The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Raising Values: Gentle Parenting vs. Placating

Episode Date: January 14, 2024

https://www.facebook.com/RaisingValuesPodcast/https://linktr.ee/PBNLinkshttps://www.instagram.com/raisingvaluespodcast/http://www.mofpodcast.com/www.prepperbroadcasting.comhttps://rumble.com/user/Mofpodcastwww.youtube.com/user/philrabSupport the showMerch at: https://southerngalscrafts.myshopify.com/Shop at Amazon: http://amzn.to/2ora9riPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/mofpodcastA little side conversation among the patrons spurred some talk about where the line is between “Gentle Parenting” and “Placating Parenting”. Raising Values Podcast is live-streaming our podcast on YouTube channel, Facebook page, and Rumble. See the links above, join in the live chat, and see the faces behind the voices.family, traditional, values, christian, marriage, dating, relationship, children, growing up, peace, wisdom, self improvement, masculinity, feminity, masculine, feminine

Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values Podcast through Patreon. Bill and Gillian are behind the mic, and we hope you enjoy the show. welcome back to raising values good morning i'm here on time today i wasn't gonna say anything yeah she's been sitting here for almost 10 minutes yeah that was the big hubbub last week. I don't know if anybody who was watching live noticed it. I was fixing my shirt because my shirt was on backwards. Last week was just not a, it wasn't a good week.

Well, no, no, no, no. Last episode just wasn't straight. Are you recording? Yes. Because you weren't recording last week either. No. Because I was staring down the hallway like what is she doing well good morning and welcome to raising values um it is my last sunday before i go back to work sad unlike the rest of the world but i only have five weeks and then we're off for a week for marty

crawl i don't feel bad for you i mean no bad for me either i just just saying like i'm i'm it's hard to feel bad for a person that's been reading books for the last what three weeks? Two and a half. Two and some days. Yeah. Hey, that's why I went into this profession. I'm not mad at you about it. I'm just saying, like, oh, guys, I have to go back to work. It's like, yes. Yes, you do.

Yes, I do. Anyway, so Phil picked the topic this morning. Technically, I didn't pick the topic. Our patrons. picked the topic this morning i um technically i didn't pick the topic our patrons well i was about to say like i yesterday i um was kind of out of it with every everything because i was with my sister-in-law most of the day and you had come to me last night last yesterday evening you're like you still don't have a topic for tomorrow and And I was like, I know. It's like I'm struggling, y'all, on topics. So if you've got ideas for topics, please send them in.

Because my brain is going, no, we've talked about that. No, we've talked about that. Yeah, we've talked about that too. Anyway, so there was obviously a, I wouldn't say heated debate. Would you say heated debate? Between you and me? No, on the chat. No, I wouldn't say it was a heated debate.

So we have this signal chat, which is like, I think one patron that's kind of identified that it may have been Raising Values that brought him to that. And then the rest are all. Really? I get the impression. Well, it wasn't until we did Raising Values that he jumped on board. So I'm having to assume. Oh, okay. But it's mostly the patrons from Raising Values and Matter of Facts.

And somehow we got into this conversation yesterday about, like, gentle parenting and play-caming parenting. And this all kind of got spawned by something that somebody saw on Instagram or TikTok where a woman was half-jokingly referring to her two-year-old as a terrorist. And she was describing what led up to this child being sequestered away to their bedroom. And the short version of this is a mom brought a two-year-old child out to lunch with her friends, brought snacks and brought an ipad to try to in

my opinion bribe the child for good behavior and a child had a meltdown as two-year-olds do and you know this this was the impetus for the discussion we started having about different parenting styles and there are a lot of different parenting styles. And I think that most of them work. Most of them work okay if they're applied correctly and none of them work well if not applied correctly. Right. So I thought that'd be a good topic for discussion today because like, you know, you and I kind of have this base principle where like, we might comment to each other about other people's parenting style, but I'm not going to go tell somebody else how to raise their kids. No, I think families have to do what works for them.

And then hopefully those parents have outweighed the consequences of actions on how to raise their kids. And I also would love to start this by saying we are not perfect parents. I am. Second episode in a row where I'm about to sell him. No, we're not perfect parents. And the way that we raise our kid is not, doesn't work for everyone. It doesn't work for every family or every child. I don't, I just don't see how, I don't want to judge how anybody raises their kid. I do think it is important to consider the consequences of gentle parenting and what you are, the failures that you're setting your child up for when they get older and the struggles that they're going to have.

And then, you know, it's Jordan Peterson said, raise children, raise your kids. Raise children you want to be around. That you want to be around. And I think you have to consider that as well for other people. You have to consider that for their teachers. Do their teachers want to be around them do they get do they do they sigh and um like what exp exasperate what's exasperation exasperation when that child walks through the door like another day of dealing with this child well and i mean i mean, I see it. You know, when you see a parent's face glaze over

and they just want that kid to just like shut up and stare at a screen or shut up and go to the room or shut up and go play with their Xbox, PlayStation, whatever, just shut up and leave me alone. Yeah. It's like you, in my opinion, like I understand like, and again, somebody out there is going to throw up the excuse of like, well, every parent has a breaking point, mental health, and yada, yada, yada. I get all that. But I'm also going to challenge most of the parents doing that to say your child's probably exhibiting a personality trait that you could have taken time to train out of them. And that if they're annoying you by their very presence,

they're probably annoying everybody else too. So then my question is, how much credit do you take for allowing that child to behave that way? Or how much do you try to push off on some ancillary source so that you don't have to admit you had to hand it? Like, I guess my principle when it comes to parenting

always comes back to this idea that, you know, to me, children are, they're born an empty vessel. There's nothing in them. They have no habits. They have nothing in them but biological. I'm talking about when they're born. They have nothing in them but biological drivers. I'm hungry. I'm cold.

I'm uncomfortable. I scream until I get what I want. That's it. And most children progress beyond that stage, but very obviously by looking at the world and some of these 10, 12, 16, 18 year olds, some never did progress beyond the scream until I get what I want stage. But my point is that it's up to the parents to teach them proper behavior, to teach them societal norms, to teach them proper behavior to teach them societal norms to teach them how to interact with other people in such a way that their very presence on this earth is not aggravating everybody around them and that might sound

like a very selfish like you just want your child to behave a certain way to not aggravate you and i'm like but it's more than that because of this child if my child doesn't have the ability to interface with other people to get what she wants i'm setting her up for total failure as an adult. Because you and I don't live in a vacuum. We have to deal with coworkers and bosses and spouses. That's true. Friends. And, yeah, I mean, you have to deal with all sorts of people throughout your life that, you know, has the potential to upset you. I mean, it just,

it really just depends on, I guess, the, the level of that child's or a future adult ability to deal with stress and things like that. And I think that that is a lot of what we see in kids today is they want something, they're stressed out about it, they want the, I don't know, I'm so like torn on this conversation. I know you are. Very, very torn on this conversation.

Because, yes, I do agree with you that for the majority, children are born with just that whole, I need to eat, I need to sleep, I need to poop, I need to eat, I need to sleep, I need to poop. That is all they are doing. Although they are learning, however, they are learning. Oh, they are 100% learning. Even in that stage of their life. Then you have children who do need that extra attention, Then you have children who do need that extra attention, that need that extra stimulation or not having that stimulation. Or, you know, there's children that learn differently, behave at a social norm kind of way you know like straight line whatever no i see where you're going um because that's that's one that's one reason why i'm trying to like tiptoe around

this conversation is i know children who need that extra bit of coddling and gentleness and you know they need that little extra bit of attention from their from their parents and teachers and people in their little community. But then you have children like our children, our child. You only have one. Our child. And then you have, you know, most of her friends, the people that she goes to school with. And I'm not talking about those kids.

But, you know, in the majority of her life, she's dealing with children who are on the same learning. Kind of the same bell curve. Yeah, they're in the same part of the bell curve. Thank you, because I was not getting there in my head. So either we're going to talk about those kids or we're going to exclude the children who need that extra bit of. I'm going to talk about both, but you and I might disagree. Okay.

Oh, and that's the whole point of today's conversation. Because like, see, here's the thing. Whenever we're talking about children with like a learning, I don't like to say disability because I don't believe in... They learn different. I don't believe... I like to call them learning difficulties. No, I wouldn't even say difficulties.

I would say different. They learn differently. You can call it what you want. But my point is I don't call it a disability because disability infers it cannot be done, and I don't believe that. So my point of view when we're talking about the extreme outliers on the ends of the bell curve and not the meat and potatoes in the middle is, you still have an obligation as a parent to try to teach that child. If they require different or they require more care or more time, then the obligation is on you as a parent to give them that additional time to teach them. So that's why I say I don't want to exclude them because they're still children.

They still need to learn to function in the adult world. I didn't want, I didn't say let's exclude them from the conversation because I think they should be excluded that, you know, now you're, now you're making me rethink my, my words.

What? Well, I'm, I'm just saying like, to me, I don't, I don't make those distinctions. I,

I make the distinction of like, there are some base principles that apply all the way across this population from one side to the other. And the particulars of how you apply them might have to change based on your child. Like, I've noticed with my child that, like, and we made this assertion when she was very young that it was attention that was her driver. Like if she got, if she was like putting her in the corner was like, that was like hard time, hard. She brought that up with you the other day. Oh yeah. She hated getting three or four. She hated getting put in the corner because she was separated from the two of us. Even though I was right here watching her, she was never far away from me, but she was separated from us she didn't have our attention she didn't have the ability to interact with us and that impacted her and my father has made the assertion

over the years that like for me i i like computers were a big thing with me from a very young age so whenever i did something that displeased him my computer got taken my the little personal computer that i had got taken away from me and And that got immediate results out of me. So I guess to my point is, you have to find what works for your child, what incentivizes them, what disincentivizes them. You have to figure out how they learn, how they react. And then whatever that method is, you would just apply it. But to me, I see a lot of the, I see the line between gentle parenting and placating parenting. I don't think there's anything wrong with gentle parenting. What is your definition of the two?

Okay, so to me, gentle parenting is kind of like the way I've always tried to apply discipline with Piper. I'm going to do this as in the most kind, the most gentle, the quietest way humanly possible. Like if we're in the grocery store and she's three years old, grabbing stuff off shelves, I'm going to tap her on the shoulder and be like, honey, please don't do that. The second time is going to be like, honey, put that back and stop or something's going to happen. And third time, she's going to get smacked on the butt. Some parents would go straight to step one, just whack her on the butt as soon as she does something wrong. And I don't believe that. I believe that there should be some kind of like progressive buildup in disciplinary action.

Well, and at that point, you're giving her the freedom to make that decision. Exactly. And showing her that make that decision. Exactly. And showing her that decisions have consequences. Exactly. But placating parenting would say, gentle parenting would say, I'm going to slowly turn up the volume until you get the message. Placated parenting would be like, I'll get you a sucker if you stop doing that. Okay. And I don't believe in bribing for good behavior. Good behavior is not something that should necessarily be rewarded all

the time. Good behavior is the standard. But once you set this in place to say, I'll give you something if you do what I want every single time, then the first time you stop giving them what they want, the good behavior ceases. So now you've set them up on a path where they're going to act out every time. Well, now there's an expectation. Now there's a, you know, if I do this or if I don't do this, then mom and dad or mom or dad, they're going to answer with this, you know? Yeah. Okay.

So let me. And then they come to expect it. And then they throw the fit when they don't get it. And then the manipulation start. I mean, I see it all the time. The manipulation starts and then they're, you know, faking or, you know, whatever to get that, that reward again. Yeah.

Now don't get me wrong. I do think you should reward children for going above and beyond for excellence, but I don't, I don't necessarily agree with rewarding them for a basic, like a basic expectation. Like doing their homework. Yeah. Cleaning their room. Exactly. Just washing their dishes.

Well, but every time Piper is ever brought up getting an allowance, that's been the first thing I've always brought up is, I'm not going to pay you for doing things you should be doing around the house. Like the other day, I was folding laundry. I was tossing her stuff to fold. She's 11 years old. She can help with the laundry. Right, right.

She's 11 years old. She can do her own dishes, which she does. But my point is always, if you want allowance, do something that provides value to the house, that takes something away from me and mom so we have time to go do something else. If she wanted to sweep the floors, because you don't like sweeping the floors, I would pay her a pittance of money to sweep the floors because what I'm trying to do is, again, you have to, you know this, but like the audience has to remember that like my whole thing about parenting is like, what am I trying to, it's a very strategic,

long focus. What am I trying to teach my child? When she goes out into that world, she has to understand that in order to get people to give her money to buy stuff, she has to provide value to the world around her. And just because you're a precious special snowflake doesn't count. No one cares. Yeah. So she's not going to get money for cleaning her room. Cleaning her room is expected. But if she does something for somebody else, then that might be worth something to that person.

But again, I'm getting on this off track. The point here is like placating parenting jumps the shark and gets into that realm of you are bribing for good behavior. You are failing to hold that child to a standard of behavior just because it's expected. You're not teaching them that if you do what you're supposed to do, you get cash and prizes. And if you don't, then there's no consequences for it. Because the consequence is what? And especially because most parents, like, how many times have we said this whole thing of like, well, if we just send Piper to her room, she's just going to watch YouTube on her whatever.

She's going to play with her whatever. You know, it's like when we would ground Piper, which didn't happen super often. I mean, we would unplug her TV. We'd take her. We'd take everything that runs on electrons out of her room. She would have books and a bed and the ceiling to stare at because but then even i mean the thing with our kid is sure you can take away all the electronics and yeah that'll be a big blow to her but then this is where i always struggled because she did have books and that was like awesome. So we're trying to give her a punishment for whatever action that she did.

And so we've taken away all the fun electronics, but then she still has all the fun books. And then in my brain I'm going, but they're books. But here's the thing of it. Every time we did that, her behavior changed. So we didn't have to go to the next step, which would have been take the books. I think there was one time we did that her behavior changed so we didn't have to go to the next step which would have been take the books so like i guess there was one time we did i think there was one time where she she was told to just sit in her room she could sit on her bed and she could do nothing she couldn't look at books she couldn't watch tv she couldn't do anything yeah but this

goes back to what i'd said earlier about turn up the volume until they hear the message. It's like, I'm going to start at level one in parenting, in disciplinary action. And if this sounds like human resource to speak, it kind of is, but there's a reason it works most of the time. And I'm going to turn that dial up until something really unfortunate happens or until you realize you don't want to go to the next step. And with our child, she's usually chooses, I don't want to go to the next step. But this was an earthy and came up in the group chat was when the, when the goalpost moves, because I'm sure you've seen this where when parents are in a good, happy mood, the goalpost is way over here. And then when the parents, the parents, you know, having a bad day, the goalpost is all of a sudden way over here. And it's not so much a, like, I'm not talking about, like, parents a little grumpy, but I'm talking about the literal standard for what is and is not allowed changes all of a sudden. Like, the kid can play outside, the kid can't play outside.

The kid can watch TV, the kid can't watch TV. The kid can go to their friend's house, can't go to their friend's house. Like major binary changes in what the child is and is not allowed to do and what the child does and doesn't get in trouble for. And once that starts, I mean, this isn't necessarily like gentle parenting, placated parenting, but this is consistent parenting. This is consistent discipline. Because once you lose that and that child never knows where the line is, you've created a situation where the child can never, they have two options at this point. Option A is I do nothing, so I don't do anything wrong. Or I constantly push the limit to see where the limit is today.

And neither is good for the child. Yeah, I see it. I, you know, like I said at the very beginning was, you know, we're not perfect parents and I'm certainly not a perfect mother. And so everyone's goalpost is going to change. Dependent, well, maybe not yours. No, everyone's goalpost is going to change. But I feel like you and i always made an effort to make it consistent whereas i see a lot of other parents if they're

making an effort it's not a good one yeah i think as a as parents we've you we've done a very good job there are there have been times in my classroom where it's been like, you know, 15 kids in there and there's, you know, a bunch of stuff going on or whatever. And so the goalpost does change sometimes. Like, and what I'm, what I'm talking about mostly is we have, we have technology at our school, obviously. So our kids have Chromebooks. And so a lot of times we'll be doing something on our Chromebooks and, you know, they're just begging, begging, begging, Ms. Ravely, can we please play this? Can we please do that? Can we do this software? Whatever. And at the beginning of the year, it was no. So, okay, another example. I'm done, now what? So I have a sign in my room,

I'm done with my assignment, now what can I do? And I have a list of things. And on that list, nowhere on that list, actually, does it say you can free play on your Chromebook. There's been one or two times this year, in fact, it has nothing on there about Chromebooks. You cannot, there's no Chromebooks. You can't open your Chromebook once you're done. You can research, you can try to stump me. You can find a fact and ask me questions, you know, fun things like that. Well, I think they're fun. They don't find them very fun, but you're not going to get on and play scratch and you know, all that stuff. But there's been a couple of times where either I have felt really, really bad that day, like physically did not feel good, or, you know, the lesson had ended sooner than I had anticipated or whatever, where

I've said, okay, yes, you can get on your Chromebook, but you can only do these sites. You can only go to these sites kind of thing. So I think it's important to, you know, recognize that everyone's goalpost is going to change. Our goalposts change, changes with Piper as she grows up. And that's important too, you know, um, those consequences change, everything changes as they evolve. So everything is evolving. Um, I think it's best to make sure that those fundamentals and the basics are laid out early, early, early. Like Piper still knows that Piper still asks if she can do things that it's like sometimes now I look at her and like, yes, you can do that. And she's still asking. And it's like, I love that you think that you still need to ask permission for that.

But now you don't. You know, like, you can go make lunch. Like, you don't have to look at me and be like, Mom, I'm hungry. Do you mind if I go make a sandwich? And it's like, go make a sandwich. You know how to make a sandwich. Which is weird to me because usually my response is, get up, come to the kitchen, and make a sandwich. Which is weird to me because usually my response is get up, come to the kitchen and make a sandwich. I mean, it's not all the time where she's like, can I go make a sandwich or can I go get the chips or can I go do this or that?

But it's those times and it's not just making food or whatever, but it's those times where I'm just like, I guess she doesn't understand that she's now past that level that she, that she doesn't, that age or whatever, that expectation where she can control that part of herself. But I was going to say, part of this might also be the fact that I have been on her in the past about snacking between meals. Well, okay. Food was obviously a bad example because there has been other things that she's asked. And I can't think of what it was the other day where she was like, can I do this or something?

And I just kind of thought for a second, just a second. I was like, why is she asking if she can do that? Like, why is she asking permission? And so I kind of looked at her like, yeah, like, I don't know. But it is something that she's always asked for. And I can't think of what it was now. But anyway, her goalposts have changed. And I think it's very sweet that she still thinks that she's got to ask permission for some things.

It's my refrigerator. Keep out of it. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Anyway. I do want to loop back around and show he said that disability difficulty and differently are all different things which i kind of feel like we thought we said you know like to

again i don't like i don't like the word disability i don't i don't like the word because to me disabled means cannot do and i like okay you are probably not going to run the 100 meter dash if you are a below the waist paraplegic but like I've known people in my life that quote-unquote are disabled like one that I grew up with and I mean he used to go fishing he used to go fishing in the boat with friends he used to work on cars this this guy, I'll tell you who it is after the show. I know who you're talking about. He never let a severe physical

disability slow him down much. He pushed himself much further than a lot of people in his situation would have. I don't know. I don't like the word disability. Especially coming from the military community. I've seen way too many combat vets missing limbs who go on to like become bodybuilders or compete in special Olympics, do amazing things, missing a limb. I don't like the

word disability. I do like the word difficulty because to me, something is making this task more difficult, but that just means like the parent works harder, the child has to work harder to overcome it. See, I disagree. I do think that there is a disability. I do think that there are children and there are adults who do have physical, mental disabilities that they can't unless there is someone else doing it for them. They cannot feed themselves. They cannot go to the bathroom.

But would you admit that there are many things society might call a disability that me and possibly you would not resign to the level of being a disability? In other words, there are people in the world that think that all sorts of things are full-blown disabilities that I just say suck it up and get over yourself. I do. I agree that that – yes. I do agree that the word disability is used for things that are not necessarily – Not necessarily should be considered a disability. However, you can't discount people and children who have real disabilities. Like they are not able to do those things.

They are not able to go to the bathroom, brush their teeth, you know. I understand. But again, you're defending a very, very small group of people who have a legitimate disability. I am saying that if a person has dyslexia, for example, that's not a disability to me. It is something that's going to require a different way of learning. It's going to require a lot more work on the part of that child to learn. But I mismatched my letters cannot be the reason why that child just has to coast through life and never try to succeed because. Agreed. Okay. But what I'm saying is there are people who will cling to that and say that's a disability. And I say it's not a disability. That child's not disabled.

The child is going to have a hell of a time overcoming that. But that just means you've got to work harder at it. The child's got to work harder. The teachers have got to work harder. Like the child's got to work hard the teachers have got to work harder like i said they'd learn differently okay but see joe says disability is like dyslexia for learning again uh to me disabled means complete wholly incapable okay so if we're talking about if we're talking about if we're talking about somebody that's had like traumatic brain injury and the wires are not connected any longer, okay, you have earned the disability tab. But I'm going to say that as long as that child has any kind of a fighting chance at having a productive life where they're able to care for themselves, I don't call them disabled.

I say that child has some challenges ahead of them. But I just, I resist this term disabled because to me, disabled means you give up, you quit, you can't overcome this. And I, that's not a message I ever want to give to anybody. Oh, you're broken. It's okay. You can do nothing for the rest of your life. It's like, again, it could just be totally come from the veteran community,

where in our community, it doesn't matter what happened to you, you push forward no matter what. And I get that. I do. I also think that in the veteran community or in the military community, you already have to prove that you are physically capable of doing the things in basic training. are physically capable of doing the things in basic training. So they're not going to look at someone who's applied to be in the army that has to be in a wheelchair. I hear you, but consider also beyond just physically to mentally, emotionally, like there's a lot.

But don't you go through those, those tests as well? Don't, aren't you? Not really. Not at all? You didn't do the ASVAB or anything like that? Oh, the ASVAB is an intellectual test.

But honestly, hold up. Your parents could be first cousins and you still pass the ASVAB. That's not a high bar. Okay, but who cares about that? I mean, you're still being tested on your intellectual level, aren't you? Yes. Okay. Okay, but I'm also lumping in things like post-traumatic stress disorder, which there is no test for.

There is no way to prevent. And yet there are people who come back from war afflicted with this, and some of them disintegrate because they just never get that message of, let's help you put yourself back together and get your life back on track. They get told, you're disabled, you're messed up. And then that's the excuse for continuing to mess their lives up. Right. And I get that. I understand what you're doing. You are taking the literal definition of

these words and that's how you're applying it. And I get that. And I think it's fair. I do. Isn't that so me though? Yeah, it's so you. But what I'm saying is, yes, society has used these words as interchangeably, these words as interchangeably disability, disabled, differently, difficulty, things like that. And I, I don't know. I don't know what I'm trying to say. You've got me all flustered.

What? I'm catching up on Joe said disabled and disability are different. I still don't like the word. I think that's what you're hung up on is the word. I don't like the connotation of the word. Yes. And I get that. And how it's used in society today is disability is just blanket cover for everything.

You're disabled for this. You're disabled for this. You're disabled for that. Technically, I have a disability as far as the government is concerned or whatever you want to call it, because I have that handicap license. I have a disability. Can I walk? Yeah. Can I skip? No. Not today. Not today. Not after that four mile hike hike yesterday. But, you know, am I in the eyes of the doctors and the people who gave me that handicap license? Am I disabled? Yeah, I am. But I'm not. I can still do most things.

Like, don't ask me to run up a flight of stairs. That's not going to happen. But I can walk up a flight of stairs. So to use that as my analogy, though. Okay, use me. If you present to me a child who has had their foot reattached haphazardly, there's one school of thought out there that would say, that child is disabled.

We're never going to expect them to be able to walk, to take care of themselves, do any of these things because they have the label. And then there's me that says, what can you do? Can you walk? Can you stand? Can we work on this? Is there a path forward towards you being able to take care of yourself? And we're talking about a physical disability and the difference between being disabled and having a documented disability, so to say, but put that in mental, emotional terms, too.

I'm going to say that if there's a person out there that has a severe learning disability, my perspective is not, you're normal, get over it, go off and do great things. It is, how much normal can you manage? How far can we get you down this track to take care of yourself, to have a productive life? It's the same conversation we always had about Piper. Her goalpost is here. Our job is to raise an adult, not a child. She's a child today. She's not as much of a child as she used to be because she comes up to here on me, but she's a child today. She's not going to be a child tomorrow. This is her goalpost is to be an adult. Well, that child's goalpost is to be able to take care of themselves. And if that learning disability is so severe,

they never will be able to live by themselves, take care of themselves. The goal is still to get them as close to it as possible, give them as much self-actualization as possible. So I look at these things in that same vein. I don't like the idea that we move the goalpost because this child has a learning disability or difficulty or learns differently. The goalpost is still over here. We're just going to get you as close to it as possible. And I believe that if more people took that perspective, we would have more children get to the goalpost rather than move the goalpost to them to excuse. I do like that. Yeah, it was like something clicked in my head as soon as you said that.

And I do agree with that. I do think that the goalpost needs to stay the same. And then we move that child as close to the goalpost as we can get them. I do agree with that. I do think that the goalpost needs to stay the same. And then we move that child as close to the goalpost as we can get them. I do agree with that. And if moving that child takes 10 times the effort it would a quote unquote normal child or a center bell curve child, then so be it. That takes 10 times the effort. It's 10 times the effort on behalf of the teachers, the parents, the child themselves, but it still gets done. Mm-hmm. I don't know how we got way over here from... of the teachers, the parents, the child themselves, but it still gets done. I don't know how we got way over here from, oh, I think it was, how did we get way over here from gentle parenting and placating parenting?

Oh, it was talking about moving the goalpost. Yeah. Okay. Okay. I feel like I got myself way off topic. That's okay i think i think it was good because i i do feel like we've kind of talked about gentle parenting before on the podcast and so the the fact that now we're debating difficulty differently and disabled or whatever is it's good

but we're also but we're more than just debating the words, though. We're debating, like, parenting philosophy. Maybe even, like, life philosophy or just our worldview. But, like, again, I come from a world where the standard is the standard. You don't lower the standard. If you can't do the job, get out of the seat. Like, I come from that world. And I come from a world where, like, we in the veteran community, we push each other mercilessly hard. And we don't cut each other a lot of slack.

And we don't accept a lot of excuses from each other. It is suck it up, quit your crying, have a beer and get over yourself, and let's go get back to work. Like we got stuff to do. And, yeah, a lot of that comes from combat when there is no time to sit in the sand and cry like you got to suck it up and we got to get this done but even when we come back from a conflict even when it's peace time like there is a lot of that built-in incentive of like you're having a bad day let's go do something productive so we can feel better about it you know it's i don't know it is a very different culture and And I, it reminds me

of when you and I first started talking about having children together, you said you did not want to raise them in a bootcamp. And yet I feel like I've somehow managed to like slip a little bit of bootcamp underneath the door. Yeah, you have. But I think it's important. I think kids need that structure and they need to know what your expectations are of them and not moving that goalpost because expectations equal goalpost, don't you think? Sorry, say it again. I was reading comments. Oh, I said expectation. Your expectations for your child equals your goalpost. 100%. Expectations for your child equals your goalpost. A hundred percent. Okay. So I do think it's important to parent consistently. Absolutely.

You have to parent consistently. You can't change it up. And even like I'm thinking of a couple of people in our lives that the home is broken. So mom and dad aren't together anymore or whatever. And then there is no consistency. And so the child doesn't know what to expect. And they get one treatment different from mom, one treatment different from dad, one treatment different from grandma. And everything is, that child is just constantly

living in a state of, well, I think two things. What can I get if I act this way? And then what is mom expecting of me? What is the behavior that's okay in this house? What's the behavior that's okay in this house? And so they're, yeah, living in a world of chaos because they never know what's expected of them. And they get in trouble for things that they wouldn't get in trouble for in the other house, or they're given something or, you know, like a prize or something for a behavior in one house, and then they're not getting it in the other house. You know, it's just, I don't know. And I don't, I cannot speak from experience on what it's like to co-parent with an ex or whatever. I do wish for those people that they were able to

come together and co-parent together and then get everyone involved in that child's life to say, you know, this is not an expectation because this is what your mom and dad have laid out. That was one thing about your mom and dad when we had Piper. We were very upfront with your parents and my parents and said, this is how we're doing it. These are our expectations. These are the things that we're laying out. And your mom and dad have been so, I mean, even today, they have just been so respectful of those things. You know, when Piper would spend the night, she'd go to bed when Piper was supposed to go to bed. You know, Piper would eat what she's supposed to eat.

Now, they do throw in grandparent things, which is expected and, you know, obviously fine. But they respected our decisions on how we were raising our child. And when Piper went over there, she knew, I'm not going to get away with crap because grandpa's going to do this or grandpa's going to say, well, your mom and dad or whatever. It's going to be the same thing when she goes to her grandparents' house because that's just what your parents did. Well, wait, I'm sorry. So I know that it can be done. 100%. Two things.

First of all, that comes directly from personal experience of sending their children to other people's houses and those children getting away with murder and then coming home being little turds for lack of better so like that's that is direct personal experience and them saying i am not going to do to my child that yeah and have them have you know have my grandchild get their butt tore up when they go home but the other thing i was going to say was you talked about not being able to speak about co-parenting from experience. That's what we do. I know we co-parent.

But hear me out. What is the difference between you and I having to meet in the middle between at least what used to be two vastly different parenting styles and two parents that don't live in the same household that either should or refuse to meet in the middle. Because there's a couple of things. There's usually going to be some sort of hatred for that other person. Which shouldn't. Well, which shouldn't.

I know. I get that. But it's there. I get that, but it's there. And so one person, one parent might do or say something totally opposite of the other parent just to get back at that parent, that other parent. Yeah. And then there's the distance thing. Like I, I can pull you into that bedroom and say, what the hell were you thinking? They talk to next time. That may not be an option for one of those parents. It may not be a quick, hey, this is what's come up. How do you want to handle this together? Whatever. And two, I think there's just from what I can see from the outside, from

friends and family members who live this life, this spitefulness because they don't like each other. And they can't seem to rise above the whole, my child is the most important aspect of this. And this is what I'm teaching my child is that it's okay to do those things. It's okay to treat people like this. It's okay to treat your spouse or your ex like this. And their vanity and selfishness comes before how they're going to raise that child. And that's what I keep seeing. and that's what I keep seeing. And that's so sad because it's the kid who takes the brunt of it.

It's the kid who wanders around not knowing what an expectation is or is this ball in the middle, this play thing that's just being used to torment the other person. And God, how awful for your child. I guess where I was going with that was everything you just described there's nothing that stops me from doing the same thing to you with us living together like if if when you're on the hike hike yesterday i let piper so i suddenly start encouraging piper do stuff you wouldn't let her do and then as soon as you get home she's doing stuff she's not supposed to,

and you start jumping her butt. And then in front of her, I start undercutting. You say, well, I told her she could do that. That's true. And now what I'm describing is an extraordinarily toxic environment that you and I wouldn't do to each other out of mutual respect, but also because I value my child's sanity more than that. But I've seen parents that operate like that even living in the same house

even married to each other so i guess i guess that's why i was saying like well then it's no different than than co-parenting outside of the house and it's absolutely no different and in some way it could possibly be even more toxic because now they're now they're in the middle of the argument and they're in the middle of the fight and they're, you know. So I guess where I was going with that is like you, to some degree, and some might disagree, I feel like you and I, I mean, we do co-parent. Yeah, we do. We do, but we have had to meet in the middle on things. We have had to have discussions and be like where do we draw a line and there have been times in the last 11 years you and i have like fundamentally disagreed about what the right path forward

was for her but i feel like the reason why we always try to find middle ground was because we had the same goal of it's what's best for her it's not what i want it's not what you want it's not what makes us look the best i mean like it like it is, it has always been a mutual decision made based on what do we feel like the best thing is in Piper's interest so that we can get her to that eventual goalpost of being a functional adult. And I feel like that's where, I feel like that really is the failing point for a lot of this. Like, I feel like when you placate parent, you're really just trying to get behavior so that it can, so that on the face of this situation, it looks from the outside, like I have an angel for a child and they do everything they're supposed

to, but you're not driving them towards the goal because you're not teaching them anything productive. So I feel like to me, like that, that kind of starts to tie this whole thing together with a bow is my goal is always teach Piper. I'm sure the audience is sick and tired of me hearing me say that, but we are her first and last teachers. Before she ever went to school and long after she's left this house, I hope, we will still have things to teach her. You will always have things to teach her about how to be a woman, how to be a wife, how to be a mother, how to be a friend. You will always have things to

teach her. And I hope I always have things to teach her. But I feel like there are far too many parents that they lose sight of that. They lose sight of their child's interest coming above and beyond everything else. And they get into these behaviors like placating or moving the goalposts to make things easier. Or they fall into the selfishness of, I want to use this child to make me look better or to get back at that person. And if any of that sounds incredibly toxic, it is incredibly toxic. But I'm giving examples that I've seen with my own two eyes. Those are the kinds of things that frustrate me,

and those are the kinds of things that when I see them as a parent, it twists my stomach. It enrages me to see a child mistreated badly. But anyway. Anyway. But as far as gentle parenting, like I don't, some might disagree. I don't see any problem with gentle parenting. I don't see any, I don't see a problem with trying to use the least amount of coercion, force, or whatever else to get the child to make what I think is the right decision.

I don't see any problem with when she's running a fever and having a bad day, be like, don't clean your room. Don't brush your teeth today. Just sit down and take it easy. Let them have a mulligan. I don't see any problem with giving a child grace when they're misbehaving, but it's because they're up two hours past their bedtime. I get pretty grumpy when I'm up two hours past my bedtime. But I do think that the difference between gentle parenting and placating parenting is ultimately that, that the goalpost doesn't move and you don't get cash and prizes for a basic level of behavior you should be exhibiting regardless. for a basic level of behavior you should be exhibiting regardless. Yeah. And when you said something about staying up past your bedtime or whatever,

the other thing that we've done with Piper is we've allowed her, which sometimes it's really hard as a parent to do, we have to allow her to go through those consequences. You stayed up two hours past your bedtime. You're really grumpy and crabby today and very tired. That's too bad. You're going to school. Like, you know, kind of thing. Not that she pulls that on us or whatever, but you know, I think a placating parent would probably say, okay, babe, well, why don't you sleep in for another two hours and get your rest? And, you know, I'll take you to school at lunch, and you can just do a half a day today kind of thing. And we've never done that with her.

There have been times where she's woken up where she doesn't feel her best. And so we go back and forth on should she miss school today? What do you think? Should she just stay home kind of thing? But I know parents that are just like, oh, okay, baby. All right, little Johnny, you don't feel good today or you're super tired. Okay, well, why don't you just sleep in a little bit more? The things that you are supposed to do today are not that important.

So why don't you just stay in bed? And as they grow up, they're learning, oh, well then I can just stay up three hours past my bedtime and be super tired when I wake up. And then mom is going to let me stay home today because I'm tired. And then when they're like 25 years old and have a job and they call, they call in her boss three hours, they'd be like, yeah, dude, I was at a party last night. I just slept in a little bit. We're cool, bro. Yeah. Yeah. And that's always been something I don't want to impress upon Piper is that, well, you've, you know, I know I'm jumping around. There was at school a couple of weeks ago, there was some, there was a boy who got out of the car and he forgot to put on his

shoes. I think because car was in the garage and he just didn't, he forgot to put on his shoes. I think because car was in the garage and he just didn't, he forgot to put on his shoes. And I was so proud of mom because they were halfway, halfway to school. He's in fourth grade. And, um, he realized mom, I don't have my shoes on. And she said, tough, you're going to school. And they got into car line. I line i mean you know the car door opens or whatever the shoes weren't even in the car no he did not have shoes and he was going to be totally embarrassed and he he said i'll you know i'll just ride home with you you can come bring me back and she said absolutely not get out of my car and i looked at him i was like decisions have consequences bud you're going into this school without shoes on right now your mom's going to

turn around and go get shoes. You're not going home to get an extra bit of not being in school. Your mom has decided. And I was just like, yay, mom. Should we have allowed him in without shoes? Probably not. But it was one of those teaching moments of. That's it exactly.

Keep going. Teaching moment. It was a teaching moment of, you know, did you mean to leave your shoes at home? Probably not. Did you really just like mistakenly forget to put on your shoes? Most likely. Is it a horrible crime that you did this? No. But you're going to now understand what it means to make sure maybe you need to lay your shoes out at night. Maybe you need to make sure your uniform is laid out at night, you know. And then bravo to mom saying, get out of my car. You're not going home. I will bring you shoes. You know, I was like, yes,

close the door. Get out of here. He's fine. And then, you know, he goes in and he's embarrassed all of his friends are where are your shoes why aren't you wearing shoes how did you forget your shoes kind of thing and i told him later i was like i bet you will never forget your shoes again will you i bet you will never forget your shoes yeah but you said it yourself it was a teaching moment and like i think that is ultimately what we need what we need to concern ourselves with when we talk about different parenting styles is, what is my child learning from this interchange? Even those really scary, hard consequences that your child is going to go through, you still should not save them. You don't need to save them from the scary consequences. My sister's probably not going to care that I'm talking about this because she's been on the podcast before.

Everyone continued to save Phoebe. Everyone continued to save her when she was in her lowest part of her addiction. All she was learning was, Gillian will come to my rescue. Gillian will give me 60 more dollars. Mama will do this. Daddy will do this. It wasn't until she sat her ass in a jail cell with no communication. No one came to her aid. Was she safe? Absolutely. Was she being fed? Yep. Was she fine? Absolutely. She was miserable. She was miserable. And she was dealing with the consequences of her actions, which was more than not giving her $60 to fuel the drug addict in her. It was more than coming in and saying,

okay, well, let's move you to a better facility or whatever. It was her by herself learning that this action got me here. I don't like being here. I'm not going to do this action anymore. Now, that's a big case in what we're talking about as far as children go because, I mean, that's big grown up stuff, but I do know kids growing up that I was in sixth grade when two boys got arrested in the bathroom for doing drugs at the little Christian school that I went to, you know, I don't know what happened to, I know that, um, one of them is, you know, functioning adult now, I don't know where the other one is, but you know, it was,

I think it's important that even though your little mama heart or your little daddy heart wants to be like, it's okay, baby, I'll save you from this consequence. Just don't do it next time kind of thing. Well, they didn't learn anything by you saving them from their consequence. If Johnny wakes up and he's tired because he stayed up playing video games all night, but he has to go to school the next day because that is his job at whatever age he is. That is his job. Then send his ass to school and let him be tired and groggy and whatever, because he has to understand this is what that action did. It got you this consequence. Now you have to learn to deal with it. And I'm using

that as an example of being tired or whatever, but being tired as a consequence for the next day is so small and minute than what it will build to if you continue to save your child from the consequences. Tell me if this sounds familiar. Life is full of consequences, but as long as you're a child, I'm in charge of those consequences. Well, yeah, you've said that, but- But where else have you heard it? I don't know. Your dad? Yeah. Is that what you were going to say? Yes. Oh, Lord have mercy. Is my father-in-law watching?

He might be. He probably is. But if not, I mean- Do you know what your father-in-law watching? He might be. He probably is. But if not, I mean. Do you know what your father-in-law would say? But he would know where that comes from because that's straight out of his mouth. But I guess to your point, though, I feel like as parents, yes, we are in charge of our child's consequences. But there have to be consequences. Well, we're not in charge of all of their consequences. School is in charge of some consequences. Teachers are in charge of consequences. Well, we're not in charge of all of their consequences. School is in charge of some consequences. Teachers are in charge of consequences. And there are people in their

life that are in charge of consequences. And then if you, what I'm saying is, if you save your child from the small consequences that they do at two and three, four years old, that's just going to build. And when they're 10, 11, and 12, those consequences will get bigger and bigger. And then when they're 17, 18, 19, you're looking at possible jail time for things. It's just, I don't know. I just think that if you continue to go in and save your kid from being unhappy and scared or whatever, all you're doing is hurting them even more. Let them be scared. Let them be tired. Let them be uncomfortable and unhappy. Hell, when they become an adult, that's going to be most every day of their life is tired, unhappy, uncomfortable, and whatever.

You know, they're not always going to be happy. I just think it's setting up your child for failure. When they live in a world, a bubble of happiness all the time of a bubble of, well, mom will save me. Well, dad will save me. Well,

you know, I'm not going to have, I'm going to do this because I know that my parents are going to swoop in and save me. Piper likes to watch these videos sometimes where people are being arrested and stuff like that. Oh, Jesus. And I love the ones where the person is calling out for help from their mom or dad because they're being arrested for drug charges. I know, it sounds like, what are you letting your child watch? But it's kind of like cops kind of thing.

You remember the show cops? Anyway. I was watching about her age. I know, me too. But the one that sticks out to me the most is the girl who was driving drunk, who's being arrested and dad is standing right there and she's, dad, help me, help me, dad,

get me out of this. And he walks over to her and goes, shut your mouth. You're going to jail. You're making it worse. Be quiet and do what they say and i was just like yes yes how do you can you imagine how hard that was for him i can imagine it was hard but but to dig into that example just the tiniest little bit i see

a girl in her in her early 20s driving drunk in a tesla who was telling the cops my dad owns the island i am i am fairly certain there might have been some placating parenting happening in her childhood that led her to this moment in her life what was she was 19 or 20 years old because they kept saying well you're an adult because she said call my dad call my dad and they were like we're not calling your dad you're an adult you're an adult we're calling your dad but i guess what i'm saying is for dad to all of a sudden say you're going to jail shut up and deal with it to me is like perhaps if we had said shut up and deal with it earlier in her life we wouldn't have gotten to this point well yeah what i know i we don't know how old she was. I know she was young, like 19, 20, 21. She was what we as a 41 and 39-year-old would call a kid.

Yeah, but she's driving a Tesla. Yeah. You know what I'm saying? And so obviously there were things in her life that were given and placated. Daddy's money has patted her little butt pretty well through life so far. Yeah, well, Dad was like, shut up. You're going to jail. Too bad for you.

You shouldn't have done what you've done. Anyway. Anyway. I think we kind of derailed a little bit and that's okay, Joe, because I love how Joe's like, I'm the derail ninja. That's what we rely on you for Joe is to kind of get a soft face and,

and continue talking. But anyway, so. Yeah. So like I said, that episode, that was the start of that conversation amongst the patrons. And I figure we'd pick it up here because I know that I feel like you and I, after like 11 years of co-parenting, have pretty much come roughly to the middle. But I know that when we first started out, I was hyper disciplinary and you were hyper nurturer. And it took us some time to kind of like, it took both of us some time, I feel like, to realize that there was a happy mix of the two that wasn't going to completely screw our child up.

Yeah. And I'll be the first to admit, all discipline doesn't make for well-adjusted kids and all nurture absolutely doesn't make for well adjusted kids you need a mix of the two but it needs to be a mix of the two always with the ultimate goal of i'm trying to teach this child something and you know that's that's kind of where we're at but yeah i mean i i see examples of placating parenting in society around us all the time. I think there's, I think that a lot of parents, they're so terrified of being judged for having a badly behaved child that they take actions to elicit good behavior that ultimately breed more bad behavior. As opposed to like you and I, who are always very much like, she's two, she's having a moment, and one of us would usually walk her outside and calm her down.

And frankly, I mean, I can remember a couple times we told our waitress, I need boxes, I need a check, we got to go. Yeah. And I can also remember times like, you know, Piper got her little butt whooped up in the middle of a grocery store because she was acting crazy. I mean, it's just, it's always been a function of like, my goal is to make your behavior the way it's supposed to be.

And I'm not going to say I'll give you a sucker if you stop misbehaving. Because all you're learning from the exchange is if I misbehave, I get a sucker. Like it shouldn't work that way. But that's kids. Kids learn. I don't want to launch to a whole other discussion. But I'm going to tell you all that from my perspective, an infant, the first thing they learn in the world is how to get what they want.

They are biologically hardwired to continue testing the waters until they get what they want. They'll cry, they'll scream, they'll coo, they'll giggle. Whatever gets them hugged, held, warm, fed, and cleaned is what they're going to do. And I think that there's a certain amount of that biologically hardwared into us, even as older children and even as adults. So yeah, if you teach that child that every time they misbehave, they get a sucker for stopping the misbehavior, it just incentivizes the behavior. Good show, old man. Good show, old man.

Not bad for a spur of the moment, hey, we're going to talk about this tomorrow type of topic. Yeah, it was pretty good. I don't know if we really have any announcements today, although I think we should. Women Who Prep Conference? Well, yeah. I mean, the Women Who Prep Conference, I talked about this last week on the podcast. As far as the affiliate link goes, I'm working on getting that up on my Instagram and on the Facebook page for Raising Values. It is 20th through the 24th.

I think I need to go back and look at the dates of April. Um, but it's an online conference for Women Who Prep and the website is womenwhoprep.com. You can follow them on Instagram as well. And this prepared life by Allison is on Instagram as well. So all those links are on their website. And buy your tickets and you don't have to attend all four days, but it is online. So you can attend in your pajamas if you would like. That sounds like a plus. Yeah. So there's that. And then Prepper tickets, Prepper camp tickets just went up a

little bit. The hill is getting filled. I think it is filled. Best I'm aware, yeah, if anybody still wants to come to Prepper Camp, like best I'm aware, I think all of the powered and watered campsites are booked at this point. So you're either going to be in the unimproved extension of Tent City or you're going to have to look at the local Airbnbs

of which there are many. And then Asheville is like 35 minutes away which has hotels and everything. So, I mean, there are still opportunities to come to Prepper Camp. The ticket prices just went up, I think, five or six bucks a ticket for the adults. But they're going to continue to go up the closer to the event we get. So, if you're thinking about going, make those reservations right now. Yeah.

And if anybody is curious about Prepper Camp, has never been, and just curious about what there is to offer, check PrepperCamp.com and look at the 2023 class schedule. And typically what Rick does is about 75% to 80% of those classes will remain into the next year. And then he'll cycle out some classes in favor of new classes, try to keep things fresh. new classes, try to keep things fresh. But that will at least give you an idea of like the length and breadth of what Prepper Camp is and the amount of knowledge that's being passed to attendees. And you'll also get the opportunity to meet myself and Gillian and Andrew, my co-host on Matter of Facts, and the entire, as much of the Prepper Broadcast Network as we can

manage to bring out there. Last year, I think we were only short one host. Two. Two? Me and Dave. Oh, I meant other than you. Oh. Because I just. Because I'm not a host. You know what I mean. I knew it. Nobody includes Gillian. I hope you'll have a great day. I hope I have a great day, too. Happy Sunday. It's beautiful here. The weather's going to be horrible tomorrow. But anyway, enjoy the rest of your weekend. And we will see you next week.

Yes, next week we will see you. Not the next week, though. Okay. Why not next week? No, next week we'll see them. But the 21st, I don't know if we'll see them. Why wouldn't we? Because my birthday is on the 20th.

You don't want to hang out with our listeners on your birthday? I don't know if I will be able to function on that Sunday morning, dear. I'll bring the laptop to your bedside. Okay. Have a great day. Bye, y'all. Bye. Thank you.