The Pour Over Today - TPO Explains: How Does the FBI's Most Wanted List Work?

Episode Date: January 31, 2026

Readers of The Pour Over pick a topic to have explained, and Jason and Kathleen have to get Joe to understand it in less than 30 minutes… This week, they’re explaining The FBI's Most Wanted List. Looking to support us? You can choose to pay⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠here.⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our sponsors! We actually use and enjoy every single one. ⁠⁠⁠⁠Cru⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Wild Alaskan⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Safe House Project⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Gloo⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠QAVA⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠CCCU⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Filament Bible⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Upside⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Mosh⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠LMNT⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Theology in the Raw⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Not Just Sunday Podcast⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠⁠Bible Gateway Plus⁠⁠⁠⁠ ⁠⁠⁠The Pour Over Corrections Page

Today's episode is brought to you by our lead sponsor, Safe House Project. Today we're diving into the FBI's Most Wanted list. How do you get on the list? Who are some of the most infamous people who've been on the list? Can you get off of the list? How do the rewards work? Why was Ryan Wedding on the list? The Olympic snowboarder?

What does Osama bin Laden have to do with it? What does the country's ugliest building have to do with it? Who has been on the list the shortest? who has been on the list the longest. What kind of primes are on the list and how have prime trends changed as the FBI's most wanted list has changed? Who is the first person on the list? We covered a lot in this episode. Todd said the other day, he's like, do you guys always like it?

Are they sponsored? Do you have to drink element during your shows? And I said, no. We choose. Are you going to open it close to the mic? Oh, yeah. Sorry. The ASMR.

Don't. So I'll be honest. I have no idea what ASMR is. It's like, in my mind, it's like... I don't know what it stands for, but it's like making sounds, and some people find it soothing. It's talking? I mean, making sounds.

That's so broad. It's talking. I don't know. I'm not a fan of AIS. That didn't seem like... Did you take a sip? Yeah. Oh.

Well, you haven't had a, like, a religious experience yet, so I just didn't know. The pineapple salt, man. Oh, I've had this before. Is that why you wanted to... Yeah, I thought I was capturing. capturing your reaction while you were gone because of your hype around pineapple yeah do you feel like opened a gift from you while you're out of the room a little bit and then like didn't thank me for it even though i didn't give it to him but it's you know you can't be sad you were in colorado and just

on a work trip yeah us behind yeah it is delicious drinks guys it's delicious i like the lemonade one as well i haven't had the black cherry i just don't i like the black cherry Limes. Did I still make that one? Yeah, the one in the bigger can. I don't know. Are they, yeah, I don't know if they've like discontinued the bigger cans or just slaps.

Nothing slaps like the pineapple salt. It is very good. I haven't tried it. What else is going on in people's lives? Yeah. What's new? Nothing. Apparently that must be Kathleen.

Joe, your wife's hosting book club tonight and I was invited, but probably won't go. Yeah. We, Emily is an avid reader and define avid for those who think they're avid readers and are about to be put to shame. I'd say close to 40 books a year. Oh, I honestly thought it was higher than that. Oh, really? That's still, that's way more avid than me. It's like, oh, she's not a good reader.

Can she even read? What are you at? You listen to your books, though. That's fine. That's true. I listen to my books. I just don't. I'm about 50-50.

I go all trying between like, listening and reading. Okay. But last year I was at 48. My goal was 50, and it was a real push. I did not make it. So this year I'm aiming for 55. You need some, just sprinkle in some, you know,

Mama Lama books. I could count my kids' books. That's right. I would be crushing it. Do you read all sorts of genres and listen to? To my kids? Sort of. I mean, I'll like go between like historical fiction and then a third.

thriller and then an autobiography and then a rom-com Yeah, the thing between me and Emily is like she is a huge fiction consumer and I am like only nonfiction. Oh so you can read too barely but it has to be nonfiction

and so these book clubs that she's she's part of multiple and I am I do not participate because they're all about fiction books and stories and yeah I'm the boring You're out. I'm out.

I'm out. What about you, Jason? You know, I like big fiction, like fantasy books that are long. Not like nerd. Yeah. You're a Brandon Sanders fan. Yeah, yeah. Love Brandon Sanderson.

The Hobbit. But, you know, and so I don't get through many books. And I exclusively listen to those. And then I will read like business books or leadership books. and Christian books and stuff. I don't like listening to those because I like underlining and going back and stuff. But I don't get through many books

because some of Brandon Sanderson stuff is like, I mean, it's like 70 hours on Audible. Yeah. It's wild. I don't know. It's hard for me to listen to like if it was like a fantasy something or like I don't know what the sci like sci-fi. I just can't listen to that.

Really? There's too much going on. And the only benefit is that it's pronounced. words that I don't know how to pronounce. But I usually use Alexa and she doesn't get read right half the time. She's like, I can't read this book. It's like, I think that's wrong. No, I like it specifically for the reason of like, otherwise I don't know how to say any of these people's names, places or anything. Yeah. You should give Alexa a try. See what she comes up with. I'm sure. Sure. Joe, you excited about today's topic? I don't know how to feel.

because I'm not here let me tell the guess what we're talking about today or the audience members so we are going to explore the topic of the FBI's most wanted list and the reason why I'm like

I don't know how to feel about it I don't watch true crime detective those kinds of shows so this does feel very out of my realm of interest but it's weird because I like you like

to nonfiction. I do like nonfiction, but more of the high performance best practices kind, not the worst practices. Some of these are very excellent at their craft. Their craft is, you know, robbing banks. But all right, so Joe, sounds like you've teed yourself up for a bad answer here. But what is the FBI's most wanted list? Okay. So the FBI is the Federal Bureau investigation. Nailed it. Okay, so that or the FBI's most wanted list, I assume, is that there are these individuals who have committed, I don't know, pretty heinous crimes, maybe multiple crimes, and they're on the loose. So they are captured. Yeah, so they're captured on this list of we are prioritizing. Can't capture them in real life. I'm going to capture them on the list. I've got them on the list.

How do you do? How do you do? What were you going to say they're prioritizing? Probably these individuals that make it to this list and saying like at least gives them a roadmap of who to prioritize their energy towards and looking for. Yeah. Decent. Yeah. The biggest thing with the most wanted list is that it's a publicity program. So it started in the 1950s when the, what is the director of the FBI?

J. Edgar Hoover. Yes. And a member of the media, the newspaper guy was like, hey, give me like your 10 toughest guys. And people loved it. They were like, yeah, tell us who the 10 toughest guys you're trying to capture are. And so since then they're like, oh, you know, we could use this public interest to help us track down fugitives. And so now it's basically the 10 people that they're like, we don't really know where they are. It would be beneficial if the public would help us find them. And we probably won't find them. without the public's help or the public will know about them unless we put their name and face on this list. Oh, that's genius. So it's actually like crowdsourcing the efforts of the FBI trying to find these people. Yes. So there's like a kind of, I'll call it the master list, like a database of not everyone the FBI is going after, but hundreds of people right now I looked, there were 443 people on this list. fugitives. But then they have the top 10 list of like, hey, these are the 10. And think of that as like a spotlight within this larger list.

And it is purely for publicity to say like, hey, these are the people we're looking for. And we want you to like call in with tips and advice or if you've seen them or know where they might be or something like that. Yeah. Okay. So you mentioned the master list of like right now 400 plus individuals. So how does someone land on that list? And then how do they decide who's on the most wanted top 10? Why are you asking?

Are we interested this week? How do they find these people? You get on the radar. Do you have a more concise way to explain how they think who's on the list? Yeah. So it is the FBI's criminal division and their Office of Public Affairs, who then propose it to the executive management team of the FBI for final approval. That's at least for the top 10.

And basically everything we talk about for the rest of this is focused on that top 10 list. They'll ask like the field offices to submit candidates and then they'll just review it and say like, all right, these are the ones that will. But the process takes time. Like you could put somebody on the list and then they could be captured and they stay on the list for, you know, an amount of time because it takes time to put new people on it. So right now there are 10 people on the list, which there's occasionally like only seven and it can go up to like 12 or 13, but it's generally 10. And right now there are 10, but three of them have been captured.

And so they're like they're still on the list. Waiting to be replaced. Yes. And so this, the people that we talked about in the FBI that are choosing, what they're prioritizing is are these people a threat to public safety. are they difficult to capture and would public exposure help locate them? So it is not like these are the worst of the worst. It is, these are people that are obviously bad, but we think you can help us. And so it's a curated list for publicity. Human trafficking isn't just an over-their problem. It's happening right here in the U.S.

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when a child is ready to escape, and your gift makes sure they don't. Give a child the way out. Go to safehouseproject.org or check the link in the show notes to give now. Do they submit new recommendations only after someone is captured? Or do they kind of have someone in the queue, so to speak, ready to hop on once someone is found and removed? I don't totally know.

The one thing that kind of hinted at this is I found there were 15 times someone was removed from the list. And all of this, like, they keep like good statistics on their website. this. And basically, from what I could tell, they were removed because they note when someone is like captured or if they're killed or if they had the charges dropped. And then there's this fourth bucket of removed from list. No longer, they no longer fit the criteria. And so that could be they're believed dead because they're not alive and that is maybe an unspoken criteria. But the 15 cases you're referring to, like they no longer consider the fugitive a particularly, particularly dangerous menace to society.

Like that's the wording that they use. So, yeah. But when somebody's removed, somebody does take their place. It just is a lengthy process to do that. Gotcha, gotcha. So that begs the question. The prompting for this topic was the individual who was a, did I read, did I read? He was in an Olympian snowboarder, something like that.

Yep. So, yeah, it just brought up some more time or fame and attention to the most wanted list. So who else is on it currently? Yeah. Some names I will have trouble pronouncing, but we'll run through it. So any guesses on how many people in total have been on the list? So it started in 1950, right? Right.

76 years. Yeah. I would guess in total, have there been like 150? 537. Not a horrible guess. And so one of the like fun facts is they're not actually ranked. Like number one is not the most wanted. They're just 10.

And everybody when you're put on the list, you're given a number. And if you go to like the FBI's website, it'll be like right now we have on the list number 514, number 516, number 526, Ryan James Wedding, who was the snowboarder who was announced, he was number 535. And like for forever, that will be their number of having been on the list. Wow. So currently we have somebody who was added in 2017 for allegedly stabbing and killing his wife at a Dunkin' Donuts in 2015.

His reward is $250,000. We have... No, keep going. So actually, Ryan Wedding, who was captured, let's see, January 22nd, it was a busy week for the FBI because in January 16th, they captured Alejandro Castillo. He was added in 2017, wanted in connection with a murder that happened when he was just 17. So he's one of the youngest who's ever been on the list. Oh, wow. And he was also captured in Mexico.

His reward was $250,000. We have someone added in 2021 who has been charged in a federal court. for racketeering conspiracy, cocaine import conspiracy. He's an alleged member of MS-13 for all of, leader of MS-13 for all of Honduras. He's still at large. And his reward was recently,

well, actually, 20-23 increased to $5 million. Oh, my goodness. Yeah, there is a minimum reward if you're going to be on the top 10 list. Yes, which recently not. No, I don't think there is, I think it's like availability of resources.

For a long time, it was if you made, did the top 10 acting as if it's an accolade. If you were on the top 10, it was a $100,000 reward. And they upped it within the last few years, 2023 to 250,000. But the number can go higher. And it's like my understanding is that the 250,000 is like the FBI is putting up that money. And then there can be other agencies, other countries, private individuals that can all like pile money in and say, no, we want the reward higher and higher. And so I think I saw this right,

the reward for Ryan Wedding was 15 million. Yeah. Because the other agencies poured into this pot. Yes. Yes. And like the FBI could put in more as well, but it's just saying it's not like all the money isn't necessarily coming from the FBI. And yeah, there were there are a couple instances of like private institutions or individuals that were saying like, no, we, we've been personally harmed by this person, we want them found, we'll just put a million dollars into the pot. Yeah. Let's see. Also on the list, a woman named Ruha, I don't know if I'm saying that correctly. She was added in 2022. Hasn't been seen since 2017. She was part of a massive fraud scheme. Her reward was recently increased to $5 million. Someone added in 2022 for involvement in a murder, $250,000,000 reward.

member of a transnational criminal organization, foreign terrorist organization, rewarded five million. So this brings up one thing. First, I think right now there are two women on the list. One has been captured. Yep. And it's a largely male dominated industry still being on the top 10 list. But there have been 12. Yeah, 12 since 1950. And also you're going through the crimes. Can I, I'm going to move forward one of my fun facts out of the fun facts section. So there have been like clear trends in the crimes that will get you on the top 10 list over the decades. Do you want to finish these? Oh, go ahead.

Okay, okay. Finish him. Let me just finish the 10 because you'll see the pattern you're talking about. So we already said the transnational criminal, he's charged with narco terrorism, which is interesting. Like some of them are allegedly, you know, in connection to whatever. And some of them are actually charged with. So we have another leader of a transnational criminal organization, Ryan Wedding, who was drug trafficking related murders,

senior leader of Trend Dayor, right? How do you say it? The Venezuelan. Daragua or something like that. I'm glad you pictured it, not me. He has been charged with international cocaine distribution, $5 million reward. And then the other woman you were talking about,

she was added just last July. So I think she's number 537, the last who's been added. And she's accused of murdering her five-year-old son in 2022. Now she was arrested. She was captured. She was arrested in India last August. So she was only on the list for about a month and a half. So the trends.

The trends, yes. Okay. So it starts in 1950. And in the beginning, the list. is dominated by bank robbers, murderers, kidnapping, and prison escapes. Then in the 70s and 80s, you get a lot of organized crime. These are mafia and some serial killers, which, again, just like kind of tracks, you know. Then in the 90s and through the early 2000s, it's terrorism, domestic terrorism, some

international terrorism, which is you don't, like you mentioned this woman was found. in India. This is not a, this is not like a purely U.S. Obviously the FBI is a U.S. agency, but like they'll take tips from anywhere around the world and kind of go anywhere to try to capture these people or work with other countries. The point that have been captured right now, two were captured in Mexico and the other one was India. And then from 2010 to now, it's been a lot of child abduction or exploitation, human trafficking, and then like international drug crimes and fraud in that category. One of the things they say is that like they need the publicity from coast to coast.

And there's only three states where they have not apprehended somebody on the most wanted list. Do you get one of the states? Do you want me to guess? Yeah, sure. Alaska? Yes, that's one of them. Okay. Hawaii.

No. Vermont. No, but getting warmer. Oh. I think. New Hampshire? Maine. Yes, Maine is one.

Alaska, Maine and Wyoming. Delaware. Delaware. So I don't know. Maybe don't go to those three places. They're probably trying to mark them off the list. Yeah. If you're on the,

if you're on the lamb. Okay, I got to ask with the topic of rewards, monetary rewards, do people make it like their retirement gig to just find somebody? Yeah. I don't know. It's interesting because, like, looking at the posters, almost all of them have some sort of warning at the bottom, like, consider this person armed and extremely dangerous.

Like, do not approach. Call law enforcement. I don't know if I'd want that gig. Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about rewards. We've said, so if you're on the master database list, the rewards range from like 10 to 100,000. Again, there's no cap, but right, you know. the top 10 is a minimum of 20 250,000 and can go up and the rewards can be split and what I thought was so interesting is they can be split unevenly based on how useful the info was interesting which feels like a recipe for like a court case you know it's like who who decided this was 60% helpful you know the rewards are not bounties okay so you don't need to

You don't need to capture them. Again, armed dangerous, don't do that. It's just providing information. Yeah. So examples are if you have a like confirmed location of where they are, if you know a pattern of their movement and so where they'll likely be, if they, if you know a new alias they're using and things like that. And tips can be anonymous and you can be paid even if you provide an anonymous tip.

They have a whole system set up because the thought is this is going to be someone on the inside. You know, we've, we've made the bounty big enough that someone's going to flip on them. Right, right. So keep it anonymous. So you do not create any more barriers from someone being open about giving the tip. You think you're taxed on that? Oh, I'm sure. I did see one of the, I think it was the first, I don't know, one of the people who was apprehended thanks to like public tips was because they would frequent a hair salon. And then they saw them on the list and they're like, You know, they come to this hair salon ever so often. And so that was...

Like Willie? Is that you? Yeah. We'll talk about slick Willie later. So in order to find this list, you can just Google. Yeah. Yeah. It was very easy to find.

Okay. Which is... That's good. Yeah. Kind of the point. The whole point of the list is like, hey, these are the people. And they've even... Oh, okay.

So I'm going to talk a little bit. Here's my rabbit trail. J. Edgar Hoover. heard heard the name know he's connected to the FBI um he has that building he has that building I confirmed he's there was the US's ugliest building yes voted the ugliest building are you for real yeah the FBI headquarters until very recently they moved it and apparently Jay Edgar Hoover himself said like the monstrosity yeah building is hideous you know um but I I knew the name I knew he was connected with FBI honestly I kind of assumed that he was the FBI director in the

became President Hoover, different. That's why they always call. That's all Herbert. That's Herbert, you know. With the Iowa connection, Jason. Really thought through it, you know. Which one's the damn named after? Oh.

Gotta be Herbert. I would. That'd be my guess. Yes, I would assume. Unless it's a third Hoover somewhere. Okay. So Jayette Hoover was basically, so he took over. he ran the bureau for 48 years.

And when he took over, it was called the Bureau of Investigation, B-O-I. Boy. And it was a small, disorganized operation. And Hoover, like, turned it into the gold standard for law enforcement internationally. Everyone agreed, like, the premise of, like, hey, these guys are clean cut. They're well-trained. They're disciplined. Like that all happened under Hoover.

And it was because he demanded excellence and had this really rigorous program. But he also did a bunch to build the reputation of the FBI. And so he worked with Hollywood to have like more spy and FBI movies. He did things like the FBI Most Wanted list to like make these really public high profile criminals and their capture and kind of show how great they are. He also is, he created the National Fingerprint Database and created or set forensic science as the standard. He also was known to or known after the fact, at least, to basically be spying on everyone illegally. And he was spying, like using the FBI to spy on presidents and civil rights leaders and other politicians. and other politicians and judges.

And he, a lot of the things said, presidents feared Hoover because he, he was a stable presence and he knew all the secrets. And I mean, he ran the Bureau for 48 years. Wow. And so that is some of, that's why he's larger than life almost and he's synonymous with FBI. He created the FBI as the FBI. And once he stepped down or left office, the Congress was like, you know, that actually wasn't good for D.C.

Like, it wasn't good for the country. There was a little bit too much power in this unelected person. And so there's now a 10-year term for the director of the FBI. Wow. But it makes sense that he would have liked and started the FBI Most Wanted list because it fit this agenda that he had of not only making the FBI an excellent law enforcement agency, but making sure everyone knew. and felt the excellence of the FBI. You said it's a 10-year term now. So, Kosh Patel was not, like, he's not appointed with a new administration.

It just, with the timing of it was 10 years are up with the predecessor. So now it was just that timing of, we need a new FBI director. Yeah, so they serve at the pleasure of the president. So they can be fired by the president and reappointed. And so it was James Comey before, I believe he was. fired. And I mean, they chose a 10-year term to loudly say this is not a political, like this does not match with the political cycle. And generally, historically, you've served your 10 years. And then, you know, whoever is president appoints the new one, they have to be confirmed by the

Senate. And it has become more political recently. So are we ready for some fun facts? Let's do it. Yeah. It's a good, it's a good topic for. interesting facts. Okay, I have a couple very fast ones. How long do you think the, what is the shortest someone has been on the list? Let's go like a week. Two hours. Billy Austin Bryant was on the list for just two hours before being apprehended in 1960. That was efficiency. The longest was Victor Manuel Guerrana, who was on the list for 32 years. years. Wow. But was found and captured. Actually, he's still at large. Oh, he just dropped the list. He was removed from the list. So he has wanted for an armed robbery where it was a robbery of $7 million, which is the most like of any robbery at the time.

It was 1984. He was added to the list. Removed in 2016, believed to be living in Cuba, but just no longer fits the criteria of a menace to society. That is what? That is there a movie? Or a string of. Because that, that, that fuel. straight up like he won. Like he stole the $7 million. He was one of the most wanted people for 32 years and the FBI just gives up. I mean, I think there is a, at least either a movie or a show when I was looking into him of like hunting or chasing, tracking him. But yeah, just believed to be living in Cuba. Oh, wow.

32 years. Yeah. And then the success. So there have been 537 fugitives who. have made the top 10 and 163 were apprehended based on tips from the public, including two of people who were touring the FBI headquarters. And like in that tour, there's like, hey, here's the top 10. And twice they've been like, Billy?

Like, I know where Billy is it. Or like, I don't know how it worked out. But isn't that wild? No way. Yeah. No way. So of the 537, 500 have been apprehended or like located. That's like a 93% success.

That's very good. No, that's success. That's very good. Did you see that? So one of the things with the FBI is obviously they're wanting to, it's this publicity like we've talked about. And they have that TV show, America's Most Wanted. And the first episode that ever came out of that, they caught somebody from it. Whoa.

It was this guy, he was wanted in Indiana, or he was from Indiana for a crime in Indiana. It was number 409. David James Roberts. So, yeah, while he, the first episode came out, featured him. He was working, so he committed his crimes in Indiana. He was working in Staten Island. Workers recognized him and four days later he was captured. So four days after the first episode aired.

Man, that's wild. That is wild. And some people have turned themselves in after being on the list. Somebody had turned themselves in. Do they get the reward? No, I don't think so. And you know, who else doesn't get the reward? The military, if they were to capture somebody,

because they're just doing their job. I think didn't Ryan Wedding turn himself in? I think to Mexican authorities. Yeah, probably won't get the 15 million. It's an interesting loophole. They probably truly they thought. Who else has been on the list? Well, so it's the first person ever on the list was a guy named Thomas Holden in Oregon.

and he was found after his picture was published from being on this list. And then, let's see, he was a murderer. So he belonged on the list. The oldest guy ever on the list, he was added when he was 80 years old. They also never found him. He remains a highly wanted fugitive, but he's no longer one of the top 10 most wanted. He was removed in 2022. Any guesses that there's probably two names.

I think you would know who have been on the list. I can't think of names, but when you brought up the TV show, I do have a memory growing up of watching that and a recollection of, I think at the time, there was like a sniper that was out in public, like, in Maryland or something. And I don't know. For some reason, I have this distinct memory of a at-large sniper who, like, gas station. Was this 1965? No, it was probably later than that.

Osama bin Laden was on the list. So he was put on actually in 1999. So before 9-11. Yeah, 9-11. He had a $25 million reward, which was not given to military when they captured him. And when you said it's not a bounty, I was like, okay. But, yeah, so he didn't. They said they were just doing their job.

So he was number 456. Let's see. There was one guy who was on the list twice. His alias was first on the list. It is the guy who assassinated or is believed to have assassinated MLK. So he was on as Eric Starvo Galt and also as James Earl Ray. Believe to be is that? I didn't know.

Is there controversy over whether or not? The person who was telling me all this stuff is the historian for the FBI. This guy knows a lot of stuff. He was just spouting off facts. And he was like later in the guy's life, some of the stuff he said, maybe like contradicted his original statements. But it hasn't held up in the FBI. They're like, no, he's still the guy who did it. But you were talking with this guy?

I felt like I was. But no, it was still a video. Okay. I was like, you researched way more thoroughly than I did. I had a call earlier. Yeah. And why is he not on the podcast? Like, make a much better hoax.

Yes. Anyway, so he was on there twice. He was number 277. And 351 had a couple prison escapes. Let's see, there have been some brothers on there. Ted Bundy was on the list, number 360. And it was, let's see, he was on trial for a Colorado murder. So a state crime.

But this FBI guy was saying, like, if you're fleeing, like, justice, then that makes you a federal fugitive. Like, you can use the federal list to find you. So they found him in Florida. A guy named Slick Willie was on the list. He has kind of a cool story. I can talk about him. Yeah, Slick Willie.

He escaped from prison like six times. Yeah, this guy was good at escaping prison. So Slick Willie, this is in 1950s. He was the first, he was number 11. He was the first person to be added after the original 10. And he was added after his sixth prison escape. They called him Slick Willie because he would go rob banks and like wear disguises. And apparently he was like really nice when he robbed the bank.

And they asked him, they were like, why are you robbing the bank? And he's like, because that's where the money is. But so this guy goes, you know, he's finally captured. He goes to prison. He gets out on parole. I mean, he was put on the list in the 1950s. He gets out on parole in the 1960s. So I don't know.

He served his time. And then he moves to Florida, becomes an actor and just like lives the rest of his life until the 80s. Wow. And really, I don't think. The FBI, according to the FBI, he hadn't committed any more crimes by the time he passed away. Man, what a cool redemption story. Because that is not, it does go to show, and it's a good reminder that, like, this list is not necessarily the worst to the worst. There are some of the worst of the worst.

Yeah, some of them made my stomach turn just reading. Yeah, no, it's. And, but, but Slick Willy is a cool example of like, hey, this, this guy was a, a. he was robbing banks everywhere and also breaking out of prison yeah breaking out of prison and reformed it felt like man if you break out of prison six times kind of seems like a you know five or 10 year sentence might have been a little light but like also clearly not like he had gotten yeah what's he given credit for partial time served yeah um yeah those are fun facts fun I mean kind of fun like some of the people on here they're

somebody who put a bomb at the Olympic ceremony in Atlanta, like, I don't know, some of the names and, like, crimes they've done, it's like, what? The FBI couldn't find this person. This person was at large for 30 years or whatever it is. It's wild to think about, but. Yeah. All right. Should we move on to Christian perspectives? Yeah, I'll, I'll start. I think, I know Kathleen's, and it's a good one. So we'll get mine out of the way. I was just thinking that reading through the crimes, it's easy to be angry and indignant over these things. And just wrestling with the challenge of we need to pursue justice and love these people. And just wrestling with what that means, like loving them does not mean that we preemptively forgive them for their crimes and don't try to hold them to a

count, but also to do that in a way that is loving was the conviction that I felt. Yeah. My Christian perspective came from slick willy. Just thinking about, like I said, some of the crimes and also just the sheer number of, like fugitives out there was kind of overwhelming for me to think about. The FBI has this list, but the Secret Service has a most wanted list. The U.S. Marshals has a most wanted list. Like all these government entities have these most wanted lists of just like bad people.

But then I read about slick willy and it's like, okay, there is redemption out there and we can hope that people would find redemption. And I don't know. I thought a lot about we were called to love neighbors and enemies alike and speak about people with dignity and respect even if we feel like they haven't earned it. So yeah, I leaned into above all love again. Great. Thank you guys for educating me on this topic. It was very interesting. Yeah.

Yeah, I came in unsure, but you definitely got me hooked. Joe, spending a lot of time on the FBI website. That's right. I was going to say, like, we've opened up the genre of true crime to Joe. All right. Well, thanks everyone for joining us on another episode of TPO. explains. As a reminder, you can watch this episode on YouTube and Spotify. Make sure to like, comment, and subscribe. We'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback. Thanks for tuning in. Until

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