The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Matter of Facts: Seeing in the Dark w/ US Night Vision

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

http://www.mofpodcast.com/www.pbnfamily.comhttps://www.facebook.com/matteroffactspodcast/https://www.facebook.com/groups/mofpodcastgroup/https://rumble.com/user/Mofpodcastwww.youtube.com/user/philrabhttps://www.instagram.com/mofpodcasthttps://twitter.com/themofpodcastSupport the showMerch at: https://southerngalscrafts.myshopify.com/Shop at Amazon: http://amzn.to/2ora9riPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/mofpodcastPurchase American Insurgent by Phil Rabalais: https://amzn.to/2FvSLMLShop at MantisX: http://www.mantisx.com/ref?id=173*The views and opinions of guests do not reflect the opinions of Phil Rabalais, Andrew Bobo, or the Matter of Facts Podcast*The MoF boys sit down with John and Duncan, President and Director of Strategic Development for US Night Vision, to talk about how to see in the dark. If you've ever been curious about the financially crippling world of light intensification, this is an episode you don't want to miss. Use Promo Code 'mof" at US Night vision for 3% off purchase.https://usnightvision.com/https://www.instagram.com/usnightvision/https://www.facebook.com/usnightvisionMatter of Facts is now live-streaming our podcast on YouTube channel, Facebook page, and Rumble. See the links above, join in the live chat, and see the faces behind the voices. Intro and Outro Music by Phil Rabalais All rights reserved, no commercial or non-commercial use without permission of creator prepper, prep, preparedness, prepared, emergency, survival, survive, self defense, 2nd amendment, 2a, gun rights, constitution, individual rights, train like you fight, firearms training, medical training, matter of facts podcast, mof podcast, reloading, handloading, ammo, ammunition, bullets, magazines, ar-15, ak-47, cz 75, cz, cz scorpion, bugout, bugout bag, get home bag, military, tactical

Welcome back to the Matter Facts Podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping guns and politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at mwfpodcast.com on Facebook or Instagram. You can support us via Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Rabelais, and my co-host Andrew Bobo is on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. And welcome back to the Matter Facts Podcast. I am starting to show off with a frog in my throat, which is typical for me, but blame the constant allergy season down here in South Louisiana. Welcome back to the show.

If you're listening live, drop comments on us. Let us know what you want to talk about. We have with us John and Duncan from US Night Vision to talk about either the most financially crippling cool guy thing you can purchase as an adult or the absolute cheapest superpower real people can actually afford. So, first of all, thanks for coming on the show, guys, because like our audience doesn't want to listen to the two of us drone on for an hour about this subject. But y'all know better than we do anyway. Right, right. about this subject, but y'all know better than we do anyway. Right, right. So, you know, there's a ton of things to talk about, gentlemen. Yeah.

From just that question alone, there's, you know, that could be its own segment, you know. But it's not. That's not the purpose of today's segment. But, yeah, there's a ton of options, and there's been options throughout the years that really, you know, progressive price points, progressive capabilities. So I think, you know, John and I can dive pretty deep in the rabbit hole on some of this stuff. So happy to be here. Yeah, no, I'm glad you guys are here. I know, like we talked about on the phone a couple days ago, I talked to John when I bought my 1431s from you guys.

Talking to a rep from the company is one thing. When the president calls you, like, hey, thanks for the purchase and all this stuff, it was like I was a little floored because, like, yeah, John called, and we ended up talking for like an hour, and then that just led into, hey, I have a podcast, and would you guys like for like an hour and then that just led into a, Hey, let's, I have a podcast and would you guys like to come on and stuff like that? So, uh, really thankful for both of you guys to, to come on and give us the time. So, um, without further ado, um, John, let's start with you. Duncan, we'll get to you in a second, uh, as far as your background and stuff like that. Uh, but John, I guess give us a, like, I mean, cause we have so much to cover.

Uh, give us just like the history, like, uh, your history. And then like, what got you into the company? Like what got you into night vision?

Well, I started the company with a business partner, Chris Bird, who's not here today, but, uh, Chris and I worked for a company called NAIT. And when I went to work for NAIT was in 1994. And I was just coming out of a very

short lived career in law enforcement as a young deputy. My dad was a homicide detective for the same county, San Joaquin County. And I wanted to follow in his footsteps. And then it wasn't the right career path for me. So kind of lost at the time I went to work for my friend, Ken Jamison and they had just started in the early nineties messing around with a little bit of night vision. There was all surplus at the time. There wasn't really a night vision industry by any means in the early to mid 90s.

In a sense, Ken and a guy named Scott Henry started that by buying surplus image tubes from DRML programs with the Air Force bases. And when I was first introduced to it, I was fascinated to say the least by the technology. Again, seeing in a dark room where nobody else could see you and kind of my wheels started spinning and realized that in the early to mid 90s, crack cocaine had become kind of a thing of the past and methamphetamine had become the new hot drug. And as it grew, law enforcement's response to it was doing, you know, raids and serving warrants in houses that they believed that methamphetamine was being manufactured. and so i started connecting the dots the best i could and

brought this to the attention of my dad and his agency like hey before you go you know throw some flash bangs and kick a door into a dark room like you're gonna get caught off guard look at this technology and so my fascination became more of a love of it. And then the next thing I know, I'm directly involved with this company, NAIT, to kind of promote this technology. And I did that up until late 1999 when, I don't know if you guys are old enough to remember, but a Y2K was a thing. Oh, yeah. The whole world was going to go dark. The computers wouldn't know how to perform, and basically the world was going to go dark. And so at that time, I really was pushing the night vision narrative to even other avenues and my business partner Chris and I

were employees of an AIP and we were running the company for the most part and we just decided one day actually on a trip to Louisiana. So we took a trip out there to go meet with some guys that believe that existed and you won't get into that as far as I thought that was these guys were willing to pay for spin you know tens of thousands of dollars to go on picture so we had a 20-fucking-hour drive there. And so we talked about things and we decided or determined that, hey, we're doing all this work and the company's making all the money and why don't we just do this for ourselves. So after that trip, we decided

to start US Night Vision. Started it out of the kitchen of a 700 square foot home that I was renting and then the rest is history so we it just you know a year and a half later 9-11 occurred we were off to the races and with God's blessing and direction We grew our company over the last 23 years and here we are today. We brought Duncan on board just to give Duncan some credit. He wasn't steel. We stole him in exchange for, I guess, made him an offering he couldn't refuse. What I love about Duncan, years and what I love about Duncan for an older guy, I'm 55, I'm definitely a 55 year old guy who's more steady more ways, not very current, it's hard to stay current with the, is it fast as advancements of technology moves. Duncan's a younger man and he is is very relevant in terms of space flight,

and I've learned a lot from him in the short time that he's been with us. That's why I asked him to participate, because he's going to be able to probably tell your crowd, teach your audience a lot more than the old guys did.

So, Duncan, with that layup, what got you into this world? First of all, not to totally put you on the spot, but how old are you? Let me ask you this. How old do you think I am? You can't ask me that.

I am 26. Because I learned a long time ago that with women, you underestimate their age. With men, you overestimate it. Andrew was close. I'm 27. That's just because I slightly remember when we talked on the phone a couple days ago.

I'm old and I forgot. That's cheating. To answer your question, the real answer is right time, right place got me into working in the industry. I was, there's no other way to put it. I was kind of heavy into airsoft a decade ago. And, you know, when you're 18, 19, living at home, there's no bills, you know, you're working

overtime, you got free money. So, you know, at the time, that's why I skipped going into a monocular, into a goggle. When you have no expenses, you can just, you're rich, right? So that's how I got into night vision, was buying a Sentinel from TMEC actually about a decade ago. And then right time, right place led me to start working in the industry. Started at the bottom, worked my way up. And then around Halloween, John and Chris snatched me. And the rest is kind of history.

But, you know, like John was saying, I do stay current on social media forums. I do stay current with manufacturers internationally, domestically. What's next for the military? What's next for the commercial market? More importantly, trends in tube performance, trends in system performance, housings coming out. So we can dive into all of that. But, you know, long story short, really is the right time right place um for me to that's how i got into night vision was just you know luck of the draw uh wasn't looking for it i

don't know how you really look for work in a night vision industry uh per se so it was really right time right place um all through airsoft oh wow and but that's the thing is like the airsoft industry it it's it's growing and it's become pretty big uh i mean yeah so it's it's funny you bring it up i was actually just diving into the numbers last week uh airsoft airsoft's almost a two billion dollar global and the u.s i mean it's like 1.78 if if I recall correctly, and the U.S. has over 60% of that. And that's just 2022, 2023. So it's only going to continue to grow and exceed a $2 billion global business. So as much as it's, you know, as regulations on guns and firearms happen, you know, Airsoft also downstream from that.

But Airsoft's a great outlet to test communication, to test out team dynamics, to test out your kit. Back then, even a decade ago, I was heavy into the Cry stuff. Cry Kit, JPC 2.0, Airframe, all that stuff. And you have a massive audience in the airsoft community who are like-minded like myself who when they get into airsoft it's their real steel kit right the only thing that changes is your airsoft mag and your firearm so you know there's been a big shift outside of airsoft quality kit equipment, you know, and knockoff products.

And a lot of real steel shooters or even just airsoft shooters themselves utilize real kit. And real kit is night vision. It's real lasers. It's real, you know, spirited systems, cry precision, LBT. And that has shifted over the last decade. But Airsoft's a huge market. Yeah, and that's what's interesting is I've noticed there's some Airsofters out there and some of the videos I've watched online because you have events like the Milsim West.

I mean, you have these huge events. American Milsim, Third Coast Airsoft. Yeah, you have these huge events that, I mean, they're built on team dynamics, communications, like all that stuff, tactics and all that. What's interesting is I've seen a lot of individuals where, I mean, they'll spend the money and they'll get legit gear. And, I mean, actual cry. They'll get, like, actual cry uniforms, actual cry, like, get the good plate carriers with the good plates and the communications. They'll get the Peltors. They'll get the stuff.

I mean, yeah, there's a lot of knockoff, like some of the lasers. And there's a lot of knockoff equipment out there. But they'll spend the money and they'll get it because not only can they utilize it for the middle sim, but they can also then take it and they're, okay, we're training with exactly with what we're going into a fight with, if something were ever to happen. And so they're spending the money. And so it's not just like, hey, I'm an airsofter. I'm going to buy this cheap set of night vision goggles that are $100 or whatever that look real, but they're not. No, they're spending the thousands of dollars on legit night vision.

They're spending the thousands of dollars on lasers and all kinds of stuff, lights and everything, to make their guns completely realistic to what they are actually going to carry or would carry. completely realistic to what they are actually going to carry, uh, or would carry. And, uh, and that's the thing is like, I mean, when we're looking at a, uh, a world that we live in currently, uh, where, I mean, crap is, it's happening all around us. And the fact that we might have to defend ourselves at any given moment, um, the fact that someone is training with their gear, because like the, the classes I've taken and everything, the motto is, uh, to train to become a better, uh, a better, um, uh, a better, a well, uh, it's a more informed, you know, a citizen, a well-armed citizen and everything. And so it's like, when we want to sit

there and we want to learn and we want to do this, like the best thing to do is train like you fight. I mean, that, that's a saying that was not, not it was it's not a saying that came from me but it's hey we're going into this let's train let's uh how hey you know like the classes that i take one of the the instructors are like well when you're carrying it's a handgun class how do you carry do you carry outside the waistband every day well no i inside i inside the waistband okay well do the you carry outside the waistband every day? Well, no, I inside the waistband. Okay, well, do the entire class inside the waistband to where you're drawing from inside the waistband and you're firing. And that's very, like, that's pushed in the classes.

So, you know, train like you fight. I mean, that's a saying that, like I said, it's been in the industry for years, for many, many years. So for the fact that the Airsoft is kind of like, and I mean, that's the thing is with all the rules and regulations and training. I mean, just recently, the ATF, they reclassified simunition rounds on importation and stuff like that. So, OK, well, where do I go? Well, Airsoft. So, yeah, Airsoft is a viable industry.

A hundred percent. And kind of tying it into, you know, night vision, you know, a decade ago when I was much heavier into Airsoft than I am now, you know, you'd go to a third coast event. It was an, you know, the very popular one. It's at gti government training institute in barnwell south carolina they do they host various milson company and events but also do a lot of real steel um shooting training there as well um and some other stuff but you know a decade ago out of 200 people 20 maybe 30 tops would have night vision.

And you go to events today, 80, 90% of people have some form of night vision and IR laser. So over the last decade, airsoft market in conjunction with, you know, real steel accessories, night vision, laser devices has really become rather prolific in that space. For a decade ago, it was far and few between. So I think that trend is going to continue to arise as more people, you know, as more bands happen and people shift focuses into other industries like Airsoft. I think there's just going to be this new level of expectation when you're playing Airsoft is most of these end users on the

field are going to have real kit right the the days of of clones the days of you know cheap china alibaba alternatives are gone these people want to train with the real kit and the only way to do that nowadays is airsoft so i think as the time goes by just more of that yeah and i think you you can chalk that up to a lot of veterans that came out of theater i mean you have a you have such a huge pop tens of thousands tens and tens and tens of thousands of veterans that came out of theater were in combat and again if you think about what guys are buying even our even our kits are um on target kit which is really a polite way of saying a gunfighting kit because that's what it is is you know the same thing that guys have in their

loadout kits like what you're seeing is really just a continuation of the war that's now ended in Afghanistan OEF that has been over I think that if Duncan was to run numbers not that we asked because it's not our business but through just my communication with a potential customer the next thing I know is like yes he was in Kandahar, you know, this is what he did. And he's just like, realizing that when he was there, he had, he had these tools that allowed him to have whether it's a superpower, just stay alive. And now he's a civilian in the United States, and he sees the deterioration of America and the progressive movement.

And his concern that, hey, I think, Andrew, you mentioned it a minute ago, just like we live, we're living in a time where it feels like crap's about to hit the fan at any time. And if crap hits the fan, how do I protect my wife and kids and my family and myself? And we know the best way to do that is to kind of replicate what went on in a foreign land for 20 years. So, you know, guys, yeah, I mean, you look in your safe, you probably have more that you have more AR-15 platform, excuse me, rifles than you need. And so I think people are saying like, well, I can do, I only really need two or three. I don't maybe only need one squared away carbon to protect my family and protect myself. What else do I need to add to that to really make it a full kit? Well,

we need, you know, body armor, maybe a plate carrier, but we need the night vision we need the thermal which we haven't really talked about yet but i know that thermal has become so advanced and so much less money i mean if i go back when i first started my company thermal was just like out of most people's budgets you know you're looking at 12 10 12 000 20 years ago which would be the equivalent of even more now and and with the advancement of these clip-on thermal devices like a cody or a product like the cody there's others that are much less expensive than the ecody but jerry 5c what's that the jerry 5c yeah yeah like the jerry like you know for under five thousand dollars you put it on the front of your 1431 or your pbs 14 your 31 delta and now you've got thermal overlay if a guy is on your property or if a person is on

your property and he's triggered a camera knows that you're looking for him even if he's laying down prone on your property trying to hide from you you really can't hide from it he's just like i run an edge detect mode on mine and it just outlines his body i mean if he's trying to hide from you behind a tree you'll just see him out lying behind the tree if he's laying on the ground prone you'll just see him laying on the ground prone and it's really a very um a very practical technology but at the same time it kind of clears out everything that it's doing so nothing can talk more about that yeah no uh no thermals uh i mean, geez, we could talk about that. That's another podcast. I have a friend of mine that has an E-Cody, and that's my next goal is to get a clip on thermal.

The new E-Cody is, I think they're about eight grand, if I remember right. But the Jerry, they're about three or four. Right. they're about three or four right so my my thing about thermals and i'll just briefly uh to discuss it is you know we need i look at thermals through the eyes of covid right let's look at all of the advancements that china has made to the thermal market right infrared um they can make it faster they can make it cheaper um not necessarily better but it doesn't necessarily also have to be better. We're looking at products that are somewhat in the same realm, but Inforay, which is manufactured in China, they do it quicker, faster. And unfortunately, because they do both of those, they do it better.

And it's become more prolific in in the hunting space it's become more prolific in the everyday prepper space handheld thermals so companies like ira infray companies like um armacyte envision trigicon the ones who are making thermals they're all making or striving to make more additional kind of more cost-conscious models that fill more roles. So thermals, there's nothing wrong with the China thermal. You know, during COVID, China's police, you'd see it all over the news. They'd have heads-up displays like F-35 fighter helmets reading people's temperature in the streets. We don't have that.

I mean, if we do do it was never published so you know they're just iterating a lot quicker than we are or us-based companies are i think and you're just doing it cheaper um and and you know because of covet a lot of people no longer necessarily have the same extra income we're not getting a coveted check we're not, you know, inflation is at an all time high. Nobody's expenditure income is what it was five, 10 years ago. So when you have these options coming into the market that are more budget friendly or cost conscious, they're just going to be popular from the get go. And I think, you know, some of these China thermal manufacturers fit that

ticket to the T. Your Jerry 5 or your Jerry 5 CE5 battery pack or non-battery pack, they're like 4,000 or a little right in that range where other in the same realm products are double or triple the price and you do get more out of those more expensive products don't get me wrong you know a jerry five jerry c5 is not an e-cotton right not right it's based on that but it doesn't have all the same features it doesn't have all the same quality requirements that saffron does it just doesn't but i think in the commercial space a lot of commercial end users who maybe have no military

experience no experience on this kit or their or their you know group of people don't have experience they're fine with with the jerry ce5 you know they don't need that nine thousand dollar clip-on nothing wrong with that9,000 clip-on. Nothing wrong with that $9,000 clip-on, but for the everyday person, do they need, do you need a heads-up display? Do you need comms capability? Do you need to be able to have ATACs?

No, they just don't. So because of that, those, you know, alternative options, those less expensive options are pretty fruitful in the industry because of that. Yeah, and that's the thing. I guess let's get into that. I know we talked about this on the phone a couple days ago. For one of our biggest questions we get, it's, where do I start? Whether it's preparedness, where do I start in the preparedness world? Like, you know, food, water, supplies, all that stuff. You know, where do I start with an AR, with an AR platform? How do I build it or whatever? One of the biggest questions we've gotten was,

where do I start with night vision? And before he cuts you loose, this is the other big question we keep getting over and over and over is is gen 2 worth considering for entry level because like uh really quick like me personally like i started off with i started off with the pbs 14 um it's basically i bought a i bought a helmet setup i think it was i saved up around seven grand um and i bought it was a helmet uh it was a ir it was the d ball the a2 the ir it was a infrared laser with a green uh visible um it was a pbs 14 with the mount the helmet a team windy bump helmet and all that stuff for like seven grand um i ran that for a couple years uh phil got the got the thumbs up from the wife to go ahead and buy. No, he's discounting the story.

What happened was we were out camping with a bunch of friends, and a buddy of ours who encourages bad decisions walked up to my wife, handed her his PBS-14, turned it on, handed it to her, pointed it up at the stars. And her head craned... It was done. Yep, her head craned back and she said, Phil, we need one of these. And I just shouted at her into the dark. I'm like, you know how expensive those things

are, right? She said, I don't care! And that's what happened. So basically, I sold him my PBS14 and I bought the 1431s from US Night Vision. So basically, yeah, so basically, yeah, I sold him my PBS 14, and I bought the 1431s from U.S. Night Vision. And that's the thing.

I was wanting to go dual to upgrade, and, yeah. So anyway, and that's my road of getting into it. Like, yeah, I dropped $7,000 that I saved up, but I'm a single dude with, like, I do, like, I'm not, you know, I live by myself. I don't have a dog. I don't have kids. I don't have a wife or girlfriend or whatever. So like, I do have some extra money that does come in that I don't really spend anywhere else unless I choose to. But for the average person, I mean, where, like, where would you guys start? Like, what would you guys start with? You want to take it Duncan? Sure sure so I guess I'll try to tackle both questions at once because I think they play on to each other so

unfortunately within the industry in a lot of cases there's a unfortunate stigma around gen2 they think gen2 is is for lack of a better term, total crap. They think it's Gen 3 or nothing else. Well, the reality is from a technical standpoint, there are major differences in performance from your most commercially common Gen 2. Think your photonics echoes, think your NNVT tubes to something like an L3 or an LBIT, right? They're just, you know, A at the face level, Gen 2 versus Gen 3. From a technical perspective, on average, the Gen 3 is going to be, you know, relatively brighter. That's accomplished through luminous gain, generally going to have higher signal to noise. So you see more perceived image versus static

or analog noise in the Gen 3. But again, all that is dependent upon specs. Photonis, which is Gen 2, Netherlands and France manufactured, they have their mil-spec line. The luminous gain, which is most commonly the delta between Gen 2 and Gen 3 in a lot of cases, is the same on the gen 3 spectrum so you know this idea that gen 2 is just crap and it's gen 3 or nothing else is i think rooted in some misinformation because there's some there's some spectacular gen 2 out there and you still have this amazing superpower. Is it less expensive than than Elbit? Yep. Is it less performance? Yes. Is it a total crapshoot in performance? No, no, no, no. Some of the Gen 2 is not necessarily practical like Photonis' mil-spec line.

It gets to be very expensive. It's more expensive than Gen 3. They have a line like the Echo line, which is less expensive. The NVT stuff is all you really need, again, when you're using it under normal nighttime operating conditions, because when you have a lack of light energy, so you're in a tunnel or a cave, which we don't see that here in the US, but when you're in darker conditions like that, it doesn't matter if you have the most advanced unfilmed Gen 3 with the highest figure of merit,

because both of them will still struggle when there's no light in g4 to amplify and that's where infrared illumination comes in and you do hear some of the super tactical guys will tell you you can't use infrared the enemy will see you well we're not really let's be honest we're not dealing with an enemy in america that's running around my vision wondering if you have a superpower yourself so i agree with duncan that gen 2 is a is a great way to start and for most people using it under normal nighttime operating conditions outdoors in the middle of a field when you're looking for coyotes to hunt or whatever gen 2 will definitely do the job

most of the time if not all the time if you're budgeted for the extra money you know i'm a big buy once cry once guy i believe in that and if you know if you're going to spend 2 000 on something that might be good or 3 000 on something that may be great and you have the extra $1,000, then by all means do it, but you're not going to suffer from the Gen 2 by not doing it. So I just wanted to expand it. Gen 2, it's true that Gen 3 has higher performance in some of those cases. Photosensitivity response is definitely a big, that's the main difference between gen 2 and gen 3 is the gallium arsenide photocathode in a gen 3 versus a multi-alkali in gen 2 because gain uh signal the noise resolution we're seeing all that with photonsonis and MVT, right? Yep. Duncan, those specs are almost all equivalent,

but the photocathode sensitivity or photoresponse is the difference between a Gen 2 and a Gen 3 primarily. And I'll build on that for a second. So, you know, again, Photonis makes Gen 2, but unfortunately people have this stigma around Gen 2. Photonis is Europe's provider of night vision, right? Which is bigger than America, right? As U.S. citizens, we have privileges to own night vision

that civilians in other countries just can't. But Photonis is Netherlands' provider of image tubes and systems. So for anybody to claim that they're subpar in any means or you know below any kind of standards is is just foolish because they're a global manufacturer and a global standard in night vision and they make phenomenal products nbt is a phenomenal budget option as well we're not saying i think it's important to note NBT is a phenomenal budget option as well. We're not saying, and I think it's important to note,

John and I aren't going to say that NBT that we offer is better than Elbit. It's just not. Performance-wise, it's just not. It's better priced, right? But I think it's price conscious to the entry-level person. Two, if you have some expenditure income and you want a second set, NBT is a great option. If you want to a second set, MBT is a great option. If you want to get into it, MBT is a great option.

I was just flying back from North Carolina back here to California over the holidays, took an MBT-14 with me. John, you've seen the pictures. At 30,000, 35,000 feet, 1,350 figure of merit, so a rather low threshold FOM tube, Gen 2. Phenomenal picture. Phenomenal picture. And the only light in that picture is from all space, 30,000 feet over deserted mountain ranges. You don't have light pollution. You've got the stars, you've got the moon, and it's pitch black in an airplane. So to be able to see something out of nothing at a $2,700, $2,800 PVS-14,

that's phenomenal, right? We're not saying you're going to be better off than the guy with L3 quads or a 31 Delta. Nobody's saying that, right? But I think to answer your question, no, Gen 2 is not crap crap gen 2 is a fabulous and perfectly acceptable starting point uh whether you go the commercial route through photonis tubes or nvt tubes or hell i've used the photonis pd pros and that line with your full spec stuff, like John was saying, it is a little over the top in price. You're getting into the, sometimes it just costs a lot more than you think it probably should.

But by no means does that mean it's a terrible tube. Everything that I've ever used with Plutonus, I've seen thousands and thousands of Plutonus tubes. Great, great. And MBT, I've seen hundreds of those too. Fabulous. So it's, you know, the MBT that we offer here is a great starting point. It's also a great ending point, right? You don't have to upgrade, right? That's the other thing. You know, when I think a lot of people fail to stress, I know we at us night vision stress this it's not just about getting a product or a kit item you have to go out and use it you have to

go out and train with it do the mundane tasks read a book mow the lawn hold your clothes you know walk up and down the stairs throw a ball catch something you know the important stuff is getting your kit whether that be nbt photon it's lbd l3 whatever you're going to get get something that you can afford now everybody has their own different different definition of you know what you can and can't afford a person a person that's fine just get something that's the important start and then go out and use it start training start taking classes and from there you can build your kit whether that be an additional whether you want to bridge to pbs 14 whether you want to

upgrade and get a goggle six months from now but get something regardless of what that price point may be and just get out and start training is is my personal perspective yeah and uh before we get into we had a comment in the chat here before we get to that really quick. I guess I look at, I look at night vision kind of like I look at building a rifle. When you're under a budget and you're looking and you're building a rifle, it's like, okay,

this month I can get this part this week. I can get this part, stuff like that. When you're putting money away for say say a pbs 14 um would you say it would be good to just maybe start with like a team windy bump helmet start there hey okay i got the bump helmet okay now i'm going to buy the mount okay buy the mount okay now i'm going to buy you know either the laser first uh because I truly believe that a rifle, uh, needs a IR laser, IR designator or something. Um, or, uh, if you have a pistol, uh, I believe that red dots are,

are needed on a pistol, especially with nods. Um, you know, is that a good, is that a good way to think about it? Like, is that a good way to approach, like when you're under a budget, to think about it like is that a good way to approach like when you're under a budget putting so much away for okay i got this pbs 14 i really want it's three grand okay i'm going to put two hundred dollars or a hundred dollars a month away whatever i can afford uh towards this pbs 14 in the meantime i'm also going to try to put some money away for the helmet the mount um a light uh an ir light a, stuff like that. Is that a good way to approach it too? I would recommend ARP.

So US Night Vision has always sold turnkey kits. And I know that I'm aware that there are some other companies that will sell you a PBS-14 and you're forced to either hand hold it to use it art so when it comes to the helmets i believe i mean i run a helmet i have for 20 something years it is the way you really want and should run an eye vision device but instead of waiting to purchase something i would say i think duncan actually references earlier you start with an eye vision device and then everything else follows and if it's within your budget you know if you're if you can afford to buy the 14 kit at the same time buy your helmet and a mount a mounting whether

that be a dovetail or a bayonet you do that but our kits you can start off by a pbs 14 it comes with everything you would need to run it hands-free so it comes with the skull crusher head mount it comes down with the j-arm that's compatible with the skull crusher head mount and then you're now you have a pbs 14 and if nothing else and crap hits the fan um training is key to anything we do whether it's golfing basketball badminton or something else you got to get out and use it and so part of that is is instinctive shooting if we're all if we all can relatively point well we can shoot a weapon well enough to hit a target at closer distances so um you don't i i'm you don't run a night vision device without an aiming device like an ir aiming laser for sure but if you can't

afford that i wouldn't recommend necessarily waiting to be able to afford your laser before you get your night vision i would i would say you buy one piece at a time until you can afford to build your kit out and yeah you would probably i mean i would almost go to an ir emulator before a helmet only because you can wear your 14 on a skull crusher and still do the job you need to do and so that's my my opinion but don't know no that's good, that's good. And that's the thing is like, because I know I'm on your guys' website right now and just going off of some of your stuff, just that idea that knowing that if I buy a PBS-14, it's going to have this, this, and this.

Because I know a lot of people, like they'll sit there and they're like, okay, well, I buy the PBS-14, but it doesn't say I get a skull crusher. It doesn't say I get a helmet. It doesn't say all this stuff. So they're like, well, how do the PBS-14, but it doesn't say I get a skull crusher. It doesn't say I get a helmet. It doesn't say all this stuff. So they're like, well, how do I mount it? And so that's where they get a lot of questions of, okay, I have this, but now how do I mount it? Well, if they know that this kit comes with the PBS-14, a J-arm,

bayonet-style J-arm, and a skull crusher, okay, cool. That takes a lot of worry out. Okay, I do want a bump helmet, cool. That takes a lot of worry out. Okay. I do want a bump helmet, but now it just went down on my list versus, okay, now I can put some extra money towards an IR, uh, you know, an IR laser, uh, or, uh, or, or a red dot or something to maximize your efficiency on your rifle, your pistol. So, and I think to build upon what both of you just said since you're on the site you know under their turn under our turnkey offerings we have a 3500 offering that's a full

kit you get an mbt pvs 14 a bump helmet rhino mount which you know you utilize the the jr for and an aiming laser right a dire one um you get all that for $3,500. So if we're talking about budgeting, right? You know, what's great about us at US Night Vision is, you know, we're giving you some damn good performance for not a lot of money, right? If you take $3,500 and shop around, you know, there's a lot of places that you're just going to get that single unit. Or you might not even get a single unit. And we have offerings and opportunities for anybody to take advantage of, which is for that same $3,500, we're giving you the whole thing. You get the helmet, you get the bomb, you get the adapters, and you get a laser.

And you can always upgrade to to to elvit or upgrade to a gong um so there's just a ton of opportunities to maximize your spend with us um that's not necessarily breaking the bank or when you're shopping around uh it could be on par or even less in some cases to others um and you just end up getting a lot more so i do want to circle back around to this question that's been lingering and it's, this is probably the perfect spot to put it in. But somebody asked if they purchased, I'm pretty sure the exact same kit you just referenced,

would they be able to upgrade to gen three or dual tubes later without having to upgrade the mounts? I know the answer, but I want to hear from y'all. The answer, the answer is it depends on how they hit the kit so if they're utilized well yes and no um and the reason i say that is because so like our on target kit which you just referenced comes with a bayonet style mount right and goggles do not interface with bayonets however neurotos has a bayonet to dovetail.

So the short answer is yes and no. Yes, you might need an additional adapter, which is that bayonet to dovetail to interface with dovetail and goggles. It runs about $100. Right. For the sake of a visual, for those that are watching on YouTube, that's what a bayonet-style mount looks like. I don't have a dovetail, but it looks nothing like

this. And it interfaces with a mount that is meant for a bayonet-style mount. So if you have these, you're in one ecosystem, and if you have what Duncan's holding up, that's dovetail. It's a different ecosystem. Now, the arms should connect to

a PBS-14 regardless but if you switch out, if you try to switch to something like duels, I'm pretty sure all the duels require dovetails so you'd have to replace this piece which will run you, I don't know. 500. Yeah, I was about to tell you. You're looking at, well, you're looking at

what, you guys have the Rhino mount but the G24s, I mean the dovetail. Anywhere between $500 and $600. Sorry. No, I was going to say anywhere between $500 or $600. So going back to kind of answer this gentleman's question again, just because our kits, it's always important to have a conversation. So call myself, call John, call us, right?

If your long-term strategy is in six to 12 months to get from a 14 to a goggle, we will build you a custom solution where you don't have to get an additional amount later. Yeah, it might up front cost you a tad bit more if you're getting a G24 versus a Rhino and a J-arm, a dovetail j-arm versus a bayonet style right it might cost you a little up front but you're going to have some better mounting options from the window and then down the line in 6 to 12 months you have that g24 which interfaces with every goggle um out there and then every monocular um or if you want to dual bridge your goggles you already have that g24 to put it on a

on a dual bridge whether that be a power or non-power panel bridge or what have you right so you can approach it a few different ways my recommendation is that for anybody who has long term in the 6 to 12 month window ambitions to go from an ocular to a goggle go ahead and just give us a call let us upgrade your mount from the start right so you don't have to get another mount down the road and you end up yeah and that and that's the thing is like that's what i found was so when i when i sold basically phil bought my pbs 14 kit uh he bought i sold him the pbs 14 and the uh the wilcox mount uh and i can't uh and the j arms and stuff like that that i had just because i knew like i needed to get into the dovetail but then i didn't take an account of

buying the dovetail uh so then when i realized that i reached out to john and yeah basically like i ended up buying a rhino mount uh for the dovetail so uh so yeah i mean it ended up working out but yeah that was the biggest um thing that i overlooked was going from a pbs 14 to the duels is going from a jr bayonet style to the the dovetail so and i yeah yeah and and that's that's gonna be i mean that might be one of my next purchases is uh the wilcox g24 um just because how tight it is but that's besides my point but um uh but yeah so let's get i want this question from raggle fraggle here um what's the pros and cons of a weapon mounted uh night vision versus a headgear mounted i i run a i run a cody and um again if it's if it's simplicity you're looking for and get that thermal overlay, I don't think it can be beat.

I love the clip-on thermal. I own both standalone thermal as well. I like to coyote hunt out where I live in Idaho. We're surrounded by dairy farms and where there's cows, there's coyotes. So a dedicated thermal weapons site is something that I would recommend for the hunting side, if you will. But if we're dealing with the idea of self-defense and protection, and again, what thermal doesn't allow one to do is identify somebody's face. It has come a long way with regards to resolution.

I like running that in a black hot mode versus a white hot. You can almost identify somebody, but that is a digital thermal digital versus night vision which is analog so night vision sees exactly what our eyes see just with light amplification when you're hunting that's not so much of a concern because you're out calling coyotes and a dog comes in your field you could definitely tell with thermal technology the difference between let's say a bulldog and a coyote if you're dealing with neighbors who might have Shepherd type dogs you want to make sure like you're not shooting your neighbors German Shepherd versus a coyote because they will look more similar. But I love the idea of the thermal clip-on for your night vision device

because it still allows you to have that analog technology where I can say there's Andrew, there's Phil, there's Duncan in a field versus there's three, you know, six-foot tall male adults, which is what thermal by itself can probably complicate or confuse you by. So I love the clip-on. I think it's a great addition, especially because it's not necessarily $10,000 for a new coating. You can buy the Jerry C5 for under $4,000 or $5,000. And it does everything you need it to do.

It maybe doesn't have all of the advanced features of a new Cody, but you don't really need it, in my opinion. What about night vision, like clip-on night vision to a rifle versus head-mounted? If we're looking at just night vision and you had so much money to spend, would you spend that money on a night vision device that goes on a rifle or would you rather, you know, or would you put it on the helmet?

No, there's a lot of dangers to night vision mounted to a rifle, especially when you're using it around other people because you're going to sweep your weapon on somebody you don't intend to shoot so in the early days of oif the pbs14s were very new and almost everything came with a small arms mount and then the small arms mounts were designed to be placed behind mounted behind like your EOTech hollow side or your endpoint back in the days would be like the cop M's you know before we really got better day optics but uh holographic

sites or comp ends uh even the trizicon like the a-c you know, they were designed to be mounted behind those. And that would give a soldier a capability to convert their point of aim on their day optic into a night vision capability. The problem was, is when you were marching in a desert or whatever, and something would come in within your field of view, and you would sweep your weapon across your buddy standing next to you it was very dangerous and i you know just got phased out of it pretty quickly so dedicated weapon sites or even clip on something would go in front of your existing day optic maybe more traditional tube tube optic like a three and a half to eleven or one to six day optic i think that's great for again getting back to your hunting purposes but not

necessarily for a standard of use all right i think the best summary perhaps is is to build on what you said john is you know clip-on night vision definitely has a place is it commonplace for the everyday person absolutely not you know any is it even the best option for hunting no i think i think thermal is probably the advancement in thermal has probably made thermal the more obvious choice in the hunting application but you still have a really small group of people who want to shoot at night distance right that in itself represents or introduces a whole new challenge when you when you're talking long range shooting and clip on night vision right you have you're talking you know illumination downrange you're talking compatibility on a lot of factors you know you're adding a lot of glass to a lot of glass so i think it's not a mainstay option for a lot of people i think like john said if you stick to

only weapon mounted options you're going to be flagging everything you're looking at it's not ideal it's a safety concern so helmet mounted options really becomes the i don't want to say the only option but it really is the only option for safe, reliable performance and safe, reliable experiences when you're using the products versus just a dedicated rifle mounted night vision. The analogy I was going to give for the audience was we've had this conversation before about carrying an independent tack light versus strictly weapon mounted lights and like i tell everybody the minute you put something on a firearm it has one purpose and one purpose only because if i'm in my

truck and my daughter's in the back seat says dad i dropped something on the ground i can grab this and hand it to her i cannot take my gun with a light on and say, here, honey, shine this at the floorboards. I mean, you could, but... Well, I could. It is America. My wife, who may or may not be listening to this, would slap the hell out of me. Dude, I would get wooden spoon to death by that

Italian woman. Okay. But my point is, so that's the thing I tell everybody about when you start talking about weapon-mounted night vision. If you put on a weapon, it only has one purpose now. But as long as it's on your noggin, like, you know, and we talked about this right before the show started. Like, most of my experience with night vision is actually with administrative stuff. It's truck driving, and it's land nav, and it's scouting, and it's sentry duty.

It's all these things that don't involve punching holes and things and you can't do any of that when you affix your night vision to the rifle so i i will i would not go so far as to say it has no place but like i think it's a much narrower application than most people think it is a It's a very small market segment. Yeah. So we're coming up on 55 minutes here. I want to get into really quick, because I'd like to try to touch on lasers as well,

because you have some really good options on your guys' website. Really quick, though, for people who are looking into and researching night vision and what they should get, a lot of people focus on specs. So we have things like FOM, uh, the figure of merit, the SNR, uh, the EBI stuff like that, the halo, like when someone is looking at when they're researching what they should get or what, what is good, uh, what, what's something that they should look at? Like, what's something that what's a number, what's,

what, what should they pay attention to? Um? I don't necessarily think there is a number. There's no there's not necessarily a cut or dry yay or nay. Right. I think it's unfortunately the case in the commercial market now over the last couple of years where where people are spec intensive, where they may not. where people are spec intensive, where they may not, they go down a rabbit, I'll simplify it, they go down a rabbit hole that is probably outside of their depth. And not all information on the public forums or public access is even accurate. And I think it, you know, chasing FOM, chasing SNR, chasing, you know, whatever you're chasing spec-wise, I think you end up getting too caught up

in doing that, that you fail to realize that there is no perfect tube. There is no perfect night vision system. You know, John... John and Chris have toured L3. I was just in Roanoke touring Elbit, seeing how tubes are made.

If these tube manufacturers could make the perfect tube, they would. Right? Because they could charge whatever they want. They could make a baby. Right, right. But that's why you have certain spec thresholds. Right? And everything from us, everything that we offer you know

publicly is already at a higher threshold than the minimum performance spec of that specification whether that be com spec whether that be mil spec we hold our offerings already to a higher caliber than just the baseline mil spec right because the baseline stuff could be even in gen 3 you can have you know 16 1700 farm um and that be a mil spec dod omni rated two right but we go a little step further um we do the we do the homework we do the the work for you to say hey you know we understand what the specs are we're going to already take it a step further, offer you something above just the minimum, right? That the department of defense, the army, you know, what have you,

we already offer an above caliber standard to start off the base. So I try to tell people don't get in the weeds with specs. Um, cause you know, John's been doing this since the inception of night vision almost um you still see at night you can still kill people you can still protect your family whether gen one gen two gen three your experience may be different and how the the two performs but um get something train with. Don't spend 10 hours reading forms on specs and EBI and everything else because it's irrelevant. On paper, it matters. In lab testing, it matters.

And in very finite environments, of course, it's going to happen. But for the average person to get hung up and look at a 2.5 EBI versus 0.0, right? No, they're both in spec, right? If you have a 0.0 and a two and a half EBI, both of those are mil spec, right? Two and a half is mil spec max, 0.0 is mil spec bottom. I've seen 0.0 EBI. I've seen upwards of 5 EBI on some commercial stuff. It matters the most when you're in environments that you can't see anyways. So you've got to have your LAM. You've got to have your IR. So when a lot of these specs nitty-gritty matter,

they're in situations where regardless of what you see, you need the aid of IR. It's only going to benefit you in those situations. So don't get hung up on specs. We're already offering a higher than minimum standard across the board on what we offer at US Night Vision. So don't get hung up on the specs. You're going to be presented with situations where IR just needs to happen. You need to have it. And that doesn't matter if you – I do the analogy.

It doesn't matter if you spend $ the analogy it doesn't matter if you spend a thousand dollars or a million dollars there are certain situations where if you don't have ir you're screwed right you just i think that i think that's different you were talking about earlier is that ira made a comment earlier like you know you can't use ir the enemy has iron or they can see you use an ir That is just a retarded thing to say because we're not dealing with an enemy, number one. And that's, again, running around with night vision, trying to see if you're admitting it out of your face. It's just not, and IR is definitely not the enemy when it comes to night vision performance. It will only enhance it. when it comes to night vision performance. It will only enhance it. And again, if you'd ever had to use it,

let's say inside a cave or an underground tunnel, you were lightened up with the IR because you couldn't see without it. I mean, there's no light energy in those places. So don't, yeah, I would not fear infrared. It will only enhance your overall night vision optical clarity in any circumstance, even in an open field. We used to run, I used to run IR spotlights, like 2 million candle power spotlights.

Jesus. Oh, but I'll tell you the coolest thing was, is when you would have like pigs, if you're hunting hogs or you're hunting coyotes, when you would have like pigs, if you're hunting hogs or you're hunting coyotes, and they were bedded down at the edge of a like a brush line or a tree line, you couldn't see them with night vision, you just they if they're better down that moving, you wouldn't see them. And what would happen is like your eyes will act almost as a mirror as a reflective for it. And so like when you hit them with IR, you would just see like

two flashlights come on in the distance and then you could realize that that is a an animal that you're trying to hunt so uh just to kind of add on to what duncan says like infrared can only like make it better and it's not going to give away your position because i doubt that you're really, if somebody's hunting you, you know, you have other things to worry about other than activating your infrared illuminator on your 1430. Right. No, that makes sense. Yeah, man, I feel like we could go on for another hour on this. I don't know if you guys know you

signed up for a couple sessions. Yeah. No, hey, honestly, I'm okay with this. You're already twisting my arm to purchase something right now, and I've already got some stuff, so I'm looking at purchasing more. But no,

we're going on an hour if you guys want. We need to do another episode just because of – I'm willing to do that. Yeah, I would love to do another episode because we have – I mean, we need to dive into lasers and IR, like IR illuminators. Andrew, we didn't even cover half of what we needed to cover. Oh, my God.

With everything we talked about on the phone the other day, it was like – and like i said we we have some bullet points where we try to hit but it definitely goes down you know when we start going down on good conversations and stuff like that i hate to break off and let's let's stick to it let's stick to some bullet points because we need to it is what it is so um yeah um yeah i't know. I I'm speechless because this is such an interesting topic to me. Uh, since I've gotten into, I have a good friend of mine, uh, who's an instructor, who's a firearms instructor. And, uh, we, I just did a night vision class this past summer and I'm constantly looking at now I'm like, man, I really want to do another nods class. Uh, and I, like I said, I'm a civilian.'m a civilian. I did not do this stuff in the military, but I think it's needed.

In the civilian world, this stuff is needed. Whether you're prepping for the apocalypse or you're hunting critters at night, hogs, coyotes, whatever it is, thermal, night vision, you're gearing up to protect your family. I don't know how many times like I mean, like I've been in my house now just a year and a half and that I just bought. And when I first got in there, like, yeah, I live by myself. And so like the creaks and the moans of the house, but there's times honestly, like the neighbors would do something, I would hear a car alarm

going off, I would hear, I would hear people outside alarm going off. I would hear, uh, I would hear people outside, like carrying on doing whatever. I honestly, I would turn my lights off. I'd grab my night vision and I would actually go up to my second floor of my house and I would look down and, and I would black my house out and I would look down through, through the window down on the street with my night vision. Um, just because of like, Hey, I don't want to necessarily be seen like a, you know, I'm looking around, I'm trying to figure out what's going on but i want to be kind of a little bit stealthy so like i'd put my night vision on and i'd look around um and that's just like and when you're thinking about worst case scenario whether or not it's a crap hits the fan or whatever it is you got to be prepared and doing this kind of thing. Like, I feel like you're, you're just trying to protect yourself and yeah,

it might sound silly, but when you have somebody that it sounds like gunshots going off, not right, right next to your house. I mean, I'm putting my fricking night vision on and I, like I did, I put my night vision on,

I grabbed my pistol or rifle, whatever, you know, I've done a couple of times and like, I ran and like, I blacked out the house, uh, just because like, I was like i was like okay well what's going on and so information is key so i'm looking out i'm like oh it's people freaking being stupid and they're lighting off fireworks that sounded like freaking gunshots like and so you know nothing to be afraid of but and unfortunately

in my town um we have a prison that's not far away from me. We have, there are, like the meth is pretty serious in my neighborhood, in my city. So I just, I don't want to be like, and that's, this is where I'm with civilians. Like really, I'm really pushing for people to get night vision. It's needed. And so having you guys on to kind of break it down, like I said, we talked a lot. I mean, we talked a lot about different things, but I'd love to have you guys on again. Like I said, we're approaching.

We just went over an hour. So I know you guys are pretty busy, but I'd love to have you guys back on. I know. Absolutely. I know we talked about this during the initial call, but I wanted to publish this. I absolutely, I know we talked about this during the initial call, but I wanted to publish this. So for any listeners of this podcast, if you use code MOF, it'll save you 3% on anything on our website. So you're buying night vision.

If you're buying a laser, use code MOF. It'll save you 3%. So, and I'll publish that. I appreciate that. And our next one too. So for anybody who wants it, you have it. But yeah, just a little side note, throw that in there. Some additional savings to our podcast. I really appreciate that.

And I wanted to, I'm sorry, Andrew, I was just going to add to what Duncan's saying, is that one of the things that Chris and I have been able to do over the years, again, we're very blessed. I'm not taking credit. You know, we've done a tremendous amount of business over 20 something years. I think it's like one hundred and sixty million dollars. Like what it's allowed us to do is it's allowed us to inventory night vision components to build. Like we don't we don't um for lack of a better analogy like

we're not like a fast food restaurant we don't put a bunch of food underneath the burners like our guys our technicians are literally building night vision daily for orders that are coming in you know the week before and like during covid was a huge um ego builder for chris and i because instead like we saw our competitors like quoting out like without exaggeration like 24 26 weeks weeks a half a year and like my comment to my my tribe was like dude the civil war will be over in six months. Like you're going to lock up five, $6,000 and then wait six months. Like how are these companies will be out of business. And like, for us, we were shipping and like, even during COVID with, you know,

supply chain issues, like we were shipping within four or five weeks. I think like today we're shipping like and we always like on the website it'll tell you like 30 daily time and we want you to give it up to that 30 days but we're shipping like in four or five days like i mean you buy something today you're getting a tracking number of your shipment within a week i bugged the crap out of John and Chris. So we make stuff happen a lot quicker. We just like to play it safe. So John's downplaying how good our service actually is.

Not going to lie. You know, that's seven to 14, you know, daily time on everything on our site, seven to 10 days. No, it doesn't actually take that long. Give us that long and then you know let us surprise you and whatnot but no we're like John said we are building every day under promise that is kind of the base model of the company and has been and you know giving Duncan and Chris because I live in Idaho for the obvious reasons

that people like me leave California daily. I left California like 12 years ago, but they run, my company runs very efficiently, very proud to say that I give that credit to the Dominicks, the Duncans, the Chris's, the Steve's, the Joe's, the Palin's, like the team that we have in place. We just run a company the way we want, we think it should be run. And again, that is that under promise over deliver mentality. And so that is what we are very honored with some of the reviews that we have in the market.

There's a lot of mostly very nice things said to us. I don't even think there's any negative things because we haven't made mistakes in long enough time that that pops up. But yeah, we are definitely on top of the game right now. And that's a really good point. Cause I mean, you know, I hate to, I hate to be the one to point out the elephant in the room, but like night vision is by no, by no reasonable person's metric, a cheap thing to get into. And I think it is super important that like you said, you know, when, when you're, when you're taking a customer's money and it's's not an inconsequential amount of money.

The amount of money I've spent on night vision, which is, I think, a pretty entry-level to intermediate setup at this point. I mean, that's more than I spent on the first two cars that I owned. You can't even buy a piece of night vision for $1,000, not from us anyways. We don't have anything that's inexpensive. But $1,000 to anybody, I don't care how much money you have unless you've just lost humility. Like $1,000 is a lot of money to anybody, I got to imagine. And you're spending like three times that amount of money with my company. So like, yeah, we don't take that for granted. Like we understand that we've all been

there. I ate mustard sandwiches for the first three years that I started my company. I couldn't afford meat to put in between two pieces of bread. And thank God that mustard in the year 2000, pieces of bread and thank God that mustard in the year 2000, you know, was still like 59 cents for a bottle of, you know, store branded like mustard, like I listen, toast that bread and put some mustard in between it. Like you're eating steak and lobster, buddy. There was some hard times, but we, we, we get it. And again, we want them, we want your customer base and our customer base

um to know that like we appreciate it you you know you put food on our table and we return that by not sitting on your money for six weeks or six months for that matter yeah for sure no i you know i but i i do see whether it's one of you or both of you, uh, I'd love to have both of you guys back on, but, um, we need to, I think we need to follow up and we'll make a, I think we need to follow up soon on a episode two, uh, and to cover additional, uh, night vision, uh, such as thermal and IR or not thermal, sorry, but IR and, um, lasers and all that stuff, because there's so much to go there. The rabbit hole is huge when it comes to IR up to night vision, especially when you have the IR lights, you have laser aiming, you know,

the laser aiming devices and stuff like that. So, but where. Yeah. In line with that conversation too. So yeah, I think, I think, you know, a second or maybe even a third depending on how how the second one goes, may be wanted. I'm happy to come back. I mean, we talked about this on the

phone, but heck, we'll talk about this more. I'd love to have you guys on as much as possible. You guys are awesome. Just let us know. We'll put it on the phone. Really quick, where can people find you guys?

What's your website? Don't come over to our houses. You might get lit up. So we're on Facebook. We're on Instagram, www.usnightvision.com. We'll answer the phone. It's on Google. It's on the website.

And for about 18 hours a day, seven days a week, you can find me on live chat. So if you're on our website, go to the bottom right corner of our homepage or any page for that matter. Click chat and you're chatting with me. We don't have AI bots. We don't have anything else. I do sleep sometimes, but for about 18 hours a day, seven days a week, you can catch me. So the other day when I was surfing y'all's site before this show, that was you that popped up in the chat saying,

hey, let me know if you have any questions. That's Duncan. Yeah, that is actually Duncan in the flesh. Well, I apologize for calling you an AI chat bot. So I'm not going to lie. I did when I popped on your guys' website before we went live. I was looking around and the thing popped up and it said Duncan. I was like,

oh man, I should just say, hey, what's up? Right in the middle of the show. You didn't interrupt the podcast. Okay, so I wasn't going to do this, but only because we brought it up. Funny enough, there's a listener called Brian who's listening to this podcast right now, who was also on the live

chat. He might have been the guy who asked the mount. He went in the live chat. Thanks for answering my mount question. So, Brian, glad we could answer that for you. And yes, I am behind the live chat all the time. So any questions, give us a call.

John will pick up. You're a lot faster to pick up than I am. But I have him beat on the live chat. So if you want to text, if you want to call, John's your man. Yeah, so we'll start wrapping it out here. But you guys, thank you for coming on. Like they said, usnightvision.com. And then thankfully, Duncan and John, thank you for use code MOF for 3% off. And so, yeah, definitely get on the website.

Check the products out. If you guys have any questions, reach out to me. Reach out to Phil. I have the 1431s. If I ever see you in person, whether it's at a MDFI class or if you're in Grand Rapids area, hit me up. I'll let you look through mine, and I will sell you on Night Vision because it's a game changer. And hopefully, I've been trying to send some business to you guys as well over the last couple years since I bought these. And I've had some people convinced.

It's just a matter of them pulling that trigger on the purchase. But no, thank you guys both for coming on. Greatly appreciate it. Greatly honored. And I really hope that we can get you guys down again. Likewise. Yep. So we'll go ahead and punt this one out the door.

Appreciate John and Duncan for coming on. Appreciate the listeners for the questions. And this will not be the last time we have to have this conversation because this rabbit hole has rabbit holes. Matter of fact, he's heading out the door. Good night, everybody. See ya. Thank you. Thanks for watching!