely you wouldn't think of as being you know like if they got on the bus you know you wouldn't be like that's a normal guy i'll sit next to him you know these they were quite recognizably more like ape men it it took several million years for the forces of evolution and there's many different ones actually involved and when we think of um natural selection of course you know best known force that essentially if you're suited to your environment

if you're well suited you're more likely to have offspring um if you're not you tend to die off and that's natural selection so a mutation that there are random and non-random changes in the genome which sometimes give new abilities which are beneficial or sometimes they're harmful and that these again have a role in who gets selected to be killed off and who survives but there are others we now understand that there's things like we have these feedback loops in epigenetics where you know you can be changed by your environment within a lifetime and that can be passed on to at least a couple of generations of your children so if you go through a famine right your system will change to adapt to that famine you know the way you burn energy but that can also be passed

down so that you know say your grandchildren are no longer living in famine but aspects of their biology are still adapted to being in a famine right so these are these strange sort of very fast changes that can occur we also have other things we have like translocation we have movements of of information in the junior genome which sort of jumps about these translocations which again these can change important aspects of an organism so we're starting to realize evolution is far more complex than simply selection right that's what we're getting at and that due to these process we end up with a a much changed you know ape man if you like by around two million years ago we have the beginnings of homo erectus now this is a will be a recognizable

human relative that it's you know we're starting to get the height we can start to get a larger brain it's certainly a lot smaller than ours about half the size but we're getting you know we're getting the features that would be more in common to our own you know species and they're really where the human story gets interesting because homo erectus are the first of these hominins to be really really global more or less we have them all throughout eurasia they're all the way down to southeast asia there's been a couple of skulls found in the americas which appear to be homo erectus but they haven't been well studied so at the moment that's you can say it's controversial you can't say outright that homo erectus were in america because you know

the science hasn't been done on those they're just anomalies again my favorite things um and then we have some evidence that that they moved through the islands of indonesia and southeast asia that we have them out across many of the islands flores has tools on it that date to over a million years ago so hybride is really a global the first global human right uh and then this further evolution goes on from there our own our own species you know homo sapiens we don't start to emerge until around about 800 000 years ago roughly got it and you know the way that i look at this and again this is coming from someone who is uh not nearly as educated on the topic as you are is there's really three buckets of um beliefs or story of the human origin right there is what

i'll call the evolutionary one which is uh we evolved out of apes and um uh and there's very kind of scientific, uh, reasoning, um, and explanation as to how, uh, homo sapiens eventually, um, you know, you know, kind of were the product of that evolution. Uh, then there is what I'll call more of a, uh, um, fictitious or, or, uh, religious kind of a story. Um, um, and this really is, uh, tied to the, uh, and I'll probably pronounce it wrong, but the Anunnaki, um, but this are, you know, these direct descendants from the gods and goddesses. And they really had come down to essentially decree the fate of humanity. Right. And this is depicted in a lot of the Mesopotamian art and kind of, again, very similar to what we would consider like religion today.

And then there is this hybrid that I think you are probably much more into with some of your research. But before we get to your specific research, one of the debates that I find fascinating, one of my favorite books is Guns, Germs and Steel by Jared Diamond. And I think that there's now starting to become a debate as to where the early humans as we know them, was this more in the continent of Africa? Is this more in the Asia and Australia region of the world? And how do you think about the geography of the origins of humans? And kind of which camp do you fall into? I mean, I have a book on the topic, I wrote a book called The Forgotten Exodus, the into Africa theory of human evolution, and the key being there into rather than out of,

because, you know, I went through the literature, again, through the academic studies, you know, look to see who is the leaders in these fields and to find out what really happened. And I had reasons to do that i was involved in some research in ecuador a mysterious megalithic site there which seems to be connected with a group of people called the lagoa santa which are the i would say is the earliest modern humans in the americas they were down in brazil at lagoa santa um it seems to be 14 to 50 000 years ago there's a number of sites there rock shelters whatnot it didn't add up with the conventional reason out of africa because these turn out to be a kind of aboriginal australian morphology like type people that so they shouldn't really be there in the

conventional model where now if people are familiar the idea is that supposedly modern humans came out of east africa in a wave around about 70 000 years ago and then populated i'd say eurasia eventually australia and last of all america right um it definitely isn't supposed to be like average australians you know down in america sort of 50 000 years ago so this is what led into my research what i found is and i've packed this up with with all solid peer-reviewed papers and whatnot you know i don't go out and do archaeology but what i found is the evidence really points to a homo sapiens population that is widespread now when i say homo sapiens a very archaic very early homo sapiens who maybe would even be given a different name we haven't given

them one yet but from around about 700 000 years ago or so we have these very archaic ancestors who are widespread they're not just in africa they are all across eurasia they are down into southeast asia i would say in australia that the evidence has been removed by huge sea level changes so we've lost a vast amount of land down in southeast asia and australia and also there's no reason why they wouldn't have reached the americas okay so i would say we have a a vast population and then what we have over time is climate changes we have um obviously catholic which will change the locations where you'd find the bulk of these people so they move both into africa out of africa you know probably into the americas out of the americas

as climate shifts in places or whether you know if there's a benefit to going somewhere else you know there's more food humans move we know that one of the most things about our species is we're highly adaptable we're highly mobile right we also find that this ancestral population begins to diversify uh we start to get neander the early neanderthal denisovans but they're all coming out of this lineage the large brain what i would call the ancestors of homo sapiens and that these are in my view subspecies which a number of scientists now recognize that what we're really talking about is homo sapiens neanderthalensis homo sapiens denisova and homo sapiens sapiens right because we all can all interbreed we know that we were in fact most of us you know have some level of

neanderthal or denisovan or a mixture of that and other hominid ancient hominids in us right because essentially we're one species yeah we don't have a problem interbreeding um there's minor issues it does seem sometimes that there may have been some problems but essentially we know that it was successful and basically what happens is at one point there is a cataclysm and this is at 73 000 years ago right which is the lake toga super volcano down in indonesia and the effects of this are none of these nuclear winter type cataclysms but it's fairly limited to the northern hemisphere now this is eradicating life in all across the northern hemisphere it's cooling the temperature and it's already doing an ice age you get acid rain your plants are dying plants die

animals die if animals die you know humans that depend on those animals and those plants die the water is poisoned right without sulfuric acid so you can imagine this is a cataclysm on an immense scale right what we have is a die-off of most of the hominins of eurasia now some of them are pushed to the west and some are pushed to the southeast i.e if you get below the equator you're okay so if you can get down into ireland southeast asia into australia you're all right and if you can cross the babel mandab straits and into africa from from the middle east that is yemen basically if you can get across into africa then again if you get to sub-equatorial africa you're safe now this is exactly what the evidence shows and we have a problem in science

right now where there's a dogmatic approach that reason out of africa is is a holy cow that cannot really be questioned every article on the subject will start with 70 we know that 70 000 years ago modern humans walked out of africa the rest of it we're still thinking about right but that bit is always beyond question. Now, when you do question it, you find that the evidence does not support it. And in fact, it's very clear we have refuges in Australia and refuges in sub-Equatorial Africa. And after this climate event dissipates around 55,000, 60,000 years ago, humans begin to repopulate Eurasia, right? But we were there before. It's a repopulating event. Got it. And so as you think about the evolution from that origin point, this is really where I think your research, you've come to the conclusion and have a whole bunch of evidence that we'll talk about.

um you kind of have this like divergence from the uh traditional thought of the evolution maybe just start with um kind of what the conclusion is uh and then we'll get into kind of what that supporting evidence that you have and the work that you've done to to kind of um back it up sure it's most basic i i go along with you can say the evidence for evolutionary processes as you can see as i've sort of said there you know i'm not disputing that we have various pressures and there's various factors of how the dna code itself functions that that cause evolution in species right so i'm not contesting that per se so the difference in my work is i say that up until around 780 000 years ago that as best as we can say you know

it's largely understood evolutionary forces at work now that doesn't mean that there's nothing else going on by just saying the evidence is not strong enough to flat out say anything else happens i do want to clarify one thing though if you're not familiar with the idea of panspermia that you know i am a panspermia theorist if you like that i accept the evidence that dna itself arrives on this planet from space that it doesn't emerge out of a rock pool here that life you know isn't just coming out of the dirt that's that's not my position that i agree with a number of very well respected academics who have theorized this you know it's not something i've come up with the idea that dna is a true code that you can even think of it as a um as a terraforming technology

right that you spray um you can spray little pills of full of material genetic material onto planet you come back you know in a few minutes you're gonna have life okay because that's what it does it adapts to its adapts to its environment changes that environment produces new gases new a new surface for the planet that that's my position i'd go along with that so i think dna contains a true code and then it's extremely intelligent essentially you could think of it as as really as um ai right and like half intelligent because it's being created by someone out there and has been sprayed down here then to some degree i would say it's a true ai right but so you have this code in there which we don't fully understand what it's doing but it seems to adapt to things

is very intelligent it guides our adaption it guides our evolution so that's an important consideration however at around 780 000 years ago we see a clustering of anomalies right and now i love anomalies that's my thing as we said earlier so when i see those i think aha you know what the heck is going on here why is it that science is stumbling over something and they say look we know that in the fossil record at around roughly 800 000 years ago we get a sudden acceleration in skull size in the cranial capacity of early humans it just absolutely rockets upwards okay beyond any relationship with body mass you know index it just suddenly starts rocketing up that was well understood but what we didn't have before of course was genetic technologies where

we could investigate what was going on at that time right now that of course has changed we've been able to go into the genome and explore. And what turns out is that there are a range of strange anomalies at that point. And I consider them to be fingerprints of engineering by an advanced intelligence. So that's fundamental. What are those anomalies, right? So pretty much just to summarize kind of where you come out on this is, there is a pretty well accepted and well-verified science that there was a change in skull size, and there's kind of this inflection point at one point in history. What now is starting to come out is it wasn't just the skull size change, but there was also a change in the genetic code of Homo sapiens. That change, I think

you are in the camp of saying that is less evolutionary, and it was likely that there was some external force that acted upon that change or created that change. Is that accurate? Yeah, it is. And one important thing to say here is that there's a number of leading academics. Again, I don't want to say that it's just me coming up with this on my own, right? Because you've got leading academics, for example, Professor Paul Davies, who is considered to be the man that humanity will turn to, you know, if we identify the presence of an extraterrestrial intelligence, right? So, you know, he's a leading astrophysicist, he's an astrobiologist, a mathematician, you know, an all-around great thinker. And he poses the idea that, you know,

alongside SETI research involving radio waves or looking at exoplanets, that we could look at the genome and see whether or not there's been a modification in prehistory, which may be carried out by a visiting intelligence and that this could be a signature a message in a bottle left for when a intelligence you know arises on this planet so and this is supported by quite a number of um very intelligent people in the world of science right so this is not some strange idea and in fact i managed to get a question across to seth shostak at the seti institute right and asking whether he felt that this was valid research and he was on a recent podcast he was talking to um a guy who's no scholar of mine now but anyway he actually clarifies that yes

you know he agrees this is legitimate research and it probably should be done but you know that he feels it's probably a waste of time that we won't find anything but mentioned so they would only take a couple of weeks to do this bear in mind how long has it took to not find radio waves so far right decades and that it will probably go on indefinitely without finding radio waves with millions of dollars going into that and yet these guys are telling us we can do a simple search of the genetic data that we already have it might take a couple of weeks and we could potentially find a confirmation of extraterrestrial visitation now doesn't it strike you straight away is that something worth doing well here's the the thought process is again it goes back to and why i wanted

to start the conversation off with uh i am of the belief that science should incur experimentation and that there should be no sacred cows, right? And the ability to expand our minds into various possibilities and then go put them through scientific rigor is really important, right? It's kind of a belief that a lot of innovation happens from people who are not from an industry, right? It's because it takes to think outside the box to actually get breakthroughs. And so when I think about kind of the work that you're doing, um i want to really kind of push deep on um you know this inflection point in the genetic code

what are the anomalies that that you've identified or others have identified um that that lend itself to say look there just is an inflection point there is a change in the genetic code at some point in history how long ago are we talking about and what are those anomalies sure i mean the key ones relate to again on your preface just a bit for people that aren't familiar when it's asked you know if an extraterrestrial intelligence was wanting to modify us in a way that could be detected or or was modified and you know as a happenstance it could be detected the changes would have to be in areas that are highly conserved and really in the non-coding dna now the reason for this is highly conserved means um essentially very rarely changing that

These are very important areas of code. Let's say the area that means you have a lung, right? If you don't have your lungs, you're not going to do well. So highly conserved code stays very stable. So that's why they say that, look, if there was a signature, we would expect it to be found in those regions. Now, that's really important because that's where we find a whole load of these anomalies is actually in the most highly conserved regions

of non-coding DNA, right? And this is a mass creature. What we find is, for a start, I'll give you a couple. There's these what's called HARs, and the name themselves is a giveaway. They're human accelerated regions, right? Strips of code that seem to have undergone anomalous acceleration of changes in the short times that there shouldn't be any change. I'll give you a more specific example.

We have something called HAR1, the first one of these that was detected. now they contrasted a 118 dna letter long piece of code across chickens chimpanzees and humans now between the chickens and the chimpanzees there was a two-letter difference so they realized that every 150 million years you get one successful mutation in this area okay so unbelievably stable you know very important if you if anything changes usually the organism dies right so then the contrast that chimps against humans who roughly five six million years or so of divergence right they expected there to be no difference because by these odds of 150 million years per letter but what they found instead was 18 letters had changed right so their minds were

immediately blown because you know there was just no explanation for that level of change and so when they ran the computation system so they actually software designed to compute this they came up with it being essentially a zero percent chance of this having occurred by any understood evolutionary mechanisms right so in other words they've got nothing right and then they're not offering any explanation for this they've now found several hundred of these and the ones they understand seem to be to do with fetal development particularly fetal development relating to the human brain which is again is this anomalous organ that no other primate has a brain structure anything like ours and in fact most of the the differences between us and other

primates are in genes to do with the brain right and on top of that we find a load of other anomalies some of these are in hrs are not really in genes okay they're in what's called um areas for control genetic expression right so they will change the function of a gene or turn it on or off but we also have genes that are anomalous there's um there's a strip of code from one gene which has been described as having looked as though it was snipped out of a longer gene copied and then put back in that sounds awfully like chris bar type technologies right and then there's a second of these where they said another brain gene which they said it appears fully formed suddenly out of non-coding dna as though someone's just created the gene from the important areas i think it's

for the neocortex folds in the brain so that you've got this gene just appears right out of non-coding material and does this incredible function for our brain and so you've got those and then you've got the fusion of chromosome two which occurs against 780 000 years ago this time when this rapid brain change is going on as we've mentioned and this one fuses on an active gene which is to do with the brain the reproductive system and the immune system again key areas that you might want to get that if you're working on a genome and that coincides with some what was assumed to be huge benefits because we know that there's a total replacement those underway of all the hominins on earth right that before we had all of that 48 as we understand it all primates

had 48 chromosomes right all humans today have 46 unless you have a genetic illness you know a condition that's risen from either a fusion or replication and this is this is a total replacement so you wouldn't expect this you would expect to have you say a small if it was a natural mutation right which would probably use neutral or usually negative then you would expect there to be a small subgroup of people that have 46 chromosomes and the greater group to still have 48 right that's logic so the way to explain this you think is you have to have a small group of people that all develop this in short succession so they become a breeding popular an insular isolated breeding population and it has to give them incredible benefits for it to persist and not to go back

into the background and for it to become so widespread right that everyone on earth ends up with this suggests that the changes were so incredibly beneficial that nobody else could compete with those that had this change right so that is another one of these glaring anomalies for like why how did that happen today we might look at that and say well hey we crisp our gene drives which is a cutting-edge technology that's just coming in now you can actually modify right in such a way that when two two individuals interbreed so you have a male and female usually you get you know a copy of information from each using gene drives you can make it so that your new modified information overwrites that of the other parent yeah so no matter you know

who the the human mixes with you know if it's another hominin homo erectus for example right the the child will be like the modified parent not a mixture of the two right and that also is another way you can eradicate species they're using for mosquitoes right so you can use that to ensure that everyone that's born from those unions will be the new kind of creature right so that's again it's fascinating to see that that's something we're doing now and that would easily explain this total replacement is that a use of a kind of a crisp bar plus gene drives technology right so we have these anomalies glaring anomalies there that are clustering in on this period 780,000 years ago when the brain suddenly goes into overdrive and we have all these anomalies

and it's just and as i say they're in the regions where the leading experts tell us that we should look if we were to look you know if we were to find extraterrestrial modifications those are the areas we'd look to and like leading academics are telling us we should look and see if it's there so all of that's happening and yet somehow that's been left to me you know instead of a leading academic which is the strangest part of it all really want to know who has the best url crypto.com that's right crypto.com they're a crypto platform with one goal motherf***ing mass adoption that's why we're all here we're trying to get crypto in every wallet. Crypto.com is helping people do that through buying, earning, lending, and card payment.

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kind of idea around what happened. What is the evidence that you've either located or the work that you've done to specifically identify that specific theory as to what drove these anomalies? Sure. I mean, again, it zones me in on that date as well, 780,000, which I don't think you find in any of the models, to be honest. Nobody else seems to give you a specific point, which is important. But the reason why I can do that is not only do we now have these anomalies, but I was already looking at that period because i was following some clues in a a set of mythology mythology but information that's come out of aboriginal australian stories mythology from which allegedly and again this is allegedly that they have an artifact or artifacts that they call

charinga right which is this a small supposedly stone-like object with some symbols on it which they consider to be the most sacred objects right and that this can in some way transfer information and that they would get historical information from this object now in its in the stories that they share their mythologies whatever you want to call it there is evidence that there was a visitation they claim you know there was beings that came from the Pleiades is one of the areas specifically mentioned the description what sound like wormholes like some kind of great tree trunk that connects us to this place or a tunnel or a rope right there's all sorts of things in there that were fascinating to me and on top of that there's descriptions of a craft that comes here

right and particularly a crystalline craft now you can easily start thinking okay you know it's just stories like as you said there's lots of mythologies you know Anunnaki the bible so what's different here well I thought there was there was enough in there that was specific that I thought well i can test this there's a description of this very large crystalline craft it's a it's why basically it's a living craft right to me i'm thinking self-aware ai because on the cutting edge of the ai world we know that the theorists are telling us they think in the future there will be vast silicon networks inhabited by self-aware ai or even uploading human consciousness into these silicon networks right that we know that's essentially where the arrow is pointing now being

up to date with some of that and understanding that when i hear about a living crystalline object i'm straight thinking hang on a minute this you know it might sound to some people like woo woo you know big crystals but if you understand that you realize that hang on we know this is the kind of thing we should expect to see from an advanced extraterrestrial civilization right so then those specific descriptions of this thing being in orbit uh breaking up material raining down and enough there that i think well if this is real i can check it in the geological papers yeah and see if there's anything that matches this now apart from you're thinking you know there's no way that that's going to be that even if it's real it's so long ago right 780 000 years ago that

you know i'm not confident it would still exist so i went through and it turns out that there's a 100 year long mystery in science about a material called australite tektite now australite tektite is essentially it's a 75% silica mixture with other aluminium and a wide range of other chemicals, magnesium. I think there's about a dozen or more chemicals in there. But anyway, it's particularly anomalous in that if you look at a map, I know I sent you across a map of this distribution field for it. It's enormous, right?

The material covers between 10% to 30% of the Earth's surface, yeah? Which when enormous, an impact, right? When we get an impact, even a fairly large one, the material usually is in a fairly you know a fairly tight cluster yeah we don't tend to have it that widespread in fact there's no other there's nothing comparable right that this material is widespread the other thing about it it comes in a unique form which is called a a button tektite now some of the material in other words came from space to form this particular shape it looks like a nose cone of a rocket yeah so nasa they looked at this because they understood

that this had to have been shaped by the aerodynamic forces of material passing through the atmosphere from space, okay? They also worked out that the source body was an object, at least a kilometer in diameter, that was in orbit around our planet when it broke up, and that the material carried on on a horizontal plane to the Earth, essentially in a decaying orbit, and came through a shallow angle, had secondary melting, which formed these button shapes, right?

but they initially was in a sphere and spheres spheres of liquid form in space so it was liquid in space in the vacuum in fact there's bubbles of hard vacuum in the material so we know they formed in space and then it melted on its way through and we have this material right across from the southern tip of australia in fact antarctica all the way up to southern china and laos you have this enormous distribution field so seeing that and understanding that hang on a minute this is the exact signature for the kind of event that's being described and then finding the date on it is 780 000 years ago right which is bang on when this these changes are happening right in the brain and the genome that we've got this what matches to this object that

they're talking about that's come through a wormhole and you know a living ship right so i'm thinking hang on a second this is this is crazy because there's not a natural solution to because asteroids, comets, and stuff, we understand what they're made of, right? We've done pretty extensive work on that. They do not mesh with the chemical composition of this material. That's the first thing. For example, asteroids, you can have silica up to around 60%.

You don't ever get it up to 75% silica. Also, comets and asteroids of the size that we're talking about here cannot be pulled into orbit by the Earth's gravity, right? In fact, they'd be accelerated past us, right, as they came that close. they would essentially be accelerated past or they crash into us yeah they don't end up in orbit so what kind of copier asteroid can slow down park itself in orbit right so this is a problem NASA don't talk about that they talk about what materials may be of how it rained down nobody

seems to tackle the glaring anomaly that this thing is parked in orbit yeah so that's an absolute mesh we've got these legends claim now we have that and then there is the second part which we touched on earlier which is that amongst the information is a claim of a multi-directional bombardment of asteroids around the same time five years later in fact it's quite specific um that there is this other bombardment and like i'm thinking there's no way you know that this has happened because i've never heard of it you know i think i'm fairly well versed in ancient events particularly big cataclysms you know it's a passion of mine i like cataclysms in history uh never heard of it so i went searching for that to see if there was any evidence of that part of this um this claim

and it turns out that in 2015 a team of geologists from a university in germany they found this multi-directional bombardment that we discussed earlier right so it's a very recent discovery so you know certainly nobody should have known about it you know in ancient times in australia among the aboriginals like it's a 2015 discovery and that these things were enormous as the one we talked about in antarctica right leaving a crater 200 miles by 200 miles you know absolutely enormous and this is also part of the claim that this event happens around the same time now what i didn't know is as well is that supposedly these impacts may have actually caused the magnetic reversal now this is being looked at at the moment that they think these huge impacts

are what initiated the sudden field reversal and are probably why we haven't seen one since, that this destabilized the normal cycle of the Earth's field. And so we're getting a cluster of mega events, right, right on that moment, which also happen to fit with this narrative that's coming out of an Aboriginal-Australian cultural setting and that they relate to an object which can communicate information. Now, what is that object?

I would posit that it's a Bracewell probe. And so one of the reasons why I wanted to have this conversation was you had said to me that there was essentially this identification or detection, right, and of an alien technosignature in the form of an extraterrestrial post-biological artificial intelligence craft. That's essentially what you're describing right now, right? Is that the thing that you have kind of created here and are in the process of testing is that what we see in those early stories or art, et cetera, end up coinciding with scientific revelations or studies around the breaking up of some material that ends up striking the earth, et cetera. Your claim is it's unlikely to be more of a meteor shower as much as it is a certain type of material that we previously had not seen on Earth before. Right. So it's something that came not from Earth. But how do you make the connection from that material to, you know, kind of the extraterrestrial post-biological artificial intelligence craft?

Like, what does that mean? And how do you make that connection from the material to that theory? Sure. I mean, because we would expect it to be a highly silica material. And I'd say this is way beyond the percentage of silica that's known in asteroids, meteorites or comets. So irrespective of the other compounds, I mean, there's other chemicals in there that make it unlike asteroids or comets. OK, but really the signature for me is this extraordinarily high level of silica, because if we have like a quartz crystal being the main component of a living AI craft, then we would expect melted silica to be the highest percentage of the debris from the destruction of a craft like that. and that's what we find in it so it's a it absolutely parallels what we should expect if we were to be visited by a craft like that i mean we're fortunate that it's destroyed in orbit for whatever exact reasons but if we hadn't been we'd have no no evidence obviously but the second

thing is again is that the fact that this can park itself yeah now i've looked at the astronomy and physics information on this and it is it is stated that these objects cannot end up in orbit and i just want to reiterate that to people that if they want to see if they want to posit a natural solution for this then you have to explain the physics right you have to say how can this vast object park itself in orbit yeah and then you have to deal with the fact that they also there's several papers pointing to an extra solar origin for this material due to detection of the effects of cosmic radiation on it and also some of the isotopic values in it the suggest here has come from outside of our solar system which again is important and so we have an object from beyond

our solar system that is unusually high in silica and that can stop and move into an orbit right and that happens to coincide with several other huge anomalous events right including this a few years later this bombardment which almost resets the earth and then strange changes in the genome of early hominins right and we have this connecting to an aboriginal story of an object which sounds like a bracewell probe which if people are familiar with bracewell probes essentially it's a again another software ai but on a smaller scale an object that can be left on a planet there's something called a sentinel probe that they can record they can maybe do other other functions but they can record and they can also interact at some point now the theory by by the

scientist bracewell was that these could even be used to make contact with a civilization if you send them out into space you leave the you know the hard ai on board they have volume and self repair functions and maybe even self-replication functions so you can have these things spreading out across the cosmos arriving on planets or even hiding in orbit and orbiting around planets watching them or being left and that you just leave them as a technology the technology is indistinguishable from background material so let's say you hide it it looks like a rock yeah now it's always been said that truly advanced technology would probably be unrecognizable to us and that's again that's understood in in these levels of theoretical sciences on these subjects

so you know that we wouldn't necessarily know what ai tech looks like so if you imagine a group of ancient aboriginal people encounter a graceful probe not knowing what it is and that this thing is able to communicate information i would suggest through a voice to skull type technology which we have now in mit and places they're working on these and they can transfer information starts telling them about it's how it's got here the background the story and they said it's a we might think of it as a sacred artifact a holy artifact it's put into the most you know the holy of holies um you're not supposed to look on these things right you're not only the highest initiated people and then if you can go near the thing right that's the cultural understanding

in particular, I guess, the Arenti people and another group that also have this belief, and that this object seems to then be producing valid information, which can be verified. That's the key bit. I haven't seen it. I haven't got in touch with it. So you can say, okay, maybe it's not there. I don't know. But the fact is, the information that I've looked at and I've used led me to these astonishing

discoveries that I never would have existed. I wouldn't even be looking for this if it wasn't for that. And it turns out you have at 780,000 years ago, all of these events, this strange object in orbit, the changes in the genome, the bombardment, and the magnetic reversal, all on 780,000 years ago. And it's almost extraordinary that we don't have that as a well-known discussion, you know, like the dinosaur subject. The fact is, there was mega events going on, and they're not well-known. It's really bizarre. Like I said, even as a theorist in these subjects, I hadn't heard of any of these until I started doing this research. It was really extraordinary.

Yeah. And I think, you know, as I look at this, right, you spent many, many more hours than me on this. But the way that I break down kind of the work you've done so far is you have taken a pretty well-established, accepted scientific fact around some of the materials, some of the bombardments, et cetera. And then you have also used what I'll consider more theoretical constructs, right? So whether it's somebody else's, right, in terms of the methodology that other people presented or things that you have and where you've come to a conclusion is those things when overlaid on each other all intersect with at the same time period as a number of very interesting anomalies that can, again, be identified and are fairly well accepted from a

scientific standpoint. I guess the big question that I have for you, right, is because when you combine well-accepted fact that has been established through scientific rigor with things that are more theoretical, you introduce the idea of like a confidence level, right? Because the theoretical component of this ends up being harder to back up with supporting evidence because you're still putting it through the scientific rigor. What would you put the confidence level you have in terms of kind of this theory being accurate and in the future being able to prove some of it to a greater extent than we are today? well look i'm happy for people to look at the the mythology part of it if you want as being simply something that got me interested in the topic now whether it's real whether there's really this artifact and it can do all this you know i can't say because again you know to be

objective i didn't see the object you know i didn't have an experience with it right so i don't you could say okay well even if you discount that you're still left with these genuine you know as say rigorously scientifically tested anomalies which are clustering together which is an anomaly on an anomaly right because when you get those kind of things happening at the same point in time again that's a red flag for something strange is going on and then on top of that you can scientifically evaluate things like how would you you know why is this object made of uh materials that aren't typical right for other bodies in our solar system what causes it to stop an orbit these the testable right same as with the the genetic data again that's testable because you can if you

infer that there's been possible modification now what would be required is geneticists to spend some time focusing particularly on changes that happened around 780,000 years ago and on those anomalies the HARs and also on the fusion event right these are testable and on top of that not only testable if you really think about it I mean for anyone out there using the genetics field but finding the fingerprints of master geneticists right and just as we're going into the genetic revolution with chris bar if we can find the fingerprints of master geneticists who could who could make humans out of these early hominins right that's got to be invaluable information you know if i was in the genetics field i would want to hone in and see what did they do because we're

about to open pandora's box right we all know that yeah we're going to start modifying babies and we're going to start creating new humans wouldn't it be nice to have a starter in that from an extraterrestrial intelligence that knew what the heck it was doing and was able to go in there and almost play us like a piano at the code level right like this these code these master code breakers you know they went in changed humans if that is valid yeah and if the evidence is really pointing to that bear in mind there's a zero percent chance of these changes by known evolutionary means zero so far no other solutions except for intelligence being involved yeah that if we can go in and find what they did and understand it maybe we can evade the horrors of experimenting

on humans with all these technologies and know what the hell we're doing right and actually fix problems instead of create problems so i i think there's a financial and ethical reasons for why we might want to check this you know really important reasons and that we have valid science there we already have these hars identified we have the knowledge on chromosome two fish you know it's there right i'm not a genesis i cannot go to the lengths i would like right to validate this what i would like is that the engagement of people who are capable of now going in there and saying hey yeah actually you know what this does look like the signature of you know what we would do if we had the know-how this is how we would change a human right because that's something

that there's people capable of doing and again with this object astronomers physicists should be able to look again at that australite material and say hey could this be the composition of an advanced craft because surely our space scientists right and our you know designers and stuff wouldn't you want to know what an extraterrestrial race builds that ship out of right so again these these are huge drivers that if people take this seriously and look at it you know the potential benefits are enormous versus the costs. I mean, we already have most of the data there. So the costs are minimal. The payout could be enormous beyond imagining. So what is your thoughts on CRISPR technology kind of as we go forward? Is this something that you're in support of and you

think should be encouraged and experimented with? Or are you more on the side of, hey, this is very dangerous and we should be incredibly cautious and probably shouldn't push the pace of innovation there it's definitely dangerous there's no doubt it's dangerous but i mean it's also inevitable i don't think any controls will ever stop it completely and we've already seen that you know a scientist in china started changing some babies he didn't have permission he just did it right um i think there's i think there's been recently some testing done with merging chimps and human dna and stuff like so this stuff's going to happen whether i agree or not but i actually would support in a way i think particularly if we want to be a cosmic

civilization if we want to go out into space right we are going to have to use these technologies i don't believe it's possible for a homo sapiens to go out and colonize space we suffer with incalculable conditions even just going up and being in the space station right you start to basically degrade away here um and then we have links with the not the earth's field but the earth's rhythms which mean that if you were to relocate to mars it's not clear that we could even reproduce there our fertility and stuff is maybe we won't actually be able to have children on another planet how do you colonize worlds right if your bones degrade you start getting weird illnesses you can't have children at some point we have to look to say look if you want to go

into space it's not just about the technology you take with you it has to be the organism itself has to be changed it has to be adapted for the environments it's going into so i support that As long as people are happy to have therapies done for them to be an astronaut, I don't know whether I'd say it's right to experiment on a fetus and say, we're going to engineer the next generation of space people, but without asking them, we're just going to change the fetus's genome. That I wouldn't agree with.

Obviously, that's very much an ethical issue. But if there are genetic therapies which an adult can say, well, okay, I'm willing to have that done, I want to go into space, then yeah i think that is the only way that we are going to explore space what is the issue with uh kind of the human as an organism uh in space is it like a radiation thing or what exactly is um causing that degradation of the human organism uh when gravity one of the major i mean we're likely to end up in a an environment with our exact you know the exact strength of gravity

that we have here that's that's a major issue for us you know we are well acclimatized to our also to our the breathing environment i mean let's say that you find a a planet that has a different balance of gases right but it's not completely poisonous but but you would struggle to breathe and the gravity was maybe 50 percent right and then it's it's time moving around the star is different you know and the day is a different length like we have a lot of problems that all of our natural rhythms will be thrown out yeah our breathing can be a problem so say maybe reproduction is a problem we're gonna have all these issues right uh your bones your bone basically you start to you lose bone density so you have all these problems if you can modify

humans for that environment then you can maybe overcome that we can change you can change a fundamental level our requirements for breathing you know for our reproductive system there's all sorts of things that we can potentially do if we have a thorough understanding of the the dna code and these central parts of the genome, particularly these highly conserved regions. Because if you start playing with highly conserved regions, now if you bear in mind that through natural mechanisms, it takes 150 million years for one successful mutation

in some of these areas. Obviously, they're very dangerous areas to just play with. If you don't know what you're doing, you're really going to kill almost every experimental fetus. But if we can understand those areas, you can you can really change almost anything about us you don't need that much about hybrid humans in my my work i don't necessarily splice a lot of alien material i'm not you can hybridize with other species like you can put in some genes from a fungus some genes from a cow whatever yes

some degree of that but i think mainly what we're going to be looking at is modifying the code at a very fundamental level and not necessarily having to hybridize too much although that that will be part of the story yes we're going to take things that we think are beneficial you know you might take a gene from a squid because it gives you a benefit to live on mars right that for some reason it gives you a benefit so yeah we'll put that in but a lot of this i think is yeah modifying the code i broadly support it as long as it's again done in an ethical setting but i mean the ethics are complex because you're not just changing yourself if you have children of course you've decided for your children that they will be homo sapiens 2.0 right that they don't get a say that

even though you're not modifying the fetus if you're modifying the parents and they have offspring the offspring have had that modification like it or not right so obviously the the ethics of these processes are northerly complex but their nature changes us without asking so yeah and part of this i think is um there's two components in my mind one is just the end state Right. Eventually we will be genetically modified, you know, kind of these weird combinations of science, technology and humans. Right. And there's some very easy, uncontroversial things like, hey, if we could present prevent disease or we could present prevent some sort of genetic issues, that would probably be a positive thing. Right. Especially we could do it with no side effects. But there are kind of much larger arguments around just, hey, humans want to run faster, jump higher, be smarter, you know, kind of the augmentation. I think the controversy is really how do we get to that end game? Right.

And so if you look at China versus the U.S., you know, I'm probably of the mindset that China has a significant advantage when it comes to biotechnology, you know, the biohacking, the CRISPR technology, etc. Because frankly, they're just willing to do things that here in the United States were either one unwilling to do or two we we think is unethical and they have no problem with it. It's a cultural difference. And so, you know, again, it goes back to the idea that the group that has the ability to provide resources to something, to have their smartest people working on it and to encourage experimentation, they're just likely it's the probability that they're going to make faster progress because they're spending more time on it. yeah absolutely and i think that we probably will see china in some ways leading this and i think again i don't want to turn it into the way different cultures think but we know that the chinese culture historically is about kind of what's good for china you know he's thinking within china's boundaries but obviously taking using resources and relationships to increase that and not detect sometimes borrowing ideas and whatnot whereas the us europe and stuff we tend

have this this mocks about this global idea that you know we're making this global community and and um the way we think is very different i think china is more insulationist in that respect they're not really although people say they're looking at they're going to invade us i don't think so if you look at china then what i can say more about is you're asking for china and china keeping you know its own its own culture and its own ways distinct right whereas we like the side of globalism and you know they're completely different i feel that within that the chinese mindset is very different and that yeah they are they are willing to push this boundary and we know that historically even that they were ahead of us in science if you're back centuries ago they gave

us gunpowder and stuff you know they had um scientific revolutions that were unparalleled right in the world beyond at the times they occurred right again like the arab world at one point again was well ahead you know in the sciences with medicine so but historically yeah i think that the culture favors that kind of progressive thinking in some ways in other ways not i mean there's ways that you know where we wouldn't probably say oh that's really progressive in China but in the tech and in this you know in the biohacking and stuff I think that yeah they're going to really leap ahead and clearly again in your area as well obviously we're seeing that in blockchain tech and the Chinese rule yeah I see them ending up with some of these yeah

these kind of super people probably ahead of us and I think a lot of these millionaires in China looking to and also that the idea that you know that having your children afford a different way as well the idea you know that we know historically that you know the sun had to be the dragon guy and all the others that they're kind of thinking about making the best children and the one child policy which led to you know that what we had to have a boy because a boy is better for various purposes you know so that kind of thing as well which we we wouldn't be so familiar with in the west right which leads to the idea that you know there's also this i think there is that focus now they're going to to make that perfect child you know that's going to be the best the strongest

the fear so it's again fits with the cultural background so it's i wouldn't be surprised if we get left behind in that i mean as i say they already got that experiment where the chimp and the human genes are mixed that was in china because the the guy is actually a u.s scientist i think he couldn't do it in the u.s because of the regulations so he just moved the experiment to china and obviously the other experiment i mentioned where chris bar was used to modify a couple of babies there so it's already happening right so it's sort of inevitable that unless there's a change in the mind state in the U.S. and in Europe, that we will be left behind by the Chinese

and that they will have genetically enhanced people, you know. So what do we do with that? I mean, I guess we have to in some way. I don't know. What is your thought on that? Do we go with it or do we stay conservative? Look, I tend to think that there's a middle ground, right? So it doesn't have to be binary. And what it is, is you basically create opt in programs, right?

There's a lot of people who are more than willing to opt in in exchange for whether it is payment, whether it is the potential to solve a problem they have. Right. Whether it is they have a disease or something like that and they're willing to do more experimental treatments or even there's plenty of people who literally would be willing to take the risk uh, because they would like to, uh, run faster, jump higher or be smarter. Right. And kind of the augmentation stuff. Um, but, but I'm more of the belief that, uh, every human individual, uh, should have free choice and should be, uh, allowed to kind of take the risks that they want as long as they're educated on it. Right. So, so I don't think that it's a thing where you can just blindly, you know, one day wake up and say, Hey, I want to, uh, you know, get CRISPR done. But, but I do think that if there was some sort of educational, um, course or something that

somebody went through and they were very you know um kind of uh blatantly and simply uh told what the potential upsides are and what the potential risks were and then you make a decision for themselves right and kind of the government should stay out of their lives frankly well if we're okay with the idea of sending people one way to mars right which is something that there's been obviously a lot of volunteers have said that they would go on a one-way trip to mars yeah with the sort of mars one and all this right um and obviously spacex and other people are going to try it yeah but we know there's a huge chance that that first mission is a disaster but we would allow people to go into that disaster right because it's in the name progression and they

want to do as you say they're choosing to go now if we're happy to send people on what is probably a do you know a disastrous student mission to mars the first man mission maybe successful but i think most of us would be conservative in that thinking that the first time probably not good but what if we could say to those people well hey look obviously you're willing to throw your lives at this you know we can also offer you gene therapies that will give you a better chance at least of surviving on mars now isn't that the right thing to do i think that's the right thing to do because if they're going to be probably stuck there and you know that they're going to struggle with the gravity the atmosphere is it any more radical to offer them these changes than

it is to send them to live on an alien planet without any real way of surviving there beyond being in a bubble, which could fail at any time. I think that, again, if you're willing to throw people into what looks like disasters, why not let them have the choices to do other things paralleled

to that, which I think that these China technologies are parallel, no more risky or crazy than sending people one way to Mars. Absolutely. And look, we could talk about this stuff forever. One of the things I want to make sure we talk about before we go is you know, a lot of what we're talking about here, it's not lost on me and probably not lost on you

that either one, it's unpopular to there's some people who just kind of write it all off and say that's just crazy talk. And then three is, there's actually a lot of establishment or incumbent organizations, scientists, etc, that that will go to great lengths to prevent the spread of the information, because it potentially threatens their position of power, importance or kind of work. You've actually had a number of occasions, certain levels of censorship that you've dealt with. I think recently there was a situation where you were cited in an article and then all of a sudden, you know, it was kind of deleted. And it was, you know, really that publication saying, hey, he's not a professional anthropologist, right? You know, you can't use work. Maybe just

talk a little bit about your experiences with trying to share these ideas and what you've run into both positive you know from the supporting side and then also negative from the obstacle side sure i mean i have i've said i have some quiet supporters i do talk to some scientists who are helpful and they give me feedback on things that i do but mostly in quiet because again it's detrimental to them to be publicly associated with me right because because i'm dealing with radical ideas or ideas that aren't in the consensus um so i understand that it's sad but i understand that i understand why they don't want to be publicly associated with me in my work right which again but that's a cultural problem and then we have yeah of course the media

which is a big issue because without getting this kind of information out into the media for dissemination then there's no pressure for scientists to look at it because then they go well you know most of them won't even hear of it for a start you know um obviously the way the framework works usually discoveries are supposed to come from a university or a foundation press release goes to the media then they publish an article you know make it popular in which case it brings more support to that research etc if you're on the outside of that me contacting journalists usually results in one of two things either total silence probably goes into the spam box you know whatever um or a reply of you know not really interested kind of thing because

it's not what they're expecting right they're thinking oh it's um some crank or whatever you know that uh they don't get as far as to even know if you have real evidence right you'll never get to that because you're not phd so and so from university such and such right the door closes but the exception i had there was i had a scientist who was also a science journalist who saw the validity in my work now doesn't mean he agreed with all of the you know the hypothesis but he saw the validity and he saw that i was using you know peer-reviewed academic sources right which is gold standard sources uh i'm not going out pretending i'm doing archaeology or genetics like on my own right there's none of that when you say pseudoscience it's not pseudoscience

because if it's pseudoscience, then the sources I use are pseudosciences, which is ridiculous because most of them are the leaders in their fields, right? And so this guy, he wrote an article for Forbes, and that went out last December. And within a couple of hours, it had been spiked by senior editors and deleted, and he was told never to refer to me as a source again because I wasn't a suitable academic source for the story. And it's like, as he said, it doesn't make any sense

because obviously if there is a criticism of the work that's the place to have it is you put it in public scientists can see it they can clarify in the comments or with a response article right saying oh fentanyl is wrong because of this this and this and to have that discussion which is as he said is a legitimate process right you have the discussions the fact that you're silencing that conversation is ludicrous that's obviously censorship right um and the fact was that they have well as you know like in forbes there's loads of articles right which are opinion pieces which are not coming from like the leader in an academic field right that you'll have religious conversation where people just come out with whatever thing they believe and that's fine but when you're

dealing with a a sacred cow as i was because it was about out of africa and challenging the reason out of africa that was no no no no that that cannot go out there and that was just spiked it was so rapidly that you know almost my head spun but you know a couple hours later someone has just gone in there and spiked it and said get that off the website no explanation and even a leading anthropologist said to me like he was baffled he's like well they didn't even put like an apology to readers that we've deleted this article because we think it's it's you know got something wrong with it nothing he said that's always like offensive to the readership because you're putting it you're saying it's good enough to publish and then someone else has come along

and saying get it off there delete it with no explanation right and again this leading was actually baffled. He said he'd never heard of that happening to anyone. Right. So think about that. For sure. And I think that part of what you've experienced, we're seeing with what is now coming out of the shadows with more of like the UFOs and Area 51. And it almost feels like there is more acceptance or responsibility being taken, whether it is individuals that have had these experiences and are able to verify or support those claims? Or it is the U.S. government themselves, right, in releasing various videos or kind of details. What's your take on kind of these individual stories that we're hearing and kind of why now some of this stuff

may be coming out and maybe becoming much more accepted and less taboo? Yeah, I mean, it's interesting we have this phenomenon now where the last couple of years major media platforms are tackling subjects like you know ufos um also now possible alien materials you know debris that may come from an extraterrestrial ship um but you know would you have thought you know three four years ago that you'd be seeing articles in like the new york times they were talking about um ufos and, you know, major media platforms talking about alien debris. I mean, it's quite a sea change, isn't it? I mean, it's –

Even the Harvard professor who says, you know, the UFO that came into the solar system and then kind of left, you know, all of this stuff is – it is getting what I would consider valid media attention and coverage, and I think it's driven partly by curiosity and partly by the fact that it's hard to ignore at this point. It is, and right. And the fact that we've got, you know, the head of the Harvard astronomy saying that, you know, this Oumuamua object could have been a probe, you know, an alien probe coming through our solar system. I mean, that's astonishing.

And again, some people are saying that he was doing that just for media attention. But as he pointed out, he put it into, you know, some obscure science paper and that he hadn't even put it into the public. It was a journalist or someone stumbled on it and realized that, you know, that this would make a good story. But, you know, it was a serious science paper. He wasn't trying to get any attention or anything, right? He noticed that it had anomalous characteristics, that it was unusually reflective. It seemed to be spinning in a certain way, which, again, suggested it was unusual. It had this red coloring.

It was covered in a lot of what they think is metallic kind of debris. And then it accelerated as it moved out of our solar system. Another thing that I want to highlight there, because I find it really fascinating, I suspect, again, could be that it's some kind of panspermia machine. And the reason why I say that is because when it came through the solar system, it doesn't just pass by Jupiter or something. What happens is it entered our solar system basically between the orbits of Mars and Earth, and it crossed the plane of our solar system between these two planets,

the orbits of these two planets. now that's awfully coincidental because mars and earth are the only two planets in our solar system that are quite obviously capable of supporting life right that they have water they have you know a soil which we now some martian soil could grow things in it we think there's probably bacteria in fact you when the news came out didn't it recently that they're admitting that decades ago there was the signature for life on mars we now have multiple signatures level the methane emissions we know there's liquid water there's frozen water there's this to say there's past soil sampling with what seems to be life there's pictures of what look like lichens

on rocks basically you've got what look like mushrooms growing on rocks so isn't it funny that this object just happens to pass between the only two planets in our solar system that look like they can support life so if you were sensing for life that's basically where you'd want your probe to go but also if you were just distributing life you know if this is something that's launching out spores bacterial spores or something again we may have these raining down on us from the machine but either way you know he was willing to point out that this had characteristics that suggested it could be an extraterrestrial technology passing through our services and that's that's astonishing to see to see someone of that caliber saying that and he also goes on

to say as well which is a key key quote i kind of use about says that you know when we're faint although that we should have evidence among paraphrasing is although we should always have evidence of things if we find an anomaly we should recognize the anomaly right and otherwise how do you progress anything right because unless you're going to say look this is super weird let's throw some science at it right you know let's work out what this is if you just say well it's weird now everyone look the other way until it's gone you know pretend it's not there right but what the heck is that so that's what we've been doing with anomalies right for centuries we've been doing let's pretend they're not there and i think that what we're seeing now is a sea change and it's

like well look there's all these anomalies you know there's these what people call ufos there's strange things flying for our solar system there's you know abnormalities in the genome there's all these anomalies hey why don't we turn and face them do some really good science and find out what the heck they all are you know whether it's psychic powers i don't care you know whatever it is you know no matter how strange we should throw good science at them until we can either explain them or explaining them away right and that's how it should work and ufos is now fine again like ufos is a term i don't i don't like to use right but um you sort of have to like i'm not very interested in ufos i'll start by saying i'm definitely not a ufologist i hate the term

ufologist and ufology because if you think about it um you wouldn't refer to an underwater swimming thingologist right but you'd have a marine biologist yeah we all know what marine biologist is an underwater swimming thingologist is an unbelievably vague and just sounds ridiculous okay ufologist is the same really you've got unidentified flying object ology you know what the heck is that right and a ufo contains 95 explainable phenomena so misidentifications of airplanes um balloons satellites right so i'm not particularly since i saw ufo i think well probably a satellite because most people don't even look up right so what do they really know about the things in the sky yeah almost nothing right so what i'm interested is is where the

filtering is being done so if an organization like move on the mutual ufo network if they take the cases of the ufos and they go through them right they get rid of all the the junk what you end up with is something like five percent yeah that remain and that these are anomalous phenomena these are basically anomalous aerial vehicles aavs and anomalous air phenomena aaps now that's what i'm interested in these anomalous aerial vehicles and phenomena okay the five percent not interested in ufos i'm not a ufologist and as you can see i i'm quite clear that this anomalous phenomena i'm interested in because anomalous that is an initial identification so they're no longer completely unidentified because if you can find structure or propulsion or you know cloaking tech

or something but you're now starting to get an identification on it right you know it's a craft at that point yeah it's not just oh a light in the sky what's that oh it's a ufo if you can tell me no it's triangular it was metallic it's got a radar signature it moves like this right well okay you've identified that it's a type of anomalous craft right so now i know what's it made of where it coming from how does it move now you've got something to work with and the same anomalous phenomena that if an object can just vanish or reappear you know whether it's a glowing orb which some of these things are these glowing spheres which seem to just disappear change shape right that's anomalous if it can disappear or it can change shape then okay it's not a chinese balloon

right it is it's not a satellite you know so again i think people need to understand that The ufology, that really is such a nebulous, vague thing. There's a reason why people laugh at you if you say, I saw a UFO. Now, if you could say to them, I saw an anomalous aerial vehicle, they'd probably stop and think, well, what's that? And ask you, why did you say that? You'd say, well, because it was teleporting. It was teleporting around the sky.

At that point, you've got someone's attention in a different way to, I saw a light and I think it was something. What what what's your take on a kind of intelligent life outside of birth? So you've got a lot more kind of study in terms of how there's been an intersection with that intelligent life and human origin and the things that we talked about. But where do you come out? Is there, you know, multiple colonizations out there of intelligent life? And it looks like the movies, is it something else? Like when you kind of think about the possibilities, where do you have the highest degree of confidence?

First of all, I would probably err on the side of what some of the leading theorists in the field have said, which is they suspect that the majority of truly advanced, you know, far advanced alien civilizations will probably be post-biological, that at some point they will either they will upload their their awareness their consciousness their intelligence you know into these vast silicon networks or that they will go extinct leaving behind the machines they created right robots ai whatever so you've got two different ways in which converges where you end up with ai okay and technologies that will be roving space also that if you're if you're running an advanced seti program on an alien world and you're more

advanced than us in fact even at our level really you're sending out robots we're exploring mars with robots we're sending out robot probes to look at meteorites and stuff but so you're most likely to encounter a robot right or an ai and probably from multiple worlds i think the galaxy is probably full of ai probes from different civilizations and at this point the galaxy is old enough that that these ai probes could be on every single every single star system of the milky way right you can start with that that's a totally reasonable prediction because even at sublight speeds there's been enough billions of years right for probes to reach every single star system in the galaxy now if you start with that that counteracts a lot of the the kind of arguments

that people give you and say well you know things don't move fast enough to visit us at home please factor in time right because time is the fixer of all those problems right it doesn't matter how slow it's going if you can give it a billion years to reach yeah so i suspect that we're going to mostly be encountering ai out there and that there's probably all kinds of technologies left by past civilizations and current ones now that they are likely to be biological intelligences still there as well out there and will they connect with each other i think it's very likely because again if their probes are bumping up against each other right there's a good chance that these civilizations get to know each other and if they have technologies like let's say

real light speed or wormhole travel or like the alquebra drive this you know using warp bubbles where you basically bend space around the craft it says you go into time travel yeah so when you get into those kind of technologies you're not only closing the distances but you're in fact you're sort of time traveling as well so there's if they've developed those exotic transportation mechanisms there is no reason why after probes meeting probes that you can't set up a meeting right so i think there's a good chance we're going to find if we get out there and we contact or if we are in contact from here that we'll find there are networks or alliances or trading you know all of that i think that really is out there now maybe in pockets of the galaxy or it may be

the entire galaxy is networked you know obviously we can only speculate you know we can have hints obviously people say that they've had contact experiences and you know in that information if you take it as being valid often it's described as there's being different kinds of beings that people see now whether those are psychic experiences or some echo from our dna or what they are i don't know for sure but you know if any of them are legitimate they tend to point to there being multiple kinds of intelligences they're interested in in each other and us but again you know i recognize that those for most people are just too speculative but i do think the contact experiences and what we call abduction are interesting even if you don't

accept them as being alien because you've then you've still got to say why is it that say tens or i don't know maybe hundreds of thousands or millions of people around the world right are having experiences where they feel that they're in the presence of an alien intelligence and that it's communicating with them usually through telepathy or whatever and that why is that happening to certain people you know because if that is not contact with uh another intelligent shouldn't we want to understand why say some of our greatest minds like astronauts you know people in the military um leading science why they would be having that experience like what is going on you know are all these people really crazy because they seem to go on with their lives

working you know producing for the society and being productive citizens so it's not mentally honest that we would understand them as right because they're these are mostly fully functional people so we should want to know you know what's going on here let's investigate if it's a real psychical contact from another civilization then hey let's try and pick up the phone and if it's not shouldn't we be trying to find treatment for these people right so either way but i do think that you know that's worth exploring because it's the only indicator we have about what kind of civilizations are out there other than that we have to speculate and say that science predicts mostly ai but also the possibility of networked connections between civilizations because it's

been so much time and you know as long as they've got the the wormhole tech look just to clarify on wormhole travel again people might say that's impossible recently there's been a study done on could you use black holes to travel and it turns out that as long as a black hole is large enough and slow enough rotating that you can pass through the event horizon fairly safely without being ripped apart and they suspect that the black hole at the center of our galaxy that sagittarius one that that could be suitable for going through so where did that go maybe that takes us to the andromeda galaxy or something we don't know but you know could there be civilizations out there that have figured that out that you can use stable black holes for travel and they're able to modify

them in some way that they they can pass through them to specific locations or they can engineer these wormholes these kind of you know the einstein rosenberg bridges through space time that they can pull two locations together they develop the exotic exotic um materials that are required to open these you know again we know that in very you know speculative theory that these are possible so let's say another species has a million years more than us or 10 million years more than us and they they invent this then they can be anywhere in the in the galaxy right they can be on our moon they can be you know the other side of the galaxy they can be anywhere so i do think we've got to remove the artificial limitations of human level thinking from

extraterrestrials because i see it all the time people say well you know we can't do that or we can't get there fast enough you can't stop thinking like that because in a million years we won't have any of the problems that we're thinking about now right i i i think you got of point, man. You know, it really does come down to that. The part I like about this entire conversation is you are very self-aware in the idea that at the end of the day, we should experiment with everything. We should research everything and to take, you know, what in your words, radical ideas and put them through scientific rigor. If we come out on the other end and they're disproven, then they were simply incorrect thesis. Right. But if we come out the

other end and they end up being valid with supporting evidence and kind of widely accepted, then they were just simply a new idea that hadn't been realized yet. Right. And so we the human race is incentivized to explore all of these radical ideas and then to ensure that we put it through that scientific rigor. And so although you probably don't get nearly as much attention on the work that you're doing uh as you'd like you know i think that um it's important work and and there should be many many more people like you that are not only working on the same types of problems and thesis but also should have their own radical ideas um to go out and to explore so just i'll add as well quickly as well keep in mind that um the ttsa you know to the stars with tom

de long and these guys from the government are working together you know who are behind all of these big articles they're basically saying the same sort of thing that i'm saying look they're saying that there is a genuine phenomena right behind these craft and objects in our skies that they may be extraterrestrial they're saying they've got material from these that they think is engineered not on this world right they're telling us as well that if you look at tom long's books his um secret machines books he claimed that it's likely we were engineered by extraterrestrials like all the things that they're saying which are in the major press which people are seeing i'm saying but the major difference right is i'm giving physical evidence i've got

physical debris which has been well tested right i've got the genetic anomalies again they've been well explored um so i'm actually the irony is because i'm not famous and because i don't have millions of dollars to get a pr team right the people won't know of my work but i'm actually offering testable right evidence whereas they're offering quite speculative evidence at this point you know we've got pictures of what looks like a stone and we're getting told that they have these other evidence yeah which we haven't seen but i'm actually saying look i'm putting it out there i'm saying look this is the you know i've got another book coming out but i put it out there ready you know that these are the anomalies this is where they are this is the material it's tested

it's already been tested you know but it's quite strange that you know one one is getting the new york times because of who it is and the better evidence is virtually unknown because i'm not as famous and i don't have the finances to pay a pr team to put this in the new york times basically for sure well look and i think that again it comes down to you've got so many people who are all hitting on uh the same thing or around the same thing that you know eventually we we end up making a uh a breakthrough um you know and uh uh in my personal opinion um you know what you said earlier just rings so true. There are two existential questions that every single human in their lifetime will ask. The first is, is there life after death or is there some sort of

environment after death? And the second is, are we alone? Are we the only intelligent life form here or are there others? And I think that the work that you're doing to focus on that latter is important. And frankly, look, if you or somebody else is able to concretely establish that there is intelligent life somewhere else outside of Earth, it will be one of the greatest scientific breakthroughs of our life. Right. And so it's only crazy and wild and kind of taboo until it's proven to be true. Right. And I think Roger Bannister, no one broke the four minute mile and then once one person did it everyone did and uh it'll take one scientific uh um kind of discovery um with full you know documentation and kind of passing up the scientific rigor

and all of a sudden it will be a known fact that yes there is other intelligence out there we are not alone and that'll open up a world of possibilities and and frankly capital um that will be invested to to go explore and and uh and find out more so uh you know keep going thank you yeah and obviously anyone who partners with me at this stage you know i think they may find their name on one of the biggest discoveries in human history because i've not as yet had anyone be able to explain away the evidence put it that way there's you know if the scientists want to try i'd love to have more scientists look over what i'm saying if they can find the holes great right but if they can't or they validate it then hey this is a paradigm changing event for sure where

can people go find more of your work um either the books or uh or anything else that uh that you're working on sure i have a couple of websites brucefenton.info and ancientnews.net and i will basically just find me on facebook on twitter um i'm currently as well i'm a recurring guest expert speaker on ancient aliens on the history channel that frankly um georgio kind of likes my work and he's asked that i come on so i'm now we're current on there uh and i should be at contact in the desert next year 2020 to present there so people and people can contact me you know twitter is where i'm most active but they can they can contact me for my websites facebook you know i'm quite happy for that got it all right bruce listen i really appreciate

you taking the time we recorded for almost two hours so i i know your time is valuable and i just appreciate you coming on and kind of talking through a lot of this stuff um you know there's a lot of folks who were interested from hearing from you. So thanks so much. And as you continue your work, we'll have to do this again in the future. Great. Thank you very much. And I really appreciate, you know, taking the time and that you've taken the time to look at some of the papers I sent you and everything. So I'm really pleased that you brought me on. It's been really good chat. Thank you. Hey, everyone. Pop here. If you like this episode of Off The Chain and want to help us take crypto to the top of the Apple, Spotify, and other podcast charts, please do us

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