The Pour Over Today - What is SNAP? TPO Explains I 11.08.25

Episode Date: November 8, 2025

Readers of The Pour Over pick a topic to have explained, and Jason and Kathleen have to get Joe to understand it in less than 20 minutes… This week, they’re explaining SNAP. Join over 1.5 million readers with our free newsletter ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Looking to support us? You can choose to pay ⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠here⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠⁠ Check out our sponsors! We actually use and enjoy every single one. Cru Surfshark Holy Post CCCU Upside Mosh LMNT Theology in the Raw Safe House Project Not Just Sunday Podcast Quince Life Application Study Bible She Reads Truth

Today's episode is brought to you by our lead sponsor, Safe House Project. You want to tell us about the good news yesterday? Yes. So my wife, Emily, is 37 weeks pregnant, and unfortunately, for the last couple weeks, baby has been breached. So feet down, and you want head down for those that do not have experience with children. we went in for what they call an ECV procedure where the doctor puts hands on the belly and like physically turns the baby to manipulate to bring the baby head down and we have a handful of friends that have experienced this and two consistent themes came out with everyone we talked to that experienced this one it's really painful every single person said it's really painful and number two it only works successfully like a fraction of the time. So we go in and we go in the labor and delivery room.

She's getting prepped. You have to have an OR ready just in case things go awry and you need an emergency C-section. So the doctor comes in and she's like, hey, let's do an ultrasound so I know where the baby's positioned and I know the route that we're going to take. so she puts the ultrasound like towards the top of Emily's belly and there's no head there she's like okay let me try again and she moves it lower and we found out before we need the

procedure through the ultrasound that baby flipped head down all all on her own and so amazing yes seriously praise god so many prayers went into this and it was the best outcome Oh, that's awesome. Well, I'm happy for Emily. Yes. A little gymnast baby. Absolutely. We love to see it.

Yeah, doing flips in there. That's right. Hello and welcome to another episode of TPO Explains. I'm Joe, podcast producer here at the Porover. And I'm here with Jason, our founder and editor-in-chief. And Kathleen, our managing editor. So here's the idea behind the show. Our readers share which topics they want us to explore, and then we bring that to the podcast.

Today's winner, What is Snap? Great question, Joe, what do you got? What is Snap? You tell us, Joe. Yeah, so obviously this has been in the news lately with the government shutdown, and this, from what I gather, is food stamps for those that, aren't able to afford food and drinks. This is a government-funded program that allows those in need to be able to afford purchasing those products. Yeah, spot on. It is literally, so the program has roots in the Great Depression, but was first formalized in 1964 as the Food Stamp Act, and then was renamed SNAP, which is the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program,

in 2008. And today, food stamps and SNAP are kind of used interchangeably. So it is food assistance for low-income Americans. So, Joe, what do you think you can buy with SNAP benefits? I hope that there's, I'm guessing there's a variety of things in different categories. So are there items that are in produce, fruits and veggies, dairy products like milk and yogurt and cheese, carbs, bread. I'm just going through the food pyramid in my head. So anything on there. Candy canes, candy corn, syrup.

Ceprements that I gave out from my parade candy stash on Halloween, all the things. But yeah, I would think anything in like your typical grocery store. Yeah, sure. So groceries, I guess a better way to narrow down is like, what do you think some things that are that you can't buy with the benefits? Not, oh, well, you probably are able to buy some non-food products. Like, are you able to buy, like, toilet trees, toilet paper? Nope. Oh, okay.

So only food products. Is that what I'm gathering? Only food products. Or, like, condiments and cooking ingredients you could buy. So if you needed to buy spices. ketchup, anything like that, that would still be included. And seeds. So if you want to grow your own food, you can do that.

That just feels a little bit like it has roots from... In the Great Depression. Yes, like decades ago. Like, oh, yeah, or will help you grow your own food. I don't know how often that's used now. I don't know. I mean, sounds fun. Plant a pumpkin.

Wait two years. Joe, what else do you think can you not buy? Yeah, so I'm going through the aisles in the grocery store in my head. Sometimes, you know, they would have like magazines, gum, candy, toys, all those, like, miscellaneous items. Yeah, I mean, essentially SNAP is intended to be used for food that you make at home. So you can't use it on alcoholic beverages, can't use it on tobacco products, not vitamin. not supplements can't use it on

live animals so anything that's I mean you can buy chicken in the poultry aisle of the cold part of the grocery store

but you can't buy a chicken if you're going to that right yeah if you're going to Tyson's you can't get one of those little live live chicks right no non-food items so no pet food no toiletries

and then you also can't buy any like hot ready to eat food so you can't go to hivey and get the the Chinese food or anything like that or you also can't get I saw this specifically called out rotisserie chicken so there is a very specific narrow lane of the type of chicken you can buy with snap benefits not live and not hot and ready but any other chicken chicken seeds eggs yes live chickens no um so yeah It's interesting to me that it was very specifically supposed to be foods that you make at home. You can't just go to McDonald's and use your SNAP benefits. I can't find it in my notes.

So, Jason, can you give a little context on like how much money people get on average each month to make these purchases? Yeah. So the average SNAP benefit is $187 a month per person. And so if there's a family of three with children, that's, it's an average of how much per person in the household overall that received. The maximum allowable benefit per person is $298. And that is in the continental U.S., 48 states in D.C. There are different numbers. It's higher in Alaska, Hawaii, and U.S. territories for various reasons.

but generally we're talking about under $200 up to $300. This is a personal curiosity question. Do grocery stores themselves ever like discount eligible items? Or if you just get the $187 a month per person, you're just stuck with whatever that grocery store is charging. Yeah. I mean, there's different. You can go to a bunch of different grocery stores. Like it's your choice if you go to Walmart and spend it or you go to Target and spend it.

Okay. Yeah. It's like the way they, one of the criticisms of the program is the way they determine that $100 or that $298 limit is based on the, do you remember, do you know what I'm talking about, Kathleen? It's like the, it's called like the thrifty. Oh, yeah, I did see that. There's like some federal. Federal thrifty. Yeah, like.

Thrifty food plan. The USDA sets a thrifty food plan, an estimate of what it costs to buy a healthy diet on a tight budget and then benefits are calculated from that. Because the amount is meant to supplement not fully cover grocery needs. Yeah. So basically the federal government says, hey, it should cost $200 to feed someone if they're being thrifty. You know, if you're buying groceries, cooking at home, all this stuff, you can you can, you can, do this with $200. And so that metric is what is used to set these benefits.

And one of the criticisms is that in, because it's set nationally, many places across the U.S., it's like you can't remotely actually. Being frifty in Iowa is much different than being thrifty in Los Angeles. Right. Yes. And so the states also step in and try to. adjust for that. But yeah, it was interesting. All right, Joe, how do you qualify for SNAP benefits? My instinct tells me, is there some income threshold that they determine? Maybe it's

percent poverty level, something like that. My guess would be it would have to be tied to income levels. Yes. So that's probably the biggest category is gross income. And there are different category. There's, there's gross income, net income. There's like deductions you can take from that. Like if you're spending some of your money on like child care or something, you can deduct that from your income. But generally speaking, the metric is gross income at or below 130% of the federal poverty level. So in 2025, that number or the federal poverty level was $15,650 a year for an individual and $32,150 a year for a family of four. So you have to be 130 percent. So you have to be below that number to qualify for. You have to be, how does

math work? What was the for family of four? It's what? 32,000. 32,000. So at or below 130 30% so 100% would be the full 32,000 you have to be 30% below that but again there are deductions to get there it's above that below 30% above that right yes so it's okay so it's 41,600 if it's so yeah um hmm I didn't do the math on that before Jason you should have made a slick chart for this oh you know I have a slick chart coming up. It's just a legal pad with 41,000 written on it that he holds up. Nice. Thanks for helping me get there. Yes. So 130% of the federal poverty level, which you're saying is 41,000 for a family of four. Yeah. Then there are other there are other eligibility requirements. You have to be a U.S.

citizen. If you are a lawful permanent resident and have lived in the U.S. for five years, I think, think you always qualify or you may qualify. So there's some allowance for not like 100% U.S. citizen, but if you are in the country illegally or are even somewhere through the process of becoming a legal citizen, you likely do not qualify. And then there's also asset limits. So basically you have to have countable assets less than $3,000. You don't have to consider your primary residence or retirement money. And in some states, there are different rules around vehicles. But basically, if you have $5,000 in cash in your checking account, you do not qualify for

SNAP benefits. And then those thresholds change the numbers 4,500 if you're over 60 years old or have a disability. So all these things are, there's nuance and there are like slight different. differences in the state, but broadly speaking, U.S. citizen and an income threshold. What if the Bible didn't just inform your mind, but also transformed your life? That's the heart behind the life application study Bible. It's more than notes and context. It's a guide to living out God's word every day. With over 10,000 study notes,

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answer a real quick question jason yes how frequently is is eligibility checked up on with individuals i think from when i'm able to see eligibility's checked every six to 12 months um maybe depending on like if you're elderly or disabled you might have a longer certification period but more or less you have to recertify every six to 12 months and you'll receive like a um recertification form and you could potentially have an eligibility interview. Great. Thanks. The question about the non-citizens. So one, like I was looking at Iowa and it was interesting,

the way they define it is like you have to be a non-citizen, like resident of the U.S., but the way they're defining is like you have allegiance to the yes. So like kids who are born here would fit into that category. And then like you said, Jason, having lived in the United States for at least five years, Like the general qualification, say non-citizens have to have lived in the United States for at least five years, be receiving disability-related assistance or benefits, or be children under 18. So those are the way non-citizens could qualify. Okay, Joe, what do you think about, I'm sure you've seen the headlines.

So how many people do you think are currently receiving SNAP benefits? In the millions, I don't recall the exact number, but this is. obviously been a hot topic with the government shutdown it impacts many many many people so don't have an exact number but in the millions let's say you're in a room of eight people how many of those eight people do you think would be receiving snap benefits uh i'm going to go one in the eight one in eight americans so that's nearly 42 million people um and then the way the math works you know, carry the one. There's like, I think, 36% of recipients are children.

So that would be like one in five children in the U.S. Yeah, U.S., kids in the U.S. This is where I have my fun chart. So you can see SNAP enrollment over time and the number of participants. So in 2000, it looks like they're about six. 17 million people that were receiving SNAP benefits. A huge surge in following 2008. And I think there's really two main drivers of that. One is the financial crisis. And there were probably a lot more people who were eligible and qualified. But also, this is when the new legislation

passed that changed the name from food stamps to SNAP. And I think changed some of the thresholds and eligibility requirements and things like that it was yeah it was all tied in together from what I was able to see like the financial crisis most of the people who needed the benefits so you think like manufacturing jobs you know stuff like that they the financial crisis just I mean if you consider construction was one that was really hardly hit or hard or hit and so those types of people really felt you know strained during that crisis and so not only did more people need the help, but requirements were shifted through legislation to get help to more people.

And it was all kind of tied in together. Yeah. So this was, it was just interesting to see, you see the like the jump in 2008, a steady decline, and then a jump up in presumably the pandemic. But we're still, we're at 42 million and the peak was 47 million. Yeah. in 2013. Yeah.

And that ends up being like one in six Americans. And it's right before COVID had gone back down to about 35 million and then spiked again to the 42 million level that we're at right now. So, Joe, what do you think you now understand the lay of the land of SNAP? What do you think controversial parts of this program are? And we'll explain generally what conservatives say in general. really what liberals say but do you have you have any guesses about where the controversy is in my first thought with the controversy is whenever you have in my mind like a welfare program it's not usually tied to like a heart of not wanting to

help people but I think it's more tied to wanting to make sure the resources are optimally and most efficiently going to the people most in need so you know with Snap is the controversy pretty much centered on? Are we being wasteful at all? Is it not going to the people that mostly need it? Are people taking advantage of this program? Yeah, that, well summarized. So I would say liberals generally see Snap as a moral, productive program. They point to things like it lowers food insecurity and improves children's health and educational outcomes and also boost the local, boost local low-income economies because this is federal money that goes directly to individuals that's then spent very quickly at the local grocery store.

And so there's some boost to the local economy. And conservatives see SNAP as necessary and support the premise of benefits going to hardworking Americans who have fallen on hard times, but are concerned about the, the things that you outlined, like people cheating the system and getting benefits when they don't really need them, or also people becoming reliant on government aid, and that's a big concern for conservatives saying, how have we created a system where one and eight U.S. residents is relying on the federal government to feed them, and the concerns of saying, like, well, I saw one kind of viral comment from a conservative.

that was like if you're relying on the government to feed you, they can starve you as well. And we've just given too much power to the government there. And then so concerns about misusing benefits and then also wanting to ensure that the money that is being spent is on nutritious food so that it is having those positive benefits for kids and that we aren't using government money to, you know, further obesity in America or things like that. So those are the two sides, generally liberals saying this is helpful and we should trust in people in need and not micromanage and allow them to spend money how they know how to do best. And conservative saying, yes, but also not everyone has good intentions when they're doing this. Great. Thanks for sharing both perspectives, Jason. Human trafficking isn't just an over-their problem, it's happening right here in the U.S. An estimated 300,000 people are being trafficked in America right now, and most were first sold as children.

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Do it? Pretty. All right. Question number one. What does EBT stand for and how is it different? So, EBT stands for electronic benefits transfer and it's not different. It's just the electronic system that allows the SNAP participant to pay for their food. So it's like a little debit card and that's where their funds are loaded on and that's how people use the funds at SNAP authorized retail stores.

Great. So it's the method. to get those funds. Great. Question number two, who determines what is eligible for purchase? I'll take a broad stab. There are, and this is a great question because it shows kind of how the whole program operates. So it is a federal program, and there are federal, like, the eligibility requirements that I went through are set at a federal level. It's funded through the U.S. Department of agriculture, but it is administered by the state. And so the states have some, uh, some leeway on the edges of saying like, hey, we're going to, uh, like one example is like, hey, can you have

groceries delivered? States can determine that. But yeah, what, what is actually, so, uh, yeah, I assume broadly the federal government chooses who, what can be bought, but I assume the state has some ability to tweak and maybe say actually rotissory chicken totally fine um yeah pretty much so um USDA and Congress will determine legally broadly what can be bought but then because it is a federal like mandate like these are the things that can be bought states can apply for waivers to include or exclude things so for example just this summer six um Republican states that was like the headline is that the Republican states wanting to put waivers on SNAP benefits. I always included for soda and energy drinks and candy to not be covered by SNAP benefits.

So when I hear waiver, I sort of think of like, oh, should we add things to it? But this is a waiver to say like, no, we want to exclude stuff. So trying to put further parameters on what cannot be bought. States have that. And then they, like you said, they can run pilot program. So I'm like, let's see if it, you know, what's the benefit of having groceries delivered, stuff like that. So states can make those choices. Very helpful.

All right. Question number three. This is the final one with this rapid fire segment. Why is SNAP being taken away? I would say, great question. It is not being taken away. The question is, how is it being funded during the federal shutdown? And so the federal government.

shut down on October 1st and Snap had funding just like regular funding that lasted into or through that month. And now that we're in November, the question is, okay, how, where's the money going to come from? And so a lot of the headlines have been there's contingency funding and different things that requires, you know, special authorization to use. And the Trump administration was saying, this doesn't qualify. You just need to reopen the government. Like we can't use legally this contingency funding and judges were like ah actually you can so do that so now it's being partially funded but it's not the program is not going away yeah nailed it jason thank you guys and that concludes our first ever audience submitted rapid-fire questions make sure you're following

us on instagram quick plug at the pour over news and be on the lookout for future uh future submitted questions opportunities yeah Kathleen we did not include this last episode so we'll bring it back you want any fun facts for us um okay yes I don't know if I need a 90 second timer I think it's pretty fast so don't worry I just thought it was interesting you know food stamp program actually did start with paper stamps like you said it has its roots in the great depression and so it was really an effort to help out farmers who had a surplus of crops and poor families who didn't have the money to buy that surplus.

And so they would give orange stamps to people. You could buy a $1 orange stamp. And if you bought a $1 orange stamp to buy any food, you would get a $0.50 blue stamp for free that you could use to buy surplus goods from these, like local farmers who had too much stuff. So you could buy surplus farm goods like milk, eggs, beans, corn, stuff like that. So that's the fun fact that blue stamps actually did start with orange and blue stamps. Now you know. Awesome. Now you know.

Okay. I'll give that to you, Kathleen. That was super interesting. Thanks. Yeah. All right. Christian perspective. What do you guys have?

You want to go? Yeah, I can go first. For me, the, you know, we have our pillars of our Christian perspectives. And the one that stood out was just choose humility, knowing how many people were impacted by this program. is humbling and just knowing the uncertainty they're probably facing, hearing something that they rely on just to feed their families be a contentious headline is probably humbling. So just choosing humility when learning about and speaking about this topic is front of mind for me and just remembering that no matter what the political conversation about stuff like

these are people's lives, that's what's in my mind right now. Yeah, you know, I landed on the same thing of Choose Humility and just saying this felt like such a good reminder of both sides, just reading through what both sides, like they genuinely do want the same thing. And the arguments are around how to administer SNAP benefits and what, you know, kind of fringe things to do. But both sides are saying, hey, there are moments when people just need food and we want to set up a mechanism to get those. people food very quickly. And that's the point of the SNAP program. And so, yeah, just saying, like, hey, let's be humble, not over politicize this and say, hey, we're working towards the same goal. I'm going to assume the best of the other side and try to have productive conversations to solve this need as opposed to score political points in an Instagram comment section.

Yeah. Great. Thank you guys. Well, thanks everyone for joining us on another episode of TPO Explains. As a reminder, you can watch this episode on YouTube and Spotify. Make sure to like, comment, and subscribe. We'd love to hear your thoughts and feedback. Thanks for tuning in. Until next time. Bye.

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