The Pomp Podcast - How Smart Investors Turn Bitcoin Drawdowns Into Tax Wins | Chris Kline

Episode Date: February 26, 2026

Chris Kline is the COO & Co-Founder of Bitcoin IRA. In this conversation, we discuss how wealthy investors use retirement accounts to reduce taxes, why volatility can create opportunities like Roth conversions, and the mistakes people make by holding assets in the wrong account. We also cover bitcoin in retirement portfolios, estate planning strategies, and how macro conditions like inflation, deflation, and Fed policy may impact long-term asset allocation.========================Award-winning Fountain Life - Energy supercharged. Memory sharper. Life extended. Ready for the best investment you’ll ever make? Schedule a life-changing call at FountainLife.com/Pomp Get $1,000 off the cost of a life-changing membership with Fountain Life when you schedule a call at FountainLife.com/pomp========================Simple Mining makes Bitcoin mining simple and accessible for everyone. We offer a premium white glove hosting service, helping you maximize the profitability of Bitcoin mining. For more information on Simple Mining or to get started mining Bitcoin, visit https://www.simplemining.io/========================Arch Public is an agentic trading platform that automates the buying and selling of your preferred crypto strategies. Sign up today at https://www.archpublic.com and start your automated trading strategy for free. No catch. No hidden fees. Just smarter trading.========================0:00 - Intro1:55 – How to use the tax code to get in better position2:51 – How 401(k)s replaced pensions (why it mattered) 6:20 – Tax advantages of non-W2 income & retirement accounts 9:08 – Long-term asset allocation & bitcoin in retirement 13:12 – Using Roth conversions during bitcoin drawdowns 21:10 – How taxes create massive long-term performance drag 22:39 – Borrowing against bitcoin instead of selling 28:29 – Inflation, deflation, & why government data lags reality 33:15 – What macro headwinds mean for assets and portfolios 36:38 – Bitcoin IRA tools, incentives, & next steps

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. The wealthy use these downturns for what's called a Roth conversion. These are the tools that are out there, but they just don't teach anybody how to do them. So taking even a little bit of time

watching a show like this, and 90% of the time, they'll find a way if you have non-W2 income to really put something together that can save you over years, thousands of dollars today, but maybe millions tomorrow if you invest in the right tools. What's going on, guys? Today, we had a great conversation with Chris Klein. He is the co-founder of Bitcoin IRA. And in this conversation, we're going to go through three things. One, what are rich people doing? How do they save money on their taxes? How do they use retirement accounts? And what are all the secret strategies that you should be doing, but you might not know about? Two, we talk about Bitcoiners who allocated a Bitcoin. Now they've made some money. They're

trying to think through how do they optimize their taxes, optimize for estate planning? How do they pass their assets on to whether it's their children or other family members? And then three is we talk about what's going on in the market and how you should be thinking about allocating your assets if inflation, deflation, or maybe if the government's economic data is wrong and actually you got to go look at the private market. All that and more in this conversation with Chris Klein. All right, guys, as many of you guys know, my personal goal is to help as many people capture freedom as possible. And the way I think about this is essentially that if you control the money, then you control your time. If you control your time, you control your

life. But what a lot of Bitcoiners seem to have done, similar to me, is they took a very large portion of their net worth, sometimes over 50%. They put into Bitcoin years ago and Bitcoin appreciated significantly. And now all of a sudden people are starting to worry about, what's going on with taxes? How do I do estate planning? What do I do with this portfolio that has grown in significant size? And so what we're going to do today is we're going to sit down and talk to Chris Klein. Chris is at Bitcoin IRA. But what they get to see is not just what are people doing with Bitcoin in terms of retirement and taxes and estate planning, but they also just see rich people. And what are these rich people doing? How are they using the tools that are

available to anyone, whether you're rich or not, to actually end up in a better financial position? And what I asked Chris to do is go and just take a bunch of data and come here and explain to us what are rich people doing so that everyone else can learn from it. And so, Chris, maybe a great place to start the conversation is just explain how people are using some of the existing tax code to actually get into a better position. Yeah, no, great point. You know, there's holding an asset and then there's where you hold an asset. And that's really the critical difference that most people think about. As Bitcoiners, we always said, well, we were not my keys, not my crypto. Now, some of us are moving into custody solutions because we want to hand it down

to the next generation in a smooth fashion. But the wrapper that you put it in, whether it's a Roth, a traditional, a SEP, a simple solo case, something in the ultra wealthy use, but a lot of folks can use it. They don't even realize they can. And once you use those wrappers, you're now avoiding the drag of capital gains taxes. I know that you and I are kind of like we're going to buy and hold forever and ever and our grandkids will hold. But there's tools you can use inside of each of those wrappers, they can really give you an advantage of not either not having to sell or if you need to sell and say there's a pullback or otherwise, you can maximize on tax savings through those wrappers. Now, when you're looking at these kind of let's call just retirement tricks

to start first, what is it that the wealthy are doing that maybe the people who are watching or listening to this do not understand? Well, the first is they're using retirement. So unfortunately, we've talked about this before. Fifty percent of Americans aren't even using a retirement strategy today. And that's partially because of the apathy and the system is kind of rigged. I mean, you and I talk about this all the time. This was probably the greatest robbery of a generation when we moved from pensions, which our fathers and grandfathers had, to 401ks. Why? Explain what the robbery was. So the 401k was originally designed for the C-level and the executives of a business to tuck in their bonuses, basically, so that they could take their year-end bonus and say, okay, well,

I don't need this money. I'm going to put it in long-term retirement savings. Instantly, those guys sitting in the boardroom realized, wait a minute, why don't we just give everybody a 401k and get rid of the pension? It takes the liability off our backs. With pensions, your money would go in automatically like our grandfather, wherever they worked. And the company was responsible for that value. Just like social security, you put an amount in, you're supposed to get an amount out. The minute it flipped over to the 401k, the employee put their money in, the employer put their match in, and that was up to the employee to invest it. The liability was off their backs. And if the market tanked, oh, well, sorry, you

lost your 401k. They would have to pay out and take losses if the market tanked and the shares tanked on a pension. So I call that a great robbery because nobody told the average Joe about it. All of a sudden, it was just like a new name, but it was a totally different structure. So what you're basically saying is with the pension system, let's say that you have company ABC, they make profits, they are paying their employees, the employees are contributing to the pension, the company is putting some capital in maybe, but then the company has almost an investment team. And that investment team was quote, unquote, a professional team that is supposed to go and drive a return. Now in social security system, it's complete nonsense. Like

that's the government, right? So we know that they're bad at it. They basically create a Ponzi scheme where they are paying out, you know, the current benefits by taking in new money. And if they stopped taking in new money, they wouldn't have enough money to pay out the benefits. In terms of the pensions, it sounds like on one hand, they did have a dedicated professional team to do it. But what you're saying is they owed the money regardless of whether they were good at investing or not. And so companies really just saw that as quote unquote risk. And that's where they created this idea of like, well, rather than give it to the company, why don't you just keep the money? It's on you. Yep. On one hand, I kind of like that. Like I'm like, Hey, and it's personal

responsibility. On the other hand, you know, how many people like personal responsibility and actually benefit? And the average Joe didn't know in the 19, uh, late 1980s, early nineties, a couple of airlines went bankrupt and where they lost the most was the regular employee was like, Hey, I'm getting stock of United or I'm getting stock of American and not thinking about changing their strategy because they had the pension mentality. And then when that stock plummeted, they were left with nothing, not only nothing, they lost their jobs because the bank company had to shrink down and lay off. But then also those shares were worth nothing and they were stuck with them because they never knew they could make individual sovereign decisions.

It wasn't really educated. And even today, I think most people will go into a 401k and they'll say, I put my $300, the company matched 5%. I do that every single month. I'm maxing out my 401k. That's the one thing they told me to do as far as whoever is giving me advice, but it's so limited. You're looking at a generic ABCD funds. Nothing's really keeping up with the rate of inflation. What will it do in the deflationary measures we're coming through? There's no diversification.

So you're kind of just left with this very boring bag of goods that may or may not grow and you're definitely not going to become Warren Buffett with that strategy. What are the other things that you see people doing? So there's this whole idea of like leveraging, you know, and taking responsibility, right? Which isn't like some alpha generating, hey, go buy this stock, go do this certain strategy. But it's just like the money is sitting there. Pay attention, which is pretty important. Yeah, that's that's key.

Number one. Now, once you get to the next layer, Financial Times just came out that the highest number of individuals with side gig, second jobs or W-2 income in the history of our country is happening right now. But when you shift over from just being a W-2 employee to K-1 income, 1099 income, the rules have changed for you. And there's so many more opportunities in terms of tax code that most people don't realize they're still stuck in the pension 401k max contribution mentality. You are now eligible for SEP IRAs, solo Ks. These are tools that the wealthy are using and even not the super wealthy. Somebody that started a business opens up a SEP IRA because you can contribute 10 times more. So right now, if you did a Roth IRA, you could contribute. You and I could do 7,500. People older than us could do 8,000. That's your max contribution every year. With a SEP, you can get up to $56,000, $60,000. So now you're taking that tax bill, that taxable income, and you're lowering it by even greater numbers, right away saving yourself money instantly, getting more purchasing power with your money. With solo Ks is great for if you don't have employees, and it's just say like you and your

wife or me and my wife, and we have a business, you can actually get upwards of $150,000 a year tucked away into tax deferred settings. And how does that work, a solo K? Solo K is for individual business owners. So you have an LLC or an S Corp, you and your wife are only employees and you are channeling your income from wherever you're making it through like i i'm sure you do the same way i have an s corp that i pay certain things through an llc i have the money land at and i funnel funds through to lower my overall tax bill but in that process the business can then contribute employee contributions and employer contributions so you're the business owner you're giving yourself 50 000 and as the individual you're saying i'm

going to take 50 000 of my k1 income and tuck it in there as well now you're lowering your your tax bill by 150. What's really cool about solo case is you can take loans against. So I was yesterday I saw our friend Julia Yahoo Finance, which, by the way, she she is such a contrarian to our world. And I think I broke her walls down a little bit. But she's one thing she said was, you know, Pop says he's never going to sell his Bitcoin and neither is his grandkids. And I said, well, yeah, makes sense. He's probably going to tuck it in a trust and he's going to take loans out against it so they can live off those loans like every wealthy person in America is doing. His assets, just not dollars. It's Bitcoin. But he's going to do the same strategy just with a

different asset classes. She goes, Oh, that makes sense. You can do the same with a solo. Okay. You have the funds sitting there in Bitcoin. You can start taking up to 50% of the value out in loans, tuck it in as an, into a trust concept for yourself. And now your kids, grandkids and great grandkids are set up where they can hold that Bitcoin forever, but utilize the power of it in collateral and leverage. And when people are doing this, um, how much of these wealthy clients are they putting in, you know, a hundred percent in the Bitcoin versus you see them say, okay, hey, I want, you know, five, 10% Bitcoin. I want some stocks. I want kind of different assets. Like to talk through, you know, kind of the asset allocation and really the differences

like this is going to be in there for a long time, right? This is much more long-term oriented than. Yeah. I think most clients, especially in the modern portfolio theory, have a mentality of, I want to actually put my riskiest assets inside my retirement accounts because I know I have the longer time horizon. I've got decades, not years, not months, but decades where I may or may not need this or hand it down to the next generation. So Bitcoin makes sense. We have our volatile days where you ebb and flow every 18 months, we get our butt kicked. But then we soar to new all new all time highs. So they have a longer time horizon, I would say with a modern portfolio theory, traditional was stocks, bonds, mutual funds, usually about a third, a third, a third. And

then you just need cash on the sidelines in case you need liquidity. Modern portfolio theory chart carves out probably about 25% from every other sector total into alternatives, which obviously my specialty is crypto and Bitcoin in particular, but our clients, our $12 billion book of business, about $5 billion is in real estate, venture capital, private equity, private shares of stocks. This is how Peter Thiel got a $5 billion Roth IRA was he took his shares from Facebook, he took his shares from Uber, pre-IPO, pre-placement, and tucked them into his Roth accounts so that he could, once they came to maturation, he's got this giant tax-free bundle waiting for him. What about if somebody changes their mind? This is one of the questions I always

here when people start talking about trust, or they start talking about retirement accounts, et cetera, they say, all right, well, right now, maybe I'm a high earner, or maybe I've got some investment that did really well. I'm thinking about putting it in there, but I'm really nervous because I don't know what the future holds. And maybe I'm 30 or 35 years old. So 58, 62, 70, those are pretty far away. What happens if I want to change my mind later and get these assets out? Can I get it out? What's the penalties? How does that work? First is you don't necessarily have to take it out to change your asset allocation strategy. So let's say you did really well with Bitcoin. We have folks that started in 2016 at a hundred, $200 Bitcoin. And now they've said,

okay, maybe I've made, you talked about this at the conference. Maybe I've made enough money. I saw it go from a hundred dollars to a hundred thousand. I feel like a winner. The pigs get slaughtered, right? Let me pull some of this off the table that doesn't penalize them. They can go to cash. They can go to gold. They can go to real estate all within the same wrapper. At some point, let's say you need to take the money out. So if you really have like a rough 10 years and you're like I'm not making any income, I've got to start taking funds out, then you can take distribution early before 59 and a half. That's the distribution age. You can take it for certain things. You can take it for home buying expenses, some higher education expenses. So those you can take out

penalty free. If you do take it out for, hey, I just got to pay my bills, then there could be somewhere between 20 to 25% penalty plus whatever your tax bill might be at that moment in time. That's not very common though. Most folks, this is the beauty of retirement investing is once you set it, you're thinking decades. This isn't like a savings account where you're like, ooh, I see those Knicks tickets for tomorrow night. I really want to grab the front row. I guess I'll divvy my savings for that. You're not going to do that with your retirement account because it's an additional wrapper and the advantages of it are so powerful over time to create generational wealth. Now, inside of these, I see people who sometimes put

different assets in that they want to trade a lot because there's obviously not the tax ramifications. I also see people, you mentioned kind of risk, but risk equals volatility in many people's minds. So they put like highly volatile assets in there as well. Talk about that. Yeah. So obviously Bitcoin is a pretty volatile asset. We've, we've watched it over the decade together. You'll have people, we have 85 different coins and that's usually driven by our consumers asking for them. So they wanted Ethereum, they wanted Litecoin, Solana, XRP, all the mix of bags. So we have 85 now, even some of those meme coins. Who's putting the 85th coin in their retirement account? You know, well, one of the, I think, I don't know if it was the 85th, but one

of the most recent additions early last year was the Trump coin. It was Trump mania, the Trump coin mania that happened. And there were people that said, OK, I'm going to put a couple thousand in that. They saw the run. And then as it started to pull off, they pulled back and then they reallocated that towards Bitcoin. The reason why volatility is helpful in retirement accounts, especially the solo case I was talking about or any traditional account you have, the wealthy use these downturns for what's called a Roth conversion. So when you put money in pre tax, which is traditional or SEP. You're lowering your tax bill for the income and you're paying nominal income tax when you take it out when you're older because you're not making as much.

What a lot of folks will do right now, so Bitcoin runs from $126,000 all the way down to $66,000, $65,000. They will take this moment in time and say, well, my portfolio is down 50%. I can panic about the headlines or I can use this as strategy. I'm going to go ahead and take my traditional IRA. I'm going to convert it to a Roth IRA right now because the value is half as much, which means my tax bill to convert will go down 50%. So they take advantage of this moment in time. And once they do that, as we go through the next run, because we all know it's going to be back at all-time highs here in the next 12, 18, 24 months, then they're now in a Roth setting where they're never going to pay taxes on those funds ever again. And what is the penalty for the conversion?

No penalty for conversion. It's just, you're now taking pre-tax money, turning into post-tax money. So you're going to have whatever your income for the year is, whatever your nominal tax rate is for that amount. So it's really important, you know, if it's a great year for you, you're making a half million dollars, a million dollars, maybe not the best strategy for you unless, you know, you're like, hey, I've allocated for this. This is where I would say, you know, there's the difference between CPAs and advisors and then tax strategists. I have all three. My CPA wants to avoid me getting audited always. That's his job because he thinks that if I get audited or I have to deal with letters from the IRS, he's done a bad job. But truthfully, most wealthy folks I know,

especially the high, high earners, I'm sure the same for you, they feel like if they don't get audited, then they didn't play too close. They played their cards too close to the chest. Like there's a, there's a balancing act with, with the entire tax code. And none of us are professionals at it. So using some strategy likes S-Corps, LLC, solo case, retirement accounts, these are all tools that they don't teach us in school. Unfortunately, you and I were talking about with our kids is like, this is not something they're coming out of high school or even college with knowledge base around there, but they do know the Pythagorean theorem. They can tell you a squared P squared is equal C squared, right? I don't know what that is. And I love that.

i i know i've heard of it but uh i stopped paying attention to math when they started using letters once the numbers went away oh my god that's isabella last uh this she started algebra this year and she goes dad what's with these letters am i in english class or my math class how old is she she's 12 12 yeah so like that's about when math to me was like you know i just didn't know the basics adding subtracting multiplying dividing i told her what you told me at dinner the other night was uh i wouldn't put my i hated that place so i wouldn't put my kids in that cage and she goes yeah and she's like dad you i know you were like valedictorian and love school but i i kind of like pops policy you were valedictorian yeah i was you want to hear a crazy story when i got

to college uh somebody that uh was there as a freshman they told me that they didn't have to take a class because they said they took it in high school same here i was like how did you do that and they were like oh i took these ap classes yeah and i literally was like oh my high school didn't have that and they were like uh what do you want every high school i was like yeah we didn't I would have done that, obviously, if I knew that. And they were like, no, your high school definitely did. And we started debating it. And so I called somebody that I knew.

I was like the smartest person I knew from my high school. And I was like, hey, they're telling me that we had these classes. I'm telling them we didn't have them. Tell them we didn't have them. And they were like, no, dude, you just weren't in them. We definitely had those classes. I came into my freshman year at University of Colorado Boulder with 30 credit hours. I almost had a year done with calculus, English, history.

It was great because it also saved me money. I had one less year of tuition that I had to pay for. So if anyone wanted to know the difference between me and Chris, Chris came in with 30 credit hours. I played football, and so I just asked the older guys. Oh, then you get automatic credit hours. You're an athlete. I said, what classes should I take? They said, intro to Bible.

That's a good one. I said, okay, that's a good one. Geology, rocks for jocks. That's always a good one. You can't fail geology. It's a fun class. I never tried. I wish I knew you back then.

Yeah. Listen, I was on a path of – Well, you know, I have a buddy that's a private jet pilot and him and I left when I left Colorado on a one-way ticket to California and then built Bitcoin IRA. He went to get trained to be a private pilot. And the other day I was flying out of Denver and he happened to have an empty leg to Scottsdale. And he's like, why don't you come with me? So I get to go up into the cockpit, he's flying. And I sit there for a second. I'm like, holy crap. I did this guy's math homework to get him out of high school. And now my life is in his hands and he's doing all this like X,

Y, Z. I was like, I looked over the headphones. I'm like, are you sure you know what you're doing? goes no man i know this math that's stuff from school i don't know but i know this math we're good yeah see but like that's everybody's got different values right yeah i i uh you know why i got an economics degree why because it was only eight classes shortest one like i was just like you know i'm i'm here but i will say that once once it kind of clicked for me and you know i left school came back um that's when i was like oh i should start paying attention then i was getting great grades right well that's the same for everything i've learned here i didn't learn any of this in school this was the these these account and nobody does that's the problem this

we're creating workers not entrepreneurs not thinkers not creators but now we're in an economy where so many people are creating they're creating content they're creating ideas they're changing new things and then they have success and they get stuck with the w2 mentality and so they're like oh my god i'm gonna pay out 40 if you're in california 52 now in new york you guys i don't even know what's gonna happen to you guys uh 50 60 percent of my money is going out in income taxes to the IRS. And they love that because if you don't question the system, then they get more income. And it's not really, this is not tax fraud avoidance. There's nothing illegal about this. These are the tools that are out there, but they just don't teach anybody how to do them.

So taking even a little bit of time, watching a show like this, go in, ask Chad GBT, go to Claude, go to AI, say, does a solo K or a SEP IRA work for me? And 90% of the time, they'll find a way if you have non-W2 income to really put something together that can save you over years, thousands of dollars today but maybe millions tomorrow if you invest in the right tools today's episode is brought to you by fountain life are you ready to seize the day that will change your life guaranteed you invest in wealth creation every single day but what's the point of it without an optimal health span award-winning fountain life is the world's most advanced longevity destination and in just one day they can map an exact and complete picture of your health profile

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highest earning clients, right? Where they're essentially making good decisions, but this idea of putting it in the wrong wrapper can cost five, 10 million bucks? Yeah. So if you, I had these two guys, Steve and John, I did this Puerto Rico conference back in 2016. That's the real names? Yeah. No, I just made them up. And Steve went and grabbed $7,500 and just bought Bitcoin on Coinbase. And John grabbed a Roth IRA, put $7,500 in there and I gave them ultra hindsight. So they bought the lows from 2013 through, at the time it was 2016. If I took it all the way to now,

the levels today, it would probably be like a 50 to $75 million mistake. Because what happens is they buy low and I gave him ultra hindsight. So buy low, sell high, buy back in at the dip. You know what everybody tries to do. We all think, oh man, I wish I could do that. But I gave him that and I did the math because every time Steve outside of his IRA did it, he had to ante up 25 to 30% taxes on the capital gains. So now the next time he went into the market, his purchasing power was 25% to 30% less. So if there was $100,000, now he's only got $70,000. Meanwhile, John sitting in his IRA still has the full $100,000 because he didn't have a tax bill. You take that across four or five years and you give him five or six trades, the gap now, even though Steve feels great

because he's like, well, I'm a genius. I got into Bitcoin and I'm up to $25 million. John's over here smiling because he's at $45, $50 million just because he didn't have that drag of capital gains. Now, when you see that happen, right? The other piece is you're saying like you can borrow against these assets. How much can you borrow? Can you just borrow? So with the solo case in particular, that's a great tool. You can borrow up to 50% of the value.

So imagine, and we're starting to get this at Bitcoin IRA. We're launching companion accounts next month. What's that? So, so many people are coming to us and saying, hey, I love the program, love the security, love the service. I have a whole bunch of Bitcoin sitting either on a ledger device or, and I hate when I hear this still on a hot exchange like coinbase or kraken or something and i'd like to put it inside the system do you guys offer non-ira services and we've gotten more and more people asking for that

so we've uh we've now built out so anytime you open an ira with us it's like ordering a presidente margarita you get a side car now you've got the side campaign in your non-ira account open and eligible for you what's really cool is we have partnered with um lending usa which is a group that we've worked with for years uh to allow folks with those companion accounts to borrow and use your Bitcoin as collateral, which is, I think there were two themes from the conference. Most of it's financialization, yield on Bitcoin and other assets, and the financialization tool to use my holdings to get more money so I can go make real estate investments, other asset investments, whatever it might be, leverage the power of my smart decisions. I see. And so when

you're borrowing that money, like one of the things I find interesting is, okay, so I've got a bunch of money, just use $100 sitting in the retirement account. I borrow $50 of it. I can go and i can invest now when i pay back that loan right paying it back to yourself yeah you're paying it back to yourself and you're not paying any tax on it yep it's pretty uh pretty same it's same tool that people use with trust accounts too when if you look in the uber wealthy that are out there they never have income they have it sit in a trust they take loans against it and then they divvy it up to their kids and grandkids and then those loans come back over time off of income sometimes they never even get repaid and that's that's the bucket that uh that's

why when everybody gets upset that president Trump paid $700 in income tax because he used the tools the right way. Yeah. One of the things I never understood is people always attack from a tax perspective. And again, there's people who do things wrong with tax all the time, right? So those people, obviously, if you do something wrong, you should get in trouble, whatever, but the tax code is available to everyone. Yeah. Now there are certain people who are in a position because they own a business or they, whatever, but if you start a business, you also get the same benefits. If you own real estate, you get the same benefits. Right. And so to me, it's less about like, Oh, rich people get some advantage as much as it's really an education thing.

Yeah. Right now with AI, you can use it to your advantage. So when I was moving, we were in Los Angeles, we had the fires. I was tired of the taxes. I started the homeless. I was tired of the crime. So I said, I told the family, we're going to get out of here. And I was looking at South Dakota, Wyoming, Nashville. Um, and then we landed on Arizona, which doesn't have the best tax situation it's like two percent state income but i took my earnings i took my expenditures i took all my data and i just went into my ai program and said based upon these things plus non-financial things so my wife has a huge family in california i want to keep her in close proximity they will give you suggestions like if you're not using ai you will be left behind so personally

this is why we built this is why you guys built so yeah it's amazing this is literally the entire idea i just walk into a plug for your amazing new product i love it i love it um no but the whole idea of just like context plus the superhuman intelligence should give you these great insights. And you know what? There's a lot of people on the internet. They did not like Sylvia, these financial advisors, CFPs, CFAs, you know, all these guys, CPAs. But if they use Sylvia, now they are giving themselves steroids because there's still a personal touch with everything. A lot of folks talked about that at the conference and over my media tour this week is like AI is powerful, but only to those that use it. We're not going to be

in a completely robot world. Right. I hope not. I mean, Amazon might be, I think you mentioned they're trying to have more robots and AI employees than human employees within the next five to six years, but there's still, there's still guys that have to weld. There's still guys that have to do a lot of different things. And if you can use power to the power of AI to be better at what you do, then you're going to probably beat. You're going to, you will definitely beat anybody else in your, in your class. You know, it's funny, right? It's like, there's one guy, he was all upset and he was like, oh, people are using this tool. You know, you still need humans, whatever. So he said, let me go look to see what was, what business guy

work at. And he's not the owner of the business, but he works at a business and it's like a financial planning, financial advisor, you know, type business. Okay. So I go on the website and of course they don't ever put their fees anywhere. So I go and I look for some reviews, whatever. If you have less, I think I can't remember if it was less than a million or less than $5 million of assets with them. You pay almost 2% a year. Oh yeah. Two and 20 models still out there, but, but they don't, they don't take 20%, but just this isn't like you give them the money they go and invest it. This is like, I just provide like financial planning advice, but they charge 2%. I'm sitting there saying to myself, wait a minute, you're telling me somebody is

paying you 20,000, 50,000, you know, depending on these different levels for you to give them information that literally exists on the internet now is free on Google or AI software or whatever. And all it just told me it was like, one, those businesses are actually gonna be way more resilient as much people who aren't going to be proactive and they're going to keep paying or whatever but two is like that business is going to get destroyed over the long run because now there's all this insight i bet you that same financial provider that never has said bitcoin's a good idea too i mean it's we go back it's the horse and buggy when the cars came out right it's it's every legacy industry always struggles against new and you and i joke about this all

the time when you do legacy media i do legacy media these are my favorite interviews because we're like-minded individuals but sometimes we have to you i love the way you battle it out i think you're like a sparring master sometimes because it's like you you will take an interview i was joking i was like why would he even take that interview he's been on stage for 12 hours today he's crushing it like why even i know exactly what interview i know exactly which one yeah i had her yesterday and and i said to her right right before the interview so there's a reporter who i recently talked with uh not worth mentioning who she is and uh as we uh were prepping for the interview she started to say you know hey what do you think about this and so i told her

what i thought and within 30 seconds i knew i was like this woman is living in this uh world that's been concocted by the mainstream media which is not reality yep right and so i said you know inflation is coming down she's like what do you mean is that 2.7 percent and this is like three or four days before the cpi and i was like uh no it's not it's under one percent and she was like well just bls and i was like you know bls stands for her bullshit your piece recently but cow is Is it Kashi or Kalshi? Kalshi, Kalshi. Yeah.

That's going to be a game changer. I think that is the democratization of data. It's two different things. So Truflation now, for those that don't know, Truflation, the data came out that it has a 97% correlation of the CPI with a one month lag. So if you look at what Truflation says with 97% correlation, a month later, you'll know what CPI is going to say. Well, right now, Truflation is below 1%.

Every single day so far in 2026, inflation, according to Truflation, has been below 2%. There's not been one day where it's been over 2%. So when you look at the 97% correlation, given where Truflation is, one month lag, in the next 60 days or so, it is believed that the CPI metric could go as low as 1%. So it was at 2.7. Now it's at 2.4. It could go to 1%. Let's see. If that correlation holds, there's going to be a lot of people who are very interested in Truflation.

The second thing, which is the prediction markets, the Federal Reserve. This is not like some crackpot blog website. This is the Federal Reserve. uh you know isn't right all the time but still they put out a post and they called it kaoshi and the macro market yeah and what they basically looked at is is kaoshi accurate at predicting some of these economic data and they've been down like the day before on everything so the thing about the day before is it is helpful right to know the day before okay what is the federal reserve going to do you can see trend lines earlier right possibly inflation whatever the

reason why i like true flation so much is because it tells you a month or two in advance what is going to happen with inflation. Now, the part it doesn't tell you is what is the Fed going to do about it, right? Whereas Cauchy, what they will do is they will tell you 24 hours in advance, okay, we put certain odds at this is going to be the Fed interest rate decision. So you have to use multiple tools here together to kind of triangulate this. But what I find most valuable is essentially the entire private market is calling the bluff of the BLS and the government. They're saying, listen, we don't believe you anymore. So we're going to go build our own private market solutions that do this better than you do. And now you're seeing that people are

having to capitulate and say, you know what, they are more accurate. I'm curious to see when they start looking at this non-farms data and this unemployment data, because I've never, in a decade, I've never trusted that stuff. One big thing is if you're on unemployment for, I think, 18 months, you fall off. So you're not even counted anymore. That data is so out of whack with what's really happening. And that's a key element of deflation, right? If AI is putting pressure on jobs job unemployment goes up at the same time prices are dropping now we're in a whole new marketplace um so no i think it's pretty cool what's happening for a second uh does a does a youtuber count as a job does a podcaster count as not not in that does a sub stack writer count as

a job does uh a gig worker count as a job there's a guy that has three of those jobs count as a job or three jobs there's so many questions right you know for a guy that didn't like math you're pretty fast with it i gotta tell you what math did i do you just well i mean in my opinion understanding how trufflation and all those things work i think that's a little bit we didn't we didn't learn that in math class with the letters if you notice there was no letters in there right it's just numbers i'm fine with the numbers it's the letters that are hard right so you start to uh you start to think about i will tell you one story about uh math that you'll appreciate when i was in iraq we were driving down uh this road and i'll never forget the middle of the night and we saw something

that was happening and we're trying to figure out how far it was and uh it was it was kind of hard to measure and so i saw that there was this light pole and that was going to be easy to measure to and i remember saying to everyone i said i remember there was something about like a triangle and the distance and all this stuff i don't know how it works y'all can figure that out but just go back to you know you measure the two sides of the triangle or something yeah whatever and i remember them just being like you're not wrong but also like how do you not know how to do that And I just remember, hey, man, that's why I got you guys. But that's leadership, right?

You're like, hey, this is how you're going to calculate it. Please go calculate it. Yeah, I was willing to go run into the danger, do whatever I needed to do. But doing the math calculation, I was going to leave this to somebody. I didn't want to risk my life on my math calculations when it came to triangulating distances. I was going to leave that to people who are much smarter than me. That's fair enough. That's fair enough.

All right, last thing I've got for you is if we get this deflationary pressures and there is headwind for asset prices, what should people be thinking about? Should they be trying to put more assets in? Should they be trying to borrow more? Like, how do you see people kind of playing with these portfolios and these wrappers that they have if there is some sort of headwind for asset prices? The nice part about the asset wrappers is they're pretty much stable no matter what the market condition is.

So whether we're facing inflation or we're facing deflation, being able to use the wrapper doesn't change. What we're seeing folks do right now, and I have this beautiful privilege to sit at the crossroads of retirement and crypto is that most folks, because the tax deadline's hitting here on April 15th, that's your last day to contribute for 2025, whether it's a solo KSF or Roth or traditional, they're looking at this as it's Macy's red tag sale. I now can get more of the asset I already love. I love Bitcoin. And instead of having done this in October, I'm going to do this now at 66, 67,000. I'm going to get more Bitcoin for my buck.

And I'm going to continue to use my wrapper and continue to tuck money into those really in retirement hacks at the end of the day. Now, I was actually going to ask you with inflation, I feel, or with deflation, I feel like the Fed, whether we get this new nominee or not, and great ideas and great, I like where his headspace is at, that we need to get from easy money to sustainable growth. The toolkit is very limited now. Ever since Bernanke and basically the bazooka of printing billions and trillions of dollars that we just carried forward for now two decades. There's not a lot they can do other than drop rates and print more. And if either of those two things happen, risk on assets, whether it's tech stocks,

cryptocurrency, Bitcoin, anything, I think that you're going to get that injection of liquidity. And there's a lot of money sitting on the sidelines in cash right now because it's supreme. It's the easiest way to make four to five percent above prime. You don't have to lock it up for long time periods, 24 hours. When those rates start dropping and more liquidity is coming in, then that money is going to have to move somewhere. And it may move to precious metals, may move to cryptocurrency, may move to real estate. Having a little bit of all of that is a great diversified modern portfolio and using the IRA wrappers around it now saves you for generational wealth and the lag of taxes. Yeah. I think there are pressure release valves

and whenever there's pressure building up in the system, you will see that escape into assets. And that's why gold, I think, ran so much, right? As people basically were like, wait a second, If gold is a pressure release valve for central banks in particular, and there's a bunch of pressure that is building up in terms of their relationship with fiat currency, then the pressure is released. It goes into that store of value. That's why they started all buying gold. That gold then goes up in price because it's a relatively scarce asset. And so same thing happens in other people's portfolio. What I do find interesting is the tokenization of gold is going to actually bring in more gold holders than otherwise, because now they can just do it digitally.

Our clients love it. We have it on ours. Oh, do you? They absolutely. They'll move into it. We've had a lot into it over this last couple of months because of the rise in gold. And I think that some folks, especially those folks you said got in so early, they've seen that win to $100,000. They're like, well, you know what?

I think it's time to take some chips off the table. But I don't like dollars, but I like gold long term. So they just flipped over some of their Bitcoin into a long-term hold for gold. Makes sense, right? Yep. Yeah. So, all right. We're working with some people to find out more about Bitcoin IRA.

So, and not just Bitcoin IRA, but we have experts that know a lot of these different retirement vehicles. They've helped people put these Raptors together with solo case steps. You can call our main line, 877-936-7175, or visit bitcoinira.com forward slash pomp. Got a nice little special. So you know me, I always come in with something for the audience, not just the value. and i do my homework but uh up until so we're doubling the incentives we want people to remember to get their taxes their tax contributions done so if you get your contributions and fund your

account before march 15th you will get up to two thousand dollars in rewards wait you're gonna give two thousand dollars to people up to two thousand two hundred thousand sorry two thousand dollars of rewards okay if you do it early if you wait till tax day we'll give you up to a thousand dollars in rewards. Okay. So somebody between now and March 15th goes and they have to open an account and they have to make their tax contribution for 2025. Yep. Take their tax contribution. Also, let's look up and see if you've got any of those left behind 401ks. We talked about 2.6 trillion sitting there. And if you have an IRA over at Fidelity, otherwise you want to get some real tangible Bitcoin or crypto in a segregated secured wallet for you. All those

can come in. Those are three ways to fund it. And then everybody, no matter when you do it, april 15th or march 15th you'll get a nice piece of bitcoin ira swag so you can wear it proudly as we watch the market go uh to the next level how do you determine if i get two thousand dollars or not it's how much you deposit in so i think once you get to the total if you go to the pomp landing page all the details are there but i think it's up to if you do 250 000 then you'll be at the top level of 2000 so i can get up to two thousand dollars free from you guys yep not bad hey listen to a podcast could get up to $2,000. Pretty good. And learn about new rappers that they never taught us in school.

Yeah, that's true. I will say that I use Sylvia every single day. It's got all my context of all my assets and stuff. And I will ask from time to time something like, hey, what do rich people do for taxes that I should do? And multiple times it has suggested to me fairly complex things that no accountant, financial person, no one's ever told me before. And I'll go and I'll look at it and i have already told you my distribution of uh of tax knowledge so when you have no money you think that rich people are doing all kinds of crazy stuff that's right they've got all these strategies and all this stuff when you get a little bit of money and maybe some of your friends start to get a little bit of money you start talking to everyone you're like hey are you doing anything

what are you doing all stuff nobody's doing anything so all of a sudden you start to think like oh dude there is not like this that's all nonsense nobody's doing anything but then when you start to get a lot of money and you start to meet people with a lot of money. Then you go back to, Oh no, no, no, no. There's a lot of strategies that people are using. So you kind of have to get over the hump of it. There's a difference between somebody who's got, you know, a hundred grand, 200 grand and somebody who's got a hundred million dollars, not only in the amount of money they have, but in the way that they think about so many of these tools and all this stuff. I always, I always say April 15th is the favorite day of the year for people that don't make a lot

of money. October 15th is the worst day of the year for those of us that make a lot of money. it's two different cycles of the tax season. That is true. All right. So bitcoinira.com slash pomp. Yep. And they can go there and they can get some of the rewards. Yep. And if they want to talk to a real person, retirement's not a one-size-fits-all strategy. They can call 877-936-7175. Having the phone number is pretty good. Helps. Yeah. All right. Sounds good. We'll talk soon. Thanks, buddy.