The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Matter of Facts: Specialty Guns are Dumb

Episode Date: June 29, 2026

http://www.mofpodcast.com/http://www.pbnfamily.comhttps://www.facebook.com/matteroffactspodcast/https://www.facebook.com/groups/mofpodcastgroup/https://rumble.com/user/Mofpodcastwww.youtube.com/user/philrabhttps://www.instagram.com/mofpodcasthttps://twitter.com/themofpodcasthttps://www.cypresssurvivalist.org/Support the showMerch at: https://southerngalscrafts.myshopify.com/Shop at Amazon: http://amzn.to/2ora9riPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/mofpodcastPurchase American Insurgent by Phil Rabalais: https://amzn.to/2FvSLMLShop at MantisX: http://www.mantisx.com/ref?id=173*The views and opinions of guests do not reflect the opinions of Phil Rabalais, Andrew Bobo, Nic Emricson, or the Matter of Facts Podcast*We all fall victim to the ever growing collection of firearms, and the endless justifications to keep adding more and more to the safe. Can one weapon be all things, or does it make sense for a CIVILIAN to specialize. When you don't have a whole fireteam behind you, does it make sense to have a firearm tailored so closely to one specific thing that you sacrifice something else without a half dozen wingmen to fill the void. Are specialty firearms and ammo useful, or just tactical clickbait.Matter of Facts is now live-streaming our podcast on our YouTube channel, Facebook page, and Rumble at 7:30 PM Central on Thursdays . See the links above, join in the live chat, and see the faces behind the voices. Intro and Outro Music by Phil Rabalais All rights reserved, no commercial or non-commercial use without permission of creatorBecome a supporter of this podcast: https://www.spreaker.com/podcast/prepper-broadcasting-network--3295097/support.Support PBN and become a MEMBER of the PBN FAMILY! Free courses, Members only videos, reviews, and podcast! The Prepper's Medical Handbook Build Your Medical Cache – Welcome PBN FamilyJoin the Prepper Broadcasting Network for expert insights on #Survival, #Prepping, #SelfReliance, #OffGridLiving, #Homesteading, #Homestead building, #SelfSufficiency, #Permaculture, #OffGrid solutions, and #SHTF preparedness. With diverse hosts and shows, get practical tips to thrive independently – subscribe now!Newsletter – Welcome PBN FamilyGet Your Free Copy of 50 MUST READ BOOKS TO SURVIVE DOOMSDAYSupport PBN with a Donation 

Welcome back to Matterfax podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping guns and politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at MWFpodcast.com on Facebook or Instagram. You can support us via Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host, Phil Ravaleigh, Andrew, Nick, are on the other side of the mic, and here's your show. Welcome back to Matterfax podcast. I'm Phil. That's Nick. We're doing the admin work right freaking now.

Before Nick can get me diverted off topic, before any of the freaking hoodlubes in the chat, man. to get me off topic. I am muting all of y'all and we're going to do admin work right now. That's fair. That's fair. It was what, an hour and 15 minutes last time? I tried really hard last time. I was so frigging mad.

I got to do it once in a while. If you would like to promote bad decisions by becoming a patron that links in the show description, you can help the patrons who are listening right now, give me enough crap to make me forget to do the admin work and acknowledge their very existence and contributions. to the show. Also, I'll put two moments to call out

one of the patrons in particular. There's one in the chat who took it upon himself to do something very, very cool and special for us in honor

of our 10th anniversary, which is coming up in August, and I'm not going to spoil this prize, even though the patrons already know, but for the rest of you listeners, just there's something coming that's cool. And I owe it to Stewart, proud Texan,

took it upon himself to do something really nice for the show, and I am definitely pre-stice. I actually owe him a phone call, text something to discuss some business around that. Yes. But it's going to have to wait until I'm not at work or working my other job or working my other job or doing something. Yeah, damn adulting always gets in the way of doing the other stuff.

Brough, dumbest thing any of us ever decided to do was grow up and be adults. I don't know what on earth we were thinking about. You know, the folks I know that didn't grow up to be adults, they're not doing so hot. I mean, they're either dead or living home with mom and dad. So I guess by extension, we picked the lesser of two evils. We did. We did pick the lesser of two evils. Yeah.

Anyway, if you don't want to come up, I have Patreon, but you still want to help the show, buy merch for the vibes from the Southern Gows. That link is also in the show description. One of these days, we're going to contribute some time to revise in the shirt ideas a little bit because we got some good ideas. We do. Turns out cigars and bourbon and Tom Fullery is a good melting pot for it. thinking of things. Yes. And if you'd like to prevent war crimes, you can go to disaster coffee.

Use code MOF because we don't do subscriptions anymore. Yeah. But code MOF will get you the exact same discount off. And I am here every week to remind you, mother Fers, to go order your coffee. Listen to me, your spouse will appreciate it. Your co-workers will appreciate it. Your local judge, Madstray police officers will all appreciate it. everyone will like you better if you're caffeinated.

Just trust me on this. Yeah, so far, accurate. And if you don't like coffee, then your life is already sad. So. Yeah. I wonder about those folks. They claim they're okay. I don't think they are.

I'm pretty sure they're all dying inside. Very possible. All right, before we get to topic, this crawled across my news feed today, and I thought it was out freaking standing. Now, in the name of full disclosure, USV Himani is going to have some mixed results from the farms community because there's a lot of people out there that say that if you smoke pot, you shouldn't have guns. You should be a good law-abiding citizen, yada, yada, yada, yada, most of those people are fuds, and I ignore them to the best of my ability. But I tend to believe from an intellectually consistent position of a libertarian, which I happen to be, that I like

whiskey and cigars and coffee and caffeine is highly addictive and alcohol kills people every freaking year it's also undoubtedly heavily addictive for those that have addictive personalities and nicotine is also highly addictive so because i like my drugs i say that if somebody else wants to gonged out you're not at the same time to play with guns but you know gonged out separately from i mean we also don't advocate for heavy consumption of alcohol while hand gun. So I think it's just, you know, a wise course of action. I don't really know that I advocate for anyone being like psychologically or mentally or physically impaired while handling firearms. It just seems like a bad idea. But for the person that's, it's definitely a safety issue.

But for the person that likes to participate in some recreational substance use, I don't think that they're a right, their right to have firearms for their own self-preservation. The defense of their community should be stripped away from them permanently by government. That's help in on finding any reason to take guns from anybody. Well, look, the only constitutionally enforced law is shall not be infringed. Doesn't mention anything about drugs, doesn't mention anything about felons. If we want to be strict constitutionalists, which you tend to favor, and I've also been known to favor from time to time, can't take away guns because somebody got high one time.

Yeah. I mean, we don't fight people from running for president because they smoked a bit of weed. Obama, Bush. Clinton. Definitely Clinton. Clinton again. Possibly Trump?

I have never heard any allegations they smoked pot, but I guess I just kind of naturally assumed that any... Since he's a teetotaler. Like, he doesn't drink, he doesn't smoke. Amphetamines made. Maybe. I mean, the guy's kind of a spas. Yeah.

Although you also have to bear in mind that, like, my definition of drug is a very loose one, and I count most pharmaceuticals. All pharmaceuticals are drugs. Yes, but I guess my point is that just because you get your recreational drugs from a guy on the corner and someone else has money and insurance, so they get their recreational substances from a doctor and bill to your insurance, doesn't mean you're not a pillhead. You're still taking drugs. You're just getting them from a different source. You are. You just have daddy's permission slip. Yes.

And that's really the only difference. And I think a lot of those are kind of ridiculous. Like, if you want to kill yourself through pharmaceuticals, go ahead. But I'm not paying for it. And I'm not paying for your treatment afterwards. That's on you. You made that choice. And I think that's fairly intellectually consistent and morally consistent.

Yeah. But back to USV. Humani, the part of this that gives me a big. chuckle and I'll be the first to admit. I am usually the crumagny bastard on this show that is like, this doesn't matter, we're going to get screwed in the end, and the law's not our side, the courts are rigged against us.

I'm that person most of the time. But it does do me a bit of a chuckle to see the United States government gets slapped nine to zero in a Supreme Court case, because the Supreme Court, not with a unanimous decision, with a decision and multiple what was the word, not consenting decisions, but basically there were like three different decisions made.

All were in favor of the defendant, but not for the same reason. Right, which is unusual. It's also an indication that the government really, really picked the wrong fight on this one. They did, in my opinion, they picked the wrong fight on this one. I think that the real reason why we saw this ruling now when we're going. we did is because, let's face it, it's what, half or more of states now have decriminalized or legalized pot, marijuana, whatever. They're changing the schedule list for it at the federal level.

The writing's kind of on the wall and SCOTUS is going, hey, look, I can be fun too. I don't really think this is them saying, well, constitutionally, no, I think it was them trying to get a PR win. I think maybe, but the other thing I'm noticing is that there was a lot of hand-wringing over the interstate commerce clause, which I've been amazingly critical of in the past. Because there's a lot of commerce that does not happen interstate that is still regulated under it. I can remember multiple instances in which people were put in prison over suppressors that never crossed state lines, but the government insists we can still regulate them for reasons. Now, if I manufacture a cylindrical object, say this cylindrical object, which I did manufacture out of bar stock. Now, it's completely worthless because I didn't get the heat treat right, but it stays in my basement.

It goes nowhere. No one paid me to make it. I didn't pay for anyone to make it. There was no commerce that took place. you can't regulate that cylinder under the interstate commerce clause. It's not legally consistent. Unless a government agency decides it really needs an excuse to shoot your dog and burn your house down. Sure.

I mean, it's not, but still, it's just because they do it doesn't mean it is legally correct or right. I will grant you that. I mean, the government does illegal things all the time. In fact, wildly illegal things constantly. And they do them to enforce the law. What do you think all those staged drug busts are for? All the weapons deals with the Mexican cartels. Iran contra.

You know, Operation Fast and furious. Yeah. We can't go 45 minutes without a news story breaking about the federal government violating its own guidelines and rules. I mean, Christ, it's just ridiculous. I do have to disagree with Stewart here. Fed say the raw material across state.

States. The raw material was not a regulated item at the time across state lines. Correct. Just saying. Yeah. You know, he's he's correct. And that was the Fed's argument. It's a dumb argument. It's irrelevant. The man could have used that raw material to make any number of completely legitimate items. And I would argue he did. Yeah. But like I said, I just wanted to kind of give a quick shout for that. But it always gives me a chuckle when I see the government slap itself on the P.P. I know it's kind of perfunctory, but... Speaking of the government getting a slap down, Doc brings up a very excellent point.

The vampire laws in Hawaii have been slapped down, which has implications for New Jersey and New York as well. What are vampire laws? Essentially, if you have a firearm on you, you cannot enter someone else's property unless they give you positive consent. They have to invite you and your firearm into the place. Yeah, it seems kind of dumb to me, but... It is dumb. What is the point of having concealed weapons permits if you have to ask everyone at the door? Hey, can I come inside?

To Stewart, no, I haven't read Thomas's consent. I literally found out about this just before this show went live, and I was grousing to Nick about how absolutely hellish my week at work has been. So this was kind of a throwed into the end zone. Hail Mary at the last second, not a topic. Yeah. You had a very aggressive week at work. I had a very troublesome week at work.

But I have to say, yet again, we've reached the end of the intern's work week. He still has all 10 fingers. Does he speak Polish and Irish now? Or just the fun words. He has learned some creative swear words in both Polish. and Irish and managed to use them in a sentence correctly by the end of the day. So I think we did excellent education. Yeah, Garrick and I are going to have to put together a little welcome package for everybody when they come down to Louisiana and educate them in cursing in Cajun.

I will have to bone up on that because I've forgotten most of those words. But if you hear me call you a Cuyang, it means you did something silly. Yeah. Stuart, you're retired. You can't have a rough week at work. I think that's his point. That's very fair. Okay.

To topic. Are specialty guns and ammo stupid? Sometimes. Sometimes. And I'm going to have a very, I'm going to have a bit of an opinion about this because the caveat to this is for civilians. So like, let's let's talk about this ever so briefly. Like the idea of like specialty guns. is in a lot of ways, in my opinion,

kind of like rooted deeply in military doctrine. And from that perspective, when you have a whole fire team backing you up, you can afford to like take this guy and specialize them and take that guy and specialize him because he's got all these buddies that have other things that do the things your weapon doesn't. You can have a dedicated shotgun guy

because if you got someone else in the squad that could shoot out of 300 meters, then the limitations of his firearm aren't applicable because the rest of the squad can back him up. It goes back to the idea. of like a fire team that dates back for many, many generations and military doctrine, that if we have like a guy with a bolt action DMR,

he's giving up a lot of rapid fire firepower in exchange for greater range. That makes sense when you have a whole fire team with M1 Grands or with M16s or something backing you up because your lack of individual firepower is overcome by the rest of the fire team. Absolutely. But if you're in a civilian, setting. You might be the only person with with gun at the time. True. If not, you might be the primary

person with gun because you might be, you might be like the one defending the family while everybody else takes shelter. So it's a very different calculation for like, how much can I specialize my weapon to any specific thing knowing that I don't have a fire team backing me up? And for anybody that says you should have a fire team backing you up, you have a lot cooler friends than I do. Most of my friends live too far away to help me out with that kind of thing. Look, and let's be, let's be completely blunt here.

There's also a budgetary concern that comes in that the military just does not happen. But your fire team is not working with one person's income or if both of you work, two people's incomes in that house. Or if great, you have the incomes of an entire nation to fit you out with exactly the minutiae you need to do that job correctly. Point of order, you have the Fed, the Federal Reserve money printer to outfetching to your heart's content. Yeah, same thing.

And, you know, the $5,000 hammers and the $20,000 are toilet seats of the DOD can't pass a budget for. But that's a different discussion. Look, a little bribery goes a long way. That's all I'm saying. Yeah. So, again, specialty guns and ammo for civilians. I think what we have to do first off is, is we have to approach this from, do you have the rest of your bases covered?

Because if you do, if you have your food on lockdown, your alternative power sources set up and ready to go, you got healthy emergency fund, you got your medical care on point, you've taken your classes, you've put in your range time, you've got your ammo, then yeah, I mean,

feel free to buy whatever obsolete or obscure firearms you want and collect them as a hobby. Great. Go forth and do cool shit and break antique guns live on the firing line. Sometimes it's hilarious to watch. Hoofto. Hey, man.

We had a, we had a fun one at one of the range days. We were doing a three gun match. And one of the guys, my former coworker and Foreman showed up with a, I believe it was an 1895 street sweeper, you know, shotgun. and he just detonated the receiver. Oof. Yeah, it just, it just one round too many, subpar steel compared to modern firearms.

And it just, it gave up and blew up in the middle of the match. And he just went, well, shit, that was expensive. Yeah. That's why I make it a point to not, first of all, not own anything that if it broke itself in half, I wouldn't be heartbroken. Annoy. Oh, he wasn't heartbroken.

He was more like mildly, inconvenienced. All right. I'm going to throw this up. This is actually just going to stay up. Yeah. So I threw together a bunch of different types of special to firearms and are actually the GPR is.

Some of these are acronyms are going to take some explanation. But like the GPR is general purpose rifle. So that's like ostensibly like a 16. Rack grade semi-auto magazine fed box magazine. 14 and a half to 16 inch barrel. something off the rack, something very general purpose, the exact opposite of specialty, because that is pretty much like the one thing, the one rifle that if you have to have one rifle, it will do all the things, acceptably.

So then the question comes to the next category over, a special purpose rifle. This is like 18 to 20 inch barrel, a little bit more range, same cartridge as your GPR, which in most people's cases are going to be another 5, 5,56, AR with a little bit more barrel, some more agification. It'll be intermediate for just some kind. Yeah. Could be a 300 blackout. It could be a 6.8. So the question is still useful for a civilian.

Like how much compromises baked into that decision to go with a longer barrel versus a shorter barrel, have more magnification versus something that has better acquisition like a prism or a red dot, the extra weight of a bipod, like how much compromises involved there

versus just a general purpose rifle? I don't think a lot. have you have you run a 20 inch rifle since basic um i mean i deployed with a 20 inch rifle nick twice yeah i mean like in in like say a competitive shooting environment like yes you used it in combat i mean are we counting maneuvering in and out of humvees with yeah that's fine i mean if how much of an inconvenience was the extra four inches realistically so realistically the only time that extra barrel turned into a gigantic pain on the butt, and this is kind of an edge case in most cases,

was when you are on the roll, window down, rifle out the window, and you had to open the door, pull the rifle in, get and dismount the vehicle quickly. Sure. In that one narrow edge case, having four inches of less barrel, or four and a half or five and a half inches less barrel. Yeah, I could see that making the maneuver easier. But that being said, we still, we trained around it.

Like, you know, I talked about this before about the fact that, like, a lot of people talk about how they need this like super short cut down barrel so you can move through hallways. And your answer, mine was always like, just cock the stock up on top of your shoulder. Underneath the shoulder. Like, there's a, there's literally a position where you literally like pull the buttstock underneath your arm and you shorten this whole thing out to where the receiver is basically next to your rib cage. And your point shooting, it's not super accurate. But the point is, is if you're going around a corner, is that if somebody tries to jump on you,

you can get them off of you quickly. And in the case of the vehicle, we learn very quickly that you basically hold the rifle still. You open the door and you fling it open, and the door would open off of the barrel, if that makes sense. Right. It's just learning different techniques to work around the length of the barrel. And I don't think that having the longer barrel hurt us that much.

I mean, I don't think it gave us that much, given the type of environment we were in in Iraq either, but I certainly don't think it was hurting anything. So if you need the extra, what, two, 300 feet per second out of your 55 or 62 grain, I don't think a 20-inch barrel is hurting you much. I'll tell you this. For when I was shooting three-gun competitions,

the difference that I found a 20-inch barrel with a well-performing muzzle break made over a 16-inch barrel with like a bird cage was significant in how easy it was to keep the rifle on target for rapid fire and for point shooting at close range targets so there were some there were some setups that we would do where you had to come around the side of a bunker and get the gun up as fast as possible and engage some close range targets and with that 20 inch barrel you could have it tucked up over your shoulder, you're pointing out, and it's like pointing your index finger right at the target. No problem, no sight picture. Didn't matter. Click, click, click, click, click, click,

around the corner, you can engage five or six targets by the time a lot of the guys with the 16-inch barrel where that barrel is closer to them were able to punch out and acquire some of the targets. Now, maybe that was a technique issue on their end. It very well could have been. But I found, too, when I would shoot my 16 versus my 20, my split times were faster. And this is, yes, strictly competition speaking, but

there's carry over there too. A zone hits in competition at a significantly faster rate. You know, it's not completely inapplicable. I think really the one to me at least, the biggest plus

to a GPR, it's not it's not inherently that the shorter the shorter barrel makes the gun more maneuverable it does make it point a little bit faster that's just basic physics but I think really the biggest difference is the weight cut off the front of the rifle they balance so much better

without all the extra weight hanging out on the front and I didn't find that to be an issue at all and I run a full length heavy rail true but think about combat patrols where you're not I mean that's fine again I'm also a bigger guy Well, I mean, I've served with some really big guys, too, but the point is that pounds are still pounds. And when you have to carry the thing in your hand for several hours while you're on a combat patrol, like a lighter weapon, that's the whole reason the M16 is what it is.

It's because M14's weigh a shitload. They do. I mean, they also punch through bricks like it's no one's business, but that's what cruise serve weapons are for, man. Yeah, that's true. I look, I like large caliber rifles. I don't know why. I just do masochism, mostly. It's probably what it is.

It's probably what it is. So, yeah, I'm going to say that GPR, SPR, I don't think you're giving up much with an SPR. Like, I could totally see that as like the two sides of one coin. If a person said, I value shorter, I value more maneuverable, I value, I like red dots better. Or I value longer barrel. I value like a 1-6 or 1-8 or even like a 3 to 12. even in like if you go with an SPR with a quality red dot say with like a donut of death and a center pip or um anything like that most of the modern red dots have various different uh radical

options you can punch headshots at 300 yards with a 20 inch barrel it's not it's a it's a non issue i mean what was the magnification set on your rifle and we were shooting at 300 six and i well that was when you were shooting it i think i dialed it back i don't know because i think my the parallax was fucking with my vision um doesn't mess with my eyes are shit i've got a stigmatism like like you wouldn't believe but anyway ours are probably just different enough that it works better for you at six than it does for me at one but i had no problem wearing in the 300 yard gong on a rifle i had what six rounds out of i have to admit i wasn't expected a lot of that rifle out in kentucky i got my money's worth out of it that the whole thing that whole thing is accurate enough i

I'm curious to see how if it'll do any better with a change of powder. It could. If you can get the velocities to where the barrel whip is at its happiest point, then it'll do more than you think. That barrel, that's a better barrel than you've made it out to me to be. I think, and this has kind of been my, well, before we get back to topic, because we can't get off topic. My experience with CFE 2,23 for a 556 powder is very similar to most people's

that I've talked to in that it, It's okay. It's not the most accurate. It's not the highest velocity. It's an okay powder. So having done a ladder load with CFE 223, I think the problem I'm running into there is that the powder is just slow enough that even with those heavier 5, five,

six bullets, I'm getting to a point where like, if I could get a little bit more velocity before I hit pressure signs, I could probably get into the next accuracy mode. Probably. Yeah, probably. But I'm already so high up in the ladder by the time. I get to the first accuracy node that I can't get to the point where it scatters and then come back down.

And I think starting with a faster powder, not dramatically faster, but I mean, A-2520 is it's a little bit slower than IMR 4064. It's a fair bit faster than VARGED, BLC2, and C-FB-2-3. So like, I don't know. And, you know, the traditional knowledge was always that faster powders favor lighter bullets. but I think CFE2-2-3 by virtue of its formulation is like it's about as slow as you can tolerate in 556 and that's why it works okay in everything but not fantastic for anything.

Yeah, probably. I mean, you could try, you could try weighting your barrel for better harmonics to alter your accuracy notes in the higher velocity bands. But you're getting into some voodoo there a little bit. And if that weight falls off, now suddenly your gun doesn't shoot the same. Yeah. I would rather just find like the most accurate load I can find.

And in a reasonably attainable powder. There are some powders that are hard to get. Yeah. They're just hard to get. Anyway, so GPR, SPR, I'm going to rule not dumb. No, no, fantastic idea. Both of them fairly usable. If you're in a situation where, say, you are,

dealing with, say, four-legged predators as well as two-legged predators. SPR makes a little more sense, especially if you have a large property where you could be engaging with, like, say, coyotes, wild pigs, whatever, at a reasonable engagement distance beyond like what a just basic red dot would be comfortable with. Yeah. Stuart, no, we haven't gotten to SPR and DMR. You are right on time. That was the next thing we were going to talk about.

So now, understand. I'm not saying this is like the only gun you own, but it is going to be the only gun in your hands when you have to get into a fight with it. Sure. DMR. It depends on your environment. Very much so. So here's kind of where I am on this.

Again, with the idea that you are the only shooter in the situation, well, you're the only shooter on your side in the situation. You don't have a fire team behind you. You don't have a bunch of buddies. Your wife is not playing Annie Oakley standing next to you. She's taking show. It's just you. The DMR to me makes a lot of sense if you're in that weird edge case where range matters more than the size of the firearm, the weight of the firearm, the, you know, the amount of ammunition in your magazine, the ability to put multiple rounds on target, you're in a 1v1 situation because even if you have a DMR and even if you have some good magnification, even if you're at range, if it's five on one, I don't want to be taking fire from five guys.

fire wildly in my direction because the odds start to stack up against me, then I'm going to catch a lucky round. Volume does seem to have an accuracy all of its own after a certain point. Every military in history has proven this. Accuracy by volume is accuracy. Yeah, look, here's a problem that you're going to run into with the DMRs that I think bears discussion. If you are using a DMR in a self-defense situation, you're going to have an awful hard time justifying why you're taking 300 plus yard shots for self-defense. Unless the average jury is going to look at that and go, that's why didn't you just run away?

Right. You had an awful long time to leave. Yeah, I have heard some legal justifications that basically amounted to like I had a rifle, the other do you had a rifle. Like if I turn around a run I'm still within his target engagement distance. Yep. But we do need circle back around too. We have to define these things. A DMR,

a DMR differs from an SPR in the fact that it doesn't necessarily have to be bolt action. It can be a semi-auto, but you are typically not dealing with an intermediate cartridge. You're dealing with a full power, short action, maybe a long action, but at least a short-action cartridge. Designated marksmanship rifle. So if you think of any of the sniper rifles,

that modern militaries use. So something M-14 with a higher magnification optic, 700, anything that would be, your job is to take precision shots at great distances. Yes, great distance being kind of a sliding scale. Greater than the SPRGPR's engagement range. So beyond 20, 300 yards or meters. Yeah. So, again, to me, I think that there's an edge case here.

And I feel like we have to couch all this in like in the self-defense situations. Because if you're talking about like predator control, that's different. Most coyotes aren't shooting back at you. I would hope not. Unless you're on the border, in which case the coyotes probably would. Yes, that's when you need a cruiser weapon and a bunch of friends of yours from a border. Patrol. Yeah, but anyway.

So, like, I'm going to say, like, I wouldn't say DMR dumb, but I am going to say that DMR in the, in the civilian realm for self-defense probably doesn't make near as much sense as a GPR or an SBR. It, in modern, current, I'm going to say current climate. Yes. It's going to be awfully hard in most states to justify that use of force. Yeah. Like, legally to a jury.

you're going to be making your defense attorney really work for his pay. Yeah. And you know what? Does that mean you shouldn't buy one? No. That just means it's probably not going to be the gun you grab. Probably not. Probably.

So moving right along, I had to sneak in here a night vision gun because my GPR is literally stacked up with night vision crap on it. Half of all time is nighttime. half of all time is night time. I'm going to tell you that some of the downsides to like, and I wouldn't even say this is like dedicated night vision gun. I mean, I guess you could argue like if you had a, if you had a gun,

your honor, I'm far-sighted. Guy that comments, I tell you what, when I see him show up in the chat, I never quite know what we're going to get because sometimes he says stuff that is slightly out of pocket. But did he drop something like that that's like,

okay sir you just won the internet for this hour like you you get the prize but like said like I I'm thinking like night vision gun like the way I built one where it's like you got a laser you've got you're kind of stuck with a red dot because magnified sky are

really play nice yeah and now you almost are obligated to like also loop in the whole conversation about how if you want to play with night vision you have to put like four to four to eight thousand dollars on your head which is many many firearms and much ammunition worth of stuff

to run around in the dark and look like a nerd. To be able to play with Night Vision to have a firearm that is outfit for Night Vision, you and iPad talks about how eye-wateringly expensive anything related to Night Vision is. It is.

Like a tiny... It's cool. The tiny little box of laser crap that's on the end of my barrel, which by the way was a budget $800 lamb. Yeah.

You can quite easily triple that. Oh, with just the laser box. I mean, malls were selling for like two and a half, three stacks for a while there. B. Myers is real proud of those. Night vision, very cool. Night vision, very fun. Phenominally expensive. Useful for self-defense.

I will say if the self-defense is happening at night, sure. It is. You know what else is really useful for self-defense at night, Phil? Weapon lights. Weapon lights. You can get a very nice quality weapon light for about two, three hundred bucks. Yeah, you can get them cheaper than that, but a nice one, two, three hundred bucks. Not too bad, less than a case of ammo, depending on you down.

I think I'm into the light that's on that particular rifle about 450, including the switch. So, like, you're talking about, like, a unity switch plus the 450. versus $4,500 just for the night vision on your head. Yeah. And the other thing of it is like, because you got to include the mountain, the helmet too. And go one step further than a $300 weapon light. Put some floodlights on the outside of your house.

Now everybody gets to play in the light. Look, if, if the power is out, great. You're the guy with night vision. Fantastic. That's excellent. It's one of those things that I'm going to call it also an edge case. Yeah. Much like using. a DMR and self-defense. This is going to be an edge case situation. You know,

eh, Stewart makes a good point. Night Vision is really only good for self-defense if you have the time. It depends on how your system's set up, I will say. I will say, and I don't keep mine, like, on standby rigged up Ray to throw on my head and run out the door. I mean, I guess you could make that argument. And quite frankly, after a hurricane when the power's out, I do kind the stage shit up around the house like we are that's the time when it could be viable but i will say this the only place i think night vision and this isn't even a especially firearms thing this is since we're talking about night vision the place where night vision really shines has nothing to do with having a lamb on your gun or being able to shoot at night it's observation oh absolutely

it it is the fact that with the lights off with no one having any earthly idea that i'm standing out in the front yard or then I'm standing in the woods. If there's no moonlight, because if there's, you know this. There's an, like even in, even in the city, if the power's out, if you got a full moon or most of a full moon, you can see well enough to see people walking around without anything ain't your eyes. So it's one of those situations where it's like in the darkest of dark nights, if I have night vision on and you don't, I can see exactly what you're doing at distance and you can't tell that I'm there. And that is, oh, absolutely. And that is useful. I've used that to sneak up on a group of teenagers ever misbehaving and it was hilarious.

Pretty sure one of them urinated down his pants. It was cool. Yeah. But that's not specialty gun. That's night vision as an observation device. I just, I don't think, I don't think it makes sense for the average person to invest the money into like full on a PBS 14 or a set of binos and then have the laser box on your rifle. like build a rifle around the idea of night vision. My GPR has night vision stuff on it because I have night vision.

But I'm going to tell you honestly, I've spent more time with that night vision, stargazing and checking out shooting stars and doing stuff like that. And that's fun and cool. But it's not I have a PBS 14 for home defense. It's in my opinion, it's one of those next level pieces of kit that you only should start thinking about. When everything else is coming. When you have all your bases covered, when you're financially sound, got your food, got your water, got your generator, got your medical, got all your training for the stuff.

Because look, the rifles don't do you any good if you've never learned how to run them properly. And I do mean run them, not operate. Yeah. Because people can operate a firearm just fine on a flat range in a booth. And let me stump on that for just a second. Like, I've, I've been. very critical in the night vision community about two things. Neither which would be a surprise neighbor knows of me.

First of all, please for the love of Christ, don't ever finance night vision. There's a million things you should be spending your money on. And if you cannot like pull four to six thousand dollars out of your behind and go drop it on something or if you can't, if you can't take six grand and light it on fire in the front yard without not being able to pay your bills next month, you have no need for night vision. You need to go save your money and get, get out of debt and get some everything,

taken care of. That's like total dad advice. It's not cool. It's not what the influencers tell you. I'm just telling you, please don't finance Night Vision on a credit card for Christ's sakes. And the other thing I'm going to say is, when I was enlisted, they taught me how to do all kinds of stuff with Night Vision and zero of it was shooting. Actually, I take it back. I had the familiarization course, but that's it. We learned how to drive. We learned how to do recon, how to do recon work. We learned how to frigate checkpoints. We learned how to figure it. We learn all kind of administrative stuff because nine times out of ten, that's what you do with night vision. You're observing in a low-line environment where you cannot be observed observing somebody else. So what I tell everybody is like if you're going to get night vision, the best training you can get is to put the stupid thing on, go outside at night and just learn how to walk around, understand what this does to your field of view, what this does to like your death perception.

I'm going to tell you, bud, thank God I have mine on a bum helmet because I have whacked my, I have whacked the top of my helmet on so many things because your optic is right. He is out here. And it looks like I do. The tree branch is right here.

And it just goes thunk right in the forehead constantly. Yep. I have heard that from every single person I know that owns Night Vision. You're like, man, you wouldn't believe the amount of shit you treat. trip over and bump into, even though you can see. I don't, I don't know how to express to someone who's never done it, how disorienting it can be. And like, I understand there's somebody out there that's going to say, well, it's just like, it's just like having your eyes open, but everything's green.

And it's just freaking not. It is, it is challenging. It's, it. Learning how to move around with thy vision is no more challenging or difficult than any other farm related school you're ever going to learn. You just have to put the time in. I'm just telling you that like, you absolutely do. And a lot of, and most, I would say, most of the people I know that do own NightVision,

they put the time in when they first buy it. But then they don't keep current a lot of the time. Yeah. Because it's the cool new toy. And everybody likes to play with the cool new toy. Yeah. I mean, that's also the reason why every chance I get to like take it out and show it off.

I do because it gives me the, it gives me the kick in the butt to go do something with it again. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. But anyway, so I'm going to say Night Vision. has its use called an edge case. I wouldn't say it's dumb, but I would certainly not say it is like,

it is like something you really, really have to have or you're just, you're not going to get your prepper card punched. To me, it is dumb if you don't have your other bases covered. Yeah. If it in any way puts a financial strain on you, Night Vision is dumb. There are cheaper ways you can get,

not the same, but you can get an effective tool for that. So we are two for two on specialty firearms being dumb. How do you feel about truck guns? This is like this is not the handgun you carry when you happen to be sitting in your truck. This is like the gun that lives in your truck. The dedicated gun that goes in your truck in case you have to like Christian Craig's head, somebody at the mall. And you really desperately need that tiny little, that tiny little not handgun thing.

Phil, when I was growing up, this was, I grew up out in the country. These were called ranch rifles. That was like the rifle rack across the back window of the truck. Yeah, it was in the farm truck that never actually left the farm property. And it was really just there for zapping yotes out in the field, hitting foxes at the hen house, you know, stuff like that. Dealing with predator control. It wasn't until, you know, gosh, it was after I bought my first house that I actually even following the YouTube gun community, started hearing about truck guns. Everybody needs to have a truck gun.

Why you got to have a truck gun? because it's better than a pistol. Look, I don't like having my firearms unsecured, which in a locked vehicle is not really secured in my opinion, when I'm not with them. Most criminals get their firearms by stealing firearms or buying stolen firearms. I don't like the idea of arming the people

that might want to do violence against me. And the only people that really would have a tendency to are either the federal government because they got to bug up their ass or the local criminals. I don't want to get shot with my own gun. That just seems fucking dumb to me. It doesn't seem like a great thing. If you happen to live on a 5,000 acre ranch and you deal with predator control all the time, and that ranch rifle stays in the ranch truck that never leaves the ranch property

and the only three people that ever see that truck are your ranch employees, go forth and slaughter yotes to your heart's content. If you're going to have a truck gun, say downtown Milwaukee or in Rockford, where car break-ins happen all the time, it better be in a vehicle mounted safe. And I do mean bolted to the vehicle. Yeah, like to the frame. To the frame, bolted into some heavy-duty body panels. It better not be one of those steel cable little pistol vault.

kind of deals. I get having one of those in your car for when you're like, well, shit, I got to go to the county and argue about my shed again. So I'm going to put the gun in there so I'm not doing a felony. That was hyper specific. That seems to happen. That seems to happen a lot to certain people.

Just saying. Like I'm not laughing at your misfortune, but you just dropped that very specific example. It happens to be a shocking amount. And that is a government building Or coming in with the gun as a felony

If you just stop arguing with the county This wouldn't be an issue I don't even just give you the goddamn permit To do the exact same thing somebody did in 1979 Six feet to the left This would also not be an issue Oh Jesus Christ I got to circle back around to a couple of these

Because Stewart is running as far Unless you're Phil He gets night vision before getting a shotgun I did not I did not include shotgun on the list, but we will. No, no, no, no. We were talking truck gun. Yep.

That's fair. Save shotgun to tell you what. Here's what we're going to do. On the fly, just for Stewart. There. Yeah, Stuart, I should move to Texas, but it's really fucking hot in Texas. And my wife does not want to live in Texas. It's also really fucking hot.

all of you people that want me to move near you live in places where it's absolute hell 12 months of the year I mean you can go to north Louisiana it's cooler up there and they have tornadoes and snow so it'll be just like home actually that probably would be about right yeah I mean dude north Louisiana is basically south Arkansas and south Arkansas is cool are there a lot of French in north Louisiana not as much so the French the French were mostly like asshole The French were mostly from the middle point of the state south. When you get up into like more north, you're dealing more like English, Irish, German. Ha, your wife sold you out.

It's not cooler there. Gillian, hush, I am trying my best to convince Nick can move Louisiana so we can start a business venture making things that are illegal in Illinois. That's fair. Well, that's like 70% of all things. Yes. So you should come to North Louisiana. I'll move up there in a couple years. and we can make, we can open a little, a little shop and just call it hood rat shit.

We could. And that would probably sell fairly well. At least the T-shirts. Dude, everyone would know exactly what we make. We just named the business hood rat shit. That's fair. Anyway, uh, IDO 38, saying a few weeks ago when we had a tornado go by the house, knocked the power out, I walked the property in my night vision to check the animals in the barn,

way better than using white light. Fair use of night vision. Honestly. If you've got a large property and animals to manage, very fair reason to have it. Yeah. And I mean, in not a self-defense use, but in that situation, night vision or thermal makes a lot more sense because now you're talking about using it for like pest control. True. But not a self-pest control or monitoring where your animals are, especially in very dark conditions or if there's brush, a little bit of brush and stuff in the way, thermals, fantastic.

Yeah. Raggle-fraggle saying about night vision. It turns everything 2D whether you notice or not. Yes, it does. It does take, I'm just telling you, like, night vision, night vision is, it's cool. It's a superpower, but it takes training and it takes retraining the way your brain interprets things through your eyeballs to really be able to use it effectively. And if you, it's like any tool. Yeah.

But the problem with night vision is, is like, for those people that have never tried it, they think it's really simple. And then the first time you crack yourself in the forehead or trip over your feet or trip over air, you realize it's a little more disorienting than you think. And you have to literally retrain your brain how to work under those conditions. It's not it's not difficult, but it just takes work. And it's the boring, nerdy bull crap that everybody's going to say, I want to learn how to shoot a night vision. I'm like, it'd be better if you could walk before you try to shoot. Just a thought. Most definitely.

And Stewart's agreeing with you. truck nor car is a holster. I agree. Yeah. So my thing about a truck gun is I don't subscribe to the idea of gun that stays in truck all the time because I have

a handgun for that. And that handgun plus a spare mag is usually plenty of firepower to get at it. 98% of self-defense situations. The only time I subscribe to truck gun is when I'm driving like multiple hours away. Like if, sure. If we're going

on vacation, we're going like four or five hours away. I don't bring truck gun with me in case I get pulled over by vandals on the side of the interstate and have to fight my way out of harm's way. I'm in a 5,000 pound vehicle. I'm going to run you over and then I'm going to call, I'm going to call Longford. Congratulations. Yes. After I turn you into four greasy spots on the highway because you pulled out a gun and jumped in front of my vehicle, I'll deal with the consequences thereafter. But the truck gun is really like, hey, if we're like four or five hours from home and something weird happens, like another 9-11 where they lock down all the airspace and they just lock, like the whole country goes on lockdown, all of a sudden, I'm five hours away from all the rest of my firearms, all the rest of my ammunition, all the rest of my food, all the rest of my water, and I now need to get home five hours away. It'd be really nice to not have just a nine-mill and one, and two magazines to be able to do that.

It'd be nice to have something like a scorpion and four, five, 30-round magazines and an extra pack of ammo. just in case. Something with a little more reach. Something with a little more rage. A PCC with like a 7 or 8 inch barrel, a very small cut down 300 blackout or 556. Anything or, sorry, anything or than a handgun. Yeah, anything a little bit better.

Those are the moments in time I feel like truck gun really makes sense, but that's not even like truck gun in a self-defense situation. That's like truck gun in a preparedness situation. Yeah, I think that's, that is taking appropriate equipment for the distance you will be away from home. Yeah. So I feel like truck gun for when we're away from when we're a long distance away from home, not stupid. Truck gun because I need to run around to the corner store and I might have to Christian Craig's had some guys exiting, you know, doing stupid stuff in the mall. Maybe spend your bucks on something else.

And our wives are having a conversation that needs to be had in the light. Yeah. Your wife said, I foresee too many problems with both of you living in the same state, to which my replied, but then we would live in the same state, and that's when the problems are really going to start. That could get expensive,

especially if we found a definitely not Tult Ranch. Dude, I mean, look, I keep saying, the fact that you and I are as similar as we are, and we married wives that have a lot of similarities. Wildly similar. And get along with.

very well from what I can tell. Yeah. That says a couple things about lady teachers and their choices and spouses. Apparently they like special needs children that are adults. It works out all right.

Yeah. All right. Bad gun. I'm going to say the exact same thing I did about the truck gun. Except with more caveats because like bad gun, I don't think makes a ton of sense. I think, I feel, I not feel and not think.

Based on statistics and based on rationality, 98% of firefighters, 90% of self-defense situations are solved inside of one magazine with a handgun. And inside of, what was it, seven yards? Yes. 7 to 10 yards. So we're kind of in the same situation as like the night vision where it's like, well, yeah, if it takes you five minutes to get it on your head and strap it on your body, like, what's the point? well, if it takes you if it takes you 10 to 15 seconds

to extract your bag gun and like flip the stock out, lock and loaded, yada, yeah, to it out, power up your red dyed, the fight's over and you're probably, you've probably lost. Yeah. Versus versus rent your shirt up, take your carry gun out and present

and do what you got to do. If you do your holster drills appropriately, there's no reason why you shouldn't get down around or under a one second drawstrow. Yeah, I think you actually made me go back and look at my man as X and we realized that I was like You're right on that on that cusp, weren't you? Breaking through a second I was like 0.97 once I was like point one I was like 1.1 1.2 most of the time But then shockingly enough when I went back and looked at what I was drawing out of a level to

a level to retention holster I was only like 1.5. It's pretty quick for that was I mean, admittedly, God, I got to get back to practicing, but that was with a fair amount of practice over the course of several weeks. But, I mean, when you can, when you can grab a level, when you can grab out of a level two retention holster and get to first shot in about a one, how one and a half seconds, that's screaming in my book. You got to remember, too, that the reaction speed of a person visually seeing something and being able to physically react is about seven tenths of a second before they start to react. So if you are a good portion of your way through your draw stroke, now you don't have to be at full extension press out to break your first shot. If you can get good at point shooting out of a holster, say from halfway through your draw stroke, you can have fired around on target before they've been able to process what you have just done.

And that puts you at a massive advantage. Now, bad guns, same problem for me as truck guns. what is the most common thing that people will snatch off of you in like quick opportunity crimes bag they grab your purse they grab your backpack they grab the bag you set down on the chair next to you at the restaurant while you're not paying attention talking to the waitress i don't like unsecured firearms that are not within my area of control yeah i mean that's totally fair criticism for me it's just more of a, that, that edge case where I need more firepower than handgun. Yeah.

That I'm willing to. I can understand that. But that's, but here's the thing. When I, when I have truck gun, because I'm traveling, it's not as if I have like guns sitting on backseat next to my daughter. It's in a freaking bag in a nondescript bag that I can carry into a hotel without anybody noticing. So like, bag gun to me, what most people will say when they mean bag gun is they mean like, like a messenger bag or a backpack or something like that. Yeah, they mean the AR broken in half in a backpack that they take to business meetings.

Yeah. Right on the subway with. And I just, I cannot see the utility in a thing you need to use in a spur of the moment engagement that takes you like many times longer than it would to draw your handgun from concealment from a holster when it takes you many times longer to pull out, set up, screw together, do recite the incantations to appease the machine. gods and then you can finally go do things with the firearm you had broken down inside your bag. And I mean, where this comes from comes from, I believe is the executive protection area, which is a very cool guys doing the executive protection shit and they think, oh yeah, I got to have that because the professionals have that.

They have that because they're in a high threat environment or high threat situations. Also, first of all. Teams. First of all. Stewart said all my red dots are shakeaway because I mentioned powering up the red dot. Okay, fine, but it's still good. They are until your shake awake fails, which occasionally does happen. Occasionally they will not shake awake.

I've seen them not. The other thing about the executive protection world, have you ever watched the way they train that drill where it's like protect the asset, get the bad gun out, do all this in the air? Have you ever watched that drill done? never with a purposeful eye to analyzing the drill. I will say that. Step one is like you said, you have a team. I've never seen bad gun done in a one in a one B one.

It's always with a team. What you have is you have a portion of that team whose first job is get the asset to the ground, press down on top of them, everyone draws their handguns. their first reaction is get handguns out get the asset down feels him and then one or two on that team who've been pre-selected are the ones who holster and go for the bag gun to have more firepower while the rest of the team protects the asset and protects the two guys getting their bag guns out because they have their handguns out and these other two guys are fiddle fattling around with bagguns so like to me bagguns makes sense in executive. protection. It makes sense in a group. It does not make sense in a 1v1 self-defense situation that is going to be encountered by civilians. It just does not. Unless you're going to really stretch the definition to like, well, what if I'm like, you know, I don't know, on a hike or whatever, but like, I don't know. I think for what most people say bad gun is, if you're taking your

gun for a walk in the woods and you don't have it, say, on a sling. or carried in front of you, you're not going to have time to use it. No. Bear attacks, coyote attacks, wolf attacks, wild pig attacks. I've seen a lot of videos of the above. None of them except for one.

There was one bear attack that was really weird. It was a sick old grizzly, and it kind of wandered around the guy for a few minutes before it committed. The rest of them were animal busts out of bushes and comes at you and you're lucky if you get the first shot off. Yeah. And especially given that most people, when they're on a hike,

they're not looking for some violent animal to rip them apart. They're enjoying nature. Yeah. All the more reason why you're not going to see what's coming until it's on top of you. So I say bag gun dumb. Yeah. Barring, like you said, barring, say transporting your firearm into an out of a hotel,

into and out of like an Airbnb or something like that. I understand that if you are traveling, but that's equipping yourself for a very specific purpose for like your daily use. No, I don't see bad guns as a good option personally. Yeah. And last but on least, shotguns are dumb. That's it for Stewart.

I'm moving on. Hey, look, shotguns are not dumb. Hold on. Shotguns are not dumb. I refuse to allow this. I was being, I was being very sarcastic. I was being, you saw the look, look, The listeners can't see my face, but you saw the look on my face.

I felt the sarcasm in the audio. I was sitting there with my finger on the button to flick that off as soon as I said that. Look, I have to go with Stewart on this one. Phil should have bought a shotgun before he bought Night Vision. As a preparedness personality, as a preparedness minded individual, a shotgun is far more useful in far more situations than Night Vision is. I'll allow that. The biggest reason why I even bought the Night Vision when I did was because

Oh, it was an opportunity buy. It was 100% an opportunity buy. Absolutely. Not faulting you for that. Literally, it was on my radar, but it was not a, oh, I'm going to buy this right now until literally Andrew just casually dropped. I've been thinking about selling this so I can get duels. And my head swivel around and I was like, say more.

Selling you say. Yeah. My wallet tears you. it really was one of those situations where it's like, and you know, Gilling and I talked about literally that afternoon, and I radically reorganized several of like my, my prepper projects,

the irons I had in the fire, like the money I was putting towards that and that and that and all of a sudden, it was like, oh, no, no, no, all this needs to come here and go here, because if I don't, that optic goes somewhere else.

And I don't get a second shot at it. Yeah. But that being said, I will. Therein is a perfect argument. argument for the opportunity cost. You don't have to pass up when you're financially sound. Yeah.

Gillian is taking some of the blame for it because as the story has been told before, um, that same trip was when Nick was when Tommy tossed his PBS 14 to Gillian. And she walked off away from the campfire looking up with the stars said, Phil, we need one of these. And I told her, I'm like, you know, that's like three Gs you're holding your right? She said, I don't care.

See, that's how I feel about antique machine tools. I need to have it. I really don't care about the price that much. Yeah, Jeff Jagg is still taking up Stewart's mantle and grousing me about the chainsaw. But in my defense, I had never needed a chainsaw before I needed it. I had done a lot of work with bowsaws and axes and all sorts of manual implements and gotten along pretty okay by myself until Mother Nation side dropped three. oak trees on my lawn and that was a bit of a different situation.

Hold on a minute. Antique machine tools or night vision? Because both of those we might know interested parties. I've been, Nick, I've been up your button around the corner doing jumping jacks for almost a year now about getting you into night vision and you keep stonewalling me about renovation this and adulting that and need a shop and all those other bull crap. I mean, I admire your your ability to tolerate pure pressure, but it's annoying too. That's one of the, oh, he doesn't make, well, you know, send us a message on the website or shoot, shoot me a DM somewhere. We'll talk. Adio 38.

If you go to MOFpodcast.com, hit the contact form. I will, when it eventually, forward it to me. When it eventually routes to my email, I will, I'll get it in the next hands. Yeah, we'll see what you got. I'm always I'm always interested in shopping. I'm not always interested in buying. I am talking to a man about several antique pieces of machine tooling and his ability to deliver it into my garage with a forklift.

Fair. So yeah, yeah. You know, for all the things I do for the little side hustle I run doing my design work, I really do need. Also, I did just gut a third of my house. Your wife is cracking the whip over your head. Yeah, I know. I got a finish demo in the closet after work tomorrow after I mow the lawn.

That's fair. But anyway, shotgun. So I'm not going to say shotgun dumb. Because the thing about a shotgun that we have talked about, many people have talked about, hold up a second, audio 38, I'm the one who sold you your PBS 14, Phil. Is that Andrew? Can't be. it could be i can't see that image well enough to see if that's

nope me either our long lost co-host i mean if he wants to sell me duels for the same price he sold you the pvs 14 uh if he sells you duels for what he sold me at pbs 14 i'll be pissed i know right it'd be great because he needs he owes me a refund or par he owes me a rebate or something that's not how that works it's inflation and then he freak oh that is is Andrew. Nice. Good to see you, Andrew. You got to get back on the show. He's coming back. He's coming back. I am peer pressuring him as the day goes. But the thing about a shotgun is, what are you laughing at? Oh, just Andrew. Say he'd be sold it to me that cheap. He'd be kicking his own ass. He should be. Those are very nice duels. They are very nice tools. I'm to be honest, though, and I doubt he would

fight me on this. I think the, I think the one, the one two I have in my PBS. I have my PBS, is better than the tubes he has in his duels. That I have heard from people before that you can get monos that are far better individual tubes than you can typically get duels because with the

duels you're trying to pair two of them together as closely as possible so you don't get the weird anomalies and headaches. Yeah. But if I am to my own horn that PBS 14 is really. Yeah.

But, but seriously, though, as far as shotguns go, in my opinion, they are the most versatile firearm that you can buy. If you're going to only buy one firearm, it should probably be a pistol that you can concealed carry or a shotgun. And if you're going to buy two, it better be a pistol and a shotgun. So from a defensive perspective, I agree. And normally I'd be forced to like recount all the downsize of shotgun being like, you know, range limited, capacity limited, yada, yeah, yeah, yeah. comma, however, comma, can kill anything on the continent with the correct load at the correct range. And the thing of it is is that the ability to, if you just load up a full-length tube with double-odd buck and ghost load one onto the lifter, the ability to drop a half a pound of lead in somebody's lap as fast as you can rack it or as fast you can pull the trigger makes up for a lot of capacity limitation.

People carry five and six shot revolvers to this day with the argument that, well, the big magnum revolvers got more firepower than a nine millimeter, so they forgive the fact that it only has five or six shots. So capacity limited, yeah, but not a deal breaker. But the big thing to me is that by changing the load you put in it, you can radically alter its characteristics to shoot close up versus at range. Absolutely. You can do a slug changeover and punch a slug out to 50, 75, 100. yards as long as you're zeroed forward and trained with it not an issue i can confirm that uh federal flight control out of andrews 1301 is a fist size hole at 15 yards it is scarily impressive yeah and i mean my own experience has been about a one inch hole about a one inch spread

per yard that's with like that's with just like milser dirty winchester double odd buck nothing fancy no flight control nothing my my 300 likes the dirty shitty shitty double a lot better than it like the flight control I had a couple really wild flyers at seven yards of flight control

and I think it's I think it's the choke they put in that thing I need to get a choke set and play with that I haven't I haven't tried any flight to throw control through mine yet but that's been about the experience I had is that just your regular old nothing fancy double odd buck i mean at 10 yards it's at 10 yards it's about a about a 10 inch circle which reasonable for home defense use i mean because you're not going to be making shots much more than 10 yards for the most part yeah and literally what i did was before

i went out to the range for the first time of that thing i threw a tape measure from the refrigerator in the kitchen all the way down the hallway to where my bedroom is like literally the longest continuous run in the whole house. And I've already forgotten what that distance was, but I set that distance out at the range. And that is the range. I zeroed the dot on the red dot to a slug. And then I fired a fair amount of double-odd buck at that range. And every one of those pellets lands inside the donut of death.

And that's really, you can't argue much better than that. I can tell you that if I use the refrigerator, as a backstop, I won't even upset my neighbors. No, probably not. Refrigerators are shockingly good due to all the insulation at stopping small caliber rounds. Yeah. So, yeah, I'm going to say shotgun, not dumb. Shotgun.

Shotgun has some things that work against it versus like a GPS or an SPR. There are things you have to train to get the skill set to, like, quickly reload and to handle them. You have to use the sites. Anybody that ever told you, don't. they have to use sites on shotgun as a moron. Yes. But shotgun not dumb. Shotgun, not dumb.

So that's GPR and SPR, not dumb. D.M. Situational. D.M.R. D.M.R situational. Night vision, highly situational. Mm-hmm. Truck guns, dumb.

Dumb. Bag gun, dumb. Dumb. Shotgun, not dumb. So shotgun, never dumb. So that's, that's like, three out of seven not dumb. Mm-hmm. Look, there's always going to be a situation where you can justify the most specialized of equipment. If that situation applies to you, do it.

Fine. But it better not be at the expense of something that applies to you more often. Yeah. Now, one other topic I don't expect to take near as long. Mm-hmm. Specialty ammo. Okay, so right off the bat, armor piercing ammo, fun, kind of dumb. Most of the people that you're going to be defending yourself from are probably not going to be wearing body armor.

Probably, if they are, they'll probably be like soft armor vests that they've gotten off of like TEMU or some shit. You don't tend to see a lot of guys doing B&Es in level four plates probably kind of mid. if somebody's doing a B&E wearing level four plates you've pissed somebody off way worse than you should have they're probably a Fed probably tracers they work in both directions they really only work well in fire teams API APIT if you can get it

that's cool it's probably in a larger caliber also kind of dumb due to the expense per bullet that you're going to be firing and you probably again don't need the don't need the AP portion of it. Yeah. Incendiary, look, incendiary rounds are fun because you can set stuff on fire. They're also not fun because they set all kinds of shit on fire.

Yeah. There's a reason why Tracer rounds are barred at most outdoor and indoor ranges because they tend to set ranges on fire. So do incendiary rounds. That's kind of their job. Yeah. And I'll take a detour through shotgun land very briefly. Um, rubber bullets.

We've talked about multiple times before the edge case where those actually make sense is phenomenally, phenomenally narrow and doesn't only in it. Yeah, only really in the team setting. Yeah. Only really in a team setting and only with the only with the assumption that the person you're about to shoot, you really, really don't want to shoot. And that by itself is a very, very small group of people. Yeah. Most of which they're imaginary. Um, breaching rounds.

I mean, I got a box. They're cool. They're useful. but would play with not a high priority for me. Not a high priority. You know what else breaches a door really well? Double-od buck. A tube full of double-od.

I will say though. Or a tube-ful. But one thing breaching rounds really excel at, the double-od buck and slugs don't do well is they don't bounce back at you. That's the real secret sauce of a breaching round is that it hits a door and it blows

the door lock apart and then it goes and it goes into the pocket dimension without like smacking you back in the face with lead. I agree and that's that's excellent, but so do most very fine bird shots. True. Because at the range you're engaging the door, it's acting as a solid projectile.

And realistically, as a civilian, I am probably never going to be breaching a door with a shotgun. Highly unlikely. Unless it's for fun or in a class. Highly unlikely. I look breaching and clearing rooms is for people on government health care I am not I don't know given how much the government Fs around in the insurance industry well that's fair I might be on government health care no I'm pretty sure my

health care is fully private but they do dick around with a lot bastard all right so bulk match carry and subsonic bulk ammo to me always has training Training first and foremost, but I've also been very upfront about the fact that, like, in a weird enough situation, all ammo is good ammo. Like, I don't care if it's federal gold medal match or if it's Winchester White Box. If it goes bang and I really need somebody to stop doing something that's bothering me, it is, it is in the zone. We have reached the state of flow control. Like, it is going to do what it needs to do. Maybe not as well as it could.

Maybe not with the best accuracy or terminal performance. and it might blow your gun up. Everyone wants in a blue moon. We're talking about Winchester or Wolf, but 99 times I have 100 does what needs to do. Match ammo. If you are shooting for accuracy for training or for competition, absolutely, not dumb.

But we said self-defense. Buying match ammo is expensive. And we did caveat this whole thing with saying self-defense. I think match, I think match ammo for self-defense is kind of dumb. Yeah, it is. In my opinion, it is kind of dumb. The only time I could see a person arguing self-defense is if you're saying that defending your livestock from predators is self-defense because you're defending your income. Okay, fair enough. In that case, you're probably not using match-grade ammunition,

though. You're probably using like hunting rounds or higher-end hunting rounds, something with a soft point to put down the game faster. Potentially. Match-grade ammo really only shines when you're like four, five, six hundred yards out and further. Unless we're talking about like that weird educate, why we can call it edge case, but like if you're talking about like 77 grain match kings and 556, like the terminal effects of those at a variety of distances are very well known. It's a very hard hitting around,

even though it's a match bullet. It does really wild things when it hits, it hits bodies. But I'm going to say that like, I could see that argued. But I'm going to say that for the most part, you're probably better off either spending like a third the money on bulk game edition and having three times as much of it, or you're better off with a premium defensive

round something your law or would carry. Or even like a semi-good quality 556 varmint cartridge. That's meant to impact soft tissue and do tremendous damage. I mean, you're really getting the same functionality out of that or a defensive ammo. Their purposes are very the same. The idea is to dump all the energy in a small area as fast as possible. Yeah. So carry ammo. And I'll also lump into this like your spear gold dots in 556 or like, you know, like a not done. An ammunition that is primarily intended, loaded, bullet designed and everything else with the intention of putting energy on target and not over penetrating.

Not dumb. Someone earlier said hollow points are dumb and I'm going to assume they were joking, but hollow points are the opposite of dumb because the idea is that. that if the bullet manages to pass all the way through the target, then it's, and it's still moving. That means you have energy that you could have imparted upon the target that you're not, because the bullet maintains energy through the target. If the bullet,

like, it's like I always tell people, the perfect situation for a bullet is that it stops inside the target somewhere, preferably after it's penetrated about half the target. Yep. You want a wound cavity. You want a lot of, terminal effect. You want a lot of tissue

displaced, but you want the bullet to stop because if it does, that means all the energy in part was impart upon the target and that tends to make people stop misbehaving. It's the most efficient use of the energy provided, yeah. Yeah. And you can

extrapolate that any direction you want. You can go get like, you know, federal fly control for your shotgun. You can get like, you know, drawn a total freaking blank federal HSTs or federal hydroshocks for your handgun, you can go get spear gold. Maximum expansion, 12-gauge solid monolithic copper projectiles.

Whatever tickles your pickle. Turns into an inch and a half disc. Oof. Oh, yeah. Oof is the correct answer. 99% retention of the projectile weight. And I'll also throw one-ounce slugs into that category. If you have a shotgun and you drop a slug on somebody, like

that is, I'm not going to say it's going to do more than double odd buckwood, but it's going to make an impression. Look, the nice thing about doubleot is if you miss by a little bit, say your point of aim, some of the pellets probably still going to be hitting the point of aim. Well, the slug, if you miss your point of aim a little bit, the slug might miss critical components. Let's put it that way. Yeah, Stewart's saying 77 grain SMK is using the Mark 262.

for a reason. And I am forced to admit that. In that one case, the Sierra Match King and 556 makes a lot of friggin sense, but it's because it behaves almost more like a defensive round than a match round. It just so happens. It's a really, really consistent bullet. Yeah, it just so happens.

It's a very consistent bullet. And the hollow point in it that leads, that lends to its consistency also helps its terminal performance. It's one of those bullets that is, yes, a match bullet. It's also a defensive. Yeah, a carry bullet. So now subs, if you have a suppressor on a weapon you intend to use in a defensive capacity, say your home defense gun is a 300 blackout with a can.

Go forth and carry subs, all of the subs. But if you, like me, live in a state that is terrible and you can't have suppress, suppressors. Subs are dumb. Use full velocity ammunition. I'm going to go one step further. Make your pistol a flashbang too. I'm going to go one step further.

If you, if in the pursuit of having a subsonic round, you cannot load that ammunition at full power. It's dumb. So what I mean is like, for the people who like have loaded like subsonic three away Winchester, you have to download that round a lot. Subsonic 556.

You have to download it a lot. You can't get full power. You can't get full power. I mean, obviously you can't get full velocity because your velocity limited, but you can't even push a heavy enough bullet to make up for the energy loss by the reduction of velocity. 300 blackout tilts things back in the other direction because you could put a really big, super heavy bullet in there and get your terminal effect from that. Absolutely. So like if.

Well, it's like 9mm going to 147 grains. You're automatically subsonic. Or like 230. or hell, at 285, I'll wait to 230 grain, 45 ACP. You can get tons of freaking weight behind the bullet, because that's what 45 ASP does. You can load

it at absolute, like, burning the house down full power, and it's still subsonic. Go forth, do great things. But like, I just have to put that caveat in there that if to have subsonic, you have to give up power, I'm calling it dumb.

Yeah, I would agree. Because at that point, I would rather... If you're going to be, running a can run a cartridge that is meant to be run with a can yeah because my way looking at it is like i would rather deaf in myself and the assailant and flashbang both of us into oblivion look my hearing is already roached yours will be too fine all right yeah every i'm already deaf and my wife and daughter hopefully are holding their ear shut so you're about to ride the lightning with me we are both going to hear re for the next like two weeks on the back of this this adventure

But I just, I can't get behind the idea of like subsonic ammo when it means you have to give up power. I just, I can't, if not for a defensive situation. It just doesn't make sense to coming. No, I, I agree. We could add suppressors to the list real quick. I mean, I don't think suppressors are, do. I put them in the similar category with night vision. I don't know if I want to go that far.

I don't think suppressors are dumb. I think suppressors make... No, I don't think they're. I don't, but I don't even think they're like super situational because even if you're running supersonic ammo, they're still going to reduce the flash a fair bid, which in a low-life situation helps. I was thinking about financially. Okay, so... I was thinking about in the same financial category.

If you have everything else sorted out... Then go get suppressors. I see where you're going. Grab a suppressor if you can. I see where you're going. I mean, yeah, I would not, I would not prioritize... They're an added expense and an added complication. But if you're already sitting on a pile of ammo and you are,

have your training and everything else, then, yeah, by all mean, suppressors, suppressors from home defense, not dumb. I would love to be able to roll a 300 blackout with a suppressor for my home defense rifle. But instead, guess what, you get a 12 gauge ghost loaded. Yeah. I was going to say like, so we're all going to suck. The only thing that makes suppress that, that's dumb around suppressors is just freaking like

the laws around them. Oh, yeah. No, the laws are very dumb around them. And my state makes it even worse. In fact, I'm pretty sure the only way you can legally own suppressors in my state is if you are an FFL of some form. So it sounds to me like Gilwrab is saying that the range day was really fun. I think she's alluding to the fact that we need suppressors. I mean, suppressors for everyone.

I actually just talked to my dad on Father's Day about the fact that like he had mentioned that he was thinking about getting into suppressors. He has talked about it a while. And I kind of impart upon him. I'm like, okay, if you're serious now, we need to get together with a local lawyer and get a family trust going. Because I told my dad, I'm like, you and mom and me and Gillian need to be on that trust at a bare minimum. I don't know if there's a legal implication. I'm sure there's a legal implication about like I couldn't add my daughter to the family trust, although why wouldn't I be able to. 18 and up

Okay Is most of the family trust requirements To the extent of my knowledge in my state Louisiana fuck man Louisiana is interesting in a variety of ways When it comes to our legal tradition I wouldn't have to inquire But I told my dad I'm like

I blame the French The four of us need to be on a well it's also Napoleon a code which is a fair bit different than old then ye old English Blaming the French Well you know we did have some pretty cool Carpetry project so there is that True

Yeah, they get stuff right now. But anyway, I told my dad, I'm like, if you're serious by getting suppressors, we need to sit down with a lawyer, get a family trust going for the four of us, potentially my younger brother, if he wants to be party to it. And I basically told my dad, I'm like, if you're serious, like, let's get the paperwork going because I would like to get some suppressors. Paperwork takes a while. But the problem, the problem my dad and I have is, is like, anytime he leaves town for like a period of time, because him, I'm like, him to do a lot of vacationing their retirement. If he's going to be out of town for like a couple of days, he's usually okay, but he's going to be out of town for like a while.

He's been known to bring a lot of his firearms over to my house and drop him off just in case. Fair enough. And like I told dad, I legally could not take custody of your NFA items unless we're on and trust together. Yeah. Yeah. And that's really quite a downside to the way the NFA is structured. And one of the big reasons why I personally think it needs to go.

It's it is so poorly written and structured. It is designed to punish people for doing everyday tasks. The other thing I point out to my dad and like this was, I think this might have had a bigger impact on them. And for those of you out there who play around the end of A items, you should take this to heart. But I point out to my dad, I'm like, here's the thing. If you buy a presser and it's only registered you,

not only can I not take Kessi of it, but when you pass away, which will happen one day, your own wife cannot legally have cussy to that thing and is, I believe, supposed to notify the ATF and they will come and seize it from her. At the moment of his passing. Yeah. Because technically, if she leaves the hospital,

goes home, she has now assumed possession illegally. Yeah. Now, would they actually charge her? I don't know that. I'm sure it has happened at some point. I don't want to give the sons of bitches the satisfaction of putting a 70-something-year-old lady in jail because these are the same motherfuckers that burned a whole bunch of women and kids to death in a building in Waco, Texas. I don't shot a pregnant woman carrying a baby.

I don't have a lot of faith in their governance or their discretion. Put it that way. No, no, definitely not. I mean, we've talked about this before. Just because it would look really bad and most prosecutors wouldn't bother doesn't mean you're not going to get an idiot every once in a while. So anyway, that was what I told my dad. I'll keep up with him and see if it's something he really wants to pursue at this point or not. But I've pretty much told him like, either you and I need to go get this going or my wife and I are going to go get this going by ourselves without you.

Because, like, I've told, you can add people on to the trust later. But it would make sense. Just go ahead and get everybody who roped in in the same boat. We all sent all of our stuff off at the same time. But I've just told me, I've told Gillian, like, I want to get suppressors. I don't want to get them registered just to me. I want her to be able to have legal custody of them as well. Yeah, it makes things, it makes life simpler that way with the trust.

Yeah. Okay. So, especially firearms, are they dumb or are they not dumb? the survey says three out of seven times specialty stuff is not dumb four out of seven times either marginally helpful or dumb i think at the end of the day like what i'm always going to go back to and hang my hat on is just the idea that like you can specialize a firearm to some degree to meet specific needs without wildly sacrificing other things. Yeah.

But the minute you start to get too far outside of the van diagram, now we're in these weird little edge cases that don't make sense or only make sense in the weirdest situations. And now we are, we're purposing firearms for things that are unlikely to ever happen. Or we're going to be in every situation but the one we build that firearm for when we have that firearm in our hands. Yeah. Yeah, unfortunately, but it's what you get. Yeah.

So anyway, if you agree, you should leave comments on YouTube or on Rumble or on Facebook, or you should check out Instagram, or you should come drop hate mail at our website. I'll make sure I forward it to the circular file where I put all the hate mail. And if you would. Unless it's things for sale. If it's things for sale, it depends. It depends. If you're going to charge him a reasonable amount, I'll forward it to them.

If you're going to give them a sweetheart deal when you screwed me on my PBS 14, then you can eat, you can both eat dirt. I'm deleting that shit. Look, if you would like to upgrade to duels and I would like to upgrade to some night vision, we can make a three-way deal here. I need duels like I need a hole in the head. I already have a precision 308 on hold for reasons. Reasons that might resolve themselves in the next couple of months. But, you know, wonderful. I used the word might.

intentionally. Hey, man, you got to couch it. You can't get your hopes up in this time. Also, I'll drop this little nugget right before we jump out of there. I was talking to Mrs. Matter of Facts the other day, raising values is 100% going to relaunch. Excellent. She actually, I look forward to listening to it. Right now, right now, she's going through, like, looking at some revisions to branding,

Logoing and everything else At the same time, Stuart made his thing for MOF. He also did a similar thing for Raising Values, which when that show relaunches, it'll be relaunched with new branding, new imagery, new intro, outro music. Ragglefraggle is asking when.

I cannot say when. We're working. It's not even a time thing at this point. Like, oh, Gillian said, like, wait eight weeks or something like that. Is she the one texting me right now? She is one texting me. I don't think she realized that that was going to go after during the show, but it doesn't matter. Anyway, but it's not like we're waiting for a specific time or like for a two weeks or four weeks or whatever.

She is waiting for the thing that took her away from podcasting in the first place to start to finally unwind itself. And the unwinding is starting to happen. Like her feet are coming back down out of the stratosphere. she's getting she's getting some things in her personal life our personal life because you know she i wouldn't let her do i wouldn't let her take on the task she's taken on by herself without me being into my involvement to support her yeah absolutely it has taken like a lot of her time and 100% of her energy to deal with this for about the last year so when she comes back to the mic i think in the near future i can see i can see the creative juices start and flow things are coming

together. But it is going to be a, um, it is going to be a different show. Because she's a different Gillian. And I'm sure everybody, I'm sure that, you know, the audience that love that show will love it again. And I'm sure they will, uh, they will lean back on their heels at least once or twice. Like, oh my God, I didn't realize all this was going on because it's been a lot. Mm-hmm.

Yes, it has. All right. Well, Matter of facts is going to go out the. door. Specialty firearms are not dumb. Sometimes they are though. So don't over-specialize for stupid stuff that is unlikely to ever happen. Bear

in mind that most fights are ended in with a handgun inside of one magazine worth of ammo and nine times out of ten, it's much more important to have money in the bank and a fully funded emergency account that it is to have a safe full of guns that all do one thing each.

But if you disagree, you can leave us hate mail and I'll make sure I delete it. Matterpex going out of the door. Goodbye, everybody. Good night.