The Pomp Podcast - Will AI Make Bitcoin More Valuable Than Ever? | Jordi Visser

Episode Date: January 17, 2026

Jordi Visser is a veteran macro investor with over 30 years of market experience and the author of the VisserLabs Substack. In this conversation, we break down bitcoin’s role in a deflationary world, inflation, Fed monetary policy, and the scrutiny around Jerome Powell. We also explore how AI is reshaping productivity and healthcare, the rise of humanoid robots, and what it all means for markets—plus a few laughs along the way.=======================BitcoinIRA: Buy, sell, and swap 80+ cryptocurrencies in your retirement account. Take 3 minutes to open your account & get connected to a team of IRA specialists that will guide you through every step of the process. Go to https://bitcoinira.com/pomp/ to earn up to $1,000 in rewards.=======================Simple Mining makes Bitcoin mining simple and accessible for everyone. We offer a premium white glove hosting service, helping you maximize the profitability of Bitcoin mining. For more information on Simple Mining or to get started mining Bitcoin, visit https://www.simplemining.io/=======================0:00 - Intro1:01 – Are young people into bitcoin?6:58 - Deflation vs inflation (what it means for bitcoin)16:11 - AI agents & stablecoins: “what is money?”21:12 - Bitcoin price levels & Jordi’s approach23:39 – Powell investigation (does it matter?)27:31 - Does GDP still matter?32:46 – Tesla & humanoid robots (how big is this?)39:05 – “Body Guard Circle” - security automation 43:07 – Humanoids reading humans (future risks)47:10 – Jordi’s content & Miami live show

This episode is brought to you by Accenture. When your advertising operations fall out of sync, everything else follows. Spotify and Accenture are working together to reinvent the rhythm of ad sales. Using automation, analytics, and smarter workflows to simplify campaign delivery and access better data across the business. The result? Less time spent on operations, more time connecting brands with the moments and fandoms that matter most. Learn more at Accenture.com slash Spotify. I want to be investing in scarcity. I do not want to be investing in things that are abundant that you don't need. I don't. And abundance comes into if it's something physical like a house,

can a humanoid be used in 10 years to build a house at a cheaper price than it is today? Absolutely. 100%. Everyone needs to think about them. The only thing that I can come up with that right now, like Bitcoin has been chosen by hundreds of millions of people around the world, that it is something I believe in to place my money as store of values, the digital economy. What's going on, guys? Today, we got a great conversation with Jordy Visser. In this conversation, we talk about Bitcoin, Bitcoin's price, deflation, inflation, Fed monetary policy, Jerome Powell being investigated. What's going on in AI, ChatGPT Health? What's going on with all of the humanoid robots, Tesla and much more?

This conversation, as always, is unique insights that you're not going to find anywhere else. Jordy's got a lot of good ideas. We have some laughs and we even talk about some of the words that we don't really pronounce that well, that you guys keep giving us a hard time about. All in good fun. And here's my conversation with Jordy Visser. All right, Jordy, I thought a great place to start the conversation.

You and I were texting this week and I had a conversation where I said, I don't know a lot of 18 year olds who are into Bitcoin. And I think young people that are not millennials, so kind of, I don't know, Gen Z, Gen Alpha, whatever they're called, may not be as into Bitcoin as people thought they were going to be.

You disagree though. And so I said to you, well, we got to talk about this on the podcast because I love when we disagree because I get to learn hopefully you get to learn and so does the audience so uh maybe what are your points of disagreement and why do you think maybe the younger people are into bitcoin all right so let let's um let's give a little bit of background so i you know we you and i are we're of the people now

like they're reaching out all the time um and someone reached out and said they heard you and jeff talking about uh young people and if i agreed and i said i didn't hear it but no i don't agree Now, here's what I'll agree with. My son, when he was 13, he's now 20. So this was a while ago. He already said Bitcoin is for old people when he was 13. So I'm not going to differ with you. Damn, I thought I was a young buck. So there's two things about this. This is not new news. It's not sexy enough. The gambling generation they want stuff that can triple in an hour 10 time they're not looking for bitcoin that does sound pretty good by the way it does yeah and he was the king of pump and dump like he was

all involved like he he was looking for these he was in reddit all day long as a 13 year old i've given his story many times so i don't disagree with jordan's really uh training the next generation of buffets over there uh he was training me he's he gave me into by the way you know this but a lot people in the audience don't know this. For those that don't know, Buffett, who recently stepped down, started his career handicapping horses, right? And he had actually a publication where he would hand out the odds for horses. So maybe there's a little bit of gambling to greatest investor of all time lineage there. Yeah. And again, my son has been trained in handicapping the same way I was trained in handicapping by my father. It's a great way to go, especially when

it comes to markets, even crypto. Here's the thing I want to make sure, because the thing that was addressed to me is this was a bearish case on Bitcoin. First of all, I don't know if you know, 18 year olds don't control a lot of money. Yep. So they don't drive things. That's why they hang out in the crypto tokens that are just starting. Love the memes. $1,000 can become 5 million real quick if they get it right. Yeah. So this is not a story to me that matters. Now, another thing for 18 year olds, I don't think store of value is part of their mentality until maybe they have their first child, they have their first job, and they actually have money that wasn't given to them, but they actually are making money and they're scared of losing it. So for me, when you get up

into your 30s, okay, that's a different story. So those are young people to me. Second thing is for people looking for reasons on Bitcoin, I say it all the time. This is an AI story. I don't care what anyone says. You've been in this thing a long time. I got involved because it solved a macro problem for me that I believed in exponential innovation. That's not the reason that people in Bitcoin kind of started. I believed in this because of my time in Brazil and the distribution of wealth problem. Rick Edelman, you had him on, right? Yeah, yeah, I know. Okay. So has his story been amplified in the last week? Have we not had major advancements in terms of OpenAI health, ChatGPT health? OpenAI health and ChatGPT or OpenAI for healthcare is different than

chat gpt health i'm sure we'll talk somewhat about that um i just think when the demographics play out the people that matter the most are if older people extend their lives by a little bit and they have no ownership in bitcoin and if the disruption from ai happens that matters a lot 18 year olds not wanting to be income it doesn't and i was so excited to like disagree really violently you know maybe we could like yell and scream so basically what you're saying if i summarize this is uh 18 year olds today don't care because they don't really have the problem that bitcoin solves but as they get older, they will have the problem. And therefore you think that they'll go and they'll care. Michael Saylor said it. You don't find Bitcoin. Bitcoin finds you. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. I do agree with that. So I guess the question is maybe that if you had to pick a scary part of the 18 year old not caring about Bitcoin is we don't know for another 12 years or so whether they're going to care about Bitcoin until they hit the point where they're going to need it. Right. And so I think people have the belief that yes, they will care, but we don't get confirmation until that cohort kind of hits the right age group. Yeah. The other problem is to say that 18 year olds don't care now sounds like very much a depressed sentiment thing. I mean, Bitcoin's unchanged from December of last year. It's like the only asset in the world that didn't work last year. That's kind of sounds like a story like, yeah, I don't think young people are

caring anymore. It's still sitting down here. Momentum drives always the way people think about something. So if Bitcoin is going up a lot at the expense of all other fiat assets and kids are being handed these assets that are no longer moving. Yep. So far this year, and I will remind people, this is my big theme for when it plays out. You better be long Bitcoin when this happens. Mag seven are down one and a half percent this year. The rest of the world's stock markets are all up, including the U.S. and Bitcoin's outperforming the mag seven by 10 percent so far in two weeks. When this works, it will be because of the statement I've heard repeatedly. Well, why would I be long Bitcoin? It's just the beta trade of the Q's or of the mag seven.

It's not. Eventually what happens is these companies get cannibalized by AI and there's no moats. And when people realize there's no moats around the biggest coding companies in the world or the digital economy companies, which is what is happening right now, in my opinion, you want to be long the thing that actually doesn't, it's moat is belief. And I think it's to store value. All right. So we're going to go deep down this rabbit hole because I'm actively thinking about what are some of the risks to Bitcoin and why has it done what it's done? And some of it is retroactive. I want to kind of do an after action review and understand what happened, but also think about it going forward. Bitcoin, a huge part of the story, as you

mentioned, is store of value. And I think that there is a belief, you know, Lindahl has this great line, nothing stops this train. They're going to keep printing money, all this kind of stuff. And I would be a full-fledged, I think they call it Bible-thumping believer of that story, right? But I heard Elon Musk on the Moonshots podcast say something that I literally had to rewind and listen to about three times and be like, oh man, this guy's not going to, you know, he's going to haunt me in my sleep, which was, he basically made the point, he keeps using this term supersonic tsunami that's coming. Okay, got it. But he said, he thinks actually there's a chance that we're going to be begging the fed and the government to print more money and print it

faster because he believes that there is going to be so much deflation that actually the money printing stuff is not only not going to be a problem but he thinks that like we're going to be like hey you need to stimulate here that sounds crazy compared to what people have been talking about for the last decade you know kind of post global financial crisis except for trufflation as of Friday, 1.55%. So you get the government who's saying it's 2.7. Truflation is now at 1.55. It went from three in December of 24

down to below two in April. It then went back up to kind of high twos in Q3, Q4 of 2025. And we are now back down to 1.55%. What I think, the more I've thought about it, is what if deflation actually is the bigger risk and i've got some tweets from about a year ago where i was talking about hey this is potential true inflation at 1.55 it's kind of messing with me a little bit how do you think about that and if bitcoin's entire store of value and you know

a hedge against inflation and all this stuff well if we have deflation if we have low inflation does that mean bitcoin becomes less appealing people don't want to hold it because they're not worried about inflation anymore so i i have a very um different take on this whole thing including um very seldom what i'd say i disagree with lynn alton um and other people that show these these great liquidity charts combined with markets so the fractional reserve banking system is predicated on this belief that you can lever up the money so if you just go around and like figure out what the hard currency is, or even what the base money is. And then you combine that to the fiat assets. So at the end of the day, you have two arguments for what's going to drive

Bitcoin. Number one is you could take money supply. Okay, number two is you could take the total sum of the assets, which are not money supply. They're a levered number of money supply. So here's deflation to me is going to happen. So I believe in the Elon Musk. And for everyone who has reached out to me, I want to explain something right now. This is, this is new news. Okay. I always call him Elon. Now let me explain for everyone out there who's given me crap. I consider myself a, a, a borderline intelligent person. Like I think I'm, I'm, I'm ability to like think I say Elon a lot, not because I don't know his name is Elon. It's because someone worked for me when I was 29 years old in Brazil named Ilan.

And I've said his name a billion times. If he's watching right now, which he probably is, he's laughing because he's from Rio. So that's the reason why. So if it makes you feel better, you know what word these amazing savages on the internet come at me for? Is I say nuclear.

People always be like, it's said on my, I know, I know. Sorry, I'm just talking fast. All right, go ahead. Let me continue on. Go ahead. So I actually believe. Go ahead, Ilan. The deflationary side from this is going to hurt fiat assets, but not in a, like a fast way.

Okay. That's interesting. Why? And so deflationary pressures are going to force companies to be more efficient. And you play this game of musical chairs, just like for the people for work. If every business is now is at risk of deflationary pressures, because whatever idea I have, someone just created a better one at a cheaper price. You're kind of playing a game of moving the money around all the time. What happens is you'll see a deleveraging happen or a deleveraging happening through a change. So I actually believe that what will happen is you're going to see deflation affect fiat assets. The money is going to be looking for a home on something that's still

going. What drives assets to go higher is people moving money from one to the other. This is going to be a big story this year for small cap stocks. Whenever I talk to hedge funds and allocators, like, well, small caps, well, I'm like, I think they'll be up 50, 60% this year, outperforming the S&P 500 by three or four to one. What's your major reason? There's going to be a rotation of massive dollars leaving the mag seven, looking for a home and stuff that's very sensitive to commodities, PMIs, blah, blah, blah. And this has been a short base for a long time. Sometimes assets go higher while the overall value of the fiat assets is kind of unchanged. Now, we've seen this because for the better part of 15 years post the great financial crisis, MSCI World X the U.S. did not go higher while the U.S. did.

So money was leaving those markets and it was going into the U.S. market because we had coding. I think the reverse is going to be happening in this deflationary pressure because where we're going to have deflation is in coding related things. the one thing elon musk also says is see i gotta write again for the second time um we're running into constraints in the physical world the problem is the energy sector is three percent of the s&p 500 the material sector i think is one and change maybe two combined they're five the tech sector when you take out the consumer just like amazon and stuff like this it's like 50 so maybe we'll have deflation affecting the 50 that's built on on on on code but the other 5% that's based on true supply and demand scarcity will actually go higher. We are entering

a world when he talks about abundance, you want to be long scarcity. You want to be absolutely long scarcity because abundance is a dangerous thing for code. Because basically the argument you're making is things that are abundant are not valuable usually. And the scarcity of Bitcoin, even if there's deflation, the scarcity of Bitcoin is the like black hole that sucks all this capital and it can kind of protect it in a way that it can't be protected anywhere else. One thing about Elon Musk that's very interesting, if you ask him,

and he's been asked this on Moonshots and other places, what do you think about money? He's perplexed. He's like, I don't know how money fits into the equation. And I believe money fits in from the sapiens perspective, which is we actually need transactions to happen. It's gonna take us a long time to get off of that. So even if I'm right that fiat assets

basically stop going higher and they kind of go sideways and that money starts rotating and chasing into something that has scarcity. So Bitcoin is more related now to copper, silver, gold. Everyone always thought of it that way. But I think this is now about scarcity. So I believe this is the year that abundance becomes an investable theme on the short side for the Mag7, for software companies, for all of this stuff. And the things that start to become investments are the ones that are scarce, that are very difficult to make abundant. You cannot flip a switch and make copper abundant. And he's the first person who admitted he said that in the exact same episode. Today's episode is brought to you by Bitcoin IRA. Are you a crypto

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side means that uh there's no regulatory risk right in terms of what some of these other guys are facing um but then you go to this world of like so uh the agents are getting incredibly good And, um, we can sit here and rattle off a bunch of different, uh, products that we use to use all these different agents, whatever they're going to eventually start buying things. And you see, um, I think it was Shopify and, uh, Stripe have both, um, done partnerships with Google and open AI. And I forget, you know, who, who did what and how, but they're all looking at, okay, you're going to be talking to AI model or agent, and you then are going to be purchasing things. well right now it's kind of like uh with claude code like you know keeps asking you to approve things and so there's this human in the loop kind of like uh guardrail 100 that is going to go away the guardrails are going to become not the slow lane you are going to be in the fast lane of the highway and the agent's gonna be running around the internet spending money making money doing all this stuff so then the question is what is the money and i actually think the people who are

like, oh, credit cards aren't going to matter, whatever, are not understanding consumer behavior and the infrastructure that's been set up. And, you know, it's pretty easy for the agent to remember the credit card number and just put it in and, you know, answer the thing. So to me, an agent buying something from a business is very different than an agent transacting with another agent. And that to me feels like a world where the businesses are going to have agents, the consumers are going to have agents. When we get there, that's the question I half, right, is it doesn't feel like Bitcoin is actually going to be the money used there because the switching cost between a stable coin and Bitcoin now is just the press of a button for

a consumer or the auto conversion back and forth. And so when you reduce friction between switching costs of currencies, well, why wouldn't I use the thing that is great for transactions and then just convert it into the thing that's great for store of value savings over time? So again, I've said this before. I think this concept of store of value is something people have to expand their mindset. For some reason, people here store value and they get into gold. Tokenization destroys all that. And I'll explain to you why. Let's assume you went into a coffee shop and we're now five years forward and you want to buy a coffee and you don't have any money in a yield bearing account that you could use and there's no more credit cards. So what you do is you sell a piece of your

home to buy the coffee through tokenization. You sell a piece of it, fractional part, and it's gone. And it all, all the transaction happens. So basically your entire net worth, and since you've got silver, your entire net worth is now liquid. You can sell it off and you're choosing, what do I want to have it on? Your decision is no longer, do I have cash to pay for it? Do I have to sell a money market fund to get cash to put in my bank? Cause I don't want to lose the yield. All the money you have is in something that's trying to make money. Well, that's really what a store of value is. Like you don't want to have, you want to have it constantly working for you and you want to be in an investment that's working.

well if real estate's not working for you well then you sell that money you move it into bitcoin the problem with doing that is you can't sell part of your house and move it into bitcoin so right now the world is 800 trillion dollars of net worth of of total net worth not of liquid illiquid becomes liquid that is a lot of money supply coming into the market it's a lot of ability to transact and go through so another thing elon musk says about this whole concept when he goes, I don't know what money is. He also says Bitcoin is energy and energy is the currency of the future. I just think people have to think about the fact that what he's saying is the only thing that we will always need is energy because all innovation, everything is predicated

on the energy behind it. And so I do believe that this concept of what is abundant, what is scarce for the next decade, and this is all commodities that fit in, I want to be investing in scarcity. I do not want to be investing in things that are abundant that you don't need. I don't. And abundance comes into if it's something physical like a house, can a humanoid be used in 10 years to build a house at a cheaper price than it is today? Absolutely. 100%.

So then the cost of real estate in 10 years has to come down if the cost of rebuilding it is going down. All of these things people have to think about because these are long term investments. These are not something, you know, you're not day trading houses or commercial real estate. If the cost of these things is going to change, everyone needs to think about them. The only thing that I can come up with that right now, like Bitcoin has been chosen by hundreds of millions of people around the world, that it is something I believe in to

place my money, a store of values, the digital economy. Could it lose it? Yes. But there's nothing on the horizon that says it's going to compete with. Last thing about Bitcoin. You previously said that we needed three closes above 92K. How are you thinking about price? you know bitcoin now kind of mid 90 thousands uh it feels better than when we're in the mid

you know 80 thousands uh we're still obviously below the all-time high though so what is your viewpoint for the next couple of weeks here so um uh you know as people listen to me i i'm i'm not a trader like i buy things because i think you know a year two three in the case of bitcoin ten years from now it's gonna be significantly higher and i have a very rational mindset when I think of something like Bitcoin, if I think what I wrote, which I do, which is this is the greatest investment opportunity I've ever seen. The odds on the board at the track are 100 or 1,000 to one based on what I'm hearing from other people and how few people believe in it that actually have the money. That's the way the racetrack works. Where's the money been bet?

Well, it's been bet on fiat assets, 800 trillion, 2 trillion in Bitcoin. I love those odds. Okay, great. I don't really care. In fact, I root for it to stay at low levels for another nine years and then go up. So I don't really care. But from a trading perspective, which is where I was trained, the first book I read on the markets before I got a job at Morgan Stanley, I wanted to be a master at Elliott Wave. I'm an Elliott Wave person. The short-term things, we've got moving averages crossing on the daily. We've already got, it's above the 50-day moving average. It broke a trend line that's down. We've been making higher highs and higher lows on this route. I love the way it handled the setback on the Clarity Act.

Like, I mean, Brian Armstrong came out and said, I think no bill is better than this one. And I went to go look, how much did it sell off on the barely any after a big run up? So it's acting better. The technicals look good. So for me, I've been buying a lot of it right now. I mean, I just think it's going to go up. Will I bail out of it if it breaks through certain levels on the downside?

Yeah, I think it should stay above 92,000. Now, if it got below 90 and it spent any like even 10 minutes below, I'd probably say, this isn't the bottom. We got to go lower and then we'll go through it again. I believe this year is a big year. I think the Clarity Act actually matters more than probably I realized as kind of everyone's looking for a catalyst, but I love it's doing relative to the fiat assets. And the second thing is Ethereum relative to Bitcoin. It made its lows in July. It is a beautiful looking chart. And I believe that's important because that is my signal for the network effects. And that is my signal for PMIs. Now, we also got the news last week, right after

we published. I always love when you smile before you can ask me a question. I don't know what's coming. Our boy, Jerome Powell is being investigated. Let's put aside for a second that he likely leaked the thing that he had his video ready to go. He's playing this whole morality game, et cetera. Let's put aside for a second that all of these people came out in blind support of him which probably means he did mislead congress um let's just look at the impact of his term is up yeah here in a couple of months there's an investigation i thought that there was going to be way more fallout from this whole thing we are sitting here and in the last two weeks we sent 20 dudes in the dark of night to go put a bag on maduro's head and bring them back

to new york city that might as well as happened five years ago i mean that is like completely memory hold by a lot of people on the internet last week jerome powell investigation things that would be front headlines for months you know 20 years ago yep now i jokingly said uh i'm waiting for people to start putting the greenland flag in their bios because we're going to go and support those people as you know uh the dictator of america goes and tries to acquire the land but we forgot about Powell already. Like every single day, it is just this rapid acceleration. So does the Powell thing matter or is it just complete noise and soap opera and an investor should pay zero attention to it? I don't know how many times we had to talk about this this year.

So let's use the tariff situation. When the tariffs came out and everyone was freaking out, it was legitimate for the stock market to react the way it did in the beliefs that economists were putting out there. Now, the economists were wrong. But if you remember what the economists said, what was going to happen is we were going to go into a recession and we were going to see inflation go higher. Now, that didn't happen.

But the reason that's important for people that are sitting at home, not kind of focusing, whenever news comes out, you should have two things in mind. does this change the economic picture going forward on both growth and or inflation and does it change the earnings if the news doesn't change those two which i mean venezuela is dramatic iran was dramatic oh yeah i forgot there's so much going on i didn't bring up iran i mean there's so much happening you you hit you you gave the reality which is jerome powell's lame duck they're trying to pressure him off of the board because the goal

is to get the rates slower. The rates are already moving lower. So whether we get two cuts next year or four cuts or no cuts, I don't think the market at this point is changing its view on earnings or its changes on the economy on any of this. And that's the simplest way I can put it is when news comes out, does it change? Now, if something happens on the AI side where data centers are delayed because people believe, and again, I'm going to say this is irrelevant. In fact, I got to ask questions this today because I wrote a piece last week on data centers and the whole Elon Musk power shortage thing. If there's a delay in data centers, that does not change the economy this year. If CapEx is delayed, it does not change the economy. Could the stock market

for a period of six weeks fall 15% on that? Yeah, it could. Do I think it would go right back up like it did with tariffs? Absolutely, I do, because it's not going to change the economy your earnings. It's not a big enough deal. If CapEx is not 500 billion, it's 430. It won't change the economy because this year is not about data center build-out. This is about the Blackwell rollout. It's about AI adoption. It's about the broadening out of the market into other places that are going to benefit. So that's the way that I would think about these things in terms of the news items. GDP as a metric, you think that maybe it doesn't matter as much anymore? I mean, we're popping we're supposed to get over five percent in uh q4 according to atlanta fed howard lutnick

says six percent elon says ten percent but you don't think it matters um well let me rephrase what i say it doesn't matter when did you get involved in bitcoin again what year 20 like really get involved 2016 okay so in 2013 is when i took a trip out silicon valley as a macro person stopped traveling to china so i always use this as an example of like I traveled to China every year for one month a year because it was the dominant theme for markets. In 2012, what changed for me is I went to China and I realized the government was like, whoa, Nelly, we got a big property problem. And now we got a demographic problem and everything's coming. We're going to slow the growth down. They had kind of navigated

through the great financial crisis and they were like, okay, we've spent a lot of money. now we have to do our version of what the U.S. went through. And that's been like a decade of no building, restructuring the debt. And during that decade, you heard tons of people like China's going to blow up, all's going to happen. And I just viewed it as, you know what, they're going to decelerate into a slower economy, which pretty much what they did. And the demographics would now be affecting Japan, the U.S., Europe and China. OK, well, that's GDP. I'm like, all right. So GDP doesn't matter. What's actually happening? Why is the stock market going up? How are we to break this tradition of the stock market is kind of predicated on nominal gdp growth and yet

nominal gdp gdp growth is is is really slowing and amazon stood out and i'm like how is amazon who doesn't make pe is just bought up by all these mutual funds and very smart people and they're like no you don't get it you have to look at this and this and i went i got to go out silicon valley and figure it out so i went silicon valley i saw some venture capital places I got directed to Singularity University. And that's when I realized, oh my gosh, this doesn't matter. And I wrote a paper called The Art of Unlearning. And within that paper was literally the time of whatever you think the economy is, and

there were other parts to it, but literally I included, I didn't know, I mean, tweets were new as a thing back then. The economy was now different. And the concept of how GDP was calculated as a statistic would never be relevant again. Now, if people don't believe what I'm saying, just type in Alan Greenspan, 1999, and you can go back and read papers about how he said GDP was not made for software. I don't know how we deal with this. The internet is going to blow this whole thing up.

When you get to artificial intelligence, it makes it almost useless. So Elon Musk, or not Elon Musk, the Moonshots podcast brought it up this week. And they went, yeah, we need a new measurement for it. We need to go through it. So here's the thing I'll say and answer your question. Does it matter? It does for stocks. I think it's going to matter less as stable coins actually start to impact the global economy. I'll

talk about that. But velocity of money matters a lot in transactions. And we're going to see more transactions because of AI agents. But for the economy, I just don't think whether nominal GDP is 6% or 9%, it changes the trajectory of stocks and profit margins. Profit margins were working better during the period where GDP looked to be lower because GDP was understated if you include the software benefits and the efficiency gains. So it is a random measure. We're not creating jobs with 8% nominal GDP, which is we had last quarter. And if you take two quarters combined, you're dealing with like 7% nominal GDP. We created no jobs. That's not happened. So this is about efficiency. We don't need people as much. The stock profit margins will remain

high. So you're going to have a market going higher. GDP is going to look higher than I believe it actually is, or it's finally getting to the level. But I don't think people should freak out. And I certainly don't think it's going to bring inflation the way people would worry about traditionally. Today's episode is brought to you by Simple Mining. Have you ever been interested in mining Bitcoin? As a miner myself, I've been using Simple Mining for the past few months, and the experience has been nothing short of seamless. I mine with the pool of my choice, and the Bitcoin is sent directly to my wallet. Simple Mining, which is based in Cedar Falls, Iowa, offers a premium white glove service designed for everyone from individual enthusiasts

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humanoid robots are um we also have this guy uh dave blunden who was on the moonshots uh episode and he talked about uh the gigafactories humanoids at scale are much faster than expected is it just like this is the biggest market ever that someone could go after is just replacing manual labor and whoever wins this is worth 10 trillion dollars yeah so jason calcanis is is very close good friends with elon musk so i'll leave that alone yeah you think he was just getting paid under the table he's biased for sure um and if we know anything from the all-in podcast they're biased um let's go to the other route and go to dave london and the reason he's important in this is he actually was negative on humanoids in terms of people's expectations of when they'd

roll out what he said was and i heard heard the podcast he said after visiting the gigafactory what he saw blew him away he talked about have you heard it no i did not hear this oh my gosh he he talked about the vertical integration even getting down to the level of taking old aluminum cans and turning them into teslas in front of him like they have an aluminum smelter with inside the gigafactory so he basically said elon musk has thought about everything so this was their that's this whole thing right it's just like the vertical integration of manufacturing to the part and for those that don't know uh on this point um he historically has even said can we build certain parts rather than buy them because we can be faster and cheaper in doing so

yeah and he understands that that's an issue for the united states with the supply chains And that's what most of what I would say the polarizing things on Donald Trump, even with Venezuela and Greenland, behind them is some version of an AI race with China to make sure that our supply chains are never in the situation. One of the trigger points for this was COVID and realizing that we needed to get everything from China during a crisis. And we didn't want to be in that position again. So just getting back to the story, he basically said, I now realize that Elon Musk has prepared and the robots are basically already making the robots and all that's going to happen over the next five years. Let's go. And if you haven't heard this or seen this in China, I forget. I think it was the Ford CEO who talked about driving a Xiaomi car and how blown away was.

He also took a trip over the summertime to China, and he was talking about dark factories and how he was blown away and scared to death for U.S. automakers. They already have dark factories, meaning no humans in there. So he saw this and he basically said they're going to scale much faster based on what I saw. i one loved the idea or the image in my head of delta force flying down to venezuela to go and claim ai supremacy for the united states um but on the tesla factory i think that um one of the craziest parts people like the tesla can drive to you after you buy it yep and i can't remember where i heard it but somebody was like well what happens when there's a humanoid in it And it just gets out and walks into your house.

And you start like looking, you know, thinking through this stuff, right? And then it's assembling and all this. Now, you know what I also think is pretty interesting? The same time that the Tesla factories are doing this, I don't know if you've seen down in El Salvador, this Seacott, the big prison that they built. One of the things that they are doing, which is actually a pretty interesting idea, I don't know if it'll work, is every day that the prisoner works and they're like have sewing machines and they're like making clothes. every day that they work in the uh factory they get two days off their sentence it's like a pretty you know again like is it a good idea bad idea i'm not sure but like it's it's a unique creative idea but it's a 100 human labor you know thing right because you kind of

have a monopoly on human labor if they're sitting in jail and so it does feel like the humanoid production i immediately just go to like what is the highest and best use of the humanoid robots and we know Amazon's got a lot of robotics and all that kind of stuff. But when you think about society in general, you mentioned building homes, right? You think about different manual labor jobs. It actually is a little bit difficult to try to identify,

okay, if we had 100,000 humanoid robots are ready to go today and we were simply optimizing for the greatest positive impact on the economy, regardless of any trade-offs, where do you send those 100,000, the army of 100,000 humanoids? You have any ideas or guesses?

no it's i i think this whole conversation is uh more important than people realize it for no other reason if you haven't thought about humanoids being a part of your your daily questions and then seeing them on the street we're we're closer to this and regardless of how you get through it they're going to be involved in our lives and to take out the physical labor side which we're going to need to have because demographics are going to force them i mean we're just losing more and more truck drivers and everything along those lines. So I don't want people to get scared about the job situation, but all the questions and all the things that you just went through, including, you know, it, I don't know if you've read a lot of the, the speculation or the news stories that

have come out of Venezuela in terms of how they did this, the technology that the U S seems to have, nobody knew that. I know nothing about it. Yeah. Again, you're getting into futuristic stuff. And I think the humanoid's picture fits in the same way. So no matter how you thought about the world. And this gets into the stock market as well. When you're making decisions in the stock market, have you incorporated that humanoids will be here in a very big way? Have you incorporated the fact that not just robo taxis, robo trucks, I mean, Elon Musk has massive build out of robo trucks, autonomous trucks on the road going down, how that's for transport companies, and they're buying the trucks or renting the trucks and going through it. All this stuff is happening. And so

I'll just leave it at this. Robo taxis are humanoids on wheels. It is the first entree into it. Keep that in mind, because if I'm right about Tesla this year, and it's the best performing of the big stocks over a trillion dollars, it's going to be the sign that you got to start thinking about humanoids yesterday. I have a framework for you that I've been thinking about, and I'm not yet ready to write about it, but I'll tease it here a little bit. So I call it the bodyguard circle if you think about somebody who is important and they have security historically they thought inside out so it was okay i'm important i need one bodyguard got it then they thought maybe that bodyguard should help me fortify my home with a security system

then you know it moved out from them automation is happening in reverse it's going from the perimeter to the inside so if you go and you look at some of these videos now of you know trump on the golf course or uh at any of these places they have robo dogs that are going around the property and going out you know kind of as like an advance yep they have drones that are flying ahead etc so the outer outer part of the security perimeter is now being automated yep he is not yet walking around with humanoid robots that will be kind of like the last thing yep but the automation is moving closer and closer and closer to him. And I use that as maybe a proxy for robots are going to start in the most impersonal way possible. Oh, they're over there in that other building.

You know, we know they're working, but like, I don't deal with them. And then eventually they're going to be like taking care of your kid. Right. And so like that perimeter, as it gets closer and closer to you, some of it is the technology, but as we know from history, a lot of it is just like, Are we comfortable trusting them? Are we comfortable interacting with them, right? All this kind of stuff. And so I'm fascinated by the security perimeter being automated now because we know it's better.

And people are quite literally trusting their lives and their security to automation. So if it's good enough to do that, of course, eventually it's going to cook, you know, for you or, you know, do whatever the thing is. Yeah. And so if you want to take it a step further and use some of that,

when everyone's worried about crime in the cities on the subway what if humanoids were there i've seen that movie i've seen that movie yeah you've seen that movie um i guess the main point is uh when we developed these things in here to where we overtook lions we could develop weapons humanoids are going to have eyesight that can go levels they're going to have things built into them you are back to being uh not on the top of the food chain anymore and you hope and this is the fear that people have is that these things will be more powerful than human beings they will be they'll be faster they'll be whatever you want and that's pretty much getting there very soon so if you're making decisions on there's too much crime in a city i'm leaving

Okay. In five years, it probably won't be the same. If you're voting based on what's going to happen. Okay. That matters for now, but again, have a long-term view when you're deciding where you want to be and go through it, because I don't think you can make decisions on the next 10 years based on what you think, you know, today, and to really think outside the box, which is hopefully why people come to this show. They come to my videos. I know I spend more time with people on artificial intelligence that are highly educated because my job is to talk to allocators and hedge funds and asset managers who've studied technology for years. They know all about it in the weeds. I've never seen a time where people are behind what is happening in technology more than today.

And the reason is because of how fast it's moving. So again, as you're thinking about this for investments, as you're thinking about this for how you prepare your kids for school and all of these different items, just remember things are moving extremely fast. If you listen to shows where people are talking about linear things, if they're spending an entire podcast on why Jerome Powell's subpoena will lead to the dollar collapsing. I'm telling you, it's not worth the time. You want to talk, unfortunately, about humanoids because it has more relevance to what's going to happen a year from now than what you're hearing on Jerome Powell. Can I really take you deep down my rabbit hole of thinking recently? Is it dark? You know what a mentalist is?

Yeah. And for those that don't know, one of the things that they do is they can really read body language, right? If your eye twitches, your mouth, your shoulder, whatever, they can pick up these signals and they're able to understand what you're probably thinking and come to a conclusion you know who would be excellent at doing that is a humanoid robot and so one of the things that i have uh been a little nervous about frankly is you put that humanoid robot on you know the subway platform and as it's interacting with people how far into like it can read your mind not because it has some, you know, telepathic connection or brain computer interface that it hacks or like, kind of all like the crazy security stuff, but just somebody who is really socially aware would

be able to do the same thing. But the humanoid robot has, you know, better vision, has all the machine learning, all this kind of stuff. And so the positive story there is like, it's really going to learn your preferences. It's really going to understand you. It's going to be able to do things and anticipate your needs and, you know, it'd be this great, you know, prosperous thing it's also a little freaking scary how do you think about it for yourself for your kids etc as to like we know this is going to happen are you worried are you excited or somewhere in between well let's do it for me because my kids i think they depend on me to do what i'm about to say okay uh i'm a day-by-day person i read as much as i can in fact i consume more information

One of the reasons, and I've said it here, I didn't want to work for anyone again because the friction of learning is so great inside the walls of any institution. I've, I've had the fortune of being in management meetings. Like I was in here the other day for something and I walked out and I saw you in a meeting with like nine people. I had shivers. Like it, it bothered me. It really bothered me. It's just that. It wasn't a meeting.

It was at least nine people. It was real fun. I try to stay on the day-to-day with what's happening in the news. And hopefully people come to watch my video because I think I collect news more than most people. You're in the news, you're, you're paying attention to things all the time. You don't have as much time as I do. I don't. And, and so I can, I appreciate you telling people I'm working though. You're a hard worker. You're a hustler. We, we, we work that we're, we're very similar people in many, many ways. But one of the things is I'm older than you and I don't want to be caught

in those meetings anymore. I don't mind doing Zooms. I don't mind Zooming into things and being a part of things. So the answer to the question is, the more I'm aware of what's happening today, the safer I feel. The more that other people aren't aware, I feel even safer. And the reason is because they will slow down progress at a point that it will surprise you. When change happens quickly, it's scary. Humans create friction to make sure change doesn't happen fast. What's going on with the clarity act oh the banks are really revving up the pillars of capitalism the voters of polarization they will slow everything down facts ai cannot be slowed down in progress and so it just goes faster and faster so i'm using a tool that's more

powerful every day while people are like well they i i mean i bubble no no no in one of my things i posted this week some guy disagreed with what i wrote on ai adoption and it wasn't the most articulate response but what he did say is ai is for losers and i went wow that is that is not only a genius statement that that is that is kind of where the world is if you're at there the friction will remain because people don't believe adoption is happening so we can talk about building we need that guy we need that guy on the podcast next week you're gonna have to explain this one to us literally and that's what we should do we should have an episode where we bring just like the haters and critics on and they can fire their best argument you have to defend

them. I, I, I enjoyed it. I did respond. I don't respond much in there because I'm just busy and I will. Wow. Amazing. All right. Where can we send people to, uh, to find your videos, uh, on Sunday and also, uh, the HRV stuff that you're doing? So on, on YouTube, they can, they can get everything they need to see. I will be launching a paywall to help people with both learning AI. Um, I've had a lot of sub stack. No, no, no. I'll be doing videos on the paywall that people can do. It will be, how do you convert something you hear in a podcast into actionable ideas? And along that process, it'll teach you how to use prompts, how to create prompts, how to do all these things. A lot of the building of apps, all types of stuff there. For the HRV thing, I finally launched it.

The second sub stack went up and I'm telling people if they really care about their health, I'm not a doctor. There's no things in there about what you should do. This is a journey for you with me on the success that i've had raising my heart rate variability which is vagal tone and without going through it if you just read the sub stack i posted which is open for everyone to kind of introduce it i do believe this is the metric that allows you that says whether you're happy or not on the element of surviving in this day of how fast the changes so it goes through the whole thing but i think your kids have felt anxiety my kids have felt anxiety i've had to work through that and kind of like you said how do i prep them for the future

hrv is just a measurement that people don't know a lot about the athletes think it's about how in shape they are it's not it is your evolutionary body which is built for survival the vagus nerve talks to your brain which is built for pleasure success everything that goes with pleasure those are at odds and if that is low it generally means that you're not able to recover and be resilient for the stress that's in there and the cortisol that's going up and so i wanted to give people at least my journey on how i raised it because it's extremely correlated in a negative way to aging the lower it is the worse it is i love it all right ladies and gentlemen make sure you go and subscribe to jordy's uh youtube go check out his sub stack make sure you subscribe

to this channel that'd be helpful uh and we'll see you guys next weekend what about um aren't we going to be live next weekend oh oh yeah we're going to be live in uh florida we're going to be in Miami at the Real Vision Conference on the 23rd, I think it is. I think it's the 23rd. 23rd, if I remember correctly. Whatever the Friday is, Jordy and I can come find us there.

It'd be real fun. We'd love to see you bring your questions. If you're a hater, you're invited as well. If you think AI is for losers, that'd be an interesting conversation. Yeah. But we'll see everyone next week.