The Prepper Broadcasting Network - Raising Values: Traditional Gender Roles in Parenting

Episode Date: December 3, 2023

https://www.facebook.com/RaisingValuesPodcast/https://linktr.ee/PBNLinkshttps://www.instagram.com/raisingvaluespodcast/http://www.mofpodcast.com/www.prepperbroadcasting.comhttps://rumble.com/user/Mofpodcastwww.youtube.com/user/philrabSupport the showMerch at: https://southerngalscrafts.myshopify.com/Shop at Amazon: http://amzn.to/2ora9riPatreon: https://www.patreon.com/mofpodcastPhil and Gillian sit down to tackle the topic of traditional gender roles in raising children, what each spouse typically contributes, and why this couple feels so strongly that just as it takes two to create a child, so it takes two to raise one. Raising Values Podcast is live-streaming our podcast on YouTube channel, Facebook page, and Rumble. See the links above, join in the live chat, and see the faces behind the voices.family, traditional, values, christian, marriage, dating, relationship, children, growing up, peace, wisdom, self improvement, masculinity, feminity, masculine, feminine

Welcome to the Raising Values Podcast, where the traditional family talks. You can find us on iTunes, Stitcher, and Spotify, and be sure to follow us on Facebook and Instagram. You can support the Raising Values Podcast through Patreon. Bill and Gillian are behind the mic, and we hope you enjoy the show. welcome back to raising values we are very discombobulated this morning i'm not oh the hell you're not you just hide it better than i do phil's discombobulated that's a really big word for such an early morning. Coffee. With coffee, all things are possible.

Of course. I think we're doing okay. I mean, no more discombobulated than we normally are in the morning. But we were out late last night. So give yourself some grace. So happy Thanksgiving to everybody for all of you celebrated it. And I hope y'all heard our Thanksgiving episode that we did. It was a joined effort, matter of facts, and raising values. So, you know, because we have to join forces when it comes to the two shows. Joe, a man after my own heart, he's already on pot number two.

That's impressive with coffee all things are possible i don't have i mean i have my mushroom coffee but it's not gonna be like your turbo charged coffee over there it's's not turbocharged. It's just, you know, my usual. He drinks like four or five of these cups a day. And it's not a cup. It's a, what is that thing? It's like 32 ounces. It's not 32 ounces. Okay, it's not 32 ounces. Maybe 28 ounces.

And I'll have you know I drink two of these a day. I do not believe that. Well, my normal load of coffee only fills this twice. How many pots do you make? Only one. Unless we're having company. I don't believe that. Okay.

I don't believe that. I mean, I'm the one doing all the roasting and grinding, so I know exactly how much coffee I go through on a weekly basis. Anyway, well, Wednesday we released an episode with Raising Values and Matter of Facts joined together. So it was just a little something because we tend to drop off the face of the earth on some weekends. And then I totally forget that we run a podcast and that I should announce to the audience that we're not at home to do anything. So obviously, while we were on our way home from our camping trip and I was like, shoot, I did not make a post about not recording this morning. And I just thought, well, you know, our listeners are so awesome.

And I just thought, well, you know, our listeners are so awesome. They just totally understand, I'm sure, that, you know, Gillian's a little off. And I didn't even, well, I take that back. We did say on the previous episode that we were going out of town and camping and we weren't sure what we were going to do. But we should have announced it. That's my fault. I'm very sorry. But Wednesday you got a little bit of an episode. It was an hour long.

I don't think we planned on it going that long. But if you haven't listened to it yet, obviously you can download the audio. There was no live. We just sat in Phil's office and recorded. And then, hi, here we're back. We are not camping this weekend. It is cold and rainy, and we're all we are not camping this weekend it is cold and rainy and we're all very tired it's for everyone i know it's been a crazy week um it's quite gross outside

today and it's yeah like i said cold and rainy but um so we're here although we did go to my sister's house in lafayette yesterday and we didn't get home until midnight and which meant we didn't get in bed until one so we're both a little tired and the little girl is still asleep in her nest of her room so good morning this is what you get but today we were going to sit down and talk about traditional gender roles in parenting which might not actually be the best title but it's the only thing i could think to put into words like what i was thinking about which was i personally believe that raising children requires a very delicate but a very definite balancing of discipline and nurturing.

Yes. And I, it has been my observation. And it's also been the result of like, you know, quite a bit of like research. And cause me, I studied a little bit of psychology in college as an elective. Cause I didn't, my personality is such that I don't understand people. Cause people make no sense to me. They do irrational things. So I tried to understand people because people make no sense to me. They do irrational things. So I tried to understand people intellectually, which didn't work either.

But it was fun to learn, at least. People intellectually. That's an oxymoron for a lot of most people. I'm an oxymoron. You are an oxymoron. but i've read enough psychological papers seen enough studies and it's my own observation that i believe that men and women on the bell curve tend to gravitate into one of those two roles more readily than the other but i don't believe that there is i don't believe it's realistic or rational to say that man and woman should exclusively

inhabit either of those roles. Like there's definitely times when, even though my default position is I'm the disciplinarian in the family, there are times when I'm very, there are times when I recognize like my daughter doesn't need discipline right now. She needs to be nurtured. And if you're busy or you're working or you're away from the house for some reason, that's my invitation to step into that role because that's what my child needs in that moment and vice versa. If she needs discipline because she's misbehaving and I'm not around, that's not one of those wait till your father gets home.

That's a no, I need to be the disciplinary because that's what my kid needs. father gets home, that's a no. I need to be the disciplinary because that's what my kid needs. It's like when the dog pees on the floor. You can't discipline them three hours later. Does not work. Because then they're not going to know exactly what happened. And we said this the other day. Oh, no, it wasn't about our kid, though. It was about somebody else. And it wasn't- Our kid doesn't pee on the floor. No, it's not what I was going for we were talking about

speaking to someone like nipping something in the bud because something was said and um i had asked if you had heard what this person had said and you said you didn't um you were glad i told you but it was already like a day or two after. It wasn't even a confrontation, but after the conversation had happened and you're like, I can't say anything now because time has passed so, so much. And I think you could with a kid, but I mean, with, with a person, a kid, not so much. I think a kid needs to know right then and there, okay, you've messed up and now we have to fix this. Now you have to learn that this is not acceptable or, or whatever. And then there might be consequences for that action.

But I do think that something has to be said in the moment for kind of a parallel reason there is that I've always found it very problematic when you, you get in that situation where the two parents like try to put a hard segregation between those roles of disciplinary and a nurturer, because it means that one parent is always the disciplinary and if that parent is not present, no discipline happens. And children are smart enough to figure out pretty quickly that I can get away with literally anything as long as

parent A is not here because there's not going to be any consequences. That is in every household. I know. I agree. But I guess my point is that I believe it works that way for if you're having a small confrontation with an adult as well. People learn how far they can push other people. Yeah, that's true. So if you show that person, I will accept any amount of foolishness you give me unless my husband's around. You're going to get any amount of foolishness they want to dole out. And that's not, I don't think that's, I don't even think that's malice.

I think that's just how human beings operate. and i i have gotten better about pushing back and drawing the line and saying this is not acceptable you can't talk to me like this or say these things to me kind of thing usually not usually but it's not at most of my life you see how i changed that whole thing? Usually, sometimes, most of my life. This is standard Gillian. Not even 10 o'clock in the morning, Gillian. This is just her. I would let people run over me and say whatever and hurt my feelings, and then I would wallow in my own self-pity and wish I would have said something or had the backbone to say something.

But I handled it this time. And there's a time, though, there's, and I'm probably not the only woman who feels like this or wife that feels like this. Where you wish, I wish that you were around when some of these things happen. Because I know that you would around when some of these things happen, because I know that you would skull drag them down the road instead of me just saying, you know, I really don't appreciate you saying that. Or, um, you know, that's really just not something that you should say to me or something like that. Phil would go total mad max on anyone. And sometimes I just want to see it. And sometimes I think those people deserve it.

And maybe it's a guide, you know, a blessing from God that he's not around. And two things are happening. One, Gillian is growing a backbone and two, Phil's not committing murder and going to jail. I wouldn't,

I don't need to murder somebody to get my point across. I just have to explain to them that their behavior is upsetting me, and if they don't want to have a bad day, they should stop immediately. Well, but that's what I'm saying. Like, sometimes I wish that would happen. Like, there are moments when I'm just like, oh, man, if Phil was here, they'd never cross this line again because they wouldn't be able to walk. Yeah.

Sometimes it'd be okay, I think. But as it relates to parenting, that's kind of like my set, that's my alley, my layup for this episode. I personally think that men do gravitate towards the role of disciplinarian much more readily. And I think a lot of it's bound to just basic male-female psychology. And, you know, spoiler alert for the audience, if any of y'all out there take the position that there are no psychological differences between men and women, you can just turn this episode off right now. I won't be mad at you. We're going to disagree about everything for the next 45 minutes.

Right, right. Because, again, I've read the studies, and it's personal observation. Again, on the bell curve, if you were that one woman that this whole discussion flies in the face of, cool. You are on this end of the bell curve. But everybody else in the middle falls into this category. It could be a man, too. Very easily. There are exceptions to every rule, but the exception doesn't invalidate the rule, I guess is my point.

Men tend to be more object-oriented, more task-driven. We're more, on the averages, we are much more focused on, like, get the job done, get the mission complete, move on to the next task. Women tend to be much more... I'm trying to think. Huh? Yes. Well, women tend to be much more focused on interpersonal relationships, on emotions, on things that are less concrete, which doesn't make them any less important. But it does illustrate that there's like a fundamental difference between man and woman's kind of like what they most immediately latch on to. And that's not to say that women cannot be task oriented because forgive our cat.

She's, she's had a very, she's had a very long couple of days between her house being invaded and then us leaving her alone all day yesterday. And now, now Piper's door is shut. Piper door is shut. So she's very upset with everything for the last three days.

But women can be very task-driven. You have to be at work. So that proves you're capable of it. But I don't think it's your default position. I don't think it's what you naturally fall into as easily as you do being more concerned about interpersonal relationships and emotions.

I don't, but there are women that are very, yes. I did it again. Bell curve. Yes, bell curve. Yes, bell curve. And likewise, I know men who are much more emotional than I am, much more concerned about things that are less concrete

but that's not me and my observations men that's not most men most men are very much this is what needs to happen get the job done and i find that what you need in raising children whether or not it's a male or female child is irrelevant in this case. You need both. Yeah. You absolutely need both. And where it's going to get, where it gets hard are single parents. Yes.

Or even like single grandparents that are raising them. Or maybe, oh boy, this is about to get interesting y'all our cat she's so just okay maybe she won't crawl on the table but you might get to see vixie today she's very upset and i know we said that but she's she's about to crawl on the table and she is staring us down right now saying why is the door shut? But I agree with you. Obviously, I agree with you. I think we both were raised with, well, I'm going to crawl that back a little bit. The gender roles when I was growing up were slightly reversed.

My dad was a nurturer. My mom was a nurturer. My mom was a nurturer. But my mom was a disciplinarian. And there were times when, you know, the whole wait till your father gets home, you know, came out. But, I mean, nothing scary ever happened when dad got home. I mean, we would have a talk. Did you piss your mom off today? Or, you know, he didn't say that to us when dad got home. I mean, we would have a talk. Did you piss your mom off today? Or, you know, he didn't say that to us when we were kids, but when we were older, he was like,

what'd you do to piss your mom off today? It was almost like a, now I got to live with her. What did you do? Um, and there was a lot going on in our house too. So but i and you can probably gather this from a lot of the episodes we've done in the past when i've talked about my childhood but my dad did not he he grew up in a very abusive home and so he did not want to. He corrected. He did. He did. And he is a good father. I don't remember.

And maybe this is just because I'm almost 40 years old. I can't remember much. But I don't remember ever getting a spanking from my dad. But I remember the, it was almost like my mom, her fingers grew like this long and the bones hardened. And the witch hand came out when you got a spanking and then it would go back to normal, a normal hand. But it almost felt like my mom's hands changed when she gave us a spanking. Or I need one of those shirts that says wooden spoon survivor because she would get the wooden spoon or the fly swatter. And she was a disciplinarian. And we got spanked.

And, you know, we lived through it. And, you know, whatever. Piper's been spanked and I, you know, we lived through it and, you know, whatever Piper's been spanked before too. But yeah, my dad was, um, much more of the nurturer later on. Um, as we, Joe's asking what is a nurturer? I think he means, I think he means that sarcastically, I think he means that sarcastically, but. I don't know. Did he answer us? That wooden spoon. Oh, I didn't get it on the wrist.

I got the wooden spoon on the back of the leg. And there was one time, Nina, where my twin sister and I were probably 15 or 16 years old. And we had said something. I remember being in the kitchen and we had said something to my mom. And we had said something, I remember being in the kitchen, and we had said something to my mom, and she was doing something with newspaper. And we had said something not so nice about one of her friends. And she rolled up that newspaper and started hitting us like, like we were a dog or something. Like she was hitting us with a rolled up piece of newspaper. And we laughed at her. And I've never seen my mom move so fast to the wooden spoon jar.

And we both bolted out of that kitchen. And we were both, we were all laughing. But man, those wooden spoons. I never got a wooden spoon. We got belts too. Oh yeah. man, those wooden spoons. I never got a wooden spoon. We got belts, too. Oh, yeah. Belts, wooden spoon, hands. I think the hands were the worst because they stung different.

Like, they just, anyway. I'm telling you, like, Gen X into early millennials, the sound of a leather belt clearing five belt loops at Mach 2 is like, that is a sound firmly embedded in all of our brains. Because when you hear the belt go, Yeah. You know it's on. Yeah.

So, but I think in our family today, like this, me, you, and Piper, I'm so sorry about the coffin um we we share most we share the gender the the um gender roles and the parenting and because i feel like i agree with you that when discipline needs to happen it needs to happen right then and and i have perfected my my mom looks so well that it's it's like she can hear it from the other room i my my dad look is just like just all all the emotion drains out of my face the eyeballs bore into hers and And I'm just like, are you sure that you want to do this? Yeah. But, um, I can also be the nurturer, but she goes to you for nurture. I find it, she's gone back and forth on this over the years. Like there was a, there was a time she was definitely mama's girl and then daddy's girl and back and forth. And now I find she kind of splits those.

Like now that she's entering, she's approaching her teenage years, there are definitely times when she's more comfortable talking to you because you're a woman. Well, when it comes to things like that, but think about when she's had a bad day. Yes. Well, when it comes to things like that, but think about when she's had a bad day. Yes. Straight in through the front door, walks up to me, and just pounds her forehead against my chest. And usually starts crying.

No, nurturing does not mean coddling. At least it doesn't mean it to me. Now, I see a lot of coddled children. Yes. But to me, nurturing means let's talk about what's going on. Because this is my big thing, Joe. By the way, Joe put in the comments, nurture equals coddling. I don't want Piper to be coddled. I don't want her to have this feeling of superiority to people. That's

not even the right thing. I don't want her to feel like she's above someone else because she's been coddled her whole life or that she gets in her mind that, well, I can't do this because my daddy's going to do it or my daddy does this or my daddy can handle that. And it's like, no, you are a strong, young woman. You get up and go do it. I also, and you've probably heard me on the show say this, I want her to recognize her emotions and learn how to deal with her emotions now than in her 30s like I did and not know how to handle it. So I think nurturing is giving her, giving a child clear defined waypoints. Like this is okay. This is acceptable. It's okay to feel like this. It's, you're kind of going on the little crazy side over here. Let's bring that back a little bit. And I think it's also, I think the bottom line is it's a place where a child can feel safe.

Because remember, we're raising adults. And so I want her to know you do have a safe place. I have a safe place. And I know we laugh about safe places and crayons and ordering pizza and things like that. But everyone has to have that place where they can come and totally take off their, their shield and their walls and everything falls and they're, it's okay. And it's safe to be their most vulnerable.

And she has that with her parents. And I hope what we're doing is that when she's in her twenties and thirties and in her forties or wherever that she still feels like, if I need it, I can go to my mom and dad. I can, I can turn to them for help. I can turn to them for advice. I want her to know we are always, always available. We had the talk the other day, and this probably has nothing to do with this, but we had the talk the other day because we were watching something. And, you know, like Phil said, she's almost a teenager. She's going to be in high school in a year and a half. And so the parties are going to start. I know that she's going to be with her

friends more than not. And we, you know, we told her if you're ever at a party or you're with a friend or whatever, and the drinking starts, and I don't care if it's three o'clock in the morning, you call us. We won't judge. We've been there. Trust me, we've all been there. And I just want you safe. I just want you home safe. Don't get into a car because you think you're going to get in trouble because I'd rather you be in trouble than dead. So, and I don't know if it penetrated an 11 year old's head. Maybe if we started working on it a little bit more while she's 11 before she's 16, it might actually work. But anyway, I, um, I really try to look at my childhood, which, that's right, or her grandpa. I really tried to look at my childhood, and there's a lot of things that I would have done, I am doing different. And how I was raised and brought up and even disciplined.

raised and brought up and even disciplined. There's a lot that stopped when I became a parent. There's a lot that stopped when I became a wife that, you know, generational curses and generational traditions didn't carry over into this family. And maybe you can pick up on what I'm talking about. Maybe you can't, but I'm just saying that a lot of things stopped. And one of those things was to make sure that my child's emotional needs were met, but also making sure at the same time that she understood what was acceptable and not acceptable. Yeah.

I think from my perspective, coddling is what happens when you substitute nurturing for discipline. If that makes sense. There are moments in a child's life, what she desperately needs is discipline. Yeah. She's misbehaving. She's doing something she knew she shouldn't. he or she knew they shouldn't have been doing you know it everybody knows it and what they need at that moment is a course correction that is as gentle as possible but as firm as necessary like i don't believe in i i've always made it a point to try not to

punish when i'm angry. You know what I'm saying? Like, it's like if Piper has done something really out of the box, there are times when I'll be like, you know what? I'm going to take 10 minutes. You're going to go to your room and I'm going to come let you know what your punishment is after I've cooled down. Because I don't want to make that decision in the moment when I'm aggravated. But I think that there are times when that child needs discipline. They need the course correction. Otherwise, they're just going to go down their merry little

way of being a more intolerable shit than, you know, and it's never going to end. And there are times that a child needs nurture. That child needs to know it's okay to feel the way you do. And there are times when you got to have a fine mix of both. Like there have been times she's come home and talked to me about how she had a fight with one of her friends at school and lost her cool, screamed in their face. And I'll pull her aside and give her a little dose of both and be like, hey, it's totally understandable that you were upset. It's totally understandable that y'all had that confrontation and that it upsets you. It's not okay that you yelled at your friend. Yeah. It's not okay how you handled upset. It's totally understandable that y'all had that confrontation and that it upsets you. It's not okay

that you yelled at your friend. Yeah, it's not okay how you handled it. Yeah. So I guess what I'm saying is like if I had given her all the nurture and said,

oh, I understand how bad you felt and she pissed you off and yada, yada, yada without that course correction, that's coddling. Yeah. Because my goal and we've talked about this

on the show before, but like my goal is not to raise a child. She is a child. That mission was accomplished the moment she was born. She's already a kid. My goal is to raise an adult. She's got a certain benchmark she's got to reach so that she can function in society.

And I tell her all the time, and my dad is listening to this. He's probably going to start rolling his eyes any second because I swear to God, I heard all this from him when I was growing up. It just took me a long time to get it through my thick skull. But like I've told Piper, I'm like, if you use the words to me, I lost my temper. You didn't lose your temper. You let go of it. Your friend is not in control of you. Your classmates are not in control of you. You're in control of you. So like, I'm very, I'm very pointed with Piper about always making sure that she understands that

even though I can give her grace for the emotions, I can understand the emotions. Hell, I, you know, this better than most. I'm a very emotional person. I just hide a lot of it.

And I don't know if that's a good thing or a bad thing, but it is my way. So, like, I get it. I understand where she's come from. I understand the feelings. But none of that obfuscates the necessity for her to control herself. Because if I'm at work in a professional setting and I, you know, get pissed off and lose my cool and scream and yell at all my coworkers that I don't have a job when I come home, are you going to pat me on the butt and say, oh, it's okay, you lost.

You know, they were being ugly to you. Or are you going to say, Phil, we have no income. What are you doing? You know, like, so I guess that's kind of my point of view. Coddling happens when you forget the need to administer discipline and all you do is nurture. And the opposite is also true. I don't know that there's a word for it. But if all you do is discipline and you don't nurture, you have the opposite problem.

You have kids that never learn how to deal with their emotions. They're taught shut up and quit crying and shove it down. Would that then go into emotional abuse? I don't know that I like the term emotional abuse. I think it is more of like failing to teach that child how to deal with their emotions. You know what I'm saying? Like I do again, I,

again, I'm, I'm kind of, I don't want to know that wishy-washy is the right term. I have two ways of thinking about this because from my own life experience, you know, military and everything else, like obviously I've been in situations where dealing with the emotions in the

moment was inappropriate or impossible. With me or her? No, I'm saying like back to my military days. Oh, oh, oh, I'm sorry. I zoned out. I'm saying that there are times where dealing with the emotions in that exact moment are not possible. They're not appropriate. You have to kind of like shove them down into a box and deal with them later.

Oh, yes. I get you. Okay. And I think that applies to everybody to some degree. Like there's just a point where you have to, the emotions cannot rule you. You have to learn to control them. You have to do what has to be done, but you also have to be taught to let those emotions out in your safe space afterwards. Yeah. Otherwise you become, you're raising a child that doesn't know how to deal with those emotions. They don't know how to decompress. They don't know how to let the load down. They don't know how to let their walls down. They don't know how to emotionally connect with other people.

The only thing they've ever been taught is shut up and quit crying. And that, I think you wind up in the exact opposite situation from a child that's been coddled with that. You wind up, actually, I think you wind up with, on the outside, it'll look like two very different children, but you wind up at the same end result. You wind up with a child that's not balanced. Yeah, that doesn't know how to handle their emotions. how to handle their emotions. In both cases, well, in one case, you wind up with a child who knows how to act, but they don't know how to feel. In the other, you wind up with a child that knows how to feel, but they don't know how

to act. Yeah. And you get the same end result. You get children who cannot control themselves. Yeah. They don't know how to control themselves physically or emotionally, and one will eventually override the other. So that's kind of my spiel. I think that men tend to fall into this role of disciplinary much more readily,

and women tend to fall into the role of nurturing much more readily. I don't think either should be exclusive to either gender, and I think both are critically important to raising children. I mean, that's, I, I, and again, this is like not taking anything away from people that are in that situation of trying to be a single parent. It sucks. It's hard. All I'm going to say is all the data that's out there says that the children of single parents tend to have a much harder time in life. And I believe that's because they're missing one of those two key components. Yeah. I'm looking up something because Nina just made a comment.

And if you'll read that, then... Oh, I found it. Okay. So, Nina, your comment is... It says that... Okay. So Nina, your comment is, it says that, that sounds like the old studies they did on orphans, give them the necessary food and water, but no human touch or nurturing. They did not thrive at all. So there, I mean, there's not just old studies, there's new evidence and it's not just evidence, but there are actual volunteers in a hospital that will go and they just rock babies because the babies have failure to thrive. And so I think that's probably what you're talking about is the failure to thrive. And it's not a disease, but it's the baby just needs skin-to-skin contact and to hear another person's voice and to feel safe and all that stuff. And that actually helps them and hopefully gets them to a point emotionally that they can thrive.

So, yeah, failure to thrive. And it does take some babies' lives. But I think... It takes some adults' lives. But I think... It takes some adults' lives, too. I was about to say, I think it can continue to go. We're just, we are communal animals. We have to be around others. We have to, even though I hate going into town and I don't like people very much and I don't like peopling, I still people with my favorite people.

And yes, we don't just need food and water. We need to be nurtured and we need to have that human contact. And we need to feel safe with another person because it's ingrained in our DNA that we are just communal animals. And we have to have that i mean a lion who gets separated or kicked out or even like a gorilla that gets kicked out of their um is it a tribe well it's a pride for a lion i'm not sure what it is for the collective noun for that but um they don't do well and a lot of times they're killed off by other animals but um yeah definitely definitely failure to thrive. And you have to meet the basic needs of a human. You have to meet the basic needs of a kid in order for them to just

be able to focus and learn during the day at school. And one of those basic needs is emotion. You know, have they eaten breakfast? Did they get enough sleep? And then do they feel emotionally at peace today? And that's going to help you reach that student to teach them. And so, yeah, if it's a basic need for a student to learn, then it's a basic need for a human to survive. I mean, I always think back to like when Piper was really, really little. And I did a lot of, especially the first couple of weeks, because you had a hell of a time healing from birthing her. But I think back to those times when like I would get up with her, I'd feed her, I'd rock her back to sleep. Sometimes I would just fall asleep with her on my chest in the rocking chair. And I, when she woke up, I'd wake back up, go feed her again. You know,

like sometimes we didn't even come back to bed. That's just how we did it. But I always remember because like you were in such a fragile state, like you were, you were very anxious and you had a lot of trouble calming yourself down and she, therefore you couldn't calm her down. But because of my personality, I guess, you know, that, that ability to like, just very quickly decompress, shed stress, and then do what I had to do, I was able to calm myself down and calm her down. And like, as soon as I got her fed and burped, two or three minutes, she was snoring on my chest. Yeah. Well, you have some fancy dad hormone, pheromone thing that works. I don't think there's a dad hormone that puts kids to sleep. I think she just, she felt safe. She felt safe and at peace with you.

I know that was always our thing is that she could always feel my anxiety and that made her anxious. And I wish that that was different, but it's not. And it is what it is. But I was very grateful that she at least had one parent that had his emotions together that made her feel safe and peaceful and all that stuff. And I did want to go back because Nina's new comment is about a boy who would lash out just to get any kind of hands, like hands on, because he didn't know how else to get that touch. And I see it. There's one boy in particular in our lower elementary that it's, so I work car line most mornings and I a lot of times get this boy out of his car and mom is always on the cell phone. She's always doing something in

the front seat. She never tells him goodbye, never tells him have a good day, never tells him I love you, nothing. And he gets out of the car. He's five. Gets out of the car and just goes and she drives off. And it's just so sad to me. Well, he also has behavior issues. And so it was been pulling at my heartstrings for so, so long with this boy that I see this every day. He's dropped off at between 730 and 745 and doesn't get picked up until six o'clock because he's in aftercare.

And his behavior is strictly because he just needs that attention. He needs to feel loved and nurtured and not left and not forgotten by mom, dad, whoever. And so I started playing like this little game, like instead of saying, look, if you don't improve your behavior, you're getting five minutes off at recess. I hate taking time off at recess for kids, but sometimes that's the only thing that gets into their little noggin. So I started said, Mr. Ravele is going to hug you. And this kid, I, it was almost like he didn't know what to do. Like he smiled and it was like, no, you're not. No, you're not smiling saying, no, you're not. He gets out of the car

now and he hugs me because he knows that it's safe. I can hug Ms. Ravele and I can, and I can start his, I can help start his day off a little bit better feeling loved, feeling nurtured. And it's not, are the behavior issues still there? Yeah. A lot of them are, but he's also getting that from his other teachers too. And it's, it's turned into a, this child is just so combative and so disrespectful and so whatever into he just needs more love than a lot of the kids do. And that's really all it was. He just needed to feel safe and loved. So, yeah, it is. It's a sweet thing.

And there's a lot of them. I wouldn't say a lot. There's a handful of kids like that in our school, unfortunately. And what's happened in the middle school is a lot of those kids grew up and they still didn't get it. And so now we have behavior issues with our middle schoolers who are any attention is good attention, whether it's good or bad. But you can't. I mean, you can hug a middle schooler. Hold your breath, but, um,

it's, I don't know. I think it's different. It feels a little bit different. They're more aware. There's not so much of a, um, I don't even know what I'm trying to say. Like they're, they're more aware of relationships and it gets a little, it gets a little weird. But, yeah, so this little boy gets out. We give him a hug and high fives down the hall. Or, you know, just we changed our tactics of telling him, you know, this isn't acceptable behavior and you're getting five minutes off or blah, blah, blah. And said, you know, yeah, we, we just, we tell him those things like this isn't acceptable. Like you can't do this. And it really hurts my heart when you do things like this or whatever, but we focus more on the positives. You know, you did such a great job. I saw how you crossed the monkey bars. You did so good. And I mean, the smile that comes on

this kid face, it'll just, oh, it's's just so sweet but that's what he needed was a nurturer he needed his teachers to nurture him because he's not being nurtured at home and this is why you know again if if you vehemently disagree with what i'm about to say to turn this episode off i'm not mad at you but we're just gonna have to disagree but like this is why i firmly believe that you know man and woman was biologically designed to produce child. I don't think that's an accident. I think that's a little bit of, you know, our divine creator was smarter than all of us are. And I think he also designed each one of us psychologically to nurture and raise that child in a balanced way together.

to nurture and raise that child in a balanced way together. Obviously, this is you and I, but this is also anathema to a portion of my fellow countrymen that insists there are no differences between men and women, and women can do everything men can do, and vice versa, and men can even be women, and vice versa. But my point is, no, I don't buy into any of that. I think men and women were designed to complement each other and to naturally make up for each other's, I don't want to call it shortcomings, but to balance each other out. Yeah. And therefore to balance out that parenting approach. Because whereas you might have looked at that situation and said, that child needs nurturing. I might have gone the other direction and said, nope,

that kid needs discipline until they get it through their thick skull. They need to behave themselves. And this is we, you and I have had this little disagreement with that child on occasion. Now, I will say this, because this was something that was really big with me, and we've been pretty good about this. Not getting mad but i will i will say that like for anybody out there that is like thinking of becoming a parent in the near future please take this heartfelt advice from me instill in your marriage early to not disagree in front of the children do not let that child understand. And by the way, this isn't even just the kids.

This is anybody. Neighbors, family, everybody. Mom and dad, husband and wife are in lockstep on everything. And if they disagree, do that behind closed doors. Because there's nothing, I don't think there's anything more toxic to a child than for them to understand they can pit mom and dad against each other. That is dangerous. I have seen it rip marriages apart. And quite frankly, if you find yourself in a position of talking smack about your spouse to the kid, you deserve what comes next because it's just, it's a bad, it's bad. Don't do that.

All that being said, there have been times where you've pulled me aside and been like, I think you might have gone a little bit over the top on that one. Like, there were just times where, like, I read a situation. I give you the wife look. It's different from the mom look, but I give you the wife look. Yeah. Well, I mean, there were times when I read the situation and Dr. Phil was prescribing a dose of discipline, and you were like, hmm.

But I will say that one thing as a result of the two of us trying to mentor each other through parenting. Because you used to ask me very frequently, and you still do on occasion, why does she treat you differently than I do? Because there are certain things Piper will try to get away with with you that she won't even attempt with me. And I've said before, I'm like, it's because when she does those things with me, the discipline is immediate. It is, again, it is as sharp as it has to be,

as gentle as it can be, but it is a very quick and directed, you need to get back on that side of the line right now. And I don't tolerate it. I don't excuse it. There is no, oh, she's having a bad day. It's like, no, that's not acceptable. You're going to stop doing it immediately. And that's why there are certain things she tries to get away with with you because she thinks she can, whether or not she can is irrelevant. She thinks she can. But by the same token, because of you mentoring me through parenting, I developed this habit where when I had to punish her, I would always follow it up with a hug. It sounds like a silly thing.

No, and she needs that. I mean, she looks for that. I think she actually looks forward to the hug at the end of whatever talking, the talk, discipline session that y'all have. And you do a really good job about it. I am more of a to the point disciplinarian. Like for instance, yesterday, I had set out something to eat at my sister's house, and it is one of her favorite things to eat. And none of the guests were there, the charcuterie board. Oh. And none of the guests were there, and I was like, you can't eat this.

You can go in the bag and eat the things out of the bag, but you cannot eat this yet. Like, we have to wait for the guests to get here. Kind of like me and her in the sausage bowls. And she argued and argued. I mean, and the face and okay, and the tone and oh, the tone. If I'm going to get, I've got to get through her

teenage years with the tone. Okay. In fact, she did something last night when we got home and I looked at her and I was like, change your tone. Do not talk to me in that tone of voice. Like, we can have a great conversation. I can answer your questions. I can help you out with whatever you're dealing with,

but I will not allow you to talk to me in that tone. But she, she, anyway, so I'm like a more, here it is. Mainly because I don't like confrontation. I don't even like confrontation with my own kid. I don't like confrontation. I don't even like confrontation with my own kid. I don't like disappointing her. It's hard to disappoint your child. It's hard to show her a different side of you that's not the nurturer and the, you know, the nice, sweet mom.

I mean, I do it. It's second nature at this point because it has to get done because I don't want to raise a little brat, but, um, she just, yeah, she just acts different with you and your, your discipline talks go so long. Sometimes I tone out your discipline talks and your stories and the, you know, the, um, all the, the things that you have to say to her, I think, but it works. It, whatever you do is obviously working and it's getting through to her. But I think my way of disciplining too gets through to her. I just walk a very fine line of being a total bitch and being a disciplining mom, like a mom who's disciplining or being a total bitch.

And I think that's where, that is where I need to work on. That is what I need to work on is not becoming this woman who is just so totally offended by the actions of her preteen daughter. Taking it personally. Yeah. And taking it personally and becoming more objective and saying this is her, this is what's going through her head, these are the emotions she's feeling, this is what she needs right now.

But in the same breath, I tend to go to the discipline first and then the nurture. I guess that's what you said. You do that too. You discipline first and then the nurture. I guess that's what you said. You do that too. You discipline first and then nurture. I don't want her to feel like I'm trying to be ugly. I'm not trying to be ugly, but I also don't want her to think that it's okay to do or say those things

or to act a certain way. It's just, it's not. So I guess the difference for me is like I short circuit that entire process and I go straight to what does she need? If she needs discipline, she gets discipline. But I think I just said the same thing. Well, but to me though, what I'm hearing is that you also, you almost like second guess yourself. I'm always second guessing myself. But I guess that's what i'm

saying is i don't i i whatever i think she needs she gets and i i hate to i've told piper on a few occasions and i love you have to understand i love my daughter more than life itself almost as much as i love my wife and it broke her heart to hear that I love you more than her. But in spite of all that, I don't really care if she thinks ill of me. And I've told her that before. I'm like, my job is not to make you happy. That's your job. And if you get married, it's your husband's job, not mine. My job is to love you, take care of you, nurture you, and teach you

so that you can be a successful person. Yeah. So if in the course of doing all that, you think dad's a jerk, cool beans. Pay for therapy when you get older. I don't care. I'm going to do what I think. I'm going to do what I think is necessary. Please don't ever say that to her.

That was said to me. I was always told, well, these things, you know, we do these things so that you'll have something to tell your therapist later. No, I didn't tell her literally by therapy. But what I told her was, I am not here to be your friend and I am not here to make you happy. My job is to teach you and raise you. And along the way, if she allows me to, we can be really cool together. We can play games. We can have fun.

We can go on trips and vacations. We can do fun stuff. And this is going to be a really weird parallel, but I'm going to invoke the same thing that I used to tell employees of mine when I was still in management. I can be the nicest manager you'll ever have. I don't have to yell. I don't have to yell. I don't have to scream. I don't have to boss. All I have to do is say, hey guys, let's get this taken care of. And it gets taken care of. I can also be the biggest jerk you've ever met. I can scream. I can yell. I can boss. I can micromanage. I can do all those things. Which one you get is up to y'all, not me.

I'm going to get the job done and it's going to get done in as friendly or as ugly a fashion as you force it to be. And I've told that little girl the exact same, almost the exact same thing. Our relationship as father-daughter is conducted according to how you behave, not me. I have a job to do and I'm going to do the job. If you allow me to do that job in a way where we can be cool with each other, I would prefer that. But if you force me into the position of being the disciplinarian or busting your butt or constantly correcting you, I mean, I'll do that too. I just don't like to. I've even told you this like even though she will never know it there have been times where i've punished her and i've come to you and be like god i hate punishing her oh yeah because i because i don't like doing it i i i do not like to have a

confrontational relationship with my child i just accept that sometimes that's part of the gig and i it's it's like i care that it's that way but I'm still going to do it because it needs to be done. Yeah. So, like, I feel like even though I started off by saying that, I feel like each gender kind of has their predisposition. think it's incredibly important that both parents have the ability to do both and to have and uh in kind of an ode to the serenity prayer of like you know the the uh oh what is it i swear to god it used to be up on one of our walls never never we've never had the serenity prayer but in any case the last the last sentence in the in the serenity prayer, the wisdom to know the difference. All children need discipline and nurturing.

I pray for us to have the wisdom to know when that child needs which and administer it as needed. Yeah. Because I don't think it's helpful to have one parent be the nurturer and one parent be the disciplinarian. Unless both parents are going to be at that child's side for like the literal entire time they're being raised and that's not how that happens a lot of times each parent has to be able to do both yeah they do and yeah i'm glad you popped that up there so joe said it's hard to separate friendships with your child from parenting for the children when your kids are who you hang out with i I think I've told this story before, but I had playground duty a couple of weeks ago with the middle schoolers. And one of my

middle schoolers who's in Piper's class came up and said, well, Ms. Rabelais will do it because she's my friend. And I looked at her and said, I'm not your friend. And she, oh, Ms. Ravely, how could you say that? That's so mean. And she goes, you're Piper's friend. And I said, I am not your friend and I'm definitely not her friend. I said, I'm her mom and her teacher. And she was just kind of taken aback. And I said, I'm none of y'all's friends. I am your teacher. This is not how the relationship goes. Like we are not friends. And so Piper is very well aware that we are not friends. And during Thanksgiving, I sat at this table and my mother-in-law was on one side and my mother was on the other side of me. And we were talking about, you know, things at school and some

kids and, and I would, Piper was sitting next to her daddy and I said, I'm not her friend. And I'm pointing at Piper. I said, I'm not her friend. And my mom's face was like, what? How could you say such a thing? I'm not her friend. I might be her friend when she turns 25. But even then the, the friendship roles are still squishy. Like it's still, you, you have to, because my parents are my parents in my, my head. Like they're my parents. I, I'm, this is going to sound very mean and, you know, just mean, but my parents are not my friends. They're my parents. And I've always felt really weird having my... There was a moment in time.

I'm trying to dance around this. There was a moment in time when my mom lived across the street from me when I was in college. And she hung out in the same bars that I hung out in. And my parents were going through a divorce and all that stuff. And if I knew where she was that night, I wouldn't go there because I thought it was really weird that I was hanging out with my mom. A little odd. I was in college. And so there was always that separation for me. And I think it's healthy. I think you have to have that relationship separation of being the parent and not being the friend. I don't expect Piper to be like calling me up one day and be like,

hey, mom, let's go hang out at the bar and help me, you know, be my wing lady and help me find a man or whatever. And it's like, I don't know. But Joe, you know, we'll see what happens as she grows up. Right now she knows that she's not my friend and she's not Phil's friend and that we're mom and dad. And those relationships will never blur in the immediate future. And more to the point, she's not friends with any adult. No, she's not a friend with any adult.

You have older family members and then you have the parents of your friends who are also to be treated as parents. Adults are not your friend. Yeah. And that's probably one of the weirdest things for me is to see there's so many students that I know that are friends with adults and like they text adults this adult or they text that adult and there's just weird relationships that happen with these adults and children and and I think that's one of the reasons why the these kids on the playground were like what how could you say that that's so mean and it's like because it's weird it's creepy and i'm not that's why you call me mrs rabelais and not gillian you know i think the way i feel about it is like in order for in order for two people to quote unquote be friends i think they have to be at least somewhat

on the same level somewhat equals you know i'm saying yeah like i'm 41 years old my father's in his late 60s i wouldn't say he and i are equals i see and that's the way i feel too but i do feel like our relationship has changed dramatically over the last 20 years we've become kind of more we've've become more, I would say more casual, more open with each other because I am a grown man. I, you know, married, kid, taxpayer, career, putting away for retirement. Like he, he, I am now where he used to be. And I feel like because I've come to that point in our relationship as father, son, where like there have been times he's had to lean on me the way i used to lean on him when i was a kid i feel like our relationship has kind of like

done a little bit of this but he's i still don't see him as my friend i see him as my father he's always going to be that person that when he gives advice i'm going to listen to it i'm not going to necessarily act on it 100 but percent, but I'm going to at least listen. And he knows that if I'm going to take five minutes out of my day to listen to what you're saying, I at least respect you enough to listen. Because if I don't respect somebody, I will dismiss their existence so fast they'll question it themselves. But I just, I don't know. I feel like there needs to be very clear division between children and parents and children and adults. I think that kids need to be friends with kids. I think parents need to ensure that they're not themselves violating that line and becoming their kids' friends,

because you cannot be your kid's friend and their parent and their teacher at the same time. and their parent and their teacher at the same time. I don't believe it can be done. No, when those lines get skewed and squishy like that, then I feel like you've lost any amount of control that you would have had. So say like if you had to turn around and discipline, your discipline doesn't have a hard backing to it anymore to me. Can I discipline you? In a platonic way.

No. Why not? Because I'm a grown adult. Because we're equals, right? Okay, yeah. Because we're equals, we're friends, we're on the same plane. I don't get to impose my will upon you. I have to bargain with you if I want to modify your behavior.

Right? Yeah. And this is to illustrate that this is what happens when parent steps over the line and becomes your child's friend. Now you're that child's equal. You don't have the ability to say. And the bargaining does happen. You don't have to. You don't.

And you no longer have the. And it's not even like the legal right. Because this is way past legalities. This is emotions and this is power dynamics. This is, anyway, this is a big old psychological discussion that I studied a lot. But like you're at the stage now where you have to ability to say you will go to your room and be grounded for the weekend and not go out with your friends because you've done something bad because the child will say, you can't tell me what to do. Yeah. Have you ever heard that come out of a child's mouth who is well adjusted and knew, yes, my parent can tell me what to do because I will go take all your lug nuts off the car and the battery out and you're not going anywhere if I say you're not. Like my point of view is that because Piper and we have

that relationship with Piper where she intrinsically understands that if mom and dad say something, it's going to happen. Yeah, she does. How often do we have to punish her? She's not punished often. No, she's really not punished often. And she hasn't been punished often since she was like two years old, maybe three. I mean, she's a great kid. Well, she did lose electronics a couple of weeks ago. Oh, yeah. I forgot what she did. That was because she stayed up late watching TV.

Oh, yeah. You had told her one more show, and then she stayed up until almost midnight. Yeah. And then, yeah. So she lost electronics the next day. Yeah. All of it. Now, wait.

Was it that, or was it the time when I told her she had to have her shower done by the time you and I were done with our walk around the neighborhood? Oh, yeah. Okay. Yeah. And she like- She was punished for that, too. She zoned out

watch yeah okay listen the tv sucks kids brains out i'm convinced but the tv sucked her brain out she didn't get the things done she's she was told to and when i came home and i saw her still sitting in that chair with a look of panic on her face because she heard the key going in the door i was like you haven't moved from that spot have you the dishwasher was not loaded and she had not started her bath or whatever it was yeah yeah and you know she lost the exact thing that caused the problem and it was only for that night and all like no no laptop no phone anything that runs on electron she was banned from for the night yeah you can read a book or you can stare at the ceiling yeah yeah well but the problem is if you take away the tv but she still gets her phone or anything else or her laptop it's like all we've done is shift i remember her saying well can

we play a game and we both said no because that is a reward for her she loves playing board games and having like family game night and we said no that's not happening tonight there will not be that sort of nurture because that's what it is um in this discipline that that's not happening you you've lost the privilege of having those things so yeah but i i don't know where else to go from here except to maybe wrap it up. But I feel like we kind of clearly illustrate that we do fall into those very traditional gender roles

very fluidly. I think we both are very capable and willing to step out of those traditional roles into the role that our child needs. I think it's important to recognize what your predilection is. Like if you are a born disciplinarian, push yourself to learn how to nurture and vice versa. Because at the end of the day, I always come back to this idea that like my job is to raise my kid. Like my job is to raise my kid.

My kid is not going to suffer because I am spring-loaded to the disciplinarian direction and not a born nurturer. I'm going to have to push myself to get better at that. It's no different to me than if my wife needs something and I say, well, I'm not very good at that. Well, then I'm just going to have to work a lot harder at it. Which is what we've done. Both of us have done that. Yeah. I think, I think what's important here is that you have to recognize what's necessary for that person's wellbeing, your child in this case, and you have to push yourself to deliver it to them.

Whatever that takes, whatever it is. And if you don't know how to do that, then go learn. But I personally think that there is something to be said for the fact that male and female psychology does kind of predispose them towards one or the other. And Joe, I don't think you derailed us at all. In fact, you gave us a segue into something that we didn't even think about with the nurture versus coddling and all that stuff, too. So that's why we do these live shows like this, because we us. Give us a different point of view, whatever. And, you know, that we'll be respectful about what your thoughts are and things like that. So there is, I think, one announcement that we need to make, and that is Prepper Camp tickets. Prepper Camp tickets are on sale.

Yay! I'm so excited. I cannot wait for Prepper Camp next year. If you go to PrepperCamp.com, you can go on and purchase your tickets. You are going to want to purchase those tickets. And I think they are doing a holiday sale right now. They are, I believe. Now, don't shoot the messenger if I'm wrong on this.

But I'm pretty sure they were priced at $54.99 for adult tickets. If you get them right now, student tickets, which are, I think, age like 8 or 9 to 16. Should I pull it up? No, don't. No, don't. The point is that the tickets are as cheap as they're going to be right now. Yes. Period of discussion.

As we get closer and closer to the end of September, where Prepper Camp will be next year, the ticket prices are going to go up. If you think you're going to want to go, it is in your best interest to go get them right now. Andrew and I have already worked an agreement to secure a vendor's booth for next year, so we'll be down in the vendor's area to meet everybody, to do interviews, to record content. I'll be there to record. And Gillian and Piper.

Well, that's going to be a discussion you and I need to have with Andrew as we get closer to figure out, do we want to try to run Raising Values? Probably not. Interviews and matter of fact, interviews out of that same. But I'll be there. And there's no reason you can't. I'll be the producer that week. I'm going to have to teach you then.

Holiday season tickets for adults are $54.95. Holiday season tickets for students ages 7 to 15 is $44.95. And then because they do have to charge for all children, children 2 to 7 are $9.95. You will not have those deals for long. I think you better jump on it and get those tickets now. And if you're going and you are not within the local area, you definitely need to start looking at lodging immediately. There is a limited amount of camping at Orchard Lake, which we're on a waiting list for. I'm hoping we get something. If not, we're going to have to kind of just suck it up and camp down in the vendors area.

It'll work. We'll figure it out. I mean, it's not like we're not off-grid capable. Yeah. But in any case. We would love to see you all there. Yeah. But if you don't end up camping at Orchard Lake, there are Airbnbs, there are bed and breakfast, there's hotels, if you don't mind, about a half hour, 45 minute drive.

I mean, there's places to stay. But Prepper Camp is that event that I encourage everybody to go to at least once. It's a great networking opportunity to meet other people that think the way we do. It's a great opportunity to meet people that don't think the way you do and expand your horizons a little bit. And it's a chance to learn literally any kind of skill and preparedness you can think of. Everything from the primitive stuff all the way to cybersecurity. Yeah, as I say, we're not just out there meddling with herbs and things like that. But you will be.

Oh, I will be. You can come meddle with herbs with me. Gillian will be crawling around in the woods looking for eusnea and turkey and chicken of the woods. Turkey tail. Turkey tail, whatever. Anyway, yeah, so get your Prepper Camp tickets, and we should be back next Sunday. We don't have any camping trips planned.

It's getting cold and wet here, so not exactly the best camping weather. But it's going to be a busy month for everyone with Christmas coming up. As you can see, our house is already Christmasified is what Piper calls it. So we should be back next Sunday and this audio will drop on Tuesday. And if you're listening to the audio, you already know that. But yeah, I think that's it.

Thank you guys for tuning in. And like I said, we so enjoy and I can't think of the word. We love having y'all on our live shows to comment along the way to help us out a little bit. So anyway, well, we'll see y'all next week.

We hope you have a good week and that's it. Okay. Goodbye. Bye. Thank you.