The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Raising Values: Adoption

Episode Date: August 18, 2024

https://www.facebook.com/RaisingValuesPodcast/www.pbnfamily.comhttps://www.instagram.com/raisingvaluespodcast/http://www.mofpodcast.com/www.prepperbroadcasting.comhttps://rumble.com/user/Mofpodcastwww.youtube.com/user/philrabSupport the showMerch at: https://southerngalscrafts.myshopify.com/Shop at Amazon: http://amzn.to/2ora9riPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/mofpodcastA patron request, and some very heartfelt talks offline between he and Phil brought this topic up today. Phil and Gillian talk through Phil's experience growing up as an adopted child, and the mixed emotions when he decided to look for his biological family.Raising Values Podcast is live-streaming our podcast on our YouTube channel, Facebook page, and Rumble. See the links above, join in the live chat, and see the faces behind the voices.family, traditional, values, christian, spiritual, marriage, dating, relationship, children, growing up, peace, wisdom, self improvement, masculinity, feminity, masculine, feminine

Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values Podcast through Patreon. Bill and Gillian are behind the mic, and we hope you enjoy the show. welcome back to raising values good morning everybody okay now the camera is a little more off than i thought it was that's okay we'll deal today but i swear it's like we always obviously we said set up the camera and everything the night before. We never leave it in the dining room. I don't like the clutter of leaving a whole studio in the dining room.

But yeah. Yeah. So we're a little off today. I mean. It is what it is. That was weird good morning everybody um so obviously we have to talk about um things coming up and things that are going on so again your shirts are ready um if you want to head over to Southern Gals Crafts and get some Raising Values merch, that would help out Tiffany and Chris. Chris.

I know. Y'all, it was the first week of school, and it's like I told my sister-in-law last night, there ain't no tired, like first week of school tired. I don't think I moved from the couch a whole lot yesterday. Piper came home from Friday, and I found her curled up in her bed 15 minutes after y'all got up. She went straight to her room, and I thought maybe she was just decompressing, listening to some music or whatever. I thought she was changing. Or changing out of her uniform. And she didn't come out.

She didn't come out. She didn't come out. She didn't come out and she didn't come out. And so, yeah, those teenage, those teenage, um, tired, let's take a nap after school kicked in Friday. Um, and she, you know, she was only in school twice, two days, Thursday and Friday this week. I was back Monday and then the week before I was in the classroom a couple of days just getting everything ready. But yeah, I'm tired. I'm excited for tomorrow. Tomorrow is my first Monday back for the year. It's also my busiest day. And so I'm anxious to see how that works out. I see almost every single class tomorrow except for two preschool classes and the kindergarten class, but everyone else will filter through my room at some point during the day tomorrow. So tomorrow I'm, I will probably come home and collapse like she did on Friday, but we'll see. Um, but the rest

of my week is really good. So not that you need to know my schedule or anything, but I'm excited for this year though. I'm excited to be back in school. I'm excited to have structure and, you know, something to do every day, getting out of the house, getting my steps in, you know, working my brain, working my muscles and body and having a task. I work well. I work better when I have a task and something to do. I mean, it has nothing to do with today's topic, I work well. I work better when I have a task and something to do. I mean, it has nothing to do with today's topic. If we didn't get off topic at least a little bit, it wouldn't be a show. Yeah.

And then, of course, Prepper Camp is coming up. So we are busy getting ready for that. Phil, Andrew, and their new co-host, Nick Emerson. So if you haven't listened to that episode, they announced that Nick was going to start part-time. Him and Andrew will be part-time co-hosts with Phil. So that's fun. Overall, matter of fact, Nick is just as much of a nerd and a geek as Andrew and Phil are.

So the conversations are going to be full of all sorts of information. Some things that you're just like, okay, how do you know that? Why do you know that? Well, but see, like the struggle with Matter of Facts has always been the fact that like, you know, when I started the show by myself, I started really looking for a co-host. And then when I found Andrew and he and I got to be friends, we live on opposite ends of the country. So, like, we've always done that podcast fully remote from the word go because we just had no choice. And sometimes I think we take for granted the fact that because you and I live together, you know, married and all that, like your co-host is here and we keep pretty much the same schedule on the

weekend. So like, it's never, it's never a question of like, Hey, are you available at 10 o'clock on a Sunday? It's like, yeah, I'm going to be right here. Yeah. But with that, with matter of facts, you know, we, Andrew and I had reached a point with my work schedule, his work schedule. We really did need a third seat to have some additional flexibility in the schedule. And also because Nick just comes from totally different background than Andrew and I do. And that's, I feel like that's what makes a show work is shared experiences, but different viewpoints, which is why this show works because

shared experience, but you and I like grew up totally different. We are polar opposites in a lot of ways. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. So there's that. That's that news. Prepper Campus, it's coming up. And then of course our merch, if you wanted to support the show in any way and support Tiffany and Chris in their small business out of Alabama, you can definitely head over and send the show notes. The link is in the show notes and you can see what's all available for raising values and upcoming matter of facts merchandise. So getting on with it, we usually keep a list of, and we've talked about this before, we keep a list of show topic ideas that we want to talk about. Some things are redundant. We've talked about that

before, but maybe there's a different viewpoint or maybe we've experienced something different within that topic. So now we're going to talk about it again. But this one has been on the list for a while. We have a listener who's, I haven't seen him in the comments yet, so maybe he's at work. Maybe he's not. I don't know. Sometimes he listens while he's at work. So maybe he's at work. Maybe he's not. I don't know. Sometimes he listens while he's at work.

But they adopted their son. And one of the things that he asked us was, well, they ask us a lot of questions a lot of times. We've kind of been through that phase of our life. Their son is younger than Piper. And so while we didn't adopt Piper, obviously, we've been a parent to young children or a young child. And so I am always, always willing to give my viewpoint and share my story of what it was like to raise Piper in different ages and different times in her life and in my life and in your life. So if a parent ever wants to reach out and say, oh my God, I'm struggling with this. How did you do it? I will give my opinions and how we struggled and then what worked for us and things like that. But one of the things that he asked us was, how do you talk about, how do you suggest talking to your son about the fact that he's adopted? And so we've kind of, not that we struggled with this conversation, because obviously this hits home with us because Phil is adopted.

His brother is adopted. My uncle is adopted. We have a lot of, we have a lot of family and a lot of friends who adopt or are adopted. My uncle is adopted. We have a lot of, um, we have a lot of family and a lot of friends who adopt or are adopted. I mean, even I teach with another rabble at school, her husband is a rabble is the rabble who is adopted. He's adopted as well, which is kind of crazy because people come up to me all the time. Is that your sister? Do you work with your sister? And it's like, no, it's like like my third cousin but it's weird because they're both rabelais there our husbands are both rabelais but they're both adopted and so and side note while we're talking about that

when he and i first met it was through a mutual it was through a co-worker of mine a mutual friend of his and she had jokingly referred to us as cousins because we're both rabblies there there's there's enough of us around but not a ton of rabblies and uh when we actually met each other we started talking about like where's your family from where's my family from because you can figure out how closely related to rabblies are if you trace their family history back about three or four generations and come to find out his grandfather and my grandfather grew up probably about five miles apart in two different little tiny little towns in rural Louisiana. And yeah, my dad was, my dad was pretty much like, yeah,

y'all are probably like fifth cousins. Like you've never, you've never met each other, but if his grandfather and your grandfather the same age grew up that close to each other, y'all are not that far apart. Yeah, that's what we end up saying to each other because she still works in the preschool and I work in the elementary. Didn't you work with her before me and him met? Yes.

Yeah, and the two of us were just kind of like, oh, we're related somewhere. I'm sure, you know. But anyway, so the students will ask us a lot of times you know how we're related is that your sister is that your cousin whatever and so we finally just started to say oh well lynn is my my third cousin she's just like my third cousin yeah but it was weird because i taught her kids too i still teach one of her kids and it's like oh that's just my like my fourth or fifth cousin i think piper i think piper's got mad too like yeah they well of course they did because the three of them all have the same last name.

So, and they're all reasonably close to the same age and go to school at the same school. But yeah. Yeah. Small world. But anyway, so today's topic is about adoption.

I don't know if you got any banners set up or anything, or if we're just kind of free flow in this one. Free flow. Yeah. So, um, I, I don't know. so i guess then to go back to what one of our listeners question was was how do you talk to your kid about adoption this is when i wish like maybe your dad or your mom um were here or would

like to pop in on the comments and kind of talk about their experience with two adopted boys. Yeah. Well, I mean, and I can talk from like my perspective as the adoptee and I've had this conversation with our listener too. Like he and I talked about this, but I still thought it was good to talk about on the show because I'm sure he's not the only person that might come across this show that's in the situation. Of course. I mean, it's not uncommon and it's not, you know, you have to think too, it's not just like going to an agency and adopting a child or whatever.

There are grandparents who adopt their grandchildren. There's aunts and uncles who adopt their nieces and nephews. adopt their grandchildren. There's aunts and uncles who adopt their nieces and nephews. I mean, families kind of take on these roles with children within their families that, you know, need a different. And even sometimes if we get past like the legal forms of adoption into like informal adoptions, you know what I'm saying? Like I have jokingly said that we adopted one of our neighbors as kind of like Piper's third or fourth, you know, grandparent. Yeah. Because it's the relationship that like we have together where she's called me in the middle of the night, you know, because like, oh, my sink is overflowing and I'll bolt over there and try to help her out. So like adoption takes on so many different forms, but it's most basic.

out. So like adoption takes on so many different forms, but it's most basic. What it really is, is it's establishing a, some sort of a relationship that is, that was not there previously. You know what I'm saying? Like for, for a parent adopting a child, you are establishing a relationship as parent child that wasn't already there. Or in the case of like, if you have a family member who's going through a hard time, you take them on maybe in a different capacity than you did before emotionally or even to physically care for them. But at the end of the day, to me, that's all adoption is boiled down to its core is you're establishing a relationship, but potentially a long-term or lifelong relationship. Well, yes. I mean, in your case, you were given up for adoption. And so your parents, I mean, that they wanted you like that,

that was, that was a sealed deal kind of thing. And thank God. Love you. But that, I think you're, you're about, when you talk about our neighbor, she's a friend. She's a very dear, close friend. We rely on each other for a lot of things. And, I mean, even if it came to the care of Piper, she would be one of those people, you know. But I think parents who adopt children who through whatever reason or whatever, that's, I think that's a little bit different.

I think then you, you're not just stepping into a role, but I mean, you are, but you're, it, it's so much more fundamentally different. It's a,

you're a parent. It's, you know, you may not have gone through the physical aspects of having your own child, but that child is yours and you're responsible for every last little duty diaper and snotty nose and tantrum and fit and happiness and whatever. You're responsible for all of those things, making sure the child is fed, medical insurance, all that stuff. for all of those things, making sure the child is fed, medical insurance, all that stuff.

And so that's not something that we would thrust onto our neighbor, so to say. But I get what you're saying. We've adopted her in such a way that she is like a close family member, maybe even grandmother type, but it's different. So you take it away so like i guess your father-in-law is in the comments okay yes um so that is okay so um my father-in-law that's what i was gonna get to okay well you go you go there okay i'm gonna be quiet because i really don't have all the experience about this i I just have opinions. So like my, my experience being, being the child that was adopted. And this is the thing I've told,

not just our listener, but like I've told lots of other people who are considering adopting or have adopted. I'm like, I think most people would fall victim to thinking like the way, the way it was done with me is the best way. But I truly, having talked to people and like unpacked this emotionally, I think the absolute best way to deal with like adopting a child is to tell them from the word go that they are adopted. That's what your dad said in the comments. You tell them they are adopted from day one. Yes. I think that's important because like I've talked to people who didn't know they were adopted until later in life, and it is kind of a shock. Whereas I feel like the way my parents handled it with me was I knew I was adopted before I knew what the word meant.

My earliest memories are of knowing I was adopted by my parents. And to me, there was never a shock involved. It was always, I just, I knew. What I think is super important to point out though, at this point is like, it wasn't just that I knew I was adopted. It was the tone they used with the word adopted. You know what I'm saying?

Like it was, so the way that they couched the conversation, the language that was used, the tone that was used, it was always to communicate that adoption was a good thing. Yeah. Because like think back to your earliest most formative memories. You may not be able to latch on to the things that were specifically said, but you remember the emotions. You remember feeling safe or feeling scared or you remember your emotions. You remember feeling safe or feeling scared, or you remember your emotions. And like, to me, my emotions always revolved around adoption being a positive thing. It was never a, your mother didn't want you, she gave, she got rid of you. It was always, she wanted you to have a better life. She let us adopt you. So it was, I think that's super

important, first of all, is so that you always phrase it in such a way that adoption is a positive. And you always phrase it as like, you know, like we really wanted to be your parents. So that it's never a, well, we just want a random kid and you were the one that was available. Like, you know, we're picking puppies at the pound. I think the way you phrase that to that young child can set a foundation that will, you know, that will shape how they view them being adopted for life. And I feel like if you lay that foundation appropriately, then that child never views adoption as a bad thing. They never view themselves as being unwanted or unloved. And then, you know, later in life, yeah, you might have to have some hard conversations with them about why they were given up for adoption but my hope would be that by the time you get to

that point in the conversation they're old enough and mature enough to like absorb some of it you know i'm saying like whether it was an ill time to unwanted pregnancy whether it was whatever whatever the cause for that child being given for adoption. But I still think that like, if you lay that foundation of, we wanted to be your parents and your, your mother, let us adopt you so that we could raise you as ours. I feel like that is like the absolute best way to, to start that conversation with your child. Yeah.

To start that conversation with your child. Yeah. I think, too, when you put it like that, at least in my heart, to hear that somebody, I mean, because adoption can come with a negative. You know, you do have that, well, why didn't my mom want me? Why didn't my dad want me? Whatever. That can, it can come with that. But on the flip side, you have two people who, like, picked you. You know what I'm saying?

Like, intentionally went out and was like, I want Phil. I want this child. This is my child. And I know. I want this child. This is my child. And I know that this is my child. Sorry, excuse me. And that doesn't take away from, like, well, you know, I had a natural birth with Piper. And that is my child.

I didn't pick her. Does that make sense? It's sense? I'm not making sense. Words are hard. Words are hard. I'm not trying to say like you were on a shelf and your parents were like, that one. I want the brown-eyed kid over there with the blonde hair. He had blonde hair, by the way. I had hair, by the way.

I didn't say it. I wasn't even thinking it. I was just thinking about the blonde- haired little boy with the bowl cut. I think the intention of adoption in its core is just so, it's just, it's like one of the biggest, my brain. Okay. It's just like one of the biggest balls of love. You know, you are, you have so much love as a parent that you want to give to a child. And you're given that opportunity, for instance, with you and with Michael, your brother. your brother, your parents had so much love that they just, they had to get, they had to give to their, their child. And it was almost like, um, mom, dad, I'm sorry. I'm trying really hard with my words. I know you're listening and going, what the hell is she saying? It was almost like, and correct me if I'm wrong. you knew Phil and Michael were your children. Those were your sons. Those were your boys. They have always been your boys from the moment they took their first breath. Whether or not they came into this world from another woman,

those were your children. Those were your boys. Does that make sense? Am I making sense? It makes sense. I, you know, I would also say that, like, that is, I mean, it really should go without saying, but just in case it doesn't. Like, you know, my parents never treated me like anything less than if I was their flesh and blood, which is the way it should be. And it shouldn't have to be pointed out, but just in case it does need to be pointed out, like that should be a central theme to adopting. It's like, this is your child now. And, you know, the way I've always phrased it, not even just specific to adoption, but to like raising children in general is like, you know, my perspective on like my child is whatever she accomplishes in life, I would like to think is going to be partially because of the

springboard you and I set up to propel her into life. So every, every good habit, her work ethic, her intelligence, everything that she developed, that we are working to develop in her as a child that propels her towards greatness as an adult, I'd like to think a little bit of that. We're responsible for a little bit of that. We're responsible for putting her on that path to do whatever she wants to do. And I feel like with adoption, that plays out. I mean, you don't get to pick the genetics of your child.

You could argue we don't get to pick the genetics of our child either. of your child. You could argue we don't get the genetics of our child either. But at least with our biological child, you and I can look at her and be like, there's physical and personality traits that you and I are very much like, oh yeah, that's a rabble-eater.

That's a house. But in the case of adoption, the thing that you will contribute to this child is the things that you teach them. And you will mold this child into your own image emotionally and psychologically, if not exactly physically. So like I guess my point of view is it's like you and I joke all the time about how I'll just let it roll out. Be like, you know what your father-in-law would say at a moment like this?

I was about to go down this road. Yeah. But the thing of it is that after 19 years of being with me and knowing my dad, is there any shock? Some of the opinions I hold, the things that I say, the way I approach certain things? No. It's because that's the man that raised me and that was kind of like my framework for husband, father, man. Yeah. So because it needs to be talked about, and this has always been a controversial topic in this family. When Phil came home from Iraq, despite what the rumors were, when Phil came home from iraq despite what the the rumors were when phil came home from iraq

he had a lot of questions and i would assume that most adopted people do i know talking to my uncle after his mom passed after grandma passed away he had a lot of questions of well what is my history where what is my you know birth family my birth family like? And so whatever. So Phil came home from Iraq. We talked about getting married. He wanted to find his birth family just to answer some questions. And so we set out to do that. And a lot of our conversations after we found his birth mom and his half brother and sister started to revolve around nature versus nurture. And what we were seeing with maybe what were some hereditary traits that were within Phil and what was nurtured into Phil, not I guess into is something wrong word, but into Phil.

I know what you're into Phil by his parents. Um, and there obviously there were some things there besides the physical, like the, you know, physical of looking like people in your birth family. Um, but what, what started to really emerge as we kept going down this road with birth family, with your birth family, was so many traits and characteristics started to not align and match up. And so that same conversation of nurture versus nature really started to flip on its head. of nurture versus nature really started to flip on its head. And we started to realize, because like I said, there were some things, there were some characteristics and traits that were obviously your birth mother.

But they were so small in comparison to the things that you were received from your parents. Yeah. That, you know, yeah, you, I mean, I probably hear about my father-in-law at least three times a week. And then we hear about my mother-in-law probably about the same, especially when you're in the kitchen baking with Piper or things like that. And, you know, he talks about you all the time. You don't know this, but you're actually raising Piper. But what I'm trying to say

is, you know, we started to do some comparisons. We had some, we had a lot of long, deep conversations, like really deep conversations about where we wanted to take this and where you wanted to take this and how much of your birth family did we want to have in your life or our lives and how much, you know, where did those lines skew and then where were they like firm and things like that. Obviously things played out and we started to see, obviously things played out and we started to see we started to see just how how much you know the direction we wanted to take i think what happened was like to your point you know i i wanted to find them more than anything else like you know and like i've said before like and i i again i would couch this to anybody that watches this who

has an adopted child who does eventually want to go try to track down their biological parents like for me it was never because i wanted to replace my parents they're they've they've taught me giving me everything it was really more i don't know another word for it than curiosity like i just i wanted to know where i wanted to know like that part of where i came from because this part being a rabble a there's no there's no mystery to that like i've grown up in this family i've grown up with these people everything that i've ever learned has been from them but there's still this little chunk that i didn't know and there's still this little chunk that I didn't know. And there's still a little chunk I will never know. My biological father's side of the family.

Yeah. Still don't. And we still don't know what the true story there is. But at the end of the day. If that's really your biological father. But at the end of the day, like, I needed to know almost like to just put it out, to put it to bed. And when we tracked them down, yeah, there were... I went into that with some preconceived

notions of nature versus nurture. And I don't know that I have fully put to bed that whole debate. And, you know, when you were in Costa Rica with my half-sister, not too long ago, was it you or was it

Ross's sister that said, I made the comment. Okay. Gillian made the comment that when her and Becker together, like she never feels like she's far away from me because apparently the, the cadence at which we speak is the same. Well, it's not just that,

but a lot of y'all's mannerisms are the same. Yeah. And then bear in mind, like this is my half-sister that we've only known her, well, at this point it's been about 15 years. Yeah. Maybe longer than that. But my point is we didn't grow up together. Right.

Like, I had already been on this earth and been with my family for over 20 years before I ever met her. And I never grew up with the family she grew up with or the environment I did. And yet there are aspects of our mannerisms that are so closely aligned, it's shocking. Yeah. And yet in spite of that, in a lot of ways, we're very different, which I think that that's that's always going to be the debate of like nature versus nurture is like the parts of me and her that are very similar and yet very, very different. But I was going down a road with this and then I lost it. You had a Gillian moment? I had a Gillian moment. I have, but you're rubbing off on me. But anyway, to your point about nature versus nurture, like what the thing that we

realized as we went down that road was that there was some, some very serious misalignment between our family to include, you know, your in-laws, my parents, and that family. So it got to the point where, like, you know, and it was never personal. It was never malicious, like, I hate you. I never want to speak to you again. But it was just a, like, I remember having to have that conversation with my biological mother at one point. And I'm like, she was upset because, like, I wasn't, like, calling and texting her every couple of days. was upset because like, I wasn't like calling and texting her every couple of days. And I was like, point of order, I don't talk to the parents that raised me every couple of days. And it's not because I hate them. It's because I'm a highly independent person. I'm very focused on this

little family right here, which is again, the way I was raised. Right. I was about to say, which is what your dad and mom would say is this is your focus. And I think that is what your dad said to us when we were getting married. What my dad said to you when we were getting married is exactly what he said to me. I couldn't tell you how young I was, but I remember being fairly young. I remember being fairly young and him firmly establishing his expectation that if I ever decided to get married, the day I am, he was very frank with me. I'll always be your parent. I'll always be your father.

I'll always be here for you. But the day you get married, that's your family. Because that is now your responsibility. And you don't get to shirk your responsibility because you're worried about me and your mom. We're adults. We're going to take care of ourselves. You have to shirk your responsibility because you're worried about me and your mom. We're adults. We're going to take care of ourselves. You have to focus on your family. And then one step past that was if y'all decide to have children, guess what?

That's another responsibility. So this idea that I had to call somebody every three days so that they knew that I cared about them was like, it was a serious misalignment. You know what I'm saying? Like, I don't want to, I don't want to sound cold. Like I can't have a person that, that clingy in my, in my life, but like it just, it very, it illustrated one of those really big gaps between me and that family. And I was just like, I don't operate that way. me and that family. And I was just like, I don't operate that way. I've got a job and a career and a 401k and savings and plans and things I'm trying to do here and a podcast I produce and another one that I host. And you know, like I've got, I have all these things that are in my daily hourly world. Chief of those is you and our daughter. And I't have i didn't i didn't have the room for

a person who needed that much constant reassurance that like yeah you know i was still here and okay yeah but and that's just like one example it goes so much further than that it was just at the end of the day i had to shorten up the apron strings a little bit but the thing i would going back to what i said initially i would always try to remind the parents who have that adopted child like if you've truly like put your heart and soul into raising this child they're not trying to replace you why would they try to replace the only parents they've ever known with two strangers that they didn't grow up with? But it really is, and I wish I had better words to describe it, but it really truly is like this just deep-seated, hard to put your finger on it. It's like there's a hole. There's something missing there. i just i had to know and now that i know i'm like okay i am emotionally at peace i can move forward but i would say that like for people who grew up with

their biological parents or even if even if it was like a child that was adopted by family members you would least know because that you have some link to your biological family. But for a child who's adopted by a completely separate family, like, yeah, that will potentially be a hole that they're going to have to fill sooner or later. And not all, because I know other children who are adopted who have no want whatsoever to find their biological parents. Yeah. But that is such a highly individual thing that if they choose to, I would just say, you know, help them if you can. Give them the grace to go look if you can't. Just understand that, like, they're not trying to replace you. I certainly wasn't trying to replace my parents.

I mean, my parents did everything for me. Right. And like thinking about the conversations I've had with my uncle who's adopted. Probably a lot of the same things. Why would I go find two people who didn't do anything in my life? Why would I, and he said, maybe he didn't say give up, but why would I go out and search for something when I have this? I have my parents who gave me this life and I'm happy here, whatever. Why would i do that and i think his his mentality on that his thought process on that changed when his mom gave him permission on her deathbed was like you really need to go do this you know i know who they are i at least knew she at least knew who

her his mother was it by name or whatever um and and i don't think my grandmother ever kept it a secret on purpose it wasn't like she kept it a secret because she didn't want him to go out and look i think she probably gave him those opportunities throughout his life and he just was like i don't want to that's that's not I'm interested in. But then he did become interested in it. And you talk about that whole, he had questions. He wanted to know, you know, where do I come from? What are my parents like? Do I have other family members? Whatever. So he went out on that journey as well. Ended up finding both his mother and father. Found out he has half siblings, just like you do, that his family, a lot of his family members, blood family members, live close enough that he can go and visit them.

And they hang out sometimes and things like that. But the same story that you tell is the same one that he tells. Are they family? Yeah. By blood, they're family. Will they ever replace anyone in their, in his family? Absolutely not. Does he call them, you know, did they step into roles of like, this is my aunt and this is my uncle? Yeah. And the really cool thing is they have, there's been

a lot of family functions that they have started to come to, you know? Um, I don't know how my grandparents would have reacted if he had done this when he was younger. Right now, I think my grandfather's just like, Oh, you do have another father. Can he help pay for this? Can he help, help you do that? I don't know. I don't think, um, I, I don't think Pawpaw feels threatened at all, um, by that, but he's also 91 years old too. So, um, but you know, you tell the same story that he does there, there was just this curiosity, this, this, these questions that needed to be answered. And I think you both went into that search, you know, down this journey of trying to figure out where some of your personality comes from, you know, answering some of these questions that y'all had, and you found those answers. And you were still like,

cool, I get it. I know where that comes from.. I see it in that person or I see it in this person or whatever. But you both still were like, do we have the same DNA in a lot of aspects? Yes. But my family is here. This is my family. These are my parents. These are my aunts and uncles. These are my cousins.

These are the people I grew up with. This is my family. Well, are you really my aunt and uncle? Yeah. cousins these are the people i grew up with this is this is my family well i are are we like are you really my aunt and uncle yeah do and and there there's never been this because there are people on your side your birth family side that um well hang on i'm trying to think you really don't talk to anybody on your birth family side except for Rebecca anymore. And that's because she lives here. She's one of my best friends.

She's married to your best friend. You know, and she's Piper's favorite aunt. Sorry, Phoebe. But, you know, she's come into our life, and I think for the betterment. I think we needed Becca in our life, and I think she needed us in her life. But I don't think we really talked to many people. We used to attend functions, but that just became really awkward and weird, and we stopped going. that just became really awkward and weird and we stopped going um well and i think i would like to say through no fault of anyone's i think the problem there was that like there were

people in that family that wanted us to be like in the fold because they'd been waiting for me to pop back up on the radar since I was given for adoption. And then there were other people in the family that were like, you know, they were polite, but it was very obvious that, like, you don't belong here. Yeah, we did kind of feel like that from a lot of people. And again, nothing was ever said overtly, but it was just, I felt it. Yeah, the seclusion and, you know. And even down to basic things like just, I just didn't, none of, the two of us, and even the three of us, when the poppers weren't, we didn't fit in.

Yeah. It was, it was not, it wasn't my family. Yeah. And a lot of that is just the fact that, like that I grew up very differently in a very different environment. And I grew up with people who encouraged me to be so much more of a free thinker and a critical thinker than a lot of what I was finding. It was so difficult to integrate. to integrate. It was,

I feel like if there'd have been a little bit closer alignment between that family, that family's like comfort level with us and other families wanting us to be like in the middle of that family. I feel like if that was in a little closer alignment, it probably would have worked a little better. But, you know, biological mother wanted to parade me around as her long

lost son. And the rest of the family was like, we don't know who the hell this is. Like here, this is a 25 year old man. None of us know. Yeah. And I don't know. For however, however that wound up happening the way it did. I mean, I think, I think the reason why Rebecca, you know, has kind of fit with us and us with her so well is because, like, we really took each other kind of where we were and as we were.

And we built a relationship. You know what I'm saying? There was never an expectation that, like, well, we're half siblings, so we're just going to be like we've we have yeah all this shared history together it was really a no i have no i know i know who you are but i don't know who you are so i'm going to learn who you are and over the course of me and her you know like building that bond together yeah there are things that she and i 110 do not see eye to eye on and never will as long as we live. I love her to death. We just don't. We're very, we are both fiercely independent individual people, but we built that relationship together. It was never assumed to be there.

And I think, I feel like, again, if you, if you're in that boat of being the adoptee who does go look for the biological family, like that's something that I would impress upon the adoptee and the family that gave them up for adoption of, you cannot go into this assuming there's this bond because it's not. There's no, you know, like there is no bond there. There is no relationship. If you want there to be a relationship, you have to build it and work at it. And you have to take the other person where they are. Because if they live six states away, they have a big family, big social life. If they're being pulled in 15 different directions already and you expect them to drop all that to pay attention to you, that relationship is going to grenade.

It's just going to grenade. going to grenade. It's just going to grenade. I think that's part of the reason why your uncle and his biological family have kind of come together because I've noticed they have some similarities. You know what I'm saying? They're all very much go with the flow, call me whenever you get a chance, no pressure, no expectations. And frankly, you and I have met them. They're just really nice. they're really genuine people like they're the kind of people that you don't ever have to wonder if they're bsing you because it's not in their nature they're just going to tell you the way it is right but those are the two things you stick your head into when you go look for your biological family

is you don't you don't know what's waiting on the other side this is the same reason why like we've discussed me putting some more effort in tracking down my biological father and i'm at a point now where i'm like he could be the greatest man on earth but i have no emotional will to at this point yeah like at this point i'm 41 old, beating down the door to 42. There is nothing but a couple of emails or text messages we'll ever exchange together. Like there is, he may not want to have a relationship with me. I don't know that I want to have a relationship with him or even speak to him. I just, well, and I think that that, that whole thing, there's a lot of questions now after, you know, talking to your sister and, you know,

things like that. There's just a lot of questions that we'd have to uncover first to make sure things are, but we have gone down that road. There was a time when Piper had to go in for surgery and we had no medical history of thing, you know, medical history of how they ask, who has this in your family? Who has that in your family? Well, that is one thing that we found came out of you being adopted is we didn't have the medical history. So we didn't know how to answer those questions. And then, of course, I have this little child who's going in for very minor surgery, very, very minor surgery. But my mama brain is going, well, I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know the answers to this. What could happen? What if she has something hereditary or blah, blah, blah? So we reached out. We did all sorts of research to try to find this man. Tracked the name down to where he lived and all that stuff. And then, you know, me, I, you know, could work for the FBI on Facebook,

ended up tracking this man's, the name of the man that we found. I ended up tracking his two grandsons. It was the strangest thing. They played football for Southeastern, which is where we went to school. It's the next town over. Contacted both of them. One of them was like, this is a little creepy. And the other one was like, yeah, I'll talk to my grandfather and see what he says. And he did. And he talked to this man. And this man said, I don't know what the hell you're talking about. I don't have a son. I don't have, I don't know this woman. You know, I don't know this woman, the name that I was giving for your birth mother. I don't know.

And so I'm sitting there going, either he has really, he's telling the truth. He has no idea who you are, that you really are not his son or birth son, or the story that we were given is not true. You know, one of those things, it has to be one of those things. And so everything kind of went cold at that point. I stayed friends on Facebook with the grandson, but nothing ever came to fruition. And so she went into that surgery, me praying and hoping that, um, there wasn't anything hereditary there.

Obviously there isn't, but, um, well, there wasn't anyway, but that's the, you know, that's the one thing that we've kind of run into is there are more questions. I have questions, but they're not my questions that, you know, if this is something that you don't want to pursue, I certainly am not going to pursue it with, you know, outside of what you want kind of thing. Well, and I think the big difference there is that like, at least, and again again this is just like me personally there was interest in tracking down my biological mother's side of the family because i at least knew based on conversations i'd had with my parents that you know she was communicative with them she wanted to be involved she apparently had reached out through the adoption agency to like try to get some updates on how i was doing so i felt okay, obviously there's a person here who has some interest in my life.

But on the biological father's side, we've got nothing. So I'm kind of like, this was worth pursuing because I knew there was something there. Whether it was going to come to anything or not, there was something there, at least there, here to investigate. But on the biological father side of the family, I don't know. Again, he could be the scumbag in his family and the rest of his family could be the best people on earth. I don't know. But I know that there's been nothing I've ever seen that's given me any indication that my biological father thought of me, knew of me, or cared. And at that point, I'm like, why do I even want to meet that person?

Why do I even want to meet that person? But again, I am one individual, and another child who's adopted could have very different emotions. They could say, I have to know so that I can put this out of my mind. Even if that search ends up at a tombstone, at least then I know. And so to kind of take this on another track, I don't believe in chance. I believe that everything happens for a reason. We're guided down these different paths because there has to be something that has to come from that.

guide it down these different paths because there has to be something that has to come from that. Had you not looked for your birth mother, you would have never met your birth sister, your half sister. Had that never happened, she would have never come here and met your best friend. They've been married for 10 years. You know, like what – sometimes I think about this, especially now that we've become so close to them, what would have happened had you not reached out to try and find this woman? Would they have found each other to get married? Would that have ever happened kind of thing? So, yes, you had questions. Yes, you were interested in finding the answers to your questions and things like that. And so you had a plan and you found her.

But out of finding her came this whole other family that, you know, happened because of that. Here's where to really bake your noodle. If I hadn't sent home a bunch of pictures of me from Iraq to a relatively small handful of friends I was keeping in touch with, then my picture would have never been on Amanda's fridge and we may have never met. Oh, I know. Don't even get me started on all of that because that's the life I live in. The cosmos throws a die that has an infinite number of sides to it to determine how things are supposed to play out. Like to use a Dungeons

Dragons analogy. This is not a D20. This is a D infinity. What? I'm just saying I don't understand that, but okay. I'm just saying that when you talk about if this hadn't happened, this wouldn't have happened, this wouldn't have happened. I'm like, how many times has one one little

thing gone one direction in the system yeah and that sent us down this path yeah but no i mean i yeah that that relationship would have never been and there's no telling where those two lives would have gone otherwise but anyway anyway anything else about adoption? Well, I guess I'll throw this in just kind of try to balance this conversation now, because I've talked about largely from my perspective, being the adopt the adopted child, because that's who I am. But there was a time before there was a time when you and I discussed the two of us adopting, like we wanted to have our own children, our own biological natural born children,

but we did discuss, we really want to be parents. And if for some reason that's not possible, we had talked about adopting, which I kind of went into with, I guess, I don't want to say a more informed opinion. I don't want to say more informed opinion than most people because't want to say a more informed opinion than most people because, like, of my own history.

But, like, I went into it, I guess, with the expectation that, like, if we decide to adopt, like, I already kind of have a framework for how to discuss this with that child that I think works because it worked for me. Yeah. And I don't know. It wasn't something the two of us ruled out. Never. Never. There are still times where every now and then you'll see something maybe on Facebook or Instagram. But it's usually a picture of a child or a child and their siblings or whatever. It's a group of children that have been in the system for so long.

And they really just want a family. And so they post a picture and then my brain starts going, could we? Could we adopt these two children? Or could we adopt those three children? Give them a home that they really need? Or this little boy who's been in the system for 10 years and he just really wants a mom and a dad. And could that be something that we do? I still go down that road. I don't ever really talk to you about it because I know you're going to be like, no, we have one that we can afford. We really don't need to have any more, but I still think about that. There was a time,

and especially growing up, that I always questioned, like I always had a feeling like I wasn't going to be able to have children. Well, I truly feel that Piper is my miracle baby. We lost our first pregnancy. I was afraid that I wasn't going to. Piper's pregnancy was so high risk that we weren't sure if it was going to go to term and things like that. So I don't know. I've always just had this feeling like, even though I wanted four children, I wasn't going to be able to have children. And when we, when I miscarried the first time, all of those fears, like, you know, rushed back up. I knew it. I wasn't going to be able to have

children, whatever. And so I've always considered adoption, even when I was really young. And, you know, I don't know if girls always think about that, but, you know, I always thought I'm going to have to adopt my children. But luckily that didn't happen. We ended up having Piper. So that was really good. But I don't know. that's just something that I always thought about and something that sometimes I still think about of, could we do that? You know, there's, here's this little boy or this little girl that really needs a mom and a dad. And I think we have our, our stuff together enough that we could bring in another child into this, this family. But I don't know, We never go through with it because it's just not something that I think that we should. I think from my perspective, like, I felt the pull to want to be a father.

I don't feel that pull to be a father a second time. Do it again. Yeah. And it could also be the fact that, like, you know, you're 40, I'm 41. Yeah. And it could also be the fact that like, you know, you're 40, I'm 41. Yeah. Now, eight, nine years ago when Piper was younger, like, I don't know.

I think if the first pregnancy hadn't been as high risk as it was, we would have probably made some different decisions. But like my biggest fear that I've expressed to you before was that like if we try for a second one, I might be raising both these kids by myself because you might not make it. Yeah. So I was obviously only destined to have one child, physically one child and emotionally, mentally one child. Like that was all my body could do. Yeah. And you know know at the end i i know that like that's that might be a whole nother episode to get into but i think we've talked about that but at the end of the day i was always just like the same way you said that like we're put on a path and we're guided through other things that we have to do like i took that as whatever you believe governs the cosmos and the world around us i believe was communicating to me loud and clear, like, Hey,

but you got one, be happy with her. Yeah. Oh, absolutely. I am, I am trying to gently tell you, this is your limit. Don't push me. Well, and yes, this is probably another episode, but you know, you get, when you have only one child. Sometimes people want to insert their opinion about how, well, she's an only child. Isn't she going to be sad that she doesn't have siblings? Isn't she lonely and blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. She's not, by the way.

Don't you want more? She cringes at the idea of if she had had a brother or sister. Yeah, she's definitely totally fine being an only child. Totally 100% fine being an only child. I think you and I were like half joking one time and asked her like, so how would you feel if mom and I had another child? And she started crying. Oh, I remember that.

She did. She did. She started crying and she did not. She was so mad. She did not want a brother. She did not want a sister she did not want a sibling at all she just wants dogs and cats yeah yeah so um but there there came a point where you know i so i started to say no we're one and done one and done one and done one

and done but people still want to insert themselves and not knowing. And I will say this because I try to tell this to people all the time. Never ask a couple, like a newly married couple, a newly married couple or just a married couple or just whatever, a couple. When are you going to have children? When is the first baby coming? When are you going to have more babies? When are you going to have more babies? When are you going to have another one? Because you don't know the painstaking issues that they have had. You don't know the emotional loss. You don't know the physical loss that those people have been through. Maybe that woman has taken over a thousand shots to get pregnant and she cannot get pregnant.

She cannot have a baby. Maybe, like me, she almost bled out on the table and died and physically was changed after having a baby and physically should not have another baby. and so after years piper being four five six sometimes i would have people ask me well when's the next one coming when are you going to have the next one not realizing and this is not their fault but not realizing just how hard that one was to produce the hell that I went through and you went through just to have that one, that I started to say, I can't have children. I cannot have any more children. And I remember the look on one person's face. It was like all of the blood drained and they understood, oh, crap,

I shouldn't have asked that question. Because I was just like, you, you, oh, get on my soapbox. This another episode this is another episode i'm sorry uh no you're good i'm just gonna keep talking i'm gonna record it and we're gonna no we've talked about this i think this that would be a redundant episode anyway i i know i've said that a couple of times on the podcast before. But anyway. Redundant is her favorite word. It's the word of the day. Or it's the word of the podcast. Is this Sesame Street now? Yes. Or Peabody's Playhouse.

Every time the word redundant is said, you have to cheer. Anyway, I think we've answered the question. We've obviously answered the question personally with our listener who asked that one about adoption and speaking to your child about them being adopted. I don't know. Do you have anything else to say from your perspective as an adoptee? No, I mean. Anything in the comments from your mom and dad about one last little nugget of information to share with our listeners? Well, just this one that dad dropped earlier that we were kind of mid-conversation.

But he said, you generate that positive image before the outside world can cast any negativity on being adopted. Which I think is what I was trying to say initially was that, like, no one could have convinced me, even as, like, a young child, you weren't wanted. You weren't loved. Because, like, I knew better. Yeah. against bullying and the world in general is, you know, that armor is them feeling secure and them feeling loved and them feeling secure in themselves. And like you build that child up so that no matter how nasty the world gets, they're prepared to deal with it.

And insofar as like the topic of adoption, just understand that, yeah, there are kids out there that are little a-holes. But if they come up knowing my parents love me, the person who gave me up for adoption loved me enough to carry me to term and let this family who's awesome adopt me. situation knowing all that they have at least you've at least like built a solid foundation that they're not going to come out the other side of that interaction feeling a certain way about being adopted right but the best thing that's everything we've talked about here is like that's the best i could tell this list our our listener our patrons specifically and just anybody in general is like yeah there's there's, there's a lot of emotions tied up in adopting and in being adopted. And some kids are going to want to try to track down their

biological families later. And if you are comfortable and confident in the fact that you've bonded with this child, I would ask that they not be threatened by that. Well within bounds to want to protect your child from these strangers that they're about to meet. Because I know that there was also a little bit of that with my parents when we went to meet my biological mother's side of the family was, we don't know these people. We don't know anything about them. And I want to make sure that my son, my son is safe. And I think that's well within balance. Just understand that like to your uncle's point, like he felt, he probably felt initially like if I go looking for him in a biological family, I'm replacing my parents. And I don't,

that was never my intention. I don't think that's most adoptees intention. You can't replace, I don't think that's most adoptees intention. You can't replace, you can't replace 40, 50, 60, or even just 20 or 30 years of a bond with a family with blood. Right. Blood might be thicker than water,

but nothing is thicker than the people who teach you how to be who you are. Right. So if we want to have a nature versus nurture conversation, like I'd have to invite Becca over here and that would be, boy, that'd be interesting. It'd be a fun show. All right, guys. Well, thank y'all for joining us today.

And yeah, that was a good show. Good show, oh boy. We hope you have a great rest of your weekend and your Sunday. Good luck with school year. It's here. Yes. Have a great rest of your weekend and your day, and we'll see you next week. Bye, everybody.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Thank you.