The Press Box - '60 Minutes,' the NBA Finals, and the California Primaries

Episode Date: June 4, 2026

Today on The Press Box: '60 Minutes,' the NBA Finals, and the California primaries. Joel and Bryan react to the latest news regarding '60 Minutes,' including the hiring of Nick Bilton, Scott Pelley's departure, and more (01:20). Then, ESPN's Vince Goodwill joins from San Antonio, sharing his observations from Game 1 of the NBA Finals (25:30). Plus, Gustavo Arellano breaks down the California primaries (48:05). Host: Joel Anderson Guests: Bryan Curtis, Vince Goodwill, and Gustavo Arellano Producers: Tucker Tashjian, Isaiah Blakely, Conor Nevins and Ben Cruz Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

What's good media consumers? Welcome to the press box. It's Joel Anderson and producer Tucker Tash. And he's filling in after a late night of covering the NBA. We're grateful for him. And he's on the ones and twos today. I'm sliding over into the host seat for our fearless leader, Brian Curtis, who is out this week on an excursion.

He'll tell you a little bit later where he's at. But he's still so dedicated to our podcast and he's going to check in from across the pond a little bit later. And so coming up on today, action-packed pod. The clock seems to be ticking. Forget it ticking. For the oldest and most watched TV news magazine after another week of turnover and turmoil. We'll bring on LA Times columnist Gustavo Arlano to talk about the California primaries where a Trump-induced Republican has the lead in the governor's race and a Trump-endors reality star seems headed to a runoff against the incumbent.

What the hell is going on to the nation's largest blue state? And also we're going to have friend of the show, Vinnie Goodwill of ESPN, who's going to report to us from San Antonio, where the New York Knicks took a 1-0 lead over the Spurs and the NBA finals on. This spring, denim gets a softer, lighter update. Introducing Old Navy's drapey denim wide leg,

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Wednesday. Man, what a week it's been over at 524, West 57th Street. That's the address to the CBS. broadcast center where the internal conflict has come spilling out in the public after CBS news editor-in-chief Barry Weiss started making changes to the venerable TV news magazine 60 Minutes. Things really came to a head after CBS-fired longtime executive producer Tanya Simon and correspondent Cecilia Vega and Sharon Alfonzi. A week ago, Weiss installed Nick Bilton, and it's just a former New York Times technology columnist and filmmaker is her pick to lead

60 minutes. Notably, Billton has no experience in TV news. And that's when longtime correspondent, Scott Pelly, took center stage. He first charged into the mess during a staff meeting on Tuesday, demanding answers about why his colleagues were fired. He also said Billton had slender qualifications for this job and accused wife, who wasn't at the meeting, of murdering 60 minutes with her changes. Next day, Pelley got his release from the show for what Billton called insubordination,

and even the way that went down is currently under dispute, with Wising, they tried to find a way back with Pelly, and Pelley responding that CBS Brass was, quote, openly hostile from the start. Now we bring in our Swedish correspondent, Brian Curtis, to break it all down. Brian, good to see you, man. It's good to see you. You know, I was eating meatballs. I was eating herring.

I was going to get on the plane back to the United States tomorrow and just listen to what wonderful press box you would put together. But then the Nico Harrison of TV news struck again. Oh, what a fantastic analogy. Nico Harrison. And I had to, I just had to call because I was like, I, to quote Skip Bayless, Joel, I am ready to unleash. Oh, good.

Okay. When I saw your text in my phone and you said you thought you had to check out, I was like, oh, my God. Thank God, Brian. I didn't want to do this without you. So I want you to unleash. what the hell is going on here? Who do you believe?

She's murdering CBS and she's murdering 60 Minutes. Scott Pelley's right. And she's doing it because 60 Minutes was the one part of CBS news that she didn't control. The evening news with Tony DeCopal that was under control.

That was, if it was going to offend Trump, it was going to offend Trump in a way that Barry Weiss was very aware of. 60 Minutes was not under control. Right. We saw that last year. when she tried to step in on that Seacot segment about the prison in El Salvador.

So this is Barry Weiss taking control of CBS, taking control of 60 minutes in the most dramatic way possible. Did you, I mean, because I think the thing is, is that we knew that 60 minutes was in her sights and people had been suggesting for a while that she was going to turn toward it eventually. But there's no way.

I mean, even the most, um, people, most dubious of her, leadership, I didn't think it would go down like this, this quickly that she would actually do that sort of an overreach. Did you, did you see this coming at all? I'm a little bit surprised. Yeah. I thought we'd get more of a barry inflected CB or 60 minutes with most of the same people there. Okay. I mean, she's down to three out of the seven correspondence from last year. Yes, right. And that's because we don't know what the other three are doing yet. Right. It may be 0 for

seven. And they just met with a couple of days ago. So this is Leslie Stahl, whose contract, I think, is already up, Bill Whitaker and John Wertheim, right? And they met and they're trying to figure out what the, what would you do if you were them? Because that's what I'm thinking. I was like, this is not the 60 minutes that they signed up for, obviously. It's really not. And if John Wertheim can make it through last week's Sports Illustrated Purge and this week's 60 Minutes purge, he deserves some kind of media survivor award. I mean, truly, he was filing from the French show, but after they fired everybody else

or got rid of everybody else at Sports Illustrated, I'm like, wow, he's back at the, he's back at another embattled news organization. I mean, it's crazy, man. And again, I kind of thought maybe 60 Minutes might be one of those news brands that might be able to survive with this. It's that popular, that iconic,

profitable, too, makes money for CBS. Profitable. And I just thought, okay, well, maybe they might be willing to let that go in the interest of not rocking the boat. Because what do you get from pissing everybody off like this? You get control. That's the one thing you get.

I mean, that's the thing. And you and I have asked this question over and over again. What's the point at which David Ellison says, maybe hiring Barry to run CBS News was a bad idea? And I keep waiting for that. All the blowback, all the segments that everybody's done about this,

including us. But look at this today. you know, Scott Pelly standing up at a meeting saying you are murdering 60 minutes. Yeah. I mean, there's no way that you get there without his blessing because this is just terrible. It's absolutely terrible. And to your question of what would you do, you have to do what Scott Pelley did, which is you got to walk. Wow.

Into this economy, though? Into this economy. Well, look, yeah, I say that bravely. Right. But if you're one of these long, I mean, Leslie Stoll and Bill Whitaker. have been there for a long time. Right. You know, can you return to a 60 minutes where your executive producer has been let go,

where your executive editor has been let go, where two other correspondents have been let go? And this is just in the last week that's happened, or the last couple of weeks that's happened, where Barry Weiss has tried to interfere in your stories. And if you read the other memo that Pelley filed, and by the way, we're not giving out any awards for great media writing this year because they're all going to be. going to CBS people who have written memos about their own network. Well, they know that they're going to go public. Yeah, Jeremy Barr, Claire Malone.

You did a great job this year, but all the awards are going to people who wrote memos about CBS. But he had this interesting line. This is Pelley in there where he was saying that they were trying to inject falsehoods and bias into a politically sensitive story. Yeah. So if he's correct, how can you come back to a show like that? That's right.

What is there to come back to? And I wouldn't blame anybody for saying, I'm out. I got to walk away from this. So I want to play some quick sound from the PBS News Hour interview with Steve Croft, who was a 60 Minutes correspondent for 30 years before retiring in 2019. Well, I think that this is journalistic interference. It makes no business sense whatsoever. The show is still doing very well.

It's the highest rated news program on television. And it has been that way for more than 50 years. the audience was up about 9% last year. And why would you mess with that? It's got an audience of about 10 million people, between 9 and 10 million people, which is still one of the largest audiences on network television. And it's funny that you mentioned this, Brian,

because, and I don't know if it was Jeremy Barr who reported this or if it was a New York Post that reported this, but one of the two said that when Barry Weiss has to make a... make tough decision. She goes to David Ellison and says, what's your tolerance for pain? And he says, hi. So you're right. Like David Ellison, presumably there's nothing that she can do that will dissuade him from leaving her in charge and running it in the manner that she sees fit. The one thing I think I would say is if the ratings tank next year. If 60 minutes, I mean, again, and maybe that's not what this is

about. Maybe it doesn't matter. Maybe we're just trying to make it. tame news organization that's not going to piss off the president. Maybe that's the only plan. Barry Weiss has made Tony DeCopal a punchline. Like in CBS Even News, like they are putting up for my understanding of it, embarrassing numbers for a show in that time slot that has been on for that long. So any changes that she's made have already redounded to be really, really terrible, right? And so I'm just surprised, like, okay, she ruins another, you know,

staple of your network. I'm just, I'm kind of skeptical of the idea that they'll move her out of there. Yeah, I think she's got as much string as she wants right now. It'd be interesting. I'm grimly fascinated to see what CBS puts up next year for 60 minutes. I was just going to say, like, what do you think season 59 looks like? Certainly, like, first of all, who says yes?

Right. Let's table those three correspondents we don't know about. Major Garrett, what an opportunity for you. You're in the call. There's a whole bunch of people in TV news and you and I know this. And these are not like free press correspondents either. These are television news people who'll be like, hey, Scott Pelley's gone. More opportunity for me.

Good money. I come in and get to the big interviews. Yeah. Great money. All that, you know, the exposure, everything else. I mean, you become one of the most famous, most revered journalist in the world. or you used to be. Like, we don't know that that's actually true.

And Tucker came on right before we jumped on and said that, you know, and I'm sure people that follow this news has heard this before, that Joe Rogan is apparently one of the people that Barry Weiss would like to tool this around. I mean, does that... That was radar online, so let's... But it's no more absurd than anything that's happened so far at CBS. Yeah, yeah. It really isn't.

I mean, it's just... It just... And by the way, the gas lighting that goes on here where you get rid of the executive producer, you get rid of the executive editor, you get rid of multiple correspondence, and then Scott Pelly stands up in a meeting, and you say,

oh, excuse me, sir, you're being very rude. You're being very rude to talk about us that way. Oh, I'm sorry, he's being rude after everybody's been fired at the show. Right.

You get out of here with that stuff. I mean, screw that. That is unbelievable. and this idea that it's all about politeness at the meeting. Yeah. Yeah. These people are out of work. I mean, come on it.

Their work was interfered with. Like, I just, oh, I mean, that just, that kind of stuff. And part of this is like media reporting. You have to be polite, right? There's a certain politeness that we give our subjects that are sometimes perhaps is not deserved. Right. And the other one I hear is like, well, you know, Barry Wise thinks that 60 minutes is stuffy. And, you know, it's not, it's CBS News needs to be dragged into the digital age.

I understand we have to quote a point of view and all that stuff, but what has she done? Name one thing to drag CBS into the digital age. Well, so that's the thing I think that is most annoying and upsetting to me. And look, I mean, we've worked at a lot of media properties, right? And we've seen a lot of layoffs. We've seen a lot of people, you know, just have to leave the business, right? Just had to do something else. And that is the thing that infuriates me the most.

is somebody who has worked under really bad management in a couple of places. And people who know me, they know that one place, they know at least a couple places that I'm referring to. But these are jobs. Like, it's not just like the Scott Pelly of it all or the Sharon Alphonse. It's like the people that were just at CBS News Radio. The people that were working out in the field, these were really good journalism jobs. And they were providing for people and giving, you know, doing really important. important news and somebody can just come in and fuck it all up, man. And that happens over and over again

in journalism. And it's infuriating to me because there's no reason for it. There's no reason to create this sort of havoc in people's lives. Right? Like to do this to people to throw them out into this economy where there's just no get. I mean, you know, Scott Pelly is at the end of the line. John Wertheim, Leslie Stahl, you know, presumably they'll be okay. But it's all these other people, and the other people, the producers and other people that work in that building that are going to lose their jobs are going to have to go. And those are the people that I think that Scott Pelley was also, I mean, he talked about his colleagues as well. But when he stood up in front of those guys and confronted them, I thought about those people, that those are the people that you also need to be standing up for as well because this job is not going to come around again. There's just no way to rebuild this again.

Yes, I completely agree. And I think that's who he is standing up for when he does this. Yeah. It's not for anchors who make a lot of money. Yeah. It's for those people. And look, if she had come in or somebody like her had come in and said, hey, you know, we're just, we're an old television organization. We can't do this anymore.

You know, CBS radio. Again, it feels good to say that, but raise your hand if you've been listening to CBS radio lately. We have to figure out a way to go into the future, right? We have to figure out a way to take CBS News, what we like about it, and make it something that people are going to listen to and interact with in new ways. Like, let's just, let's put aside all of Barry's politics and everything and mismanagement and everything. She doesn't have a plan for that either. Right.

Right. Changing the news anchor, putting handsome Tony in the chair, that's not a plan to modernize CBS. Firing the EP of 60 minutes, that's not a plan to modernize CBS. That's stuff that could have happened in 1985. That's old TV. Changing anchors, firing correspondence, all that stuff. Being mad at 60 minutes. Like that's just stuff that's happened forever.

There's no plan here. She's done nothing. And again, we just keep quoting this like, what's about, you know, modernizing? It's about this stuffy old institution. What has she done to modernize anything? Well, I mean, I think I just, I think we're

a lot of people are being credulous. And again, maybe we should be applying some secular grace here like you said. Like maybe there was. I'm out of secular grace. Yeah. I'm all good. If Ryan is out of secular grace, then we're really,

we're really through the looking glass here. But I mean, like, the thing is right. So you say, okay, I want to modernize all this. Man, 60 minutes just sent out a release last month,

talking about how great everything was. Like it was the, the nation's number, news program. They've gained viewers on TV, which is like they've had they've had a 9% increase right on TV

a famously failing medium apparently, right? They've done well on the internet and it's just like I get that there's something that like there's some sort of future that you envision in which this no longer works but like shouldn't you articulate

that vision or shouldn't you have you should on at least a small scale have some sort of that this works. And you can't point to it. And it just reminds me of everything that is happening in the world, like when Elon Musk took over Twitter, when Jeff Bezos started tearing down Washington Post. And this is, I'm going to go, I'm a Houstonian. Texas is just fucking up the Houston public school system and don't really appear. They have no proof that what they're doing works. And they're just, we just have to believe them that it was time to change and they had to pivot. And I'm just like, I just feel like, I don't know, I mean, obviously nobody coordinated this or maybe, you know, maybe we're not being cynical enough.

But I just feel like we're looking at people just tearing down our institutions for no reason at all. Or maybe the reason is it's in service to Donald Trump, right? Like, so obviously people are saying that, Brian. Are you that cynical? Like, do you think this is all coming down on word from Trump? Does that count a cynical? I mean, word from Trump is one thing. but turning it into an organization that is not going to antagonize Trump as regularly.

I mean, that feels like the obvious plan to me. I don't know how you would argue otherwise. I mean, that's just not what is what's the other thing? And to your greater point, I totally take your point about institutions. If we're just talking about TV news, a plan would be, hey, 60 minutes, big hit. Let's squeeze as much juice out of that as we can while we're, still have a linear TV audience while trying to take baby steps into the future or adult steps into the future by thinking of podcasts and other in other ways reporting other ways we can

translate 60 minutes and make it into something other than a TV brand that's what you would do you wouldn't tear it down right that would be the dumbest thing you could possibly do and we've seen people try this you mentioned Jeff Bezos I'll give you Chris licked at CNN yeah you tell basically half your audience maybe more than half your audience because there's a lot of libs that watch tv news believe it or half or more than half of your audience this isn't the place for you right and guess what you don't replace them with center right viewers the viewers just go away yeah and maybe they don't come back well it's and it's crazy too because i've seen people people that are inclined to give barry white very wise the the um grace that we're not willing to they

say oh you know look at cbs CBS CBS is a median age of its viewers it's like you know oh i saw that it was Caitlin flange and Tweeted that today and I've never I've never said anything sadder than I read a Caitlin Flanagan tweet while I was in Scandinavia but I did read that she said it was 65 for for viewers of 60 minutes and I'm like if you could replace all those with 35 year old viewers center right viewers great but you can't do that right what's going to happen is viewers are just going to go away right and they're never and they're not going to come back and you're going to replace with nobody and then you're like well now what do we do right and

And the crazy thing is, is that 60 minutes has shown you that they have, they've managed to grow like that younger demographic. Like, in that same release, they talk about how it's adult 25 to 54 demographic. It increased by 5% on linear TV, man. So, like, they're doing something there. Like, I don't even know, like, you know, I don't know if it's just a change in the presentation or how they're trying to reach people. But they actually managed to get more young viewers in a way. And the other thing about that, too, is that on that same chart, I think, like, Fox News's median age was, like, 55. Like, it's not that much younger. And I don't ever hear anybody being like, man, Fox News needs to pivot.

You know, their viewership is getting older. They need to do all this and that. Nobody ever says that about Fox News, right? Because presumably the numbers are good. Well, shit, you can say that about 60 minutes, too. Totally. And it's the problem with everybody in television. This is not, it's not a 60. And the thing is, well, we're just trying to get younger. That's what everybody in. TV is trying to do right now. Right. This is the problem of television. Can we say a word about Scott Pelley before? Oh, please. Texas takes on.

That's still a mind-blowing fact to me. Scott Pelley seems like he was manufactured at the TV anchor factory where they create men with stiff upper lips. Yeah. He feels old-fashioned even in the context of a very old-fashioned TV show, 60 Minutes. Absolutely. the way he talks, that clipped kind of speech. I suspect if we went to the most diehard,

65-year-old viewers of that show and said, what are your three favorite Scott Pelly pieces ever? They might have trouble coming up with specifics, coming up with, I feel a lot of the media writers writing about this today. I'd love to quiz them on that. Well, you know, there's that one he did that time. He went into combat, whatever it is.

The thing about it is, he was an inheritor and he's put it this way of an institution. Yeah. That was created people by people like Mike Wallace and Harry Reisner and, you know, Steve Croft, who didn't seem like he came from the Anchor factory. He seemed like he came from the cigar lounge, you know,

right? They all, every 60 minutes, anchor had a little bit of a different vibe, a different aesthetic. But what it created was this idea that you were in good hands, that journalism was being done the old-fashioned way, that there was real reporting.

And, you know, some of it with news correspondence is genuine journalism, genuine bravery, entrepreneurial spirit. Some of it is just a vibe. Yeah. Scott Pelly had all of that. That's right. He really did. And he's just such a fascinating figure.

And for him to go out like this, to stand up at a meeting and be like, you, sir, are taking a dump on my television show. And I'm out of here. Like, that's it. I mean, what a way to go. That is the dream. That's what you want, like, if you're going to be able to do it. Well, the dream maybe is still being employed, but, you know, if you had to go. If you got to go, you got to go.

Okay, last thing, Brian, before I let you go here. Please. If Barry makes the call, are you going to take it? Didn't you ask me this last week? Well, I said, no, no, no, no. Last week I said if you were going to get offered 150, if you were going to be Barry, right? But now I'm saying now Barry is like, look, we've got some openings, Brian. We know that you'd be one of the best interviewers in the business.

You know, we want to bring you in and see what you can do here to hip up 60 minutes. Would you do it? It's if I can consider this absurd question completely seriously, the answer would be absolutely not. Absolutely not. And by the way, can you imagine saying that? Yeah. Do you, Joel, you're going to go work at 60 minutes? Offer your job as a correspondent.

Are you going? I would think that I was getting punked, that this was all the ruse to get me to quit my good job to put me into unemployment. But if Barry and Nick Bilton got on a Zoom, like, no, no, we're dead serious. We love what you've been doing at the press box. You're not going to 60 minutes. I mean, I couldn't, first of all, I wouldn't believe them, but also like how, again, this is the thing that they need to think about. Who can trust you? Who can trust you out there? Who would want to work for you under these circumstances? Like we've never heard this kind of turmoil. I can't remember this kind of turmoil, any network, let alone. 60 minutes. They're the, they're the boring clock guys after football. See, that's where I will, one place I will contradict here. 60 minutes has been a powder keg for its entire existence. Okay. Well, see, there you go. You have the back on that. I mean, they made a movie about this with the insider. Okay. You go read any of these books. Those guys were always grousing about something.

That's fair. But it was never, it never got to the point where it's like, oh, you could have zero out of seven correspondents. You could murder the television program. And really, it's not just, okay we'll get back to normal we'll start chasing people down the streets holding documents up again come back here sir see me one more moment of your time it's for real this time yeah that's right it's for real and that's our fearless leader ryan uh thanks for interrupting your scandinavian excursion to do this i feel better getting all that off my chest i'm glad i'm glad i'm glad you uh made us the your your first stop i'm sharing your can you imagine if i've been in the extra legroom section of coach just yelling all that at my seatmate yesterday

Or tomorrow. Wait, did you push your flight back for this? No, I didn't. I don't think tomorrow morning. Can you imagine if I was just unleashing on, you know, some poor woman who was just, you know, tripling around in Europe tomorrow? She was like, why are you so interested in the media? I mean, again, that text message I got from yesterday, one of the best text messages I've

gotten in 2026. So thank you, man. And I can't wait to see you back stateside next week. You got it. More Luke Worm text about the media. See then, Joel. All right. See you, buddy.

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And at that moment, the win probability for San Antonio peaked at 92.6%. It wasn't enough. The Knicks ran off 18 to 4 run over the next three minutes to close the gap and went on to still the first game of the series, 105-95. 12 straight playoff win for the Knicks who have won those games by an unprecedented margin of victory. On the press box today, we brought out my dude, ESPN's Vinnie Goodwill, who has been witness to this historically dominant stretch. And, you know, today he's been gracious enough to stop arguing with Stephen A. Smith long enough to come on and chop it up with us, man. Vinny, what's good, man? Appreciate you joining us, bro.

Hey, appreciate you having me, ma. Okay. So let's start here. Was Wednesday night's victory the best playoff game of this run? Oh, that's a great question. I think when you... the opponent compared to the Washington generals that we were watching in Philadelphia and Cleveland and Cleveland. Yeah. I think you mentioned them walking them down from being down 15. At that point,

I'm going between my seat and a green room that has Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith in it. And I'm just, I want to hear their, I want to hear their real time sort of observations of the game. And at that point, I'm like, I feel pretty comfortable. All right, this game's about the end. let me go out to my seat and catch the scene. Let me catch and see what's going on. Wow. Before you knew it, before you knew it, they were storming bad. And that's been kind of the story of this next team.

They get down, especially in the playoffs. They gotten down to Cleveland and in the first game, down 22 points in the fourth quarter. And Joel, it just walked them down. And they do it so quickly. It's not like a spectacular thing. The only spectacular thing they're doing is like passing the ball around. Like, that's the only thing that looks like. like something. Everything that just looks very methodical, very adult-like. And you're playing,

you got a team full of adults with the Knicks and the team full of kids with the Spurs. And the adults came home with the big piece of chicken last night. Well, I was going to say, because you're saying that you thought, oh, man, they're about to wrap it up here. Because you've seen this enough. You know, you know better than that. Because even me watching it from home, I'm just like, I don't know, man. I still kind of feel like the Knicks in the game. Like, I never really thought they were out of it, right? Because you tell me, and I'm sure you like, yeah. The Spurs didn't. look like they did against OKC.

And again, OKC, defending champion, they play hard as shit. It is very hard to get good shots against OKC. They had a lot of depth. You know, they lost their second and fourth best players for work. But they're a very difficult team to play. But it didn't feel like the Knicks were struggling in the way that it looked like the Thunder did. Like they didn't seem like they had the effort in the same way.

Did you feel that too? Yeah. I mean, look, we know that San Antonio built themselves to beat and compete with OKC. Like, even if they didn't expect to be here, this season, like in year one, like they didn't even make the playoffs last year, but you know that there's a team that you're chasing. And everybody in the West is going to be chasing Oklahoma City.

That does not subsequently mean just because you can be a team that had a 70 win pace that you can beat a New York Knicks team by all the statistical measures before we enter the playoffs is not the same caliber of team. But the Knicks have done something over the course of these last, what, month and a half, two months?

That completely defies everything that we've seen before. So yeah, my only thought was San Antonio walked down Oklahoma City on the road twice. They're not going to have the same letdowns as the completely unsirious Cleveland Cavaliers and Philadelphia 76ers. But the Knicks put a clown suit on them too. Like there comes a point where I have to say,

okay, it's not just the competition. Because sometimes it can be the competition brings out and makes you look better than what you are. And sometimes the competition doesn't matter because you are exactly. the version of your habits. You are the result of your habits and the NICs have generated very good habits over the past couple weeks.

So it doesn't matter if they're better than the Spurs. They're playing better than the Spurs. They're playing better than the Spurs in game one. Well, and I was going to say, too, the competition thing is interesting because you're right. Like, the Spurs are a step up in class for the Knicks. But it'd be one thing if they were eking out these games

and winning by two or three, but they're doing exactly what a great dominant team would do, which is kicking their ass. Like, they're not, you know what I'm saying? like they're beating teams and even last night they won by double digits like somehow they ended up with a 10 point win you know this is crazy like the fact like you said the fact that this was a close game or a two point game with what three minutes left and on the road and went by double digits like you have to look up and be like oh they continue to do this this this is seven straight road games that they've done this and none of the games have been close none of them right right

I want us to play this really interesting moment during Carl Anthony Towns' post-game interview with the inside the NBA crew. I don't know what it was, but I just felt a calm and a piece that I don't know had to become from the woman above. So I felt really confident about today. I felt good. You know, I felt like a kid. It felt like it was just fun out here. This is something that as a kid you always dream about. You always hope that you just hope to be an NBA player, let us.

alone to be in the NBA finals. And all day, it was just a weird feeling. It felt like I was a kid getting ready to go play my Saturday AAU games and Sunday AAU games. And in a way, I felt like I was seeing her in the stands. And it was just, it was fun. It was really fun. And it was really comforting because, you know, game one of the NBA finals, you're told

how the pressure is going to be and everything is. And I don't know. It felt like a certain presence was here that was very common. comforting and very loving. And I felt like I could have fun out here in game one at NBA finals, which is the weirdest thing because you would expect to have the pressure at the highest. And so in that clip, the woman that Carl Anthony Towns is referring to is his mom who passed away during the COVID pandemic back in 2020.

And so, yeah, obviously it was a very meaningful, very, just very touching moment. But the thing that I want to start with a couple things here, Vinny. First, Kat said he felt comfortable out there. which is really surprising to me because Zach Lowe, for instance, our colleague here at the Ringer, said it was the most intense atmosphere he'd ever been in.

So what, how do you, what was the atmosphere like to you? And what do you think the hell, how in the hell was it comfortable for Kat to play in that? You know what's funny because, Joe, you've been in stadiums. And I'm sure it's a little bit different

in stadiums than arenas just because stadiums are so cavernous, right? Yeah, yeah. Where you feel pockets of the atmosphere. here, you feel like you're in it. Like when I was doing a show, like a streaming show, court side right before the game started, like right before the National Anthem,

and you could legit feel like 20,000 people on top of you. Very rarely spill that in the basketball game, but you felt it. And it felt thick. The air legitimately felt thick. And it's almost like your, not to be funny, it was almost like your eyes were in HD

in a different way, in a different way than they were. before when you're looking, you're like, man, why does everything look and feel so vivid? It's because your senses are so heightened by everything. And that's before the game. That's before everything is actually going. So once the game starts, you feel it even more. And there's this juxtaposition of pockets of Knicks fans who aren't wearing those goofy fiesta shirts or whatever it is.

Like, you see it, right? So you know who the Knicks fans are. So for Carl Towns to be comfortable in it, this is how I think of it. they've gone in one series in Boston, right? Carl Anthony Towns has played in a big time series against Nicola Yokinj and the Denver Nuggets. These San Antonio Spurs don't have the same pedigree. These are just, this is just another team that they're going to play. It's the finals is the biggest thing that they'll play in,

but they know they got a much bigger stage to worry about game three of the finals Monday at the crib, especially because, you know, some invited guests might be showing up. I mean, look, man, I've heard. I've heard. Well, okay. Well, so you say that, how many Knicks fans do you think were in there? Because I could hear, like, there were a couple times during the game. I'm like, am I tripping?

Or am I hearing cheers, like, cheers for the Knicks that were, like, actually audible on TV? Like, was it that many? So let's say that if it's 20,000 people, I'm not even sure if it's a 20,000 foot, you know, 20,000 seat arena. I think that maybe three or four thousand it's probably 20 maybe 15 to 20% Nick fans

because they were loud at the end Like you know what is Joe Once it became apparent That the Spurs were going to lose The Spurs fans started leaving The Knicks fans Stayed

So you could hear it And you could see it As you're walking through You're like man It's a lot of y'all hear I want to go home Yeah Were they doing that bong bong shit there too?

They were turning up. No, they don't do the bing bong stuff. Bing bong chian. They do the let's go nix and then they tap you on your shoulder. And I don't know about you, Joe. I don't like being necessarily accosted publicly. I don't know you because I'm trying to walk somewhere and you get tense like you're going to turn around and swing. Everybody on the internet don't love us, man.

You know what I'm saying? And most people are cool, but they're like, you pick, you hate our team. don't hate your team. I don't care about your team. But they're loud, though. I get to them. They travel because like our buddy, Beaumonti Jones has always said, it's an easier trip if you're a New Yorker to even get on the plane from New York, get put up for a couple days, and buy a ticket to come here as opposed to paying those outrageous prices and that's a trip. That's a very good point. And speaking, yeah, because the second thing about this cat thing

is that you've been saying this for a while now that he's the most important guy on the Knicks. You've been saying it for at least two rounds. You said it in the Eastern Conference finals, and then you said it coming into the finals. And look, our mutual friend, Beaumani, like, I pissed him off last night. I'm antagonizing him because I'm like,

it's going to be real funny to me when Kat gets the championship that Jimmy Butler has been trying to get for his whole life, right? Yeah. Oh, no. That's going to be funny. So, Beau, God, I could tell you was getting agitated with me last night. But what is going on with, first of all, you've got a chance to cover him for the year.

And so, like, what is going on with Kat? Does he hear that noise? He claims he doesn't. Okay. And to some degree, I'm sure that there's a level of, I can't hear everything, but he's slow. Like, he understands what's traditionally been said about him. You know, like, we had, me and him had this thing a few years ago where he was in Minnesota and there was a game seven against Denver. and they beat Denver on the road

and him and Anthony Edwards are on the podium and I'm like, hey, usually teams are not supposed to do this. They're not supposed to lose. They're not supposed to win and beat a championship team on the road in the game seven. And they were basically like,

how long do you want us to lose? We've been losing for 20 years. I'm like, y'all didn't lose them for 20 years. You know what I mean? So then they lose the next round and he's like, and I said to him so now do you understand what I was trying to say? And he said,

He wasn't trying to hear it. He antagonizing him, dog. You antagonizing, man. Come on. No, no. I just wanted. And they hadn't gone through real pain yet. So now, when we're around company, he will say, yeah, this is the person.

I couldn't stand him when he said it, but I get it now because I can't wait to prove you wrong. Okay. Okay. And I think that's, and I think to some degree, Joel, that's where he's at, is the criticism and the critiques that have bounced off of him. It has to harden you a little bit, right? And he's turned into this play. Think about this. He's playing in New York City for the New York Knicks

with that franchise and that city has turned the most fan favorite dudes into villains. And he's handled it largely with grace, even though he's been there to be a sidekick. And I'm sure he didn't think of himself as a sidekick. And now he's the most integral part on both ends of the floor. And you've got to face Victor Wimba Diama and hold your own and not do the Sheila E. Bongo's on his head. Do you know how hard that is for him?

to fight his instincts. Oh, bro. Like, this, the thing that I was thinking about is that, I mean, he had, I think he had four files last night. But, like,

I just would like, like, what, what did Mike Brown or Jalen Brunson unlocking him to make him play? Like, because even like defensively, like that was the complaint about him previously,

right? He didn't get the same effort on defense that he wasn't tough, all this other stuff. What has changed with him, like on the floor, too, that what are they doing that has made him look like this? You know what's fun?

sometimes it's good old-fashioned peer pressure. Yeah. Like you don't want to be the one dude that's dragging the rear. You know what I mean? Like he played with Jimmy Butler and him and Jimmy Butler didn't get along. But he played with Anthony Edwards. And Ant was basically kind of on this, Hey man, you cold.

I'm lifting you up. Ant would always say, Carl is the man, even though we all know that Ant is that guy. And I think it was psychological to make sure I'm pumping you up. I'm building you up. The Knicks don't necessarily do. that here. The Knicks are kind of like, hey, man, fall in line, we got something serious to do.

We got some serious business going on, and he doesn't want to be the guy that's holding everything up. And after game three of that Atlanta series, they lose two games in a row at the last second, by one point. They're falling behind two games to one. There's this finals or else edict. There's this coach who's brought in to replace Tom Thibito. And finally, they decided to throw everything on the table. Carl, you want the ball? What's you doing here? And that's unlocks thing that we've seen from Carl Towns who's been a tremendous passer, a tremendous score, and if you want

to laugh at Bo, both sent me a text last night. He said, the only person who can stop Carl is Carl. And that's when he's on the floor of Victor Winbenyama. So everybody knows the skill set. It's just a matter, is he going to do it? And I think he's made a decision that it doesn't have to look in the way that he thought it was going to look.

It's going to look in a way that's the most effective because he actually does want to win. All right. We can't talk about this game without talking about Jalen Brunson, too. who Jalen had a rough start, hurt his knee in the first quarter, ankle in the second, and at one point he was only five of 18 from the field, but then, of course, he picked it up, closed things out late, finished with 30 points, 13 into fourth.

And I saw some crazy stats floating around about him last night, including one from my guy Josh Dubot at the Associated Press. Jalen Brunson, his average 8.2 points per game in the fourth quarter in OT in the playoffs with the Knicks. The only person to average more is Michael Jordan with 9.3. What has this postseason run showcased about his stature in place in the game? You know what, Joel, it's not even so much this one. Because this one, they've been running through everybody, right?

But in general, what we think about Jalen Brunson is, to me, he's the playoff riser. Like there's certain players, including a guy that you know and that you adore, that you will forever defend, he's not a playoff riser. He needs to get help, man. I really think he needs to get help, but that's neither he or not there. You were talking about James Harden for people that don't know.

But yeah. See, you know, Joe got a thing for Wayward's souls, y'all. He just, he just came up. I believe in defending people who, you know what I'm saying? I don't like to see people get picked on, you know? And, you know, I feel sorry for James. But, and it transferred over to cat. But, like, Jalen, I was just like, you know, like, he, I mean, I know there's this

underdog narrative about him, but, like, his dad was an NBA player. He won the national championship of Villanova. Like, he's cold. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's something different, though, for him to be this size, right? Yeah, yeah. He's left-handed.

He's physical. He plays the game, to some degree, he plays the game more like a power forward than a point guard sometimes. That's true. Because he's such a bully. And because with Carl Towns doing a lot of things early, Jalen Brunson is a lot of fresher. So when you talk about what it's done for his stature, there's only two players in the history of the game. I'm not saying that he's in that category. I'm saying there's two players in the history of basketball who have been the defined.

number one options at six two or shorter on a championship team. Isaiah Lord Thomas and Stefan Curry. And those guys are number two and number three on my point guard list. I'm not saying Jalen Brunton is going to rise to that level. I'm saying that Jalen Brunton putting himself in the conversation of being the guy at that height to lead a team to a championship. That puts him from an accomplishment status in a rarefied air. Like he took 30 shots last night.

Right. Nobody cares. You know how many times we criticize Alan Iverson? Oh. Taking 30 shots and scoring 20, 20, 20, whatever it was. It's chucking. But there comes a point where efficiency is the enemy of winning. And sometimes you just got to get the shots up.

Sometimes you've just got to play. And I think that's the one thing that Jalen Brunson is good at is whatever the numbers are look like, the numbers are going to look like. But he's dedicated to winning. And there's not many players, I think, that I would trust more in the fourth quarter of a game. Not historically, but just right now. Yeah. He is in a bag.

that when his career is over, he's going to be like, man, I was that dude for a period. Well, the dude for right now, and coming into the series, everybody had kind of done the thing where they crown wimby. It was like, all right, it's going to be his league. You know, this was the, you know, the finals are going to be, you know, the aftermath or whatever. You know what I'm saying? It was just going to be, you know, the dessert that they've already had dinner. Yeah, it was a coronation. Yeah. All they got to do is do this. And he came out there, man, and I was just surprised. Like, he, and Stan Van Gundy said something, like,

he thought this was the worst game he played this season or something along those lines. What did you? I told someone, it looked like he had baby deer legs at points in the game. What did you see out of Wemby last night? I didn't see, and I don't know if people are going to make the comparison.

Oh, the Knicks were ready, the Spurs weren't. It's not that simple, right? I thought he was tired. I thought, like, from an emotional standpoint, man, it takes so much out of you. to go through a playoff game, let alone a playoff series when you've never done it before. Like to, like, we don't explain it enough as a media that how much is required. So when they beat Oklahoma City in a game seven, it takes a long time to get Oklahoma City off you.

Like they are still smelling Oklahoma City's cologne. You know what I'm saying? They walking in the crib, love should have brought you home last night. They smell like Oklahoma City when they're playing the next. Like, that's what I think happened to them last night. was they're still dealing with the residue of that series, and he was tired. Yeah, baby dear legs, but also Carl Towns is 260 pounds, beating on you. O.G. and Obie, low to the ground, beaten on you.

He was being guarded by Chet Holmgren. Yeah, man. And he'll operate on the same part of skinny corner. Chet can't do nothing. He can't check with him. He may. And you've been playing every other day, Joe, for the past two weeks. at some point there comes a regression

to where your body has to recalibrate and I think that's just what it was. I think he's going to come back with a vengeance on game two. Okay, okay. All right, and I'm going to close out on this because I'm jealous to you, man. This is your first year covering the Knicks.

You know what I'm saying? Maybe you're the good luck charm or whatever. But the Knicks are guaranteed a split, right? And I saw you say that you thought they could still game two. but game three Madison Square Garden. What do you think is going to be like there? A sou. For a number of reasons.

A zoo. Okay. I don't, I don't know how early I would have to actually get down to Madison Square Garden to ensure that I get in. Because those people from basically, like, and you've been to New York before, you know how those people walk around.

How they walk around, they chest out and everything else? And then what if it's do the right thing hot? Oh, man. Agitated. Stinking in the streets. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

All that stuff. Like Radio Rahim going to be out there. I think it's going to be the most desperate atmosphere that you could eat. Whether it was one one or two old, right? I think it's going to be a pretty desperate atmosphere because they've never been this realistically close to a championship since 1994. Like they split the first two games in Houston in 94 and then what they do in game three, they lost game three. So I'm not saying it sets up for disappointment.

I'm saying the New York Knicks fans, who you cannot truly appreciate until you spend more time in New York, you get it. Oh, you're not elitist. Y'all just really love the game. They love it. And y'all just think that everybody is supposed to love y'all when we got our own places to love.

You know what I mean? Like that sort of thing. But that is going to be seeping in. I'm wondering with all the high prices, though, who paying these prices? Man. I mean, and then people got to pay for the World Cup too, man. There's a lot.

I mean, I mean, World Cup is going to be starting next week. So, yeah, I'm just like, who are the people with money right now? Yeah, I don't, I mean, it's people with money. I'm just trying to figure out what type of basketball fan you are. If it's 20,000 New Yorkers with that type of money. I mean, that would be the place where they'd be able to pull it together, though, right? They could get that, that right. Anyway, anyway, but well, look, Vinnie.

of ESPN first take, you know. And I told you, and I told Bo this, too, man. And I really, I meant this. I was like, I saw you on TV, man. I was like, oh, Vinny's a star dog. So I'm just really happy for you, bro. And I'm happy you get to experience this championship run. It's amazing.

So thanks for coming on the press box, brother. All right, of course. Anytime, man. Please come back. We'll have you on after the finals, all right? Yeah, let's talk some media stuff. I got some media takes. Oh, shit.

Let's do it. I'm putting you on the list. So I'm going to hold you to it, okay? Yes, sir. All right. This episode is brought to you by L'Oreal Group. Beauty is a powerful force that moves us. That's why L'Oreal Group has built a business that is inclusive at its heart

with 100% of its brands, championing diversity. With 25,000 professional opportunities for people under 30 worldwide and 54% of leading positions held by women, diversity is a strength that helps L'Oreal Group create the best beauty products for all people. Visit L'Oreal.com to learn more. So as we record this segment Thursday afternoon, California is still counting up ballots from its Tuesday primary. But we know a couple of things already. Los Angeles mayor, Karen Bass, will advance to the November runoff will show likely face former reality star Spencer Pratt, a Republican whose endorsement from Trump he hasn't accepted yet.

And at the top of the ticket, Republican, former Fox News host and British political advisor Steve Hilton and longtime Democrat. Democratic political, Xavier Beseta, are currently in the top two spots needed to advance to the November election for governor. Today, to talk about those races and the general state of things in California, we've brought on my dude, L.A. Times columnist Gustavo Arano. Maybe the voice of Southern California? I don't know. I'm just, we can start that. This is the thing. The tag you put in your column. And a Pulitzer Prize finalist in 2025 for opinion writing, Gustavo, was supposed to be. good man. What's up, Joel? Always great to talk to you, man. Oh, man. Likewise. Likewise. I'm glad you could do this because I've just been fascinated about what's going on in California. And I know people that Iowa, Texas and Florida, all this stuff, but like California has some weird shit going on.

And I'm going to start with this column you published Wednesday where you wrote, anyone who wants to win in Los Angeles needs to realize that anti-establishment sentiment is in the air. Why? Cristobo. Angelinos have been frustrated with the state of the city for years now. Really started with the pandemic. Exploded in 2022 with that racist audio leak scandal

that upended politics in L.A. really forever has continued with the whole. homelessness crisis. Some of it of LA's, you know, all of these crises, some of it's L.A. is making, some of it comes from the feds. And of course, last year, the tragedy of the Palisades fire, which was in L.A. city limits. And then on the other side of Los Angeles, the eaten fire, which was in Altadena, which

is not the city of Los Angeles. That's unincorporated Los Angeles County. But of course, in Southern California, everyone's an Angelino, unless you're from Orange County like me. Right. You know, so I'm not going to be claiming that. So people are just pissed like, you know, on all ends. And so it has and that's one thing that I think is unappreciated when we talk about Los Angeles, the archetype of the angry Angelino, whether they were fighting back against the rise of black political power in South L.A., Latino political power, whether it was the San Fernando Valley, which historically has been one of the wealthier suburbs of L.A.

trying to secede from L.A. the city 25 years ago. What I find fascinating right now, though, is that the anger is not just angry white guys anymore. It is a lot of people who just want change. But historically, that anger has come, at least politically has come from the right. Now you're seeing it come from the left as well. So on the right, of course, it's being represented by Spencer Pratt, but also you have the march of the local chapter of the Democratic Socialists of America making big move. So this is as someone who covers this stuff, I love it. as someone who loves a history of it,

I see where these trends are, and it's someone just living through it, like, damn, it's crazy times right now. Well, I was going to say, and look, and you mentioned this in a live blog you posted about how many people, and I don't know how many of these people live in L.A. I know some of them do,

but like the free press has written a bunch of stuff, Talk It praising Pratt, the Atlantic has written some stuff, you know, bolstering the Pratt campaign. What is, so, like, is the outside media Are they accurately capturing the appeal of Pratt or what is going on there, you think? They are, but they're also misjudging the moment because for them, it's an easy story, right? This bro freaking reality star, The Hills.

And, you know, last couple of years was all about crystals and hummingbirds. And then honestly, though, becomes a legitimate candidate in the sense that he had every reason to run because, he lost his home in the palisades fire. His family lost another home in the palisades fire, but also just kind of just out there. And so the appeal of someone like Spencer to run, yeah, you were going to cover it one way or another. But then I think what the media is also getting is,

and the media is getting it, but I think this is where they're misjudging it. They're treating him as like this Messiah that's going to bring Los Angeles back. And this is where I think a lot of these dispatches, I mean, Vanity Fair, Puck Magazine, Peter Hamby there, Atlantic, you mentioned. A lot of these people, they're only getting a certain part of L.A. For me, I don't think they've ever, I think they think the east side is not the Latino part, but the hipster part.

And they've never been in South L.A., except it was the 105 freeway on the way to L.A.X. The people they're talking about, that's not the Los Angeles, I know. And that's not to say that they're not onto something because, yeah, all swaths of the city are angry. There are a lot of these parachutists. And that's the other thing. Some of these are Angelinos. But again, their idea of Los Angeles is that, oh, L.A. used to be like a Paul Thomas Anderson movie, like a licorice pizza.

And now it's turned into just complete and utter hell. And that's just not true at all. Well, so a lot of people have made the comparison between Spencer Pratt and Donald Trump, right? It's ostensibly, like, a confused Republican, right? because there's not a real, like, political ideology it work here. And, you know, he was kind of a, I mean, I think, you know, I don't think it's a stretch to say that for years,

he was kind of a reality joke kind of guy. You know what I mean? Like, nobody was thinking about him in this regard. When did you have to start taking him seriously? Honestly, from the start. Okay. I, because I've seen this story before, I have been covering the rise of Latino Trump supporters

since the start since 2016. Like just covering politics, you see personalities. You see the sentiment. I mean, honestly, I'm not going to, I'm not going to say I'm someone special. I just writing all the time. I'm out there on the street. I'm talking to people and I'm seeing the bigger picture. And I'm not letting what I think should be cloud what is actually happening.

So when Spencer ran, I'm like, all right, he's going to have impossible to defeat narrative. one narrative that he lost everything in the palisades fire and he's angry. So right off the bat, you're going to get a lot of like the who are the higher likely voters Pacific Palisades, the wealthy area of West Los Angeles. Those are the people who go out to vote. So right off that, you're going to grab that. Then though, he's saying he's not, he's a Republican. He told Alex Michelson on CNN that the reason he became a Republican is because he believed in gun rights because he needed, you know, he started getting a lot of threats and this before the palisades fire. Okay. Whatever you're or.

origin story is, fine. But where he really latched on, and this is where I'd say he is very Trumpian, is he started exority, excoriating, how do you say that damn word, demeaning, libeling, unhoused people, started calling them zombies. I mean, horrible, horrible things. It's basically the same way Trump has demonized undocumented immigrants, he has gone after homeless people. And that's where I knew, like, okay, this is going to be where he gets his multicultural

coalition because all parts of LA that have unhoused people on the streets, some of the nastiest commentary on them are coming from black and brown communities. And I think it's, well, but it is happening. And so as and by meanwhile, by the way, the Democrats, oh, Spencer Pratt the hills really. He's just doing it to sell bugs. He's just doing it to boost his, you know, clout. And I'm like, no, you're making the exact same mistake you all made with Trump. And now here we are.

We don't know that California is notorious for counting its votes late. Those votes tend to go left more than anything. Third place, the person was in third place right now, Nithia Rahman, maybe she could make it out there. I'm just not calling it because as I kept telling people, once you uncork populist sentiment, it is very hard to put back in because it starts spreading. Like, you know, it just starts spreading. It's just going to start spreading. I'm not going to say wildfire because it's too close to home. but it just starts spreading and it is hard to break.

As you've mentioned and things you've written, Pratt isn't talking to media, right? Like, oh, he's not talking to the long-handle. He's talking to. He's talking to. He's talking to. I was going to say so, like, what is going on there? Like, how close has anybody at the time gotten to talking to him? And do you think that's a sustainable approach?

My colleague Noah Haggerty has talked to him in the past because he covers, He covered the aftermath of the Palisades Fire and other stuff. He's part of our great environmental team. And then he did talk to us on election night, but it was part of the media scrum. But he has repeatedly refused comment from all my colleagues. Better than that, he has lambasted us when we do right stuff about him. When the other Noah Goldberg, who covered City Hall, wrote the piece saying like, oh, yeah, Spencer says that he's living.

this trailer on his lot in in palisades on his line palisades no he's actually been staying in Santa Barbara County oh he uh Spencer did this whole video just trash talking him uh just for for me the the only mention I've gotten he's retweeted videos AI generated he retweeted an AI generated video making fun of me calling me a sellout

wearing a Che Guevada shirt which come on man every and if you actually know me you know my My Latino revolutionary is Emiliano Zapata, and all scored by a salsa soundtrack, which, hey, the, the, the, but my critique of that video, you didn't get how I dress. I don't wear T-shirts.

I don't wear jeans. Well, if I wear jeans, I'm wearing it like, like, you know, cowboyed up. And again, I'm not going to wear a Che Guevada t-shirt. You put too much hair on me, but you made me skinnier than I am, so I appreciate it.

So he retweeted that, which I'm like, all right, cool. At least I know Spencer's paying attention to me, but it is not sustainable because I, I think in this era where people do not like the mainstream media, it's going to get you a certain amount of people. But it's like, what are you afraid of, Spencer? What are you trying to run from? And look, I am not biased.

I'm not going to go in with a hatchet job. All these politicians are always afraid of that. For us at the times, we just want to ask certain questions. And some colleagues of mine are going to ask specific questions about their beats. Others are just going to ask, you know, just different things. Right. Well, so all that, like, and then, you know, Spencer, he's doing a lot of that stuff, you know, using social media to, I guess, sort of degrade the conversation or the discourse around this. Very, very familiar game plan.

But why is it, it's effective? So, like, I'm just kind of curious, why isn't, why aren't people lining up behind the incumbent mayor? Because I think, and you tell me if I'm wrong about this, Karen Bass is the first incumbent to have to go through this runoff and, like, you know, How many years, 20, 30 years or something? 20 years, yeah. 20 years. So what is going on? Why are people frustrated with Karen Bastain?

Like, why are they, you know, she's suffering. Yeah, let's be honest. A big part of it is because of Missajenoir. She is a black woman. There has always been a big segment of the Angelino populat political class that has never liked her that has always mocked her for coming from South L.A., from being a powerful black woman. is some critiques against powerful black women.

Hello, that's like the American way. So that's a start. But she's also messed up. Her being in Ghana while the palisades fire, she's already said it's the biggest regret of her career. I think she was, I don't fault her for that. And I wrote a column right immediately after that.

It's like, I don't fault her for that. I, you know, where I would fault her is like there's been other stuff that happened. For instance, my colleagues at the time, another one, Lechukhijan. She wrote about how there was, allegations that when there was a basically a report card from the Los Angeles fire department about what happened that she ordered that it be rewritten in order so it doesn't come off as bad as what it was actually what actually happened.

People have felt that her approach to homelessness, the homelessness crisis hasn't been fast enough. And then the other big thing that has really popped up, you know, and this is something that all of us have to deal with in the media, just Hollywood. Like there has been a dramatic drop in jobs in Hollywood. There's been all these issues. So everyone wants to blame the incumbent on that. And it's really bad. Karen, she is on top.

So she's going to make it into the general election. But as of us talking right now, she only has 36% of the electorate, which means two thirds of Angelinos do not want her at this moment as the next mayor. So it is tough. But the one thing I do say about folks who say, oh, Karen, And this is where, again, the national media does not understand this. They see these numbers that are like, she's gone. It's going to be Spencer or Nithier or whatever.

But Karen knows how to fight. There was a line that I wrote something. Something like the reason the game stays in the game is because they know how the game works. And it is still a game in Los Angeles. The people she has lined up against around her. Like these are some like labor unions, like big time activists all across the valley. Now they're going to double down on that because now they get to say, hey, you want a maga crystal guy to be your guy?

No, like, you got to go with Karen. It's just tough too because, I mean, you're right. I mean, Spencer has got, you know, whatever the charisma of being reality, he's got the anger behind him, right? And in comparison, and you tell me if I'm wrong off the base on this, I've seen Mayor Bass talk before. I've interviewed her before. And she was on higher learning with my colleague Van Lathan about a month ago.

She's not a great retail politician, is he? Like, it's like she's not, you know what I mean? I just kind of feel like maybe there's just not in a time when people are mad. She comes off a little flat. Is that fair? She's earnest. That's the problem. We do not like earnest politicians.

She is coming, she's always come from a good place. I mean, her story is amazing. She was, you know, she worked in emergency rooms in South L.A. When it was bad, both with, you know, murders and the crack epidemic. She and other, like she and other activists down in South LA created this famous nonprofit called Community Coalition that rose after the uprisings in 92. And so she has always been about creating coalitions, multicultural coalitions, multiracial. And also her family's a blended family. You know, her stepchildren who she calls her children, they're her children.

They're of Mexican-American heritage. Their father was the father of her biological daughter, who was Mexican. African American as well. She really represents that a Los Angeles in many ways, but she is not a, you know, she is not a fire breather. That's never been her thing. Her thing is like, no, I build coalitions. I get the work done. I've never found her boring. Have I found her inspiring? Not really. Now you compare her to someone like Spencer. And look, Spencer, we know this. Like, if you're going to be on television, you better know how to spit out things fast, spit out things that stick and then do it again and do it on command. And that's that's why Spencer has been doing so good.

That's why Trump did what he did. That's why Schwarzenegger was able to win the way he has. So it'll be interesting, though, to see how the debates roll out because they did have one debate where Spencer, Karen and Nithia Rahman and the other main candidate all came out together. Nithia just bombed. She was just tongue-tied the entire time. Karen, you know, Karen had to play a little bit of defense. Was she, like, soaring? Not really, but she won.

Because when Spencer did try to go after her, like, she stood her ground. That's the thing. In Spanish, we say, no se deja. Like, when you say of someone that no se deca, literal translation is they don't allow it to happen. In other words, they stand their ground and they pushed back, and that's what Karen did. But Spencer, he fucking won it. He fucking won it because he was funny. He, his thing, and this is what his rivals and his haters need to realize.

His schick, yes, he is channeling the angry Angelino, but what saves him overall, he does, like, a bros will be brosing. Like, oh, I said something wrong. Oops, sorry, man. Let me do something else. Oh, ha, ha, ha, like, do it. They, they, you know, one of the moderators during that debate, it was NBC4, they basically, basically said, oh, like, thank you for directing traffic. And Spencer just like, oh, shucks, that's just me.

That wins. That wins on television. Like, I wasn't going to say, like, oh, you know, you were terrible. Like, no, you have to be honest about those things. And so that's something that's Karen going to, Karen's going to have to, like, you're not going to see Karen become another Karen. Karen's always going to be Karen, good Karen, not bad Karen, of course. And so it's going to be interesting.

And then one final thing with that dynamic between Spencer and Karen, again, Spencer, knows what it hits. So he has been referring to her as basura, basura being trash because, you know, bass basura. And is it cheap? Absolutely. Do you remember it? Damn straight you do. Right. It's good. It's a good line. It's a good. Unfortunately, it's a good line. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. He, like the stuff, the stuff where he's been good at, he's been good at. And I think so the national media just gets enamored with that and they're not calling out the bad stuff. And that's what I've been doing in my columnna for the time. It's just like one of the things that I say, it's like,

I'm not so much afraid of Spencer. I don't think he's like the devil that way people are going to portray him. But a lot of his, like his most ardent supporters, oh, they are just bad, bad news. They're the people who fundamentally hate multicultural,

multi-class L.A. and want to revert it back to God knows when. Anyone who ever says, oh, it's not like how it used to be in the good old days, run from them. I love that. But that part. that populist anger is also apparent in the city council races too, right?

Like, I mean, it's not just all these right wingerers and Republicans who are, you know, pissed. Like, like, I read this in your blog. For the six DSA endorsed candidates are in first place right now in L.A. Is that that's correct? So the left is having a moment in L.A. too. Okay. So this is really interesting because, yes, again, natural media not paying attention. All they are, our Nimerid of Pratt saying, yes, there is.

conservative, not Republican necessarily, but even because one of the tropes you see like, oh, you know, this liberal hates Trump is just disgusted with Karen for, so he's going for Spencer. You have a populist right wing revolution brewing. And you also see that kind of with Steve Hilton, the Republican who is currently leading in the gubernatorial race. But they're not paying attention to what's going on because on the left side, you have the Democratic Socialists of America, the L.A. chapter.

They have been playing the Mamdami game. They're a couple years behind, but you're seeing it all, the fruits of their labor is happening. So six years ago, there were absolutely nobody seen as, you know, just a joke, like a leftist wakoso joke. And they're running a novice candidate named Nithia Rahman. She wins. And ever since then, they now have, along with ramen, four other, three other council members that they have been, they have put on the city council, Hugo Soto Martinez, Eunice, Hernandez, and Isabel Hurado. And so this year they endorsed officially five candidates.

And as you said, four of them are currently in first place. Another one is in second place. This is in District 9 in South L.A., which is historically, of course, black district. That one's going to be interesting because for the first time in 63 years, they're going to have a council member who is not black. And so the criticism against DSA, oh, you know, even though, you know, like all the candidates that they have in city council, they're all people of color, but they're like, oh, no. it's kind of like the same thing in New York.

It's just hipster white people, you know, armchair communists, blah, blah, blah. Like it doesn't really represent what Los Angeles is. Well, they're winning in South L.A. They've won in Boyle Heights, the historical heart of Latino Los Angeles. Marissa Roy, who's running for city attorney,

she's currently in first place on a citywide thing. So they have done a great job of capturing on the long term. Spencer is just grasping on to an operative, opportunity of a lifetime. And he's just running for himself. Like he does not represent any movement at all. There are not people running against them. They would not win on the city council race because still you have centrist Democrats who would

win and have been, you know, not my, you know, not my cup of tequila, but they are appealing to their voters. But DSA has been playing that long game. And so it's going to be, I don't know if they're going to win everything come general election, but people need to be paying attention to that. And if, I mean, it'll be interesting. I'm always, hey, if you're super left and super right, you all meet together on certain points. Think of the alliance is there to try to take down the current establishment. I doubt it will happen, but if Spencer is smart, he'd be paying attention and talking to these DSA folks.

We'll probably tell them to slag off. But hey, weirder things have happened, right? Well, okay, and I can't let you go without talking about the governor's race, which has been a mess. I mean, Eric Swalwell's campaign, which were people may remember derailed by allegations of sexual assault and harassment. He was out of the race in April. The Democrats couldn't seem to get it together. And now the top guy is Hilton, right? A Trump endorsed candidate. Is California at risk of becoming a red state?

If Hilton, Hilton is not an idiot. He is not an idiot. He is a smart guy. he's not smart enough though because what I'm going to give him the most credit for is that same thing with Los Angeles there people are upset they're just cost of living too much all this crap we haven't even talked about the ice raids that have have been the story and we're approaching the one year anniversary of that and so Hilton has been traveling the state going to Latino majority communities and specifically for them saying hey I know you're paying too much gas I know California has been passing all this progressive craziness like trying to ban the combustible engine. I did a column a couple years ago. California the, um, what do you call it?

California air that's SQAMD. Whoever's in charge of the air quality in California as a whole, they want to ban croming, which I'm like, who's going to suffer from the banning of croming? All these working class black and brown men who are croming, they're fucking low

riders. Like I had a 74 Eldorado. What? Like, if I want to chrome my bumper, I, like, And this is where the environmentalists get mad at me, but it's like, look, this is not a trivial thing. A lot of these things are affecting working class people. So Hilton, I give Hilton credit for that. He knows he needs Latinos to win. But the problem with him is that he's still too enamored of Trump of MAGA.

So now he's going around saying, I'm the candidate of legal immigrants. Give me a fucking break. I'm actually going to go on, I'm going to, and I challenged him to do this and he has accepted and like it's going to happen. I just don't know when. But we're going to go eat tacos with my dad who came to this country in the trunk of a Chevy, who was a truck driver for 30-some years. You'll remember how the Trump administration wants to basically make it so that immigrant truck drivers know how to speak English fluently according to them.

My dad, like, he did it. So I want Hilton to sell himself to this guy who already has two strikes against the Hilton playbook. And so that's where I think Hilton cannot win. unless he changes, which I don't think he will. And then we're saying all of this, of course, forgetting or not mentioning just yet that California is a deep blue state. And it seems like the second place finisher going into the general election is Javier Becera, who is a known name in California politics.

Yes, boring. I've called him the Chicano Stewart Smalley because that's how he comes off across. But hey, the guy knows how to win because here he is right now. I'm sorry. Gustavo, my man. We're going to have to have you back on. I'm going to be paying attention to the getting tacos with Hilton, but we also have to have you back on as Election Day draws near it

because this is fascinating. So thanks so much for coming on, which, bro, really, we're so glad to finally get you on. Thanks for having me and any time. It's Joel Anderson. Production Magic by my god, Tucker Tashin. Next week, Brian will be back from his week-long Scandinavian adventure, and we're going to demand some stories. I assume he stopped at a.

half-priced bookstore there or something. I'm sure he had some sort of weird fish. We're going to hear about it, and I'm going to make him talk about it because I'll be there on Tuesday. And we're also going to have a special guest on the press box. MS. Now's Michael Steele, co-anchor of the Weeknight,

former lieutenant governor of my state, Maryland, and the former chair of the Republican National Committee should be a fun conversation. And then it'll be Brian and Dave on Thursday. You guys think Barry White's and CBO? will come up again between now and then, huh? Probably. Anyway, see you Tuesday with more lukewarm takes.

Have a great weekend. Stay out of trouble.