The Pomp Podcast - John McAfee, Founder of McAfee Associates: Inside the Mind of Crypto’s Bad Boy

Episode Date: March 27, 2019

John McAfee is the Founder of McAfee Associates. For this conversation, Anthony Pompliano travelled to Exuma, Bahamas to record this interview in person, and to give John a platform to tell his own story. ----- Join the Off the Chain newsletter. Pomp's daily email analyzes the crypto market for institutional investors. Simply, it’s the best crypto newsletter delivered to your inbox every morning. No frills. No bullsh*t. Just everything you need to know in a 3-minute read. https://offthechain.substack.com/ ---- Totle is a rare blockchain investment opportunity, one that offers a live product, active customers, an established revenue model. Totle solves three significant problems with blockchain asset exchange: 1) Security 2) Complexity and 3) Pricing. Over $4 trillion of blockchain assets were exchanged in 2018 and growth is forecast for at least the next 10 years. Totle’s sophisticated platform powers the blockchain economy with safe, simple decentralized asset exchanges at the best price for traders, wallets, businesses and other financial apps. Totle’s B2C Web App and B2B API are live and serving customers today. Visit totle.com/pomp for more info. ----- If you enjoyed this conversation, share it with your colleagues & friends, rate, review, and subscribe. This podcast is presented by BlockWorks Group. For exclusive content and events that provide insights into the crypto and blockchain space, visit them at: https://www.blockworksgroup.io

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off The Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. The following interview is with John McAfee, who many of you will know as the founder of McAfee Software. I traveled from New York City to Exuma, Bahamas to record this interview in person on John's boat. There was no money exchanged, and I paid for everything myself. While John has plenty of interesting ideas, some are also controversial. There are aspects of what John says that I agree with, and there are many that I vehemently disagree with. With that said, nothing that John states in this recording should be taken as an endorsement by me, Morgan Creek, or any of our affiliates.

I felt it was important to allow John to tell his story in his own words, so the only editing that was done to this recording was for audio quality. Additionally, as you will hear, John's voice is a bit raspy from a bout with laryngitis, so you will have to focus to hear him in a few situations. I really enjoyed this conversation and found John to be kind, intelligent, raw, blunt, and passionate. I'll let you listen and draw your own conclusions. I hope you enjoy it. I'm sure a lot of you have used kayak to find the best flight.

Total's kind of like kayak, but it don't find you no flights. It helps you find liquidity on decentralized exchanges and it optimally routes your trades for execution. So Kayak, you find flights. Total, they help you find liquidity. We should get Kayak on for this spot that I'm providing them, but Total instead is our advertiser and you should go visit total.com slash pomp. Again, that's total.com slash pomp and let them know that I sent you. Tell them you love their product. Take a screenshot, tweet it at me. I'll drop you some fire emojis, and then we'll all be happy. So total.com slash Pomp. Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his

guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. Guys, I'm here with John McAfee. Flew all the way down to Exuma to do an interview. Thank you very much for having me come. Oh, thanks for having me. What's that out there, guys? John is in rare form and ready to go.

All right. So first, let's just talk about your background. I don't think a lot of people know you started out working with NASA. Yeah, first let's talk about my laryngitis, which started yesterday. Half of my team is here to talk for me. I'll talk as much as I can. I started at what? NASA. NASA.

No. No, what did you do? I worked for Univac. Univac. It was a diverse computing company. Then IBM and then NASA. Okay? And then what did you do after NASA?

Just fucked around. I mean, I never really worked hard. All right. Well, you eventually ended up at Lockheed Martin. Yes, that was a lot later. All right. And when you ended up at Lockheed Martin, the brain virus, right, they basically sent that to you and said, hey, figure out how to stop this?

Well, no. I was working on a black program. It's a program that doesn't exist. That's how crazy our fucking government is. Anyway, it's a great job. So I did a top-secret security clearance. They asked me questions like, did you ever fuck a goat? Did you ever cheat on your wife?

Did you ever deal drugs? Well, I answered yes to everything except the goat fucking. So I thought, I'm not going to get this. Two weeks later, it came through. And I think because they asked questions like, did you ever take drugs? Yes. What kind? Everything.

Did you ever sell drugs? Yes. What kind? Everything. You can't blackmail me because I've got no fucking secrets. All right. And so what was the genesis for the idea for McAfee, the antivirus software? It was an accident.

My brother-in-law read about the Pakistani brain. I got a copy, looked at it, and said, well, fuck, this is easy. I came up with a solution to stop it, put it up on my board system, and forgot. But then fire, it just became real. And so did the company. And so when you first started the company, though, you started while you were at Lockheed, right? And then when you went full-time, you were just selling it into corporations? They just didn't have any other solutions or what?

Well, I came to it free at first. I didn't want to deal with it. But I kept getting hundreds of requests per day for help. So I just started a company, sold it to corporations. I made $11 million my first month. You made $11 million your first month? Yes. You realize that's incredible, right?

Especially when it's like late 80s. $11 million in the late 80s is a lot more than $11 million today. Yeah, it is. All right. So you did that. And then you sold your stake in the company pretty early, right? Like before it became as big as it is today. Why did you do that?

I was bored. You were bored? I was bored. All right. I mean, I enjoy doing the technical stuff. I end up doing staffing, board meetings, stockholders meetings. Oh, that's boring shit. Why should I do that?

Basically, you enjoy the technical parts, but you didn't like the part of actually running the company. Oh, fuck no. No. All right. That's fair. I can't even run myself. All right. And then as you were, after you sold the stake in the company, the internet bubble hit, right?

Yeah. What was that like? What do you remember about the internet bubble in the late 90s? Okay, I remember meeting with both the Yahoo people and the Google people. Okay. Well, they were still at home. Okay. The Yahoo and the Google people, while they're still at home.

Who was it? The Chinese guy at Yahoo. I remember saying, I stupidly did not invest in either. Okay, you didn't invest in either Yahoo or Google. No. All right. And then how much of it is similar to what we saw in 2017 with the cryptocurrency boom versus differences in the internet boom and the cryptocurrency boom? All booms are the same.

They're all the same? Yes. The people who can see it go, God damn, this is going to run. And they invest. Others go, no, that can't happen. And they sell short. And then the real thing happens. Like Bitcoin.

I don't care if it's a penny today. It's going to be $2 million very soon. So even if Bitcoin's a penny today, you think it's going to be $2 million. Why should I care? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Because you're looking out in the future. What's happening in the market has nothing to do with the reality of its value. I think that's fair.

All right. And so as you're going through the internet boom, you eventually start making a bunch of investments in real estate, right? In the housing crisis? Well, some of it. Okay. Don't believe everything you read. All right. Well, that's why I came all the way here to hear from you.

I asked you a few times to do that story. Okay, but what did you do? Everything I had. What? I had had 61 lawsuits at that time. 61. Because I named the company after my name. Don't ever do that, people.

Don't do that. Don't ever fucking do. All right, so hold on. After the internet boom, you made a bunch of investments, right? Yes. Just talk about what were you investing in and why? Let's see. some companies.

My first one was Zone Labs. Okay. Which I co-founded, put in I think a million dollars, we sold it eight months later for $400 million to Checkpoint Software. That's incredible. It was my first investment.

They were all the same. Okay. But you also did non-tech investing? That was all investing. I built a whole bunch of really super cool houses. Okay. A bunch of really cool houses.

I built some. Like I saw Frank Lloyd Wright's MS Block, which he had poured in concrete. Yep. I had it carved,

hand carved out of sandstone and built a 50,000 square foot mansion with it. Wow. It was a piece of art. All right.

It was not in the best way. And then that's what this story was talking about in terms of the housing crisis, basically. Well, basically, I wanted people

to stop suiting me. And the suiting rate went down by 50%. So, at the time of the housing crisis, you had 61 lawsuits. And then once everyone realized, hey, he didn't have as much money as we thought he did, lawsuits disappeared. Yeah. Makes sense. They're back, of course.

Yeah, yeah. Well, so let's talk about crypto. When did you first discover Bitcoin or crypto? 2011. 2011? And do you remember what that first, like, did somebody send you some Bitcoin or what was the... A guy named Jim Zeromsky who had worked for me. Two or three different companies worked for me.

Okay. brilliant technician said um he called me said i'm mine i'm mining i go well good for you so 2011 somebody who worked for you basically said hey i'm mining crypto he didn't work for me that time oh yeah but he but he had in the past but he said i'm coming to believe well great i'm coming to make you do something go ahead what he made me do was read satoshi's white paper okay so he makes you read the nine page white paper and what what's your thoughts when you read it? I'm a mathematician.

That's what my training is, anyway. Yep. You went to what? Roanoke College and got a math degree, right? Yeah, I went to Roanoke. I actually went to a lot of colleges. Roanoke.

Louisiana State, New York University, University of Munich, all studying math. Ah, and Virginia Polytechnic. Okay. I have an honorary doctorate, that's all.

Now, when i read the paper i saw a thousand years in the future instantly okay which is why i don't give a shit what bitcoin is i know i know i know where cryptocurrency is going and so when you read the white paper what do you do first you just you know that hey this is the future and then do you make investments you start mining what did you do first nothing nothing i'm retired i just saw where going okay and jim was mining and making a fortune that was before that was before the asa miners yep before jihan ru yep who by the way the most humble on this planet and people throw stones at him i want to gouge your eyes out i'm telling you the truth he's one of my

best friends humble sweet nice brilliant i don't think he's ever slept with a woman or left home, however. Nice guy. So you're talking about Jihan Wu who's the CEO of Bitmain, right? Yeah. And so what was the first thing eventually you did in crypto?

Because you're known as a huge crypto bull. So you see the future early, 2011, 2012. What was the first investment you made? You bought a million dollars of Monero. Wow. Why Monero first? Privacy. Privacy?

Because you're a huge proponent of these privacy coins, right? do you realize people most of you don't if you send me an ethereum or a bitcoin or millions of one forever after i see everything in your wallet what comes in what goes out when how much to whom is that rational so what we're talking about is once somebody sends you a non privacy-based coin you know what their wallet is and you can watch everything forever every transaction forever okay so i i agree with you i agree with you that there are certain downsides to that right now certain downs do you listen to this man certain downsides i mean certain

downsides to losing your dick right but so but when you first started uh with the security software right before the internet was really popular there was a there was a huge debate around encryption and eventually the proponents of encryption won and now we have a more private internet today because of encryption do you think that every coin will adopt the privacy features because every coin doesn't need privacy okay so you bitcoin music coin i don't want that to be private especially if i'm successful wait you don't want so you think that some coins will have privacy some coins don't need it and so what about bitcoin specifically you think that bitcoin will really adopt the privacy aspects?

No, I don't. However, Bitcoin will be our standard. It's going to be the gold standard. Okay, so you think that Bitcoin becomes the future gold standard of the global reserve currency, right? And then there are other coins that have very specific privacy features

that are there for a reason. Yeah, you know, the best privacy coins. I'm sorry, what am I doing? Apollo, I think, number one. Safex. It's a great coin. All right. It's not fucking letters.

Apollo, Safex, Monero, Zcash, all of them? I didn't say Zcash. No, Zcash. All right, Monero. You must have a lot of Zcash, right? Huh? You must have a lot. I have no Zcash.

Yeah, yeah. All right. People want to know, where are your investments today? What do you hold in terms of the cryptocurrencies? First of all, I own nothing. You own nothing. All right. Not this boat.

This watch I have a piece of paper for is on loan. from a jewelry store. That's hot. Show them the watch. All right, nice. It's a Bell and Ross. Bell and Ross. All right, basically,

you own nothing. Nothing. And so, as you think of crypto, right, Bitcoin becomes the global reserve currency. What do you think

we have to do to get to the point where crypto is pervasive across the world? Right? What are the things that have to happen for mass adoption to occur?

You have to have a better interface so that grandmothers, plumbers, shoemakers, and people who don't even speak English can interact.

All right. So basically, for the adoption to occur, you need better user and experiences, user and experience. Absolutely. Why should I go

and see a string of X, Y, 1, 2, Q? Fuck me. No. I want to send something to mom. Yep. Give me mom.

So basically, every mass adoption user is going to need that user interface that they're used to on the internet, right? They're not going to actually understand

all the cryptography and all that stuff. What do you think government's response is as this stuff becomes the standard right if all of a sudden bitcoin becomes uh the global reserve becomes standard i don't give a shit you don't think the government's care because they can trace it they can trace it but but do you think it threatens anything that they're doing like do you think

that governments feel threatened by it of course but they're far more threatened by what i've been saying for five fucking years okay what's that privacy distributed exchanges you think that Privacy and distributed exchanges are more of a threat than Bitcoin is. Oh, fuck yes. Because if we have a true distributed exchange, and by the way, I think that Switchdex is the first one that actually has one. Okay. All right. And the privacy coin, how do they shut you down?

They can't. They can't shut you down from exchanging because of the distributed exchange or decentralized exchange. And in the privacy, they can't track you. They can't track you. Got it. And you think those are the two biggest threats to government? Oh, fuck yes. That's why they're after me.

So I promote it. I tell people, listen, this is how you avoid paying taxes. This is how you avoid the burden of government. All right. And so one of the things that is possible is that these decentralized exchanges become the dominant way that people exchange privacy coins. What's the government's response to that? Or do they just not have one? Well, if they sponsor legislation, make it illegal.

But then, what are you smoking? you're doing something illegal is the government stopping you they can't it's the same fucking thing you can't legislate some things like you know your brother

shooting up heroin so you can just do what you want to do yeah so governments just can't stop some things you talked about the fact that the governments are upset that you're promoting some of this right I think a lot of people in crypto know that you're doing coin of the day, all the promotional tweets and stuff. I've been doing it for a year.

Yeah. So talk about like what was the genesis of the idea of doing that and how does that all work, right? Did you just get a bunch of inbound requests and then you pick the ones that you like or what? No. Well, I get thousands a day. You won't believe. People ask me to promote or look at. I can't even pronounce them in a day.

so just so many requests for the yeah and someone was so fucking good like safex yep and it's just simply hey guys take a look at this if we're all using this we'd be in fat city got it so and then but then the problem is every time i did that the price of the coin would triple would triple and the people get mad at you yeah yeah and so but when you did these promotional tweets uh people were paying you for them right how did you come up with how much they should pay you what the market would bear was just whatever people started a million dollars per tweet and if they said no it's a half a million all right so you started a million half a million then most people what they pay you like 100 grand 150 150 that's what i charge for yeah that's not

bad they stood in line yeah they stood in line and you got paid 150 000 to send out a 280 character tweet yes you realize that's crazy right no no he's done listen i've been sued 200 times how How many times? 200. 200? Over 200. Lawyers are crazy. That's probably true.

In many cases, that's definitely true. Yes, it is. So, no, I'm not crazy. No, no, no, you're not. But the fact that people are willing to pay that much money, right, means you have a lot of influence. Okay, my most expensive lawsuit was a wrongful death involving my nephew. Okay.

He was flying an airplane that took off from a piece of property allegedly owned by me. Okay. In an airplane, allegedly owned by me, crashed, killed himself and his passenger. I was sued by the same people who got $50 billion from the Libyan suit, Kreindler and Kreindler. Eight years, $11 million in legal fees that I had to pay. And what did they want from you? Why are they suing you? For the wrongful death. My nephew took off in an airplane from a runway allegedly owned by me in an airplane allegedly owned by me.

Wrongful death. Just like this last thing was a fall. They were $25 million. Yeah. So they're just coming after you. That's crazy. Yeah. What was the response to the promotional tweets?

Do you think people liked it? They loved it. They loved it. Well, people who were in Arthur Coyne's didn't. Yeah. Basically, if you talked about their coin, they liked it, but people who were in other coins didn't like it. Got it.

Do you feel like you would keep doing it, or do you think that, hey, there's a point in time where the promotional tweets were important, and then now they're just not as important? I stopped a year ago. You stopped a year ago? Why'd you stop? I got too much fucking slack. People were too upset? No, they were seriously upset. Do you regret that you did it? No.

No? I told people what I thought. Yeah, so you just felt like... I still do it. You know, people go, oh, he's getting paid for this well maybe maybe not but i promise you i'm not promoting them unless i fully believe that this is a thing and i'll frequently go hey then contact me god damn you've got a great and a great concept if you need me i'll charge you half price got it so basically you're only promoting things that you fully believe in and then and then you say to them hey i'll charge

you only if i believe in it i'll show you after this i get 10 to 20 requests per day for people begging me to promote the coins. Yeah. I take one out of maybe 200. All right. That's good. Let's talk about politics. You're running for president.

I am. That's what you said. Are you? Are you shutting the campaign down? No. I'm not really running for president. I mean, I've got signs everywhere. I lost my mask.

Oh. All right. But you've got this platform, right? You're able to push a campaign. let's say that uh if you were to actually run what's the playbook to beat donald trump what does a candidate need to do to to win to be president today i don't care and neither should you neither should anybody why do you think that donald trump or hillary clinton or jfk resurrected from the dead is going to matter no fucking people it has nothing to do with the personality

It has to do with the structure and the existing state of our government. Number one, we don't know what the truth is. We get lied to while they spy on us. Do they not? Do you think if I'm on your podcast, you'd better turn in your phone and get a new one because you're going to be tapped by the feds, by the FBI, the NSA, the CIA. Do you know them all? Do you think that every American is just operating under the assumption

that we're all being spied on? God, I hope so, because it's the truth. Yeah. There is no privacy. Do you think that's true in every country, though? No. No, you think there's some countries where they're not actually spying on all the citizens? Absolutely.

Yeah? What country would you say is the best when it comes to privacy and non-surveillance? Poland. Poland. Yeah. It's pretty, it's pretty. I don't know if I can do any public jokes to explain why, but yes, France. Yeah. So you think that there's a bunch of European countries for the most part? I didn't say European. I just gave you two examples from Europe.

All right. Poland, France. Poland, France. India. India. Pakistan. Yeah. Those are four. So when I told people I was coming to interview you, I asked for questions. And a lot of people want to know your thoughts on issues around politics and around being the president.

So I'm going to read off a couple of topics. And you tell us your thoughts, right? You bet. On the wall and immigration. I have no clue. Neither do you. Neither does Trump probably. Seriously, we don't know the exact numbers.

We don't know statistics. We don't know the truth of anything. We are fed a bunch of lies that are collated and polished by the CIA, checked off by the NSA, and every Monday when Trump is designing who to murder in the Middle East, checked off by him. What is – forget all the numbers and forget all of that stuff. Just if you think about immigration in general, should the U.S. have open borders, closed borders? What should the approach be if you're – what would you set the standard at? well i'm fully in line with john who goes imagine there's no country fuck me why should an imaginary line prevent someone from taking a step from one part to

another part of the desert or the mountain or the fucking river please yeah so you think that the the borders being uh these imaginary lines on a map actually are huge problems and if we Just get rid of them. Yeah. Yes. I'm sorry. What am I doing? Nothing.

For your throat, Brian. For your throat, Brian. Why? For your throat. I'll drink it first. Give me here. No. Okay, here's something.

All right. For the first four years of our marriage, and even now, if someone hands me a drink, I never drink it. Why? If someone cooks me a meal, I never...

Explain it, please. Oh, because... Because we have to make sure that no one's trying to slip in my Mickey. Yeah. and take his body. Now, Janice knows for a fact people have been trying to speak for this

right? Yes. Why? Do we have to tell the story? Yes. Well, because I was once one of those that was hired to do the same to John. So that's why. Yes. So I was hired to

well, I was persuaded under threat of honey and whiskey for your throat. To Under the threat of my children being harmed, I had to do certain things to help those that wanted to collect John collect himself. Now, not being an idiot, I knew all of this while it was happening. However, the joke is, he goes, I'll drink it first. For three years, if she touched anything, I ain't touching it.

I'm going to put that shit in my body. Come on. Even before she came clean, yes? Yes. I'm not stupid. I'm 73 for a reason. the entire world's been trying to kill me for 48 years

alright let's go back to the political stuff what do you think about the financial regulation on Wall Street here's the issue people you are living in a soup bowl of shit

you know nothing about the truth because the government has misled you you're living lives of slaves getting up in the morning commuting an hour to work, working in some airless, joyless fucking office, nine hours a day, five days a week, the rest of your fucking life, and you compete for that?

You want it. You want to be a higher-level slave. No, fuck me. This is your life. And instead of looking at your life, you want to ask me about financial regulations on Wall Street? what the fuck does that have to do with your life nothing wake the fuck up and you too i'm awake i came all the way here to talk to you

all right let's talk about uh the war on drugs because i know that you've got a bunch of ideas here about that right all right we're on drugs so uh first of all it affects me okay decriminalization of marijuana all in right you fully believe that we should decriminalize marijuana let me answer to all questions and it's relevant. All right. Our bodies and our minds belong to us, not the government. What possible cause could anybody have to say, John, don't smoke that weed, don't drink that booze,

do not shoot out that heroin, and for God's sake, whatever that lab in China just sent you, and you're the first person in the world to take it, don't do it. It's my body, it's my mind What I put into both is mine Nothing can ever change that Think about it All the laws in the world

When America passed the abolition Made alcohol illegal Did it stop? Fuck no We consumed more alcohol during that period Than in every period in our history You can't stop people from smoking weed from fucking at the age of 17

from taking whatever they want to fucking do because that is people. Governments do not understand. You cannot legislate actions which involve the relationship between you and yourself. And so your whole thing here is that personal freedom should trump everything else, correct? Without what is it?

You're not alive. Without personal freedom, who are we? So let me ask this then. So I generally agree that personal freedom should be the standard. But what do you think to the people who say the things that you do don't just affect you, they affect other people, right? If you go and you take a bunch of drugs and then all of a sudden you're driving and you run into somebody or you do something crazy and somebody gets hurt, right? Where's the line in terms of what affects you versus affecting other people? Would you please analyze what she just said?

I told you I was going to ask that question and you answer what you want. What this man said was, if I shoot up heroin, I'm going to kill somebody? No. What he should say is, what might be just influenced what is. Please, God, what might be. What happens if I don't take heroin, and I'm not calm, and I'm angry, and I shoot somebody? Christ Almighty, you can't let what might happen influence any fucking decision you ever make. Please, God, people, no.

What might be, could be anything, what is, is the fact that you have control of your body. If you choose to use that body to shoot somebody, or to love somebody, or to sleep, or to take drugs, we cannot control the entire fucking world. We can't make our lives safe. Life is not safe, I promise you. spy come here please so part of part of john's part of john's security team spies here spy introduce yourself tell him why you called spy yeah been stabbed in the eye he's been stabbed in the eye how many times you've been shot three times three times so spy's been stabbed in the eye

And shot three times. So a spy can promise you, for him, life is not safe. And I can promise you, for me, my life is far less safe than spies. And I think he will agree. Life is not safe. If you try to make it safe, you kill it. You kill that energy which invigorates and creates joy and bliss and mystery. what mystery is there in knowing that ah i'm safe no one's gonna shoot me

fuck me in the ass without that without vaseline no life is fine that's no life let me ask you this question i i would say that you've lived life to the fullest more than 99 of other people right do you have any regrets in life none none not even this woman here all right what do you uh if you're president what do you do with space travel should we go first and foremost if i'm president we're in an alternate universe and i can't tell you um no i'm not here to be president i'm here listen who cares who's president if we're still slaves if we're still lied to if we have no truth how do i make fucking

decisions without facts. No, I'm here just to say one thing. Look at yourself now. Look at yourself now. Are you happy in this community existence with your job, with your spouse, paying taxes,

having the bank on your car, your house? Does this make you happy? If so, God bless you, please invite me and tell me how you did it. But if you're not, then stop trying to fix it by going off on some tangent that has nothing to do with it. Because politics has got nothing to do with your current suffering or situation or discomfort.

It's your lack of understanding of you. has applied to politics, please God, see that you don't understand anything about the people who have elected. I only have one suggestion. Vote them all out. Get derelicts from the fucking street. It'll be better. There'll be no power structure that they'll have to worry about. Please God, just see the truth. We have a hundred years of corruption growing inside a government designed to serve us. When is the last time the government served

you? Seriously served you? They look like they are our masters. They are our servants. Please, God, will you get that through their heads? You served me as a congressman. You served me

as a president, which is why I don't want to be a fucking president. I like working for people. What do you think about different mind-altering drugs. What is the things that you use

on a daily basis to go to the places that you want? All right. I get this question a lot. Obviously. People say, what's the best drug?

For what? For self-analysis? For sleep? For sex? For introspection? For loving your neighbor? Fuck me, I don't know.

Tell me what for. I don't have a favorite. I've taken every drug known to man. I don't advise it, by the way, which is why I'm so crazy. But still, drugs, what are drugs? I mean, they are substances that influence either the body or the mind in one way or the other. This is a fucking drug. You try not drinking water for a week and you drink water.

You'll see what the drug is. Yeah. No, we do it constantly. And so do all animals. All animals do this. They go to those things which alter their perceptions of their surroundings. And more importantly, of themselves. So I can't answer that question.

Give me specific answers. What? Bath salts. What the fuck is bath salts? You know what? Here's why I'm asking, ready? I think that a lot of people hear about bath salts. They read about these crazy stories, et cetera.

They've got no clue what a bath salt is. they don't know how it works what it does to your mind etc okay this is about bath salt is not a classical drug okay or a an experience bath salts is the name given to every new research chemical which is mind altering okay period why bath salts because you should be able to buy them legally in head shops packaged as bath salts people in the know go hey have you tried mdpd yeah there's got a bit of salt and I'll do it. So you go by

the NDB bath salts which will say put one-tenth of one milligram in the bath water. Stir and sit in it. Well,

that's a tenth of milligram. That's the standard dose. What does it do when you take them in terms of the mental impact? What if we took

dope and packaged it with bath salts? It wouldn't change dope. It doesn't change bath salts as a way of selling

a legal drug. You can't sell even though it's legal and say, snort this or shove it up your ass or inject it. No. Put it in the bath and sit in the bath. You can tell them to do that. That's how I got this name. That's all. It's crazy. You can sell

LSD as a bath salt. Take 100 mics, dissolve it in your tub and sit in it. No, it means take 100 mics, put it on your tongue. That's all it means. It's just a way of coding. It's just a different vernacular for

certain drugs. That's it. All drugs. So, all right. So let's switch from drugs to just more general questions in terms of when you think of your life,

are you happy? As happy as anybody. You seem happy. I am very happy. I was, what was happening the other day was a horrific day

for everybody else. I was having a fucking blast. What were we doing? Your leg got hurt. Oh, yeah. I tore my tendon after that. It was a bad day

for the tendon, but still, I jumped off the boat, tore my Achilles tendon. it was a bad day for everybody except me so i had a wonderful fucking time what john's describing is we're having to do the interview on the boat because as he was jumping off the boat the other night uh he tore his achilles tendon but just had a good day yep fucking it's awesome right what is the average day like what do you do every day you're enjoying life you're living your life

what do you spend your day i just don't have an average day you don't have an average day wake up in the morning people go what are we doing today i don't know yet coffee seriously that's my day every person i've met loves you and says similar things around how much fun you're having the other ones i paid money to that's fair uh what would you say to the people online specifically that say negative things or the haters etc what do they not understand about you that you wish that they understood number one i love you all no matter I don't care how much you trash me, you're my species, you're no different than me. You love, you have dreams and hopes, generous, compassionate, gentle, loving.

You are also hateful, lying, fearful, greedy. We are a mixed fucking bag and we're all the same bag. So if you're operating from one part of your bag, which is I hate you, I understand fully. I've been there. I love you. So let's get that straight. I don't give a shit what you think of me because you can't touch me.

What you say about me, can't touch me. Even shooting at me generally doesn't touch me. You have to be you. And if you are a 12-year-old, I love you, dude. It's a very good one. I love you even more. I love that you love the trolls. They all come around eventually.

Right. All right. So you've run into a bunch of legal trouble. What's the whole situation? You've got everything from taxes to this Netflix documentary. What's your thoughts on all the legal stuff? I ignore everything legal now. You ignore everything legal.

Lawsuits, legal everything. If I find the government's coming after me, I move like I did. Lawsuits, I throw in the trash can. It makes no difference. So this Netflix documentary exploded. Everyone was talking about it for a while. Did you watch it? No.

No, you didn't watch it? I watched it. I live in these fucking shoes. Where am I going to learn from it? Well, no. It was a waste of time. Yeah, yeah. I've never watched anything like that.

Got it. All right. So you didn't watch it. And then you've consistently over the last, what, maybe 10 years, you've moved between Belize, Guatemala, the U.S., now in the Bahamas, et cetera. How much of it is you just don't want to deal with all the legal issues to just you're living your life and these are places that you want to move to well number one the law do you want to answer this well no none of it was that all right janice you've been back from guatemala

since he's been back from guatemala all of the moving around has been because because of um the similar cartel after after him and she was your friend and i'm with him yes and and so i had a handler that was actually working close with the cartel that um was introduced to me through my pimp and so that's how i got involved in trying to do harm to john and so you know over time eventually he he was able to get me out of that situation but the moving that we had to do was because people found out where we lived and so there were attempts there so we had to move and to save to save for places what what's the most dangerous situation you've been in the most serious the most dangerous happened on december 13th 2012 december 13th i was sitting

i was in a coffee shop just got out of prison in guatemala got back to miami having a cup of coffee last thing in the world i was thinking about was women why because i was in the guatemalan jail with money i had more pussy than god i mean and i couldn't i didn't speak spanish well enough to understand the television station so all i could do was i was happy to be without a woman by the way all the pimps are being a gross this is how it works in other countries very reasonable you go to jail you get you want women you get women you want drugs you get drugs why not you got money so in any case i'm sitting in a coffee shop two o'clock in the morning just got out of prison going god damn the thing i did not have is good coffee instant coffee in the

country that produces the best coffee in the world why couldn't the guards make me real coffee they had to buy a machine there's nowhere to put the machine anyway it doesn't matter so this woman comes up and wonders if i want sex please god first i said what did i say i asked for a cigarette yes and um as you were lighting my cigarette you said what are you girls doing now you're drugging and rolling old men to which i responded we don't use drugs she told me she lost i told her i lost that was it we've been we've been doing everyday shit i forgot the fucking question so the most dangerous day of your life was the day at this point was the day you met her awesome all right uh you made a at the time very popular bitcoin price prediction that was going to

half a million then you went to a million dollars I'm considering going to two you're considering going to two million but you said a million dollars by 2020 or you'd eat your dick

by 2020 yes alright sticking by it fuck yes alright two questions for you that everyone really wants to know

one are you going to do it on national television what's the fans I mean because when I'm going to have my listen I don't do work myself

okay everybody knows that yes I subcontracted out you don't do work yourself alright I'm not too lazy So that, just in case I'm wrong,

I already have that subcontracted out. There is a place in Bangkok, one of the most beautiful prostitutes in the world, that can suck dick for hours, sometimes days. So I've contracted with 30 of them on a relay team with the instructions to keep trying until I die, all right? Really? Yes.

Why would you go up to $2 million? It doesn't fucking matter. I'll get my dick sucked forever. All right. That's fair. What do you think is going to happen to Bitcoin's price? Do you really think it's going to go to a million in the next couple of years? Hopefully a million, yeah.

A million. Maybe not two. But a million. Please God, run the fucking numbers. Do you realize that while Bitcoin is going up in value, its price has been going down? What's going to happen? When the reality kicks in and everybody's fucking using it and it's really worth a billion dollars of fucking coin. Because really, if it's the universal currency, that's his goddamn value.

There's only 21 million of them. Four million of them are seriously lost forever. Please, God, run those numbers. Yeah. So your whole argument here is that— Don't they teach math in school anymore? Your argument is the fundamental value continues to increase regardless of where the price goes. And the price has to catch up to the value.

Yes, yes, yes. Please, God. Yeah. I think that's fair. All right. Before I wrap up, I always ask rapid-fire questions. You're fucking paying me. But listen, by the way, your voice is held up great.

You're doing a great job. What's the most important company in crypto? Bitmain. Bitmain. Wait, why Bitmain? Because of Jihan? Okay. So I start off by saying that Jihan, number one,

he's the most humble man I've ever fucking met. He's also the smartest. Do you realize that Bitcoin is nothing more than a stepping stone? It was a hobby for him That the S9 And everything that he has done Really a hobby His true interest is artificial intelligence

And that son of a bitch has built An ASIC processor An AI ASIC processor That when I looked at it, I'd go I'm in the presence of God So I don't give a shit What people think about him Why they say he's controlling, he's got too much power

Well, fuck me who cares it's in the hands of a humble motherfucker yeah you know thank you

it's ours what's the most controversial thought you have in crypto what's the one thing you believe that everyone else would disagree

with you on your bitcoin prediction no that crypto will bring change and turbulence

into our economy Our society Our beliefs Into our personal relationships And certainly into our awareness Of ourselves And what power really is

That will make The industrial revolution Look like a kindergarten Sandbox game I cannot put into words What's coming down this pike I see it There are no fucking words for it

Just like there's No word for meme before meme appeared. So I can't tell you. I see it, and I promise you it is coming. It is coming. And be strong and survive and bring that joy and freedom into your life,

which comes along with this. What's the one regulation you would change or improve? I think that the prime one, the regulation that says other people can regulate. You would just get rid of regulation in general. I've learned it before. That's fair. What's the most

important book you've ever read? Charles Darwin's Origin of Species, hands down. Why? Fuck me. I'm going to tell you why. Number one, I am the only person in my field of acquaintances in my entire fucking life who's read it.

Why did I read it? Well, I was living then in Mexico for a year. I was desperate to read. I mean, try camping on these fucking backwards Mexican trailer parks. Fuck me, it's boring. I wanted a book. The only English language book I could fucking find was in Guadalajara. Charles Darwin's Origin of Species, and by means of natural selection.

Well, fuck me, at least it's English. I read it cover to cover three times. that's going to be an entire year wow that book I promise you the people I'm talking to

how many people I'm talking to today two, four, six doesn't matter if any of you have read it cover to cover email me

McAfeeNomad at gmail.com McAfeeNomad at gmail.com so your email is and I will fly to you and spend a week talking to you

unless you're in America unless you're in America I can't go there People who have read Charles Darwin's Origin of Species Cover to cover Should email you

At McAfeeNomad At gmail.com And if I can come to you I'll bring you to me Because I've never met A single human Who's read the book Who's read the book

Ever We all talk about it Oh yeah Evolution I know all about it Bull fucking shit You don't know anything You know nothing

Read The beauty I mean I had tears in my eyes When I was a young man With beautiful women shouldn't have had tears in my eyes reading this fucking movie

the beauty, the insights, the depth god damn, if he was here today I would give everything that I own, which is nothing anyway just to say hi to him before I finish and let you ask me a question my last question is always about aliens

you believe in aliens? I am one you are one Are you the only alien, or do you think there's other aliens? We are all aliens in this boat. Why? Because I don't care who you are, what you look like, what your sex is, what your age is. You are unique.

There's nobody like you. There's never been anybody like you, and there never will be anyone like you. You are one of the unique creatures, things, parts of life created for you. For you. Would you rather go to the depths of the ocean or go to space? Which one are you more scared of? I don't want to go either way. You don't want to go to either one?

You're the first person who didn't pick. People go, where would you like to go most? I'd like to go back to some Bangkok whorehouse. That's why. They don't have a party in those places. All right. Before we end, what one question do you have for me? Why the fuck did you come all the way down here just to talk to me?

Because I wanted you to tell your story in your words. Fair enough. I think there's a lot of people who are super interested in what you've got to say, but no one gives you a platform to just say what you believe. I don't have a platform. I take the bar up here and force people to listen to my goddamn platform. You do. So for those listening, we are in Exuma, Bahamas, and we walked up to the bar.

And you actually are a bartender in your spare time these days. Yes. So I always have somebody listen. Another word from our sponsors at Total. They're kind of like Kayak, which helps you find the best flights. But Total helps you find liquidity by aggregating decentralized exchanges and optimally routing trades for execution. Remember, that's Total.com slash Pomp. T-O-T-L-E.com slash Pomp. Go check it out. Let me know what you think. Tweet at me. I'll drop you some fire emojis. Total.com slash Pomp. taking 15 seconds to fill those stars in

and leave a quick review goes a long way in helping us take the entire crypto ecosystem to the top of the charts I appreciate you listening and see you next time on Off The Chain