The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Church & State -Empire of Lies with author Charles Goyette

Episode Date: April 14, 2026

Author Charles Goyette joined Caleb to discuss his book and the history of the Beast System it exposes. https://empireoflies.com/Church and State is brought to you by,  YOU!  Visit us at: https://churchandstate.media where you can support us by donating directly and find links to shop with our affiliates.Get our merch at https://standupnowapparel.com/partner-church-and-state/   Learn how to Protect Your Wealth against inflation at: www.BH-PM.com and tell them Church and State sent you.Support Church and State today by shopping at www.MyPillow.com using our coupon code: “CHURCHANDSTATE”.Our links are on link tree: https://linktr.ee/churchandstate                    Subscribe to our Locals Community (churchandstate1.locals.com)   Follow us on Rumble (@ChurchandState1776) https://rumble.com/user/ChurchandState1776    X(twitter) (@1churchandstate) https://x.com/1churchandstatefacebook (churchandstate1776) https://www.facebook.com/ChurchandState1776   SubStack (churchandstate.substack.com) https://churchandstate.substack.com/     *Help fund our fight against tyranny: Buy from our affiliates and tell them Church and State sent you. *Tune in on NRBTV Tue-Fri 1:30 PM Pacific! Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/prepper-broadcasting-network--3295097/support.BECOME A SUPPORTER FOR AD FREE PODCASTS, EARLY ACCESS & TONS OF MEMBERS ONLY CONTENT!Red Beacon Ready OUR PREPAREDNESS SHOPThe Prepper's Medical Handbook Build Your Medical Cache – Welcome PBN FamilySupport PBN with a Donation Join the Prepper Broadcasting Network for expert insights on #Survival, #Prepping, #SelfReliance, #OffGridLiving, #Homesteading, #Homestead building, #SelfSufficiency, #Permaculture, #OffGrid solutions, and #SHTF preparedness. With diverse hosts and shows, get practical tips to thrive independently – subscribe now!Newsletter – Welcome PBN FamilyGet Your Free Copy of 50 MUST READ BOOKS TO SURVIVE DOOMSDAY

Bokane Valley could become a sanctuary city of a different kind. I'm proposing that the city of Spokane Valley issue of proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Today on Church and State, the Empire of Lies with Charles Goyette. Hello Christian patriots and welcome to Church and State where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host Caleb Collier. Once again, your favorite far-right shock jock and the show that talks about politics and religion. Jesus Christ is our referee, so it's always nice and clean. Real quick, I'm going to point you to the website, and I want you to do a few things here,

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With that, let's go ahead and start this episode. And I am really excited to bring Charles on. He's a New York Times best-selling author and award-winning talk show host. He's appeared often on national television on Fox News, CNN, MSNBC, CNBC, Fox Business News, and PBS. He's also, he joined the former presidential candidate,

Ron Paul, for the nationally syndicated commentary, Ron Paul's America, that aired daily on 125, radio station and also is the author of the Empire of a Wise fragments from the memory hole Charles it is awesome to have you on the show Caleb I'm so honored that you invited me to be on I thank you very much absolutely it is a pleasure uh as soon as this came across my emails I was like I have to interview this guy I immediately got a hold of uh AJ is a publisher and said please get me Charles I want to interview him that's great well we'll see what you say at the end of the show

Well, and I also, I cannot wait to read this book because this is the kind of stuff that I've been talking about. Like, this is, I don't understand the disconnect, Charles. In fact, I was just interviewing somebody right before you and I made the comment. If you were angry with Barack Obama for engaging us in foreign wars, but then don't at all question Trump's actions here. Like, you need to check yourself. I'm so, I'm shocked and grave. disappointed at how quickly so many of the MAGA people that supported a campaign platform of no more foreign interventions, America First, American Resources to remake America, make America

whole again, no more needless foreign wars, no more regime change wars, how quickly they flipped when the president pointed in a different direction. I'm very disappointed in them and by him as well, for that matter. Absolutely. And one of the sticking points that I've said multiple times on this show and actually got in an argument on this show with people, they said that kidnapping a president of a foreign nation was not an act of war. I'm like, how do you figure that? Like, throw it on the other foot. If Canada got up and kidnapped our president, would we consider that an act of war? Of course we would. exactly so it's a and and i have met that in touring and promoting this book i've met that objection oh i'm glad about what we did with maduro well i've been complaining about chavez and mazorro in print for many years and trying to describe their socialist policies and how ruinous they have been and so on and yet when when that happened it was like all of a sudden people's that well this is okay

behavior and i said what do you want to you want to live in a mad max world in which anybody can do anything if they have superior might if their gun is bigger than your gun if they have a 60 caliber machine gun and you don't they can do what they want to do what they want to do you How would you like it? I guess great minds think alike because I used the same sort of analogy that you did. Would you like President G to be able to come over here and kidnap the American president someday? Would that be okay? Well, but, you know, we're stuck with the kind of shallow thinking that we're stuck with. And there's plenty of work for guys like you and me to try to do something about it. You're absolutely right. Now, you have a long history of this. I mean, you have a long history of this. I mean, you go back and you were combating, I

say, I should say verbally combating, George W. Bush with the first one, you know, and George W. Bush, I mean, what a superior intellect, you know, you can't fool me again. You know, that guy, right? But we all saw the propaganda,

the weapons of mass destruction that were there and the woman crying about the babies and the incubators they were thrown to the ground. It was all lies. And you, I identified it and we're addressing it back then. There were so many, and Empire of Lies isn't a history book, Caleb,

but I sure recount some of the most important ones. Let me, in fact, let me share one or two examples with you. In fact, even going back to the first Gulf War, this one was really choice. This is how clever these deep state operators are. I mean, you know, they're nobody's fools. They know how to push their agenda. So in the first Gulf War,

first of all, Americans should know, I know this has slipped down the memory hole, but Americans should know that Saddam, saying was our guy. I mean, the CIA brought the bath party from Egypt into Iraq and then at the head of the bath party, Saddam Hussein assumed power there and he was our guy. And when he was having an oil dispute with Kuwait about slant drilling or whose rights to these oil pools prevailed and so on, he went to our ambassador, April Glasby and he said, you know, I'm having this problem with Kuwait and I'm going to have to do something about it. What is your take on it? So we went to us for

permission first. And she said, well, we wash our hands of this. We take no position on Arab to Arab disputes in the region. And he took that as a wink and a nod. Okay, and he rolled into Kuwait. So the American people didn't have any reason to understand why they should, you know, send their young men and women, their fathers and mothers and sons and daughters off to liberate Kuwait, especially because the Al-Saba family, the royal family, was jetting off to Switzerland to go disco dancing. But Americans should go to the front lines to fight to reclaim their country while they were at a good time in Zurich or Lucerne or wherever they were going. So it was a very hard sell to the American people, and even George W. Bush wasn't sure about it.

Maggie Thatcher confronted him and said, don't go wobbly on us now, George. Well, he'd been fighting this sort of wimp image thing and stuff, and he thought, well, we don't want the voters think I'm a whim. So he said, okay, well, muster the troops, we'll go. But the American people weren't ready to buy the war. They didn't understand why they should. So this is a crisis for the White House. How do we stampede the people into accepting this war? This is what they came up with.

They came up with a story that in addition to taking Kuwait, now Saddam Hussein and his mighty army of, and I'm sorry, I don't remember the specific numbers, but it was like 10 or 15,000 tanks and 200 or 150,000 men. They're now poised on the border of Saudi Arabia. And they're going to roll into Saudi Arabia. They're going to take over Saudi Arabia. It'll be the end of American life. You won't be able to gas up your car.

You won't be able to commute to work while all freeze to death in the dark. So we've got to do something about that. And that got the American, oh, in the end of Western civilization, that probably wouldn't be a good thing. Well, if you say so. But there was one reporter in a little newspaper in St. Petersburg, Florida. She said, oh, 15,000 troops or 20,000 tanks and 150 men. Let's go find out. So she persuaded her little newspapers publisher to give her $3,200.

She hired the surveillance satellite time, which you could lease then for hours at a time. and American photo surveillance analysts. And they surveyed the whole area. You could see American fighter jets in Riyadh where we knew they were and stuff. But along the border from Kuwait, no Iraqi forces. In fact, no forces at all. No tanks, no men, no road that had been traveled, no resources, no logistics. There was no nothing.

And she said, well, this is a pretty serious fib. So she went to the administration to try to get a response to it, and they just shined her off. They just, you know, well, just trust us about it. So that was a good one, you know. She's lucky she didn't get Gary Webbed, honestly. Well, she could have. Yeah, she could have.

And I think maybe the only thing that saved her, she didn't push it far enough. But if she had been more prominent, if it hadn't been St. Petersburg, Florida, if it had been Chicago or L.A. or New York or Washington, you know, she'd have made a great target of herself. So, but can I tell you another one? Please. This was in the next, this was in the other Iraq war. And it was the same thing. there was the the American people weren't really sure why they should go into that Iraq war.

After all, Saddam Hussein had been our guy. We had abetted him in acquiring illegal chemical and biological weapons in his war with Iran in which hundreds of thousands of Iranians, kids too, were killed. He'd been our guy after all. So why was it that we were having to take him out and were these really, was it really true that he was formulated these weapons of mass destruction? So the White House Iraq group got together now. You would think if it's about war and about a nuclear threat, you'd have nuclear weapons experts, warfare experts. What are the consequences?

We'd blow up there for something. What do we do? It'd be serious people, but it wasn't. The White House Iraq group is a formal group, and they meet on a regular basis and try to come up with a marketing slogan to sell the war to the American people. But it was spin masters, speechwriters, pollsters, advertising executives. So their entire job was to come up with a slogan like, you know, Pepsi Cola beats Coca-Cola or something. And so what they came up with that you will remember is we can't afford to wait for the smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud. Yeah, that'll work. That'll work great.

So they trotted that out, and it was a spend job, but even then they couldn't persuade the American people. It was necessarily true. So the deep state in the person of Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney came up with this thing about these. aluminum tubes. These aluminum tubes are, this is the final nail in the coffin. We've got the goods on them now. These aluminum tubes are part of this huge, vast industrial process of refining uranium. They're centrifuge operations. You've got to have thousands of these. Now we found out they bought these aluminum tubes. So we've got the evidence now. You can't argue with us anymore. And here's what they did. This is how clever they are. I mean, your hat's got to be off to them for the darkness of their arts. They package this story up, deep state stories, Scooter Libby and Dick Cheney packaged it up. They fed it to the New York Times. The New York Times ran the story on the front page. So you woke up one Sunday morning, massive circulation Sunday morning, and it said, oh,

aluminum tubes, this is the final nail in the coffin, smoking gun for mushroom clouds. And that same day, Dick Cheney showed up on Meet the Press. As his PR person said, yeah, we like to go on Meet the Press because we can control the narrative there. So the same morning he showed up in the New York Times, he showed up on Meet the Press. And he said, here it is. Final nail in the coffin, aluminum tubes, uranium processing. We've got the goods on them. And he said, but don't take it from me.

Here it is on the front page of the New York Times. So, I mean, there's just no end of their diabolical cleverness and stampeding people into these regime change wars. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And as you were talking, I mean, one of the things I bring up all the time on this show is General Wesley Clark's warning. of the countries that we were going to invade, and nobody paid attention to him. But he literally spelled it out for you.

He talked about Syria. He talked about Syria. I talked about Iran, Iraq, Cuba, North Korea. Like, these have been our enemies for a long time. And Wesley Clark was pointing it out because they didn't have a World Bank. And, I mean, I want you to comment on that. But I also, I got to throw this in here as well. Like, everything that you're talking about, this has been going on a long time, ladies and gentlemen.

FDR had advanced warning of Pearl Harbor. and he let it happen because he wanted the American public to be up in arms so that we would join the war effort. How badly the American people are abused and they generate threats willy-nilly to stampede this. The one that came up with most recently was about two months ago. They came up with a national security threat. This is a presidential proclamation of the national security threat posed to the United States by Cuba. Wait a minute. They're driving 1956 Fords.

They couldn't land two skiffs on the Jersey shore. They're a national security threat, but this is how they start generating these regime change operations. And in fact, speaking of in our hemisphere, speaking of, for example, Venezuela and the regime change operation that went down there with Maduro, the American people don't remember, but 10 years ago, last month, 10 years ago last month, President Obama came up with a national security alert, a national security. threat crisis because of the grave national security threat posed to the United States by Venezuela. And, you know, oh, and that time it was a national security threat for, I don't know, they'd topple the American government or something like that. So I went back at the time and I looked at just how well armed they were. Well, you know, they were, this was Chavez and Maduro. I mean, they were so deep in socialism. They were so broke. People were beaten feet out of that country as fast

as they get just so they get something to eat. So they had no. And so I charted in the book, I charted all the weapons that they had were mostly famous for their non-existence. I mean, they basically had nothing, and they didn't pose a national security threat by any conceivable rational definition. And yet the deep state had its eye on Venezuela for a very long time. And all they were doing was seeking for a new rationale. And they finally came up with the fentanyl. You know, if you want to do something about fentanyl, there are other places you'd look first.

But they came up with that. So it's the same thing. Just like in Iraq, they needed a rationale, and they finally came up with a smoking gun in the form of a mushroom cloud. So they came up with a rationale this time. First time in Venezuela, they couldn't quite pull it off. They couldn't quite get the support they wanted. But it was about a national security threat to our very survival.

This time it was about the fentanyl crisis. So they always look at, you know, they've got the war that they want inside. The deep state knows where it wants to go. And then they have to come up with a pretext to somehow make it work. Well, I mean, it's insidious and it's honestly genius in what they're doing. They've taken the American people and they've stopped being at war with a specific country. Now we're at war with ideologies. And so we have like the war on drugs, for example, right?

It's in our psyche as Americans. You know, we have to have this war on drugs. And so using fentanyl as the cover for why they wanted to go into Venezuela, it just made sense. And the American people bought it up. They like this war metaphor because, war goes with the command economy. You know, I mean, if you're an empire, you know, Mark Twain said you cannot have a republic of free people at home and an empire abroad.

The governing principle of an empire is command. So if they have a war metaphor, the war on poverty, well, how exactly does poverty like surrender? How does poverty raise a wife? The war on drugs, the war on terror. It's all amorphous and so on, but it empowers the command economy. Well, we don't like to do this. people we don't like to infringe on your rights but after all we're in a war against poverty we're in a war against terror and so you're exactly right to identify it as uh you know instead of a war

and in fact that is another as you know that is another great failing of our time because the american people look you go to political things i grew up a political junkie to my great shame and i watched conventions and i used to go watch politicians and and uh speeches and labor day it's July 4th things. And they all would talk about the Constitution and our glorious constitution and this and that and the other. But of course, the Constitution makes no exceptions. It says if you're going to have a war, the founders didn't just, it was very smart of the founders to divide power. That was one way they tried to keep us free. You know, let's not let it concentrate. Anybody might get a little heavy hand if we concentrate. So they put some here and they

put some there, but they didn't just do it willy-nilly. They said, okay, they were knowledgeable people. They knew the historical precedents. And so they said, we'll give some of this power here and some. Why this? Why that there? Why this to the other? Because. And in the case of war, it was because they knew from the historical precedent.

Madison wrote about it that the executive branch. It can be the prime minister. It can be a king. It can be a president. The executive branch of government has a propensity to engage in needless wars. So they intentionally removed war-making authority from the president, from the executive branch. They gave it to the people and the people's representatives who, after all, pay for it and die in it.

And yet we haven't had a declaration of war since World War II. And, of course, the virtue of the war-making authority in the hands of the people is not just that it divides power and gives the power where it belongs to the people in this case. But it also requires a debate. And if you look at prior declarations of war, you see a debate about who is the enemy specific. It's not, you know, the enemy is not poverty. The enemy is not terror. There's an enemy that has to be defined. You have a debate about who the enemy is, what the offense is, what resources are we going to devote to defeat it? How will we know when we have won? What is game over? So you have that. So all the things that you look at in our regime change wars up and two, including today in Iran, we haven't had that debate. There is confusion prevailing everywhere at every turn about, well, it's over, no one.

it's not over. It's a ceasefire. I mean, they couldn't even decide amongst themselves whether it was really a war or something else. It was a war in one breath and it was an executive action in the next. But that's the purpose of a debate. And if the American people and the conservatives and the MAGA people are willing to throw out the Constitution in pursuit of an executive president that can declare war on his own behalf, I'm not ready to go along with it. And I know you're not. And confronted with the reality of what it means, I know even most, you know, even most Niagara people, most conservatives would be aghast at what the implications are. Absolutely. We came into this with this expectation of America first, right? We were going to go internally. And, you know, they like to use the term isolationist as like a bad word, you know. Oh, you're just an isolationist. I don't see a real problem in that of turning internally and starting to fix the things that are going on in America. I mean, we already brought up the fentanyl crisis. I think we could do some things internally to alleviate that. You drive around this country and you look at the infrastructure, a lot of the bridges are crumbling, right?

Maybe we take some of the money that we've been wasting on foreign wars and start actually fixing our own economy, our own infrastructure. I see that as a net positive. I see that as a very net positive. And, you know, it's been a shame that we've double-tapped the American people in all these things because we pay to blow up the countries, blow up the roads, blow up the hospitals, blow up the schools. And once they're blown up and we proclaim victory,

then we pay that we charge the... American people to rebuild the schools, rebuild the hospitals, rebuild the roads. But even more than that, it was always American success, American prosperity and American freedom that inspired the rest of the world. So if we dissipate all of our natural inheritance of freedom, if we dissipate our financial inheritance and waste all our money on, you know, paying for kids' gender mutilation in El Salvador or wherever it may be next, if we dissipate all of our inheritance, all of our inheritance, in these ways, then the rest of the world no longer looks to us as something to emulate. Why would they emulate a failed state in decline?

And so the role modeling that we used to perform for the world and had a tremendous effect on moving the world toward freedom and individual human rights had a tremendous effect for centuries, all that is slowly being dissipated and that value is being lost. You're absolutely right. And I mean, case in point, ladies and gentlemen, you know, you look at images. of Gaza right now. And as a Christian, that breaks my heart to see what has happened in Gaza. But Donald Trump is talking about building it back up, right? It's going to be the Riviera of the Middle East. How much taxpayer dollars, how much through removing the purchasing power of our

dollar through inflation, are we going to pour into rebuilding what Israel and the United States just blew up? Yeah. And I just saw the new numbers from there's a kind of an advance or early warning system at the Fed, the Cleveland Fed actually produces this thing. It's called Fed Now or something. And they try to give you an early warning of the inflation that's coming. I just saw there for the current quarter that we're in now, it's the second quarter of this year. They said, you know, now the inflation rate is obviously going to jump another two, another from the current baseline, another 2% this quarter, which is, you know, over 5.5%. But that's only the start because, you know, it's energy cost first and then food costs follow that.

and other repercussions throughout the world. So, yeah, we're squandering our inheritance from Esa Potage. You're absolutely right. And here we are 250 years, and we're going to all be distracted by fireworks instead of actually examining the Constitution and the Declaration and what it gave us. I wanted to bring this up because you say that in your book, you say that this is kind of the example throughout history that we've seen of empires that are in their death throes. they start and they go and start attacking every other nation.

Can you break that down for the audience? Yeah, it's called, it's not original with me, but it's so, it's a well-known syndrome. It's called Imperial Oversretch. It goes under other names, but that's as useful and evocative, I think, as you need. It's Imperial Oversetretch. So these empires grow and they grow and they grow and they expand. And what enables their growth? Their prosperity.

You know, the British were prosperous. And that's what enabled their empire. Americans were prosperous. We were, you know, the world's manufacturing. Hedgeman after World War II, that enabled us to have military bases in 123 countries around the world. I mean, it was our prosperity that drove the empire. This is always the case. The prosperity drives the empire. And then when the empire has expanded beyond what it reasonably should, and it starts seeing challenges to its dominance, manufacturing, military challenges, other countries

that want to assert themselves, coalitions being made elsewhere payment systems that settle in non-dollar currencies, when they start seeing these challenges to their hegemony around the world, they view this not as a challenge to their prosperity that made them powerful in the first place. They see it as a military challenge. So they divert even more resources to what they perceive to be a military challenge, and those resources, of course, are drawn from the productive economy. So it accelerates the decline of the productive or the prosperity component of our national life and expands the empire to its failure, to its breaking point of failure.

But they don't know any better, and they seem to all want to do this. A challenge, a military solution. Every challenge, a military solution. And that's exactly what we're going through right now. And have been, as you pointed out astutely before, it's, you know, before Trump it was Biden, and before Biden it was Trump, and before Trump it was Obama, and before Obama, it was George W. you and before that it was Bill Clinton. I mean, it just goes on and on and on.

No, you're absolutely right. One of the things I say on this show often is the last truly great president we had was Calvin Coolidge in my book. That's going back a long ways, unfortunately, but that tells you everything you need to know about America. I love this assessment of where we are as America, as an empire. And so let me just throw this at you. instead of and let's just keep this in the western hemisphere. So instead of going after Venezuela and Cuba, which we've been talking about on this episode, instead of going at them with military might, perhaps just using the free market, like not having an embargo on all Cuban goods, if we actually engaged in free trade with them, maybe just maybe the Cuban people would see,

oh, free market capitalism is positive. What we're currently operating under now is a negative. Maybe there would be just an organic revolution? Yeah. You're absolutely right. I don't know why this escapes our leadership. Maybe it's because they don't want to notice it. They prefer the power play.

But you're absolutely right. These severe economic restrictions on countries and the people in those countries empowers their own state. And obviously this is true. Look, the Soviet Union disappeared a long time ago. There's no more Cuban missile crisis. there are no more Soviet missiles in Cuba, you know, that sanctions regime should have ended at least, at least when Castro died, if not before that, when the Soviet Union collapsed,

it should have ended. But we punish the people. The Castro brothers never missed a meal. Only the people have missed meals. So, and a really good example of this is after the first Gulf war, we imposed these really onerous restrictions on Iraq. And that meant that it was depriving the Western world of Iraq's oil. So they created an oil for food program. We won't want to just sell their oil and do things that they think are good to restore their own country. But we'll work out a deal that they'll buy from our farmers and our farm state senators like Bob Dole will vote for this and we'll get all their votes lined up.

And so they'll give us their oil and we'll give them our food and then everything will be hunky-dory. But the result of that was that it empowered Saddam Hussein because he was the sole dispenser of food. So if you were critical, if you were part of a party or nefarious anti-state activities, you didn't get any food allotment. If you were supporters, if there was a breakaway movement in the Kurdish area, the people that supported Saddam got the food, the other people could starve to death. All these things always empower the state. And it's true that, you know, our cruel regime sanctions have empowered the Isla-Tolos in Iran, the Maduro's and the Chavistas in Venezuela. and obviously the Castro brothers and their epigone in Cuba. It's always the same thing.

And I don't know why it's so bleedingly apparent to people of goodwill that this is so because this is how we would react. How would we react? If we were shut down and our ports were blocked and nothing could come in and nothing can go out, how would we react? We wouldn't like it. So it's bleeding.

Charles, I hate to do this, but we hit that hard break moment. So we're going to come back though, ladies and gentlemen. This is Caleb Collier with Church and State. media. Ladies and gentlemen, if you're not sleeping on my pillow, do you even Patriot? I got to tell you, this is the most wonderful stuff from a man who's given it all for your freedoms. Whether it be the pillow, the sheets, or the slippers, I absolutely adore my pillow. My pillow has the greatest

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You're over at church and state. Dot media and we're going to go right back to our guests, but I do have to plug one of our great affiliates. And just because I want Charles to get one of these because I want everyone again, but especially fellow libertarians, I'm going to go to Mark 37 again. Look, ladies and gentlemen, you too can have a phone that doesn't spy on you, okay? And that may sound like a novel idea, but we've made it easy for you. All right. All you have to do is purchase a phone or a laptop through Mark37.com. We're a Christian company, and we sell ghost phones, ghost laptops, where you're not going to get spied on by those annoying advertisers, but also by governments around the world.

You can actually be secure in your communications. So check them out, mark37.com, and use that coupon code, church and state, you're going to get a discount, as well as you'll help support our network here. And speaking of that, I do got to remind you one more time to please hit the donate button for us, to keep us on the air, and to expand, because we've got to start having conversations like this. And I think the audience knows, I don't care. If you don't like me and you're in the Republican Party, I don't care. I'm just in a pursuit of truth and knowledge and what makes sense, common sense.

And so please hit the donate button, keep us on the air and help us expand. All right, with that, let's go back to our guest, Charles Guayette. And I want to bring on Empire of Lies.com. I want to promote this for the audience so that they can see this. and buy your book. I want people to read this book because, as you said, it's not a history book, but man, you're sure giving some historic lessons. Yeah, I'm trying to describe the trajectory that we've been on and the techniques that are used by the deep state. And I don't throw these terms around lightly, like the establishment or the deep state or the lapdog press. I define them for you.

The deep state, for example, is the executive arm of the empire of lies. And so it is a, it is like a beehive, you know, there are not necessarily meetings in which memos are passed back and forth and every member of the deep state gets them, but they operate like a beehive, you know, there are worker bees, they're work of their bees that go out and forage, there are other bees that go out and, you know, they serve the queen, they fan, they remove the waste and so on, they all have their own job, but they don't sting each other because they all serve their greater good, which is the hive. And this is the case with the deep state. So people tend to think that it's concentrated in like the intelligence agencies, and yes, that is true. And guys like

John Brennan and James Clapper that have lied to Congress and gotten away with it. They think that that's where it's located, and that's the end of it, but it's not. And you can use as an example, at least one of my favorites is during the first Trump term, a guy by the name of Lieutenant Colonel Vindman was on the White House National Security Council staff. And his complaint, he took it to Congress, his primary complaint in seeking to drive the impeachment of President Trump, was that Trump isn't following the interagency consensus. Now, having read the Constitution a time or two in my life, paid a lot of attention, I don't know where that,

which amendment is that, number 463, the interagency consensus? Who's in the interagency and how did they get there? When do they vote? What are the rules that they abide by? Can I be part of it? Who profits from the interagency consensus? You know, I mean, it's just, it's such absurdity. it really describes the function of the deep state.

There's a consensus, a prevailing collective attitude in support of the American global military empire, and they all serve it without question, and they know what they need to do to get ahead or to be valued within that power structure. So that's the deep state, and that's kind of what we're up against. And if we'd like to get rid of it, in my view, the best way to start is to end our global occupations. I think that's a fantastic start right there. Maybe bring the troops home, maybe close down. I would say the bulk of all these foreign bases that we have. Yeah, I think that's a fantastic start for truly making America great again.

But it just seems to be that old expression of meet the new boss, same as the old boss. And we're not paying attention to the warnings that some people are giving us. I mean, Eisenhower's very famous speech warning us against the military industrial complex and I'm not you know I'm not I like Ike you know I mean I he has his own set of problems but he did give us a warning here and nobody paid attention to it yeah and I try to be sympathetic with the American people on the one hand you know they have higher priorities that I understand you need to raise your family you need to raise your kids check their homework at night you know you need to you know mow the lawn or whatever you do at your home you need you know they have their

families to raise and, you know, they wanted their kids to go to the ballpark and play with them and stuff, and then they have work demands and then trying to save and get ahead and provide for their kids' education and on and on and their own retirements and on and on and on. So I understand the demands on them, and I'm sympathetic, but they've got to devote some time to turning it and tuning into programs like yours and stuff to people who will challenge the consensus and at least give them a ray of light that things aren't the way that the reigning media monopoly describes them. Otherwise, we lose everything, and this is the road that we are on, and that's actually the point of the book. I recount a lot of shattering, horrifying episodes in which the

American people have been led, misled, lied to in an almost unbelievable fashion. And yet the point is, this is the trajectory. This is where we're going if we don't start valuing the truth, putting a premium on the truth, and holding the people accountable. You know, the same people. This is no surprise to you, the same people that lied us into the Iraq war that was instrumental in my career, you know, are busy. I see these same people on TV lying us into another one. It goes on, it just goes on forever, and there's no accountability. And, you know, I saw Fox trotted out before the Iran War started, they trotted out Condoleezza Rice to tell us why we needed to do this. I thought, oh, that's just, that's just great. They exhumed her somebody said.

Boy, that is wild, but, you know, let's address that. Like, let's address the media and for the average American because, you know, everybody's familiar with the Rockefeller, you know, John Rockefeller thanking the media for their support and not reporting on what was actually going on so that they could advance their globalist plans. But one of the things, and I agree with what you said, the American public, you know, we are, we're busy. And we have our priorities towards our family. And that's right. That is good and that is right. It should be a priority in your life to be watching your kids and checking the homework. and making sure your house is in proper order.

But I would say this. Stop paying attention to the media personalities, the big talking heads. Look, if you're a Republican, turn off Fox News. If you're a Democrat, stop watching CNN, okay? Because both of them are absolutely lying to you, and you've got to find some people you can trust. And I'm going to say something else real controversial. I think you might agree with me on it, though.

If you're not an informed voter, don't vote. I'm good with that. And I am an informed voter, and I can barely bring my... to do it anymore when I look at the choices we have. But you know, you've stumbled on something that I don't even mean that you stumbled on. You obviously given the thought, but it's been very important to me throughout my commentary career is, and this is ancient wisdom. You find it from Jesus and you find it in many other commentators that should be esteemed for their wisdom. The idea of, you know, removing the beam in your own eye so you can then remove the splinter from your neighbor or your brother's eye. But the wisdom that I have tried to share with you. the American people is, it doesn't do any good for Republicans or conservatives to say conservatives to criticize liberals, and it doesn't do any good for the liberal establishment to criticize the Republicans until each one of them can clean up their own house. In other words, if Republicans put up with corruption, with deceit and dishonesty among their

own people, even though they think it helps them get an election as long as they're willing to put up with it among people in their own tribe, then we'll, we're willing to put up with it among people in their own tribe, then we will never redeem American politics. And if the Democrats do not judge their own people with the same standards that they hold against the Republicans, American politics will just continue to degenerate. Everybody has to clean up their own house first, and then the whole world will be clean. But it doesn't do any good to pit one against the other. All of our energy is squandered, fighting the other guys when we need to start cleaning up the liars and the crooks and the corruption and the graft and the and the plutocracy that's going on in our own parties.

Yeah, I'm 100% with you. I speak out about this a lot, the tribalism. And basically it's the football analogy. Your team can do all the fouls in the world, just blatant attacks on the other team, and you're still cheering them on because that's your team. And that's what politics has become in this day and age. And it's sad. And I think I have a suggestion. I think actually a lot of the American people believe this as well. But I think a good start with cleaning everything up would be maybe the Epstein files. Oh, I'm sorry, that rings a bell, but I can't quite remember what they are. The Dow, the Dow is 50,000, Charles.

I don't know if you know that. But now it's below 50,000. We can go back to clean up the Epstein files again. Yeah, it's just, I don't know. I saw Joe Rogan yesterday say very forthrightly that that was the real reason behind the war and Iran. I'm sure that there were a convergence of different reasons. You know, this is what seems to happen. You know, there are people, like in the Gulf War, the first, you know, there are people that, well, it would be good for the stock market.

Karl Rove thought, you know, well, Bush pulls 10 points higher if there's a war, so it'll be good for the re-election. There were people that thought it'd be good for promotions in the Pentagon, so people in the Pentagon needed some dynamics, some movement for promotion's sake. People thought it would war manufacturers, the merchants of death thought it'd be good for them and indeed it was just as this one is i looked at rathion stock the makers of uh uh the patriot missiles the other day oh yeah yeah they're doing they're doing just fine you could look at locking boeing and and so on so yeah i mean uh it'd be nice if we could if we could get back to uh you know it puzzles me as and it's not an original with me and i know you've no doubt expressed the same

thing but when we were told that uh that epstein got off in the first florida go around because he worked for national security or he's part of the deep state or that he belonged to intelligence you know you have to wonder well what kind of what kind of national security apparatus what kind of intelligence apparatus national security how does it possibly depend upon you know a criminal pedophilia our national security depends on our protecting criminal pedophilia I mean, it's just, it's, that in itself is so jarring that it should wake people up. It shouldn't have gone any farther. They're, what?

So, yeah, maybe we get back to that. Like, if our national defense, if our country, if our government has to protect pedophiles, satanic pedophiles that may have been engaged in cannibalism as well to boot, and that's another revelation out of the Epstein files. Like, who is our enemy? Isn't the Iranians? Or should we look a little more internally? And that actually leads me to my last question for you, because we're quickly running out of time.

But it's another controversial one, so I'm sure you'll appreciate it. Can we just as a country stop with our greatest ally? Can we allow Israel to go on its own and stop coming to their aid with every situation and circumstance? We're led around by the nose by these people, and it's not a good thing. and I think maybe, maybe it's beginning, you know, that relationship's beginning to break down. Who can't be unhappy with Israel's attack on Beirut? You know, in the face of a ceasefire that the entire world wants, the industrial world utterly depends upon,

in the face of coming global food shortages because of fertilizer, plus the expense of diesel fuel that runs farming and equipment all around the world, in the face of a global industrial shutdown, you know, Who wants Israel to go out and worsen the problem in the face of a ceasefire by attacking Beirut? It's simply incomprehensible, and how is it that we support them and sustain them in every regard, and yet they won't take any direction or leadership from us? It's a bad relationship, and it's time not just to be examined. It's a time for it to be broken.

I 100% agree with you on that one, and if you find either of our two statements to be anti-Semitic, well, I don't play that game. Tough. Examine the facts, ladies and gentlemen, because there's nothing anti-Semitic of saying, Israel, go be your own nation. Go thrive. Go survive. Like, it's you guys. We're taking our hands out of it. I think that's the appropriate approach for any government.

Well, Charles, it has been amazing interview. And I know I'm going to have to have you back because it's been so fun. And we've only scratched the surface. I'm sure you and I could have a grand conversation multiple times. But I want to go back to Empire of Lod. lies.com. And I just, in parting, just tell the audience why they should buy this book. You should buy this book to know where we're headed.

We need the course correction badly. The trajectory, you know, I think it was Patrick Henry, said, I know no way to judge the future, but by the past. So as I say, it's not a book of history, but it shows the methodology that the lapdog press, the deep state, and even the establishment use to corral us, to stampede us into foreign wars into their objectives, which may be good for them, but they are not good for us. So you read this book, you'll never look at these orchestrations of new wars and things

the way you've looked at them in the past. I think that is so necessary for the American public so that we can be opposed to the next war because we all know there's going to be a next war. Charles, it has been, once again, an absolute pleasure having you on. I can't wait to get your book. pour through this thing. I know I will. But again, I thank you for your time. Thank you for all the work that you've done. And I thank you for this book. I'm going to close us out. If you hold on one more minute post-production to say her goodbyes. I'd appreciate it. But again, thank you for coming

on church and state. Thank you, Caleb. Absolutely. All right, ladies and gentlemen, there you go. Do you want to live in a world that's an empire of lies? Do you want to believe the narrative? I hope not. I sincerely hope that you have, that you are an independent thinker and that you're critical of what's being sold to you, the propaganda, the agenda here. And if you want to start opening your eyes, I think this book, Empire of Lies, is a great start. Church and State is brought to you in part by Colonial Life, Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance, and Mark37.com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire.

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