The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Church & State -The Second Amendment Foundation with Kostas Moros

Episode Date: July 29, 2026

Caleb is joined by Kostas Moros, Director of Legal Research and Education for the Second Amendment Foundation, to talk about the battle to defend our rights, https://saf.org/Church and State is brought to you by,  YOU!  Visit us at: https://churchandstate.media where you can support us by donating directly and find links to shop with our affiliates.Get our merch at https://standupnowapparel.com/partner-church-and-state/   Support Church and State today by shopping at www.MyPillow.com using our coupon code: “CHURCHANDSTATE”.Our links are on link tree: https://linktr.ee/churchandstate                    Subscribe to our Locals Community (churchandstate1.locals.com)   Follow us on Rumble (@ChurchandState1776) https://rumble.com/user/ChurchandState1776    X(twitter) (@1churchandstate) https://x.com/1churchandstatefacebook (churchandstate1776) https://www.facebook.com/ChurchandState1776   SubStack (churchandstate.substack.com) https://churchandstate.substack.com/     *Help fund our fight against tyranny: Buy from our affiliates and tell them Church and State sent you. *Tune in on NRBTV Tue-Fri 1:30 PM Pacific! Become a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/prepper-broadcasting-network--3295097/support.Support PBN and become a MEMBER of the PBN FAMILY! Free courses, Members only videos, reviews, and podcast! The Prepper's Medical Handbook Build Your Medical Cache – Welcome PBN FamilyJoin the Prepper Broadcasting Network for expert insights on #Survival, #Prepping, #SelfReliance, #OffGridLiving, #Homesteading, #Homestead building, #SelfSufficiency, #Permaculture, #OffGrid solutions, and #SHTF preparedness. With diverse hosts and shows, get practical tips to thrive independently – subscribe now!Newsletter – Welcome PBN FamilyGet Your Free Copy of 50 MUST READ BOOKS TO SURVIVE DOOMSDAYSupport PBN with a Donation 

Sokand Valley could become a sanctuary city of a different kind. Native Councilman Caleb Collier says that this proposal. I'm proposing that the city of Spokane Valley issue of proclamation stating that our city is a Second Amendment sanctuary. Today on Church and State, the Second Amendment Foundation with Costas Moros. Hello Christian Patriots and welcome to Church and State where we drive morality and religion over tolerance and apathy. And I'm your host, Caleb Collier. Once again, your favorite far-right shock jock. And the show that talks about politics and religion, Jesus Christ is our referee.

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Lastly, if you want to get a hold of us, church and state 1776 at Proton.me. With that, let's go ahead and bring on our guest. I'm so pleased to have Costas Moros, sorry, costis moros. No, I'm saying it wrong, costis morose. He is the SAF Director of Legal Research and Education, the Second Amendment Foundation. Sir, it is a pleasure to have you on the show. Caleb, thanks for having me on. It's a pleasure as well.

Absolutely, yeah. So this is an issue that's near and dear to my heart. Obviously, you saw with the intro back when I was a politician. Don't worry, I'm self-loathing there. I'm no longer a politician. But I tried to make this. Repet for your sins. Yeah, exactly.

But I did try to make our city a Second Amendment sanctuary city, kind of tongue-in-cheek during the whole sanctuary city's thing. But I tried. It failed. But obviously the Second Amendment is very, very important to not just myself, but Americans. Yeah, it's the second in the Bill of Rights, we think, for a reason. You know, the founders, when they drafted up the Bill of Rights, Madison and the others who revised it, they listed free speech, freedom of religion, freedom of association.

But then right after that, they said, oh, and by the way, you need to have a right to keep in bare arms for any of that other stuff to really mean anything. So that's the way we see it. Yeah, absolutely. It's essential to everything that is America, this experiment in liberty and continuing to keep those freedoms that are God-given. You need a firearm to do so, like the one behind me. Tell us a little bit about your history here, you know, how you started.

You're obviously a lawyer, but what drew you to this job line of defending the Second Amendment. Sure. So, I mean, I started off, I became a lawyer in 2015. And for the first few years, I did typical lawyer stuff. I did employment defense. I did some business immigration, you know, people like businessmen who needed visas and stuff, did that for a while. And then in 2019, something called Freedom Week happened in California, which was when Judge Benitez issued a ruling striking down California's magazine ban. That was eventually stayed. But for about a week, you could buy standard magazines. That's why we called it Freedom Week. And even now, you get to keep them if you had them then. They're protected by various court orders, while the case, which is still going, works its way through the Supreme Court. And I reached out to the firm that did that because I'm like, hey, this is awesome that you guys did this.

I didn't know this was a thing in California. How do I work for you? And I ended up eventually moving to L.A. and joining that firm called Michelle and Associates. I still have a lot of great colleagues there, former colleagues. colleagues rather. They represent the California Rifle and Pistol Association. So I worked there until last year, and then last year I moved over to the Second Amendment Foundation, which has, does still work in California. In fact, they partner with CRPA on a bunch of cases, but we also have national cases in all the other states, too. We have over 50 active cases. And now I take a more higher level approach. I draft amicus briefs, which are a friend of the court briefs in courts across the country. I sometimes help strategize for new litigation. And I even leave. Right now I am suing Contra Costa, so I do still directly handle some cases myself, one right now, hopefully more in the future. But it's a broader role than I used to have.

Well, we appreciate your work. I'm going to ask you, what's it like being a Second Amendment lawyer in L.A.? Oh, you get punched in the face a lot. No, it is a brutal place, but I like playing in hard mode, so it works out. You know, I could go practice in Texas, and I tease my lawyer friends who practice in Texas that they're playing on easy mode. I'm playing on hard mode, you know. But we've won, it is a lot of losing because even when we win in the district court, we have a hostile ninth circuit, which you know about if you're in Washington still, that likes to overturn our wins. But we've still managed to squeeze out some important ones.

For example, I led the lawsuit, CRPA versus LASD, which established non-resident carry in California. So because of that, our lawsuit there, California now must issue permits to non-residents from other states. So for the first time in modern history, someone who's not from California has the right to carry in California. Now you still have to go through the process and it's a pain, but even that is something more than we used to have. And SAF is working towards full reciprocity, of course, in the courts, but you got to start somewhere. Oh, absolutely. Yeah. No, I will admit, and I think I'm not the only one.

It is a bit of an enigma that, you know, this American history in the wild west, right? You'd move to the west and you'd go out there because it was new. You could go and start a life and start a business and the gold rush, obviously, in California. And now the West Coast, I mean, you brought up the Ninth Circuit, which is the worst in the country. But they have some of the most atrocious gun laws in Washington, Oregon, California. And there really is a lack of freedom all the way around, it seems. Yeah, it's a huge problem. And another reason that it's maybe a blessing in disguise that I live in California is it keeps me motivated.

But we have all sorts of crazy laws. You know, we're suing them over their new 11% tax on guns and ammo, which is probably coming to your state eventually if we don't beat it here. We're suing them over trying to ban carry effectively everywhere. We're suing Santa Clara County because they charge 2,000. to get a carry permit. You know, we had to enforce LA in another successful lawsuit. They were taking two years to issue carry permits and we sued them and that's ended now. It takes about three months, which is still slow, but better than two years. So it's just a never-ending fight and every time we win something, it seems like they pass

two more laws. So, you know, we're doing our best over here, but ultimately, like I always urge people, we're happy to fight this for you in courts, but it would be a lot easier if everyone got out and voted because that would be, it's much more straightforward. or then, you know, waiting on the mercy of the Ninth Circuit to save you or the Supreme Court. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I liked what you said about Washington, too, because I've joked on this show multiple times that Washington's like the little brother of California, you know, like kind of looking up,

like, oh, you did that, we'll do that too. And it's horrific to watch. And we have a terrible governor in Washington that used to be our attorney general, which is the whole reason why I tried to make our city a Second Amendment. Sanctuary City because of attacks on high capacity magazines and assault weapons, whatever those are. So yeah, the fight is real for all of us. And obviously not just the West Coast. It's throughout the entire United States. This is an essential right. And I agree with you. We should be voting. And we're not, unfortunately, and especially in states like California or Washington, where

Republicans, when you look at the data numbers, they're not coming out. They're not doing the voting for that. And libertarians, constitutionalists, the same thing. So I'm so appreciative of an organization like yours that is taking it and saying, hey, legally, we have the right to carry. Yeah, I mean, and I want to say something about voting too, because sometimes when I make that argument, people will be like, well, come on, California is a 60, 40 state. We have no chance, even if every Republican showed up. But that's not necessarily true because, yeah, I'm not saying that the next governor is going to be a Republican, although I'm going to vote for, uh, uh, I don't even his name, the British guy running for governor in California. It's sad that I don't remember

his name off the top of my head. But what it would do, let's say instead of winning 65-35, it's only 55-45, or 5248, and it's close. That would actually put some fear in the Democrats to moderate their position. So even losing but losing close kind of scares the other side into behaving. When they're winning by 20, 30 points, of course they're going to trample our rights. You know, they feel like they have a mandate to do so. So yes, please show up to vote because it does matter even if you don't manage to win. It moves the ball forward. I love what you just said there because that is so important.

When you are looking at that in the California politicians, they're looking at the voting tallies, right? They're seeing it, the numbers. And they say, hey, this is why we can go after the Second Amendment. This is why we feel safe to have, you know, boys participating in girls' sports and pushing transgender agendas in all the public schools, it's because they know they have nothing to fear. So yes, you get that fear and you're right. It becomes, it forces them to become a whole lot more moderate. And personally, and I mean, I'm libertarian, but personally, I prefer a more moderate Democrat

than one of these rabid socialist Democrats. Yeah, I mean, right now I feel like a lot of us would kill for a 1980s-style Democrat. You know, that'd be a lot better. Bring back Michael Dukakis, right? Yeah. Oh, he was Greek too. Like many. There you go. No, I'm absolutely with you. So for the, for the audience who maybe doesn't necessarily know your organization and the work that you do, can you describe it for us? Sure. So the Second Amendment Foundation, like I said, has over 50 active cases currently. But we're actually, you know, I think it was last year we celebrated our 50th anniversary. So we were founded by Alan Gottlieb. Actually, our headquarters is in Bellevue in Washington. I was just there a few months ago for companies. meetup. But yeah, we're a nonprofit, and we've been behind a number of Second Amendment victories.

The most famous one is a case in 2010 in the Supreme Court called McDonald v. Chicago, which is the case that after Heller said that Heller essentially applies to the states, because if you recall, D.C. v. Heller said there's an individual right to keep in bare arms, but that was against D.C., which is a federal enclave. And there was a debate over, well, it limits the federal government, but does it limit the states? And in our case in 2010, and the Supreme Court confirmed this is a fundamental right under the 14th Amendment. So that means it does apply to the state. So that's our most famous case, but we've had a series of smaller victories since then.

And we have a big one coming next year because a couple weeks ago, we were granted review in the Supreme Court in a case called Viramontes v. Cook County. That's one of our cases. And it's going to decide the assault weapons issue nationally. That's going to be heard in the Supreme Court's next term. So we're very hopeful for our next monument. mental victory in the Supreme Court. Yeah, absolutely. I love that you bring up the state's rights thing here. Obviously, as a libertarian, I'm a big fan of the 9th and 10th amendments. But a lot of these state constitutions, I know, for example, Washington State has a great Second Amendment in our state

constitution. What's the state constitution look like in California in regards to firearms? There's no right to keep in bear arms in the California Constitution. So, yeah, we're at, we entirely rely on the Second Amendment. I'd have to double check that, but I think there may have been one once, but it removed, I'm rusty on my history. Point is right now there isn't one in the state constitution. Wow, that is. I mean, that's, is that one of the few states that has that, or does it have that I should say? It's one of the few. It's one of the few. There's actually debates, I don't mean to get too dorky here, but in the 19th century, they debated it and they basically felt it would be redundant with the Second Amendment. And the attitude was, well, we don't even need that.

And maybe in the 19th century, they didn't because nobody was trying to pass these sorts of laws, but who could they could have not they couldn't have known what california would become 150 years later i guess boy that is extremely short-sighted in my opinion there uh you know if if anybody as a student of history they know that governments tend to grow and when governments tend to grow they become a lot more tyrannical and oppressive yeah absolutely i mean california at the time was you know their main concern was uh people in the gold rush shooting at each other so i guess that's what they were you know love shying away from. But California was pretty great for gun rights, with some exceptions, like the Mulford Act and stuff. But it was pretty great until the 1980s. And then it all kind of fell

apart around the time it became a one-party state, of course. Sure. Yeah. And that's why so many people are fleeing that state in droves. You're seeing a mass migration. People going to Texas, you were sharing about your colleague that's playing on easy mode. But a lot of the conservatives are racing out of that state. Yeah, I mean, it's the first time in California's history that it's lost population. You know, we've been growing and growing and growing and now for the first time we lost an electoral college vote, which is good. I'm happy about that because we spend our electoral college votes very stupidly, in my opinion. And we're in the next census, assuming there's no questionable counting, we should lose a few more because California has lost.

I think in total about half a million people in the last several years, which, I mean, doesn't sound like that much when you're talking about a state with 39 million people. But again, it's the first time the state has ever shrunk in its history. Yeah, you're absolutely right. And there was such a draw to California. And, you know, California is such an amazing state. Somebody was born there, lived there for a lot of years, served in the Marine Corps there. I mean, from deserts to some of the most beautiful oceans you could imagine, the mountains you get up towards like Shasta. It's absolutely gorgeous there.

You know, San Francisco is still one of the most beautiful cities, or it used to be. used to be one of the most beautiful cities in the world. And there was just this land of opportunity there. And I mean, you have to point the finger at these Democrats for ruining literally the golden goose. Yeah, I mean, California is has every natural advantage you could ask for. It has, you know, it's literally, you know, blessed by God, as it were, with with the very fertile land. It still has lots of farming, you know, Yosemite, the most beautiful places, some of the most beautiful place in the world. Beaches, great climate. You couldn't ask for a more perfect

place. And yet, you know, it just shows the importance of how politics and government can infect everything. And it's a state that, you know, if you're rich and well-off, California is still a lot of fun, you know, you'd go to your country clubs, you stay away from the, from the skid rows. And you'll be okay. But for, you know, for someone just starting out, there's a reason people keep leaving. It's too expensive. It's overregulated. It's a total mess. I don't mean to get too far off my Second Amendment focus here. You know, I am here on behalf of the Second Amendment Foundation. So I don't mean to rant too much about my home state. But I can't help myself. I can hear the frustration. And it mirrors my own with where I currently live. And you're right. I mean, if you're an elitist,

you know, you can go to Napa Valley with Gavin Newsom during COVID restrictions. You know, I mean, that's just the way it works in California. Well, and really in politics in general. But, yeah, I will return back to the Second Amendment Foundation. And, you know, for people that, because I ask this question a lot to a lot of my guests, especially politicians, what's your favorite of the Bill of Rights? And so oftentimes I hear the Second Amendment, you know, this is such a big one. For Americans, just around the country, they love their firearms. And they understand the importance of that.

But for maybe somebody that's a little bit more left-leaning or something, can you break down the importance of the Second Amendment? Why specifically the anti-federalist ensured that we had this protection. What was that about? Was that about bears? Was that about animals? Was that about hunting? What was the original intent behind the Second Amendment? No, they just like target shooting.

No. So you got to understand the historical context. which is that this was a group of people who had just rebelled at great risk to themselves against a government, their government, that they felt had become tyrannical against them. The American Revolution itself kicked off because the British went to seize arms at Lexington and Concord. And what happened was a bunch of militiamen said no, and they stood out in the field, and the first battle didn't go well. But then right after that, at the rest of Lexington and Concord, they massed more and more. militiamen who basically chased the British back to Boston and won that battle. And it was a, you know, it was a huge black eye to the world's preeminent superpower at the time. You know,

people call that myth making, but it's actually true. The Lexington and Concord story is true. It's not a founding myth as some more left-leaning scholars like to call it, because it happened. And so when the founders went to draft this constitution, once they agreed there should be a bill rights because there was some debate about that, after the anti-federalist one, that debate. They insisted that one of the rights that the federal government, because it was limited to the federal government at the time, could not infringe on, was the Second Amendment. And they expressly said it was because they were concerned about both tyranny or foreign invaders. And they felt that they didn't want to have a standing army, and the best offense was an unarmed populace.

And while that's changed a little bit today, because obviously we do have a standing army, the founders eventually lost that argument, I guess, in our modern world. It's still important that the people have the right to keep and bear arms, as we've seen in countries across the world. You know, when Russia invaded Ukraine, the first response was people who were armed. They were desperately trying to hand out AK-47 civilians, but it would have been a hell of a lot easier for them if people had been armed and trained before that. When Hamas invaded Israel, you know, when there's just so many examples of people who felt they were safe until they suddenly weren't. And I urge people to remember that just because right now the idea of government tyranny seems far-fetched, like, we don't know what will come next in history.

And this is a responsibility we've been handed, you know, generationally to protect this, right? Because even if hopefully in our lifetimes, we never need it and hopefully in our children's and grandchildren's lifetime, do you really know what's going to be happening in the next 250 years? So this is why the Second Amendment is just as important as the first. I'd put it on equal footing. And in certain times, in certain circumstances, I'd argue it's even more important than the First Amendment. because ultimately, if the government does not have any fear of its people, then the other amendments mean nothing. Yeah, you're absolutely right. I mean, I'm sure Tankman, as he came to be known, wish that he would have had, you know, like a rocket propelled grenade or something like that versus standing there with shopping bags as a tank approaches him.

So, yeah, the Second Amendment can be more important than your right to free speech because we have to be able to defend that. And I love the explanation that you gave for the audience. I assume most of the people watching the show understand that. But, I mean, it's good to have a history lesson and why we have this essential God-given right spelled out in the Constitution in our Bill of Rights. What would be the difference between, I say, you know, the Second Amendment Foundation and the NRA or the Gunners of America? Well, first of all, there's a lot of great orgs out there. I'm a member of most of them, actually. but each org has its sort of different focus.

The NRA is huge, not as huge as used to be, but we're happy to see that they're recovering now under new leadership. And they handle everything from training certifications for range masters. They do do some litigation like we do, and they do all sorts of publications. What differentiates SAF, I think, Second Amendment Foundation, is that we are very heavily focused on litigation.

It's like over 80% of money that is donated goes directly to litigation. That's how we have over 50 active lawsuits, which I think, given our size, is kind of crazy. We're not that big of an organization, but we do have dozens and dozens of lawsuits and even more amicus briefs that I draft all the time. You know, all our salaries, by the way,

you can pull up our tax forms. You can see we're not paying exorbitant salaries. I could double my salary tomorrow if I wanted to go work for some insurance defense room in downtown L.A. I'm not doing that because I want to do something I love. and frankly, I'd probably kill myself if I were doing insurance defense. So, yeah, suffice it to say I feel pretty good about, I feel pretty comfortable saying that when you donate to SAF, the money is well spent, and it goes towards litigation, which is our focus.

I love that. You know, I work for a small startup that does ghost phones, so phones that don't spy on you. And the president of the organization has a sign behind his desk, follow the money. And so I like the ability to be able to see that, hey, this is a man who's principled. This is a man who, if he went out into the private sector, could make a whole lot more money. But he's a warrior. You know, and I'm not trying to overcom compliment you. I'm definitely not a warrior, but I appreciate it.

But you are in a legal sense, though. You are going to battle against Goliath that is this anti-second amendment, you know, government in California throughout the states as well. even at times the federal government. Obviously, under Trump, it's a little bit better. But during Biden's tenure or Obama's, there were a lot of attacks on this fundamental right. Yeah, and we're still dealing with a lot of them, both at the federal and the state level. You know, it's crazy. Let me just give it a quick example here.

You've probably heard a lot of controversy about the SAFE Act in recent months, right? You know, it's supposedly super racist and this and that to make people prove their citizens. One of the people talking about how bad the SAVE Act was is Chuck Schumer, Senator of New York. Chuck Schumer has never said anything about NYPD's pistol permits, which require everything the SAVE Act requires and much more. You need personal references from three people you've lived with. You need to do a training course. You need to pay a whole bunch of fees. You need to provide a birth certificate or passport or other proof of citizen.

So literally everything the SAVE Act requires, but much worse, is what New York requires. requires for the Second Amendment. And that sort of hypocrisy really just drives me, you know, because they treat it like a second class right. They apply what amounts to basically modern Jim Crow to the Second Amendment. You know, I mentioned the $2,000 carry permits in Santa Clara County. That's right out of the 19th century. So this is the kind of stuff we're fighting constantly. Yeah. And unfortunately, I mean, it's a war that we're never going to end the war. You know, these battles will continue. And ultimately, we rest when we get to heaven.

And so that's what you get to look forward to. Sorry, I don't mean to be Debbie Downer or anything. Let me ask you about compromising because, you know, we were talking a little bit about the NRA. And part of the reason why the NRA decreased in membership was because they started to compromise. And you're absolutely right. Under this new leadership, it's been really, really good. And I'm really happy to see that and be able to report that the NRA is, back and they're doing what they actually are supposed to be doing. But why is it so essential

that we as Americans never compromise whatsoever on the Second Amendment? Because it's a right, because it's been compromised so much already, I'd say, you know, I don't know if people have seen the cake meme where it explains the Second Amendment over the years. You know, you start with this full cake and then there's the 1930s gun control and the 1960s gun control and the 1990s Brady Act. And they keep just taking it away and taking it away and demanding hey, why don't you compromise? But a true compromise, I'm not against the idea, but a true compromise requires both sides to give something up.

So I'm not saying this would necessarily be a good deal, but it would be a different conversation if the Democrats came and said, hey, let's do universal background checks, but in return, your carry permit is valid across the country. I'm not saying that I'm not endorsing that deal necessarily, but at least it would be a deal. At least we'd be getting something back.

What we've actually been doing is concessions. We've given stuff away because they make us feel guilty about it or they say it's common sense and we get nothing in return. You know, so that's what I take issue with. I'm open to a discussion of a real deal where both sides get something they want if the deal makes sense, if it can square with the Second Amendment. But I'm not open to just one-sided concessions anymore. We've done enough of that. I would agree with that. And it'd be an interesting conversation I have, you know.

I'm not sure where I will. I feel like because we've been on the receiving end of all this. We have trust issues. Yeah, we definitely have some trust issues. And for myself, you know, I would love to be able to go into, like in the 1930s, go into a hardware store and buy a Tommy gun. You know, I believe that's my right. And I'm going to be a responsible gun owner because I've been trained.

I understand the risks of that and the dangers associated with firearms. But when you're talking about that, I mean, that's every. firearm owner that I've ever met, that I've ever spoken with, they are probably the least concern for the government. Yeah, I mean, and that's the truth. You know, in one of our cases we're dealing with, as an example, against California and other states, New Jersey, they've all passed after they were forced to start issuing carry permits after Bruin, what they did next besides making them expensive was they banned carry basically

everywhere. You know, you can't carry any parks in any restaurant that's. serves alcohol, even if you're not drinking. You know, they even passed this crazy vampire rule where you couldn't carry in a private business unless you got permission from the owner. So that's any place. The Supreme Court just struck that down in Wolford, and we did Namikis Brief and Support. So that was defeated.

But the crazy thing about all that is in our case, we actually presented data from five different states showing that people with CCW permits almost never commit crimes. Super rare. More rare than the police. I think the number I came up with with the data was that if they were their own country, they'd have a lower homicide rate than Switzerland. Wow. You know, people with carry.

It'd be the safest country in the world. And, and actually, let me, I apologize. I got to pause you here. We have that hard break. Oh, yeah. I hate doing this to guess, but, hey, time waits for no man. But we're going to continue, ladies and gentlemen. Hey, this is Caleb Collier with Church of State.

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That's not collecting all of your data when you're talking about, hey, you know, I'm thinking about going and purchasing a Colt 45, for example. So check out Mark37.com. Get yourself a ghost phone. Get yourself a ghost laptop. It's what I use daily. The computer I'm on right now is a ghost laptop. So check them out. Mark37.com. Use that promo code church and state. You're going to get a discount and you'll help support the show. And just one more time, hit the donate button for us. Keep us alive. Conversations like this are so important. and I'm doing it five days a week, so please keep us on the air. All right, with that, let's go ahead and go back to our guest. Once again, the Second Amendment Foundation, joined by Kostas Moros. He's the Director of Legal Research and Education at SAF, Second Amendment Foundation. And I apologize, sir. I cut you off, but please continue.

No, no, I run my mouth too much. Sorry about that. I ramble. But I think what I was saying before the break was that we presented this data from several state showing how rare crime is among those with carry permits. And what's interesting is California conceded that point, as did New Jersey, as did Hawaii. They had no rebuttal arguments. So they're essentially admitting in court that there is no safety risk from people with carry

permits and yet they're still passing these laws to restrict that we can't, you know, I can't carry out of when I take my daughter to a playground legally. Now whether or not I follow that law, I'm not going to comment on because it's immoral. As a lawyer, I'll say, yes, I do follow that law. But the point is, right? Yeah, the point is that they are passing these laws out of antipathy. It's not even a good faith belief in safety. They just hate gun owners, so they're passing these laws.

You know, when Gavin Newsom announced this particular bill, he said the Supreme Court announced a right to carry, and he actually did this. So he's essentially saying, like, I don't believe this is a right. And that's so frustrating to me. And, you know, we're doing our best to push back on that. Yeah, and some amazing work that you guys are doing over there at the Second Amendment Foundation. You know, they tend to use national tragedies. And I would almost call them tragedy pimps, maybe for lack of a better word. But any time that you have one of these individuals who typically are on SSRIs, which I really don't think we should be doing that, ladies and gentlemen, that's a subject for another show.

But they do like a school shooting. And these are tragic. And obviously no one, regardless of your political affiliation, is going to celebrate this. But these tragedy pimps, these politicians will take something like that and say, this, this is why we need. And you brought it up before. It's always the same verbiage. Common sense gun laws. Yeah, and it's nonsense because, you know, obviously, yes, we do need to stop these tragedies.

But I just don't think gun control laws are what's going to do it. You know, we didn't used to have mass shootings in our history, even when machine guns. were legal, at least not this common. And these can stop. And there's a lot of different ways to stop them. I'm not an expert on psychological treatments. So I'm not going to comment on SRIs. But one actual common sense way, let me give you another example from my home state. We recently banned the sale of Glockes. Why did we ban the sale of Glockes? Because you could illegally modify them with the switch, the legislator says. So we're fighting that in the courts right now. But that was prompted by a mass shooting in Sacramento committed by a felon who had beaten his girlfriend's face into a pulp.

He was sentenced to 10 years in prison. They let him out after just three years because of COVID release policies. So this prohibited person illegally gets a Glock, which you can't have because he's a federally prohibited person, puts a switch on it, again, already illegal on its own. And then now we can't buy Glockes because they release someone from prison early. And that's just not every mass shooter, obviously, is someone who got released from prison early, but I'm just pointing out that there's a lot of different actual common sense ways to stop these crimes without harassing, you know, law-biting, peaceable people. A lot of these mass shooters do have histories with police.

And I'm not going to say that every time the cops come, you should lose your gun rights. I'm not claiming that. But clearly they're on the radar. This is something we can do a better job of filtering, I believe. You know, they talk about background checks, but it seems like a lot of these people get through their background checks. So maybe we need to take a look at that. Yeah, the inconsistency really bothers me. You know, if I were to say, let's just say, you know, I'm not a libertarian anymore.

I'm a Republican. And I, because I know that a number of the immigrants that are coming over to this country are criminals. There's a lot of sex trafficking, human trafficking that is going on. So my idea is we completely shut down the borders and we don't allow any immigration. whatsoever in the country. Obviously, the left is going to lose their minds on this scenario, but they're doing the same thing to us with the Second Amendment. Yeah, I mean, even they'll pretend otherwise, but yes, what else do you call it when they're trying to tax it and restrict it and arbitrarily deny permits and ban carry everywhere?

It's exactly the same thing they complain that Republicans used to do on abortion, for example. You know, I agree, I happen to agree with the Dobbs decision. I know it's not exactly in my lane. But let's assume for a second that they were right, that abortion is this constitutional right. They're not right, but let's assume it was. They hated all the methods that red states did to try and stymie abortion, but they're doing much worse when it comes to the Second Amendment. So I think what Democrats need to admit to themselves, maybe not all of them,

but a lot of them is they don't want the Second Amendment to exist, but unfortunately for them, they don't have the votes to amend it. So stop trying to kill it by 1,000 cuts. If you think you can convince America to repeal the Second Amendment, then do that. But other than that, you should leave people alone, I think. That seems a very libertarian principle right there. Leave people alone, right? If you don't like firearms, nobody's dictating this. We don't have laws in this country where you have to have a firearm in your household. There are countries in the world that do something like that. But we don't do

that here in the United States. If you don't want a firearm, don't use one. Don't have one in your home. You can go your entire life without ever touching a firearm. But for those of us who like them, who like gun culture, hey, leave us alone. Yeah, and I'm empathetic, by the way. I understand people say, well, I want to feel safe at a grocery store and a movie theater. I want my kids to be safe in school. I'm not saying that that's not a valid concern. It's disgusting that you even have to have that thought that your kid might be killed by a lunatic

with a gun in a school. That's not acceptable as a society, and we do need to fix that. And just my point is that, you know, when a drunk driver wipes out a family, we don't ban alcohol. You know, we deal with it in different ways. And we should come up with creative solutions to defeat the mass shooting phenomenon in this modern era. But that one of those solutions can't be the destruction of a constitutional rate. I would agree. And hey, this country did attempt to ban alcohol one time.

Didn't work so well. Didn't it? No, it became more popular than ever. And it created 50 years or more of the most. mob because of it. Once again, government, maybe you stay in your lane, you're very limited lane as per the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Let's talk about some up-and-coming litigation that you're involved in.

What are some really important cases that my audience, regardless of where they live, can help support you guys, reach out to the representatives, support you guys monetarily. There's got to be a lot more that we can be doing as advocates for the people. the Second Amendment. Right, right. So some of them I've already talked about. The biggest most famous one is the one that's going to be in the Supreme Court that's coming turn on on assault weapons bans. If we win that case and I expect we will, then, you know, all assault weapons bans nationally are going to be defeated and people like me in California will be able to buy standard AR-15s again, people like you in Washington. So that's going to be the biggest one.

But we're also litigating in several states sensitive places cases where they try to ban carry everywhere. We're dealing, like I said, with the California excise tax, which we expect other states will copy. So we're trying to get ahead of that. And we're suing over the National Firearms Act because although they eliminated the tax on suppressors and SBRs, I wouldn't know anything about that in California, but although they, because I can't get it even if I register, but they still require, for those of you in free state's registration, even though the tax is zero. And we're suing to stop that in several cases across the country. So, we're hoping to win those. There's too many to list, you know, we're involved in over 50 cases.

So I'm going to, I'd run over time if I tried to describe all of them. But if you go to SAF.org, you can become a member. It's just $25 per year, I think, or, and if you want, donate on top of that. And you can become a, and by the way, membership carries other benefits. For example, we just won a case on carry in post offices because the government bans carry in post offices. But because of Trump v. Casa, the Supreme Supreme Court has said you have to limit relief, no more nationwide injunctions. You have to limit relief to the parties in the case. So the relief on that is limited to members of Second Amendment Foundation or Firearms Policy Coalition. So there's one benefit immediately. Pay $25 and you can

carry in post offices as a staff member because that ruling would now apply to you. So there's one tangible immediate benefit. But yeah, please support our work. Without it, we wouldn't be able to do these cases. You know, I absolutely love it. And 25 bucks. That's a nothing, ladies and gentlemen, $25 annually and you're carrying in a post office now. Hey, I mean, I'm a former postal employee. You know, I don't share that often. But yeah, I used to work for the post office. You know, that's an area where people used to joke about people going postal. So maybe it's a good idea to be able to carry a firearm there. I wanted to ask you this as well, suppressors, because, you know, you brought this up and I don't know why so many people have this

idea in their heads that suppressors are just this this terrible production that allows people to, you know, shoot people without being heard, you know, it's like the movies like this kind of sound. It's like, that's not what it actually sounds like, ladies and gentlemen. And especially everybody who shoots knows you wear hearing protection. Why are suppressors like this, this boogeyman in the U.S.? Well, you just said it's because of Hollywood. That's the exact reason why.

You know, if my only knowledge of suppressors was that cool scene in John. one wick two where they're just shooting at each other in the subway and it's just like phew pew phew I'd probably want them banned too I'd be like that's crazy we'll never be able to know where the all these assassins are and they're all killing each other but you know ironically a couple weeks ago I was in Vegas at a event at staccato and I got to shoot a suppressed handgun for the first time and let me tell you although it's very cool and it does quiet it down a bit it's still loud you are not missing that you know it's just quiet enough that you can arguably take off your hearing protection and be okay but it's not that

quiet. Like it's still, if you're shooting in a building, for example, people will hear it. And look, if there's concerns that certain guns, like maybe suppressed 22 can get pretty quiet, well, we can have a discussion of, you know, maybe it's limited to certain calibers. But what the, what the anti-gunners want is total suppressor bans, you know, in the Senate, they're talking about, oh, when we're back in power, we're going to put a $5,000 tax on suppressors because you guys eliminated it. You know, it's ridiculous. And it does come down to just Hollywood. I mean, even in Europe where a lot of these countries have strict gun laws, suppressors are sold over the counter in some countries.

They just, without background checks, because it's just, you know, something they consider polite to do. A few countries are like that there. So it's something that needs to go away. And the federal government, by the way, in our case, admitted recently that there's millions and millions of registered suppressors now, and they're almost never used in crime. I don't think they could cite an example of one being used in a violent crime.

So it's just a fake concern. inspired by Hollywood. You're absolutely right, because anybody concealed carrying is not carrying a suppressor, guys. We're not trying to bring up this long tube on our barrel. No, it's not going to happen. So you use it with target shooting. So, yeah, you're lessening the effect of that loud report from firearms on your eardrums. And as a former Marine, you know, I can tell you, I probably have some hearing loss

because I wasn't always Johnny on the spot with putting the hearing protection on. So yeah, this is a tool. And guys, the suppressor's not going to hurt you. I mean, I suppose you could use it as a blunt instrument if you wanted to. I don't know any gun owners that would. But it's not going to hurt you guys. It's also critical for home defense, by the way. You know, if you have a pistol caliber carbine, for example, suppressor's a great idea

because, you know, if someone does break into your house, God forbid, in the middle of the night and you fire off a gun, it's going to disorient you. Hopefully you hit them, but you're going to be disoriented. So if you miss that first shot, it might get a little dicey. And that's where suppressors are useful. And by the way, we're fighting California suppressor ban. Well, I'm sorry, that's my old firm. I'm crossing paths here, but a case called Sanchez B. Vonta

is dealing with that in California. Yeah. Well, I'm gonna tell you, Costas, I gotta, I'm gonna finish the rest of this interview being a bitter clinger. And I'm just gonna hold this and kind of stroke it because I love this thing. But I wanna go back to your website.

We're kind of winding down on the episode. And let's talk about, SAF.org. Why people should go to the website. I want people to join at $25 annually. That is a cheap price, ladies and gentlemen, to have some of the best lawyers fighting for your Second Amendment rights. But I go to you. Why should people go to the website? Oh, the website's nice and simple. It's easy to remember, saf.org. And you can find out, you know, get all, besides becoming a member donating, you can also get all our news there. You know, every time we have a press, a press release like we did today because we filed a brief in Maryland. You can see it in the

news section and it'll be posted there and you can keep track of all our work. You can also see our team there. I think we post our tax information there so you can see our finances, our board of trustees. It's all there. You can learn all about us. So I think our website is nice, clean and simple. I encourage everyone to check it out.

And we also are all active on social media. You know, you can follow staff on social media. There I am. And you can follow my personal account on Twitter. I'm very active there as well. Well, excellent. Well, I got to tell you, I've so appreciated your time. And I especially appreciate your work here as well.

It's essential as Americans that we defend this God-given, precious right that's put in our bill of rights. So hats off to you for the work that you're doing. I'm going to encourage the audience once again to go to saff.org and sign up, become a member. But we're out of time. So I'm going to go ahead and let you go. if you hold on one more minute post-production to say her goodbyes, I'd appreciate it. But again, thank you for joining us on Church and State. Thanks so much for having me on.

I appreciate it. Absolutely. All right, ladies and gentlemen, there you go. Look, they're not that scary, okay? Yes, am I a Marine? Yes, have I been trained? Of course I have. But this thing's not going to go off.

I can hold it in my hand. And this thing is what keeps our liberties safe. So please join saff.org, become a member of it, and continue to fight for the Second Amendment. Church and State is brought to you in part by Colonial, I Spokane, Independent Agents, Finders Insurance, and Mark37.com. I'm Caleb Collier. I was born for a storm. Welcome to the fire. Hey, this is Caleb Collier, and I know you're excited for the Church and State podcast.

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