The Pomp Podcast - Gold vs Bitcoin: The Ultimate 2025 Debasement Trade

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Starting point is 00:00:55 Learn more at volvocars.ca slash safety. What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people so let's get into today's episode anthony pompliano runs pomp investments all views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do

Starting point is 00:01:37 not reflect the opinions of pomp investments you should not treat any opinion expressed by pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy but only as an expression of his personal opinion this podcast is for informational purposes only. And I think the biggest risk for Bitcoin is all the money that has piled into Bitcoin ETFs that came out of gold ETFs, that came out of gold stocks. A lot of those investors may well try to switch back. They may try to say, you know what, I sold my gold stocks and I bought Bitcoin ETFs. I would have been better off if I just stayed in my gold stocks. Maybe I'll go back to him. You think that gold will have outperformed Bitcoin for 2025? All right, Peter, I thought a

Starting point is 00:02:23 great place to start the conversation. Let's just let you get your victory lap out of the way. Gold's at an all-time high. Silver's at an all-time high. What is driving the bull run in precious metals? Well, I think what you're seeing is the acceleration of de-dollarization that began really a couple of years ago. I think what started it in earnest was the Biden sanctions against Russia, which really was a wake up call for the rest of the world that they need to get get rid of dollars. They need to have a a more secure reserve that can't be just confiscated at the whim of the United States. And then I think it accelerated with the election of Donald Trump and the complete reckless and irresponsible spending by the Trump administration, despite the

Starting point is 00:03:14 fact that trump campaigned to try to do something about the reckless biden spending uh he made it worse the big beautiful bill uh just uh you know expanded on the excess spending and made it clear that we're never going to get our house in order then on top of that uh trump imposed the tariffs uh and vilified a lot of our trading partners for basically participating in the dollars reserve currency status. And he's beating up the Fed about how stupid and what a moron Powell is. And we've got to slash interest rates. And he's trying to fire the FOMC members that he disagrees with so he can put his own cronies up there. So really throwing into question the independence of the Fed. And so we basically told all the foreign central banks, get out of dollars,

Starting point is 00:04:10 get out of treasuries you're going to get wiped out to dollar debasement that inflation and where are they going to go there's only one alternative one viable alternative to the dollar and that's gold they're not going to you know move into euros or pounds or japanese yen or rmb gold is the one monetary asset that all these central banks can rely on it is the system that dominated pre-Bretton Woods, and even in the initial years of Bretton Woods up until 1971, even though the world was using the dollar, the dollar was redeemable in gold. So the world was still backing its currency with gold, even though they did it through the U.S. dollar. But now I think just like we went off the gold standard in 1971, the world is going off the

Starting point is 00:05:03 standard. And it is going back on a gold standard. And now what's also significant is Wall Street has finally woken up to this reality. And now you're seeing major Wall Street banks that have never recommended gold now saying that their clients need to have exposure to gold, whether it's 10 percent, 20 percent. It's now something that, you know, mainstream investors are finally going to start to participate in. And, you know, prices, I think, are just going to head ballistic from here. You know, silver just hit a new all-time record high. It's above $51. We finally took out the peak from 1980. I think we're going to be at 100 pretty quickly. We could even be at 100 next year. And I think gold, which is now above $4,000, has a shot at $5,000 by the end

Starting point is 00:05:55 of the year, but it may not get that high this year, maybe 4,500. But I think 5,000 is definitely in the cards for 2026. In fact, we could be at 6,000 or higher next year in gold. All right. So let's unpack some of what's happening in the gold market. Let's first start with gold as an allocation in a portfolio. In 2014, I saw a clip online of you saying that gold was going to go to $5,000 and you're getting laughed at, right? I mean, frankly, they're just clowning you on television. And it took a while, but here we are. Gold is definitely headed to that. And so I think that you're going to get a little bit of a victory lap, although the critics will say it took too long. But that case is gold is also outperforming stocks over

Starting point is 00:06:35 the last 25 years. Gold's outperforming stocks as well over the last five years. And so I think a lot of people are saying, wait a second, maybe this should be in my portfolio. I have seen Ray Dalio say that gold should be a 15% allocation in your portfolio. I have now seen people say the 60 40 should actually be 60 stocks 20 bonds 20 gold how do you think about gold yeah how do you think about gold in a portfolio yeah i mean the reason i put that that clip from 10 years ago up on my x account and that was when gold was at 1200 right and but that was typical of the way I was treated on like a CNBC when I recommended gold. Everybody laughed at it. They said it was a stupid investment. They said that the only reason I'm recommending gold is because I'm a

Starting point is 00:07:23 gold salesman and I'm just trying to get people to buy gold. And of course, they never said that to stockbrokers, of course, which I also was. But you have all these investment advisors and stockbrokers recommending stocks and they never question their objectivity. They don't question the objectivity of the Bitcoin community. Somebody comes on like a Michael Saylor and says, buy Bitcoin. No one says, well, come on, Michael, you're only saying that because you're leveraged and loaded up with Bitcoin. No, it was only me who recommended gold that they just accused me of just talking my book and being disingenuous and trying to scare people into this lousy investment. And the bottom line is it was a good investment. Most people have done better in gold

Starting point is 00:08:07 than in the stock market over 10 years, 25 years. And they're certainly doing a lot better in gold this year by a long shot. You know, they keep talking about the record highs in the stock market. This is one of the worst years ever for the US stock market if you price it in gold. So gold investors are doing a lot better.

Starting point is 00:08:28 But my point is that now, finally, people are not getting laughed at for recommending gold, right? Now you have, OK, yes, you know, maybe we should have gold in a portfolio. Yes. Right. They should have had it in their portfolio 25 years ago. All right. But the fact that they're now starting to include it, not only does that, you know, basically validate what I've been saying all along, but it means that the demand for gold is about to go through the roof because central banks are going to keep buying. They have a lot more gold to buy than they've already bought.

Starting point is 00:09:06 Um, but now they're going to be competing with private investors, both institutional and retail in this market. And, you know, I have this gold company called shift gold and sales for the last three years have been very lackluster. I mean, it's, you know, it's not like gold has been going way up. It's doubled more than doubled in the last two years yet. Business has been slow because people were afraid that gold's topped out. I don't want to buy the highs. So a lot of the normal buyers have been on hold. Now, everybody is starting to realize that the sky's the limit on gold, that there is no top because there's no floor to the dollar. That's really what's happening. The dollar is going to be losing a lot of value as we open up the spigots.

Starting point is 00:09:54 The Fed is cutting interest rates into rising inflation. Not only is inflation well above the 2% target, but it's headed in the opposite direction. It's going up, yet the Fed is cutting rates anyway. I think by next year, they'll be back at QE because they're going to try to keep long-term interest rates from rising, which is what they're going to do. We're going to see a backup in interest rates as the world sells treasuries to buy gold. In fact, you mentioned Morgan Stanley said the 60-40 portfolio should be 60-20-20, where you cut the bond allocation in half. So if all these Morgan Stanley clients sell half their bonds, which would be a lot of U.S. treasuries to buy gold, not only does that push gold up, but that pushes treasury bonds down

Starting point is 00:10:38 and pushes yields higher. And the Fed doesn't want higher yields. Trump doesn't want them. So the only way to bring them down is massive quantitative easing, which is just going to drive even more demand for gold, because all that is is more inflation and more reasons to get rid of your dollars. Before we get into some of the structural macro stuff, China, their central bank has been a big buyer of gold. You may argue actually that China has been the catalyst for a big part of this move in gold. What is going on there? Is this a true decoupling? Are they preparing for something? Is there some strategic decision that they have made? Is it the Russia sanctions? How do you evaluate China's central bank buying so much gold? Yeah, well, first of

Starting point is 00:11:20 Well, we've made it clear that China is our enemy, right? And so China recognizes that despite the fact that they're our biggest supplier of goods and one of our biggest lenders, right? So talk about biting the hand that feeds you. We have owed a lot to China and we've basically framed them as our enemy. And so why would our enemy want to hold its reserves

Starting point is 00:11:45 in U.S. dollars and U.S. treasuries where they're extremely vulnerable? So I think China is completely divesting. It's on that path of replacing its dollar reserves with gold reserves so it can truly have an independent monetary system. I think eventually they're going to de-peg the Hong Kong dollar from the U.S. dollar and maybe peg it to an RMB that I think ultimately will be backed by gold. I think the Chinese are headed for a Chinese currency that is a back buy and maybe even

Starting point is 00:12:19 convertible into gold just the way the US dollar was once upon a time. I think that is the direction that they're going. And China is the world's biggest gold producer. So they have a lot of gold in China that they're producing. They just don't export any of it because the Chinese government buys it as fast as they could dig it out of the ground. Hi, I'm Matt Hogan, CIO of crypto asset manager Bitwise. Look, crypto can be confusing. There's so much noise and the space changes so quickly. That's why every week I write a five minute memo on the biggest stories impacting crypto in plain English. Why is Bitcoin up or down? What are people missing? Where should investors look next? Get the lowdown every week. Sign up to get the weekly CIO memo delivered

Starting point is 00:13:04 straight to your inbox. Go to bitwiseinvestments.com slash CIO memo. That's bitwiseinvestments.com slash CIO memo. Carefully consider the extreme risks associated with crypto before investing. All right. Now, one of the things that has become very popular over the last, I don't know, three months is the idea of a debasement trade. And the debasement trade is basically gold and Bitcoin. Hold Bitcoin for a second. We'll get to that in a minute. But the debasement trade, I think, is different than an inflation trade. And one of the stats that I think people don't realize is that the M2 money supply is growing two and a half times faster than US CPI. And so you actually have the currency circulation is exploding, which is related but different to CPI

Starting point is 00:13:52 and inflation. Describe why you think the debasement trade narrative is now taking hold. Well, people are recognizing the path that we're on. I mean, the idea that the Fed is going to maintain 2% inflation is now a complete fiction. Nobody believes that anymore. I don't even think the Fed believes it. And I don't even know that they have a target anymore. In fact, the only reason they had a 2% target was because we were below 2% for a while. And so they invented that target as an excuse to create inflation. But now that we're well above 2% and they still want to create inflation, there is no target. But people are appreciating that fact and they're starting to get out of dollars and into other assets, whether it's gold, stocks, or crypto.

Starting point is 00:14:41 I mean, I think the people that are choosing Bitcoin are making a mistake, but they're choosing it for that reason. They think they're getting out of the dollar into something better. And the CPI, when you're looking about inflation, the CPI is a very flawed measure of the effects of inflation. And that is by design. It's not a coincidence that the government designed a methodology for tracking inflation that understates how much inflation there is, because the government creates inflation on purpose. Inflation is a tool that the government uses because it solves a lot of their problems. Of course, it creates problems for the people, but governments love inflation. But since the people don't, government wants to create inflation, but not let anybody know how

Starting point is 00:15:28 bad it is. And so, you know, that's why they shouldn't be the ones that track consumer prices, but they do. So the CPI doesn't really capture what's going on. So if you look at the CPI and, oh, prices are going up three percent, that's not even close to reality. You have to at least double it, if not more, to get a more realistic, you know, assessment of how much prices are going up. But what really is inflation is not prices rising. That's an effective inflation. Inflation is an expansion of the money supply, which includes credit. So as we get more money and more credit into the economy, that's inflation. And we have massive, not only monetary growth, but credit growth. And that's what's fueling the debasement of the U.S. dollar, which is why

Starting point is 00:16:15 prices go up. And it's why people now want to get out. They want to get out of their U.S. dollars and into something that will retain its value. Now, we see the Federal Reserve, historically, people talk about inflation and interest rates, and those are intertwined. But the Federal Reserve cut interest rates in September, and their excuse or their reason was the labor market. They said, hey, there's this weakness in the labor market. That's the reason why we're cutting.

Starting point is 00:16:39 We aren't worried about some sort of inflationary thing, or at least we're less worried about inflation than we are about the labor market. There's the economist from Apollo, Torsten Slocke, who recently came out, and he talked about the fact that we are seeing weakness in the labor market because of immigration, a lack of immigration. We are seeing the AI implementation. And then also we're seeing less government jobs get created. And so when you look at this, how much is the Fed actually going to fuel the rise of these asset prices? Because historically, when we had loss of jobs, that was recessionary. Now it seems like if we get weaker job market, the Fed is actually

Starting point is 00:17:15 going to push asset prices higher. It's almost the opposite of how it's historically been. Yeah, the Fed is using weakness in the labor market as an excuse to cut rates as if rate cuts are going to strengthen the labor market. They won't. I mean, the labor market is not weak because interest rates are too high. I mean, interest rates are too low. I mean, that is one of the problems in our economy. The reason we don't have enough domestic savings, the reason we don't have enough manufacturing is because we've had interest rates too low. We've had excess consumer spending, excess borrowing that has inhibited real economic growth. So what these rate cuts are going to do is just strengthen inflation, not the labor market. And I think the rate cuts are actually going to weaken the labor market because higher inflation is going to dampen real consumer spending and is going to lead to more layoffs.

Starting point is 00:18:08 So what the Fed is doing is not going to work. Now, the other thing they're trying to do is prop up the housing market because home prices are too high and they need to come down. But rather than letting real estate prices fall, which is the obvious solution to the affordability problem, the Fed wants to drive mortgage rates down so that people can borrow more money to overpay for homes. That's not going to work either because mortgage rates aren't going to come down. I mean, the only rates that may come down would be the short term rates. So you may start to see more people taking a risky adjustable rate mortgage in order to get a payment that they can actually swing. But we've seen that movie before and we know how it ends.

Starting point is 00:18:54 Now, when you start looking at the Federal Reserve, there's been a lot of questions about independence of the Fed. I think that there is something about gold and Bitcoin, which is I don't have to trust anyone. There's no monetary policy that's being set. There's no kind of backdoor meetings. There's no pressure from politicians in terms of what's going to change about these assets. The Fed is the complete opposite. And it seems like that's now coming to a head. And there's the political pressure. But also there's a lot of folks just saying, look, regardless of which political aisle I'm on, these people are not the independent, unbiased folks that everyone has been saying that they've been. Yeah, well, I mean, first of all, I've always believed that Fed independence was, you know,

Starting point is 00:19:32 a pretense that behind the scenes, the Fed and the U.S. Treasury, you know, worked hand in glove. But they didn't want that perception to be there. They wanted our creditors to believe that there was independence and that there would not be political pressure on the Fed to just create inflation and, you know, debase the dollar. Because if you're a creditor of the United States, you want to know that the value of the dollar, you know, is going to be maintained and not sacrificed for political expediency. But I think what the Trump administration is revealing is that that pretense is a pretense, that there is no legitimate Fed independence, that the Fed is very much political. And that is the problem, because you destroy that pretense. And now why

Starting point is 00:20:25 hold dollars? Because obviously a country that has as much debt as we do, there's a lot of political pressure to create inflation, to repudiate that debt rather than to honestly repay it. And so why would you want to be a creditor if it's obvious that you're not going to get paid? That yes, you might get your dollars back, but by the time you get them, they won't buy very much. So why not get rid of them now. And so this is the danger that we're facing. We're accelerating the realization that this is just a pretense and that the Fed is an arm of the U.S. Treasury, which is it's not supposed to be. It's supposed to be completely independent. And, you know, the reason that it's independent and it's a private it's not a government agency, it's private. The reason was

Starting point is 00:21:12 because the Constitution didn't even authorize the federal government to issue paper money. So it couldn't do it. So it created a private enterprise of the Federal Reserve Banks that could do what it constitutionally had no authority to do. But I mean, today, you know, the judges or the justices of the Supreme Court are unlikely to, you know, enforce the monetary restraints that are imposed by the Constitution. But they very well may uphold Trump's ability to fire Lisa Cook by claiming that the whole concept of an independent Fed itself is unconstitutional and really let the world know who controls the printing press. All right. I want you to take off your gold hat for a second. I want to put I want you to put on

Starting point is 00:22:00 your hat of a truth teller. I want you to be a serious person. And I want you to explain to me why gold has outperformed Bitcoin so far this year, up over 50 percent. Bitcoin's up about 30, 35%. But over the last five years, gold's up somewhere in the ballpark of 100%. Bitcoin is up 1,000%. Why do you think that Bitcoin is not valuable? Or have you changed your mind? You now own Bitcoin and maybe think that gold and Bitcoin is the debasement trade that everyone should be allocated to? Well, the reason that Bitcoin is up that much is because there was a big drop in bitcoin uh and then it had a huge rally right but if you if you look at the peak from bitcoin which was in 2021 um when they had a you know right after the the etfs came out and

Starting point is 00:22:50 all that or uh or there's you know bitcoin got up to 69 000 in in in november 2021 and at that time gold was around 1900. Today, Bitcoin's around 123,000 and gold is over 4000. Bitcoin is about 15% lower today than it was at that peak priced in gold. And so to me, that was peak Bitcoin, even though technically in August of this year, Bitcoin got a little bit higher than that in terms of gold, but not much, but has since collapsed. I mean, Bitcoin then declined by a full 20% price in gold. Maybe it's down about 18% right now from its peak from August. I want to make a bet with you. I want to make a bet. This is a gentleman's bet. Right now, gold is up over 50%. Bitcoin is up somewhere 33%, 35%. By the end of this year,

Starting point is 00:23:54 I believe that Bitcoin's 2025 return will be higher than gold. If I am right, you have to tweet out and say, Anthony Pompliano was right. Bitcoin beat gold this year. But if I'm wrong and gold outperforms Bitcoin in 2025, I'll tweet out and say Peter Schiff was right. Gold outperformed Bitcoin this year. Deal? Well, I guess we can make that bet. I mean, I have no problem collecting on that. So you think that gold will continue to outperform Bitcoin. And by the end of December 31st of this year, you think that gold will have outperformed Bitcoin for 2025? Yeah. I mean, I think Bitcoin, I think there's a lot of downside risk in Bitcoin. I mean, I think Bitcoin is much more highly correlated with the Nasdaq. And yeah, tech

Starting point is 00:24:38 stocks, the Nasdaq made a new record high yesterday as well. So risk assets have been in favor, and there's been a big appetite for risk. But we can easily have a correction or a bear market in risk assets, and that would include Bitcoin. And I think if investors get more risk adverse, they're more likely to want to buy more gold, not less. So if we have an overall decline in the stock market, the gold bull market can continue. But the Bitcoin rally can't because Bitcoin is going to follow other risk assets because at the end of the day, that's what it is. It's not a safe haven store of value the way gold would be. It is a highly speculative asset that people buy because they think other people will pay more for it. And that's the same dynamic

Starting point is 00:25:38 that drives a lot of momentum stocks. I mean, they get devoid of the fundamentals. People aren't buying momentum stocks because they have a good dividend yield or because they have a low PE. They want to just jump on a moving train and they're afraid to not be on it because everybody else is in on it

Starting point is 00:25:56 and they want to get these paper gains. And so that's the same thing that's happening with Bitcoin. But there's a big risk that that dynamic can reverse. And I think the biggest risk for Bitcoin is all the money that has piled into Bitcoin ETFs that came out of gold ETFs, that came out of gold stocks. A lot of those investors may well try to switch back. They may try to say, you know what, I sold my gold stocks and I bought Bitcoin ETFs. I would have been better off if I just stayed in my gold stocks. Maybe I'll go back to them.

Starting point is 00:26:30 You know, I think I got rid of them too soon. And there could be a lot of selling. and then you have a lot of these, you know, Bitcoin treasury companies that have also been the big buyers of Bitcoin. I think that whole trade is going to blow up. Um, and a lot of these Bitcoin treasury companies are going to go out of business. And when they have a going out of business sale, what are they going to sell? Well, they only have one thing to sell their Bitcoin. So, you know, there's going to be a lot of Bitcoin for sale. You know, I don't, I don't think the U S government's going to step up and buy it. I think that's all a bunch of hype about the

Starting point is 00:27:02 strategic bitcoin reserve uh so you know there's a lot of downside risk in bitcoin i don't see a lot of downside risk in gold at all i see a lot of upside potential though maybe you're right maybe you're not obviously i disagree but we'll find out on that front this episode is brought to you by bitlayer bitlayer is taking bitcoin beyond just a store of value for the first time you can put your bitcoin to work earning yield while staying true to its core principles of security and decentralization. Bitlayer is making Bitcoin DeFi a reality. Learn more at x.com slash Bitlayer Labs. Again, that's x.com slash Bitlayer Labs. You mentioned President Trump. He has put what many would consider very different economic policies in place compared to his predecessor.

Starting point is 00:27:47 There are things like the tariffs. There is obviously the immigration kind of crackdown. You also see spending, which you mentioned. Talk through like what is the grade that you would give the Trump administration on their economic policy so far in the first, you know, six to nine months of this administration? Oh, I mean, I give Trump an F when it comes to economic policy and the Trump economy, you know, is not that much different than the Biden economy. I mean, the biggest thing is the massive government spending and the massive deficits. And so not only is that the same, but it's actually worse. Yes, we've added on tariffs, but I don't like tariffs. I mean, I'm a free trader and tariffs are taxes. We need more taxes, unfortunately, because we have huge deficits.

Starting point is 00:28:40 But the tariffs, the way they're being operated, are just going to make American industry even less competitive. And it's going to result in the manufacturing sector, what's left of it, shrinking even more. But what I particularly don't like about the tariffs, too, not only the unconstitutional way that they've been imposed, because they really need to be imposed by Congress and they need to originate in the House because they are taxes. And that's how taxes are supposed to be raised in the United States, not not enacted by a president, but passed through Congress. But I don't like all the exemptions that are being thrown about and how Trump uses the tariffs as a weapon to try to get companies to give concessions or to do things that they might otherwise not do. But for the extortion of, well, if you do this, we'll exempt you from tariffs. And I also don't like the fact that, you know, some companies can bribe their way out of the tariffs. Larger companies, whereas smaller companies are stuck, you know, paying the tariffs. So I don't like this kind of central government planning, this micromanagement of the economy.

Starting point is 00:29:52 You know, Trump was very critical of Kamala for the socialist policies that she advocated, yet he's pursuing a socialist economic agenda of his own. So I don't like anything that Trump is doing when it comes to the economy. Right. There's some stuff that he's done that I can I can support, but it's not economic. The economic policy is horrible. And the precedent that it's sending is even worse because Trump's not going to be president forever. And it's most likely that the president who's going to follow Trump is going to be the most left wing, radical socialist Democrat that we've ever put into the White House. And the reason that I'm convinced that it's not going to be a Republican is going to be because the economy is going to be so much worse in 2028 than it was in 2024 that no one's going to vote for four more years. It's going to be another election about change where the incumbent party gets blamed for the mess. And now you have somebody else coming saying, I'm going to clean it up. And so it's not going to be another Republican because the Republican brand is going to be completely tarnished, just like it was after Bush.

Starting point is 00:31:08 Right. And then we got eight years of Obama. And the reason that Trump was able to beat Hillary Clinton was because the economy was bad under Obama. And so the voters wanted to change. And then the reason that Trump didn't get reelected, it was because the economy was worse at the end of his first term than it was at the beginning. And so the voters took a shot on Biden and then the economy got worse under Biden. So they went back to Trump. And now it's going to get worse under Trump because the fundamentals are not being changed. Right. Both parties are pursuing the same failed Keynesian economic policies. And so that's why we don't get a different result. But the public doesn't get this yet. They just go back and forth between Tweedledee and Tweedledummer.

Starting point is 00:31:51 Sure. Now, last question. If you were Fed chairman, treasury secretary or president for a day, what are the policies that you would implement that you think would actually change the fundamentals? Well, practically, the one thing that I could do as president would be to refuse to sign any budget that was not balanced and refuse to sign off on any increase in the debt ceiling then if i could get one-third of the house or the senate to support me meaning my veto could not be overridden congress would have no choice but to eliminate at least the third maybe 40 percent of the federal government because they would have to reduce spending in line with tax revenue and so that would cause a massive uh you know collapse in government which is what we need we

Starting point is 00:32:50 need to shrink government dramatically because big government is the problem now of course we also need higher interest rates which we're going to get and i think that if we couldn't borrow more money then we couldn't pay the interest on the debt because the only way we could pay interest on the debt is to borrow that. And so that would force a restructuring of our debt, which I think we need. I mean, I know that there's no way we can repay the debt. The current plan is to inflate it away. I think that is the worst way out. I think an honest restructuring is better for everybody, including our creditors, than massive inflation. It's just politically embarrassing to admit that we're broke and that we can't pay our bills but i'd rather admit the truth than perpetuate a lie

Starting point is 00:33:43 and i'd rather you know get the country on a sound economic foundation rather than continuing to perpetuate you know this this bubble that we have so there's stuff that i could do and then i would you know i would try to get rid of as many regulations as i possibly can i mean a lot more than than we're getting from trump i mean rather than you know trump trump wants to try to price control, like with drugs. He's trying to force companies to lower their prices. I don't want to do that. But what I would like to do is eliminate a lot of the regulations that have caused drug companies to have to charge so much for their drugs in the first place. That's what Trump could do, is remove a lot of the regulatory barriers that the federal government has enacted that make

Starting point is 00:34:29 it so expensive to develop new drugs. Get rid of those and then costs will come down naturally. The government won't have to coerce companies into lowering prices. The free market will cause them to lower prices. I like you. You know why? I felt bad for you for a while. It was, you know, Bitcoin was just outperforming gold so aggressively. It wasn't even fun to talk anymore because it was just like gold was just kind of going sideways.

Starting point is 00:34:53 But now that gold has woken up from its slumber and is doing well, it's fun. Like, I feel like we're like brothers in arms against the government debasement. Gold is selling off now. We're getting a bit of a decline. In fact, silver, which was up $2 when we started this interview, is up less than a buck now. Let me see. Gold is...

Starting point is 00:35:14 Imagine if this interview marks the top of the gold bull run. Gold's only up a dollar. No, there's no way it's going to mark the top. All right. Where can we send people to find you on the internet? Well, I'm all over the internet, although I'm not as proliferate as you are. I mean, you've, you, you surpassed my X followers. Uh, I remember when I was way ahead of you and you just completely, uh, completely passed

Starting point is 00:35:39 me. Yeah. Well, it's kind of like Bitcoin and gold. I just shot right by you. Yeah, exactly. Well that, you know, I'll, I'll get, I'll catch up in the end. All right. But you can follow me on X, you know, I'm posting a lot there.

Starting point is 00:35:50 You can, you know, go to my YouTube channel, uh, Peter Schiff. I do my podcast there. Uh, and on shift gold, we have our own, uh, YouTube channel there. I do every Friday. I do the shift gold Friday market wrap and discuss what happened in gold and silver during the week. And look, if you own Bitcoin, you know, look at a minimum, you know, you got to you can't just be all in on Bitcoin. You know, you got you got to take some chips off the table. You got to have a hedge against your Bitcoin and gold and silver are a great, great way to hedge Bitcoin.

Starting point is 00:36:26 And you don't have to sell all your Bitcoin, but just sell some of your Bitcoin. and at shift gold we make it real easy you can go to shift gold and you can go online and you can check out with bitcoin you can use bit pay and you can buy real money real gold and silver with your fake uh fake money uh at at shift gold so peter peter we gotta go in case the connections the connections break it up my friend the connections break it all right we'll talk soon all right take care

The Pomp Podcast - Gold vs Bitcoin: The Ultimate 2025 Debasement Trade

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