The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Matter of Facts: More Nightvision Nerdism w US Nightvision

Episode Date: January 22, 2024

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Welcome back to the MatterFacts Podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping guns and politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mofpodcast.com on Facebook or Instagram. You can support us via Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Rablis, and my co-host Andrew Bobo is on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. Welcome back to the of Facts Podcast. We are once again joined by John and Duncan from U.S. Night Vision to finish up where we left off last week. So if you're listening to this and you missed that, you should go back and listen to that because that was the episode that leads up to this, where we started off talking

about night vision, the history of it, how U.S. Night Vision got started, and we led up to making your first purchase and committing financial suicide and possibly angering spouses, but I'm not responsible for any part of that. It's worth it for cool guy points. Back me up on this, everybody. Like, Night Vision is an interesting world to get into because I feel like it's so talked about, yet it's it's an interesting world to get into because like i feel like it's it's so talked about yet it's still so niche but it is like legitimately one of the few superpowers that

average people can indulge in but where we wanted to start this episode off with was so you got your nod now what like walk people through this from the perspective of like they just they just loaded up the credit card they just raided the kids college fund they bought themselves their very first pbs 14 it probably came with a plastic jr and a skull crusher and they have the thing but where do y'all think they go from here other than like straight to instagram to show off because that's going to happen. Right. I guess I'll start and John can bounce some ideas. You know, over the years, I think the important thing, so step one is like we talked

about last episode, buy the night vision. Right. Whatever you get, whatever you can afford, Gen 2, Gen 3, mono, goggle, you know, get that out of the way and get that locked down. I think from there what one or two things needs to immediately follow a uh go out and start using your kit uh locally but more importantly i think it's it's paramount to get into a night vision training class right because as the years go, as your education and night vision goes on, train, train, train exactly because you iterate after each training that you do. So, you know, going in with this idea of what you need for a class is good, have a baseline, but go to more and more classes to tweak your kit, to tweak how you train, to tweak your, maybe you want to move

your pressure pad back or forward, or, you know, maybe this mag pouch train, to tweak your, maybe you want to move your pressure pad back or forward, or, you know, maybe this mag pouch isn't working or this, you know, this holster is not working. This flashlight's not working. I need more or I need less. You're only going to be able to iterate your kit from these courses. So I think immediately after somebody gets their night vision, it's to go out there either locally or travel to a class train train train and from there you learn to iterate your kit based on on what you're proficient with or what you're not proficient with and you can kind of supplement that with additional tools maybe you're not great at shooting at night with eotech maybe you just prefer a laser

or vice versa so you're not going to find that out until you go and do these classes. And I think that's probably, in my opinion, next step is kind of what I stress. Yeah. And I was just going to point out that like, I'm pretty sure I talked about on the last show, but like, you know, there's, I think people get really hyper fixated when we talk about night vision, they get really hyper fixated on like shooting with knots and i always point out to people i'm like you know there's so much administrative stuff that happens with night vision at least military operational use like you know it's it's a totally different environment to just learn how to walk around in the dark in the woods with night vision it's a very different set of skill sets to teach

your brain because like you i'm duncan i think it was you if not it was you john but like you pointed out that most people they're using a monocle for example there's almost always enough light like we're never in pitch black so there's always enough light that your your non-aided eye can see something but teaching your brain to put that picture and the aided picture together in a way that doesn't give you vertigo from hell, like that's something that takes practice. It takes training your brain and training your reflexes. There's just so much to be gained even outside of a professional training class by just putting the thing on your head and using it and retraining your brain how to do these kinds of things.

Because not many people in the civilian world have ever had to get their brain to merge two disparate images together from each eye. That's just not a common skill set. Yeah, what I was mentioning, I think, in our last week's episode is that the brain is really an amazing thing in the sense that it uses that image, that unaided eye image that adapts to the natural light around you. And wearing a 14 or a monocular of some model over one of your eyes, a lot of guys run a dominant eye.

It uses it and it almost increases their depth perception. Not true depth perception as a dual tube goggle, but enough that it is widely likely antiquated the PBS7. Because the PBS7, although it had two eye pieces, it narrowed down to the one ocular or one tube, and then that was your limited depth perception And they realized that over a period of time and years of training that the monocular Because there was some special operations. I think Milton back in the day had like that I think it was called like the M18 or something. It was almost like the predecessor to the PBS-14

or something. It was almost like the predecessor to the PBS-14. And really only the guys working in special operations, team guys in the Navy, they would run those and they were like, well, this works way better than a PBS-7. And so for that reason, you can gain a lot of aptitude from that out-of-depth perception of a monocular. And one last thing is that, yes, if you just go out and use it, you'll become better at it.

Like we said last week, it doesn't matter if you're, you know, I don't play tennis very well, never have. But if I went out and played tennis four hours a day for, you know, a year, I'd be a better tennis player a year. I would still not be good, but I'd be a better tennis player a year later than I was when I started. And so, yeah, getting out there and just using it is going to make you better. Yeah.

And, I mean, the other thing that just plain and simple using it, because, like, not going to lie, I work from work from home remotely like 95 of the time and when i got this whole setup i spent a couple of days sitting here in the office with it sitting on my head for an eight hour shift purely because it did two things it it retrained all these neck muscles that haven't had to you know hang a weight off the front of them for a couple years but the other thing it did was it told me loud and clear where in that helmet i had a hot spot or where the pads need to be adjusted like there's just there's something to be said and something andrew and i have kind of preached

about when it comes to like any aspect of training but there's something to be said for the fact that if you don't run your gear you never really know how it works so you have two options here you can either stick it on a shelf and log your cool guy points or you can actually use it even for the most mundane and boring things humanly possible because time is time time under nods it's still time under knots well i mean we've talked about it in the past where just i mean our, just our gear in general, like camping, take for example. I mean, we talk about how we need to get out and we need to use our gear.

We need to, we need to use, we need to figure out, and we need to know how to use that water filter. We need to know how to use that new stove, that fire starter, all that stuff. I mean, that's all tools in our toolbox. Night vision is just that. It tools in a in our toolbox night vision is is just that it's another tool in your toolbox and yeah if you just buy it and you're like okay cool i got i got the the object here and you stick it on the shelf to collect dust and you never use it and all that stuff i mean yeah if the day ever comes you need to throw it on and use it could you could you use

it i mean you could fumble your way through it probably but it's going to be very like you're just gonna not really know what to do and uh it's gonna look just weird it's gonna feel weird or or to build on what you're saying andrew before you you get it like phil said you get it you take your instagram picture you get your cool points blah blah blah and if you don't go out use it to become familiar with it and it becomes second nature that one time should it be needed in a real world situation you're sol right you might like you said andrew be able to fumble through it but you're not going to be able to fumble through it with any proficiency right you know and i'm not talking about you know time trials or anything like that but there's a difference between having it and being proficient and having it

just to have them. Right. So having it just to have it for your cool guy points, if, if that's you and you have a spendable income, sure. And if you're just, that's, if that's what you need to put on your shelf or put in your safe, to feel cool and whatnot. Okay. I mean, there is a crowd for that. But I think the important factor is you need to get it and train with it.

Get it and become accustomed with it. And not just shooting. There's so much more to night vision than just running and gunning. There's astronomy. There's photography. There's going for a walk. There's camping. astronomy, there's photography, there's going for a walk, there's camping, there's a prepper mindset to have it in your go bag and to have it in somewhere easily accessible or whatnot.

And a lot of people, in my experience over the years, they'll get a goggle to start or they get a monocular to start. And if they go the goggle, later down the road, they're going to get a mono pbs 14 to you know throw in their go bag throw in their range bag something extra if you get a 14 now and get a goggle down the road a lot of people instead of upgrading uh or selling off they're keeping that primary unit they got as a backup for the for the friends or a loaner setter or something so you know but those people those individuals are training with it. You know, they're iterating with their kit. Going back to what I said, you know, getting them PBS 14 today,

six or 12 months getting a, a goggle, you're iterating your kit. And you're, you're generally doing that because you find a need to enhance your tools capabilities. And so you're moving into that. You're moving into white lights. You're moving into lasers. You're going to more training. So I guess at the end, just use your stuff, right?

The more you use it, the better it's going to be for you. And that's pretty much what I have to say on that one. Yeah. No, I mean, and that goes to, I mean, using your night vision, whether it's a monocular or, you know, single tube. Yeah, no, you, yeah, I mean, right there is a perfect example. I mean, looking at the stars, I mean, the astronomy part of it is huge. I mean, you look up at the stars and it's crazy when you look up at the stars i mean the astronomy part of it is huge i mean you look up at the stars and it's crazy when you look up at the stars with your naked eye and then if you just

throw a pbs 14 or whatever you have and you throw that and you're like oh hey i can see a lot of more a lot more cool stuff like it's just crazy how much it amplifies the uh the star it is one of my favorite things to do in night vision is the stars like i used to call it like i used to make fun of guys that would like stargaze especially early on in the war efforts but you do you almost get lost in it you don't realize how many stars are in our solar system i mean there are probably tens of thousands versus like hundreds that you would see with your naked eye or human eye yeah exactly and so yeah i mean but that goes into like i mean other gear so you have your night vision now what and so that goes into uh like lasers i mean let's just hop into lasers and uh stuff like that because

it's laser lasers and optics i mean i'm a big fan of the high optics like the high mount uh i was a fan of the high mount i think on my ar i have the uh scalar works one uh 1.93 uh inch mount uh for i just have a hollison red dot on there uh but i became a big fan of that based off of just ergonomics and just how how you you because i'm not a big fan of how, you know, you scrunch down into the gun and everything like that. So like the, the higher amount, I've always liked it just because of how relaxed it, how relaxed my neck feels and how much of a neutral position, uh, that your head gets. Uh, and that kind of just kind of that transition to night vision, because as I, as I trained and as i got used to this high mount

uh and then i got my like i got the pbs 14 just pulling it up and just looking actually passive through the uh the optic at that mount and then keeping both eyes open and actually seeing like my brain would sit there and say okay i got I got the PBS 14, the white phosphor. And then now I see this, this red, uh, this red circle and my brain would merge them. So it was really interesting to walk through the woods.

And like, I see nothing on my right eye. My left eye is lit up with the night vision, but then I, I'm seeing a red dot, uh, over top of that. And so,

uh, and so I got to, you know, I got used to that. and then when I moved to duels shooting passive through with duels shooting passive and looking through that that red dot and then of course with the laser and stuff with an IR laser shooting shooting with a laser and stuff is just a whole fun game that it's it whole different, a whole other animal. It's pretty crazy, the difference in it. And just, I mean, how fun it is.

Right. And I think you had brought up lasers, so I'll dive into that. I think there's a ton of lasers on the market, right? You have Visible, you have IR only, you have clones that you have. You just have an enormous amount of options. Here at US Night Vision, we've really kind of streamlined those options into the three EIR designate family. So you have, you know, some options that are under $1,000. You have two, you have the one series right here. So it comes in visible

green or IR pointer only. You take a step up, still under a thousand dollars. You kind of get into the dual beam category, right? Which is going to be your visible green pointer and your IR pointer. And then you go into the IRB, which is a dual beam with a V cell illuminator. This one's at 2000, but there are still three other models that compete in that sub-thousand space that gets you immediately that next level, that next kit that you can start iterating on.

And then you can dive into white lights or IR lights and stuff of that nature. And when you dive into that, you know, we have a U.S. night vision branded Surefire M640Bs. So you have your white light head and IR head and you twist and you can circle between those two. You can go very popular in the lighting community malkoff heads either white light or ir we have some ir ones which are hard to find or you can go what i do personally i do dedicated

white light so i did the surefire before i'm currently with cloud defense rain 3.0 I'm currently with a cloud defense rain 3.0. These things are bright, brighter than you need in a way. But there's a lot of options, whether you do lasers first or light first. It really is going to come down to, you know, passive versus active. Which one are you more comfortable with to start? Which one do you want to iterate first? Because a lot of people are iterating small segments at a time rather than full uh kit iterations so you know what you saw years and years ago were a lot of

people just getting a bunch of stuff and hodgepodgeing it together going to a class this works this doesn't okay hot pot some more stuff and and so on and so forth now what you're seeing is a more tactile tactile way or more always more strategic yeah more strategic way that people are doing it they're iterating you know one piece of that that that arsenal at a time whether that be the light would that be the laser would that be the optic uh whether that be a sling you know um and there's so many options on the market um that you know at least for us here at us night vision in the laser category we have an option for everybody right we have you know we have the 2000 and below we have three models under the one thousand dollar mark um so whether you want visible, whether you want the whole kit and caboodle, we have it

at a price point that's nice. Some other great options that I'm big fans of over the years, probably one of the biggest fans of B.E. Myers. So I've been running them all, C1. I have an ER as well. Fabulous product. They just, they have a pretty penny. Some other great laser options, some restricted ones that not everybody gets to use. The Engals, fabulous, full power PEX and some of their higher tier iterations for some longer range stuff is great too. But that's not every day. And the Designate family of lasers is an everyday professional and civilian use product at a price point that the industry hasn't seen in a long time. And I think that's a great iteration category is the Designate family if you're looking for lamps, right?

Yeah. Now, before we get off the subject of lasers, there is one, I want to call it hotly contested, but I really feel like it's more of a user preference thing. But it bears pointing out that there's multiple ways to zero a laser. And everybody has an opinion on what the best one is. So off the top of my head, I can think of a converging zero, a parallel zero, and what they call an infinity zero, which to me still sounds like converging zero, but with extra steps. But like, do you have a personal preference or guidance for like the person who's just getting into this? Because this came about recently because like when I put that lasering module on my rifle, I immediately got crap from my dad.

Because years and years and years ago, I had told him and I stand by this. I don't see the point of lasers on firearms all the way up to the moment you start talking about night vision now it's now it kind of become it goes from silly fud stuff towards mandatory but it still begs the question of like do you have a personal idea of like zeroing i just did a parallel zero on this because i know that from every distance that i'm reasonably going to shoot with night vision i'm an inch my laser is an inch high and an inch right and it makes the math really really simple and i'm not smart enough to do complex math under fire no i'm right there with it i do the same thing

and it really is for that you know wherever i am i know where i'm hitting right so you know i i can't you know personal preferences are just that personal preferences right you know had i said i not did the same thing um then i have my own reasons for that but i happen to right because it's like you said it's just the easiest um so my advice is you're not going to know your preference until you go and train train train train so you know it expresses that need and requirement even further and you know maybe maybe you move your laser up maybe move it back maybe put it on the side rail or something you know um and then that changes zeroinging what you do and how you do it as well.

So there's a lot of trains of thought, but the best way in my opinion is going to be go out and figure it out, right? Everybody's going to have their own preference. And, you know, I think the best advice is don't necessarily take other people's advice, right? Their preference is their preference for a reason. That's good advice. Good advice.

Well, that's the thing is, you know, I can tell you to do it X, Y, and Z way, but maybe your brain doesn't work like that. Maybe that's not what your preference is. Maybe that's not where your proficiency is either so you know just because i do it away or john does it away andrew and you and phil do it a different way we're proficient in how we set our stuff up the next guy may not be the same way setup wise so the best answer is go out and figure it out right figure out what works for you what you're the most proficient with um and then just take it from there i was gonna say that like andrew and i had this conversation when i first started playing with this pbs 14 and he had advised me the same thing he did he told y'all a second

ago about how he was running his night vision on his non-dominant eye and he was like co-locating in his brain the red dot that is right i was seeing his left eye was seeing i can't make my brain do that and i don't know why like i can't if i really really really focus on it but it just doesn't come naturally to me it might it might purely be the fact that my brain is so hardwired to be right eye dominant that whatever right i see is what overrides it wants to override everything else so that's just one of those things that like if you like somebody who had experience with it and tried it said hey try this and i was like yeah my brain said no and there's there's it gets to the point really quickly where i'm like is it worth trying to rewire your brain to do something it obviously doesn't want to do or do you just try method number

two and see if that works better but i feel like that applies to almost all this stuff you know it's like make make the gear work with you right and i think i think it i think you said it best it's you know what point do you stop drop and move on right to option number two because you can't you can't beat a dead horse if option one doesn't work, it's okay. Sometimes option one's not meant to work, right? That's why we train. That's why we iterate. That's why we learn.

So going to option two, hell, going to option 10 if need be, right? Whatever it lands you at a safe, proficient level to execute whatever you need to do, that be shooting whether that be land now whether that be you know admin task whatever your journey to get there however many times you've had to relearn something or change something it's irrelevant the the end goal is the important fact is getting there the journey is irrelevant well said yeah and i mean it really sounds like uh i mean it really sounds like it's it just comes down to getting out and using it yep uh and that goes with any gear you have if you buy a new firearm a new pistol get out and put a few hundred rounds down range i mean i would say put a few thousand rounds down range but we all know how expensive ammo is right now. Get out and dry fire.

I mean, look at Mantis and dry fire with that. The biggest thing is getting some trigger time. And, and the same thing with night vision is getting time behind that, the, the tube and getting used to that 40 degree field of vision, getting used to that,

that if you're running just a uh single a single tube getting used to that one eye being covered and the other eyes not because that does screw up your brain at first um if you're running two like again just that depth perception getting used to it i mean i walk around my house still to this day i'll just i'll just i'll walk around my house at night um sometimes and it's more of i'll navigate the stairs like i'm purposely walking up and down the stairs and i'm looking down and i'm like i'm when i'm stepping i try to look down so i can try to get that feel for okay this is where the step is i mean i made coffee the one night under nods because i was like okay i'm reaching for the cup okay i'm reaching

for this okay i'm putting water i'm i gotta put in the, you know, in the pot and all this stuff. Like I'm trying to do this stuff under night vision because it's like, especially when you are, when you're working like the focus, that's the one big thing when you have, you know, what you have with duels and even with a PBS 14, but you have your focus. So you have infinity focus to where like, when you focus at something like on the other side of the room and you focus your night vision in versus when then we were sitting there and you're trying to like look down and you're trying to do something that's close up. OK, I take the time and I got to adjust my my my focus and so I can actually see what's going on and everything and getting used to doing that on the fly.

And then on top of that, like the night vision class I took. Yeah. on the fly and then on top of that like the night vision class i took uh yeah i mean the first night it was a three-day night vision class and the first night it was like okay this is kind of cool like i'm used to kind of walking around i'm used to doing this but now okay this is um only like my second time shooting under nods so okay like what do i got to do and it took a little bit to get used to and then on top of that by the third night we went from shooting pistols we started shooting pistols then we went to rifles and the third night, we went from shooting pistols. We started shooting pistols. Then we went to rifles. And the third night we combined the two and they turned it.

And the, the final kind of obstacles were, um, you were running or you were running. Like there's, there was times where you were running, you were running forward and you're stopping and then you were running backwards and you're stopping and you're running forward and you're stopping or you're running left and right. And you had to, not only did you have to keep your firearm in a safe direction at all times, cause you had people all around you. And so you had to be cognizant where other people were. So it was a really good class. And I suggest doing this is get used to looking left and right, especially if you, uh, under duels, when you lose that, you kind of lose that peripheral a little

bit. Um, especially when it's dark out, you lose, you kind of lose that peripheral a little bit um especially when it's dark out you lose you don't have that peripheral vision and so get used to turning left right up down look around and understand get your situational awareness under you um and then we got and then we go to lasers and uh getting used to shooting under night vision with the laser and then just shooting passive and all that stuff it all it comes down to is using your gear like that's exactly that that's all this comes down to is you can sit there and you can have all the gucci gear you want you can have the panel the panel night vision with the four tubes and all this stuff but if you don't get behind it you're not gonna you're not doing crap you not going to be proficient in it at all.

What I'm just going to interrupt Andrew is that what I just heard all three of you guys describe for the last 10 minutes is training. And that's what we talked about just prior to this online or going live was that without training on anything, it doesn't matter what you do in life, if you don't practice at it, you'll never become proficient. And that's exactly what you all through you said. You know, when I was transitioning from pistol to rifle, and then on the third day you were in transitions on both. And that's how you're going to get good at it is literally just putting it on and using it. And the more you do it, whether it's sitting at your desk for hours,

whether it's walking up and down the stairs, holding a cup of water or a cup of coffee, that's how you're going to become better at it. So it is, it's just putting the time in. That's what it is. 110%. And I just typed it into the chat to everybody. I don't have it handy, but if you check our Instagram, you can see a picture of Andrew making coffee in her night mask.

Oh, yeah. I forgot that. I forgot that you and I made coffee at camp the one night. Yeah, that was. So the long and the short of that is it was Prepper Camp this past year, and it was like the butt crack of dawn. Nobody else was awake yet and we were trying to make breakfast and coffee off the tailgate of my truck before we had to drive down the hill to um the vendors area and um yeah andrew extinguishes all the lights puts dual tubes on and

starts making coffee under night vision and i just couldn't help myself it was hilarious yeah but i mean if you got it use it it. Why not? Almost as much fun as when the two of us decided to go walk around in a night vision that last night we were there thinking that oh, it's Sunday night. Everybody will be gone. And we like rolled right up in the middle of like two of the organizers from

Prepper Camp who were very shocked at these two knuckleheads running around with night vision and helmets on. But you know, they were cool. Scared some poor old lady to death. I want to touch on really quick. I want to touch on raggles. Uh, yeah,

I was just reading that too. Yeah. Yeah. Uh, yeah. So basically, oops, that's you trying to pull it up.

Same time I did. So I know Holliston is making waves again. Uh, they like, they're pretty good at doing this in the industry lately. Their new Red Dot that they're coming out with, it's a thermal night vision. I mean, it's pretty nuts.

I'm sure you guys have seen it. Yeah, both of those models that Raggle is referencing were announced at SHOT Show 23, or 2023. So last year's SHOT Show. They were always, from my understanding, I don't have any range time with either of them. I have floor time and some demo time. But no, I'm not shot any rounds through any of them, so my opinion is strictly based on the technology that they present,

the price points that they present, based on the technology that they present, the price points that they present, and kind of comparing and contrasting those features to predecessors within the industry, there's always going to be a place for products, right? Regardless of how good or how poor they are, there's always going to be a place for something and everything. I think both of those will never accomplish what you may think they want to accomplish right they're always going to be both of those both of those models are very limited because essentially they're trying to shrink the form factor and the tech down so much you know it kind of goes back to that kitchen sink mentality. You're throwing everything at the kitchen sink,

and what's Realtor.com going to value your kitchen sink at? Is it going to be in the $100,000 category, or is it going to be in the $2 million category? When you shove so much tech, and I'm not saying they're bad products because they're not, and they fill a niche void i think but it shouldn't be in my opinion your primary you know you shouldn't look to those to replace pbs 14. you shouldn't look to those to replace uh rh25 from ira you know they just don't fill those gaps and they're probably not designed to um i don't know is it worth the money the the person's gonna make that for themselves like look at the t-rex arms were just testing

i forget the model but it's like a four thousand dollar uh was it sig 9t or something i'm probably butchering what it is but it's like a four thousand dollar holographic um uh on optics planet right now and i don't know there's a price point product everybody and you know this is probably on the low end comparable uh versus that in cost at least um to answer your question to this guy's question um probably one off like i don't i don't think you need to replace your kit with that uh probably cool as you know extra stuff but i wouldn't change everything that you have if you already got a good thing going i wouldn't go out and spend a thousand or fifteen hundred dollars to completely change how you shoot because both of those are going to completely change how you shoot i guess

i guess the way um kind of going off of what you said the more i think about it i would almost like i guess i would i would have a gun dedicated to my night vision such as the rifle i have now and once you get like a setup like you get your pbs 14 or whatever you want to get once you get certain things if you have if you have another firearm like then i would say yeah go for it maybe set another one up a different one and then honestly like and comparing the two because you could sit there and be like okay well i like this one better or whatever if it if it meets your needs then yeah okay sell all your night vision, do whatever you need to do. But if you're, if you're wanting to get night vision, I would actually say my suggestion would be get into nods, get in, get into the

package. Like, yeah, it's a, it's a pretty expensive road, but get into it now. Um, get, go down that road and fall down that rabbit hole because that's what i did and i've been pretty happy with it and then and then like i said if you can sit there and be like okay well um i'm pretty much i'm pretty content with my setup and all this stuff all right i'm gonna give this one a shot i'm gonna try this and see what happens and if i like it i like it if i don't then okay whatever uh but i mean it's an optic they they developed it a reason. I'm sure it fills a niche or I'm sure it fills a, a void somewhere, especially with the size of it and the weight and how,

like what it looks like and how it operates. And the price, yeah, the price is huge for it. And again, Holosun is shaking, is making waves. Like they are constantly making waves.

And that's what I like about the company. I hate that they're China, but I like that they're making waves and their stuff is good like when i first saw reviews on when they first came out and their stuff was like being drop tested and it was surviving these drop tests and it was surviving like the thousands upon thousands of rounds that leopold who's been around for way longer, their stuff is failing after a couple thousand rounds and certain things. And I mean, look at Sig. I mean, yes, Sig's China crap, too, but they're even more China crap. I'm not really happy with the Romeos and stuff. But Holosun, for some reason, whatever they're doing, they're doing it right.

And I have a handful, I mean, not a handful, but I have a few Holosun optics. I have a handful, I mean not a handful, but I have a few Holosun optics and the red dot on my rifle, I keep thinking about going to like, not necessarily an A-point or T2, but I've been thinking about going to a Tregicon, like the MRO. And, but as much as I've been wanting to look, I've been looking at MROs and I've been researching the crap out of them and thinking about picking one up, the Holosun red dot that I have on my rifle, I think I've had it on there for, I think, five years or so, give or take. Not failed, so why change it?

Exactly. I have beat the crap out of it, dropped it, all kinds of stuff, and has not failed on it. I think an important fact to mention is, you know, Holosun is at a cheaper price point but if something works you know it doesn't necessarily have to be the highest price item either right holston is not the highest price item in the optics or laser game right um sometimes they're not even the cheapest either sometimes they truly are a middle ground but andrew like you said you've had yours for for five years i've had mine for probably over three um beat the crap out of it still goes still work there's nothing wrong with it so why change it right yeah there's there's for sure better stuff out there here there's never not going to be better stuff um whether that be higher price same price or more or less excuse me there It really means something else.

Once you find something that works, stick with it. There's not necessarily a need to iterate past or further than what you got if it works. That's why my 503 Holosun, my next you know, the holographic, the Eotech, but nothing wrong with it. It's not high speed. It doesn't look great, but it works and it works every time. I did want to circle back around to something that we didn't talk about last time, and I wasn't going to until we started talking about the Holosun and it got me thinking about what's the what's y'all's opinion of digital night vision because I have my own speaking about like digital night vision specifically separate from thermal like aurora yeah yeah digital night vision is dependent on typically like infrared illumination so So not tooting our own horn,

but Chris and I back in early 2000 had a business partner who's been a longtime friend, actually got me started in the night vision industry. His name's Scott Henry. He's the former owner of IR Defense or IRD, which is the thermal company that Trijicon purchased a few years ago. And back in like 2000, probably 2001, 2002,

Scott wanted out of the night vision industry because he thought image intensified wasn't going to last much longer, which that wasn't the best call. But nonetheless, he invented I'm pretty sure I can say this with confidence that we were the first company to introduce digital night vision and we ended up selling it to Bush no actually night owl I think came in and over-offered Bushnell. But Bushnell came out with a line of products soon afterwards.

And what I learned or what I figured out very quickly was that digital night vision was never going to replace image intensified because of the dependency on infrared. Now, today's infrared illumination and diodes are definitely 10,000 times better than they were in the year 2000. But even then, it is dependent on that infrared illumination. And so where image-intensified sees, you know, stars 4 trillion light years away, it shows you the advancement in that technology. So I don't think that digital night vision will ever play a big part. I know that I think the company Psyonix, am I right?

Yeah. Okay. part I know that I think the company psionics okay I mean they've done some pretty cool stuff but you know there was a time where CMOS technology which was I believe somewhat directly related to digital my vision was going to change the game and it still hasn't so unless some company and don't you know don't discount childhood because i was staying quiet while you guys were talking i you know china's kicking everybody's butt in just about all technologies these days even thermal technology when you think the companies like ira for especially the money companies like IRAE for especially the money, they are producing some very, very capable and high definition thermal imaging on par really with Trijicon or VAE system cores. It's pretty impressive and they continue to make these huge leaps and huge gains in all

technology across the board. So I would say as of now, I don't see digital being much of a useful piece of my vision from what I use. I own a Psyonix. I haven't taken it out of my safe in probably two years. And I don't know if they've come advanced that in the last two years, but not that impressed when compared to image intensifying. So to add on to what John was saying, so digital, John, I don't know if you have the Aurora Black Pro or whatever model you have, but that's probably what you're talking about from Psyonix. Yeah, so since then, they've iterated into a monocular style with the osman

um that looks like a pbs 14 with some other stuff going on um but digital i think um so there's two things that come to mind when we're talking digital in the night vision space we're talking dod military side and we're talking commercial side i think in a lot of aspects psionics is spearheading and probably the only company that is spearheading digital on the commercial front. Whether that be in the tactical sense, whether that be in the maritime sense, they do very well, or the ground-based sense that the Auroras and the Ospens are targeted and geared towards. Then you have the DOD side with the IBAS program at Psyonix and Microsoft we're working on and it's still being tested. You have what's called NBD Next, which is

the idea of fusing analog and those digital components together, taking it and kind of, you know, CMOS perhaps. I know some companies are moving into that too. But essentially there's two trains of progress being made on the front through what Psyonix and Microsoft through the iVASC program started. The MBD Next program, which is being iterated and talked about. And then you have the commercial side with Psyonix with the OSPEN and stuff. So so digital is making strides i don't think it's going to surpass uh i squared or night vision analog technology anytime soon i think it's 5 10 15 maybe even 20 years out a lot of my personal experience with the digital spectrum

has been latency issues there's not enough hertz refreshing um refreshing to walk or run, let alone start shooting. But where this digital stuff really shines thus far is in your stationary, in your maritime, your videography and stuff like that. It's doing phenomenal in those segments, but it can't yet replace analog technology and strictly for that latency issue there's no other the only thing in my opinion in my experience stopping digital from surpassing what analog can do is truly that refresh rate if they can get that way up and it becomes true optically in in terms of there's no latency there's no lag or anything when you're looking around when that becomes a thing i think digital has a place on the table before that i don't think it does um and that's probably my my two cents on

that no no it's interesting because it's you you definitely digital you see a lot of it uh you've been seeing it more up and coming i've been seeing more i've been seeing it more up and coming. I've been seeing more, I've been seeing more companies like the psionics and stuff. I've been seeing them pushing the ability for it to mount to a helmet and, and everything. And, you know, they're marketing towards that. And I guess I keep trying to steer people away just because the digital and

the, the latency issues and stuff like that. I just, it's just one of those things where it's just like, okay, like that is cool. Like I would love to get a psionics just because of the fact that to record and to be able to go out and shoot and then record,

set up a tripod and record yourself, uh, doing it and then having that, the ability to do that. And so, yeah, that's what I would do it for, but I would never,

you would never catch it on a helmet. Not yet. It's not there yet. But with all technology, it's coming down the pipe. It's just a matter of getting the speed up and all that stuff on it. Well, that and what's it going to cost? A PBS

14 is going to set you back, let's just ballpark everything, three grand. The Auspin is already, from what I recall, $2,500, $2,600-ish. So to make it better, it's probably going to cost more money. So I think perhaps down the line, we're going to come to a crossroads where digital and analog are the same. What are you going to choose? There's going to be no latency issues with the digital. So what are you going to choose? There's going to be no latency issues with the digital, so what are you going to choose? I guess in my eyes,

that's a million dollar question because I couldn't answer that today because the industry hasn't iterated to a product or a technology that affords us that question yet. It's going to come. In years time there's going to be a product where you have a PBS 14 and whatever widget you have and they perform the same. What's the choice? I don't know.

The analogy I make is it's like comparing carburetors to fuel injection. And that sounds like a really dumb comparison to make in 2024 when everything runs on fuel injection. But 50 years ago, there was a debate about which, down to like what manufacturer, what model of vehicle, what usage do you go with fuel injection? Do you go with carburetion? Because at that point, carburetion was the old hand that was well-known and well-understood. Mechanics knew how to modify it and fix it. And fuel injection was witchcraft. And we went through a lot of the same thing.

Like when I was younger in the late 90s or early 2000s, I was working in mechanic shops. I grew up in the land of electronic fuel injection and OBD1 and 2 computers. And I just had a natural understanding of this information is coming into the computer. You can plug a code reader into it. You can read the data out of it and figure out what the problem is. But the mechanics that came along before me thought that was witchcraft. Like they didn't like the fact that this wasn't all analog and mechanical. So I look at it as, there's a point where, like

you said, it's almost like two bell curves intersect. There's this bell curve that says this works better than this does. And sooner or later, this one's going to go up, and this one's going to come, or this one's going to flatline, and eventually they're going to crisscross. And when they do, that's when we're talking about the decision making

coming in that you just described. Like i see i i can see digital eventually eclipsing analog but i don't see that anytime soon and i certainly don't see like for the perfect person that says do we buy night vision because one day it's going to be obsolete i don't think gen 3 night vision is going to be obsolete i think there might think Gen 3 night vision is going to be obsolete. I think there might be a day when people prefer digital to analog, but I don't think that's going to automatically make analog something you pitch in the trash or put on the shelf, if that makes sense. So I guess going off of night vision, we've talked about lasers. We've talked about some lights.

Let's talk about helmet like, helmet gear. You know, you get a helmet. What are some good – I mean, we talked about – I think the last episode we talked about Team Windy, then we talked about the bump helmet versus ballistic, the G24 mounts, the J-arms, the stuff that you guys sell. You guys sell an adapter that goes from a dovetail to, you know,

for the J arm for a bayonet style, stuff like that. So, I mean, what are some decent, like what's something to, I mean, we all like the,

like the look of the helmets, like with the operators and the movies and the, if you look them up on online and what they're running and all that stuff, but are, what are some key things to throw on a helmet? I've got something that I bet none of y'all are going to say, but it's super important and I'll go last. Although Duncan and John might beat me to it for all I know.

Okay. So I'll just go over, I guess maybe the best way to answer this for me is just go over what I use, right? So got a bump helmet. My helmet setup is, over the years, I've iterated it many a times. Right now, a lot of people don't realize this, but you can upgrade your helmet pads. A lot of people just leave with the get, and that's it. No, no, no, no, no.

I have, for many years, used 4D Tactical. It's like memory foam. I have for many years used 4D Tactical. It's like memory foam. For the last two years, or ever since Hardhead Veterans came out with their micro lattice, I've been using that. The airflow is phenomenal. The weight is phenomenal.

You know, if you don't, the only drawback to that micro lattice is if you don't run a headband, you have a big forehead like I do, you may end up with leprosy on your face for half an hour afterwards um so you know they include a headband for a reason um i've lost it too many times and you know i have a quick order button on amazon for a new one um you know that i have an sns mantis robe on it uh Comtac Freeze, to date myself. They've been working for a decade, no sense in replacing. On, what else is on there?

Wilcox G24. Counterweight, and that's kind of it. You know, I'll plug in my Princeton Tech admin light from here or there. That's my setup. Yeah, I mean, mine, it sounds like it's pretty similar. I mean, I have, shoot, the Sordans. I believe there's the Sordans.

EarPro, I'm kind of testing out. I'm not really, I don't know how I feel about it yet, but I bought the Unity Tactical, the Unity Tactical attachments that go from basically from mounted on the helmet down to the Ear Pro versus the ones that, like the Peltor ones that just pop out. So I'm kind of testing these ones. I like them.

I just, I need to do a little bit of mine. I need to do a couple of little tweaks to I need to do a couple little tweaks to them. Other than that, they're not doing too bad. I have the Tomahawk from TNVC that has the counterweight that goes in the back that's basically...

You mean the Mohawk? Mohawk, sorry. Not Tomahawk. I'm thinking about steak. So was I now. We're going to keep my dinner plans. right i i bought three of them tonight so but uh but yeah so uh so yeah i have that with the counterweight which i have mostly batteries uh back there a couple lead weights but mostly batteries uh and then i um i have a enforce actually the enforce weapon mounted light that you for the rifles it's the ir white yeah i have that and i it's honestly the best helmet light they are and like that's the thing is like i actually i bought it years ago i bought it for my rifle because it

just came out i was like this thing is actually kind of cool i like it i bought it and i was like this thing sucks like i completely like i took it right off my rifle uh decided i ended up buying a streamlight a streamlight protac and everything but uh that when i bought my when i got my helmet i put that on there uh i'm gonna buy a theorem um so the one thing i need to add to it is it's a theorem uh picatinny mount that kind of goes it rotates up it kind of rotates around um i've been doing a lot of research what's that spend 30 bucks on it and you won't regret it oh yeah yeah so that's going to be my next purchase for my helmet um but just basically because uh i see a lot of use with uh the one night vision class i was in um a couple of the guys had it and it was really nice. They could just shine their light straight up and it would basically umbrella and it would,

it was, I loved it. So that's going to be one of my next purchases, but it's cheap to, to, oh yeah. I mean, to think about it, cause most people without that, right. You just mount it and it's forward facing. So a $30 piece of kit that you over time going to classes and training and training 30 bucks now you instantly amplify your capabilities you have an umbrella light an admin light you have everything that you need for 30 bucks attachment which is a swivel i mean stuff as simple as that really can take you or anybody to the next level of what you're capable of doing no exactly um i'm running the i'm running the rhino mount on my helmet uh i do want to upgrade to the g24 eventually uh but the rhino the rhino mount's been just working great i thought about

upgrading the g24 and then kind of either either a sell the Rhino or B stuck it away and use it as a backup, uh, possible, you know, something like that. But, um, it's running great for me.

Uh, and then. Hey, Andrew, are you running your, are you running your 1431? Yeah. With the,

with, so did you, so you have the adapter for the dovetail? I'm guessing because the, the 1431 runs a dovetail, I'm guessing? Because the 1430 run runs a dovetail. Yeah. Okay, so you have the adapter for the Rhino arm. Well, no, the Rhino mount, that came with the dovetail.

It came with the dovetail adapter then probably. Yeah, okay. Yeah. So that your audience isn't confused. A Rhino arm by default is a bayonet interface. And then most goggles, dual tube goggles including even dual bridges for 14s they run off of a

dovetail adapter interface. So if you decided to upgrade you could easily do that because your 1431 is already a is already a dovetail but your particular uh so a rhino arm is going to be very compatible with like a pbs 14 but would not be compatible necessarily with a dovetail interface on a gargle. I see. Okay. Yeah. I honestly, like, I guess, um, I, when I got it, when I got the, when I got that Rhino mount and everything from you guys, I, I clicked it in, clicked the 1431 in and was like, cool. It works right away. I think I even, I guess I didn't even pay attention to, uh,

and was like, cool, it works right away. I guess I didn't even pay attention to the... Well, that's the thing, Andrew. Like, from us, we already do that for you in our facility, right? So if you... Yeah, I'm pulling up on it. Yeah, if you're getting a goggle, we're going to already put the adapter, or else... What's the point?

You're not going to use a bayonet, so why even include it? So we'll go ahead and upgrade it before you even get it out of the box. Well, thank you. I appreciate that. Yes, he has that. I call it a pyramid, which is a dovetail conversion, but I'm going to come back to you guys. I can't see you.

Okay, there you are. Yeah, that's exactly what you have. And very likely there was a period of time that Wilcox had some machining issues with one of their subs and they weren't pushing any g24s out the door and then we're selling you know a hundred goggles a month and there was no way for guys to attach it to so we started using this i i don't like it's i call it a pyramid but it's actually pyrm and it's literally the most lame thing i've ever i'm embarrassed to say but it's tip your rhino mount ah so

oh god i want to crawl into a rock right now points for creative marketing though the pyrm was an adapter that is inserted into your Rhino arm to accept the death tail interface. And that's why you have it. And it does work great. And it's a less expensive option because your Rhino arm is about 300 bucks. And then you have about a hundred dollars for the, uh,

for the adapter versus $550 for a G24. Yeah. Yeah, no, it's going to be, like I said, it's working great right now, so it's one of those things where I might just upgrade down the road or something. But, yeah, no, and I think, and then I have just a knockoff, Unity Tactical. I'm running one of the Unity Tactical green lights on the back of the helmet,

just like the little button that you hit. The sparks. Yeah, the sparks and stuff. So, yeah, that's what I'm running. And I have not invested in the pads inside the helmet. Talking to you, Duncan, I might have to research those, and I might have to grab some. Yeah, Andrew, to be honest with you, so if nothing so if nothing else, do the 40-tackle.

I ran those five plus years. The thing about that for your audience is because they're basically memory foam, if you're a heavy sweater, defunk after every use or else it's just going to be god-awful smelly. When it's cold uh they do become rock hard bricks um and that was the only downfall you know when i was living in florida that wasn't an issue it's never cold so that's great but you know living in north carolina now in california i have to be mindful of my environment so i switched switched to the micro lattice. You physically feel the airflow when you walk. I never had that before. Super comfy. They are rather expensive. It's, you know,

40 technical pads. You know, they have the new hive, whatever they call it. I was an early adopter of that when it came out but now they have some other designs those are great super comfortable 10 out of 10 would buy again but the micro lattice is a game changer it just happens to be rather pricey I think it's over 200 bucks

that sounds about right but I don't regret it don't regret it and I'd buy 10 more of them. If you don't want to, yeah, I mean, you can't regret when you're talking about comfort and wearing night vision, especially when you're talking about some type of an all-night use or all-night mission. Like comfort is going to be worth it when you're paying for it because to use it when it's uncomfortable, getting back to that skull crusher,

which is why we call it the skull crusher, not too many guys want to use that on an overnight mission. It's a rough one. It starts to really give you a headache. And then it's worthless if you can't operate on it because your head's thumping, then your night vision's not really aiding you in any way.

So I don't really have anything as far as like helmet accessories to add that y'all haven't already covered. Except for the one thing that nobody talked about, which is the simplest, stupidest thing on earth that everybody forgets about until something bad happens. A lanyard. Which sounds like a really

dumb thing to point out, but yeah. I just got a perfect eye roll out of Duncan. Okay, okay. And here's why. And here's why. Okay, I do not, I don't not consider retention to be important, but so many helmets natively come with retention already, right? So, you know, like, I mean, Team Wendy's, they come with retention. I mean, everything comes with retention. I mean, everything comes with retention. Our Recon helmet comes with retention.

Right. So, I mean, are there better options than the onboard stuff? Yeah. Because, you know, on my airframe, the stock bungees are not long enough. So I went out, Amazon got longer bungees, made that, and now my night vision doesn't smack me in the face or smack my helmet when it comes up. So, you know, some small changes,

but it's still the same segment of retention. Are you using a nerd or are you using, you know, what are you using, kinetic consulting or are you using just 550? Totally homemade, stitched it myself i have a piece of gutted 550 cord and it is tied to a piece of extra nylon webbing i had lying around my junk drawer with some velcro double stitch to it and you just whack it on the top of your melon and it's just there to make sure that your pbs 14 doesn't take a swan dive into the ground yeah i

mean i think i think phil that's probably the the least talked about most important thing though is is retention yeah i mean d and c it's one of those weird situations because like it's something we never talked about of course when i was using it operationally it was always with a skull crusher so i guess there really wasn't much tied onto except for maybe your ears, which would have been interesting. But like, I don't know. It's one of those things where like I either see people talk about it incessantly and they have some really cool $60, $70 retention system that they want to sell you on

or it's something that we totally overlook because it's a course you're going to do it. But again, I just want to loop it into the conversation for the new guys that are just coming into this. Like, especially if you're using, like, the plastic J-arm that comes with a PVS-14, especially if you're still using, you're still in the bayonet ecotexture or, you know, ecosystem, like, just understand that there's plastic involved for a reason, so you don't snap your neck if you hang your head up on something. there's plastic involved for a reason so you don't snap your neck if you hang your head up on something. But I don't work for the DOD anymore

where I get to tell my supply sergeant I need another one. I get to tell my wife I smashed a $4,000 PBS-14 and then get beat with a wooden spoon. So, like, you know, plan for things to fail. And a retention system is twofold because one part of it is the safety aspect so that if your goggle becomes, you know, knocked off of the carrier, it doesn't fall to the ground and smash and you get the word of spoon treatment. But also the other side of it is

a lot of guys were running, like when they were running duels, retention systems prevented any, you know, that wobble that you would get when you're going, when you're exfilling out of an aircraft, for example, you're going boots on the ground and guys were, you know, going a hundred miles an hour that they wouldn't lose their line of sight with their night vision capabilities. So the retention system really is designed to be two things, stabilize the device so that it doesn't move around so much.

And then of course it doesn't fall to ground and break so i guess we're kind of wrapping this up a little bit um where like i'm sorry not where what uh like out of everything we've talked about i mean is there anything else that you guys would add like can you think about anything off the top of your head that uh we might have skipped over that someone trying to get into the game that you would think is probably a key component that they should look into getting? A key component. Or do you think that we basically covered everything?

Buy batteries, lots and lots of extras. No, no, no. I will tell you that some of the add-ons I see, and I'm not discouraging it because it's a big investment. I do notice that there are guys or buyers that want to invest into a hard case to protect their device if they're driving around in a vehicle. In the 24 years I've owned the company, I think I used a hard case maybe three times and that was in the first year and a couple reasons why is it's big and heavy and bulky and you're not carrying it around anywhere because it's too big and bulky and then secondly you know storing it you're typically going to store it in a gun

safe where I do anyways but you're not storing it in a in an environment where it typically going to store it in a gun safe, or I do anyways. But you're not storing it in an environment where it's going to likely become damaged. And even when you're driving around in a vehicle off-road because you're going to a tree stand to go hunt your animals or deer or whatever in the morning, you know, you will get a little bit of movement around, but it's typically secured with your weapon. So I would just say that, again, it's not a bad investment, but at the practicality of it to spend maybe $150 on a good hard case, and we have them, we have custom made beautiful hard cases, waterproof and everything else, that would play a part where you don't have a gun safe. So like my gun safe houses all by expense of everything and it's temperature controlled if you're going to put your night vision out in a garage where there might be moisture or humidity then put it in one of those hard cases to store it in is a very it's an inexpensive insurance investment because it's preventing it from the environmental side of that

damage but other than that i don't think i think we've covered just about everything with regards because it's preventing it from the environmental side of that damage. But other than that, I think we've covered just about everything with regards to kitting out your system or kitting out your device. You know, an infrared emulator is key if you ever anticipate or plan on engaging targets, whether those be steel targets, steel targets animals or people in a self-defense situation a helmet is a you know it's it's pretty standard in my eyes but you can get away without having one the IR indicators the flashlights I'm a huge fan of the Surefire, which is why we only have it. I love that Vampire

because it does provide you both the white light when you might need it because you won't have the luxury of night vision or your night vision fails you, as well as the infrared illumination to add to like a DIR-1. So I do think we've covered, yeah, there's the DIR-1. And man, that thing, it's not doing it much justice.

That thing can literally fit in the palm of Duncan's hand. That's how small it is. I mean, look at the size of that thing. That form factor is incredible. It disappears on your rifle. You don't see it looking through your day outfit during the day. It all but disappears so and a battery pack when you're running goggles like a 1431 that 1431 battery pack already has

an ir infrared illumination and ir flashers that's a great investment or an addition and if you don't if you're running a 14 you guys already kind of directed towards any type of a IR flashing device. Like we sell the health star, I think is what I run on my helmets. So there's a huge, a tremendous amount of options out there. Yeah. And the one thing that I noticed just by doing when you guys first dropped the,

your guys's IR devices and stuff, the lasers is just the, how low profile they are. That's the one thing that really drew me to them. Because like I said, I got a D-ball and the way I have it mounted, it's on a 16-inch rifle and stuff. But I do kind of see it. Like if I put my hand on top to try to activate it, if I'm not using the switch or whatever like that, but I mean, I can see the top of it, uh, even with a taller mountain stuff, it's just the way, just with basically just with that angle and everything

coming out, it's, I see the top of it. So having that low profile, uh, laser, uh, that definitely, uh, I, I do like that. That's's awesome one of the biggest complaints over the last two years with guys in theater that were running pet 15s and looking through there especially like an eotech holosight i mean that thing's already laying so flat on your rifle i mean that takes up 50 of your sight picture so when you're trying to identify something in your sight picture is somebody wearing something on their lower extremities you're trying to identify something in your sight picture, is somebody wearing something on their lower extremities, trying to identify whether there might be explosives or something. It's very hard to see it when that top of that laser is covering 50% of your sight picture for your day outfit.

Most of the time it didn't interfere with your point of aim but it did interfere with your target so yeah we we're very proud and humbly proud of that dir line because the form factor is incredible that if you're looking for illumination i mean there's only one other you know laser illuminator on the market that even gets close to it performance wise which is the mall from b.e. meyers but you know it's it's almost twice as expensive and hard to get and it's just the form factor is pretty tough if you enjoy a second flashlight on your rifle that will get you hung up on something it's it's the laser for you. But otherwise, yeah, the DIR line is pretty incredible. Nice. Well, good.

Yeah. No, I got nothing else. I mean, yeah. So, I mean, obviously we've been talking a lot about the company and stuff like that. As a recap to the listeners and everything, where can everybody find you guys? Yeah, so they can find us at www.usnightvision.com

Google us, you'll find our phone number hop on the website our Facebook, Instagram are there or you can hop on our live chat and I'll see if I can't beat my four second response time and we'll start testing them. Do it! I got two more of positive

feedbacks today for Duncan and when he first started that thing I I was like, oh, please don't do that. I received so many compliments for this guy on something that I was very discouraging in the beginning. And I got vetoed between my business partner and Duncan. I was like, just give it some time. And guys love it. Guys are buying on the spot

because duncan's right there to kind of walk you through the process and hold your hand along the way it's it's been very very valuable yeah no it says a lot too i mean it says a lot when you are thinking about a company like this it's like okay well of course you know because you you go on these other websites and a lot of them they'll'll pop up and it's a generic bot and like a question. Yeah. Yeah. And so you're sitting there and you're like, ah, man, this isn't going to do nothing. But then when you start, you type in a question and all of a sudden, like you get a response that isn't a automated bot response. You're like, oh wait, uh, this person's alive and has a pulse. So, I mean, but it just says a lot about the company and you guys care about your customer service.

So that's awesome. Not many companies do that anymore. I'm just glad I didn't do what I usually do when I think I'm encountering an AI chatbot and I usually say the craziest things I can just to amuse myself. So that's really stuff that you can't say on this podcast? I'm kind of glad when I saw the live chat pop up on y'all's website. I just ignored it instead of doing what I was about to do,

which Duncan and I might have been having a very different conversation than what we'd been for the first time. Listen, you would be surprised at what I see at 1 a.m. PST. Some of these chats are... And over the years, John can attest to this, over the years, they're not customers. They're friends. They're family. They're an extension of our lives in some capacity.

It's the friends I got to deal with. Just the ones that are going to come in and bust my balls at 1 a.m. Are you up? What are you up what are you doing are you real and I you know some people I you know I know these people or whatnot or you get the randoms that are you awake question mark yep okay I have a question quick question okay well it's 1 a.m. you know I've already poured my bourbon for the night what you know shoot me. What you got?

But, yeah, no, our live chat is phenomenal. We probably have the quickest response time in the industry because I don't sleep. And if you pick up the phone, we probably also have the quickest phone call response time because John never sleeps. So you do get live support, and I think that's probably a difference maker for a lot of people is that instantaneous support can be a quick question can be a long conversation. We're here for it. Awesome. Just really quick. Everybody, when you go on to us night vision.com use code mof for 3% off as well. I will be getting that code up on our website and everything.

So you guys, I mean, thanks a lot for coming on a second time. It was, it's always a pleasure talking to you guys, John. I know I've talked to you a handful of times on the phone and everything, and we've always got good conversations,

but it's good to get you guys on. And I really, I can't wait till we get to have another conversation. And honestly, like I said before, we'll have to get you guys on. And we don't even need to talk about night visions. I don't know. Talk about politics. So let's get your real feelings out there.

If you can't get a drunken rant. I think we're probably all very like-minded. That would be the positive aspect of that. But again, when you start getting Phil, especially all worked up over things that we might start, you know, it may go from rated G to rated R quickly. Okay. So you'll have to have your finger on the button. Right. There you go.

You know, I do actually have this video that I'm not going to play right now. That's all queued up and just waiting for the next time Andrew sends me into orbit labeled blood pressure warning. And it's just for those moments where I've completely lost my mind or run off the reservation, which hasn't happened yet, actually. We all have those moments. Yeah. Usually it coincides with Andrew poking me with a stick and my whiskey intake being just at the right level.

stick and my whiskey intake being just at the right level. It coincides with the administration that is now running our country, which is a failure. We weren't supposed to start with the politics, but it's

looking forward to November of 2024. That's for sure. The new opportunities. I'm looking forward to Mad Max. Honestly, I've got my post-apocalyptic warlord outfit all picked out and everything. I think I'm going to go Lord humongous with the hockey mask, the short shorts and the combat boots. Keep it a real.

Well guys, thanks again for coming on. Greatly appreciate it. And anytime you guys more than welcome. Anytime, uh, just hit one of us up and, we'll make plans. Sounds good. Thanks guys. Yep.

So we'll go ahead and punt this one out the door. This has been John and Duncan from us night vision, indulging us on another night of night vision, nerdism. And if y'all haven't already taken the, uh, plunge, I suggest you go to us night vision and,

talk to Duncan on the live chat. Just be polite because he's not an AI chat bot. He's a real person with feelings. And if you'd rather have a phone call, talk to

John. And if you'd rather not get into Night Vision, I don't know why on earth you're listening to this. But maybe we'll twist your arm.

But good night, everybody. Talk to you another week. Bye. Take care, everyone. Bye. Take care, everyone. Thank you.