The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Matter of Facts: This Is My Boomstick!!!

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

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Welcome back to the Matterfags Podcast on the Prepper Broadcasting Network. We talk prepping guns politics every week on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify. Go check out our content at MWFpodcast.com on Facebook or Instagram. You can support us via Patreon or by checking out our affiliate partners. I'm your host Phil Raveley. Andrew and Nick are on the other side of the mic and here's your show. So we're going to try to do the administrative work as quickly as humanly possible. Welcome back to Matter of Facts podcast, by the way, we have a little bit to

cover, uh, at least one of these topics is not really thought out cause it happened to me five hours ago. And I'm still like figuring out how to, how we could have done that better which Nick's gonna help me with But first and foremost patrons, thank you all for supporting the show. Thanks for keeping the wheels on this bus Sometimes it's on fire. Usually it's going downhill at a high rate of speed But thanks for keeping the wheels on the fires are in purpose Yeah, if it isn't we're certainly to allege that it is. Right. Merch. If you're into hilarious t-shirts and six cents of humor, the merch is a good place to look.

Those links are in the show description. And Cypress Survivalist, March 8th, Southeast Louisiana in the vicinity of Mandeville. If you're into preparedness, if you would like to meet yours truly and my wife and my brother-in-law, my sister who was who are members of Cyprus Survivalist. If you want an in-person dose of a lot of the things we talk about in the show, you all should look that up. Those links are also in the show description. That's two minutes dead. That's the fastest we've ever done admin work. I'm getting it's a new record. You are. Congratulations. Well, yeah, I just have to not talk as much, which is the

tricky part for me. That's fine. So, you said you want to talk about news. What's oh yeah and and and the question mark is purposeful because I don't know if it really is news that California is insane but here is yet another example of California's insanity and it does apply to this show. So back in 2019, the LA Department of Water and Power was attempting to replace some nearly hundred-year-old power lines that were going through a state park in the area of the recent Palisades fire. Apparently a, I will call it amateur botanist was traveling through the area

and noticed that they had done a no-no and had stepped on some endangered plants. According to, what is this? New York Post, it is Branton's milkvec plant. It's some kind of flowering shrub. Anyway, they destroyed approximately 200 of these plants and because of that they had to cease their project, do a bunch of remediation, and never finished fixing all of the power lines that were known to be a fire hazard in the area where the Palisades fire, the largest fire

in LA's history has happened. Is this a moment where I remind people that you don't detest bureaucrats enough? No one detests bureaucrats enough and that's saying a lot. I mean that sounds like a challenge given your company Nick. Most of us believe that we should try throwing politicians into volcanoes to sacrifice them for good weather Annually, I mean there's no downside to it. What's the worst that could happen? Nothing and that's still not bad. That's entertaining at least Right, you know, this is this just goes to show what? Is it Mike Shelby that talks about the area studies all the time?

You need to not just do area studies of the people And the places you need to do area studies of the politicians and their history of decisions Uh, this happened in 2019 Here we are six years later. Chickens have come home to roost. 5,000 buildings are destroyed. And I believe a number of people died in this fire as well. So not only has 200 endangered tiny shrubs cost us 5,000 buildings, uncounted, to the extent of my knowledge, uncounted dollars in property damage and several people's lives. But I will frankly knows where it's out.

Yeah. And who knows the gods may be appeased. Right. The gods may be appeased. We don't know. I mean, it still hasn't gotten me completed Star Citizen, but that's an entirely different podcast. So, you know, Phil, you brought up when we were talking before the show that this is kind of another in a long line of things we see out of California, like the the fire trucks you brought up. Yeah, apparently another state donated a number of fire trucks to the, you know, to the effort. And apparently those fire trucks got detoured for mandatory emissions

testing before being allowed to go and fight the fire. And I'm not see, I'm not here to tell a person what they should believe or how to vote. Like I believe in I believe in freedom and self-imposed accountability. Like if you want the fire trucks to detour from coming to save your house to go get smog testing, cool beans, go forward, do great things like that is totally up to you, comma. However, comma, if ever there is a fire threatening my house and a politician stops those trucks for any reason at all

I'm going to be annoyed so I can understand them stopping them if there was a danger to life You'd like a fire Well sure yeah, but I mean you could sometimes you got to stop fire trucks because stupid people won't get their cars out of the way I mean these things happen, but no I'm's when you just push the cars into off the road. And I'm sure the firefighters would love that. I've seen the aftermath of what happens when you park a Beamer in front of a fire hydrant on an active fire setting. They will move it. That, oh no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no life into the door, pry it open and then bill you for the hose that your door cut.

Yeah. Let, let, let me just give you all that little bit of a bit of a Intel. If you're thinking about parking between parking in a fire lane or in front of a fire hydrant, uh, firefighters literally live. They spend their entire careers waiting for the day when they get to use a halogen tool and an axe to open up your car like a tin can to make a point. So I'm not saying don't give it to them. Just know what you're getting into. Like they view you parking in front of that fire hydrant as a challenge. into like they they view you parking in front of that fire hydrant as a challenge.

Congratulations. They are going to tell that story for literal ever after they do it. And your insurance company will not be paying for it. And neither will the fire department. They will be less than amused, let's say. For sure. So workplace emergency. So about five hours ago now, um, no, four and a half hours anyway. So today, this afternoon I had to go to New Orleans for a, uh, for an all hands meeting at work had the entire body there.

It's been quite a while since we've gotten everybody together. And in addition to all that, I bumped into a couple of coworkers that like, I it's been quite a while since we've gotten everybody together and In addition to all that I bumped into a couple of co-workers that like I haven't seen in person in a very long time and we were catching up chewing the fat shooting the shooting the breeze and During this one of those co-workers passed the F out in front of me Co-workers passed the F out in front of me Now I know this co-worker and she has a medical condition that kind of makes this happen every now and then but this is the first time it's ever happened at work and Needless to say I was Concerned when she just like passed smooth out in front of me

But as I was talking to Nick about the situation and what what we did, what how we reacted and like how coworkers of mine that were involved reacted, I thought it merited a discussion because I can't imagine that a workplace incident that requires immediate action is that far out of balance for the average person. Like if you work long enough, sooner or later, you're going to have an incident at work that requires some immediate action. Yeah, be it an accident or just a medical emergency like you had today. I mean, I work in manufacturing. The equipment is dangerous. People can get hurt. People do get hurt. People do. Usually due to their own carelessness. Yeah. So in this case, like, and I haven't been faced with this exact situation too much in the past, like, but in this situation, yeah, you have an unconscious person on the ground. Thankfully she had the presence of mind to like crouch down because she felt it coming and didn't just fall over like a tree, but she fell over and passed out. So like my immediate reaction was to put her onto her side,

kind of like tuck her knees up a little bit, put her in the rescue position. That way if she vomited, she wouldn't aspirate on it. Try to keep her airway clear, try to keep her down and stable and still, because when a person passes out, they can start flailing around a little bit. When they to come to they could seize all kinds of things are happening So I wouldn't say that that was like a conscious thought like oh I need to put her in the rescue position

Honestly, it was just like baked in I don't know probably a result of Military training but like I know when you have a person's unconscious, that's what you're supposed to do with them. Absolutely. So I put her into that position, you know, like have my hand on her head, have my other hand on her shoulders. I had control over her. Um, at this moment, a friend of mine who was with me immediately called to somebody else and said, you call nine one one or call call EMS, which is one thing that has been impressed upon me and

for for the sake of discussion my friend who was there the third friend in this discussion is also a military veteran he's an air force vet so I know that there's those overlaps in our medical training like we both come from the military perspective and in the midst of all this, like he did what is step one is always deal with the patient. Step two is always identify a person who is supposed to call EMS. Because it's been in after action reports, we've seen situations where like, you're you got six people standing around and you assume I'm going to deal with patient one, he was going to call EMS. And then all six of them stare at each other because they're all Waiting for one of them to call EMS by standard effect. Yeah, so it's pretty well documented So it's always been impressed upon me and what my friend did was say you Pointed at somebody made eye contact got them to acknowledge and said you call EMS so that it is on that one person is that one

Person's responsibility if that doesn't happen, it's your fault. And to simply short circuit bystander effect, she immediately got on the phone and started calling for help. Perfect. What I realized afterwards, and you and I were talking about this, but like my workplace is in this weird

transitionary period where we've been working remote, kind of a leftover from COVID. We are working towards a return to office return to fiscal office posture. And we are also in the middle of moving facilities. So the person who got tapped to make the call, I don't recognize, I didn't recognize her. I think she's fairly new. She didn't immediately know who to call. So she made it she made a judgment call and call 911, which is never the wrong answer. It's it's not a bad call. But like you and I were talking about this facility has on facility, medical options and on

facility security, like we have our own assets there on the on site. And if those assets have been called They could have gotten to us a little quicker but eventually St. Bernard pair Harris Fire Department and a katie d'ambulance right behind them all made the trip in and To their to their credit the front gate when they see EMS rolling up. They don't ask questions They just say where are you trying to go? Let me point you the right direction like will we will figure out why you're here? Say where are you trying to go? Let me point you the right direction Like will we will figure out why you're here once you get there

The correct answer because otherwise the firemen are also going to have fun with your day. Yeah, so like I said, I mean Within a fairly short amount of time. We had a EMS on site I assumes that is my whole thing is as soon as the professionals I am taking a step back I'm letting y'all do what y'all do. I stayed close which was a necessary thing because by this time My friend who had passed out was still a little off kilter still a little she wasn't really incoherent or confused she was very weak and she didn't have an accurate understanding of what had happened. Because, like she thought she was only like out

for a second, I knew she was out for 30 seconds, things like that. Yeah, it makes sense. So like the one thing I could tell y'all is that in an emergency situation, like, you know, to me, the priorities are deal with the immediate patients, render aid, and turn on your memory recorder because everything that happened is going to be pertinent at some point. EMS is going to need to know everything you know about the incident before they showed up.

All of that helps them triage the patient and really simple things like, well, she was passed out for five seconds or she was passed out for 30 seconds or did she hit her head or was she, you know, was she already supine when she, when she went with lights out, all those things get really important to EMS. They want to know all that. Like they were there when it happened. So if you can be a good witness that helps EMS treat the patient. Absolutely does.

And that, that also applies like, even if it's not a medical incident, if it's any kind of emergency incident, being a good witness helps a lot just to just to turn your brain on and like, notice what's going on and be able to retell it later. The other thing that really wasn't an issue for me or for my friend, because again, both was military veterans, was neither one of us got really upset. Neither one of us got, you know, was freaked out. Neither one of us was losing our crap. We both just kind of like very calmly took control of the situation, took control of her, took control of everybody around us. And once the professional showed up, we just said, Hey, this is the situation.

This is what we know. Where do you need us? It's a benefit of good training. Yeah. You guys had reps, you know what to do when someone's a benefit of good training. Yeah. You guys have had reps. You know what to do when someone's unconscious. You've trained for it multiple times. I'm sure you've taken a first aid class since you got out of the military.

Actually, I haven't. Really? Yeah. What's an update? I know. I know. It's on my list of things to do. But the never ending list, dude, I get it, man. I haven't had a professional firearms or medical class since I was enlisted. So it's been 20 years, although I was telling you about it. Like to me, the part of this whole situation to me, that is kind of interesting to me, and it probably is going to be a no dud.

And most people is like, I slipped back into that mindset of deal with the emergency put everything else on hold. Without thought like I didn't it didn't even occur to me to be worried about my oh my friend passed out you know what is she's okay that didn't even occur to me until I got home. It wasn't until she was dealt with. She was, she was home with her husband. Every decision I made from the moment she said, I don't feel good until I came home after the whole thing was dealt with. It was pure autopilot. It was, it wasn't conscious thought. It was this needs to happen.

Go step a step B step C step D. And then somewhere down the line, I got to, step B, step C, step D. And then somewhere down the line, I got to, oh Jesus, I really would love a bourbon and Coke and to sit here for five minutes in the quiet. Yep. But that's exactly what I was referencing earlier. That is what happens when you get good, consistent training and you can process that training fully.

I mean, if you don't have the training, it's just like not understanding how a tool works. You don't, your brain doesn't see the object as a tool until it knows how that thing works and knows what it does. So, you know, no, I mean, it makes complete sense. No, it makes complete sense. I know, no, I mean good argument for getting trans No, it makes complete sense. I mean quite quite frankly this will the the end result of this Situation is while it is fresh on people's mind. I am probably going to See if I can't lean on

senior leadership about if I can't lean on senior leadership about because I know I know at some point several years back, we had a following a an active shooter training. We got some advice from the instructor that did not get utilized, that he consider hosting a stop the bleed class at our facility and admit five to 10% of the staff. Sure. Like that was the instructor's position was, you don't need a single person with a medical bag. You need, in a 600 man facility, you need 50 or 60 people with a tourniquet under their desk and the knowledge of how to use it.

And that's gonna be much more useful to you. So now I'm wondering to myself, like, is this the moment in time to, through my boss, obviously, because I ain't calling the front office willy nilly. But is this moment in time to like reach out through my boss and be like, look, this is y'all know what happened, you got the reports, but there's an opportunity here to learn from this and make make this staff better able to deal with the situation in the future. We're lucky that this happened with a mit with an army and an Air Force vet on hand who both have met who both have some level of medical training, both have some level of deal with emergency situations. We are lucky that it was the two of us who were standing there who were able to control the situation and get resources inbound. But if it hadn't have been, if it had been two 22-year-old kids fresh out of college who didn't

have our life experience, would we have gotten the same outcome? And you're lucky it was the medical condition that it was and that it was a known and non-life threatening condition. Yeah, I mean, you guys got as lucky as you can possibly get when it comes to a medical emergency like that. I mean, I'm sure you have some people in your workforce that are, you know, they're pushing 50, 60, getting close to retirement like that. Heart attack's not out of line. I mean, in the 12 years I've worked at this place, I couldn't even tell you. It's been

dozens. We've had people wheeled out of there in ambulances. Most of the time they come back, but we've had people wheeled out of there in ambulances. of the time they come back. But we've had people wield that to their own ambulances. I mean, there, hell, there was one week, we had three in a week. I was really, I was starting to wonder if there was LSD in the water supply or something. Cause like we had three people a week get carted out by ambulances.

That's not good. No, but the problem is when that much of your workforce is like approaching 65, frankly, you get into that situation where you're in a target rich environment. Put it that way. Unfortunately, that is how that works. I mean, the older you get, you're just kind of waiting for something to go wrong, either biologically or accident. The statistics are kind of against you at that point.

So yeah, that, that might be my own personal after action report to, uh, talk to my boss about and try to take to the front office and, you know, just the way my brain works is always, first of all, it always goes to how bad could this have been, which I'm thankful that this wasn't. But my other thought is, is like, okay, what were the lessons to be learned from this? And the lessons to be learned to me are the person who initiated trying to get help, they got help, they got help as quickly as they could. We might have an option to get help a little faster had they been better communicated.

And it hadn't even been better. And I'm guilty of that too, because I feel like now I should have had that number like saved in my phone where I could have told her, call this number. Probably hindsight's 2020. But when you consider the fact that I work remote 95% of the time, most of the time when I'm, if I have a medical emergency, it's here in this office and I call nine one, I tell them, I live at this, a medical emergency, it's here in this office and I call 911. I tell them I live at this, this, that, and the other in Mandeville.

It's, I mean, I can make excuses for it, but what it really boils down to is there are lessons to be learned here so that we're better able to take care of the staff and especially going back to fiscal office presence. I think this might be the opportune time to like point out to senior leadership like, hey, these are things we need to cover with the whole staff as we go back into this posture. A, because that that information is all changing because our facility is changing, but also B, because we've proven the staff doesn't know. Yeah, we've proven that

now. At least the new staff doesn't know. which is probably a quarter of the agency. Okay, then that's that is an unacceptable number. To me, that's an unacceptable number. Yeah, if 25% of the staff where I work did not know where the fire extinguishers were, which I think is equivalent, that would be a serious problem. To be fair, I don't know where the fire extinguishers are because I've been in the new building exactly one fair, I don't know where the fire extinguishers are, because I've been in the new building exactly one time, and I don't know where they are yet.

So that's different, though. You haven't been in the building. But it's the same end result. I guess what I'm saying there for multiple years. But I guess what I'm saying is it's the same end result. We all the entire staff has to have this briefing and has to have this knowledge, because we're going into a facility where

We're all gonna be sitting there singing hand singing kumbaya and holding hands We're gonna have to know how to take care of a chair or something bad happens. Absolutely So anyway 20 minutes into the show we finally get to what we set out to talk about that wasn't a oh By the way, something happened today at work and I just felt the need to decompress about it so I cannot do a This is my boomstick impression. I'm gonna try like I might have attempted yesterday But after the afternoon I've had this is the best you get as a banner in a this is my boomstick

And if you don't know where that quotes from you lived an awful sheltered childhood and I'm disappointed in your parents. You should watch Army of Darkness with your spouse or yourself if you don't have a spouse. Watch the entire Evil Dead series. They are just- True, true. Geek. Terrible horror movies. There is a line where terrible turns into amazing though.

Which is about what- It is an is about where it is in art piece. It is an art piece. I'm gonna think of it. I bet my wife has never seen Evil Dead. I have to rectify this immediately. That's gonna well, OK, so let me throw her daughter into Evil Dead. If I remember correctly, it's fairly child friendly.

Let me throw my wife under the bus before we can get into this topic. My wife and I were talking about like, awesome movies and everything she was naming was like goofy chick flicks and crap that I'm never gonna watch. And I was like, Yeah, well, you know, you you really can't call yourself a human being unless you've seen Blade Runner. And she got this blank look on her face. And I was like, no, no. Must. You haven't?

Must watch now. What's Blade Runner? I'm like. And we've had that decision point several times in our relationship, even before we got married, where there was like some peak cyberpunk, sci-fi, nerdy, bull crap, like peak movie, and she had never even heard of it road warrior

Blade Runner like my entire childhood just skated right past my wife race tell me she's seen death race which one two times okay okay not the new one the new ones dumb okay but there's a segment the audience out there that does not realize that David David Carradine starred in Death Ray in a death race movie. And it is infinitely better than the one that Jason Statham star. So much better. Oh, look. The hand grenade.

The hand grenade alone, just for that pun. Oh, Gillian said I knew about Blade Runner. But you haven't seen it, have you? It needs to watch it. It's required watching. I mean. Anyway, and Ragged Fraggle said I saw the new one, not the old one. Listen, you go back, watch, watch, watch him.

Watch this race. 2000 is probably not your kids, though. And no, you should not back watch watch watch him. Yes race 2000 is probably not was your kids though And no you you should not watch it with your kids. There's lots of There's lots of like at least semi nudity involved if not just straight-up softcore pornography I don't remember like full frontal, but definitely some boobies flopping around. Yeah I mean it was filmed in the 70s guys like, you know Cultural norms at the time and everything cocaine is all there's a lot of drugs going around But where but I have to admit the cars steal the show because like you did like they're phenomenal The cars are the most caricatured nonsense on earth and the characters

Driving the cars are the most caricatured nonsense on earth. The movie is Amazing in the fact that it does not even attempt to take itself. Seriously. It is not a ridiculous Not even close. Oh It's fantastic anyway Stewart said of course I drop in when you're talking about porn. What's the difference really some cars are a form of pornography I will allow it Hey, I'm just saying

Okay, but anyway, this is my boomstick so I I've talked a few times about the fact that I got bullied into buying a shotgun and I'm going to hold to the fact that I got bullied into it. None of you can talk me out of it. I was bullied. I did it as self-preservation instinct. But that being said, I am, I've done what I normally do with shotguns and I like committed myself to learning everything humanly possible about them

Reading tons of articles reading tons of information Asking other nerd friends of mine looking at you Nick Questions that I don't know the answers to because I just wanted to learn everything about a subject Hallelujah for unchecked unmedicated ADHD It's a thing It's perfect. It's exactly what we need in this situation. What? The ability to obsessively and compulsively learn everything about a subject until you're exhausted with it? Yeah, yeah, exactly. You spend, spend exactly, you know, three weeks to 90 days,

depending on how bad it hits, learn every single possible thing you can and go I'm missing many things and then pull out the adult credit card. So my wife is questioning whether or not I was bullied and Stuart is saying shamed not bullied. Okay I was shamed not bullied. Same kind of bullying. Shaming is a kind of bullying. Thank you Nick. It's the best kind. I liked you. It's the best kind of bullying. It's a kind of bullying. Shaming is a kind of bullying. Thank you, Nick. It's the best kind. I liked you. It's the best kind of bullying. It's productive. Well, it worked.

I did produce a shotgun. I did end up buying a Brenna A300, but that that that leads us down the rabbit hole that we are about to commit ourselves to. So I figure we start off with like the great debate. First of all, of pumps versus semis and I'm getting over under versus side by side versus single shot. Oh, I guess let's just expand the mother f*****g topic.

Like, are we talking about, are we talking about home defense use? Or are we talking about general preparedness use where you need to use this thing for a bird gun or whatever else? Like, define the rules of engagement. At this point, we can classify into two things. Are you having a shotgun for entertaining yourself? Or are you having a shotgun for serious use? Yes.

Personally, side-by-sides, over and unders, and single shots are no longer really serious use unless you're using like a single shot rifled shotgun for hunting in a jurisdiction that only allows for something like that. Pumps and semi-auto shotguns have come to the point where they outclass most of the rest of that category. If you want to dress up as Doc Holiday in a full leather duster with a side-by-side more power to you, I'll help you find the hat. Oh, Chappas. Yeah. Didn't that get, wasn't that in Stargate Atlantis too? I don't. Didn't have a hand in that. We, for the audio listeners, we have to read the comment. Draggle Fraggle said, don't forget Chiapas three barrel atrocity.

I'm kind of OK with it to be perfectly honest. I'll allow it. It's cool. I'm wondering why they didn't make a four barrel one. Too heavy. The three barrel was already insanely heavy. Right. Yeah.

Don't be a girl. Grow muscles. One of our... Come on, I could probably outlift you. Jeff brings up a good point. point at that point just buy a drilling Exactly, if you're gonna buy if you're in a restricted area and you can only buy one weapon a drilling is not a bad way to go Okay for there's a Rifled barrel I was about to say there's a portion of the audience that doesn't know what a drilling is. So we have to You don't. Look up forgotten weapons. There's plenty of drillings on that.

Just look up forgotten weapons and just play it. Like that whole channel is peak entertainment. True. Look, as far as the discussion pumps versus semis, most semi-automaticsics most modern semi automatic shotguns now have gotten to the point where they perform as reliably as a pump action shotgun and they remove part of the human error factor well i don't know how much you've shot a pump shotgun i pretty much exclusively shot pump shotguns until i got my a300 what about you i mean i i'd never touched to send me a lot before I got my a 300 but I've also never been much of a shotgun person. So my shotgun experience has been pretty much constricted to like a buddy of mine saying hey let's go shoot some clays or let's go goof off and shoot this to banning car or whatever you know like yeah so I've shot pump up pump actions before

I've never owned one I've never seriously trained seriously trained with so I've shot pump up pump actions before I've never I've never serious training seriously trained with one. I've always been more of a rifle guy personally The one downfall I found with pump action shotguns myself is when I'm under a time constraint I have a tendency to short stroke pump shotgun That's not your buddy problem. It is it is it's a training issue. It's a training issue. And I didn't like shooting shotguns because I was never taught to shoot them correctly. You missed the innuendo, but go ahead. Oh, I know. I let that one slide.

The, anyway, what you can create a pretty catastrophic malfunction if you short stroke your shotgun. If you do not complete the full rearward action, full forward action, you can jam up a pump shotgun pretty good. That's what usually tripped me up in three gun matches, the little bit that I did shoot at them.

You don't have that user error problem with semi-automatic shotguns. And I think if you've never owned a shotgun, if you've never shot a shotgun, I don't think there's a good reason to not buy a semi auto other than the auto other than cost. Sure. Yeah, sure. If all things being equal, if budget allows for it, I would say a semi auto. But the semi auto is like your A300, what that run you?

Hmm. Text, have a license, 11 her books. Yeah, I think I was like 850 because I got a pretty good deal on mine. Yeah, I got I got a trying to put a friends kids through college deal. I wasn't complaining. Sure. Yeah, you weren't looking for sales, but like I don't know what a Remington 870 Express even costs right now. Let's look at sticker price.

No, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm just waiting for you to see the stickers like 600 bucks, 500 bucks porn, cars and short stroke. And correct. You you missed Warhammer. And Bourbon. Yeah, that is. That's all right. I've got a wide range of topics.

But, you know. So 500 bucks for a reliable pump shotgun. No, I'll fight you on this maverick 88. Okay. 200 bucks. 250 bucks if you got to pay full freight for it. If you are on the ultra super slim budget, which fair enough, there are people out there that probably are 200 bucks.

Maverick 88. I will never disparage that shotgun. That shotgun is extremely reliable. I forget it exists because I compulsively buy not super cheap guns. So the thing about the maverick 88 to me is like, if you were, if you are between buying one of the $ are Turkish Turk Nelly specials Yeah, and a maverick 88 I would say get the freaking maverick 88 every single time Because you can get parts you can get service you can get a warranty those Turkish guns

Some of them are great. Some of them are great Someone really terrible Joe to answer your question the maverick 88 Mossberg. Yep. Same guys that make the 590 They just that's just their cheap version of it Yeah, it's the fit and finish is worse. Oh, no, I've seen it is an appliance It is not pretty it is not nice. It is not cute It does not have like all the cool bells and whistles on it You will not impress your friends with it But it will absolutely freaking go bang every time you pull the trigger point-blank a period and you can damn sure bet it'll kill somebody

Just as well as as a 1301 110 percent so that's why I say if you're back and forth between the cheapest freaking pump ag the cheapest freaking You know semi-auto you can find which is gonna be in that $200 range or a Mossberg Maverick 88 The Mossberg will run the Turk Nelly. Questionable. I don't know. Joe, is it, is it, uh, is it like a old school 500? I do not know.

I know it's a Mossberg action, but I'm not sure which one it is. It is a Mossberg action for, and I haven't stripped the two of them side by side So I couldn't tell you a hundred percent But from my understanding them the maverick 88 was a simplification and a cost-saving exercise based on the 590 so It is every corner we could cut in this shotgun without making the reliability go down So like if that's what you're looking for, but bargain basement, it'll run, but it'll run. I think the Maverick ADA makes a good point. If Stewart Stewart says it is the old 500 action, just slightly simple.

Okay. Like I said, I didn't want to make that assertion just because until I can rip the two of them apart side by side, I don't want to make that assertion. And the Mossberg 500 was phenomenal. Yeah. Now to answer raggle-fragle, why not the 1301? So I'm not going to debate that the 1301 might be a superior firearm to an A300.

I'm not going to debate that. I think there is a debate to be had, but I think that what you're getting in an A300. I'm not going to debate that. I think there is a debate to be had, but I think that what you're getting in an A300 is 90% of the capabilities of a 1301 at about 60% of the cost. So where I always come from, not just farms, but with everything, is I overlay like this cost versus value or performance graph. And wherever the two intersect is usually where I buy, I'm not going to spend a ton more money for a marginal increase in performance. I'm not going to sacrifice a lot of performance for to save a couple of bucks. I

look for the sweet spot in the middle where everything seems to make sense. And to me, the A 300 is that the limited experience I've had with it at this point, having only owned it for a couple of months, it has digested everything. I have stuffed into it without complaint. It has never given me a bit of trouble. It is honestly softer shooting than I thought it was going to be coming from 12 from pump action, 12 cages. It's not it's not that difficult to

strip and to clean and reassemble. I really don't have a lot of issues with the A300. RaggleFragle said I see a lot of 1301 is aftermarket support but here's my thing. Most of the stuff you can put on an A on a 1301 also works on an A 300 except for the stock except for the stock. Now, here's the thing. That's the big difference. And this is why I chose the A 300 instead of 1301. I not manage all not even disappointed.

Personal preference. I detest pistol grip shotguns. Same to test them. Do not like them. Do not like how they feel to shoot. Like I like nothing about handling them whatsoever. And I have handled a fair bit of them. I don't like anything about them. It feels weird to me. Couldn't tell you why. Maybe a training score. Maybe I'm just a fud in the making. I don't know and I don't care I like nothing about pistol grip shotguns whatsoever. If you do cool beans, I'm not mad at you, but I will never own one and When you remove I'd really like to put a pistol grip, you know stock on this shotgun from the equation

The a three hundred and thirteen one really stack up pretty closely against each other So if you're the person that really wants to have like the baby and Vanellium for you need the 1301 your options for putting a pistol grip stock on a 300 are very Very constricted and I don't think that great. I have not found an aftermarket stock for the A300 I found one. Okay. I could hunt it down again and show you and send you the link if you're really curious.

I found one. I'm not looking for a pistol grip one. I'd like a stock that's a little more, that feels a little more durable than the one that's on there. That is my one gripe about the A300. It's other than the placement of the sling swivel in the back, the sling stud location in the back.

It's not great. No, I actually have some solutions for the sling swivel in the back, but I'll be honest, using the factory one that's on the toe of the stock. I really haven't had a lot of gripes. I mean, it's not optimal, but it works. It does. It works. It's like I said, it's it's a minor gripe that I will probably address at some point

But until then I just had to change how tight I like to run my slang to make it work. So yeah But you know or as after in so far as the aftermarket support for the a300 The truth of matter is is that like if you want to change the forend if you want to put a red dot on it If you want to put a sling on it if you want to change the forend if you want to put a red dot on it If you want to put a sling on it if you want to put side saddle carriers Most of the things you would want to do to a 1301 you can do to a 300 The number of things you can only do to know to a 1301 if you like to aftermarket modify your firearms That you cannot do a 200 300 is a very, very narrow list.

It is. So, and performance wise, there is a slight edge to the 1301. The lock to lock time on the blink action is faster. No argument. But if you can't pull the trigger and hold on target, well, and I take advantage of it. it can't you and I cannot at this point Yeah, I I am NOT the illegitimate son of Jerry Mitchell like as much as that bothers me, right?

That'd be great, especially with his ammo budget. My god. Yeah, but Class with a bunch of guys running 1301s two guys guys running Benelli's, one guy running a trench gun, Andrew was running his 1301 and I was running my A300. There was not a single drill that I was falling behind on because of the gun. I was always the problem. But isn't it the way with like almost every class is that the so I When I was younger, I used to autocross a lot So a lot of like my analogies come from the car world But we always used to say that 90% of the problem is the loose nut behind the wheel

It's true, I mean if you get to the point where you are out running your your a300 great You've put in enough reps that shotgun has paid for itself. It doesn't owe you anything upgrade But realistically With the recoil on a 12 gauge even if you're mitigating it Correctly the way you should using like a rip it or a push-pull or however You want to how whatever you want to call it, style recoil mitigation. You're probably not getting back on target before that action

has fully cycled anyway. Very unlikely to be perfectly honest. I've yet to outrun it. Ammo. So yeah, I was looking around and see if I actually had like a box of shotgun shells lying around around which I think they're all put Away, I do have a case sitting over there, but I really don't feel like having to you know Pick it up and bring it over here

To quote a few different YouTube personalities and truck Shotguns are shotguns are a thinking man's gun Number one because of the low magazine capacity and number two, ammo selection. You guys that are in the Patreon group, you saw that I just recently got a couple of big boxes. In fact, it filled the backseat of my pickup full of mixed miscellaneous ammunition for shotguns. And I'm pretty sure I said F you. You did. You were a little upset with me. To be fair though, like 300 rounds rounds of that was was like three inch plus magnums that I cannot shoot So those are those are getting sent down the rock down the river to somebody else

I know who really hates themselves. That's that's not that's not the rule yours That means you're obligated by a new firearm. No, no, I found I found a home for them before the seven-day window Okay, I'll give you that. But no, I will probably sort that out. But as look, I have no use for a three and shotgun. I really don't. I know people that are three and shotguns that use them. Now, yeah, give it time.

But no shotguns. The great thing about shotguns is the variety of ammunition. I mean, you can have stuff like this. This is a one ounce slug. So a solid one ounce lead projectile. Winchester Surplus military overrun double lot nine pellet. Have you shot any of that out of your A300 yet? Shockingly consistent.

Isn't it though? Shockingly consistent. Isn't it though? At seven yards, everything was in the eight ring on a standard Ipsic torso target. Which for those of you that don't know, it's like, eh, figure like what's your plate spread in your armor. So like a 10 inch diameter circle, which yes, no, you could argue that that's bad. But I don't have a seven yard distance in my house where I will be using my home defense

shotgun for home defense. If I am shooting at someone outside of the house. That's what this different round is for. That's another one ounce slug. So as a point of order, I paced off my house. The distance from my bedroom to my front door is seven yards. Perfect. And my 3A300 likes this Winchester MilSURPS better than yours does because it'll keep all those pellets in a nine ring at that range. Really? Interesting. Now the longest shot I could possibly take in my house from my bedroom to my

refrigerator is just shy of 15 yards. And at that range, it'll still keep all nine of those pellets in the seven ring. That's worthwhile. It'll still keep all nine of those pellets in the seven ring That's worthwhile. So this is part of the reason why like again admittedly Being very ignorant and owing to a lot of to it from you and from other patrons who know more about shotguns than I do I started really digging into this idea of like the shotgun is a payload delivery system The ammunition is what allows you to kind of like make this thing meet all these different needs.

Yep. And I got really hyper focused on, okay, real world examples. What are the distances in my house and how devastating is the shotgun at those ranges? And when I realized I was talking about seven and 14 yards in my house and 14 yards is the longest shot I could possibly take in my house. I Realized that that twelve gauge is the most devastating home defense firearm in my arsenal by a wide margin Because I thought you're getting nine thirty caliber pellets unless you're using federal flight control eight pellet

Which if you can find it buy it load it test it in Your shotgun you'll love it. It's like it it patterns like a slug 930 caliber projectiles and one trigger pull trauma element. Don't beat me to the punchline So yeah, so Like that's been my observation is that we add at what is what I can say are home defense ranges because I've measured my own house. 12 gauge double odd nine pellet buckshot is going to put more anger onto a target than anything else I can bring into a fight. This is from a guy who's been a rifle guy his entire life. And I can tell you that the payload delivery capabilities of 12 gauge have impressed me so much

that I could honestly say inside of a house, I might grab that 12 gauge before I grab anything else at this point. The only thing that I would say that makes an argument is you live in a state where suppressors can be had. I don't own any. I know, but I'm saying if a guy did own a suppressor and if a guy did have a short barreled AR to put that on,

either an AR pistol or an SBR, that would be king simply because you're not gonna have time to don hearing protection. I don't know about you, but I've had 12 gauge popped off near me when I didn't have EarPro on. It sucks. That was outside. Do not want inside.

I mean, what's a ruptured eardrum next to a home page? I will take that choice any day. Fair enough. But if I had the option to use an AR with a suppressor for my home defense platform, 100% yes I would, but my state sucks. Sorry. I keep offering to help you find a house down here. You keep saying you keep bitching about the mosquitoes and the

heat and stuff. The mosquitoes, the humidity, my wife not wanting to be that far from family. Okay I can't imagine which one's worse. I can't help with not wanting to be far from family but I'll act like her crazy older brother and I'm pretty fun to hang around and the mosquitoes that's why you that's why they make birdshot when i know i know we got to get out we're gonna try to get out of the state eventually yeah oh it's not got a bad point steward said an 870 with a 28 inch smooth smooth with chokes 18 inch tactical and an 18 inch rifle is the ultimate apocalypse firearm that's actually what he was trying to encourage me to buy instead of the A300 was... You can do the same thing with the A300 though.

And now you've got a semi-auto one ounce slug delivery system. Can you change the barrel for that short 19 inch to a longer one on A300 though? Yes you can because the A300 was a duck and goose gun before it was a tactical shotgun. Hmm. That might actually be worth thinking about. The A300 action has been around for like 20 something years. They've got 28 inch barrels down to 18 inch barrels. Well, 18 and a half, I think.

I think it's 19, but it doesn't matter. Yeah. Whatever it is. It's yeah, it's, it's short tactical barrel all the way out to full range. Goose barrels. They've got chokes for them anywhere from cylinder all the way to Turkey So Joe just said they had breakfast with me my family and I am entertaining I was actually trying my best to like not be a complete weirdo that morning But you know, my wife has social graces in the family. I'm just the moron. It is all about balance. Yes. Okay, so I see here some birdshot seems prudent now that we have a step

into this drone apocalypse. So this has been my recent thing with my shotgun is I first of all, I went and bought locally, some Winchester target loads and they were like that mid velocity like 1250 feet per second. Yeah, the like number eight or number seven, seven and a half in this case. Okay, seven and a half. Yeah, it's a very common target load. Yeah. And that's what I was looking for. Because I wanted something that like, I could say, Okay, well, run this and if I run this, it should be able to run things on your side of the margin. But I got some of that I ran through my a 300 by the way it frickin digested perfectly didn't bitch didn't complain

Ran it perfectly. I mean it ran it perfectly locked the bolt back on an empty magazine tube. It was perfect So I think I used for that class at at MDFI was 1,150 feet per second federal target loads and not a single malfunction all day. 300 rounds. So now that I know that my A300 will run it reliably, now I'm looking at a factory Beretta choke. Probably a modified I think is kind of the consensus from... You should have modified right now. I don't. that gun only came with one choke and it was a

Somerset model really mine came with a modified I'll have to get a part later number notches in the in the choke, but I'm pretty sure it's a monoprecious Unless I mistranslated mine One of us might be mistaken. One of us is wrong. Because I'm pretty sure that the A300 ships with a modified cylinder choke. I thought it was a cylinder choke.

Yeah, well, either way, I mean, I would look at, I'm going to be buying a full choke kit for my A300. I'm gonna be getting everything from cylinder to turkey see I really don't think I would use most of those chokes I'm mostly although you know maybe it would be thing to do depending on cost would just be to suck it up and buy the damn kit it is really by the kit then to buy onesie twosies I'm not shocked by that but what I'm really thinking about is it's like if I get the chokes for it and if I can find the choke that. But what I'm really thinking about is, is like if I get the chokes for it

and if I can find the choke that makes this thing run target loads reasonably tight, then I would have another option for utilizing this A300. Because currently with the cylinder choke that I'm pretty sure is in it, this thing, like I said, at 15 yards, it put Almost every pellet in an 8-ring. It was

Surprisingly tight at that range that is pretty conversely. I shot Three shots of that target load and it covered the entire target not just the entire silhouette the paper Yeah peppered the entire thing it went everywhere, and this is what it's supposed to do. But Stuart did indicate that that's the thing about shotguns and chokes is that normally a choke, it'll tighten up birdshot and it has the opposite effect on birdshot makes it start flinging pellets in all directions. Buckshot. That's what I meant. So bigger the pellet, the more the tighter choke makes it spread. The smaller the pellet,

the tighter the choke brings the brings the spread together Frickin shotguns or black magic. Well, it's it's because you're trying to squeeze a bunch of golf balls Through a two inch pipe versus squeezing a bunch of marbles through a two inch pipe There's just more room to compress those things down That's that's the deal. I There's just more room to compress those things down. That's that's the deal. I suppose that makes sense. And we've already talked about choke.

So we've gone out of order like we usually do. It's fine. Orders are relevant. Yeah. Now, the only other thing I'm thinking about. And I'll send you the link for it. It's an interesting idea. There is actually a company I found that makes they make aftermarket chokes for variety shotguns, including the A 300. And they make one they call the buck kicker for the A 300. Okay. It is an extended ported

choke made specifically for buckshot. So it's meant to mitigate recoil of which the A 300 doesn't have a ton of it to begin with and to neck and to make the that buckshot pattern a little bit tighter i'm not sure the pressures in a shotgun are high enough for a ported barrel to make much of a difference but i will be interested to try it i will send you the link so you can peruse it it's yeah it, it's like the only I think I'm pasta might buy it for science Yeah, I mean other than Other than just really wanting to get like the perfect choke that makes this thing spit out birdshot in a reasonable fashion That's the only other thing i've even thought about but I mean chokes are one of those weird things that me being a former

Rifleman coming into the shotgun world It's kind of like voodoo to me because it's like what do you mean you shove something in the barrel that influences how the shot patterns because like if you just shove random shit into a rifle barrel that's how you banana peel the rifle they you know it's supposed to do that but then the shotgun guys are all like yeah you just screw this thing in and it does this it does witchcraft inside and it makes it kill birds better. Yes. Yes It is seriously. It's been an interesting transition from a rifleman to a shotgun guy because I Told you convert you I've learned. Yeah, but I've learned things that still don't make any sense to me

Like what do you mean? That's the way Oh by and by the way I'm a nerd. We all know this i admit this i i i might even ashamed of it anymore looking at how the internal mechanism of shotgun works is i swear to christ it's like a rube goldberg machine that spits out that spits out lead bird machine that spits out that spits out lead as a manufacturing guy. It is a beautiful piece of technology. It is it is so beautiful. The way that thing works. You could not make that lifter mechanism more simple without making it worse. It is so wonderful. I will say that like in the past, I've referred to double

action revolvers as rubble Rube Goldberg machines because like if there if you have if you have never taken the side plate off of a Smith and Wesson revolver and looked at all the bellcranks and the gears and the The canoeder valve and the squirrel with the you know with the kazoo and all the crazy shit That's going on inside of there that they use to make this thing's Rotate the sonar spit out bullets the inside of a double-axe revolver is witchcraft Shotguns are that all over again just with bigger parts There but at the same time they're so deceivingly simple. It's interesting

Stewart saying put a duck bill muscle device on it Blunder bus Why not Stewart there was there Stewart was alive when they designed the blunder bus Well, that makes sense For anybody in the audience Stewart Stewart is the oldest human being I know he he was there He was John Mays Moses Browning apprenticed under Stewart He's gonna kick my ass one these days when he meets me in person He was there. He was John Mase's Moses Browning apprentice under Stewart. Mm-hmm He's gonna kick my ass one these days when he meets me in person, it'll be fine

It'll be fine. So two more things ammo carriers You were holding a one earlier and we were debating whether or not YouTube is down our feed. This I think is Probably one of the better ammo carriers you can get. It's incredibly simple. It's back to the last. It's elastic backed with Velcro. Yeah, buy some industrial Velcro and stick it on the side of your shotgun. If you buy an A300 it comes with the piece of Velcro to stick on the side of your shotgun. It's great. It's laser cut. It looks really nice on your shotgun. And you can just swap these things up. Best thing about these suckers,

they fit in a 30 round mag pouch if your state ends up deciding to be dick waffles like mine did, and I can't use 30 round AR mags anymore. Alrighty then, seven round 12 gauge shotgun cards. You can fit one on your receiver. You can fit one on your stock if you're feeling extra spicy for home defense. If you are able to have time to put your plate carrier on.

Great. Now you got mag pouches full of 12 gauge. The funny part about 12 gauge is that if you're talking about your traditional nine pellet buckshot, you actually have 27 projectiles, which no, no, no, no, I am totally screwing up math. Seven times nine, you have 63 projectiles, twice as much as an AR with 30 round magazine. Twice as much. Yeah. So you've got you've got five in the tube, one in the chamber, one ghost load.

You've got seven on the receiver. You've got seven on the stock of your shotgun. No, no, the eight 300 seven plus one. Not in Illinois. Oh, you poor bastard. I didn't mean to rub that in. Oh, I know. I know it took me an extra two and a half weeks to get my a 300 because I had to

buy a five round neutered version. That's why they gave you, that's why they gave you a $200 break on the price. You know, so they wouldn't kick in the balls twice. Pretty much. Yeah. But either way, let's be realistic here. There are very few problems in life that five plus one plus a ghost load of 12 gauge will not solve.

That that that's valid. That's valid. That's valid. As far as like ammo carriers for shotguns, like I don't even know if at this point we can justify the old school like plastic side saddles. They just, they have their place. There are versions of that now that are Velcro backed just like these.

And supposedly they do retain your shotguns a little bit better Joe asked if you can get a tube extension in Illinois technically, no Realistically realistically Good luck to Pritzker searching every UPSEx, and USPS package coming to anyone's home. They're not a controlled item.

Most manufacturers don't check because that's on you. So you do you and don't admit to it on the internet. Never admit to anything on the internet. Mm-hmm. Never admit to anything on the internet. And so the very last thing, and this is where I return the favor for Nick participating in my shaming and bullying to force me to get an A300. Red dots on shotguns are a war crime. They're the best kind of war crime. Dude, I'm going to tell you that like, and this has been like the final and the most

recent addition to my A300 has been to go ahead and get a Scalar Works mount on it and put a Holosun 507 comp. I'm going to postulate for a moment and I understand that there are people that have feelings about Holosuns. You like things that are made in America and I'm not mad at you I get it but I'm going to suggest that that the the radical system that holosun has in that 507 comp which I if I remember correctly is a 2 moa dot with a 30 moa circle around it that is freaking tailor-made for shotguns it is so fast it is so quick to freaking line up in that optic and because of that 30 MOA dot when you're

bringing the shotgun back down at a recoil your eyes zeroes in on so fast like red dots on shotguns or war Look, I've been saying it for years. Donut of the death plus the center pip is the optimum red dot sight for a long arm. With a AR-15, until the recent ban went into effect, I was using a Vortex Spitfire 1X 32 mil donut with a pinpoint in the center. If you are within 50 yards and that donut is on your target, pull the trigger. You're gonna make a center mass hit. If you're at 300 yards and that center pip

is on their head, pull the trigger. You're gonna make it a torso hit. It is perfect for anything at a reasonable range with a carbine. It is even more perfect with a shotgun because if you can set it up so that your slug is your center pit and your ring is your seven yard group with your double lot, you can't go wrong. You don't have to re zero for first logs or buck.

You don't have to really re zero for, really re-zero for birdshot because you can probably windage that out if you're changing out your choke. I haven't done any 12 gauge shooting against clays with a red dot yet because I am waiting for budgetary reasons for my red dot. I'm pretty sure you can have, Joe asked if you can have a red dot in Illinois. I'm pretty sure you can have Joe asked if you can have a red dot in Illinois. I'm pretty sure you can. I'm not aware of that being made illegal in Illinois. But you don't get an estate police doesn't know what's illegal in Illinois currently. That is a good point. They're not even sure how to enforce it or what to enforce.

But I will say that the other pro to having a red dot on shotgun is that what a red dot does that even I didn't really appreciate when I first start when I first started getting into red dots border red dot does is it puts your aiming radical and your target in the same plane of in the same plane of view. So very rare sight. So to me, like you can train yourself even with even with iron sights to shoot with both eyes open. It's difficult in my experience. It takes a lot of training, a lot of practice because your eye and your brain are constantly

fighting over what's supposed to be in focus. But with a red dot, you open up both your eyes and you just see this covering red dot over your target and The weird part is that me having a pretty significant astigmatism red dots normally looks like Starburst and I just have to like know that the bull the very the center that starburst is where the bullets gonna go and figure Life out or the brightest part of that starburst where the bullets gonna go and figure life out or the brightest part of that starburst is where the bullets gonna go, whether that's on center or not. But in this case, when I shoot with both eyes open with this red dot, with this shotgun,

it looks perfectly clear when both my eyes are open. And I have not figured out why that is. An optometrist might know, all I know is that in practice at the range, I was able to have both eyes open, full field field of view because i'm using this little bitty you know like an arm our style micro red diet with really thin with a really thin bezel with a really big window. It doesn't really obscure much and i can see the entire range and i just see this little circle and pip sitting there over my target. That's why I say red dots on shotguns or war crimes. I will be the first to admit that when I first got this shotgun,

first took it out to the range of iron sights, the factory irons are good. They are surprisingly good. They are plastic, which I'm not a fan of and I will be replacing them with steel. You know, I, I, I'm a defensive weapon. I do not accept plastic sites. And yet in spite of that, how many police departments around the country have Glocks with plastic sites in them? How many police departments across the country have officers that can't hit a torso target under a time constraint? It's a

different discussion. No, no, it's it's the same discussion. These these the if if we're going to talk about the performance of police departments and the equipment they use we have to discuss the fact that the officers do not perform up to a level of a basic IDPA shooter, but But isn't the fact that the officers can't hit the broadside of the barn and drop their guns more than shoot them indicative of the durability of the weapon. Oh, the Glock. Yes. It's, it's like giving and it's like field testing anything with Marines.

If they can't lose it, break it or get it pregnant, then it's soldier proof. I'm not sure any object on the planet has yet to meet that criteria. Aside from the P 58 can opener, which is why it's the perfect implement. Somebody out there is a Marine who is giggling because the rest of y'all have your feelings hurt about Marines. I grew up with a lot of Marines and it is impossible to hurt their feelings because they weren't issued any. Right the guy that gave me all that shotgun ammo. Marine. Yes. You would love that joke. God bless my double dogs out there. I wasn't one. I couldn't fit my head in the jar. So I failed the test. I had to go into the army instead. That happens. Yeah. Gotta

love them. But yeah, I mean, I hear you about the plastic sites. All I'm going to say is like, I hear you about the plastic sights. All I'm going to say is like, if you got an A 300 and out of the box, you told me, dude, the plastic, the, the, the irons in air quotes, the FET, the open sites are fine. I don't need a red dot. I don't know. They are there. I don't know.

I ran too much on them. Yeah, they work. They're there. They are shockingly good for what they are. They're intuitive. They're there's they are shockingly good for what they are. They're intuitive. They're easily visible Their size is appropriate for a 12 gauge at reasonable at reasonable self-defense ranges You are not going to precision pick headshots at 200 yards. You're not going to that's not the purpose of the shotgun

but even that being said at 15 yards those those open sights put a slug exactly where I was aiming mm-hmm like No shot you need necessary. Yeah, they are out of the box shockingly good But I'm personally I aside from a sling that shotgun needs nothing out of the box to be fun a functional self-defense tool some s-tag ammo carriers Yeah, but I mean you if a guy was going to you know back pocket of his jeans or front pocket of his hoodie loaded there were guys at at the class that had no shell carriers guys running a 1301 he's loading out of his hoodie pocket that is it works i will

it works i will allow that red dots are not in the mandatory category for This shotgun or a shotgun. I will just say highly encouraged category I'm gonna I'm gonna tell you that for a hundred bucks for scaler work mounts and then I mean What does Hollis at 407 cost on Amazon or 30? 311 on Amazon if you're willing to pay Amazon prices. I've seen them cheaper than that. Yeah, you can get I'm just saying if you want it tomorrow, Amazon will have a two for 300 bucks. Yeah, but I mean, you could go

get a bargain bargain basement hollow sun 407 hell if you want to I mean, you could you could look at some like Gideon optics or swamp fox or some of the lesser known. And he's been recommending Zero Tech. Yeah. I'm still on the fence about that on whether or not I wanna try that for the shotgun. They are telling me, the guys from Zero Tech

are telling me that I can't break it with 12 gauge recoil. And so when we had that discussion about putting a red dot on a shotgun, like that is the only thing that worries me. It's just like putting a red dot on a shotgun like that is the only thing that worries me It's it's like putting a red dot on a frickin 50 BMG You're not talking about the same recoil forces. First of all that like a 9-millimeter handgun It's gonna induce with the slide going back and forth and we are way out of pocket when we compare it something like a 5 5 6 out of 16 inch carbine

So like the recoil forces are so much more violent. I have trust issues with Less than a certain quality level of a red dot put it that way. I think it's a hollow I think a hollow Sun Tricycon an aim point. I think any of those should be should be more tax Vortex I have there for their warranty man. I have beaten the absolute piss out of my vortex optics And I have yet to have one fail, but battery hungry. Yes, but having one fail never So the only thing the only concern I have and this isn't personal this is secondhand but I have talked to a person that has

I can't remember which What they call it, but it's like their version of an rmr. Yeah I have I have heard secondhand that that one does not have the durability that the rest of the swamp fox red dots have Like it's what I have what I have there on that ar rest of the swamp box red dots have like it's what I have what I have there on that AR is a strike fire to which is basically a comp a copy of like an old aim point comp and it's enormous it's heavy it uses a CR two battery which is the only thing in my entire inventory that takes that god awful thing but

it works and it's taken a lot of beatings, so I can't complain too loudly. I don't know. I would just say that like whatever red dot you think about for a shotgun, just go into it understanding that you are going to torture test this optic because of the firearm you're putting it on and choose accordingly. And I would say that be mindful of the reticle. I highly recommend the 30 to 32 MOA donut with the center pit. For shotguns, there's no reason to deviate from that. There's not really a huge benefit to going to a single dot, either large

or small. It's not like a pistol. It's nice to be able to pattern your shotgun and know that all of your pellets are gonna be inside of that donut, whatever it is. Yeah, and I'll also say that like, the one thing I can tell you is that no matter what red dot you think about putting on a shotgun, I've been super impressed with Scalar Works mount.

Reptilia makes another good one, and there's a couple of others out there that I've heard of that seem to be well liked. I'll be honest, having put Scalar Works on my shotgun, that's the only one I'll recommend. So, this might sound weird, but I notice I noticed things when it looks, when I talk about a product that like, are outside of what the actual product is. And what really grabbed me about Scalar Works is, Nick, if you meet a person and you notice

like their office is like hyper organized, everything's put away, everything's boxed up or pinned up, everything's labeled, you start to get a feeling for that person based on their workspace, right? Absolutely. When you open the scaler works box that that mount comes in, every single thing is in its own individual package. Everything is labeled. Everything is stupid proof. The mount has the torch specs written on it. Oh, that's nice.

So what I look at is, and if you read the instructions, it makes it almost freaking idiot proof. I appreciate the fact that I see obvious efforts made to make the process of installing this mount on your shotgun as painless as humanly possible and That catches my attention. So like for that, I haven't handled a reptilia They probably make a fine product everybody tells me they do But when I open to the box that scaler works and I see they include the Torx bits you need They include all the screws the screws already have Loctite applied to them.

The Torx spec is written on the mount. All those things catch my attention. And I'm like, oh, you guys put some thought into making this dummy proof. You know, this reminds me of a quote from my grandfather. I started working at his machine shop when I was 13. And one thing he taught me and he insisted on was the packaging is the first thing your customer will see and that sets the expectation for your

product. And that is a lesson that I have tried to apply to life in general. How you present yourself is the first thing that you are going to get as far as impression wise. And if you screw that up, you got ground to make up. But if you do it well, that can that can assist you. Now, Joe brings up a really good point. What is patterning a shotgun? What it is, is taking loads from your shotgun at a known range, a known distance and firing

them and seeing where the pellets fall. Phil's shotgun using the Winchester ammo at seven yards. What did you have, Phil? I kept all my rounds inside of a nine ring on an Ipsac target. On the exact same make and model of shotgun with the exact same make and model of shotgun, with the exact same make and model of ammunition, I had them all in an 8 or a 7 range, depending on the shot. That's a pretty significant difference. We have the same shotgun, we're shooting the same ammo.

Shotguns are weird like that, because you have a cluster of pellets that you're forcing down a barrel. So what you do is you buy a number of different ammos in the type you want, say double lot buck. So I bought a bunch of this Winchester military overrun because it was cheap, it's double lot, it's probably going to send. No problem. I've also got some Federal Flight Control 8 pellet on the way. I've got some Federal Flight Control, some regular nine pellet on the way. So you and I need to talk about that federal eight pellet. Just it's magic. It is like slugs at 12 yards.

We need to talk about where the hell you found some, because I've been looking. I got a guy. Don't worry about it. You're you're you need to introduce me to your guy. Nick, you can hold it. I bought it all you son of a only had two boxes we only had two boxes and besides it was from Illinois so I'd have you'd have to get a background check to get it anyway oh I hate your freaking oh yeah we got to get a background check every time we buy ammo now you know how many background checks I've had this year

It's gotten ridiculous as Many as your governor's eating cheeseburgers, apparently Yes, that's a bad joke Burgers, I don't know if I can keep if my budget can keep up with this cheeseburger consumption, but we're getting close. We're trying No, next time I find some online, I will let you know. Lucky Gunner was the last place I found it online, but I knew a guy a couple towns over that had it. That could be the difference, Stuart. Perfect.

If for some reason Phil ended up with a cylinder choke and mine ended up with modified, my slightly tighter choke shooting double lot may be the reason why I'm getting a slightly larger pellet spread. So perfect Stuart I need to pull that out and find out. So I will pull the choke out of my shotgun literally as soon as we wrap up because now I find my choke wrench now I'm extremely curious if you and I have different chokes in that shotgun, but that's we Do that that gives me a question about Beretta's quality control. I want it maybe the difference of five tube and

ultimate patrol Seven tube because it's technically two different models of shotgun. That's what I'm wondering it doesn't mean like I Don't know like I'm not trying to make excuses for Breda, but maybe that is the difference is. That could be the difference. I don't know. But I am very curious because I thought I had a cylinder choke in mind,

but now I'm in like, we're gonna go. And for those of you who have Breda's with the mobile choke system, for what I recall, the number of notches in the top of the choke tells you what it is But having had mine out of the shotgun once or twice. It doesn't look like it's neck and much down. So I Don't know. I'll pull it out and I'll let you know Nick, but I'm yeah, I mean it Everything I'm looking at online here except I'm googling as we speak right now It seems that the Ultima which is not the Ultima Patrol,

comes with a modified cylinder, and the Ultima Patrol comes with a cylinder choke, perhaps. And I have an Ultima Patrol. And I have an Ultima. The difference is the two round mag tube extension. Oh, we might've just uncovered it. But yeah, dude, pull your- That could be it.

I will, when I find my choke wrench. It is in my safe somewhere, it is a big safe. I keep mine with all my cleaning supplies on my workbench. Seemed like a good place to keep it. That's probably wise. I just stuck it in my safe because this is my first shotgun with an interchangeable choke so I didn't know what to do with it mmm but yeah I'm very curious what choke is in your shotgun

because if that's the case then your I need a cylinder a cylinder choke might be all you need to tighten up your barrel a little bit. I mean, and if that means this 500 rounds of Winchester military overrun can put me in a like six inch pattern, that'd be, that'd be very, very nice. That's I mean, like I said, that's every shotgun patterns differently. What I can tell you is that mine, mine seems pretty consistent. One inch per yard, but that's not a very common, but that's not a hard fast rule because it didn't, it didn't make a 15 inch circle at 15 yards.

It was smaller than that. So yeah, that I got to admit this Winchester mills serve that I got. And by the way, I overran you and I got three cases of it. I've shot a couple of boxes, but you know, it's like, it's what's 65 cents a shell for nine pellet, double odd buck. It's hard to argue. It's so freaking economical.

Like once I got the first case and I ran it through my gun and my gun seemed to like it. I was like, yes, my one thing to notice some of it is steel cup instead of brass. Yeah. So you're not going to be able to reload it if you are a shotgun reloading guy and be cautious of moisture. I'm not. And I don't intend to be because reloads are sure no I mean reloading I am NOT buying a whole nother reloading subs reload shotgun no probably nope nope nope I probably will just to make just to make overly

complicated and unnecessarily heavy shooting slugs no I'm resisting the urge do it no no I'm just saying I'm just saying full brass 12 gauge helpers there listen y'all y'all have already seen me into buying a shotgun copper for our rain model of the cop y'all have already shamed me into buying a shotgun. You were not shaming me into reloading for shotgun. I got to draw the line someplace. Nonsense. There's no line to be drawn here.

There is. I'm getting encouragement from third party sources. Well, he's hardly trustworthy. I mean, he's a little sketchy compared to me. That's fine. I'm a little sketchy. We all are. We're's a little sketchy compared to me. That's fine. I'm a little sketchy. We all are. We're all a little shady.

Okay, so I don't know what else we could really talk about in the realm of shotguns. I mean, the truth of the matter is, is like, I will be the first to admit I came into the shotgun world with some preconceived notions that were partially based in bull crap and partially based in like my own limited experience and

once I opened my mind and started like Started thinking about okay. What is a real because again come from like that military experience My mindset was well if you can't shoot at 300 meters, then what's the point? But then you start measuring the inside of your house and you're like, my house isn't 300 meters wide. No, it is not. And if it is, congratulations, sir. Yeah, seven, seven, seven freaking yards will get you from the front door to the to my bedroom. So if I can control seven meters, or seven yards, I'm golden. And when you start thinking about things in terms of that, that, that, Oh, well, this, this cheap Winchester milserve double odd buck, it, it makes a nine inch circle at seven yards is like, but a nine inch circle is nine freaking

pellets hitting the body at seven yards at 1,350 feet per second. There's an awful lot of vital organs in a nine inch circle. Yeah. It's that really is kind of like what has won me over towards the shotgun world is like it is I was a shotgun guy either man yeah, I got forced into it and honestly, I Love it. Now. It is one of my favorite firearms in my safe right now. I

of my favorite firearms in my safe right now. I still don't know that I have any kind of like emotional or particular attachment to a 12 to a shotgun only because like to me everything is like tools in a toolbox. Oh sure, but I'm like the effectiveness is is undeniable. But that's what I was going to say. Like I think what I think what has won me over is if I look at everything in terms of the capability it grants you, what a 12-gauge is to me is the ability to put more violence on target faster at realistic home defense ranges than any other firearm in my inventory and I've always been really big about this does something this doesn't that's why it's here because these these there is no one firearm that does everything perfectly well I don't have anything else that can put 430 grains of violence onto a target in one shot

and to go a little bit further nine five five 6 round or 8 5 5 6 rounds rounded up but let's let's put this let's put this in terms okay a shot the the bread a 300 if you don't live in cuckville illinois sorry no no hold it is cuck state but mine will hold you can ghost load mine with seven in the magazine and one on the lifter and an empty chamber If you really want to be creative you could put nine into it, but let's let's make eight Let's make it eight because it makes the math nice and simple. Okay. Yeah, sure eight one ounce slugs or eight one ounce buckshot rounds half of that is the That is the ability to put half a pound of lead at 1300 feet per second plus

on target in Seconds there's no other fireman my inventory that can do that can do that So the shotgun has won me over By the fact that yes, Joe has to quote Clint Smith Clint not clean man is accurate Look Clint is Clint though. I will say that if anybody is has never heard of Clint Smith Your parents deserve to be slapped you should go to YouTube and you should search for a place called Thunder Ranch. He's an experience Clint Smith is a national treasure But he said with the right load at the right range will remove chunks of your opponent and throw it on the wall

Shotguns are an incredibly devastating things and you know when we were talking about ammo We didn't even talk about like breaching rounds less than lethal or any of the other stuff If you're gonna talk less than lethal's Personally in a home defense situation, I think less than lethals are a waste of time and a liability. Because regardless of what load you put in a firearm, if you shoot it at a person,

even if it is a less than lethal or less lethal, the DA is going to prosecute you as though you fired a lethal round. So you might as well use the real thing. I thought about this. I agree with you except in one case. Sure. If you are in that unique situation where you have every legal right to send somebody to meet their maker. Sure. But it's a person you really, really really really don't want to shoot like a child or friend Or a close family member my friends don't usually put me in situations where I'm pulling a 12 gauge Phil

We need to talk about your friends and not all are my y'all are my friends and y'all are all psychotic But what I'm saying is like imagine yourself if you're in that situation We're like I really don't want to end this person's life But I cannot allow them to harm me or harm somebody else in that narrow Situation I can justify less than lethal ammo because I am Well within my legal rights to send them to meet Jesus. I really don't want to kill them unless I have to That's fair and I admit that it I admit that is a very narrow Scenario, but I thought about this and thought to myself

Is there any possible justification for this and that was the one I came up with was what if you're dealing with like? Your your your you I have a daughter. Let's say I have a crazy ass ex-boyfriend He's trying or a crazy ass boyfriend's trying to break in through the front door. Daughter doesn't want me to shoot him. I might not want to shoot him unless he's a dirt bag, in which case he'd already be occupying a hole in the backyard. But what if I'm in that situation where this person is trying to force entry to my home, let's say they're having a psychotic break, they're having a mental issue issue. They're off meds. I know this person would not want to harm me under normal circumstances, but given the unique situation, I have to stop them. I don't want to kill them if I don't have to. In that narrow circumstance, I can see less lethal ammo. Because that's that's the way police, the police officers use it. It's, I am within their use of force and within their force continuum, they are authorized to use this ammo. They really don't want to kill you if they don't have to. My biggest problem with that is most less, less lethal.

Ammos will not reliably cycle a semi-auto shotgun. True. And that's why I have to one to two other officers backing you up at home with lethal weapons drawn That is the other side of that equation unfortunately, so if it doesn't work and your shotgun does not cycle What are your options now you have to do an emergency reload How fast can you emergency reload in a team based situation with other officers makes sense.

Totally understandable. It is if I ever, and I really hope this never occurs. I'm in a home defense situation. I do not have a team backing me up. I have my wife on the phone with 911. I have me and whatever's in my hands. I don't have a backstop. I am the backstop.

So to me, if I am taking the choice of a lethal option, of which shotguns are a very lethal option We're not playing around with left less than lethal anymore No, that's a perfectly fair argument. I'm just I Really ragged my brain to try to figure out like is what what is that use case for less than lethal? and that's the only thing I come up with and Again, I put myself in that position of like, if it was my daughter having a psychotic break, sure, I would roll the dice on less than lethal. Absolutely. I would have children. I can understand

that. Honestly, I would probably roll the dice on trying to subdue her with my bare hands and not even have to use the shotgun. Like, I would figure out I would be willing to put myself at risk of substantial harm to not have to end her life. Yeah, so I agree. But at that point, I I'm not a father. Yeah, I'm not I don't have children If I did I can understand that but at that point I probably am NOT grabbing a shotgun. I Am probably gonna go hands-on. Yeah, if it was my child or

like a niece and nephew I'm a pretty big strong guy. I don't like most my niece and nephews that much Yeah, I know but I don't have any of those either the the only one that's on the way has not been born yet So I'm pretty sure I can overpower a fetus Yeah, pretty sure. Pretty sure. I'm a pretty big guy. I lift heavy things a lot. I'm fairly certain I can handle a fetus or a young teenager. That's probably not going to be a problem in a hands-on

situation even if they had a weapon. I mean, unless they have a firearm, in which case we have escalated well beyond reasonable. Before we walk this one out, this is another good one. There's a loose bolt in the yard. You want to drive off. Yeah, I mean, if nothing else, use less lethal for animal control where you just need something to get the hell out of your yard without killing it.

You know, I did not think of animal control. That is very reasonable because there are very few animals that when you whack them with something, aren't going to run off. Yep. All right. Well, I guess let's go ahead and start working this one out the door. I mean, we could sit here for another half an hour and think of what we miss when it comes to shotguns. I mean, I feel it gets a big, big topic.

Many things. The spread's pretty good. Yeah. But I do. I do want to find somebody we can bring on to like talk the topic a little bit that has a bit more experience I just like what what what has captivated me about shotguns is that It's the ability to put CNC I haven't taken a professional shotgun class you have to me I have he it is it is 110% the payload delivery capability of a 12 gauge relative to a variety of firearms

I've handled most of which I can't play with anymore because you know, and if a tax stamps and government regulation things like that but the point remains It's the ability to put more violence on target than anything else in my safe at very reasonable home defense ranges. It's an impressive payload delivery system that I've really taken to. I think that for the person out there that, especially if you live in a state where, frankly, you need to toss your politicians into a volcano because they keep passing gun control laws but if you're in that place where you know, I don't want to give uncle Joe his do but That 12 gauge Makes a hell of an argument

if you're in a place where an AR 15 can't and I would say that I have both those options available to me I Think at this point if I didn't need to run night vision, I might grab the shotgun first. Single trigger pull efficacy in a home situation at home ranges, shotgun is probably going to be more lethal faster. Yeah. You know, fortunately or unfortunately,

however you wanna look at that, I try to decide on the most effective tool for the job in the least time possible. That's why I have a Sawzall for when I do demo work. And shotgun, it's awful hard to argue with a one ounce payload. It does solve all the argument I mean even if someone's wearing armor the the The muzzle the energy delivered on target is enough to at least make them question their life choices Yeah, anybody that wants to argue that just Google back force death or back face death from deformation

You know it ain't going to penetrate the armor. No, this is going to make you miserable, but it's going to smash the armor up against things that aren't made of steel or ceramic. Put it that way. All right. Let's go ahead and punt this one out the door. Matter of fact, podcast. This is my boomstick. And if you haven't bought a shotgun yet, you should probably consider that.

And if you have bought it, and if you haven't bought a shotgun yet, you should probably consider that and if you have And if you have bought a shotgun and you have not committed a war crime by putting a red dot on it Then I'm gonna judge you out loud Repeatedly until you give in because that's the treatment I got from all of you say this out there when I put off buying a shotgun For this long until you finally shame me into it. So now I'm gonna return the favor Good We deserve it. Matter of fact is going out the door. Good night everybody. Night. So Thanks for watching!