The Pomp Podcast - Tom Lee, Managing Partner & Head of Research at Fundstrat Global Advisors: Automation is the Only Solution to the Labor Crisis

Episode Date: November 21, 2019

This is episode #4 in the Automation Series. You can learn more about the Automation Series here. You can learn more about IOTA on their website. Tom Lee is a Managing Partner and the Head of Research at Fundstrat Global Advisors. He is an accomplished Wall Street strategist with over 25 years of experience in equity research, and has been top ranked by Institutional Investor every year since 1998. Prior to co-founding Fundstrat, he served most recently as J.P. Morgan’s Chief Equity Strategist from 2007 to 2014, and previously as Managing Director at Salomon Smith Barney.  In this episode, Anthony Pompliano and Tom Lee discuss the impending labor crisis, the necessary implementation of automation to solve the labor crisis, the institutional investor’s viewpoint on crypto, the largest roadblocks for institutional investors getting into crypto, and the state of the investment research industry.

What's up, everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Most of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to Off The Chain, simply the best podcast in crypto. Let's kick this thing off. The following episode is part of the Off The Chain automation series sponsored by IOTA. The goal of this special series is to explore the intersection of distributed ledger technology and automation, specifically around digital currencies, digital wallets, and machine-to-machine transactions. My core belief is that every stock, bond, currency, and commodity will eventually be digitized and distributed ledger technology will empower the full potential of automation to be realized. IOTA is the sponsor of the automation series. Their mission is to support the research

and development of new distributed ledger technologies, including IOTA Tangle. The IOTA Foundation encourages the education and adoption of distributed ledger technologies through the creation of ecosystems and the standardization of these new protocols. You can find out more about the automation series and IOTA in the show notes. Anthony Pompliano is a partner at Morgan Creek Digital. All opinions expressed by Pomp or his guests on this podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Morgan Creek Digital or Morgan Creek Capital Management. You should not treat any opinion expressed by Pomp as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression

of his opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. All right, guys. Bang, bang. I am here with Tom. I'm super excited to do this. You are Mr. Research in the crypto world. Shout out to my Delphi guys, though, too. They're like the Tom Lee of the future. Thank you so much for taking time to come and record. Thanks. Good to be here. Absolutely. Your background first, so that we know your perspective for the conversation. What did you do for Fundshred? So I've been a research analyst since 1993. So for the last 27 years, studied companies and markets.

For the first half of that, I was a technology analyst. I covered the wireless industry. People take for granted today that wireless is everywhere. but in you know 1993 there were 34 million cell phones today there's four and a half billion and in the early 90s everybody thought cell phones were going to be yuppie toys and you know i think that i was very lucky because i was in my 20s covering an industry that was not really considered legitimate but growing very quickly and i uh started to get recognized in this thing called Institutional Investor, which is this research poll that rates analysts. And I became ranked

very quickly. I was one of the youngest people to become II ranked. And I think the reason I was kind of recognized by our clients was I had a different perspective of how technology would be used in wireless, because to me, it was a quantum leap in utility. I think a lot of people thought wireless was going to be a way to protect traditional long distance and local telephony. and um you know so i think that perspective really helped and then um in the early 2000s i switched from wireless to doing bankruptcy research um and i wrote a report called the chapter after chapter 11 i talked about how companies uh that were in bankruptcy were actually better investments than people realize because once a company goes into bankruptcy it

becomes illegitimate and orphaned and so as it emerges no one wants to touch it again so it turns out those are great stocks. And JP Morgan really liked sort of what we were doing there and then asked me in 07 to become their chief equity strategist and write about markets broadly. And so I've been doing that for the last 12 years. And then four years ago, we started Fundstrat with my partner, John Bay. And it's kind of the same thing. We just focus on institutional investors and we give them really detailed, highly researched research on markets and views. And that's what we do how um going from technology to equities to crypto because you guys have started to cover crypto and very quickly become known for it um how did you originally come across bitcoin

or any of the blockchain technology um yeah you know bitcoin was on the periphery while i was at jp market um our fx strategist at the time was writing about it and in 2014 you know he even posited the idea that someday, it might be in a currency basket. And so I think as a macro team, we used to talk about it. But at the time, it was essentially viewed as somewhat tainted, you know, in larger organizations, because it was seen as, you know, used for buying drugs and avoiding taxes. And so I didn't pay too much attention. But then when we started Fundstrat, we were a little more free to kind of just revisit topics and a few years ago we just said let's revisit this whole idea of bitcoin because at the time it it looks like it survived and

we wrote a piece and you know it's just the idea that look even if you were just to make the assumption that this was just going to be digital gold it's probably a huge risk reward and so that was our first sort of thought and and work into bitcoin and when was that that was uh mid 2017 right yeah and then the name fundstrat where's where's that come from uh so it's just a concatenation fundamental strategy um and that's what we are we're a bottoms-up firm that look at bottoms-up data but we develop that into a macro strategy view i think it's different our clients tend to view us as differentiated because strategy work tends to be high level you know based on macroeconomic inputs to derive views. You know, our view is the idea that not only are

top-down important, which it is important, but bottoms-up really helps to confirm or identify variants. So we do Fundstrap. Makes sense. And then just kind of from a researcher standpoint today, how do you view Bitcoin and crypto in the broader macro strategy, right? What are you seeing there? What's kind of the research led you to? You know, I think that if we looked at how funds, institutional hedge funds and individual portfolio managers have survived the past 20 years, they've really adopted and understood the importance of network value companies, you know, so companies where network effects

really come into play. Like your former company, Facebook, all the social media companies. But it's also true that these sort of platform entities and growth are asset light businesses. And that's really what we've seen outperforming in the macro world. Crypto really fits well into that, you know, Bitcoin is really the ultimate network value asset. And it's exactly how the dollar is, right? The dollar is as strong and as well funded as even people argue, it's because the military, I think it's just because it's really widely used. um so i think over time as bitcoin's adoption grows i think it's still a very small number of active users and as it's uh you know volatility improves i think it becomes a true asset class but you know it's it's we're still years away from that for sure and one of the trends i want to spend some time talking about um is the intersection of automation and uh cryptocurrency or digital tokens. We're doing this automation series. And so what I'm really

thinking through is anytime you get multiple macro trends that either intersect or kind of combine, it is usually a point of great value creation, right? And so maybe share a little bit about what you're seeing from public markets and outside of the crypto world, just on the automation front. We'll talk about that a little bit, and then we'll get into kind of the intersection with the with the digital assets um yeah um i think automation is really a mega trend like i think it's a trend that's bigger than a lot of industrial revolutions um okay and i why do you think that well i think that there's two things two really unique things happening in the world today that like at this moment uh is creating you know the big window for automation one is um

cellular technology and penetration and the speed of networks is fast enough now to really enable effective machine to me machine communications you know it was funny because in the late 90s we used to call it telematics you know the idea that oh well when you have mobile cars can talk to each other or devices and you know the handshakes took too long it was easy to intercept the signal you couldn't authenticate if it was a genuine communication so it was too early. Today, with 5G, machines can now speak and handshake and authenticate information that gets lost today. But I think the second really important thing, and I don't think people fully appreciate this, but for the first time in 50 years, the world is running out of labor.

So from 1974 to 2018, the prime age workforce globally grew faster than the total population. And it resulted in that 50-year period, 611 million excess growth on a 7 billion global population, which works out to 27 percentage points more workers available for every unit of output. So, you know, for the last 50 years, you didn't have to worry about being asset heavy or necessarily robots because there was so much cheap labor somewhere. We've now completely flipped. So in the next 10 years, the world is going to be a short 80 million workers. so automation and iot is going to be born out of necessity so it's not the terminator scenario it's more that we're just going to have a shortage of workers yeah when i think of automation you know there's definitely the doomsday of hey we're going to displace a bunch of workers like life's over

you know humans are going to be replaced by all these machines and for me it's like haven't we heard this before right where there's been so many other destructive technologies that it was going of put all the humans out of work and actually what it did was it got us out of work that a lot of people didn't like or it wasn't very good use of our time and it freed us up to go do other things to create to build things etc yeah it's actually the the betterment angle is really the important thing uh i think a really similar example is how frozen food disrupted farming okay um so you know in the 1930s uh 36 percent of the u.s labor force were farmers and if you said in 1936 by 1959 only five percent of the population would be farmers

some economists would say oh you're going to have a massive collapse of the u.s economy because you're going to put 29 of the workforce out of work well the disruption was because of flash frozen flash frozen reduced the spoilage you know 40 of fresh food spoiled it transformed the grocery store used the grocery stores used to almost always be fresh now became frozen and it caused a massive deflation in food wallet you know food used to be 20 of the wallet and it's now less than 10 but that drop in 20 to 10 created discretionary money to go traveling for people to buy TVs. So it actually created a lot of leisure time and productivity in America. And of course, you know, the U.S. boomed. So, you know, taking farmers and putting them into

factories was really productive. Absolutely. And as this happens, do you have a sense of automation becomes just more pervasive through various aspects of work today? Where do the humans go next? Like, do you know what some of those kind of more frontier markets look like, Or do we still need some more time to figure that out? It's a great question. I think, you know, you know, McKinsey had a great study a few years ago where they said, you know, which jobs are the least likely to be automated? And it's things where there's judgment required. So making, you know, research decisions, discoveries, managing people and robots.

I think that that's going to be a source of employment. I think that the other possibility is that people just have more leisure time. And look, today leisure time isn't valued because most people pursue it with maybe not being productive. But in 20 years, what if everyone has an extra 10 hours to study the world, make scientific discoveries, make social observations, do art? I think it could be quite beneficial to society. So, you know, it's a good question. I don't know. For sure.

And, you know, the other piece of it, and I thought of a joke when you said that, is like, you know, the machines are going to replace us. No, I'm just going to manage the machines. Yeah. That's kind of what we've seen in factories, right? You know, before we had any sort of machinery, it was just humans doing the tasks. Then we got machines in place, and now we have people who manage those machines. And the people who got freed up went and did other things. and along your lines of where judgment is required,

I think of it as judgment and or creativity, right? So creativity is kind of a form of judgment. But if you look at all of the things that have popped up through social media, content and all these aspects, people are making real money doing this stuff, right? You could easily see a portion of the population moving to more creative based jobs,

which are just hard for machines to do or that those judgment based jobs that you described. Yeah. And I think it would be really useful to society. I mean, if you think about, you know, who we really respected in past centuries, it was always artists, writers, you know, people making discoveries. In the last 50 years, the only people that really get respected are people who make money. So I think the focus on money is, you know, I think by nature in a world of automation and productivity, money will be less important. Mm hmm. Well, and so it brings me to many people who listen to the podcast know I have two core thesis in this industry of crypto. And the first is that Bitcoin as a store of value is very interesting and has the potential to be one of the most disruptive pieces of technology we'll see in our lifetime. And that thesis is really driven by the idea that people will trust an algorithm more than they will trust other humans. right? At its core, you see that other aspects of your life in the financial world, I think it's

going to happen. And a store of value asset with cryptographic securities is a huge piece of that. The second thesis is every stock bond currency and commodity will get digitized at some point in the future. And really, that thesis is built on the idea that this theme of automation, where machines are actually able to work with each other, talk to each other, get things done when you coordinate them together. Once you have the units of value, the literally stocks, bonds, currencies, or commodities, and the machines can now transact with each other, right? And so that is a huge kind of inflection point for automation, because you're actually digitizing the unit of value rather than just having kind of the two participants in a transaction with digital

or machinery. Yeah, I agree. And I think that, you know, sort of overlaying all that is that it's going to be a transformation of what is accounts for money okay um well today you know money is really defined as a unit of account that a country would issue right and in the past you could have exchanged it for hard money for gold uh today of course fiat currency is now just exchanged for nothing it's just uh backed by nothing um belief system yeah a belief system And but when we think about digital money like Bitcoin, and it's a really brilliant execution, because, you know, as you mentioned, it's really putting trust onto the blockchain instead of saying, hey, look, trust me, this is a real dollar bill. But over time, other things are quite valuable that we don't call money. So, for instance, a reputation or authenticity is worth zero today, but we've seen how it's monetized through sponsorship.

sponsorship. So I think things like reputation or morality or, you know, effectiveness are going to be forms of monetization. And that's really valuable because that means people don't have to worry about, you know, how many dollars they make a month. It's really how much accumulated value do they have that they could exchange for other goods and services. And yes, and even powering robots, you know, you do want to make sure we can sort of authentically cut off and shut down a robot, especially if they get smart. Absolutely. And so when I think of this whole idea of intersecting digital tokens, money, value, et cetera, with the automated machines, the examples that I think through are, there's like a scale of automation, right? Or spectrum. So you have

full automation or you have like semi-autonomous or automated things um and easy examples are uh you know you've got a car it's going to drive down the road rather than stop have a human pull out fiat currency out of their pocket and hand it to another human who then does some accounting right and gives you change and you keep driving that car can simply just drive over a sensor it basically pays from the car a digital asset to um the you know the road or the sensor um all of the the accounting is automated all of the transactions automated the person never even has to slow down they just drop right um we kind of have this with like an easy pass right so you know if you kind of drive through it's just got a little bit more friction than than this fully digital system um

are there other examples where you guys have thought about or come across in your research where you think that there's like very obvious intersections um or things that you get excited about in uh in that well um you know so autos i think interestingly is probably one of the most important and obvious and and really a huge deal um because it really uh blends the idea of like what's money versus time uh to give an example you know when the when the government measures productivity it's measured in tenths of an hour's worked so tenth of an hour worked gained is a productivity miracle okay a tenth of a 40 hour week is basically a tenth of 40 hours which is um you know it's like 10 minutes so if you can cut out two minutes out of someone's commute

right out of a 40 minute commute that is a productivity miracle and automation whether it's like you said passing easy pass or uh you're charging on the road instead of you know at um at a charging station or traffic is optimized that's a productivity miracle and that would show up as like oh my gosh us is having a productivity boom in fact you know commute times the last 40 years have increased in the northeast so people it takes longer for people to get to work the same distance and so you know you could extend how people commute so i think you know what you've described is the single most practical use of automation but there's others i mean i'd say financial transactions broadly anytime that you're exchanging money is probably

the best place to look for automation to boom um today if you look at global financial industry share of gdp so they call value capture according to the oecd it's six percent of gdp so that means six that means the average person spends three and a half weeks a year paying for the right to use the financial system. So, you're spending a month of your salary just to say, oh, I want to use this monetary system. So, I think automation and IoT really take away that friction. And it should be, you know, people should spend one day of their salary a year to use the financial system. That's a huge amount. That's $4 trillion unlocked. And another example, the way to think of it is, you know, today banks lend and they're primarily in charge of determining if you're a good credit.

they make about a thousand dollars a year off each customer. Facebook and social media companies probably have a better feel for you as a credit. In fact, a cell phone company told me that one of the best predictors of credit quality of their customers who are on EIP installment plans is how often they let their phone battery die. So they found that the irresponsible credits are the people that let their phone battery die. So it turns out social media and all these companies can make better lending decisions and through their ability to enter the banking system can really reduce the value capture of the financial industry. It's interesting you say that because I've seen a couple of companies that want to use phone data

to actually underwrite loans, right? So very similar stuff. I want to go back to the machine and machine transactions for a second because, you know, as I've thought more and more about this, i try to draw parallels to the world that exists today right and so if you just think of when you go to starbucks or now even in new york city in the subway you can take your phone which is a machine right and kind of just sweep it in front of a sensor or another machine and pay for things um i then go even as far as to say like you can make the extrapolation of the humans are a type of machine right we just have some advantages over um not we see different energy yeah we yeah we just there's not human machines and there's human machines right yeah um but but uh our face

is now starting to act like a wallet right what i mean by that is you think of the amazon ghost stores right where you literally walk in the facial recognition knows who you are they're able to link that to an account you walk off in the store you pick up items and you walk out and it charges you right so your face acted as you know the equivalent of a wallet in that case um in all of this uh you know i've been kind of thinking about it around the periphery And, you know, when I originally met the guys at IOTA and they were telling me about this like wallet inside of a car, right, I started to think, well, if you have a wallet in your phone, right, that's a digital wallet with digital assets, you can go pay for all these things if you put that phone in front of something. and then you have a wallet inside of your car and your car can basically pay for things you very quickly get to a world where there's a whole bunch of machines that you and i interact with on a daily

basis that could be a wallet in the future or could be a participant in transaction right yeah sender or receiver and so to me it just it changes the way we think about value and transactions and i don't know where the line is like like where is the line of uh reasonable expectations of the future versus you know 20 years ago because we're gonna have flying calls yeah you know yeah there is some line of like what is possible and what's not let's say the next 10 or 20 years where do you kind of feel you know it is likely versus uh maybe some of this stuff is pipe dream stuff and unlikely to occur yeah it's a it's a great question and you know i and iota is really doing some clever things because you know they're not they're capturing uh quite a lot of information

Right. So on on on a on a on a network like that, you not only are capturing maybe the movement of money, but really the transfer of information and and that information is generally lost. I think machine to machine really is the place where we're going to see true network effects take place. And, you know, from what's practical, I think we know it's a dream for advertisers to know for you to exchange more information about yourself. So I think as a practical matter, you know, one of the implications for this is that a lot of things that we do today could actually become free, you know, or or companies may even pay us for just walking around. um you know facebook might pay quality users money to be a subscriber or someone who has social impact uh could actually be paid um and you know is in terms of what's practical i think wherever people feel like they gain personal time that's going to make a difference so you know that's why i come back to the commute i think commuting is probably the biggest loss of time

for people today you know if someone spends an hour commuting that's two hours a day they're awake you know 12 hours it's a huge percentage of their time that just got lost and if it could crazy isn't it you don't have to drive yourself somewhere yeah right you literally could just get into a vehicle in your driveway and be productive whether you want to use it to actually be productive or just entertain yourself that's exactly right time yeah right i mean like that's a pretty serious inflection point in humanity's productivity right that they can do without the week hours that you shouldn't see a lot of people talking about yeah and that's an incredible percentage of time and you know it can be future of hey it's an extension of your living room or

it could be a meeting room or it could be a social period of time or you know there's a lot of ways that could be transformed and that's network value um you know might be interesting to see how sleep is transformed too because you know we spend eight hours sleeping and who knows maybe our sleeping habits or you know the hive mind of what happens in our sleep could be useful information. So, uh, you know, I think there's a lot of things, but I think we all have to think about, you know, how our 24 hours a day is transformed. And so as you look further and further out into where some of this stuff is going, how much of this is sequential, right? So meaning, uh, we need X to happen first, then, you know, Y, then Z, uh, versus it's all going to

happen, uh, kind of simultaneously. And you just kind of push innovation forward. You push, um, progress all at the same time on these different fronts yeah and wireless you know because wireless used to be where a lot of r&d money was spent on you know new technologies um we used to joke it's you know the bleeding edge and it's tough to be a bleeding edge company because the end user doesn't care when it actually happens and i think that if we look at how technology gets adopted it never gets adopted and all of a sudden it is so i think we'll see companies really pushing this on the edge uh even some countries and then one day it's it's pervasive what um any thoughts around this whole uh like neural link uh kernel um the idea of taking computers and i think about it as uh

the mobility of computing power has gone from literally mainframes which had no no mobility and you went to it to then you got to bring it a little bit closer a little bit closer than you had a you know pc then you got a phone and it's just getting closer and closer to us where it goes everywhere we go um but the ultimate end point is it's literally embedded you know somewhere in your body right now i'm sorry about the brain but it could be anywhere pipe dream likely to happen timeline if you think it's going to happen yeah um you know i mean i'm not i wouldn't be surprised if uh you know some of this outbound type of things get implanted because you know I think there's medical uses for that. I think the average person would get very concerned about

privacy and getting hacked because, you know, imagine if someone had a sensor and like they didn't want someone to find out they're like, you know, meeting their, you know, they're cheating on their wife or something, you know, and they send it to the wrong channel. So I don't know. It's interesting. It's going to be an interesting world because, you know, the younger generations are really comfortable sharing their information. You know, there's many surveys that I've seen, and these are global surveys that show young people trust technology companies

way more than they trust banks or governments. So they might be very comfortable sharing this information. And, you know, maybe it'll just be the old guard that sort of, you know, puts a Faraday cage on their body just so that they don't get personally hacked. For sure. Well, and I think, you know, it's kind of like this sci-fi becomes reality at some point.

and so if you think through uh i've been watching movies you know for years where somebody hacks the pacemaker right into his body um and then uh if you watch like black mirror episodes i've literally i've seen probably two or three of them so i'm not a huge watcher of it but the two or three i've watched every time like wow that's pretty crazy um one i remember uh basically your entire day is recorded right so your eyes are recording like like a video and then you can't go home and there's like a woman yelling at a guy like show me the video right and it's literally every single thing he saw out of his own two eyes that's funny and he's got to rewind it yeah do all stuff so that's a little weird um and then the other is uh i kind of even go as far as to say if you're

going to start to implant a machine into your body uh and we go back to the idea that the car could be a wallet the phone could be a wallet like is there a day where actually just the the machine that is in your body is the wallet right and so you actually have all of the properties of a digital wallet it's just embedded within your body i don't think it's happening tomorrow yeah you know 20 30 50 years from now it could become very interesting uh you know i i i would say the majority of the listeners are going to think it's preposterous i don't i don't think it's that crazy um it ties into a very generalized demographic observation i'd have which is you know like when when people think about retirement um social security is really a proxy for how you measure

that right you know you get a social security payment and at the time they established social security and they actually began to measure this with long-term disability so in the 1960s they estimated the average period of time someone received social security would only be seven years so you'd be work all your life and then you get this check for like seven years and then you pass away so at 62 and you're done by 70 yes and today uh people can now expect to receive it for as much as 40 years right so in just 50 years you've gone from receiving something from seven years and it's a 10 of your life to something that's 40 years and 40 of your life i think in the next 50 years, we have to say, how much time are people going to spend in retirement?

I think it's going to be 80% of their life. I think there's a possibility people work for 10 years. And by the time they're age 30, they're retired. So one of the things that is very controversial, I believe, is this whole answer to the UBI conversation. So universal basic income is the idea that the government will pay people some, you know, some amount of money, whatever it to me. And I've always said that I think you can keep a lot of the same capitalistic principles that we know today, but where people will get quote unquote income or revenue is monetizing all the data they create. So if I'm sitting and you're talking about earlier, if I'm using a internet service, they could be paying me to give them my personal data or just my user data, right?

What am I actually looking at? What ads did I see? What did I click on? When it comes to personal health data right so literally what's my blood pressure every day how many steps did i take today right what did i eat did my insulin go up do not like there's plenty of people who want that information uh your dna information right you can just go down a line there's a lot of data that you create every day we don't think of that as quote valuable right in terms of i can go sell it somewhere because there's no physical marketplace to like show up and be like hey download my phone and give me money but i do think that there's going to be these virtual marketplaces that companies will build where you will get paid for that data and actually you'll

probably get paid a lot of money yeah that's right and you know it and by implication it's creating two classes of people who are uh sort of providing information and the other people pay for it so you know there'll be a narrow group of people that actually could be quite highly paid because their influence or their archetype or their genetics are quite attractive um makes perfect sense i mean if people don't believe it think about like dollar shave club i mean you know shaving takes what five minutes or something a day and and that's a billion dollar business you know it's pretty crazy yeah we have 24 hours a day to monetize so absolutely um before we uh we wrap up any um at that intersection of automation and crypto any kind of big uh big guesses as to things

that are coming that maybe people aren't thinking about uh well you know again i think what our team's been working on is looking for ideas where there are really fast blockchains you know so i think bitcoin already occupies uh a vector that is going to be tough to challenge i mean look you know after 10 years you know nothing has replaced bitcoin and bitcoin's bitcoin nothing's even close nothing close exactly like when you and i love and we watch television they don't even know another word other than like they don't even think that there's other assets yeah right in terms of the conversation if you're just watching you didn't know anything like well there's bitcoin and then there's like all these other industries exactly and and you know it's a myth when people think

internet 2.0 companies came way after internet 1.0 you know amazon and its competitors like you know bookstore.com or facebook and myspace or yahoo and google they were all founded within 12 months of each other you know it's uh so bitcoin likely doesn't have a competitor but you know iot is i think a huge huge use case for blockchains and and you know sort of digital network effects and you know we're looking at projects like iota's one and there's there's and many others. But look, I think it's a lot of opportunity in crypto, but Bitcoin is Bitcoin. Absolutely. Before I let you go, I ask every guest about aliens, believer, non-believer? I'm a believer. Why? Well, one, I think that this is a huge universe. And I'm not surprised that

there would be other civilizations, even anybody who's biblical, will know that even in the Old testament they were non-humans you know on earth but secondly my brother we grew up in michigan he swears he's seen a ufo i didn't witness it so not you just it but i trust my brother i don't think he was trying to bamboozle me all right i thought you were going to tell me you met an alien oh no that was going to be a big if i have an alien and he was telling me the future i wouldn't tell you guys okay i'd just be trading it for a fortune all right so we are not going to see you go in a storm area 51 with all these no no listen i really appreciate it i'm a huge fan of uh of the research everything you guys are doing so thanks so much thanks to come on and talk about this

stuff yeah well it's fun let's do it again hey everyone pop here if you like this episode of off the chain and want to help us take crypto to the top of the apple spotify and other podcast charts please do us a favor and rate review and subscribe to review simply go to the off the chain homepage scroll down until you see the five blank stars taking 15 seconds to fill those stars in and leave a quick review goes a long way in helping us take the entire crypto ecosystem to the top of the charts i appreciate you listening and see you next time on off the chain