The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Church & State -The Australian Patriot Topher Field from Freedom Fest

Episode Date: August 6, 2026

Topher joined Caleb for a conversation at Freedom Fest in Las Vegas this summer. https://www.topherfield.com/Church and State is brought to you by,  YOU!  Visit us at: https://churchandstate.media where you can support us by donating directly and find links to shop with our affiliates.Get our merch at https://standupnowapparel.com/partner-church-and-state/   Support Church and State today by shopping at www.MyPillow.com using our coupon code: “CHURCHANDSTATE”.Our links are on link tree: https://linktr.ee/churchandstate                    Subscribe to our Locals Community (churchandstate1.locals.com)   Follow us on Rumble (@ChurchandState1776) https://rumble.com/user/ChurchandState1776    X(twitter) (@1churchandstate) https://x.com/1churchandstatefacebook (churchandstate1776) https://www.facebook.com/ChurchandState1776   SubStack (churchandstate.substack.com) https://churchandstate.substack.com/     *Help fund our fight against tyranny: Buy from our affiliates and tell them Church and State sent you. *Tune in on NRBTV Tue-Fri 1:30 PM Pacific! Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/prepper-broadcasting-network--3295097/support.Support PBN and become a MEMBER of the PBN FAMILY! Free courses, Members only videos, reviews, and podcast! The Prepper's Medical Handbook Build Your Medical Cache – Welcome PBN FamilyJoin the Prepper Broadcasting Network for expert insights on #Survival, #Prepping, #SelfReliance, #OffGridLiving, #Homesteading, #Homestead building, #SelfSufficiency, #Permaculture, #OffGrid solutions, and #SHTF preparedness. With diverse hosts and shows, get practical tips to thrive independently – subscribe now!Newsletter – Welcome PBN FamilyGet Your Free Copy of 50 MUST READ BOOKS TO SURVIVE DOOMSDAYSupport PBN with a Donation 

Pocan Valley could become a sanctuary city of a different kind. Nadey, Councilman Caleb Collier, says that this proposal... I'm proposing that the city of Spokane Valley issue of proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Today on Church and State, the Australian Patriot, Taufer Field. Hello, Christian Patriots, and welcome to Church and State, where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Collier, once again, your favorite far-right shock jock. And the show that talks about politics and religion, Jesus Christ, is our referee, so it's always. nice and clean.

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whatever amount helps us get there. Lastly, if you want to get a hold of us, church and state 1776 at Proton.com. With that, let's go ahead and get into our interview with Tofer Field. He's an Australian. He's a patriot.

He paid the penalty for his patriotism and for his love of liberty in Australia, which during COVID became probably one of the most tyrannical nations in the entire world. It was rather shocking to see. But Tofer's one of the good guys, so I hope you enjoy this interview. Hey, this is Caleb Collier, with Church and State. I'm over at Freedom Fest, and I've got a great guest right here, Tover Field. find you at the Tofer Project, correct? Tofer Project or just Toferfield.com and Toferfield and Toferfield and All the Sessions.

Okay, excellent. Now you have, I mean, you are kind of a thorn inside of Australia, but really big government as a poll. And you really kind of, the catalyst for you was the extreme lockdowns that we saw during COVID. In Australia was like, hold my beer. Like, we're going to go full on tiring. Yeah, I was already on a journey towards libertarianism. Christian libertarianism before then, but that was really the first time in my life I had put the rubber to the wrong. Because if I didn't, I was going to become a hypocrite. And, you know, everyone hopes that they're the courageous guy. Everyone hopes that when the time comes, they'll be the one.

We have to be humble enough to admit that until we get tested, we don't know. And so I'd developed certain beliefs about what ought to be done in such a hypothetical scenario, and then all of a sudden the scenario was no longer hypothetical. And I had to speak up. I had to do something, and I'm sure we'll talk about that in a minute. but the context there is I've been a political commentator since 2009. I started when YouTube was only two years old.

I was independent from the very beginning and I just did it as a hobby. This thing that I did on the sign. And I was almost sort of perversely proud, like this false humility kind of thing of not caring about how many people watched. I wasn't trying to grow an audience. That's kind of vulgar of these people

who were trying to get more followers and no, no, I'm not like them. And then COVID hit and I began to speak out and say, guys, these lockdowns are a terrible idea. going to do more harm than good. My position for those that are wondering is let's protect those who are genuinely vulnerable and by March of 2020 we knew who they were we had the data out of Italy out of Sweden out of Israel out of other places age stratified divided up by comorbidities we understood who was genuinely at risk and for the rest of us it really wasn't that big a deal and it should have been treated as stuff so protect the vulnerable let everyone else go free and you very quickly

develop community that was my position and I began to speak and to say that and I caught as a blowback you won't run how to die, you don't care about people, you're being selfish, all the rest of you. And then someone, because I was the only public figure at the time who was actually speaking out, I wasn't the only person, but I was the only person who had a public profile. I'd been a commentator for 10 years by then. I got invited to speak in the very first anti-lockdown protest. Now, you've got to understand, Australia, as much as you know that Australia went crazy, you don't know how crazy.

And I can say that with authority, because every time someone watches my documentary, even people who were in Australia unless they were out there with us. If they stayed behind their closed doors and obeyed the rules, they watched the documentary and they come back to me and go, I'm so sorry, I had no idea

actually how bad people got out there. So we were in a situation where the government had decided to declare a state of emergency, which gives the state premier of Victoria. So obviously we're a country, we have a prime minister. The prime minister mostly did more to lock decks.

It was the state of Victoria under the Premier Daniel Andrews that really went full on tyrannical. And you can think of Victoria as the California story. Kind of one party state, progressive left, and worships government. The government is at the center of our society, and that's broadly true in most of Western culture, but it's certainly true in Victoria. And so Daniel Andrews, the Premier, was cast as this central figure in the battle of a lifetime against the virus of a lifetime.

Boy, he loved it. He was the central, he was the hero now. And we watched as people went mad. They divided it into two camps, basically. thing and you'd be familiar with Maslow's mind it means the sort of triangular thing at the bottom is bare survival oxygen food or shelter at the top is living your best life he calls it self-actualization where you've got purpose and meaning and belonging and you just can't wait to get up every day and get on with another one of the day the reality of life is most of us are kind of in a blob in

the middle of us and at any given moment in time there's only a handful of us that are desperate for survival and there's regrettably only a handful that are really living their best life most Now when you bring along lockdowns and from context, lockdowns in Australia meant every climate business that was not deemed to be essential was closed. We were in our homes for 23 hours a day. If we left our homes for that one hour per day, it had to be for a government-approved legitimate reason. If you went more than five kilometres, which is about 300 miles from your home, they would arrest you unless you had paperwork from the government to prove that you will allow to. And they would use another plate scanning as in your gallery. And if your home address

came up too far away, they'd pull you over. The playgrounds you would arrest. were closed everything you know schools were closed all of that they put up a thing called the ring of steel which was military checkpoints and all the aerial roads went to and out of Melbourne so four and a half million people were basically in an outdoor prison and you had to you know without any irony at all they were coming forward and saying papers please you know looking through your window and to give you some idea of just how heartless this actually was and implementation wise when elderly people went for their one hour of yard time for their war which was a permissible

reason to leave homes for exercise if they stopped and sat on a park bench they got arrested because you're no longer exercising. We don't do that exercise. People got arrested for taking their bins out after an empty and curfew. We didn't have a curfew for long that was a period there where we had one. And people got arrested because they took their bins

to the curb after APA. Who were they a danger to? Everybody else is inside. And so there was no rationality. There's no sense to the way. And the other thing that the government did is they shut down our parliament so that they weren't subject to parliamentary or questions in time or any sort of scrutiny or over so.

and they made protest illegal. Now, I'm not a protester from a man. I was raised as a pastor's kid, good conservative family, goody two shoes, two of thoughts. I look back and I cringe at just what I suck up. I really was. And, you know, I served in the military, never deployed.

I'm not trying to claim anything out of that. But like, I passed all the security checks and the psychological checks, and I did the good conservative thing and joined the army, and if I'd been deployed, I would have gone, thankfully I never was. But I ticked all those boxes all the way through.

And then COVID came along. And I knew in the depths of my soul that what the government was doing is wrong. Churches were being shut down. And to their shame, most churches were reading. Most churches didn't just obey. They supported it. And we'll get to that later, I'm sure. But I knew that my conscience demanded it of me that I speak out.

And then I was invited to speak in a protest. Now, that's different to speaking out online. It was the protests were illegal. This was a decision. And I knew if I go and do it. this my life will never be the same. I've no idea what it will look like. I don't know how dramatic change will be yet, but it will never be the same. And there was an enormous amount of fear in the media, an enormous amount of fear in a lot of people's hearts and minds, and to go against

that in a moment of panic. This is a risky thing to do. And that's why most of the public figures never spiked out. They weren't willing to pay the price, to lose the following, to get the hate, the sanction possibly be arrested. So I said yes to speaking of this protest. And we couldn't publicize it and promoted early because if we did it or get arrested before the day even came to so on the morning of the protest not long before i had to leave home it was one hours drive away from my home um i posted online and said there's a protest it's going to be in this location i'm going to be speaking and i got in the car and i drove and let me tell you on the inside it was like a washer machine i was churning churning the states weren't even that high yet i

reflect on it now because i now know how bad it got and i'm like how ridiculous to be worried about that one given that there were rubber bullets flying and armed cars in the streets and you had to dodge horses being charged through, you know, like, given that where we want to, people are being hospitalized in all kinds of horrific ways. You know, the very first person to get shot with the rubber bullet, because a friend of my, Matt Wilson, he lost four internal organs because of the blunt force trauma that just liquefies the cells and then they start to die. You know, like we got to that point.

So I look back at how nervous I was about that first one, and I kind of have to laugh at myself a little bit. But at the time, that was a really big decision. And I was right in the sense of my life was never going to say. So I churned and I turned and I drove and I parked and I could see the park where we were going to have us out there gathered and this little rally, not even a problem. And we say protest in Australia, we don't mean burning things down and smashing windows. We mean like a rally. That's happening.

But the police were already there. That's seen my Facebook posts and whatever else that anyone else had put on it down. And there was hardly anyone else there. And there were the police and there was no conflict yet. But the police were clearly, you know, they're on their radios and they're clearly expecting more units to come. There were six of them already. And they were expecting more. and I sat there parked across the road I hadn't been identified

the along and most of me was screaming delete the Facebook post turn around and drive on me and hug your wife I had a son we were expecting our second child at a time and and like don't do this again like just just keep this loop but I knew that if I did that then I would have proved to myself that I wasn't the person that stepped up and I don't want to have to leave I did with that for the rest of my life. So what I actually did was I called out my phone and I started a live streaming to Facebook.

And because everyone was locked down, no one had anything better to do. And I was known as a public figure. So I started live streaming and bang hundreds of people and 1,000 people, you know, or more, all jump on very quickly. And so what I did was I told them, okay, I parked across the road from the protest,

I'm getting out of the car shortly, blah, blah, blah, giving, you know, telling them what's going on. Actually, I was stalling until that number hit 1,000. And once there were 1,000 people watching internally, I was like, well, now, if I'm If it turns out, if I'm about to find out that I'm a coward, and that was my big fear, am I about to discover that I'm actually a cowled? Then the whole world's going to know they're going to account.

And I kind of bullied myself into actually getting out of the car, walking across the street, like walking into that protest. And by the time I got home, so the police actually, they didn't know what to do. This had never happened before. We were in totally uncharted territory. This level of human rights violation in Victoria, where protesting is illegal. That had never happened before. So what they actually did was they said to us, listen, we're going to come back at 11 o'clock,

and we're going to arrest anyone that's still here. We'd look at our watchers and went, that's an hour away. So what I just heard was we got to 1055. That's what I heard. And so that's what we did. And I gave a speech that day and a couple of others did as well. It's about 70 people showed up. And I drove home and I looked in that mirror so many times.

The way I can't even tell you. Then I got home and I jumped on my Facebook page and discovered that live stream had been viewed over 100,000 times. I had a barrage of hate in my inbox, in my emails. People found companies that I was associated with the, I'd done work with. They started leaving one-star reviews and review bombing them to try and destroy their reputation. You know, this company works with Nazis. Where did that even come from? Yeah, that accusation. Yeah, so the hate campaign really came on strong. And then the love followed

in the days that followed. It was this really interesting experience. And I had people saying to me, I followed you for 10 years because I thought you were ex. I thought you did your research and you understood and you're this and you're that. Now I know you're just an attention seeking whatever. I'm like, well, hang on, what if you were right the first time? And I'm still doing the research. And I'm still thinking things through and I'm still taking what I do very, very seriously. So that was the beginning. And because that meant so violent, I was sort of catapulted from, you know, minor public figure,

obscure sort of my own niche kind of thing, really into the public consciousness. And things really went crazy after that. I would imagine. We'll get into that. Actually, I interviewed a young lady from Australia that was also at the forefront of the COVID walkdown. Yeah. What was he was going to?

I cannot recall her name for the life from here. So there were a lot of amazing people. Let me try Monica Smith. Yeah, actually. Did she go to prison for a while? Yes. So that would have been Monica Smith. She did, I believe it was 21 days in solitary confinement.

That's the one, yes. She's amazing. She's a friend in one. Okay, excellent. Yeah. So I did hear a little bit, you know, I haven't read or senior documentary yet, but I do know some of what's going on, but even with that, I mean, some of the things you're telling me are,

just shocking and horrifying. And we thought we had it bad in the United States. And to be fair, if you were in the wrong place, you did. What I don't want to do is be seen to be minimizing other people's experiences because other people's experiences of lockdowns were also very, very bad for them in their own ways. You know, we saw footage coming out of California where they were using paintball guns to kind of, you know, just people on their balcony, just, you know, that's a horrific thing to have happening in your neighborhood.

And the fact that it was worse somewhere else doesn't diminish. that for those people. But what I think I'd love for people to understand is take what happened here, take the worst of what happened here, make it statewide, 4.5 million people in the city of Melbourne, 6 and a half in million in the state of Victoria,

and make it go on for over 570 days. Now, it wasn't exactly the same all the way through. It varied and there were moments actually where it really did ease up, but never for long. And you always lived with the tension and the knowledge. Literally, the Premier could come on the television at any moment in time and he did. I'll give you an example, Valentine's Day, February 14th is what it is

in Australia. I don't know if it's the same year. The day before Valentine's Day, there were a handful of cases. He would shut the state down before one case of one of office anywhere in the state. And there were a couple of cases that popped up and he shut down with basically zero notice. 7pm tonight we're doing into lockdowns again. So everyone, every business that had put out, you know, Valentine's Day events and taken bookings and take on prepayments, all of the florists, absolutely everybody that had said, finally, we get a moment. We have a moment to breathe. We can actually make some money. We can serve some coffees. We can serve some meals. We can cut some flowers. All of a sudden, all of that went to waste.

And so what was meant to be a beautiful moment of relief actually became the farm store for a lot of businesses. So even in the moments where we came out of lockdown, that tension was never thorough. Sure. You mentioned that you had a lot of hatred. And you know, I was, experienced hatred myself and also for a couple of lockdowns and protests that I organized. But I would imagine you also got some hate from Christians. Christians who would say things like you need to submit to government because that's what is told to us in Romans 13. Let me just, I'm just dealing with a family. So my family is loving with me. I do. It looks like I'm being rude, but my family are depending on me certain for some things and there's being

miscommunication. No problem whatsoever. Yeah. So I can I can press on that a little bit more. while you answer that text message. But yeah, I did see from my own experiences, the Christians will come after you if you dare to question or push back against God, you know, lessover. Yeah, and this was very, very evident. My own pastor of my church that I've been going to for a number of years by then,

I had a very good relationship with him and his wife and the team. My own pastor refused to continue worshiping. So he obeyed the lockdowns. Now, just as a matter of principle, And, you know, his argument was our lives are all this day. Just as a matter of principle, let's say it was the Black Death. Let's say, genuinely, one third to one half of everyone's going to die because of this thing.

Isn't that all the more reason to throw the church doors often? That's what the church did during the Black Lake. And put the speakers on the steps and crank the stereo to 11 and say, come in all you who are sinful for the Kingdom of Heaven might be closer than you think. You know, your judgment day might be closer than you think. That's what someone who believes they have the keys to salvation does when mortal life is threatened in terms of them. We get busy about eternal life.

If you take a moment like that where fear was everywhere and people were looking for hope and every back was turned, mental health counsellors were booked out for months and you had to meet them online. You couldn't talk to your MPs, you couldn't talk to your family, you couldn't visit each other, you couldn't see any of you people,

all your sports are locked down, all your bars and clubs and pubs, are locked down. You can't do any of the things that might normally otherwise have helped you to cope with a circumstance like this. And you're looking for somebody who has some kind of hope. Where is it different? And you're at the church and the door is locked. And there's a sign that says go talk to Central League, go talk to the government, gets him, get a welfare check if you need something. What are we saying in that one? I think it is genuinely one of the most shameful chapters. has God gained us an opportunity to show the world that we are different because we have hope?

And what we said to them was we're no different. We don't have any hope. You need to go and seek your salvation from the government. What a travesting. Now, I will say the silver lighting is this. God's given us that as an opportunity now for us to learn fault. And we know that some people stood tall and they should be grateful to God, that they had the insight and the wisdom and the theology to start.

stand told during that time. There are some people that showed themselves to be complete showants, and now we know, we know who they are. There were others who genuinely thought they were doing the right thing, but they got it wrong, and they have a chance to learn from that, to humble themselves and to say, okay, I now understand this in a way that I didn't be foreign and I'll do it different and do it better. My own palestown, I challenged him, I said, this is exactly the moment we need to be hope, we need to be worshipping, we need to be live streaming, we need to be showing that there is light, there is hope, we need to be a city on the hill. And he said to me, Tofa, I can't do what we want me to do.

Because if I do that, then the government will pull the funding from the soccer academy that we run for migrants. I said, you know, I thought I'd run my entire Bible, but obviously I hadn't, because I didn't get to that verse and said, go you into all the world and run soccer academies from migrants. I didn't, that, that verse must have slipped. I missed that too, yeah. And so needless to say, it was very evident from then that we weren't going to get along

really well. And so that, but that was the attitude of a lot of church. And I think about that principle that we cannot serve God and money. And what we saw the church do, so many churches, because they've got childcare centers or the government grants for these different things, they clung to the money and they despised to them. And that is something which, if you're a pastor, you're an elder and your church did that, can I encourage you to not be in the intransigent category that is, that is the

irredeemably corrupted and idolatists and worship full of government. And you instead be in a humble category that says, you know what we made some mistakes, we've got some things wrong, but we're going to go back to God, we're going to go back to our scripture and we're going to get ourselves right with God so that the next time we get tested, we pass. I mean, amen to that. And you ultimately ended up writing two books on this very subject. I love that.

You and I were talking off camera. And, you know, the Bible is just filled with story after story after story with all these heroes. of the Bible people that we imagine we'd be like. Yeah, yeah, that's right. Kind of that testing of being a coward or not. But all of them, they disobeyed the civil authorities. And that's why they're heroes

of the faith. That's literally why. So it's Old Testament, it's New Testament, it's early church, you can go right through, but I want to touch on a couple of specific things. So this second book of mine was born out of my first book. So after all the madness, after 18 months of madness and people being beaten up with hospitalized, I was arrested and I spent

years fighting criminally charges before they had dropped. Life went to, you know what. After 18 months, we finally made the Victoria Police back down. They actually issued a public letter to the government and to the media on the same day saying we're not doing it anymore. We're enforcing the lockdowns anymore. We're not stopping protests anymore. That we're done, we're out.

And that was because we had kept coming back, even as they escalated the violence, they put more of us in a hospital. We'd come back and do another protest. They'd put more of us in horse. They'd use heavier weapons. They'd use all kinds of things. Thankfully, no one was killed. We were at the point where I think they realized they were going to have to kill somebody in order to get a stock.

And even then, there was no guarantee that we would have. And they realized at that moment, we're not, we can't do that. So they finally backed down. The lockdowns ended by default. The government didn't declare the lockdowns over. They ended by default. And so I then directed a feature-length documentary called Battleground, Melbourne. You can watch it for free.

It's on my website. Tofofofield.com. Just click on the documentary tab and watch it then. And at 11 film, film, movie, AIDS, did very. very well, including an award from the Anthem Film Festival here at Freedom Festival, which is where we are now. And one of the things I realized, as I directed that documentary and obviously spoke to a lot of people, was we're very good at recognizing the righteousness of civil disobedience when

it happened a few decades ago, you know, 40 years ago, 60 years ago, be going, oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. But then when it happens in front of our face, there's this reflexive, no, no, no, that that can't really have to do with me. You're told, no, you're being irresponsible, you're being whatever, you're creating trouble. why are you causing trouble? And so I wrote my first book, which is titled Good People Break Bad Laws. And it's a defense of civil disobedience in the modern context, but it also explores some of the reasons why it looks wrong in real-telling. And I'll give you one example. It may

upset a few of your views, because I'm going to use a little bit of language here. I'm pretty confident. That's okay. So one of the chapters in my book is titled, in defense of arseals. By definition, the person who speaks up first is an outlier. They're a weirder. Everyone else is sitting and they're going, ah, that person's a widow. And if they're a widow in that thing, they've probably been a widow all their life. They are probably temperamentally predisposed towards being controversial, saying the thing that you're not supposed to say, holding an opinion that you're not supposed to hold. That probably means that they've got a history. They've got a backstory there. And what happens is when that person speaks up in something

that's right, the media, the politicians, their opponents from there that can dredge. up all that history. Go, oh, you don't want to be associated with this girl, so I actually, you know, this is one of the things that I cover in my book. It's like, I'm sorry, when you're in this situation, if you think, if you think you're in a fight, but you're picky about who you're allies are,

then you're not really in a fight yet. You don't know what it means to be in. It's well said. Okay, it's when you are desperate for another gun, no matter who is, is holding it. If they're pointing it in the right direction, then welcome, brother, you know, get along the same. to mention tofer when you become an enemy of the state they're going to dig up everything they can about you and

and make up stuff as well but i don't know about you but uh i know that i'm a wretched human being saved by christ that's right yeah so yeah they're going to dig stuff up about yeah and so look they didn't dig up anything on me specifically but they dug up stuff on all sorts of other people in the movement and they were doing it to try and divide us to try and make other people not be willing to join us and we have to be willing and able to look past all of that. And so I was dealing with these very real, very practical kind of aspects of why is it that civil disability has looked wrong in real time when it's so obviously right in hindsight. So that's, that book I explored your political incentives, the perverse incentives of politics and to do something reflects that politicians have where they just have

to do something. It doesn't even matter if it's the right thing or if it even worse. I just have to do something. And so forth. So I explored all of that. And then I got a lot of pushback from Christians saying how dare you call yourself a Christian in public and advocate? for civil this of evening. It's haven't you read Romans chapter 13? Haven't you read First Peter 2 verse 13? To which I replied yes and I've also read the rest of the book have you. Because

I get to Psalm 94 verse 20 which says that wicked rulers cannot be allied with you those who use the law to cause suffering. So by definition there is a form of wickedness that is done by the letter of the law. They can cross their teeth and dot their eyes but it is wickedness

in the earth of God. Now you mentioned before heroes of the faith Let's run through just a couple really obvious ones. Daniel is probably the most obvious. Now, I love Daniel because he doesn't just give us an example of civil disobedience. He gives us an example of civil disobedience done that. He was not a rabble-browser. He didn't run around him to start a revolution to, you know, blah, blah,

against Darius and blah, blah, blah. It explicitly says that he went back into his chamber and he prayed as he had done before. This is so important because people said to me, listen, you can disobey the lockdowns entirely. We don't have to be out there, you know, in public. blah blah blah. It's like, no, no, no. Give the appearance of putting the state government above God. Like, no. People say, oh, we're going to have a church meetings in secret. Okay, that's better than not having church meetings at all. But you realize you still look like you are putting the civil authorities above God.

That's the appearance. And Daniel's example was to not be a rabble rouser, to not be, he didn't say, I can't obey this law, so therefore I'm going to break all the rules. he was a decent upstanding citizen and he remained so but he said i will worship my dog this is caleb collier with church and state are you tired of your device spying on you ladies and gentlemen we live in 1984 your phones your tablets your smart televisions they all are spying on you and this is why i heavily endorse mark 37.com this is everything you need for your digital privacy phones, tablets, laptops, all of them are ghost protocoled. So that means that you are in charge of your own data. Just go to church and state.media, scroll over to shop, and hit mark37.com for all of your privacy needs.

Make sure to use that promo code, church and state. And we're back and thank you for staying with us. You're over at church and state.m. And we're going to go right back to this great interview. But real quick, let me plug one of our awesome affiliates. And Chris, I am thinking Patriot Pouch. It's a great company. I love this guy, Alexander Duncan.

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Daniel's example was to not be a rabble rouser, to not be, he didn't say, I can't obey this law, so therefore I'm going to break all the rules. He was a decent upstanding citizen, and he remained so, but he said, I will worship my God. And he did it as he had done before times. He didn't change. He didn't shut the shutters. He didn't change the time of day. He didn't lower his voice.

Everything was done as it was before. The simple statement was, my God, he's sort of. supreme over your rules. I'm going to do what my God requires me to do. And then when consequences followed, he accepted them with grace. And that's a really important principle that we see time and again with Christian civil disobedience. So Daniel is the prime example in my view of not only civil disobedience, but how it should be done. But there are so many other examples. Esther, when she's going to go before the king and ask him to save the lives of all of Jewish people, she says to her servant, go and instruct everyone in Susa to pray and to fast for three days. And I'll

I'll do the same thing. And afterwards, I will go to the king even though it is against the law. That phrase is there in the Hebrew. Even though it is against the law, that is premeditated law. You get King David, before he was king, when he was on the run, he eats the show bread, the temple bread, because he and his men were starving. Now, not only was he not put to death, because he was supposed to be, not only was he not put to death, when Jesus was pulled out by the Pharisees,

when his disciples had picked some meat and chew down it. a Sabbath. He said, on the Sabbath, that's right. So they're saying, oh, you can't be a righteous man. Your followers are doing work on the Sabbath. He pointed back to David eating the showbread as his justification for saying the Sabbath was not, man was not made for the Sabbath, but the Sabbath was made for men. And so Jesus actually used David's disobedience to God's law by the way. Yeah. Okay. As his theological defense of what his own disciples had just done. And we can go on. But let's mention the New Testament for a second. Paul and Peter, who respectively wrote first Pitch chapter 2 verse 13 and at Rhyman's 13.

So the word they use, the Greek word that they use, both of them, they use the same word. It's Hupertassel. Now what's interesting about Huper Tasso is that it's not the strongest form of obey. The strongest form of obeys Hupecuo. Similar word, related meaning, but that's the one if you're saying absolutely obey, you use Huper Kua. Now the funny thing is they both use Hupikuo elsewhere in their writers. They know the word. They know it exists. They choose not to use it in those passages that we quote all the time talking about obeying the government.

So they have made a choice. We are not talking about absolute obedience here. We're talking about something that is below absolute obedience. Now, there's a couple of crucial things. Firstly, Peter, when he was miraculously released from prison, which he was thrown in because he was disobeying the civil authorities, by the way, he didn't then go and hand myself into the nearest conference. shop, he went right back to doing the thing that locked him up for.

When Saul became Paul, he had his Damascus work moment and he found that Damascus authorities wanted to come and have a little work with him. He lowered himself over the wall in a basket at night and he ran away. That is not deferring to civil authorities. So both of them in how they lived actually broke how we preach their own theology. So something, there's a disconnect here and there's two disconnects. Number one, in the Greek language, it's not an absolute obey. What it means is a be orderly, be in good standing, be with

respectful is what Daniel did, right? It's what they are instructing is what Daniel did, not absolute obedience no matter what they're telling you to it. But there's another crucial point in both of them, if you go through them, there is a purpose statement in both of them. So for God is not a terror to, sorry, for the government, for the king is not a terror to good product, but to evil. So there's a purpose statement in there.

The king is meant to be, the king evil do is and rewarding those who do good. I think it's, I think it's first been chapter 2, verse 13, says um the so the purpose of the obedience i'd have to i'd have to call it up in the the front of it quite exactly but the purpose of the obedience is for the the the sake of the name of the lord jesus christ and for the sake of doing good um and the for the king is the lord's minister for the punishing of those who do evil and the rule of those you took good that is a purpose state now are you a dad yeah yeah so you have authority on your kids yeah but you don't have

absolute authority absolutely you can't sell the for example yeah right there's also things you can't do so god says you're in charge you have authority if you then turn around go right i can do whatever i want you are now stepping outside of it's your fact but do you have any authority outside of the authority you'd be by god no of course not so when god builds a purpose statement into a delegation of authority that is a limit he's saying they i am i've put the government in charge for this purpose and if they step outside that purpose well that's where something like someone when he comes in wicked rulers cannot be your friends and how do we define they use the Lord for us suffering.

Absolutely. So, Acts 529 is another verse. I say it a lot on my show here. Because, you know, the disciples, the apostles are directed by the government, say, you know, we're going to worship Caesar. We're going to obey the laws. And their response is we obey the commandments of God or the commandments of man. Yes.

That's very specific. It is. It is. I apologize to make sure. We can mix up regarding lunch for the kids. And that's a, when you've got three young kids traveling with a bit of a bit drama. And this is the point. We must obey God rather than man in as much as possible live in peace with all men. That is our default position. Thing is we have governments

today that are not making it possible to live in peace with men. They are deliberately going out of their way to make sure you have to choose between obeying them or obeying God. In Australia, I don't have a US example specifically, but in the state of Victoria or in Australia, if you if someone comes to you with gender confusion, there's a thing called the change suppression practices ban. And what they're trying to do is stop you from discourage and someone from getting sex change. So if someone comes to you with gender dysphoria, and that is simply a brain that's telling them they were born in the wrong body, and there are people who genuinely have the

experience of a brain that is like, no, you were born in the wrong body. Now, that's a lie from the devil, but they're having the experience of that. And if they come to you, you don't even have to be a pastor, if they come to you, and you do anything other than affirm and encourage their progression towards surgery and hormones and everything else, than you have engaged in change suppression. That is a crime. This is not a civil offence. This isn't a case of, I'm going to sue you because you didn't accept my identity or what have you.

It's the government is going to step in, prosecute you criminally, even if the person you spoke with was happy. They don't have to want you to be prosecuted in order for you to be prosecuted. The government just has to find out that you're going to be prosecuted. you did it and they can prosecute you and you can go to prison for that. Now, to my knowledge, no one's been prosecuted yet. But understand, you can now be a Christian in the state of Victoria or in Australia in the same rate that you can be a Christian in China.

You can call yourself a Christian, you can show up to a building called the church, you can sing songs, you can read a book called the Bible, but the sermon that's preached, the prayers that have prayed, the Bible that's read, it all has to contain the government approved theology for us. We're literally there now. Yeah, and the United States is, especially in more these progressive states in California has passed similar laws yeah to where yeah if you do anything if I mean the candidate's happening right now you can reach that homosexuality is a

sin yep if you preach from Romans one yeah you can be thrown in prison yep yeah and so what we've got is a situation so I'd like to bring us back to second Samuel 2nd Samuel chapter 8 the passage where they come to Samuel and they say we want a king It's the chapter 8 of one of the Samuels. I can't remember at the top of my head. So the children of Israel, they've had the system of judges. Now, this is a system that God ordained for. God could have designed any system of government that he wanted.

He had a blank slate. And it was a representative government. Well, what's interesting was that it was representative because the heads of families and so forth were sort of pushed up. It emerged out of their time in the wilderness when Moses was swamped and he couldn't keep up with judging all the people. Chethro is his father-in-law. That's right. He actually advised it.

Yes. sort of codified it, said, yep, this has my stamp of approval. But what God gave them was enough laws that you could read it in less than three days. How long would it take to little the laws in America, right? I would never want to tackle that endeavor. It's no possible. You know, how perverse that we have a system that says ignorance of the law is no excuse, and yet ignorance is inevitable. It's not possible to be anything other than ignorant when you have this many laws. Plus, you'd have to know all of the court precedents to know how they're all interpreted, plus you'd need to know all of the regulatory findings and everything else.

It's impossible to not be ignorant. Now, I put it to you, that is an inherently perverse and inherently evil system of law and system of government. That's not what God does own. What God said was, here's enough laws. You can read him in about three days or less. And here's a system of judges to arbitrate disputes between

you and when someone's accusing somebody else of having broken my laws. And notice there was no mechanism for writing more laws. So God was saying, these are all the laws you need, and these are all the laws you're ever going to need. You don't need to write more law, you don't need the ability to do that. I'm not building that into your system.

Now of course the children of Israel knew better. So 400 and something years later they go to Samuel, we want a king. Now the problem was real. The problem was perverse judges and Samuel's two sons were perverse judges, taking bribes and engaged in all sorts of nonsense. But instead of going back to God and saying, God, we've sinned, and we've ended up with unholy, unrighteous judges, because that's one of the punishments of sins,

and you get ruled by wickedness. Instead of doing that, they said, God, your system's brought. Your system's wall. We've got a better idea. We're going to copy what all the other nations are doing. We want a king such as the other nations have. They were specifically explicitly referencing the surrounding countries. Now God's response when Samuel comes to him is what's crucial here. God says to Samuel, this is the son of sin that their ancestors committed in the wilderness when they made golden cards and worshipped them. That's idolatry, right? Now I grew up on Sunday school and I used to think, you know what God, we probably don't need all 10 commandments. There's one that seems a bit redundant these days.

this whole bowing down to Hydra's thing, maybe they needed that 100, 200, 500 years ago, maybe they need that in parts of Asia or something, I don't know, but in the Western world, in a sophisticated civilized country to be had, we don't have idolatry. You can probably just cut it down to 9th commandments, a little bit easier to remember. I've grown up since then, of course, and I realized now, idolatry would have to be one of the number one sins at a cultural level and regrettably in a lot of our churches as well. And our idolatry today takes the exact same form as what God all about in that passage in Samuel. It is the worship of government. It's saying God will not

supply all my needs. God won't protect me. Think of all the Jehovah names, Jehovah, Jehovah, Jehovah, Nis, Jehovah, Jehovah, etc. Every single one of them is a promise. I will provide for you. I will meet your needs. I will defend you. You can take refuge in me. I will give you wisdom. I will give you justice. These are all promises that God gives us. What are the things we look to government for now? All of those exact same things. And more. And more. That's exactly right but all of those exact things that god promised us and so what happened was was the children of israel said god we don't actually trust you we think we've got a better idea we want a king to do these things for us he's going to go out and lead us into battle who did god say was going to lead them

into battle and now what happens is god then says to the children of israel oh he says to samuel warn the children of israel that this is what the king who will rule over him do he's going to take a tent of your grain and tent of your wine and your oil and you know he's going to take your kids to be bakers and perfumers and they're going to be in his military and his chariots and 10% of this and 10% of that and you yourselves will become his slaves now what's crucial here i believe is god is equating 10% of slavery now it is a little bit of a long got a draw people will read the past and be like yeah it's not a direct connection like i see what you're going with that but i think you meant that they become like actual slaves like 100% of the time i disagree on this basis when god said to the children of

Israel, you're my people, and to prove that you're my people, you're going to give me, what did he ask for? 10%. 10%. So if God says 10% is enough to prove that you're my people, and then he says, that king's going to take 10%, you're going to be his slaves. Now, isn't it funny that today we would give anything to be down to only 10%? Oh my gosh, yes. In a heartbeat, all right? So what we've created is a monster today. Now, what God was saying, now, God was saying the kingdom take 10% of his 10% of that who gives the increase where did that wheat come from the oil come from the this is god's bounty this is god who has caused the harvest and so what god is saying in my view and if i can paraphrase the word of god so obviously test this with your own spirit

and you know don't just take my word for real yeah but i would summarize this entire concept as the government the idol that you are building with your own hands will take from you the gifts that I've given to you made for me with my hands. And boy, we see that today, don't you? Well, we see that once again in lore and just diving into this a little bit more, not just government, because we now worship church leaders as well. They become an idol force as well. It's not so much of, I believe in the living God, it's I follow Joel Osteen or I follow Rick Warren.

Yep. And most of them are factless leaders. Look, I'm not really across the American landscape, if I'm honest. So I'm not going to make any particular comments of any specific people, except to say that you need to be very, very careful. Was it Paul warned explicitly? You know, this one says I am of Peter, and this one says I'm of Apollos, and this one says I'm of whatever. Be very careful.

Be very, very careful. The one thing that Jesus told us to be proud of, to be boastful of, is that our names are written in the book of life. When the disciples came back to Jesus after Jesus had empowered them and sent them out and he said to them, you can speak to devils and they'll obey you, you can speak to the sick and they'll be healed.

They go out and it works, it happens. They come back super pumped, super excited. Jesus, do you know, the thing you said, it actually happened? He's like, yeah, I'm kidding. And he says, don't be excited that the devils obeyed here. Be excited that your name is written a little bit of life. Amen.

All right? And so this is the call that we have to come back to every single time. And if you're getting excited because that man's ministry is leading to healings, okay, that's fantastic, but it's not the man. That man's ministry's got incredible insight and wisdom and you've got to just follow him. He's the only one with it. Well, well, well, you'll hold up. Now we've got a problem with Jesus instructions to us, and we've got a problem with Paul's instructions to us. And if that person is accepting and welcoming that kind of hero worship in the context of being a pastor or a Bible teacher or anything else, then I don't

think they themselves are actually practicing what scripture teachers with regard to to that kind of humility with his rewards. So we do, we need to be discerning, we need to be careful. God does use individuals. He raises up people to do remarkable and great things, and we should honor that. You know, the labor is worthy of his hire. The man of God should be respected. Of course, I'm not advocating for anything less than respect. But we need to be very careful that our heart is focused on God and our faith in his place to Jesus Christ. I think that's so well said. And in a great way, I know we got to be very way. We got to be very be cognizant time excuse me but I think it's a great way to end

the interview and I so appreciate you coming on church and state I want my my followers to follow you thank you so please the website once again yes so totofiel.com and just go to the documentary tag and watch my documentary completely for free and then at toafield on all my socials I put out videos pretty regularly I'm a mostly Australian focused political commentator so a lot of it's going to be kind of like I don't know what's going on here but I am branching out more on I'm on a nine-week speaking tour of the US, and the entire point is to begin to speak more into the US. For better or for worse, the US does lead the world in a lot of ways.

And so fighting for Australia is a bit of an uphill battle when you're downstream of another culture. So I'm trying to get myself into the American context a lot more. And I don't really want to be in the weeds of the minutiae of politics. I'll let Americans deal with what happened in the news today and all the headlines and the clickbait and all that. I want to be getting into the real meat of things, the principles, of what actually changes history. And that, of course, is number one, God, Jesus Christ, herself. But number two, it's then how that then flows into our culture, into our attitudes, into our economics, into things like civil disobedience and then how we respond when government does overstep its boundaries.

That's the level of which I'm playing and speaking, and I'm really grateful to you for sharing a platform with me to do that. Absolutely. Yeah, and honestly, like, with the emphasis on Australia, you know, it was bad in the United States. States but it was much worse in Australia it was it was the canary in the coal mine and I guess the last question I have for you here is personally I don't think they're done I think they saw the the tyranny they were able to enact through this pandemic I think they're going to come back with another so I think it's going to be done a little differently I know in australia if I would turn around now and try and do another harsh lockdown Australians have done we're not we're not we're not playing that game I think what they're trying to accomplish is an effect

effective lockdown through cost of living. So you will diminish your life, not because they told you couldn't leave your hours, but because you ran the numbers and said, I can't afford to drive to X, Y, Z, there you go. And that enters into the 50-minute city. Correct. And so it won't necessarily be hard-border. I think they've realized that that game's kind of up.

People have kind of woken up to that. And so if they can just keep driving cost of living out of control, people will diminish their own lives. And they won't actually have to bring in rules, necessarily. necessarily in the tool pockets what they want it makes sense if it costs you know gases $20 a gallon or something maybe you're not going to grandma's at the next down correct and then if they do decide to actually enacted into enforce it and putting cameras and limits and so forth they can then portray it as level in

the playing field we this doesn't affect you because you're too poor to drive that far anyway it's just those rich people that aren't doing the right thing like what you heard is class well we're correct we're just we're just leveling the playing field so that the fact that they've got money doesn't mean that they have an unfair advantage and they get to live in a way to give them. Yeah, that's that I think is how the next sort of play is is going to come at. I think it has already started in a very real sense. But we also have to remember that God is sovereign and he wins in the end.

And I don't say that with a fatalism. Some people say that with a fatalism of, oh, well, let's just not bother because Jesus wins in the end. We are called, and our calling stands, regardless of what you think about in time theology, regardless of how long you think it's going to be before something or other happens, we have a great commission and we are instructed to raise godly children and to raise up generations to to make disciples of all men those those those those that commission applies no matter what and so can i encourage you don't get too quiet up in in the minutia don't black pill yourself with despair thinking that everything's going to be terrible and bad and the mysterious they

have already won they already knew what was going to happen they you know I one last thing one of the things that annoys me and it annoys me especially now because as I'm beginning to get some traction in my work there are people who used to support my work and and now they're turning because they say oh they wouldn't have let him get so big unless he'd sold out yeah yeah and so this attitude of the they and this belief that they have everything I'm in control means that nothing good can ever happen to you right because the minute something good happens in your movement someone gets some breakthrough someone gets some traction, you ostracize them out of your movement, you condemn them as the enemy. Irrespective of whether it's true or not, you've just got this preconceived notion that

nothing good will ever happen. And therefore, if it does, we have to ostracize that person because they must be something bad about what they've done. God is good. God wins in the end. And that doesn't mean that we're going to be losing, losing, losing, losing all the way up until that happens. We have a call. We have a God who is mighty. And if the Lord builds the house, they labor, unless the Lord builds the house, they labor in vain, the building. If you're not working with God, you're wasting the time. But also, if God be forced, none can stand against us. And from the bigger picture, from the eternal picture from God's perspective,

he is a giver of good gifts. And not every gift looks, not every gift that looks good from eternity, looks good within the time. What's the name of the author of Amazing Rouse? You guys would be screaming. I know the name and I'm forgetting it, but the story is absolutely incredible. Correct. So his story was his mother taught him about God until he was just about to have his seventh birthday,

and she died, I believe, with tuberculosis. Then he ended up in basically a godless home and ended up moving into the Navy at 11, or into the, sorry, a sailor at 11, ended up working a slave ship, became a particularly brutal, merciless slave trader, to the point that he was abandoned, I believe in Africa somewhere, and they tried to sell him into slavery in Africa, and he managed to get out of that, and he got on somebody else's ship, who sailing's moment they were nearly shipwraged and he cried out to God in that moment he remembered

what his mom taught him and he quiet out to God in that moment and he went on to write the Him amazing Grace. Now imagine an angel visits his mom when she's pregnant, says I have some amazing news. Your son is going to be an incredibly famous hymn writer and for hundreds of years after his death people will see his hymn in moments of crisis from the depths of despair when they're locked up in a prison when they're lost in a jungle they will find hope in that hymn

and thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands maybe millions of people will be saved over hundreds of years because of the hymn your son writes. Would you like that to be the story of your son? Yes. You know, here I am your faithful servant of course. Okay, the fine print. The fine print is

in order to make that happen, in order for him to reach a depth of despair so deep that he will write a hymn that powerful, he has to become a man so unimaginably evil. And that means I can't let you be his mum because you're bringing him up too well. So I'm going to have to take you home early so that your son falls into despair and sin and crime and becomes one of the most despicable human beings imaginable, responsible for the deaths of innocent people. And then I'm going to nearly kill him and then all that good stuff will happen but you won't be able to see any. Now, does that make God a bad God?

Was that a bad gift? From a human perspective, and I'll guarantee you, her husband, when she's dying and their child is not even seven years old, her husband is praying, saying, God, why are you doing this to me? How could you cause me to suffer like this? Why? And God's in heaven going, mate, I wish you could see it from my point of years. That was a good gift.

So guys, whatever you've done through, God is good. He's got good gifts for you. Trust his eternal perspective. That's an incredible word of encouragement. I really appreciate you sharing that for the audience. Thank you, Tofer. We're all appreciate it. All right.

There you go. Ladies and gentlemen, Tover Field, an amazing Australian patriot. I think this episode serves as a warning really throughout the world. Because as I've said on the show multiple times, I do believe that they'll do another pandemic on us. They were able to achieve far too much tyranny to not come at us again with something similar. And it's really going to be up to us. It's going to be up to us, people who are patriots who love freedom on whether or not we're going to submit to another lockdown like this.

I, for one, I never will. Obviously, Tofer, my guest, won't either. Church and State is brought to in part by Colonial, I Spokane, Independent Agent's, Finders Insurance, and to Mark37.com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with the Church and State podcast. Ladies and gentlemen, I want all of you to go to Galileo.com. You need to stay connected no matter what comes our way.

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