The Pour Over Today - BONUS: TPO Explains Government Shutdowns | 09.16.25

Episode Date: September 16, 2025

Readers of The Pour Over pick a topic to have explained, and Jason and Kathleen have to get Joe to understand it in less than 20 minutes… This week, they’re explaining government shutdowns. Join over 1 million readers with our free newsletter ⁠here⁠ Looking to support us? You can choose to pay ⁠here⁠ Check out our sponsors! We actually use and enjoy every single one. ⁠Cru⁠ ⁠Surfshark⁠ ⁠Holy Post⁠ ⁠CCCU⁠ ⁠Upside⁠ ⁠HelloFresh⁠ ⁠Mosh⁠ ⁠LMNT⁠ ⁠Theology in the Raw⁠ ⁠Safe House Project⁠ ⁠Student Life Application Study Bible⁠ ⁠A Place For You⁠ ⁠Practicing Life Together⁠ ⁠Not Just Sunday Podcast

Are you exclusively only drinking Pampal Moose-flavored LaCroix, Kathleen? Oh, really? I mean, if I didn't know this. I mean, if there's a lime in the fridge, I'll take it. But as far as what I'm purchasing, it's three boxes of Pampal Moose LaCroix every Sunday. Three boxes every week? Okay, Target only has the eight packs. That is an important clarification.

But they started giving me the whole palette in my pickup order instead of taking it. It's an important clarification, but it's still excessive. I would agree. Yeah. I just have to go pick up my palette of LaCroix. Hello and welcome to another episode of TPO Explaners. I'm Joe, podcast producer here at The Pour Over. And I'm here with Jason, our founder and editor-in-chief.

And Kathleen, our managing editor. So here's the idea behind the show. Our readers share which topics they want us to explore and then we bring that idea to the podcast today's winner government shut down yes government shutdown joe what do you know all right i feel like this is deja vu multiple times a year yep like we're always the government is always about to shut down and in the 11th hour they agree to something that prevents it um my familiarity with it is i feel like it's usually budgetary or related to the budget like they have to come to an agreement on how much and how

they're going to be spending X amount of dollars or if they don't they got to shut down because there's no more money left so that's my understanding of it yeah pretty good pretty good yes so it is um really at play is where is it there the anti deficiency act is that yeah so the anti-deficiency Act, which was passed in the 1800s, but it wasn't until like a hundred years later in the Carter administration that they, like, ruled, hey, actually the government should shut down because of this. So it feels like the shutdowns were sort of an unintended consequence. But broadly speaking, the Anti-Deficiency Act says that the federal government, federal agencies, employees, people cannot spend or obligate money that has not been.

approved by Congress. So you can't, can't spend money, can't enter into a contract unless the dollars you are spending are approved by Congress. And if you do, it is a fine of up to $5,000 or two years in prison. So if NASA has been given like $100 to operate for a year and someone knowingly spends $101, then that person could go to prison. And so that's the fear is like, hey, you don't spend money that hasn't been been given. And then we're on this, the fiscal year is October through September.

So it is deja vu all over again. It generally happens once a year that on September 30th, the like all the money that has been approved for the last year is going to run out. Like it's you had this much and you were allowed to spend it up until September 30th. October 1, you need fresh approval. And so if Congress hasn't approved anything, you can't do anything. Q shut down. And it feels like it's deja vu all over again because if you don't have that budget approved, you can Congress can pass what they call a continuing resolution,

which is just a temporary fix. They're like, all right, we can't agree on the whole budget. What we can do is agree that for 90 days, we'll allocate this amount of money, and then we'll go back to the drawing board, see if we can get the full budget. approved. So in that case, you would have until January to get the budget approved, and then we're right back to, like, here comes the shutdown. Yeah, there's the 11th hour again. That's why it feels like it comes up more than once a year, but they're kicking the Pamplemoose LeCroix down the road, which they never do. Right. No. Who would do such a thing? Flat pamplemose? Imagine.

One or the first of the clarifications. So these are laws that need to be. You know, passed each year. So you need to go have approval from the House and the Senate and then signed by the president. And the appropriations bills is what they're called. It's split into 12. So they divide the, so they actually need to pass 12 laws a year to correctly sets the budget for the federal government. And so the 12 things are like, it's like defense gets a bill and education. And because it's a huge job and the budget is you know like trillions of dollars they they like the

House Appropriations Committee has all these subcommittees probably at least 12 and and each one is tasked with like okay you go do this you set the budget and then it goes to the full house and then it has to go to the Senate and then it has to go to the president

and if it's changed at any point then it has to go like the exact final thing has to be you can't add a comma like the House has to approve exactly the same as the Senate as has to be signed by the president. And only then have you like done the budget. And so you'll get a partial government shutdown if like six of these things have been signed, but six of them haven't. Then, you know, the six departments or sections of the government that don't have an appropriations bill, those shut down because they don't have approved money.

So all 12 need to go through the full approval process and end up in the representatives, the Senate, the presidents, like all 12 parts need to be approved by each of those. Yeah, House Senate and President. And each one is basically its own law. And so it has to follow the full process to a bill becoming a law. Yeah. each piece of the pie has to be approved to make a full pie. It was fascinating, though, when I was looking at the 12 different appropriations,

like subcommittees and bills, just how many agencies like this impacts? I mean, just like quickly, the USDA, FDA, NASA, Department of Defense, ICE, TSA, the president himself, Department of Labor, Capital Police, Veterans Affairs, construction, military bases, car and aid, transportation. It's like, no wonder it takes a really long time. Wow. Okay, Kathleen. Well, actually, Joe, what happens if the government shuts down?

Like, what does that mean? First thought is, if you are employed by the federal government, you don't clock in because you can't work. There's no money. So don't clock in. So you pretty much have time off. That's, I guess, unpaid. Great.

So, hey, you're the wife of a federal employee. So what happens? For any non-essential government employees, they stay home without pay until further notice. If you're an essential government employees, that would be like Active Duty Army, TSA, air traffic controllers. They would go to work without pay for however long. So, for instance, Todd, he's required to go to work. He just doesn't know when he'll be paid. But they did pass at some point a law mandating that you would receive back pay.

In 2019. Yep. Yeah. So wait, until 2019, you would not even receive back pay? It was not guaranteed. I think you always did. But they were saying, hey, like, whether you've been furloughed or you had to work without pay, like, once the shutdown's over, you will get the money you expected. It's just going to be delayed.

Gotcha. Yeah. So there's essential personnel that keep working without pay. There's non-essential. And examples of that are like... If our logo is essential. Yeah, our logo is not essential. It's, yeah. The, for the podcast, it's flickering on and off, obnoxiously. But so national parks close, passport and visa applications stop. SBA loans. SBA applications are paused. But there are things that. that do continue, the post office does because it's self-funded.

And some offices, like the Patent and Trademark Office, have reserve money. Do you want to unplug the logo? It's... It's bothering? Yeah, it's very distracting. I mean, this is the state of the...

The federal government? I know. I wasn't going to go there. So, mail still comes, and the Patent and Trademark Office, like, has a reserve. I don't know why they do, but I don't know. Because America is a capitalist country, and we need to continue our innovation and trademark

and patent. We'll go with that. So can we go there? Do you know who is not affected? Who still gets paid during shutdowns? Uh-oh. You're saying that in a way that it's going to be controversial. Does the president, does Congress?

Yes. So the Congress and the people who did not pass the bill. So because, so Congress, members of Congress, the president. Supreme Court justices, all their pay is guaranteed through other laws outside of the appropriations bills. So those paychecks keep flowing. And yeah, you can- Wasn't there a push like semi-recently to change that so that there was more incentive for them to pass the, am I making that up appropriation bills? Oh. If not, write it down. Yeah, I have not, I haven't heard that, but that could totally be the case. Yes. So a little controversy there.

Okay. So the most recent shutdown, well, not most, the longest shutdown. It's the most recent. Oh, and most recent. It was in 2018. It lasted 35 days. It was sparked over disagreements of border wall funding. And so 380,000 employees were paid on, were furloughed, unpaid leave. And 420,000 worked without pay. So slightly more government employees are essential than none. and um but they all received pay once it was done and since then it that's been guaranteed it was interesting because that um they they said the cost of that shut down with something like five billion dollars and that's from revenue loss from national parks and the money they had to pay back to everybody and just the loss of of um I guess productivity yeah productivity yeah it feels weird it feels like it should save money like if the government shuts down and isn't. You turn the lights off for a few days.

Sure, your bill will go down. And I don't know how that $5 billion is calculated. I think three of it was the back pay. It was like a really large amount. And so it feels like that's a weird thing to say that it costs because you're going to pay that anyway. Right. Yeah. Don't look at me, look at Wikipedia. Yeah, yeah. I mean, some very

impressive source that I looked into. Yeah. Hey, it's Nicole from the poor over. I got to be honest. I'm a pretty routine eater. But you can only have chickens so many ways before it starts getting old. That's why I love Hello Fresh. The instructions are super easy to follow, and there are even pictures, so I feel like a pro chef without the stress. And it comes

with everything I need to make the recipe. Best of all, it gets me out of my recipe rut. Hello Fresh has tons of variety, now with the double rotating menu options to keep meals fresh and fun. It also saves me so much time since I don't have to go to the grocery store or brainstorm recipes for the week. Fresh ingredients just show up at my door ready to go. The best way to cook just got better. Go to hellofresh.com slash TPO10 FM to see the newest seasonal dishes and get 10 free meals plus a free item for life. One per box with active subscription. Free meals applied as discount on first box. New subscribers only varies by plan. That's hellofresh.com slash TPO10 FM to get 10 free meals and a free item for life. Joe, do you think you get it? You think you get government shutdown? So yeah, it all

started from the Anti-Deficiency Act way back in the 1800s. And but the thing is shutdowns came later. This was a functional thing that happened long after the act came into effect. And so essentially what happens during government shutdown is the federal government and agencies can't spend money that hasn't been approved. And if you do, there is a $500 fine. Yeah, up to $5,000. Oh, up to $5,000. And not a dollar over.

And I don't know if anyone actually has been imprisoned, but it's, it is illegal and criminal. Yes, you can spend some jail time. But not money. It happens every year, September 30th, and so that's why we keep seeing in the news, just like clockwork, because it is. But then it can come up more than once in a year because you can get a continuing resolution to extend the time temporarily. It's kicking the can of Pampumous-Licroy down the road. The laws need to be passed every year through an approach. Bill, which is a subset of 12 unique bills that need to be passed through the same process every time.

And so you can have a partial government shutdown if only a partial number of the 12 are passed. You could have 11 out of the 12, but that would still, we would not be out in the clear. There would still be a partial government shutdown. That portion, whatever doesn't have approved funding would shut down. Yes. essential government workers they continue working without pay but they will receive back pay and interestingly controversially the president congress supreme court justices they continue to get paid during a government shutdown so do with that info what you will in 2018 the longest

shutdown in our history thus far has been 35 days um and that's what i learned I just have a question. You said every September 30th this happens. Like, do we always wait until the last minute, or do they pass the appropriation bills sometimes ahead of time? I have to imagine that they have been passed ahead of time many times in our country's history. I don't think it has happened much recently.

We should all right about it. Right. And the prior to the Carter administration, when these shutdown started happening, because that was the new interpretation of this. 1800s law, basically the agencies would just continue operating and be like, yeah, they'll give us the money eventually, you know, like, and which honestly is kind of, kind of true. That's like how it works is there's a lot of employees that are forced to just continue working and they're like, eh, we'll figure it out eventually.

So, yeah, little quirk of the U.S. system. Kathleen, you wrote this article. Do you have a Christian perspective, a takeaway? way, what should we as believers think about that? It's weird because I had this like roller coaster of emotions, not really, but while I was writing this of like, huh, at the end of the day, everybody's going to get paid and like they're going to pass some kind of bill. What's it matter?

Like, why is there this doom and gloom of like, here comes the government shut down? Of course, that's like really surface level because even there is that uncertainty. Like if you stay home for however many days, like you're going to get back paid, but what if you're living bill to bill? Like, you know, but anyway, at the end of the day, our hope is not based on a political outcome. Our hope is not based on economic security or government shutting down. It is rooted in the eternal security that we have provided by Christ. So we can weather any storm, even a shutdown.

Yeah, and I think that's a great reason to place your hope in Christ, because these things will come. Yeah. At least once this year, it will come down to the 11th hour and maybe multiple. multiple times. Yeah. But now you know, now you don't have to, Garrett,

when you see that headline. You guys have taught me so much. Appreciate it. Thank you for listening to another episode of TPO Explaners. As a reminder, we are on YouTube through video and on Spotify video.

So if you want to actually watch and listen at the same time to this podcast, you may do so. To our flickering logo. Yes, yes. Indeed, we are shutting down because we don't have enough funds

to pay the light. in this building. Yeah, this was not sponsored by Roy, but... Yeah, give us a call. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time. Bye. My pantry stays stalked with element.

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