The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Church & State -The Risen Ministry with Dr.Tim Chaffey

Episode Date: May 7, 2026

Dr. Chaffey wrote the book on the Nephilim. He joins Caleb to go in depth into the controversy. https://risenmin.comChurch and State is brought to you by,  YOU!  Visit us at: https://churchandstate.media where you can support us by donating directly and find links to shop with our affiliates.Get our merch at https://standupnowapparel.com/partner-church-and-state/   Learn how to Protect Your Wealth against inflation at: www.BH-PM.com and tell them Church and State sent you.Support Church and State today by shopping at www.MyPillow.com using our coupon code: “CHURCHANDSTATE”.Our links are on link tree: https://linktr.ee/churchandstate                    Subscribe to our Locals Community (churchandstate1.locals.com)   Follow us on Rumble (@ChurchandState1776) https://rumble.com/user/ChurchandState1776    X(twitter) (@1churchandstate) https://x.com/1churchandstatefacebook (churchandstate1776) https://www.facebook.com/ChurchandState1776   SubStack (churchandstate.substack.com) https://churchandstate.substack.com/     *Help fund our fight against tyranny: Buy from our affiliates and tell them Church and State sent you. *Tune in on NRBTV Tue-Fri 1:30 PM Pacific! Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/prepper-broadcasting-network--3295097/support.BECOME A SUPPORTER FOR AD FREE PODCASTS, EARLY ACCESS & TONS OF MEMBERS ONLY CONTENT!Red Beacon Ready OUR PREPAREDNESS SHOPThe Prepper's Medical Handbook Build Your Medical Cache – Welcome PBN FamilySupport PBN with a Donation Join the Prepper Broadcasting Network for expert insights on #Survival, #Prepping, #SelfReliance, #OffGridLiving, #Homesteading, #Homestead building, #SelfSufficiency, #Permaculture, #OffGrid solutions, and #SHTF preparedness. With diverse hosts and shows, get practical tips to thrive independently – subscribe now!Newsletter – Welcome PBN FamilyGet Your Free Copy of 50 MUST READ BOOKS TO SURVIVE DOOMSDAY

Pocan Valley could become a sanctuary city of a different kind. Native Councilman Caleb Collier says that this proposal... I'm proposing that the city of Spokane Valley issue of proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Today on Church and State, there is in ministry with Dr. Tim Chafee. Hello Christian Patriots and welcome to Church and State where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Collier, once again, your favorite, far-right shock-jok.

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church and state 1776 at proton.me. With that, let's get into it. Now I am excited to bring on our guest, Dr. Tim Chafy. He is an incredible individual. He works as a content manager. for the Attractions Divisions at Answers in Genesis. That's right, the Creation Museum, the Ark Encounter.

Many of you have probably been there. He's married, does incredible work as an athlete doing some, well, jogs, I suppose, is best to say. He's also 6'8, and we're going to be discussing the Nephilim on today's episode. So, Dr. Tim, it is awesome to have you on the show. Caleb, thanks for having me on. Looking forward to it. And yeah, 6.8, that's one of the reasons why I got into this topic in the first place. People kept calling me a giant or Nephilim all the time.

And I thought, let me see what that's really all about. Yeah, it makes sense. So you were sharing off air that because your name's Tim, it was Neffatim or something like that. Yeah, my boss at Answers and Johnson is Ken Ham, our CEO and founder, he jokes by he called me Neffel Tim. But I guess since I brought up AIG, I should mention that what we're going to be talking about today is, something that as a ministry we don't get into. We have differences of opinion on that, and that's fine. We still get along great and work for the ministry's mission that God has called us to do. But we are allowed to talk about this on our own, and that's what we're doing.

I got to say, I love that. I think more Christians need to have that. These secondary issues, you know, these aren't primary. You know, this doesn't, what your belief is about the Giants isn't going to, you know, God's not going to look at it and say, well, you don't get into heaven now. No, we can have conversations and still be friends at the end of the day. Right. I mean, I wouldn't be worried about it because I got the right view, but I'd be worried for my friends if it were. I love that. I absolutely love that. Let's break that down a little bit because there are two primary schools of thought when it comes to discussions about the giants or the giants.

And kind of going off of, well, going off of Genesis 6'4 there. You and I believe that the fallen angels came and made it with humankind. and created these hybrid, half-angelic, half-human beings called the Nephilim. And then there are others who believe that, no, this is just the lineage of Seth, and they weren't supposed to mate with, you know, the, I guess, Keynes' ancestry, right? Yeah, that's the, probably the next most popular view in, you know, for lay-level Christianity. There's a third view that's pretty popular among scholars, and that is that the, the sons of God who took the daughters of men.

The sons of God would be like rulers or nobles who were taking women into their harems and so then their sin would be polygamy and that's what's being condemned there. So that one's pretty popular among some scholars

and so really there's three views but for a lot of people in the public it's the two that you outlined. So I mean it does lead to the question of how did the other two belief systems, how did giants emerge out of this? Yeah, and that's a great question, because they don't really have an answer for it. What they do is they look at Genesis 6-4, and a lot of our English Bibles are rather ambiguous here. For example, here is the New American Standard,

says there were giants, that's the word Nephilim right there, there were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came into the daughters of men, and they bore children to them, those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown. And so they look at it and say, well, the giants were already there when this was taking place. And it doesn't say that they were the result of these unions between the sons of God and the daughters of men. Actually, the Hebrew does. The Hebrew word translated as when is the word ashare. And if we look at our various Hebrew grammars, they'll say that in this instance, because of the construction, it refers to an event that happened in the past and at regular or irregular

intervals since then. So in other words, whenever, if we read it that way, then it clarifies that whole passage about who the Nephilim were. There were giants on the earth in those days and also afterward whenever the sons of God came into the daughters of men. So the Nephilim are the result of those unions. And yeah, the sons of Seth mating with the daughters of Kane doesn't produce giants. No, it would not. Yeah. And Then there are a lot of other problems with that view as well. I mean, the way that they use the word man in those first four verses. And now it came to pass when men began to multiply on the face of the earth.

That's mankind in general. That's referring to all mankind. And daughters were born to them. So daughters born to all mankind. Then it says that the sons of God saw the daughters of men. Then they're like, oh, the daughters of men. That's the line of Cain. No, the daughters of men in verse two is the same as the daughters who were born to men in general in verse one.

There's no reason why you should think of them as being all daughters of men in verse one. And then suddenly, now it's just this line of cane. And then in verse three, you're back to all men. In verse four, they're back to just the men in just this one line. And so they're kind of picking and choosing what they want the terms to mean rather than just reading consistently. Sure. I mean, that's, to me, when I read through the Word of God, this is what makes the most sense to me. and certainly with, you know, giants emerging and really being a terror upon the earth,

I don't see any other way that this happens unless fallen angels mate with humankind. And really, it also speaks to, you know, Satan's schemes. You know, Satan and the angels that joined him, the third of angels that joined him, ever since really the beginning we can read in the Garden of Eden, Satan has been on this destructive path to create chaos, to destroy what God intended, and certainly, for in my view, mating with humankind and creating these hybrids that are not actual God's creation, I think that adds up. Yeah, it seems to be part of the effort there in Genesis 6.

It doesn't really give us a motive other than it tells us in verse 2. they saw the daughters of men were beautiful, so whether it's lust or something is involved. But that doesn't mean there can't be other motives as well. But I think you hit on something important there. If I can take a minute here to try to explain, this might be a little confusing for some people to think through. But when we think about how to read Genesis 1, well, really all of Genesis, not just Genesis 1 through 11, which one came first in terms of, like think of the original audience. the original audience for this book would have been the Israelites at or shortly after Mount Sinai,

maybe during that 40 years of wilderness wandering. And right after Sinai, the spies go into the land and they see the anachem. Names three of them in Numbers 13, the narrator tells us that they're there. So Moses tells us that the spies saw three giants in the land, then tells us later on at the end of Numbers 13 that the anachem are of the Nephilim. So they know there's giants in land. Deuteronomy 2 and Deuteronomy 3 tells us that. talks about Aug, the king of Bashan,

tells us that there are giants in and around the land. So when Moses is writing Genesis, and he says the Nephilim were on the earth in those days, he's talking about before the flood, and also afterward, so after the flood, well, they knew that because they're seeing them. Oh, like the Refi'em. Yeah, actually, the Bible tells us that Og was the last of the Refayim.

That's another word that means giant, but then there were other giant tribes as well, the M-Eem, the Zamzumim, the Bible talks about them. The Amorites are described later on in Amos as being, you know, their height as like the oaks, or describes them as giants as well. So there's giants throughout the land and all along the border of the land. And when Moses writes that passage in Genesis 6 about the sons of God the Nephilim, his original audience, the Israelites, would have known exactly who he's talking about

because they know Nephilim means giants and they know that's what it's referring to. doesn't mean fallen ones or something like that that a lot of people today think it means. And they know who the sons of God are because Deuteronian 32 also mentions them in two different places. And it's referring to angelic beings. So that original audience would have understood this passage as being about these angelic beings who rebelled against God and made it with women and produced giants. And it happened before the flood and it happened after the flood. Yeah. And that actually leads me to a question that I was going to ask you.

there's a lot of confusion as to how there was a second incursion. If some of the giants survived the flood, if they came down a second time and made it again, what are your thoughts on that? I think Genesis 6-4 gives us the clue that we need. If we understand Acher to be translated as whenever, the Nephilim were on the earth in those days before the flood, and also afterward, after the flood, whenever the sons of God came into the daughter's of men and board children to them. These were the mighty men of old men of renown. So it's whenever they did that, which would be before the flood and after the flood. The Bible is pretty clear that only

eight people survive the flood. And it's Noah, his wife, their three sons, and then the daughters-in-law, Noah's daughter's-in-law. So they're definitely not on the ark at all. And it seems like part one of the purposes of the flood is to wipe them out. So why would God allow somebody with that genetic makeup on the ark? So that doesn't really make a whole lot of sense. But if we understand Genesis 6'4 as saying whenever instead of when, I think we have our answer to it. It's really interesting. So theoretically, it could happen again.

I think that it could, well, possibly. The one Peter, First and St. Peter and Jude tell us that the ones who were engaged in that are being held in chains or in prison until the day of judgment. And so those ones are not able to do it again. Is it possible that there are other angels with the same capacity, the same abilities that are able to do that? Maybe, but I don't know that it's necessary. Because if you think of back then, it seems as if they're trying to prevent God's word from coming to pass. So like you talked about this before the flood, you know, corrupting this corrupting humanity, so that God's not going to bring about his promise that there would be a seat of the woman who is going to destroy the serpent.

But after the flood, you have God telling Abraham in Genesis 15. He says that they're at the Oaks of Mamry, which is in Hebron. And he tells them, your descendants are going to go down to a land that's not their own. They're going to serve them and be oppressed for 400 years. Of course, that's talking about Egypt. And then I'm going to bring them back here because the iniquity of the Amarites is not yet complete. So God's going to judge this group of people, the Amorites. But not yet.

He's being patient. But he's in Hebron when he says that. when the spies go into the land and Moses tells us that they saw three of the giants, three of the Antichem, where were they? In that been in Hepburn, yeah. Yeah, it's almost like Satan, because Satan can't know God's plan until God announces God's plan. And I think he could have heard what God said to Abram and thought, I'm going to make sure

that that doesn't happen. And so it seems like he puts the headquarters of the Nephling right there in Hebron, the one place where God says he's going to be. bring him back. And it's not like Satan can thwart God's plan. It seems like he's trying to. But back then, how did you win a battle? Well, who's ever the biggest and the strongest, right? Now, if, you know, if our enemy had a giant or something, big deal, we launch a cruise missile or something else from hundreds of miles away, it's more about here and technology than it is about brute strength. So I don't know that it would even be necessary to do something like that

today. Well, let me ask you a question about present times, because the U.S. government is quite the enigma for me and for many others. But for the longest time, if you brought up aliens, UFOs, anything like that, the government was massive cover-ups. It was a weather balloon, nothing to see here, kind of a mentality. And just as of late, they've really opened it up. And now they're declassifying things and saying, yes, you know, we have had encounters with UFOs, with other worldly beings.

to me personally when I look at this I see demonic if somebody is dealing with an alien entity you're dealing with a demon and I stand firm on that but do you see the potential for another incursion here with the nephalum with these demonic entities as we potentially maybe come into the end of days um not necessarily I mean I do agree that some of the the UFO alien activity, all of that kind of stuff that people report, I don't think all of those are just weather balloons. I don't think they're all just swamp gas or something. Is that what it was in men and black? I don't think it's just all that.

I think there are times where people just see something that has nothing to do with demons and they just don't know what it is. But I think there are enough reports, especially with the abduction scenarios, where people claim to have been abducted. but when they cry out to Jesus for help, suddenly it instantly stops. And so that would lead me to believe that, yeah, there are some of these cases where it is demonic. And I look at that as more of a, I mean, it could be similar to what we're talking about. But I think that Satan, in a sense, views himself as having two roles, prevent people from becoming saved, from getting saved, and those who are saved make them ineffective. And so if you can distract them, you can get them focused on anything other than Jesus, do that.

And for people who are, you know, maybe even considering Christianity and then suddenly, oh, wait, are there aliens from other planets? Well, then we're not all that special. And the Bible seems to imply that we're special, that this is where God made man. But if there's creatures all over the place, then maybe it really is just made up in the Bible. But I don't believe that there is life from other planets. if God wanted to do that, he could, but there's no indication in Scripture that he did anything like that. Earth is the focal point of his plan. He made it before he made the other planets.

And this is where he sent his son to die to become a human being to die for human beings. And so I don't think there's any reason to think that there truly are aliens, but what people, I think, sometimes are seeing maybe is something that probably is demonic. Yeah, I love what you just said there. And in fact, I subscribe to a geocentric universe. I believe we truly are the center of the universe. And the universe is expanding away from a focal point. And I believe that's us, that we are that focal point. And I base that off of the Bible. Okay. Well, I would have a different view, but obviously that's not a salvation issue where we have to actually communicate each other because we have a different understanding of how our... our solar system or the universe itself works. And yeah, it's, I think within either system, we recognize that God's focus is here and Christ is our savior and that the devil wants to prevent him from being or prevent him from saving people.

Absolutely. Let me ask you another question about this because my personal belief on this and, you know, I'm going to be basing it off the Bible, but there might not be things in the Bible that point directly to this. But I believe that they're in the hellscape, I suppose, is the best way to put it. There are fallen angels. And then I believe that demons are actually the disembodied souls of the Nephilim. What do you thoughts on that? Yeah.

So that was a, that view was common in the early church. And it's somewhat common today among people who hold this view that we're talking about, that the sons of God were rebellious angels who made it with women. So I'm not convinced that that's accurate that the demons are something different than the fallen angels. I see it as a possibility. I've got a friend who, Doug Van Dorn, maybe you know who that is, wrote a book called Giants, and he has a whole chapter laying out the case for that. And in my book, I have one chapter where I show like his four or five best arguments and respond to those.

One of the reason why I don't subscribe to that is because the word that you mentioned earlier, the Refayim, in the historical books, so from when's the first time it shows up in Deuteronomy, I think, from Deuteronomy through First and Second Samuel, First and Second Chronicles, when that word appears, it's referring to giants on the earth. You know, like Goliath is called Arafa, which is singular for Rephaim. And so that word is referring to the physical giants who are on the earth. But when it's in the prophets, which were written after those books, that word appears several times. And each time it's referring to spirits who are in the underworld in Shaill that are waiting for somebody to die. It's like a taunt against somebody like, hey, you thought you were going to be. here, but instead you're going to be brought low and oh, you remember the Refaim,

you're going to run into them down there. So it doesn't seem like their spirits are roaming the earth and free to possess people. I think that they are in shale and not running around. But I want to be dogmatic, and I think there's a lot of things about the afterlife and that whole relationship between is shale different from Hades or is the same thing? is there are different parts of Haiti. I mean, there's just a lot that the Bible gives us a little hints at, and then it's like, can we have another book that explains that in more detail,

but we don't get that. Excellent. Okay. So with these giants that are written about in the Bible, and including you brought up Peter and Jude, they're talking about it as well, do you believe that humanity was able to basically exterminate that bloodline entirely, Or is there still, I guess as people would mate, you know, those attributes that they are described with these giants would lessen and less and lessen.

Is there still people potentially out there with Nephilim bloodlines in them? Yeah, it's a good question. I don't think so. And again, being six foot eight, I know we joke before going on, five fingers, even though the Bible didn't say that all of them were six fingers. There's one who's described that way, six fingers and six toes. But they disappear from the pages of the scripture right after David's time. So David's mighty men kill some of Goliath's brothers or descendants, depending on how that's translated. And from that point on, they're not really mentioned again unless, like you talked about, the demons in the New Testament,

if those are the disembodied spirits of the Nephilim, then we'd see them there. I don't think, well, let me, the way I describe them, I don't, I don't usually describe them as hybrids, like they're half angel, half man. The Bible calls them men. They were mighty men of old, men of renown, even. And maybe the reason for that is I think the angels who did this took on human form to procreate, to commit this activity. So I don't usually think of them as like having half angel blood and half human blood. like sometimes people will describe it. I think that they were fully human, but large.

And I don't think that Under the Giant was one of them. I don't think that, you know, that I'm a descendant of them or anything. But I don't know that they were necessarily completely wiped out at David's time either. There are legends from around the world that talk about giants in ancient times. Sometimes they're associated with the flood. Sometimes not. Sometimes afterward. And I think it's plausible or possible that some of them were not in Israel or the land of Canaan,

or maybe they fled from there when Joshua and the Israelites came in to conquer the land. Maybe they fled and reached distant places, and that's where some of the legends come from. Yeah, I mean, that's certainly my take. Pretty much every culture throughout history has stories of giants. Certainly in North America, there's a lot of tales of this. You go down into South America, Central America, they all have stories of giants. And so I think definitely they spread out throughout the world as my personal belief. I suppose they could have heard stories from, you know, the ancient Israelites and incorporated

that into their own culture. But I tend to believe that they probably did exist in other lands as well. Yeah, it's also possible that they, you know, as people spread out from Babel, they're taking their history with them. Everybody had a shared history at that point. Of creation, man being made from the dust of the ground, man rebelling against God by eating the fruit after the serpent tempted Eve, then giants in the land, and then there's a great flood, and then the Babel event. And you find those details in a lot of cultures around the world before missionary get there. So it seemed, even though there's a lot of distortions.

So it could be a result of them just passing that tradition of the history down. But it could also be some of them, they encountered them. The one that I find really intriguing is The Odyssey. So you have Odysseus leaving the Battle of Troy, right? And he's trying to get home. And the first island he gets to is the island of the Listergonians, and these giant come out and sink all but one of his ships. And they start spearing people like fish and eating them.

And then his ship gets away. And the next island they go to is the island of the Cyclops, who's a giant who eats human flesh. And it sounds bizarre, and there's a lot of things that are strange in the Odyssey. But the time period of that, to me, is really interesting because that's only about 100 to 200 years after Joshua entered the land. And if they're coming from the south and from the east, that means if you were in that land and you fled,

you would go north and or west, which is into the Mediterranean, and that's right where Odysseus ends up. And so also the thing that's really intriguing, in Numbers 13, when the spies come back and give their report, they say it's a good land, here's its fruit. Remember, they're carrying the grapes and everything, and they're talking about how great it is, but it's a land that devours its inhabitants. What if we take that pretty literally, that the giants that they saw were actually eating people? Then that's when the Israelites get really scared, which they shouldn't have been.

God brought them through the Red Sea. He wiped out the Egyptians. He did all these plagues. He could take care of the giants in the land, too. but as soon as they mentioned that, that's when the people get scared, and then they have to wander in the wilderness for 40 years instead of entering the land. So there's also that consistent theme around a lot of these cultures that the giants would eat people,

and a lot of times they have a connection between heaven and earth, like they're half of each. This would sound weird, but even like Jack and the Beanstalk has that, right? The giants are, they live halfway between heaven and earth, and what do they do? They want to eat people. So that does seem to be very common around the world. And I think it's because there's a basis in reality for it.

Sure. What does your take on the story of Gilgamesh? I think that similarly there is a historical core to that. Obviously, they have Utnapitnam is the Ark Builder. So that would be the Noah character. And then Gilgamesh and I think, and Kidu are also like, their giants, their parts, they seem to, what are they two-thirds, angel human, rather than half, something like that?

No, that's what the Apkalu, I think, are. But, yeah, so they're giants, and I don't know exactly where they would fit in. It does seem to be something that is, well, it's in the Middle East, it's in Mesopotamia, and they would be early on after Babel, I think. but so I think that I think there's a historical basis for that but I'm sure there's embellishment like we find in a lot of the mythology and legends I would agree you know personally I think this is probably Nimrod just going by a different name personally and you know there's a there's a lot of context to that that can back that up now we're coming down in Nimrod oh go ahead Nimrod is not even his name that's like I think it comes from the word for like rebel or something like that like these people want to make a name for themselves and the Bible is like, oh yeah, we're not going to even remember your name. So we're going to just call you something else. So yeah, I think that's a possibility. Sure. So I want to real quick point everybody

to your website, risenmin, m-in, risenmen.com. This is where you can look up, you've written a number of books. You're not just, you know, obviously an author on the study of the giants, but you're an apologist, you're a theologian. So I want people to go to that website. And we've hit that hard break moment, but don't worry, ladies and gentlemen. We are coming back. We're going to finish this episode. Ladies and gentlemen, I want all of you to be a walking billboard. Some of us don't have platforms such as church and state, but you know what? We can wear t-shirts and engage in great conversations with Christians and Patriots all across the country. Stand-up Now apparel is the best t-shirts out there. These are American-made owned by a Christian and a patriot, and the material,

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keeping this show going. So please hit that donate button for us. All right, let's go right back to it. And I sped through that because we had a little bit of some technical difficulties and we have another guest coming on at 10. So I want to get right back. back to our guest, Dr. Tim Chafee, and we're talking about, you know, we're talking about the Nephilim, but he's written this book, Fallen, 500 pages, the Sons of God and the Nephilim. And it is called the most in-depth Bible study available on this controversial subject. I can't wait to read this, sir. I'm going to order this book, because I'm excited to get into this. But tell us a little bit more about this book that you've written. Yeah, so originally it was the, I had a

I choose a topic for my THM thesis back in 2010, 2011, and because I had been called giant so many times, and because I was always fascinated by this topic, I thought, well, let me write on that if somebody hasn't done it already. And I was shocked to find there really wasn't much scholarly work on it. There was a lot of lay-level stuff, but I couldn't find dissertations or anything. And so I thought, okay, let me do that. And as I dug into it, it not only confirmed that the view I thought was right is the right view. there's a lot more in the Bible about it than I ever imagined. It's not just those four verses in Genesis 6. They keep showing up time and again, and then numbers 13 as well.

But it does shape a large part of what we see in Scripture. And it was really an interesting topic, but that had to be really technical because it's a thesis. And so that was like 150 pages, and I thought, if I get the time, I'm going to rewrite that at the late level so that everybody can read it. And then it grew and grew and grew because there was so much more to write about. And so this book doesn't even get into a lot of the topics that modern

that other books on this subject get into, like where there are giant skeletons found throughout the United States in the last 150 years or so and that the Smithsonian's covering up. I don't, maybe, but I don't need that because what I wanted to do is focus on what the Bible says on the topic.

And so if you want an in-depth Bible study, the first 16 chapters are about the identity of the sons of God. It goes through the three major views and then gives the strengths and the objections to those views. There's five chapters just on, like, people, that the arguments people use against the idea that the sons of God are angelic beings. So I go through every objection I've ever heard, and many that most people would never have thought of or heard of. because I want to be very thorough. And then the last half of the book is about the giants themselves and goes through what the scripture has to say about them. And, yeah, so that's what I'm set out to do.

It's just create the most detailed Bible study on the topic that's been written. Fantastic. Last question that I really want to ask you is, why is this important? I'll just be a little bit of the devil's advocate, right? As a Christian, you know, why is this important? Why are we even writing? why we're taking the time to look at this, examine it, study it, when it could potentially be taking away from the gospel message, right?

That emphasis on Jesus. Why is this important as a Christian to understand? Yeah, I think that's a great question. And you know what? I've written a book on the resurrection called In Defensive Easter answering critical challenges to the resurrection of Jesus. That was my favorite book to ever write, because every day that I'm working on,

I'm studying the resurrection, which is the greatest topic to be studying and writing about. And that was so much more enjoyable than sometimes. times in this book I felt like after writing a chapter I'd have to go take a shower just because stuff that you have to dig into it's rather disturbing at times but I think it's important for a couple of reasons one it's in the Bible the Holy Spirit inspired the writing of God's word and that means that the Holy Spirit said it's telling us this is important it doesn't mean it's of the same level of importance as the as the gospel but it's in there and we're supposed to be

studying his word, so we shouldn't ignore it and just gloss over it like a lot of people do. Oh, that's controversial, or that's confusing, or I don't like it, therefore I'm going to skip it. Well, no, we're supposed to study God's words, so I think that's one reason. The other one is because it can lead to the gospel. There are a lot of people who maybe won't set foot in the doors of a church, but they might pick up a book on this topic, or you mentioned the UFO alien stuff earlier. They might pick up a book on that topic, and if that is a way that we can introduce people to the gospel, then let's do it. I think anything that we can use in our culture that people are interested in,

then we should be using that to point people to Jesus Christ. I absolutely love that because the Bible is the only book that I know of that has all the answers that you will ever need. And so we should not shy away from any subject, even if we believe this is of importance. Obviously, not just the men who wrote it, but they were inspired by the Holy Spirit. So they were directed to put this in here. Everything has intention behind it, every word used in the Word of God. So I absolutely love that, sir. I'm going to once again point everybody to your website, RisenMid, M-I-N. I want to make sure we get that right.

Risenmin.com. We're showing that once again. And, sir, last words for the audience here. I think it would go along with what we just talked about. Don't spend so much time focusing on what our enemy has done, but focus on what our Savior has done. We need to be, you know, we need to be wise at serpents, right, but we also need to be like dope. So we need to, we need to be aware of what the enemy is doing, but we don't want to focus too much of our energy and efforts on that. We should be praising God for what he has done

and sharing the good news of the gospel of Jesus Christ with this world that so desperately needs to hear it. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, I've got to tell you, thank you so much for your time. Thank you for your work. Not just on this subject. I love what you're doing with the Ark Encounter and your ministry over there and all the different books that you've written. So once again to the audience, risenmin.com. Go check that out. And I'm going to go ahead and close us out, sir. If you hold on one more minute post-production, say her goodbyes, I'd appreciate it.

But again, thank you for your time here on Church Estate. Thanks, Caleb. I appreciate it. Absolutely. All right, there you go, ladies and gentlemen. You know, it's a fascinating study, and I do believe what my guest and I were talking about that you should pour through the scriptures. You should study every single aspect of it.

This is one that fascinates me personally. I've devoted a lot of time here at Church and State on covering this topic. But once again, with the scripture, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater. Church of State is brought to you apart by Colonial Life, Spokane, Independent Agents, finders insurance, and mark37.com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. This is Caleb Collier with Church and State.

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