The Pomp Podcast - Why Coinbase Thinks Bitcoin Will Replace Your Bank | Max Branzburg

Episode Date: October 27, 2025

Max Branzburg is the Head of Consumer Product at Coinbase, one of the most important companies in the crypto ecosystem. In this episode, we dive into how Coinbase is building the future of finance — from expanding bitcoin access to launching innovative products that bridge crypto and traditional markets. Max breaks down what’s driving Coinbase’s rapid product development, how they’re scaling to millions of users, and why the next wave of financial innovation will come from within crypto.======================Check out my NEW show for daily bite-sized breakdowns of the biggest stories in finance, technology, and politics: ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠http://pompdesk.com/⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠======================As markets shift, headlines break, and interest rates swing, one thing stays true — opportunity is everywhere. At Arch Public, we help you do more than just buy and hold. Yes, our dynamic accumulation algorithms are built for long-term investors… but where we really shine? Our arbitrage algos — designed to farm volatility and turbocharge your core positions. The best part of Arch Public’s products is they are free! Yes, you heard that right, try Arch Public for free! Take advantage of wild moves in assets like $SOL, $SUI, and $DOGE, and use them to stack more Bitcoin — completely hands-free. Arch Public is already a preferred partner with Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, and Robinhood, and our team is here to help you build smarter in any market. Visit Arch Public today, at ⁠https://www.archpublic.com⁠, your portfolio will thank you.======================Bitizenship helps Bitcoin-forward investors gain EU residency and a path to Portuguese citizenship in five years while maintaining exposure to Bitcoin. Their regulated fund qualifies you for the Golden Visa through an operating company focused on Bitcoin-native innovation. Book a free strategy call at https://bitizenship.com/pomp.======================Timestamps: 0:00 - Intro1:59 – Coinbase product expansion & credit card launch4:47 - Thinking through staking, DeFi lending, & on-chain integration10:06 - How to borrow against Bitcoin11:44 - Any potential risks?15:45 - USDC rewards & yield17:32 – Tokenization & real-world assets24:51 – The “Everything Exchange” vision26:53 - What are some challenges?28:28 – Future of crypto & finance merging

What's up everyone? This is Anthony Pompliano. Many of you know me as Pomp. You're listening to the Pomp Podcast, which is my effort to find the most interesting people in the world and sit with them for hours while I ask questions in an effort to learn. So it would mean the world to me if you would subscribe to the show on your favorite audio platform, watch episodes on YouTube, and tell your friends and family about the podcast. My goal is to help millions learn from the world's most interesting people. So let's get into today's episode. Anthony Pompliano runs Pomp Investments. All views of him and the guests on his podcast are solely their opinions and do not reflect the opinions of Pomp Investments. You should not treat

any opinion expressed by Pomp or his guests as a specific inducement to make a particular investment or follow a particular strategy, but only as an expression of his personal opinion. This podcast is for informational purposes only. When you think about the future of Coinbase, you should think about the future of financial services and the place that you're going to do all of your financial activity, whether it's crypto or not crypto, that will be under the hood, I think. And you'll get the services that you expect from any sort of financial platform. So you'll be able to trade crypto. You'll be able to trade stocks. You'll be able to trade prediction markets. It will be powered by crypto under the hood because that will be more efficient and better for you. So

where Coinbase has this amazing advantage is. What's going on, guys? Today, we've got a very special treat. We have Max Bransberg. He is the head of consumer business products at Coinbase, and he is going to give us a deep dive into one of the most important companies in the Bitcoin and crypto industry. Coinbase has a massive user base. They have been incredibly important to getting people access to Bitcoin and other assets in this industry, and they are shipping so many products so quickly. So I sat down with Max and I just asked him, what are you guys doing? Why are you doing it? How is this going to work? And what is going to change about finance? I was blown away in this conversation, not only about the ambition of Coinbase, but also how they're going about it.

Here's my conversation with Max Bransberg. All right, Max, I thought a great place to start the conversation is Coinbase is releasing all of these products just fast and furious across very different aspects of the crypto industry. You know, I've talked to Brian, the CEO on the podcast before. I've talked to many people at Coinbase. You're in charge of a lot of these products and figuring out, you know, what's being released, how are they being built, what's the market positioning. And so I figured we could just have a very frank conversation about each one of the products. And let's just kind of quickly go through, why are you guys building it? How does this impact the industry? And people who are watching or listening to this, what should

they take away from you guys kind of going hard in each one of these groups? The first one I want to start with is maybe the latest one you guys have announced, which is the credit card. You guys are launching this credit card that gives back Bitcoin or crypto rewards. Talk a little bit as to like why this area is so interesting to you. What are the customers and why do you guys think the product has got some scale to it? Yeah. So we just launched the Coinbase One credit card to general availability this week. Now, anyone in the U.S. can sign up for it. It's an American Express powered credit card that offers up to 4% Bitcoin back every time you spend every category. Why are we doing this? Coinbase is becoming the place for people to manage all of

their wealth and use as a platform for all of their financial services. We believe that we can offer more powerful, more rewarding financial services powered by crypto than anything else in the market and that people deserve to have access to the best possible financial services. So the credit card has been a really cool launch so far. It's powered more than $100 million in spend. People who are using the credit card are bringing more assets on the platform, more than $200 million of incremental assets have come on the platform, which is just showing that the credit card is a part of the bundle that enables people not only to invest and trade in assets, but also to use them in their everyday life. And that spins a really powerful flywheel where people can see

Coinbase and can see crypto as more than just a speculative asset, but as an asset that they can really invest in for the long term. And particularly with the Bitcoin rewards back, instead of points or something that depreciates over time, you know, people are sick of credit cards that have depreciating points. You never use your miles. You can't find a flight that actually makes sense. You get Bitcoin, which is the best performing asset of the last decade every time you swipe your card. So that's been a really powerful value proposition, both for existing crypto users

and for new people who are just starting to think about getting into the space. You don't need to make some kind of big upfront investment. You just swipe your card. You can start building your Bitcoin investment portfolio. And that's a great way to get started in this space. It's something you're already doing, right? It makes complete sense.

And you don't have to get me started on the scam of the credit card reward points. I always joke that whether it's credit card rewards, some sort of airline rewards, you somehow always have $1,200 worth of rewards. Like that is the cap somehow. You know, they're constantly messing with that stuff. Let's talk about staking.

I know you guys have made a big push there. There's obviously this recent staking ban that's been lifted in New York. How are you guys thinking about that as an offering? Yeah, staking is another way that people are just getting more out of their money on Coinbase. I mean, it's a way to grow your wealth. It's a really powerful feature

and a way to participate in the crypto ecosystem. So we offer staking on a number of different assets on the platform. you can earn up to 15% staking on the platform. But there have been a number of states that have banned staking. New York was one of them. There are still several others. It's great to see New York really engaging and participating and now supporting staking. So New Yorkers can stake on Coinbase now, which is a great, great development. People are loving it. We've seen great adoption even since we opened it up in New York. Now there's four more states still where staking is

banned. And we estimate that over $130 million of rewards have been prohibited by those states, money that people could be earning by staking their assets, their own money, the things that they want to do with it. And those states have still banned it. So we still have more work ahead of us to get states to really understand that this is a core technology that powers the decentralized ecosystem. People want to participate in it. Businesses want to participate in it. And I think New York's doing a great job of leading the way and saying, look, we want to support this also. We want New Yorkers to benefit from this great technology and these great capabilities. So we're still hard at work to do that. I think that our customers are shouting from the rooftops

to get their states to open it up. And we're engaging, obviously. Coinbase has been very much at the forefront of a lot of the policy engagement over the last several years in really protecting and fighting for crypto and good regulations in the US and across many states. So we'll continue doing that and hopefully can lift the bans in the next four states soon too. Now, another area of these products that seems to be very hot and has now gotten a lot of liquidity and adoption across the industry is lending. Explain what you guys are doing on that front. Yeah. So we recently launched a product that's DeFi powered lending. So inside the Coinbase app, you can lend your USDC into Morpho powered vaults on base. Morpho is a borrowing and lending

protocol on base, you can lend that USDC into that Morpho powered vault and earn about 8% back on your USDC. This is a pretty powerful product. It feels as simple and smooth as just holding USDC on the platform. You don't have to worry about kind of finding the counterparties or any of that. That's all handled by the protocol. And what you're seeing here is what I think of as the DeFi mullet. It's kind of the easy Coinbase experience in the front, DeFi in the back. And the power of that is we've seen all this innovation in DeFi over the years, over many years, amazing new products that are being built for borrowing and lending, trading, insurance protocols, all kinds of things. And those have not been exposed to the everyday retail customer.

They're either too complicated and you have to move assets into a self-custodial wallet, whatever the factor is. And so we see that obviously being out on the vanguard of what's happening in crypto, we see all of this amazing innovation in DeFi, but we also see the barriers to distribution and adoption by mass market retail. So what we're doing with this DeFi lending product is enabling mass market retail customers to allocate their assets into DeFi and get the great benefits of that product with the trust and ease of use of Coinbase. So we've seen more than $300 million already lent through this product, which just launched, I think, less than a month ago. And so there's really strong adoption, clear demand for users to engage with these

types of protocols. You get global open permissionless lending that enables just better products, faster, easier to use. And so we're really excited about that. I think we're starting with USDC. I could see us expanding these types of earning capabilities to other assets and other protocols in the future as well. You mentioned this DeFi mullet. I never heard that before. Is that like a official Coinbase strategy is let's go build the DeFi for a bunch of products? Yeah, I think, you know, Coinbase is increasingly moving on chain in general, the main Coinbase app. And you might not see it or feel it because a lot of it's happening under the hood and behind the scenes. So we now have on chain powered trading, our DEX trading product.

We have lending that we just talked about and borrowing that are all powered by DeFi under the hood. And the strategy here is the DeFi mullet. It's enabling the power of DeFi under the hood with the trust and the ease of use of the Coinbase experience. So take trading, for example. We've integrated decentralized exchanges under the hood on base that you would never know necessarily that you're interacting with a decentralized exchange, except that you suddenly have access to trade tens of thousands of assets in the Coinbase app in the same way

you would be trading assets that are listed on a centralized exchange. And that is just an incredible capability for people that previously had to send assets to a self-custodial wallet, find a decentralized exchange to trade on, hope that you're not getting front run or, you know, hitting some sort of slippage losses that you're not comfortable with. Now it's all in the main Coinbase app as simple and easy to use as trading on a centralized exchange. Borrow is the other product where now you can borrow USDC against your Bitcoin on Coinbase. So a lot of people, you know, we have a lot of, a lot of customers are holding Bitcoin on Coinbase, safest, most trusted place to hold Bitcoin, but you can't really do anything with it. You don't get any value out of it.

Now we've got this borrow product where you can borrow USDC against your Bitcoin. Again, this is powered by Morpho under the hood. So you can borrow USDC at five, six, 7% APY, which is a quite a competitive rate relative to what you might get anywhere else powered by that same underlying protocol. So this is indeed a theme that I think you'll see more and more. We see the power of what's being built in DeFi and on-chain. We want to deliver that to retail customers in a way that's safe and trusted and easy to access from the main Coinbase app.

Today's episode is brought to you by Archpublic. As markets shift, headlines break, and interest rates swing, one thing stays true. Opportunity is everywhere. At Archpublic, they help you do more than just buy and hold. Yes, their dynamic accumulation algorithms are built for long-term investors. But where they really shine? They're arbitrage algos designed to farm volatility and turbocharge your core positions. The best part of ArchPublic's products is they're free.

Yeah, you heard that right. Try ArchPublic for free. Take advantage of wild moves and assets like Solana, Sui, and Doge, and use them to stack more Bitcoin completely hands-free. ArchPublic is already a preferred partner with Coinbase, Kraken, Gemini, and Robinhood, and their team is here to help you build smarter in any market. Visit ArchPublic today at archpublic.com and your portfolio will thank you. Now, what are the risks for a user as they're coming in, right?

You've got kind of this DeFi backend. I think there's a lot of people who would point and say, well, actually, DeFi may be more resilient, may be stronger, maybe better than centralized services. But obviously, there's trade-offs, right? So how do you guys think about, you know, what are the things that are being introduced or the potential risks that users are being exposed to when you start to use some of the decentralized backends versus let's say the Coinbase centralized infrastructure

I think people know, trust, and come to you guys for in past years? Yeah, I think the truth is DeFi is incredibly resilient and there's been a lot of technology and a lot of investment in making DeFi and on-chain protocols work better over the years. So it hasn't happened overnight, but if you asked me four or five years ago,

I probably wouldn't have said that. I don't think the DeFi was ready necessarily for this sort of mass market adoption. It was too slow. It was too expensive. It was just nascent. There wasn't enough liquidity in the space. Now, you know, with with layer two chains like base, for example, that are fat, really fast and cheap with stable coins that are trustworthy with the protocols that have been

developed like Morpho, it is really quite resilient and a really strong platform. So the way that we think about it for Coinbase is we want to be the platform that makes these things available to retail customers. We also want to provide all of the education and context so that people can make good decisions for themselves. And we don't want to be the arbiters necessarily of what our users do. We do want to make it accessible. So when we see people, for example, sending assets on chain to self-custodial wallets and trying to navigate that space on their own, that is quite risky for a lot of our customers who don't know exactly how to navigate that. If we can reduce that step, if we can make it simpler and easier to access the

things people already want to access, we think we're taking risk out of the system and creating a much better experience for our users. And we see that in the metrics. We see more dollars flowing into the space. We see protocol developers that are coming into the space and building more protocols and more apps because they can access our retail users. So we want to continue spinning that flywheel. And we think that will actually help the space progress even further. Yeah, it's interesting. It's basically by using a familiar interface and using all of the product design stuff that you guys have perfected over time, what you're really saying is, hey, the pipes, the infrastructure is valuable, but maybe the interfaces are actually very confusing. It's very difficult. Everyone's got the experience of moving assets in this industry, and all of a sudden, your heart starts to pump a little bit more, right? You're like, hey, am I going to mess this up? Am I going to click on the wrong link? Am I going to make some sort of mistake? And so by putting that centralized interface, that familiar interface in front of them, it's an interesting way to look at actually risk reduction instead of having them go and seek this stuff out themselves. And having a single balance.

So, you know, one of the things that I have been frustrated about in crypto for a very long time is how many different wallets I have. You know, I've had I've had 50, 100 different wallets probably that are doing different things in different places. And managing that can be really challenging. And, you know, one of the really powerful things about the Coinbase app and the DeFi mullet that we're bringing into the Coinbase app is it's all one balance. Out of your single balance, you can spend with your credit card and earn your Bitcoin rewards back directly into that balance. Then you can borrow against that Bitcoin in the same balance, get your USDC, which you

can earn up to 4% rewards on directly in that same balance, lend it into DeFi all in the same place. You don't have to worry about transferring it around, managing seed phrases, any of that complexity. And so that's the thing that we see our customers really valuing. And we think it's also the thing that can propel DeFi and all these on-chain protocols to real mainstream adoption, to hundreds of millions of people, to trillions of dollars of assets that are coming into this space. And we're seeing some good green shoots of that. We have a lot of work to do, but it's been really promising so far.

It's fascinating. Let's talk about USDC rewards. So obviously, there was this whole thing about interest being paid on stable coins. Rewards are something that's very attractive to users. I really saw a video that was going viral online of the Banker Association being very upset that crypto may compete with their like 0.03% interest paid in a deposit account in the legacy system. What's going on with the rewards? How do you guys think about designing that? And what are you seeing that evolve over time?

Yeah, we just want to provide the best possible experience to customers. I mean, it's really as simple as that. like people um people are holding us dollars should be able to earn rewards on the us dollars that they're holding we pay rewards on on usdc that's held on the platform we pay four percent um it's a great product it's it's more than 10 times uh what people can get in other places and and we see that customers love it so you know i think that there's um when there's something as disruptive as stable coins and as crypto there's always going to be incumbents that want to push back on it that want to protect their businesses that want to protect protect sort of traditional

models and uh this is a very natural moment i think we've seen this over the course of crypto and this is just another moment there i think ultimately you know the the customer benefit and the value proposition will prevail and we will be able to continue supporting customers but that's the thing that coinbase really fights for and i think if you look at the last couple of years. One of the things I've been inspired by that Coinbase has done, and I think Brian Armstrong has really led the charge here, is just fight for what's right for crypto and for the whole ecosystem and for users of crypto. And I think that, you know, USDC Rewards is a good example of that, where we'll continue to fight to ensure that our customers get the best possible

experience out of that. Makes sense to me. Let's talk about tokenization. Obviously, that's a very hot topic right now. You see everyone from kind of the legacy brokerage firms, to the big financial institutions, to maybe people who are like more fintech brokerages. Obviously, Coinbase is making a big play here. How are you guys thinking about tokenization? Where will it happen? And how do you think that experience changes for the customer? Well, it's funny that you asked that right after talking about stablecoins, because I think stablecoins are the first example of tokenization of real world assets. People say, when is it going to happen? When are we going to tokenize real world assets? $250 billion of real world

assets are being used as stable coins every day. And so we've tokenized the dollar already. We can see the value of that. I remember back in 2018 when Coinbase was launching USDC with Circle, and a lot of people said, what's the value of this? We've already got dollars. You can move it with wire transfers, all these things. And what turned out to be the case is that having a tokenized dollar was incredibly valuable because it was more efficient. It was always on 24-7. it was global, more people could hold it, and it was interoperable with the whole ecosystem in a way that I think a lot of people didn't anticipate back then. Now, of course, we've seen the value of stable coins and even gotten to a place where they're being written into law, which is amazing

progress. I think tokenization will hit every other asset class beyond dollars as well. And I think one of the next areas that's really exciting, I think, is equities and both public equities and private equities, which are all built on top of sort of legacy infrastructure that has a lot of constraints and complexity to it in terms of trading hours, in terms of access in different countries, in terms of settlement times. There's all kinds of challenges with that, that I think as these things come on chain and become tokenized, just get a whole lot more efficient for the whole ecosystem. And so, you know, if you think about equities, for example, if 3% of the equities market gets tokenized, that doubles the size of crypto, just 3%.

And so I think you'll start to see equities in the next set of assets also come on chain. And that will be a dramatic tailwind for the whole crypto ecosystem when these things can be interoperable, traded for each other, composable in things like borrow protocols. For example, imagine being able to borrow against your Tesla stock through Morpho on the Coinbase app. That kind of thing, I think, is now a reality, which maybe years ago was sort of more of a dream, but it's really happening now. So one of the things that I find very interesting about tokenization is there seems to be kind

of two different approaches happening right now. One is companies that are opting in to tokenize their own stock. So they're going to some of these tokenization platforms, whether they're a public or private company, maybe they're a fund. They say, I want to tokenize my asset. That seems to be very non-controversial and, you know, it's kind of going along. There's another world, though, where platforms are figuring out ways to tokenize the stock of companies who are not opting in, and they're kind of doing it through these SPV structures,

et cetera. Will we have both of those? Or do you think over time it has to migrate to the issuer actually being a part of it? Like, how do you see this kind of playing out? And something I'm assuming you guys are trying to figure out internally as to how do we offer tokenization if maybe the issuers aren't ready for it yet, but our customers are? Yeah, look, I think we don't know exactly how it's going to play. out long term is the truth. I think that both of those will probably play a role. So in the in the

model where, you know, assets that are already publicly available get tokenized, that's more like the like the stablecoin model, right? Dollars are already available and there's platforms that are wrapping those dollars and tokenizing them. And that's creating a bunch of value for the world and having more efficient, more accessible dollars all around the world. I think there will be a model for that in equities. I think some of the early experiments are not quite there yet. I mean, things around SPVs, derivative contracts, that type of stuff. I think there's opportunity to improve what that looks like so that the end customer is really getting access to the underlying asset and not just some sort of derivative of the thing. But there are ways to, I think,

wrap those assets and make them available to end customers. So we're certainly looking at that model. I think direct primary issuance on-chain also is going to be a major trend. There's a lot more work, I think, that needs to be done there because there's so much infrastructure around the way that capital formation happens today. And I think that that all needs to shift to a new model for capital formation in order for companies to tokenize themselves directly. So we just announced yesterday, for example, that we acquired Echo, which is a startup that's doing capital formation in crypto. And I think that that's going to be a model that drives that primary issuance and will be a really healthy kind of tailwind for the space as well.

Describe a little bit more about Echo and kind of how you guys see that fitting into the product suite. Yeah, I think, you know, crypto, like I said, if we bring in 3% of the equities market, we double the size of crypto. So as much potential as there is and as much value as there is in crypto today, I think it's still a very small portion of what's going to exist over time. And a big way to grow the pie is to create more and bring more assets on-chain and start on-chain. And so what Echo is doing, and I think what our vision is at Coinbase is to really be the platform for capital formation in the future. And the full capital formation stack from initial cap table creation to issuance to even going public is today quite antiquated. It's been the

same stack for many, many years. Most issuers are not happy with that stack and the process going out and raising capital, going public. It's incredibly painful. You ask any founder, what's the most painful part of running a business? It's raising money. It's going public. Those are the types of things that are actually inefficiencies in the process. And so we think that we can rebuild that on-chain in ways that are programmatic, more accessible, more efficient for both issuers and investors. And Echo is really leading the charge on that. It's an amazing company

that has started doing this already. And so we think that that will play a really pivotal role in helping Coinbase disrupt that whole stack and make it much more accessible for people all around the world, really. Today's episode is brought to you by Bidicenship. If you're a Bitcoiner thinking about global mobility and securing a true plan B, listen up.

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And because their team handles everything in-house, you skip the usual friction and bloated fundraising costs of other funds. So if you're serious about sovereign flexibility, now's the moment to act. Go to Bidicenship.com slash Pomp and book a free strategy call with their team. Again, that's Bidicenship.com slash Pomp. Go check them out today. Got it. That makes sense. Talk about this idea of like an everything exchange. People have probably heard of like a super app when it comes to payments and social media and all that kind of being put together.

We obviously have some examples of those in China and kind of East Asia. This idea of an everything exchange, though, I think is somewhat of a new concept and really only possible because you've got some flavor of the traditional world and some flavor of the crypto world all coming together. So what does that vision look like? Yeah, the everything exchange means everything will be tradable on Coinbase. And so we've started, of course, we have crypto assets, but increasingly it's now time that the next set of assets and everything that people want to trade comes into crypto and

becomes available on Coinbase. So that'll be equities, for example, that'll be prediction markets. Our customers want to be able to trade all these asset classes. It's too complicated today and having lots of different platforms that you have to go to to access different things. We see now the opportunity for crypto to make those different asset classes accessible in ways that are better than what they could get in other places. So equities, for example, should be available 24-7, just like Bitcoin or ETH. We're going to make that possible

for our customers on Coinbase. And so in the future, I think what you'll see with Coinbase is it'll be a platform where you can trade every asset, you can manage all of your wealth and grow your wealth in ways that are really outsized relative to what you've had access to in the past

because it can be powered by DeFi, as we were discussing, can have the power of stable coins. It can have 24-7 trading and instant settlement. All of those features are coming to the Everything Exchange. And once it does, I think that Coinbase will really become the primary financial account that a lot of people are using because it's powered by crypto. It brings all the asset classes together in one place, and it has that safe and trusted experience that Coinbase is known for. So that's the vision I'm very excited about. There's a lot of work to do, but I think it'll be really powerful when we get

there. What are the biggest challenges for you guys to accomplish this? Obviously, you guys have done a great job so far, built a very large company, you know, I don't know, 100 plus million users or whatever you guys have at this point. But, you know, it's hard, right? I mean, you're still building every day. I see, you know, Brian tweeting, I see, you know, many people at Coinbase, I talked to that they're working hard and long hours. So what are the things that are those issues or challenges? You know, that's it. It's just it's a massive vision. There's a lot of work to be done. The company is working incredibly hard. I think one of the one of the interesting things is so much of this is just uncharted territory and building an entirely new platform

for all of these asset classes. We need to continue to work with the whole ecosystem to bring these assets on chain, to make them accessible to users everywhere, to work with regulators, to help them understand. I mean, so much of the challenge on the regulatory front is just education. And once people really understand what we're doing and the value that we're creating for the economy and for users, they're so supportive and excited about the work. So a lot of it is education, just building the foundations and the platform. And it's really where Coinbase thrives, frankly. It's building the right thing, staying focused for the long term, not getting distracted by the short-term swings in the market. Those are the things that Coinbase

does really well. And so we just have to stay focused on that. And if we do that, I think we're going to build a platform that is really an end of one that can enable people to manage all their assets in one place, get much more value out of it, be more rewarding, cheaper, faster, better to use than anything that they've had before. Can I ask a weird question, which is I keep hearing people talk about crypto and then they talk about like the traditional finance world. And one of the things I've started to tell people is actually five or 10 years, maybe I'm off, maybe it's 20 years, whatever. At some point, crypto is not going to exist. It's just going to be finance, right? And we've seen this before, like it used to be internet finance, right? Or

internet company, now it's just company, now it's just finance. Same thing seems to be happening here. And so what I find fascinating is if I can maybe come up with a comparison between, let's take a Robinhood, which is really like a fintech brokerage is where they started. And Coinbase, which started as a crypto exchange, it feels like you both meet in the middle and have a lot of similar products and offerings and things like that. And like, that is the frontier. And that's where the competition is from like a product innovation standpoint. Does that feel right to you? Or do you guys have some other view as to, you know, the FinTechs and the legacy system institutions? Like, do you guys all meet in the middle and it's just finance or is there

some other way for us that we should be thinking about it? I think that crypto is probably broader than just finance. I think that it definitely is an enabler for, I think, the full set of financial services. And so when you think about the future of Coinbase, you should think about the future of financial services and the place that you're going to do all of your financial activity, whether it's crypto or not crypto, that will be under the hood, I think. And you'll get the services that you expect from any sort of financial platform. So you'll be able to trade crypto. You'll be able to trade stocks. You'll be able to trade prediction markets. It will be powered by crypto under the hood because that will be more efficient and better for you. So

So where Coinbase has this amazing advantage is over a decade of experience in building that infrastructure, figuring out how to do it as efficiently, as safely, as trusted as possible. And now we can apply that to all of the asset classes that you want to be able to trade and all the financial services that you want. So I think that's definitely the vision where the technology, I think, will kind of fade into the background in a way if we're successful. It's probably taken longer, frankly, than I had hoped for that to happen.

but I think we're getting closer. Now, I think that same technology can power a whole lot of other things beyond financial services also. And one of the places I'm excited about Coinbase's diversified experience in kind of serving different segments with a lot of different products where we could see social media getting disrupted by crypto and having decentralized social. We can see identity getting disrupted and people really owning their own identity and social graph. And so I think there's a lot more beyond that. The core Coinbase platform is going to become, I think, your primary financial account and that crypto will fade in the background.

But we've got other products and other investments that I think will hopefully enable a lot of other services even beyond financial as well. That makes sense. Is there anything that we should be expecting from you guys? Anything that you can tell us that maybe people are not aware of that's kind of coming down the pipe? You know, the big thing that we're focused on

is really just enabling people to store and manage all their assets, grow their wealth on Coinbase. I think one of the big things that has been a misconception of Coinbase in the past is it's a place to just buy Bitcoin and store your Bitcoin and that's it. And it is certainly a great place to do that. But Coinbase has evolved into something that's much more than that. It's a place to store and manage all of your assets and to grow your wealth. And if you're holding Bitcoin on the platform, you can borrow against it and get a whole lot of value out of the USDC you can borrow. You can lend your USDC, you can stake, you can pay now with the Coinbase One card. And there's a lot more coming in the everything exchange. So I think the

big thing that people should take away is Coinbase is quite a sort of diversified platform for all of your financial services. And you can get a lot more out of it beyond maybe what you thought of four or five years ago. Amazing. Well, Max, thank you so much for taking time to do this. We'll do it again in the future. Thanks, Bob.